Club Shay Shay - John Cena Part 1

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

John Cena enters the ring with Shannon Sharpe at Club Shay Shay for an in-depth discussion about his journey from a small-town athlete to becoming one of the biggest names in professional wrestling and entertainment of all time. John opens up about his sports background, including playing Division 3 football as an offensive lineman, and how his initial foray into working out was driven by a desire to avoid bullying, a decision that ultimately changed his life. John shares stories from his early life, including working odd jobs as a limo driver, assistant greenskeeper, and summer camp counselor, all while pursuing his passion for wrestling. He recalls his move to Los Angeles with dreams of becoming a bodybuilder, only to realize that his true calling was in professional wrestling just a week before joining the Marines. He explains how his journey wasn’t easy—he experienced homelessness and struggled financially even after signing a modest contract with WWF, but a lucky break on TV changed everything. John also delves into his personal life, discussing his relationship with his father, the trauma they’re working to overcome, and how he refuses to let his past define him. Despite his success, John remains grounded, admitting that he fears complacency and continues to work hard on self-improvement. The conversation touches on his unexpected success as a platinum-selling rapper, driven by his love for hip-hop and rebellious nature, which resonated with WWE fans. John also shares his top athlete-rappers and rappers of all time, revealing his deep connection to music. As this first part of the episode winds down, John reflects on his final year in the ring, his desire for a meaningful last match, and his thoughts on the greatest wrestlers of all time. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America, and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, I am joined by the greatest alpine skier of all time, Michaela Schifrin. Michaela talks about the ski accident that changed everything for her, performing while going through grief, and what it's like to release the pressure of being the GOAT. And so much more.

Like, I have no right to be winning this race. I really probably shouldn't even be doing it. But I'm here, so I will win. Listen to this episode of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Podcasts, or funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I remember when I started making money, my worst purchase, because I didn't want a spring for a Lamborghini.

Right. So I bought a fake one. Oh my goodness. They tried to stiff me out of the car. I had to ask some friends who knew how to find things to go and find things. The car finally shows up after two years from me waiting. It doesn't go into gear. Nothing runs.

The car is not roadworthy. So I sent it to a shop. This is 2005. I just got the keys to that car a week ago. What? All my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. a week ago. What? Got the rolling dice, that's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life. Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shea Shea. I am your host, Shannon Sharp.

I'm also the proprietor of Club Shea Shea, the guy that's stopping by for conversation and a drink today. It's one of the greatest and most popular wrestlers of all time. He's been a WWE megastar for over 20 years. He's currently tied with Ric Flair for the most championships in professional wrestling history at 16. He's a platinum-selling rapper, an international superstar, New York Times bestselling author, multifaceted entertainer, one of Hollywood's biggest stars, a living legend, a pop icon, idol to millions, a dedicated philanthropist. He holds the Guinness World Record for the number of wishes granted to Make-A-Wish children. A national treasure, a fan favorite, a household name.

I think he's here, but maybe he isn't. John Cena. Man, how are you going to top that? I think it's just, oh. Thank you so much for the introduction. Man, thanks for having me. You know, I have my own cognac, bro. And what you've been able to do, and we're going to talk a little bit about it.

I like to toast your career. I don't know if you drink or not, but this is my cognac. It's called Chez by La Portia. It's a VSOP. Very nice. Well, I will toast with you. Time is our most valuable asset. Thank you for yours today.

Thank you, bro. Appreciate you. Enjoy. I'm going to make the most out of this. I'm going to keep this. We're going to give you your own bottle, so I appreciate you stopping by. Let's get right into it, bro.

Sports. I mean, obviously, to be able to be a professional wrestler, you have to be athletic to do all those moves. Were you a sports... Were you athletic? Were you into sports when you grew up? I played baseball as a young kid. I transitioned to football at about age 15. Okay. I played baseball as a young kid. I transitioned to football at

about age 15. I played at a Division III school in college, and I was an offensive lineman, and you can see why I played only Division III. You've been to the mountaintop. Offensive linemen are a little bit different frame. A little bigger. I loved the game, but I also had great perspective of the type of athlete that needs to be a professional. So I had fun in college. I'm very thankful for my time and teammates, but it was a chapter that needed to be closed. Did you wrestle in high school? Never.

Nope. I always grew up a fan of professional wrestling. Okay. I think that helped because amateur and WWE or sports entertainment, two very different. Totally different. Yeah. And just because you're a good professional, it doesn't mean you're a good amateur. Just because you're a good amateur does not mean you're a good professional.

Right. Well, we see Brock Lesnar. Yeah. He was in the WWE. We also saw him go to the UFC. Yes. And he tried, you know, NFL football. Yes.

