Club Shay Shay - Club Shay Shay - Dave Portnoy Part 1

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Dave Portnoy On Cancel Culture, Kanye West, Skip Bayless, LeBron, Tom Brady, Taylor Swift, Celtics, Patriots, Barstool Sports & Call Her DaddyIn Part 1 of this episode of Club Shay Shay, Shannon Sharpe sits down with Dave Portnoy—founder of Barstool Sports, one of the most influential figures in modern sports media. A business trailblazer and digital powerhouse, Portnoy—known as “El Presidente”—is a University of Michigan alum who turned a small free sports newspaper into a multi-platform empire now valued at over half a billion dollars. An outspoken personality, social media icon, and pizza aficionado, Dave built Barstool Sports into a cultural movement by doing things his way—and never backing down.Portnoy breaks down how he started Barstool as a free newspaper in Boston, why he named it "Barstool," and how being high school classmates with ESPN’s Todd McShay shaped part of his journey. He explains how Barstool capitalized on raw, unfiltered media, his admiration for Bill Simmons, and how his love for gambling played a key role in shaping the brand’s voice.We explore his Massachusetts roots, how the company exploded in popularity among college audiences, and how Barstool grew to surpass legacy networks in social media dominance. Portnoy opens up about firing people publicly, and working with big names like Wallo267 and Gillie, Pat McAfee, Coach Jon Gruden, Bussin’ With The Boys, and Alexandra Cooper of Call Her Daddy. He also talks about the fallout with Cooper and Caleb Pressley, the future of sports media, and why he’s always hunting for the next big star. Plus—his take on Jon Gruden saying Roger Goodell “hates football.”#volumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Shaq with Angel Reese when he's like, I want to see her playing in her underwear and like run up and down. If I said that, I'd be in jail. Oh, yeah, for sure. In jail. That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life All my life been grinding all my life Sacrificed, but so paid the price Want a slice, got the rolling dice That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life

Hello, welcome to another episode of Club CheChe. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club CheChe. Stopping by for conversation on a drink today is one of the most influential people in modern sports. He created a company that's now worth more than a half a billion dollars, a pioneering force in the new age of digital media, a business mogul and a trailblazer, a media magnet and an icon, a social media media star and an influencer, a bold, no-filter media star,

outspoken personality, a powerhouse spokesman, host, producer, writer, director, philanthropist, a piece of aficionado, a University of Michigan alum, a wealthy entrepreneur who built a multi-platform empire, founder, founder, and operator, owner, sports and pop culture company, Barstool Sports El Presidente, Dave Poitnoy. Quite the intro, thank you. Appreciate you, man. Yeah,e, they point no quite

the intro. Thank you. Appreciate you man. I appreciate that. I like that. Bro, I got it. I got it. We got a toast, bro. I got to toast you man. For you to be able to do what you've done. I mean, for you to have the vision and to see it through. Cheers. Cheers to you. Cheers. I said I wasn't gonna drink this, you know, I don't like any but I'm doing it. None of this better. But I let you tell me for

yourself. I probably won't have it for a little time after this. Let's say that. Like, I'm more on like the high noon speed but when in Rome. Do it as the Romans. Yeah. Bro, thank you. You built Barst stool into a half a billion dollar empire started off doing four page newspapers which is a dying dynasty how did you have the vision in the force thought to do what you did so I got I didn't have the vision I just didn't want to hate my job when I woke up okay I knew I want to hate my job when I woke up.

I knew I wanted to try my own thing. But if Barstool, if I was making 60 grand a year working for myself, I would have been happy. But anyone who said they had vision back then is probably lying because we started as a newspaper before MySpace existed, Facebook, TikTok. So for anybody to know what the internet was going to be, they're lying. We were just always really quick and kind of moving and following trends, but I had no idea what would turn into this.

You handed out newspapers on the subway platforms, street corners of Boston, yelling at people. How many papers did you think you handed out a day? Probably five to 10,000. We had a circulation of 30,000, probably at the height. the height so I'd wake up you see it any city corner and Just hawking papers outside the garden. I grew up in Boston cell station subways just working cuz a lot of time people get they get taken in Throw it on the ground. Oh that happened Count that if you took it that yeah

I'm a ended up reading but if you took it, that counts. Yeah. You didn't ask how many ended up in the reading. But if you're going on the subway, right, and you're just looking for anything to read, so you get as many hands on it as you can. Todd McShay started out as one of your earlier writers, and you custom built websites, and the newspaper went digital. How did you know that, Todd, how did you decide who you were going to pick to write and who you were going to start staffing? So I went to high school with McShay. Oh, okay Hard-ass choice. Yeah, I was in his wedding. So

We weren't paying anybody when we started. Okay, he got involved in sports before I did So he already he was already I maybe just starting on ESPN a little bit. So he just helped on the side, right? Wow, so Is it true that you started putting women on the cup, bikinis on the cover, and that's when the newspaper kind of took off? That is true. So there was a photographer in Boston, he's like, have you ever thought about putting,

Maxon was huge at the time. Yes, yes, they used to have big parties at the Super Bowl, I don't know if they still do that now. They still do it, I think it's gone down. But not to the level, okay. Yeah, back in the day, Maxon was like the it party. He was. Yeah, so he reached out to me the photographer he's like have you ever thought of putting local women Maxon

you put there at sled yes so we started putting yeah I'm like no I haven't but if you want to do the photography for me do it knock yourself out and he came over did it it was a local girl well that started getting people's attention I'm like let's do it again and that kind of You know what it really did for us back in the day like Bud Light Miller light They they they paid no attention. I started barstool and like oh, we'll get all sports advertising We didn't when they saw pretty girls Like if you know where the girls are the guys will follow so it actually opened doors advertising wise

Wow, I read that you had models handing out the newspapers, started having models hand out the newspaper. Before that you had homeless people actually handing out the newspaper. Yeah so the first first week we launched Homeless People. Labor Ready was the name of the company and I was driving around and they were just drunk not paying attention. They didn't do they didn't do anything so we fired them after one week and then I'm like you know what if I if you're a guy walking off the subway Would you take a burn a pretty girl or a homeless person right pretty girls? So we lasted that for maybe a month. So put girls in little jerseys and handed them out

Doing that process what did that teach you about advertising? Well, that wasn't rocket science. It didn't teach me anything about I knew I I knew guys like pretty girls like yeah you're gonna take a newspaper so it didn't teach me really anything about that it was just really expensive to do it but you know that that was no lesson but let me ask you quick to ask you this have you listened to your fan base over time because you said the pretty girl pretty the guys follow the pretty girls wherever guys are that means advertisers are gonna come because those are the guys that drink the beer, eat the, you know, take the products, or do whatever.

