Club Shay Shay - Metta World Peace

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

On episode 31 of Club Shay Shay, Shannon welcomes in NBA Champion, former All-Star, 2004 DPOY, & All-NBA selection: Metta World Peace.Shannon and Metta chat about what Metta has been up to lately, including playing in the Big 3 tournament with Stephen Jackson as his head coach, and launching a new app that helps get basketball players exposure in meaningful games.The pair touch on the infamous Malice at the Palace brawl and how Metta turned his actions around on the court with the help of therapy and meditation. Metta discusses playing with Kobe, facing LeBron and going to the Bulls right after Jordan had won his 6 titles there.A New York City native, Metta tells stories about growing up with Lamar Odom and playing on the same AAU team together. He sizes up the current NBA landscape, Lakers roster, and what exactly Ben Simmons needs to do to be successful.#DoSomethinB4TwoSomethin & Follow Club Shay Shay:                                                                 https://www.instagram.com/clubshayshayhttps://twitter.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.facebook.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.youtube.com/c/clubshayshay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, pay the price. Want a slice, got the roll of dice. That's why all my life I be grinding all my life. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Che Che. I am your host, also the proprietor of Club Che Che, and the guy that's stopping by for a drink and conversation is none other than NBA champion, Metta World Peace. Metta, how you doing today, bro? Everything's great, man.

Thanks for stopping by. Well, I did shortchange you on a couple of things. NBA champ, defensive player of the year, all-star, all-NBA selection. So what have you been up to lately? Yeah, man, just like your kids is in college, man. So I've been really busy with that. You know, I got four kids in college at the same time. Oh, you have four kids in college.

Yeah. You didn't think about spacing it out a little bit? Like, okay, get one out of the house and get the other one out of the house. You got them all out at the same time. Well, my first daughter, she didn't go to school for four years. Okay. So then she went back. Right.

And then my youngest is about to go to college. Okay. So my two middle ones are in college. Right. So now they're all in college at the same time. Okay. You started an app called X vs. X. Can you tell people at home a little bit about that?

Yeah, absolutely, man. It's an app where people can get exposure. So if you're trying to find a basketball game, you know, it's playing a meaningful basketball game. Because when you go overseas or even the NBA, you can say, I played in the Jewel League, I played in the Rucker. Right. And they're going to say, well, that's not really nothing.

That's not real ball. Right. So we try to manufacture competitive games. Right. Where you're going to get better, get exposure, and try to become like a pipeline to NCAA, NBA, overseas, and have a great time. What if you're not at that level? What if you just want to get a good game, get a good sweat in,

and you're really not trying to get to that next level? Is that available also on this app? It's available because as a basketball player, when you go to the gym, you need somebody to play with. Right. So if you just want to get in shape and compete, this is the app to go on. Okay. What about you?

Have you been playing any basketball lately? I know you used to go to Equinox a lot, 24-hour fitness. Obviously, during the pandemic, none of that was available. So what have you been doing to keep your basketball game sharp? Yeah, I've been playing a little bit. With COVID, it was a little tougher, but I've been playing a little bit. I would say like twice a month I play. Yeah, but I'm trying to get back

the love. Are you going to do anything with the big three? Yeah, I'm going to play in the big three. So, yeah, I mean, training camp is about to start. You talk about you playing a couple times a month. Yeah, but you know, it's just like when they were at the fort, you know, loading, right? It's like, you know, you don't necessarily

have to train. Right. Because it's different because it's half court. You probably need to pick up the intensity if you're playing full court basketball. Yeah, for sure. And we got a lot of other, we got young dogs on our team. Steven Jackson's the head coach. Right.

So we got dogs on the team. So you said you used to go to, I know you used to go to Equinox a lot. Yeah. You play. But you're really trying to, you're really out there playing, trying to drop 34 of those from 50, 60 year olds? At Equinox, I go in at Equinox. I just don't like

playing against people that's much better than me or stronger. Right. Yeah. So, when you playing, so when you playing the guys that just coming in and say, man, you know, I had a great game today. I played against Metal World Peace. Yes. You really trying to punish those guys, huh? Not like physically but I'm definitely trying to slag on them You know you try to put 40 points on them. I'm for sure trying to put 40 For sure I love gonna eat when I see some a lot of it's very competitive. Yeah, and I jump sometimes

You grew up in New York Queensborough yeah, Queensbridge Queensbridge one of your best friends was Lamar Odom and I think Elton Brand. Yep. So you saw Elton, not Elton, excuse me, you saw Lamar Odom just fight exhibition, boxing match, against Aaron Carter. Right.