Did you ever think about trying out for NFL football? Or you just realized, like, you know what? I think in Brock's case, Brock is one of the most gifted, hardest working, perseverant, stubborn sons of bitches I've ever met. But I honestly

think physically he could do whatever he puts his mind to. It's also because he's 6'4", 300 plus. So it was a natural transition. He's also because he's 6'4", 300 plus. Right. So it was a natural transition. He's also an NCAA national champion multiple times. He knew body awareness. To put him in the trenches, that's a natural transition, okay?

I am 6'2", 230 pounds. Right. If you were to put me in the trenches, I would get my fucking abs. What about running back? So you also have to be a good running back. Just because your frame is like, oh, your height and weight match up. Let's time your 40.

Still going, huh? You know, so a lot of things have to line up. And I think Brock is a physical anomaly, and I'm glad he found his home with the WWE, because he's fantastic. But I think he is a physical anomaly, and I'm glad he found his home with the WWE because he's fantastic. But I think he could do whatever he really wanted to. Is it true that you were bullied as a kid and you started working out to, like, get away from that?

I am the comic in the back of the—in the comic. Yes, so— The skinny, scrawny kid? Yeah, who eventually found physical fitness as a way of getting people not to bother you. It wasn't get big so I could fight these people. It was get big so I could give the vibe of like, oh, I don't want to mess with that guy. Right. Kind of my own alarm system.

And it worked. But it also introduced me to sport. I found physical training at around age 12. Okay. And then saw the gains at about age 15, right when coaches were like, hey, kid, you want to try football? Right. Sure. Okay. And none of my peers, it wasn't like it is today. Strength training in like the 90s, it was almost like, hey, don't lift weights. You don't want to mess up your baseball swing or your basketball shot. Like it was almost a taboo.

Right. But I found a home in football and i found uh team sports to be very gratifying being a member of a team finally you know i grew up with five five brothers so it was kind of like i had that that family vibe around me i was able to make social connections and you know what it's like to be on a winning team it feels great you also want to know what it likes to be on a losing team you know you can't carry the burden with each other so uh i was i was very grateful that something that started out as a way to defend myself, it's been such a gateway to so many opportunities in life. Proud of you working out. I read you were like a scrawny kid. You weighed like 155 pounds and you started working out and you go to 215. So we're proud of you working out. Did anyone ask

you to participate in sports? Did you want to participate in sports before you started working out? I grew up in a small town where your first chance to play football started at 15. We didn't have any youth football. There wasn't much popularity of soccer or real football, as the Europeans will call it. There was pretty much a little league baseball. So I played little league baseball. I started late. Most kids would play at like six. I started at 10. And I just liked the team aspect of it. So I wasn't good at all, but I was enthusiastic. Okay. And football was something that my skill matched my enthusiasm.

Okay. Did you think about playing baseball? Did you play baseball in high school? I did. Okay. I did. And I remember vividly the day I stopped playing baseball. I worked out before practice.

And I was, to the coach's credit, I was two minutes late to practice. But it was because I had a last period class, got a workout in, and then ran my ass to practice. And the coach, I remember it, I was a sophomore, and the coach said, you're going to have to choose between playing baseball or working out.

And I gave him my hat and my uniform. I said, it's been fun. So you chose working out? I chose working out. And I gave them my hat and my uniform. I said, it's been fun. So you chose working out? Chose working out. So what did you want to do? When you're in high school, you grew up in this small town, you're like, okay, we can only play, we start playing football at 15. You just giving up baseball because you wanted to work out. So what did you want to do? You know, I just wanted to do things I enjoyed. And I like, I think the,

the North star of my life is like not having a plan. Okay. Um, what do you enjoy doing in your time off? Nothing. I don't get much time off though. Okay. But I also bet that's by choice because you like to keep yourself busy and hopefully it's the things you're passionate about. But a lot of times, John, the things that we like to do don't pay a whole lot of money. So neither, but neither did working out. And as a 15 year old, I really wasn't trying to find an angle to make working out, making, make money. I just knew I liked working. You just enjoyed it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I did read you had some very odd jobs growing up. You were like a lim driver. I was. I was an assistant greenskeeper at a golf course. I was a counselor at a summer camp. I've been security for bars. I worked student security

at Springfield College. I got to wear a neon jacket and have people ridicule me around campus and work in parking lots. I've done my fair share of odd jobs. When did you develop this knack to be so great at public speaking? I think as with anything, you learn fluency through failure. And I think it was me always probably trying to stand out with my brothers and getting made fun a lot for it. And then trying to find my social circle in life as a young man and getting made fun of for it so i think it's the courage to be brash and be embarrassed right so i read you moved you come to uh la venice beach and you wanted to be a bodybuilder correct yes so arnold's clearly so arnold was you probably saw what was the movie of course you wanted you saw that he's like you

