Club Shay Shay - Jamal Crawford

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

On episode 26, Shannon welcomes in 3-time NBA Sixth Man of the Year, league leader in 4-point plays, & the oldest player in NBA history to score 50 points in a game: Jamal Crawford. Jamal Crawford updates Shannon on his current status, working for an opportunity to return to the NBA. He shares stories and insights from his 20 seasons in the league, where he faced players like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and more. He talks about playing for the Knicks and the Clippers, including LA’s failure to make it to the NBA Finals.   As a quintessential NBA Sixth Man and journeyman, Jamal talks Shannon through the specific role he had to play for various teams. He also discusses his infamous dribbling skills, ranks the best ball handlers in league history, and gives Shannon his Mount Rushmore of Sixth Men. Raised in Seattle’s active basketball community with decades of experience at the highest level, Jamal Crawford has a true passion and knowledge for the game. Don’t miss this enlightening conversation, where Jamal breaks it all down, from the beginning of his career to the present day.*Click below to vote for Club Shay Shay in the 13th annual Shorty Awards!*https://shortyawards.com/13th/club-shay-shay#DoSomethinB4TwoSomethin & Follow Club Shay Shay:                                                                 https://www.instagram.com/clubshayshayhttps://twitter.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.facebook.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.youtube.com/c/clubshayshay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolf. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New from Embedded. Who gets to compete as a woman? This question came up in ugly form at the Paris Olympics.

But it's not new. If she runs like a man and talks like a man, is she a man? not new. If she runs like a man and talks like a man, is she a man? Hear about the long history of sex testing women athletes on Tested, a new series from CBC and NPR's Embedded podcast. Listen to all episodes on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, guys. I've got great news. I'm a finalist for a Shorty Award. Make sure you click the link to go vote for your boy and make sure I bring this award home. Thank you. Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for making Club Che Che a success. of Club Che Che and the guy that's stopping by for a drink and conversation today is three-time NBA sixth man of the year. He's the all-time leader in four-point plays. He's the only man to drop 50 with four different teams and he's the oldest player in NBA history to score 50 points in a ball game, Jamal Crawford. hustle paid the price won a slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life i've been grinding

all my life all my life been grinding all my life sacrifice hustle paid the price won a slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life i've been grinding all my life jamal how you doing i'm good thanks for having me how you doing i'm good I'm good. Thanks for having me. How you doing? I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for stopping by. So what are you currently doing? Remote schooling is getting most of my attention to start. You know, I got three younger kids in the house, and my schedule is based around them. So, you know, once they get settled and get everything going,

me and my wife split it up, and then I get to work it out. And then just doing my thing I do in the community. So, and still watching some ball, but you know, those are my main focuses right now. So are you done with ball or would you like to get an opportunity to come back and play? Yeah, I would love to get an opportunity to come back and play. You know, I'm working like a, you know, opportunity is there and if it doesn't happen, I'm doing it for me anyway.

Just love of the game, you know, and you know, nothing can replace that feeling. I think I can still help to be honest with you, but you, vets are having a tough time getting back in right now. So I'm trying to be patient and look at the glasses half full. So even after 20 years, you've played 20 seasons, you've accomplished probably more than you thought you would at this point. And you still want more. You still have that hunger.

You still have that drive to say, you know what? I can still help a team. Absolutely. I will be playing whenever it's official. I i'll be playing after that i'll be at la fitness or a 24-hour fitness around you so i'll definitely be playing somewhere just loving the game that's the only thing it's about for me at this point so you want to continue to play so only for a contender or you just want to get back in the league to play to show you still can or does it need to be for the contender no i would love to play for a contender but obviously you know it's not always about the destination sometimes it's the journey and i went through it in phoenix

having a younger squad and seeing guys like devin booker deandre eight and michelle bridges and really you know really being there for those guys guys like tj warren and seeing that they you know have that vet in the locker room, things they may not have known, things they can learn, things they can carry for the foundation of their career. I had the same thing when I was playing with Scottie Pippen or Charles Oakley. I didn't learn how to be a pro until I had pros around me

and those vets around me. Learning that being on time is being early as a young player and staying late. So if you can build those good habits for a younger team as well, you know, I'm all for it. So what is the age that Jamal will officially retire or is there an age or you just like, you know what? Because it seems to me you still have the passion and you said,

even after you're done, you're still going to play. So what's the, the end point? What's the, what's the time that you says, okay, I'm done with NBA basketball. I still might play at lifetime or 24 hour wherever okay, I'm done with NBA basketball. I still might play at lifetime or 24 hour, wherever, but I'm done with the NBA. I'm not sure to be honest with you. I think last year I was getting to that point, you know, and seeing how things are going with mellow and that just broke my heart.

And then, you know, it was a lot of people that kind of wanted to see him out the league, you know, and said he was too old or he wasn't this or that, but he reinvented himself. He stayed patient. And when I was losing my faith, I really restored it. And then getting a call from Brooklyn, you know, going through those practices and playing that one game, it basically solidified what I already knew I could do on the court.

It just needed the opportunity. You know, it didn't last long, unfortunately. But for me, I think after this year, I have to revisit it and kind of see where we're at. And if nothing happens, then kind of make that decision then. You mentioned Melo reinventing himself, but the thing that you've always done, Jamal, you were willing, you've always accepted your role.

You're like, okay, I'm going to come off the bench. I'm fine with that. I don't think Melo in the beginning accepted that role that teams wanted him to come off the bench. And he saw himself as Nuggets, Knicks Melo, but that's not how teams needed him. They didn't need a Knicks or a Nuggets mellow. And you've mentioned he reinvented himself.

It wasn't until he accepted the role. I'm coming off the bench. I'm going to get shots. I'm going to have to be more of a catch and shoot guy. I'm not going to get the post-ups that I normally get is that we finally start to see he can actually help a team. He can definitely help a team in the situation, especially like with OKC. You know, I think that's where it kind of started, you know, as far as like, you know, can we use him this way? Is he open to different things?

And if you look, if you go back and look, that was probably the least amount he actually had the ball. So I think he bought in there. And then when he went to Houston, you know, they don't like mid-range shots. It was more threes or less mellow strength, you know, being a bully in the mid post area. Right. I think he was open to it. He didn't look good in that situation.

And, you know, knowing him a little bit, I know that he was willing to do whatever, if they just straight shooters, have a conversation with him. And then when he gets this situation in Portland, that fits into a T, they need him. They, he embraced it. He said, you know what? I trust you guys. I know you're going to do right by me in my career and what I've accomplished. So I have no problem being a sixth man and coming off.

And he probably just looks at himself as a sixth starter. You know, when he gets out there, especially with CJ being out recently, he's had some huge games. He's had some games that obviously Dame has scored 50 and went crazy. But Mellows has some games that have really kind of helped them get over that hump where they need that additional score. So I'm so happy for him. Because if you really look at it, he's really their only post-up player.

They don't have a big they can dump the ball down to in the post and say, go get me a bucket. Mello is that guy. You know, Dame is spectacular. He is. He's a little small to be posting up. That's really not CJ's game. Cantor is really not a post player. So if you look at it, Mello is really their only post-up guy.

Yeah, it's a perfect situation for him. They've really embraced him. I don't think they've used what he did to do well against him. They didn't try to hold that against him and I think he's been able to flourish. I think he's fresh mentally. I even see him dunking now, even if it's just a warm-up. He's going to double pump backwards dunk. I said, he's in a good place

to be. So, how does, because clearly you could to be good placement. So how does, because clearly you could have been a starter. How were you? So why, why were you so willing to embrace? Okay. This is the role they see me in.

Let me embrace this, get the job done. And you, you arguably the greatest man in NBA history. Why were you so willing to embrace that role when you can drop 50 on a given night and knowing that you're good enough to be a starter? To be honest with you, I got to a point in my career that I was tired of losing. You know, I was at year 10. I'd average, I think, 20 points accumulatively for three straight years. And I didn't want to be that guy who's

a good player on bad teams. Yeah, he's a good player, but he's just putting up numbers on bad teams. I didn't want to be that guy. I've always won ever since I was a kid. I won when I was in high school, won a championship, won in college. The games I played, I didn't want to be that guy. And at that time, they kind of put you in a box. You know what I mean? Like, he's that guy. So I said, you know what?

