Club Shay Shay - Club Shay Shay - Daniel Cormier Part 1

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

UFC Hall of Famer Daniel Cormier sits down with Shannon Sharpe at Club Shay Shay for an unfiltered conversation about his legendary journey — from Lafayette, Louisiana to becoming one of the greatest fighters to ever step in the octagon. DC reflects on his humble beginnings, being bullied as a kid, arrested for street fighting in college, and even trying and failing at selling fake crack before finding his path through wrestling. He explains how his wrestling background shaped his fighting style, why his 5’10” height gave him an advantage grappling, and how his first love of boxing through Wide World of Sports laid the foundation for his combat career. Despite not going to school for media, he became one of the most respected voices in sports, proving fans want authenticity and lived experience. Cormier opens up about starting MMA at 30, fighting into his 40s because the money was too good, and joining the UFC without ever throwing a punch. He talks about cutting massive amounts of weight — even avoiding Thanksgiving seasoning to drop from 255 to 205 in just weeks — and why so many fighters struggle with drugs after retirement, chasing the high of walking through an electric UFC crowd. He even shares the secret of sleeping before fights, baffling his coaches and teammates. DC relives his iconic rivalry with Jon Jones, from brawling at their first press conference to being knocked out for the first time in his life. He recalls not remembering anything from the knockout to the ambulance ride, and Dana White sending him $1 million afterward. He details how Jones set him up with body kicks before the head-kick KO, why Jones is the most talented fighter ever but not the GOAT because of steroids, and why finding out about Jones’ failed tests felt like losing his first girlfriend. He says Jones wouldn’t beat him at heavyweight, wonders why he won’t fight Tom Aspinall, and insists Jon should fight at the White House so an American can actually win. Cormier doesn’t hold back on today’s stars: praising Tom Aspinall, calling Derrick Lewis the “Knockout King,” and saying Francis Ngannou looks like the perfect heavyweight champion. He recalls Cyril Gane being starstruck in the ring with Jon Jones, predicts Jake Paul’s boxing ceiling, and weighs in on matchups like Jake Paul vs. Canelo Alvarez, Anthony Joshua, and Mike Tyson. He even explains why boxers can’t beat MMA fighters in a street fight. On his personal Mount Rushmore, DC picks Demetrious Johnson, Georges St-Pierre, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Chuck Liddell, and Randy Couture — leaving off Anderson Silva and Jon Jones because of steroids. He shares why Khabib is the greatest fighter ever, how their friendship formed, and why Dagestan fighters like Khabib and Islam Makhachev are so dominant. He recalls Khabib turning down $40 million to fight again, explains why Conor McGregor’s money ruined his career, and calls Khabib vs. McGregor the biggest fight in UFC history. Outside the octagon, DC talks about nearly playing football at LSU, cornering Herschel Walker, his run-ins with fighters like Ronda Rousey, Miesha Tate, and Brock Lesnar (who he says he’d beat easily), and why he never wanted to join WWE despite the money. He also touches on his friendships with athletes across sports — from Christian McCaffrey, the Manning brothers, and Bronny James to Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds, Vlad Guerrero Jr., and Tom Brady — and whether athletes’ kids can ever surpass their famous fathers. Cormier also opens up about his darkest chapters: his biological father being killed by his stepmother, losing his young daughter in an 18-wheeler accident, and how tragedy shaped him as a father and husband. He explains how his stepfather stepped in as the best role model of his life, how he bought his mom a house, and how money changed his perspective. Finally, DC gives Shannon insight into fight preparation, the science of recovery, and competing into his 40s like LeBron James, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He reveals how a simple sneeze before the Derrick Lewis fight ended his career, why even LeBron could face the same fate from one freak injury, and why a fighter’s legacy can change in a single moment. From rivalries and weight cuts to family, fatherhood, and fighting for legacy — this is Daniel Cormier like you’ve never heard him before.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm

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Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Have we ever seen someone in that sport that possessed the arsenal that he has? No. He's by far the most talented person that we've had in mixed martial arts. When he beat me, I was never... That was the best you'd ever been. I'd never been better. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, you're three years apart.

And now y'all move up and y'all by the heavyweight. No, he wasn't beat me heavy All my life Been grinding all my life Sacrifice Hustle paid the price Want a slice Got the roll of dice

That's why All my life I've been grinding on my life Look All my life Been grinding all my life Sacrifice Hustle paid the price

Want a slice Got the roll a dice That's why All my life I be grinding on my life Hello Welcome to another episode of Club Shethe

I am your host Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietive club, Shishay. Stopping by for conversation and a drink today is one of the most accomplished and decorated fighters in MMA history. He's one of the great mixed martial artists of all times, a warrior in the Octagon, a champion in every MMA organization he's competed in, a former UFC light heavyweight champion and heavyweight champion. He's the second fighter in UFC history to hold titles in two weight classes simultaneously. He's the first fighter in the UFC to win and defend both the light heavyweight

and the heavyweight belts. A UFC Hall of Famer, a two-time Olympian, three-time Louisiana state champion, an all-American freestyle wrestler, color commentator, world-class talent, a master on the microphone, a father, a husband, a legend. D.C. could stand for double champion, but in this case, it stands

for Daniel Cormier. My man, say it again. When you say it all, when you say it all, when you say it all, man, I'm going to tell you, when you say it all, Well, it's something, because I grew up in Louisiana. I never could have imagined this life. I swear to God, I never could have imagined.

And to hear all that, man, that was a ride. Man, thanks for stopping by Club Shay-Shay. Thank you, man. You know when you stop by Club Shaysay, you know you got to have a taste of her. Yeah, yeah, that Shay Bala Poulche. Yeah, man. Award winning. It's good.

It's great. You know anything about Kanye? No, I don't, but let me. I'm going to try that. Oh, it smells strong, too. See? Switch it around, don't know. Well, that's pretty good.

It don't even really... Yeah, see, it ain't got that bike. I didn't got that bottle. I was expecting a little bit. So my daddy drank like Southern comfort and stuff. Like, yeah. Set your hair on fire. Yeah.

No, no, no, no. No, it's nice and smooth. Yeah, it's easy. See? We got to get you something. We've got to get something for your old man. That's actually really good. Yeah, see.

Yeah, that's real good. Let me ask you, when you hear what I read off, and you and I were talking before we started this interview and you was talking about growing up in Louisiana and the expectations of now you're in media. Did you expect any of this to happen this be your life at your age now? No, Shannon, I was a kid that I didn't do,

I grew up in Lafayette, right? So it's not the best place. Right. But I followed everybody, so I did everything they did. So whenever I was in high school, my freshman year, I was a kid that failed off the wrestling team. Right. I was a kid that had to go to summer school

to get. get to 10th grade. I did all kinds of bad stuff until I started getting better at wrestling. Right. And then I realized, like, wait, this wrestling can take me somewhere. Right.

But even after that, I never thought that I would have jobs doing what I do with the volume, working at ESPN, working at Fox that I used to. A lot of similarities, right? Yes. Yes. But, like, having those opportunities,

I never could have imagined doing that because I didn't even go, I didn't go to college for media. Right. You went to college to play sports. And normally the best people that are in media didn't go to college for media, especially when they do what we do. Now, obviously, you know, the play-by-play and things of that, you know, obviously, but to sit

and talk about a sport, it really helps if you played that sport and you can speak through personal experience. Absolutely. And that's what people want to hear. The people actually want to hear when you are talking as the guy that played the tight-in, the guy that's in the pro football Hall of Fame, when you're talking about football. Yes. Because they know, well, he's been in the trenches.

Yes. And that's what I do when it comes to fighting. I can explain something in real fine detail. Yes. Because there's no position I haven't experienced the good and the bad in my career. I'm going to take it from this approach. You got a late start to MMA. Yep.

