Club Shay Shay - Club 520 - Jeff Teague & Shams Charania on LeBron to Warriors, Derrick Rose Bulls, Wembanyama

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

We’re back with Season 2, Episode 46 of Club 520 where Jeff Teague and the guys are joined by Shams Charania to discuss all things the NBA. The guys discuss Derrick Rose turning into a superstar with the Chicago Bulls, whether LeBron James would team up with Steph Curry on the Golden State Warriors, and the emergence of Victor Wembanyama on the San Antonio Spurs. The guys then debate the most athletic guards between Russell Westbrook, John Wall, Ja Morant, and much more! 00:00 - Introduction01:40 - Starting Club 520 Podcast03:40 - How Shams got started07:28 - Watching the Derrick Rose Bulls09:30 - Russ, John Wall, D-Rose14:00 - Jimmy Butler traded to Philly18:45 - Leaking draft picks20:00 - Haliburton for Sabonis trade24:20 - Chicago Bulls30:00 - Zion Williamson32:40 - Trae Young35:20 - Bucks37:00 - LeBron to Warriors?39:20 - Future of the NBA42:20 - Best Rookies #Club #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Volume. both on and off the court. Hennessy and Mitchell and us have come together for the ultimate drop, a limited edition collection to mark their shared love for basketball culture and to celebrate Hennessy's continued partnership with the league. The exclusive collection will have a limited drop

available for both in retail and online and will be featured on the Hennessy Arena Tour Making Stop Sends. San Francisco, Saturday, March 9th. Dallas, Sunday, March 17th.

Atlanta, Saturday, March 30th. Come see Club, March 17th, Atlanta. Saturday, March 30th. Come see Club 520 Podcast taped live in each city. For your next pregame, let's share a twist on a classic, the Hennessy Margarita. A squeeze of fresh lime juice. A bit of agave syrup. Top it off with some ice and a salsa rim. Mix it, shake it, pour. And enjoy the spirit of the NBA.

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The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America, and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules.

Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Can't get enough football? Look no further than the Good Morning Football podcast. podcasts. Can't get enough football? Look no further than the Good Morning Football podcast. Join me, Jamie Erdahl, alongside Peter Schrager, Kyle Brandt, and Akbar Bajabiamila for a daily breakdown of the league's biggest stories. Hey, you want to know the secret ingredient that makes Patrick Mahomes unstoppable? Or maybe which reality show best describes the Jets season? Look no further. We've got recaps, retweets, and reactions to all the wild moments you might have

missed both on and off the field. Make sure to listen to the Good Morning Football podcast Monday through Friday on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we back. Another episode of Club 520 podcast. I'm the host. My name is DJ Wells. Special guests in the building to my left. We're going to introduce my man's last, but to my far left, we got my dog, Bishop B. Not the Prillies. How you doing, man? Long weekend, Astin. We had a good time this weekend. But yeah, I appreciate y'all. And I'm here.

Thank God for another day above ground. That's like the people who send grand rising texts. That's what you just gave us on the podcast. Amen. To my right, my dog, young Nacho, young Teague. How you up, man? I'm good, man. Another special guest, another legend in the building.

A legend in the building. Every time I look at my phone, I get an alert. Back when I was playing, I used to be scared as hell. But now, man, it's all good stuff, man. So I'm so happy to have my guy in the building. I'm going to let you do the introduction. For sure. Look, if you watch basketball, if you watch sports, you know who this man stuff, man. So I'm so happy to have my guy in the building. I'm going to let you do the introduction. For sure. Look, if you watch basketball, if you watch sports,

you know who this man is. You know what I'm saying? He sets the timeline of Blaze, good and bad. He's always got the information we need, man. None other than the legendary NBA insider. Shams, appreciate you pulling the 520, big dog. How you doing, man? Appreciate you guys.

Appreciate you guys having me. Jeff, it's all love. It's you guys. Appreciate you guys having me. Jeff, it's all love. It's all love. Appreciate you guys having me on. You know, I covered Jeff as a player. Covered his teams. So to see him on the other side now doing his thing with the podcast, I know he's come on my show, Fane, to run it back as well.

I think Jeff's got a long, you know, long track here. Oh, man, appreciate that. Second act. So how is it crazy for you to have interviews with you Jeff's got a long, you know, long trek here. Oh, man, appreciate that. Second act. So how is it crazy for you to have interviews with you and barely talking now you see him on the podcast? You feel like you're mad you didn't get that content? I mean, Jeff saved himself for when it mattered most, and that's the second half, the second act of his career.

So I think he played it smart. He left a lot of people hanging on every word now because they didn't know any of these stories before. So now he's letting them go. And, you know, I've worked with a lot of former players, right? Chandler Parsons, Lou Williams. They do my Fando TV show now. Shouts to the gang.

Yeah, our show's great. And then Jeff's come on. We got Vince Carter on different times. I've done stuff with Iman Shepard, a bunch of guys. But what's crazy is they're all so different. They're all so unique. And they all have these different experiences that they can speak to. And I think Jeff is obviously one

of the ones, one of the main guys I think now that's able to speak eloquently and bring up past experiences and then tie it into what's going on now. I think that's one thing that people say a lot about is to me podcast me podcast but a lot of things our community appreciates is the nba podcast because we get to see a lot of background stories to a lot of different stuff you like you like i

think i know this i thought i know this and then you can hear somebody talk about it and that make you respect the performance or a situational reaction so much better. So, Jeff, my thing is, when did you, did you know late in your career, like, once I'm done playing, I know, I know I got a bunch of stories in the can right now. Nah, I always told these stories. This was like me every day. But this is just your boys. Yeah, we just, we always talk like this. And one day we was doing a podcast.

They did a podcast before me. I forgot what it was called. What was it called? That's an opinion. Oh, I'm just playing with you. R.I.P. I'm just me. I forgot what it was called. What was it called? That's an opinion. Oh, I'm just playing with you. R.I.P. I'm just joking. R.I.P.