Yeah, I have listened to, it's a fine line because I'm sure you know, the people who hate you and don't like you are often the loudest. Yes. Like, you suck at this, you're not good at that. So I don't let that bother me, but the beauty of what we did,

and in a newspaper and more internet, it's like the internet doesn't lie you see the numbers they're going up so I'll always follow that as much as people like the chirping and noise somewhat I trust my gut a lot. How did you know not being politically correct you could win doing that? Now over the last decade but Barstool is way older than a decade. How did you know that not saying, not doing always the right thing could be a win for Dave? Yeah, so that's how I am.

Like I'm this maybe Northeast like Boston. I'll say, do whatever and I'm fine. I'll stand on two feet and stand with it. Right. It really wasn't intentional. Like it's just me being me and us being us. But we did get to a point where we built this loyal following. And it's like I knew I had them. And if we were honest with the audience, they'd follow us anywhere. So that was always

an advantage. And that means there's a lot of people out there that doesn't want to be politically correct, that have to be politically correct, but they have someone that you know what, he's not politically correct, I like him. I like what he's doing, I like what he's saying. So we always have the advantage, I didn't have a boss. Like, so you know, if you're in a corporate world, it's great to think one way, want to be, but if your boss is like, you know what,

you're gonna get fired, you can't do it, that's a lot of different pressure. We didn't have it, and we didn't belong, we weren't beholden to advertising. That was also huge. So advertisers can be like, hey, you got to watch what you say. We had early barstool, our money was coming from our audience, selling t-shirts, doing events. So we didn't care if an advertiser is like, we're going to drop.

It's like, all right, see you. We're like, we're going to just keep doing us. There were not a whole lot of models out there that you could follow. So who did you look up to to say, you know what, I kind of like their business model. I kind of like the way they do things. The early guy who I looked up to is Bill Simmons. So I'm a Boston guy. Yes, this is before he went to ESPN. His writing style was more like this is interesting. I reached out to him trying to get him invest in varsity will be part of it. Obviously never happened. But

it wasn't so much a business model. Like I came from a business side. So I was always like, if I can sell ads, do this, I just want to enjoy my life. But I wasn't looking around and be like, that's the model. I think we became the model, not on purpose. But there wasn't much like us. Well, I was kind of thinking he was going to say Howard Stern,

because he would kind of say it. He would do it. Yeah, and we do get compared to that. I never looked I was never a big Stern fan Okay growing up so what but we get that comparison and got it throughout the years all right You know, I heard that you're kind of like a combination between ESPN and Playboy. Is that a is that a fair assessment? Yeah, it's an interesting assessment I mean we have we have we have the TNA. I mean, ESPN, I think ESPN has moved more more probably to our side of the street in terms of like letting people fly. And even like I saw, you know, when you and like, no, it was Stephen A.

No, it was you and Herbie going at it. Like, that's Barstool. Right. Like, well, let them fight it out. Let it in. I couldn't even tell him, like, do these guys really not like each other? Is this like a show? That's Barstool. Let it in. I couldn't even tell him like do these guys really not like each other Is this like a show that's barstool even even teammates? Oh, I like it like a bar stool I'm feeling like and we're gonna get into this later like when you had Bustin with the boy you had part of my take you had this one in that one and you all know one umbrella

I see us see us as teammates you would let them take shots. Oh my god. We each other a lot The most vicious shots are internal. Okay, and like I mean I just got here Like I just watch a tale of the one clip at the Super Bowl and he's talking to Patrick Mahomes He's like, hey, we're leaving Barstool. They are leaving. Yeah, and he's like so you'll come on our podcast right now I mean to me I'm that to me is like he he let he basically put Patrick Mahomes in his mouth like He basically was like let me roll over pet your belly and I'll go out we go at each other But that it's and it's really people think it's fake in the end, but we're all one team

But yeah, we attack each other. Is it true that early advertisers basically they were offshore Illegal betting sites that weren't illegal in America. So you like reached out and got those dollars. So I've always loved gambling. So before I saw Barstool, I actually flew to Vegas, interviewed in casinos, like how do I get in this industry? And I used to bet. So I talked to these offshore casinos and you know,

how do I get involved? They said, create the newspaper, we'll advertise in it. And that was the early advertising We had that got us like when we launched no girls. No nothing It was just really fantasy sports that type of thing it allowed we pre sold the ads right here two years party poker And we morphed after that but yeah that that was our early advertising. Did you ever get frustrated? Did you ever think that this possibly couldn't work? I went I got a job about six years in.

I took a sales job, drove, worked there at lunch. I'm like, I cannot, I can't do barstool and give it a chance and do this. So one day lunch, drove home, never went back. But I mean, I wasn't, we didn't make money for a decade. Right. Really? Yeah. So how did you get by?

Grinding. Like I moved in with my in-laws. Okay. We had no rent. Like in just paycheck to paycheck trying to survive. But it was literally like nothing. At the time, did your wife like, Dave? She made me get the job.

She made me get the job. To her credit, she stood by me and it always felt in my gut, this thing's like there's something here. Yeah. But to turn the corner and actually do it took a long time. Did you create fake, Frank ads? Yeah.

To get rival company? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was early. Like Morton's Steakhouse, I put in a rival, like Fleming's, Morton's. Ruth's Chris. Yeah, they call, and the actual place would call me, like it was Fleming's. There's a steakhouse in Boston,

they'd be like, we didn't advertise in your paper, why are you in there? It's like, oh, my sales guy quit. I don't know what happened. And then we take it out. But the thought was, hey, if Morton sees Fleming's, the Mortons just want to get in there. So yeah, we did that. I would do anything.

I would do anything to try to get somebody in the paper. But you also created fake emails with extra people like, hey, we got a big ass staff. Correct. So do you want someone to advertise? I know that I'm the head writer, I'm the founder, I'm the sales guy, I'm the marketing guy. So I like 10 different aliases. Yeah.

