Club Shay Shay - Magic Johnson

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

Shannon sits down with Lakers legend Earvin "Magic" Johnson for an in-depth conversation on the Basketball-Great's career and the biggest stories surrounding the NBA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. For some former NFL players, a new faith provides answers. You mix homesteading with guns and church. Voila! You got straightway. They try to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You regret some things in life.

I regret not calling LeBron, telling him I was stepping down. Right. I really regretted that. Right. I've been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got to roll the dice. That's why. All my life. I've been grinding all my life. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Che Che. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Che Che and the guy that's stopping by for conversation and a drink today. Ladies and gentlemen, he doesn't need any introduction, but I'll give him one anyway. He's a 10-time NBA champ, five as a player, five as an owner executive, a three-times finals MVP, a three-times NBA MVP, 12-time All-Star,

two-time All-Star game MVP, nine-time All-NBA first team, an Olympic gold medalist, two-time Basketball Hall of Fame inductee, member of the 75th anniversary team and the 50th anniversary team, NCAA champion, NCAA Final Four most outstanding player, Mr. Basketball in the state of Michigan. He's a leader, a father, a philanthropist, an entrepreneur, a dreamer, a fighter. I've run out of words to describe who he is. Irving Magic Johnson, but you can call him Magic.

Magic, how you doing, bro? Oh, I'm doing great, Shannon. Thank you for having me on. You know we've been trying to hook this up, so I'm glad. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been in the making for two years. Now, the man told me, I think I asked him at the end of 2020, we were in the pandemic. He said, when we get out of this pandemic, I'm going to come see you.

Okay, I saw him at the beginning of 2021. He said, I ain't forgot about you now. I did not forget about you. I said, okay, okay, man. So here we are in 2022. I saw him in the gym. I said, he said, talk to my assistant. We're going to get it done. I saw him in the gym. I said, he's saying, talk to my assistant. We're going to get it done.

I saw her. We were talking. I saw her about, we saw each other about three months ago. I said, Magic said he's going to get me done. He said, well, he's going on a vacation. And when he gets back, I said, he just got back from a vacation. He's going out again. Like, yeah, yeah, he's going out again.

But thanks. Hey, thanks for your time today. My pleasure, brother. How you doing? I'm doing great, man. Everything going out again. But thanks for your time today. My pleasure, brother. How you doing? I'm doing great, man. Everything going very well. So tell me about this month-long vacation. How long have you been doing it?

And what made you decide to say, you know what? I need a vacation for a month. Most people take a week, maybe two. You do a month. This year might have been two months. Well, Shannon, I worked so hard. Right. And I said to my wife, Cookie, I said, we went on vacation for two weeks, right?

Right. Yep. And I said, man, it's not enough. So the next year we did three weeks. Okay. I said, man, it's not enough. So I said, four weeks. He said, oh man, we did that for about five years.

And I said, that's not enough. So we started doing now five weeks. It's like, oh man, we did that for about five years. And I said, that's not enough. So we started doing now five weeks, but the blessing is we've been going to Europe for 31 years. Wow. And so that's our annual trip. I believe if I get everything that I want and I know the place, why not just keep going back? Do you go back to the same place? A lot of the same places and some new places in Europe. I'm saying 31 years, that's a long time to go so you've seen damn near everything over in Europe. What haven't you seen? And it's about that, but also I love Italian food. Go to Italy, you get the best man. You get the best. You know it's amazing. I gotta stay on my workout, though.

But tell us about the lottery that you have, that every year you have different couples go along with you. I've seen L.L. and his family go. I've seen Samuel Jackson and his family go. I think Rodney and Holly Peet went along with you. So how do you come up with this lottery? That's good, Chad. Nobody's ever said that. I'ma use that one. Well it's really my wife, right?

She says, okay baby, what we wanna do? Hey, it's on you. We go with couples that we have something in common, that we can have a lot of fun with. Conversations. That's right. That's right. Watch movies with. Because on a yacht, you spend a lot of close with. Conversation. That's right. That's right. Watch movies with. Because on a yacht, you spend a lot of close time together. Ain't nobody going nowhere.

Ain't no walks. No. So we know them, all of them, Rodney and Holly, Sam and Latonya Jackson. And like you said, LL and his wife, Simone. So we know them very well. They know us. So it's easy to go on a trip with them and spend a lot of quality time with them as well. I just saw on Showtime you guys had the anniversary

where you guys reunited with the Showtime Lakers. How did that come about? Well, Shannon, it was funny because I called Coach Riley and said, listen, man, we got to do the Showtime reunion. Right. Only thing we haven't done is gotten together. Right. So he said, Buck, you know, everybody call me Buck.

Buck, go ahead and put it together. So I said, cool, I got it. Okay. I got it. Okay. So I called my staff together and said, we're going to do the Showtime reunion. The Lakers always trained in Hawaii, so we're going to go to Hawaii because that's Dr. Buck's favorite place.

Okay. Called the hotel, got the Four Seasons on board, got American Airlines on board. So we got all these different companies on board. And then called the guys, man. They all went crazy. And Shannon, it was the best time. It was emotional. It was gratifying.

It was everything all in one. And then when we got on the bus one more time, this is crazy. You know how this is. Everybody got their favorite seat. Right, right. Guess what? Everybody went back to the same seat. That's when I said, oh, this is awesome. It has been 35, 40

years since that. That's right. And then I had made sure we had the uniform, so they had their number, their name on it. And man, we went into the gym. Hey, we were missing more shots than we were making. But you know what, Magic? As you guys have gone about your separate ways, you don't get an opportunity to reconnect.

That's right. I mean, early on when you retire, you see each other all the time. But now as you become fathers, I mean grandfathers, some great-great-grandfathers, you've kind of moved about your different ways. Some people are over here in Georgia or wherever. So to get back together, there's something about a bond in a championship team. You can play together, but that bond,

because you know what it took in order for you to win that championship. There was a lot of sacrifices a lot of guys had to make and to come back and relive that moment. Man, you remember we was on that bus and we was going to Boston. You remember we was on that bus and we was playing Detroit. That's it right there. It was a storytelling.

Right. You know, going back 30 years ago and what happened, we were telling all the stories. Some have changed because, you know, we put a little extra on it. Right. Lying a little, but it was so much fun, man. And then we had karaoke night every single night.

I can't sing, but I was up there singing. But Byron Scott can sing. But we had a ball, man, just a week just spending time together. And you're right. A lot of guys live on the East Coast, so I didn't see them for 30 years, 25 years. So it was just a wonderful time. I'm glad I did it. I'm glad Coach Riley and I came together so we could put this together for the Showtime Lakers.

Talk to me about Coach Riley because I mean, everybody that I've heard talk about him, man, he tough. He no nonsense. They call him Mafia. They call him Mafia Pat Riley. What's your take? How was he as a coach, Magic?

He was, what you just said, he was a tough coach. Only, hey, I want you to come in here and give 150%. And he was a detail-oriented dude. Right. We were so prepared for our opponent. Right. Because he went over everything, whether that was rebounding, defense, offensively, what we're going to do to attack their defense.

Also, too, mentally. He believed in mental toughness. Right. He didn't want nobody. If you weren't mentally tough, you couldn't play for Pat Riley and the Lakers. Right. Right? And so he believed in that.

