Club Shay Shay - Mark Jackson

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

On episode 38 of Club Shay Shay, Shannon Welcomes in NBA All-Star, 1987 Rookie of the Year & former head coach of the Golden State Warriors: Mark Jackson. Mark Jackson talks to Shannon about his chemistry with Jeff Van Gundy, and how he came up with some of his famous catchphrases. They break down the NBA Finals, Giannis and the Bucks, the Suns, and more. The two touch on all aspects of the NBA, past and present: comparing eras, discussing their favorite players, and discussing the Ben Simmons situation in Philadelphia. Mark Jackson has plenty of legendary stories about Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant to share, as well as insights from his time coaching Steph Curry and Klay Thompson in Golden State. Mark Jackson is a knowledgeable basketball mind who has incredible experience in the league and unique takes on the game from all eras. Listen to hear him and Shannon discuss why we take LeBron for granted, Luka’s greatness, and much more. #DoSomethinB4TwoSomethin & Follow Club Shay Shay:                                                                 https://www.instagram.com/clubshayshayhttps://twitter.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.facebook.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.youtube.com/c/clubshayshay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Make sure to listen to the Good Morning Football podcast Monday through Friday on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Shea Shea. I am your host, Shannon Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Shea Shea. I am your host, Shannon Sharp, also the proprietor of Club Shea Shea, the guy that's stopping by for a conversation, no drink today, but he will lead us in devotional service, and he will definitely give us the benediction. He's a 17-year NBA vet, an NBA All-Star, 1987 Rookie of the Year,

fourth all-time in career assists, and he's a former head coach of the Golden State Warriors, Mark Jackson. Mark, how you doing? I'm doing well, man. Thanks for having me. The one thing I want to get before... You told me how you do it, but I want to know this. How do you... Because people ask me this when I say things on air that's catchy. How do you come up with the catchphrase,

Mama, there goes that man. Hand down, man down. Shall we have this dance? How do you, in the catchphrase, Mama, there goes that man. Hand down, man down. Shall we have this dance? How do you, in the moment, like, okay, it's now. And you come up with those phrases. Well, I can attest to the fact that you can relate to it because it all started in competition. Right.

It starts in the streets, in the playground. Right. At the park. It starts in practice when I make it to the league. You stumble on the lines just going at your your teammates and practice every single day uh playing one on one two on two three on three five on five what have you just coming up with great catch phrases and i've been fortunate enough to to have a couple that have stuck did you know at the time that you were saying it that it would stick like it has stuck?

That's a great question. I would say no. I would say the people just embrace it and all of a sudden it catches fire. There's ones that I don't get credit for that started. So it just happens and then I continue to sit on it. And I've been fortunate to work with great people that have allowed me to take advantage of it. Right. So Mark Jackson is away from the NBA. What do you do in your offseason?

What do you do to relax? Do you go back and watch tape, look at games and say, okay, I said this, this. I could have said that. How does Mark Jackson get better? Well, I relax, first and foremost, because of the long season. But the way you get better is I don't watch a lot of film on myself. What I do is the same thing I've done as a kid growing up, wanting to be in television, wanting to be an announcer, a coach, a player. I watch a lot of film of myself. Okay. What I do is the same thing I've done as a kid growing up wanting to be in television, wanting to be an announcer, a coach, a player.

I watch film. Right. And when I watch film, I watch Shannon Sharp doing his thing. Every single day I watch the great announcers in every sport. And I watch things that they do exceptionally well, and then quite honestly I watch some things that I think that they could do better. Right. And I try to implement it into my game.

So it's a constant period of growth, watching the greats in every single sports, especially the ones that I enjoy. I think you, Mike Breen and Jeff Van Gundy is as good as it gets at what you guys do. When they put you guys together, did you realize that you were going to have the chemistry and you were going to have, and you were going to beat what you guys do. When they put you guys together, did you realize that you were going to have the chemistry and you were going to be what you were?

Well thank you for the compliment. I would say the one thing you want in those situations and you being around TV for so long is chemistry. Where everybody has one agenda. And when you talk about Mike Green and Jeff Van Gundy, we've known each other I would say 30 years minimum and we are friends and what you see during the course of a telecast is the same thing you would see during the course of going to dinner with us right we are friends we care about each other we have one agenda which is making each other look exceptionally well and I take great pride and I love those guys they are absolutely the best in the business and we complement one another exceptionally

well how do you because I think you and Jeff do a great job of playing off each other I mean he'll say you know you you're the player and you like nah that's not a foul I've been in the NBA that's not a foul and he's like yeah but that's not the way they call it. Now. How do you guys balance that fine line? Well, Mike does a great job in my opinion. When you look at Ernie Johnson, right? When you look at Magic Johnson's to me, those are the and Mike Green, the three best point guards to ever play the game. Right. And what Ernie does with TNT and the cast of guys that he has,

they're great because of Ernie. Yeah, he give you layups. There ain't no three-parter. He give you layups. And he knows also when to slam on the brakes and we need to get back to business. And Mike Green does the same exact thing with us. So he gives us enough room, and then it's like,

okay, guys, let's get back to it. But there's never a time where we look at each other like, you tried to play me on TV? Right. You know, you fronted on me? Right, right, guys, let's get back to it. But there's never a time where we look at each other like, you tried to play me on TV? Right. You know, you fronted on me? Right, right, right. No, we understand and we embrace it. To the core, Jeff and I are the same,

but we have different ways of getting to certain things. But we have total respect for one another. So it's a lot of fun. And we laugh afterwards whether I get over on him or he get over on me, and it's nothing personal. Let's go back to the NBA Finals finals the Milwaukee Bucks finally get it done uh Giannis was sensational going into that series how did you think the series was going to play out and did it play out like you thought it would no I wish it would have I thought the Phoenix Suns were going to win

because they had all the momentum right they they they were playing with great confidence. They truly accepted and embraced the role from from top to bottom. And they were the hot team. No disrespect to the Milwaukee Bucks. They deserved it, but you got to pick one and I was wrong in that situation. But Chris Paul was playing great basketball. I thought it might affect them not having them early on in the series in the seat in the series. But once they began to play well and get great play from Cameron Payne off the bench, I thought it would be a difference maker. But give Giannis a lot of credit and give that team a lot of credit.

He was sensational. They really fought back, didn't hold their heads down, and followed their leader. And he was brilliant. When I look at Phoenix and if you look at what teams have been able to do teams that have knocked the the Bucks out of the playoffs, they built what they speak called the wall. And it's basically like we're going to pick out. We're not

going to let Yonnas kill us in the paint. Are you surprised that Monte Williams took the approach that my big guy DeAndre Ayton can handle Yonnas one-on-one. It seemed foolish to me. When you look at Toronto, you look at Miami, you look at the teams that my big guy, DeAndre Ayton, can handle Giannis one-on-one. It seemed foolish to me. When you look at Toronto, you look at Miami, you look at the teams that have beaten them in the playoffs, they've had a defense of how they were going to play Giannis. It seemed like Phoenix says, look, we play how we play,

and we're going to get it done. Well, Monte Williams is an outstanding basketball coach and even more so an even better person. Okay. Who hit all the right buttons and pushed all the right buttons on the way to going to the finals. And I just think that one decision affected the series. Right. The way to beat Giannis and the Bucs, you have to build a wall. Right.

He's that dominant of a player. Right. Giannis and the Bucks, you have to build a wall. He's that dominant of a player. And if you don't want to build a wall, you have to have that exceptional individual defensive stopper that does a great job of making them work for everything. You're not going to stop them, but you're going to make them work. And DeAndre Ayton, as great as a defender he is,

is asking too much to defend one of the best, if not the best player in basketball, Giannis, especially the way he was playing. His numbers was incredible. The series, the way he performed was incredible. I think it was a tall task to ask your big man to do it individually. I think looking back, and we all as coaches, as players, we look back and want to make better decisions

and probably would do something different. That's one thing that probably they would. He was exceptional. And I think part of the reason was the defense that was played against him. Yeah, because when you Mark, when I look at it and I saw game one and I look at how non-aggressive Yannis was and I'm like, hold on. He only got this many shots, but he didn't miss very

many. Seems like he was just testing that knee out. Oh, my knees fine. And then you look at the next two games. I was like, they might be in trouble if they don't come with a better plan. Yeah, you have to make him even going forward. There's no surprise. If I'm honest, I'm sitting at home saying they're going to make me shoot jumpers and they're going to build a wall, right? That's everybody's strategy. You don't have to be a genius to do that, right? And you have to force him to beat you on your terms, right? Shoot jump shots, and he has to see two or three bodies in front of him at all times. He didn't see that.

He got it going. He got downhill, and then he was a nightmare to defend. And because it seemed like the more confidence that he got, the better he shot free throws. A guy that had been struggling shooting the free throw, now all of a sudden he's seeing the ball go in, and now he goes, what, 17 to 19 in game six with a 50-piece. Well, to his credit, it's how hard he works.

Yes. The people that are around him every single day testify to the fact of the amount of time he puts in every single day before, after practice, late on in the night. So he put himself in a position to be successful. Right. Got a rhythm, gained confidence, and wasn't afraid. You're talking about a guy that looked petrified when the crowd was

counting 1 through 15 or 18 or whatever it was and was afraid to get to the line, was afraid to get fouled, all of a sudden was embracing the contact and celebrated the fact that he went to the line, took deep breaths and knocked him down. Let's just say for the sake of argument, Mark Jackson is the coach of the 76ers. I know you and Doc are good friends. How do you handle the Ben Simmons situation considering what has transpired since the last time they were on the court? They lose a game seven, a very tough game seven. Okay, Doc said his words were misconstrued. It's just my thing is if I if you're the head coach and I'm your player that I'm the player and the reporter asks Mark Jackson,

Mark, do you believe you can win a championship with Shannon? The response, absolutely. We didn't have a good series. We didn't have a good game. Give Atlanta credit. They played well. I don't believe Mark Jackson can say, I don't know that, and not think the player is going to take offense to that.

You're 100% correct. And Doc Bruce is an absolute, you know, heck of a basketball coach. Future Hall of Fame as a basketball coach. Did more things than I did as a coach, quite honestly, and deserves a lot of credit. And the thing you can do is own the fact that, you know, I made a mistake. Right. I said the wrong thing.

