Club Shay Shay - Club Shay Shay - Tyronn Lue Part 1

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

 Tyronn Lue — NBA champion as both player and coach, and current head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers — sits down with Shannon Sharpe at Club Shay Shay for a deep dive into his journey from a small-town kid in Mexico, Missouri, to leading some of the biggest stars in basketball history.Lue opens up about his roots, his path to the league, and what he remembers from the legendary 1998 NBA Draft class featuring Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, and more. He recalls the moment he thought he might be drafted by the Orlando Magic, what it was like getting the call from Denver, and eventually being traded to the Lakers, where he played alongside Shaquille O’Neal, Kobe Bryant, Rick Fox, and even Dennis Rodman. From Shaq pranks and $10,000 shopping sprees to learning what greatness meant from Kobe, Lue reflects on championship runs, locker room stories, and how much Allen Iverson influenced his love for the game.As a coach, Lue shares his candid perspective on today’s NBA. He breaks down what the Clippers need to finally reach the Finals, his expectations for Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Bradley Beal, and Chris Paul, and how important health will be for their success. He talks about building a tough defensive identity, what Kawhi has asked him about Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, and why he wants Lakers fans to come over to the Clippers’ side.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to San Diego FC, Behind the Flow. the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. LeBron James is on an expiring contract. I'm surprised about that. You know, he posted a video. He was working at the clipper facilities. Yeah, I know. I've seen that.

Yeah, I saw that. What'd that mean? I don't even know if I can speak on that. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll of dice.

That's why. my life. I've been grinding on my life. All my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Pustle paid the price. Want to slice. Got the rolling dice.

That's why all my life. I've been grinding on my life. Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shayshay. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proud of Club Shishay. Stopping by for conversation on the drink today, he's a two-time NBA champion as a player for the Los Angeles Lakers. He's a coach that offered the greatest comeback and

finals history with his team down 3-1 with two of the last three games on the road. And don't forget that Warriors team had the best regular season record in NBA history at 73 and 9. He helped the Cleveland Cavaliers win the first and only NBA title. He's the Olympic gold

medal winning coach, first team all in a big 12 point guard selection. His number 10 is retired by the University of Nebraska. He has a street named after himself in his hometown of Mexico, Missouri, the current head coach of the Los Angeles clippers that led them to the

first ever conference finals. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Tyrone Lou. D. Lou, what do you do, man? How you doing? I'm good, bro. When growing up in Mexico, Missouri, if somebody would have told 10-year-old Ty Lou, you're going to be an NBA player

and you're going to play on with two of the greatest players in NBA history. You'll later become a head coach and you'll all be author the greatest comeback in NBA finals history. if somebody would have told 10-year-old Tyrone Lou that, what would you have told him?

Hell no. Hell no. But, I mean, you know, you always dream. Yes. Dream big. You know, you put the work in, but to, like, come this far from, you know, where I come from,

it's just, it's crazy. It's crazy to believe. And, like I said, being blessed, like I've talked about it all the time, just, you know, come from Mexico, Missouri, a small town where we call it one way in, no way out.

Right. You know, so to make it out and be able to help the people, by being able to help, it's just a blessing. You know, my brother tells the story all the time is like coming from rural South Georgia where there's really no one that you're like, if you're in L.A., you might see someone

that you might aspire to be like, or you come from a big Chicago or New York, you might bump into a JZ or you see a Kanye, but when you're from a small rural town and there's really no one from that hometown that's ever gotten out and become what we call be on television or be on the radio, how hard was it for you to find motivation

to want to leave, Mexico, Missouri. It was hard, but I idolized my uncle Jay Graves. Okay. You know, he played basketball. He wore number 10, so I wanted to wear number 10. And he just taught me a lot about the game. But like you said, it was no one to look up to and idolized because TV wasn't, you know, games on TV wasn't big back then. Right. You know, so you just kind of had to pick the people who you wanted to be like. Yeah. Outside my uncle, the other guys I want to be like, it would have been going in the right direction. Yeah, you never left Mexico. Because you see them with all the cars, with all the money,

and, you know, that's kind of like what you inspired to be. You know, just having money, just being to do what you wanted to do. And so I was, you know, like I said, blessed and thankful that I was able to get out. Fast forward. Here we are now. You're the head close to the Clippers. Big acquisitions this offseason. You make the trade for Bradley Bill.

Chris Paul comes back after, what, four or five year away from the Clippers. Kauai seems to be finally healthy because he started to play really, really well down the stretch last year. James Harden, you re-signed him. the bill, the Chris Paul, are those missing ingredients? What do you guys need to do? Because OKC ain't going nowhere. Houston traded for that seven foot monster. We know he's the elite score.

And when you pair him with what they already got, Schengoon, and they got Van Fleet, and they got Thompson, what do you guys need to do, Tilu, to make sure you guys are playing in the conference finals with a chance to go to the NBA finals? I think the biggest thing for us is just health. I think, you know, when you start the season and your best players, you know, aren't available when it hurt. Right.

You know, you got to play a different style of basketball until they're able to come back. And that kind of hurt us last year. Like, we had to play a style just to win games to try to stay afloat. We really didn't have a flow or system how we wanted to play because our best player was out. He played, I think, 37 games last year. And, like, I think eight or nine of them, like, was that 20-minute restriction, you know? So, you know, we lean a lot on James. James was great.

You know, Zoo was great. Yes. Nick Batoon, I mean, Norman Powell was great. And then Derek Jones Jr. had a career year. Chris Dunn had a career year. So guys stepped up and we took on a mentality. We took on like a, like we're going to be a defensive-minded, tough team. And that's who we became.

So James led the way, I think, with his leadership. I think Norm, you know, being to score the way he did, Zubak, you know, getting better. Went to another level. Yeah, went to another level. I thought it was good for us. And we had identity. Right. Defense.

And then when Kowai came back. You know, you try to integrate him into something that's been working. You know, now you get your best player back. It's kind of tough, you know, to do that. Because they've been playing one way, and now you bring this guy in it? Yeah. So this year, like I said, just starting camp, Kauai's healthy. And we know when he has a camp and he's healthy, he's a monster.

Right. You know, James is back. You know, we've got Brooke Lopez, you know, who's huge for us. I think another big body we can throw a Joker. You know, we're playing against Denver. Like, you know, when Zoo's out of the game, we've always been small. And so he's punished us inside. you know, being able to score, and we have a double team,

now he's picking apart with passing. So just for us being healthy, I think, for the majority of the season, I think we've got a chance to do some special things. Does Bradley Bill coming in, does he replace what you lost with Norman Powell because you had to move Norman Powell. He moves on, and Powell, he's an explosive score.

Now, we know where Bradley Bill was in Washington. He went to the All-Star game. He averaged 30 for a couple of years, so we know he can score, but that's not necessarily what you need from him. Yeah, I think, you know, Norm, like I said, led a team in scoring last year and had a career year.

He was phenomenal. And you lose a guy like Norm, it's always tough to make up for that. But Bradley Bill, like you said, who's been a perennial all-star who's averaged 30 a couple times in his career, he's definitely going to be a big help

for us offensively. So we're going to need him to score, but outside of scoring, we're going to need to make plays for other guys too. Because he's going to draw two or three guys and he can make a pass, he can make a play.

And then defensively, he's always been good, but you've got to challenge him every night. If he's on bad players, like he's not as good, but when he's guarding a guy that can play, he's a really good defender. And so we need this total all-around package. And when you play for a team like Phoenix, like he did the last couple of years, you got Booker and KD and you're the third option.

Like, people are like, oh, he had 18 points shot 50% from the field and 43% from three. You know, so I mean, those are unbelievable stats. But when you're playing with Kady and Book, it kind of gets overshadowed. And so I think, you know, by coming here, I think it's a fresh start. I think he's going to be great for us. How difficult is it, Tilu, to get a guy when he's been the guy where he was, to get him to come in and say, that's not what we need here. Because he's not, it's going to be Kauai, it's going to be James Harden.

And I think he's, like you said, he's had good numbers, but I think he's struggle. Because when you go from 30 to 18, that's a big thing. And people look at you different. They talk about you different. Right. But the talk really doesn't matter because you don't know how the team is structured and how they want to play. You know, he might take a backseat to KD and book, like, listen, I'm going to guard the best player. You know, if y'all need me, I'm going to be here.

But I don't think, you know, on with our team, he'll get lost in the sauce because James is such a great passer. Yes. He makes it easier for everybody to play the game. And we're going to need him to score. We don't need him to come in and try to be somebody else. We need him to be who he is. You know, and so keeping him involved and engaged offensively is going to be huge for us because he can do a lot of stuff. He can cut, catch and shoot, you can come off screens.

He can handle the balls, you know, secondary. you know, ball handler, so he can do a lot of things offensively, and so we want him to come in and be who he is, not trying to fit in. Chris Paul, you bring him back. What are your expectations? Because I thought, what is he, P, going into his 20th season, 20th season,

and he's still a quality assist guy. Now, he's not the score that he once was, but you might not need him to give you that kind of, that offense, but you need somebody that can move the ball. He is a pure point guard. He's looking to pass the ball first. What is your expectation from CP? Yeah, kind of the same thing with Bradley Bill.

You know, just being who you are. And, you know, when you get older an age and you played so long in the league, your main goal is to win. And so I think they're at the point in their careers where we just want to win, whatever it takes. But, you know, CP, you know, being 40 years old and playing 82 games last year. Yes. You know what I mean?

Like, so. Nobody plays 82 anymore. Right. Unless you McCill Bridges. Right, right. And so he's done a great job as far as just training his diet, you know, how he eats, how he trains. And he's going to be huge for us. I think for our young guys as far as, you know, teaching him how to work.

teach him how to be professional. And then, like you said, being a hell of a pastor and creator, and he takes care of the basketball, it doesn't turn the ball over. So that's huge for us. But you do realize when you bring these players in, combine with the players that you already have, expectations goes up exponentially.

You know what's expected of you guys and you guys just happen to be the oldest team in the NBA. See, how'd that happen? If you don't have expectations, you don't have a chance to win. Okay. And so you should never shy away from that. You know, as a coach, you should be running to that. Right.