And then one thing he was great at, identifying talent, letting that talent play. Right. And not overcoaching. Okay. See, he let you go. Right. He said, Buck, I don't want you to look at me.

Call the plays. Right. He said, but I want you running. This was his whole thing, Shannon. They may not get tired in the first quarter. Right. They may not get tired in the second quarter. But if we keep running, in the third quarter,

they're going to be hanging on their shorts. But you know, Magic, in order for them to be hanging on their shorts, that means you had to be in camp and in practice. You guys had to go to that next level in order to get them tied late in the ball game. He ran us so hard. The first hour of practice was all running. All running. All conditioning.

And, man, so when we got to the game. The game was easy. Man, the game was so easy. And I had, so when we got to the game. The game was easy. Man, the game was so easy. And I had Michael Cooper guard me every single practice. So when I saw somebody guard me on the other team, I was like, man, you easy. Right. So when people talk about, like, the greatest teams, obviously your Showtime Lakers come up.

They talk about the Bulls in the 90s. All of a sudden I'll now the Warriors of 2018 with Kevin Durant. The Celtics that you great, and we're going to get into those. Where would you rank your Showtime Lakers? Oh, we're definitely one of the greatest teams ever because we had everything. We could do everything. And that's, when

you got a guy like Kareem that can dominate inside. Right. James Worthy. Oh, man. On the break. Yes. And then you got the shooters and Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, and we had the defensive mentality as well. We can defend you and then get out and run

so we can score inside, outside, and on the break. Right. That's hard to defend. And we had the coach because Pat Riley to me, the best coach that's ever lived, but he could make in-game adjustments that were critical, right? And also he motivated you. So this man could take us and we could play against anybody and win.

Because you guys were running, and when you think Showtime Lakers, you don't think physical. When you think bad boy Piston, the first thing that comes to your mind, okay, they're physical. That's right. But you guys, you don't think physical. When you think bad boy Piston, the first thing that comes to your mind, okay, they're physical. That's right. But you guys, you had to match that mentality. The Celtics, we don't think about the Celtics, but the Celtics was a physical, a big physical

team. That's right. They've had those three imposing they had Bird, McHale, and Parrish. Seven-foot Parrish, six-nine McHale, six-nine Bird. That front line was ginormous, but they were physical bunk with DJ. And still the greatest front line we've ever probably seen in basketball, right? They were physical, and also they were smart.

The Celtics were not going to beat themselves. You had to beat them, right? And then to Isaiah and his bad boy Pistons, I don't think there's ever been a more physical team than them. They imposed their will on you. Right. Right? They beat you up, man.

Right. And if you flinched, it was over for you. Right. So in 88, when we played them, it was a physical matchup, seven-game series. We won in game seven. But the next year, in 89, they came back and beat us. Right. And they could do things very few teams could do.

They could be physical, and then they had that three-headed monster, Isaiah Joe Dumars and Vinny Johnson. Right. You couldn't do nothing. And I'm not even talking about John Sally and Rodman. They have a horn, the first year in Lambert. That's right. When they brought that specific style, football, to the basketball court,

did you think that was basketball? Yes. Only because Isaiah and Joe still had finesse. Right. Was it tough to play against it? Of course. Right. But, you know, give them credit.

They won back-to-back championships. Correct. I never take anything away from a champion. Right. But, you know, give them credit. They won back-to-back championships. Correct. I never take anything away from a champion. Right. And so they proved that style can win. Right. And they won with it.

And so give them credit. And to me, one of the greatest teams as well. Because defensively, I don't know if we've seen a better team than the Pistons. Right. You went to nine finals in 12 years. And we've seen teams that when they start going to finals, we see when the Warriors, they went to those finals, the guys started the injuries. You know,

Clay Hurt got hurt. KD got hurt. When you go to nine, did you feel that took some of your years off your career? Going to so many finals because it was tough. Oh, yeah. Every single year. And a lot of times you were going seven games, you were going deep. That's right. No, no.

It had to. We're playing more games than any other team, right? And so when you add the regular season and then you add up the playoff games as well every year. And then we were also professional. So we only took probably two or three weeks off and then we were right back training. So when I played,

I trained all the time. My coach, Pat Riley, had to call me and say, stop training. You're going to burn yourself out. But I didn't know nothing else. I always wanted to come in camp in shape instead of using camp to get in shape. But let me ask you a question. When you say training,

obviously you see these guys now, they're doing a lot of these drills. But a lot of your training was open run. That's right. You were actually playing the game of basketball. That's right. It wasn't so much drills like these guys are doing now. No.

No. And I think for me, I'm so happy I played five on five. Okay. So that's what Isaiah would call, man, we're playing in the summer league in Chicago. We're going to run for two weeks. I'm there. Okay. So I went to Chicago, played in the summer league in Chicago. We're going to run for two weeks. I'm there. Okay. So I went to Chicago, played in the summer league for two weeks.

Right. Then Dominique would call and say, hey, we're playing in Atlanta. Come on to the summer league there. So we spent two weeks with Dominique. Right. Playing in the Atlanta summer league. Right. And then.

That was before the NBA had a summer league. That might have been why the NBA got a summer league. That's right. That's why. Them gyms were packed, man. All those guys in there, professionals playing in a summer league. That might have been why the NBA got a summer league. That's right. That's why. Them gyms were packed, man. All those guys in there, professionals playing in the summer league. And then we would come to Detroit and Lansing, where I'm from, and we would play in the summer.

So we played all the time. Right. And we even barnstormed sometimes as well. Went to a lot of cities that didn't have an NBA team. Memphis, Birmingham. And we would just play five on five and people would come out and see us play. I want to

go to something forward. We're going to go back, but I want to go to something forward. Russell Westbrook from L.A. Started OKC, goes to Houston, goes to Washington. His dream after seeing Kobe and Shaq hold up the trophies, he's been a lifelong Laker fan. He comes here and is not going according to plan.

And I think there's no greater person to speak to this than to you. You've gotten booed twice in L.A. That's right. You win the championship and all of a sudden you and the coach, for whatever reason, you guys can't get along. And then the second time happened in 1984. They gave you a nickname. Right.

Tragic Magic. Even after two finals MVP. Right. Even after going to all those finals, this is what they bestowed upon you. If you can, if you, if Russell Westbrook was sitting down right here, what advice would you give him?

First, take accountability. Okay. That's number one. Okay. If I don't play well, say I don't play well. All right. You know, when I didn't perform well in 84 against the Celtics right. I admitted that I took

accountability right said hey I didn't perform well I was the reason why the Lakers lost okay Aries and I had to say to myself I got to get better right what did I do I went out was that whole summer. I trained hard got better and then we played them again in 85. Next season. Right, man. I was on fire. We won. No, you didn't hear that no more. Right. Same thing with Coach Westhead went after he got fired. They booed me for about a month. So because that was the first time magic because magic

say, you know, a I can't play with this guy. Magic. Your boy need to go out of here. Hey. Couldn't coach man. Just just he slowed us down. We were a running team. Right. But he wanted to slow the pace down and we're not a a dominant. You're not a walking the ball up. That's right. That's right. Half court team. We're running and gunning team. So, I got booed. So, I told coach Riley, I said, oh, I'm about to turn it up. I must have went for about 10 triple

doubles, right? And all of a sudden, you stop hearing them boos. And then we end up winning the championship that same year. See? And so that's what Russell got to do. Quit trying to fight the media. Quit

trying to fight the fans and just say, you know what, I didn't play well, but I'm going to play better. Right. And go out there on the court and perform. Right. That's how you stop all the things that's going on. But you can't do it by trying to combat them. Right.