You down for something like that? If it's Aaron Carter, yeah. If it's Ben Wallace, no. No, no, no, no. Aaron Carter already got punted. So if we do a celebrity boxing match, or we do an exhibition boxing match, who do you like to be paired against?

All right, so nobody my height or bigger. It's got to be somebody at least five inches shorter and about 100 pounds lighter. You're trying to get an easy victory. I'm trying to get an easy one. I don't want to get punched in my face. So, I mean, did you, obviously we all fought growing up. Yeah.

But did you, like, professionally, did you go train when you was playing basketball? Did you train in the gym as far as boxing and hitting the mitts or anything like that? Well, my dad was a boxer. My dad from Philly, West Philly. Okay. So everybody fighting out there. Right. So he was a boxer, and I loved it, but he kept it away from me.

Right. He didn't want me boxing because he didn't want me getting hit. Right. So he always kept it away. He would go training. I'm like, Dad, where are you going? He only taking me to the basketball court. I was like, Dad, you know I love boxing.

Take me to the gym. But he would never take me to the gym. So when you were growing up, obviously you mentioned that your pops was a boxer, a fighter. Did you want to actually do professional or did you always know, you know what, basketball is my calling. Did you always want to play basketball or did you think about doing, you know, professionally fighting?

Yeah, I did want to fight professionally. And I knew it was going to take 10 years. I watched boxing so much and my dad. So I was watching boxing and then I was getting in trouble a little bit in the league. Right. Right. After the bro. Right. My dad set up a call with me and Angelo Dundee. Okay. Muhammad Ali. When Angelo Dundee was still here. Yeah. Or maybe maybe before. And then Angelo was going to start training me. Right. And then we had a plan where I was gonna turn pro at about 35. So I was gonna just train for like 10 years. Right. Get into it, ease into it, and then I retire, go pro. And but then when the brawl happened, I was gonna announce at that time that I'm gonna turn pro after my career's over.

Right. But when the brawl happened, I was like, I didn't think it was the right time to be announcing. Right, right, right, right. I wanna fight. Right. So I just kinda just said, it's over, I didn't think it was the right time to be announcing I want to fight. So I just kind of just said, it's over. I'm not even thinking about fighting.

What type of fighter you thought you would... So you know you had to fight heavyweight, right? For sure, for sure, for sure. I don't know, Melo. I mean, you know, normally guys that fight, they start at a very young age. Not Deontay Wilder. I mean, but he's not technically sound and we knock everybody out. So, so, so, so, so, so that's what you expected. You have knockout power. I don't

think I had knockout power. I think I would have good left jab. I think my jab would have been solid. And I think my left hand so quick where I don't I would have got in different spots. Right? And my defense was amazing. So my lateral movement was really right. So I don't I would have got in different spots right and my defense was amazing so my lateral movement was really right so I don't know how somebody would have timed me and stay out of my left hand so what would you what you gonna pair with it I mean you try to give me mashed potatoes but what you go whatever you go ahead with the mashed potato well okay you go throw the overhead right well I think you will double jab well interests me most is the jab to the body,

jab to the head, and the uppercut. That's what interests me most about boxing. You know what I mean? Like, sneaking the uppercut. You know, a lot of guys guard here. And Canelo can break through it sometimes. But a lot of boxers can break through here with uppercut. You know what I mean?

But you see some boxers accomplish it. But you do not understand now. To throw the uppercut, you got to be in tight. You got to be, yeah, you got to be up in there. You got to be up in there. So they dig into the body, so you got to time it up just right. Hey, you got to figure it out. Maybe wait until the fourth, until the fifth round maybe.

So do you like that aspect of it? Because boxing, what people don't understand is that you're in a fight. Yeah. And you have to think. You're thinking your way through it. Okay, he's doing this, he's doing this. I got a time that's just right. How do I walk someone into a punch? How do I, when he throws a punch, I counter his punch? How do I catch him at

the right moment? Because in basketball, you know, look, basketball is one thing. Obviously you're thinking. Right, right, right. But there's a difference between thinking when someone is hitting you in your face and thinking when you're running up and down the court. I agree. I agree. That's very true.