You know, having a chance to compete for a championship. that's all you can ask for. Just having a chance to compete because there's, you know, about 20 teams that come in every season and they don't have a chance to really win. Great. You know, and so for me,

I think we really have a real shot. Like I said, with the guys we acquired this summer, with the guys we had here last year, with a healthy Kauai, I think we really do have a chance to be an elite team, you know, and so it's going to take a lot of work, but we can get there.

How important was for you guys to get into your own building? Because as long as you stayed at Staples or the Crip or whatever they call it, it's really hard to have an identity because the Lakers have been there so long they won so much in that building especially not so much in the last

10 years, last 15 years excuse me, but you know with Shatt and Kobe everybody remembers that and now you got the Lakers and now you got LeBron in that building, you got a Luca how important was it for you guys T. Lou to get your own building? Well it was important and I know like

you know everyone makes the robbery to Clippers Lakers or whatever but to me it's more about the city of L.A. you know and so when I first came as a rookie like it's all I knew and they embraced me and just being here for the people in the city of L.A. is, it means the most to me. Right. You know, so

if you're a Lakers fan, if we're not playing the Clippers not playing a Lakers, you should be a Clippers fan. Right. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's us against the world, you know, and so that's kind of hard. They view it, though. I know, I know I said, but I wish they would, you know. And so for me, it was great for us to kind of, like you said, Mr.

Obama, when he bought the team, he said, I'm going to build us an arena. And so, you You know, it took some time, and he did that. Right. You know, so to have our own home and a place where you can leave your shoes in a locker room. I have to move it out every time, you know, we left to go on the road or a concert came in. Right. You know, it's huge for us.

Right. You know, have a place called home, and it's beautiful. I mean, they've done a great job of just everything they've done with that, you know, nothing was left out. Nothing was spared. He spared no expense. Nothing. Reports are, and you can correct this, that Kauai trained until the end of the playoffs. Is that true?

He trained. Like, he put his body, he was doing, like, the playoffs was going on, even though he wasn't playing. And so when the Thunder and the, who they play, the Pacers, when they ended, Kauai, he started to take a break and now he started back up. Why do you think it was important for him to do that? I think just trained his mind to be able to play and get to the finals. Yeah, like our season was over, like, we got beat by Denver in Game 7. But to keep training and keep playing and just pushing your body to that point of, you know,

an extra two months of the season, like that's tough. Right. And to train your mind and train your body, that's what he's getting ready for. So I love that. It's hard, I mean, because you know, you're as a player, you play, you play, you play. And you see how great Kauai is when he plays. And for some reason, his body has betrayed him sometimes, not all the time, because when he's healthy, it's hard to say he might not be, he's borderline top five, but he ain't getting out of the top team.

Right. When he's healthy. Now, you can say whatever, because he's healthy. He can still defend. Now, he's not the defender, the two-time defensive player of the year defender because he's kind of focused a little bit more offensively. Back then, he was just a defensive player that gave you some offense. Now he's an offensive player that can still play outstanding defense.

But when you watch him and you see, because a lot of people say, man, Kauai, that's that low management, ain't nothing wrong with him. When you see how hard he works, because everybody talks about how hard he actually works. And you see how his body sometimes betrays him. What goes through your mind? I feel sorry for him. You know, because all the work he puts in, we see it every day. And just what it takes to get on the floor on a consistent basis,

it takes a lot for him to get out there. And so it's not like he's wanting to sit out and miss games. Like he puts the work in every single day. And the grind that he has to do to even get on the floor to play is just tough. You know, and so when he tries to push, you know, through that threshold himself, he gets himself in trouble. So a lot of times it's coming from us. It's coming from Lawrence Frank, you know, the medical staff.

Like, we've got to protect him from himself because, you know, he wants to play back-to-backs, but we've seen the train. If he does, then... The Nigo's well up. Yeah. You know, and so even though he wants to do it, like, sometimes we've got to protect him from himself, and it's just tough, because he's not a guy that wants to sit out not wanting to play. Like, his whole

mindset is to win championships, and that's what he wants to do. And, like, sometimes, like you said, it's just, it's unfortunate. You know, it's, you know, some bad luck that you know, things happen, but it's not like, you know, he doesn't want to work, he doesn't want to play. Like, that's definitely not true. You played alongside Kobe?

You played alongside Jordan. Has Kauai ever because a lot of people say his game is very, very similar because he had the mid-range game. Both of those guys had tremendous mid-range games. Has he ever asked you any questions about Jordan and Kobe? All the time. Yeah, all the time, especially when I first got here. And so going down to San Diego, you know, a couple summers and just working with him and just showing them that, you know, the moves and the routines that me and Jordan did every single morning. Like we went to break, we called the breakfast club, get up, we lift weights, go to breakfast.

good to the gym about an hour and a half early. And I went through the same post moves that Joy went through every single day for two years. And so I knew his routine. And so I brought that to Kauai and just kind of showed him footwork, you know, how they did it, what they were looking for, you know, how to take advantage of different, you know. And so he really picked up on it. And it was crazy.

We were talking about it like four days ago. When you come back to San Diego? I was like, man, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? When you come back to L.A. But you hadn't even come to Vegas to get that in. Yeah. But, you know, he got it down and just showing him all the different things I learned from Jordan and Kobe

and just the footwork and stuff and he picked it up and he really embraces it. Right. Is he as quiet as he seems? No. No, I mean, he's like me. I don't really like, you know,

being around the media and talking out, you know, up front. But were you? Around his guys, around, he's a funny dude, man. That's what people say. Super funny. Like, and I love him.

People say he joking, he having a good time. But when, like, when he, the cameras are around. Yeah. He's like so robotic. Yeah. And that's kind of what makes him him. You know, a lot of times, you know, stars, they want to get out in front of the camera.

They want to be seen. And he's the total opposite. Right. You know, and so he rather let his game do to talking and speaking. And so you can respect that. Right. And I love that about him. But he's a funny dude.

You re-signed James Harden to two-year deal. When you guys make the move and you get hard, what was your expectation? Because you had saw him from afar. You see him score 36 a night. You've seen him win the MVP. You see a guy goes from the sixth man of the year. to one of the two or three best players in the NBA. So when you get a guy like that,

what's going through your head? Like, damn, I mean, I don't want to mess. I don't want to talk. I don't want to mess up too much of what he's doing, but I also needing to play within the scheme. So what's your thought process when you get a guy like a James Harden? Yeah, it's tough. You just got to kind of figure out.

The first thing you do is go to a player like that and say, you be who you are. And we're going to try to make sure we incorporate into the team dynamics. Okay. Be who you are. And if you're doing too much, we'll let you know. But when he first came, Damn, Tilo, you said you do it too much, you let him know?

Yeah. But, I mean, when he first came, he wasn't doing enough. Like, he was taking like seven shots a game. No, hell of God. And so, PG, Kauai, and then we had Russ, you know, coming in. And so James is more the facilitator, you know, making the plays. But when he started to, like, you know, score more and be more aggressive, I think we went 35 and 6 or something, 33 and 6. And we had a hell of a stretch, you know, once we got them.

but we had worked on something all-training camp about a cutting and slashing and moving, and we brought him in, we just totally killed it. Because James, like God, space, so you can make the right play and make sure guys are in their right spots. And so it made it tough for us, but we adjusted to it.

And like you said, when guys are great, you just got to let them be great. Right. How do you make sure that game seven doesn't happen again? Because we hear James Hardin is great to the regular season and then come playoff time. We don't seem to get that same level of James Hardin. Is it mental?

Is it something that you can do? Is it something the players around him can do? What can you guys do to make sure he's at his absolute best when you need him to be? Yeah, I mean, I don't see what the difference is between game six and game seven. You know, the game six was an elimination game. Right. He had 30, what, 36. You know, so, like, I don't think it's a mental thing.

I think teams are prepping for a hell of a guy. Right. You know, and so when you have two or three guys loaded up, not going to let you play to your strengths, not going to let you ISO and get to where you want to get to, it just makes it tough. You know, and so... That's what other guys got to help out. That's when I got to help out.

That's where other guys got to step up. And I just take most of the blame. Like, if he's not performing, if my players are not performing, it's on you. It's on me. You know,

and so for me, if that's going to be a problem, then we just got to win in six games. Don't go to seven. Yeah, I think that that dunk, that put back dunk by Gord, really, it took a lot of you. Because y'all had,

y'all had that would have been all of a sudden, you're like, what is you're going to go to? I think you're about to go, No, y'all would have won the game. Yeah. No, it was tied.

It was tied up. Yeah, with overtime. But, yeah. Something that I can't recall, and you were around Kobe, a lot more than me. And Joy, and I can't recall if he did it either. But when they had a bad game, they never ducked out on the medias. No. It bothers me.

When things go well, a guy drop a 40-point triple-double, the guy got 50, 60, they'll talk. They have a bad game, and then they run from their responsibility of talking. talking to the media. What's your take on that, T. Lou? I don't like it, you know, but I think guys are built certain ways in different ways. And I don't think it's more of a disrespect thing. I think it was more like you let yourself down because they train so hard and you work so hard to get to these moments. And if you don't play well, like, you're pissed up at yourself. Correct. It's not the media or anybody else. And so, you know, it's better ways you can handle it. I think guys should. But you never know how guys are feeling. Some guys can't

handle it. You might get them on stage and they might go crazy. You'd be glad you're like, yeah, you should have ducked down on that one. You know, so, I mean, I wish it was the better way they could handle it, but, you know, if you don't play well, if you don't do what you're supposed to do, step up and meet the responsibility of doing the media.

That 98 draft class, Dirk, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Mike Bibby, Al Harrington, Larry Hughes, Richard Lewis, Antoine James, Jason Williams, Bonzi-Well, Ricky Davis, Rayper Austin, Cotino Mobley, Earl Boykin. What do you remember about that draft class? Y'all had a nice little squad.

You got dirt's in the hall, Pierce is going to the hall, Vince Carter's in the hall. Yeah, it was crazy because, you know, my junior year, you know, at Nebraska, I had a, you know, I had a really good year. And so I was like, man, can I come out? Because I didn't know if Steve Francis is going to come, and then Baron Davis. Right. And Baron Davis got hurt, and he tore his ACL at UCLA. And so when he got pushed back, he was going to come out that year.