I'll do whatever it takes. I got traded to Atlanta. I remember meeting with Rick's son, their president. He was like, you know what? We just went to the playoffs. We have our starting five in place. But you can still have a huge role for us coming off the bench. And I was like, you know what? we just went to the playoffs. We have our starting five in place. But you can still have a huge role for us coming off the bench. And I was like, you know what, I'm confident enough in myself

and I'm all about the team. Whatever you guys want, I'll do it. And so I didn't know that the second half of my career, that would kind of take on a life of its own. It's cool to go to camps and be in gyms with the kids, especially that look like me coming from my communities. They're like, you know what, it's not always about starting. It's cool to be a sixth man.

You know, because they had the Jenobleys and they had the Jason Terrys. But for whatever reason, it really resonated with them when I did it. You know, and I think that's really cool and I'm happy with the way it's turned out. Did you ever go to a situation you're like, but the guy that's

starting, I'm better than him. He should be coming off the bench. I should be starting. I never had that, to be honest with you. I just always said, you know what? There's a role for all of us. There's big me's and little you's. Even as a sixth man, my teammates, the coaches, they treated me like a starter. They treated me with that same respect. So I never looked at it like

that. I had to trick myself when I first did it because I had never come off the bench up to that point. So I said, you know what? Mentally, I said, okay, Superman's coming again. They're just getting warmed up for Superman. So I would do things like that to kind of trick myself and give myself that edge coming into the game. I never looked at it like that.

I always looked at it like, you know what? I'm providing all the great teams. Had a sixth man from Ginoli to Pierce, Ricky Pierce, to Kevin McHale back in the day. Andy Johnson. Microwave, right? So all those guys, Jason Terry with Dallas. I said, okay, you know, all those microwave, right? So all those guys, Jason Terry with Dallas. I said, okay, you know what? All these elite

level teams have a guy that brings that punch off the bench and I have no problem doing that. When I was, when I played, I wasn't the starter, but I felt that I wasn't the start at first and then I worked my way to the starting lineup, but I felt coming off the bench. It gave me a sense

of the game. I got a feel of exactly what bench, it gave me a sense of the game. I got a feel of exactly what I needed to do once I got into the game. Is that how you looked at it? Because you got a feel. You're coming in at about six, seven minutes into the ball game. You get a sense of the flow. You get a sense of how the refs are calling the game, what exactly you need to do in order to help your team win on that given night.

You nailed it. That's exactly what I was doing. I'm telling Chris or Joe Johnson at the time in Atlanta, like, oh, okay, when you play pick and roll, they're forcing to your left, and then the second guy is going to rotate. So I'm giving them things to look at it and knowing when I get in the game, I don't have to go through that because I'm watching them go through it. Right? At the time, I see that I'm the primary scorer.

I know the defense is going to shift me when I come in the game. They know what I'm coming in the game to do. So I'm watching how they're playing different things, who I should put in pick and roll, who do I want to get a shot, how they is going to shift me when i come in the game they know what i'm coming in the game to do so i'm watching how they're playing different things who i should put in pick and roll who do i want to get a shot how they're going to do it oh they're trapping the second rotation this time okay so i'm watching all these things and downloading it so i know when i come in the game i hit the gallon and my coaches and teammates i think it gave them a comfort as well because starters you know you may get off to a slow start sometimes you're looking for that bench to come give you that oomph that night when you're in your fourth game to five

nights in milwaukee or denver or wherever it might be to kind of get things back rolling get over the hump how do you maintain your confidence because you're you know you're you're coming off the bench and your job is to light it up and all of a sudden that light that that particular night you don't have it how do you maintain confidence for the next night and the next night because you have a specific role your role is to give us buckets off the beach and you know what the other teams know that's my specific role too so they're trying to stop that right so for me i just i think work ethic eliminates fear i've always been a student i've never been a know it all i've always been a guy trying to learn you know i don't care who it was from you know

person on the street a person who's worth I've always been a guy trying to learn. You know, I don't care who it was from. You know, a person on the street or a person who's worth a billion dollars. I'm always trying to learn, educate myself. I did the same thing with basketball. I watched a lot of film, watched a lot of tape, see how I can be better. And so, for me, I was always playing the game within the game and not just looking at the surface level stuff, but digging deeper to see how I can be effective for my team. And it worked out for me.

When do you know that you got it going on a particular night? Is it is it a feel? Is it like the first two or three shots going in? When do you know? It's like, you know what y'all in trouble tonight. And if I you know, it's funny if I hit the first two shots, if I get the first shot. Oh, it's over. I'm not like

Hey, bring the band out. Bring it's party time now hey i'm telling me and now with social media everything's being documented in real time so i know if i do a crazy move in a shot it's like i feel like i'm a monster i just get bigger and bigger and bigger on the court right you know so for me that first shot i could my highest scoring game my career i scored 52 against the heat right i missed my first four shots, but they felt good. Man, they feel good. From that point on to the third quarter, in the first quarter of the third quarter, I didn't miss a shot. I hit 16

straight shots down the court, but I felt it even when I was over four. You know what I mean? So it's just funny. Sometimes players may feel it, but they don't get the opportunity to get to the rest of the game. They may come out on a short leash. You just never know how things go. But for me, I can tell when that first make goes in, I'm like, oh, this is going to be a long night for me.

It's funny that you say that, that your best night you had scoring-wise, you missed your first four shots. Me, I just needed to catch the ball. Sometimes I just caught the ball and went down because in my mind, I don't want that to creep in on Shannon. You dropped it. You dropped it. They know you dropped it.

And so now they're going to start tugging and pulling at the ball, bumping you a little bit more to make you lose confidence. How do you I mean, how do you like you because you say, you know, I missed those shots, but they damn they felt good. They felt good. And before I know it, I'm dribbling the ball and I'm

skipping down the court. I'm coming down with a rhythm box. And I don't even know I'm doing it. It's just the moment of feeling of it. Right. So once I do that, I'm in the game. And once I'm in the game, I'm coming down with a rhythm and a bop. I don't even know what I'm doing. It's just the moment and the feeling of it. Once I do that, I'm in the game. Once I'm in the game, I think anything can happen. It can change the course of the game. You may hit a half-court shot. It was worth three points, but it was worth

so much more than that when the crowd's going crazy and your teammates are into it. It gives you a whole new juice, a whole new life. You're right. We see these guys with tremendous handles now. We see Steph Curry patting the rock. I think Kyrie Irving has the best handles that I've ever seen, and I've seen from Rod Strickland to Isaiah Thomas

and yourself had crazy handles. Stephon Marbury, where would you put your handles when it comes to handles with guys being able to – not only just – we've seen guys handle the ball, but they can't shoot. We've seen guys can shoot, they can't handle the ball. But you were a combination. Where would you rank your handles? I hate talking about myself, to be honest with you, but

I would say, I would say I'm top tier. If there was a top shelf of drinks, I don't drink the top shelf of drinks. I'd be on that top shelf. You're on the top shelf? I'm on the top shelf. Okay, give me, okay, all time, give me your four top handles of all time. Not including myself.

No, I'm not going to include myself. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to put Isaiah Thomas. Okay. I'm going to put Kyrie. Okay. I'm going to put White Chocolate. Okay, Jason Williams.

Yeah, yeah. You see I got him on my poster up there. He's right there. I got the White Chocolate. And I got to put this last one. Allen Iverson slash Rod Strickland slash Nick Van Axel slash

Stephon Mulberry. I'm putting them all in there last. Slash Chris Paul. I got to put C.P. on there too. Because I think the thing is that when we see guys with handles, it's one thing to have handles because we've seen guys at the park that have handles and can't shoot a lick. But the way these guys can handle the ball

and still get their shot off, that's what's most impressive to me, is that I've seen great shooters, but they need someone to pick for them and they have to come off screens or they have to, you know, but these guys can handle the ball. Kyrie and Steph Curry, the way they can handle the ball and get that shot off.

Dame, I forgot about Dame Lillard. Dame, skip to Malou, you got, you got, I got so many, Malou, you got a lot of people. Yeah, but I think like you said, the difference is, especially in today's game, if you can dribble the ball and you can shoot, you're unguardable. Because the physicality, you can't get too close to somebody that can dribble, right? Right. But you can't back up and let them shoot either. So if you can do both, you know,

you walk in 25 points a game if you have the freedom to do it. What do you think about what you see with these guys shooting these logo threes? I watched Dane and I watched Steph Curry shoot logo threes like they're shooting free throws. Did you ever think the game would morph into what it's become? Not at all. Because when I came in the game, you know, it was specific

positions, right? If you was a point guard, I don't care if you was the best shooter in the world, you got to get that wing score of the ball first. You better throw it in the shack, right? I don't care who you are. So if you look at a guy like Ray Allen, who was the best shooter until Steph, he probably took five threes a game. You know what I mean? So the game has

morphed and changed, and to see Steph, to see Dane, to see Trey Young, to see all these guys shooting it from logos, they're making their teammates better too. Even though they're shooting from the logo, they're making their teammates better because they're providing space. When you have space and you can't touch, now the game is just unlocked. And to see that and to see these kids working on that,

I was born 15 years too early because I really enjoyed this. Because when you look at it, you guys took those shots. It was the end of the quarter. It was the end of the half. It was late in the shot clock. You tried to beat the shot clock. These guys are taking the shots that you took at the end of the half, the end of the game, late in the shot clock.

