Club Shay Shay - Club Shay Shay - Hitmaka Part 1

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Download the PrizePicks app today and use code SHANNON to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/SHANNON  Hitmaka joins Club Shay Shay for a wide-ranging conversation that traces his journey from Chicago prodigy to Grammy Award–winning super producer. With over 100 million records sold, billions of streams, platinum plaques, and diamond records as both an artist and producer, Hitmaka reflects on becoming one of the most influential hitmakers shaping today’s sound. The Chicago native breaks down why the city continues to produce superstars and shares his thoughts on longevity in the music industry. He reacts to recent headlines surrounding G Herbo, reflects on collaborating with King Von and Lil Durk, and opens up about Durk’s current prison situation. He also discusses working with Kanye Wesxt early in his career and what he sees as the biggest difference between the Kanye of the 2000s and today. Hitmaka shares personal stories about growing up with well off parents and how their divorce shifted his path toward the streets. He details being signed away and mistreated at a young age, eventually landing a deal with DMX at just 14 years old, and later being sent to a controversial military boarding school. From there, he recounts moving to Los Angeles as a teenager, starting as Young Berg—and launching his rap career. He revisits the success of “Sexy Can I” with Ray J, being bailed out of jail by Shaquille O’Neal, and the pressures of being a teen star. Hitmaka opens up about financial mistakes, getting robbed for his chain, Soulja Boy ending up with it, and the tragic death of PnB Rock. He explains why he stopped rapping, issues with record deals, and lessons learned from public moments involving Jeezy, Gucci Mane, and T-Pain. The conversation dives deep into his rebrand from Young Berg to Hitmaka and how he rebuilt his career into one of the most in-demand producers in hip-hop and R&B. He shares studio stories and insights. He discusses winning a Grammy, ghostwriting, producer percentages, clearing samples, charging for beats, cease-and-desist letters, and which records made him the most money. Hitmaka also speaks candidly about Love & Hip Hop, dating in the industry, past beef with Bow Wow, and the dangers of mixing business with relationships. He addresses being set up and robbed, why therapy changed his life, and what he’s learned about accountability and growth.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boen, hi, Matt, hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie.

Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcast. This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more.

What's up, man? This is your boy, Nav Green, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs.

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Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. You still got Chris Brown over Usher? What? Of course. Pause that too.

I don't like that. There you can. All my life. Grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll of dice.

That's why all my life. I be grinding on my life. All my life. So pay the price. Want a slice. Got to roll a dice. That's why. Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shaysh.

I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shishay. Stopping by for conversation on the drink today, he sold over 100 million records and has billions of streams. He's an award-winning, highly sought-after super producer, a Grammy award-winning songwriter, a multi-platinum selling rapper, a creative anthem, a chart-topping artist, an industry veteran, a multi-talented musician, versatile star, and an executive extraordinaire. He's gone diamond as an artist and a producer, a pivotal figure in shaping today's music scene with soundtracks of our lives,

he has the Midas touch. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, hitmaker. What's up, bro? I'll see you, huh? Man, thank you. How you doing? Man, I'm blessed, man. Thanks for having you.

So I always ask my guest this. When you hear the accolades that I read off in such a short time, what goes through your mind? Well, when I first heard it, I'd be like, damn, I sold 250 million records. But, man, it was a bad thing that went through my mind. But, man, just a journey, man.

I think that a lot of people, skip over the journey and don't really appreciate the journey. And I'm gonna be honest, at times I did it myself, because when you sew boots on around and just going and going and going, you don't take time to reflect and then shit, look at me now. And I ain't, all them accolades, I ain't got no kids, no wife, no nothing. So shit, it's time to figure it out. Well, let's go ahead and talk.

Yeah, we do. That's coming. I mean, you've had all the success, you mentioned, 250 million album, a record sold, all the billions of billions of streams. And now, because you got caught up so caught up in it, And people that get caught up in their careers, they understand exactly what you're talking about. So, Luke, bro.

Cheers, my brother. You know what you think. I've been waiting to get that shay-shay. It's smooth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's smooth. You're from Chicago. Yeah.

What is it about Chicago? Why many of you guys from Chicago? I think it's because, like, the environment, you know what I'm saying? It kind of builds you to be, like, tough. And then deeper than that, for me, it's just more so, like, we didn't have a way out. People, like, I'm older now, so I'm older now, so I'm about to be 40.

So everybody else, like, the younger guys, they don't see it like that because it's the Chief Keys, the Little Dirk's, the G Herbos, or whatever. But when I was coming out, it was literally common, twister, do-a-die, psychodrama, crucial conflict, and Kanye. That was it. So it was like, you didn't have an opportunity to be like, man, like, if I was in New York, I would sit outside the Def Jam building 24-7 and wait for Jay-Z to come out and rap for them and shit like that.

Like, that ain't really the opportunity. So I just think the music, it's a real musical. city though. I mean, I'm gonna be honest, like, my next door neighbor, like, for a while was buddy guy, you know? Really? Yeah. Okay. So, like, the music is in the city, and it's just on us. Like, it's a real soulful town, so I

think that that's where it really come from. What do you think's been the key to your longevity? The work. Like, I love the work, bro. Like, I don't like to do nothing. Like, people, this around the time, a Grammy's in that thing. I'm nominated for Grammys for other producers that I work with in situations, but I hate

partying. I hate phony kicking it. I'm not really like, I think if I, if I phony kicked it more, I might be like in a different space, but I'm just so dead focused on the work. You're real. If I F with you, I F with you. If I don't, ain't no sense. Hey, hey, bro. Yeah. Ain't none of that. Because when you end it so long, you see the same characters come around. So when you ain't has shit and they were shipping on you, you see them. Now you up. You see them again. And the tune change a little bit. So, I mean, I'll be, I be searching for authenticity. But at the same token, it's the music business. So you got to kind of play the game. But I don't. play the game like that. Because I had T. Payne on. And T. Payne say, bro, ain't nobody in this business

your brother. They're your brother as long as they can use you or get you got something they want or can help them get the way they won't. But when they say that brother, don't believe that

nobody in this business is your brother. And I was like, but I see you and I saw you kicking with people. He's like, no, I had to learn the hard way. And you said it like, hold on.

When I was down, y'all didn't have time for hit maker. Now I'm up. Now, boy, you'll be, hey, you'll be dropping a beat. You're like, nah, I'm good, cuz. Yeah, see, I just think that, man, like, it's two ways to look at that. Like, as I get older and go through therapy and shit like that,

like, I never really got, like, the POV standpoint. Like, my POV is not going to be the same as somebody else or whatever. And then with them learning that, like, they're supposed to use me, though. Right. Because I provide a service. Correct. But when you're useless and you can't be used, then they ain't going to fuck with you no more. You know what?

I heard that told. I heard somebody told, I forget who it was was on the show and says, yeah. Oh, um, you say you, yeah, at least I,

I forget I, it'll come back to me, but they said something very similar is that being used, at least I had a service to provide. Exactly. So if you can't be, you can't use somebody that don't have anything to provide.

What's you doing? Ain't that happening? You mentioned G. Herbal. Right. And G. Herb, I had him on. and he's unbelievable.

I mean, it's my really first time getting an opportunity. Because when I get an opportunity to sit down and talk to people, because you have a perception of somebody that you see from a distance. But when you get an opportunity to sit down and you talk to them and you start to, you know, after 30 minutes, after an hour, you get a sense of like who that person really is. And I had a sense, and I was like, man, this is a good brother. Obviously, he came up in some times and he had to do some things that I'm sure he's not proud of,

but I think he's a good brother. And I heard him the other day he said that, you know, someone tried to trick him out of his spot. But I thought up a gang sign in the club in front of his face. He's like, no, I'm too smart for that, bro. I'm way, way, way past that. What is it about like when somebody that I don't know if the guy knows, he might have didn't know it, maybe it was a true gang, a bang or whatever the case may be?

But why is it that when we see somebody that came from an environment, why we always, and they come out and they make it, why we try to put them back in that situation? It's crabs in a barrel mentality, brother. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think that it's such a clout-driven error right now. A person would rather come and do some harm to you and be famous for doing harm to you than actually express that they truly like you

and they fanzing you instead of giving you the admiration and your flowers at the time. And I think it's just because we raised. It's how we raised culturally, you know what I'm saying? Like, for lack of better word, black people are like known to hate on this. That's why that's the shade room. Right.

You know, like, I mean, TMZ is for, I feel like it's for white people or whatever, but it ain't as volatile as shade room or ball up. alert or the things that we got going on. I just think that, look, and I'm sure we're going to talk about that shit later. Like, I was on love and hip hop. Think about, like, guilty pleasures, right? Yes.

People like to see famous people not doing good so they can feel better about what they're like going on. You know what I'm saying? So I really commend Herb for doing that because I really know Herb. He a little brother of mine. Like, I ain't going to lie. We're just talking yesterday. And, man, like, he's one of the good ones. He's one of the great ones.

And I think that he realized what his purpose is because when I met him, man, He was just a little herb. I bet it with Nikki Minaj when he came and did that Shirek song in L.A. for Nikki. So, man, I love Herb, man. That's a little bro. This episode is brought to you by prize picks,

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lineup. Prize picks. It's good to be right. Also, Vaughn, where were you when you heard what it happened to Vaughn? I was in a studio. I told you I don't do nothing but work. And the crazy things for me is that Vaughn has such a good spirit. Like, I did Vaughn. I think I might have did My biggest record, besides crazy story, it's a song called Steel Trapping featuring him and Lil Durk or whatever. I think it's like triple platinum, four times platinum now.

And I work with them. A lot of people see, I don't just make beats, Shana, I make records, I make hit records. You call me when you want a hit. You want a nigga to just play you some beats, go call him. That ain't what you for. Nah, the song come done.

I'm in the studio 24-7, so when I work with a rapper, I'll present a beat with a hook already on it to make the job easier for the rap. Damn, he ain't got nothing to do with just lay a track. Exactly, because why would you want to do that? These niggas got to go tour all over the world. They're going to be big artists. They allow me to do their work for them, but they still got to make it their own.

Because I could write a hook for anybody sitting in here right now, and they might not perform it the way that artist performs it. So when I got with Vaughn and he took those records and that was a demo, and he like, damn, gang, I'm really supposed to resate what you said. I'm like, yes, but put your own spin on it. Say it like you say it. Make it true to you. And then that allowed him do that.

And I ain't going to lie. We did those songs and we did a bunch of different records. shortly after he lost his life. And I felt like his trajectory was just going so high at that point. But you know how this shit go, man? Like, he was really one of them. So, like, I don't even think that with him passing, he would be too, like, caught up on crying about it.

You know what I'm saying? Like, he lived and he did what he was supposed to do. I think he got farther than he might have thought he was going to go. But here, you said, here is a guy, and you can see he's ascending here. why not get off that train that's going to either put him put him where he currently is into the penitentiary

why when you go in here why would you take a detour because Vaughn is in the era of reality rap so they thing was to go do shit in the streets and go tell real street stories that academics or any

of these different people can go put the dots together and try and connect it like that's why people with them so much Because it was like, oh, I'm talking about this situation. It's a real situation that happened. I was involved with it to a certain degree allegedly, you know what I'm saying? And it was just right there.

So people were drawn to the reality rap of what he was doing. And now I feel like that area is kind of leading us right now to another direction. Because who has that started? Somebody said F the Street. Oh, yeah, 21 Savage. Savage said F the Street. Because we saw what happened with YSL in Atlanta and we see the thing And it's like, man, look here, after streets.

