Club Shay Shay - Gilbert Arenas

Episode Date: December 7, 2020

On episode 12 of Club Shay Shay, Shannon welcomes in 3-time NBA All Star & host of the No Chill Podcast: Gilbert Arenas.Shannon & Gilbert run through the latest headlines in sports, discussing Gilbert’s viral post about the Nate Robinson/Jake Paul fight, the John Wall/Russell Westbrook trade, the Clippers’ chemistry issues, their predictions for the 2021 NBA season and much more. Agent Zero also revisits his own NBA career, talking about signing with the Wizards after Michael Jordan’s third retirement, his knee injury, playing against LeBron James and more. Gilbert has tons of stories for Shannon about his life and career—plus some of the great off-the-court NBA stories he's famous for—in this lively and engaging conversation. #DoSomethinB4TwoSomethin & Follow Club Shay Shay:                                                                 https://www.instagram.com/clubshayshayhttps://twitter.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.facebook.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.youtube.com/c/clubshayshay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Let's start the show. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Che Che. I am your host, also the proprietor of Club Che Che, the guy that's stopping by today for a drink and conversation. It's a 2001 first team, all-pack 10. He's a three-time All-Star, a three-time All-NBA player. Some call him Agent Zero. Some call him Hibachi. The host of No Chill Podcast, Mr. Gilbert Arenas.

All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, pay the price. Want a slice, got to roll the dice. That's why all my life, I've been grinding all my life. All my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Puzzle paid the price.

Won a slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life. Gil, how you doing today, bro? I'm good. I'm good. Thank you for having me. Hey, you forgot.

What? Most call me the GOAT. You forgot to say the GOAT. Thank you for having me. Hey, you forgot. What? Most call me the goat. You forgot to say the goat. I'm the goat. Oh, you're the goat. Yeah, I'm the goat. You gotta say the goat. And some call him the goat. Gil, how you been? What's going on, bro? Man, I've been good. You know, I've been good. You know, quarantining like everybody else, you know, just trying to figure out what's going on in life. Right. We're going to start present and then we're going to work our way back.

Saturday night, there's a fight that took place. Nate Robinson, former NBA player against U2 Sensation. I guess that's what they would call him. Jake Paul, who also says he wants to take up the fight game. He's been in it for a little while. He's taking it serious. It didn't work out well for Nate. What do you think happened?

Besides the obvious. So, you know, there's a difference between fighting and boxing. You know, Nate is a fighter. He's fought plenty of times in locker rooms. Right. You know, he's used to grabbing, holding, body slamming, you know, trying to hit somebody with the club hit. Right. Well, you know, when you're a boxer, it's timing, you know, it's precision. Correct. I don't think he understood that. I don't think that was told to him. So when he got frustrated, he went into fight mode.

Right. And every time he decided he was going to try to grab and launch, he got popped for it. Right. So why wouldn't someone explain the rules of boxing versus the rules of fighting? But one rule is universal. Keep your hands up, whether it's a street fight or you're in a square or you're in an octagon.

You've got to keep your hands up, Gil. Yeah, you know, it's, if you're not used to it, it's secondary to you. Like, you know, when you took McGregor and had him go against, you know, Mayweather, you can see that he didn't protect himself as usual because in MMA, that's not what they do. They use their hands to grab and counter.

So, you know, using your hands to, you know, block, you know, jabs, McGregor wasn't used to it. You know, so unless you're sparring and that's what you're being taught, it comes second nature to someone who's just used to fighting. So why didn't he go get the proper training? Why didn't he go out and reach out to a Freddie Roach?

Why didn't he reach out to a Teddy Atlas or Buddy McGirt or Floyd Mayweather Sr.? Why not reach out to somebody that could train him properly? Because you're fighting a YouTuber? Oh, so he underestimated me. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did. I'm pretty sure, you know, it's a YouTuber. He's not a professional actual fighter,

so I can go in there and probably try to bully him. And, you know, if you look at the way the fight started that's what Nate was trying to do just bully through him and if you look at both the YouTuber Jake wasn't a boxer either no you know the three the three hits he landed was three hate makers with his eyes closed you know when you slow everything down it's like he's just bending down throwing a over the top haymaker and it's connected but here's the thing but you know this as an ex-professional athlete you respect everyone you underestimate no one and you'll be fine it's when you underestimate your opponent and you look at him. Some of the best

hoopers don't have the best body but you're like, man, he can't do nothing and he lights you up. If you don't give your opponent the proper respect that he deserves, then you deserve whatever happens to you. That's why I sent the text.

We got our giggles off. We got our giggles off. We got our giggles off. And then, you know, while I'm looking at it all, I'm like, well, Nate, wait, hold on. You're not that far off. You know, he's not that far off of what, Gil? He wasn't that far off.

If you look at right before he got knocked down the first time, Jake throws an overhand right. A fighter, he blocks it with the first time, Jake throws an overhand right. A fighter, he blocks it with his right hand instead of his left hand. So if he blocks it with his left hand,

he gets to uppercut him. The fact that he blocks it with his right hand, he gets no counter on it. If he was a boxer, he would have known that. He throws that overhand right, no protection, uppercut him right so that could have been an easy knockout for for Nate Nate could have knocked him out with that punch because he threw too much effort into it but little things like that you know I was you

know explaining to Nate like this is what you need to be trained for so I used to box okay and you know in uh ninth grade you know instead of basketball i just took boxing gloves to school and i used to fight for five dollars okay you know so you know there was little things i was like well nate you could have ended him right there look when you're chasing someone you cannot chase them like this no you know you're chasing them upright. Right. Yeah. But here's the thing, though, Gil. Why would you all of a sudden want to pick up the fight game in your 30? Your reflexes start to slow.

Guys, if you're in the fight game, you have to be able to see punches, to anticipate punches, and not to walk into punches. I mean, at 36, I mean, we are a little slower. But, you know, Nate is one of those freak type of athletes like yourself where the age doesn't really, like, my 36 is probably your 31. You know, so Nate still feels he has it. That's what I'm saying. He's not fighting against an actual professional fighter. He's fighting against a YouTuber who just jumped into it last year.

But that year of training is still above what Nate was ready for. Well, how about this here? Why not pick up bowling? Why not pick up cornhole? Why pick up the fight game? Of all the things that you can pick up once you're done with one professional sport, why not something that's non-contact? You know, I haven't asked that question,

but I do ask it in football when the football players retire and they go straight to... I'm like, at that age, do you really want... And they're like, well, contact is all I know. No. I was done with contact once I was done. I have been taking contact for 26 years. I didn't want to get hit on anymore.

And it takes a special type of person to be able to. And like I said, for me, football was second nature because I knew, okay, in a certain defense, I knew where the hits were probably going to be coming from as a boxer you know if you throw where the punch is probably going to be coming back from and so you can anticipate things you understand how to pivot you understand how to turn but if you're just getting into it it's going to take so long for you to pick that up Gil but you know just like just like anybody who's been in a fight or watched fights, you think it's easier than it really is.

Exactly. You know, you get in, you know, fighting through school, you think, yo, I can knock him out. And then you don't realize the precision, the timing. Yeah. You can't grab me. All that strength. You can't grab because in the real street fight,

see, I believe Nate in a street fight can probably beat Jake Paul. Because he knew what he tried to do. He would rush him, scoop, boom, boom, boom, boom, ground and pound. But in a boxing match, ain't no grabbing. It ain't no scooping somebody up off the floor and dumping them. And I think that's what, like, I think when he was attacking, that was the mentality. and dumping him. And I think that's what, like, I think when he was attacking, that was the mentality.

I'm rushing with the scoop mentality. And that's how he actually was approaching him, and he kept getting hit. So you wrote this hard, you started trending because you wrote, and I won't read it all about, a butt whipping is no different than the first time that you had to guard Allen Iverson, you had to guard myself, Stephon Marbury, some of the other great guards in the NBA

when Nate came in. And you were trying to explain to him, it's not getting knocked down, it's getting up. What are you going to do once they got knocked down and you get back up? What do you do moving forward? What made you write that? Because I'm I'm you know I see everyone's posts I know Nate personally I know what type of person he is he's a he's a fighter he's fierce

he doesn't back down and I know because of you know the Currys and LeBrons everyone laughing that probably hurt him like hurt his soul like I think that hurt more than the actual fight losing to a YouTuber I'm pretty sure losing to a YouTuber he's like but it's your peers you feel like you let him down and you know as as a big bro to him, I'm like, well, no. The letdown is if you don't get back in that ring. No, it's okay. No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that.

Don't do that, Gil. Don't talk that man into another one. Let him go. Hey, hey, hey. You win some, you lose some. Okay, you lost. Let it go. It's okay.

What's the difference between a champion and a contender a champion gets back up one more time but here's the thing if if if somebody beat me in my sport it's okay that's not what my thing is why did he feel he needed to do this see this is the way i look at it and you know how we are if you me and gill we walking down the street and we see a bee nest a beehive or colony of bees they not bothering us now gill gonna go over there and start messing with them and they light him up i'm gonna laugh they weren't bothering you gill you mess with them so you deserve to get stung 10 15 times however many times it took.

That guy didn't call Nate out. Nate called him out because he a YouTuber. Man, I beat the brakes off him and he underestimated it and the dude hit him with a one-hitter quitter. Uh-huh. Now what you do is you call somebody else out that you know you can win.

Go one and one and quit. Quit after the W. That's what I was trying to say. You gotta fight him again. Okay, okay. One more fight, get the win, quit, there we go. So in other words, you want somebody that he can, but who can he be? Cause now people, YouTuber, you can't be the YouTuber,

who you gonna grab? Hey, hey, well, a YouTuber who's been boxing for about a year and a half now. Go, hey, box somebody who just fights. So what he gonna... Who he gonna call out? Tony Hawk? Hey, hey. Do what you gotta do, player. Get you a W is all I'm saying. Get you a W before you quit the game.