They're taking that shot with 18 seconds in the shot clock. They're taking that shot. They'll come down a three-0-1 and launch a 28-foot three-pointer you know what the worst shot in basketball was when I came in off the dribble three they said you can get that shot with five seconds on the clock why are you coming down shooting that shot now people didn't think you could

win being a jump shoot team until Golden State changed it right so now 15-20 years later the game is just a lot it's like everybody has freedom to shoot uh they can expand and see how far they can go with it i mean now you got guys like you said pulling up right inside half court 20 seconds on the clock right you know and that's unlocking the game we haven't seen this before nobody's been able to to have that freedom and then to take the game to that kind of level so it's an unbelievable place right now. Yeah, what I saw with the All-Star game with Dame and Steph,

that was ridiculous. That was the greatest shooting performance that I've ever seen in the game. I'm watching guys take one step across half court, shoot the ball like it's their normal shot, and they splashing it. What Dame did to end the game, he scored the last 11 for LeBron's team that won. In the last shot of the game, he walks one step across half court

and shoots it. And like, okay, Steph Curry is already waving by. And the confidence to shoot like that. Because, I mean, even that confidence to do that, you have to be so heightened. The heightened confidence, it has to be through the roof. Right. You know, to shoot that shot and not say, oh, man, my teammate,

even though I have the freedom of teammates to look at the players, you know, what am I doing this for? But these guys are taking it to a new level, and it's just fun to sit back and watch. When you realize, and it's probably, I don't know if it's ever going to be done again, a guy plays with four different teams, and he's able to score 50 with four different teams.

What do you remember about each 50 point game in the, in those, in the specifics of the team? The first one with the bulls, it was Roman with drafts. You look this up. Roman with drafts. He says, my last game on the beat, this pregame, you know, you do a scrum. He says, my last game on the beat, you can score.

Go give me 50 a night. And I looked and I turned serious. I said, I'm going to get 50 a night. And I wouldn't got 50 in Toronto. And I remember I was wearing some S.Doc Carter's. And Jay-Z texted me after the game and said, must be the shoes. So that was cool. The second one was against Miami.

And they had just won the championship. And like I said, I missed the first four shots. And then I scored 42 straight points without a miss. So it was like a video game. I always come down. I had 16 straight shots in a miss. So it was like a video game. I always come down. I hit 16 straight shots in one game. And of those 16, eight of them were threes.

Like, that was the hottest night of my life to me. If I would stay – I came out with seven minutes to go. So if I would have stayed in, it probably would have been like 65, I believe. You know, that was probably the hottest night. The third one was against Charlotte. And that was maybe the easiest one, to be honest with you. I shot a lot of free throws. I shot 18 free throws. And I had a rough game the night before in Atlanta and I

remember Don Nelson said you know we're not having shoot around just sleep in all day I slept all day and had 50 the last one was probably the most impressive personally because that's what people like oh he's year 19 he can't do this no more you know right into doing on Dirk's night of course and everybody's there watching all the legends there, Charles Barker, everybody there. And to do it off the bench, and I've been coming off the bench for over a decade, and I had really good games, games I'm like, man, if I was starting, this would be 50. To have

the opportunity to do that, to score 50 off the bench and five assists and five rebounds, it would have been unbelievable to win. That's the only game I ever scored 50 and lost. But on Dirk's night, to celebrate with him, it was an unbelievable feeling. When you hit the 16 straight shots, had you

ever been that hot before? And had you ever been that hot since? I had never been that hot before. I may hit 10 in a row, then miss one, then hit another two, then miss one, and miss, not 16 straight. It felt like I could have kicked it up there. That was the Miami Heat.

They had just won the championship the year before. Was that opening night that you guys won? No, it wasn't opening night. It was in January,

I believe. Okay. It was in January. But they had just won the year before, you know, so when they come to town in the garden,

it's a show. You got Wade, you got Shaq, you got G.P. Yeah, it was a show. Yeah. Wake up with football

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Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You played last year for like with Brooklyn. You you mentioned when they went down into the bubble you had a five you had a five point game in five minutes did playing in that situation lead you to believe that you know what I can concede I can still play I can still give somebody 15 minutes a night and maybe give them double digit points'm going to tell you two things to that. Absolutely, Shane.

I went to practice. I got there late. I went to practice. And practice looked just like the game did. And I didn't want to just come back against anybody. Milwaukee at the time was number one in the East. I said, I want to come back against somebody nice. So for that five-minute stretch, it was – I mean, I had five points

and three assists in five minutes. Right. And the whole game, the complexion of the game changed. And for my teammates, it was what they had seen in practice. The crazy part about the hamstring was the hamstring – and I'm telling you this. I've never said it. The hamstring happened in the weight room.

I never lift weights. I'm notorious for not lifting weights and just going to, you know, do my routine and go do my thing. But here I am being blessed enough to get a call. I'm not going to go to a new team. I'm not doing the weight I'm not doing this. So often, you know, I lived through, I guess, just that was too quick a turnaround

from the weights to not playing for 16 months to the weights to write to a game. But now I feel great now. And yeah, it confirmed what I believed I knew previous season. I'm looking at you and I'm looking at, you played a lot of different teams. You mentioned the Bulls, you mentioned Toronto,

you mentioned, so you've played with a lot of great players, the Clippers. When you, around those great players, I mean, what is, how do you like, I guess it's different from basketball because, you know, you're trying not to step on anybody's toes, but I got a job to do here. I also got a job. I understand you are who's toes, but I got a job to do here. I also got a job.

I understand you are who you are, but I got a job to do. How do you manage that? Because from what I see and from what I hear, basketball player egos are a lot different than football players' egos. Well, I was blessed to play with some great superstars. Every superstar I played with and every star player I played with empowered me. They said, no, no, no, you do what you do. You know, if you look back at the Clippers, I was there five years,

we had two superstars and Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, then DeAndre Jordan became a star. For five years, I was top five in the league and fourth quarter scoring in the whole league when I was with the Clippers. So they empowered me to say, you know what? We're superstars. We're going to do our thing. We won't leave us, but we know the fourth quarter is your time. So they never tried to say slow down or any of that. They empowered me and wanted me to be better

because they felt like it would help our team be better. So I was blessed to play with some great, great players. You mentioned, I mean, playing with so many great players and they're empowering you. So when you say they empower you, how would someone not empower you to do your job? I mean, what can a superstar do to like, guys don't feel comfortable being themselves?

Well, for me in my game, you see, I take some crazy shots, Shannon. So if they come off and say, hey, man, you need to slow down. Then it's going to get me thinking. And the worst thing, especially a basketball player, a shooter could do is think. So if that gets you thinking, then now you're like,

oh, no, I'm going to go this way. Now you're not aggressive. And I've never been a defender to that degree, so I'm going to be on the bench if I ain't making something happen in offense. And they've always said, no, no, no, go be that attacker. Go be that guy that kind of like, not our secret weapon, but one of our guns

and go make it happen. They've always done that. And most coaches I've played for have done that. Especially a guy like Doc Rivers. He never held what I did to do well against me. He always empowered me as well. And I think that helped me in my career as well. Why weren't you guys able to get it done with the Clippers? You mentioned you have

Blake Griffin as a superstar. You have Chris Paul, who's one of the premier point guards, who's going to be an all-time great. You have DeAndre Jordan, a Budden superstar at the time. Why weren't you guys able to get the ball across the road? I mean, across the finish line?

I think it was two things. I think one, we had some bad breaks. You know, in the five-minute stretch in the playoffs at one point, Chris, I think he, Blake breaks his hand, I think Chris pulls a hamstring. You can go look, we're playing the Portland Trailblazers, we're up 2-1 in the series. This is a

five-minute stretch. There was some other injuries, but to be very, very honest, I think we weren't mentally ready to take that step. I think at the time, we were all thinking about our youth. Oh, if we don't get it done this time. You know, we want to get. Oh, if we don't get it done this time. You know, we want to get it done. We got time on our side.