I think the way I would have benefited from was my reaction time was, like, incredible. Right. I would steal the ball, take the ball, ball be in front of someone. Right. You know, by the time they turn around, I got it. Right. You know what I'm saying? I think, like, a lot of those instincts, I think it would have translated.

Right. If I would have trained. Right. I think it would have translated. Because I would have for sure took risks. For sure. Well, you got to be an exciting fighter. You got to take risks.

You got to take risks. You got to take risks. You got to take risks. Those are the guys that make the big money that people want to see. Yeah, yeah. Because in order to knock someone out, you got to take risks. Yeah. I mean, I wanted to give my dad two fights.

Like, that's one reason I wanted to train. Right. Because the two fights I wanted to give him, I didn't want it to be someone out, you got to take risk. Yeah. I mean, I wanted to give my dad two fights. Like, that's one reason I wanted to train. Right. Because the two fights I wanted to give him, I didn't want it to be like an exhibition. I wanted it to be like eight rounds. Right. And so, I mean. You started out fighting the gate because normally they start you off at like four rounds. So, you was going to start out the gate at eight?

Well, if I train hard and I fight against someone who's like, not like Deontay Wilder. Right. You know, fight against somebody. You wanted a tomato can. Yeah. You know? Same level. Right, right.

And just to give my dad two fights. Right. But then, like, when I got older, and I was actually still going to do it, but I got a concussion in 2010. Right. Where we, after the Cavs game, Lakers against the Cavs, I got a concussion, and I actually got knocked out.

Right. I hit my head. And I said, I'm not even thinking about boxing because it's just not worth it. Right. Because I don't know what else would happen if I get hit.

Right. So I just said, you know what, my boxing's over. So you're playing basketball. Okay, you say you got in trouble. What was causing you to get in trouble?

Oh, man, like, you know, a lot of, well, it came from losing. That was the main thing. You were sort of a loser, trouble? Oh, man. Like, you know, a lot of, well, it came from losing. That was the main thing. You were a sore loser, huh? Oh, my goodness. Were you a sore loser? I was a sore loser.

I was. I was. I was. And then when you lose, so now you come to practice, you do something that you shouldn't be doing. Right. Detrimental. And then you're not man enough to apologize.

Right. You know, when you apologize, it smooths everything out. Right. When you don't apologize, that's going to stick with you. Right. That's going to be guilt, and you've got to deal with that. And then pile on, pile on, pile on. So then you become an introvert.

Right. Because you've done so much bad stuff. Right. You think everybody hates you. Right. And some people don't even really care. Right. They just want you to apologize.

Right. I think that's kind of where it kind of stemmed from. I remember one game. We was in the New York Knicks. We played against the Knicks. I looked at the paces. We lost. I take the TV monitor, throw it on the floor, take the guy's camera, throw the camera. Yeah.

I think they showed that clip. They showed that clip. You walk into the locker room. It's just all because of loss. Right. I couldn't really deal with it. So when you did that, because the thing was, like, when I was smaller and I hated losing, me and my brother was playing.

It was basically mainly a one-on-one. Is that my grandmother would always make me go back out and play. She would make me go get the ball because I would take the ball and throw it in the woods, or I'd kick the ball in the hall of fame, and she'd make me go get it. So when you were going through this as a child, what did your parents say? As a child, see, my parents wasn't really at my games all the time. Right.

My dad started going to my games about 13 years old. Okay. Even though he was the one who trained me. Right. So when I was getting in trouble, I remember one time I was eight years, and I was 10 years old, playing at St. Joseph in Queens. Okay. The referee called a bad call. I pick up a chair, throw the chair at the referee. Right.

And the referee was a cop, too, right? Insane. And then I remember one time at the Boston shootout, I thought I was the best player at Boston shootout. We won a championship. They give the MVP to somebody else. I take all the awards all off the table and just throw all the, break all the awards. Oh, hold on, tell me, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

tell me, you didn't break your award. You broke up everybody else's award because you thought you should have won the award. The MVP. I broke everybody, I took mine, I broke everything. The Boston shootout. So when you're doing this, what does your coach say? Well, you know what?