So, in other words, you feel that – because I was one of the ones. I mean, the memes – but here's the thing, though, Gil. You know this the new Crying Jordan for the next year. This the new Crying Jordan meme. He's falling fake down. He's not getting over that. Listen, I had about four posts that I had to actually take down before I pushed in. Before I pushed in, I had to, you know what?

I did that about four or five times. So you want a rematch. Not necessarily with Jake Paul, but you want him to fight to have a one-and-run record instead of an oh-and-one record. Yeah, you get knocked down, but come on, get fight to have a one and run record instead of an 0 and 1 record. Yeah, you get knocked down, but come on, get back up. This is what we do. This is what we do.

We athletes, we get back up. If we quit after we got knocked down the first time, there would be no one. But Gil, you know athletes from being a professional athlete, you know our from being a professional athlete. You know our problem is, is because we're grading one thing, we automatically assume we'll be grading something else.

We automatically assume that, oh, I can do that. Oh, I can do that. You know that's what get us in trouble. Yeah. Hey, listen, we just watched Charles Barkley win, right? No, we watched Phil Mickelson win I don't know who, listen, first of all I don't know who thought

That two guys that are non-professional Can beat a professional and even a slappy It's like if you get two non-pros in basketball And you put a current NBA player with another slappy The pro's going to win. Yeah. That's just the way it is. Bill Mickelson is one of the top golfers of all time.

And you actually thought Steph and Peyton Manning was going to beat him and Charles as bad as Charles is. But look, he became a champion. Man. But see, Charles chose something that's not contact. He picked up golf.

You can still be competitive even though you're competing against, you know, you say you're competing against the other guy. You're actually competing against the course. But the course don't hit back. Okay, you go eight strokes or ten strokes over par. The course ain't hitting you upside your head. It ain't hitting you and getting you no body shots. Yeah, I mean, he took his lumps.

He's going to be embarrassed for a while. For a while? Forever? You're not living this down. Hold on. That's why he got to go knock somebody out. You got to go knock somebody out, nigga. You got to go knock somebody out.

That's the way it works. But see, here's the thing. Nate said he was doing this for all the NBA players, for all the athletes. I mean, the culture. I mean, this is for the culture. That's what he said. And we called the air. Now you got everybody.

Now you know how they're looking at us. They're looking at us. Somebody's like, oh, I'm going to try him. They can try me. They won't get a response. I can tell you that, oh, I'm going to try him. Oh, they can try me. They won't get a response. I can tell you that for sure. I'm not getting in no ring. No, no. Hold on. You done

gassed up Nate and got him in the ring, and now you say, even though you got a boxing background, you say you don't want no parts of it. No. Like, I try to do 20 push-ups. Nah. Nah, I'm not even strong enough to get in a boxing, like I tried to do 20 pushups. No, no, I'm not even strong enough to get in a boxing ring. I can tell you that for sure.

So what about MMA? For Nate? For anybody, for any. I think, do you think any, well, I think James Jones could do it. James Jones, oh yeah. Oh, yeah. He's black belt. Yeah.

But that's like something he actually. Thank you. See? Something you actually do, you do, right? But the difference between that and let's say, like, I'm pretty sure like when you're when you're playing you you trained in boxing right

yeah so if you're training in boxing in shadow boxing you kind of think you can really throw them hands but that's what I said he probably was training and really thought he could throw the hands and didn't realize like the sparring part of it, the getting hit,

the reacting, you know, that is the most important. So I don't think he sparred enough leading up to that fight. That's what Mike Tyson says. Everybody has a plan until they get hit. And the thing is with boxing, people don't understand how long three minutes actually is to be or to have your senses acutely akin and to throw punches and also try to dodge punches while breathing. Because what happens when you get tired? Your hands drop.

What also happens when you get tired? Your jaw drop. Now you're susceptible to what? A boom. And there you go.'re susceptible to what? A boom. And there you go. And that's what happens with boxing. And people are like, throw punches. I did boxing when I first got to L.A. about four years ago.

I did boxing for a year. And I quit because I just realized this ain't me. I said, it's hard. I mean, I do three-minute rounds, and I'm talking about like a minute in, and I'm gassed. And I'm not bouncing around like the little weight, and that's what a mistake the first one made. You know, I see everybody else bouncing around, so I'm lying on my toes.

And my trainer was telling me, he said, bro, he said, you too big for all that. You 250 pounds. That's a lot of energy that you're burning. So just stand flat-footed, you know, and just, you know, keep your hands up. You know, throw the punches. You know, I'm hitting the mitt. I'm feeling good.

You know, I'm shooting. He's like, give me a one-two. Boom, boom. Give me a one-two, three-four up, you know, throw the punches. You know, I'm hitting the mitt. I'm feeling good. You know, I'm shooting. He's like, give me a one, two, boom, boom. Give me a one, two, three, four, boom, boom, boom, boom. Okay. You know, I'm doing all that. Man, 90 seconds in, I'm spent. He's like, okay. You know, so my hands drop and he'll touch me.

Okay, that's a hit. Now, hit you on your arm. That depends on your face. I was like, oh, okay, I'm up. So, you know what I'm saying? So, he's doing all that. So, there's a lot going into boxing. Yeah.

I think he just underestimated him. You know, being a YouTuber, probably been in there a year, he figured he could just roll through them and then work in his favor. Swaggy P, Swaggy P had a response to your response. Mm-hmm. So, you and Swaggy P go get in the ring, go put the gloves on? Hell no.

Hey, I had to, you see he didn't respond, right? What happened? Huh? I pulled up on him. Boy, you better not even go on Instagram and try to challenge me in no fight and have people looking at me because I ain't doing it. We might as well just,

we might as well establish that right now because I ain't doing it. We might as well establish that right now. I'm not doing it. You won. 1-0. I gave up. I saw where Kobe – you follow MMA. You're big in the fight game. I saw where Kobe Covington, he's always trying to call out –

he's a MAGA guy. He's always trying to call out, especially black athletes that were protesting police brutality by taking a knee. He called out LeBron and says, I would give King James half the amount of time that it took the YouTube guy to do that to Nate Robinson. What's your response to him?

They just chasing. They chasing the fame. You know, they're there. You know, you got to remember some people, they're banking on the response. Right. That's all they care about. You know, he knows LeBron is not going to fight him. LeBron is not going to fight anybody.

But he needs the response. Right. To bump them up into that next category of fame. You know, and some people, some people, that's all they're on Instagram for is, because you got to remember, even with Nate, you know, he's 300, 400,000 followers.

Right. He challenges him. He's millions now. Right. You know, so it kind of worked. I mean, you know, for those extra, you know, 900,000 to a million followers, you just took some lumps for it. You know what?

I looked at them last night. I was searching who has the most IG followers. Cristiano Ronaldo has like 243 million. I think The Rock is next at 208. I think Ariana Grande is at 205. I ain't taking no ass whipping for 200 million followers. Nah, bro, I'm good. I keep my little 1.8 building like 500 a day.

I'm good, Gil. Yeah, me too. I'm with you. Me too. Oh, there's a trade that happened. John Wall, Russell Westbrook. Who won the trade and why? Wow. Both their contracts is up until about what? Westbrook. Who won the trade and why?

Both their contracts is up until about what? 2023? Three years. About $132 million. On both players, right? Both players. Both players shoot about the same from the three. Both players shoot the same from the field. Both players have an injury history.

One's coming off a torn ACL and Achilles, and the other guy has knee problem that's probably bone on bone. You know, it's hard to say who won because it's who meshes better. Do Beal and Westbrook mesh better than James Harden and John Wall? Because that's all it comes down to. I mean, you got to say something about Westbrook because the fact that he averaged 27 and 10 and not really having a ball as much as he's used to

kind of tells you he gets it somehow. But he wasn't happy. He wants to get back to playing like he played in OKC, dominating. Because that's why it's so hard to judge this, because all three guys are high usage guys. All three guys need the ball in their hands in order to be effective. And so Russ, because this uh john walls last year 2018 he was second in time of possession with the ball in his hand behind hard but russ and

hard normally goes back one two one two as far as usage so how do we know who's going to mesh better when they're basically the same guy i i think wizards win a little bit on this one because even though Westbrook needs the ball, he's not a bouncer. He doesn't need many dribbles to actually do what he's trying to do. He gets right to the point. You know, he's going to take you off the dribble and score, take you off the dribble and pass. And the fact that Bradley bill can spot up and, and, and move without the ball, Paul George played well with Westbrook that year.

And bill is kind of like a, a, a Paul George type where he doesn't really need the ball to be effective like that. So I think that a mesh better than two't really need the ball to be effective like that. So I think that a mesh better than two guys who need the pound. Well, because you look at it, I think Rustbrook Westbrook should probably average double digit assist because he has Barton who can shoot Bradley bill who can shoot. So he should, you know, he should average double digit assist.

You know, it's so funny. Both of them probably going to average double-digit assists. You know what's so funny? Both of them are probably going to average double-digit assists because the problem with Houston is when Harden is doing what Harden does, everyone else loses out. Yeah. But because John Wall has that point guard vision, a lot – Eric Bourne is going to eat. You know, if P.J. Tucker. Eric Garner's going to eat. You know, if P.J. Tucker's there, he's going to eat a little bit more.

So John Wall is going to be the pure point guard like Chris Paul was. But the difference is, is that John Wall is a two masquerading. Russell Westbrook is a two masquerading. The true point guard is like a Chris Paul or Rayjean Rondo. Most of the point guards today are twos masquerading as points. Kyrie Irving, he's really a two masquerading as a point. What makes you so convinced that John Wall is going to mesh better with Harden than, say, Russ or CP3?

Because you have to. What do you mean you have to? You have to. You got to remember, just like anything, it's you're going into a new city, you're going into a new problem. There's already a king there. You have to sacrifice.

You have to sacrifice, you know, just to survive sometimes. You know, you can't go in there, you know, thinking you're going to dominate that ball. You know, just to survive sometimes. You know, you can't go in there, you know, thinking you're going to dominate that ball. Like, I mean, and I'm going to say it. Harden is going to have to reevaluate how he plays the game. Thank you. I'm glad somebody said it.

