Club Shay Shay - Club 520 - Gary Payton on Michael Jordan RIVALRY, Sonics, Mavericks' NBA Draft lottery

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

We’re back with Season 3, Episode 61 of Club 520, and Jeff Teague and the guys are joined by Gary Payton, where he talks about playing against Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals as a member of the Seattle Supersonics, the Dallas Mavericks winning the NBA lottery to draft Cooper Flagg, having his own signature shoe, playing alongside Shawn Kemp, and much more! Timeline  0:00 - Start 3:00 - GP signature shoe 17:00 - Defense 22:00 - Best Oakland PGs #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to absolute season one, Taser incorporated on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the world on drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war this year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports

This is kind of star-studded a little bit man We met them at their homes met them at the recording studios stories matter and it brings a face to it makes it real It really does it makes it real Listen to new episodes of the war on drugs podcast season 2 on the I heart, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. The volume. Man, y'all ever go get a new phone and be like, man, this is a good promo. And then a couple months later, surprise, your bill is totally different. But with Boost Mobile, man, it's $25 for everything.

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Big Three, we got a special guest. We gonna introduce him last, but to my far left, we got my dog, Bishop B. He heading out to Pearlies. How you was, Nasty? Was heading, Nasty. We gonna introduce him last, but to my far left, we got my dog, Bishop B, he in out the Pearleys. How you doing, Nasdy? What's happening, Nasdy? Excited for this one, man. We definitely got a legend.

I don't be saying legend a lot, but this is one for sure in the city for sure. Real legend. Now, we gonna talk about the shoe game later in the episode, OG, but you know what I'm saying? We know you keep the feats right, Nike man for sure. Black Air Force One, have you ever seen those before? I have, I got a couple pair.

Have you ever seen those with the white laces? Cause that's his thing, he wear the black forces with the white laces. I don't fuck with that though. I ain't fuck with that. But it's all good man, you can do that though. You know what I'm saying? I'm going all black laces man, you gotta go all black out man.

You gotta black that out like it's tint out man. You know what I'm saying? You see how you got that white trim and that shirt. That Coach's shirt. But it'll work, it'll work. That fit a bus. I mean, if you get a fit with the black pants with the black with white stripe on the run,

you'll be cold in a month. You feel me? You feel me? Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna get him bright. What color socks you gonna go with? We gonna do black. We gonna do black with the white.

Get it. Yeah, we don't want the two bus. Get it. That's the plan. Get it. Get it. Yes sir, we gonna tap out manager, make sure we get GP the get it. Get it. Get it. Yes sir, we gonna tap your manager, make sure we get GP to black up the right way.

What's up? To my right, my dog, young Nacho, yo T, how you doing? I'm chilling bro, we got a legend in the building like B. Hen said, this should be a good episode. Come on man, we wait for this episode. We talk a lot of shit, we talk a lot of shit, it's gonna be a good one. Yes sir.

What shit talk we gonna do? All of the above man. Listen man, we got a special guest in the building man. One of the best to ever do it. Hall of the above, man. Listen, man, we got a special guest in the building, man. One of the best to ever do it. Hall of Fame, one of the coldest, man. You know what it is, the glove, GP in the building. Big dog, we appreciate you sliding on us, man. Appreciate y'all, man.

Y'all all night fusing with me, man. You know I'm the OG, man, but it's all good. I love boy, all y'all, man. It's all good. You know what I'm saying? I like what y'all doing, man, because we gotta get our black presence out here with all these avenues that we're doing with these shows,

man, we gotta be the ones that make people understand that we can do other things and play sports and all that other stuff, man. We can be out on this social media and do it, and y'all do it the right way. Give a message out to this stuff, man, and let's do it, man, you know what I'm saying? That's why I'm on here, man,

because I want everybody to understand, man, we ain't just out here to be killing and all this crazy stuff, but we out here for some positive stuff. For sure. For sure. Definitely, man, listen, now this show, we love, you know what I'm saying, keep the feets right.

You got some of the coldest shoes, basketball, history, effects. I don't wanna skip around, but what's that moment like when GP finds out he getting his own signature shoe? You know what, that's crazy, man. That just mean you know you're doing work. You know you're doing work when a company

like Nike could come and say, look here, man, we don't want you just to be in a shoe, we want you to have your shoe. And when they came at me and talked about the glove, man, and all that other stuff, and then they said they want me to be a part of making the shoe, you know what I'm saying? Usually they just give you a shoe and say,

yo, this is it. They wanted me to be a part of the shoe and make it me. When I'm did the zipper on that thing, that's the glove. That's what you zip up and on your hand, and it fit like a glove, You know what I'm saying? So when they did that and they start giving me that opportunity, it was a big thing for me. But you gotta understand, we gotta represent them shoes too.

You gotta get out there and play that game the way it is. And I think they thought that, they knew that I played that game that way. So they gave me my own signature shoe. But what was a good thing about it is that the shoe stuck and everybody loved it. You know what I'm saying? And I had to always think about it.