Where are you? Oh, I ain't in the streets at all. I'm an executive. I don't know what that's all about. Yeah, after three. Yo, yo, Shannon, yo, listen, I'm from south side of Chicago, man. I was blessed that my parents actually, like, they're your people had money. They put in at work.

Yeah. So, you know, they get on my ass every time. I say, I never ate a sandwich, a hot dog, hamburger, grilled cheese, McDonald's. Oh, you had hot meals? Oh, I had chefs a night. What? I had a decision. to make. It wasn't really about what I was. You know how I'm like, you're going to eat this

grilled cheese. It wasn't none of that. I was going to school with like a thermos with chicken noodle soup inside of it, Shana. Damn. Yeah, man, I was moving different. So I was around the streets. Music led me to the streets. Okay. I was living in the suburbs and I was so caught up into the music and the DMXs, the JZs. And back then it wasn't reality rap, but you had to be true to whatever you were. Yeah. So I was the dumb that was in school that could have had a, range rober at 16 but i wanted to go sail crack in the middle of the hood and think that i'm doing whatever i'm doing and my parents was all the way up you mentioned you you mentioned you uh you wrote one of uh durk's uh excuse me bond biggest song and with him and little dirt yeah how was that experience

what was that like man the experience was crazy because you hear the stories about king bond and then you got remember i ain't a street dude right so like i usually work in my own little zone you come see me in my space like how we just came to see you in the space right i'm I had to go to him. Oh. It's 35 in the studio. It's like, yo, so I'm not in my comfort zone automatically, but. Is it necessary that they be here, all up here?

No, I'm like, yo, bro. Like, I don't know what they got going on. And they're all Y-Ns, though. Like, they're all moving a little different, 20 push-hysty mask on in the studio. It's like, it was throwing me off, throwing my energy off a little bit. But I saw the value in where he was going and the potential. So I was like, you know what? we take some of this shit off.

Yeah. We leave some of this shit at home. You know what I'm going to come real light. You know what I'm saying? And then let me open myself up to this different environment. And I ain't going to lie. We did them really fast. Knocked them out.

And it's the same way with Dirk. Like, Free Dirk. When I go work with him, he was evolving. See, I worked with Dirk on every album. He dropped pretty much throughout his career. And he evolved, though. I think he caught the, he started understanding the business earlier than Vaughn or whatever and start moving different, start positioning itself a little.

little different. It's unfortunate to where he is now. But, man, like, Dirk and Vaughn, they want to, they're on a, they on a, they own a restaurant in Chicago. Really? Of Y-Ns. Right. Of younger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and look, I know you don't like to speak on this, but, and you mentioned, like,

unfortunately, he got himself into a situation. And hopefully that works out for him. But I just, I wish guys would see what they have going before it's too late. For sure. Because, like you said, you saw Vaughn going here, dirt going here and then unfortunately they took detours

and like I said I mean well we know Vaugh you like Vaughnwood he was really whatever he talked whatever he rapped about he was really about that life because a lot of people not really about that life he's like bro you're a studio gangster

you you're bussy caps in the studio or wax you ain't really in the street trying to let nobody have it but they were really about that and so I you know and because you're close to him you know I'm on a personal level

it's not like we just from Chicago yeah he's from Chicago I know of him I don't know if you've actually worked with these individuals so there's a closeness that you have that probably a lot of people don't have and so I'm like probably when you heard like man dirt really I sure think that issue ain't true man that messed me up too though because you got to think from von pass and then you got to remember dirt lost a lot of family too he lost D thing he lost he lost he lost his brother who was his manager and these all people I knew from the beginning of his career

correct so I think you don't know how much trauma he might be old and you know what I'm saying like I couldn't imagine going through all that type of stuff and I really know where dirt from like I like I really was around these guys like I'm about nine years older than dirt so like dirt was like little little little dirt on the on a block when I was out there as a teenager or whatever so I mean I just praying for these for these brothers this the mentality bro like and I see things shifting I see the ties changing a little bit but man Chicago like we just got to do better and like I think it need to be more OGs they ain't had no OGs correct I ain't go fuck about no OGs they could beat up the OG that's the type of time they were on. So I'm just hoping that, you know what I'm saying? Like people you learn from examples instead of having to go through the situations

they self, you know? Yeah, I think the thing is that a wise man learned from other mistakes. The fool learns from its own. But you know what? My grandma should say, boy, sometimes you have to bump your own head to realize how much it hurts. Yeah, for sure. And unfortunately, sometimes we have to go through things

for ourselves. We can see it from a distance. But you're like, that can't happen to me. Yeah, I'm starting to learn as I get older, man, to go with my gut. So if I think about something and doing something, I'm like, should I send this DM? Nah, let it, I let it run. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know what I'm saying? Like, we got to pull it back a little bit. You worked with Kanye early in his career. What was early Kanye like? Man. Did you see, did you see? working with him early, early 2000s. Did you see what everybody came to?

I mean, he's a genius. Of course, bro. So Kanye West used to live on 95th Street in Ashland or whatever. And we used to go over there. My mentor is a guy named Boogs who works heavily with Kanye West. So we used to go over there all the time, rap, do all these different things. And I'm going to be honest with you. That, man, my demo was produced by Bugs, no ID, and Kanye West.

Okay. So Jesus walks, the Kanye song, was on my demo. Because he was moving the beats around. This before he made the song, Jesus walks. So on my demo that got me signed at the age of 13 to DMX, I had one of the biggest being wars going on as a kid rapper. It was JZ, DMX. Every company, probably 10 different companies wanted to sign me at the time.

And my demo had Jesus Walks on it. So that was like my first time, like, really collaborating with Kanye and being around him and just feeling energy. He was already a legend before. You know what I'm saying? Like he was doing JZ beats. Like Jay Z, you know, to us, we know where Jay Z is to us. Absolutely.

For him to be where we're from and doing Jay Z beats, he was already a legend from the jump. Wow. So what do you think the biggest difference is Kanye that you met and Kanye now? Oh, you're building now. That doesn't deal with the paper. Yeah, you know, the paper turned you. It's only a few handful of people,

and I know you can relate to this that get a large amount of paper that still stick to where their roots is, you know what? saying, and I'm not saying, Ye is a person that didn't stick to his roots because he had grown, man, he owed to me, man, almost 50, he can make his own decision. Right. But at the same token, I think money and fame is the most dangerous drug you could possibly take.

It's addictive. It's addictive. It's intoxicating, too. And kind of once you have it, you want more of it. Exactly. And that's what I'm fighting with my therapist about right now. She's like, when is it going to ever be enough? I get the same thing.

I'm like, I don't know. But I don't know what I would do if I didn't work. What would I do? I mean, what? I mean, what? I mean, to go travel and to go do all this stuff, for what? Shannon, my dad's 76 years. I-Hart Radio is throwing it back.

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Preset the station so it's always one tab away. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-26 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boone, hi, hi, Matt, hi, Hey, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in. in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeart Podcast Awards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com.

Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at Audible.com. So right now, right? The man owned like 15, three flat apartment buildings in Chicago. The man still get up and go to them buildings every day, check on his tenants, do all the shit.

I'm like, yo, brother, we multi-millionaires. He's a millionaire. I'm a millionaire. Why don't we hire somebody to do that? But he won't tell me, but some in me tell me that when you start working, you did. So I look at him like he crazy. Like, yo, like, bro, you're done with all this shit. Let's sell them buildings.

Let's get you a house in Miami somewhere close to me to where I can have like a little fine nurse. Yeah, can't get your house caretaker coming through, getting you good, you know what I'm saying? But at the same token, he won't leave. No. He won't do it. What do you think about Kanye recently? I think it took out in the Wall Street Journal. or New York Times, where he apologized to the black community.

He apologized to the Jewish community for some of his rhetoric, or realizing. And he's made it, like, he's dealt with some things in the past. And, and I'm not here to make excuses for Kanye. Kanye is a grown man and his apology, his letter, his editorial, speak for itself. But what do you make of that? I think this is the best apology he's done throughout this whole time

because it was like, it wasn't apology based off like, man, I won't show acceptance back. It was just more so like a statement like, yo, like I'm working on myself. I'm accountable for what I did. Yes. I know I f*** up. And it's the first time he said he was f***ed up with black people. Yeah.

So that, you know, I mean, you got to know like either the PR team that ramped up or somebody untee, somebody, a black lady running his PR right now, or he's very genuine about what he really feels. And I think that him being genuine would be the best thing because the man catalog and just what he means to us. Now, you ain't even got to be a rapper or a musician or nothing, but he, you can't talk about life in our generation of what it is without Kanye West being mentioned. Yeah. I mean, you look at what he's done since he birthed on the scene in the early 2000 to what he is now.

And not only just what he's done, what he's been on other people and help them do. Right. You know what I think Kanye, where it started going bad at? And I'm, yay, I love you, John Monopoly. All y'all don't take me no way. when I say this, I think that when he went up there and took that award from Taylor Swift for Beyonce

no matter how much Henny he was on or how drunk he was, he was doing it for the right reason. He's like, yo, I'm an advocate for music. Let's be clear. Beyonce had the best shit smoking right now. And now we let in the politics changed and I think he was stoned for that

and he might not have been supported the way he thought he was going to be supported. I lie when he said George Bush don't like black people. He thought the outpour of the support was going to come the same way. And once he didn't receive that support, and he got shame for it. And he's like, I did this shit for somebody else. This ain't even my hell to hold.

It wasn't like I lost album of the year. Yeah. I stood on the table for someone else. For the culture, really, though. And this is with the things that I get. And I agree with you. I think that he thought he was going to get more support than what he got. But even if he had gotten the support, the support on the other side was far too great

because they control all the award. They can control everything. And so you got to. you know, at some point in time, you kind of have to play the game within the game. Exactly. I'm doing my own thing, but you understand how this machine works. When you play Miss Pac-Man, you know how to get to the end. Yeah, for sure.

There's a pattern that you have to follow. And everybody's like, well, I do my own thing, bro. I get you do your own thing. But it's kind of hard when you don't own everything that you own. So you might say, well, I own a business, but do you produce everything that you own? Do you sell everything to yourself that you own? So you need other people involved. And then when they shut that power off,

you just own something that you don't have anybody to sell it too. I think it's a fine line between handling your business and selling out. Yes. And everybody is trying to walk that type, bro. You absolutely are. Like, I'm trying to tell the truth. But, hey, I ain't trying to get this shit bigger than me. You know what I'm saying?

Hey, I'm need O'Brien. Hey, this is bigger than me. me. It's big in me. Everybody going down, this motherfucker, I go down. Yo, oh, crap. A sports figure, Derek Rose. Mm-hmm.

Hometown hero just had his number retired by the Bulls. What does D. Rose mean to the city of Chicago? I think he up there with Kanye, for real, for real. Like, because he, from the city, like, we love Jordan. Everybody loves Jordan. He's the greatest all time.

This man really went to Simeon. He really was at them schools to where we could go see him. Like he was really a part of what was happening. And then to do that and then to get drafted by the Bulls, then how your number retired by the Bulls, like, I don't know if it, and he in the Hall of Fame or he on the way? There's a possibility he's on the way. But, I mean, to have your Jersey retired by your hometown team,

a team that I'm sure you grew up watching because, look, everybody was a Jordan. If you were Chicago, you're a Jordan fan. Facts. You're a Jordan fan. It's simple as that. And to select, damn. And Dee Rose, man, I remember when Dee Rose, when he went to Simeon and, man, he won the state and he did this and he did that.