Because you've done had everyone now. You done had everyone. And everyone has came and gone. So is it them or is it you? Because think about it. You wanted Chris Paul and then you didn't want Chris Paul after a year. You wanted Russ and then you didn't want

Russ after a year. You had Dwight Howard. You had Clint Capella. I mean, at some point in time, even Kobe said it, rest his soul before his death. He said, that's a great style if you like, you know, he going to put up phenomenal numbers, but you can't win a championship like that. So do you want to win a championship

or do you want to have, be known as one of these elite scorers and be known one of these, the best player never to win a championship? Is it James Harden? Is it Karl Malone? Is it Charles Barkley? Is it Patrick Ewan? Because that's the road he's headed down.

Because there's no true offense. You know, with the new owners coming in, that's coming from Wall Street. Right. You know, and all they're doing is just crunching numbers on, you know, statistics on how the game should be played. Right. You give a guy who's a one-on-one player a whole game of one-on-one.

Right. And one-on-one is the last four minutes when the game counts. Crunch time game, the last five minutes, when the game counts. Crunch time game, the last five minutes of the ball game. Yeah, that's where James Harden, Kyrie, Damian, that's where you excel. That's where you get to, okay, the offense, everyone's keyed in on the offense. You use your natural ability to get us buckets. Right.

Not from – not 48 minutes of it it and that's what the game has turned into 48 minutes of a one-on-one style so when i look at the how his game is played i said technically he's the easiest person to guard but hard to guard because he's perfected this style that's still but but he doesn't he doesn't know how to backdoor, doesn't know how to flare, doesn't know how to come up with a three, up three. He doesn't baseline run. He don't post up.

You have this great offensive guy who only has one offensive tool. Dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot. Dribble, dribble, dribble, step back. Dribble, dribble, dribble, drive. You don't have a you have no tool dribble dribble dribble shoot dribble dribble dribble step back dribble dribble drive you know you don't have a you know you have no no complete offensive game where everyone can actually eat are you surprised that the Clippers came up short and all the rumblings you were hearing about what

transpired in the locker room and what ultimately may have led to them not succeeding this past season oh no no i knew they was i knew they were terrible why because even from the beginning i said they never established who team this was so what ends up happening is you have a clipper team the year before that this was lose team lose should have made made the All-Star game that year. And then you bring in two stars. You got a team who don't – we don't need you two. We just made the playoffs. Right.

Right? And took two games off a healthy Golden State. Yeah. And then what ends up happening is you two come. You guys are load managing. We're holding it down. You guys are getting the credit for it we're holding it down you guys are sitting out of practice we're holding it down you guys are all stars hold on and because they publicly never said all right this is how the team is.

This is who's the star. This is who's going to take the shots at the end. Because that never was established, when it got to playoffs, that was going to happen. See, everyone thought they were great because they beat the Lakers. But nobody paid attention to, well, all four games, the Lakers was up 15 points in the first quarter, and then they had to panic and put in the two bench players,

which that's all they had. You got two starters, two bench players. So you're saying they got the deepest bench in the league. No, no, no, no. They got two players that's averaging 40. If you put those two players as starters, they have no bench. So the fact that they actually didn't have a real full roster, they were going to get beat if you just shortened the possessions.

Because now you got four Lions trying to eat the same meal. I look at the Clippers. Do you think the leaders, becauseawaii never had to be a leader in san antonio tim duncan tony park amando when he went to toronto kyle lowry was the leader paul george was not the leader in okc that was rust so you really never had leaders and kawaii style of leadership and this is what i tell people uh gill kawaii style of leadership is good as long as you're winning because Kawhi just wants to go out there and hoop.

Kawhi's not going to call a team meeting. He's not going to have the guys over and talk and try to get through things. But the moment you get to that deep water, now what do you do? You look over there at Kawhi, okay, Kawhi, what? Just go hoop. Now, bro, what you going to tell us? Am I off? No, no, what you going to tell us? Am I off? No, no, no.

You're correct. Like, you know, and that was the biggest issue that I seen. Because the leaders was. Trev and Lou Will. Was the leaders. You know, and you got, you know, the Chicago dog, you know, Pat Bev, you know, he's the one that gets some fire, but you got to remember it's them three in the rest of the locker room versus these two. So when shit got crushy, it's yo.

Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe.

This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that?

Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight

to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away?

Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast at NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal, every day. Subscribe today, and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends.

And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week,

you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claibon, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic,

and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast at NFL Daily

with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we really, do we, are they really, are they really the stars or is it us? You know, it was a division. Are they really the stars or is it us? You know, so it was a division.

I think the thing is, it's one thing to know that you have privileges and benefits. It's another thing to exploit those. When you're, okay, you can live wherever you want to live. But that also means you got to get up earlier and get here to make sure you're on time. Because when you show up late, Gil, the one thing that I hated was for someone to be late. because basically what you're telling me, Shannon, my time is more important than yours.

Even though I know you had to get up and get here on time, my time is way more important. So I'm cool. And so they're looking like, hold on, Doc. Why you keep allowing this to happen? Ain't nobody telling him to move to San Diego. So we got a hold of the plane. Doc, why you keep saying that we need to practice, we need to get together, but you let him sit out practice?

You let him miss the games. Why do you keep saying what we need to do when all you need to do is tell his butt to practice? That's where the leader steps in. See, like, on a team like that and you're coming in and you have a low management that's going to happen, that should have been talked about at the beginning. Right.

Like, you know, in my Wizard days, I was the leader of the team. Larry Hughes. I was Kawhi. I played. You tell me to headhunt this person, I go give them business. You tell me, hey, they ain't getting the ball, okay, I'll give them the ball for a couple possessions, then I'm going back attacking.

You know, that was Larry's job to make sure everyone was happy because my job was to kill. That's all I knew. Right. And then when he left, then it was Antoine and Karan. Right. You keep the locker room. That ain't my job.

I come in, I have fun, I do my job, and I go home. You know, and that's why there was never no beef with us. We knew who was who. Right. Yeah, I might be the face, but you guys, you're the captain. You guys run this. I'm the face up here because I'm the sexiest out of the three. I'm the one that's going to be on the billboards,

and I'm going to get the big money. But as a unit, we're moving how you guys want us to move. Do you think that Paul George coming in and thinking he's a superstar, and, okay, maybe you can understand Kawhi. Kawhi is a two-time finals MVP. He's a two-time defensive player of the year. He's a many-time first-team all-NBA player. So, you know, him getting certain privileges, okay, you understand that.

But the guys are looking at Paul Jordan like, hold on, PG, wait a minute, bro. When did you become LeBron James? When did you become one of these, you know, one of these historically great players that you'll get the load managed, that you'll get the call shots about practice? At some point, you know, as an organization, you got to take responsibility too. Mm-hmm. At some point, you know, as an organization, you got to take responsibility too. You know, because you do have two stars coming in, you know, Paul George coming off with two shoulder surgeries. Right.

So with two shoulder surgeries, I'm pretty sure he didn't get to really train the way he's used to training in the summer because of it. You got Kawhi Leonard who load management that whole next year. That should have been established before this season started. But you got to remember, there was going to be animosity anyway. Because you got two guys who are carrying a load, but these two are getting all the credit. Right. So, you know, but you have to be aware of your surroundings too.

As Kawhi and Paul George, you got to understand that, hey, we're going to have to give these two some credit publicly. Right. You know, we can't keep taking all the – We can't keep – everyone's cheering us on and we know what they're doing. You know, you got to be able to understand the layup. You know, Lou and Trez has been holding it down while we've been taking some breaks. And, you know, that's what makes us special.

Like, and that right there stops a lot of envious, you know, tension in the locker room. Yeah, because I think the thing is what happens is if you get guys that are established, that have been there, and have had a certain level of success, not the success that Kawhi has had as a team or as an individual, I think guys become resentful in that they see what you're getting credit for, but you ain't practicing.

You win every third or fourth fourth game and everybody's talking about we're winning because of you but we play every game we play hard every game and you sub yourself in and out when you want to you practice when you want to if ever and what how that takes a special person to understand that. Right. And, you know, I remember when I went by the same logic, when Kobe said he wants to know, like, forget the opponents. I want to know my players to the T. Right. You know, I want to know how they take.

I want to know how they move, how they like their shots, how they think. Like, you have to know your players better than your opponents right so you would you would know how Trez feels you would know how Lou feels right so you know when to give them credit right you know and and and those are the I like I remember like when you have that bad game but you you win and you say yeah great team win deep down you're mad like damn you know they not a thing they can do without me you know and that's where that that great team win that you know that's but instead of saying great team win you point out the people who at who had great games because you gotta remember if you're the face you're leader, they care more about what you say than what the media is going to write. Right.

You know, so you – you know, as players, you got to understand these little things. These little things of just communicating can stop a lot of problems and stop a lot of breakups in organizations. Everybody can't play with a historically great player because one thing you know is going to happen, that when you win, they're going to get the credit, and when you lose, they're going to give the blame

because they're going to say the bench, the role players didn't show up. That's just the way it's always been like that. Magic, with the exception of maybe a game here or there, Magic wasn't going to get any blame. Kobe and Shaq weren't going to get any blame. But Rick Fox and Fish and all those other guys, and you know if you play with LeBron, this is how it goes. So basically it goes LeBron and AD and then everybody else.

You got a role to fill. You've got to fill that role. But I think LeBron does a great job of, okay, guys, we going out to eat. Okay, guys, we're going to get together in the room. We're going to to eat okay guys we're gonna get together the room we're gonna have a playstation tournaments or guys he does a great job of not just being a great basketball player but being a great as far as team building the uh uh in the locker room because people don't realize how far chemistry go yeah that is the most that is the most important, you know, aspect of just winning.

Yes. Being great teammates is having a relationship outside of that court. Because what ends up happening is if we have a friendship outside of that basketball court, whatever happens on the court, it stays on the court. Right. It stays there. So, you know, you might have a bad game and I yell out something, you don't take it personal.