Right. It seemed like even OKC at the time when they played Miami in the finals, it took years for even one of those guys to get back to the final between Durant, Westbrook, and Hart. You know, so I think we weren't mentally ready to take that next step. And I think in the end it cost us. ready to take that next step. And I think in the end, it costs us. But people talk about

the budding of the heads between Chris Paul and Blake. Did you notice it? Did you notice it? Did you feel like there was tension between those two guys? Because superstars, normally, somebody has to say, take a backseat.

With Jordan and Pippen, Pippen knew, hey, I ain't better than Jordan, I'm cool. But Shaq and Kobe had some tension because Kobe's like, hold on, bro, hey, I'm level. So for us, it was interesting, and it was weird because not just

those two, you can pick up on little things here and there throughout our team, but we never just addressed it. We never just addressed it, hit it head on and dealt with it. I don't know. Because off the court, we were cool. Everybody was cool. Right.

But we never addressed it head on. And I think that was the root of the problem. Because when it gets tough, and now somebody says something, you don't know what kind of place it's coming from. Right. Because you guys have never addressed it head on. What'd you say? What'd you say?

But hold on. Right, right, right. But you got tenure. you guys have never addressed it head on. What'd you say? But hold on. But you got tenure. That's where you're supposed to step in because you were there, I mean, you were what, at that time, you had been in the league six, seven, eight years? Nine, ten years? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Why didn't you, because you the OG, why didn't you pull CP aside? Why didn't you pull Blake aside? Why didn't you guys go to dinner and say, guys, look, in order for us to get to ultimately where we need to be, we got to be together, and we're not. Oh, we had those meetings. We had those talks.

We definitely had them. You know, but it just – we never all – and it wasn't just those two. We never all got on the same page. If you look, Shannon, I'm telling you, for that five-year stretch, I think we were third or fourth in the league in wins. Like, we were winning a bunch of games, but when it counted, either be bad luck or us never addressing

what was really going on, the elephant in the room through all of us, it didn't happen. And that's something I think if you look back on now, we all regret. Did you know, do we know what the elephant in the room is? Were they vying for, okay, this is my team? No, this is my team.

No, this is my team. I was here the longest. I'm the best player. What is it? That's the thing. Both of them was very comfortable who they were. If you look at that time, they both were probably top two or three with LeBron and KD that had the most commercials out there. So it wasn't like, this is my team, this commercial.

It was just a weird dynamic. And like I said, it the most commercials out there. So it wasn't like, this is my team, this commercial. It was just a weird dynamic. And like I said, it just wasn't those two. It spread throughout the team. And we never got on the same page. And it always came to a halt when we were in the toughest moments in the playoffs. Sometimes when you have situations like that, the teams end up choosing sides. If you've got a 15-man locker room and you've got two superstars, half of the guys go in with you know half of the guys going

with him and half of the guys over there and that serves no purpose for anyone no not at all but that wasn't the issue we were both everybody was cool both of them like they brought good dudes we was cool with everybody that's why it's so weird it wasn't like man this was going on we got to handle this and it's these two it wasn't like that like they were very cordial they would talk everything was cool, but it was just something bubbling throughout our team that we didn't address and it cost us bottom line. You Phoenix you mentioned book. You mentioned Brit. You mentioned the guy

some of the guys Deandra ate and that guy that you played with when we talk about Devin Booker. Everybody says that we saw the 70-point game that he had. Did you know he had that in him? You know, I didn't know about Booker until I saw him. I didn't know that winning mattered to him as much as it did. And what I mean by that is I looked at him from a distance like, yeah, he's putting up all his points, but they're losing every game. You know, he's scoring a bunch, he's losing.

But then once I got next to him and we started playing one-on-one every day and we started talking the game and seeing how competitive he was, even with practices and scrimmage, I'm like, oh, this dude's a dog. Like, he's going to be just fine when the pieces around him are set up the proper way. And now they're reaping the benefits of it. We'll see Pete come. He changed the whole

complexion along with their growth internally. But getting Imani Williams, getting coaches like that, vet coaches who are stable and know who they are along with what's going on there's no surprise they're doing well how would you describe your play are you better suited to play with younger players because they're gonna listen to or older players are you just i mean uh you like i roll with the punches i do that's what that's what I'm most proud about in my career. I can adjust. I've had 20 different coaches. So imagine you

when you go to college, right? Or your first four years, you've got one coach who's like, you know what? I want you to be the number one receiver. The second coach is like, no, next year,

no, I want you to be number two. Next year's like, no, you'll call the bitch for you too. Next year's like, you might be a tight end. And you just have to adjust and adjust the whole time

and never lose yourself and still be true to who you are and still find a way to make it happen. That's what I'm most proud about. So for me, I think an older team would lean on me more to make it happen on the court. I think a younger team will probably lean on me more off the court to make it happen.

Do you have a coach ever say something to tick you off like, bro, let me do me? Yeah, I've had some coaches. I've had some coaches. I play a crazy style, and I get it. I'm an acquired taste. My style isn't for everybody. You're not for everybody.

No, I'm not for everybody. You ain't going to eat the hot sauce on your pancake, whatever it might be. I get it. So for me, you know, I just try to – what I did learn about myself is I usually have more fun and more success with guys who actually play that I'm playing for because they know you can go 0 for 3, 0 for 4, they turn it around.

You know, they know that. Some guys that haven't played maybe not know the feel of the game. Oh, he's off tonight. He missed two shots. I'm like, no, I'm just getting in the game now. I'm getting out of it. So, yeah, I've had that happen before, and I just try to adjust the road with the punches.

Let's talk about Doc. Doc had great success in Boston. He moved to L.A. You guys are having success with the Clippers. But for whatever reason, as you mentioned, he's not able, even after getting Kawhi, after getting Paul George, bringing on some other guys, he's not able to get it over the finish line. They have a 3-1 lead.

They're up by double digits in all those games, 5, 6, and 7. They don't get it done. He moves on. Are you surprised that he wasn't able to get it done with last year's roster? And what do you think about the job he's doing in Philly right now? Yeah, I was surprised being a 3-1. I just knew they'd find a way to win the game. You know, but it's a slippery slope.

It's a touchy thing because now if you lose that one, I'm getting a 3-1 and lost. You know, and we played Houston. We lost and we was up 3-2. We was like, oh, we're going to finish at home. We're up in game six, 19, the fourth quarter. 19, the fourth quarter at home. You could simulate that 100 times and 99 times and they work in our favor,

and that'd be the one time it did. Right, and their best player, James Harden, didn't play one second in the fourth quarter. So they came back with Prigioni, Josh Smith, Jason Terry, Corey Brewer, and Dwight Howell. Right? So I've been in that locker room in that situation before. It's 3-1

sounds like a wide margin, but after it's 3-2, now they start getting fake. We ain't got nothing to lose, man. I mean, look what Bron and those guys did against the Warriors. Right. You know what I mean? And when it gets to game seven, everybody's tight. You're like, oh, man.

Like, they got momentum. So I was surprised they didn't finish it. Seeing the job he's doing in Philadelphia, I'm not surprised. Because I knew if anybody could get Ben Simmons and Embiid on the same page and get that team believing and get them over the hump, they'd be done. I remember texting him as soon as he got out of the job, like, oh, you're going to take them to the next level. I just knew it.

I know he stands for it. I know he's about it. I know how he gets everybody to buy into the team, and that's exactly what they need. But it seemed to me that on Doc's exit, the superstars, they threw Doc under the bus. And what I'm seeing now as they play, maybe it's the same thing you're seeing.

In clutch situations, they can't get stops defensively and they can't execute offensively. The same thing that happened in that 3-1 lead. Yeah, and you know what? The regular season, especially when you come to a new team, is about building those habits. I remember Doug used to always

say, it'll be game 35, we're playing in Utah. He's like, yeah, it worked tonight, but it's not going to work in the Western Conference semis. It's not going to work in the playoffs. So he's always thinking long-term. So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially until I see them under that fire.

Right now, they've still figured stuff out. They still got another half of the season. I want to see where they're at when the playoffs come around and see if the adjustments are made. But the two superstars, what are they figuring out? You're like, okay, put the ball in the basket. Okay. Now, I was told, I don't know if you heard this also,

you're talking about the two greatest wing defenders since Pip and Jordan. And I see Luka on a conga line. I see Bradley Beal. You can't be a defensive team if you let the Stars go get 10, 15 points over their season average. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. But Luka did it last night, too, and Doc ain't coaching him. Oh! So that's where

you said it was, Doc. That's what I'm hearing you say. I wasn't in that particular locker room, so I don't know exactly, but I'm sure when it's time to play the blame game, it's easy to find that. You know, I think it's a combination of everybody. Right. Yeah, I think it's a combination of everybody.