Man, now he's on the bulls and now he got his jersey retired. Dreams come true. There's a, for Chicago, just for Chicago, he's up there with Jordan. He might be bigger than Jordan just for the city of Chicago. I think so because he actually from Chicago. Correct. Mike, wait, see, is Mike from New York or is he from North Carolina? He was born in New York.

It's kind of like me. I was born in Chicago. Oh, for real? But I grew up in Georgia. That's why I f*** with you. You go to Chicago, man. What's going on, man? I do something's going on, man.

They're yack. What's up? Everybody in Chicago is like yak. Yeah, they do. That's some good stuff right now. That's premium. The neighborhood. Right.

I read that Shana from the DDP was from your neighborhood in Chicago. How did she help your music? Bro. So, damn, when I fell in love with the music, right, Her brother, his name is Ice Drake. And then she was signed, she had a deal with relativity first. And she had, like, a group. I forget, infamous syndicant.

It was her and a girl named Tifa. And as you know, or maybe you not know, buddy guy is her daddy. Oh. Yes. So that's how you, so, okay, okay. So we live in the suburbs. Who's in the center, playing the guitar during the movie. Exactly.

So we're in the suburbs. We doing whatever. And like, she's my next door. but like two houses down. So music was flowing through their household and my brother was like rapping and they were all like friends because Sean is probably like 10 years older than me too.

So they were all friends and they were all like making music and it was really inspiring for me to see because it let me know that yo this is possible. But I was really bad and I wanted to know about music boy they did me dirty. They used to lock me up in the crawl space. They used to, you know what I said? Do all this shit to a little brother that you know

it's you supposed to do. But I was able to be around those early beginnings and see how she did her thing. And then not only that, further down the line, when we got more closer and my career evolved before I got on as Youngberg, she put me on her album. I produced on her album as well. And it was just like she's a big sister to me, like in every shape of the word for real.

So music, from as long as you can remember, you've been around music. Yeah, for sure. It's been the only thing that you really wanted to do, huh? I ain't got nothing else to do. But this. No sports, no. Hold on my man here.

Like, I got a Jay. Oh, you're like that. Yeah, I got a shot. I ain't going to be doing a running and sweating and all that other stuff. But we want to shoot for some money. I'm the guy that you called. But in reality, man, I play basketball a little bit.

But, Sharon, you see, I got these my fucking product platforms. So I'm about five, seven. So I knew I wasn't going nowhere with that. And music just became my life just totally. I got my first record deal at 13. Wow. I dropped out of school in eighth grade. Hold on.

So when you dropped out of school, so what did you tell your parents, considering as financially stable as they are, I'm sure education was a big key. Hey, we want you to get an education. We want you to go off. We want, hey, potentially hand the businesses down to you. And so when you tell your parents,

Mom, Dad, I ain't going to school tomorrow. As a matter of fact, I ain't going to school no more. Right. So at that point, Shannon, so like my life is really, like a movie. Like, I'm really going to break this shit down, but it's a movie. Like, my parents they're up, boom, normal shit, they get a divorce.

Right. Now, as me being a young kid, I think my mom, like, progressed faster than my dad's life. Okay. So, she started dating and going, doing whatever her one, too. I hated that. I was the worst kid ever. Like, we in the suburbs, like, my mom getting a kiss from her, then she married,

end up marrying this guy, but, like, I'm at the top of the Bannister throwing shit at them while they're doing. I'm wild. I'm whiling out. You're like, that ain't my daddy why you kissing him? Exactly. So at that point, I became so much of a problem child that I moved in with my father

like boys in the hood. Yeah. So I went and lived my dad and he's like, I'm the king, you're the prince. That's what we're doing. But my dad, as I told you, he owns a lot of property, apartment buildings and real estate. So we went and moved into one of his buildings. Okay. And my mom ended up getting a house and a divorce

and all that other stuff. So my dad raised me from a real young man. But now we we're in a city now. No more suburbs. So now I'm close to the bullshit. And I was bad. So me going to school, like, he couldn't control that. I would go get on the bus. He can't follow me.

I was supposed to be going to school. They didn't say I went because I was actually made it. No, no, no. I put the uniform on to go to school. That don't mean, and I did go to school. But you know what I did, Shannon? You know, lunch started fourth period. I go in that motherfucker for freshman lunch,

sophomore lunch, senior lunch, June your lunch. I'm in that boom, boom, rapping, you know what I'm saying, doing what we do. I ain't never go to school. I ain't going to lie. I remember one time, and I am proud to say this,

so kids go to school, do what you got to do. Right. I was getting straight F's the whole time. F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F. I remember I got D's one time they got me Jordans. Hold on, you got D's. That's how much I wouldn't go to school. You're going to get pro kids or some Bobos.

You can't get no good in getting D's. Yo, I'm talking about I got rewarded for the D's. Damn, that you. know your grade's got to be bad if you get rewarded for these. I'm straight Fs. I'm talking about all Fs. They're like, well, this is an improvement, son. How did the George go? Exactly.

When your mother and father got a divorce. Right. Did you feel some sort of resentment because you're saying that when you saw her being with the guy, the gentleman that she ended up married, you felt some type of way. Did you have a resentment towards your mom for the divorce? Did you blame anybody in that situation? I think it was, um, do you know why your parents? got a divorce?

You know, they tell you older, when you older, whatever, in the moment. But, man, like, how good this interview, man? I'm going to tell the truth in this whole shit, you know what I'm saying? So, look, it was a lot of things going on. Now that I'm older and I see men and women relationships or whatever between however manipulation goes, and then we have a kid in the process of all that. I understand what was going on and when my parents was at the time, but I wasn't really able to really truly accept it at all.

And that started to split between me and my mom. Like I told you, my dad raised me. So, like, I was doing music, and my dad was supportive of me doing music. My mom, not so much supportive. So, like, man, like, I'm gonna get in the realty. Like, man, like, my mom got me locked up, put me in jail mad times.

Damn! All type of shit. She's called the folk on you? Yes, bro. I never forget, right? So, damn, we kind of speeding up. But, like, my mom, I was, I got my deal with D.M. I signed a DMX and like I'm up there in New York.

He moves me to Edgewater, New Jersey. I'm living in Edgewater and one of my friends at the time, he had a gun and he came in the house and like we was all playing with the gun and we double cocked the gun. So the gun go off in my apartment, boom, it go through the floor, it goes to all type of shit or whatever. I'm living in a townhouse. So not a police and everything is going crazy. I go back to Chicago and I'm around a bunch of street guys.

This is why I got a record deal. This is why I'm working on music. And my mom was like, I'm not really close with my mom, but she wanted to see me. She was sending me two-way messages on the like the silver scottail page at the time. She'd come pick me up. She's like, yo, I want to take you get some food before you go back to New Jersey. I'm like, nah, I'm really trying to do that. I want to go shopping.

I'm going to buy some clothes. Tell me to the mall. And we can go get food too. I had money, though. I had a record deal. So I was buying my own shit. So while we get to the mall, she's like getting all these mysterious phone calls. Like, I'm going to be parked by the Walgreens on the north entrance or this, this,

and I'm like, who are you talking to? And she's like, no, it's my new husband. He's going to meet us up here, this and the third. So in the mall, I come out the mall. My mom got a BMW at the time. Two big Samoans outside of the BMW. And they're like, hey, Chris, how you doing? What's going on?

I'm like, I'm good. You know, by that time I had a song on DMX soundtrack, exit wounds with his movie with Steven Seagal. They're like, we hear you do music, this down the third or whatever. I'm like, yeah, my mom, like, Chris, you got to go to school. She's jumping a beamer, press the trunk. And then the Samoans get the bags out of the trunk. Now, I'm fighting with two big Samoan in the middle of Evergreen Plaza.

That's a mall on the south side of Chicago. I'm fighting with them or whatever. They throw me down, put the plastic cuffs on me. Now they put me in a car. So now I'm riding through Chicago. Getting downtown. I'm like, what the fuck is in school? Look, where are we going?

We get to the airport. So now we're at O'Hare. So, like, they escort me through, trying to walk me through, get me the ticket or whatever. It's a black lady at TSA. She's like, why are you holding that young man like that? I don't know him. I snatch away from him. I'm running through the airport.

I take off running through the airport. Man, I ran to a dead end gang. I ain't going to lie. So they come get me, put me on one plane in Vegas. They're like, we can't tell you what's going on. We ain't going to let you know what's going on. They give me a letter. My mom wrote once we got to Vegas,

and it basically said she signed away all her parental rights to me to the school, to this in the state. So they shipped me to Thompson Falls. Yep, in Thompson Falls, Montana. And, like, this shit is on Netflix right now. They got documentaries of business. about this same school. Like they was raping people, beating people up.

They was taking advantage of kids. Like, so I go there. I'm a recording artist at the time. You can't look at girls. They start you off at level one, zero, nothing. You can't have salt pepper. You can't talk on the phone, nobody. I was cut off from the world.

I ain't know 9-11 happened. I ain't know nothing. I acted bad at the place in Thompson Falls, Montana. They shipped me to a place called High Impact in Jamaica to where it was no child safety law. I think of beat you to fuck a hundred laps with a hundred pound brick on my back just to get back to

Thompson Falls, Montana. And that's how I lost my record deal with DMX when I was signing them or whatever. And it just stripped me at everything. Like, I never, I know, Alia died, so I'm super close with. I was close with Alia from DMX and just all this other stuff.

And like, me and my mom, you know, like shit. Like, me and my mom ain't really close to the day right now. How could your mom, how could your mom slather away your rights and your dad? Oh, see, that goes back to what we were talking about, why I wasn't going to school? Because I wasn't paying attention to my dad. That nigger blowing up my phone.

I'm in the studio. I'm doing my own thing. He said, you took the keys away from me. He said, yo, I'm trying to stand up for you. I'm trying to vouch for you. Trying to tell your mother not, let's not go this option. Let's not take this route. And once I stopped communicating with him, it left him no choice.

His back was against the ball. Had your mother not intervened and sent you there, and I know the relationship, and we'd talk about this a little later, had your mother not did what she'd done, are we having this conversation today? I doubt it. I was like, I was really a bad kid on a bad path. And like, even though at the moment it didn't feel good,

but looking back in hindsight, like, it might have saved my life and might have put me in a different position to where I could even be having this interview with you now. But the wound's so deep on that level with that. With that as a story, we keep going or whatever. I'm going to let you know some more shit that went on or whatever. And then you understand the dynamic. As someone as a child whose parents divorced.

Mm-hmm. How do kids, what would you tell kids, if you had a room full of kids, you were speaking to 300, 400 kids and they're going through a very similar situation, parents divorced, what would you tell these kids? Love your parents.

They're not perfect. They're just humans and you'll realize it later. And that's what people told me, but you never really look at it like that in that moment. It's like, I want my mom, I want my dad, I want this. Because you had that. It was never a situation where I stayed at my dad, my dad, and then I go on the weekends with my mom and holidays, one holiday Thanksgiving.

I'm with dad. Christmas, I'm with mom. This or that birthday. I'm with dad. Next birthday I'm with mom. You had two parents in home doing extremely, extremely well. And then all of a sudden, that get ripped apart. Do you think that had an impact on why you chose what's going down the path that you go?