And trying to be mad at the fans or at the media because the media got a job. Correct. And their job, if you're not playing well, they're going to say it. Right. And I didn't mind them taking shots at me in 84 because I didn't play well. And the thing is with the Lakers, Magic, and you know this, is that the fans know good basketball. Oh, no question. It ain't about – and the fans, this is what I say about the fans at Lakers

and for being out here for six years. It doesn't matter what you did somewhere else. No. You need to do that for us. That's right. For us to cheer you and to love you did somewhere else. No. You need to do that for us. That's right. For us to cheer you and to love you, do that. Get 100 triple-doubles for us. That's right.

Like you did those other teams. LeBron had to find that out. Yes, yes. And remember when he first came, everybody was still talking about Kobe. Oh, wait a minute. And they wouldn't let you put no murals up. That's right. Remember that?

So what did LeBron do? Let me come in here and turn it out. Turn it out. Let me win the championship. All that's gone. Right. Right. He's beloved now. But Russell, we know championship basketball here. We know winning basketball. So listen, just come in, do your job. And if you don't play well, accept that. But say it. Right. And then come back and hopefully play better the next time.

Right. And then the fans will respect you for that. Right. Right? They respected me when I said I didn't play well. Right. Right? But I'll be back.

They wanted to hear you say that. That's right. They didn't want to hear you say, well, this team, they played so much better. You're like, no, the ball's in my hands. I've got to play better. I'm the quarterback. That's better. You're like, no, the ball's in my hands. I've got to play better. I'm the quarterback. That's right. You're the point guard.

The ball is in your hand. You're the floor general. You got to make better decisions. You got to make them layups. You know, you got to hit your shot. Right. And then you got to play hard. See, where Laker fans get mad, last season,

we were down there arguing with the referees right and they were down there dunking on right. We can't we can't take them to can't stand that right no bus your butt to get back. Try to stop them when it's a timeout now talk to the referee right right. I never did that not one time always even if a bad call I'm running back right. Right. Because I got to help my teammates. Correct. You know, we're trying to win.

And then when the whistle blows, now I can say, hey, now I'm going to need that call. Now, so you gave that call to them down there on that end. Now I'm going to need that same call. And that's all you got to do. See, it's another thing. You can't show them up like this. Yes. And hold your hands up like this.

Or wave them off. That's right. That's right. You got to get over there. Hey, man, you missed that one. You missed that one. Right. You owe me one. Right. Everybody. The greatest individual rivalry in basketball. You and Larry. Mm hmm. Proudest. Proud to that NCAA tournament.

Still with the most watched NCAA finals game in NCAA history. How much did you know about Larry Bird prior to that game? Well, Shannon, the summer before, they had the WIT tournament. Okay. And they brought all the best college players together to play against the world. Okay.

And man, I see this guy, you know, blonde hair, you know. All right, let me see guy, you know, blonde. I'm saying, all right, let me see if he can play. Okay. Man, I'm sitting there watching him shoe shining. He must have made 30 in a row all knit. So he was step curve before step wave before step. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm sitting there saying, whoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo.

This dude can play. Okay. You know, brothers, we always say, okay, can the white dude really play? Correct. So then I said, oh, man, he a bad boy. Right. Then we got in the game. Jack Gibbons was player of the year that year.

Right. He tore him up, man. Jack Gibbons from Kentucky? Kentucky. Because they won the national championship at the same date. That same time. Yeah, yeah, okay. Man, Larry Bird was taking it to him.

I said, oh, man, I'm calling back home saying, oh, he for real. He for real. This new Larry Bird? Right. Oh, he got it. He can play. He's dominating Jack Kevin. And they said, no way.

I said, oh, yeah, he's dominating. So here we go six, seven months later. Right. We're playing in the NCAA championship game. He's player of the year Sports Illustrated all the magazines got he on the cover right and I said wow and that 33 and 033 though Man, I said, oh it hadn't been ranked since that's And we we put two guys on and we double-teamed him right we knew we could beat him cuz Greg Kelser He was a superstar in college. Yeah, Greg was dominant. That was first really the first time I started seeing alley-oop

Yeah, cuz you got you got you got brought there cuz hey you come down to court. You know That was so great. Oh, it was sweet man, and and he could just jump out to Jim and Control his body. Right. And he had a phenomenal college career. Right. So we figured two stars could beat one. Right.

That's what happened. You come into the NBA because back then people don't realize this. They could draft you a year early. He went back to school. The Celtics took Larry with the six pick, if I'm not mistaken, in 78. The year before. Right. And He went back to school. The Celtics took Larry with the sixth pick, if I'm not mistaken, in 78. The year before. Right. And he went back to school. That's right. And so they still own this draft

right. Yep. So you guys, so you guys have this. Okay. How fitting. He goes to the Celtics. You go to the Lakers. And we know this rivalry in the 60s. That was the basketball. And so now, did you have any idea that you guys were going to put basketball the NBA back on the map and you're going to redefine what the NBA was?

No, Shannon, we didn't know. But what we just did was just played our game. Okay. We ended up in the two most famous, you know, franchises. Right. The Celtics and the Lakers. And then his personality was Boston. My personality was Hollywood.

Right. I mean, they couldn't have scripted this any better. No. And then, you know, I'm playing with Kareem and all the guys. And who would ever thought that my first final of my rookie season, we're on tape delayed. Yeah. The finals.

Yeah, that's what people don't realize. The game weren't live. No, no. Tape delayed. Tape delayed. I could go play and go home and watch myself play that night. Yeah. Right?

must have played. That night. And so we actually brought the finals and all the other games to primetime TV. Larry and I changed the whole league and also too, every other year

the Lakers would win or the Celtics would win. The Lakers would win or the Celtics would win. So it was just great. And I'm glad that we came in together because I had somebody to measure myself. Right. And say, hey, OK, he's great. I can't let him get too far ahead of me. I got to work hard because I want to stay in. your relationship? Obviously, you beat him in the NCAA Finals in 79, but how was your relationship once you got to the NBA? Because I think the thing was, he was rookie of the year. I think you got like one or two votes.

That's all. That's all. I think it was like 32, 33 to like one or two. No, even more than that, it was 60-something to like two. I hate to say that, too. I gotta say that on TV. And so, I was pissed, man. I was mad. You're like, hold on.

I led a team to the NBA, and I couldn't get but two votes. Two votes. Became the first rookie in NBA history to be named finals MVP. I was only the third dude ever in NBA history to go from the college championship to the NBA finals championship. Right. And so I get like two votes. And they were two L.A. dudes.

So, you know, I'm like, okay, he's not that much better than me. Right. Not 63 to 2. Right. But, okay, I took it. I took it. But our relationship, Shannon, was fractured because Celtics-Lakers. Right.