What's gonna make these people keep doing the shoe? Y'all don't get it, the women love the shoe more because they can throw them down and go down with the monkey paw when I had all the different colors in it. So the women was rocking them real tough, even with the men, but it was just great to have a shoot. You just gotta be blessed to have a shoot.

You know what I'm saying? Jordan, you can go with that. Pippen could come with it. Penny Hardaway could come with it. Ken Griffey, but it ain't too many Bo Jackson. Ain't too many people that got shoes, man, and do they thang, you know, LeBron and all them dudes, and in a different era.

But in my era, them dudes were dudes that we had shoes and we was pretty cold at it. Yeah, and to see us there at the test of time is a dope part. Because I remember my brother coming home, I had a brother's teeth, he was older than me, came home with him, and we was on zipline joints, you know what I'm saying, you see the red joints

on the side, it's like, I gotta had him. Yeah. That was the kicker though. Yeah. I played in them in Minnesota. For real? Yeah, I played in them in Minnesota. Did you zip them down? I warmed up with them down and I zipped them up.

Yeah, I seen Jeff going up on there, man. It was a pleasure to see some of the younger guys that come after me to wear my shoes, you know what I'm saying? And it'd be cool. When I seen you wearing them, I was like, shit, you know what I'm saying? And it'd be cool. When I seen you wearing them, I was like, shit, you're young guys, just fuck it with me. You know what I'm saying? And they got amped.

A lot of people get air with my shoe, man, and it's cool, and I appreciate that, man. It's always, I always look up to the OGs too. And when you look up to the OGs and show respect like that, it makes us feel good. You know what I'm saying? And then we treated the other different way with the youngsters.

And like I said, if it wasn't for Jeff, I wouldn't be on here, you know what I'm saying? I don't really get down with too many podcasts. I just get down with the people I love. And it's all good for that. I appreciate that. Just to counter off that, you have any time you see somebody with shoes like,

hey, take them shoes off, nigga. You can't wear my shoes like that to put some work in. When they're giving that to Just to counter off that, you have any time you see somebody with shoes like, hey, take them shoes off, nigga. Like, you can't wear my shoes like that to put some work in. Well, when they giving that to money to me, I ain't tripping them up, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, they can do it, man, you know what I'm saying? They ain't paying for them. I don't feel good. But you think about it, you be like,

nigga, you really can't get out of my shit, you know what I'm saying? But it's cool though, you know? But it just shows homage to me. You know what I'm saying? Even when I went into the cannabis business and everybody smoking my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my friends, you know what I'm saying?

I can't say, you know, don't smoke it. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I can't say that. I can't say don't smoke it, man. You know what I'm saying? But it's good, man. And you look at some dudes, I be like, dude, you in my shoe, you ain't really getting it like man, you know what I'm saying? But it's good, man. And you look at some dudes, they'll be like,

dude, you in my shoe, you ain't really getting it like that. You know what I'm saying? But it is cool though, man, because they paying homage to me, man. And don't nobody ever grow up talking about, man, they gonna have a shoe, man, and everybody wearing their thing, man. I came out of Oakland, California, man, in the hood,

and I didn't never think that I was gonna be who I am. You know what I'm saying? So it just, I just respect everything that people give and they respect me and it's good, man. I just think that a lot of people look up to me the way they look up to me. You know what I'm saying? Cause like you said, people used to come to me

and be like, man, I had your shoe when I was there. I had my mama take my last money, man. That was my Christmas gift. I'd be like, man, God, is that real? But it's a good feeling for me that I touch people's lives like that. You know what I'm saying? And that's great for me to hear that and see that.

Most definitely, and especially in our community, like the sneaker thing, especially our group and stuff like that, no matter what you had going on, it's a special moment. Even though it's just a shoe you just keep wearing to keep your feet safe, it idolized a moment for you. So just would like to be iconic moment in people's lives. That's dope as hell, man.

And you know what I'ma do for y'all, man? Y'all gonna give me your sizes, man. And I'ma send y'all some of them gloves, man. They gonna be coming back out about another year, man. I'ma send y'all the black joints. Yes, sir. The black joints, man. I'm gonna send y'all the black joints. You know what I'm saying? That's all right. The black joints, man. We appreciate it.

The real black joints. The real black joints, man. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna say y'all, I'm gonna gift y'all, man. And thanks, man. You know, I got a lot of them here, man. With the Miami Heat ones is here, man. They're my house here, man.

So I got them, man. So I'm gonna gift y'all that, man. Y'all get in with them, man. It's all good, man. We gonna do that. It's a big y'all that man. Y'all get down with them man, it's all good. It's a big thing man. And we're gonna get off to, sorry, obviously this is GP in the building. How it is like to, you know, you had an own shoe

and then you had the Jordan, like PEs in Jordan. Now to see them re-release, you know what I'm saying? Like you had that flavor back then. What's that like to see the like, in every avenue of the shoe, you still just killing it? Let me tell you, so y'all know I get at, me and Jordan was, we collide here. You know what I'm saying?