At that time I was playing, I was winning. Right. You know, like high school, 27-0 in New York City. Like, that's a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar record. Right. Sort of, right? Like, I was always winning. So when you're winning, Right. You know, like high school, 27-0 in New York City. Right. That's a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar record. Right. Sort of, right? Like, I was always winning. So when you're winning, the coaches are like, he kind of crazy.

Yeah, we make this up. Right. It was one coach that I had, Kenny Pretlow. And he really screamed at me when I got in trouble. I was about 13. And he let me have it. I kind of remember that. Right.

And in high school, I got suspended 13 games. My coach, Bill Abrams, suspended me the first 13 games freshman year. 13 games. So before the season or you did something during the season? Before the season. How effed up did you make a situation that you get suspended before the season? I got suspended every single year in school education. Well, yeah, every single year.

I was fighting in a Catholic school. I went to a Catholic school. I got lucky. How you fight in a Catholic school? I know, I just got upset. Um, and then, you know, had a little fight. And they said, this is the last time that you're gonna ever fight in this school, LaSalle Academy.

And they sat me 13 games. Right. Taught me a big lesson. Until I got to the NBA. You mentioned, like, with your style, you were a physical style player. And back then when you came into the NBA, they allowed that style of play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you mentioned about fighting.

Did you ever think about MMA? No. No way. That's one sport I don't want to touch. Really? No, I just, I mean, even, well, if I train for it, like, maybe. Right. A big maybe.

Right. That's a brutal sport. It's really tough. I think boxing works on the brain. Yeah. But MMA is like you can get kneed in the face. You got to worry about so many things. You got to worry about getting choked.

Legs. Leg strikes. You got to get taken down many things. You got to worry about getting choked, leg strikes. You got to get taken down, armbar choked out. If you get knocked out, you got to hope the referee took the guy off you. You can't really control it. So did you think about, obviously, there are players that come out of New York as far as football. Did you ever think about playing football when you were a kid?

Yes. I wanted to try to play pro because I was in such good shape when I was in my prime. Right. And I would love football. I started watching football in 2005. I never watched football. Melody, you do know it takes more than being in shape to play professional sports.

Yeah, but the thing is this. Football is such an amazing sport. Yeah. When you're watching it, you want to be there. How are you going to, you know what I'm saying? So what position were you going to play? I mean, well... You going to be a defensive end? You going to, you know what I'm saying? So what position were you going to play? I mean, well. You going to be a defensive end?

You going to be a tight end? Can you catch? Okay, I played football on the beach. I caught the ball a couple times, so I don't know. And I was playing quarterback, so I don't know. I don't know. I definitely don't want to get hit. That's one thing I don't want.

Well, football's out for you. I know. So maybe defense? Well, yeah, I mean, you want. Well, football's out for you. I know. So maybe defense? Well, yeah, you're gonna be, I'll be, yeah, I mean, you want to kick, you want to punt. I mean, that's the only way you're probably not gonna get hit that often. I think maybe like, maybe playing like... What about linebacker? Can you tackle?

I don't want to do linebacker, but maybe like the, um... You're too big to be a safety. I'm gonna say the wrong position. Um, like a shortstop in baseball. What's that position in football when you're just like, you're stealing the passes? Oh, you want to be a safety? Yeah. You too big,

you'd be too big for that. You think so? Yeah, I know so. When you played, how much did you weigh when you played? 260. How the hell

you going to be a safety at 260? You got to be a D lineman. Inside linebacker. I could have probably got the 280 in football. You're going to be a D lineman. You definitely ain't playing safety at 280. That's going to be right on the line? Yeah, yeah. I don have probably got the 280 in football. You're going to be a D lineman. You definitely ain't playing safety 280.

That's going to be right on the line? Yeah, yeah. I don't want to be on the line. I'm not trying to be on the line. I'm going to die. Hold on. As physical as you were, you didn't want to be physical. No, I don't want to be on the line.

I don't want to be on the line, man. So you like football. Yeah, absolutely. Who's your favorite team? Well, the Jets is my favorite team. And I have a Tim Tebow jersey. And I can't believe that they didn't play him. Like, the guy came to the Jets.

Give him two games. Like, I bought the jersey. I'm a Tebow crazy. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I was one of those guys. Yeah, give him two games. Right.

They was like, not even two games. Like, let him play. We sucked anyway. So I was still kind of salty about that. But the Jets is my favorite team. Jets is my favorite team. What about your favorite? Who's your favorite player now?