No, but they had a podcast before. And I came on their show. And basically, they was like, yo, just tell us some stories. Like, what's the league like? And I was like, dang, that kind of work. And I wanted to be a part of their team. Beautiful. That was some Haydenette shit.

Yeah, it was funny. You still enjoy Def Bro either way. Oh, yeah. Thanks, man. Obviously, man, we know what you do now, but how did you get started? So, you know, growing up, I loved the NBA. Like, I loved playing basketball. Like, in my mind, in my dream, I would have loved to be where Jeff is at, right?

Playing basketball, playing the NBA. But obviously, that's a very, very scarce job position league. I mean, you guys are 400 of the best, 450 of the best to do it. It's such a scarce company, if you want to call it that. So once I got cut early in high school, sophomore year, I'm like, I'm not playing. I'm not playing on my team. I got to figure out what I'm going to do. And I remember my English teacher that year told me,

you should write for the school newspaper. You're a good writer. You have passion with basketball. So I just combined both of my passions. I started writing a lot, wrote for the school newspaper. From that, I was writing a Bulls blog because I grew up in Chicago. So I did a Bulls blog. And from there, went to Real GM.

I want to say junior, senior year of high school. This is all in high school. So sophomore year of high school. Then around junior, senior year, I started realgm.com. Where to me, like that was the pinnacle. Like Real GM and Hoop Sight, I would always be refreshing. Like I was obsessed with like news and behind the scenes stuff. Like I would always wonder like, are the Bulls going to get,

are we going to get like Jeff? You know, are we going to trade for Jeff? What are we doing? I remember one year at the trade deadline, they were rumored the Bulls to maybe get like TJ Ford. So I was like refreshing hoop side in real G. I'm like, are we going to get TJ Ford? Are we going to get TJ Ford?

I don't think we got TJ Ford. But point being, I was, that's what was, I was obsessed with that. And if a team was doing bad, I'm like, why is this team struggling? If a team's doing really well or a player's doing really well, I was obsessed with that and if a team was doing bad I'm like why is this team struggling if a team's doing really well or a player's doing really well I was always inquisitive I wanted to know why guys are playing well why teams aren't

playing well so I think like now I think about who I'm catering to the fan I feel like I was that fan growing up like I was that obsessed person like if I wasn't doing what I'm doing now I would still be obsessed with all this stuff anyway so now I'm just in a position where I can actually

try to get to the news first and you know quench my own thirst while also you know help you know serving the fans and the audience so yeah that's a long story short

after Real GM Yahoo Sports for three years and now I'm at the Athletic Stadium Vandal TV everywhere you know what's crazy real ones know about

realgm.com if you need any stat information I'm solving every basketball argument I'm not talking to you my guy knows my guy knows

real GM stop talking to me we pulling it up we getting straight to it ain't no back and forth about it now like you said you had a crazy journey but I ask you

you know what I'm saying you do this for a living what's the one story the one drop he was like damn I wish I got this 10 minutes earlier or damn I got this 2 minutes earlier I Or damn, I got this two minutes earlier.

I feel like that happens like every year. Like I could have pointed to two, two, three at the deadline, you know, at the deadline. But it's always about when you feel 100% comfortable. Like that's the fine line that, you know, I feel like I'm towing every day, right? Like you get so many different things thrown at you. I feel like I'm towing every day, right? Like you get so many different things thrown at you. Like around trade deadline week,

I probably had 500 different scenarios that I was thinking in my mind or I had written down in my notepad. And how many of those actually happened? I mean, Jeff knows. I mean, Jeff, you played in the league. Like when you're on a team, so many different things. It's all fluid day to day. And that's why when I was a fan growing up,

when I was growing up, I would hear players say, oh man, I'm taking it one day at a time. Oh, I'm just worried about today. I'm like, man, that's BS. But then now you see the league, you're around the league, and you're even in this field in general.

You're working in general. You could be doing whatever you're doing. You could be a, you know, my mom's a nurse. Shout out to my mom. She's a nurse. She's taking day to day. You know, we're all day to day. As far as our mentality,

things can change at any given moment. It's everything is always, you know, fluid. For sure. You said you grew up in Chicago. So I imagine you watched Derrick Rose, like MVP year. Yeah. You worked for, you did the, you know, content for the Bulls, basically.

What was that year like seeing D. Rose? So that was 2010-11. That was, I think, my junior year of high school. I mean, it was insane. I mean, I know you played against him. Yeah. Did you play with him, too? I played with him in Minnesota. I mean, I know you played against him. Did you play with him too? I played with him in Minnesota.

In many, yeah. But in Chicago, at that moment, like when you used to go around Chicago. He was that dude. And the crazy part is, you know, getting to know him just a little bit and interviewing him a few times, he's always stayed true to like who he is as a person.

Like he's never won, like he never was someone that was trying to push himself out there for attention and try to be for the lights. I think he always stayed true to the game. And then that year in general, I mean, that team, the way he carried them on a night-to-night

basis, I know people can debate statistically. I see it now. People are like, LeBron, he stole the MVP from LeBron. LeBron should win MVP. But if you get the number one seed out of nowhere the way he did it and he was carrying that team,

6-2, 6-3 point guard and to me, you gotta say he was the most athletic guy. Oh, easy. Him and Russ for sure.

Him and Russ have to be the most athletic guys at that position ever. And he dominated. He was dominating. Yeah, he was dominating. And his vision. That thing, John Wall? Hold on a minute. Not he dominated. He was dominating. Yeah, he was dominating. And his vision.

That thing, Jean-Paul. Hold on a minute. Not Jean-Paul. Jean-Marie. You got to put him up there, too. I want to, you got to probably have a little bit more of a, I guess we've seen it. Yeah. But, you know, I want to see more of it.