See, we hated them. They hated us. Right. So we could never be free. Right, right. And Pat Riley stressed that. Right. He said, I don't want, if a Celtic go to the ground,

you better not pick him up. Right. And so we had to hate them to beat them. Right. Right? Right. It wasn't until 87, I went out. Converse wanted to do a commercial with both of us.

I flew out to Frenslick, Indiana, where he from. The weapons, the cons. Exactly. So he had the black one, I had the purple and gold one. So we shot about half the commercial, a little bit more, and it's lunchtime, so I'm thinking I'm going to my trailer, cause we really haven't broken bread before like this.

So as I'm taking about three steps toward the trailer, he said, Magic, man, I'd like you to have lunch with me up at the house. My mom has prepared lunch. He threw the mom, you know mom. You know I can't say no. You can't say no. He threw the mom in there. So I go to the house, you know, and he's down there.

I'm down here. She's bringing out all the dishes. And she brought that last one and set it down. And she hit him and said, did you tell him yet? And Larry said, no, Mom, you tell him. She turned and said, Magic, you my favorite basketball player. And I just said, oh, man. Thank you, my brother.

That was it. And then we started talking. Right. Like two little boys. Right. And, you know, we're similar. We grew up poor. We're both from the Midwest.

We love the game. We love to win, you know, on and on and on. And that's when our friendship evolved and grew. And we've been friends ever since. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed

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This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast leave the nbu lead the nba with 11.2 assists per game here's some of the records that you have

in the playoffs finals you have the finals 21 assists in a finals game 2300 and over 2300 assists for the playoffs only player to average 12 or 7 or 12 assists in NBA Finals and you did that six times Playoff single game high of 24 only player to have a triple double in multiple series in Game clinching game when you look back over your career. Do you think like? I Don't know if these records. I don't know. I don't know if anybody's gonna ever get 2300 assists might yeah I don't know if somebody records. I don't know. I don't know if anybody will ever get 2300 assists might. Yeah, I don't know if somebody will get to it.

A 24th in a playoff game. Yeah, it's awesome. I I've been blessed, you know, and Shannon, I just played to win and right. So my job was to set up my teammates put them in a position that they could be successful and succeed and and that mean that meant that we were going to win. Right. Right? You name all these things, I don't know.

I know that I did my job and I did it well. Right. The main thing for me is that we won those five championships, we went to the finals, like you said, nine and 12 years. That's all I cared about. Right. That's all I cared about. that we won those five championships. We went to the finals, like you said, nine and 12 years. That's all I cared about. That's all I cared about.

I just care about winning and doing things, playing the game of basketball the right way, just like now doing everything the right way off the court as well. So I love that the fact that I have all those records, but I don't think about them. I just think about the rings and that I had my love for the game and my teammates. I wouldn't change anything. A lot of people say, oh man,

the money they making today, boy, boy, don't you wish you were playing today? And I always say no. I said, there's nothing like playing the Celtics and the whole country is watching. Right. Right? And I got to go into Boston Garden and try to shut those fans up. Right. There was nothing like that. Then, you know, playing against Isaiah and the Bad Boys.

Right. That whole series. And then we only got one time to play against Michael Jordan, and it's too bad we had to play only once. Right. But it was still a joy for me. Right, to play against him and his bulls. You played against Dr. J and Moses. Oh, whoo-hoo.

Listen, that was my idol. Right, right. I love Dr. J. Tell them about the story, because if I'm not mistaken, you spent the summer with Dr. J the year before you beat him in the NBA finals. Yeah, so I call him up. I get his number and I say, Doc,

can you tell me? I'm thinking about turning pro. Right. You did it already. Right. What's the pros and cons of leaving school early? Right. So he said, you know what, young fella? I'm going to do you one better. I'm going to fly you out to Philly. You're going to stay with me.

We're in the playoff. You're going to stay with me. We're in the playoff. You're going to stay at my house, watch us play the game, and then we have conversations. I said, what did you just say? I'm screaming, tell my parents, I'm getting ready to go to Dr. J's house. I'm going crazy. What? Now, you a teenager.

Yes. I'm 19 years old. Right. I'm 19, and he's flying me to Philly. It was crazy, Shannon. So I get to the crib. Man, he got this big house. I said, oh. Yeah, I'm going. I'm turning pro.

I'm turning pro. That was it. That was it. He had the Rolls Roy voice come pick me up. I said, oh, I know what I'm doing now. But for him to do that, him and his wife, I always tell him I'll never forget that. He didn't have to do that. He didn't?

He could have talked to me on the phone, told me what I needed to know. He didn't have to do that. He didn't? He could have talked to me on the phone, told me what I needed to know. But he said, come on. And I had a great four or five days with him. And then I'm playing him seven months later. He probably wish you showed up in a Nissan or a Chevy Nova,

put you up in the hotel. Because one thing about him, man, you get caught. There's only a few players I've ever got caught watching. Right. Dr. J was one. Yeah. You was on the court when he took off on one side. Shannon, Shannon, and started walking in there. Yeah.

Put it in his hand, came up on the other side of the rim. Now he walking in the air. Spun it against the glass and good, man. I said, should we ask him to do it again? I never seen somebody hang in the air that long. Right. Got to throw too. He did throw.

You had to throw. Oh, man. And he did some stuff to us. Woo hoo hoo. Man, he dunked on, Coop was coming out. He walked the baby on Coop, yeah. I don't know what Coop was thinking. Coop was thinking, and then he got up there and said,

no, I said, that was a bad idea. I mean, he did that. That was a bad idea. Exactly. Man, he started rocking the baby. Bam. Dr. J. That was in the old spectrum, right?

Yes. And, man, amazing, man. Just amazing. And first class. So I tried to pattern myself after him because he was first class, nicest dude. He taught me a lot. Right.

Taught me a lot, even before I got into the league. Right. So I owe Dr. J a lot. When you get to the Lakers, the guy that's on the team is already probably one of the two or three greatest players of all time by the time you get there. He's a five-time

already MVP. He wins the MVP the year you get there. That's right. What was your impression of Kareem prior to you getting there, and then what was your impression of Kareem once you got of you getting there. And then what was your impression of Kareem? Once you got there? He was a guy that I just

idolized again and always wanted to I was dreaming. If I could just pass it to him a couple times, right? And then this coin flip happened and I end up a Laker and I get there and everybody told me, listen man, he a quiet dude.

Now here I am, I'm a loud dude with a big boom box. I got flashlight, knee deep on, I'm coming in parliament fucking down the yard. Yeah, OK. And he's looking at me like, oh, ho, ho, ho, ho. No, no, no, no, no. Cut that damn thing off. I was like, what? Oh, man, I had to be quiet. So that was our first encounter, that training camp.

So I came to him about that second, third day. where you like it I said where you like the ball he said I like it up high I said what hand you want me to throw it to he said young fella nobody's ever asked me that I said what hair you like right or left so I start throwing it to that right here where he wanted. Right. And he start opening up to me. Right. I was his rookie. Right. So I had to bring him Gatorade every time it was a timeout in practice, Gatorade and water.

I had to buy him hot dogs. They had to be beef hot dogs every time on the road. Right. I had to go get his hot dog. Okay. But I loved it. Right. I loved it.

You gained his trust. Yes. That's what I was working on. Yeah. First game, we down one. I remember this. Three seconds to go. We throw it to him at the free throw line.