Oh, right now? Well, I mean, Brady's still like killing it. Yeah. You know, that's our era. Right. He's still there. Yeah. You know know I'm saying so is I would say Brady. There's a story circulating about a pickup game in which you elbow Jordan the ribs. What happened? Really easy. What happened? Well, alright, so when it

happened, I didn't I didn't leak that story. A gentleman by the name of Sam Smith, the Chicago Tribune. He wrote the Jordan Rules. He wrote the Jordan Rules? If I'm not mistaken, he did write the Jordan Rules. So Sam leaked the story, and then when the story leaked, the story was Ronald Tess punched Jordan in the ribs. When I read that early in my career in Chicago, I was sick.

I'm like, who would write that? So I couldn't really leave the house. But anyway, what happened was we was in a game and MJ would ask me to come back because I was 19 years old but really competitive. A lot of pros was in there. He would guard me, guard me.

So I was still really strong and at that time, MJ was killing. And he broke his ribs. When I broke his ribs, he sat out three months, came back averaging 25. And I was telling people, if it wasn't for those three months off, he would average 35. He was killing them. Right.

And you're talking about all-stars in the gym. Because that was the year after he retired, correct? That was one year after he retired. Right. And he was cooking. So when I was guarding MJ, I was just like, I can't let him get the ball. And even in my career, I deny everybody. Right.

You know what I'm saying? And so MJ, he's so strong, he holds you. Right. So I'm like, I can't let him get the ball, so I'm like, get your arm out the fucking way. And my elbow hit him in the ribs. Right. And he went like this, but I didn't know I hit him right in the ribs. You caught him flush. Yeah, I caught Right. And then he went like this, but I didn't know I, like, hit him right in the ribs. You caught him flush.

Yeah, you know, I caught him, and then he came back down. He was like this. Ah! And he got the ball, free throw line, game over, MJ, right? Right.

And went off like this, and I'm like, damn, MJ is nice. And then the next day, I found out he broke his ribs. Right. And I was like, oh, that's why he was holding his ribs. Well, who told the story? Well, somebody was in a gym.

Right. Said that, you know, Matt Earl Pease apparently punched MJ, which was not the story. That's not how it happened. No, no way. I'm not going to punch my favorite player. So you go to Chicago. Obviously, Michael Jordan is God in Chicago. For sure.

And you don't want to be the guy that, man, I did something to MJ. For sure. What was it like going to Chicago playing after MJ had just won six championships in eight years? Well, it was incredible, man, because that was my favorite team. MJ, I would watch his defense when I was a kid. Right, okay. Yeah, his offense was great, but his defense was incredible. He's one of the best defenders ever. Right.

On the wing. Yes. And that made me want to be like MJ on defense. And I will always remember that. It wasn't really his offense. Right. Then I go get drafted to Chicago, my favorite team. This is like Trey Young going to Cleveland with LeBron.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. Or Booker with Kobe. Right. So then I go to Chicago. I was like, I'm competitive. So what I'm saying is I. Or Booker with Kobe. Right. So then I go to Chicago. I was like, I'm competitive. So what I'm saying is I'm going to win a title here somehow.

And that's what I wanted to do. And I remember Jerry Krause, RIP Jerry Krause, he was saying, Ron, we're going to get number seven, and we're going to wipe out the other six. Now, I don't want to wipe out the other six. Right. I just want to get number seven. You know what I'm saying? So, with Jaron Krause,

because MJ and all the guys had shaded him, he didn't feel he'd get the credit that he deserved. Right, right, right. He felt one title with someone other than Jordan Yeah, for sure. would mean more

than those six. Yeah, for sure. And you're like, I don't want to be a part of that. I just want to add, I ain't trying to wipe away nothing. Well, yeah, he had me thinking we're going to get number seven. And me, I'm like, I'm a team player.

So I'm like, really? So what? You know, the other six? Okay, this is what we're doing? This is what we're going to try to do, huh? Let's try to get number seven. And he really wanted me to stay there. Right.

He saw a lot in me. Right. And I used to be so discouraged. I was only averaging 11 to 12. Right. And, you know, later in my career, I was at 20. Right. And he said, yo, you're going to be straight. I was so frustrated, missing shots. Right. Not winning and losing 60 games. Right. Breaking stuff in the locker room. And he'd be like, you got to relax. He said, you're going to be great. Trust me. Trust me. He told me all the time. Right. And I didn't believe it at that time.