I absolutely believe that this guy, Ben Simmons, is a home run talent, and he is the guy that can lead us to win the championship. The question is, I got to do a better job. Right. I mean, let's put it on you. And then when Ben is asked, he puts it on himself. Correct. And big ups the coach. So in that situation, I think the thing to do is to be quite honest, understand that individually, collectively, we came up short. Right. And we got to find a way moving forward to answer and respond to the things that we fell short in doing, whether it be coaching, whether it be finishing at the rim,

whether it be scoring, whether it be making free throws, whether it be our best players playing the best on both sides of the floor. But be honest, accept the challenge, embrace it, and look forward to what lies ahead. It's been reported that Ben Simmons has spoken with Doc Rivers. He's spoken with the front office in the 76ers and says, I do not want to be here.

I think he took real offense last year with the James Harden trade. His name came up, and you know how it is. If a trade ever comes up and it comes out that somebody was in there and he doesn't get traded, you got some bridges to mend, Mark. You got to fix that. You do, but you you also if you told me I was involved in a trade discussion for Isaiah Thomas.

I'm crazy if I'm upset. You know make make the deal. So if you're Ben Simmons and you say we talked and discussions about getting James Harden understand who James Harden is right. And we have Ben Simmons.

I understand that I was in the middle of those discussions because in order to get a talent like James Harden you've got to give up something. And the something is either Joel Embiid or me if I'm Ben Simmons, and I'd be realistic about it. Now, the other stuff I've got a problem with, when you say we can't win with him, that's totally different. But if I'm in discussions with trades involving James Harden, I understand that, and I'm wrong if I'm upset about it.

But it seems like some discussions have to be had because Ben Simmons is pretty set in his ways. Yeah, understanding that he's been insulted as a franchise talent and you win in this league with talent, right? So you got to find a way to either fix it or make sure when you do unload Ben Simmons in a trade, you have to get top-notch talent back. Well, how does how does how does Mark Jackson make it right? Ben Simmons has already told you he doesn't want to be there.

What was said was what was said. What Joel Embiid said, that the momentum seemed to have shifted. We had a layup, and we ended up getting one point out of the deal. There are going to have to be some fences mending in that situation. How does Mark Jackson go to Ben Simmons and say, bro, let's have a conversation? See, we would have met early on. Right.

Because I made a mistake if I'm Doc Rivers, if you put me in that situation, by making the initial comment. And then Joel Embiid makes the mistakes by pointing to one significant play and act like that is why we lost. We didn't mention the eight turnovers that Joel Embiid had. It was across the board. It was a collective effort. The reason why we're in that position because because of us collectively and the reason why we

have fallen short is because of us collectively so one thing i want to do is get us in together and let's talk about it let's talk about it we're going to do this thing we you're not going to do it individually i'm not going to do it individually the reason we're here is collectively let's embrace that let's own the mistakes we've. And if there's a way that we can fix this thing, because you only, look, I'm sitting there as a guy that played in the finals, that been in the playoffs a bunch of times, that been on some great teams that had the ability to win, but I'm not a championship player with championship jewelry.

Right. I've fallen short. If you are in a situation where you have home run talent and everything going for you, and you have a realistic chance of winning it all, let's make sure we capitalize and take advantage of it. Because we don't want to look back and say, the foolishness that we thought was important

really wasn't important at the end of the day. But how do everybody keep saying, well, we can teach Ben this, and if he shoot, if he develop the three, damn the three ball. I think there's too much emphasis on the three ball. If I can get a good two point shot, if I can get a layup, I get a 10 footer. Why am I going to run behind the free throw line?

What is it about being because you mentioned earlier about the work that Yannis is putting in. And this is what I've told people. It's hard for me to see a scenario, Mark, where someone doesn't work at something and doesn't get incrementally better. He hasn't gotten better at shooting the basketball. Why? I'm not sure if he hasn't gotten better at shooting the basketball. He's the one guy. That's the reason. He's the one guy in the history of the game that we've seen that just won't shoot it. I would tell to him, shoot the basketball.

Because we want to win the way we are going to win because you are an elite basketball player. You are a franchise talent shoot the basketball. You're not coming out of the game. Don't you worry about a thing. I want you to be aggressive. I want you to keep your foot on the gas pedal because an aggressive Ben Simmons makes us unguardable makes us the favorite and not just the Eastern Conference, but in all of basketball. He's too great at everything else. You talk about a guy. The only thing

you look at is bad free throw shooter and doesn't shoot the jump shot. Everything else he is elite at. It's kind of hard, Mark, if you're a basketball player. The jump shot and the free throw, it's kind of hard to do that. It is hard, but you look at his numbers. You look at the rebounds, the points, the assists, the elite defender. He is an exceptional basketball player.

If I'm a team sitting around the league, one of the other 29 teams in this league, I'm trying to make a deal to go get Ben Simmons. Because what you are talking about is a guy that you're nitpicking. I'm looking at an elite basketball talent that you don't have to beg to get into the basketball arena. You don't have to beg to practice. You don't have to beg to play hard. He is

a guy that really should be celebrated. And we are being awfully tough on him. Deservedlyly so to a certain extent. But there are things that he does at an elite level that we're overlooking. But you said he won't shoot. There's a difference between won't shoot and being afraid to shoot.

If you can't swim, I can teach you how to swim if you're not afraid of the water. But if you're afraid of the water, ain't nothing I can do for you. You're right about that. I'm crazy enough to believe I've been blessed and fortunate in my life since I've been a kid. I have the ability to push a button no matter who I meet.

Right. I would find that button and get him. He's not going to be Steph Curry. You don't need him to be. You don't need him to be Steph Curry. But he's a guy that he's too good in the summertime shooting the basketball. Yes. I see that that he should not go from that to not shooting. He I would tell him chase the greats, right? The talent that he has.

He's not playing against the guys in today's game, right? If he becomes a decent shooter and a guy that was willing to a willing shooter. He's chasing the at all time great list. When you look at the moves that have been made this off season, which teams made some of the best move to sit, put themselves in position to get to and compete and win that title. Off the top of my head. I look at the Brooklyn Nets. Okay, and you get the markers all just back healthy

Thank God that he's okay and back on the floor you go get a Paul Millsap and the most important thing to me Well, not the most you get Blake Griffin back But the most important thing to me is you get Kevin Durant James Harden and Kyrie Irving some rest, right? So they come back healthy and whole. Right. They're the favorite. I mean, this Justin, they are the favorite when you're talking about those three guys and how good they are. Right. I love what the Lakers have done.

People talk about gotten old. At the end of the day, give me guys that are experienced, that know how to get it done, and I'll make sure that I don't tax them, come practice time, tax them in game situations, putting an overload of work on them and making sure that they are healthy and whole when it matters most. I'll let the chips fall where they may have. I'm the Lakers playing against anybody. Have we ever seen three elite-level offensive players

like what Brooklyn has with KD, James Harden, and Kyrie in their prime on one team at a given time no is that a trick question no matter of fact I don't cuss but heck no no I mean these are three guys that you can go get give the basketball to and say make a play I don't have to draw up anything right individually it will go get a shot I'll make sure you get a quality shot every trip down the floor Kyrie Irving James James Harden, Kevin Durant, you cannot think of a trio that is as good as those guys on one team other than the dream team. But no, no. When you mentioned you like Brooklyn, you like the Lakers,

Kawhi, put Kawhi, let's just say Kawhi gets healthy and he plays. Now, history tells us that Kawhi is the type of guy that makes sure he's 100%. So I'm not totally sure that he's going to come back and play to 2021. He probably won't be back until the following season. But after what you saw with the Clippers, do you like them moving forward? My problem with the Clippers is the culture. Do you like them moving forward? My problem with the Clippers is the culture. For some reason, they have all the talent in the world

to be in the mix, winning it all. But they have fallen short. And when they have fallen short and when adversity have set in, it's looking around. It's almost like they're trying to look whose fault it is or what's the reason. They have everything it takes to win it all and be in the mix.

And for some reason, they've fallen short. I think they have to be committed individually and collectively. They have to make sure they have a culture where we understand the rules are different. I heard you talking about this. The rules are different for superstar talent. Absolutely. But it can't be grossly different. Yes.

You can't just be doing you and then all of a sudden we throw the ball in the air and you out of nowhere you taking off your warm-ups and you ready give me something and I'll work with you right but everybody's watching us so it's important to make sure we're on one accord as a team and and and and locked and loaded to chase this this championship ring. I told people my college coach used to tell us I'm gonna going to treat everybody fair, but I'm not going to treat everybody the same. And what the really great players understood is that they don't abuse those privileges. Right.

Understand that you're going to get certain things that the other guys can't get. But if you become abusive of those privileges, those guys will resent you. Absolutely. And I don't think people understand that. They think, well, I'm the superstar, yada, yada, yada. No, you'll make those other guys in that locker room, whether it's football, baseball, I don't care the sport. If they feel you're abusing those privileges, and I heard you, you heard what I heard. Well, we don't leave until Kawhi. We don't practice until Kawhi. We don't do this. No, no, no. It can't be that. Right. I get it. Some days,

Kawhi might not want to practice. We cool. I'm good with that. Right. But to hold up a whole plane? Right. And some days, guess what? I got to work with you also. I got to use my smarts as a leader to take advantage of the situation. Allen Iverson said practice, practice. He's 100% right. Right.

I played against Allen Iverson. I know the way he keeps his foot on the gas pedal all game long. Right. He needs to chill come practice time. But me as a coach, guess what? Some of those days when Allen says he can't practice, nobody practices. I'm going to throw everybody a bone because it's not going to just be he shut it down when he wants.

I have to be smart enough to say, okay, nobody practice. Treat some of those guys like they're stars. Even though they're not, throw them a bone and make sure everybody understands what it takes to win. Mark, you are a shooter. You can shoot the basketball. You're a good free throw shooter. What's some of the advice?

Because Ben Simmons had the worst free throw percentage in the playoffs in NBA history, 34%. And you said he could shoot. And his stroke, it looks good. It's not like, you know, one hand is over the other and the ball is like. His stroke looks good. How would you fix that? Shoot.

Trust, trust the work you put in. If you come in and practice and you come in after practice and you come in late at night and you come in an offseason and you put the time in trust the work you put in and then guess what? Leave it to me that when they start hacking a Simmons or hacking a band, whatever you want to call it down the start hacking a Simmons or hacking a Ben, whatever you want to call it, down the stretch of a ball game, and I believe that you're hurting us and putting us in a position to lose a game, leave it to me to take you out. But I think you have to be able to go

through the process of losing some games, allowing him to gain confidence, and then instill the confidence in him. I trust you. Forget about what the media says. Forget about what the fans say. I trust you because at the end of the day, in order for us to win it all, I believe that you're going to step up there and make big fritos. He's done it. Right. He has absolutely done it, and he has the ability to do it. Mark, we've seen guys.