I want to see him in the playoffs. He got to go a little. Yeah. But D-Rose led that team to the conference finals. Yeah. I think they took a 1-0 series lead got to go. I want to, but D-Rose led that team to the conference finals. Yeah, yeah. I think they took a 1-0 series lead and I think they were up

in game two. Yeah. And I remember, you know, growing up, I'm like, yeah, if they win this,

you know, you're up 2-0 on the heat. You know, and the whole thing was he didn't, supposedly, you know,

he wanted to lead the team himself with Luol Deng, Joe Kimno, and those guys. So, I think with him, it's always been about, he wants to lead the team himself with Luol Dain, Joe Kimno, and those guys. So I think with him, it's always been about he's always stayed true to himself. And just that season, I mean, you got to say he dominated. He dominated everywhere. No, he definitely did.

That was interesting when you say John Morant because he is up there in that list. But I think a lot of people forget, like, how athletic Russell Westbrook was and his prom was a very long time I know the last couple years the Lakers stuff we kind of see Russell a little bit older but okay see Russ and his prom yeah there was nobody

as physical as big as he was and he was power dunking yeah he was power dunking D Rose was too but D Rose sometimes he would dunk in positions and like angles that you wouldn't even expect him to get to. Russ was just brute force. Like, I put it like this.

Russ was like a hellcat. He had straight power. And D-Rose was like a Ferrari. They both got beautiful engines, both fast, both can move. I got to put John Wall up there too, bro. When you said John Wall, it made me think early John Wall. He was like that. He just wasn't on TV enough.

He was fast as hell, though. You would have to say he was probably, maybe was he faster than all those other guys? Nah. No? They all was like the same speed. Oh, same speed. Like John Wall,

the fastest player I ever played was De'Aaron Fox. Yeah, I could see that. He fast. That's crazy. I told you, he retired me. He too damn Fox. Yeah, I can see that. He fast. That's crazy. I told you, he retired me. He too damn fast. Yeah. But, like, Russell Westbrook, he fast as shit.

But he had so much power. But, like, D. Rose was that fast, but he could move. Fast, fast, and quick. Yeah. You played against all of them in their prime. Yeah. Who do you think was the toughest? Toughest to guard was D. Rose.

Russell was just relentless. Like, he'd be like, all right, man. Like, fuck. Like, he's a dog. You know he's going to kill. But he would shoot 40 of them and not think one second. Like, D-Rose was like, I'm going to kill you when I need to kill you. I get everybody else involved.

And then his points, like, hurt. Yeah. Russ was like, I'm going to get 70. If I can get 70, I'm getting 70. I don't care if KD on the wing. I don't care if he here. I'll shoot this motherfucker every time. That was him.

The thing about D-Rose that year, too, his middie was on point. There was a stretch a couple years where his middie was elite. And Russ, too. I think Russ had a stretch in OKC. Oh, yeah. His middie was tough. That hash pull- up was crazy. I'm guard up with a hard stop.

And I think that's what separated those two guys from the pack. I think those years when you have the mid-range shot going like that, when you can get to the basket as easily as those two guys could. And D-Rose floater. That floater was crazy. Yeah, that floater was tough. You think D-Rose floater fucking with Tony Parker? Tony Parker's the best guard finisher in NBA history.

He never missed layups. If you go watch, he never missed layups. I didn't want to cut you off. Over Kyrie? Bro, go look at Tony Parker. One of you here, he was shooting 60% in the paint. As a guard, it's crazy. You know, Kyrie is my favorite player of all time.

I think what makes it different with TP is because, You know, Kyrie is my favorite player of all time. I think what makes it different with TP is because, you know, Kyrie is finishing around the rim. Tony was hitting them like 14-foot floaters, bro,

off half spins. That's a tough shot. That's why I mentioned it. Tony Parker couldn't shoot. Well, I'm like, eventually he grew

to have a jumper. Kyrie can shoot. So him getting to the basket is a little easier because you got to respect his three ball. He got a total middie.

You back up off Tony Parker. And he was still hitting that. He's still getting to the basket making layups. Man, do you guys remember the finals in San Antonio where he had that crazy layup that like no business. You have no one probably in NBA history could make the layup that he made.

No, for sure. He never missed layups. delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claibon, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away?

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I got a question, though. Since you've been doing this at a high level, what's your like favorite trade so far? Favorite trade? She was like, damn, that team really won. And I'm a piggyback on that too. Where you, where you got to school, where you broke it. Man, that's tough. My bad. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. Nah, yeah. You could just say it randomly. There's a lot. I mean, it's just being in the middle of like, I'll give you an example. Like when Minnie traded Jimmy to Philly.

That was nuts. And I remember, I think you guys were in Sacramento. Where we was at? You guys were in Sac, and I believe you guys obviously lost that game not cause of you not cause of me that's crazy let Minnesota tell you

let Minnesota tell you it was me it definitely was you the problems were way deeper than just JT let's be real let's just blame him anyway but I remember I remember I was, I'll say this story. So I live in the suburbs of Chicago, right? I've never moved to the city.

But I was looking at an apartment in the city. And we were going through the tour of the apartment. And I get a text saying, Jimmy is about to get traded to Philadelphia. It's close. And I think you guys have just lost the night before in SAC. And this is what lets you know that you could be anywhere, any given moment. So I'm on this apartment tour.

I look down at my phone, and I left. I left the tour. I never went back. I never bought that apartment. It's just bad omen. You get used, have to leave the tour. I never went back. I never bought that apartment. Just bad omen. You get used, have to leave the tour, you can't go back. So I remember I left that and then you see the whole terms. And I feel like that's also a major what if around the NBA.

You have to say. Because that team in Philly, I mean, they had Ben, they had Jimmy, they had Embiid, Tobias, Jimmy, and then later in the year they traded for Tobias. Yeah. So their group, man. And JJ was there too, wasn't he? Yeah. Coming off the bench. Yeah, they had a whip. TJ McConnell, coming off the bench. Mm-hmm. Coming off the bench.

TJ Nash. My favorite Pacer. Lord Jesus. But, you know, I don't, maybe it's just because I think of Jeff. You know, that's the only one that comes to my mind. No, I remember we was on the plane when it happened. And Jimmy, we all on the plane. So imagine getting traded. Jimmy was on the plane too. Yeah, imagine getting traded while you're on the plane.