So what was it like playing for Tim Floyd? Tim was, I think he was a college coach. Right. You know what I'm saying? Well, he did teach me amazing tips on defense. Right. I always give him credit. Right.

He was one of the reasons I was locking people up in the NBA. Right. But then when it came to, and I don't think he had a lot of power also. Right. That's the other thing. Right. He couldn't really do what he wanted to do. And people don't talk about that. Play this guy, play that guy.

For sure. You're in Chicago. You make a 13-hour drive back to New York. Why? I just needed to be back in Queensbridge. You know what I'm saying? Like, I would go back. We don't have a practice one day. I just drive. I'd be in a, I'd go to the back in Queensbridge. You know what I'm saying? Like, I would go back. We don't have a practice one day.

I just drive. I'd be in a, I'd go to the hood for like 10 hours and then drive back. And this was crazy because I was driving with no sleep. I was driving with no sleep, but. You know you could have gotten there a lot quicker if you'd have, you know, flown. I know, I know, I know. Man, I would always drive. I was driving.

Because, you know, when you're 19, I never had a car. Right. So now you're going back to the hood with your car. Oh, yeah. So you wanted people to see your will. Not necessarily, but it's like I can just drive. Right. I don't have to go to the flight. I can say, hey, you want to go?

Let's go. We out. New York City. Right. You know, and I would just go back home, go back to the neighborhood. Right. And just like, you know, I need some type of reality. Right.

To what's happening because, like, I wasn't ready for it. Right. When you went back to the hood, because, you know, everybody, the thing is what I tell people all the time, even though everybody, hey, hey, hey, everybody's not happy. Even though they had the same opportunity, some of them had the very same opportunity you had to exit that, they chose to stay there, and then they hold that against you

that you chose to got out. Oh, man, that against you, that you chose to got out. Oh, man, Ron, you acting brand new. You acting different. Ain't nobody coming to me in my neighborhood. There's not one soul that's going to come to me. Everybody happy. You think so? For sure.

Because I'm a different breed. Right. So in my neighborhood, in Queensbridge, if anything you don't like, you get out the way. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm going to be hit. Right.

You know what I'm saying? I'm coming back home, and people just respect it. You bypass everything you think about me because I'm here in the flesh every single time. That's it. And I show love, too. Right. You know what I'm saying?

You got a lot of boys? You still got guys that you grew up with, you still cool with, you still talk to? For sure, yeah, for sure, for sure. Like, you know, and I don't speak like, I don't want to be ignorant, but, you know, a lot of my friends are locked up and I keep in contact. I try to inspire them. You know, I try to let them know.

I'm like, wow, I experienced something different. Right. You guys got to hear these stories. Right. Like, I got, I'm doing business with these type of guys. I'm like, you guys can do it. Like, that type of stuff. Right. When I look at guys that's in my neighborhood that don't really have a big shot to leave. Right. I look at them like, I could have been in that

situation. Correct. You know what I'm saying? Easily, because if I go to jail for something, then... It starts a series of events. Yeah, so situation correct yeah i'm saying right easily because if i go to jail for something then it starts a series of events yeah so i i don't look at i don't feel different right i feel like i want to tell you these stories and i think you guys can make it if you just focus you know or and if you just don't give up right you know and things like that so you know i got a lot of love in the neighborhood mainly because of those reasons what made made Jordan so special on the defensive end? Because I hear a lot of people say, you look at him, and

he was a lot stronger than what he appeared to be. For sure. Jordan is strong. That's the difference between Jordan and Kobe, R.P. Kobe. Jordan, he's almost as strong as myself and LeBron.

Not quite. Right. But right there. Right. You know what I'm saying? And I'm sure like the guys that played against him would say the same thing. Right. Yeah. If you were guarding Mike in his prime, how would you defend him?

For one, honestly, I think, let's just compare it to the greats I played against. Okay. In their prime. Okay. You put Kobe. So Kobe. T-Mac. Yeah. Le their prime. Okay. Kobe. So, Kobe. T-Mac. Yeah.

LeBron. Yeah. You played KD. KD. KD was, all right, so when I caught KD in 2010, he was just becoming really good. Right. And you talk about Coach Scott was running all these plays, and I wasn't getting hit with no screens.