And getting a late start, that didn't deter you because now I'm looking at you what you were able to accomplish later in your career. Yeah. I mean, how is that possible, D.C.? So I walked into that gym at 30 and a half. I turned 31 in March. I only fought for 10 years. And at 41, I should have been done.

But the money had got too good. That's what the money is going to get good at the end. The money get good at the end whenever you aren't supposed to be doing it anymore. But I kept fighting. But I walked into that gym, but because of my background in wrestling, it gave me like a massive head start. So I went out to San Jose. I went to multiple gyms recruiting. They were trying to get me to train.

But I walked in the A.K.A. where I saw King Velasquez, I was like, yo, that dude is who I want to fight like. And if I can train alongside him, it will lead me to being one of the best. But at 31 years old, I was essentially making my MMA debut. Because normally guys that are really, really good, they start, obviously, you've got a wrestling background. But they've been doing this for an extremely long period of time. And you just basically, I mean, 30 years old with a wrestling background, but you've got to be multifaceted to be really good in the UFC.

The more rounded you are, the better you are. If you're one-dimensional, you're not going to have a very short shelf life in that sport. Yep, not today. You definitely cannot be one-dimensional today. Right. Back in the day, you remember Roy's graceing those guys? I do. They would walk with the jujitsu chain.

You had the jiu-jitsu gun and you had the big boxer. One brother went out there with one glove on his name was R. Jimison. He went out there with one glove. can't do that. The first two fights that were in Denver, Colorado, I saw him, UFC. Really? Yeah. You went?

I went. See, that's crazy. I was telling day to the story. You actually went to watch it? I went to watch it. Because I, you know, there's like, okay, and, you know, listening to him what it's going to be. Well, we're going to see if a karate guy could beat a this guy. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yeah.

And I'm like, okay, so what about the class? They're like, ain't a weight class. I'm like, hold on. So a guy at 125 could literally be fighting somebody, 275? Like, yeah. I'm like, I don't think this going in well. But that's what drew you in, right? And then Royce wins, and he's 165.

Yes, I'm looking at his little dude. I said, you're about to get the brace beat off you. And he got his, he got his suit on. And I'm like, what's he doing? He's like literally trying to lay down. I'm like, I don't think this, because I ain't never heard about no. T.C., I don't know about no Brazilian jitsu. And he's like laying down.

I'm like, what you're doing? You go down there, you're in trouble. Yeah, exactly. If you go around there with him, they were in trouble. But I had, so my manager, still to this day, Dwayne, he calls me. When I graduate college at Oklahoma State, he goes, hey, there's a sport. This is 2001. He goes, there's a sport that's going to take over.

It's going to be MMA. It's fighting. Have you ever been in a fight, like, in your life? Right. I started laughing at him. I said, bro, I grew up in Louisiana. I had to fight all the time. Right.

And I think that, that, even though, Shannon, like, we don't, I'm pretty sure you grew up down in the South Carolina, and you had to fight at times. Even though we aren't doing it correctly, somebody's trying to punch you. You're trying to punch someone. So then when somebody taught me to punch, like I'm, okay, this is how it's done the right way. Right, correct.

So it allowed for me to adjust to it much fast. And I wasn't scared. Right. Like, that's the biggest thing with wrestlers, especially, being scared to get hit. You cannot be scared. Right. How is it that we're starting to see more athletes, D.C.,

dominate in their 40s? You saw a guy like yourself. You see a LeBron James. You saw a Tom Brady. You see guys that are playing at extreme. Because normally, guys, they're gone. By the time they get to the mid-30s, they're gone, especially in your sport. Even in football, guys ain't playing that long.

And every once in a while, you get a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar that'll be. But he's a big guy, and he doesn't need to get up and down the court. Yep. But to see Tom play until he's, what, 43, 44 years of age, yourself fighting. At 41, yeah. That's a whole, LeBron still being able to be, play at the level he's playing at. why do you think guys have been able to do things to this level much longer because of the access to recovery i think athletes are smarter today those guys are very young so when we're younger like you're in your 20s you're 30s you're a superman

yeah you go to sleep you jump out of bed you go to train yeah every day but then as you start to get old it the body starts to ache a little more but those guys in their 20s and 30s are not they're not rejecting the body anymore. They're saying at 25, while I may feel great, I know there are like problems underlying for me that I need to address, address, make sure that I'm straight. And I think that's why they're playing so long. But they're playing at an elite level. I remember when Peyton Manning went to Denver. He said it himself, he goes, I can't throw the ball down the field. He goes, but I will manage a game. Every now and again, I'll give you one that goes a little

deeper. Right. He goes, but I'm managing the game. Because at the point, we were still kind of living in that world where you just age. And then you age out. And even Aaron Rogers right now, right? We'll see what happens this year. But last year, he just didn't look like the same guy and caught him to him quick. Right. Going into a fight, because like you said, when you're young, you feel invisible. You feel you can't lose. As you start to get age, you're like, I'm not as quick as I once was. My reaction time is not the same. My defense mechanisms are not the same. My spidey senses don't tingle like they were dead. I'm not processing information. You're not. You're

You know what I'm saying? The computer is the internet isn't working. The internet, you're back on the AOL. Dial-up. You're on dial-l up. You're exactly right. But D.C., I mean, for you to, I mean, you went in there and you did what you did to Steve P.

Like, what's your thought process? Did you like, man, I'm getting older. Did you do any, did you train any different? So at 39, I didn't. So I didn't at 39. This is the craziest shit ever. So 39 starts. Yes.

Right? In 2017, I lost to John Jones in Anaheim. Right. So they called me, hey, you want to fight another fight? It was like September, October. I said no. I said, this was the first time I'd been knocked out in my life. Like, in my life, Hannah, like, in football I would hit people and you kind of buzzed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was knocked out. Bell rung, your stars, yeah. And all it was was my bell just got rung, right? You go back to playing. I got knocked out, man. Like, he kicked me in the head, and he hit me. a bunch of follow-up shots and it put me out like hey i remember i can tell you right now this

was in 2017 from the the moment that fight finished all the way back to the ambulance i still can't recall that time really i can't make myself remember what happened i try i try now even at night to go man what happened in that 10 15 minutes dude there's a video on me crying with joe rogan he's interviewing me after the fight but i'm so concussed that i'm so concussed that i'm I'm crying in the Octon because I just lost the biggest fight of my career. Right. They called me to fight again, and I said, no, I said, I'm going to let my brain rest until the end of the next year, or to begin the next year.

I fight in January. At 39, I feel great. I win the belt back. I beat Steepa in July, and I'm fine. I feel no age because of the late start, right? I'm only doing this seven years now, eight years. Because of the late start, at 39, I become the double champ. I defend the belt in Madison Square Garden.

Everything's great. But on that morning of that fight with Derek Lewis, I get up to do my shakeout. I go run, hit my pads. As I'm on the treadmill, I'm like, God, I'm like, I don't feel great this morning. Like, I'm kind of like ache you, right? Shannon, I'm running. I sneeze. Bro, when I sneeze, threw my back out.

What? Through my back out. I sneeze so violently. That's like a baseball player. This is a mess like that. Yes, I sneeze so violently, my back went out. So now I'm a stuck hunched over. Mind you, at 1 a.m. tonight,

I've got to walk to that octagon and fight Derek Lewis. You can't lose a main event on the day. So then they come in a day, they massage me. They give me a stem cell treatment. They get me up in about around 5 o'clock in the afternoon. I go fight. One month after that, I'm in the gym training. I kick Kane's leg.

He checks it. Tingo goes all the way up my leg. The disc sits on my sciatica. Now I'm paralyzed almost. And from that moment on, I just was not the same guy. It took one incident, a sneeze. essentially ended my career because I never want to fight again.