But we in. Back to Minnesota. You guys were back to Minnesota? Yeah, back to Minnesota. So we got like a three-hour flight. Yeah. And they tell you at the beginning of the flight. So we all on the plane like, dang. You we got like a three-hour flight. Yeah. And they tell you at the beginning of the flight, so we all on the plane like,

dang, you know I'm a jerk. So I'm like, who you trade for? And they like, we got Robert Covington and Dario. I said, what the fuck?

Y'all traded Jimmy for him? Like, no disrespect to Dario and Rob. I like y'all. But I was like, man, y'all playing. Two great pros,

by the way. Two great pros. Wonderful guys. Two wonderful pros. Wonderful guys. Professional players. Two wonderful guys. I love both of them. Jimmy Butler. I mean, that's...

Come on, bro. What we doing, bro? I know that's your guy, though. Yeah, but I'm like, y'all sabotaging me, bro. Minnesota already hate me. We're taking with T. I'm gonna trade our best player, bro. Take it with T.

Yeah. Take it with T. The real double teeth. Look, I'm like, I'm like, y'all can tell what y'all traded them for. All the people we could have traded you for. Nah, facts.

You could have got a legit star for Jimmy Fallon. That's crazy. So that's what I think about when I think about like, I think about where I am. You know, like, if I have to leave a situation, if I'm like on a family trip in the summer,

like there have been times, I mean, I'll be like, if I'm like on a family trip in the summer, like there have been times, I mean, I'll be like, my family will take like a quick trip to like the Grand Canyon or something in August. You know, August and September are usually the times when you play in the league where you try to get away right before Labor Day or into Labor Day. And I remember once I was at the Grand Canyon

and I get a text, you know, that John Wall, he was going to sign an extension or something with Washington. Major extension. I mean, I left. There was like a library. You know, you know, you don't know those mountains. They don't have any connection. You have to go to the library with spotty Wi-Fi connections.

I remember I left. I went to this library, to a little shuttle, 15-minute shuttle. Went there. That's my dedication. You know, you guys have to be in the lab. Went there. That's my dedication. You know, you guys have to be in the lab. I have to be in my lab. God, watch you though, Shams.

You a little sneaky, bro. Yeah, you be dropping them bombs at like 1 a.m. Wake up, what the fuck? I would have had to miss that one. I got John Wall in the morning, man. We know he's staying in Washington.

I'll give you a sleep one. So remember when Kawhi Leonard got traded to Toronto? Oh, that's a good one. That broke it like 2, 3 in the morning. The crazy part is it was like 1.30 in the morning. I was done on my couch. I think I woke up like maybe around 2 and I saw my phone. And it was about the trade.

And I look on Twitter. It wasn't out. I was stunned. I was stunned. You know, 30 minutes is out. I was stunned. I was stunned. You know, 30 minutes is eternity. I'm like, I could have missed it.

I could have been, you know, so you never know where you are. So that's the thing that comes out to me is like, you name a trade, you know,

hopefully I've broken, you know, if I've been on it, I usually know where I am, you know, when it happens. Especially if there's a good story behind it.

Now I got to ask you this question. How do you feel about people complaining about, and they kind of like tapered it off this last year about the draft announcements? When I was like don't tweet before the pick actually shows I'm just like, you know, that's their job, right? Yeah, I mean for sure for sure like if I have information if I have the ability to get to information I'm gonna do what I can also I have a live show as well that I'm doing on my own that streams on Twitter that, you know, it's updating live.

Like we, like on Stadium, we do live updates of, you know, so we're basing off whatever I'm tweeting. Not really what's on air per se or what's going on at Barclays. So all I can do, all I do is focus on on the information I get. You know, it's like we're having we're kind of the ones to tell the draft. I wish I would have did that when I was coming out. Because I, I was at home sweating. I wish I would have got a tweet like, yeah, they picking you next. I would have been a lot easier for me because, man, I was going through it

on my draft night, but I wanted, I was going through it on my draft night. But I was going to talk about the trade that I think was the most equal trade ever. It was the Tyrese Halliburton and DeMontis Sabonis. Yeah.

I think that was like perfect for both teams. I don't think it's ever been a trade as equal, I would say. Like when I think about it, they both got two superstars, I would say. All- when I think about it, like, they both got two superstars,

I would say. All-star superstars, whatever. Pacers needed Tyrese and the Kings needed him. I think that might be the most even trade in NBA history.

I, man, that's, I agree. It's definitely up there, but shout-outs to the Sacramento Kings for giving us Tyrese Halliburton. I still appreciate y'all. Y'all are near and dear

to my heart for giving us a franchise point guard because we did not have one. Both teams won with it. For sure. The Kings need, I think the Kings need a big man. For sure. So De'Aaron could just be the guy. I think anytime you have a player's talent as Tyrese,

you kind of have to decide, like, are we going to give the keys to De'Aaron? Are we going to give the keys to Tyrese? They went all in with De'Aaron. And then you get an all-star big. I mean, Sabonis' numbers this year are crazy. He probably, he should have been an all-star somehow, some way. Yeah. You got Rob, bro.

Both of them. Fox should have been one. I mean, Sacramento, is that a bad market? Whereas, obviously, it's a small market. People not seeing them enough. It's kind of like the Trey Young effect where you're not watching them enough to really see that these numbers are actually like them getting buckets, not just numbers.

I think possibly that, but I mean, there have been times this year where they've struggled too, like over the course of the year. I mean, I think record-wise, they're right on pace this last season. I think there's,

you expected them maybe to take another step, but they've also had injuries. Deep Fox missed a little bit of time. Yeah, I think the struggles help as far as that, but I mean, Simone's numbers are nuts. And De'. Yeah, I think the struggles help as far as that. But, I mean, Sabonis' numbers are nuts. And De'Aaron, I know De'Aaron's gone through a little bit of struggles as well the last 15 games.

I'm not worried about him come playoff time. We saw him last year, the performances he had on the fractured finger or whatever. Like, he's a beast. But, no, I mean, Sacramento, I went there actually for game one against the Warriors, their first playoff game in whatever, 17 years. That place. That might have been the best environment of a non-finals game I've ever been to.