Or you had already started that path even when they were both in the home? I think it had an impact on it because, like I told you, it put me in a different environment. And I was living in the suburbs. Like we were living like the literally the ideal suburban life going to. You were the Cleaver. Exactly. But then when they broke up, my dad took it back to the hood. And it's like, we in the hood.

So my experience is I wouldn't have been around those. I wouldn't have been able to meet Kanye West. I wouldn't have been able to do all the different things. Meet my partner, books, my mentor. And who's... But theoretically it was a blessing in disguise. Yeah, bro. The journey.

That's what we were talking about. The journey. Is this situation between. between your mom and your dad. Is that what makes you skeptical of marriage? Well, I don't trust women. Come on, man. I'm sure you've had some relationship in your life

where the woman has been everything that you thought she would be in more. I'm damaged good, Shannon. Oh. See, you've got to understand it, right? I've lived it on different levels, right? So I've been the rapper that I've watched women do, bad things to their friends or to get to me. Right.

Then I've seen it from the other end too. Then not only that, I think nobody tells the truth about this is that and this what I would like to tell kids like people to get this man. When you grinding, man, maybe try and lock in with something early. Yes. Because you know she

really there for you. Yes. Yes. All this grinding and then you meeting me and I'm picking you up in a Lamborghini or a Ferrari or Rose Roy Spectra. You're always is going to be skeptical about who really is there for you of not. So it's just, I'm just damaged, you know what I'm saying? Now, I do got some women in my life.

I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to hold back on them or whatever that I think are really genuine people. But at the same token, now it's just so messed up is that I have no regard for adapting to someone else's plan. I'm the, I'm the masculine man. I'm not in the leadership position. So it's really like, yo, this is what I'm doing. If it work for you and you want to be involved with it, great.

If they don't, then shit, let's just be the best of friends. And that's just where I'm at with it right now. Well, have you found any one that understand the sacrifice what it takes for someone in your position to stay in your position or even climb even higher? Do they understand? So when you tell it, because everybody says I can be number two until they're really forced to be number two.

Like, my career is number one. I'm always going to be in the studio. I got to do X, Y, and Z. We're going to go on vacation. We're going to go out and get us a nice meal. We're going to do all that. But I just want you to know. somebody call and say they need a beat next week

I'm dropping everything to go hit this beat you know they ain't gonna never understand this shit come on shit man like well I think that see look this is what my hope is right okay so I am optimistic about things that's going on or whatever and I think that when you really take it that way

and when you're in a position and you're in a successful position I think that the woman that you end up either marrying or being with has to be understanding in your life lifestyle and also maybe has to be a part of what you doing your business may in some type of capacity you know what I'm saying to where she feels included and what's going on because I mean I mean I ain't worked this hard for somebody else to tell me what to do shana true I don't care what you know what I'm saying going on I don't care how you feel nothing I ain't work this hard for you to

receive the amenities that come along with being with me for your feelings to dictate what I got to do with my life do you think it's possible now to find a woman to love you through all these scars? Yeah, because I got money. But she ain't loving you because of those scars. She ain't loving you because of the money. The access that you give her, I'm talking about somebody that, if, Lord, don't let this happen, but if you were not had all this money, if all of a sudden now you're an average guy making 75 to $100,000 a year,

would she still be there, would she still love? you. No. What we doing with $75,000? Live it hopefully. That pre- or post-taxas? We'll make it post-taxed. I mean, nah. Don't know about, don't know why. Don't know if you in tune because you are on the internet. You work a lot. Yes, I do. But you can see these young girls, it's young girls getting on streams that are streamers now that saying that they don't want a man that don't make over a million dollars. a year. He got 20, 20 years old.

Do they understand how few people in the world make $10 million a year? Nope. They don't. Because when you say, okay, I want a man that's, let's say, over six foot tall, you're talking about probably less than 8% of the population. Well, I want a man that's educated, got at least a master's degree, maybe a secondary degree, you shrink it even more. I want a man to make 10 million. Now you're talking about half a percent.

So you want a man that's over six foot tall, that's educated, that's well-burst, that likes to travel, makes $10 million a year. Now, that man, with all those attributes that you want, that don't want you. No, but I want all of y'all. And that's what they don't understand. Like, they're all fishing for the same dude. Yes. And the sick part about it is that, like, I respect the women that actually go get bread

they self and that are successful themselves, but they don't want to invest into no man that don't got as much as them. So on a flip side of things, that's what has come to for us in the position that we are. Like, we got to blindly just trust that a woman really likes us and that we don't care. Man, when I meet a woman, I don't care if she ain't got to have nothing. True. We're going on Las Vegas Boulevard right now and wake up a homeless woman off the street. I can go take her to Miami.

They call with me. Put the ass on. Up to me. She'll love me for life. You really changed her life. Yeah. But then you got the other woman that think that that's the entitlement. that come with it because she used to dealing with a lot of successful men,

but they never wiped her. Right. It was only temporary. Yes. Like, a lot of the successful men got some women that's respectfully not as beautiful as the women and as they side pieces, but they're more thorough and they're at home and they know where they lost, Eli. Wow.

It's, uh, I read somebody, somebody said that. I heard it. They say men want to accumulate money to take care of others. Mm-hmm. Women want to accumulate money to become independent. True. It's sad, but it's true. Because women will say, I'm not changing who I am.

I'm a blah, blah, blah. Man says, I love you. I'll change. See, but the thing is, though, men, us as men, we be lying too. When we're ready to change. We got to put the fine print. Like, I'm going to change when I'm ready to change. So you're going to wait it out.

Yeah. Or you ain't. Right. And that's really what the reality of this whole situation is. But I'm trying to find a balance because it's. It's like, man, Shannon, be living in an eight-bedroom house, dolo. I ain't got no dogs. That's no, you got the dogs.

Yeah, I got three dogs, yeah. That's why I, it's kind of, you know, when my most depressing part of my life is the holidays. When everything shut down and don't nobody want to work no more in the studio, I got to give grace to all my staff. Yeah, kids and all. Now you just sit at the phone looking at matching pajamas and all this other bullshit. You want to cry. You sit there drinking eggs. And all crying and shit.

Yeah. But January 1st, it, New Year's Eve, they back outside. We back to work. So is it a... You can be alone and not be lonely. You can be lonely and not be alone. True. Or you can be alone and still be lonely.

And still be lonely. I mean, I think for a large portion of my life, I was like, man, why don't I just like, I could just be Eddie Murphy from boomer. rang. I just have a new girl with me every other day of the week do whatever I'm doing

but that's still also that's hard for work too it's also draining and it's a lot of different personalities that you gotta be in other stuff like I'm just like

I'm just at a point in my life where it ain't like man I do want kids though Shannon I don't lie yeah you gotta get you better get to

but the thing else but here you don't wait at this long man don't have I mean be with that woman that's what I'm saying I mean, be with her.

Be with her. Because in all things being equal, yeah, I have three kids and they're beautiful. They're all graduate. My youngest daughter is in residency as a doctor. But if I could do anything over again, I would have all my kids from one woman. That's my really, I love my kids and they're great. They've never given me any problem. And thankfully, knock on wood, none of them have my personality.

But I would, that's what I would do. And that's what I would tell you. One woman. One woman. one woman. Yo, have you noticed that like people are getting crazier and crazier as the days progress? Yeah, probably. Like, it's these phones.

Like, it's just the thought process of it. You know what it is? It's the street committee. It's the internet. Because when I was growing up and probably until, you know, the late 2010s, early, you know, there wasn't no internet. There was no social media. We get so caught up into trying to please living our life for something. someone else. I mean, I mean, really? When I get on the internet, I'm like, damn, I'm broke.

I see women with all these urn mask bags and all these shoes and they're on private planes and they got G-waggers and they got range rovers and they got, I'm like, well, damn, my life sucks. FOMO, that's what they sell into these girls, man, fear missing out. But in reality, like, we know what the type of girls, foe. Yeah. So you basically, I should go get some weak shit Like a cool, like six, seven. Get your solid. Get your solid. Solid.

Solid seven with some good, you know. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, they're the one, probably more. I want better looking babies. But them, them the one that probably got, they got a lot, they got a lot of, they got a lot of, they got a lot of trade on the time. Yeah. You know, the more you go up to eight, nine, tens.

It don't, it don't, it don't be as good as that, that, that, that, you can get some good mid. I'm talking about. Man, see, you're going to get me in trouble, man. Yeah. Man, these two, let's get off the women, yeah, yeah. So after your parents are divorced, your mom ends up getting the home,

your dad ends up moving into one of the apartments in the city. So now where you was having to, you know, get back to the city, you're in the city. I'm in it. You're right there smack down. Is that kind of when you kind of just like? Yeah. I wasn't getting no crack in the suburbs.

It was like, it made like, okay, so if I'm trying to appease to all these different rappers, I'm trying to get a record deal that the goal at that time was to get signed by a Jay-Z or DMX or somebody in that rough riders or these type of lanes. So I'm talking about I was Pablo Escobar in my rap's at 13. I got bricks and this and that and blah blah blah blah. I wasn't talking about I was like bad bow wow. Right. Me and Balw had beef at the time.

When I first got out, I first got out of record deal, I was bad bow. bow wow right and he was bow wow he had Mickey Mouse chained yeah yeah I wasn't on that like like I had guns and Mickey Mouse you know what I'm shooting at Mickey Mouse I'm doing all type of shit like that so it really was like I had to be authentic to in my mind I thought I have to be but now that I'm older right now I know that it was all bullshit but it just celebrate your pride with the station that's as bold vibrant and diverse as you are I heart pride Kinda from dance anthems to pop icons and hits from 2SLGBTQ plus Canadian artists.

It's the soundtrack that keeps life loud and proud. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. Come together, celebrate love. Pride. Pride. Let's go. With IHart Pride Canada.

I'm Bowen-Yen. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2026 winner Olympic Games, We've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This show contains information subject to,

but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This your boy, Nav Green, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs.

They're cheese. What's a rap? It's time to rebuild. Who's your MVP right now, then? Drake May up there, Josh Allen up there still. Oh, my boy, Matthew Stafford. Where did he have all right? Nick's at.

He ain't too far behind. He did all this talk. What Matthew Stafford is doing statistically, bro, it's crazy. Bro, you know, I ain't no Josh Allen fan. But Matthew Stafford got better weapon. Caleb Williams. Hey, he should be in that conversation. In what conversation?

He should be in it. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcast. It was authenticity. And I think it bled through the music when I was actually doing. when you actually taking them risk, when you actually living like that, it adds a little edge to you. It adds, and only that, the guys that I got these, my deal with and that took me to these places to get seen by these people, they were the biggest drug dealers in Chicago.

Damn. Yeah, like, these guys, like, they had it all. And, like, we had a building on Halst it, 70-second a hostet that the guy had owned and they transitioned into a music studio. So that's why I also didn't go home, too, because he had a studio with the baby. And I'm talking about like they laid their thing out for me. Now, mind you back then, Shannon, I was young. I was talking about selling crack. I ain't got no pussy yet.

I was a straight version. I ain't went through puberty yet. I'm talking bald eagle. I mean, hold on, you, you, you, you sell the drugs. That's the whole party. You're supposed to have the women. Bro, listen, let me tell you the crazy shit. I lost my virginity to two prostitutes.

So, like, I'm around these guys. Well, they hooked you up. See, they had you. They were doing somersaults on you. You're like, it's like this all the time. I never forget it. One of the girls, it was strawberry and damn, I forget the other girl name. And I ain't going to lie.