So if BD would have came out, I'd have came back to school for my senior year. Right. You know, so once he got hurt, that's my buddy, he's my guy. So once he got hurt, I'm like, I got to make a move, you know. And so I came out, you know, end up being the 23rd pick. But just going through that draft, it was crazy because I had a chance and opportunity to go 15. Like Orlando said, they were going to take me 15 because they had three picks. Right.

They had, so they took Mike Doliac at 12, Kianne Clark at 13, and then for 15, they're supposed to take me, but they took Matt Harpering. From Georgia Tech. Yeah, from Georgia Tech. And then I think 16 was, I think, Michael Dickson went 14, and then Bryce Drew went 16. And I was supposed to win 16th, and I didn't do that, you know, so then when you don't know, you kind of like, oh, sorry, you know, what's going on? Now, all of a sudden, you thought 15, you don't go 60, 17, 18. So you start sliding, you're like, damn, did I make the right? decision. Right. And so, you know, they wanted to have a

draft party back in Mexico for me, and I was like, man, I ain't going to be embarrassed. Like, I ain't having a draft party, don't get drafted. So I was in New York, you know, with my agent Andy Miller at his house. And so, you know, when I heard my name get called by the Denver Nuggets, 23rd pick, like I went crazy. Right. It was like a dream come true. And, you know, for a guy, like you said, from Mexico, that doesn't happen. Right. You know, and so

it was like, you know, a blessing the dream come true. And then you got, then you get traded. You're like, You get drafted until the nudge the 23rd pick, Tyron Loo. Yeah, yay! That pick was traded to the... Now, backflips. Yeah. Go from happy to backflips.

Man, the Lakers, Kobe and... Come on, man. And Shaq. Come on. Cobb and Shaq and, like, being in L.A. And then so, like, what blew my high was, I was, like, when they said, traded to the Lakers, because I know Jerry Wesson came and watched me play.

Right. In Hawaii, we played against Virginia. And I had a hell of a game. He was sitting courtside, like, thumbs up, like winking that, and I'm saying, like, you know what I'm saying? Let me keep this. Let me keep this up.

And so they say I get traded to the Lakers. Man, I jump off the couch. I go crazy. My agent scared me. Well, this is totally different. You're not going to Denver. You're going to the Lakers. So this is very important.

You got to, so he scared me. So now I'm going from being high to like scared. He killed you high. And we talked about to this day, like, damn. Like I was like excited. And now he scared me because now, like, I'm like, shit, like what I got to do now? Right.

You know, so. But like, that was, that was huge. You go into a situation, T. Lou, where you're like, you're all big 12 and you're handling the ball, you're scoring, and you know that's not going to be you, what you're going to be doing in L.A. So how do you transition? Because you transition. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with last

than ideal access. Should you, that's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast. College football season is here.

And you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before how. Uh-huh. But fear not. The solid verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss and impossible comeback. Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and, of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. We don't just love college football tie. We live it. Listen to the solid verbal

college football podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show. And we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiance Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen.

What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate, you can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests

like the legendary Candice Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Simone Boyce, host of the Brightside podcast, and on this week's episode, I'm talking to Olympian, World Cup Champion, and podcast host, Ashlyn Harris. my worth is not wrapped up in how many things I've won because what I came to realize is I valued winning so much that once it was over I got the blues and I was like, this is it.

For me, it's the pursuit of greatness. It's the journey, it's the people, it's the failures, it's the heartache. Listen to the bright side on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Like, you like forgot, I mean, you could score, but you like, nah, that ain't my thing. Let me lock in on this defensive end. That's how I'm going to have to be here.

Well, what's crazy is that, you know, like coming out of college, I average 23 that year, you know. So all knew was scoring a basketball and, you know, playing with pace, playing with speed. And so when I got to the Lakers, you know, I came in. It was lockout season, you know, so the first 35 games, I ain't even, I ain't even suit up. I didn't even suit up. Damn. Yeah, I wore a suit for the first 35 games. And so, you know, when we played 50 games that season,

Right. You know, Dale Harris got fired, and Kurt Rambert took over. Right. And he was my workout guy, you know, that whole time while Dale Harris was there. And so the last 15 games, he gave me an opportunity to play. And I play, you know, I play well, you know. But just looking at it, like, every day I'm, like, scoring and practice, I'm doing my thing. Never got me on the floor.

But just sitting back and just observing and seeing what guys were doing and what I could bring, I said, okay, like, D. Fish is a, he's a good play. A solid player, makes open shots, does the right thing, doesn't turn the ball over. But we don't have an energy guy. Like, a guy could pick up full court, pressure to basketball. And so just looking at that and just learning from that instead of, you know, being pissed off and being mad. Like, just learning, getting better. I've seen what they needed.

And when I got my opportunity, man, I just picked up. I ain't never been a defensive player. I mean, I can play defense, but, like, I've always been to score. Right. You know, and so to be able to do that and see what we need it and then make that my niche to get on the floor, like, that's what I had to do, so I was willing to do it. You should be, like, a lot of these players look up to Michael Jordan and all these other guys. Peyton Pritchett and T.J. McConnell should look up to you.

That was your gig before way, way, way back when. Yeah. You get to L.A. Shack, and people always talk about Shack's generosity. It was reported that Shack gave you a sum of money to go get laid out. It's funny because, you know, when I first met him, we went to the Century Club. And so when I first met, he didn't know who I was. Like, they had drafted me.

He didn't really know who I was. And then Uncle Jerome, like, man, that's the guy we just dropped it from. Right. He said, oh, okay. Like, whatever, whatever. He said, all right, well, just come to the house tomorrow. I'm having my chef cook and just come by. And so I said, all right.

So I brought a couple of my guys. We go to Shack's house. Man, a hell of a spread. We eat good. And so we're just sitting around talking. And he's like, all right, here, you know, before you leave, hold up. So he goes to the back. He goes to the back.

He comes out with $10,000. I was like, here, go shop and get yourself. I was like, what? He's like, yeah. I said, man, I can't pay this back. Like, it's lockout. I'm going to have my money. No, no, no, no, just keep it.

Don't worry about it. Just keep it. That's the kind of guy he was. Right. Bought Mark Matts in the truck, like because he, you know, he wasn't getting around. But like that's who he was, man. Like, Shaq would give you anything. He took care of a lot of people.

And like, he don't get a lot of credit for that. But he's always been like that. He's like a big kid. Yeah. You see him. I mean, the thing, like, he goes in the store, he's like, and the parents would tell the kid to put it back because they can't pay for it.

He said, no, I got it. Right. And he's, he is, he's an oversight. He's a 50-yard, I think Shaq's probably 50, 51, 52. But he's a big kid. Yeah. He's a big kid that wants the best for everything, everybody. Everybody, yeah.

But he's a prankster, though. Oh, I'm a super prankster. A super prankster. So, um, one time, you know, Devin, George, you know, we're on a team and, and, you know, Shaq had told him to do something. He didn't do it. And so usually he had, like, put a towel, wrap a towel around his hand, he'll punch you and beat you up until, you know, until you surrender.

But this day, like, Devin, we had a game. And Devin didn't want, he didn't do something that morning, bring donuts or the newspaper or something. And Shaq went in the bathroom and he shitted, and he shitted in Devin's shoes. And so when he come out of the locker room, he kind of like, you know, doctor where it comes to, like, the top of your shoe. And so, Devin not knowing we're getting ready for the game, Devin not knowing he comes in and puts his shoe in,

and he puts his, you know, foot in a pile of shoes. Like, he would do stuff like that all the time. Like, just crazy. Yeah, crazy stuff, man. So what did Devin do? What could he do? What do you going to do? Oh, man, come on, Shaq, man.

That was a dead. He was mad, but, like, what could he do? You know, and he could do it about that. Like, just take it as a loss. For one, you might get beat up, and then two, you might get cut. So you're going to lose, lose. But you was also, you played with Dennis Robin. Yeah, yeah.

Because obviously, he's one of the great small rebounds. He might be the greatest small rebound in NBA history. You're talking about the guy to six, seven that led the league and rebounding for like seven straight years. I mean, he was getting like 17, 18 rebounds a game, which is unheard of. So what was he like? Was he like, you know, Shaq, I saw Shaq said he didn't take, he didn't like to take showers. He would leave and go straight to the club. So what was he like practice behind the scenes?

He was a hard worker. You know, he was quiet. He didn't really do a lot of talking. But when he stepped on the floor, like, he gave everything he had every single day. Wow. You know, and so the funny thing is like when we wore our practice uniforms and stuff, he always wore like pajama pants and like a white t-shirt. That's how he practiced.

You know? But, I mean, just, you know, talk to him on the end of the bench because I wasn't playing at the time. Right. So, like I said, the first 35 games, like, I'm on the sideline. He comes sitting on the end of the bench and, like, just talking to me about, you know, what Jordan did. Right. And, like, how Kobe, you know, reminds him a lot of Jordan. Right.

Under similarities. And we just talk, you know, a lot at the end of the bench, you know, but he wasn't a big talker, you know, hard worker. I don't like the way it ended. They kind of, like, you know, made like it was his fault or whatever, but it wasn't. Was he taking the shoes off at that time? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he always had his shoes off. Yeah, he always had his shoes off.

And now that I'm old, I see why. He's comfortable, you know, but I see why. But, I mean, he wasn't a problem at all. Like, when he was supposed to do his job, he did his job. And you saw him by the fans loving, too, when he was. Oh, yeah. They love, everywhere he's been, the fans love him. Yeah.

You were the Lakers from 98 to 2001, you won two championships. What was that time like? Because L.A. loves winners. And if you win in L.A., you're golden forever. Yeah, I mean, it was like being, you know, with the Beatles. You know what I mean? You had Kobe, Shaq, you know, we had Rick Fox, who was a movie star, you know, Ron Harper, we're already won with, you know, won with George, B. Shaw, D. Fish, you know, then the first one was Glenn Rice. We had Robert Ory and Horace Grant. It was just like, like, travel with the Beatles, you know, and like, every city we went to, you know, Shack had a party, a birthday party. So I'm like, damn, like, when is your birthday? Like, every time we went to a new city, like, tonight, Shaquille, Neil, birthday badge, you know.