Steve A beat me the next time, then he beat me the following time. It's like, I never, it was that one thing. So I think these guys, while they're playing longer, have an ability to go longer, but it'll be one thing. LeBron, if LeBron gets hurt, it's not going to be like when he got hurt in his 20s.

He's really going to struggle to bounce back. Because when you're younger, the ability to bounce back, I mean, an injury that would keep you down a day, all of a sudden it's two, three days. Or maybe it's a week. And a injury that would keep you down a week. When you're younger, it's keeping you down two weeks or maybe even a month. Yeah.

The body just doesn't recover. With the football, like, how old were you when you retired? I was, uh, I was, I was going to turn 36 in two months. So you were still relatively young. Yeah. In today's game, though, you'd have played three more years. Yes. Right?

But how did the, how did the model? Because they don't, in training camp, we had, you know, we was outside twice a day. We hitting. We have some days, we have two of day practices. They don't even hit no more. No, no, no, no. They don't hit them more. We hit.

They were for real, real hit. And we hit for real, real, in college. And we hit for real real in high school. Yep. So, but I think it got our body used to taking that. We didn't have these little tic-and-tack injuries that these guys get now. But do you think that because you didn't have the wear and tear that, you know, say, if you had gotten until it was like in your 20, like I think John Jones started at like 20.

John Jones started like 19. Yeah. Do you think because you didn't have the wear and tear? Because like you said, even though you had you. even though you got, I mean, you had a short shelf life. Really, you don't have like eight years. Yeah, yeah. I fought for eight years.

Yeah. I was the champ. I was in the championship bridge for eight years. I fought for the belt those last two years. That didn't mean I was necessarily in the picture, right? I was fighting for the belt because I have the name value. I was fighting for the belt and I'm because I was the champion. Right.

I had to defend. Sure, I was beating, Stepe, but man, by that, that old monkey jump on my back in the third round, I was beating the shit out of him. By the third round, the monkey jumped on my back, I was like, yo, I am exhausted. I lost it. I'd never felt it before. Wow. Yeah, it was crazy. It was, it is the scariest thing that you could ever imagine in your life.

I've been in some hairy situations. Inside that octagon, not having the energy to fight, because that dude wants to kill you. Yes. If that, like, if that referee don't take him off of you, he'll keep beating you up. Like, seriously, like, that's how you got to approach fighting. Right. So it's like, that's a scary. When you're like, you get off that stool and you're like, oh, my God, I don't know how I've got 10 more minutes.

Right. I'm scared. I forget who it was. But I remember there was some lady that she like woke. She's like, I was in the ring and I realized I didn't want to fight anymore. Oh. I was like, you probably want to like in training or maybe even the night before. In the back?

Yes. But you don't in the ring and she, I forget her name. She fought? Yes. She got knocked out, didn't she? She lost. Yes, she lost. She lost.

Misha Tate. Misha Tate. Yep. Misha Tate. Yep. I remember her saying that. And I was like, boy, that's an awful time to find out you don't want to do something when you're actually doing it. Yeah.

There's some questions before. Every time. Oh, yeah, for sure. Every time there's some questions. I used to watch, I used to watch Floyd and all them dudes like in the ring when they're introduced. I'm like, how do they do that? How do they find calm in this with everything going on around them? Right.

With what's at stake? Yeah. And I was like, man, I couldn't do it. But then I would walk to that octagon. It's the most, like, you know, like you know, right? And that's why people, that's what people don't understand. When you hit that tunnel for a Super Bowl or you hit that tunnel for a big game, your whole body's on fire.

Oh, yeah, yeah, you got goosebumps. You got goosebumps everywhere. What's going through your mind? Shannon, I'm in the back every time. And I would go in, same routine. I'm from Louisiana superstitious. I go in the back and I go to sleep People would look at me like

How can you sleep Knowing that in three hours You're gonna go fight for a world championship But I knew that my preparation I left no stolen turn I'd done everything So the result was done Either I was gonna win or I was gonna lose

Because it wasn't gonna be something that you did That I did wrong And in that three hours How do you settle yourself? I say because I'm ready But I would be in the back I'd get up, I do my warm up Then they would tell me

All right, D.C., you walk in a minute. And he started hearing music. All right, D.C., we're walking in five, four, three, two, one. And it's just nerves. I'm like, how many times should I have gone left? I went to college, Shannon? How did I end up here fighting? Man, I hit that curtain.

Thousands of people, 18,000. The UFC does an amazing job of walking you through the crowd. Mm-hmm. And the energy is just electric. And they're reaching for you. And they want a PCU. Right. And I couldn't even handle it.

I would run to the octagon. because it's just too much. I'm already jazzed. I can't take in any more energy before I step in there. Do you see them? Because a lot of times, like you get into a zone, D.C., and you know, like you said, like, you don't even see the people. It's like a calm.

Like, I'm in a game, and it's like a calm. I don't even hear the crowd. Yeah. It's like everything is just like hush. And all of a sudden you catch your pass, you touch a touchdown, and it's a, ah, you hear it. Yes. It's great. But I can't see them because I'm focused.

Purposely, tunneling. tunneling on the octagon and have the ability to go second so the guy that I'm fighting is already in there right right so I'm not standing there waiting so I'm going second when I hit that when I hit that that freaking uh when

I hit that um that step those steps I'd walk up get fired up y'all season two of good game with Sarah Spain is underway we just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon Megan Rapino to the show and we had a blast

We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiancé Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate.

You can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candice Parker. and college superstar A.Z. Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well.

So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast. College football season is here, and you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween.

Uh-huh. But fear not. The solid verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss and impossible comeback. Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos, and, of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

We don't just love college football, tie. We live it. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Check out Behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club. We go behind the scenes and explore the stories of those involved. San Diego coming to MLS is going to be a game changer

because this region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team. We need veteran players and we need young players. Like you're building a team from scratch. And so the succession plan of long-term success needs to be defined. We need to embrace this community. When I was 13, my uncle took me to a qualifier. and we watched Ottawa against Chile, pouring rain, just watching the fans jumping up and down.

I think that was definitely a watershed moment for me. Not only was that going to be my game, but it was going to be my life. Listen to San Diego FC Behind the Flow. Now on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I tapped the Octagon. That was some football shit.

We used to always hit the... Play like a champ today, right? I would always tap the octagon. I go in there, bro, there's Bruce. Bruce is dressed to the dine. There's some commissioners making sure we don't fight before. And then when they do the last instruction, then you turn around, there was a pen that they dropped to lock the cage.

It makes that sound right there that he just dropped. Right. I could hear it. 20,000 in the arena. And you could still hear that pin. And then I would say to myself, I swear to God, I would be like, somebody got dying this, it ain't going to be me.

Swear the guy every time. I'd be like, somebody going to die in here. I'm about to make you go and lock that gate I'm about to go to make you unlock that gate You'll either jump over this You'll either jump over

to run away from me Or they're going to pull me off for you by the time this is done Right And that was always my approach Because you had to look at it Like life and death You just had to

I had so many things I wouldn't eat I would like abstain from sex I wanted to be as primal as I could be going into the octagon When you cut Okay you're light heavy

That weight of 205 So now Now, so what are you coming down from? You're coming from 230. You're coming from 235. You're coming from 250. What are you coming from, Dee? Shannon.

My nutritionist was at my house for a fight I was supposed to have in January. But I got hurt the day before Thanksgiving, he had a turkey brine, a turkey and a brine. It was in a big old pill. Yeah. It was white, though, Shannon. He was going to make us Thanksgiving dinner, but it was not going to be season. I got hurt right before Thanksgiving. Man, we took that turkey, rinse all that shit off, made it ourself and seasoned it.

The next day I waited, too, 257 pounds. What? I weighed 257. And you got to be 205 in January? January 19th, I weighed in at 204.7. I was 257. What the hell?