We get at it, right? So during that time, man, it was one of them things, man, I wanted to change some stuff that I was doing. I just got traded from the Seattle Supersonics. A lot of things was going in my mind, man. I wanted to change my life. So Nike came at me, man, and Jordan came at me, and they came at me and Jay Kidd.

They wanted to do an Oakland thing. They wanted both of us to get in that thing. I didn't really want to change shoes, but I said, man, let me try it, man. Let me see how much funk I can get in. And it's Jordan, because he was getting big, really, really big at this time in his shoe game. And so when they came, I told them, man,

the only way I'm gonna wear them is they gotta give me some funk. And they gave me some funk, man. When I went to the Lakers and the Bulls, they gave me some funk. They gave me some funk, man. I had some shit. They're the only 12s I like.

Oh, here we go, white ones. Yeah. That was hard. That was hard. Yeah, that was hard. And they was giving me some wave colors that was dope. You know what I'm saying? So I said, let's do it.

And we did it and I stayed for two years. Then I went back when I went to Miami. Went back to my thing and won a championship in my things. You know what I'm saying? So it was cool. That was hard. Man, I wanna ask you, cause we've been seeing you around, you know what I'm saying?

You always around basketball, which is super dope. What's that feeling like to see your kid like, you know what I'm saying, You always around basketball, which is super dope. What's that feeling like to see your kid, like, you know what I'm saying, have a great career in the NBA? You know what, I criticized my son so much, man. I just told him it wasn't gonna be nothing, and he proved me wrong, like what my daddy did to me. Now what's so good about this is I can be a dad. At the first time, I was thinking about myself.

I play, and I want him to play that way. Y'all gotta understand, man, it's only one Gary Payton and that's me. And I just named my son after him, that's it. So I told my son, I said, look here, man, I know you mad at me. We got into a situation where our relationship wasn't really, really cool because of that.

And I just told him, look, when he made a decision to go to Oregon State behind me, that was a big deal for me, for him, because I really didn't think he was gonna do that. You know what I'm saying? So I tell him all the time, I said, man, look here, don't never think you gotta be like me. It ain't gonna work that way.

I said, if you wanna be like, be anything with me, just get your picture up beside of me and let us be two legends together. That's hard. Put your picture aside of me. When I got my number retired at Oregon State, which he's gonna get his retired at Oregon State, just put your picture up next to mine.

And then we ain't gotta say nothing. We can just say we two legends. You know what I'm saying? So don't ever compare yourself to me. You know, cause y'all understand, I don't really know if he my kid anyway, cause he got too much athleticism. I don't know, that motherfucker.

I think that's mail man, son. You know what I'm saying? That motherfucker be ducking on my fuckers. I'd be like, woo. I said, man, I'm a layup king, man. You talking to me. I ain't trying to do all that. But you know, he an athletic man.

But the best thing I like about my kid is that when people come up to me, they don't talk about basketball. They talk about how good of a person he is. How sweet he is and how good he is, man. That makes a dad feel better. Because I know I did what I did, I had to do as a parent, you know what I'm saying?

I know I wasn't around all the time, you guys, being at all the stuff he wanted me to be at because I was on his road, doing the things I was doing, and doing everything and other things, you know what I'm saying? But as I went home, I became a parent. So when I sit in them stands now, I look at myself as being a parent.

It's more fulfilling for me to see him like that, you know what I'm saying? Instead of a basketball player, and that's the greatest feeling to be a dad. Nah, for sure. He is a competitor to the defenses without effort. And I don't know if that trickle down from you because you're a great defender,

but he's one of those locked down defenders. Every time he subs in the game, you know he's going on the best player, he gonna compete. And it's been like that since Washington. When I seen him when he was on Washington, he played against someone. I'm like, man, don't play with the ball around him.

He gonna steal it. That's something that you put into his head, like, you gonna make it, you gotta play defense. Jeff, that is because he was around me so much. And I told him to be a two-way defender is very valuable to anybody. Listen, the NBA finals are almost here, and every play can lead up to the moment

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Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on everybody's business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chafkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives.

With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your

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I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the We're on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Yes sir, we are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

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And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcast. If you could go into a game and score 30 and then the guy scored 36, that's a wash. Yeah. The six points different. If you can go in a game and you score 30 and hold him to 20 or 16, you've won the game by 14 or 12 or 10. You feel what I'm saying?, you've won the game by 14 or 12, or 10, you feel what I'm saying? So you've done your job.

So what he did was with his long arms, he became that thing, but his mentality is that he don't have to score, he can just lock you down. What I like about him is, every time he get in the game, he always tell the person, let me guard the best person on here. And that's what I like about it. He guards always the best defender.