know what i think i can do that i think arnold's about six foot tall probably way the same i get the pump hey maybe i can they don't time my 40 over there you don't have to run on stage with posing trunks and uh i did some local shows in new england and placed quite well okay and just like playing football at springfield college the first day i stepped on the field at springfield i knew like oh i i will have a career here and that's where it will end okay i was doing well in new england i'm like yeah i'll give it a try the first day i stepped into gold's venice and did one of these like oh this is gonna be a hobby okay that's it this is gonna be a hobby

so there are guys that are my weight but they're five foot four okay that's it. This is going to be a hobby. So there are guys that are my weight, but they're five foot four. Okay, yeah, this is going to be a hobby. Because you're real. And the thing that I tell people, everybody looks good when they're by themselves. But when you go stand next to somebody else that do this and are just as serious, if not more serious than you, you realize, you come to the realization like, you know what? know what. Well, also, you know, that's a great perspective. And you can be so dedicated in something in life and give your absolute best. But when something has a window of popularity, and a lot of people know about it, the 1%, the people who identify early on their talent, strengths, and gifts, maybe have genetics for it. And then those

talents, strengths, and gifts in their gene pool are nurtured in 10,000 hours of practice. Correct. Those are going to be the people who make money off of doing it. Yes, yes. It doesn't mean that I don't work as hard as the next guy. It doesn't mean we're not squatting the same or whatever. It just comes down to like, there's a reason you played in the NFL. I could practice the exact same amount of minutes. I'm just not made for it. You know what I'm saying? So that's that when you take a hobby or a passion or a pastime and make it a vocation,

there has to be a little bit of luck. There has to be a lot of hard work. There's a little bit of magic dust in there as well. But one thing that bodybuilding will teach you is discipline. Because if you're not There has to be a little bit of luck. There has to be a lot of hard work. Yes. There's a little bit of magic dust in there as well. Yeah. But one thing that bodybuilding will teach you is discipline. Because if you're not disciplined with your eating, you're not disciplined with your training. Sure. You can't be successful. Sure.

And it's hard to be successful at anything if you're not disciplined. I don't care how much talent a person has. Yeah. Discipline is the overriding key to success. I agree with you 100% on that. And what I'm very grateful for in my journey is the individual discipline I had with bodybuilding and physical fitness mixed with the team building discipline of show up for practice on time. Don't let your teammates down. So I got

to learn how to take care of myself. Hey, if you don't time your food or if you don't get enough rest or if you don't train, you're going to suck, mixed with you got to work well with others. Bodybuilding is an individual sport and sometimes a very egocentric sport. And sometimes you can get really talented bodybuilders or people interested in physical fitness that don't have the ability to work with others. I'm very grateful in my life to have both the experience of team building exercise and team building discipline and individualism. So now, okay, bodybuilding is not the answer. Clearly, you know, football is not going to be the answer. You had been given up on baseball. So now what?

You take some odd jobs. You're a limo driver. You're a janitor. You do all these odd voice, I mean, you're a voice actor. So when did you decide to say you know what maybe pro wrestling maybe acting when did you come to that conclusion this was going to be john cena's path so the the wrestling thing happened by accident and i think as we just as we get thank you very much for all these questions as as i discuss what do i want to do with my life okay i think the most important message i could tell people out there is that you don't have to figure it out right away. I graduated from college and tried to apply my degree, my physical attributes, and what I was passionate about to make money. So when all this stuff started to fail, I began to be like, okay, I'm disciplined. I can show up

to work on time. Don't mind wearing a uniform. Don't mind being part of a team. I'll take the California Highway Patrol exam. I'll be a cop. Fail that, son of a bitch. So that's how it went. And as a young man, I'm like, man, I don't have many options that I think the work would be passionate about every day. Maybe the military. I say that in the utmost respect. I was a morning person.

I'd love to push my body beyond its capabilities. I love when the utmost respect. I was a morning person. I'd love to push my body beyond its capabilities. I love when the team wins. I want to be in a pool of people that I'm not the smartest person in the room. Love a uniform, get to travel the world, don't ever have to worry about pay. Like there's so many pluses to the military. And those were, as a young man, those are people I grew up idolizing. So I was like, man, I'll go join the Marines. And the weekend I was going to go from Los Angeles to San Diego to go join, my buddy was like, hey, man, you know we're training to be wrestlers down in Orange County. Do you want to try it out before you go?

Wow. You can do wrestling? Like, I didn't know there was a school. Right. I didn't know about it. It was very secret. And when we went down to see it, that's when it was like, oh, this is going to be my new hobby. I would work those odd jobs so I could do bodybuilding shows.