Oh my goodness, man. But it seemed like you had a plan. Even though it wasn't successful early, you had a plan and you had a fortitude to stick to it-ness that you know what? It's going to click. I just got to give it time. Yeah. I keep going back and some people say I'm being a humble, I thought it was working.

Did I ever dream it would be something like this? I think I'm a smart enough guy and a way to monetize. And if you really hustle and work your ass off, you can probably carve out some sort of living for yourself. Did I know that the internet would hit right when I needed it to hit? Did I know that social media would hit right when I needed to hit? Did I know that like social media would hit and things like right time right place right guy all those things How much would you say it cost you to start Barstool? Oh, I'm always not much maybe 30 grand max

That's for I had to buy the racks. That was the only expense or even racks to put the newspapers in let me ask you a question How did you start? How did you come up with the name barstool? So parcel sports was supposed to mean and this is early internet 1.0 I look for websites that were allowed it's supposed to mean anything that a guy would talk about sitting at a bar watching sports Okay, that was what it's supposed to mean. So I went through like ten names That was the one that was available Did anyone invest in barstool besides Besides yourself early on, maybe your parents, maybe siblings or anybody like that?

Parents helped with the news racks and that was it. And we had no outside money till 2016. We started 2004. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's a very long time not to make a whole lot of money. A lot of people probably after 12 years

gonna give it up there. Yeah, I mean, we started around by 2016 we were doing pretty well but yeah it I had a normal job again I would rather work for myself not make as much and then hate waking up and hate what I did. So you didn't you didn't really turn a profit you started in 2004 so you kind of turned a profit in 2010 maybe 11 around there. So you started making good money. I mean, it's not no retirement money. No, good enough. We did a concert tour in 2010.

We had a kid who is Sam Adams was his name. He was like a kind of local rapper basically guy. And we had never been outside of Metro Boston. We did a 10 tour of colleges like URI, UMass. We were going to frat basements. I basically wanted to see, do people know who we are? Yeah. UMass, the Mullins Center, they called me,

and they're like, hey, what is this concert you're doing? Keep in mind, I'm going to a frat basement to do it. They're like, we're getting calls for this concert you're doing. It's like, yeah, I don't know, we're going to a frat. They're like, what do you ever think of doing it in the arena? It's like, I can't afford that, we won't do it.

It's like, well, what if we set it up away, very little risk? Said, if you're willing to do it, fine. We sold out in five minutes, like sold the arena. It's like, I can't afford that, we won't do it. It's like, well, what if we set it up away, very little risk? Said, if you're willing to do it, fine. We sold out in five minutes, like sold the arena out. That was when it kind of clicked. It's like, there may be something going on here that I'm not totally aware showed up these campuses, signs on the roof, it was crazy.

So let me ask you a question. When did you know Barstool could become a legit company? That you know, I got something? Probably that tour around the 2010 2011 and then I'm probably making seven figures by 2012 2013 it was hard like if you want to advertise with us you almost had to know somebody like when weren't selling you had to fight like I remember we had we're in this fantasy space and the gambling draft. I've had DraftKings. I met with like the founders of DraftKings way back when FanDuel and you had to know somebody to get me on the phone because we

were just happy. We were like, all right, we're doing well. We're, we're happy with where we're at. But around then I knew we were here to stay. How did you develop this loyal rabbit fan base? Day after day. So when we started the company, I used to base? It's day after day. So when we started the company, I used to blog 10 to 15 times a day. Like every 45 minutes, something new up. We're on top of sports, on top of everything.

And you just build a trust with your audience. If they're seeing you every day, they start just becoming almost like your friend. Like, I see our fans, they think they know me. So you just build that up over decades, you get a very loyal core audience. So basically you would say that college is where you kind of like grew.

It's like when you did this little college tour and you went to UMass and you had that arena and you sold it out. So you would say probably college, would you say college kids early 20? Yeah, it was everything. So I started this thing was like 25 26 Okay 47 now so

It spans all ages and different people's their lives like we have people have kids We have new college kids just depends where you get us. I think that they were college kids, but their husbands and fathers now Yeah, it's everything and even like when I started as a young professional, right? There's a lot of people who just and now went to the workforce and like that What do you think college kids read? Why does bar stool resonate so much with college kids? I don't really know. I mean We were talking about college age. We were doing like raves at college parties. And I mean even now we have like Handles on social media

that just cover that college but obviously they like unfiltered and we're unfiltered. Right. Frat parties you had concerts were you in a frat? For about 10 seconds at Michigan so I wasn't big into the hazing part. Yeah right. I like the Russian part of it when they're kissing your ass and what turns into like go get me a Beer, that's not really me. So I didn't I did I was going quick How do you know but you didn't want to be a part of that? But how did you know the fraternity culture so well? I Didn't I mean the fraternity I and sometimes people say different. I don't know. That's fraternity Culture as like human nature like guys like hot girls guys are going out to try to get laid like a lot of

that is part of what we were doing talked about in parties but it was everything I mean we talked just as much about that as anything else it seems like yet what I don't know if you still feel this way that you were the director the antithesis of what ESPN how did you know to like create something say you know what whatever they do, we're gonna do the exact same thing. It wasn't on purpose, like that, you know, I guess people may look at, I mean ESPN,

we've been doing it for so long, ESPN's actually changed a bunch of times, probably since we've been doing this last 20 years. It wasn't, they're just more buttoned up. And in early Barstool, anybody who came from a network to us We had some issues with because they they needed a producer to tell them to say this and that and we don't do that Right. You're your we hire people we think talented let him run wild off the cuff. Yeah, it's like You know, we're not gonna tell you what to say and you're gonna love what you're talking about

So it wasn't we weren't trying to be the different and I had no problems with ESPN until we had problems with ESPN because you look at ESPN they got fancy studios guys are normally buttoned up they're normally you know suit tie you guys are in very informal very casual t-shirts yeah blue jean shorts hey hey I'm more interested in what you say not what you wear. That was always your... So I heard a story that ESPN once had a meeting about us when we were on a come up, and it's like, how do we be more authentic? Like Barstool's like, well, you lost.

Like you're having a meeting on how to be authentic. There was nothing, I'm not planning what my studio looks like, that's what my life looks like. So it's just, we didn't think about that. We didn't care about fancy cameras. We didn't have fancy cameras. We had idiots.