Right. The boy turns, shoots a sky hook on net. I go running. I had never seen nobody shoot a sky hook from the free throw line. You know me. I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I went running. I jumped on him.

I'm hugging him, choking him. Damn, that was a good shot. So we get into the locker room, Shannon. He said, come here. He got that stern look on it rookie don't ever do that again we have 81 more games we can't be this high after the first game so the whole locker room looking now right what what am I going to do right and they tell me who he got So I walked away and I came back to him.

Listen. Now I'm looking up at him, 72. If you hit a shot like that 81 more times, I'm going to jump in your arms 81 more times. That's when they found out I wasn't going to take no stuff. I'm going to be me. Right. You're going to have to accept me who I am, just like I accept you for who you are. Right. You know what? So the first 20 games, we high-fived. Duncan, but he ain't into that. Right. So about the next 20 games, he started looking. So he came across the

lane and he dunked on somebody. All of a sudden he came running over to me. With my high five! Oh! He went to it now! You bought in, you bought in. I had him then. Right.

It's okay to enjoy yourself. It's okay to let go. Right. Man, we took off. Our relationship took off. The team took off. There it was right there. So I love Kareem.

Smartest athlete I've ever met in my life. Wow. He's amazing. LeBron James is about to do something unbelievable. And I don't know if it'll ever be done this way again. He's about to pass you for the all-time – I mean, pass you. I think LeBron's about to – He'll be for a third. And pass Kareem for the all-time assist. I mean, pass you, I think LeBron. It'd be for a third. An assist and pass Kareem for the all-time.

I don't know if that'll ever happen again. No, no. It'll never happen like that again. No. What makes LeBron so unique that he's able, he's not thought of as a score-first guy. But here he is, he's on the cusp of being the all-time leading scorer, and he's going to be a top five assist guy all time.

All at the same time. There's nobody at that height and size that can move that fast and also go through contact and still score. We've never seen it before. And still make his teammates better. Right. Right. So he's leading in so many different ways.

He can score. He can defend. He can rebound. He can assist. We've never seen that, a guy that size and that fast and that strong. Right. But also, we forget, he's the smartest dude. Right. See, people, I keep

telling people his basketball IQ is so far above everybody else. He reads situations. He reads the game. Okay, I need to score now. Oh, let me get so-and-so involved. He could do it all. And I think at the end of the day To pass to Lakers you're on the Lakers right and now you're gonna pass me and then eventually Kareem to be the all-time leading scorer Why and number three all-time? And assists right Wow Wow You got to give it to him. Yeah, you got to give it to him. And so and a good dude. Yeah, a good dude and smart off the court to build an incredible business.

What what's your personal relationship? Because a lot of people like try to say, well, well, he's not George. And I've always felt he's more you than Jordan. Jordan was a scorer. Jordan was an assassin. You could score, but your job was to facilitate, make sure everybody else got a chance to eat. I'm going to eat. It might be a little later, but I'm going to eat, but I'm just going to make sure they get their helpings first.

That's right, and he's between both of us. Yes. So he's got a little Jordan and a lot of me. So he's got a little Jordan and a lot of me. And the great thing about LeBron, he brings it every single night for 20 years. Right. Because them Cleveland teams, he had to bring it. Yeah, yeah. He put them on his back. That's hard.

Yeah. Right? And he did that and took them to the finals. Yes. Oh, man. They didn't have clearly enough talent to be in the NBA finals. In 2007, they had no business in the NBA finals. That's right. That's right.

So that's why he's remarkable. That's why he's special. Our relationship is good. You know, when I talked to him, brought him here to play for the Lakers, when I was president of basketball operations for the Lakers, his team, Rich Paul, Maverick, were all good. The thing that I hope that he'll have another shot at an NBA final. And right now we don't have enough talent. These shooters, man.

Yeah. Oh, in the worst way. When I look at this roster, and I watched the game the other night, and I know you did too, they're a younger version of what they were last year. That's right. Guys that can't defend and can't shoot. Yep. They just younger versions of that. That's all that's all so we definitely need to you know,

upgrade that upgrade the shooting and basketball IQC will Golden State beat everybody. It's not just the shooting and everything right? It's also the basketball IQ. not just the shooting and everything. Right. It's also the basketball IQ. Draymond Green, Steph, Clay, they so – Looney, they all – Andre Iguodala, they smart, man.

So you beat them – you got to beat them two ways, right? You got to beat them with your intelligence as well as your game. Right. So that's hard to do. Right. You seem to be very good. I mean, Magic, when guys pass you as far as all-time assists, you seem to be cool with it.

How do you think Kareem's going to take when LeBron finally passes him? Because for the longest time, I don't think, me personally, I don't think Kareem gets the credit that he deserves. No. As a six-time MVP, as sixth championship, the all-time lead scorer, third leading rebound of all time, I don't think he gets nearly enough credit. That's right. But he's always been able to hang his hat on, I'm't think he gets nearly enough credit. That's right.

But he's always been able to hang his hat on. I'm the all-time lead scorer. Exactly. Now, people don't talk about the number two. No. People don't talk about the number two scorer. They don't talk about the number two assist man. The number two rebounder.

That's right. The number two block shot. Nobody cares about number two. It's number one. How do you think he will handle that? Well, I don't think well. I mean, let's just be honest. If I got to say it, we got to be honest.

Right. And the fact that it's a dude playing for the Lakers, too. Right. You know, it's a dude playing in L.A. Right. So I think it'll be a hard pill to swallow. He eventually. Because he's had that record for almost 40 years, Kareem.

I mean, imagine. And I think he thought he was going to have it forever. Yeah, yeah. I think he thought he was going to have it forever. Because to play that long – I mean, LeBron is averaging 25 points a game for 20 years. Kareem averaged 24 points a game. So somebody to break LeBron's record is going to probably have to play as long and not – because Kareem only played.

He played in 95% of the game. That's right. LeBron has only played in 90% of the game. So somebody's going to have to play damn near 100% of the time. Average 25 to 26 points a game and play 20 years. That's right. And come in at 18. Yes.

See, you can't do it at 21, 22. No, no, no. You got to come in at 18. Right. But you got to come in at 18 getting busy. Right. You got to be good. Getting buddies.

Great. Yes. I mean, like, I don't – we're never going to see another LeBron. We're never going to see another Kareem. I mean, they just – when you got special guys like that who change the game, you're never going to see another guy like that. They asked LeBron about his relationship with Kareem, and he said he doesn't have a relationship.

And Kareem – I think sometimes Kareem – Kareem is Kareem. Kareem has seen some things, and Kareem and he said he doesn't have a relationship. I think sometimes Kareem is Kareem. Kareem has seen some things and Kareem was at the forefront of the civil rights thing. So Kareem sees things a lot differently than the athlete of today. And I don't think the relationship is where it needs to be or where it should be or where it could be. Have you thought about

like, man, I probably need to get Cap and LeBron together and sit down and have a conversation because it's not a good look because it seems like Kareem is upset the guy's going to pass him his record and LeBron is like – because LeBron has always been great at giving the old guys their credit. Yeah. That's one thing about LeBron. LeBron has no problem giving the old guys – because a lot of times, the old guys, man,

my generation was the greatest. It ain't nobody better. But LeBron will pay homage to his older guys. Do you wish LeBron and Kareem had a better relationship? For sure. I think, and for them as two men, two black men, you know, who have gone through a lot.