I would work those odd jobs so I could run speed camps to play football. Now I had a reason to work my odd jobs to do this hobby on the weekends. It's like many people have a job and they can't wait for weekends on the boat. My brother is the one I always use. Loves to work his job so he can spend weekends on the boat. The job is a way to do the thing that he loves. So it wasn't necessarily, I didn't do it to be like, this is how I'm going to make money.

It was like, yo, I love this. I'm going to make money doing the shitty work so I can have fun dressing up as a superhero on the weekends. Yeah. I almost, the same thing happened to me. I almost joined the military also. And then my brother came and talked me out of, I was going to join the air force. And then I was going to take the exam. He came home from college, said, look, go to Savannah state. And if you don't like it, say I went to school for a year. You didn't like it. It wasn't for me. Go to, you know, Hey, I went to Savannah state for a year and we it. It wasn't for me. Go to, you know, hey, I went to Savannah State for a

year and we know how that turned out for me. But I think something... Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season's all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, I am joined by the greatest alpine skier of all time, Michaela Schifrin. Michaela talks about the ski accident that changed everything for her, performing while going through grief, and what it's like to release the pressure of being the GOAT. And so much more. Like, I have no right to be winning this race. I really probably shouldn't even be doing it.

But I'm here, so I will win. Listen to this episode of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. app, Apple Podcasts, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Roderick from The Athletic, and of course,

Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day.

Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, like you said, when something is for you, when God has a plan for you, you might take a lot of different paths, but eventually you're going to get on the right track and it's going to find you. And I also, I agree with that. And I also want to say that sometimes you have to be brave enough to recognize when life puts an opportunity in front of you. Even though I had a plan and was

like, yo, this is the safest way forward, an opportunity was put in front of me. Yeah, I'm going to try that. So I think a lot of people sometimes aren't aware of when life will crack that door open just one bit. And I think if you can be aware of that and just give your whole heart and best to the situation, you don't know what can happen. Been hungry for some college football? Well, we finally get a taste this weekend. Don't miss any of the action.

Jump in at DraftKings Sportsbook. It's a small but mighty slate of games for week zero, including a big matchup in Ireland. This is going to be DraftKings' biggest college football season to date. Enjoy the ride now all the way through the expanded playoffs. Plus, all newbies getting into college football spirit, here's something special. New DraftKings customers can bet $5 to get $200 instantly in bonus bets. Score big with DraftKings all college football season long.

Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now and use code SHANNON. That's code SHANNON for new customers to get 200 in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks only at draft kings the crown is yours gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER in new york call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text hope and why at 467-369 in connecticut help is available for problem gambling call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. 18 and over in most eligible states, but age varies by jurisdiction. Eligibility restrictions apply. One per customer. Enter the Best Ball $15 million contest by 9524 to get one bonus entry. $20 entry fee required. Reward expires at contest lock on 9524. See terms at DraftKings.com slash DFS.

Since you were a limbo driver, let's just say for the sake of argument, there were Lyft, there were Uber and Lyft back then. What type of driver would John Singer be? The fucking worst. So this was pre-navigation, not even the stick on the windshield Magellan units. Pre-navigation. The meat is 90s so yes cell phones but mostly car phones and the the fees for a call were like 25 bucks a call you're absolutely right i have a randall mcnally map in my shotgun seat along with tuna rice and chicken and i'm in a town car not a limo that car smells all oh my god and i'm the byproduct of eating all that. So combine everything. The story tells itself. I'm from West Newberry, which is not Boston. It is a small town way outside of Boston.

In my childhood life, I've only been on one highway, Route 95. So in my mind, all roads lead to Route 95. I would pick people up for their flights like three hours late. What? Because I didn't know where the fuck I was going. And now as a traveler, if I booked a car and I'm always, you know, if I got to go at 10, I'm going to book it to be there at 7. Right. Because I want to make sure it's there early. But man, I feel for those travelers. I got called every name in the book.

I could barely get to the airport. I didn't know how to get people home. And the last thing you want to do after a long trip, you know, I'm finally going to keep my front door. And then you get in the car with the driver from hell where the car stinks. It's probably stinks like farts and tuna. He doesn't know where he's going. It's this huge hulking guy in a town guard. I think we're going the right way. I was the worst. I didn't last too long in that job. I read that you were also homeless. So what was your lowest moment? Before you finally had some success, what was your lowest moment, John? So I also want to put some context.

Okay, go ahead. I was homeless by choice. A lot of people are struggling with the inability to choose. My dad is fantastic and always has been great to all of his sons. And he's always been like, hey, you always got a roof over your head. You can always come home. But he also told me as I left for California from the mean street of West Newbury, you'll never make it. You'll be back in two weeks. So I don't know if he's a genius or he's just an asshole.