You and I have no problem speaking in front of the public. I've seen guys that can speak. You and I, we speaking, speaking, carrying on, having a great time. But if somebody else gets in front of them and somebody else hears it or a camera, they back up. So now I see him shooting in the gym. And you mentioned all that. But it's almost like, man, if I miss this, they're going to boo.

If I miss this. Unlike Giannis. Giannis air balls a three. Guess what he does? He gets the ball again, comes right back down and shoots it again. Looks like he made 10 in a row. Yeah. He air balls a free throw. Giannis goes, comes right back down and shoots it again. Looked like he made 10 in a row. Yeah. He air balls a free throw.

Giannis goes right back to the hoop, fouled me again. I'm going right back to the basket. Whereas Ben, like you fouled him, he misses a couple.

He's like, nah, you go ahead and take that. Right. And I've witnessed that firsthand. And sometimes you need a good hype man.

Sometimes you need a guy in your ear encouraging you, inspiring you, building you up, good hype man. Sometimes you need a guy in your ear encouraging you, inspiring you, building you up, and trusting you. And that could be the coach at times. Right. But sometimes I'd show the video. Okay, who is encouraging this guy?

Who's going up to the foul line and speaking a word to inspire him? You got this one. Yeah, who's doing that? Instead, everybody's looking around and nervous and staying away from him. You got this one. Yeah, you know, who's doing that? Instead, everybody's looking around and nervous and staying away from him. Right. We need to start building each other up individually and collectively. That's what a team is all about. Right.

And I don't see that. And it all of a sudden explodes when we see down the stretch, all of a sudden it's him and 20,000 people booing. And we know how Philadelphia fans are. Oh, man. I saw the news report. They're like, here's Ben Simmons leaving, and there was a trash can floating down and doing the flush.

I'm like, come on. That man see that high? He's supposed to come back and feel comfortable in the city when y'all call the man a trash can. He floating down the river. Absolutely. You know what? I'd show them, look at these numbers.

How many guys are doing what you're doing? Right. Look at what you've done on the defensive end. We looked at the closing game. Trae Young struggled. Right. It's because of Ben Simmons and the way he disrupted him defensively. We looked at the closing game with Trey Young struggled. It's because of Ben Simmons and the way he disrupted him defensively. How about showing that? So there's

a way to encourage him and sell him, you're a bad man. Now go out there and act like it. You mentioned the Nets. Can the Nets win a championship minus one of the big three? Yes. You believe it? Yes. Yes. I mean, those other two dudes, whoever the other two dudes are, are some serious problems that they create on a night-end basis. Right. So they have the ability every single time down the floor

to get a quality look. Right. And they are efficient basketball players. Whatever two you want to leave me with, they absolutely have the ability because they have the ability to have the two best players in any series in basketball. I think you need that tall guy, that seven-footer. He

got to be one of the two. He got to be one of the three. I agree with that. But they still have the ability to win, but if they have the seven-footer, they're the favorite. Yeah, because I don't know if we've ever seen, you've been around the game a lot longer than I have, I don't know if we've ever seen a team have three guys that on a given night can go get you 50. No.

You could say that, but we really didn't mean it. Right. These three guys have the ability to go get it. Legit go get you 50. Whenever they want. How does Russ fit in with the Lakers? We take Russ for granted. This guy has averaged a triple-double, I don't know how many years. Four out of five years. Four out of five years. When we were younger, and they said Oscar Robinson did it, we was like... It never happened again. It never happened again. I mean, I'll

humbly submit I was a guy that got a decent amount of triple-doubles, but if you told me I had a chance to do it for a season, I'd be like, man, you must be crazy. Right. You're out of your mind. Because of the effort that it takes, because now you've got to hustle to get rebounds, because the assist is because you're dependent of your mind. Because of the effort that it takes. Because now you've got to hustle to get rebounds. The assist is because you're dependent on someone else.

I think the hard part, if you're an NBA player and you play hard, you're going to get a double-digit point. I think points is the easy part. But when you've got to chase down rebounds as a 6'3 guard. The only reason I would argue with you is because this guy came into the league not as a point guard. It was a shocker for Oklahoma City to take him as high as they took him as a point guard. So give them credit.

Right. I played with him. The late, great Kobe Bryant had a camp, and at night we played in front of the kids. And Russell Westbrook was on my team. Right. And he came and got the ball. I'm like, yo, dude, you the two, I'm the one.

Right. Let me make the decision to get you to basketball. But he is a legitimate point guard. So I think the hardest thing for him was to go get those 10 assists every night. How many guys in the history of the game got 10 assists that were true play? He didn't come in that way. Right. So the easy part for him to chase down rebounds,

and people say, well, he chased down the rebound. Well, go get me a guy to go get 10 rebounds. I'm trying to find somebody that will chase down some rebounds and people say, well, he chased down the rebound. Well, go get me a guy to go get 10 rebounds. Yeah, you want to chase down some rebounds. So this guy's greatness has been taken for granted and he's going to fit in because he's an elite talent at as a first ballot Hall of Famer and he I'm happy for him because he's going to have a real chance playing with great talent to win more ad. How does ad factor because ad did not play last year. like he played his first year in L.A.

Now, I don't know what transpired. Everybody knows it was a fast turnaround. The championship was over in October, and you're playing again Christmas or whatever time that was. So you didn't have the normal rest period. And AD didn't look like he did. How does AD and LeBron and these guys, how do they come together and say, okay, we're going to contend for a chance.

I'm a no excuse guy and I understand the short turnaround. Everybody had a short turn exactly at the end of the day. What ad has to do is make sure and it's some of its, you know, he's gotten hurt. And he's a guy that has gotten hurt not just once but several times throughout the course of his career. He's got to stay healthy. and that's the main thing. When he's healthy and whole, he's an elite basketball player and does everything that put their team in position to win it all. So the thing to me, the only thing I would look at with him,

because when he's healthy, he's fine. He's dominant on the offensive end. He's dominant defensively. The ability to play one through five, that'll take care of itself. But the main thing for me is make sure that Anthony Davis is healthy. Mark, you played this game 17 years. You've commentated for almost two decades When you watch LeBron cuz I think people people like your home you listen LeBron Stan Oh, I didn't notice that people said about you. Did do we take LeBron for granted? Yes. Yes, we do

I mean I can remember playing for granted yes yes we do i mean i can remember playing for a team and lebron was in high school and he was on tv and i came into the locker room the next day and i said this guy is going to be special he's like no this guy is going to be hyped up and he's going to fall short because he they're giving him everything i'm like no no did you watch the guy i saw last night on tv he has no weaknesses in this game make a long story short, we go back, move forward all of these years later, and you look at his resume, all the things he's been able to accomplish individually and collectively, the different stops, the way he's made guys better. And the worst thing you can say about him is he got a Hummer when he was in

Cleveland and the decision. Are you kidding me? This guy is as good as it gets, and we truly take him for granted, the same way we do all of our greats. Right. But he's a guy that's done it the right way and continues to take pride in finishing the proper way. He should be celebrated and acknowledged. We truly do take him for granted. He's special.

We've never – because I think the thing is that we've never had a guy that is going to be top 10 in assists and can possibly be the all-time leading scorer in NBA history. And when you mention great scorers, LeBron James never comes up. You talk about KD. You talk about Harden. You talk

about Kobe. You talk about MJ. You talk about Will. You don't talk about LeBron James and here's, you talk about MJ, you talk about Will, you don't talk about LeBron James and here's a guy that's on the cusp of being the all-time leading scorer in NBA history. Think about it. This guy is going to be, if he stays healthy, going to be the leading scorer in NBA history.

Right. And I'm a point guard that's a past first point guard that played 17 years, and this guy will one day pass me as an assist man I would have been like there's no way in the world that's how great he is and I'm not talking about me being great I'm talking about the one gift that I did have right that couldn't be questioned with my ability to find guys right this guy will have done a better job than me and be the leading scorer in the history of the game I mean he is he is he is an incredible basketball player and it

it doesn't look like he's slowing down at all when he's healthy. He is dominating as usual. Well, why? Why isn't he appreciated or celebrated more? I think today we have the Internet and when you have the Internet, you have Instagram, you have Twitter, you have people, you know, just just everybody's an analyst. Everybody's a coach. Everybody's an NBA player. Now you can break down all the analytics and all that to the to his purest form and nitpick. This guy is a special all-time great, not just basketball player, but athlete that we've ever seen. And he's in the discussion with anybody you ever want to mention. And I just think we take them for granted and it's the easy thing to do to go on the other side and say, we've heard Giannis say that LeBron was the best player in the world.

We've witnessed these guys give credit to LeBron. Why won't everybody else? He is a special talent that will be in the discussion for anybody that's the best that have ever played this game and is in the discussion. You played in an era where they beat the literally could beat the hell out you and it was only a foul it wasn't no flagrant files it wasn't nobody getting suspended why is it so hard for eras to give different eras credit it seems like people from your era refused to give the guys in today's era oh he couldn't

play with us no no you're right but but don play with us. No, no, you're right. But don't you talk about me because I heard y'all football players too. No, for me, I will give credit. Aaron Donald is great. These guys are great. It's a different era. So it's hard to bring a guy here and put him there or there and bring him here. It is hard, and there's guys, quite honestly, I don't subscribe to that. There's haters

that you want to make it seem like, oh, back in our days we wouldn't have done this. At the end of the day, there are certain guys that certainly would not be the same player in our day that they are today. Right. Because the rules would affect them. Right. And then there are certain guys that you can put them in today's game. You can put them in the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the 60s, the 50s. LeBron James is LeBron James no matter when he played.

Right. Guess what? The great defenders that wanted to be physical and beat him up, we saw that. It's not like the Detroit Pistons of Chauncey and Rip and and Rashid and Ben Wallace and and Tayshaun it's not like they didn't try to beat him up. Right. He got 20 something in the fourth quarter and closed out a game attacking the rim going into the paint. He is a special talent and there's special guys that still have the ability to get it done today and certainly will be giving us the business in my day. What do you feel about the super teams?