Right. LeBron, both of them are similar in ways. Kareem came out the same way as LeBron. All this hype. Right. Expectations. And they succeeded those expectations. Both of them.

Yes. They changed the game for Kareem. They changed the league for LeBron. That big, that strong, that fast. You know, they had to change things up. Right. Because people couldn't deal with him. Right.

Same thing with Kareem. So they're different yet similar. Right. And I just hope to what you just said. I think one day that's going to happen, you know. And if I can play a part in that. Right. I would love to do that.

I think let him pass them first. Right. Let that happen. Right. And let that soak in for a minute and then put the two men together because they're going to find out they're similar. They have more in common than they think. See, both of them, if something happens in the world,

they're the first ones to comment on it. That's right. Yeah. That's right. And so I would love to make that happen. Let's let LeBron go through passing me passing him. And then I think we can put that together. What was to get LeBron? You mentioned that, you know, you

good with Rich and Mav the team LeBron. What was your pitch to LeBron to come to the Lakers because at that point in time you all the other you will leave some lean years. I imagine right. It was a lean year. Well, well, I pitched him this

way. You could be responsible for the greatest franchise in the world. Okay, turning it around leading us back to a championship and they're going to say you

you did that right? And I I said give me two years I said we're gonna win the championship that third year right and everything I told him happened right I said we got some young pieces Kuzma and them they good they need judo right to teach them right and LeBron man got everybody ready How he practiced Hi, don't care his body his mentality his approach to the game also no nonsense see we were

Goofing off young guys didn't know how to really be a pro yet. You know, Rando, all those guys. LeBron came in. They all changed. And so I give LeBron a lot of credit for buying in. And then I told him the billionaire status and all the things you want to accomplish off the court. Right here. And you can live here.

See, we have a lot of celebrities, so they're going to say hi. Right. But they're going to let you do your thing. And he said, man, I like what you're talking about. And sure enough, everything I told him happened. And I'm so proud, not just of him, but the job Rich Paul and Mavericks has done as well there's the I think the biggest incident that happened thus far one of the biggest incident the Draymond situation yeah Jordan pool yeah it was reported that

you fought a teammate but there's no video evidence to see what happened I mean it could be a we just shoved, he shoved me, I shoved him. But he punched me, I punched him back. That's all speculation. But, you know, video changes everything, Magic. We saw the incident with our own two eyes. And I think for most indication, everybody will say Draymond was wrong in that situation. Yeah.

Oh, he was definitely wrong. You can take it as far as pushing, grabbing the jersey, all that. Yeah. Oh, he was definitely wrong. You can take it as far as pushing, grabbing the jersey, all that. Because that's what they were talking about with me. I've never punched any team. But I grab you. It's like, who grabbed me?

Listen, when you have a dude like Michael Cooper guarding you every single day, you get tired of that. So, yeah, we shot some elbows. We did a lot of that. Isaiah and I, you know, we got into it, you know, and we were great friends. But at the end of the day, I didn't punch him in the face.

And then tried to do some more to him, right? So Draymond knows better, because he's a great leader. He's a great young man. Smart, smart. And then Jordan Poole, Draymond is just like you. Got drafted late. Had to prove himself. Because Draymond was mad he didn't go in the first round.

Right. And he used that to say, hey, I'm going to motivate myself and I'm going to show everybody. Right. And Jordan Poole's the same way. Right. So I think that he probably, he's talking about, well, I don't regret it. Yes, he does.

He does. Draymond regrets it. Right. Because he's been a good guy. Right. You're the tricker, man. You make everything happens at Golden State. Correct.

Everybody gets shots because of you, Draymond, whether you're setting a pick or you're passing it to them, right. Correct. Everybody gets shots because of you, Draymond. Whether you send a pick or you pass it to him, right? Correct. So I think that if he could, he would take that back. Right. You know, because that's not who he is. Not with his teammates. He loves his teammates. And it changes the dynamic. That's right. Oh, no question. The relationship in the locker room. I don't care. It's never going to... I'm not saying it's magic. Everybody are friends in the locker room, but you have to be friendly. Yes.

That changes – Jordan Poole and Draymond relationship is forever changed with that one point. Oh, oh. Don't let anybody – I get it. We're going to be professional. That's right. Our job is to win basketball. That's right.

Win basketball games, but I can't look at you the same. You don't look at me the same. No, it's never going to be the same. You're friendly, and the other thing, respect. Right. So, I don't have to like you. same. You don't look at me the same. No, it's never going to be the same. You're friendly and the other thing, respect. Right. So I don't have to like you, but I got to respect you. I got to respect you, yeah. So when you cross that line,

like you said, it's never going to be the same. Right. And both of them know that. Right. No matter what they say. And because also, the families get involved. Well, I mean, I mean, because like, imagine now now everything is a meme. That's right.

And video, now with the Internet, everything is there forever. That's right. Forever. I mean, we can go back. I mean, the thing is, we can go back and we can see the baby sky hook. We can see that. We can see everything that's happened. We're going to see that with the same tenacity 20 years, 30 years from now.

Oh, yeah. And their camps are divided now, too. Yes. See, that's what people don't realize. Right, right. See, Jordan Poole's boys are saying, oh, what? Oh, I don't have no love for him either now. Right. Right?

And same thing with Draymond. That's right. That's right. I think only because Steph and Klay are sitting there. Right. Right? And same thing with Draymond. You can divide a locker room like that. That's right. That's right. I think only because Steph and Clay are sitting there. Right. And Steve is an amazing coach. Mm-hmm. And I think that they'll be okay.

Right? Because they understand championship and winning. And the owners are great, too. Yeah. So I think the franchise, everybody will keep them together. They will never probably be friends ever again, but they should be okay. I don't think it has stopped them from reaching a championship How did that tape get out magic? I? Mean me personally. I think it got leaked to make Draymond look bad

Hey, no way, I don't believe there's some intern that went rogue. You already know how that tape got, man. Man, come on. Everybody knows. This is common sense now. Okay, you taping. Now, only employees that go to state are in there. Right.

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And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Steph Curry. We've never seen a guy. Small guys, small guys don't normally lead teams to championship. It's been very few. That's right. When you talk about a guard, you talk about Isaiah.

That might be the only guard ever. Ever. What's Isaiah, 6'1"? So we got a guy, Steph Curry's probably 6'2", that leads a team to a championship. What makes Steph so unique? Obviously, we know he can shoot the ball, but it's got to be more than that.

Oh, it's definitely more than that. First of all, movement without the ball. He's constant motion. We've never seen probably a basketball player in better condition and understand angles and how to come off that screen and also be on balance to still shoot. Right. And he can shoot off balance too.

Right. We've never seen that before. Right. And for him to be that small, but he can shoot from almost half court. He's not throwing it. He's shooting it. We've never seen

that before. And then he's a killer. See, people look at the smile just like they looked at me with my smile. Oh, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to try to take your head off. Here's the thing, Magic. Look at kill you. Right, right. I'm going to try to take your head off. But see, here's the thing, Magic. Look at where you came from, Lansing, Michigan. Dad worked the sanitation department.