I was huge, I was big. But, like, I wasn't tall. Yeah, I know that's a lot of weight in a small area, D.C. But when I would walk into the octagon, you could see where the power was in my ass and my legs. Yes. It was like all this. You're really explosive. Exactly.

And it was all in me. right while I was the shorter guy short arms yeah I had my torso's not tall right but like it's in my legs and that's why the explosiveness was always so on right on display yeah it was good but it was the he's the best it's like walk dude when you're when you're on when you're on that sideline in the national anthem playing that feeling yeah that's what we're feeling bro it's the best it's it literally I've that's why so many fighters end up on drugs and messed up because you can't replace you can't you can't replicate that no you can't and that's why I have to struggle once they leave that said sport.

It's because you're never going to be able to replicate 20,000, 80,000, however many thousand. You're never going to be able to replicate the locker room. You're never going to be able to replicate the bus rides, the plane rise, just a camaraderie. Now, I don't know. But that's what you missed the most. That's what you missed. You literally miss the practices and afterwards just sitting there's off.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I didn't miss the games. I mean, the money was nice, but you just missed the camaraderie, the laughing and joking, you in the line, stretching, and doing all those things. Yep. You mentioned Anaheim. Yep. You fought John Jones.

I think you were 35 and he was 27. Yep, yep. If you guys were comparable ages, is that fight different? I think there are a lot of, I think there are a lot of reasons why he beat me. He's, I mean, have you met John Jones? I haven't. John Jones is probably 6-5, 6-4, 6-5. John Jones's arms are 84 inches apart, his reach.

Wow. Mine are 72. Yeah. So, like, he was taller. Like, so even if, even at the same age, he would still be taller. Yes. Two of his brothers played in the NFL. One was, like, really good Chandler.

Chandler. So I think I would be better because I would be younger. But I don't know if I could have been better in Anaheim because I trained so hard because he beat me the first time. I've never been better. When he beat me, I was never better. That was the best you'd ever be in. I'd never been better. I would have beat everybody else in the world and all those.

weight classes. I was never better than that night. And he beat me. And even the fight up to the point that he got me, it was just super competitive. Right. Joe Rogan said something to the effect of, you can clearly see you're watching the two best lightweights we've ever seen in an octagon. Right. Because we were both so locked in. So I don't know that the age made as much of a difference because I just think that he has a lot of built-in advantages for his height and his reach and he's got great timing and he's tough, dude. He's very tough, Shannon. Like, I would club him upside the head, and he would just keep fighting. He would just, and not many did that.

And that's what I wanted, what makes him, because like you said, okay, he's, he's six foot four and a half, he's six, five, 84-inch reach. He could punch you, he could take you down. See, he don't hit very hard, though, with his hands. He does not punch hard. Really? No, he does not punch hard. He, he, so we were, I went into the fight.

I talked to Rashad Evans. Right. And Rashad goes, he doesn't hit hard, but he has other weapons. So we first started fighting the first time. We trade jabs because I had a real unique ability because of my athleticism to get to the jab, even though the guy was taller. So we jab each other, and my nose started bleeding.

And I was like, well, why my nose bleeding? He all hit the heart. My shit bleeding, his shit bleeding for different reasons. But, um, uh... Oh, there you go. No, I'm like, I don't know that. Ignore that, ignore that. You try to think that with it.

So my shit bleed, right? And I'm like, why is my nose bleed? I was like, why am I? should believe. So anyhow, he, uh, we start fighting and I'm like, okay, but I got to pressure him because I'm shorter. Right. Yo, you got to walk through some razors to get to him. He's got knees. Yes. Elbows. That, so by the time I get in, I've been kneading the body three times. I've been elbowed two times. So now I get off. I get my shit going. And then we get apart. Right. So now I got to go all through the razors again to get my offense going again. That's what makes

some special he's a special fighter he really is and I respect him for what he did inside the octon mainly because he beat me on that night like and you said that's the absolute best. Never been better. D.C. has ever ever been. Shannon I was I was in such great shape

my shoulders were like big I was lifting I was running I was training hard. I was conditioned I was well conditioned I was mopping you was ready to go five if five if five is what is required Because we went 25 the first time. Yes.

Right. And my cardio failed me. Okay. So I was like, I need to be better because it's going 25 again. Okay. And then ultimately he got me with the head kit. Right. But I was in shape, man.

I was ready to go. My mind was strong. Everything was ready to go get the job done on that night. But he got it done. What about him at, what if y'all had moved up? Y'all similar to, let's just say for the sake of argument, you're three years apart. And now y'all move up and y'all have heavyweight. No, he wasn't beating me at heavyweight

He couldn't beat you? I don't think so Because I was good at heavyweight I think I was probably better at And you're probably at natural heavyweight They're wearing the two feet He told them that my natural weight I was like my natural weight

But he almost admitted it He said in the time That we were fighting He goes No, I'm not going to fight him at heavyweight That would be giving him the advantage He goes he's bigger than me naturally And he goes, no

But then like a couple weeks ago He was talking about me fighting I was like, bro, I'm 45 years old, man. I'm 46 now. Right. Go fight the dude that want to fight you. Right. He got a big old.

Oh, he wanted to fight you now at Heavyweight? You're talking about I would beat D.C. at Heavyweight. Yo, I've been retired for five years, my brother. Right. Go fight somebody else. Like, I'm good. Pick on somebody your own side. Go fight Tom Aspinall.

When you and John got into it at the, at the presser. The very first. Yeah. What happened? Damn, D. DC. Hey, Shannon, it's so funny because MMA has struggled to encapture the urban audience. Yes.

It really has. John and I are going to fight the first time. John and I have had a, we've always had a history of not getting along great. Right. So when the press conference happened, we came forward to forehead. I pushed him. He pushed me. We flew off the octon.

That was right in the middle of football season. In every sports center, everything led with that. Because it was that big. Lorenzo Petita told me, he goes, you guys would have made so much money. He goes, you made great money in January, but it was six months. He goes, if y'all fought in September, he goes, you can't imagine how much money you would have made on pay-per-view. Because the fire had died down a little bit after six months passed. But we had that moment where the cameras kept recording.

Right. It was just, we just didn't like each other. But after the fight, I was in Newark, New Jersey, walking around like I would always do. And that's when I realized that being in there with him had changed the way the public perceives me, right? Because I'm in a very urban neighborhood, very black. And everybody's like, hey, hey, hey. But I think it was because of what we did for each other, hate each other, dislike each other. We did great business.

And we did elevate each other to the point that when I fought steep, I was able to elevate him. Right. Because of the name recognition I got from fighting John. Look, the elephant in the room, I saw what Demetrius Johnson says, because John Jones, the steroid is tied to his name, he can't be in the gold conversation. I don't believe that. I don't believe that he should be considered the greatest ball time. I've said that. You can't, you can't, Shannon, steroids in fighting is much different than anything else in the world. They make you stronger. They make you faster. They give you endurance. Recovery ability when you train. That's what you, that's mainly what steroids do. It allows you to go to there and go hard and go hard tomorrow and go hard the day after

and go hard the day after and go hard the day after. That's when you grow. That's when you become better. Because it gets to a point where you're like, damn, I can't give you everything today. Yes. But you can go back to back to back. And that was me at 36, right? Even though I was the best I could ever be, the best I could ever be.

I'm working as hard as I could ever work in my life. knowing that I have to be ready, at 36, he's 28, right? So he's in his prime. He's in his prime. But that's the fight that he actually tested positive, and they made it in no contest. So while he's doing that, it's like, like you said, he's able to keep up with me work-wise, but exceed it. Because at a point, I got to say, hey, coach, I got to take a morning, man, I need it. I have to take a morning.