I hate this game now because them dudes try to shy away from guarding the best defender. When you know you're the best player, so y'all both battle it out, but it is what it is. But that's what I love about it. You always want to guard the best defender. And I think you say it because being here just brought it up. We talking about the playoffs, you know what I'm saying? Like, we don't get the main two players on the team,

even if they play the same position, we're not each other's number. I miss that shit, bro. I miss that too in my era, man, because you know me, if I'm playing as Jordan, I'm gonna guard Jordan. You feel what I'm saying? I'm guarding him.

If I gotta go, if it wasn't Magic with there, I'm gonna guard Magic. I don't care how big I was. I'm guarding that boy John Stockton, I'm guarding him. I'm guarding anybody, Tim Hardaway, I'm guarding him. Kevin Johnson, I'm gonna guard Magic, I don't care how big I was. I'm guarding that boy John Stockton, I'm guarding him. I'm guarding anybody, Tim Hardaway, I'm guarding him. Kevin Johnson. Kevin Johnson, I'm guarding him. I'm not shayin' away, I'm not strayin' away from them dudes.

I'm going at they hell. See? I want them to get at her, I wanna get at them, because I'm gonna tell you, if I get you down here, you gonna have a problem down there. Yeah. Because I'm gonna go at you in the offense again. So that's how I'm being.

You was good for a dub too. Yeah. You was good for 20 plus too. I'm always gonna get it to you, because I'm gonna get you on the block, and I'm gonna go at you in the offense again. So that's how I'm being. You was good for a dub too. You was good for 20 plus too. I'm always gonna get it to you because I'm gonna get you on the block and I'm gonna tear your head off. I'm gonna back you in, I'm gonna tear your dome off. You know what I'm saying?

I think you'll forget that about you. It's like barbecue chicken, like I said on the chat. You get it, if I get you on the block, man, I'm gonna kill you. You know what I'm saying? Like, did you post up in high school? I didn't. I was like, cause I don't know how you got applied.

Jeff, let me tell you how that went down, right? Two years in the NBA, I got drafted in 90, right? 89, 90, right? I was horrible for two years in Seattle. They wanted to trade me. Then they changed coaches and went to George Call and they brought in Tim Gurdridge, who came from here from Tark.

They told us that we don't work out with him in the summer and in summer league and we gotta go back to summer league. They're gonna trade us. So when he went, the first thing he did, he brought me in a suite just like this. And he had two TVs. He had one TV that had me playing as a Sonic for my two years and one TV having me playing

as Oregon State. He kicked the TV down for the son of the said, I don't get shit. I don't want you to play like that. You play like him. And next thing you know, I said, I'm there. I said, what do I have to do? He said, you just got to be at gym every day. Every day, I tell you when I went to the gym, he said,

I've noticed something about you. You're very big, you're very athletic, and you got both hands because I'm a lefty, but I'm an amadess. He said, I can go both ways. He said, I want you to post up, please. So he started putting me on the block, banging me, banging me, and I started working at my game.

I started working at the spin. And y'all know my spin was the coldest, one of the coldest spins in the thing. I started spinning on people and feeling people. And he was like, you're gonna be a beast. And then that's what had happened. It started pulsing on people. I started fading away.

I started doing jump, started going in the middle. I started kicking it out. And then he said, ain't nobody gonna be able to stop you. And then I had to start doing it all the time. Man, the dope part that you said is that happened after year two. We expect so many high drive picks to come in the league now from day one to be polished and produced. It takes time to get good in the ABA.

Take time. Everybody's not going to be good. You know what I'm saying? You come out because you got to understand everybody up here is good too. You know what I'm saying? You playing against college players. With college players, how many good college players you're going to play against? You're going to play against one or two every now and, how many good college players you gonna play against? You gonna play against one or two every now and then, and then you gonna play against them in the NCAA tournament.

That's it. So when you get to here, we in the same skill as you and we're probably even better than you. So now you gonna work against us all the time, so how you gonna do it? How you gonna be that way? And that's what it was, and then you know in my era, I was going against a lot of people.

A lot of dogs, man. They had people, had everything. The worst dog I ever played with and he was strong was Mitch Richmond. He changed my game because he got me away from being on the Sacramento star, putting him on me instead of point guards. And he was bigger and he used to pound me a lot.

So he made me a little bit different, and then he'd come down and score. See what I'm saying? So I was always taking the challenge to go play him, but he was wearing me down. So it was like, that's what I wanted to do, man. And I just wanted that challenge. Every day I wanted a challenge.