They threw me in the room. It reminds me like, like, little Wayne, how he said he lost in Virginia. He said Birdman was like, hey, go suck little Wayne dick. He just sent the old woman. I was literally like 14. These girls had to be like 25, 26, 27, and they sent them in there. And they went to have their way with me. You ain't, you ain't, you ain't, you ain't,

try to stop him, though, huh? Hell, no. Why, you think I ain't want to go home, boy? We smoking weed, we drinking. These girls taking advantage of me, man, I'm thinking I'm living a lot. I'm a rapper. I'm a real rapper. Right.

So you're like, oh, so this way, I mean, drugs, alcohol, women. Mm-hmm. This is the trifecta. I hit it. Yeah, bro, I started off with smoking, drinking. I think I was drinking and smoking by 11. That ill. I think I took my first ecstasy pill at 13.

Like we, this Chicago, you edit like that. Like this is just normal. This is a normal light. Like, so when you see like a G-Hirbo and like how we talking about, boy, this shit normal. Like, it's overly normal for what's going on in the city, for real, for real. Did the streets give you the attention that your parents, mom, dad didn't give you? Because it seemed like your dad tried to give you everything that he wanted. He did.

Everything that you wanted. Your dad tried to give it. But that was just, and like you said, you had a trust fund. Your mom, your dad had buildings. Your mom was gamefully employed. You had everything. There was no reason for you to dark down the path, although it turned out very well for you, to go down the path that you went down. Was it attention that you was seeking?

What was it about the street that called you, that got its hooks in you, and you just couldn't shake until you got older? The streets came with the music. So it was always the music. Music was number one. Okay. The streets just came with the music because. the funding for the music came for the streets. Okay.

So it was just a part of just, it was just one hand-washed-the-other type of situation. So I wasn't searching for attention from the streets. I was searching for validation for how good I knew I was. Like, I'm really him. I'm one of them. I'm better than bow-wows. I'm bad bow-wow.

Right. That was like my whole little scheme at that moment. You mentioned that your mom basically had you kidnapped and sent to a boarding school. Correct. and you go to this school. So what's a typical day like? At the school?

At the school. Boom. You wake up at what time? Try like six. Okay. You freshen up, hit the workout, go eat breakfast. Now, breakfast, depending on what level you at, how your breakfast look. If you're at level one, it's that oatmeal, one boiled egg, and gone about your way.

That's it? That's it. No sugar in the oatmeal, no. butter, no brown sugar, no nothing, just the lumped up and an egg. That's level one. And water, water did you get milk, orange juice? Nah, hell not, water. Level three?

Yeah. That motherfucker jazzed up, raisins, walnuts, motherfucking brown sugar, the whole, you get that salt and pepper for your egg or whatever, you get that, boom, then you go to school. So mind you in school, say you're catting off in school and you messing up in school. They send you to this place called Worksheets. Worksheets is like detention for the school, so you're going to. You got to go in there, sit on a wooden plank or whatever, like, and just sit there and just stare at the wall for five hours.

If your head move in the slightest form from that shit, violation, five more hours. So you keep sitting there. So now you act up in there. They send you to this shit called The Hobbit. The Hobbit different. The Hobbit, it's like a hotel for some bullshit. Like, you're going to stay there. You don't even go back to your own camp or whatever.

Right. They send you to the Hobbit. This is what your meals is and a hobbit. So boom, it's literally a wooden board with some, with some carpet on top of it. That's your bed. Your breakfast is a piece of bread and a slice of cheese. Your lunch is...

Hello, a piece of bread and slice of cheese. Mind you, your parents paying $5,000 per month for you to be in this program. Like maybe 10. I think it was like 10. They spent my whole advance for me to be in this program. Like, for them people to come kidnap me or whatever, I think that shit called like $7,500 for them to wake. bro they got a shit on netflix there's a whole documentary about this shit like niggas come wake you up out your sleep and just come kidnap you out your house so boom you in a hobbit lunch is a lime bean burrito so it's just a tortilla with lime beans inside of it ain't no meat or nothing nah and dinner you go back to that slice of bread and that cheese now you act up at the hobbit that's when you they ship your ass in jama and that's how i went that was my that was how my stay was yeah you would you were you were you were you were you were you were you were you were you were you

was on one. I was signed. I was an artist. Like, look, this is how the mind games they play with you right? No, you're the artist outside of there. You're not an artist in there. Yeah, I was an inmate there. Like, I ain't going to lie. Like, that shit was worse than Juvenile. Like, and all the other shit. Like, I went to Juvie? It was worse than Juvie. They played mind games with you in there, Shamed. And look, while you in there, they're telling you how much of a piece of shit you are for the shit you did. And then while your parents got you in there, they got seminars happening that your parents fly to to where they go, they got other parents that got

success stories or that they got in pocket to say, no, this is the best thing for your kid. This is the success. Meanwhile, they're up there raping. They up there doing all type of shit. It's just a sick, sick place, bro. So they tell them what, but there ain't nobody telling your parents about the horror stories

that your kids are doing. They just tell them the great side of it. Bro, they think that we walk in, holding hands, kumbaya and all this other shit and all in there killing themselves, gang. Wow. You signed the DMX at what, 13, 14? Mm-hmm.

How did that situation happen? Wow. So, damn, this is a crazy story. So at that time, like I told you, I had the street dudes that was taking care of everything or whatever. We go to L.A. A trunk of the little, the King Vaughn entourage of us is 20 of us, 25 of us, all street dudes. So we go out there and there's a guy. his name was Joe exclusive.

He a gay guy. He is a stylist that this dude named D1 who was a part of the label had connects with. So him being a stylist, he was at a bunch of different places. So we got invited

to what these bribed from a video shoot for DMX. So we go to the Paramount Lout. I'm there. Vibing. I ain't going to lie. At that time, I'm like four foot four,

Shannon. Like, you know what I was saying? I told you I ain't went through puberty yet. I had all the bricks. I ain't went through puberty yet. I'm like, four foot four.

Okay. So we on set and I never forget this DMX walk with me. You're like, yo, Jordy, I'm gonna go do this real quick. I'll be right back. And he opened up his hand. He had a bunch of weed in it. You know what I'm saying? You're like, yo, I'm gonna go smoke pretty much and come back.

So boom, he goes smoke. They send me in a trailer. And they like, yo, rap for him. So at that time, I thought my fly-ish shit was like some Chicago shit. So I was like, I was thinking, I don't know if I think of the tent smoke of him. Y'all better repent. The fast twister type flow or whatever. He's like, I don't know what the f*** you just said.

You got another one? So I do another one for him and the whole trailer go crazy. Alia in the trailer, all these different people, whatever. Now, mind you, I'm four foot four. So I'm really a kid. Like, it don't look like I look younger than I really am. So from there, we lead a video shoot that next day. I'm on top of the world.

I'm super excited about it. I'll come back to the video the next day because it's in a three-day video shoot. Hype Williams has shot the video. It's that type of budget. Okay, okay. So we had day two now. He told me come back. I come back.

He playing my demo out his trailer, blasting my shit. Soon as I walk, like a movie, like when I get to the set, my shit playing out his trailer now. He's going crazy. He's like, shuddy, I'm going to sign you. Not going to be fast, but I'm going to sign you. That time, shit, we had Jay-Z. We had all these different people. But I never forget DMX, my favorite artist.

It's the same year that he dropped the two albums, Flesh, my Flesh, blood, and my blood. And then the other, and then that was X. I think they both dropped in the same year. So at that point, that was like the year before I met him. For Christmas, I asked my dad for DMX CD. And then that following spring, I met the trailer with him. And he playing my shit out, his trailer. So he ended up doing that, ended up signing me.

And that was the turn of our relationship. If you could do it over, is there anything you would do differently about that situation? Yeah. Yeah, multiple things. I wouldn't have let that gun go off in that house that he got me, beautiful townhouse and then deeper than that I would have just understood what he was going through I ain't know what he was going through or what demons he was fighting or what his battles was at the time so I always was upset because I felt like I could have got more attention or we

could have been doing more different things but it's so hard to be the guy and then to try to put other people on so in my career that's what I always wanted to do I wanted to have attention to the people that are actually working with me to make sure they got what they're supposed to get out the situation, but I don't have the crate. You know, Shannon, I ain't going to know. DMX movie. He's like one of the most interesting guys I ever met. Like, I'll never forget.

We in Toronto, Canada. We stand at the Sutton Place Hotel. Remember I told you I lost my virginity. Yeah. To, uh, to... He took my first piece of... Oh, you're supposed to get some of the heat? Man, listen.

So... Oh, come on, man. Listen. We're in Toronto, right? And DMX love pool. Man, love pool, halls, and shit like that. that. So I mind you, they got me in a club with the pool hall. But DMX at that time, he had police following him around in Toronto. He was like the mayor Toronto. Like, I seen that send a police

to the hotel to go get a pound the weed for him. Squad car police. Damn. Yeah, like, he was having his way. So we in the pool hall. I never forget it, man. Like, it's a bunch of groupies around. You know what I'm saying? I'm the young guy, whatever. So, like, I got me a girl. I'm vibing with her. And then I'm in the, like, it's time to go. So, like, I'm in, with the entourage. He in the front, you know what I'm saying, his car. I'm in the back in the truck with the entourage. I got the girl with me.

We get to the hotel, they like, send a dog up first. The dog gotta go up first. So he go to his room first. We all still waiting on the car and the cars get out. So I get out. His room, he got the presidential suite. I probably got the room right next to the nigga, I ain't gonna lie.

So we get there, I got the girl with me. I've been making out with the girl in the car. Oh, you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do that. Boy, I got up through that damn room and put my key. It's like a dog for real, though. Rest in peace, X. He was like a bloodhound, bro. I'm talking about I was putting my key in the door.

His door swing open. He's like, yo, showy, what you doing? And who is that? And then she's like, hey, da-da-law. He's like, uh, hey, my mom, I think you left your purse in my room. Mind you, we ain't. We didn't be downstairs. Brother.

Hit, I know you ain't falling for the okie-dote. Yeah, I did. Shit, I did, I DMX. She left. She left with that. I went back in my room. I had to wait for the prostitutes. Oh man

DMX one of the best people ever and he got that too he told me the next morning like yeah I handled that for you No I could have done that bro I had that I had that under control

I thought let me give you one more about X man yo so look we in the studio he's making a song called Do You with Irv Gotti rest in peace to Irv Gotti we all in the studio we in Toronto we doing a song

at that point Shay I ain't gonna lie I saw X He used to do the Remmy Martin Vosop, the grand crew. Yeah. So he drank two-fifths by himself. And we're still able to stand up, walk around. Recorded the song, did whatever, two-fifths by himself.

We leave. His wife at the time, I think, was with us. Shout out to my brother Ali. It was a bunch of us or whatever. I'm riding the car with him. Boy, we get to the car. He must have left something in the car to key the car in the studio. Let me tell you this shit, Sean.

Like, no, for real? All right, whatever. He lay on the ground like a dog. It starts crying like a dog. And he fell asleep on a concrete in the street by the bins. What? And you know the rule, right? Don't nobody wake the dog while he's sleep.

So now we just sitting out there by a binns while this cry like a dog and go to sleep for four hours. You can't wake the dog while he sleep. Lord of mercy. I'm keeping the hundred Keeping it a brick with you Can't wake the dog while he's sleep You lose your job waking a dog while he's sleep Sherman

So y'all just staring around this man Lay it on the concrete Dead ass I'm not lying he's laying in the middle of the street Police with us the whole thing Bro, ours That's how big he was Wow

It was colossal It's hard to believe that in the late 90s There was any rapper in the world Big of the Nix I'm almost in full belief in Jay-Z my favorite rapper all the time, but I think DMX was bigger than Jay-Z at that point. Oh, I believe it. I can believe it.