And so, you know, when we get there, like, the whole team, that's what was different about now. And then back then, our whole team went out. Like, 15 guys, like, every single night. So when we got to a city, we go out, have fun, we kick it. But you knew, like, every time we stepped into the arena, like, we was going to win. Right. And so, like, to have that feeling knowing that when we go into an arena, we're going to win,

like, it was no better feeling. And then, like, say, at the time, having two best players in the world, like, I mean, what could you do about that? Would you say, because you were there, you were in it? Would you say guys were closer then, or are teams guys closer now? Closer then. I mean, because you didn't have a social media. Guys weren't playing all the video games. You know, it wasn't a lot to do.

So, guys, we always stay connected, you play cards. You know, you went out together. You went to dinner together. But now with just so much social media and so many, you know, movie outlets and all different things you can do now, it's just totally different. Right. You know, but back then, like, we all were together, every single day.

And, like, every team I was on back then, it was the same way. You're coming out, unfortunately, for you, was in the NBA finals because that's when people, everybody knew like Tyron Liu was. And you took the assignment of guarding Alan Iris,

who was the MVP that season. And, look, he went, that first game won, he went crazy. Yeah. And, but you were undeterred. Like, when you, when, like, you give it to everything you got this, like, come on, come on,

come on, come on, T. You got to get, Like, bro, I'm giving this dude Everything I got Ain't nothing working No, he's a beast And like, I mean, to be Relentless the way he was

And how he attacked every single time Like, and it's crazy Like he's like probably two or three years older to me But I idolized him Right Just, you know, just how he carried himself Being six foot, you know, with the braids And, you know, bringing

that hip hop culture to You know, to the NBA Yeah, the heavy influence on the NBA And so it was crazy The two weeks leading up to the finals I played AI in practice every single day. So I was able to run fast and forget the triangle.

Like I was able to run fast, shoot all the balls. And so I knew everything, just studying the film, watching him and all of his counters, everything he did. And so in that first half, you know, I didn't play. You know, I was on the side. I didn't play the first half of the game. Right. And so with six minutes ago in the third quarter, I'm sitting on the floor of me and Devin George. And then, you know, Phil looks down to the end of the bench.

It's like, Louby. I was like, I jumped up. At this point, AI had 36 points already. Oh, babe, what you want me to do? Yeah, with six minutes ago in the third quarter, you know what's the end of a 48. But, like, just having that chance to play, like, say, play against someone you idolized and respect it so much. And, you know, so I know a lot of people make, like, a big deal over to step over and all that. But, like, to me, it's just competing.

Like, if you play hard, you compete, there's going to be some things that happen that you don't want to happen. You're going to get dunked on. You're going to get cost over. You know, whatever it made me. But, like, they act like he crossed me over. I feel down. Like, he stepped over me. Like, he made a good move.

I contested the shot and walked back and he stepped over me and I think the biggest thing was Doug Collins because he oh he steps over Lou

he goes crazy so that made a big deal out of it which you know it don't bother me like people see me all the time like

you know that's Tyler that the guy that AI stepped over so that's how I'm known not a few time champion

or you know like nothing like yeah the guy that AI stepped over so it's whatever was AI

the toughest matchup you had because you've had I mean you've had to guard a lot I mean no he was the

toughest matchup by ever had a guard, hands down. But when you look at, because I'm old and day, and I remember him, I mean, he's six foot tall, but he thinned. Did he weigh 160? 160? That's what he weighed. No, that's what he weighed.

160, but, man, just speed, athletic ability, the way he attacked you. Right. Like, his handle, like, he just, he could do everything. He can shoot it, mid-range, to the rack, finish over big, dunk on a big, like, get you in foul trouble. And then

transition, he was like a miniature LeBron, like he was unstoppable in transition. You know, and so he definitely was the hardest guy I had to guard, you know, in my career. Kobe. You were close to Kobe. And you guys played a lot of, a lot of ones. You get it? Never. Because this guy right here.

So, a funny story. So my second year, I think eighth game in the season, I got hurt. So I had to get micro fracture surgery. Okay. And Kobe broke his hand. And so when we got better, like, you know, just rehabbing or whatever. So, like, for three months, me and Kobe worked out every single day.

The team was on the road. It's just me and Kobe. And so me and my cousin, Doodle, we would go to the gym, and we would play one-on-one full court. And I could never beat him. Like, I could, you know, because I was a great one-on-one player. Right. And so, we'd be in the car, we'd get back and say, man, why you can't beat him?

Like, I said, man, I don't know. Like, I just can't beat him. And then, like, two years later, he became Kobe. And he was like, I see him while here. You know what I see him. Like, nah, I see why I could never beat him, you know. But, like, people don't get the chance to see, like, I mean, Kobe had that, man, handle, like, the ball on the string. Yeah.

All that and one stuff. Yeah. He had all that. Right. Never lost the handle. Like, when you talk about guys, like, skill-wise, he was one of the baddest guys, like, ever. And so, somebody had to clean up. I want to clean up today.

Yes, sir. And I taught a John Sally already. So he told a story on a podcast about Kobe was on the plane. Right. And, like, he was bobbing his head, like, he was listening to music. Right. And so we was at the car table playing cars. and John Sye said,

you're not listening to music already. He's like, you listen to everything everybody's saying. He was like, yeah, I'm listening to everybody. He's like, why are you doing that? And he was like, to see somebody talking about, he said, nobody's talking to him. He said, I just want to make sure I know what's going on

or whatever. But John Side told a story that that I was talking shit about Kobe. I'm like, Kobe was my man. I said, no, I didn't say that. It got cut in the snip. I said, no, you got to clean that up because that's my guy.

And I would never talk shit about Coke. You know, so he said he got a podcast with the same people two weeks from now. He's going to clean it up. because that's not the way it happened. But go ahead. I'm sorry. Did you know?

Because sometimes people like, man, did you know he would be that? I did. From working out with him, because like you said, you working out behind the scenes. And because, I mean, everybody, I remember 17-year-old and Dale Harris getting an opportunity in Utah and he airballing the last shot. That's what people are like, well, damn. I was like, everybody keeps saying he's going to be good. He's going to be good. I'm like, well, damn.

But I did, in fact, then, I was like, dude's supposed to be a senior in high school, really, though. He ain't supposed to be in the NBA. You could tell that he was going to be that. He was going to be Kobe. Yeah, but not to factor in the air balls. To factor in, he took those shots. What? The mentality, you know what I'm saying?

The mentality to take those shots. Yes. You know what I mean? Because a lot of times people shy away from them. Oh, they don't want it. Yeah, they don't want it. You know, and I've seen that. And so at 17, 18 years old,

to have the mentality to take those shots and shoot the airballs. Like, the thing about Kobe, which is different, you know, is I've never heard to talk about money. Like, how much money he is. made or how much money it was always about he wanted to be the greatest like I want to be the best and to see the work he put in every single day you can tell that's what he wanted to do right and just from like being there at five o'clock in the morning being the first guy there working on his body what 17 year old guy you know is working on their body you know getting the you know the soft

tissue stuff eating right mature way beyond the years yeah like nobody's doing that right you know and so um to see all the stuff that he did at that age um it was just phenomenal you knew he's going to be I knew he was going to be great, like, had no doubts about that. Just the work he put in and how hard he worked, it was just, it was going to happen. But I think I forget the outlet. They had Kobe ranked the 11th best player in the history of the game. You played with Kobe, you played in this league, you coached in this league for a number of years. The 11th best player?

I would never say that, but it's my error. I don't know, you know, like back in the day, I can't speak on how great guys was back then because they said like the TV outlets, the games weren't on TV. You heard about it. The games were tape delayed until. Yeah, so you never saw it. But in my area, if I had to pick and choose and say, was he better than the guys

back in the day? Oh, not, no question at all. Like, no question. I mean, to win five championships, like I said, to win two, you know what I said, without Shaq, we thought would never happen. And to do all the things he did, like, come on man, like, no, definitely not 11. That's crazy.

Had Shaq and Kobe stayed together? Let's just say they would have had a harmonious relationship. I'm trying to think. It's hard to say because Stockton and Malone wasn't on that level. Stockton was the best player. There was no question about it, no if-s and a butt. It's hard to say Pippin and Jordan. Jordan was the best player.

There's no if-sand-and-butt. But when you got two guys and you got two thoroughbred and they're running and they're looking out of eye, I'm the best, no, I'm the best, I'm the best. In the world. Not our team. The world. The world, yeah. Had they been able to coincide,

let's just say for another three years, how many championships do you think they win? They could have won eight. They could have won eight. And if, you know, I know I wasn't there for the Detroit series or whatever, and I'm glad my best friend, Chauncey got a championship. Like, they were some bigger back and forth then. Right.

They could have, you know, they could have easy won that. But if they didn't stay together, they had won seven, eight championships. Like, could nobody beat that duel? Like, somebody wanted to slip up in one. Like, you know, Detroit won, you know, and they had a hell of a team. And the job they did was phenomenal.

But, okay, if you leave outside of that year and come back to the next three, nobody's beating them. The rivalries, the marching band, the upset, Saturdays just got way more fun. College football is back. Thank you, you know the game. Put your college football knowledge to the test with Draft King's Sportsbook and turn your picks into big payouts from live betting during the games to rivalry week odds boosts, and so much more.

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after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources see dkngg dot co slash audio if it has been a situation

I get I think the best situation we can use in this situation Tulu is Kope is Kareem and Magic people don't realize

this but Magic's rookie year Kareem was MVP Right Magic was finals MVP but as they started to progress

Pat Riley said, I need more from you. He called him Buck. That's what he called Young Buck. He says, I need more scoring from you. Magic asked Pat Riley to his face. You run that by cap? Did you kill that with Kareem? Right, right.

Because he ain't Kareem. He's going to get that thing down the block. He decided to run it by him. If they could have had that type of relationship, I don't think nobody beat him. No. I think they might, like the Bulls won three and took two years off with it.

If they had, if they'd have had a Kareem and magic type of relationship, I don't think nobody can beat them. No. And I'm mad they didn't. I'm mad because that was greatness. Like, you come on. And we might have never seen that again. No, never.