And I don't know that he would need to do that. Yeah, so I don't, I don't, uh... Did you suspect at the time when you were in there waiting that there's something that might not be on the up and up? No, no, no, no, no, I didn't suspect. He felt like him. He felt like he was always strong. Right.

He was always strong. He was always big. He was always in shape. It wasn't nothing that surprised me. What sucked was that was that I felt like I moved past it, right? Like, okay, this dude beat me twice. The shit's over. Like, there's nothing I'm going to do to be the champ because if I can't beat him,

nobody else has beat them. I swear to, hey, that's the truth, right? I was like, you know, I ain't beating them. The rest of these dudes ain't beating them because I know how much. Right. Because when I fight the other ones, I destroy him. Right. Right.

Because they don't have the toolbox he got now. Exactly. And plus, he's six five, six four and a half. He's long, long limbs. And he, like, he has it all. I mean, you can, you can need you. If you write a checklist of what you want in a fighter, at 205 to heavyweight, John Jones.

They're talking about the White House. They're talking about the White House fight card. Hey, man, we got to have some Americans win. Yes. I don't like John Jones. There's no secret. The whole world knows it. I say, man, y'all better put John Jones on there.

Because right now, we ain't got one American in the top 10 pound for pound. I say, if y'all want an American dude to go get a victory, put John Jones in there. Because he'll win. That's what he does. Yes. But at the end of the day, I still don't believe, and I agree with DJ. It's like, you just can't have that tied to your name, especially in fighting. Right.

And people call you the greatest of all time. He's the greatest talent. Right. The sport has ever seen. Have we, that's what I was about to ask you. Have we ever seen someone in that sport that possessed the arsenal that he has? No. No, he's by far the, he's by far the most talented person that we've had in mixed martial arts.

In terms of his length, his skills, his mind, he's the most talented guy we've ever had. We've had great fighters. Demetri's Johnson was amazing. Khabib is amazing. But Khabib did it through grit determination and hard work. He wasn't, Kabe wasn't going to run a basketball and shoot it. John Jones,

they got a video of John Jones trying to dunk a basketball. You should see that. That's bad. But obviously, he's an athlete. Look at his family. Yes. Right? You got two brothers playing in the NFL.

Yeah. Yeah. He's the best athlete we've ever had. In terms of the best fighter of all time, I would never give that because of that. Now, he's not the only guy I fought on steroids. I think that before they started doing all that testing, all those guys were doing steroids.

Really? I really do. They just, I mean, many of them had popped for steroids before, and I fought them. And they had figured out the way how to cycle on and off. So cycle on and off or cycle on and off or they just weren't testing. Right. I never took a drug test. until I got into the UFC.

I just went and fought. So I don't know what those guys were doing. There was a guy. They said that this guy got tested positive for something. They said Yusada, who was the testing commission at the time, bro, they got a bit like, I know when they're coming. Right. They would come at 6 a.m. in the morning.

And thus, I did, I got tested 65 times from Ysada, from wrestling to then. But look at me. I'm not on steroids. Yeah. But they were, you're hitting the numbers. I said that publicly one time way back in the day the next time they came to my house at 4 o'clock in the afternoon

so they were watching but because they had gotten like repetitive they heard fighters were doing it one guy popped for something to Shannon they got him at 10 p.m. They said if they were to let him go to bed and wake up the next morning they could have tested him it had been gone 12 hours 12 hours for that to get out of the system it's crazy the level of stuff they have out there well it's just like anything I mean

Yep. They're going to come up with something that's in and out. They got these peptides now. This is good. See? And you didn't think it was going to be. You thought you were going to have all that bite to it. I don't drink.

No, it don't have any bite. I don't have any bite. But the viral video of you finding out that he tests positive and you're just like he was just so broken hard. Hard broken. It's like losing your first girlfriend. I had a girlfriend growing up and me and her went crazy, right? you have sex for the first time. It is all you want to do.

I'm checking myself out of school, man, to go meet this girl. She's checking herself out of school. She's up in the middle of the night on the phone because her mom doesn't let her use the phone. Our parents took us together. They found out what we were doing. They sat us in the front yard

and told us we could not see each other anymore. That made you know what's what it felt like. Let me tell you something. I'm on the city bus getting over that man. I'm telling you my 35 cents, man. I'm going to her. Her house. Who doesn't mama go to work?

And you said it was like that. I will sign a waiver. I want to fight it. Heartbroken because I know how hard I had worked. Again, it was just like Anaheim. I worked so hard to prepare myself. We are, when you're fighting, that's your business partner. Imagine you're playing the Kansas City Chiefs.

And on Sunday, they just don't show up. Think about it. We don't practice all week. They just don't show up. but your game check is tied to them showing up now you're like hey man you're hurting my business I ain't know what the first check

looked like when we fought I want that second check and then by the thing and hopefully we go a third time you know what I'm saying it's like that was the herd of it and then it was UFC 200 man we were on good morning America together

it was big and I was like man we need a it was hard I was heartbroken because it's not just me it was my entire team that worked so hard to make sure I was prepared to fight that night. So yeah, I said

I'll sign whatever I need to. But Dana was like come on. Dano was like, you can't do that. You could tell he didn't want to tell me that. You could tell it was like he was like, can I talk to you? I was like, what do you need me? What do you need? I was staying at the MGM signature because I always stayed like at that small little one on the side.

He goes, can you come over to the arena right now? And I was like, why? I was like, it's two in the afternoon. He goes, I want you to, I have to talk to you. something really important. So I walk over with my team and he's in the back in that hallway and he tells me and he goes, we have to talk to the media.

I was like, damn, everything's in place and I didn't know. I was still just going about my day like I was going to go cut weight to make for the fight. And he was like, you have to address the media. It was horrible. I was up there crying and shit. Yeah, I know.

He was like, man, DZ, what you're crying for? DZ crying. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one. of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast

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So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back40 on IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dan, he's Ty. Hello. And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast. College football season is here, and you know what that means.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Every time, all these these dudes cry. They got me crying multiple times. Did you drive home? From... Or did you fly after you found out that the fight? No, no, no, I fought. I fought. Remember, I fought Anderson Silva two days later.

They got Anderson to fight, yeah, which was good. Actually, I got to fight Anderson Silver, which was awesome. But thank God Anderson said yes. Yes. Not many people would have done it? No, no. Not two days. But it's hard because you're fighting a fight?

Because I've seen people take fights on short notice and kick the other fighter ass because he's not prepared to fight that guy. You prepared to fight a guy with one style and this guy has a different style and you're like, and something bad could have happened. So I was surprised you even took that. So I took the fight because I want, dude,

I wanted to fight bad as you. Like when you want to check. You want the check. You want to fight. You want the check, but you want to fight. Right, right. Because that's what you do. I cut all that weight. I was already 215 pounds.

Like, I don't want to go through all that. Right. And then two months ago, you got to do it again. Right. Because as a champion, I would fight two times a year, max. Right? So I'm like, I don't want to have to go through that again. So I would, I fought Anderson.

And it wasn't a great fight because, again, I was so nervous. Right. Dude, I was in the octagonal. I looked across and I was like, the very first UFC I ever went to, I went to Philadelphia to watch Anderson Silva beat Forrest Griffin. And I mean, Anderson was flexing on him. He's like moving sideways, punching him with one hand forces just falling down. Right.

he finishes the guy that was the UFC Light Heavyweight champion. I was like damn this is crazy I'm fighting Anderson I'm in the octagon I go to the middle when I walk back to the side shake I look behind me and I said oh my God that's actually Anderson Silver Sandel. Like seriously I'm really

fighting a legend I'm really fighting Anderson Silver yeah yeah that was the first I've never had that happen to me in my life it was always somebody's got to die except for when I fought Anderson I was like I don't want to beat this man I got to fight Anderson but then once I got Then I start trying to kick.