Right. But it worked. I didn't want to come home. He put pressure on you. So when all of my plans failed and all my resources were dwindling, again, I had a choice. Do I stay? And if I stay, this is going to be the roof over my head for a while. But I loved it. I parked my car in the parking lot of Gold's Gym, slept in the back, worked at the gym. So the gym was open at four. I'd go shower, use the locker room, clock

into work. On my break, I'd work out. The protein bar place is where I work, so I get a discount on all my supplements. Every once in a while, a five-finger discount. Thank you, Nutrition Club stores. I was well-fed. I got enough rest, and I was happy. And it was by choice. And this is a very fortunate story of being without a physical mailbox by choice. So I don't regret those days. And again, it was something that, I think the struggle is a lot more entertaining when you want to do it.

You know, a tough practice is more rewarding when you know this is the work I got to do to get the goal. And it was just one of those cases. So with that situation, you have very limited overhead. I did. I did. I was, uh, the company was operating at a loss and we were paying some heavy interest to the credit card holders at that point.

Yeah. So when, when did you, when did your break come? Uh, when, when the WWE called, it was then the WWF and said, we'd like you to give you a contract. Okay. WWE called, it was then the WWF, and said, we'd like to give you a contract. Okay. And that was when I went from working on the weekends to, or working during the week to dressing up on the weekends to being a professional.

Okay. It was a break, but my contract was for $12,500 a year. What? And my rent was for $12,000. No, my rent was $1,200 a month. So I quit my job immediately to become a professional. I was already operating at a loss. But the good thing about credit cards is they'll mail you more opportunities to get more credit cards. So I was just like, yeah, I'll just take more of the plastic pieces that get me free food and all that. This is going to be great.

So I bet on myself. And I knew that I couldn't juggle things. If I was going to do this, I was going to do it fully focused and wholeheartedly. And if I lost, it would be by my own choices. So I quit my job. I was upside down on a lot of bills and upside down on rent and stuff. But I got to go to every practice. I got to gain fluency really quick because I mashed in my 10,000 hours. So they gave me a small break, but a break nonetheless. And then about nine months after that, they moved me to middle America and I started wrestling in Kentucky, Anna for Ohio Valley wrestling. And then about a year later, by accident, I got on TV.

You got called up to the big time. Yeah. What was that moment? I mean, you mentioned a situation, John, that your dad, like, he was very proud of his five boys. You guys had done a lot. I'm sure he was proud of you. But he said that when you decided that you were going to move to California, he's like, you're not going to make it. When you had made it, did you call him and say, Dad, I made it?

You know what? No. And I still, I'm really working hard. And thank you very much for asking. I'm really working hard on building a great relationship with my dad. He just turned 80 and I love him. And we're starting to like dive into those moments. I can't wait to find out the answer to that question because I'm so happy with where we

are. Right. I think for so long, I wanted him to call me and be like, yo, you made it. But I still don't know if he was withholding his attaboy. So I kept going for some reason to maybe one, get it at the last moment. I don't know. The point is I've been able to work on self and let go of the need for his approval, which has been awesome because now we can just live as men and as peers and talk about our own life. I cannot wait to hear my dad's answer to that question, but I don't ever believe in making it. I don't ever believe

someone has made it. I believe you can close chapters in your life, and I believe that there are instances where it's time to move on. But in my perspective, it's like I try never to use the word deserve. Okay. I prefer the word earned. Because what the hell do I deserve? I wake up every day. That's fantastic.

And I try to earn the right to wake up every day. So I don't know. I think i'm worried that if i ever say to myself i've made it i will become complacent in life and i don't mean like not make a paycheck right i mean like not be curious about life i mean even coming into this place like wow this place is so great and i'm curious about the wallpaper and the fire and what this podcast is going to be wallpaper and the fire and what this podcast is going to be. I don't ever want to lose that. You know, when you, these are, dude, this is great. When you, when you left home and you said, okay, you and your dad have the relationship. You're not trying to recapture what was lost.

You're just trying to move on from this point and move forward. Man, that's a crazy thing about time. You can't, You can't fix what was happening. Yeah. And I think when you can get to a point to be like, let's say in forgiving my dad, first, I got to forgive myself. Yes. And I got to be okay with myself. And I think when you get to that point, then you're like, oh man, more than likely, although through my eyes, it looked like this was bad for me. More than likely, I know you. I've known you for 47 years. You more than likely were trying to do the best you could as a parent. I can't fault you for that, bud. So what do we do now?

Let's have a drink. Let's have a cigar. And hey, what was your college life like? What's the craziest thing you've ever done? What's the worst thing I've ever done to you? Stuff like that's going on now. Most of the time, John, people parent as if they were parented. And so maybe that's how his dad gave him tough, your grandfather gave your dad tough love. But you said something very interesting. My grandmother used to always tell me all the time, she'd say, son, there can never be freedom without forgiveness. I'm a strong advocate of that, and that's the first time I've heard it.