Correct. You know, but if we don't have a friendship and that happens, it rolls over. Yeah, I'm looking at you sideways. Who do you think you're talking to? Yeah, all right. That's, you know, four, five games, you know, I ain't pass you the ball. oh, all right, that's, you know, four, five games, you know,

I ain't pass you the ball. You know, but LeBron has done a great job of bringing teammates together, like, you know, including everybody. Right. You know, so whatever happens on the court, it's not personal. Like, even with J.R. Smith, we all yelled at J.R. Smith for the dumb. LeBron's never said one bad thing. We did it for him.

Yes, yes. You know, because he knows this was just a moment. Our friendship holds tighter than this moment. Do you believe that's what happened in Golden State when Draymond said what he said to KD? Do you believe because they weren't per se friends off the court that that spilled over? Or was it what he said? Not so much that it's what he said.

No. What he said is meaningless because we hear that all the time. That's just – we're going to hear that from 25 opponents. He's probably said it a hundred times. But the problem comes down to this. Because he is the new guy there. And they've already established who's the leader of the group. So you got Draymond as the leader of the group.

Correct. And then everyone else is players. So if you look at the history of Golden State's time together, they never actually established who was the go-to guy. We knew Steph Curry's the best player. He's the MVP. But nobody actually, like, paid attention to, well, the fact that these guys have actually set in 34 quarters,

full fourth quarters, that means they've never actually had experience in close quarter matches. So what ends up happening is Draymond was used to getting the ball, taking off, and making that plate if they ever actually got in that moment. There was never no give it a step, let's run a play. So if you ever looked at Golden State last two-minute basketball and close games, they were horrible. They were horrible because they were rarely in those moments. So when KD comes, he's used to those moments.

So he's like, give me that ball. And Draymond takes off, turn over, and right there, the perfect storm hit. I feel that that was the moment that they couldn't come back. Because I think KD thought Draymond said, because he said he called it that and said you've been there. Said, you know, we didn't need

you. We won before you got here. Because now, angry people, drunks, and kids will normally tell you the truth, Gil. Yeah. So – But you got to remember, they played against each other, so he done heard it from Draymond anyway.

The media said it anyway, so he's done heard it all anyway. It's just the perfect storm hit those two. Draymond's used to doing it his way. Kmond's used to doing it his way. KD's used to doing it his way. And when it clashed, it clashed in the wrong way. Yeah, but it hit different when your boys – I mean, somebody outside can say something. But when your boy call you that, that's a little different, Gil.

That thing hit different. Oh, no, it do hit different. But if they had a friendship – I mean, listen, I had teammates knock on my door, you know, after games because of stuff. I stayed on the court. Right. I didn't answer the door, but they knocked.

I figured once they go to sleep and wake up, we cool again. So I just let it. But here's the thing. Were they friends or were they acquaintances? Or did KD come there for a specific purpose and to get on? Because I never felt KD was going to retire a Golden State Warrior. I thought he came there to do what he did, get those rings, get that monkey off his back so you can no longer say,

Kevin Durant is the best player, he's number one in the championship, and that was it. He was going to bounce. I never thought KD was going to spend the rest of his career. No, no, no. You had – and I don't – you know, when KD decided he was going to leave, no one really put the thought into it. No one really said, all right, what would you do in this situation?

So, if you took a look at his stats and said, all right, what would I do here? You got four scoring titers, MVPp three uh all-star mvps i mean you was a hall of fame player first ballot by the age of 28 the only thing you didn't have was a finals mvp and an nba championship right that's the only thing as an offensive player that you needed off your bucket list right and this team right now can give you both of them. Because you can go to Cleveland, you can go to Cleveland, but they said, no, we good. We keeping our team.

Next up is Golden State. He only had two teams to go to, Cleveland or Golden State, where he can knock that off right there. Right. Other than that, nobody was in position to beat those two teams. So what's your early prediction of 2021? Back-to-back. Really?

Back-to-back. What about the Nets? They got Kyrie. They got LaVert. They got KD. They got Din Nets? They got Kyrie. They got LaVert. They got KD. They got Dinwiddie. They got Jared Allen. They got Joe Harris.

They got Tyler Johnson. They got a nice squad over there. Listen, I watched them. I watched them for two weeks. They playing amazing. They're working together amazing. They playing amazing. They're working together amazing. But let's not forget, LeBron and that Cleveland squad,

whatever that team was that went last place after he left. Right. Remember, you know, they went dead last after he left. Went up against KD, Curry, Clay, Draymond. Right. Full juggernauts. There's only two now. And he got help.

So unless they're going to get Harden and Westbrook over there, I don't see it. Not in seven games. Ooh. I think that's the matchup everybody would love to see. No, it'd be a good matchup, but you got to remember, LeBron himself, he takes out at least two stars. You know, Kevin, KD is going to is gonna he's gonna match him point wise right but

the little things you know lebron does is what keeps him a little bit over kd when it comes to as a player and then now you're gonna have to match anthony davis up and kairi is not gonna be able to match that play so So Lakers is going to edge. But it's going to be a battle. Giannis, what does Giannis need to do to win the championship? Learn how to play basketball. So you can't Eurostep everything from the free throw line? I mean, you...

To be honest, he's the James Harden of the West Coast. I mean, of the East Coast. What James Harden is in the West is what Giannis is there. You have a guy who's not the point guard, who dominates the ball, and he's playing one style.

And that style is I'm going to try to take all my – all the big men who can't move off the dribble, year on to the step, and get some dunks. That is amazing during regular season. But when that court gets small, you cannot do that anymore. Right. You can't play that. You can't play that style.

Right. You can't play that. You can't play that style. And, like, he's like Tebow, but not in the red zone. Right. No, no, no. You got to – no, no, no. You're going to have to make some actual plays before you get here. Right.

God damn it. Like, I know you good here. You good when nothing – when you don't have to think. No, no, we're going to bring you back here. Let's get you to that point. So, when the court gets small, that style doesn't work. So what do you think, obviously, so what would you tell him to work on? Because I think until he can shoot a 15-foot jumper consistently,

until he can shoot better from the three, and then he's terrible at the foul line. So basically, is he the dunks or layups? Yeah, he's going to need to get back to the basket where they can actually double him. You got to remember, to utilize your shooters, someone has to be double.

Right. So if your style is drive, hero, spin, dunk, and you decide to pass it, well, those guys are still guarding. So now your shooters are not getting easy about it he's like it's like blake griffin because you were so used to playing this style

when it counts no one else gets to eat so unless he learns how to play back to the basket where when he gets the ball teams are actually shifting now now now now middleton hit three threes now they got to play you one-on-one. Now you can go score. Now you can do those little things. But Holiday kind of helps them a lot. He helps them a lot. Let's talk about your NBA career. What are you most proud of?

That I got to live out my childhood dream. You know, I grew up a fan. And, you know, I got to live and play this game from a fan standpoint. So I enjoyed every bit of it. I enjoyed signing autographs, taking the pictures, doing the happy birthday, shaking everybody's hands. Like, that's what I enjoyed. Taking my jersey off, throwing it,

watching the kids go crazy. Like, I enjoyed all of it. What would you do differently? Or do you think your career ended prematurely? You know, not, you know, what I would do differently is, like, take the injury I had serious. Like, you know, when you get injured, you're put on pause. You know, so going into a summer where you know you're you done you done you you

you done stepped into another realm of play you know and you're trying to get better you're trying to get better you know you're trying to catch the Kobe and the Steve Nash and it's like I want to train this rehab stuff that can wait I don't know what y'all trying to do these little these little movements that ain't that ain't that ain't gonna get that ain't gonna get me 40 at night I don't know what y'all doing here you know so I didn't take that serious right and end up having three knee surgeries in in 14 months you tear your you tore your ACL, right? No, MCL, PCL, meniscus, micro fracture.

Oh, yeah. So basically you're like bone on bone at that point in time. No, I had a little bit of meniscus left. Right. You go to the Bay, you start out in the Bay, and then you go to D.C. after Michaelael leaves what was the culture

like in the locker room after michael left because i know you heard stories okay so you know what's so funny this actually actually, this will make it make sense, everything. My contract, all of it will make it make sense. Okay. So I'm in Costa Rica when everything went sour with Michael Jordan. Okay. So I think there was like this little thing going around where no free agents is supposed to go to Washington.

Right. So when I get off, you know, and I'm getting offered, you know, I think I was second. I think, yeah, Lamar Odom was the number one free agent. I was number two. So I was, you know, talking with Miami. They were going to draft. They just drafted Dwayne Wade, and they didn't know. They were going to – they just drafted Dwayne Wade, and they didn't know if they were going to put him at the one,

try him at the one, and they didn't – you know, Pat Roddy said, I don't believe in paying young players. Clippers, they were being forced to pay because they had all this money and all these free agents. Utah, I didn't want to follow John Stockton who just retired. That wasn't my game. I felt my career would die me trying to

do me and that's what they've been used to for 20-something years. It was basically Washington, D.C., and Clippers. What ends up happening is I think I went to go visit. I went to go visit in April and said, because that was my dad,

what happened with you and Michael Jordan? And he told him. He said, you know, I didn't like the way he was talking to the team, you know, the way he was treating the team. I asked all the players, do they want him back? And the player said no. So I had to renege on the deal that I did with MJ. And, you know, I felt bad, but, you know, it's the team.

You know, I did what the team wanted me to do. Right. So it was like, okay. And then, you know, and he and he was like listen if you come here whatever we have whatever we get it's yours just get me out of this MJ horror you can be the you're the you're the face you'd be the face we don't have a face here we have you know Clint Portis but you know you can be a real you can be a real star in this he said we have Clint Port, you know, Clint Portis, but, you know, you can be a real star in this. He said, we have Clint Portis, you know, he's a star,

but you can be a real star with your personality, with your play. You know, the city is really trying to figure out who to grab on to. Nobody – that story has never been told what transpired between Mr. Polian, the former owner of the Wizards, and Michael Jordan, is that he said he didn't like the way he talked to his teammates. To the players. It was, you know... MJ's MJ.