And it almost, the bigger we got, the more I had to keep an eye, like we don't wanna look polished like ESPN. Like that's not who we are. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean we wanna do it. That wasn't an early thought. Is Pardon my take a playoff pardon the interruption first take. So you got pardon and take and so boo boo. ESPN so

stupid they sued us first day. They went through sent the cease and desist best thing they could have done for us. It was a hundred percent a mash of that. Like that's what we're doing. And then we posted you know. Oh you posted it. Of course. That's the worst thing you could do. Just send the letter idiots Why because you're gonna post it and then all of a sudden everybody's gonna let well, let's see what's going on Yeah, they couldn't again. We've had that multiple good dells been one, but that was perfect Yeah, and in a weird way it it was like tipping our hat to them You know it's like an homage to that right, but yeah, they see they sent that letter right away

Do you think sports media is taking itself too seriously? I? They sent that letter right away. Do you think sports media is taking itself too seriously? I do. I think it's changed. Like, again, I think a lot of things, it's much more free flowing. But yeah, generally sports media people, I think there's a double standard.

Let's say the Flakegate, right? One of my cornerstone. That's in your craw. Yeah, that's one of my cornerstone events events and they're killing Brady and I remember Sal pal He's does he's on CNN or what? I mean ESPN acting like this is like world news being like Tom Brady is an UG salesman Women buy UG's they're not gonna buy UG's if they don't trust them. It was so dumb So I went to media day and I

see Sal Pal and I take my mic and I'm like Sal Pal, what'd you say about Tom Brady and Uggs? No, no, no. I don't talk to the media. I don't talk to the media. It's like you are the media. Like it, that double standard drives me crazy. Like you're going to talk about people. Media are celebrities now, no different than the athletes. How have you been able to surpass Sky Sports, Fox Sports, and social media following? Because we're born from the internet. Like, we're probably the first digital media company.

Like, who are the heads of Fox? How old are they? What do they look like? We're all young guys. Who we hire, they come with a proven internet record. You don't get to us unless you're, like I've been looking at crypto, I don't understand it because I'm too old

and it's like hard. If you have a crypto guy who's probably older than 25, like he's probably not a great crypto guy, right? So if you look at the internet, these are network guys who have come up doing it the same way, same playbook, same everything. We had no playbook, we were figuring out as we went. Do you believe that's the mistake that linear is making

is because those guys came up in linear, they don't understand deep digital, they don't understand social, kind of like these, say, 23 to 30-year-olds? 100%. Like, even, I mean, eventually things will change, but like if you look at a NFL game Why does everything look identical on the sets eventually it'll but the same way they've been doing it a hundred percent

They're just this is how you do it. This is the way to do it. We're not gonna change We know more so a hundred percent. What do you think the future of sports media is is it more what you do hundred percent? I mean look at you Is it more what you do? 100%. I mean, look at you. Yeah. I mean, if you would think that you could say some of the things that you say, whether it be not on the main network and then go on ESPN, that's a relatively recent development

in my mind that you can have that. And they're letting them. Even like Stephen A with his own, that didn't happen not too long ago where you just wanted to see it. Right. Was your goal always to create a media company Yeah, no, uh, yeah. No, it was to first it was to have a job that I liked waking then we got to a degree of success It's like what do we want to do here is Boston replica? Replica can I hire other guys and create the success in Boston and then it it became a media place where it's like, let's try to create other personalities, which I think for my money, obviously, I'm biased, my company, I think we've in this

new last 20 years created probably the greatest stable or biggest. Like if you brought back everybody, whether it's McAfee, Alex Cooper, you busting with the boys, obviously are leaving. You have Wallo and Gilly, me, Dan, like we have A-list people who've come from the internet. Jenna Marbles, who a lot of, you know who that is? Jenna Marbles was like internet 1.0, like she was the first YouTube girl. So we've launched massive stars. And at some points, like I think we have the platform that we can do this and no one else is trying to do it like McAfee's an example like no one hired his ass out of

Coles no one wanted him. What have you learned about building a media company? I mean can if somebody say you know what Dave we need you to get University of Michigan called today we want you to teach a class on how to go about building a media company how to build a conglomerate. I got no clue. Honestly, I think what we've been good at and what I've had an eye for and they're not all runs. It's like a band, almost like a record label model. Like you're going to miss, but if you can get some hits,

we have a good eye for talent, whatever that may like unique people. Like if I see something, I'm like, do I look, do I click off of it in a second, or do they have me for 10 to 20? And if they do, that generally means there's something there. Like you're just interested in what's going on. How many employees, shows, personalities do you think you employ at Barstool? I think about 400 right now. Total.

Wow. Yeah. Did you ever think you could grow a company to have 400 employees? No, I don't even know. It's just, we got bloated a little bit, but we have a lot of stuff going on. Well, how do you manage, because you said, you look, you are who you are. How do you manage so many different personalities?

We have different people who help, but the personality, that's the word. The talent business sucks. I won't recommend that for anybody. That's one of those things when you ask me what I thought. But I mean We're in the business of building stars and then having them turn around and be like hey We want a quadrillion dollars and you can't afford it's like a sports team SNL model or something like that Like your agent there Michael Klein. I think he owes me his whole life

Being honest like without me he doesn't exist. so you might need to invest in his business. Yeah I'd like to know how he runs that business, but it's uh You let people be themselves. Okay, we try to see if they rise above like if they start getting traction We just give them whatever they want resources. You want to fly to you know, I remember we have these two guys they started there for there for a week and to you know I remember we have these two guys they started there for a week and they wanted poor Zingas like we want to go find his family and where the f**k is he from? Lithuania yeah they flew to Lithuania. Latvia somewhere like that. Yeah I had no idea what they're doing so we just let the creators create and try to put the resources behind them and then

we let the internet decide it's like all right you guys like them or not? How would you describe your workplace? Chaotic, competitive, petty, all those things. You mentioned like, OK, I'm watching this person, whether or not I want to hire him. Does what I hear him or her speak click speak click move on or do they like okay I might have something it's that and I don't even have to like it it's just like I haven't really seen this he's just caught my attention for whatever reason he's saying things I haven't heard yeah that that really is it and it's rare but it, and again, you can be wrong plenty of times, but there's

just something there. It's like, why am I staying more than that one second almost to see what's going on here? Why are you okay with firing people publicly? We do everything publicly. Who did I fire publicly? You get it. I mean, you, I mean, I don't know if I could be the type of boss you are, Dave. I mean, you cut, because you cut, I think I'm a little bit more compassionate than you are.