Because it's a perfect situation, T. Lou, because you got a big and a little. Right. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, and you're never going to get somebody Kobe's skill with shack dominance. Right. You saw it. Right. I'm glad I saw it.

Me too. I'm glad you was a part of. You got an opportunity to see it up close and personal. How dominant was it on every, you know, every night, Shaq going to get you 30, Kobe going to get you 27. Yeah. Kobe going to go score 40, Shaq going to get your 30 and 20. Right.

To watch that every night. Because back then, teams had about four or five big because two bigs, he followed them out. That's easy. That's a barbecue chicken. Foul trouble in the first three minutes. The starting center is out of the game in the first three minutes. And what they don't understand is when you go to Hacker Shack, which is cool, now you're in a bonus with six minutes ago. Now Kobe goes to work.

So any hand check, you know, Kobe's going to the free throw line. You know, so, like, man, come on, man. Like, it just was, I mean, he was just so dominant. That's why, like, when you walk into an arena or you go on the road, like, can't nobody beat us? Yeah. Like, you know, like, we got Kobe and Shack. No matter how things go, how bad I'm playing or D. Fish or Rick. You know, I'm at B. Shaw.

We don't got to make a shot. We know we got at least 70 coming from these two guys. And back then, you was only scoring 80. So we got to get 10 points, you know, between the two. Between the other seven of us. Yeah. So, shit, like, it don't matter. Like, they don't get 70.

Right. All we got to do is get 10. You know what I'm saying? So it didn't matter, man. And so, like, that's how great they were. But, like, a lot of teams have a one-two punch or these are the best two players in the world on the same team. Yes. When has that ever been done?

Do you think we'll ever see another shack? Because people don't realize how Shaq was 7 foot 1, was 325, Shaq could run, Shaq was agile, Shaq could be, I'm trying to think of somebody that that size, maybe Wilk, but I didn't see Wilk play. That's the only person I could think of that was that side that could get up and down to court. But people don't realize how athletic Shaq was.

Oh, man, he was super athletic. Like, you know, take out the glass. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management.

How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dan, he's Ty.

Hello. And we're the solid verbal, College Football Podcast. College football season is here, and you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween. Uh-huh. But fear not. The solid verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss and impossible comeback.

Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make. make sense of all the chaos, and, of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. We don't just love college football tie. We live it. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underwe. way. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiance Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final, the final, and the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate, you can't get back.

Showing up to locker room every morning just to shi-talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all, the guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Simone Boys, host of the Brightside podcast, and on this week's episode, I'm talking to Olympian, World Cup champion, and podcast host, Ashlyn Harris. My worth is not wrapped up in how many things I've won, because what I came to realize is I valued winning so much that once it was over, I got the blues, and I was like, this is it. For me, it's the pursuit of greatness. It's the journey. It's the people. It's the failures. It's the heartache. Listen to the bright side on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Push it, you know, go full forward, no look passes, and just seeing, like, how he moved. Like, you know, people get him, you know, stuff by being the pick and roll, like, you know, whatever.

But, like, he was agile. Like, he can move. He can side to side, laterally. He can up and down. He can do whatever you want. And to be that big and be that dominant. Like, we'll never see that ever again. No.

I mean, I don't, how? Like, not a guy his size that can move like that. You look, there are guys, okay, yoke it, you might, can make better shots, can, you know, that and Joe L&B. But I'm talking about his size, his ability, nobody will ever be that dominant again. Never. Nope. If you were the coach, let's just say, I'm going to make you Phil Jackson. And you're the coach of Shaq and Kobe.

How do you keep him together? How do you make peace? whatever it takes no seriously you can't you can't lose that like that changes people's lives

forever you know not just Shaq and Kobe what feels the field right but the organization

right all of us role players like you know like that changed our lives forever like you keep

those guys together and you get a chance to win six seven eight championships like in LA

right like come on man like no no no better thing and so whatever I had to do whatever I had to say

I was going to do it You know, and so, I mean, you had to. Like, it's no way you can lose Shaq. Right. You know, they had to stay together. And so that was just very disappointing, you know, especially all the success that we had. Right. It was disappointing to see that happen.

I think the thing for me is that Shaq replaying in his mind saying he wish he had done things different. Because he knows. He knows he left, at bare minimum, he left two championships with the Lakers on the court. He knows that. Right. He knows it. I think more than that. Yes.

At minimum. At minimum. Yeah. And so now he sees all these guys winning MVPs and winning titles. And he's like, and people start talking about what he's up there. He's like, hold on, wait a minute. Y'all, y'all forgot about me. I don't know how.

It's never, like I said, it's never going to be a player like Shaq ever again. No. Not that size, not that athleticism, not that dominant. No. Never. And so, like I said, I just said that it happened, you know, the way it did because they were supposed to be together. Right. You know, in my eyes.

What was Kobe like in practice? Because everybody said, like, look, I mean, Lou Will tell the story that he made him take off his shoes because they were bulljiving in the game, that he played hard. What was he like in practice? Because we heard the last dance. Jordan, you know, how he swung on Steve Kerr, that he was not afraid to approach guys,

getting guys' face to make sure everybody was giving their best effort. Not in the game, but practice. What was COVID? What you saw in the game? That's how he was. Every single day. Every single day. He wanted to be the best player every single day in practice, in the game.

And that's just how he competed, you know. And so every time we got a new player, like, you know, Glenn Rice. And Glenn Rice was a bad dude. Yeah. You know, Code wanted to play one-on-one to show him like, this is my team. Yeah. We got J.R. Ryder. Same thing.

Like, J.R. Rr. got there. He wanted to play in one-on-one. Show him, this is my team. Like, you used to, you know, because- You used to be mad at over there, but not here. Yeah. And so that's just who he was, like, competed every single possession, every sprint, every drill, like he wanted to be the best.

And that's no bullshit. Like, it's every single day he was the same person. Would you see in the game you saw him practice every single day? You end up leaving and you go to Washington, you end up at Washington with 40-year-old Jordan. Obviously, he's not the same. He's not the first three-peat. He's not the end-three-peat. He's taking time off and he comes back.

but could you see why he was Michael Jordan? Oh, no doubt. I mean, you see a guy that's 40 years old, and he averaged 21 points a game on one leg. See, people don't take into consideration. Like, he played on one leg, one knee, you know, for two years. And he avered 20 points a game, you know. And so I could just see just coming in to the gym,

like Kobe, like I said, was a super worker. And you see a guy like Jordan, you know, you kind of practice, you know, two hours early. think you coming in about to work out, Jordan's already done. Lathered up, done lifted, sweat on the court, did all his footwork stuff, all this basketball stuff. You're like, damn, like, I came two hours ago.

He's already done at 40. So what was he like at 23, 24, 25, you know? And so you knew that's why he was who he was. And so when I first walked in, I was in awe, like to be able to play with somebody you looked up to and idolize your whole life and to be, you know, you don't even seem real, does it? No.

See? No. People think I'm lying when I say that The first time I saw him He's like he levitating And I'm looking at this man He probably think I'm gonna, he's like Man, Turlin Sharp little brother

Look crazy Because I'm looking at him like he's not Because he's not real T-Loo, he's not real And when people see him Like, you know He never had a lot of security No

Like but when people see him They stop Like because they're like In all like Oh shit that's my And before you can really say something He's already gone Like it wasn't a lot of crowd control

Like because like you see him you just freeze. Like all the other celebrities and stars, like people are going to run to him and go crazy. Right. Nobody ever really ran to Jordan because you can't believe it. You can't believe it. Like, it's just like he's walking.

Like, you tap somebody, you look, you froze. And then you look up, he's gone. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's how it was. It never was like a, oh, and then you rush and go crazy because you just couldn't believe it, you know. And that's just. And he played at 40, he played all 82.

82 games, second year, yeah. It seemed to me back then. I mean, he came in that era. Well, it was important to play 82 games. A badge of honor. I don't think it's important now. No, it's not important now. It's not. It's a badge of honor, especially back then.

But if you look at a lot of the medical, the science, it makes sense. You know, it's like to play 82 games. But see, back then we played 82 games, and then you had a two-hour price the next day. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Now guys play. A lot of guys, they were taking commercial flights before this thing got high-tech and they took

pride charter, these guys were flying commercial. Yeah, going to the airport. Yeah, getting in the airport. Yeah, sleeping in the airport, leaving at 6 o'clock in the morning to catch flights to go to another city. So it was a badge of honor to play 82 games back then. Like, that's what you wanted to do. Right. You know, and so

but with the medical and the science, how it is today, like it makes sense why a lot of us can't walk now. Right. Yeah. Like, how hard we went, all the practices, all the games. Right. So it is a little science to it, but, like, back then, you wanted to play every game. That was your mindset.

I've heard a lot of people say, in today's game, and the game, the way it's being played and the way it's being officiated today. Jorn that is Apex. How many points with the average? Today? Yeah. Oh, man.

45? You boojab and T. Lou? What you mean? You can't test nobody. It's a foul. I mean, you got the best. player in the world. You know what I'm saying? You got the best player in the world. Forty-five, T-Lew!

What, he averaged 36 one year? He averts 77. 37? Yeah. So, yeah, add eight to that. Because every time you get touch, it's two free throws. Right. You know, so, I mean, like, the zone stuff could be a difference. And, you know, like, back came to the legal defense. But, yeah, I mean, I don't see, like, it wouldn't be a year.

He wouldn't average 45. Wow. You couldn't touch nobody. I mean, you can't touch nobody now. Right, right. So, like, the physicalities, you know, pretty much gone. Yeah. Anything, you go into the free throw line and just how smart he was. Especially nowadays, like, take advantage of these guys, you know, just far as just IQ alone.