I've always said that. You win as a team, you lose as a team. But you can't let Luka do that. Well, the rest of the league let Luka do it. No, but the rest of the league ain't got the best two best wing defenders since Jordan and Pipp. That's true. Sometimes people got your number, though.

You know, it may be just a certain matchup. And I didn't watch that game last night. Jason Tatum got that number, too? That's a bad boy. What about Brandon Beal? That's another bad boy. KD, Harden, Kyrie. I see. I know a lot of people got that number. They didn't get an unlisted number.

Hey, Jamar, they didn't get an unlisted number because that number must be public. God, that man was just dialing them up. But one thing we do know is Kawhi is almost like a robot. You know he's going to be there. You know he's proven. He got two championships. He's a lockdown defender.

When it's time to be there, he will be there. Are we sure about this? Now, see, I think you're talking about the Kawhi from San Antonio. We haven't seen that guy. Well, in Toronto, we saw that guy. He won a championship. No, no, no. We saw them build a wall. We haven't seen that guy. Well, in Toronto we saw that guy. He wouldn't want to challenge you. No, no, no. We saw them build a wall. We saw KD get hurt. We saw Klay Thompson get hurt. We haven't

seen Kawhi sit in that chair in a long time. Well, hold on now. We just talked about how the league is now. You can't even touch no more. So it's going to take a wall to stop anybody anyway these days now anyway. Man. So who do you like in the West then?

You like the Clippers? You like the Lakers? You like Utah? You like the Nuggets? I like the Lakers in the West. I like the Lakers in the West. I like Brooklyn in the East. I think that's the finals matchup.

That's my pre- I think that's the matchup everybody wants to see. That's the one everybody wants to see. So fingers crossed that both those guys do what they're supposed to do. And they get where we see these guys at the highest level. What's your favorite team you've played on? I would say the Clippers and the Knicks. And the Knicks, we weren't that good at the time,

but there's nothing like playing in the garden. And it's like you're on stage performing. I remember one game, Samuel Jackson came in the game and I wasn't playing. He was across court and I had a suit on. He said, well, you ain't playing? I said, no, I'm on my hand. I said, what am I on my hand? He said, oh, like I was only coming to watch you play. So just moments like that, you don't forget. And you can't duplicate that energy that's in the garden anyway. And in the Clippers, because I feel like we should, I'm not saying we should have won a championship, but I felt like we should at least make the finals one or two times.

Even though you weren't the energy, because everybody understands the garden. We understand what happens in the garden, just not basketball game. You have Jay-Z performing concerts and Kevin Hart selling out comedy shows. Boxing matches, yeah. Right, so you have so much in the history of the Garden.

Do you believe if you guys, what if you guys had gotten to the finals on that team? You guys would have been rock stars, celebrities forever. We would walk on air. We would literally walk on air. Sprewell came to walk around New York right now. That was 20 years ago when they went to the finals. So, yeah, I think we'd be walking on there. Sprewell came to walk around New York right now. That was 20 years ago when they went to the finals. I think we'd be walking on there.

We wouldn't pay for any meals, anything in town forever. Donald Sterling, you was there. We all hear, look, I live in L.A. now and there's not very many buildings that you can pass, especially here in Beverly Hills and on Wilshire that doesn't have Sterling on it.

So we know he's a big presence. Did you know, you hear things, but did you know it was to that extent in which he did not like blacks? No, I had zero idea. Obviously, I heard he was different. You know, I heard he was a little weird. He had these weird white parties and things of that nature. I heard all that.

And even, like, but he wasn't present with our team. In my years there, before he got, you know, removed, he came to the locker room one time. So it wasn't like he was, we had seen him across the court, but he wouldn't say nothing. We saw him in the locker room one time. So when we heard that this could potentially come out, we were like, okay, okay well he's already a

little weird a little different so what did he say that's without us knowing what was said right then when we hear the tapes now it's taking on a whole different life of its own you know now at the time social media just kind of started and you had people giving their opinion about what what they should do and what you should do and this is y'all's moment this is y'all's you know you gotta take a stand and we even had some players from golden state say hey if you guys don't want to play we won't play either you know so it was it was deep and we had to do that and he didn't need to be there anyway with those kind of thoughts nobody knew it was to that degree of that level are you surprised surprised the NBA took the steps

that it took in order to remove him? No. If you look at the NBA, they've always kind of been the leader in this world. And Adam is unbelievable. He doesn't even just feel like a commissioner. He feels like someone you can talk to, someone that's really going to listen to you.

Yeah, and listen to what's best for the league and your concerns and try to rectify that. So I had no idea that it was going to go that fast, but he made it happen. And we were able to breathe a little bit as it did happen that fast. You were in Minnesota with Jimmy Butler, Cat, Carl Anthony Towns,

Andrew Wiggins. Yeah. We want to know about what really happened at the practice because we've got bits and pieces here, and somebody said this over there. I need to know. The people really want to know what really happened and how did it happen at the practice? I was gone at that point.

Remember, I only stayed one year. Okay. But Jimmy called me. Okay. He said, man, if you could have been at this practice here. They said he came in there. He came to the practice, I believe, after it got started. And they were kind of shocked to see him because I think he's come off an injury or something.

He came in there. And I'm going to tell you the coldest part. And I don't know if Jimmy said this. I think he had his Rolex on while he was killing everybody. I think he had a Rolex watch on while he was killing people, picking them apart in practice. It walked off of him.

It was classic from what I heard. So why didn't Jimmy, like you said, you're an acquired taste. Yeah. Listening to Jimmy, watching Jimmy. Jimmy is also an acquired taste. But you would

think if something tastes good, you would like, okay, I'm going to at least try it. Why don't you think Jimmy worked in Minnesota? I think Jimmy, knowing him and playing with him, Jimmy's all about hard work. He's all about getting better. He's all about team.

And if he doesn't feel that from everybody, then he's already rubbed off the wrong all about team and if he doesn't feel that from everybody then he's already rubbed off the wrong way you gotta remember jimmy's a self-made superstar right juco you know had to really grind if you know his situation when he had to come up through he wasn't one that was you know a prodigy as a kid and like knew what this was going to be he made himself that even when he came to chicago he's a defender first he got minutes right being a defender so he respects the grind i say that. Even when he came to Chicago, he was a defender first. He got minutes by being a defender. He respects the grind. I say that to say that

he respects the grind. He respects the game. He respects people that put the work in. He respects no agendas. It's all about winning. When he went to Miami, I told him, I said, you were built for Miami 20 years ago. You didn't even know it. The way everything you stand

for and what you're about and how they go about their business, he was a Miami Heat player. So I think those things rubbed him the wrong way. If he sees anybody not fall in line with all those things, you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to make every shot. You're going to try hard. You're going to put your team first, and you're going to work hard. And if you don't do those things, Jimmy's off you.

Let's talk about some of your teammates. And when I mention your name, you tell me the first thing that comes to your mind okay nate nate robinson character character i played with nate in high school and i played with him again in the nba character he was the same nate's the same at six in the morning and six at night he's a character let me ask you one thing about nate why didn't you call nate and, Nate, don't you get your ass in that ring? You're not a boxer. Hey, you know what?

Nate was basketball state player of the year, football state player of the year, and to this day owns the fastest time in the hurdles. Nate can do anything. But what I told him is that day, I said, look, when you go in there, man, you got to be calm. You got to be calm. You got to remain calm. You know, boxing, just watching.

I'm not a boxer. I would never go in there. But just watching. They always look at Floyd Mayweather. He don't even start really getting into it until round three or four when he's dissecting it. I mean, he's the best. But I told Nate just to be calm.

Just be calm. And when he went out there, it was like he was moving so fast. You know, but I would never bet against Nate. But I didn't like to see what I saw there at all. But here's the thing. You wouldn't bet against Nate, but I didn't like to see what I saw there at all. But here's the thing. You wouldn't bet against Nate in something basketball, maybe football related, maybe track and field. You put somebody in an unfamiliar environment. I wouldn't bet against a lion.