I'm trying to think, who did I fire? Who did I fire? I'm not looking for my guy. Who did I fire publicly? Francis. Francis? I tell people that fired, yeah. But I don't know if it's like, everything we do is public. So like, if you've gotten to the point where you got fired by me, you armed it. Yeah. And I'll publicly do, I'll do anything public. Don't come to my, like if you're in my world, you got to content everything, everything's fair game. What is your response when people say, man, they don't

pay enough, man. They need to break bread. I mean, you know, he getting the whole loaf and he passing out crumbs. Oh people full Find me that person who said that and that that like I mean you'll have certain things We've had a cut like caller daddy. I there do you know that is I do Alex. So yeah, she's turned into a monster We found her nothing. She's nobody we Signed the two of them to a hundred grand Each right her and Sophia thing exploded six months later, they're up to 500 grand. They signed a three year deal.

You can go be billionaires when you're, like, that's what we do. Like, we don't own you after, go make all, but the peanuts thing. Why don't you like, sign them to a three year deal, maybe like a year in, year and a half in, say, hey, let's redo this deal. We were redoing the deal.

They're tough to deal with. You've got athletes, same way, holdouts, this, their talent, and they look at it, and your talent looks at it. Hey, I got a strike when this is hot. They don't give a f*** about us. We pay as good, I think, as any media company, and I mean, while I'm gilly,

they're crying, popping bottles with how much they're making. Alex got 60, McAfee's making tens. We pay. That's the biggest misnomer in the world. Y'all pay? We pay. Pay pay. Pay pay. I mean you're huge. How much? I'm a free agent. Let me, alright. I'm just, David, I'm just throwing it out there. We don't have to negotiate publicly, but I'm just saying I'm free When he's free when you want me to be free, are you really free? Yeah What do you mean like when you're on like I know parole no probation that I'm free free You're probably very expensive right now. Our model generally is the reverse. We find the guys, build them up, and then they leave, as opposed to getting them at the top,

because you pay the premium. I don't know what you coming to us, for example, we're not going to make you bigger. You're huge. So our secret sauces, if you're talented, will make you huge. But you'd be good on our networks What have you learned about negotiating I I'm not a big negotiator

You say to you or you were taking a leave you type of guy I have a price that I know works for us and it and if it's not good enough Like what are you gonna do like the bussing guys just you know three years 30 million from Fandl that that's more than we can do so Good luck you good. We you great relationship, but I'm happy for them. I know Three for thirty huh yep, was I not even supposed to sound you 40% they got they got the bag let me ask you question. How do you go about structuring your deals? Okay, you find somebody clearly when you offer them. They're not making that money So somebody's gonna give me a minute a man guarantee

MG hundred thou plus I mean 80 20 90 10 as far as revenue with ads That's that's a lot of money to a person that's making 30,000 so most of the most of the time we do it there there They're not as huge, but we'll do, they're full-time employees for us. So we basically own your IP, and it's no different than a sports contract. You signed for a certain amount of years,

you can have incentives, we're happy to rip off if you're doing good. At the end of the contract, if we can't pay what you want, then you can go get a better deal, which is exactly, Buston's the perfect example, Alex's, McAfee. They're one after another. Well, you got a talent. I mean, you have an eye. I mean, you'd have a hell of a GM for

this space. Oh, you can't you don't think you could pick sports stars? I mean, it's a different thing. I that that listen, I'd love to like own a team and try it but uh, yeah for this space Yeah, like even when you start popping off like I didn't know where's that? There's just something that in this credit to you. You like all that. I'm not looking away here. There's like something going on. Mm-hmm Who do you think the next big sports star in media is Who so what level who do we say is like? A real unknown, yeah. It's hard. I don't know all the people I know of are known if

they were unknown. I try you know, I would have a yeah, I mean we just hired Gruden. Yeah, who was already top of the game and obviously had fellow. He's a monster. He's here right back at the top. he's just unbelievable he gets it gets it he could talk he can talk he's somebody you don't want to look away and I've met about it to different people through him it's like they don't have it like you can see why he got where he did and he can tell stories they need people that can tell stories and captivate like again yeah turn the channel yes guy or not right you mentioned gruden you know he had a hundred million dollar contract that got i think they're in mediation

right now trying to get that resolved because you know he got you got let go i think he has still like six seven years on the deal so they're trying to figure that out so how do you go to a john gruden because you know he got x amount of dollars is it a situation where you know he likes to talk he has something to say and you want to give him that platform in order to say it? Yeah so for him he started putting out videos so and I just saw it and right away I'm like oh my god like again I'm not turned away and we reached out or like would you ever be interested in talking flew out to Orlando actually met him, hit it off and and he was to go. I think he was ready to just get back in this world.

Right. Are you afraid of losing him to coaching? I'd be stunned if he's not an NFL coach sometime against. I don't think he's going to be like tomorrow, but the guy eats, lives, bleeds football. So I think that's what he loves. Let me ask you this. There are some emails that got leaked. Well, I don't know who leaked or maybe you know who leaked or maybe he's talking to you about he has an idea who

he thinks leaked those to do a to damage his reputation his credibility are you surprised he got some fired because of that no not in the way that it sounded like it went down sound like they're gonna keep I mean, this is my theory before but he called Goodell and anti football. What I didn't help. Yeah, right. And they guess guess who's reading and as someone who's coming from that I know that guy can hold the grudge a little bit. I don't think he loved that he's like, I'm gonna this guy and he got caught up in that

whole Washington Washington situation. And suddenly the only emails being leaked are about him. So I think they're like, we're going to get this guy out of here. Wow. You mentioned P-Mac. And what he's been able to do, you talk about a punter. And he was a very good punter.

But punters don't normally parlay what they did on the field until media careers off the field. That normally belongs to quarterbacks, maybe high level players that had a big name when they played and they parlayed on that name moving forward. How do you think McAfee has been able to be so successful? It's talent, like, I mean, the second you see him, he was a super talented guy.

He was very funny and very talented when he was a punter in Indy. He was already kind of like an Indy. Yeah, that swag, yeah. Yeah, kind of like an indie legend. But I remember I hired him. He said he wanted to be like WWE champion like three days after I met him. Like that's one of his goals.

He worked his ass off. But combine all that with he's super talented. So that's why. How were you able to build around him? So what he did? Barstool is already huge at the time. We hired him and we put out hey We're doing a casting for McAfee like in just all Barstool people showed up He picked the team he wanted around him and ran that office in Indianapolis Wow How do you feel like?