And a player personnel because he was in charge of drafting players and he was also a teammate and was also playing. When MJ comes down to play, he's Michael Jordan. It's not general manager Michael Jordan. It's the player Michael Jordan. So that player Michael

Jordan, if you've seen The Last Dance, that's the Michael Jordan. He's going to push and push and he's going to be competitive. A bunch of 18, 19, 20-year-olds, they don't understand that. They can't take that. That's what they were crying like. Oh man, if that's the way he talked to us, what happens if he's our boss we're never going to be

able to you know and that was the and that was the thing and you know mr poland you know made his decision you know so when when when i decided to come my whole thing was, I have one job to do and he has my back. Right. My job is to make it less MJ talk. Did – when you signed, did MJ call you and say, man, what the hell you doing? I thought we had an agreement that you weren't going to go there. No, no, no, no, no. That was the – like we didn't have the agreement.

That was like the rumor that I heard. Right. Like, yo, like nobody's, no. That was the, like, we didn't have no agreement. That was, like, the rumor that I heard. Like, yo, like, nobody's supposed to be going to Washington. I'm like, man, Washington ain't got nobody. You know, Brian Russell just opted out, so it bumped the cap up. You know, so I'm like, I can really, I can, I mean, he said he gonna have my back. You know, you know, if he said he gonna have my back's going to have my back. You know, if he said he's going to have my back, he's going to have my back.

Right. You know, so I came, I did my thing, and this is how I got paid $111,000. Ernie Grunfield, when we was negotiating, I had three surgeries already. I think, no, I had two. And I decided I was going to opt out. I think, no, I had two. And I decided I was going to opt out. Ernie Grunfield negotiated his ass off. I'm not going to lie.

Like, it was one of those where I knew I didn't have any leverage because I had two knee surgeries. I only played two games. So I decided I was going to have my Agent Zero tour start July 1st. The first day of free agency. So I didn't like the way this was going to have my Agent Zero tour start July 1st. Right. The first day of free agency. So if I didn't like the way this was going, I can go out of the country.

Now you guys are going to have to wait and then watch the rest of the free agents, and someone's going to panic. And then now someone's going to be tricked to give me some money. be tricked to give me some money so what ends up happening is the first the first domino was uh baron davis opts out and golden state gets all this money so uh rumor rumor hits my phone a rumor i hit a little birdie said hey golden state at 12 o'clock is going to offer you five a year, $101 million. And I was like, all right. But I mean, I was like, man, I just bought a $5 million house with a helicopter. All right.

So, you know, I'm going into the meeting all cocky. What's happening, y'all? What's happening? You know, and, you know, I'm going into the meeting all cocky. What's happening, y'all? What's happening? You know, and, you know, Ernie doesn't spill. You know, you did great for the city. You know, you know, they love you here. We love you here. And, you know, we think you deserve this.

And, you know, he pushed that contract to me. You know, smile. Yeah, baby. You know, and I seen, and I'm not gonna lie, it was six year, 86 million, like, I had to, like, you know how you, like, rub your eye, because I thought it was a one missing, I thought it was, you know, 180, 186 million, 86, like, whoo, this is, this must be Antoine's money. You might have had a wrong check. This is what Antoine's trying to get.

This ain't – That ain't A.J. Vero money. Yeah, I'm in – I think I'm in 120, something like that. This is – this is – whoo, you off a little bit. And he was like – and I was like, I don't mean to be rude, but I'm going to get the max from Golden State. Baron Davis is opted out. So they actually, hold on, did the research and realized he opted out. So I said, you know, on that note, you know, I got to get up early in the morning.

I got to go fly to China and do my tour. And they were like, when do you come back? I said, July 11th. And they were like, wait, what? I was like, yeah, July 11th. I like when you come back i said uh july 11th and it's like wait what i was like yeah july 11th i'm gonna come back so i'm gonna sit and think about you know the two offers that i have i got the 86 million here and then i got the 101 for five there woke up in the morning phone rings a poland hey listen do not worry about nothing that happened earlier this morning i just found out no no the max is yours whatever the max is 120 150 200 whatever it is is yours that's your money you earned it i told

you when you came you you you you held me out of this jordan situation I was going to take care of you here it is max is yours you do with it how you see fit do not worry about what they offer you because that was not me you want 130 you want 150 I got to write your personal check let me know because, you're going to be the last contract I sign. Wow. And that was our conversation. Man. So, Mr. Pauling was good to you. He was great. When he said he had your back from the beginning, he had your back to the end.

Yeah, he did not, like, need. I don't care if you play one game, 4,000 games. You're going to be the last contract outside. You're my guy. Wow. So I took 111. So my max was 127. So I took 111 to save $16 million

for free agents or Antoine, who was also up. Right. That's awful nice of you. Yeah, babe. Listen. Hey, hey, listen. Hey, the man blessed me with whatever you want. Shit, I gotta feed everybody else too. Because the thing is, normally, I think Kobe said this.

Kobe said, yes, I'm a millionaire, but why would I give a billionaire a discount? Because they don't give anybody a discount. But for you to do that, so someone else get an opportunity to eat, I think you should be commended for that. I think you're foolish, but you should be commended. Yeah, but the commend comes from the owner. I had a relationship with the owner. Yes, you did.

You know, just like anybody. Hey, listen, there's someone who writes that check, and then there's a whole bunch of people in the middle of them. Right. I don't care about the people in the middle. I want to know who that check writer is, that's who i'm talking to how you doing because when it's time to sign a contract to be traded i want to be a person not a name on the

sheet right you know what i mean like oh you crunch your numbers and say we don't need you whoa hey mr poland how you doing are you jogging i'm gonna go ahead jog with you what's how you doing so when my knees went south hey i'm not worried about none of that knee stuff here's that money thank you you had great success um you go to the playoffs you play i think you play lebron twice in your in your three-year run when you made the playoffs, right? I played him one healthy one and then half a hurt one. Okay. And that was kind of like his coming out party because that

series, he just goes off. Yeah. Did you, obviously you were in the league when he got drafted. Did you ever think watching him then that he would be where he is now? Yes. when he got drafted. Did you ever think, watching him then, that he would be where he is now?

Yes. I remember I made a comment to one of my teammates, and I said, this is 2000, things like 2004, 2005 season. I said, he's going to go down as top three greatest of all time and never taps into his real, real ability. As I said, because he doesn't have to. That's how dominant this man is going to be, that he's never going to have to tap into 100% of what is in that body.

Because I watched something that I didn't see. And it came from an 18, 19-year-old kid. As I wrote it on my Instagram where I'm at the house, we're playing cards, and him and Savannah, they're sitting there. You know, you got Richie, you know, all of them. Same crew he has. Same team. Mav, all the same crew. He has the same, same, same team and all the same team.

And he's sitting there just like, just watching sports. Like, I mean, when I say what detail, like watching it, knowing everything, knowing that this, this girl soccer, who's the best player who should should win. Like, it was like a – I'm, like, playing cards but watching. And it was a computer. It was a computer. And then the following year when we was playing them in the playoffs, went over there.

Because, you know, it's chess now. I want to see what's going on. You know, I'm – you know, I'm going to peek under the hood. Y'all playing cards? Let's play some cards. Right. You know, I'm going to peek under the hood. Y'all playing cards? Let's play some cards. Right. You know, they over there breaking down plays. You know, this, that.

You know, got the film. I'm watching our plays. Damn, man. Motherfuckers do everything over here, huh? Man. I can say, okay, I can see what's going on. And I'm watching this man just study, study, study. Understanding. So, what everybody's hearing now i knew then that you know he knows everything that's going on on that court he knows what everyone's supposed to be he knows he knows if the play is

real the play is fake he knows exactly what is expired all through that game. Gil, why do you think it's so hard for the older guard to give this man the credit that he deserves? I mean, you see so many people, well, he's not top 10, or he's not this, and he did this. You know, it's always, no matter what he does, it always goes back to well but he couldn't have played in my generation or he couldn't have done this or everybody's afraid

of LeBron instead of saying the man is great he'd be great in any generation because I don't know how many in the 50s 60s and 70s 6'9 269 pound guys could handle the ball could do what he could do because everyone takes evolution out of it no one wants to believe everyone believed that their era was the golden era like you know if if you go down the line look at rap they don't like the new way true the way before they didn't like that wave that's just you know uh ran max the flex he didn't like the jay-z here like it's just it's just it's the competitiveness of it you know even though it's like well dennis rodman i mean you was a great defensive player you did this but you were you were six seven to ten right, those are point guards now. Yes.

You know, we're bigger, we're stronger, we're faster. You know, that's just how – but, I mean, you're going to have your guys that no matter where you drop them at, you drop Magic Johnson in, he's still a 6'9 point guard that's still not in this era. You know, so you're going to – you still got your Michael Jordan. Right. You know, so you got guys who can go through from older eras into – but there's some guys who shouldn't be talking.

Right. You know, you're 6'4 and you was a sinner. Let that go. Let that dream go. You know, so I just think that they can't accept the fact that no it's a different game but today we're a hundred times more skilled because of rule change because of evolution than you guys were that's just how it is you'd score 54 on the Suns and many believe it was because of the way Mike D'Antoni

treated you on the national team. If I'm not mistaken, he took you off the team. Was that personal? Tell the story. I'm going to be honest with you. Mike D'Antoni didn't do nothing, okay?

Okay. But I couldn't go back to college to talk to Coach Mike. Right. You know, I needed to talk to him. So what ends up happening is when I make the team and I got selected, I called Coach, I think it was 4th of July, told him, wish him a was 4th of July. So I wish them a happy 4th of July. You know, can't wait, you know, to tryouts.

And, you know, whatever you need from me, you know, hey, I'm willing to do. Right. You got to remember, at this time, on this team, there's only three players that's two-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA. Right. That's me, LeBron, and Dwyane Wade. Okay? So, we're trying.

We're going through our thing. Boom, boom, boom. Now, this is the part that irritated the hell out of me. So, they got their starting unit. I'm not in it. That's cool. Okay. I'm cool with that. That's cool. Okay.