No, Jay, I never had that problem. You don't take it easy on. Dan Henderson was my idol. He was on the Olympic team. Yeah. I choke him unconscious. Damn, D. I beat the shit out of him.

Dang. You don't feel bad? Hell no. Somebody got to die. Jay, somebody got to get it, all right? Will you play your brother football? If you play Sterling. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, you want to lose? No, I'm trying to kill him. I'm trying to kill him. And tell him about it afterwards. Yes. John retires. And everybody's like, hold on, bro. You retired, and then two weeks later,

you're talking about you were in protocol again, testing protocol. Yeah, yeah. That pissed you off, didn't it? So when he retired, it didn't, I just wanted him to see him fight Tom Aspinall. I just wanted to see him fight Tom. Aspinall, that good? He good, Shannon.

He literally has everything you want in the heavyweight. He's big, he's physical, he can wrestle, he's fast. Michael Bisping once said to me oh man I'm telling you could be like Muhammad Aliya MMA I said man you're going crazy I said you're a person that works at the company

you're a person that take people take your opinion seriously you cannot be that strong on one side he goes I swear it's true he's fighting a guy named Sergei who had knocked out 10 straight people nobody can go around with Sergey Tom Aspennox knocks him out and around

walks into the thing and hugs Michael Bismic. I was like, I said Bisman, I thought you were like his advocate. You advocating for this dude. But I'm like, he's actually that good. And then he beats up on Curtis Blades. He beats everybody. And so when I think about it, I'm like, okay,

now we get to see John. Because John and I did this thing called Counterpunch, where he sat on one side. I sat on the other with Joe Rogge. And John said, it was so, it was crazy because we just hated each other so much. We were just talking.

Right. John said to me, he said, at the end of the day, I'm better than you because I'm younger. He goes, you can't beat me in the basketball game. I go, well, that's debatable. You cannot swim me. You can't outrun me. He said, because every day you wake up, you're a day older, and you look in the mirror and you see a 36-year-old man. And I look in, I'm in my absolute prime.

I'm 28. He said, you can't be better than me because the laws of life don't allow for a 36-year-old man to be better than a 28-year-old man when we're doing the same thing. Tom Aspinall is 30 now. John Jones is 38. I want to see it on the opposite side.

And he said, well, he should be favored because, you know, he's much younger. And I've heard you and other fighters say, well, you were... The whole time. The older guy gave you an opportunity. You dropped the ladder. So return the favor and give this guy. You don't think there's any chance that John can beat him?

I do. That's the problem. If I had, I said to my, I said gun to my head. If I had to choose, I would probably say John Jones would win. Wow. It's all I've seen him do. I've seen him fight. He's right.

He's, everyone, this is always the next best guy. This guy's going to beat me. This guy's going to beat John. And what does John do? He vanquishes him. He beats him. They said about Gustafson. They said it about Gusman, said it about me, said it about Rashad, said it about Rampage, said it about Cyril Gond.

I mean, he dirtied Cyril Gond up. I mean, the man had been away for 100 years and walked through Cyril Gond like he was, like Cyril gone with me. That was embarrassing, D.C. that was embarrassing. D.C., that was embarrassing. D.C., that's embarrassing. I'd be trying to stay off of Cyril, man, because I like Cyril. You know, when Cyril was on the ground and he looked at him like, I was like he looked like he saw a ghost. He was so in awe of John that he couldn't even. peep with him. I was like, bro. He's about to fight for the world title again.

Imagine if Cyril gone winning John go, okay, okay, I'm back. Yeah. Boy, that'll piss somebody off. That'll piss people off. Because if Cyril beats Tom, because he's, Cyril is that good. He is. He's that good. He could beat Tom Asperon. No, but Dana ain't going to let that happen.

What if John's like, yo, all right? You know, Dana won't let that happen. Dana will not let John come back and fight Cyril gone for the heavyweight title. You're like, That would be the ultimate move of all time. I would laugh at that shit. I would be happy.

Like, John, dude, you'll be cold for that one. Yeah. Okay. You say you can't put John as you go. Give me a Mount Rushmore fighters. Demetri Johnson. Okay. George St. Pierre.

Okay. Kabeep. Kabim was undefeated. Nobody beat him. Fourth. God, that's where it gets tough. That's where it gets tough. Because you feel like you want to put, like,

when we talk about just accomplishments, no one's more accomplished than Amanda Nunes. Right. Can I really put her on the Mount Rushmore of fighting? But George, Demetrius, Khabib, God, there's some good guys. Chuck Liddell was good, man. Chuck Liddell is kind of responsible for us being here.

Randy Couture won two titles in his bracket. I think that fourth place would belong to one of those guys, I think. somebody like that because I can't put I would never put myself up there right right right but I'm like right in that right four to seven range

I thought you might put Anderson Anderson had the Anderson had the steroids yeah right like I can't put Anderson like I would like to put Anderson if I'm saying all those guys included then obviously John and Anderson are on that Mount Rushmore but I don't

do that I refuse it it's not in fighting Barry Bonds was a Hall of Famer before he even went to San Francisco Right Right Yeah Plus he's hitting with a baseball bat He's not punching someone

Right In the face Women fighters What did What did Ronda Rousey Do for MMA Everything for women They know

On record said I will never have women Fighting in the UFC Or something very close to that Then Rhonda came along and she just opened up the floodgates. And now Dana goes, in his life, very rarely does he make decisions where he's like, I really messed up.

He openly goes, Rhonda Rousey coming in and making me take on female fighting is one of the best decisions I've ever made. Because it gave me Amanda Nunes, he gave me Zhang Wei, Valentina Shefchenko. It's like all these women have an opportunity because of Ronda. No Ronda Rousey, like I don't know if women still today fight in the UFC. That's how important she is. Could she have been better? I think she was at the right time also. Right.

The girls just weren't well-rounded enough to compete with her. And when she got somebody that was well-rounding. You saw what Amanda did to her. I saw Holly Holmes. Holly kicked her in the head. That was probably the beginning of the end, wasn't it? Yeah. You know, again, like you know when it's done.

But at the end is when the money gets better than it's ever been. So, yeah. She couldn't have beat him. If she couldn't have beaten Holly, she was not going to beat Amanda. No. but I think it was just such a great pool to have her back that she didn't. You mentioned this, the UFC at the White House.

Dana, look, I was at the, when they had it at the sphere. Oh, you went, huh? I went. It was amazing. It was amazing. And I wouldn't put anything, if Dana said they're going to have a fight on the moon,

I don't know where they're flying to the plane, but it's going to happen. It's going to happen. If he says they're going to have it on the White House lawn, Now, I don't know how they're going to pat everybody down and frisk everybody to do background checks because, and maybe it's just closed circuit and they're really only a handful of staff there. No, no, I think it's going to be an event. They said they want 20,000 in there.

At the White House? At the White House? They got an Easter egg hunt at the White House when they put 28,000 on these things. But them kids. Shannon, I swear to God, I was not believing it until I saw that they have that Easter egg hunt there. I was like, wow, well, then it's possible. Because right now, when Trump goes to a fight, we get background checks. Yes.

The night before they go to the arena, they're sweeping. They're sweeping the morning of the fight. They say before he shows up. I don't know. But I told Dana this recently. We were in New Orleans and I said, you're going to the White House for real. He goes, I said, because you said, we're a year away. Yeah.

He was talking about something on an interview, and he goes, we still got to hear the world's going to change in MMA by that point. I said, you're speaking indefinance. I go, this is happening. Yeah, we're going to go watch a fight at the White House. That's crazy. The rivalries, the marching bands, the upsets, Saturday just got way more fun. College football is back. Thank you, you know the game.