Damn. Yeah. As far as how rowdy that crowd was, how much anticipation there was, how hype everyone was going in. And the arena's beautiful. So I think Sacramento's building, do they need a third piece, though? Yes. Who, though? Who would you see

in Sacramento? They went after Pascal Siakam. They went after Oji Ananobi. They missed on both. Do you try to go get Kyle Kuzma in the summer? Who would you try to get if you're SAC? I don't think Kyle put them over the hip, because I think Keegan Murray can develop to be as a contributor as Kyle would be

for that team. Keegan Murray is nice. And he's like, he looks like he's soft-spoken. Like, you gotta, sometimes the coach might have to push him a little bit to...

Yeah. I don't know what they need. They could use a wing, but you gotta get rid of a couple pieces. Well, you get, well, Harrison's coming off the books soon, I think.

He's got two years after this year. Oh, never mind. Sorry, yeah, they're gonna have to make a trade there. You gotta get rid of him. pieces. Well, Harrison's coming off the books soon, I think. He's got two years after this. Oh, never mind. Sorry. Yeah, they're going to have to make a trade there. You got to get rid of him. I'm trying to think who they could get. That's the one position. That's even for the Pacers. That Elite 3 is the final piece in every real big three situation in the league

because you got a lot of elite point guards. If you're lucky to have a good bid, you got to have that elite wing to compete. I used to want them to have a good bid, you got to have that elite wing to compete. I used to want them to have Zach Levine, but I just don't think Zach. I don't know. I just feel like, man, they could. Zach needs to get healthy.

That's the biggest thing, man. That's a good call, though, bro. Hopefully he can get healthy next season. Next season, obviously, got to be a bounce back here. And Lonzo Ball, know make him make him progress let's see if he can come back I think I think Lonzo Ball

is very much hoping and aiming to come back next season I hope he plays I'm sure he does man that's one of the few guys

like we love like he's one of the areas that we saw like LaMelo like Lonzo was always cold he went through some scrutiny with the Lakers you know how that goes

but he's one of the people like we wanna see Lonzo because he played the right way he's cool I got some I mean I know how that goes. But he's one of the people like, we want to see Lonzo Hoop. Because he played the right way. He's cool. I got some, I mean, I'll say some news on it. I mean, he's back on the court. That's what's up, man. Not to, you know, it takes a while to really ramp up.

But he's doing some spot shooting, a little bit of light jogging, light walking, light running. But that's not stuff that he was clear to do, ready to do on his last couple. Yeah. You know, he would start and stop. He would get going and then he would get pain again. But now he's able to at least get to the point where he's on the court. You're doing a little bit of jogging, a little bit of moving around.

And he wasn't there a year ago. He couldn't physically. So now he's back to that point. He was going to take off like Brandon Ingram, I think, if he didn't have those injuries. Yeah. What about like Chicago, speaking of the Bulls, what do you think they do with DeMar?

You think they're going to extend him? Man, that's a, I think they've discussed an extension. I think now, the thing with the Bulls is being competitive is important to that organization, to that franchise. And you have to say, since they went all in with kobe white since zach lavine's been hurt i mean i think they're once a six seven games over 500 like they've played better and the thing last season some of these games they weren't even in they were getting blown out now they're they're competing on a night-to-night basis and you have to give demar a lot of credit for that boost which

a lot of credit for that and kobe white i lot of credit for that. And Kobe White, I mean, I don't know who's your guys' most improved player? Kobe White? Kobe White, definitely. Kobe White, that's not a bad call. He's having, what, 20 points against you? Went from, what, 12 to 20? Starter, playing well. And it's come out and it was like, once Zach got hurt,

you saw his numbers went skyrocketing. And you know what's crazy? Because like you said, he had a shaky moment in the beginning of the season. He got the opportunity and just really been going crazy. That chemistry is really hot, too. You can tell. And I think that's what makes people think. But again, Chicago fans, I'm sure, blow it up, blow it up.

But it's like, if you're not going to get real offers for DeMar Droz, you know, real offers. You can probably trade DeMar. But like you said with the other trade we just discussed, what are you trading a DeMar Drozan for? Is that going to keep you competitive? Is that going to keep you in it? So you can at least compete at a high level.

And no one was really giving up good draft picks for a guy that's going to be a free agent in the summer. So my sense is they're going to go into the offseason. We'll see what happens the rest of the year. But I think they're going to want to see what they can get done with DeMar Drozan long term. DeMar deserves to be on a contender or a team contender. For sure.

He's been in the league a little bit. Yeah. I don't know where I want to see him play. I don't want him being with the Lakers. Nah, don't do that. Nah, I don't want him to go to the Lakers. What do you mean? A team like Miami?

He'd be fired with Miami. Perfect. Yeah, that's't want him to go to the Lakers. We'd do my team like Miami. He'd be fired with Miami. Perfect. Yeah, that's perfect. They won't shoot no threes. Nothing for me. Jimmy, no threes. That's kind of hard, though, because do you... I don't know, y'all, because what about Tyler Hero, too?

He going to play. But Tyler Hero is one of those guys. He's playing well, actually. He's being bad. He has been. But... You think all three of them won't come match?

Yeah. One thing about Jimmy, Jimmy know how to make everybody better. And he don't mind taking a back row. When he got to beat a dog, he can beat a dog.

And DeMar the same way. When he was in San Antonio, he was literally like a point forward almost. Yeah, he was running a point guard. He was doing everything. Tyler Herro get buckets.

As you said, Kobe White, though. One of my choices for most approved, Jalen Williams. Got to put him up there. Like, okay, see. This is his second season? Yeah, second season. And he's going crazy. Insane.

I mean, he's balling. I saw him yesterday, actually. It was crazy. I interviewed him in the summer. We were talking about fashion. That was the crux of the interview. Yeah. And I remember we both looked at each other. I think if we do an interview now, the summer. We were talking about fashion. That was the crux of the interview. Yeah. And I remember we both looked at each other.