Who was your best point guard, man? John Stockton, by far. He was just a little bit more crafty. Everybody thought he was dirty, but he was just stupid. We just didn't know how to play. It took me six years of figuring him out. And then when I figured him out, when we beat him in the Western Conference Finals,

I figured him out. I figured out I can't keep doing the same thing I do with him and try to overmatch him. I gotta play the same way he played. And I gotta just, every time I pound him, he'll fall and take a charge. Then I started saying, no, I know he gonna hit, he gonna think I'm gonna hit him twice,

but I'm gonna hit him one time and I'm gonna step off and then he shoots a jumper in his face and do everything and then face him up and go around him. He couldn't deal with me that day. And then when I figured him out, it was a little bit different. And then, you know, like everybody know today, I idolize him a lot.

You know what I'm saying? He's like one of my best friends. And you know, and it was just, I really love playing against players like that. You know what I'm saying? Because it got me more of an IQ of the game. And I'm John Stock and Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Rod Strickland, Mookie Blaylock,

people like that, I wanted to play against them, you know what I'm saying? Because they gave me more game and made me more of a better basketball player. Nah, for sure, for sure. We gotta talk about Oakland. Like we said. My hood, the big Leo.

You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of talented point guards come out of Oakland. about Oakland, like we said. My hood, the big leotard. It's a lot of talented point guards come out of Oakland. Obviously y'all had a conversation recently on another podcast and y'all was talking about top guards in Oakland. We brung up Dame Lillard, Jason Kidd and you. And I went with Dame. That's my class, that's the guys I grew up playing against. I think Simba said.

Simba might've. He said J.Kid. He said J.Kid. Simba said J.Kid. He said J.Kid. Yeah, everybody else said you. Right. And I seen what you said.

Your response. I love for you to elaborate a little more on your response. It made sense to me. I get it, cause he the OG of the shit. But when you really start, cause obviously y'all, damn my God, you know, damn, that's our guy. But when you start breaking down, like, hold on. I averaged 20 points of symbols over there,

said like. Yeah, cause people forget how you score, bro. What you said, people forgot how I score. People think about my defense. Y'all gotta understand, man, I was scoring like for eight straight years, I was scoring over 20 points a game. Feel what I'm saying? And then I was getting down, locking down people,

and then averaging eight assists and three steals. Gotta understand that, that's the way the game goes. And people don't understand, I scored over like 21,000 points. People forget that. Yeah. They overscored, they overlooked that. But what I say is about my two youngsters, right? Jay I raised him, you know what I'm saying?

Y'all gotta understand, Jay didn't start scoring until the end of his years of his career, right? So if we break it down, Jay is a better passer than me. You feel what I'm saying? Defender he than me. You feel what I'm saying? Defender he's not, you know what I'm saying? Scorer he's not, but he's a great IQ guy. You know what I'm saying? Dame is my youngster, you know what I'm saying?

We can't put Dame in that situation right now because he's not fulfilled all his things that he's done. But he's made his mark on the NBA as they shoot and score and stuff. Dame is a little bit different to point guard than us. You know what I'm saying? Because his era came a little different. It's about scoring here now.

It's not about passing the ball, getting the other people into the game. Jason was a better rebounder than both of us. You feel what I'm saying? So it's a little bit different than what we do. Dame didn't steal the ball like we stole the ball. You feel what I'm saying? So it's a little different than what we're talking about.

Errors, it's an era thing. I get it. Everybody has the opinion about a lot of stuff, but I just say, where are they from? From Oakland, you feel what I'm saying? We breed that, and that's just the way we're different. I'm the OG, you know what I'm saying? And we breed that, and that's just the way we're different. I'm the OG, you know what I'm saying? So we did it a little different.

You guys didn't watch me as much, but you know who I am, you know what I'm saying? You all didn't watch me as much. You all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably,

you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, you all probably, We were older than them. We was, we understand. It'll be like that, but it was like. You talking about over wrong. Y'all era is like you say, I'm gonna say, I feel like that because I played. I played against him, right.

And I understand that. I always tell people it's about an era, what y'all did. That's why I don't like people to ask me about a goat. Because a goat ain't gonna work for me. Because y'all didn't play the same time as each other. So I can't tell you about a goat. You know what I'm saying? All of us was good.

You feel what I'm saying? So you just think about stats. That's why people go with a goat, they think about stats. They say, oh, he won this one, he won that one. But did he play against him? Did he get out on that, he be like that? No, he didn't.

And too many play against Larry Bird, one of the coldest little motherfuckers I ever seen. Come on, Indiana's finest. What you talking about? You know what I'm saying? So I'm just saying, man, you know, we didn't play against Will Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who couldn't stop Scott Hook

and Will Chamberlain. Everybody breaking Will Chamberlain's records. Yeah. Feel me? Yeah. They bringing all his records. And they go, well, he was in the 60s or whatever. Well, he was 22, 21, still was the same. You know what I'm saying? So we don't do goats here, man.

I don't, you know what I'm saying? I don't do goats. So, but the point guard thing in Oakland, them three was pretty good. We were, us three was pretty damn good. Y'all some of the best team guards that ever played basketball. And we, and two of us is in the Hall of Fame in Top 75. Dame is already on the Top 75. He's gonna be in the Hall of Fame.