I'm cool with that. You know, I can sacrifice for the betterment of the good. But my unit, my team is this. So we can see how this plays. I have Kirk Heinrich as a point. They got me at the two. I have Brad Miller, Antoine, Shane Battier. I think that was it. It was the – it wasn't LeBron.

So the other team is LeBron, Bosh, Dwight Howard, Joe Johnson, Chris Paul. So that's all one unit. We the second unit. Whooping their ass. I'm whooping their ass. Because they got to play a zone. Oh, yeah. So Kirk just give me the ball.

Oh, I eat through all this right here. Because this was like a personal challenge for me. Right. Because this is where I'm trying to like, like I just missed the free throws in LeBron, so I'm on a whole nother wave of mentality anyway. Right. I just came from training in San Francisco

with a black ops guy named Frank. So he done got the mental right. He got the confidence right. And what ends up happening is I'm playing against the best five the world can give me right now. This is the best

five that I'm going to be playing against. And I'm about to put them to the bricks. So we'll go to 21. I got 17. I got 18. Like I'm about to put them to the bricks. So we'll go to 21. I got 17. I got 18. Like, I'm really dominating because I have to. I don't have the scores on my team.

So basically, my whole group is running the offense through me. So Kirk was smart enough. Kirk was like, yo, hey, I'm going to get you. Just do what you do. So we're testing this group. And I remember we're in, what, South Korea. And it's hot in the gym. I'm in there dunking like I'm thinking I'm LeBron James.

The way I was jumping, feeling good. And I remember I'm playing in a game. We play in a game. And he puts me in. And I scored three straight buckets. Pop, pop, pop. Hear the sub. I know he ain't subbing me.

I just got in about two minutes ago. And I hit the tap. Boop, boop, boop. Like, so I run off the court. Cool. All right. Man, that's. It's like, man, you killing, boy.

But, yeah, I'm lighting the way up. We blowing him out. Everybody gets subbed in at the end of the game but me. And I'm sitting here like, yo, did I do something wrong to this man? Like, what's going on? Like, I'm really like, this was like a big, like? Like, what's going on? Like, I'm really like – like, this was like a big, like, yo, what's going on? Like, why am I the only person not in? Like, we – he said to me, like, I played 30 minutes tonight.

Was he trying to save you for something? That's what I'm thinking. So, you know, so I went to Colangelo and was like, yeah, I think I hurt my groin. But I don't want to hold a spot up for Brad Miller or Bruce Boyne. He was one of my – Bruce Boyne. And he hit me with, yeah, you on the bubble getting cut. Cut?

Like, what do you mean cut? Like, I'm top three here. What do you mean cut? So, I was like, all right, they gave top three here. What do you mean cut? So I was like, all right, they gave me my check. I get back on the plane, and I'm hearing the rumors that it was more a shoe issue than it was me personally. Or it was my agent who had Sean Marion, and they were going back. They were negotiating, and that was Phoenix Suns, so that's where Dan Tony came in at.

Right. You know, they were negotiating, and they were taking it out on me. So I got mad, fired my agent, said, man, if you over here burning – I can burn my own bridges. I don't need you to help me burn bridges. So I fired my agent, and then that's when I went on a tangent and said, yo, I'm going to go score 50 against you, and I'm going to go score 50 against you because I can't go back to college

now and get that man 700. You know, and that's how the 54 came. And I remember when I came on the court, he told me, he's like, you're going to have to score more than 50 to beat us. It was on a 16-game winning streak. I said, oh, trust me, I'm planning on it. They already know they ain't getting the ball today. The score can be 50-0.

I'm going to have 50. It can be 50 to 100. I'm going to have all 50 of our points. I'm leaving this building with 50 tonight. So that's how the 54 came about. Yeah. Because I just felt that he was part of the – he didn't do – he was nice as hell to me.

Right. You know, but just he was part of – he was part of the team. Right. You mentioned about the playoff game in which you got fouled and you got two free throws. And LeBron comes by and taps you on the chest and whispers something to you. What did he tell you?

He said, if you miss these free throws, you know who's going to win it. All right, now, what makes it worse is this. So because we gambled at LeBron's house, me, Damon Jones, you know, that was our group. Right. So Damon Jones was horrible. So, Damon Jones was horrible. Horrible. He was horrible.

Horrible at cards. So, he owed me money. So, I always used to say, like, every time we played them, I always used to scream out, the landlord's here. The landlord needs his rent money. Right. Like, every time we came to town, shoot around, I'm yelling it. The game, I'm yelling it.

Like, that's all I yell. So, I told the coach, hey, anytime you put Damon Jones in, I'm going one-four flat. He owes me money. Until he pays me my money, one-four flat. He's going to be a liability out on his court and that's what i did every time he came in one full flat so they wasn't so he stopped playing so he doesn't even play in game six so when he when he whispers you know who's gonna hit it everybody assumed it was him i knew

what he was talking about and i think the thought went into my head of, they really going to put Damon Jones in. And let him hit a shot. And I just missed. Like, I was balling that game. Just hit the three to get us in overtime. Playing great in overtime. Very great battle.

And then I see Damon Jones in there stretching. And they really put the man in. And the fact that LeBron even passed him the ball is what hurt the most. Like, you were really that petty where you would actually

give that man the ball. Who does that? That's what I said. That's what I said. I went to go do mental stuff. With the mental training. I was like,

this didn't just happen. You didn't tell me this man was going to come in and hit. Then he comes in and you pass him the ball. He's done hit five straight threes i need to go season hill because i don't want to be the next uh nick anderson out here you mentioned the card playing what is it about nba players playing cards and what was the game that you and a lot of the NBA players play?

You know, just like any card game, it's passed on from whoever started it. Right. You know, like I remember when I first came in. I think Jordan's a guts guy. Guts? We played Boo Ray. Boo Ray. Yeah, we played bourree so lucky for me i was never on a team that played real high stakes bourree okay like you know when i first came in i'm playing you know twenty dollars

a hand bourree right you know so it wasn't really like you lose four thousand dollars bro you you had a heart attack right because i remember i won i remember i won 300 what what 300 yeah well you gotta remember when you done spent all your money on an escalade trunk and some jewelry when you first get drafted and then you go the 31 pick you done spent all that so 300 is everything right now on the road. You know, so – and then when I went to Washington, you got to remember, it's a young team. So the card players there was – it was Larry Hughes, Stackhouse, and Christian Lake.

Because Stackhouse played with Jordan. Stackhouse was a Stackhouse. Yeah. So what were you guys so you guys were playing Bure. Yeah, we was playing we was playing Bure. But it wasn't I remember like I knew it was one it was one thing like that happened. And I was like, you know what, I'm never gonna play this game for that kind of money no more okay what happened so Stackhouse like Stackhouse I owe Stackhouse three thousand dollars

and he said you know what you know you new here i'm gonna go ahead and get your discount man two thousand you only got to pay me two like all right cool he's like i know you got the money you know but you know two thousand right cool yes sir nice, my man. $1,000 discount. Welcome to the team. I ended up beating him. He owed me $12,000. He said, hey, man, you know, you're going to give me that discount? I called $1,000, you know.

You can go ahead and pay me $11,000. This man said $2,000. $2,000. dollars so right so I'm looking around like how much oh you want me to take off two thousand okay I'm gonna be you two thousand huh is it but where you you huh as I don't even know better they don't even equal he said I gave you a $2,000. Huh? I said, but wait, you'll, you'll, huh? I said, they don't even know, they don't even equal. He said, I gave you a discount, right? I said, yeah, you took off $1,000. And he said, are you going to take this $2,000 or not?

Like, so I look around, right? And I'm getting up, take that money, you better take that money. And I'm looking like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, discount, discount. But see, no, no, no, no, no. See, see? That's what happens. You know, money out of sight calls a fight. Because, no, no, no.

If I give you a discount, the discount is what I say it is. You don't set the discount. I can't go into the store and tell the people, well, I want 40% off this. They said it. Okay, it's 20%. It's 30%. It might be 60%. But the customer don't set the

discount. The store Hey, your muscles tell you that. My muscles told me, just take this $2,000 and shut the hell up. All right? That's what my muscles told me to do. $2,000 and shut the hell up. All right?

That's what my muscles told me to do. Because, Gil, what we play, I know you heard of it, called in between. And so we play, some people play with one deck, some people play with two decks. Three decks. But we always play with two decks. And so, you know, obviously you flip the card. So if you get an ace, you say, you know, high or low, and then whatever the next card is.

So we're going to the Super Bowl. You know, we got Super Bowl tickets. Everybody come down with money because we're going to be gone for a week. Yeah. You know, we going around and the pot's climbing. So now there's like 15 grand in the pot. So we come, okay, it's an ace, ace high. He said, oh, high.

And then another one come. So it's automatic low because you can't have high, so it's automatically low. So now, man, it's 12 grand in the pot. He said pot it. An ace come. So now you got to double the pot. So whatever's in the pot, he got to put 24 grand in there.

Yeah. Well, he don't have 24 grand cash, but he got a boatload of Super Bowl tickets. So, you know, you know me, the banker, the kid, the banker. I'm like, okay. He's like, man, I only got like 15 grand cash. I said, you got Super Bowl tickets. So I'm putting them Super like man I only got I only got like 15 grand cash I said you got Super Bowl tickets so put them Super Bowl tickets in there he's like he's looking at me like I'm like I don't know what to tell you I say but you owe $24,000 to that pot so you need to come up with $24,000

so the way we look at it we'll take 15 grand and six Super Bowl tickets so now Gil so the pots now is 36 basically 30 36 thousand dollars in you know Super Bowl tickets nobody wants everybody going around it's king three it's king three nobody ain't nobody saying I was like man so it comes to me I got a king and then I got a five. I like my homeboy, Keith Burns. We going out to Super Bowl, Super Bowl 33. I like who I said, homeboy, we need the homeboy. Don't touch. I said, we need to get this money homeboy.