I think if we do an interview now, the topic's changed. Yeah, absolutely. Are you going to be an all-star next year? That's what the topic is going to be. And what's so fire about OKC? And you look at other places who, like, even so much with Cleveland last year, like, rebuilding fast in the NBA is like a trend. It's not weight no more.

That's like, even with the Pacers, like us going to get Pascal was just like, oh, we really actually following the trend now because nowadays them young teams, they're not young long. You get your pieces that you can ride with and you figure out how to fill the slot and you can have a rebuild year in 18 months. How is that like now with the drafting process?

Is that like, is that weighing in on how draft picks are valued now, the way that people are rebuilding? I mean, it's just, now you either are going to hoard your draft picks or you're going to use them,

right? Like, so Indy, Indy went all in, you know? They didn't, the thing with Indy is they didn't value this year's draft.

I mean, that's, that's the crux of it. So they didn't value as high as to be like, we'll move these three first to go get Pascal Siakam and they, and they did it. It seems like, okay'll move these three firsts to go get Pascal Siakam. And they did it.

Teams like OKC, I mean, they got one of the more talented young rosters, but they also have like 30 draft picks. I want to say they got 10 first round picks they can trade. A bunch of seconds, obviously. A bunch of swaps they can trade. And that's why they made a trade with Dallas on deadline day that went overlooked. They gave up one of their 2024 first round picks to Dallas for a future pick swap. They didn't even get a future first. They get pick swap. Unprotected pick swap.

So that's Sam Presti being like listen we got we got enough young players here we're gonna give up one of our first round picks coming up soon cause it's like what are you gonna do with one more rookie scale guy on this roster

so give up that pick and then we'll get we'll see if we wanna swap like four or five years from now three years from now if we need that so

I think what they're building right now is you gotta give them credit and at the deadline they get Gordon Hayward and I think the Gordon Hayward right now is you got to give them credit. And at the deadline, they get Gordon Hayward. And I think the Gordon Hayward pickup is good because he's a vet. He plays the right way. But let's say you have a guy with injury, you know, has an injury,

but there's foul trouble down the stretch of a playoff game. Like who better to throw in there? Or someone might be struggling. Who better to throw in there than Gordon Hayward in that type of moment? And he literally is like perfect fit for their team because he played just how they play. They all play with six, eight wings. Like Jalen Williams plays the four. You know what I mean?

Goran Hayward's the same size as him. They all play positionless basketball, basically. Because shit, he a center, but he a really a PG. He a small forward, really. He can shoot, dribble, all that. So their team is just like a perfect plan. They play like I play on 2K. For real, everybody can pass, everybody can shoot, everybody can dribble the ball.

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between Brandon Ingram and Zion next year. You think? I think so. Why can't you pay them both? You can afford it. Do they? But they're the Pelicans. I think so. Why can't you pay them both? You can afford it. Do they? Do you? But they're the Pelicans.

Do you think that, uh, because Zion, right, his contract can be voided now, right? I mean, obviously not.

He'd be, better be crying. I mean, he's played. He's played. No, yes, but I was just saying,

like, they got him off the internet. That's all that was. They was trying to scare him off. Yeah. I got off the internet, everything cool again. Because Freaky Z, he going to meet those weight requirements for sure.

You call him Freaky Z? Is that the nickname? No, he ain't earned a full name yet. Oh, okay. Just Freaky Z? Yeah, just Freaky Z for that. Freaky Zion. He get a real nickname later.

BJ boys. No, but they got to. What do you think about their team Jeff do you think that with those two guys and CJ you can like they

they called on DeJounte Murray trade deadline they looked at different packages mostly around you know the young player

that they were looking at Dyson Daniels potentially you know Atlanta wanted Herb Jones and that was that was

Herb Jones and New Orleans didn't want to move Herb Jones from what I was told. Nah, he's a valuable piece, though. Yeah, he cold. And that's what's such a fine line. Because New Orleans is like, listen, if we can bring in DeJounte Murray while keeping our core, of course we want to do that. Beautiful.

But the moment you have to give up a member of your core, it's like, is it worth it? Does it really make us better? Does it push over time? Would you have given up Herb Jones for DeJounte Murray? Yeah. I think, because DeJounte Murray? Yeah. I think because DeJounte's still young. And he's a two-way player. He plays hard.

But it gives him another ball handler. Because I know CJ, he can play point. But he's not a natural point guard. DeJounte, he's a two-way to combo guard. But I just give him another ball handler. Herb Jones is a defender shooter. He's a defender first. Yeah.

He's going to be a piece that really helps our team. I think you can get another one of him. Another Herb? Yeah, I think you can. I think you can find another long defender.

I mean, Miami do it every year. They find somebody. Miami's just, they're scouting. You got to give their scouting department a lot of credit. So, I think you can find a guy like him I'm not saying he's not a valuable player

He definitely is Reason my Hawks want him But You can find another guy like him They don't do that bro We rebuilding I had a Yeah

I ain't about to trade Trey Young though Oh We got a We got a club We got a club 520 prediction Nah I made that up But

The real Sean Holmes. He probably want to go though. I'm sure he wants to go to San Antonio. Ooh, that's... Nah, bro. Why wouldn't he, bro? To play with Wimby? To play with Wimby is cool.

Him and Wimby will be... That'd be ridiculous. But going to live from Atlanta to San Antonio is crazy. He's from Oklahoma. Touche. You didn't play for Quinn, did you? Yeah, I played with Quinn his first year in Atlanta. In Atlanta.

Yeah. Do you think Quinn wants to rebuild? Nah. Quinn like to win. That's what I'm saying. He likes to win. So if you're Quinn, you know, from everything I hear, the Quinn-Trey relationship's been really good.

Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, it's two things. I Quinn-Trey relationship has been really good. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, it's two things. I think Trey understands he needs Quinn to win. Yeah. And Quinn knows he needs Trey if you're going to try to win in Atlanta. And that relationship's been good. So what do you do if you're Atlanta? You just can't.