We're doing a thing. You know, Dame might be, might score more points than both of us, but it is what it is, you know what I'm saying? And I think when they go to New York and say that stuff, about the point gods, you know, we got the point gods over here and in the Bay, and in the West.

Yeah, I don't think it's another, it's a trio like that. Yeah. LA? LA got some point gods, but all top 75s? Baron Davis. Baron, but I'm saying they all top 75s. But they're ready to play.

The two made the top 75, BD is my youngster. If he would have got hurt, he would have been colder. It would have been, you know what I'm saying? But if we'd all three, if we'd have played them three, it would have been a battle. Yes. You gotta understand though,

Paul Pierce is from Oakland, California too. He was born in Oakland, California, you know, in LA. So we got another top. Yeah, Paul. Yeah, Paul.. He was born in Oakland, California. He moved to LA. So we got another type of guy. Yeah, Paul. Yeah, Paul. What's that shirt of Paul? You know, Paul Pierce grew up around a corner from me. I grew up with one of his brother, him.

He moved from Oakland when he was 11. And we got like, yeah, actually my father. Why don't OG for that? Actually my father. Thank you, I can't wait to talk to Paul now. Paul Pierce is on my thing, yeah, I tell him. He ain't no LA boy? He don tell him. He ain't no LA boy. He ain't no LA boy, he grew up.

He's more than open. He grew up in LA. He's more than open, and that one is 11. So let me break it down with y'all. That's the way the game go, you feel what I'm saying? Yeah, game game. So yeah, so we got a lot of top 75s and all the famous. You know what I'm saying?

So you was an OG. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. Catch action packed, live events, and exclusive sports documentaries and profiles only on Vice TV.

Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow

through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle, this is the thing that's in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into it. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all.

So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional wellbeing, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chafkin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull, we'll take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English.

I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs Podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill.

NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouche. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does.

It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcast. Who like showed you the way coming up in Oakland? Like who put the ball in your hands? My daddy. You guys, my daddy coached everybody we talking about.

Everybody. Every one of these guys, y'all we talking about my daddy coach and touched hands on them. So they brought me into that. I really, I really idolized George Gervin, who is my stepdad now, like my step pops to now, but as coming up in the hood in Oakland,

my daddy was the one who put hands on me and touched me. You know, and he touched a lot of the, I mean coach Jay, you know, Dame came a little too later because he was in a later era, but he played against my daddy in my daddy's teams and stuff like that. But that was it, you know, you gotta understand. We had B Shaw, we had Antonio Davis,

we had Greg Foster. We had all them, Cliff Robinson. We had a lot of players. Y'all forgot, Bill Russell is from Oakland. Paul Silas is from Oakland. We done had a lot of basketball players. You know what I'm saying? You know the dope part about that is,

that's how his pops is. Coach T in the city, bro, everybody can do that system. Yeah, I heard about his dad a lot, man. He reminds me of my dad a lot. Your dad reminds me of my dad a lot. Coach everybody, man. Literally, he's coached everybody. Coached everybody.

Coached everybody. Coached everybody. Trained a nigga or something. Yeah. And my daddy did the same thing. So my, but you know, it wasn't just about basketball. My pops used to go around the schools and he'd see dudes shooting dice over there.

They used to say, oh, go, there go my daddy. There go Mr. Page White, White Escalade, or whatever, whatever. Man, let's. They're gonna wreck on Mr. Page's white escalator, whatever, whatever. Man, let's jump over the fence and get up out of here, man, because he gonna get at us, you know what I'm saying? My daddy put life in a lot of people, man. He taught them how to cook, he taught them how to do other things,

and that's what I thought about why I went into coaching now, why I coach the young guys now, because I want to make them men. Everybody ain't gonna make it in basketball or a profession. They gotta understand that their life is more than sports. Their life is everything, because they're gonna be a parent at one time too. Feel me?

You gotta raise somebody. And that's what I always tell them. And that's why I got into coaching, because I want to tell them that and understand that. You can't always be who you want to be, but you can be who you want to be in a different world, in a different aspect. You know what I'm saying?

You could be a lawyer, a doctor or whatever and make an impact on anybody's life. We ought to understand that. Yeah. And that's what's over T as well. Bigger about P coaches are arm and moderate. You know what I'm saying? So the impact you have on them kids,

not even from a basketball standpoint, just to show like, hey, you can be something in life or you can move, like you can have these morals and be successful on the avenues is very important. Because we don't got that much representation in our community. Absolutely. And that's what we gotta always be big on.

When my daddy gave it to me, I think God told him to pass it on to me and keep it going. You know what I'm saying? Because we gotta catch these young kids because this mental health stuff is really killing us right now. They don't know how to respond to people and say, yo, I know you're helping me, let me let you help me.