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No, we got to. So you got to put John Jones on there. You got to put John in. Call Calvin. I'm calling him Captain America. Somebody got to win. But Dana don't, but Dana wants for sure things,

knows that guys are going to be. He can count on. I think he's going to fight at the White House. He has to. He has to fight at the White House. Aspenov? I mean I don't know why he won't fight this dude

I said this day if I was still fighting I don't fall Tom Aspinall already I just would have did it like the bigger the challenge the better it's like go prove yourself but I don't know why he'll do it but he might have to fight Tom Aspinall

like you said Dana's gonna make him fight Tom I mean how much money would they need for DC to come out of retirement to White House? Yeah I can't not fight you got 20 million for you I'm still not doing it, shit. I can't train.

I can't train. I go let, dude, I'm doing CrossFit. I was just today practicing how I'm going to do sumo deadlifts. I'm like, I'm doing sumo deadlifts. I'm like, I'm just getting excited to go do my sumo deadlifts. Jay, I can't fight because I can't, I can't. I was sparring the other day. I started a team of guys that I'm training, helping career their career.

I was sparring. One of them punched me in my rib. with a straight right hand. Boom, right here. Dude, it was the most painful shot I'd taken. My rib come out, right? My rib come out. I'm in pain, Shan.

I can't get off my couch. I'm just like, oh. Every time I get off my couch, I'm rolling to my knees to then push up because I can't squeeze my core. Right. Every time I squeeze my core hurts. I go take a nap. I'm just sleeping, I guess, because I'm sleeping rolling.

I sleep, I roll over the top of it, pop it back in place. But I'm like, I couldn't do this every day like I used to. I always had separated ribs or black eyes. I just couldn't do that anymore. This life is too comfortable what I do now. You make good living. You don't need to go punch. I don't want to fight no more, man.

Plus, like, come on, go put some pads on. Go tackle somebody. No, no, no, no. You know what I'm saying? You want to ask me? Two artificial heels, bone, unbowled. I'm good. The pain is too great.

I think that's what people take for granted. Like, how great the pain is that we endure. to do what we did. Right. It sucks. I mean, before I got my hips replaced D.C., I just thought the pain that I was in was normal because I had dealt with it for so long.

Yeah. And you get to, and you're like, okay, this is my new normal. And then the doctor says, no, you don't have to live like that. How much better does it feel? A thousand. Really? I mean, there was no position that I could get in that was comfortable. If I lay down, it hurt.

If I stood, if it hurt. It walked, it hurt. Sitting, hurt. Standing too long, it hurt. There was no position. in which my body didn't hurt. My hips didn't hurt. That's bad.

I got the, I don't have that. Thank God I don't have that. Yeah. Because that shit seems so big. It is. What about, what about Connor McGregor at the White House? Okay, shit.

Man, it's over. It's over for him. It's over, dog. Man, this dude, Conor McGregor, he's tripping. He made too much money, huh? He made way too much. He went from plumbing to making,

He sold that liquor for, what, $500 million? Yeah. It's too much. Right. He got $100 million for fighting Floyd. He got $100 million for fighting Floyd. Then he was doing pay-per-views like nothing. Him and Khab did $2.5 million paper views.

These dudes, he made too much money. Connor says he wants to fight all the time. And everybody kind of, they jump to it. But it's like he wants to stay relevant. Right. He wants to stay in the news. He wants to stay. He wants the notoriety of being Connor McGregor without having to be

Cona McGregor and that kind of sucks because when he was the man, I bet you tapped in. I bet you tapped into the UFC more than ever. Because he could sell a fight. He could sell a fight. He could sell it. Him and Kabee was the best. Did you think he was just

one dimensional and that's why? No, he was good. He was very good. But when they got him on the ground, D.C., he couldn't get up. But they couldn't get him on the ground. Yeah, they did. Khabi got him on the ground. That Khabi was a different person though. Like, Him and Kabe really didn't like each other.

That's perfect. You know, sometimes you're like, oh, we're just selling the fight. But it seemed that it was add, it was a little more to it. Like, he, like, Kabeb sincerely and genuinely did not like her. He hates, he won't say his name still today. He still does not say his name. Because of what he said about his religion and by dad. He still won't say his name.

Last week he did an interview in New York. He says, this guy, he'll never say his name. He hates him. Dude, they're in the octagon. It kind of goes, he whispers after the time. third round after Kabeas B. It's just business. Kabir goes, no it ain't. No it ain't.

You don't mess with them dudes, man. The Russian dudes different. And then when he had, the ref, the ref had to do a little bit extra. DC, you saw that, D.C. He wasn't going to let him go. He was going to put him to sleep, Shannon. He was holding him, and he said, I kicked your ass. I kicked your ass.

And he kind of was like, then he jumped over the fence. Yes. And try to beat his team. He said, I was like, whoa. But, dude, he had him. He was not going to let him go because he felt so, his family got so disrespected by his dude that he wanted to end him. And honestly, sometimes you bite off more than you can chew.

Yeah. Because kind of got beat bad that night. He did. He got beat bad. I mean, but here's the thing that shocked a lot of people. But kind of made Khabib. He really did make Khabib the biggest, a bigger shit. Get fired up, y'all.

Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed. one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiancé Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino.

Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just can't replicate, you can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shi-talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd.

I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eat Eaters podcast network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

Listen to Back40 on Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dan, he's Ty. Hello. And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast. College football season is here, and you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween. Uh-huh, but fear not. The Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss, an impossible comeback.

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Like we talked about me and Jones. He, Kabeeb went from, I think he had two or three million followers on Instagram. The next morning, 10 million. Wow. After that fight and all that happened. Ten million. Crazy.

Seven million a night? That's a big jump. You think Kabe would come out of retirement? Kabeep told me, we did a thing a while back. What Kabe said they offered him $40 million to fight and he said no. He ain't coming back if it. If they offered him 40 million, and he hasn't come back yet, he ain't coming back.

No. No, he's in Dagestan. I bet in Dagestan, you can make a million dollars and be good for the rest of your life. Yeah. Right? In that place. Well, if they offered Khabibh, $40 million,

what did they offer John Jones to fight Aspinall? I think they offered, John said he wanted 30, and I think they got the money. They got 30 for him, and he said, though. They got 30 for me and he said, hey, let me tell you something. I just told you, I'm barbecue meat. 30?

All of a sudden, you don't hurt you? Shit. I might test positive after it's over. What is it about, what is it about Dagestan that the guys that are, they can wrestle? Now, look, I've seen somebody followed somebody like those wrestlers, wrestlers. Yeah. They really, I'm talking about those guys that go to the Olympics, that's a whole different level of wrestling. Yeah, the dudes.

How did they get so good? They just so over there They put them in wrestling They put them in both styles Then at like five, six years old They identify like where are kids going to be better And that's all they do All the way up through school

Kabib and Islam started doing Samba When they were super young Together right Right with his dad So their whole life they did Combat Sambal Combat Sambu was actually like Geetops punching

Yeah grappling like They were essentially doing MMA as like kids Right. And then just keep getting better. I think, I think, I think from my son, right, to have the mentality that I have or had, it's impossible. His life's too comfortable.

Yeah, okay. His life's too comfortable. You and your brother and your children, they can't even make themselves think like you did growing up where you grew up and how you grew up. Right. So it's like they all live like that. Because while Khabib, I want to see Khabib's son and then the next Islam's son. Then we could see how it does over there.

Because for them, it was the way to live. Right. And change all of their lives. Just like us. Yes. Right? It's like, we're almost like desperate. So one of my kids like playing football.

And he's like, I want to do this and I want to do this. I go, well, you got to be at every practice. You got to go with your individual coach. Like, you got to go on Sunday whenever you go do all your speed and agility. Right. You have to get up early in the morning to lift weights. I go because while you are living where you live and how you live, there's a kid like me that's doing the same thing.