There's nobody on the market that can, like, take Atlanta over. Yeah, like, take Atlanta over the hump. You got to have a certain type of player to play with Trent Young. like take Atlanta over. Yeah, like take Atlanta over the hump. You got to have a certain type of player to play with Trent Young. You need a lob threat or you need a big that has the ability to stretch the floor. And we haven't been able to get that in Atlanta. Like I love our bigs. I love O, Jalen.

Everybody's cool. Like it's just not a great fit right now though. Like D-Hunt really doesn't play anymore. Dre, like he need to play. I. Dre, like, he need to play. I'm not going to say he need to play more, but he don't play as much as he used to. So I'm sure he's a trade piece, but his contract is pretty steep. DeJounte and Trey, they're both great guards,

but I don't know if they fit together. Yeah. I don't know if that's... Trey needs the ball. Like, he's Luka. He's James Harden. He needs the ball. Like, he's Luca. He's James Harden. He needs the ball. So, you got to put guys

around who can make shots, shot up, create their own shot here and there, but Trey going to create it for him. And DeJounte, a guy, he's still getting 20 points a game, but he's a guy

that, I do this too. I don't think it's a great fit. Speaking of you talking about one of the best trades in history, I feel like that Luca and Trey trade is still... I know, obviously,

Luka's here, even though Trey's here, but that's still one of the better trades because both teams got a franchise player. But you didn't get a generational talent in Luka.

I understand. I know it's different, but it's still like they didn't get a person who was a slot. Nah, Trey. Trey Young is an all-NBA caliber player, too.

Nah, Trey Young is cold. They've both been to the conference finals, though. Nah, that's a fact. That's a fact. Both of them. We played Trae Young in the conference finals. Yeah, you had to admit that. I had my bright spot in that series.

He said, what the fuck? You can't even shoot no more. I was like, damn, Trae. What do you think about Milwaukee right now? Fear the deer. Fear the deer. Fear the deer. My bucks. Your bucks.

My bucks. They in a rough patch right now. I think it's up and down. They still trying to find themselves. I think once Dame and Giannis get on the same page, like once Doc figures out how they want to work together. But I feel like they have to play separately. You know how like...

Stagger to the minutes. Yeah. I think they have to play separately. You know how like... Staggered in the minutes. Yeah. I think they have to let Dame have his moment with the team and then Giannis have his moment. And then once they do that, I think they'll find a good groove. Because Dame... Yeah, like because Dame's so talented offensively. Yeah.

And Giannis so talented offensively. I think if you don't let them both have their moments where they're the guy, it ain't going to work. For sure. Free T-Nasty. Who's that? T-Nasty. You got to have T-Nasty, bro.

The Nastus. The Nastus. Oh, T-Nasty. He's a missing link, bro. He's a glue piece? Oh, yeah. All him the glue is crazy. He seems like a great teammate, though.

No, he isn't. He's an assistant coach, for real, though. I'm rolling. No, I'm dead serious, bro. He was a real agent, Griffin. He used to really, like, pull me to the side before the games and tell me what I needed to do. Did you listen? I used to be like, bro, I'm not about to play.

Don't tell that to Drew or somebody. He was like, no, no, when you get in, you need to do this. Nah, bro. You're talking to the wrong dude, bro. I'm on this group project like you. I don't got no words for what he did. That's crazy. Now, I know that this was rumored,

but LeBron possibly being a warrior or them trying to make that happen is still crazy, but I still would love for that to happen one way or another. I would love to see a season of LeBron had to play with Steph. It would ruin the NBA, and I'm here for it. I mean... That would be crazy. I don't think there was any chance LeBron James was leaving

the Lakers at the deadline. No matter who called. But, like, this summer's going to be interesting. He has a playoff. At the end of the day, his future is in question just for the simple fact he's got a play option. We don't know what he's going to do. Where does Bronny end up?

Does Bronny declare? Does he get in the draft? Who drafts him? Like there's all these dominoes that have to fall before his play option. I believe his play option date is after the draft. So we're going to, a lot of questions are going to be answered.

If Bronny comes out. He's brilliant, man. And Bronny's in the draft. We're going to like, a lot of questions are going to be answered. If Bronny comes out. He's brilliant, man. And Bronny's in the draft. We're going to, like, a lot of questions. Like, let's say Miami or whoever drafts Bronny, right? Cleveland. Then that'd be crazy. Well, no.

You know, like, does, you know, LeBron has said he wants to play with Bronny. But does that mean next season? Does that mean after Bronny's rookie year? Like, there are a lot of questions that I think LeBron still has to figure out and spend second half of the season. We still don't know how far that team's going to go. We still don't know what's going to happen with that team. Obviously, they got Spencer Dewey on the buyout market.

They didn't make any trades at the deadline. That was basically their trade. And I think he's going to be a good fit. Gabe Vincent trying to come back first week of March, potentially second week of March.

We'll see if he makes it back. But they got to get healthy. Jared Vanderbilt has to get back in the lineup. And if they get healthy, I mean, this team has a shot. I think they got

the Western Conference last year. As long as the coaching staff players are on the same page, I think they have a shot. Yeah, I think LeBron can book that vacation a little bit earlier this year. Yeah.

But if Bronny gets drafted to Cleveland and LeBron goes back to Cleveland, this is like a 2K story. It's not real. This can't be real. That would be the most toxic relationship of all time. He can fuck around and get drafted to the Lakers, bro. Yeah, they going to draft him. That's dope.

Going back to your ex twice is crazy. If LeBron goes back to Cleveland, that's insane. Well, three times. He started there, left, went back. Yeah, he went back twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of time. A lot of time back home.

Don't leave that alone. The NBA, hey, man. We're going to really miss LeBron. Because ain't nobody else going to be able to do the shit that he does and really have everybody's mind messed up for a whole year just off allegations. Who do you guys think are the next names? After LeBron,

Steph, and KD. Anthony Edwards, bro. He's one of the guys. I think Shea. I think MVP Shea. Shea for sure. Lomelo. Free Lomelo. He got to get out of Charlotte, though. I don't know about Lomelo. I think he's a great player. The personalities with the game, bro.