The thing that I hear now, oh, Michael would have never joined Larry. Larry would have never joined Magic, this one or that one. It seems to me that there are always only a handful of teams that can really compete. When you look at the 80s, it was the Lakers, the Celtics, and the Sixers and the Sixers that was in the 80s ain't nobody else telling Houston went Houston went twice, but it was the bait mainly the Lakers in the Celtics, right? And nobody had a problem with that ain't nobody say ah man the NBA watered down a for two teams Yeah, but now it's like man ain't nobody else got no chance. We had a video game called Lakers versus something

That's how dominant it was think about today. You're not gonna pick two teams and that's the name of the video game. You don't think of an individual player. It's just I haven't I have no problem with super teams. People are right that magic wouldn't have joined bird bird wouldn't have joined magic and Michael would but they were loaded when you look at Larry Bird. Why should he go join somebody else? He's sitting there with Dennis Johnson, the late great Dennis Johnson Hall of Famer. Danny

Ainge, who's an outstanding shooting guard. McHale. Kevin McHale, who's as good as it gets at the powerful percentage. Hall of Famer. Robert Parrish is a Hall of Famer. Bill Walton on the bench. And then you look at Magic. He got Worthy, Byron Scott, Kareem, A.C. Green, Michael Thompson. These guys are loaded.

Jamal Will, Jamal McAdoo. Michael Cooper. What are we going to do but I know I'm there. Michael Cooper, what we're going to do, but I will say this. LeBron James changed the game and he doesn't get enough credit for that. He changed the game not only as a basketball player, but he changed the game as a businessman and he he allowed guys to realize the power that they are. I was on a team once. I'm not going to name the best player, Patrick Ewing. But we got on the bus, and Patrick Ewing said to the coach, you know,

because he had a car that he could drive after the game. So he said to the coach, I want to jump in the car. I'm not going to drive on the bus. You know, game over. The coach looked at Pat Ewing and said, big fella, I want you on the big bus. Pat came steaming, sitting on the back of the bus. Didn't realize the power. You're not disrespecting this coach by getting in the car after the game and driving off.

Right. Pat stayed on the bus. He didn't realize the power that he had. Right. LeBron James changed the game for guys to understand the power that they have as businessmen and making the right decision. So Kevin Durant decides I want to go to Golden State. It's all right. And Kevin Durant decides I want to leave Golden State and go to Brooklyn. It's all right. People realize it's their future,

their legacy, and they have to make the right decision. It seems to me that people are fine if the team put a super team together. Like, rest his soul, Coach Auerbach, he put the Celtics together. The great Jerry West, he put the Lakers together. That's fine. But, now, players, y'all shouldn't want to do that. But it's different. These guys, the AAU circuit, so everybody knows everybody.

I don't play it against you. Man, you're cool, man. What you think if we leak out? And so that's the way players are approaching it now. And it's totally different like you talked about AAU. When we got into the All-Star Game locker room or Summer League, what have you, we wasn't hanging out. I wasn't hanging out with Mike.

Even though Mike, good dude, and we've been around each other, I wasn't hanging out with him. I played with Patrick Ewing. When I got traded to around each other, I wasn't hanging out with him. I played with Patrick Ewing. When I got traded to the Pacers, I wasn't hanging out with Patrick. Y'all didn't go to dinner with you? No, no, we didn't go to dinner. I'm ready to hand you your head. And guess what?

There's a side of me, well, there's a whole side of me that that was wrong. This is my guy. This is my brother. So I appreciate what these guys are doing today because at the end of the day we can go because the coaches and management was watching. Oh, you went to eat with Pat? Oh, you ain't serious about this. So they put that in your mind. I can go to eat with Pat Ewing. Guess what? We can go eat right now and then an hour from now after joking and eating and we're full, we can go play one-on-one. I know you're going to try to give me

the business and I'm going to try to do the same thing to you. Right. And then we can go to dinner the next day. That was stripped away from us because of the way that they instilled it to us. That's not how you do it. But that's not how they did it with Mike. Mike was playing golf with guys the day before the game, and then he go out there and bust them up.

Mike was. The psychological warfare. Mike, there's no question about it. There's no question about it. There's no question about it. And took full advantage of the psychological warfare and knew who to utilize it on. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news previews recaps and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee no dumb hot takes here just smart hot takes we'll

talk every single game every single week but i can't do it alone so i'm bringing in the big guns from nfl media that's patrick claybon steve weish nick shook jordan rodrigue from the athletic and of course colleen wolf this is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day.

Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that listen now on the iHeartRadio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast give me your give me your five best players today the five best players oh man off the top of my head yeah in no order? No order. LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Giannis, Steph Curry. Who am I forgetting?

You got Dame, you got Joel Embiid, you got Nikola Jokic, you got Kyrie, you got Harden. I'm going to say James Harden. Again, look at the numbers this guy consistently puts up and has put up. And people say, well, he hasn't won. Well, what was he supposed to win? You know, other than one time maybe. Okay, see, it's like second or third year. Yeah, yeah.

Or when Houston had the lead against. Golden State and Chris Paul Hamstring went out. Okay, yeah. So, he is a guy that we also take for granted. I mean, think about it. The assist of this guy, a natural born scorer. Yes. Is averaging year in and year out.

Right. I mean, he's an incredible basketball player that doesn't get enough credit. And should be a multiple time MVP award winner. You played. I'm looking at the guys, some of the guys that you played with. When you're playing with those guys, what what is it like to be playing with a historically great player? You know, when you play play I play with John Elway play with Ray Lewis I play with Jonathan Ogden.

At the time I'm a good player myself. I know I'm like hey play with Rob Wilson Gary Zimmer guys in the Hall of Fame. What is it like. You know I hear Charles Barker said play with great players

makes your job easier when you play with these great players. What's going through your mind? You're doing a good job. By the way, down playing Shannon sharp. I'm just saying I watch I'm well aware that the guys that you name felt the same way about what you brought to the

table appreciate as a talent to but you realize no matter who you face, whether it's Michael Jordan, whether it's Charles Barkley, whether it's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Larry Bird, whoever it is. When you're in the locker room with a guy like Reggie Miller or Patrick Ewing, that I was fortunate to be with those guys, or in college with Chris Mullin or Walter Berry. That 84 team was special. We were absolutely special.

Y'all was special. We should have won a national championship, but that's another story for another day. I was going to get to that. We're going to get to that. But when you look at Michael Jordan in the other locker room and Reggie Miller sitting alongside of you or Patrick Ewing, you're thinking to yourself, we got this.

Not because they're better than Michael Jordan, but I believe that these guys can play them to a standstill. So, Pat, Michael Jordan get 35. Pat, you can go get 35. Reggie Millen will get 35. So, now, if the rest of us can do our job, it gives you life. It's easy to figure out how we're going to beat them because if we can outplay the rest of these dudes, we can go get it done.

They give you life. They give you an edge mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually and convince yourself that we can go get it done. That's what greatness ultimately does. We know what he became when you're playing against Michael Jordan. Did you realize he was that good and 20 years 30 years later, he's still going to be talked about like he's talked about. Did you realize that when you're playing it?

Yeah. Yeah. You knew it. You knew it. He was, he was just a different dude. He was just a different dude. And, and like I said, we felt we were the better basketball team. Right.

And, and you think about it, Scotty Pippen is an all-time great top 50 player will be a top 75 player is in the discussion for, you know, when you're talking about the greatest small forwards that ever played this game and deserves a lot of credit. Early on, though, he wasn't that Scottie Pippen. Right. He had to develop into that guy. Michael Jordan single-handedly won series.

I can remember in 1991, my last year with the Knicks, we were beating them up. We had physical guys at every single position and we were we were we were Charles Xavier McDaniel. Yeah, Charles Smith wasn't on the team, but we were loaded. Yes, and we were we were on a mission to physically right beat them up. Michael Jordan single-handedly and and and Tony Kukos played good Scottie Pippen play good. But the the feeling of having number 23 on your team did something to them he's single-handedly won the series it's

something about having a suit a guy that you know no matter what they do man this guy here can supersede anything y'all do it right can have a team right he can trump that by he's a big Joker yeah yeah that's what he is you can have you joker. You can have Hayes, the king, the queen, but whoever got that big joker. When it drops, it's a wrap. It's a wrap. And we went over it in the scouting report. We said how we were going to defend him. We said how we were going to send him in different directions.

It didn't matter. He had an answer for every single thing we put forth. And physically, he was more than willing to go through whatever he had to go through to win. All-time great competitor. The only guy that I would put in the discussion, because both of these guys, unfortunately, the late, great Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, in my opinion, the two guys I ever played against that was willing to leave it all on the court. And I didn't mean it all. the two guys I ever played against that was willing to leave it all on the court.

And I didn't mean it all. They were willing to, if it meant drop dead on the floor, those two guys, I'm convinced, would be willing to do that for the victory. Now, I would say this. As great as a competitor as I am, that ain't my testimony. I want to win, but not at all costs. Not at that expense. I'm not willing to take my last breath and win. You was in college when Mike was in college.

Did you see Michael Jordan, the Mike Jordan in college, becoming the Michael, the MJ, the air, the logo? Did you see him becoming that in the NBA? No. And I had a guy I grew up with in Kenny Smith played on that North Carolina team. We played him in Madison Square Garden. And they're talking about Michael Jordan, he's special, and he's this. We played him.

I mean, he was very good. Right. He was very, very good. Right. But if you ask me that I think that that guy would wind up being. That guy. That guy. No.

Who could? Right. But he's, my goodness, he's a different animal. He is an absolute different animal and a guy that and you look at you look at on another note, you look at all the greats, whether it be singing, acting they take their last breath, they close their last eye. And we should acknowledge just exactly what he's meant and put us all in position to be successful as basketball players, as human beings, and should be celebrated more. You mentioned that, like the child. Michael Jackson, you knew as a child, as he was rising, when he became adult, and you knew eventually he was going to go on his own, he was going to be special.

Like LeBron, you watch him growing up, middle school, high school, you said you knew he would be special. Some people, you just know. You know the first time you was on TV, I remember, it was the other network. I remember. And you were watching and like, oh, somebody's going to sign this dude. You just knew it. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not stroking you.

I'm telling you the truth. You just knew you had it. Right. And you have taken that opportunity and propelled it into now, you know, making history on your own off the field. You know when special people have it. Right right, the people that you name, they have it. It should be recognized as we celebrate it, not hated on but appreciated.

Are the are the players today? Are they more skilled? I'm not saying they're better. Are they more skilled than players? A yes. Well, you good at this. I thought I was gonna come here and chill and just, you know, some throwaway lines and we gap up and get on out of there. But you put you putting the pressure on me, man. I will say this. Today's players are certainly more athletic, more skilled shooting handling, more versatile. The one thing that they are not, they're not as smart.

Why do you say that? And it's not a not because in a lot of... And you're not mean books since you're talking about the basketball. No, no, no, right. Accu. Because I didn't have the athleticism, the quickness, the explosiveness, I had to become smarter than everybody else on the floor. Right.