But if I put a lion in water and says, okay, beat this crocodile or beat this alligator, I'm taking the alligator. I'm taking the animal that's in his habitat. You're absolutely right. I thought, honestly, I thought it was more charity. I didn't know they was really getting down boxing like that. Like, I thought it was a charity type thing. It was real. It was real.

But how you fight for charity? You know what I'm saying? They're like, oh, they don't play fight. We either do this or we don't. Yeah. I learned that watching it. You either do it or you ain't. Man, that was crazy.

That was crazy. And then when Snoop started singing, it just made it way worse. Man, Snoop about his ass. Snoop said, oh, Lord. Yeah, I got to talk to Snoop about that one. But the thing about Nate, Nate believes he can jump over tall buildings. And he's done that. He's proven that.

So there ain't no back down in him at all. And I respect that part of him, for sure. Of all your teammates, who talked the most trash? Oh, that's a good one. Talked the most trash out of all of them? Maybe Rick Brunson. Rick Brunson was a good trash talker. He had them slick one-liners.

Yeah, he had them slick one-liners. I thought you were going to say the truth. Oh. You're right. You're one million percent right. And you know what? It ain't even close, actually. I'm tripping.

I was tripping on that one. The truth is absolutely number one trash talker in this. And probably the number one that I played against was Kevin Garnett. So them two together, I couldn't even imagine that. You played with some tough guys. You played with Oak, Middle World, Pete, Jimmy Butler, Derrick Rose, Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Chauncey Biller.

You got to go, you're going into a fight. Who are you taking with you? I'm taking Oak and Mehta. I'm taking them two. I'm taking Oak and Mehta, I'm taking them two. I'm taking Oak and Meadow, them two. Them two is first. Why do when I mention tough and I say, okay, we got to go to a fight, everybody break up Oak.

Oak my dog. I've been knowing Oak 25 years. So I know Oak. But it's funny to hear other people talk about Oak. Let me flip it. Out of all your sports friends that ain't in the NFL, who are you taking to the fight that you just met over the years? Whoo!

I'm going to take Ray Lewis. Yeah. I'm going to take Keith Burns. I'm going to take... I'm going to take Oh I'm going to take Steven Jackson and I want to take Matt Barnes

You can't go wrong with them too I'm good You can't go wrong with them at all They're my boys too You can't go wrong with them I'm taking two If you're a basketball player give me Oak, give me Stacks You can't go wrong with them at all. They're my boys, too. You can't go wrong with them. I'm taking two. Them two basketball players.

I'm taking. If you're a basketball player, give me Oak. Give me Stacks. Give me Matt Barnes. Matt Barnes. You have all the rest. I give you all the rest of them. I play with all three of them, too. So I'm going to war with all of them.

Them three. Your signature move. I mean, everybody. The crossover. You know, Madison had a great crossover. But you, they nick you Drake J crossover. How do you set the move up and how did it come about? Well, I got different variations of it to be honest with you.

And when I grew up, I was watching Isaiah Thomas. I was watching Tim Hardaway and then Allen Iverson took it by storm. But Allen's is always it was a left or right, you know, and it was getting everybody with it. Yep. And he was adored with it. Oh, he got on. He rocked Mike's world with that one. But, and he did it twice. If you go back and look, he hit it with a short

one first. Right. And then he hit it with that long one. But, yeah, so I learned from those guys and I always went through the Iverson one. I said, you know what, what if I do it behind my back? It would be even harder for the defense to get the ball. And so I said, I'm going to do it behind the back. And I just started making different variations of it.

You know, and being a guy who's 6'5", you know, with long arms, sometimes I'll lose the ball, but only I know where it's at. So they think I lost it. I can go back and get it. It plays right into the crossover. You know, so for me, I just saw it and saw it and started evolving mine. And I stole some from all those guys and just tried to make my own collage of it.

Because what makes yours so unique, as you mentioned, you're 6'5". Those guys are 6'3 and below. Yeah, and below. You look at Iverson. You look at Steph. You look at Kyrie, Hardaway, Rod Strickland, all the guys that could pat the rock.

None of them were as long and lanky as you are. That's why when you talk about top handles, I didn't want to toot my own horn. I'm like, no, I'm 6'5". None of them were as long and lanky as you are. That's why when you talk about top handles, I didn't want to toot my own horn. But I'm like, no, I'm 6'5". So that's an advantage for me because I have such long arms and I can put the ball in places and then, you know, go back and turn into a crossover. Who are your favorite players you crossed over?

I'm going to go with Ray Allen man how you Ray you crossed over a shooter you proud of that nah because Ray was Jesus Sheldon's work that was my life in high school when I saw that movie I was like man he got game that's Jesus you know so just Ray being a shooter and being a you know

such a great player and hall of fame player and such respect for him I I would say Ray Allen. Nothing against Ray at all. It's just the stature he is. Right. We talked about you coming off the bench. Explain the conversation the first time a coach says, Jamal, we're going to move you from the starting lineup

and you're going to be a reserve. You're going to start coming off the bench. What was that conversation and did you like? But I'm giving you to be a reserve. You're going to start coming off the bench. What was that conversation, and did you like, but I'm giving you buckets as a starter? Yeah, it was Larry Brown. He was one of the first ones, you know, once I established myself in my career. Before I was even six, man, I was in year six,

and I just started and averaged, I think, 18 the year before. He was like, no, I want you to be our punch off the bench. I think our team will be better. And I'm really a big team guy. So I said, all right. He's like, I'm going to you to be our punch off the bench. I think our team will be better. And I'm really a big team guy. So I said, all right. He's like, I'm going to give you the same freedom, everything. So I had some really good games. It was just that simple.

It was that simple. You felt a little weird at first. Like, oh, man. A little shot to the ego. But you know what? I always look at it like a challenge. Like, I'm into different challenges. I always feel like there's another mountain to climb.

So for me, I said, you know what? This is something I've never done before. Let me see if I can do it. And I'm confident different challenges. I always feel like there's another mountain to climb. So for me, I said, you know what? This is something I've never done before. Let me see if I can do it. And I'm confident enough in my skills that I thought I could make the adjustment. It was more so mentally I had to make the adjustment. Okay. I need to Mount Rushmore six men. Now, you only got four spots.

Yeah. Yeah. J.R., Ginobili, Jason Terry, Eddie Johnson, Dale Curry, Lamar Odom, we got Michael Wave, and Jamal Crawford. You only got four spots. Well, I'm not going on that list,

so I'm not even putting myself on there. Oh, you're not? No, I can't. I don't put myself on those lists, and I don't. I pay how much it'll be. If you look at my wall, I got people that are all before me. You ain't got no picture of yourself on the wall? No, no, look at it. I don't. I pay homage to the people. If you look at my wall, I got people that are all before me.

You ain't got no picture of yourself on the wall? No, no, look at it. I ain't got no... I got Tupac back there. I got a bunch of people, but I ain't got myself, so I'm not going to put myself on. I'm going to always pay homage, so keep that in mind. I'm going to have you check. Mikael. Oh, God. Ricky Pearson, Eddie Johnson in Microwave.

I can't do nobody from my era. I got to get them in their files. Hold on. You know what? I've noticed that because a lot of rappers, a lot of singers do that. They don't like, I mean, and comedians, because I have some of those guys on the show, and they're like, man, I can't put that guy. He's my era.

I can't put him up on Mount Rushmore. So what is it about guys from your era that you find so hard to put on Mount Rushmore? It's not about them so much as respect to the generation before them. Yeah, because I just, we're staying on their shoulders. You know what I mean? Like, we didn't know what a six-man was until it was half the check of McKellie's guy. So for me, if you did my era, if you changed the question and said my era, I can give you a better answer. Okay.

What was your era? Ginobili. Okay. Lou. Okay. Jason Terry. Okay. Lamar Odom.

That's it. And I know, but then I got to give a love to Ben Gordon. Shout out Ben Gordon just because he did his thing when he was a six-man as well. You grew up in Seattle. And Seattle is really not, it's not like, look, we know Doug Christie was in Seattle, yourself, Nate Robinson. I think you had someone else that played and went to your high school.

But it's not like New York. It's not like one of these major cities that's known for Detroit, known for Hooper. What was it like growing up in Seattle? And did you always know you wanted to be an NBA player? It was special because the basketball community was so tight. You know, you could see a Gary Payton or Sean Kim. Once I was 16 years old, they were playing my high school games, you know, allowing me to come around them and learn from them. So the community was always special for that reason alone.