That's right. So you grew up hard. That's right. His dad was an NBA player. He got the smile. He liked skiing. Oh, that joke was soft. He ain't nothing bad.

You know. That's what they said, too. And he showed them. He said, no. No, I'm not. I'm not soft. And I'm here to show you. Right. And he showed him he said no, no, I'm not I'm not soft and I'm here to show you right what he did in that final was special because

Them first three games. I think he was almost over 40, right? I mean and just lighten it up But he shut everybody up right said he couldn't be the finals MVP, right? He couldn't leave this team, right and I Think that made him feel good. He already knew he could do it. He just showed everybody he could do it right and that put him in that right Rush Mount Rushmore of great players that's ever played in this league. So Steph, I love Steph because he's changed the game in his way, Right. Three-point shooter. Now kids want to be Steph.

Yeah, they don't care about Duncan now. No, no. Everybody, the little kid, throwing the ball. That's right. That's right. Want to be Steph. And there's nothing wrong with that.

So, and he's a great family man. And he's tasteful with all his commercials and his business. I love him on the court, but I love him off the court as well. What was it like? Jordan played golf before the game. Jordan going to get his golf in. He's going to be smoking on his stick. He's going to be on his sticks.

What was Magic pregame routine? And how was he able to do that? Man go to Atlantic City and gamble. The man could go out out be out all night and come give you 50 because he was the strongest Not basketball player athlete. I've ever seen because he could do just what? If I tried to do

The old for 15 no assist I'll be dragging and he tried to get me to do it with him, right? Doing the dream team. Matt, MJ, MJ. I said, what's up? Come on, hang with me. I said, Mike, I can't hang till 4 o'clock. You have your drinks, get up, go play 18 rounds of golf,

sleep for an hour, and then come get 30 by halftime. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I know who I am. Right. So my routine was I got to have my music. Right. I got to have quiet.

Right. So I had my house quiet, my car. I didn't let nobody ride with me. I had to get there three, four hours before. You only had to be there an hour and a half. Right. I had to get there three, four hours before. You only had to be there an hour and a half. I had to get there way earlier than that. So I can get ready because I had so much I had to remember.

Our plays, their plays, make sure the guys were in position. And then I would go out and do my thing, man. And then I would always get my rest. See, I was 150% in. I didn't hang out during the season. I didn't do none of that. I got my rest. I was 150% in right. I didn't hang out during the season. I didn't do none of that. Right. I got my rest. I was prepared mentally physically. And so that's who I was, you know, and so it paid off for me as well. But Jordan,

what he did paid off for him. Right, right. And that's what made him Michael Jordan. I've ever said that before he actually won the finals, when you and the Celtics were playing in the finals, he would come into your locker room because he wanted to see what it was like to be in the NBA finals. What was the mindset of the guys that were in that moment?

And it helped him be able to take that back to his team. Why y'all let that man in there? I love Isaiah. That was my man. He was my best friend at that time. So it wasn't just in the locker room. Also, we would sit up in my room or we go in the lobby and just talk that that game and the series. So he was just, man, he was just getting all

this valuable information, both watching the game as well as talking to me about it, my approach, how I saw it. Right. And sure enough, man, when it was their turn, wow, he took full advantage of it. But give Isaiah credit because a lot of dudes today won't do that. No. See, they won't do that. Pride won't let them, though.

No. There you go, right there. Pride and ego, their camp, their agent, you know, the team around them. Right. Because now everybody got a team. Right. We ran with – I ran with one dude. Right.

Back in the day, you ran with one dude. Right. And now they got – Did the NBA finals change you and Isaiah's relationship? Yeah. Yeah, it did. And I'm sad that I have to sit here and say that but it did both.

I'm sure his coaches like Pat Riley wanted to know and my get and my teammates want to know if I had to am I going to put him down. You did and I said, yeah, and I did and so that got them say, okay, because he but he looked he looked at you different. Oh, for sure. Because the product like, okay, you know, you guys had a great relationship. You know, you you a a bro a stay healthy good. But he came down the middle and you had you had to let them know. That's right. My teammates

as well as the Pistons. You had to let him know. That's right. That I'm here to win. Right? And then he jumped up swinging and I said, no problem. I had no problem with that. Right right, you know and so it took us a matter of fact the last probably a couple years to mend everything right and But man, we had some good times right and What a great training partner and a great friend of our families our families were close to as well That's the one I regret. You know, you regret some things in life. That was one of them.

I regret not calling LeBron, telling him I was stepping down. I really regretted that. I owed him that. Why did you step down? Santa, it's just I had to. I thought I had the power to do what I wanted to do. Right. And the power – what did you want to do? I wanted to fire Luke Walton.

You didn't feel that he was capable of doing the job? Oh, I knew he wasn't. Right. And so I said, hey, we got to let him go. He's not the right guy. You know, he's not a great coach for the Laker team and they wanted to keep him. So I said, okay, I already knew that I didn't want to fracture the great relationship. I have with Jeannie bus, right? That's

my sister. Right? So and instead of me, you know, sitting there and I can never be this dude to just sit and not say what's on my mind. Right. I said, let me just exit. It's going to be best for everybody. Right. And I felt some dudes wanted to be in the seat that I had. So, hey.

You let them have it. You go ahead. You can have it. I'm out. And Jeannie and I are still great friends. And so it was the best move. And I'm glad I did it. I regret not calling him.

Right. How different do you believe your NBA career would have been and your life in general had you not gotten the diagnosis in 1991? Because how many more years do you feel you could have played at the top of your game? Oh, man, I probably, man, I would have played a lot more years and I probably would have had been number one in assists.

Right. You'd have sent that record out there and nobody would have won it. Oh, for sure. And so, and we probably would have won a few more championships as well. But you know, one thing I'm good at is dealing with the cards I'm dealt. Right. And I never look

back. I've never been this dude. Right. And I never looked back. I've never been this dude that. You never asked a question like that? Why me? How did this happen? Why this? Well, I did when it first. When it first happened.

When it first happened. You're like, damn. Because I remember Magic. It was in 91 and we were coming off the practice field. And one of our reporters was like, Magic Johnson's retiring and he was retiring because of this. I'm like, huh? What? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Because it was so sudden. Yes, exactly. And that's what happened. It. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was so sudden. Yes, exactly. And that's what happened. It hit me the same way. It was so sudden. And man, I was sick, man, for the first two

years that I'm not out there with my guys. I'm young in my prime. You had to be depressed. The mental anguish of dealing with this publicly. I'm not able to play basketball. People looking at me like, rest. And also the same people who used to give you the dab and the love hug. Because I didn't understand Magic.

Okay, they say, oh, it's cool for him to play on the Dream Team, but they didn't want you in the NBA. Yeah. All the guys. Yeah. And so, especially Karl Malone, he came out publicly with it. Now I just played with you. Right.

In the Dream Team. In the Dream Team. And I practiced against you every single day. Right. And now you don't want to play with me? I mean, I'm sorry, against me? Against me, right. I was like, wow.

You could have just said that to me. Right. You could have said that to me privately. That's right. And I'd have been cool with that. No question about it. So, you know what? I said, I don't want to I don't want to damage the league

I don't want if they if they gonna look at me that way I won't come back, right? We had some work to do so I started educating everybody about the disease and everything and then I finally came back I played what half the season a little bit. You know, 96. Mm-hmm. And I went out my way. And then they wanted me to come back. And I said no. I think it was the 95 or 96.