I think once you get to the ability where you can genuinely forgive, that doesn't mean you need to forget. No. When you can forgive, you literally free yourself of whatever the burden is that's on your shoulders. That's very profound. I'm a believer. Forgiveness is not for the person that you feel, and I don't know if you feel this, and I'm just saying for context here. Forgiveness is not for the person that you feel. And I don't know if you feel this and I'm just saying for context here, forgiveness is not for the person that you feel that have wronged you. Forgiveness is for you. Yes. Because you're the one, your feelings, your emotions are being held hostage. They're living their life. They might not even know that

you're wrong. They might not even know. Like I, again, I can't wait to have this conversation with my dad. Do you know that I've been looking for a good job for like 30 years? I never knew, dude. It's one of those things where because we are at times uncomfortable talking about our feelings, we don't talk about stuff. So how can someone know? You know, they're probably just trying to do the best they can. You are a rapper.

You sold 140,000 copies your first week. You debuted at number 15 on the Billboard 200. But that album is gone platinum. One point three million copies to this day. Did you did you think. Come on. That was it. Did you think that was possible? There's there's nothing about the current state of of being. Yeah. You don't strike me as M&E, huh? No. But this is what I will say. Okay.

Super passionate about hip hop. Hip hop, that was why I was bullied. As a callback to the story, because in white, small town West Newbury, you wore jeans, shit-kicking boots, you drove a pickup truck, and you listened to country music or rock music. Okay. I had a high-top fade.

I wore rayon polka dots, wingtips, or Adidas. I had airbrushed overalls. I wore that shit backwards. Rap music found me, and it was rap then. It wasn't hip-hop, and it evolved to hip-hop. But rap music found me because it was rebellious. Keep in mind, I was one of five boys, and I had a lot of angst with how the household was rebellious. And keep in mind, I was one of five boys. And I had a lot of angst with how the household was being run.

I was a rebel. That music found me at the right time. So even though a song like Fuck the Police might have been an anthem for the state of the social well-being in South Central Los Angeles, to a 13-year-old kid, the police were my parents. And it was me being like, fuck that were my parents. And it was me. Fuck that.

And it grabbed a hold of like, it really spoke to me. Like the, just, um, just the way the music was. And in the rebelliousness, I also caught all other rap music. Like I would listen to Kwame and I would listen to rock him and,

and Nas and the beastie boys. And my first CDs were the Beastie Boys and the Fat Boys and like Cool Moe D and the list goes on and on. Like it was a part of me. And when I got to showcase that on television, it resonated with the audience. So again, this was life putting an opportunity in my lap. I'm like, hey, great. I'm connecting with the audience. I can keep my job that I love. And maybe I can make better music than the stock rap music that they're making for me in Connecticut. Because at the time, WWE was a rock and roll company. They didn't have any depth of field for hip hop. And I listened to my own music being like, I could do better than

this. It wasn't, how do I measure up against Eminem? I think if it was the case, I never would have made an album. But it was like, yo, I can do better than this. Called up a friend who knew a friend who had a studio. We got some beats and we made an album. Wow. And that was it. That was it.

And it never once was it like, how is this going to measure up? It was simply the current product that I have, I can do better than that. Right. So as far as that, I measure up better have. I can do better than that. Right. So as far as that, I measure up better than that. You did better than that. So let's just see where it goes. So when it comes out, so now you're an athlete, you're a rapper. Give me your top three athlete rappers. You get Shaq, Time, which is Deion Sanders, Roy Jones Jr., Dame Lillard, Master P, Kobe.

You only get three. Master P, Kobe, and Shaq. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season's all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them coach, the expert. My next season's all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family.

I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, I am joined by the greatest alpine skier of all time, Michaela Schifrin. Michaela talks about the ski accident that changed everything for her, performing while going through grief, and what it's like to release the pressure of being the GO the goat and so much more.

Like I have no right to be winning this race. I really probably shouldn't even be doing it, but I'm here, so I will win. Listen to this episode of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes.

We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claibon, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl.

I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal, every day. Subscribe today, and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. Yeah. Shaq's got skills, man. I did carpool karaoke with him. Oh, yeah. He can flow. He can still flow. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, he's good. Yeah, he got a good head. He's got skills man I did carpool karaoke with him oh yeah he can flow he can still flow oh yeah for sure yeah yeah he's good yeah he got a good he's got doctorate he's smart so give me your Mount Rushmore your all your favorite your greatest who you think the greatest

four rappers are in the history so for me um Jay-Z Eminemem, Nas, and Rakim. Wow. And man, Rakim's voice and I like, like, I'm, everyone has their bias. And I know that list is obviously going to incite riots. We all have our bias. We all have our favorites. That's what makes music special.