You mentioned Alex Cooper left McAfee. I think McAfee might have been the first one to leave. Well, the first was at Jenna Marbles. Okay, Jenna. Then, I don't know. Was it Alex or P-Mac? I think it was Alex, then McAfee, and I'm probably now bussin'. I'm probably forgetting a couple others, but yeah, how do I feel when they leave? It's bittersweet.

I think it's an endorsement of what we're doing. Like a new person coming up, like, hey, look at these. They all went and got multimillion dollar contracts. So we're a good place to build that career. It weakens us and it's pressure because when someone leaves like that, you got to replace them, find the next guy. Again, I keep saying it, it's a very sports team model. You can't pay everybody the max salary because then you're not going to have no office. You're going to have nobody.

So that's what it is. And I know that going in, but it still sucks. McAfee said, quote, he left Barstool part because the lack of transparency with the business operations of the company. Yep. I think that's part he and I disagree on now There are certainly something to be said like maybe a check was late or anything like that But but the check late. Yeah, like it be late that day, but it's like I got operations. I got people gotta please

Yeah, no, he's making plenty. It's like a commission check. We got a wait. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, like saying not like his regular salary. And he was kind of in a hybrid. So let me give you an example. PMT, Pat McAfee, if our salespeople were out pitching it, and at the time, PMT is dwarfing McAfee, which it was at the time, obviously no longer, he wasn't a full-time, he got like a share of what was sold. PMT didn't. But it could appear to an outside person,

well, they want all the sales to go to PMT as opposed to me because they don't have to share the commission. Sales guys don't give a fuck, sales guys just want the commission, whatever these sales. Yeah, whatever they sell, they want their 4% off the top. If the client is like, I'm doing PMT, our sales people aren't gonna be like, well, go to McAfee because we gotta do that. So I could see how he would say,

maybe it wasn't transparent, but in no way were we trying to screw McAfee, anything like that. He has said that about the business at the same time, be like, I like Dave and Erica. I don't agree with that part of it at all. You mentioned Alex, that you lost her. Do you remember that last conversation

that you had with Alex? The very last one? Yeah. I mean I still talked to her time to time. No, there was nothing specific with her. I knew the deal and almost everybody who leaves us will take a hometown discount. Right. Because they like work and it's kind of like, you know, Compton Will talked about it's like you leave the NFL and we're kind of like a team. There's a lot of us with bus balls locker room vibe. But she told me what they offer and it's like if leave the NFL and we're kind of like a team. There's a lot of us with bus balls locker room vibe But she told me what the offer and it's like if you can get close I'll stay and we couldn't get close Yeah, cuz our first like 60 million then 125 and then she just got another day. Yeah, she's she's a megastar And she's somebody like the first time I met her right I saw sizzle reel and I'm like who made this for you

She's like I did I learned how to edit like done signed up. Let's do it. So she's self-motivated very smart What made her special that what I just said so like you see a lot of people Who don't put in the work to learn out like the beauty of? Nowadays, there's a lot of people I get a hundred emails a day. Hey, I'm super funny, I'd fit in, I can do this, I can do that. Alright, show me a reel, show me what you've done. Zip, they got nothing. The people, the internet, you can go do it. You can be self-motivated, you can put out a hundred episodes,

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college All-American and was conference player of the year. And he says, it's not our job to get you ready to go play somewhere else. I mean, it's a blessing and a curse because they come to you and a lot of these people are really unknown. And then all of a sudden they grow into these mega superstars and then they leave you. Yeah, it sucks. But that's why I wouldn't recommend anybody get in the talent business.

Like, you know, one of our biggest stars right now is my dog, Miss Peaches. You know, fucking mega star. And I never have to renegotiate. So that's like, you want to get in the dog business, not the human business. Are you surprised she got as big as she got? It happened so fast, that caught me off guard.

But no, once it went going and you know once you start That that mountain she became like almost a female Oprah's right these huge guests And I mean she's got Kamala and like that so no I wasn't But you still have you still do business where you have her merch right would that ended we used to well So let me ask you this because you got a model for Merch, how did you come up with that model? We needed to make money, that's it. Like, I told you in the beginning of the interview,

we had the homeless guys sell shirts. I mean, hand out the newspapers. I bought a bunch of T-shirts as a barstool sports on them so they could wear it. Well, they lasted one week, I was stuck with these shirts. I had no money. Put the shirt in the newspaper. Hey, buy these shirts. A couple of people bought them. I'd actually keep count. Hey, we sold seven shirts this week. And there'd be a little picture of it. So day one, we were just selling merch, hustling. Need to

find a way to make money. What's your number one selling t-shirt? Oh, what a question. It could be Free Brady. That was obviously, they're around iconic moments. Uh, I was thinking about the other one. The commissioner with the nose. That's huge. The Del Clown nose is huge. How did you come up with that idea? So,

there was a shirt that we sold, Charlie Sheen, winning. Winning? Yes. that we sold Charlie Sheen winning. Winning? Yes. So we sold that. It was on a similar blue t-shirt and I just stuck the red nose on him and then we had, I mean, Patricia Ward off the plane after they won the Super Bowl.

Sean Payton Ward when he got suspended. It became like basically a sign of rebellion against the league. Just took off. We did this event at Fox Foxboro first game after they won the Super Bowl Goodell's back at Gillette. They're playing the Chiefs. We had 40,000 towels printed with the little clown nose on it and We did an event a week before I said Patriot season ticket holders. I need you to show up at this warehouse I'm gonna give you boxes you hand them out Patriot season ticket holders, I need you to show up at this warehouse. I'm gonna give you boxes, you hand them out.

Crafts called me, they heard about it. They're like, we don't let anything come into the stadium. You're not allowed to promote for free. We're just gonna turn the other cheek on this. We're gonna let these come in. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So that took a life of its own. Have you ever met Roger? Never. He put me in cuffs twice. You think Roger would sit down? You think he's willing to bury the hatchet now? I don't know. Maybe now at one point during COVID, he did a charity auction. And it was you could sit in his basement watch Monday Night Football with him. So I bid 250 grand won the auction. And then I

got an email being like we did NFL security did our background check on you. You've been arrested twice. We're not gonna let you do it. You didn't have to do background check. I've been arrested twice by you guys. So that's the only time I've been. That's the background. Yeah, that's the background.