So I studied the game at seven years old, at eight years old. I knew inside out whatever situation you put me in, I knew how to respond and how to have an answer. That didn't mean I'd have the answer, but I knew what the answer was. I don't think because these guys are so athletic, so versatile, so explosive, so fast, I don't think they have to lean on the same smarts or understanding that we had to growing up. It's a credit to how far they've come as basketball players,

but now you have to match the talent with the smarts. You were in Golden State, and you should get credited for laying the foundation of what the Warriors became, almost like what Tony Dungy was doing in Tampa and Gruden came in and finished it off. Steve Kerr came in.

He's doing a great job not to minimize Steve Kerr because he's done a great job building on the foundation that you established. But in practice, you're watching Steph and you're watching Clay shoot the basketball and you said this is the greatest backcourt shooting basketball the NBA has ever seen and people laughed at you. They called you crazy. They say Mark Jackson just started like that because they're on his team. What was it about what you were witnessing practice that make you so sure

they were going to be able to carry this over come game time. The way they practice the way they prepared how serious they took their gift. It was an easy call for me. And to close that statement, after I made the statement, I said it ain't even close. If you don't believe me, call my bluff. I wasn't sitting there lying. I believed everything I said based on the facts

that I witnessed every single day. And I still don't think it's close. The closest as a tandem, statistically, people say Jerry West and Gail Goodrich. I say the closest statistically is John Stockton and Jeff Hornacek. Right. One's a great shooter in Hornacek. Efficiency-wise, John Stockton's a great shooter, but he's not in the class as those guys. Right.

Steph Curry and Klay Thompson are incredible basketball shooters, right? They have a gift at it, right? I don't think it's close. I absolutely don't think it's close. So that was an easy call for me. And the difference is those guys are shooting from distance. The two guys that you mentioned were more of a mid-range. I mean, they could shoot the three, but they were more of a mid-range 10 to 15 feet.

You're talking about Steph Curry. A lot of his points are coming from 22, 23 feet. That was ridiculous. It was ridiculous how well they shoot the basketball. Are you surprised how, when you got to Golden State, did you know Steph Curry was that good? Before I got there, I was calling games. So I had the luxury of doing some Warrior

games. The time slot fits them. Well, even though they were not good at the time, right? The time slot fit them. So I was doing some Warrior games for ESPN and got a chance to call the games. I'm sitting there like matter of fact, I did a Duke-Davison game right? Curry was at Davidson in his senior year in college, or his last year in college. My partner says to me,

I don't think he'll be a good NBA player. I don't think he's a point guard in the NBA. I looked at him and said, Jeff Van Gundy, by the way, I don't mean to name drop him, but he's on record saying that. I'm sitting there like, no, this guy is a starting point guard today. He's going to be a top-notch talent in the league.

He's special and I watched him as a young kid because I played with his dad in Toronto with the Raptors and he'd come with his brother Seth and they shoot after practicing before and you know, Del Curry say my kids going to be everybody says about their kids. Exactly, but didn't lie and the best thing about both of those guys incredible human beings absolute joy not only the coach because of their talent but because of their commitment because of their competitive drive and because of who they are as people but you know steph is a blessing and a curse because he now it used to be guys

was always trying to dunk now he got seven years old running behind the three-point line jacket up threes. Yeah, and I took heat. I took heat because I said, you know, Steph Curry's ruined the game. Yeah, people thought I was taking a shot at Steph Curry and I'm glad I had a chance to you know, explain it to him because I'm foolish enough to believe what everybody get what I'm trying to say. Right? Basically what you just said right was a remix version of it. Right? Absolutely. I'm going to I'm going to youth games. I had kids. My kids was young. I'm trying to say. Basically, what you just said was a remixed version of it. Absolutely. I'm going to youth games.

I had kids. My kids was younger. I'm going to their games, and kids are jacking up shots like they're Steph Curry. Those are horrible shots. And the first thing they do, they come off the bench, and they're shooting shots. And instead of making a move going to the cup, they're shooting heaves from half court. I'm like, this is awful basketball. This guy has a gift and he has the ability to make that shot. That's like me. I'd be ruining

the game if I go and take that shot. I'm not Steph Curry. And I should not try to be Steph Curry. I should try to be the best player that I could possibly be. And people were thinking it because he made it look so easy that they could do it. They lied to themselves. He made it look so easy that they could do it. They lied to themselves. When I look at the NBA and say five years, ten years from now, who are some of the guys you believe will be the phase? We got LaMelo, we got Luka, we got Trey Young, we got Jason Tatum, Zion, Book, Ja.

I will say this, the NBA is in great hands. Yes. When you look at the talent, the young talent in the game today, when you look at the talent coming up, when you look at the way that they do a great job of developing in the G League, outstanding group of talented basketball players. The one guy that you named to me, I think very well could very well be on the top 75 player

list. It comes out pretty soon and people say, well, it will they be a sleeper that's young, but Luca Donchic is the real deal. When you look at what he's been able to do early on in his career. He is he's got you think you'll be top 75. If it was me voting. Yeah, he's on the list because of because of because of I'm not I'm not a guy that's pointing,

I don't want to point at anybody on the top 50 list, but he's better than some of those guys. Right. And I watch some of those guys. Right. So I respect him. I appreciate him. You hear that, Skip?

Because I call him, he's the closest thing that I've seen to Bird. I say, that's not, I mean, and you know, obviously we're taking race into the equation. But I said, Bird mean, and you know, obviously we're talking, taking race into the equation, but I said Bird was a 24, 10 and six career guy. I said, he could move. It's not like Luka's gonna win a foot race with anybody, but he could, Bird could get to any spot that he wanted to and hit you with that step back fade away.

Size, strength, toughness, competitive spirit, not afraid of the bright lights. And what you just said, well, you and I can argue and Skip can argue, one of Larry Bird's best friends in life is Rick Carlisle. Right. The former coach of the Dallas Mavericks. Right. Who made the statement comparing Luka to Bird.

Right. I'm not comparing nobody to Reggie Miller unless they're the real deal. Right. I'm not comparing somebody to Pat Ewing unless they're the real deal. Right. If I say it compared to one of those guys, that's my guy. Right. You better take it to the deal. Right. I'm not comparing somebody to Pat Ewing unless they're the real deal. Right. If I said compared to one of those guys, that's my guy. Right. You better take it to the bank.

Right. That's what I said because you look at him and you, he ain't chiseled. I mean, you look at LeBron. LeBron got like a grown man, big body. Right. I mean, can leap out the gym. Right. I mean, and I'm looking at him and I'm watching him.

And elite defenders. Right. I mean, Kawhi looking at him and I'm watching him and elite defenders. Right. I mean, Kawhi is an elite defender. PG is an elite defender. That's what I got. Draymond is an elite defender. And he's going getting 30 and 40 like it ain't nothing. When he matched up against the Clippers in the playoffs, I'm sitting there saying Kawhi, Paul George, Pat Beverly. Yeah. They got guys. Morris. They got guys that is not only going to defend them, but they're going to try to beat him up. Right? And I want to see how he's going to respond because I'm not sure he's ever faced this type of pressure defensively and he's about to face right. He put on

a clinic almost like they were little kids trying to defend right where he he imposed his will on them and took everything that they had to offer and was the best player. on them and took everything that they had to offer and was the best player. I had the margin rolls at all and I said best get back best basketball players come out of New York and LA.

He said LA I know I turn the TV off. I didn't see the rest of the interview, but I watched up to that point as soon as he said LA. I just as much as I enjoy it. I had to shut off. You still believe the best players come out of NYC? I think historically. Yeah. Now, today, that's a different story. Right. Just like in the Dream Team, the rest of the world has caught up.

Right. They've tried to emulate some of the things that we've been able to do, handling the basketball and the toughness, competitiveness, and you have guys all around the country coming out. Not only that, New York players now, they leave and go to prep school, right? So so we don't have the same license as far as you don't say they're from New York. Now, they may be from somewhere else, right? Even though their technique from New York, right? But historically, New York City has had the best basketball players. The guy on the top of the all-time leading. Yeah. I mean, you

got Kareem. I mean, what you say Kareim is shut down from there i'm saying michael jordan was born in brooklyn i mean what do you want me to say so i would say historically the best ever play is new york city guys your younger brother street ball and one legend escalade 6 10 375 handle the rock a rock. What made him special, be able to handle a rock like his older brother? Well, I mean, I get emotional, and you can understand the love of a brother. Yes. And this was my younger brother,

so he's same parents, married 40 years. My sister's a year younger than me. I guess one day, my mom and dad got a little frisky. Nine years removed. All of a sudden, here we got a little brother on the way. So he was a guy that had the luxury of being young enough to travel and come to games and being Madison Square Garden and be around the game of basketball as a ball boy for the Knicks. games and being mad at Square Garden and be around the game of basketball as a ball boy for the Knicks. So he was exposed to it. Right. So he wasn't always big. Right. So handling the basketball came easy to him. Right. And the way he came big was my dad, since he was the last one,

spoiled him. So it went from McDonald's, whatever we're going to eat on Fridays because it's payday. Right. I'm going to take everybody to go get something to eat. Now it's not everybody. on fridays because it's payday right i'm gonna take everybody to go get something to eat now it's not everybody it's just destroy so now one big mac turns into two big macs so all of a sudden he goes from a small kid to a big kid but i tell you what i i miss him every single day i'm extremely extremely proud of uh not not just the basketball player that he became the legend that he became uh but more importantly when i go around and people say the things he did to people right the words he said to people right way encourage and inspire folks. I remember one day going to the

mall with him and I knew he arrived at this point because I'm in the mall with him and somebody come running up and say you mind if I get a picture and you know, I'm like sure no problem at all this thing. No, not you escalate. They asked me. They asked me to take the picture. He could have gone on I get a picture, you know, I'm like sure no problem at all. It's not you escalate They asked me to take the picture he could have gone on to heaven at that moment and he'd have been happy but I'm proud of them and I miss him every single day mark When I look when I think about it the way the guys in the NBA handle the ball They get that from a and one the street ball the way skip to my Lou and hot sauce

Yeah, the way Steph Curry and Kyrie. Yeah. By the way, Kyrie got the best handles in NBA history. And they've had – Ross Strickland had handles. Zeke had handles. Zeke had handles. You had some handles. Who's the guy?