That's what makes creativity special. I was brought up in like the East Coast, boom bap. I love wordplay. I love poetry. It's what I based my character on, so I think all that's super clever. And that's my list. So when John is driving around in his car,

who are you listening to today? I have come a long way. I'm no longer a bodybuilder. I just want to preface that. OK. Sometimes chapters can close. I'm going to retire this year from wrestling. That chapter's going to close.

Yes. I listen to nothing. Really? I am a huge car guy. So when I get to drive, it's kind of my chance to meditate. OK. I always try to drive something manual with a stick shift. And I always just listen to the car, man.

Really? Yeah. And that could be like I I had one rare day off and you you had mentioned that there's a rare I think we work in the same dimension. Yes I drove around the state of florida Just for shits and giggles. I did 880 miles. I left my house in tampa Went to orlando went around the thumb went back up up, went back down. And as soon as I pulled in my garage, I'm like, whoa, 880 miles. Not too bad. So you just got in the car one day. It's like, you know what? Hey, I'm going to do this. Yeah. I haven't driven in a while. I haven't taken a trip in a while. I want to be. And not once did I turn on the radio. I left at 430 in the morning. I pulled in my garage at 1030 at night, stopped for like three or four. I love

little coffee shops. Right. Stopped for like three or four, I love little coffee shops. Right. Stopped for like three or four coffees on the way. Did you talk to anybody? Did you turn the phone off? At the coffee shops, talk to people. In the car, not one phone call, not one text. Phone was in the backseat, power off.

And it was, it's like my way to meditate. So what do I listen to in the car? Nothing. Boring. Nothing. There was a big rap battle going on this summer. Yes. Kendrick Lamar. Yes drake yes who won i

know nothing about this you don't know anything all i know is the headlines i'm the one person the one breathing human being who did not hear bar one of this i haven't heard any music any tracks nothing so this is all new to me who won man i'm won and why man they just started out i was like man i love this guy but just just on pure vlog just play drake they play it all the time if there's not going to be a game a football game a basketball game or anything that you go to where the home team is winning where you're not going to hear it. They're not like us. I'm excuse me. Kendrick Lamar.

Yes. Kendrick one. Okay. So because just, I mean, it's the most, isn't it the most played this in history already? I think it's done.

It's the biggest song this summer. I need to check this out. I've been living in under a rock. I need to check this out. Yeah. All right. Kendrick Lamar. Right on. Who of your current this out. Yeah. All right. Kendrick Lamar, right on. Who of your current rappers go on the list?

You've got Kendrick Lamar. You've got Drake. I mean, you've got these young, you know, five babies. I kind of. Little Big, Duh. I kind of drifted away from hip hop right around Drake. And I think I always thought Drake was extremely talented. Again, I love wordplay.

I think his stuff is very well thought out. I think he's very poetic. I like the way he adds music into the songs. I don't have enough depth of field to evaluate anybody current. He was like the last one where it becomes fade to nothingness. Right. Well, you mentioned it earlier. This is your final year in WWE.

Is it? 2025. 2025. This is it, man. Yeah. And so when you look at farewells i mean kobe got a farewell kareem got a farewell i mean everybody's waiting for lebron to get his farewell uh i think the thing is tom brady didn't get that because we didn't really know tom was going to retire he just like okay i'm done now what what do you hope what do you want your farewell what do you want the lasting memories of your last year in the wwe what do you hope? What do you want your farewell? What do you want the lasting memories of your last year in the WWE? What do you want that to be? That's a great question.

Personally, I would like to just want it to be worth it. And I don't mean that I won't get value from it. I'll enjoy every second. I just want to justify it. Like, I hope it is good for WWE business. I hope it continues to build the future of the brand and company. I hope that the events are satisfying for the audiences. From an audience perspective, I hope everyone can come to these events

and either relive memories they might have had over the past 23 years or make new memories because there's a whole new generation of superstars out there. So if a young kid who is all he's seen in programming is maybe Roman Reigns and Cody Rhodes, if his dad brings him in and be like, hey, son, 10 years ago, this was the guy. Right. Look at him. He can still go like this is my guy and the son's like no this is my guy i've heard so many stories from families about like hey one time my dad took me to wrestling we watched you now i'm a grown man and i realized that that was my way of

my dad bonding with me thank you for that so like if the tour can do that, that's awesome. And I don't see, you have a 0% chance of doing that if you just say, I'm done. We're not pure sport. The benefit of what we do is we're sports entertainment. So I can be like, ah, you know, the body doesn't feel, I have a choice. I could hang around for another 10 years and do like a match a year and maybe progressively get worse with my skillset or take an honest look at myself and be like, I can do like 30, 40 dates this year, make it a thing, tell everybody this is it, which it is, be able to close the chapter in my life, move on to things that I'm curious and enthusiastic about and hopefully create some moments and let people take away from it, whatever they want. I just, I want it to be