But without the fallback of what my dad did to make sure that I'm okay when all this is done. Right. So I don't know that we can, how does Christian McCaffrey, developed the mentality that his father had unless his father came on a whole from home you know Ed

maybe he had a whole bunch of money but I don't know how does he develop that mentality I'm a firm believer when I look at the Mannings Yep Archie Manning

and his and Peyton and Eli they just teach him yeah I mean it's something special for you to for your dad to have

and says no I want to get it see I still have a healthy respect for Brony yes because he's still you know the last likelihood of you having a historically or a transcendent great parent and then the child be equally as transcended and great it's just not going to happen if great king griffy kring griffy senior

was a good baseball player but he wasn't junior no he wasn't bobby barns was an unbelievable player he wasn't barry no no and so to ask kareem had son magic got some to ask their sons they're proud to be just what your day it ain't happening so for the dad for for for for for Ken Griffey Jr. and Barry, their dads were good. Yes. They just weren't them. They weren't them. So the second one was better. Yes. But to ask the next one to be better than the one that's the greatest? Just imagine Barry Bond, son, being Barry Barnes were better. No. It's like Vladimir Guerrero. Yeah. He was really good. But his son now is with the same name.

Yes. With the same name better than his dad. That's crazy. So for him to have another one that does that will be very hard. Right. But, like, so where's, like, where's Peyton's son? Where's Eli's son? Payton said his son went through his camp a couple weeks ago. I saw that. Yes. But is he going to be, it's going to be very, I mean, come on.

It's going to be hard. Yes. Now, Arch. Tom has his son. Yep. But here's the thing. But Archman is good, but he's the other son. Yeah.

It's the other son. Right. So just imagine Tom Brady, Tom Brady's son, Benjamin, being as good as Tom. God ain't even to bless you like that, bro. I'm sorry. He ain't been to bless you like that. I don't think so, man. It's hard.

Yes. But even for LeBron James Jr. Yes. LeBron James Jr. Yes. To be in the NBA, it's nuts. And then to have another one that's supposed to be even better than the other one. Yes.

But to expect them, and I think the thing is sometimes. LeBron's done everything right. Yes. But to expect a child. to be LeBron or Kareem son to be him or Magic Son to be him. Come on, bro. That's not going to happen. LeBron James Jr., if he can go in the league for 10 years,

that to me would be astounding. Because, and he will, he will. Yes. But to be in there 10 years after what your dad did, with all that pressure, from the moment he picked up a basketball, there was pressure on him. Because the expectation you got to be. Because everybody knows who your dad is.

My son would wrestle and I would see people. my kid just beat D.C.' son. I'm like, but if my son, it's not, you didn't beat me, right? I just beat D.C.'s boy. I had Kim Griffey Jr. on, and when his son, Trey, was coming up, he played baseball, and the people in the stand would say, he ain't his dad, and his dad would say, name five people who are. Who?

Ooh, I like that. So what would they say then? They couldn't say anything. I mean, you got one, you know, he was an MVP. I mean, he did everything. Yes. He's one of the greatest, he's one of the greatest players. I mean, the sweetest swing ever, six under home.

Come on. He ain't going to be him. No. It's okay. But the kid has to accept that. Yes. That is okay. And a lot of people, you were having a, we were having a conversation about my brother.

I embraced it. See, I never lived in the shadow. I embraced it. Every number he had, I got the exact same number. He was three in high school I was three in high school He was two in college He was two in college

He was 84 I was 84 Every car that he had I got So I never looked at like And when people told me I mean you're not going to be like your brother Watch watch

Watch me Watch but not many people have that Yeah Yeah they shy with me Not many people have that dog in them like that Like there's a dog about that mentality that most people don't have Yes

Especially a kid that wakes up And he's sleeping in a beautiful home With everything he had ever want in his life like it's hard for that kid to go yeah my kid gets up in the morning at 630 3 days a week and he lifts weights right my kid does wrestling practice at 2 o'clock in the afternoon then he goes to football practice at 5 30 in the afternoon he does that 4 days a week then on sundays he meets with it with his private coach to do football training right where he does speed and agility right he catches passes he goes through his coverages and his reads right for me

that's my son going Dad I want to try to do something great I say pop If it works Awesome if it doesn't You gave yourself a chance You took advantage of every Opportunity you had

Everything that we have accrued You use to try to better yourself Right if it works great If it doesn't you never skipped out on the work Right that's all I care about And I'm fine with that And maybe it does maybe it doesn't But he's giving himself a chance

even though he doesn't have to. Right. That's what I love. Good. How did you and Khabi become such great fans? That's my boy right there, man. He walked into the gym. He walked into the gym by himself.

King Mola Wall brought him from New Jersey. He wanted to come and train with all the wrestlers. Barely spoke a lick of English. Walked in the gym, stayed at an extended stay America, right up the street from A.K.A. And he would walk back and forth by himself from the hotel to the practice. And on his first day, I was like, oh, a little Russian kid, because I spent a lot of time there when I was wrestling. We started kind of talking a little bit, and it just, it grew.

And then I just understand how much of a, he's like a really good human being. He's a good person, real strong values, and he's the best. I think he's the best fighter ever. Really? I do. Yeah, I do. I saw a kid that came in there with limited strength. striking. He told you exactly what he was going to do every single time. And he did it.

He was beating Michael Johnson up one time telling him, brother, you know I deserve a title fight. You need to give up. You need to give up. Like, that's how dominant he was. And he started in the pocket with a Connor and knock Connor down. Knocked him down. After Connor had box Floyd Mayweather for nine rounds. He stood with him and knocked him off. Yeah, I think he's the best man. I think he's, he just stands for something so much bigger than just fighting. And I think he, like, I think he, I think he, I think he, I think he obviously elevates the people around him, which is very important. But he also is like a, he's like a guiding light for a lot of people that follow him. Right.

And he does things the right way. Right. There's this viral clip going around that he refuses to shake this lady's hand out of respect for his wife. Yep. And for his, his religion. And if you know his religion, that's, that's the way it is. That's the way it is. Right?

But not many men are willing to do that, especially in that moment. Right. Right. Kate Scott. Kate Scott. She's a great analyst. Yes. But I think the reason it got so odd was because that kid reacted the way that he did. There was a YouTube kid that was up there with him.

And he kind of was like, oh, my God, like speed. I show speed. And the way he acted was like because he shook everyone's hand. But then he just politely said, and then I'm pretty sure he explained it to her afterwards. Yes. And then, but again,

it's live, it's live TV, right? Things happen. But that's respect to his wife. And then I was honestly, respect to Kate.

It's actually a respectful gesture to the person. Right. You're refusing to shake hands because he has a married man should not shake the hand of another woman. Wow. What separate Russian fighters from American fighters? I don't think that,

I don't think that, I don't think that is much more to it than just the, the the that that need to change their lives yeah right their need they mean even even even not not I'm not talking homeless like I'm not talking like transient people that are living on the street but even our upbringing even mine where I lived in a small house after small house when I was younger yeah then my parents did all they could to move us into a big house to where they bought their first house for $10,000. It wasn't a great house, but it was theirs.

That's still better than what they have over there. They're like, it's all concrete, just concrete stuff. So, yeah, it's like, I think it's just that mentality of need to get better that it allows for those guys to kind of just elevate themselves a little more. Because even my upbringing, and I thought that I had it tough, was better than what they have there. and you know what people are willing to do to change their lives. For sure.

Yeah. This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part 2 is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to Part 1 on. Just simply go back to Club Shet Shay Profile and I'll see you there. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eat Eater's podcast network.

Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting. and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We don't just love college football tie. We live it. Check out Behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club. San Diego coming to MLS is going to be a game-changer. because this region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team. We need to embrace this community. Listen to San Diego FC, Behind the Flow, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Get fired up, y'all. Season 2 of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were like riding the lime bikes the other day, and we're like, we're like, people ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more.

So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.