The Utah Jazz great. Pistol Pete, man. Pistol Pete, yeah. Y'all can't do nothing with Kyrie. Kyrie, Kyrie. Man, Kyrie got that thing on the string. Kyrie is an incredible wall handler. The one guy I would probably put into discussion is Isaiah

because you can look at old clips of Isaiah as a little kid putting on a clinic. Zeke coming out of the court, walking him down behind his back. But Kyrie, absolutely. The things he does, the ability to handle with both hands, finish in a variety of ways with both hands. Over anybody. It's absolutely special. But I do agree, and God, Sham God is another guy.

Yes. The stuff that they were able to do that guys took off the playgrounds and put it into NBA games, it's special. I wouldn't even try half of that stuff. You're from Brooklyn. Was it always your goal to play college ball in NYC, or did you think about leaving? Well, I'm from Brooklyn.

Born in Brooklyn the first seven years of my life. I'm the one guy that can claim both places because I left Brooklyn at seven, moved to Queens, and then living in Queens, went to high school in Brooklyn, an hour and a half away. I didn't... Once I was being recruited, I'm a guy that's extremely close to my family.

I want to be around my family. So it became a no-brainer that I was not going to go far. And then sitting with Coach Conaseca, who in the middle of October is receiving a statue at St. John's University, well-deserved, and I'm going to be there for that. But sitting in the room with him, him looking my parents in the eyes and making a commitment to me and believing in me, it was a no-brainer

because I knew he was a better person than he was a basketball coach, and he's a Hall of Fame basketball coach. But I still call him coach to this day, and at 96 years old, he'll call me and have a regular conversation with me, still checking on me. That's the relationship you want to have with the coach exactly i'm embarrassed when i watch these high school coaches these au coaches not having relationships my son's high school coach or two of my son's high school coach walk in the gym and there's no relationship he should be embarrassed at that right it should be i love you for life because of what you poured into me. Right? Well, I mean, well, if it gets, handling the basketball, scoring toughness,

so good that as I visited Syracuse and I sat in Jim Boeheim's office the day after the visit and I said, I'm ready to commit because you've got 30,000 people in the arena. Right. I want to be here. This was incredible. Carry the dog. He said, I appreciate that, but if I was you, I wouldn't come in. I'm like, what? He said, if I was you, I wouldn't come in. I'm like, what?

He said, if I was you, I wouldn't come in. I'm like, excuse me? He says, well, we have Pearl Washington. I said, I know you got Pearl. I'm a New York City kid. Brad, you got it. I do what I do. I'm going to force you to play us together.

Right. And he's like, I appreciate the confidence. But I'm like, why am I on this visit? But it shows you the greatness of Pearl Washington and how special he was. So I made the right decision to go to St. Johnson proud as a New Yorker to watch Pearl and the things he does. He was able to do in the Big East tournament in Mass Square Garden against Georgetown, the pressure handling the basketball.

He was a special special talent and a class dude. I mentioned you were Rookie of the Year. You were in the 87 draft. You played on that great St. John's team. I think that might have been one of the few times that three teams from one conference made it to the Final Four. Yeah. You've said you felt Walter Barrett. People don't realize.

I think Walter was Player of the Year. We had Back-to-Back Player of the Year. Yeah, Walter and Chris Mullins felt Walter Barrett. People don't realize. I think Walter was player of the year. We had back-to-back player of the year. Yeah, Walter and Chris Mullins and Walter Barrett. You said you believe you should have won the national championship that year. What happened? I gave credit to Coach, 96-year-old, loved him to death. Loved him to death. And he's coached forever.

We all make mistakes as coaches. Right. And I believe that I should have played more, especially starting the second half. coach forever. We all make mistakes as coaches, right? And I believe that I should have played more especially starting the second half the way that the Georgetown defense was was defending us that day was keeping everything away from Chris Mullin. Right? We were pretty robotic right trying to make plays and still get them involved. The one thing that I

had was the ability to make a play and force help and then get them to basketball. Right? And I thought that that wasn't I'm not hating. It was it was a mistake. We all thing that I had was the ability to make a play and force help and then get them the basketball. Right. And I thought that that wasn't my hating. It was it was a mistake. We all make my I've made mistakes. Right. But I think looking back if I would have played more, we'd had a better chance but Georgetown was number one half the year. We were number one the other half of the year. Great great battles. The only thing you look back at Villanova wins in

that Championship. Yeah, the biggest upset probably still to this day to this day back at, Villanova wins the Navigations Championship. Yeah. The biggest upset probably. Still to this day. To this day. We beat Villanova three times that year. So that's the frustrating thing that we shouldn't have had to play Georgetown. Right. In the semifinals. But proud to be a member of the Big East during those years.

And loaded, loaded, top to bottom with great teams historic talent and historic coach that first team all Big East that had to be some kind of team man loaded you're talking about Hall of Famers yeah loaded absolutely and and every single night no matter who you played it was a battle right and it was a robbery it wasn't like oh you're playing Georgetown you got to be ready you got to play Villanova you got to play sir you would top the bottom right on face somebody every single night. You go to the league. What's your what's your NBA moment? When did you know like man, this is I'm an NBA. This is different. This is I'm playing for I ain't I'm no longer playing for meal plan. I'm no longer playing for books.

I'm playing for mortgages. I'm glad but you know kids tuition one day, right? for books. I'm playing for mortgages. I'm glad but you know kids tuition one day, right? I would just say the first time you step on the floor, you know, I was holding out initially, and we had veteran guards and Rory Sparrow and Gerald Henderson. Both guys played 10 plus years in the league. Gerald Henderson won a championship. The Jordan stopper. Played 10 plus years in the league. Gerald Henderson won a championship. The Jordan Stopper?

There's no Jordan Stopper. No, that's Gerald Wilkins. Gerald Wilkins, Gerald Wilkins. Pat Riley said, we're not going to say anything to Jordan just to go back. We're not going to say anything. We're going to beat him, and then at the end we're going to say something. We look at the headlines next day in the paper. Gerald Wilkins, I'm the Jordan Stopper.

Dude, didn't the coach just say don't say anything? Didn't he say don't say anything? You made me go off on a tangent. But I'll say this. When I sat down and watched, because I wasn't practicing, I watched those guys on the court, and I'm like, man, this is a different level. Right. I got to make sure I'm right.

Right. And then no matter who you're facing, a guy that you thought you were better than, they have the ability in this league to give you the business. Magic Johnson announced that he had tested HIV positive. Right. And we were playing the Lakers that night. Right. And I'm like, I'm shattered. I'm staying in my hotel room because Earl Monroe was the guy that I looked up to.

Right. After Earl Monroe retired, it was Magic Johnson as a point guard for me. That's it. The best point guard that this game has ever seen. Right. So I'm sitting in my hotel room with my head looking at the ceiling. I'm like my head's gone. We

play the Lakers tonight. My guy Magic just gave an announcement. Right. And back then we're thinking it's a death sentence. Right. We're thinking it's over. Yeah. I'm shattered as a kid. But to make a long story short. Now

we play the Lakers at night and Sadal three is starting for Magic Johnson. Right. That's Threat is starting for Magic Johnson. Right. That's a big drop-off from Magic Johnson to Sedell Threat, with all due respect. Sedell Threat gave us 40-plus. Gave us the business.

Gave us the absolute business. There's nothing we could have done. We threw everything at him, but he was on fire. That's the difference between playing AAU ball, high school ball, JV ball college ball everybody in uniform has the ability to give you the best that's what I tell people people won't say oh this guy's a superstar he should be able to do this that guy get paid to I say every professional athlete has the ability to

make every other professional athlete in that sport look foolish yeah then if you don't build your ass say look you respect everyone you underestimate no no one and you should be okay but the moment same thing happened to me i went out there this guy well he got injured i said oh i'm about to get this joke in the business i took it for granted three catches and 15 yards later that'll never happen to me again that's right so you learn early on if he'll perfect he got got a uniform. That's right. He can make you look foolish. I'm going to my son's games Before the pandemic hit and Nick Young. Yeah, it was out of the league is playing in the game and everybody said He's done. He's washing. I'm like Nick Young is not playing hard against y'all

My son knew better because he's been around it. But but this they're sitting there thinking old Nick Young can't play he's done Go to next week Nick Young got 50. He's toying with, but they're sitting there thinking, oh, Nick Young can't play. He's done. Go to next week, Nick Young got 50. He's toying with these people. Right. You think Nick Young's the bum. No, with all due respect, y'all are the bums. Nick Young is an NBA talent that can toy and play around and do what he want out of you.

Right. When you play with Oakley, and Oakley brought a certain physicality to the game. Oakley was no nonsense. I've known Oakley 25 years. And the Oakley that you see on the court was the Oakley off the court. That's right. He ain't about no BS. That's right. You know where you stand with Oakley. If Oakley mess with you, Oakley mess with you. If Oakley don't mess with you, he don't mess with you. And he mess with both of us. So we good. Yeah. Yeah. We good. We good.

Wasn't like playing with Oak. It's great great it's absolutely great because of what you said the problem is if i got to figure you out right are you with me or against me are you my boy you're not my boy with oak you know exactly where you stand exactly and there's no nonsense i know we go into battle he gonna lay it out on the line right he's a guy that's no nonsense. He's a professional. He's the ultimate team player. He's outstanding underrated all-time great defender. Yes, and he's a guy that has has toughness and that toughness becomes contagious all throughout the lineup. He's a winner and he's a guy that we take for granted also because

he's not today's typical power forward. He was yesterday's powerful, but he was he was a joy to play with. And just a guy that really, really wore the New York Knicks uniform with pride and stood for everything that New York City people stood for. And that's why he was embraced and celebrated. You guys, the Knicks, when you had Oak, you had Xavier McDaniel, you had Mason, you had yourself, you had Patrick.Daniel, you had Mason, you had yourself, you had Patrick.

Did you guys adopt that bad boy? Just like, look, we're going to play football on the basketball court. You got to give credit to the genius of Pat Riley, who's one of the great coaches in all of sports, historically. He went from showtime, running gun,

fast breaking, Los Angeles Lakers championship winning team. We thought when he came to the New York Knicks, oh, we're going to be Showtime now. I'm sitting there like, well, I'm going to be throwing. Yeah, you're going to be throwing no long bounce pass at half court. From the first day he let us know this is how we're going to do it. We're going to do it with toughness. And we had rules and rules that had to be recognized and applied to.

No layups. We basically, if you had an open layup and I'm next to you and I allow you to get that layup, it's a fine, a substantial fine. And it wasn't from Pat Riley or management. It was the players. We took care of it ourselves. So we held each other accountable and we became the mentality of, we're going to hammer folks.