And then you see guys like when I was coming out of high school, it was a big thing just to go division one. You know, guys would get more scholarships in football. We had more history with the Eric McCaffs and Corey Dillons, you know, and the Laurie Molloy and those guys. And basketball was only, you know, Doug Christie and Clint Richardson and James Edwards. And they were way before us besides Doug.

So I think Doug really took me under his wing and in turn, once I made it, Brandon Roy, Isaiah Thomas, DeJounte Murray, Zach Levine, Kevin Porter. Now all those guys coming up, they see us in the community, one of their own, going to the NBA, like, we can do it. Before

it was like, if you go with Division One, a big- it. Before, it was like, just, if you go with Division One, a big-time Division One, that was like going pro. It's raining, we're always inside the gym, you know, but then you see a Nate Robinson go, like, oh, if I'm A.B. Bradley, I can do that. Or Marvin Williams, or Martell Webster, Spencer Halls. So many guys, and I think that's what the culture is

special up here, because we all support each other at all times. There's an eighth grader right now from Texas, or a sophomore in high school from Tech, Zach Levine, asking questions. We're all right here other at all times. This is an eighth grader right now from Texas. Or a sophomore in high school from Texas asking questions. We're all right here. That's the coaching we do. Did you always want to play basketball or were there other words you were interested in? No football, no

track and field? I played football. I had hands. I think I got better hands than you. No, I'm talking crazy now. But no, you see how you laughed at me? But no, I played football. I started football, basketball, baseball at the same time. Eight, no, he laughed at me. But, no, I played football. I started football, basketball, baseball at the same time. Eight, nine-year-olds. Football, I had really good hands.

Baseball, I didn't really want to play offense. I just wanted to play defense. It's opposite in basketball. And in basketball, I just stayed with it. It was just natural to me. My dad actually played. He played with Kevin Love's dad. Yeah, so I've always been around basketball

ever since I was two years old, man. It's had a hold on me. It still does to this day. But I'm looking at your body type. You're in your 40s, and you probably weigh a buck 80, so I can just imagine you as a 14, 15-year-old kid. Did you weigh 120 pounds then?

No, I wasn't 120. I wasn't 120. I wasn't pooky. I wasn't pooky out here, but I was like 165, 170 at the time. But yeah, I was thin. I was real thin. You dropped the legendary, the pro-am that you dropped 63 in front of Kobe.

What was it like doing that in front of Kobe? What was it like playing against Kobe and being around him? I'm answering two parts. and the second part was when me and you were going to start debating about something. I already know where it's going. Okay, okay.

The first part, Colby's aura was like nothing else. It was like nothing else I had seen. The closest I had seen to him was Jordan, and I had been around Jordan being with the Bulls and him taking an interest in me and spending time with him. But Colby had a stranglehold on the league. He was just like – he was that myth. You didn't see him unless he was in the gym or a commercial.

You didn't see him nowhere else. You never saw him out. You never saw him at the grocery store. And so playing against Kobe, our relationship over the years took off, and we were actually here for a Richard Sherman softball game. And me and Kobe, we had respect over the years, and we started talking, and we just really hit it off that day. And everybody that comes to Seattle

is like, man, you got to get this guy pro in. And I'm like, man, Kobe still, you know, he got that aura, but I'm like, Kobe, man, would you come to watch me play in pro? He's like, you playing? I said, yeah. And a guy from Nike was like, no, we got to get back to L.A. Kobe's like, no, I'm going to go watch Jamal play.

So he brought his whole family at the win. He had every reason in the world to say no. And he brought his family at the win and came to watch me play. I'm driving over there like, man, Kobe's behind me. I don't believe this. But I said, this has got to be special. So I scored 63 and hit the game winning shot. And we text a lot.

And, you know, our relationship really grew and took off. And I was just, you know, honored. And then I think you're about to ask how I look at it as far as a player. Yes. He was the best player I played against. And obviously we were positions, but he just was. And you know, you was a big Kobe guy. And I know that.

You know, you have respect for both of them. But you love Kobe as well. You love Kobe. Kobe was like nothing else. This is mentality and his work ethic and his skill. He was something different. It was an honor to play against him. What made him so tough to defend?

He was fearless. He was fearless and he had a counter to every single move he had, you know, and then he had two counters to it. So he could go 0 for 15 and still hit the game with a shot. He wasn't shying away. So when you have that kind of work ethic, that kind of steel, that kind of mentality, and that kind of freedom, oh, man, it's over. You know, so that's why you see him score 62 in Dallas, score 61,

or score 80 in a game because you put it all together. It's magic. You, I think, I don't know if I had a list, it came out, but I saw where you commented any list that doesn't have Kobe in the top five. You don't have respect for it. No. You believe Kobe is a top five player all time. I'm talking about all players, current players currently.

Yeah, and I think a lot of players will tell you that, that actually played against him, to be honest with you. His mentality and his competitiveness just, it set him apart, you know. And obviously, like, I didn't see Wilt play. I didn't see Mr. Bill Russell play, who I'm actually very fond of and tight with. I didn't see those guys play, so I don't want to disrespect them by any means. I'm saying guys that I've actually played against, seen play. You saw Magic play, right?

I saw Magic. I got those two, LeBron, Kobe, and Jordan in my top five. I mean, that's not a bad top five, but you do know in the history of sports, I don't know if we've ever had a guy ranked top five with only one MVP. You're right. But MVP is kind of man-made, right? Like even less man-given your peers are the ultimate respect and the ultimate bar for, you know, how they feel about you. He went five and two of the finals. How I look at it too,

is if you look at the tape, you look at any era, I believe Kobe would have been dominant in every single era. And I think his competitiveness and work ethic alone was separated from a lot of guys. It seems to me you went more modern player than your top five.

Like you said, you didn't see Russell play. You didn't see Chamberlain play. But you saw Tim Duncan. I did see Tim Duncan. I think he's I think he's the best power forward ever, but those are so Shaq. I see Shaq.

I think Shaq's right there too. You saw Larry Bird. I did see Bird. It took me a while for even the past. I saw Bird, but it, you know, it took a while. It took a while. Those guys are top ten.

Bird was an acquired taste because we had never seen – I had never seen a white guy be able to do what he was able to do. And I think you took it for granted. And then when you watched him, he bust up everybody. You talk about fearless. Everybody. I talked to Dominique Wilkins about him. He was telling me stories when Bird at 60, he was talking to any bench. You know, and they had to find some of their own players

because they was like, man, hold on. You can't be laughing at me while I'm out here. This dude is killing people. He's different. But yeah, these guys, all those guys before me except Brown. Brown's younger than me, but everybody else is older than me, so I still pay homage to people beforeron. LeBron, talk about LeBron.

What makes LeBron so impressive? And are you surprised that Harry is a year 18? He's still, because we've never seen a player play this well at this age, this late in his career. Are you surprised that he's playing like this? I'm not because look at

look at, look at the expectations. This dude on the cover of Sports Illustrated and Chosen before he graduated high school. Correct. He exceeded expectations that nobody could exceed. And he exceeded them 10 years ago. You know what I mean? So this dude, he's one of one.

And his brain, how smart. He's a basketball scientist. He's a savant. He can he's a chess player playing basketball. It's funny watching him. I was in Phoenix. I was watching him and I'm sitting on the bench. He was playing with his brain before he was doing

anything athletically. I saw him. I saw it was like digital. I just saw everything moving in his brain first before he's moving the chess pieces to what he wanted. He's like, well, LeBron is, he surpassed expectations 10 years ago. This dude is out of this world. Why do you think he received so much criticism being? I mean, people say, well, he played, I mean, look at what he's accomplished and he plays the game the right way and he doesn't get any trouble off the field. He doesn't have anything bad to say about anybody on the court.

Why such dislike with LeBron, especially from some of the old players? They seem to keep moving the line. Well, he does this. Well, they move the line a little further and say, well, he didn't do that, and he does that, and they move it a little further and say, we hadn't done this. Why such criticism for LeBron? Because I don't think people hate on the good ones. People hate on the greats.

You know what I mean? And what he's done is he's changed the way of the landscape of the game. He's changed the way it looks. He changed the way it feels. He's changed so many things that people weren't used to. Right? And he's done it in such a way that you can't do nothing about it.

Like this dude is when he's going from the east to the west, going to the finals, winning championships here, winning championships there. I'm going to 10 straight finals. I hadn't been to 10 straight finals in my pro-am or eight straight. Like I had done nothing in my pro-am. So this dude is just,

there's no limit to what he can do. You know, so you have to respect it. He changed the landscape. He made it okay for a transcendent, a great player to go somewhere else. Because before LeBron, really Shaq was the only one that had left. But I don't know, but at that time, Shaq wasn't as accomplished as LeBron was. LeBron had won two MVPs by the time he packed up.