You didn't have to do go dig that. So that was a little bit ago. The thing about it, it's been good for us. If he sat down, it would be the end of it. Like, I mean, what's gonna happen? So I don't know. It's been an interesting saga with him Are you still banned by the NFL? Can you not go to the NFL sanction event? I Don't believe we're allowed a media day like a couple years ago. They had a picture. It looked like We're like Billy the kid they had gang they had posters up with like bar so employees do

Be on the lookout for them to f*** up with ESPN, with Super Bowl events, but I only do it if the Patriots are in it, which by the way, I still hate, I've gone over it, but your little like, call the National Guard thing. Like, there's no way I'm like very aware of that. Dave, you couldn't have been more than like 16 or 17 with the half of it.

It was before we had really gotten going and you guys were in the height of it. But yeah, I hate that speech. Hold on, Caleb Presley, I mean- Gone. We lost him too. Yes. You know, these gambling companies,

if we know how much We're paying people and how much we make and someone's gonna overpay by 50% now It may not be an overpay for underdog. Mm-hmm because I don't know their business model But I know how much we made and if I I can't just lose like 10 million a year, right? Can't yeah, could you go only sale so much? Yeah like 10 million a year, who can't. Yeah, cause you can only sell so much. Yeah, it's like I go to our sales people, like how much can we possibly make on this guy? And I'm happy to even get close to breaking even.

And Caleb wanted to stay. So, but- They just made him an offer, he just, he couldn't refuse and you couldn't match and it's gotta be okay. It is, he at one point is like, I told him, I'm like, I think you gotta go. He's like, I'm not gonna go like we hired him out of college

I saw him running down the North Carolina sidelines with this long blonde hair like who the hell is that and So we recruited him as much as we recruit out of college and he was with us I don't take seven eight years. So but at some point everyone's gonna get paid. Hello Tom Brady said signed it the Brady. paid. Hold on, Tom Brady signed it? Did Brady sign it? Yeah. Oh, the Brady's your guy!

He can't steal. Listen, you can do, like, you know when you do a murder mystery, you have strings on like, almost everything comes back to us. Your guy, Silver Lake, Brady's company, they're all underdog, they're all Barstool people. We were so early, it They're all barstool people right we were so early. It's like all Barstool, but Dave Brady is your guy is like if you got a girl And y'all break up. She should be off limits to Brady

He definitely should he definitely should try to quarter half the companies won't exist that I agree with you I agree. It sucks that they're there, but it literally I agree with you. I agree. It sucks that they're there, but it literally Every company is so twisted with like ex barstool people right? It's tough. Yeah, Brady's my guy. I don't know Brady's my guy. I don't know that I'm his guy. Okay. Yeah like you Like me but like I but he's running a business now you do what? Yeah. I don't think he's like, I owe Dave a ton of favors. Right. I think.

Why do you let your, why do you let your, your talent keep their IPs? It varies. So if some of them come to like Boston had the IP beforehand, caller daddy essentially put a gun in my mouth with contract negotiations. It's like, all right, I don't have much whale rum.

And some IPs, they don't work. Like, all right, let's say you work for me and we have club sheshet. What the fuck am I gonna do with club sheshet if you leave? So some of them, it's like, you know, you're just being a to a degree. It gives them more leverage, but I want creators to be like they're a fair place They're not trying to me over so, you know certain ones if it's just a general podcast that we can change. Yeah, but

Like what's this? Synonymous with them. Yeah, what are we gonna do with it? You actually signed a good friend of mine, Coach Prime, to a contract before he ended up getting, and I think he was still doing it for you when he was at Jackson State. One of my favorite guys we've had. He told me the same thing.

He said, man, I said, man, cause I was surprised that he actually signed with Barstool, and he said, man, you got it wrong about Dave. A lot of people got it wrong, but I didn't know what to expect with him. Like, I'm still pretty friendly, like I'll text him now all the time. I think he's one of the most,

what I was expecting to walk through the door, 180 and one of the most impressive, like none of his success surprised me in the least after you get to know him. What you, I think the thing is the public persona versus the private persona is totally different. I remember he told me a story when I was like, man, when he was coming out of college, he's like, you know, you saw the pomp circumstance. It's like I researched where guys at my position got drafted and they weren't getting paid.

They were. He's like, I knew I had to do something to create my brand and my image and brilliant. And he's a brilliant, smart, he's literally one of my favorite hires that we've ever had. You signed million dollars worth of game, Wallo and Gilly. Did you know about them before you signed them? So how much did you know about them? We have a guy, Rhone, who's a battle rapper, white kid.

He's like basically the real life version of M&M. So he's from Philly. And he's like, hey hey there's these two guys you may want to go look at. So we went to Philadelphia, sat down, had a dinner with him. Wallo, Wallo was out of jail for like five seconds. I think that's when we met him and I remember him being like I just hustled t-shirts on the side of the road like that's how I'm making money right now. He had his own gear and again it's like that's what we want like that's that was kind of the model you started exactly it's all right I and we were so

we clicked we got along they're crazy and I mean I don't even know what the hell Gilley is doing now run out of the tunnel with that's like the mascot so and again it's like we hire him we try like the phrase. I've seen you doing it. It's like the mascot. So, and again, it's like we hire them. We try to put our gasoline behind them. They're a new demo for us. I don't think most people would be like, oh, Barstool's urban. And then you let them do their thing. Wow.

How would that, has that investment paid off? Because normally you, I mean, have you made any bad investments? Because we hear about Caleb Preston, we hear about McAfee, we hear about Buston, we hear about Alex Cooper, we hear about all the... Yeah, I mean those are big contracts so you have to be really, really proven at that point to get that type of deal for us so it's hard to do a bad contract. So those guys, Wall & Gilly are one of the highest probably contracts we've given out they're already there at the time if we're bitches totally honest a lot of people have perception of us just a bunch of white guys so there's a

diversity ad that they add even yeah not only being super talented yeah I was wondering about that DEI stuff yeah we tried it's not DEI. It's not DEI. Like you know who we tried to hire before? It's the guys on before they went to Showtime. Art of Smoke? No, Jesus and Romero. Oh, okay. Like before anyone knew who the hell they were. And even like we did talk to up in all that smoke smoke and sometimes I didn't talk to us. What's that? Y'all didn't talk to us? You didn't exist yet.