I say, look, I got 50. I said, I got 50 grand on me. I got 50 on me. I said, what are we going to do? It's king five. It's king five. As long as it don't come another king, it don't come another five, an ace, we good.

We had to pot that thing. We had to pot it. But it came close. It was a six. So I was in the middle. That's how close it came. So I know how them games can get out of hand, but I also know money can cause a fight because we roll dice too.

And, bro, but I also know money can cause a fight because we roll dice, too. Mm-hmm. And, bro, but let me tell you, I was generous like you. I did beat a guy out of a car. I took a car. He had an old school 70 Chevelle. He had it fixed up. I said, I'll tell you what I do because I know you can't go home and tell your wife you lost this car.

You're going to get divorced, and it's going to cost you more than the car. Give me $2,500. We'll call it even. Because for me, Gil, it wasn't about the money. I wanted your pride. And a lot of times the way I gamble is that if I want money off you, I want it in coins. So go get me $5,000 in dimes.

Go get me $2,500 in quarters. So when you go to the cashier, they ask you, well, why do you need this? I lost a bet, Shannon Shaw. That's what I wanted. I lost a fat bet once. I had to get $15,000 in Susan B. Anthony's. That was heavy

as heck, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know what's so funny? That's usually why fights start. Yeah. It's never really about the money. It's the talking. It's the embarrassment.

Yeah. It's just the whole atmosphere of how someone lost. And they keep rubbing it in. Because you lose it already. And then they talk about, shut up. Yeah. And that's how I got in trouble. Because I wouldn't shut up.

I'm just going. So what actually transpired between you and Jarvis, was this about a gambling debt or what transpired? So me and Javaris, like how me and Nick are, we were here. You know, go over plays. He was, you know, one of the young guys who was trying to figure out how to stay in the league. Right.

So, you know, on the road, he's always in my room ordering food. We go through plays. We watch the game. He was my hangout buddy. So they're gambling. I'm talking shit. You got to remember, it's Javaris, it's JaVale, it's Earl Boykins. Right.

They ain't no money on the table. So, you know, this ain't no – This ain't no house. You know, this ain't no – If they lose $2,000, one of them is mad. That's the type of, you know. So it's probably about 30 minutes left on the plane. And I decided, you know what?

I want to play. You know, I want to play. Okay. So it's Javaris. So JaVale just booed Javaris. So Javaris had to mash the pot. Correct. Now it's Javaris' turn.

Javaris gets booed on his team. Wow. Like, he flips over two clubs. So it's clubs. Yep. And then everybody goes around, them two, and then he yells out, I need four. Oh, oh, oh.

That don't sound good. He gets booed. Right? You got to match it again. So now because I'm next, if I decide to play, so the rule was if you want to jump into the game, you have to match the pot no matter what. Correct.

Whatever the pot is. So I'm like, well, what's in there? That's what they look about 1100. I got about 1100 in the pocket. Throw my 11. He pissed off now. Oh, why he playing? Right.

Because now it makes it harder for him to play. So I'm in there talking shit, yeah, boy. I said, hey, the legs is open. You got in because you're the dealer now. I'm the dealer now. So I automatically get it. You get it. I'm like, shit, I want the legs is open.

I want some of it too. So I'm passing it. Earl. Earl says, so I want them legs as open. I want some of it too. So I'm passing it. Earl. Earl says, so I flip over like a nine. Earl don't want no parts of it because I guess he peeked at JaVale's hand because JaVale did one of those woo-hoo. Like woo-hoo. Like woo-hoo.

Like woo-hoo. He got a smoker. He got a smoker. Yeah, so I'm like, how many you need? He said, I don't need none. None. Damn, none. All right, how many you need?

Hold on, hold on. You got to explain to him what do you need, because you can go. Explain to him. So with Bure, it's kind of like it's spades. Spades, but individual spades. You ain't got no partner you your own partner yeah so whatever card the dealer flips over that's actually the cut card that's spades yeah so then it becomes yeah so so basically he was basically saying he either has four spades so

good my hand so good i don't want to exchange nothing yeah he don't want to change so basically he probably had four spades and an ace or a king. Right. Or he got all five spades. Or he got five spades. Right. So Javaris says, I need five. Oh, so me being like, oh, this man is about to get booed.

Boo this man. Right? So now I'm just talking shit. Just boo this man. Like, oh, he's about to be booed. Like, because it's not my turn yet. I'm like, man, you sure you won't fight? You won't fight?

Oh, he needs all five. So now I'm just being an asshole. Right? In the same time, Earl Borges tells JaVale, hey, man, let me go ahead and get my $200. And JaVale's like, hold on. After this hand, let me finish this hand first. You know, we always wait until the plane ain't anywhere. And then JaVale just snaps.

Man, get that man his $200. Man, you got my money over there. Why you holding? You got all my money. And I'm like, yo, man his $200. Man, you got my money over there. Why you holding? You got all my money. And I'm like, yo, calm down, bro. That ain't got nothing to do with you. That ain't got nothing to do with you. Don't worry about what they doing.

Don't worry about you taking your five. Because I'm pretty sure there's going to be some more money in the pot anyway. Yes. Right? So now it's my turn. Right? I'm like, okay. All I need is two. So I throw them two and I got three because I got three

spades. Right. And he's just going. Just going. Just because now he probably looked at his hand and realized he ain't got one spade. So he's just, I mean, he's going. And I'm like, you know what? If you get booed, the money is in the pot anyway.

There ain't no sense of both of us getting booed. You feel me? Might as well go ahead and let you be booed by yourself, bro. And so what I did is I showed him. I said, listen, I got three spades. I'm out of here. Oh, he flipped over his hand. That's a misdeal.

You know misdeal. I'm not playing. I'm out of here. So I'm going to leave. You boo him. I'm going to leave. You boo him. I'm going to go ahead and get up. Let me know when it's my turn to play again. Right?

And he's just like, you can hear them arguing. Nah, bro. Nah, bro. I ain't going out like that. He ain't going to just let me lose my money like that. He just can't come in here and double the pot and then leave and don't even fight. Help me fight for the pot and make at least a 2-2-1.

So Earl was like, yo, there ain't no 2-2-1. I can tell you that for sure. That man got ace, king. He got ace, king, queen, jack over that mother right there. And I'm hearing it. Ooh, he in trouble. I'm glad I got up out of there. Yeah, so JaVale said, you know what?

Listen, the money's mine. I had five spades I was gonna boo you again I'm gonna let you not get booed and I'm just gonna take the money oh hell no he wasn't even having that hell no that's a good deal though

if he get booed he's gonna have to double the pot after you just doubled it. So he got to put $4,400 in there. Then if he going to get booed, then he want to get booed with somebody. So he's more mad that I didn't help him fight for his money. So then he started talking trash. I started talking trash. So it wasn't really like we was going at it. It was just he was irritated that he was losing

and then irritated that I came and doubled the pot and then bounced on him and then left him for dead. But did you know his background and what he was capable of? No, like, then he's not capable of, you know, what he's accused of, like what he's in jail for. Then, no, he wasn't – no. Well, he changed once he got out the league.

Circumstances forced him to change. Right. Survival. Like, you know, like when people – like I remember when everything broke down and he got in trouble and the DA going against him hit me up for a character reference against him and I said it I said wait hold on I know we had an issue and it was this big public thing but character issue I'm not going to be a great witness for you because that that was my teammate and he was an amazing guy right yeah we had an issue that got blown out of proportion but i'm not going to go and say this is what he was capable of this is who he was because that wasn't him how his life

went after he got kicked out of the league his uh family's stealing his money and he had to to to gravitate to something else that's not the guy i know right i know the hoop guy who watched film with me the the jabar is that you were trying to have me go again i don't know that one that i can't say that was his character i i can say circumstances of financial, someone robbed him for his jewelry, everything spiraling down. That's a whole nother person. Right. I cannot talk about that person on the person I know.

I can't do it for you. So after that, after that, the gambling incident, did you guys speak? Were you guys still friends, friendly? Or because you both were suspended, so how did it end after that? See, even before that, I remember I get a text, and he said, yo, G.A., this is J.C. You know, I need a favor. And I know, you know, I can't even go to nobody else. And I know you don't hold grudges like that.

You know, my mom needs surgery. Is there any way you can let me borrow, you know, $60,000? I said, man, of course. How many thousand? $60,000. Hold on. You said six or six and a zero after it? $60,000.

$60,000. Six feet. Six feet. She was having neck surgery. She needed neck surgery. And then I'm probably – he probably needed some change since he lost his contract. Right. So I said, okay, wire it. Gave me the wire information.

Sent it off to him. And this is before I even went through my trial. Like, he already got off. He already got slapped on – you know, a little slap on the hand. Yeah. And this is after he said, I'm scared for my life he was coming in he was gonna kill me that already doesn't happen and i'm he's but you know i'm not gonna hold a grudge bro i know you gotta do what you gotta do to survive right you know so i wrote him a check and to this day we still in communications he He pay you back?

No. It wasn't – it wasn't – like, when I let a teammate – like, when a teammate asked me for something, it was never to pay me back. You know what? Now that you mention it, I don't think any of my teammates have ever paid me back on a debt. It was just – it was like, you know, if I have it, you know, like, I'm going to do something stupid with it anyway. So, if you got a better purpose for it, you know, if I have it, you know, like I'm going to do something stupid with it anyway. So if you got a better purpose for it, you know, your mom's neck,

that's all right with me. Yeah. Now that you mentioned it, I was thinking about that. I was like, hell, any of my teammates ever pay me money back? Nah. Teammates and family members don't pay money back. I don't pay money back. So, yeah, you're right about that.

So I ask you to look back and say okay anything you would change obviously you would like to not have a knee injury and i had a a longer career because you felt you were in your prime you had just became the the the agent zero the gilbert arenas that you know what this is the guy I always knew I could be. And then you have the knee, like you said, you had three surgeries in 14 months. When you sit back and you watch, do you think what your career could have been had you not had any injury? You could have been a Hall of Famer, maybe won a championship.