worth it. What would it mean for you? You're tied currently with Ric Flair, 16 time world champ to get number 17. Who would you like to fight? The Rock, Randy Orton, Logan Paul, CM Punk, Cody Rose, Roman Reigns. Who would you like to fight that match to win the title? Roman Reigns, who would you like to fight that match to win the title? So I think that's a thing because of the legacy that Ric Flair has. And certainly I've been fortunate enough to win. You ain't been to beat down Ric Flair, are you? I personally know Ric. He has a good chance of winning that fight.

I don't know if that's going to happen. I think what's interesting about the tour is there are some jackpot long shot scenarios where it can happen. But to win a number one contendership in a story driven purpose, you have to earn it. Right. I had my chances.

I've been a part timer now since like 2018. That's six years. Right. I've had my chances of coming back and being like i want you in a match i haven't won a match since 2018 wow that's a that's a that's a slump that's a lot of ale step one i need to bust the slump right so with all of those things into play i don't want it like i said i want it to be worth it to the audience so if i come back and push the champion and be like you and me in a match the audience will So if I come back and push the champion and be like, you and me in a match,

the audience will immediately see through that as he just bumped his way to the front of the line. And the guy I watch every week who's earned that spot, he just took it away from that stupid. Right. If I win the Royal rumble, I get an automatic chance. There have been stakes put on the elimination chamber, or if I win that I might get an automatic chance at a championship. The money in the bank suitcase is a suitcase for a championship match anytime, anywhere. So that's, what's cool about doing it over a year. There are these lottery chances where I can be like,

yo, he may break the record. If that's even an option, I got to start winning in January and I might earn a shot by December. Wow. And at that point, I don't give a fuck who it's with as long as I can just get a chance. Right. But I also, having been that point, I don't give a fuck who it's with, as long as I can just get a chance. But I also, having been that champion, I respect the process, and I don't ever want to take somebody's spot, man.

I don't ever want to take somebody's spot, you know? Triple H said, you're the GOAT. I had Ric Flair on here. He said Shawn Michaels is the GOAT. Who's John Cena GOAT of WWE? Gosh, that's a good question. You know, and I think that's what's interesting. I can

name my top four hip-hop artists because I have no skin in the game. This is a tough one to answer because I have so much professional respect for so many names. Like, I have so much respect for Rick. Like, an ungodly amount of respect for Rick.

If you're my age or close to my age, he's it. And then if you're my age, and you, one, are able to compete with him and perform with him, and two, you're around rick and you listen to what those matches were his travel schedule the sacrifices he made the investment he had his passion that's like whoa man you are fucking all about this but as i'm also enamored by the business side, and I don't think there's a better breathing example of what's the best the business has ever been than Roman Reigns. And it's amazing that I'm saying a still active talent with years in front of him is the greatest of all time. Wow. But he's been in it since 2012.

I had to work my way up. I started on the bench and then got onto the Saturday program and then just lost every match. He came in with the shield in a really high level spot and never wavered. Even when the fans didn't like him, he was still in a main event spot. He's been in a main event lens for over a decade now and he's brought through his clock and you can say whatever force has helped it but in 2012 we were the stock was trading at 11 bucks wwe or tko stocks now at 117 wow that's on his shoulders there isn't a better indication of and i know it's a team effort nobody does it alone but like when you say, hey, that to me is like, that's some serious shit. And for me, I got to give her respect where respect is due. And Joe's smart, passionate about the business, multi-generational athlete,

has respect for his family, has respect for the locker room, has respect for the business. He's not, he's just, he's a very, very smart performer and somebody I respect. He would be my greatest of all time. You follow the path, you get The Rock. Yeah, Rock would be second because Rock did the same thing in the 90s. But this is the one time I can say this

because Rock's numbers are always number one. Roman's numbers have been better than duane's but i mean gosh that's that's a that's like this big you know yeah this concludes the first half of my conversation part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to part one on just simply go back to club shea profile and i'll see you there hey there it's michael lewis arthur going infinite money ball the blind side and liars poker on the latest season of the club's Shae Shae profile, and I'll see you there. the rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, I am joined by the greatest alpine skier of all time, Michaela Schifrin. Michaela talks about the ski accident that changed everything for her, performing while going through grief, and what it's like to release the pressure of being the GOAT, and so much more. Like, I have no right to be winning this race. I really probably shouldn't even be doing it,

but I'm here, so I will win. Listen to this episode of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media

like Colleen Wolf. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.