We're going to be very physical. If we're going to hammer folks we can be very physical if we're going to beat the Chicago Bulls because we knew we were better than everybody else with all due respect and there was some great teams but we were loaded if we're going to beat them we have to be physical and I believe losing game seven in 91 in the Eastern Conference Finals to the Chicago Bulls I believe and Pat Raleigh has said it, and Dave Checketts, who was our GM at the time, our president at the time, has stated it. If we keep that team together, we win a championship.

I believe that wholeheartedly. What broke it up? I was traded. Okay. I believe that ultimately, and it's documented, and it ain't about me, it's just that the complete team, I believe we came back ready's documented and it ain't about me. It's just that the complete team. I believe we came back ready and understood a year better and

it is a process that you go through but they believe we need a scoring at the power forward position. So I was traded for Doc Rivers and Charles Smith who was a 6'10 scoring power forward that gave versatility complementing Charles Oakley and gave a scoring guy alongside of Patrick Ewing. Ultimately, they didn't win. But I think if you kept that team together, we wouldn't have won it at all. But could you play that style of basketball in the NBA now? Yes. The physicality, the way you guys played it. Yes. I think you have to pick and choose your spots. Guess what? Draymond Green is

in the league. And Draymond Green is in the league and Draymond Green is a dominant defensive player, and he's not being nice a lot. He's being very physical so you can play it. You have to have the mentality and the stick to it in this to make sure that if I get a call against me, I'm not going to stop. I'm gonna keep my foot on the gas pedal. I'm be physical and I'm gonna make

the proper adjustments to get away with just enough that I can get away with but mark You know how you guys play they were snatching folks out the air. Yeah, that was that was that was Kevin McHale That was a little bit earlier. We but yeah the way you the Knicks and yeah, we were physical We were the way you guys played man y'all be down on each other We were physical we were very physical and not even the physical plays that you could see and then the hand checking that you couldn't see. Right. Dennis Johnson would guard you and have his hand on your hip directing you where he wanted you to go. Right. That strength, that mobility, that versatility. It was special, but it took advantage of the rules. Right. I think that players were smart enough that they made have made the proper adjustment to do just enough. The same way

these guys do today. You call something a travel, okay, now they do a different one-two step. That bounces a different way that they get away with. They cheat the system because they're so crafty and so talented. The Pacers. You go to the Pacers, you play in the Lakers, 2000. Shaq

at his apex. Kobe Bryant now is Kobe Bryant as we know it. You took him six games. What did you learn about your team, and what did you learn about that Lakers team? We should have won. Y'all should have beaten them? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was a 2-3-2. Yes. So we had, we won game three, and we lost game four in overtime. Right. Shaq fouls out, and the late, great Kobe Bryant single-handedly takes over the game in fourth quarter in overtime. And, I mean, we did everything we could. I can remember saying to Reggie Miller, because he hit a couple of shots,

I'm like, let me get him. I'm just foolish, thinking I could do something. But I'm not thinking I'm going to stop them. I'm thinking I'm going to hammer him one good time and send a message and get him out of his rhythm. I hammer him. Nice. Basket and one. He's at the line.

I'm like, Red, you got him. It ain't working. But we were good enough because we had depth at the power forward position. We had a center that was a weapon that can take advantage of Shaquille O'Neal's flaws, the ability to defend the pick and roll. So every time in the pick and roll, we're going to get a shot off of Rick Smith, where he's a jump shooting big man that can post up and score. So we were a perfect matchup.

Jalen Rose, 6'9", versatility at the small forward position. Chris Mullen. So we had the depth and the versatility. At the end of the day, they had two dudes that was unstoppable. That was absolute. And you look at the numbers that Shaquille O'Neal put forth in that finals. It was crazy. It was ridiculous.

It was ridiculous. They had two dudes that's all-time greats. Did you know in that series that Kobe was going to become what he became? Yes. And the reason why is because I can remember talking to Reggie Miller and Reggie Miller living in L.A. would say he was shooting, I believe, a commercial. And it was Reggie Miller and Kobe Bryant shooting the commercial.

And during the time of the break of the commercial, Reggie said, Kobe said, let's play some one-on-one. Just, you know, get a workout in the middle of the summer. So Reg's like, cool. They play some one-on-one just you know get a workout in the middle of the summer so Reg's like cool they play in one-on-one Reg shoot a jumper knocks it down gets the ball back jab step jab step jumper knocks it down all of a sudden he looked like he sees Kobe and in Kobe's eyes it almost looked like they were back in the finals because Kobe's thinking this ain't chill mode one-on-one. I'm getting ready to go at you.

And Kobe begins to put on an absolute clinic in the one-on-one against Reggie Miller. Right. He took it. It's just he only had one gear. And then after Kobe plays Reggie Miller one-on-one, he then pulls Reggie inside and said, show me how you do that jab step jumper. Show me how you come off the screen.

So he has enough competitive drive to battle him in a one-on-one scenario, but enough humility. He has something that. You got something that I can utilize. And I'm not full of myself to think, I'm not going to present it and try to learn it from you. I'm going to show humility and I'm going to ask you about it and put it into

my game and that's why he became a special talent that we we became the way you say that and he said Kobe asked Reggie well how you do the pump fake how you come off screens a lot of big guys a lot of guys not just big a lot of guys have gone to work with a king Elijah one but basically only one guy has ever gotten an opportunity to work out with Jordan like Jordan like got the secret sauce like the uh uh out with Jordan. Like Jordan got the secret sauce, the KFC secret recipe,

or what the secret sauce is on the Big Mac. That thing closely guarded. Why do you think that is? Old school. Old school. Y'all chasing me. I'm sitting at the top of the hill. You're trying to chase me.

And it's just a competitive drive and spirit that he's had that made him Michael Jordan. I'm not trying to chase me. And it's just a competitive drive and spirit that he's had that made him Michael Jordan. Right. I'm not trying to deliver. But to his credit, when you look at the tragedy with Kobe Bryant. Michael Jordan showed. Just what he deposited into Kobe Bryant and into the game future. We just didn't acknowledge we just didn't see it because it wasn't on camera. Right. But he did it. Yes. But he did it in his own way. Right. And it really blessed me to watch him get emotional, talk about it. Right. And also acknowledge this guy was like a little brother. Right. All the things he's accomplished. People thought we were this. Right. But we were we were together. Right. So so it was it was special. Some of

the toughest guys that you played against the era. Obviously the 80 with Bird Magic, Jordan, Isaiah, you got the 90s. I don't know. I think you probably miss LeBron. You miss LeBron. No, LeBron is my which is crazy. My first year is LeBron's. My last year is LeBron's first. Okay, so you you you you got an opportunity to see a lot of them. Who's hardest to defend? Mike and Kobe. I mean, from a guard standpoint, yes, I didn't have

to go down and defend Shaquille O'Neal, Reem Abdul-Jabbar. But Mike and Kobe just thinking and Kobe just thinking attack every single moment on the floor and the mentality and the way they wear you down with their approach would be the two guys I would say. And being in the Eastern Conference all those years facing the Bulls and facing Mike, I mean it was in our prime. We had every business to believe we were better. Those two guys are the front runners for me. How would Jordan do in today's game? Because I've heard a lot of people, man, Jordan average 60. Jordan would average 70. Nah, man, I promise you, Jordan going to get 45.

In today's game, the rules as they are, how would Jordan do and how many points do you believe he would average? I don't think anybody's averaging 60 or 70. Okay. I mean, those days are over with. Nobody's going to get Will's 50 a game, huh? Not 50 a game. No, that's not going to happen.

But I will say this. Michael Jordan would average whatever he want to average. You believe he can get 40 a night? Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah, there's no question about it. 40 a night, Mark. 40. Yeah. How can. I mean, yeah, if yeah, there's no question about 40 a night. Yeah. How you gonna get 40? If you go, I'm not here to break it down and decipher it. I'm telling you as a witness, I'm testifying on behalf of Michael

Jeffrey Jordan that he would average 40 a night. If we see guys average in 30, right? And 35 with all due respect that don't have the arsenal that he has offensively. Well, you know you have to add that three ball. You got to add the three ball to get to 40. Because you look at the guy, Harden, was the last guy I think Harden averaged, what, 36?

And that step back three, he put that in. Obviously, the free throw, Jordan went to the free throw line a lot. He didn't go as much as Harden. But I don't know how you get to 40 without that three ball. Well, Jordan's going to go to the free throw line a lot. He didn't go as much as Harden. But I don't know how you get to 40 without that three ball. Well, Jordan's going to go to the free throw line more than he did back then because we were able to beat him up and it was ignored to a certain extent. Okay. And he added the three ball in his career.

We watched him against the Blazers knock down three. That wasn't his specialty. Right. But it wasn't like he was a liability shooting the basketball. Michael Jordan would average whatever you wanted to average. Man, I mean you witnessed it. Yeah, I saw it. I did I did but I'm just like I'm like man when people say he averaged 40 45 of like 50. I'm like man. Do y'all know how many points that

is on a nightly basis? Do you know what you somebody say Tom Brady when he 44 gonna get five touchdowns and having nine through two games and he's going to be on pace with 50 plus you be like man. Ain't no way. No 44 year old guy doing that. Yeah. I you know what? Having played in the era when they hit the quarterback everywhere except the bottom of his feet. Yep. I was like, yeah, it's a different game. Now it is. I can see what you're saying. You like it's totally different. They

could beat you up. Right. The hits that we got back in the 90s, in the 2000s, early 2000s. Right. Yeah, they throwing somebody out of the league. They hit Tom Brady like that. So Brady's saying, I mean, he came out and said that the league is soft. Right.

Well, with all due respect, he's right. So is the NBA. Yeah. So he's taking advantage of those rules. Yes. Jordan would take advantage of these rules. I'm looking at this in game two of the NBA. So he's taking advantage of those rules. Jordan would take advantage of these rules. I'm looking at this in game two of the fight. How many yards would you average if they can't think about the rules today?

I'd definitely be, I would be, I was Travis Kelce before Travis Kelce, but I'd definitely give me 100 a game. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm going to give me 1,500 yards, 1,500 yards a season. Absolutely. Because we were running then, I was blocking with 1,500, 1,700, 2,000 yard rushes. So we were running the ball more than we were passing it. Absolutely.

Can I ask you a question? Another one? Yeah, yeah, I want to know what made you stick your tongue out. Oh, man, you remember? Yeah, I want to know what possessed you to do that man's signature move. Oh, man, just young and dumb. I had a moment, man. You had a moment? to know what possessed you to do that man's signature move. Oh, man, just young and dumb.