When you do that, when you play the what if game, you can never move on in life. Like, so I try not to do the what-if game. Like, how I was playing, how I was moving, I knew what I would have been. Right. So there's no point of asking a question. Like, I remember someone asked me,

they was like, who's better, you or Dane? And I say, at what age? At the age of 25? By the age of 25, him, Curry, they couldn't see me. After 25, I can't touch them boys. I didn't have a career after that. So, you know,

I cannot touch, up until that age, I cannot touch them boys. So, it was like, yo, can you guard them? No. Like, I didn't have to deal with players like that. You know, so, like, you know, I stayed true to, you know, who I am and don't try to, like, oh, yeah, I would have killed everybody.

Like – It was a different league then. David Stern, he suspended for a Javaris incident. You got suspended for the rest of the season, right? Yeah, we got suspended for – here's the trick. Here's the trick. We didn't get suspended for guns because guns in the locker room no one no one saw me touch a gun right so they couldn't suspend me for a gun it would have been one game right and i would argue that like hold on y'all

didn't see me i told y'all that those were mine i didn't tell you I put them in there. I didn't tell you I brung them there. I just said those were mine. So legally, no one can do nothing to me. I'm just honest and said, yo, they're mine. I was giving them to him. So when they realized that, they didn't suspend me for guns. They suspended me for detrimental to the team. Conduct detrimental. Which was because of what I did in Philadelphia.

When I was mocking him with the pistol hands. So I got suspended for that. 50 games, which was detrimental because they can hold that as long as they want. Right. And then didn't D.C. step in with the gun incident? Who? D.C. Yeah, they still

did their case and they gave me 30 days probation. 30 days halfway house. Halfway house. And you got in trouble with that, Gil? What do you mean? So, no. What was the halfway

house like? Halfway house? You make sense of what that is. So, halfway house, you know, listen. I was not doing a halfway house in D.C. Okay. I did the halfway house in Virginia.

Okay. It was either Virginia or find me. Right. Because I am not doing D.C., whatever this case was, by my house or I'm going to be at my house. Pick one. So, they gave me 30 days. Buy my house or I'm going to be at my house. Pick one. So they gave me 30 days in the halfway house. So I had to do a weekend first in jail.

So mine didn't have no jail time. So there was no jail, just halfway house. But the halfway house I was going to said you had to do three days a weekend in jail. So this is the funniest shit ever. So you know how, like, three days? That's it? How bad could I do that? So all I know is jail from TV.

So I'm doing push-ups and everything. I'm like, yeah, I'm about to get buff on these boys just in case they try to try me in there. Just in case they try to try me, I'm going to be all big and strong. So I'm thinking there's going to be some criminals. It was old men

for ticket violations, drunk driving, stuff like that. So after they... So that was a friday saturday like oh man this is walking with my chest high right and then something told me to look out that window so look out the window it was like a little basketball court little basketball court so i'm like oh so it was just i mean big dude i mean be like i ain't like oh he ate weights he ate and he's on a court right and he was so strong he was so strong that he couldn't put his hands down so his hands said like this yeah so he's throwing a ball like just boom and it's not it's hitting the backboard like boom boom and i'm sitting there like yo this what what is he what is this and like he's just

picking the ball up and he's like trying to shoot it but he's just throwing it at the backboard and i'm laughing and he looked he looked at me while i was laughing bro i dropped to the ground so fast under the under that glass bro like soon as he looked at me i'm out and dropped boom man i said it for two hours like nah nah just in case he did i know he's there looking. I am not giving up. No more. Did anybody recognize you while you were there? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You started autographs in the halfway house, huh? No, when I got – yeah, when I was in the halfway house,

it was like – like it was special rules. Yeah. Because I went in there pre-Madonna. I'm not even going to lie. And I said, hey, listen all i don't do roommates and i got bad sleeping habits like you know i sleep i wake up at 3 a.m and do all this and you know the way the way this room is structured and i like to watch tv at a certain time it's going to irritate the roommate then he gonna want to fight you know You do realize you're in a halfway house. You do realize it's a halfway house, not Gil's house. No, no, no, no, no.

But my complaint was, like, it was legit. So they gave me my own room, and then they put a rule in that you can only keep, like, $24 on them. So this is what I got. So I got, I got, what do they call it? When you get a, I got on lockdown for like 10 days.

Oh, you had fallacy, huh? Yeah, I got, so what ended up happening is I was smart enough to understand that the change machine guy put the change in at 4 a.m. Right. So I'll go in there and then put $20, take all the – I'll put all the quarters out.

No one got no change. So I took all the change, and I would charge everybody 75 cents for a dollar. So I'm giving them 75 cents for a dollar so they're getting charged so I'm papered up so in other words you hustling if they want to snatch from the vending machine they got to come through me

they got to come through the quarter man so I'm hustling so what ends up happening is I get caught with like $220. And they put me on lockdown. Did they take the money? Oh, yeah, they took the money.

They took the money. They took the money, put me on lockdown, and I had to spend 10 days in my room. So let's talk about your classic battle, because your greatest scoring game in your career happened against Kobe, one of the fiercest competitors, one of the greatest offensive players, one of the greatest defensive players. What was your mindset going into that game?

Because a lot of times you hear people say, well, man, that's my idol. I grew up watching him. I just want to make sure he doesn't embarrass me. Well, you know, before the 60 game, my highest average was against the

Lakers. It was already sitting at about 33, 34. Right. Because I knew what it took to be successful against the lakers and kobe you gotta remember that's a that's my idol team growing up right you know you know i watch kobe i know his mannerisms i know he's playing chess out there not checkers so So I remember Luke Walton said, yo, Kobe gonna shut you down tonight. But he said this every game.

Kobe said he gonna shut you down tonight. And I was like, well, you tell him if he even think about guarding me, one for a flat. Because you and Luke were teammates, right? Yeah, me and Luke was teammates. So Luke just used to hype the shit up too. So before that game, Luke said it.

And I remember I'm sitting on the side way like i already worked out kobe's on a second workout and he ain't missing like hey man kill him bro i feel sorry for whoever got a guard in the night right that's me pre-game you know watching him work out right and game starts and he does it. Hey, Smush, you go get Deshaun. I'm going to shut down Gilbert. And, yeah. And I said, hey, those first two plays, Coach called, cancel those. If Kobe's guarding me, one for a flat.

Right? So, the way we tipped the ball, he wasn't guarding me. Smush had to, you know, Smush got on me. I'm scoring then eventually eventually he tells smush off i got him so soon as i hit like three in a row on cold phil jackson yells cold stop stop stop stop playing do the road do the do the line of i said due to the lineup I said you got to shine boom boom boom once Kobe switched off game was over

because Phil didn't realize these chess moves he done interrupted Kobe's chess move so the fact that he was forced to switch off put my mind in a whole different element I'm on fire tonight.

It's on. So when he comes back, he ain't going to be able to stop me. Right. So he don't let you catch a rhythm. Now it's over. Yeah. And that's what happened. It's not about, like I tell people, it's not about hitting shots per se.

It's not backing down from a challenge. So when people ask me, what was your best game? I say the second game that year against Kobe. Because that second year, the second game is, he said he's stopping me. I'm on his radar. He's stopping me. That means the demon is coming in. He is coming to stop me.

Right. I got to compete. No matter what. Like the team is trying to stop me. He's personally trying to stop me. I end up scoring 37. That 37 was a hundred points when the guy is there to actually shut you down. Do NBA players go into the game if they know, say, KD is playing LeBron?

Do they go into the game and say, I got to get 40 because he's probably going to get 40? How do NBA players approach it? I can tell you how I approach it. How did you approach it? You're going against Kobe. You're going against T-Mac. You're going against one of these other prolific scorers.

I'm attacking. Like, I, you know, we're in the wild. I'm not a cage lion. I'm a wild lion. So, I'm out there hunting. You know what I mean? I'm out there hunting

and I'm trying to, like, if you're the shooting guard and this point guard needs to get you the ball, I need to destroy his confidence now. You know, so, like, somebody like Dame Lillard Curry, my defense was trying to get them – I'm trying to get them on the bench with two fouls. And they get to watch me eat.

You know, and that's the way i played so i was in attack mode from the beginning i didn't i you know i wasn't i wasn't probing i wasn't trying to feel let's fill this game out no i know how the game is is i know how it feels i know i know how it feels who's the best real uncomfortable around here who's the best player in the NBA? I feel real uncomfortable around here. Who's the best player in the NBA right now? Best player? Yes. It's either LeBron or KD.

Why? You didn't mention Giannis. Giannis is two-time MVP. I mean, just because you won the MVP don't make you the best player. It means you was on the best team and you was the best player on the best team. The way the analysts do it,

it ain't got nothing to do with who the best player in the NBA is. It's who was on the best team who did all that. That's, you know, so right now... KD or LeBron for you. Huh? KD or LeBron for you. Huh? KD or LeBron for you. Cool. With the first pick?

Yes. Shit. You get one. I'm saying, you get one player. You start your team with one player right now. Okay, but I'm starting a team with one player, then I go LeBron. Why?

Because with LeBron, because he is a one, two, three, four, whatever, I can draft anybody around him. You know, I used to tell people that if you have Kobe,

it's hard to have a LeBron. If you have LeBron, it's easy to get Kobe. Because Kobe won't sacrifice to LeBron. LeBron will sacrifice to bring Kobe on board. You know, so

I'll take LeBron because from there, it's easier to build a team. When you take any other player, you have to build it around that player. I don't have to build a team around LeBron. I have LeBron and then bring in who I want and then let him fix that meal. Gale, I appreciate your time, bro. I owe you.

I know you're busy. You took time out to give me a couple hours today. I appreciate your time, bro. I owe you. I know you're busy. You took time out to give me a couple hours today. I really appreciate it, bro. No problem. Thank you for having me. Hey, tell Nate, don't you let Nate get back in that ring. Don't you do that, Gale. If you his friend, that's your boy.

You don't let him take another one. All right, I got you. All right, bro. Appreciate it. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, I got you. All right, bro, appreciate it. I'm rolling dice. This is why all my life I've been grinding all my life. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news

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