I did. Oh, no. We was free. When I got let go by Fox, we reached out to them. They were before Fox. Oh, yeah. No, we talked to them like pre-COVID almost. Oh, okay.

Yeah. No, we didn't reach out. So I was like, you then? Well, I didn't honestly know you were let go by Fox. I knew you were doing it with Skip. And then you showed up on ESPN. I was like, wow. Don't nobody want to, CJ.

But you kind of like, I feel like, opened up after the Fox. Like, you were more... I don't know if this is going to sound bad. I felt like you were second fiddle to Skip. And then once you got off that show bloomed Well, we didn't have nightcap. So nightcap allows me to be a different talk to Ocho at one point. Yeah Zach Bryan, why you write it? Why you had to did it this song for him? So he's he's dating a girl that was on my podcast

He was dating Brown and chicken fry right who is a girl who blew up kind of social media I was doing a tik-tock podcast with her. She got paid offered a 12 million dollar NDA not to talk about the relationship I saw the NDA so in my head and based on what she's well million 12 million she turned it down. Turned down because you want to be able to talk with the relationship to me that somebody's doing real scumbag behavior so this track came out.

To me that's somebody's doing real scumbag behavior. So this track came out You hold grudges don't you like you don't believe yeah, I believe Champagne bottles with my enemies names engraved. I'm skipper. Yeah the the CEO of ESPN Yeah, John skipper. Yeah, so they cancel our ESPN show without telling us after one episode I was mad made a champagne bottle like two weeks later, busted for the coke thing, which makes no sense. That story got held hostage by a random coke dealer. Anybody who believes that story is out of their mind. You don't believe that, huh?

You found a rent. You're John Skipper. You found a random coke dealer on the side of the street and he's holding you hostage or after. No, I don't believe that story story so what the hell you think happened because the man he had he wielded so much power in ESPN for such a long period of time nothing ran through ESPN without skippers blessing I something happened I don't know I wasn't there I think there's probably a lot of backstories, skeletons, maybe, I don't think it was a coke dealer. Yeah.

That forced them out. We're talking about Bustin' with the Boys, Taylor LeWine and Will Compton. How did you know they could be special? Saw an early episode of theirs, and it was just raw, real, and we reached out to them. We're like, hey, you guys doing something. We really haven't seen Would you be interested in come on board? So I think we've had him for about six years. It's been great

I actually love those guys sucks They're leaving with bus balls, but they just had that it and wills a monster a lot of times what you find Taylor's great And and this isn't really your case, but a lot of times what we found is the guys who were athletes who maybe didn't make all that money and he didn't, he was like, you know, bounce off, getting cut. They come into the media world and they're just ready to go, working their ass.

This is their career. They didn't make it and Will's been, Will's a megastar. Yeah. Did they learn how to do this? Because I think they're set up for the production, they're doing a production company now, I think. Yeah, they all learn.

They go to the school of Barstool. Get a degree. And they get a degree and then they graduate, make a lot of money. So let me ask you this. Is that, it seems to be that this is the gambling deals or the deals that they get once they leave you that they don't get,

and they feel they don't get when they're under you. Here's what it is. So we have a gigantic all-encompassing DraftKings deal. Okay. So DraftKings pays us a ton of money. They don't necessarily, if Boston's with us or not with us, that doesn't change a cent of what Barstool makes. So another gambling company can be like, hey, we can pay you all this money. We have no way to make that up. If it was a different advertiser, if it was a liquor, we could incorporate it and give the money to them. But in this case, it's a gambling deal. That's opposite of what?

Correct. And we have an exclusivity and DraftKings is paying us the same whether Buston's here or not Buston's here. They care, me, Dan, and some people so it puts us behind the eight ball and these guys have infinity money these gambling companies right now. They're spending you know they're spending like wildfire. They do? Yeah. Do you not have a gambling deal? Does he not? So they wanted to split the revenue with you. Who?

Bustin'. So like you said, you have this deal, you have an all-encompassing gambling deal. I want to go back to your gambling deal. It's not very good. I don't really want to talk about it. But that's another thing. So you have this all-encompassing deal. And so basically Barstool, we're going to give you, let's just say for, I'm throwing

out a number, 70 million. And so you're like, OK, this show, Barstool, I'm going to give you guys 2 million of this. This show, I'm going to give you 1.5 million of this. This show, I'm going to give you 3 million of this. Pretty much. And now there's different people. Some people, like if you advertise with me or part of my take, that doesn't get cut at all.

Those are like shows we own. Spitting Chicklets, yes. Busting, yes. Bussing, yes. But there's no way it's going to be near what they get. Where they can get on their own if a gambling deal just reached out directly to them. Correct. Yeah and then they can still go sell their other ads on top of that. So I think Will and Taylor said they would have taken 40 percent. Like they are getting a 40% and I mean Will was calling like how can I stay and I want it I made the most aggressive offer I've

made at Barstool to keep them yes and I just couldn't do it you get to a points like how much you know yeah it's just doesn't make sense yeah you can't do it if it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make sense and it doesn't make sense it doesn't make dollars that's a... So what have you learned from each situation talent leaving? Because it doesn't seem like if I sit here with you Dave, it doesn't seem to me that you bear any itemosity. It's how you leave. Like I had a problem with Jenna Marbles the way she left, when she left. But as long as you do the right thing, I know it going in. Like, there's, you know, if somebody left for less money

or similar money, even then I don't, I'd be like, why? Like, don't we treat you well? But I can't really begrudge any of the, because I do the same thing. Like, if that's me, I'm probably making the same decision. Right. So, but it does suck. Do you ever regret, like, man, bro,

well we put this gas behind you, bro, we blew you up. And this how you do your boy? No, I mean the call her daddy thing. Yeah. That became a real situation and it could have ended really ugly and it didn't. But it's maybe petty. Most of the people graduate, when I say graduate, they'll come back. They'll be like, yeah, I owe Barstool a lot. Thank you. And so, no, I don't really have that.

And I'm a petty guy. I almost have it on lesser people, like people who's irrelevant. If someone goes to a compa... Like there's a guy at Underdog who tried to poach our producers and that drove me nuts. It's like you won't even know who the fuck they are if you don't work here. That's a little different.

Talent, who's on contracts, like no, it doesn't. This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just simply go back to Club Shae Shae profile and I'll see you there. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.