If you're talking about the late 90, early 2000, like 90, 97, 98, 2000, 2001? Yeah. Absolutely. Unbelievable times, man. For real, for real. God. So let me ask you this. How did you

get out of the boarding school? So you must have behaved at some point in time, or you just got too treacherous? They're like, we can't do nothing with this. Hell no. What happened? My daddy and my mama having a little turmoil that's going on and I don't know what they were going through or what landed on his heart. But that man drove up there and got on a flight, got a renting car and came to Thompson Falls, Montana and came and got me out that program after probably like 10 months. Did you ever call and say, Dad, this place is safe for me? Ain't no phone. So you can, so there's no contact with really with the outside world.

Ain't no phone. Ain't no newspaper. Ain't no TV. I ain't know nothing. I just told you 9-11 happened. I ain't even know what happened. Wow. Yeah, you cut off from the world completely. So it had to be something on your dad's heart. Man. That he got, that he took a flight and drove up there and said, I'm going to get my son.

And when we were riding, he telling me, like, man, you know, I know you love this music shit. Like, I know you can't really, like, you were wrong, but I think you had enough. Like, you don't deserve, like, you did a lot of accomplishments to get to this level. You did a lot of bad, but you did some good at the same time. And the first thing we did, we went to Target.

I got that Jay-Z blueprint. I got that Nize. I AM album and then I was off to the races from that. So where did you go after he comes and get you and you get on a flight and you fly back? So where did you go? I moved in his house. So you moved with him back in Chicago. So how did you end up in L.A.?

All right. So I'm living with him in Chicago. He starts paying for studio time for me and helping me develop my shit. And then I become Shana, hype man. Okay. So at that time, like one of my friends who lived in L.A., he was like a serious, weed man and he starts sending up me and my people's like 100 pounds of weed every every week so you got to break that down and get off it yeah i was going breaking it down getting money being in the

streets or whatever doing whatever getting my little money i became shana hype man i went around the country with her because she had getting some head at that time she was now she was with d tp with ludicrous and okay yeah yeah so her career going crazier and crazier and then from them i'll I end up meeting Troy Carter and Jay Irvin because I knew Eve from DMX. Okay. So Eve was like a big sister to me. And Troy Carter and Jay Irvin was Eve managers at the time. They ended up meeting me taking a liking of me and they moved me to L.A.

So you moved to the L.A.? You ended up moving in with Eve? Yeah, to a certain degree for sure. I used to live, I ain't going to lie. Like I had my spot, but then when shit got bad and I wasn't getting no money, I used to live at the UPN lot. Remember Eve had that TV show? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I used to sleep in her dressing room or whatever. They used to have to come wake me up before I shit. I used to sleep on the lot. Damn. Trying to make this shit happen, man. Eve was so good to me, salute to Eve. But she changed your name to Young Bird. Yeah.

My name was Iceberg. Like, I used to wear a lot of Iceberg, Clothing Line back in the day, whatever. So my name was Iceberg. And this around the time when, like, everything was young, young, hove, young this, and she was like, she called me Youngberg, and that's how my whole name changed. And it stuck. Yeah. So how much did you write on the,

on her album, did she let you write a label? For sure. Her last album that she driver was called Evolution. I ended up writing the title track with her or whatever. I did the hook on that. And that was like my first real writing placement in a game as someone that was like writing for another artist. She was so graceful to allow me to go in the studio,

salute to Teflon, who made the beat her. And I ended up writing the hook. And she kept my vocals on it. And that was just like the start of everything. I'm like, oh, shit. So prior to that, prior to that, you had only wrote for yourself. And so, because who was I talking to? I had Snoop dog early on the club Shayshayshay.

And Hove wrote Still Dre. I'm like, Snoop, how does someone write a song for someone else? And it sounds just like Dre actually wrote that song, Still Dre Day. I'm like, how did he do that? He's like, you just have to be the person, know the person, know how what he's sounds like. So you had been around Eve enough to kind of knew, the kind of how she would sound, the words that she would use, because that's, you know, when you do stuff like that, you have to be able to really, you become Eve to an extent when you actually write this vocal.

See, and I was little bro too, and she gave me an opportunity. So I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, like, I didn't come into it knowing that I would even have that opportunity. I was just little bro who she believed in and she allowed to be around. And then, when they gave me that Ali-oop, and with me being around her, I'm like, man, I can't drop the ball on this. Right. And she ended up loving it.

Like, I was super surprised that she even ended up loving it because I went and it turned to, it was crazy. It was like, it was the same process. I went in there, had some drinks, smoke some weed,

got in the booth, did the hook immediately or whatever. She came in. She loved it. She redid the hook. And then shit, it was on the album. She's married now.

I think she has a kid. She up, up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She leveled up. I don't even think she remembered me no more. Do you see her rapping again? Hell no. You see me rapping again?

I catch a beat, hell no. You done, you done if you get a beat? I'm gonna be honest with you, Shanna. I think I'm at a place where I'm comfortable now where I can be done. I don't even have to do anything. Oh, you're gonna pull a hole? I could stop doing anything.

But to me it's like, the job not done yet, I gotta make some more people millionaires. Like, I gotta put some more people in position. I think that that's really like. Like my whole, you ever realize that you really just blessed to be a blessing? Yes. And I just, that's my whole forte right now. Right.

One of your biggest songs early in your career was sexy can I with Ray J. Uh-huh. When you're writing that, when you're in the studio with Ray J, do you have any idea that this record's going to take off? Fuck no. Do you ever have an, like when you, I don't know. I hated it. I hated it.

Why? So at that time, my first hit was called Sexy Lady, right? Right. And then I had another song called The Business with my artist, and I was really trying to build my label, too. You know what I'm saying? So my artist was on the song, and that's still a cult classic. It's multi-platinum to this day, too.

But I wanted to go to that song next. Right. But the head of my company, Salute to Charlie Walt. He was the head of Epic Records at the time, and I never forget it, man. I wouldn't do that damn song. Ray J. and them, they kept asking I wouldn't do the song. And I come inside this man office, and this man got to be about 5'3. and he tap dancing on his piano to the song, Sexy Can I.

I think he's on Coke too. I ain't know what was going on. Like he got like, he gave you that little vibe too. And he's like, yo, it's gonna be the biggest song of your career. I'm like, what? Nah, hell, no. He like, I'm like, bro, I'm gonna be the sexiest man in the world. My single out right now on Hot 100 is sexy lady.

Now I'm coming with Sexy Can I? What the hell name my album? I'm too sexy. Like, no, like yo, bro, like I want to go to this next song. He's like, it's going to be the biggest song of your career. He's like, what's going to take for you to do the song? I'm like, man, buy me a chain, man. Call Jason and Bailey Hills, man.

Give me an epic record's chain. Show me how serious you are about this record. I'll get you good. So that's what you tell Ray J. No, I told this to Charlie Walker. The president of the company that he said to. Yes. So he like, I bet.

Call him up. He buy the chain. So I'm like, oh, it's getting made? Oh, I bet. Say less, I'll end up doing a song. in Miami at the same studio that I work at her right now. Wow. Yep.

Called Circle House, salute to BB, his father. You know, that studio is so legendary. You have a cop's bad boys, bad boy. And the Circle is their studio. The people that sing the song that do that. So it's a legendary studio. So I end up doing a song there.

And then from there, it was like, all right, bad, I think this is going to be something. And I think that when I knew it was going to be really good, it came back out to L.A. to finish the song with Ray J. And it's me in the studio. Tierra Marie is with Ray J. That's his girlfriend at the time.

I ain't even know it was Tierra Marie. I thought she was a bad chick because I didn't know what was going on. And I had the girl that sang the hook on my song. That was my artist who I was also dating at the time too. I never forget this session, Shanna. We come in there. He got a gun on the table. I'm like, what is Ray J on right now?

Right. I'm thinking, Ray J. Come on, bro. He got a gun. He just did this. deal with Vivid for Kim Kardashian for the porn or deal to they end up doing. He like, man, you don't, I'm in my vibe right now, Berg. Like, I don't even want to, like, I don't want to disrespect your woman.

Can I put these on? And he put on a, he showed me a bunch of, like, vivid DVDs of porn. Yeah. So he won't watch porn while we doing the song. What? Yeah, on the big screen. He won't play. No, I'm good, cuss.

It was his session. I'm like, you do the f*** you want to do. It's your session. I don't know what you. I mean, I'm coming to do it in your shit. I don't know what you all, but okay, go here. Boy, he playing that shit. So we're finishing the song.

I'm doing like ad libs on the song and finishing the song. We're putting the final touches on together. He's like, let me go in the booth one more time, man. I got to do it one more time. So he's going there and he's hitting this note. He's like, can I just have some fun? He's going off with it.

I'm like, what is this thing doing? Tierra Marie like, boy, if you don't shut your ass up with this bullshit. She in a control room with me. She clowning him. He's like, girl, it's my Stevie. This is my Stevie Wonder. I'm trying to hit my Stevie at the end.

She's like, yo Stevie. And then from there, song came out, and I'll never forget it, man. That shit skyrocketed as soon as it dropped. I don't know how it happened, the perfect storm of situations, but it's skyrocketed as soon as it dropped. And then, I mean, the video shoot is a whole other different story. You know I went to jail on the side of the video, right? How?

We there, first shot of the day. I'm smoking a blunt or whatever. We got police securing us on the set. I hit the blunt. I throw a roach out. Police come. He must have been having a bad day. He picked up that roach, smelt it.

He said, is he a lead guy, principal on this video? They said, yeah, not today. Lock me up in Miami, the first shot of the video, put the cuffs on me, took me to jail in Dade County. So now I'm in jail. I'm like, damn, this shit is crazy. I'm freezing, though. Like, I think I had like a tank top on.

You know, they throw you in that jail. I'm in that freeze and they try to get me bologna sandwich. They don't know I ain't ever had a sandwich before in my life. I'm like, hey, yo, these niggins is tripping. I'm trying to get out. Next thing I know, probably like six hours later, they like, Ward, you can get up out of here now. Guess who bailed me out of jail? Who?

Shaquille O'Neill. You lie on everything. Shaquille O'Neill and Ray J had a partnership for Sexy Kenna with that record. It was on Shaq record label. Shack came and bailed me out of jail. Wow. And that's how I get back to the video set to complete the video. You wouldn't even know it because the video tricks in the editing, but like, bro, like, I was

going, it was nighttime by the time I got back to the video. I got back, filmed the video, and it became a success. Prior to this song, had you ever met Ray J before? Once or twice. And I was just like, not like as a friend or not like that, I was a fan of his album with one wish on it or whatever. And then not only that, he was Ray J, he was hitting everybody. So I'm like,

yo, this is my kind of guy. They've got to be around me. I got to get some of these fruits of his. Like, what's up, man? What are we doing? And that's how we linked. Did you know Ray J was this crazy? Mm-hmm.

He always been like this? Mm-hmm. Let me tell you something, say. Once sexy can I took off, rest in peace, him and Whitney Houston was a thing. There were a couple.

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During this season of the Two Guys' Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bois, hi, Matt, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie.

Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This show contains information subject to,

but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This is your boy Nav Green from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here. But guess what?

It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. They're cheese. Oh, it's a rap.