What's some of the best advice Jordan gave you? So when I first came to Washington, you know, so I was in the triangle for, you know, two years on the field. So when I came to Washington, I was like, man, I got turned loose. Now I can just play my game and, you know. so when I got there I was just playing with pace pushing it just not understanding

really how to play the game but just playing the game that makes sense and so he just taught me like you know different reads how to run the pick and roll if a guy's playing you like this

you know do this it should be your counter and he gave me a lot of confidence you know I think shooting the basketball because you know I can shoot but you know when he kick it out to you like Jordan passed you the ball

you like oh you know what I'm like man I don't give you miss five in a row. If you open, you got to shoot it and gave me that confidence, which the second year when I was there, I was like second in league and three-point shooting. But it all came from that first year. Right. And I don't think I had the confidence that I needed, like said, to play with Jordan. Right. And he gave me that confidence. So going to that second year, I was like, man, I was pissed off because I didn't play the way I wanted to play. I thought I was going to be the starter. Chris Whitney came in and did a hell of a job. He was a starter. He played

well. And then Larry Hughes came in. And then I think that second year, I came in with a chip on my shoulder when we got a training camp like I'm coming in to be the starter right and that happened for me but it all came from that first year Jordan gave me confidence to be the player I wanted to be was he hard on players yes too hard no I mean if you do your job you ain't got to be hard just do your job right yeah so like if you come in every day and do your job right I can't be hard on you right you know but if you slack and if you bullshit and like yeah he wasn't taking that he wasn't going to tolerate that you know so so he was almost like he was he was he was a player coach yeah on the floor.

Right. Like, if you're slacking, you're not doing what you're supposed to do, he's going to call you out. He's going to challenge you. You know, if you can't handle the challenge, then you just can't play. Right. Because, look, he took a 17-year-old kid from Glenn Academy in Kwame Brown,

and Kwame is a 6-11. He was, you know, and everybody said, well, you took this guy, but, I mean, by most draft boards, Kwame was the best player coming out that year. A phenol. Yes. Quammy was. But 6-11 could run up and down the court.

I mean, he had it all. First step, can drive, can pass. You know, like I said, running the floor, he's athletic, can do everything, you know, can do everything. But, you know, when you put a young kid in that situation, I was old, I was four or five years old in Kwame. Right. You put me in that situation, I was already scared to play with Michael Jordan. Yeah, exactly, yes. If you put a 17, 18-year-old kid with Michael Jordan, and then you're the number one pick, so the expectations are through the roof.

Yeah, and so that's hard. That's hard for anybody. I've seen guys that are, you know, great players and guys that, you know, 10-12. All-stars and all the NBA. Play with LeBron. Yeah. You know, get to clear. even couldn't make a shot.

You know what I'm saying? Like, scared of death. So you can imagine, like, an 18-year-old Kwame, like, and Kwame was talented, he was skilled. And he had a great year. He played, what,

12 years, 13 years? Yes. And he was a really good player, you know, and so people look at, you know, what he should have done from the expectations

of being the number one pick, playing with Jordan, but Jordan put a lot of, you know, a lot of... If he had, let's just say, for the sake of argument,

he's still the number one pick and he goes somewhere else. Does his career turn out different, you think? I think so. I think so. You know, because now he's being featured.

The mistakes he's made, the mistakes he made are not being magnified now. You're not on TV because Jordan is there. Right. So you're probably going to a worst team. You know, Jordan, when he came to a wizard, we was bad, but we had a TV time. Right. You still had Jordan, and then with Jordan, there's the expectation. Exactly.

And so if he went to another team, you know, it had been a lot different. You know, he would have been to make those mistakes as an 18-year-old kid, and he'd be able to grow and learn, you know, instead of... At his pace. At his pace. Because everything, when you play with a historically transcendent great player, everything gets sped up. Ain't no learning.

None. You got, hey, go, I had never driven before. Drive. Yeah, and that's how it was, you know, and so he gets, McCorme, he was, man, that was the right pick. He was a bad, he was a bad dude. Also on that team was Charles Oakley. Now, Oak, my, boy.

Yeah. Now, hey, Oak is no nonsense. He ain't going to take no mess. Do what you're supposed to do. He old school. What was it like playing with Oak? I loved it. Yeah, I loved it.

First of all, I walked around, I thought I had security everywhere that went. So I wasn't really tripping off, you know, really tripping off nothing. But what Oak was really good at, he was a chef. Yeah. And so we would go to, you know, in the house. Yeah. He would cook for us like two times a week. He's, man, throw down, like the best of him.

But, you know, Oak taught me a lot, too. Like you said, just, you know, being on time, being a pro, putting in the work, how he saw the game, because he could really pass. Like, you know, just seeing the game, different reads, you know. And so he really was a mentor, like you said, to Kwame and our younger guys. We had a young team, Heidi White, Eton Thomas, like those bigs, like Brendan Haywood, like those guys looked up to Oak, and he really showed him a lot as well. And just, you know, bringing that professionalism as being an, you know, older event, he was really good for us. NBC got the NBA got a part of the NBA package back

one of their contributors, analysts is going to be Michael Jordan what type of analysts I can just imagine the first time he criticized somebody I wonder if they're going to say he don't know what he talking about because they said that by everybody

they said that by everybody else but he wasn't that good he wasn't that good so I wonder if Jordan ever says he didn't play well somebody didn't play well what would that guy say I think they'll take it

but I don't think it's more so to be critical or critique I think it's more so to be around the game Right Like we need them Right

Like we miss them Right You know And so You know we bought the team You know You go play there Once a year or twice

You see him Sometimes Right But like I think we need him Around the game Right You know

And so For our younger guys To be able to see him And see who he is And you know What he's done For this league And you know

Be around the greatest Like I'm how they pull that off NBC I'm trying to figure out How they pull that off because he's a guy like, you know, he likes to be, he's ultra competitive. Right. He got a fishing team.

He used to have a motorcycle team. He has a NASCAR team. So he likes to compete. But he likes to compete, compete, compete, compete. Like him. Right. He like to be on the boat fishing. He liked to be around the cars.

He like, oh, man, yeah, playing cards. I don't know. I know you got them card stories because he was a card. Boo Ray was his, his, Boor Ray Gus. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, oh my goodness. He loved, he loves being competitive. I'm just anxious to hear, to, to see how he, how he sees the game and what he's going to say about the game. Does he like the way the game is being played?

Does he like all these three-point shots? Does he like all these guys? I mean, there are some guys, ain't got no business taking a three-point shot. But the analytics say they need to get up 30, this team needs to get up 30 a game, so anybody can shoot them. Yeah. I'm just anxious to hear what he has to say about that, Lou. Yeah, no, I think that would be interesting, you know. But I think, to me, I think he's going to be more there to help.

I think, you know, help the young guys, help the game grow. You know, he wasn't a big three-point shooter. So I think it said the mid-range game is a lost art. It is. And if teams are going to play in deep drops and let you come off and take that shot, then why would you master that shot? Right. Why would you match for the shot the teams are giving up?

And if you see all the game winners or all the clutch shots, shots or big shots in NBA history throughout the playoffs, they're all mid-range. Like, they're never, like, you know, 30-foot-through, like, staff can make something. Yeah. But other than that, it's always a mid-range shot that wins that game. Right. You know, and so why not master and be great at something that teams are giving up? Right.

You know, so I think he'd be here just to help and enhance the game, like you said, as best he can. You play with T-Mac at two-stop. You were at T-Mack in Orlando and in Houston, right? Yeah, yeah. So there's been a lot being said. and I think T-Mack said it first that had he been on that Lakers team that he believed they'd have won

as many championships is Shaq and Kobe Shaq co-signed what he said and a lot of people are like, come on, bro. Everybody just got revisionist history now and not to say T-Mack wasn't a good but do you believe they would have won as many championships? Because I hate when people do this T-Loo.

A great player well if you to put him on that team it doesn't necessarily mean it's true it doesn't work like that but I think he definitely would have won like I don't know what to

what degree but T-Mack was he had no he had no weaknesses defensively he can guard one two three four he's six nine offensively run pick and roll make the right pass

make the right play post up either shoulder turn around jump shot mid-range pull-ups can finish athletic And, like I say, I think with coaching and I think being in the triangle, like I said, which field, oh, he would have flourished. Like, he would definitely would have flourished.

And then you got Shaq who was, you know, the best player in the world, you know. But, like, I don't know if, like, it's just hard to compare. It is. But, like, what Cole brought every single day, the mentality that he had every single day, like, you got to bring that. And you had to have that and bring it to Shaq every day. Yeah. Now I don't know T.

T. Matt could have done that. Right. Like. Because you've got to push Shaat. Yeah, so Cole pushed Shaq every day. You know, so, like, you know, if Team Matt could he have done that? I mean, I don't know that. Right.

As far as talent-wise, I mean, he was, like I said, one of the most talented guys we've seen in this game. You know, so I think he would definitely would have won, but it's not the talent and the court stuff. It's the challenging Shaq every day, calling Shaq out when he's, you know. When he's not doing what he's supposed to do. When Shaq calls you out, can you handle it? Right. All that stuff plays a part, you know, and then having Phil Jackson as well. Right.

So I think, you know, like I said, it could. it happened, you know, for sure. I think Phil, look, Phil, not to say Phil doesn't know, but I think Phil does a great job of managing egos. Yes. I think that's his, I think that's his greatest thing, is that when you got Jordan, but I don't think Jordan had a rival. Jordan didn't have an equal in Chicago, so it was easy.

I mean, Pippen might say that I was just as good as Jordan, I could have been this and that, that's fine to say now, but Kobe really felt that he was on Shaq's level. Shack really felt that he was that Colby so you got these two horses like that and Phil had to somehow juggle that T-Loo I'll tell you how he did it Day one he came in

and he went at Colvin Shack about everything they had to do to be better for this team to win and he coached them harder and he coached us like we never really like we have film sessions it was all Colbe and Shack it wasn't never Rick Fox

it wasn't never Harper it wasn't never Horse Grant really no it wasn't it was always Cobb and Shack what y'all need to do what you need to do What you didn't do, how you didn't do it. And so he was horrible those guys.

That first year, like, every single day, like, own Kobe and Shaq, own Kobe and Shaq. And so if you get your first, if you get your top two players and your best players to buy in, what are we going to do? Right. You got any choice. Yeah, it got no choice. And that's how he did it. And that's how he led.