I had a moment, man. You had a moment? I had a moment. Did you realize who that was? Yes, but I thought we had every answer, because we were rolling. So I stripped them. Yeah.

I stripped them. I'm like, oh, it's on. New York City. I stripped them. Now they found me on a break, and I go in the air, and I act like the player's dead, but I stick my tongue out. Mistake.

Huge mistake. Huge mistake. Because like he talked about it in the documentary, he takes all of that and uses it as fuel. And he took advantage of that and used it as fuel and took over the game. I don't know what made me do it. I can remember my dad. I look over my dad. He's like, don't do that. It was too late. Yeah. I have you here. There's been a lot of speculation.

Well, the reason why he doesn't get a job, he did this. Or he hadn't gotten a job because he did that. And somebody reached out. Why isn't Mark Jackson, the guy that laid the foundation for the Golden State Warriors, why doesn't he get a call with these head coaching vacancies open up? Why isn't Mark Jackson? They hear you speak and you talk the game and you can relate to the players. Why isn't Mark Jackson currently employed as an NBA head coach? I don't

know. That's the that's the full answer. I don't know. What I will say is I look forward to the day when I'm coaching again Right what I will say is it will happen. I truly believe that with everything in me The opportunity hasn't presented itself I stand on what we were able to do in in Golden State Not me what we were able to do right ownership management coaches players training staff I'm proud of that a team that went 19 years and only made the playoffs one year and then all of a

sudden when 50-plus games get into the playoff advance to the second round and then when I'm gone become a dynasty something changed from that 19 year to today right and I played a part in it a small part but but a part in it and I become a dynasty. Something changed from that 19 year to today. Right. And I played a part in it, a small part, but a part in it. And I look forward to having the opportunity because there are teams in that position. Right. So if you want it, you can say, well, I can't coach a championship team. And I think you're wrong.

Right. But there's no evidence to show that. Right. But you can't tell me that I can't play a part and turn the team that historically made the playoffs one time in 19 years. And we've seen teams that in that position and worse, and some hovering around that situation. I'm comfortable and confident in what I was able to do in playing a small part in changing the culture. Have anybody reached out for an interview and says well mark we'd like

to talk to you uh mark come sit down and what is it if you could go back is there some things that you've learned from some of the maybe the mistakes that you made is there anything that you would do differently well no matter what you do in life you look back and think i would have done something differently so there are absolute things that I would do differently. But one thing I'll stand on, who I am as a man, who I am as a father, who I am as a coach, who I am as a brother, who I am as a mentor and a leader, you can't take that away from me. So the things that have been reported are absolutely not true.

And I will sit here any day of the week, make time for anybody that's willing to sit here, been reported are absolutely not true. Okay. And I will sit here any day of the week, make time for anybody that's willing to sit here that says so-and-so said it because it's always so-and-so. Right. Do me a favor and get so-and-so in front of me because I'll meet him and we can have a discussion. Right. Three-point contest.

Steph Curry, Reggie Miller, Larry library. I want to say one thing though Okay, I got a double back with a double back on it because the people that you play for yeah Ravens and the Broncos Broncos with with um, John Elway and the coach Mike Shanahan Yeah, and and and and and Dan Reeves and then in the ball play with the right Brian Billy, right? you Brian Billick Dan Reeves and then in Baltimore. Baltimore played with the Ravens. Right. And with Brian Billick. Right. You, Brian Billick, Dan Reeves, and all those, Shanahan and all those guys, wouldn't have to be the one to defend themselves. Right. Because you'd be like, hold on.

Hold on. You can say what you want. Absolutely. Yes. You can say what you want. Yes. Shannon Sharp, who speaks on everything. Right.

You owe it to Dan Reeves or Shanahan to be like, hold on. Right. Y'all 100% wrong. Right. It can't go on that way. So that's, if somebody says something about Steph Curry, Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, the entire roster, Andre Goddard, Jared Jack, you can name them all, Harrison Barnes.

I'm going to be like, hold on. That ain't true. You can say whatever you want about the flaws and all of that, but that there, that ain't true. And that's how it should be. And even not just my head coaches. Any coach that, and I have coaches now that's still in the league that were, they weren't head coaches, but they were position coaches

that were about, and a lot of times people are like, well, you say this, but you weren't like that. Well, go ask the coach. Right. See, I don't I can tell you, but I got people that don't know me because some, you know, sometimes the head coach, he has to be PC. Right. I say, but go ask them off camera when they can tell you the truth and ask them how I was as a player, was in meetings how was in practice how was on the bus I said I ain't got a lot about me I got people that about for me right the one person that knows whether I can coach I can't the one person that absolutely knows that is Steve Kerr right because

he took over the job right and when you take over a job you knew whether it was a good situation a bad situation you know the habits and to Steve Ker's credit, who is an all-time great coach that has done an incredible job with the Golden State Warriors, I got nothing but respect, appreciation, and admiration for Steve Kerr. He has shown me nothing but respect. And he has testified on behalf of the job that he stepped into. Well, that should be enough right there to get you, at least to get you an interview in the dorm.

Why are you looking me up and down like I'm doing a hire? I'm just saying. I mean, Greg Popovich, he vouched for somebody. They go get an interview. I'll tell you this, though. The one place I don't want to be is outside the will of God. So I'm perfectly fine with where I am, and I trust and believe that it'll all work out.

Okay. Well, if that's what you believe, I hope. Because I think you're too good of a man. The coaching aspect, I think you need to be a good man to be a good coach. You're too good of a man not to be coaching. Your resume should speak for itself. I've seen coaches with worse resumes get opportunity after opportunity and what you was able to do with Golden State to build that and all of a sudden they're like, nah, we good. He good. You know, he had a four year five year run and that's it. It'll work out. Well, I truly believe that. All right. Three point competition. Steph, Reggie, Larry and Clay. Who you got? Steph, Reggie, Larry, and Clay, who you got?

Well, I didn't shoot against Larry because he wasn't on my team. And by the time he got to coach me, he wasn't shooting at the time. I beat Reg quite frequently in shootouts. Clay Thompson, I could talk him out of his game, beat him a couple of times in shootouts. Steph Curry is documented on YouTube. If you don't believe me, check it out. Beat him in the shootout that we had. I believe if you put them in the room, any one of them come out.

They're that great a group of shooters. And if you put a certain group of guys, about five to ten of them, that have played in this game historically, any one of them could come out. All right. How about I'm going to do it like this here. Now, if you said they got to shoot in a variety of ways, all pick and roll, stop and pop, coming off turn downs, coming off pin downs, shooting a half court,

Steph Curry's that guy because he's the one guy that is a great shooter across the board in any one of those situations. Okay, how about I do it like this here. One shot for Mark Jackson's life. Who you want taking that shot? That's how we gonna do that. Shay, Shay.

That's my answer. I'm sticking to it. My final answer. I'm gonna get you out of here on this one. Give me your Mount Rushmore. Four players. That's all you get. From the start of the 75th anniversary, so we going back 75 years to now, and you could have all centers,

you could have all guards, you could have all threes, all twos, all fours. Give me four players. In no order. Four players. Michael Jordan. Mm-hmm. How might he keep making everybody leave? No, he's got to make the list. He's got to make the list.

He's got to make the list. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Okay. LeBron James. Okay. Get one more. This is tough because I want to put, man, I want to put, I'm not putting this guy on there, but I want to put him on there. I want it to be Bill Russell because of all that he stood for, continues to stand for, and is the ultimate champion.

But I got to put the guy that changed the game and put us in position to make the money we make today or play the role is Magic Johnson. So, I mean, Magic and Larry changed the game. Right. I got to pick one. It would be Magic because I'm a point guard. Right. Because you remember before they came along, the NBA Finals was tape delayed.

I don't know if people remember that. But you didn't watch it. You weren't watching it live. They changed the game. They absolutely changed the game. And, I mean, guys was, they was doing whatever they want. Wearing chains and jewelry. Yes. Smoking and drinking and getting guys was they were doing whatever they want wearing chains and jewelry. Yes smoking and drinking and getting out. They were doing everything.

Yes, the game changed to the credit of those two guys and the late great David Stern, the commissioner right who who was you know at the helm. but I tell you what the game is in great hands today. Commissioner Silver, the coaches, the players, the management, the new breed of owners that we have today. It's different than the old school guys and I was doing my way on the highway. They are taking care of the business of the NBA

and I'm proud to be part of it. You get one, you get one trait. Steph shooting, a Jordan's athleticism? That's an easy call for me. I would take Steph shooting. Because we haven't seen guys with Jordan's athleticism, but we've seen special athletes at the playground that never made it. If you can shoot like Steph Curry, you're

going to be all right. Kobe's mentality of LeBron's basketball IQ. That's a closer one. But I'm going to tell you I would take Kobe men's Kobe's mentality. The reason why is because I would be successful in life period whether it be basketball or somewhere else. Okay, I'm going to be good. Shaq dominance or Tim Duncan's fundamentals? Give me the dominance. Give me Shaq's dominance.

He's a tough – what are you doing? These are tough questions, man. I got – this is going to be good. Kyrie handles or Magic's passing? You're asking me? I got to say Magic's passing. You're asking me? I gotta say magic's passing. As great as Kyrie's handles are and is,

I was birthed on Magic Johnson's ability to see the floor and make everybody else better. Bruh. Have a great season. Man, you're a legend, man. Appreciate you. No, before you, one more.

NBA champions who's gonna be the NBA champion this year um who's in who's in the finals and who wins it

I'm gonna say the Lakers and the Nets just because it's the safe pick and um I will say the Nets because of those three dudes. Five, sweet, five, six, gentlemen, sweet, five games, six, seven games.

Seven. I'm hoping seven, but I think Lakers are going to get them. You see I'm not sitting here firm on my belief. Lakers are good enough to absolutely roll through everybody. They're that talented, and they did a great job of improving their roster and getting guys that you don't have to guess what I'm going to get when I insert them into the ballgame. Those guys have a body of work that tells you what they're going to deliver.

Mark, I appreciate you stopping by. Good luck this season. You're a legend, man. Keep on rolling, man. Thank you, man. Appreciate that. All my life, I appreciate you stopping by. Good luck this season. You're a legend, man. Keep on rolling, man. Thank you, man. Appreciate that. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, pay the price.

Want a slice, got the roll of dice. That's why all my life, I be grinding all my life. Look, all my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, pay the price. Want a slice, got the roll of dice. That's why all my life, I be grinding you next time. and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolfe. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends.

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