He had gone to, you know, had gone to the finals. Shaq had gone to the finals. But I think LeBron at that time was probably, what, a five- or six-time first-team All-NBA player. So he was really accomplished. So I will give Shaq his credit. Shaq was the first to do it and the great player to lead. But LeBron, when LeBron went to Miami from Cleveland,

I think that opened up the floodgates that nobody thought would ever open. Yeah, I think that did. And that, that brought a lot of hate. I mean, it brought a lot of love as well for going back home, but I think the Miami thing is where the hate really started. If you go back and think about it, right. Even the decision, it benefited a lot of kids and everything, but I think that's where the hate started because you had Wade, who was a top 10 player at the time, you you had Wade, who was a top-ten player at the time.

You had Bosh, who was a top-ten player. And now you got the best player at the time. You know what I mean? Going there, so that's where I think the hate really started. But I don't see the same level of vitriol for KD teaming up with James Hard and Kyrie. Yeah, but they haven't won it yet either. So if they win it it that hate could come potentially

and i'm sorry and i think because at the time when lebron did it he was the first of his kind to kind of do it that way because when boston did they were in mid-30s you know i mean they did all in their prime so i think they've already seen that template hey you got some of that hate going to golden state right well i think kd got something I hate going to Golden State. Right. Well, I think Katie got it because he went to a team that he had down 3-1. Yeah, that was part of it. That was part of it. He had 3-1.

I think that's what people kind of added that twist to it and they couldn't get over it. Right. I mean, it's all the same, right? Even if they had him down 2-2 and then it was the same you went to a team and that's where people's irion fires from i don't i don't you know i don't care about it because at now it's it's not it's not good because we're judging players on championships right that's what you know that's what caused this because it wasn't good enough to be a great player you say you're a great player but you didn win anything. And they throw that up in your face.

So now guys are saying, okay, well, I want to go win a championship. And now you're like, well, you ring chase. Right. You can't have it both ways. Right. Either championships matter or they don't. Right. And that's the whole thing.

And that's the whole, you just said it. That's the whole thing. Obviously, I think your goat is Michael Jordan. You play with Mike. Give us some – what was Mike like in practice? Some of the gambling stories because we know he's an all-time great gambler, always trying to get people out their money. Yeah, Mike is – like I didn't play with him with the Bulls,

but like I said, when I was with Chicago, my dad had told me previously in the drafts, like, hey, man, Michael Jordan likes your game. I'm these poor social media. I'm like, dad, gets, like, hey, man, Michael Jordan likes your game. I'm these poor social media. I'm like, Dad, get out of here. How do you know Michael Jordan likes my game? So fast forward, I get drafted to the Bulls and Tim Grover calls me one day. He's like, hey, MJ said you can

meet him. I'm like, what? So at 6.30 in the morning, I drive down there and this is when he was prepping for his comeback to the Wizards. Right. And so I go down there and it's myself, Tim, and MJ in the weight room. I'll never forget, he's doing a defensive slide drill. And we were just talking. I didn't want to talk too much. He's working out.

It's like, hey, this summer we can work out together. I'm like, oh, man, this is crazy. So I call my friends back up. Why isn't that Michael Jordan? Nobody answers. It's still early in the West Coast. So that summer, I start going there, working out with him, playing with him. And he was just, I start going there, working out with him, playing with him. And he was just like his aura.

It was like a ghost. He doesn't seem real, does he? He don't seem real. He don't seem real. Think about that. Me and you both feel the same way. There's a million other people that feel the same way. He don't look real.

He doesn't. He doesn't. The first time I met him, I'm looking at him and I know he thought I was crazy because it's like he was levitating. And I know you're not supposed to play reverence and you're not supposed to be blasphemous like this, but he's like a god. I mean,

people, I can't explain it. And everybody else that's ever met him even superstars from Shaq and DeJorn excuse me Shaq to LeBron everybody else that's ever met him has said the exact same thing that he doesn't see real like he's

levitating it looks like there's white smoke around him I promise you it's something else but I start being with him and hanging with him and like just watching him he invited me to his house. Actually, he picked me to be an extra in his commercial to play the younger version of him. And we're playing one-on-one. And he just really took a liking to me.

So, you know, I just, I never actually gambled with him. You know, I was good. Because you know me. Yeah. No, I never gambled with him personally. But he just, he was just something different. I remember one time he came out there and some dude was talking trash to me. Yeah, Michael,

I'm doing this, you know, I'm doing this now and I'll make it as a player. Player make him, he's on the max contract. I'm getting my Ferraris and I'm doing this. And they say, yeah, well now I get mine. They give them to me free just to drive it. He had on, this is a true story, he had on a yellow Jordan outfit.

He had on some black, white, and yellow Jordans that probably still ain't out, and outside he had a yellow Florida mix. So he just was, his whole thinking was just on a whole different plateau. He is. He's a different animal. I mean, to be around him, like I said, it's hard to

explain, but you know that he has no problem. The thing that I love about him, he's that. He has no problem telling you, oh, I'm Michael Jordan. You know that. Hey, there's one dude that said, I ain't never said this. There's one dude that said, who was it playing against him? I forgot.

I could stop you. He said, man, Michael Jordan's playground, airtime, come fly with me. You seen the whole video. You already know what it's about. He's up on all that stuff. He's always looking at your feet to see what shoes you got. Maybe you got some Jordans on. He's up on all that stuff.

One of a kind. And people ask, they say, well, what's he like? I say, I don't know what he'd be like to you, but I'm saying he was cool with me. If he knows you're comfortable, he's super cool. But he gonna, look, he gonna talk trash. That's in him.

That's in his DNA. He can't help that. But he's a good Southern, down-home brother. Like, watching The Last Dance, if you can see his mom, right, that's the thing that's really intriguing to me, how he was raised. His mom would still say, Mr. Jordan, talking about his dad. It's real respectful.

You know what I mean? He's just cool. He's real, real cool. But we played together for two summers. We never lost one game. I never lost playing with him. Two straight – he was 40 years old. Two straight summers.

We played against Kenny. We played against Ray Allen, Tim Harden, Ray Anton. Everybody was coming through Chicago. We never lost. Harden, Ray, Anton, everybody was coming through Chicago. We never lost. So, do you believe that in today's... Do you believe anybody will

ever surpass him as far as what he's been able to do? No. The timing of it. The timing. The shoes. What he accomplished. I saw a stat yesterday yesterday you know he never lost a championship i don't mean with the bulls olympics fiba national championship any championship game he's ever played and he's never lost so this dude was like

out of this world like i just don't think we'll ever see that. Like, his competitiveness, his drive, his work ethic, he was just going to find a way to be Michael Jordan. He never let you down. He was Michael Jordan every single night. And that was the thing. I think the thing is, what's one of my greatest accomplishments is that I actually got an opportunity to see him play.

I didn't get an opportunity. I mean, I saw Magic the last time when he came back, but I didn't see Magic in his prime. I never got a chance to see Bird, but I got an opportunity to see Jordan. And I guess it's like, if you like golf, you got an opportunity to see Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods play.

If you like tennis, you got a chance to see Nadal and Federer and Djokovic, if it's Serena Williams play. If you are a sports enthusiast and you got an opportunity to see that guy play, you know you witnessed something special. Oh, Shannon, think about it. When we talk about goats in other fields, whether it be Tom Brady or soccer, whatever it might be, we say this guy is the Michael Jordan of this sport.

Of this sport. There don't nobody else say that. We don't say that about nobody. Like, he's inspired everybody. Yeah. Like, at those runs, Jay-Z and Beyonce were coming to watch Pick Up. Like, he's inspired everybody from every walk of life, you know, and that's what he's just – I think God just put him here and said,

you're going to be the one. He's the one. Yeah. Jamal, I appreciate it, bro. Thanks for stopping by the club. Anytime. I appreciate it. Thanks for sharing some insight. Best of luck.

Don't know how it's going to turn out this journey, but hopefully you get an opportunity to play and you finish on your terms. Looks like you want to play. You, you want to be the, the Tom Brady of the NBA. Hey, you know, you know, me and him went to school together with the Michigan at the same time. So I'm trying to keep up with him. Don't let anybody do you. Don't let anybody do you. Get back in there. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Appreciate it, Jamal. Have a good one, bro. You too. Thank you. I want to slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life. Look, all my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle pay the price. Want to slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life.

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