And so it just made it easy. Like, D. Fish and those guys ain't worry about nothing. It was Kobe and Shaq. It's funny that you say that because I want a transition. I want to ask you. How? because in football Coach is yelling, scream at the best player

said that's some horse you know what, bulljad. But it seems like in basketball, man, y'all be tipped toward around the superstar. Y'all don't be saying like in football. But you said Phil, challenge Kobe, challenge shack.

How delicate of a line must you walk when you're dealing with that level of player? Back then, you'd have to worry about it as much. But then that was Phil Jackson. Right. So he comes in with instant credibility.

You know, he got six championships. He won six championships. We just got swept in the first round by Utah the year before. Right. Like, so we had no choice but to listen, you know. But nowadays it's a fine line because back then the coach had all the power. Right. You know, and so you couldn't go to the coach.

I won't even fire. I want to mind. They wasn't doing that. You know what I'm saying? Like back then, it's like the coach had all the power. And so now it's changed. So if the start. A star player don't like what the coach is saying,

and you get on the bad side with a star player. Oh, he can get you up out of there. He can get you out of there. You know, so that's why it's a fine line because the coach doesn't have the same authority that they had back in those days. Right. And so now you've got to walk their fine line

because, you know, you can do it. You know, you can do it. And take the chance to take the risk, but I'd rather, you know, have a guy walk all over me. Yeah. I'd just take their chance, you know. So it is what it is.

You're like, hey, nah, bro, nah, da, da, da. I mean, you don't have him get away when they get away with it time. But, like, some stuff you just can't let. Right. You just can't let it. Because the thing is... You lose the locker room.

There you go. And that's what I tell people all the time. I say, they see it. Mm-hmm. I say, and then they're going to like, well, if he's doing it, even though they're not the caliber of player that said player is, if you let him skate too much, then all of a sudden they're going to start coming late. They're going to start missing this.

They're going to start doing certain things. And then after a while... Yeah, but I mean, it's like any company. Like, if you're bringing me... $50 million a year and I'm bringing in $50,000, you're going to get away with more than I get. I mean, you should.

So don't worry about it. Don't keep a scorecard. Production intolerance. Yeah, don't keep a scorecard on what everybody else is doing. You just handle your own business. So in any sport or any business, like the top dollars are going to get away with more.

But if it's something that's destroying a team or mess of a team, then you've got to address those things. But you can't, like, come late every day. You can't, like, that's just disrespect with everybody, you know. With the Rock is, Thibodeo was on that, was on that staff. Assistant coach, yeah, yeah. He got let go back.

I'm Jake Khofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters podcast network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Simone Boyce, host of the Brightside podcast, and on this week's episode, I'm talking to Olympian, World Cup Champion, and podcast host, Ashlyn Harris. My worth is not wrapped up in how many things I've won. because what I came to realize is I valued winning so much that once it was over, I got the blues, and I was like, this is it. For me, it's the pursuit of greatness. It's the journey. It's the people. It's the failures. It's the heartache.

Listen to the bright side on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By the Knicks. and me from the outside looking at I'd like to hear what you think I thought that once they beat the cells because I don't think anybody thought the next was going to go to the NBA finals but when they beat the Celtics

now the expectations go way to here and then you lose to Indiana and then he gets fired is that how you see it? How do you see it? Should he have been fired? Yeah. Hell no. I mean it's the first time

we've been to the conference finals in 25 years. Wow. 25 years. Yes. And so the city was on fire. Yes. The fans were on fire. The players did a hell of a job.

And T.F. did a hell of a job. And so to take a team the first they've been in 25 years and then get fired, like, it's just, it just don't make sense. Right. You know, and so for me, like I said, I thought T. I did a great job. But you never know the inside of, you know, what's going on with the organization. But, I mean, everywhere he's been. he wins

everywhere Chicago Minnesota Knicks every team he's been on he's gotten better you know

and so to do that I thought it was I mean I thought it was crazy yeah because the expectations now

because when you beat the expectations now what the championship I don't think I don't think when they went into the okay

the playoffs starting you see the seating I don't think anybody thought the Knicks was going to be in the Eastern Conference final

because you see the matchup they're not beating Boston right so they lose to Boston, he keeps his job. I believe so. Right. I believe so. But because they beat Boston, and so they beat Boston, the Cleveland's out of the way, well, we smooth sailing.

And then Indiana gets you. And they said, no, we can't. But Indiana was playing great ball. And they had a great team. And Rick Carlis did a hell of a job. Yes. And who knows what happens in Game 7, if Tyree's don't get hurt. Right. So, like, you know what I mean? So everybody, Indiana beat, you want to fire their coach? Like, it don't make

sense. You know, and so. I agree. I agree. I agree. I was surprised that happened. Yeah, and I think, like I said, Tiv did a, did an extraordinary job, and then to get that team there. But now, when you come in, looking at it, okay, we go to the conference finals,

and now what's the next coach supposed to do? Like, Mike Brown, who's a hell of a coach. Yeah. So now if you don't make the easy conference finals, you know, it's just tough. It's kind of like the situation I was putting in in Cleveland. Yes. Like, we made the finals, you know, with Coach Blatt,

and now you bring me in midway through the season, and we don't make the finals and go to game six, And I'm a failure. You know, that's a tough spot to be in. It is. You know. It absolutely is. It's just, it's crazy.

But the knock is always on tips is that he grinds his players. He got them playing 40 plus minutes in the regular season. And when you play that many minutes, at some point in time, you grind them down. I mean, I'm looking at McHale Bridges playing 45 minutes. I'm looking at Brunson playing 43 minutes. I'm looking at OG playing all those minutes. And then. Whatever takes.

Not in the regular season. You know, man, whatever takes to win. You got to get there. Like, no, I'm saying. Like, I mean, what you want, I mean, you don't want guys to practice. Right. And now you don't want guys to play. Like, they already get games off, but you don't want them to play minutes either.

Like, I mean, I don't know. So what's a practice? So give me a practice. Okay, when you got to the league, your practice compared to the practice that you run now. Okay, so we had, when I first got to the league, you play a game. Yeah. The next day, you got an hour and a half two-hour practice taped. You're live.

contact, body-on-body, getting better every single day. Now, practice, I mean, game, practice the next day is going to be a walk-through. You ain't going to have no contact. Guys are not going to go full speed. You probably got 30 to 40 minutes. Oh, we just had the game last night.

What does that mean? Yeah, so there are, no practicing. So, I mean, it's a big difference. It's a huge difference, you know. But the thing is, but think about it, T-Lew, the way you guys did it and you played the many games you played

and the way you practiced you guys had less injuries back then than you do now you had to train your body I think you had to train your body for that but the thing now now the guy's my age we can't walk

I mean we're paying for it now you know in our older age but back then like I think you got to train your body like you said to get to that point and if you're going to the finals like extra two months of the season

like you got to train your body and I think it's no better way than playing games playing minutes and getting in game shape. Right. You know, like, and when I was coming up, guys wanted to play more minutes. Like, you always cried about playing more minutes, you know.

So now guys are crying by playing two minutes, too many minutes, you know. So, I mean, it's a fine line. You can't run guys into the ground. Right. But if you're not practicing and all we got is getting games from you, right. Like, we need 45 a night. We need 45 tonight. Like, you know what I'm saying?

We need whatever it takes. To win. Right. You know. Dirt, you played with dirt. What was Dirk like? a quiet assassin, a quiet leader. He did a great job with just, you know,

giving everybody confidence and bringing everybody alone. Like, he was happy for other guy's success. You know, like Jason Terry and, you know, when guys play, like, he was happy for that. Like, he wasn't a guy that demanded the ball. Like, man, get me the ball. I got to have shots. Right.

None of that. And you look up and like, damn, he's six or seven. All-time and scoring the NBA history. Like, I would have never thought that. You know, since coming out and a drive together. Right. And then having a chance to play those two, two and a half months with Dirk, like, just like all great players, worker, first one in the gym, last one to leave, working on his body, working on his game. And what he's able to do, man, like, I would never saw that coming.

Really? No, never. I would never saw that coming. But then having a chance to play with him and just seeing how he worked and the work he put in, like he was, I mean, an ultra-talent. That one-legged step back. Oh, unstoppable, unstoppable, comparable to Karim's hook. Yes, yes. And now you see how many guys you see to shoot at what leg step back.

KD and all, can't stop it. When you can make a case that the most impressive championship ever won is Dirk's. You look at who he beat, they swept Kobe, and they had just come off back to back. Yep. They went through, they went through a young Thunder team, and then what they did to the big three heat. Yeah. with Dirk

Did Sitting back You're watching that Did you think That Dallas could beat The Heat I didn't think they had a chance I didn't think they had a chance

But Like said that zone That they had was You know It was really hard to figure out Defensive they were really good And then just They all click

They all click In the way they played The style they played Was like Jason and Terry, you know, what he did, in Dirk, and Jay Kidd, you know. They were Sean Marion, right? Sean Marion, you know,

so the roles those guys played and, you know, they bought into their roles, they were starring their roles. Like, they just had a complete team that knew how to, remind me a lot of Detroit Pistons. Yeah, that team to beat the Lakers, yeah. Same thing, you know, except they didn't have a star like Dirk, but like they all just fit together. They all play their role, and they had really good pieces.

You were on that, the O-9 team, the Magic Team, that in you guys long. Did you, did you talk to Kobe before after the... Yeah, yeah, I talked to him. Yeah, I talked to him. And, you know, we're talking stuff back and forth, like, all the time. Like, he just, you know, he's a competitor. Yeah.

You know, always talking shit. But he was, he was locked in. You know, he was locked in. He really wanted that one bad. Yeah. You know, he really wanted that one bad. Because that was the one that was going to tie him with Shaq and four. Yeah.

And he wanted that one bad. And you could just see. when he got that one, man, he was a different person. Yeah. You know, but that Orlando team, that... You had Dwight Howard was on that team. Yeah. How good...

Talk to us about Dwight, because I think Dwight gets fairly uncriticized, gets unfairly criticized because of what he laughing and joking. Everybody doesn't have to have a scowl on their face to get the job done. Right. There's a many, a myriad of ways to do a lot of different things, but end up at the end of the day getting the job done. Yeah. I mean, people want to criticize for anything.