It's time to rebuild. Who's your MVP right now then? Drake May up there, Josh Allen up there still. Oh, my boy, Matthew Stafford. Where did his Bull Knicks at? He ain't too far behind. He did all this talk about.

What Matthew Stafford is doing statistically, bro, is crazy. Bro, you know I ain't no Josh Allen fan, but Matthew Stafford got better weapon. Caleb Williams. Hey, he should be in that conversation. In what conversation? He should be in it. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network

on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or whatever you get your podcast. That's when I knew this crazy. Wow. And when I say crazy, not in a bad way, but like, look, we in your stomping ground. So sexy cannot go on crazy. We in Atlanta. And Ray, like, man, I got a surprise tonight, boy, you're going to love this.

I'm like, what? He's like, you're going to love it. Next thing I know, we at the hotel Whitney with Ray. So he like, Whitney coming to compound with us tonight. We got to show a compound. He's like, Whitney coming with us to compound. We're going to go crazy. I'm like, what?

Yeah, what? bro you're not this shit is a movie so we get in the SUV Ray J sitting like in a back back Whitney's sitting right here I'm sitting right here so we get the compound now Whitney's a real like for real for real like we ain't got no liquor she like send the me me some patrol they come out with the gallon of patrol me and Whitney

drinking out the batron two hands drinking out the bottle like this chain smoking cigarettes together talking shit Wow, wow. And she went in there and she supported us while we was in there on stage. Whitney Houston was on stage with us in Compound while we did the record. Wow. It's pictures of and all type of shit on the Internet and this and the third. But here go the craziest part.

We get back to the hotel, Shay. I ain't trying to blast it up or whatever. So, you know, Rachel Ad Dogg. So we left compound. I know he. Listen to me. We left compound. So now he's like, how many extra rooms you got?

Because you know how you move in. Like you got a room for this, that the third, some, a couple of my peoples that left. I got a couple of them and shit, whatever. He's like, let me get that extra room. I'm like, all right, bet. So I give him the key. So now I'm looking for him or whatever.

I go to his room. Boy, I go in a room. It's like a sweet walk around, boom, boom. You know Whitney getting undressed in the room and Ray J. Room. She's like, get out of here, Youngberg? I'm like, oh shit. Me up, man.

Because Ray J was down the hall with one of my little joints. You got to get him. You had him on him? I have. Oh, boy. I show we didn't know this story. Yeah, we're different. Where, to see Whitney and she, I'm not saying she's the top three voice. Yeah, you are. You are. Woman's voice all time, and I'm not saying she two or three. Were you in awe when you said, man, this is Whitney Houston. Hell yeah. This is Whitney Mofo Houston. Hell yeah. She had that glow, bro. She had that aura. You know how people talk about aura right now and all that stuff? Like she had it.

But you want to know what it was? It was very rich though. Like I thought it was like, you know how you watch Whitney? And it's like, yo, you're thinking like, and I always love. Yeah, you're all glad up and she got the gown on and everything. Whitney going to let you know she's from Newark. Don't play. Rest in peace. No cap. So when they, you're in jail. And they say, Howard, you good.

go. Okay, you know you're getting up out of there. Did you have any idea that it was going to be Shaq that came and got you up out of the hell? No. Did you know that Ray J was like on his label anything? Yeah, I knew. But who really thinking about at the time? This was the time when he was with the heat and he was a sheriff or whatever, yeah. So who really thinking that that was the case? Like he ended up being at the video later that night and all that other stuff too or whatever so we were able to put all the piece together. But it was the first shot of it. I ain't never met Shaq It's full in my life. Wow.

So when you got in the car, what did Shaq say to you? Come on, little man. I'm just like, you're trying. Nah, man, salute to Shaq. Was that the only time that you ever, have you ever had any other interaction with Shaq after that point? Hell no. He just deal with all the same women that I deal with. That boy, Shaq is Savage.

Yeah, let's go ahead on. We're going to boo. We go, though. But recently, Ray J said that it's hard. It's only functioning at 25%. And he doesn't have much time. He said, I mean, I think I read where he said 27, 2027, he'd definitely go be out of here.

When you hear stuff like that, do you, I mean, it's hard. Don't tell you for to call Ray J. I would love to. Yeah. But look, I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you what I said. Because you know, I can't, I got to be, look at, look at my last text one. Okay, I'm done.

All the way at the bottom, the last thing I said. You trolling. Yeah, with the question of my, I don't know what you doing. You trolling, gang. Like, what's up? Are you trolling? Yeah, okay, I'm done. Crashout campaign is officially a rap after today.

Just one more. After today, it's over. You at 140 p.m., you troll it. Yeah, bro. That's really my brother, Shay. Like, I don't know. But, I mean, if that is the case, like, man, I don't like it. And I'm going to be right there for him, whatever I can do.

Because he changed my life. That's a 10 million seller. Right. What was it like being a teen star? You get in this business, you're 14 years of age. And you start ascending right away. And you have access. You're around DMX.

You're around EVE. You're at Ray J. And Shaq come bail, you're out of jail. So you're around some of the biggest. musical artists in the game. What's that like for you? I don't know. I was wild.

I was even wilder than I was as a kid. I used to wake up every day in Papa Ecstasy. It's beat wild and just like a terror. Just like a bad person. Do you remember a whole lot about that? Hell yeah. Every moment of it. Like, there was some of the greatest times of my life.

Like, I ain't going to lie. Like, I don't shy away from that. And I blame Jaru and all them for that for me doing ecstasy and all the other stuff. Because you got to remember, I was at the Murder Inc. Mansion. at the heyday of when they was doing all that type of stuff or whatever. And when I seen Chiru take an ecstasy and make them type of songs, I said, that's why I'm going. That's what you do it.

And I went. I don't really know how to ask this question. I asked it. But you said it. You said there were times when you were on the screen tour that mothers would hand-deliver their daughters. Correct. Correct. See, Shannon, this pre-instagrant, we were working.

Wowing. Yeah. Like, I would go to the radio station with my people and be like, uh, call it 99. You know how everybody on the shit. We am, we at Hot 97. Yo, we in New York. Uh, ain't on Instagram. 310.

253. Da-da-da-da-da. Call my man right now. We're going to go there meet us at the other. We were whaling out like on a whole other level. So I've definitely like been hand delivered like a woman like, yo, like this is my daughter. I think she's a great look for you. I think I see where you going.

Would you mind like taking her home with you tonight? A mother give you. That's why I said I'm damaged. Because I've seen the money outlook early when I was still pure. When I wanted that real love and that real connection or whatever, I seen the motives. So it's like, and I wasn't even as rich as I am now. And that was great for me. You let your guard down.

Think about it. Here you are. You say you're about to be 40. You got in the game. So you've been in this thing for a quarter century. And you've seen it all, done it all, hurt it all. Is that any way he can let his guard down and say, baby, I trust you. And let somebody get that close to it.

Yeah, it's coming soon. But I think the situation just has to be so beautiful. Or it either has to be so left field or it has to be so in my field that we, We both. This is what the real, man, damn. Nobody want to say this. Settling down is a very, like,

to women or to other people has a bad connotation on it. Because you think about it, settling. Nobody wants to settle. We going to have to. Yeah. It might not be as dramatic or as drastic as someone thinking

that, oh, you're going to have to deal with a man having 20 kids behind your back or whatever. You're settling in some degree. Right. I might, here's an example. Sexually. I could not be

I could be overly satisfied and I could be not satisfied in another dynamic of what she might can't cook. Right. She might, I'm settling. Right. The woman's settling too. She might want a man that can just go to work, 9 to 5, come home to her, give her all the attention that she

won't and be there for her. If she deal with me, she's settling. If that's what her vision is. So I think that us as men and women, we got to come to the table and say, yo, I'm comfortable with settling down. Yeah. I'm a settle it some way. But here, you do realize that you're never going to find

a woman that have every attributes that you're looking for. She's 5'10, she has this here, she has hair, she has a job, you know, she's built like an Athenian goddess. You're never going to conclude, she's educated, she's well versed,

you're not going to find somebody that has everything that she's going to be, even, she's going to wait on you, your beck and call because you've got to realize that she's got her own career, because now you're going to ask her, because she's going to ask you to do a little sacrificing because two people can't sacrifice in the relationship because somebody going to go to hell. If I don't find that the next two, three years, I got a lot of faith in Elon, how he

making them robots. That my budget going to be able to get it and it's going to be able to do whatever. Don't you want somebody to come? Don't you want somebody? Honey, I'm home. Hey, honey. How is your day? When you're having a bad day, like, hey, you just couldn't, you just couldn't get that

beat like you wanted it. And you got somebody that even that you haven't told her that something's going on bad, she knows you. I do. I want that. I think I want the kid dynamic one or anything, though. I would love to see like a little me, you know what I'm saying, pop out or whatever. And I just think that, like we said, like the women's situation is just all feelings based. I've been in situations with great women where they've allowed their feelings to outshine what the big picture is.

And it started, you know what I'm saying? And it's shit to spiraled out into another different direction. So to me it's like, man, I'm trying, unk or them robots coming. Hey, you do realize now if you get one, I mean, I guess they can. But I'm assuming that if you waited this long, you're going to be, you like basketball, one-on-one. Mm-hmm. Wait, what? I mean, you get this one?

Huh? Oh, here, come on. You think that's realistic for me to tell them. I'm in that shit. I'm only going to deal with her for the rest of my life as an OG. So you don't believe in monogamy or you don't believe in it for you? I believe in respect. How you respect?

What you don't know on her issue. As long as I'm doing it, I'm moving the way I'm supposed to move and I'm moving very tactical. You don't see nothing. I ain't in no blogs. It ain't nobody pressure. Yeah. Coming to you as a woman. So you try to move like Delta forth, like they wouldn't it over there, what you call about?

I'm trying to tell you. I'm trying to tell you. That's the only way to move, though. Like, it's certain cheaters. It's the cheater that just don't care. Right. He's reckless, careless with it. It's the cheater that, the double life cheater, the nigger that's spending the money that's putting somebody up and this and the third.

I think that cheater hurt more to your woman anyways because when she, he went to find out you allocating that money. Yeah, yeah. She got Birkins and got apartment and got a G-wagon, arranged. But don't know by, see, the phone messed it up because I think that when men initially start doing that, they were. paying for privacy. Like, I'm going to get you some money for you. Shut up. For my wife not to know about it.

For this not to be a thing. So I think that hurts more. And then there's the cheater that the passport bro cheater. The guy that's in Bali with some T's. You don't know what's going on. Well, with some T's. I thought it was just one. I thought it was going to be your wife, your girl.

You think I'm going to Mawfi Coast with one woman? I would yeah that's what I was thinking that's what that's what that came to my head no it's a group trip oh you got some the boys going with you so you know preferably not maybe like one or two oh my goodness

you must be on them sparks hell no I'm on that I'm gonna shayshay I'm on this La Portier you think women gonna sign up for that hell yeah you're in football you in sports right

You're in sports. You're in entertainment now. Yeah. But let's take it off me and you. Let's just go ahead and just put a blanket statement. You think anybody in NBA is faithful? I do. The one that's been locked in that had enough, the Eudonnas has them.

Yeah. You need definitely like, oh, yeah. About mine. You think that homeboy that got Drea only dealing with that? What's you feel about Drea? She 45? I like that. I like that too.

I don't, like I said, man, I don't really know. I'm, look, I mind my business. See? I get 12 hours. I get 24 hours of the day. 12 hours I mind my business. The other 12 hours, I stay out of everybody else's business. So I'm busy.