Let me tell you about my situation because I can get a lot of these kids out of their situations and get them into some health programs and do the things that they have to do. But you have to give them some support. Because none of them really grew up like that. They only grew up with a mama. Me and Jeff grew up with a daddy.

See, our daddy was a big part of our life. Most people didn't grow up with a pops like that. So we gotta understand that. And most of my guys who I deal with didn't grow up with daddies like that. They grew up with mamas where they can go on the streets and do whatever they wanted to do any time in their life. And my daddy was there to take responsibilities for them.

So we have to understand that. So we gotta give them that support. Gotta give it to them. That's a fact. I definitely wanna ask you to, Sean Kent from our state, he's an Indiana, you know what I mean? Al Cork, Indiana?

Yeah, Indiana. Al Cork, Indiana. That's Indiana. Al Kort, Indiana. That's way through. Nah, for sure. I know all of us want to ask you, man, how was that playing with him, man? Like, that was crazy. That was a crazy duo on NBA Jams.

What? I call it. NBA Jams turned us out. Nah, real shit, real shit. Hey listen man, let me tell y'all about that. Everybody talk about this Live City, no disrespect to CP and them and all that. We was the first ones with Live City.

Me and Sean was the first ones to get it like that. You know what I'm saying? Playing with him for seven years was amazing. Me and him are partners now in the cannabis business and all that stuff now. I see Sean on a regular basis, man. And playing with him and becoming a friend with him is more important than that.

That's how a chemistry comes together. And that's how we did it. And people just don't understand. I think, and I always tell Sean this, I said if we wouldn't have got our ego messed up, and his ego messed up, if he would have stayed with me more years, he'd be a Hall of Fame by now.

You know what I'm saying? Because we'd have made a bigger dynasty than what we did. We were one of the two, one of the greatest duels to ever play with each other. And what I think, and I'm trying to get him in the Hall of Fame now for what he's done with me. You know what I'm saying? So I just think I had a blessing to play

with a person with that much talent. Because I can just throw the ball up to him and he will go get it anywhere. But people don't understand how good he was with the basketball and shooting in the mid-range game. And his back to the basket, he was a beast. You know what I'm saying? And so people didn't really understand that

about how much freak ability he had. You feel what I'm saying? He had a freak ability that nobody really, really knew that he had, but if you see it every time, y'all watch our highlights of all our games, he did some stuff that was so incredible to me, man. I used to be like, wow, you know, I'm playing with this guy, this dude.

We used to see them lobs you threw. Yeah, yeah, I used to, he used to always tell me, he used to always tell me, man, give me a challenge today, man. Throw that, throw it somewhere where I don't, you don't think I'm gonna go get it, and I'll just throw it up there and he'll go get it. Was that instant chemistry though?

It was. With him? It was. What happened was in 89, I was in college and he was just coming out, right? And Sonny's drafted him. And they wanted a point guard. And then Bernie Bickerstaff seen me and he said,

I think this is the kid that we gonna get. So he started telling Sean to watch me. And Sean started watching me and I said, I think this is a kid that we gonna get. So he started telling Sean to watch me. And Sean started watching me and I was in college. They hit me every now and then. And then they didn't have a chance to get me at all. You know what I'm saying? And then all of a sudden they fooled around and didn't make the playoffs and then got in the lottery.

And their balls was a chance of, well Dallas was this year, they get the Cooper Flags. Oh, shit. Their chances was 12% to get the number two pick or the number one pick. And they fooled around and got the number two pick. Wow.

Oh, so you had a script. Okay. And I knew I wasn't gonna go no lower than one or two. And New Jersey wanted me, but they wanted a point guard and a big man and Derek Coleman was coming out. And then Kenny Anish was gonna come out next year. So I went and told them, don't draft me. You can get Kenny the next year.

So I wanted to go to Seattle. So they drafted Derek Coleman. And then I went number two to Seattle. Yeah, so he was a part of the bullshit early. Yeah. That's right, that's right. That shit ain't real, bruh. There ain't no way Dallas get that pick.

It happens, man. They crucified my boy Niko, man. Man, because he traded Luca, man. But then all of a sudden, the bad luck wasn't even worse when they made all them injuries. Then all of a sudden, big bang bang, the lottery hit. Bingo long, I went into one of them old crazy liquor stores, and paid $10 and got a lottery.

What I do, I hit. I hit for that billion. Fill me and gut the boy. And gut that boy, boy. Man, listen, that's one of my favorite NBA moments, man. They show in their draft room, they say, yes, I'm like, they cheated, man. Ain't no way it's supposed to happen, bro.

Ain't no way it's supposed to happen, man. Bingo Long, I knew he was going to a white team. A team that was going to be losing., a team that was gonna be losing, and all of a sudden I said, man, you hit the lottery. You at the lottery and hit the lottery. Then those teams are at the bottom of the lottery. Their chances were zero. Oh yeah, I know, but it's not a fact.