Yeah. So I wouldn't even, you know, look and read into any of that. But he was dominant. Like, he was dominant. And, you know, what I give Dwight credit for is, you know, Stan Van Gundy, who was a coach, you know, he did a hell of a job. And you remember, Jemir Nelson, who went down, he went down. And he still was an all-star of that year. Right.

But Jemir was playing out of this world. And he went down. So they brought me over there halfway through the season, but I was done. That was my last year. And then they brought Rayfer Austin in. who had a hell of a year and really saved a season. But Dwight's dominance, like, on the defensive end, it was like no other.

Like, I've never seen a guy to be at an impact and dominate the game defensively, you know, like Dwight was able to do, rebounding, shot blocking, pick and roll defense. And then with Stan did to take a lot of pressure off him, which was smart, is he didn't feature Dwight in the post, like coming down, just throwing post up, and putting that pressure on the score that way.

It was more out of picking rolls. He's rolling, throwback, Rashar Lewis, down the gut, deep seals, finish, or pick and roll, turquiloo, lobs. And so he was able to finish and get dunks and, you know,

seal, and he didn't have to use skill. Right. I thought it was very smart for a young player. Like, if that was Kwame, coming in, we're not going to throw you the ball on the post.

We're going to, you know, feature you this kind of way. And he had time to grow, it would have helped him out a lot. And that's what Stan did. And like I said, Dwight really, you know, bought into that,

bought into being a defensive player of the year, bought into, you know, like I said, rolling, sailing,

lobs, duck ins, running the floor. And, like, to take that team to the finals, like I said,

Stan Van Gundy, like I said, he did a hell of a job. And, but Dwight, like said, what is he able to do defensively

and dominate the game defensively, it was, it was great to see. Do you believe Dwight Howard should have been a top 75 player?

Yes. Battle of two. Yeah. They did him wrong, man. Yeah. No, Well, he should have been.

He should have been. Your coaching crew, the Celtics. You got KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rondo. I mean, you look at that squad. How? Because now this is really your first foray into, like, being with, I'm talking about great, great players. KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, all of those guys are Hall of Famer. I believe eventually Rondo probably was going to get into the Hall of Fame.

Lou, how do you, how do you, because everybody says, man, Lou is a player's coach. A lot of times the guys go talk to you when they didn't talk to the head coach. They could talk to you, they could relate. Even though Doc played the game, you played the game. And a lot of players say, I like talking to the coach that actually plays the game

because I can see, he sees it through my lens. I see it through his lens. So how have you been able to relate, be so relatable to players while still holding them accountable? I think a thing I learned from Bishaw, like for my rookie year, I mean my second year in the league, He taught me, tell the truth. Like, just seeing him be able to tell Kobe and Shack the truth.

Like, when they mess up, like, man, no, it was your fault. Like, don't go blaming Devon, George. Like, it was your fault. Right. And B. Shaw did that every single time. And I'm, like, just looking at him. And he's like, man, you've got to be able to tell the truth. And so, you know, it took me a long way because when you tell the great players and the star players, like, you know, when KG come out of the game, he might be going crazy.

Man, I didn't foul him. And, you know, Scalibrean be like, man, you didn't foul him. He's like, Lou, you found him. And then he's like, like, cuss me out or whatever. And then, like, you know, three men, you're right, Lou. Give me a doubt. You know what I'm saying? But, like, you just got to tell the truth.

You know, I'm saying. I think stars and guys that, you know, whatever. Like, people respect the truth. They do. Like, if you're real with yourself, you know, two days later you come back, like, you know what? Shannon, you was right. Right. I was wrong.

Like, you were right. You know, and they can respect that. But, like, you know what I'm lying to you? Yes, you do. Like, if you drop a pass, it was a great pass. If you drop it and I said, man, that's a bad pass. Like, you don't like, no, he threw that.

That shit was right up. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm lying to you. Like, and you respect honesty. And that's kind of like, you know, how I was able to deal with these guys is just telling the truth. Right.

So how was it going from playing with Shaq to coaching Shaq? The last year in Boston? Yeah. It was, I really didn't have a responsibility. Right. You know, so, you know, I think, who was, so we had Tibbs my first year doing the defense.

then Lawrence Frank was Longabardi doing defense then maybe I think Mike Long so I really had a response I was still behind the bench so it was just more so just you know

him talking stuff all the time you know but like I didn't really have a lot of responsibility I just really dealt with Doc Moore one than my projects was

I had Rondo and I had KG right you know two of the cragious guys you know what I mean both are fiery yeah both are you know in your face

hey get this get it done so how do you How do you navigate that? Like I said, tell the truth. I think, because me, KG, and Chomsy, we were all three best friends. Right. So me going to balls, that was easy.

Right. So he was there before me. And so a lot of stuff he was doing, like, guys would be like, okay, well, KG's going to do this. You know, he's going to do that. And so when I first got there, like, they were served food after the game. Right. And so it's kind of like really how it opened up for me. Right.

So they were served food after the game. And so they would put the food in the locker room and the coaches would never eat. So one day I'm hungry as hell. So I walk in the locker room and I started fixing me a plate. And so Paul Pierce and Rondo, oh, KG, T. Tilo's getting food. And I was like, what?

So I'm getting my food or whatever. So Kajee, he said, man, Tilo is getting food. He's like, I can't do that about that. So he's like, what? So he's going crazy. Like, oh, man, you let T. So then after that, now all the coaches were able to come in and give... So before, the coaches couldn't eat until all the players ate first.

Really? I'm like, man, we've been up doing scouts and working at seven in the morning. Man, you cray, I'm hungry. Like, we're doing the same thing. And so, like, they couldn't touch the food until the players ate first. So I'm like, man, hell, no, you're tripping. So when I did that, like, it kind of opened up everything. So guys were like, oh, man, can't you let T.

Do whatever you want to do? And so then after that, I just had all their respect, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. KG, everybody talks about KG trash talking. He, I mean, you see, I mean, you, you know, you see him on his pod now, and then you, you know, see him, I mean, you hear some of the clips. He really talked that much? Yeah, he does.

I mean, it's more so to get himself going. Right. Like, you know, he wants you to talk back so he can, you know, so he can, you know, you never heard like, don't poke the bear. Right. Like, he tried to get himself going by talking trash and talking stuff to get himself fired up. But yeah, he, yeah, he was good at it. That's what he wanted to do.

Rondo, can you tell, like for me, I have former teammates that became head coaches. When you're playing with a guy, can you tell he has the qualities, the attributes to be a head coach? Yes. And it's funny because I didn't know I was going to be a head coach. Really? When I played for Doc in 2003, he told me, said, when you get done playing, you can come coach with me. Like, yeah, right, I ain't coaching these crazy. Like, I ain't doing that.

But, like, when it's over, that's all we know. Right. You know, so I know it's basketball. And so Rondo's one of those guys. I mean, he's definitely a head coach. Like, just seeing, like, he's probably the best person I've seen as far as controlling the game, understanding the game, understanding how to call plays, when guys haven't had a shot, when KG needs a shot, when Ray needs a shot, what to call, what to run.

Like, he ain't had to look over a doubt. Like, you would be surprised at all the guys that are great players that can't control a game and call plays throughout the course of a game. but Rondo was the best guy I've seen do that as far as just controlling the whole game, you know, just calling him, don't even have to look at Doc. Right. You know what I'm saying? Just controlling the game,

calling the game, and he was the best I ever seen doing that. And so, like, when you're able to do it on the floor, you can do it on the sideline. Right. You know what I mean? And I think Rondo would be a hell of a coach. But how difficult was that? Because you got a young Rondo, and you got a veteran in KG,

you got a veteran in Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. And to see this young guy come in and do that and let Doc have him have that kind of control. I mean, it was good because he wasn't looking for shots. Now, if I'm calling my own play and I'm shooting 20 shots of game, but he was just doing it. He wanted to get KG going, get Paul going, get Ray going. They had no problem with it.

I'm not going to come in and shooting all the balls, you know what I'm saying? So it was, I mean, they loved it. It was because I hear, you know, like he and, I mean, the reunion, he and Ray didn't get along, him and Paul Pierce and KG for the longest time. And I think, for the most part, I think they've kind of made some amends about Ray going to it. So, so what was, what was Rondo's personality like? He had a tough personality.

Really? You know, Rondo fight a drop of a dime. He ain't taking nothing for nobody. Nobody. Like, and he had that mentality. And so me, my job was more just talk to him about how to control it. You got to control it, bro. How to control it.

Like, it's going to be times for it. Like, I'm all for it. Like, someone got out of line, you got to scrap. You just got to scrap. Right. I believe in that. You know, but it can't be controversy all the time. Right.

You know, and so you got to be able to control it and be able to manage it. And, you know, at times it's going to be called for, but sometimes it's not going to be called for. Right. And so you just got to be able to manage that. And so, but he's a feisty guy, haste to lose, wants to win. And if he don't win, like I said, he's ready to scrap. Are you surprised that he's not in the league? because I thought he played,

I thought he played extremely well the Lakers in the bubble. I thought, I mean, the years he played with the Lakers, I thought he was phenomenal. Yeah, how old is he now, though? It might be a little long, it might be. Yeah. He got to be 39.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I mean, if guys could do it, he could be one of the guys who do it. Because he seemed like he'd take care of himself. Take care of his body, you know, control the game without having to get shots. Right. You know, from that aspect, we remind you a lot of CP.

Right. Like, being able to just control it. game and get guys quality shots every single possession. He's that guy. But you look at, I mean, you wouldn't think, but he has a game where he dropped 40. He's had 24, 25, 27 assists in a game. I mean, it's not like he was like people think, oh, he just, you know, he's just an assist guy. No, no, no. He could score. No, he could score the ball. And so, but like you said, just being able to read the game and

understand how you're going to get on the floor. Right. Like, does he really need to score when you got Ray, Paul, and KG out there? Right. You know, so he picked, you know, when he wanted to score and be aggressive. But I remember, like, the playoff game against Miami having 40. Yes, yes. He could, yeah, he could score the basketball. So, I mean, Rondo was a great player, man.

Like, he don't get enough credit for, you know, who he really was. I agree. This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to Part 1 on. Just simply go back to Club Shet Shay Profile and I'll see you there. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello.

And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We don't just love college football, Ty.

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