Right. This, I mean, and people like, well, she's this, she's that, and she's, that's, that's a grown man. That man can boat. He can buy alcohol. He can run a car. He can do all that stuff on his own. He knows what he doing. Well, I can look at how he moved him, can tell he ain't grown.

Like, he's still got some growing up. enough to do. But we all been there. Yeah, but he ain't ready. Hey, I don't know. Driel, come sit down and talk to me about it. Please, come sit down. Put us all down, we love you. You know what I'm saying? Respectfully. Yeah. I mean, I don't, look, I guarantee he's something other than her. Man, I don't, don't, don't see that here. Because I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to put that out there in the universe. Man, this is mad horny. You talking about, do I got Roman Sparks? Because I'm about to be 40. That nitty don't need no No, he don't need no spots.

He's more mad horny. Yeah, because I remember now that age. How many away games in the end of you? 41. Went 41-0? He lost one of them of my f***es. I hope, hey, bro. Hey, I hope you, Jayla, man.

I hope you faithful to your girl, Ray. I hope you, hey, I hope y'all good. I hope y'all locked there. Me too. Shit, they ain't got nothing to do that. It ain't, it ain't doing that. for me, so I wish y'all the best. Oh, my goodness.

You've been making money for a long time. Young age. What's one of your worst purchases? I see, I probably did it last year. I think I bought like 12 cars on one year. Twelve? Yeah. You one dude.

Why you need 12? Here, why you need 12? You know, I lived in L.A., so I wasn't doing a lot of driving. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I was more so, like, security pick me up, black truck, moved me around this down and the third.

When I got to Miami and they got to stand your ground law, you can have a firearm peacefully. And the way I move, I'll move like a rich white man. I'm not around no, like, negativity and no functions. I just went overboard. Hopefully you got rid of some of them. So now you got like two or three. Two or three is a good number.

I got three, but I'm thinking about the fourth one. Just because I never had it. I never had the yours, the truck. Okay. So I wanted to try it. Right now, I got the Spectra, I got the McLaren, and I got the cyber truck. You like the Cybertruck?

It's my trap car. You'd think I'm back in Chicago, selling crack again in that motherfucker. I treat that shit like a Honda. If you could do anything different, what would you do? I mean, would you invest? I mean, your dad, why didn't you? Do you invest in your dad's real estate? Yeah, my dad had been my business manager my whole time.

Oh, okay. So that's why y'all got 15 buildings. Yeah, my dad been running my business since from the beginning. Wow. So he, he know what, all my, and that. That's one thing that I could tell people, man, like, that was just so beautiful for me because that might be a more important decision besides who you do have a baby with. Who watched them finance. Oh, yeah, for sure.

So to have someone that really cared about me and my best interests and that to know he got money. Yes. And to know that I got his trust, his living trust in my email that say anything that he got come to me. Right. How am I lose? Because money changed people. You can have an agreement and the money start coming in more than what people thought. Now they're trying to conspire away, try to find a way to get more of it.

I don't know what, I mean, and it's like, you know, money's the root of all-ever. And it used to be, well, the lack of money or the pursuit of money is the root of all lever. But sometimes people have an absorbing amount of money and they still want more. That's why I don't believe in all this love and all this other shit. It's bullshit, though. It's all feeling-based, though. because if I really love you, I want to see you be at the best, at your full potential. Like, I've been in relationships with people, public relationships or whatever, to where I'm not in them with right now.

And like, if I pull back from that and even though I might have feelings, but if I genuinely love this person and someone else makes this person happy, you got to be happy about that. Yes. I never understood the dynamic to where you don't want to be with me and you want to take from me in the process. Yes. You want to, but you know what it is, though. What is it? They know that's the only way that can hurt you. you. Yeah. All you could do, the only thing you can do hurt me is play with my career, get online and say some old shit or play with the paper. They know that the feelings and all that other shit is real genuine feelings from me really there. So no matter how we fall out on a feeling base, I'ma still to rock with you unless you cross certain lines and boundaries that's uncrossable. But these ladies know they can't hurt you unless they're doing that type of shit. And I just don't like that. I don't respect that. Wow.

How do you, you got your chain lifted up off you? Yeah. That was a young type of vibe, too. You gave it up easy? Hell, no. I ain't never really even talk about this in like a real detail. And I feel comfortable speaking with you about it. So back in the day, right?

So I'm Youngberg, boom. I got all this shit going on. I got the number one record on radio. I got the biggest song or whatever. And I think one of the label reps hit me and said, like, yo, when you go to Detroit for Summer Jam or Headline in Summer Jam, they're like, will you go to this club?

They don't want to pay you, but, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's a good look. It's a relationship. I'm like, no, I don't know. I ain't going. I ain't getting paid. I ain't going. Whatever. So we go, I go do the Summer Jam. And I get to the city. I never forget I flew in on a private jet. I get there. I go to the hotel.

It's the night before Summer Jam. So, you know, it's that discernment and like making good. decision shit we're talking about. I'm young. I'm thirsty. Where the ho's at? I'm in Detroit. Where they at?

What's up? I'm in this hotel. I ain't really trying to be in. I ain't got no work out here. I ain't got no personal work. Right. I'm here for the summer jam. I'm the big dog.

Where they at? So a guy that I was dealing with at the time had made a suggestion that we go to a certain spot. Like, yo, let's go here. Such and such going to be here. This is what it is. Blah, blah. So I'm like, I bet.

Let's go. Now, I had this big, dumbass change. And like this big, Transformer chain, crazy shit. And, um, you go back to that. A ticket? A little less than that.

See, when you get into the carrots, then you go ticket. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, come on your baby. When you add me right now. I mean, Jesus could have hung on one of them crossing right there, though. I'm almost two, I got to be a big two million

if I'm just sitting here right now. But in reality, this is an era of the big, dumb, stupid chains or whatever, not the super quality. And so boom I'm on the tour bus I'm like

Should I wear this chain? I'm like I had on purple Or some shit like that I'm like now this match I'm gonna wear this shit So we go in the club I'm in there

Now I'm in the club And like I want the libations To start flowing or whatever Yeah yeah yeah These shout me out They on the mic I don't see no bottles show up Or whatever I'm just in their spot

So I go to the private room To where the owner or whatever was there Whoever runs the manager of the club And I'm like yo like we really want some bottles for the club. We want some bottles in our section. I'll pay half or a discount. Like, what can we do? Because I'm in the club. You know what I'm saying?

And the dude was like, man, my partner said, ain't no play for shit for y'all. I'm like, your partner? Uh-huh. So now it started to click to me. This is the same club that the label told me to go

to that I said I wasn't going to go to. Oh. So they already, so your agent probably told him that and they're feeling some type of way. Oh my God, where they? So now I'm in the club. And I'm like, we're trying to get the fuck out of it. I know we just walked

in, but it's time I get the, I feel the energy shift. Yep. And just on some real truthful out of shit, like man, like the club security, whoever was involved into it, how the shit went, the club security ended up just having their way with us. It wasn't like no

in the club. It wasn't no nothing. It was them. It was the club security. So at that point, when it was multiple big, with security on their shirt doing whatever they was doing with me or whatever I was gay in the chain and then from there

like that was kind of like that was a wild one that kind of like put a pause to kind of my rapping career I was kind of like I was like the first

they got robbed but like I'm like the first Indian over the hill like for real food I didn't get robbed every day you know what I'm saying

like whatever but at that point this is like the height of world star Twitter yeah the beginning of all this shit so like it kind of

put me in a bad spot and then shit from there I ain't gonna lie I got up out of the city at that time because they really like they really did a number on me or whatever but um I wish I to stay all up and bruised up and performed for my fans and I think the narrative would have went a little bit different but I was listening to too many label executives and management at the time the thing you need to get out of there don't talk to nobody don't do nothing blah blah blah And then, you know, the narrative just and everybody get to put their spin on it instead of me jumping out and saying,

yo, this will happen, this one ain't happened, this one happened, this one happened. That's why I can't fuck with Toray Lane's. I love Toray Lanes, but I can't fucking. Because if he ain't do nothing that shit, the first thing he should have been doing street credibility. Yo, this ain't happened. That ain't happened. That's why you can't condemn Meg and nothing this shit.

That's why I don't want to hear no bad talk about that. You know what I'm saying? Because you got to get in front of that shit, sometimes especially on these levels for real so what advice would what advice would you give young rappers what is what is it about what is it about what is it about that that's that's that street cred is like oh you came to my city i jack your ish what what that's that's about i think back in the day was i'm on all hell no just want to steal bro you right know people want what you got right like you're a target nobody wants to uh nobody wants to have clarity on just how

much of a target you are when you become this like bro i can't move the same no i'm i'm terrified everywhere i'm on defense everywhere i go you got to be anything happening what that situation you talking about is got to be almost what that was in 2008 is 20 it's 18 years ago so but at the same token some bullshit like that can happen 18 years ago you still be talking about it in a new interview i didn't change my name i ain't even saying no more right but it's still going to come up. So in reality, bro, you got to be you got to move tactical. You got to be on defense at all times, for real.

But I was young and dumb and didn't have a right guidance at that time. If I did, somebody would have told me, man, you know what, you stay here. I'm gonna go to a club. I'm gonna go get the girls. I'm gonna bring them back here. And then let's get some liquor in here. Let's get the vibes going in here. You vibe and do whatever you want do. How did Soldier Boy end up with the chain?

I have no clue. Did you get it back? I never wanted it. Once you get the chain, somebody arrived from the chain, They can't, you don't want it back. You got bad juju on it now. Hell no. And then look, I really don't even have no beef with Soldier Boy. That was so funny. But, you know, I guess he ended up getting it because he was on his cloud chasing shit.

He wanted to continue on with the shit. I was at. So he went and got it. And it never really even bothered me because it was kind of like, I don't even know Soldier Boy like that. Right. You know what I'm saying? And I didn't look at myself, me and Soldier Boy, at the same type of parallels as well. But then we see P&B Rock

End up losing his life for his chair And that won't hurt me So now you're like, hold on Somebody that I worked with He lost his life I was in a very similar situation And I could have easily lost my life What goes through your mind now?

He lost his life by not trying to give it up Get that shit up The only thing that can't be replaced his life You know that shit bro Chain car money I can get all that back Yo, that P&B shit broke my heart, bro, because I know how much of a good man he was. I know how much he cared about his daughter.

I looked at all the success that we were having at that moment. And to me, it's all about, like I said, being on defense. And then it's the hood mentality. Everybody know you don't go to that Roscoe, respectfully. You go to the one on Sunset and Gawa. Yeah. If you're going. If you're not going to do it.

Everybody knows not to go to that Boston over right there on sunset. you order the one or you go a little further down on sunset or whatever and everybody knows how to move out there. But I think that door dash it. Yeah, but look, but you know what it is, though. People feel like when they survive the trenches coming to L.A. ain't shit. But it's palm trees. But that's the mentality, though, from a guy from Philly.

You know what I'm saying? From Philly? Like, man, I'm like, come on. Like, this is easy work. But in reality, man, like, I'm so. I'm so hurt by that one because, man, I love that guy, man. For real, for real. This concludes the first half of my conversation.

Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to Part 1 on. Just simply go back to Club Shet Shay Profile and I'll see you there. I'm Bowen. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina-2026 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen, hi, Matt. Hey Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This your boy, Nal Marene from the Broken Play podcast.

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