You understand, it was at 0.8 for Dallas to get that pick. You understand me? They went to the finals last year. That wasn't supposed to happen. They was in the finals, they lost to Boston. You feel what I'm saying? Poor Utah Jazz. It is what it is, but you know what?

I feel for my boy, J. Kid, as a head coach, love it. And then I feel for Nico, man. Nico was my rapper at Nike. That's like a little brother to me, man. He always looked up to me like that. So I feel for him because what he took, you know what I'm saying? People don't understand. He's the president and general manager.

He can't make them calls on his own. No way. Our owner has to make that call. He can't just say, I'll make the call because he's going to get fired. So all you fans out there messing at him like that, get up out of here with that. It wasn't his call, man, to make that decision.

He made a decision on what he was told to do or what it was supposed to be done. And that's what they did. So I'm happy for him. What's gonna happen, you get Kyrie back after this injury, man, which he'll probably come back in January or something like that.

And they'll be rolling, they'll make a thing. AD come back where it is, get all the guys get healthy, because if they whole team get healthy, it's gonna be a beast. Dallas gonna be a beast. Oh, definitely. Speaking of the finals, we all watched the last dance. I wanna ask you on this show,

how did it feel knowing you going to the finals against Michael Jordan? In 96, that was great, man. You remember I got on cover of Sports Illustrated and said, mission impossible. I just won the defensive player of the year, first point guard to ever do it. And it was just something.

But people didn't know I got hurt. I tore my calf muscle and I really couldn't move. What I did was I went in there and they found a solution, they found a little miracle thing to do, it got my leg better. I wrapped it up a little bit and then all of a sudden, you know, it's a miracle, you know what I'm saying? So then I start playing and I start feeling better

and better and better. Then we got down too much and then I just started saying, let me guard him. And he was averaging 33 at the time and then I started making it a pest for him. I started making it a pest for him and then I broke it down to 23. And then what coaches do,

they knew I started becoming a problem. So they had to make, just solve the problem. What do you do? You solve the problem. So Jordan was taking it personal with me, which I wanted to happen. And then, you know, Phil Jackson said, nah, let me put somebody bigger on him

and distract him and make it a problem for him. And he put Pippen on me. And Pippen is a bigger player than me. He was six, seven. He could be, he's mobile. He was there and it was taking a toll on me. He took a real toll on me to try to score and guard Jordan at the same time and he took a toll on me.

And then by the time the sixth game came, we had broken down a 3-2, the sixth game came on, I got a little fatigued, you know what I'm saying? And they took us out, you know what I'm saying? It is what it is, it just took us out of the game. But it was just a good bump, like who fans to see that? Like that's a hell of a matchup. Like to hold your own against one of the players

that we called to go, like you said, that situation, that's just gotta be dope for you in that moment. It's just like, I'm here. You know what? It was easy for me because of my mindset. I thought it was always, I wanted to play against them all the time. Remember they were 72 and 10.

We were 64 and 18. Y'all forgot that. We were the number two team in the league at the time. And we beat them out of that 10. So it was like, I just wanted the competition. I just wanted to play the best. You know what I'm saying? I don't stray away from nobody, man.

When I would play, my don't stray away from nobody, man. When I played, my daddy always told me, man, if your leg ain't broken and it ain't off, get on the floor and get it. And that's what I did. I just went and got it. And he was always the one to take the competitive to me. I love it.

Yeah. Well, how did you respond when you see him laugh? Like, I know you and, you probably was laughing too. I laughed right there. I said it is, I wouldn't even, Jeff, I wouldn't even have respected him if he didn't say that. I wouldn't even have respected him

to say anything like that or less. Cause it's his documentary. Of course. I don't care, man. We all knew what the game was and how it was. Whoever, whatever, it's good. We knew what it was. Nah, listen man, OG, we are honored, man.

We appreciate you pulling up on us, man. It's been a pleasure. Listen man, we can't wait. You got some things in the works, man. We can't wait to see what that happens, man. We ain't gonna say too much, you know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. You know, I got it all getting it, man.

You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna get it, man. Anytime y'all want me on this 520 club, I'm with y'all, man. Do a club 520, man. Y'all doing a great job. I told y'all I respect y'all to the fullest, man. This is what I wanna see in young guys like y'all, man.

Get it, man. Do what y'all wanna do, man. And then always, man, set a mark for yourself, man. Always when you lead something, especially with you, Jeff, you play in the league. Do your thing, man. Keep doing this with your boys. Hook it up, man. Always when you lead something, especially with you, Jeff, you play in the league. Do your thing, man. Keep doing this with your boys. Hook it up, man, do it.

Anytime y'all need me, holla. That's how it is. Down to Pools Mobile Club 520, we out. We out. Appreciate it. The Volume. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them.

So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made For This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech

billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

Listen to Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is Season Two of the World on Drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war this year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. It's kind of started a little bit, man.

We met them at their homes, we met them at their recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.