96, yeah. And I said, I'm good. And so that's when I retired. Just like you and I now. I'm so proud of you into your second life. And you reinvented yourself. And now you're a businessman doing great things. That's what it's all about. And so that's what I decided to do. Just get into my business life.

One more thing I want to ask you about this, because I really think you can help a lot of men, a lot of people in our community. Your youngest son chose to live his life as a game maker. That's right. And I remember I heard somewhere where you said, well, you kind of saw things that normal boys like to do. He kind of didn't want to do it. That's right. So you kind of had an inkling, but you wanted to hear him say it. That's right.

You didn't want to form, you're like, nah, this is not what I want to do. How was that conversation? And then how were you able to get past that? Because, like they say, there's really no manual of how to be a parent because you're going to be throwing curveballs that you don't have any idea how to hit, but you just got to sit there and say, okay, let's work through this. How were you able to have a conversation with him and say, EJ, you're my son. I love you.

If this is the life you want to live, live it to the fullest. Well, Shannon, that's an excellent question and how you phrased it, too, and put it together. In the beginning, I was like any other day, oh, I'm going to get him in sports. Right. Did he ever like sports? No. And so when we start first soccer and then football, he's like, mm-mm.

And then, you know, I saw early on he was playing with dials. Right. Like to play dress-up But then if I come in he would hide all that right, but I saw right now and so I Think as he got older and older you start seeing it, but he never said anything Right, and so I think he was trying to keep it from me right and then finally, you know He felt strong enough that he could finally tell me. Right. And so he made me change.

Right. And so it wasn't he had to adjust. I had to adjust. Correct. And but I. Did his mom know? Yes, mom knew. So he always talked to his mom.

He. OK. OK. OK. He always talked to his mom. OK. OK. Right.

So Cookie knew. But she never told you. She was waiting on him to tell me. Right, right. So and I finally told him I said let me tell you something you my son I love you. I don't care. You want to be a gay man? I'm supporting that. I'm supporting that. I'm supporting you. And when he finally announced it to the world, and I saw all the letters that came in around the world that he affected all these other young people who wanted to come

out to their parents and gave them the strength to do it, I said, wow. So now we're like best of friends. Right. And I tell him all the time, I'm so proud of you. You know, live your life. Just like I'm living my life. Right.

So live your life. Love who you want to love. Right. Dad is going to support you all the way. Right. So it's really beautiful. And guess what? He cried.

He needed to hear that. Right. Because he was waiting because some of cried. He needed to hear that. Right. Because he was waiting because some of his friends didn't get that support. Right. Right. But he needed your affirmation. That's right. He needed confirmation from his dad.

That's right. His mom, yeah, Mom, I know that. But I need Irving Magic Johnson. Yes. I need him to say it's okay. That's right. And we all got to love our children no matter what they decide. That's their life. That's right. A lot of parents, but see, no matter what they decide to do. That's their life.

That's right. A lot of parents, but see, that's why they be behaving like they do at soccer games and basketball games and football games because they're living their life through the child. There you go. You had your life. That's right. You grown. That's right.

Let that kid live his life. Whatever he or she wants to be or do in their life, if they ain't harming nobody, do that. Yes, and support them because they need that. That's what they want and that's what they need. They need that's what they wanted that's what they need they need that they need to know that you love them and that you support them whatever decision they make whoever they decide to love or like you got to support that and so that's what i've been able to do so i'm glad you brought it up because a lot of times in the black community even those who are christian or go to church i go to church, too. I'm a Christian man, too. But I love my son.

I am stepping away from my son. Exactly. Again, we're best of friends. I support not only him, Andre, Elisa, my daughter as well. And they all are tight. Right. You can't say nothing wrong about my son in front of Elisa. She'll attack you.

The business side of magic. I'm going to get you out of here with this one, Magic. The business side of magic. Were you always into this or was this once 91 happened, you said, okay, I can't do basketball now. I need to transition to find something to do with my time that basketball used to occupy.

Is that where the Magic Johnson brand business came about or were you always dabbling? Yeah, it was before that I was educating myself with mentors. Okay. You know, Dr. Jerry Bust, the late owner of the Lakers, became my first mentor. Peter Gruber, all these guys, you know, Howard Schultz and on and on and on. So two guys back in Lansing, Michigan, Greg Eaton and Joe Ferguson,

showed me that black men could own businesses and buildings. I was like, what? We can do that? Wow. That really inspired me and changed my dreams. Okay. But I was preparing before I announced I had HIV.

That just jump-started me in 91. And so that's when I said, okay, now I can... full attention on the business and starting it, my journey. And sure enough, I just took off from there, and I've been in it ever since. And so I've been blessed, man. And I did something that a lot of guys remember. It was an unwritten rule.

You couldn't befriend the owner. Right. So all of them was looking, the Lakers looking at me like, oh, they had a meeting on me. Right. Come here, man. You can't be Jerry Buss' friend. I said, okay, I'm going to put it to y'all like this. You're a millionaire.

He a billionaire. I'm going with him. I can't be your friend. I'm going to be his best boy. I'm going with him. And that's what I did. So I said, y'all can be mad if you want. That has nothing to do with my job.

Right. I do my job, and I do it well. Ain't nothing going to change. Right. But when he say come to lunch and dinner, come to my house, play pool, and I'm soaking, getting all that knowledge. Man, you crazy. You can't give it to me.

Right, right. But I can get it from him because I'm going somewhere. Magic Johnson wants to own the NBA team? I do, just the right situation. But I'm such a Laker fan, I don't know if I can do it. I don't think you can do it. Me either. I've had four opportunities, and I turned them all down.

Joe Laker and Peter Gruber sat down and lunched with me in Santa Monica. We want you to be our partners with the Golden State Warriors. I love both men. I just couldn't do it. I was Laker. I love the Lakers. And the thing I also imagine is that your relationship, you're a people

person. And if somebody comes to you, you're going to give them knowledge. And people say, well, hold on. How you going to give somebody knowledge? You own this up and you helping to beat us. So I don't think it's going to... You can own an NFL team or a baseball team, but basketball, your love of the game,

you will not hoard that knowledge. Yeah. Ever. And all of them come to me still. Right. And I help all of them out. That's just who I am, just who you are. Right.

Right. And so even knowledge on the show, every single day you pass that knowledge on to Skip and all of us. Right. Right. And it's beautiful to see and hear. Right. And so, listen, man, this has been amazing. We could go for another two, three hours. I appreciate it.

I appreciate your time because I know how busy you are. We were talking up there about, you know, hey, I got to go here, here, here. I'm here for a couple of days and I go there, there, there. But for you to take time out of your busy schedule and sit down and give us an opportunity. So all my listeners at Club Shea Shea, because I'm sure they're going to hear some things that you probably haven't shared before or haven't shared in a very long time. So I really appreciate it, bro. Anytime, you know, for you.

Anytime. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me in Club Shea Shea. The magic man is Shannon. Oh, we doing it, baby. See, two former athletes still doing it. Still doing it. We talk the talk. talk we understand the same way, right? All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle pay the price. Want a slice, not to roll a dice.

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