The game has changed. But they're so bad in Charlotte. Like, you can't even appreciate his game because they're so bad. I think for the first time in a while, Charlotte actually picked a direction, though. Yeah, but I'm— Trading guys away, getting picks. And Melo hasn't been playing. And it took so long.

Really? Yeah, he's been out. You know what I mean? They got Trey Mendo. I like that for them. Yeah, he's been out. You know what I mean? They got Trey Mendo. I like that for them. Yeah, he's playing really, really well. Grant Williams, they got. Yeah.

His value was low, and he's playing well. They hated him in Dallas. Grant, I know what he was doing, because I play with Grant. He's not a bad guy at all. He just probably was just talking the whole fucking time. He never shuts up. Like, the whole day he talks. Like, he wakes up talking.

He be like, Grant, I don't care. Grant, leave it alone, Grant. He the first player to get a DMP for talking too much. They put that on the report. Literally, I'll say. I knew it. He always talking.

I think Luka and Ja are going to take over the league, though. That's one person I... Like, Ja's absence was felt this year. Yeah, man. I mean, when he came back, they were 6-3. They were rolling.

It was unfortunate, man, with his injury. They could not play without him. Jaron Jackson is a totally different player without Ja Morant. That whole team is. He's an all-star, though. You know what I mean?

It's kind of like, damn, you really need your guy. He the heartbeat of the team. He everything to the team. But that's because his personality, the team. I think losing Dylan Brooks, even though they got my guy Marcus, he was a good player. He's been hurt, too. But Dylan Brooks was like, he gave him an edge.

Yeah, you were. And it like, almost like that Tony Allen, Mike Conley, Z-Bo kind of team. You hope Smart gives you that once this team is whole again. Yeah. Yeah, but it's kind of different. You know, like Smart came, he had that Boston lineage. Like Boston, they carried themselves a certain way. You walked in, your bags, your clothes nice.

Then you get to this team with all these young dudes. They dancing. That ain't smart. Smart ain't dancing. He not doing all that. He like a serious dude that you get with a team full of young guys dancing around. I don't know. Dylan Brooks just fit that.

Like, he doing that. That's why the Rockets are a good team this year. You know, he brung that same energy with them, a bunch of young guys. He just fit in, bro. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think they should have let him go.

I want to ask you that question in reverse. Like, I mean, obviously outside of Wimby, we know how good he is. How do you feel about some of the young workers this year?

I mean, Chet, you know he's going to be a beast for years to come. Elite. So who's your guy's rookie of the year? I have to be Wimby. It's light, man. Ten blocks, bro.

Statistically, I said this actually on air last week, I think. I think it's only a matter of time before he gets a quadruple-double. I think it's only a matter of time before he becomes the NBA League history leader in quadruple-doubles. I think it's four guys with one quadruple-doubles. leader in quadruple doubles. I think it's four guys with one quadruple doubles. He came five assists away from doing it in like 29 minutes the other game. I think it's only a matter of time. Once he starts playing 35 to 40 minutes consistently,

he's going to get one. He's going to get another one. We're going to look up. He's at like five to ten over his career. I mean, he could literally do everything. He could stuff the stat sheet. Chet, you have to give him a lot of credit. And then Brandon Miller, he's played really, really well.

He got game. He looks like a guy that can definitely be an all-NBA caliber. Terry Rozier, Trey, open the door for him. He been killing. Yeah, he's been cooking. I'm curious to see how Scoot Henderson develops. Obviously, point guard. Jeff, you play point.

That's probably the toughest position mechanically to understand. You've seen him make strides. One game, look really good. Next game, the team will struggle. It's also tough for him not being on the team. Some more bets. Yeah. I mean, they got bets, but need better.

They had a year one rebuild. Yeah. Aiden Funny. Aiden Funny. I'll be watching his tweets. He's hilarious. DNP. Snowstorm. That's crazy. That's fine. Call it off and Aiden funny as hell. I'll be watching his tweets. He's hilarious. DNP. Snowstorm.

That's crazy. That's far. Call it off and he'd be as far. Nah, not really. Have you ever seen that one? Nah, that was the first time I seen that. I'm like, is this real? I didn't think it was real, but that happened to me in Atlanta, actually.

I take that back. I couldn't get down a hill or up the hill in my car. I had a little BMW. I think that's what happened to DeAndre Ayton is there was a steep hill. Yeah. And they were saying, basically, we can't allow you to come up or down. Like, it's just not safe. Yeah.

And it's tough. That happened to me in Atlanta. We had a snowstorm in Atlanta. How did you get out? I didn't. cancelled the game though nah yeah they didn't have any I couldn't move

I was stuck in the house for like three days Atlanta don't prepare for snowstorms at all so they had no salt trucks nothing so the whole city was shut down

Lou Will actually left his phantom on the side of the road you should ask him about it I will yeah yeah he left his phantom on the side of the road

I was like damn you do that we know we Phantom on the side of the road. I was like, damn. You do that, we know we in trouble. Nah, but he leave the Phantom out there because ain't nobody coming to get it. Dang, T.

I didn't know you was the first. Nah, I mean, they canceled the whole game, so it was cool. But the rest of your team got to work on it. Yeah, some people was at the gym,

but me, they ended up canceling it though. I mean, if it's a canceled game, you're good on all accounts yeah you're good but hey watching your watching your team play for the crib hey y'all going crazy tonight hold it down that's far the first time i ever got injured that's how i felt they went on the road and you obviously you watching the game i'm like dang they really out there without me yeah i was i was sick dennis schroeder was hooping, too. I was like, fuck.

The rebuild. Yeah, I was like, I was touching my ankle. I gotta get back. I can't let him start getting started minutes, man. He gonna take my spot. Nah, but. But on that note, we're gonna get up out of here, big dog. Appreciate you guys having me, man.

JT, you can find me at The Athletic, on Stadium, FanDuel TV, Running Back. Twitter. Twitter, Shams Charania. IG, I think, Shams NBA.

You know, I love what I do. You guys love what you guys do, so it's all in the love of the game. So, appreciate you guys having me, man. Thanks for having me here. Appreciate you, man. Hey, look,

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