Right. You know what I'm saying? I'm weaving it out. Right. And all the plays for KD was run and get open. Right. You had, I think you had Ibaka. Right. You know what I'm saying? I'm weaving it out. Right. And all the plays for KD was run and get open. Right. You had, I think you had

Ibaka. Right. But I'm getting around all that. Right. And I don't think he was ready for that. Right.

So his percentage was way down. Right. And I was happy I had a chance to get rid of him early because there was no way I was going to beat him.

You know what I mean? So five years later. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, but when LeBron, LeBron first game against me, he had 25. Right. And that's when I was reigning defensive player of the year. Right. So I what I'm saying? But with LeBron, LeBron first game against me, he had 25. Right.

And that's when I was reigning defensive player of the year. Right. So I was like, wow, this is crazy. You know what I mean? But I did have some good games against LeBron. Right. So if I can compare it to LeBron or Kobe, Kobe might have gave me 40 once. You know, nobody ever scored 50 on me.

I don't even think anybody ever scored 44. Only like maybe four times somebody got 40. Right. LeBron might have had 40. So if I compare that, I think Jordan was a little bit better maybe than times somebody got 40. LeBron might have had 40. So if I compare that, I think Jordan was a little bit better maybe than those guys. Right. I think Jordan would have gave me 50 a couple times. Really?

The reason I say that, because even in my prime, he had 40 against us. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. When he was old. Right. He was old. Right.

I was an amazing defender. Right. When he was old. Right. He was old. Right. I was an amazing defender. Right. And Jordan had 40. Right. So I'm like, what the hell is going on? Right. So you hear a lot of people say, well, Mike would average 40. Mike would average 50.

In today's game, with the rules the way they are, you played in both eras. How many points do you think Jordan would literally average per game? Today? Today. Phew. More than James Harden. James Harden had a CZ average 36. More than that. For sure. Really? For sure. And I was at the Jordan

era. Yeah. I was in the LeBron Kobe. Yeah. Duncan. And I was at the tail end. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I played with these guys. Right. I've seen all the three-point balls go up. They can't. Jordan wouldn't.

Jordan, no way. Jordan would average 50. You believe Jordan would average 50? If he wanted to. Right. Like, James Harden wants to average 50. He just can't. Right.

He got 38. Right. Amazing. Right. If Jordan wants to average 50, if he was playing his era, I think he averages 50. And this is no disrespect to any of the guys. Current players.

That's killing, like KD, you know. Yeah, all those guys. Yeah. The guys, Steph and LeBron and all those guys. No disrespect to those guys, yeah. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news,

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Why do you feel that? Because you feel he will develop the three-point shot? Because it's hard to get to that 50 without having that three ball. You look at the guys that, look at James Harden. James Harden was probably shooting 10 threes a game. You look at Steph. Steph was probably averaging 10, 12 threes a game. He's making five. So in order to get to that 50 spot, it's hard for me to imagine someone can average 50 on just twos. Well, when you practice, you know, it makes perfect. Stephen Curry came up shooting threes. He changed the game, for sure. Yes, yes, yes. For sure changed the game. But then you get James

Harden. Right. James Harden didn't come into the league shooting like this. Right. Then he started working on that step back. Jordan had a one dribble, full speed, one dribble, right pull up. Yeah. What you see Kobe develop, Devin Booker now has that.

Kevin Durant at seven foot has that. Kawhi has that in their arsenal. So you believe Jordan could average 50? Jordan, if James Harden, who's an amazing player, if he could average 38? Right. What about Kobe? How many with Kobe?

Rest RIP Kobe. Yeah, RIP Kobe, absolutely. I think in this era, in his prime, the most he averaged about 30 something yeah i think we had 35 35 yeah um in this era game extra five getting 40. i mean at his peak yeah i think you could say 40. because i mean i don't think james is better than kobe okay am i right or no Some people argue that. Yeah, some people argue that because of his ability to draw fouls. Is that James goes, not this year, but when he was in Houston, he was leading the league every year in free throw attempts. 11-12 a ball game.

But James is amazing getting to the basket. Yes. And amazing at the three-point line. Right. Kobe was incredible all in there. Yeah. You know what I mean? Kobe don't make as many threes as James Harden.

Right. So I'm saying with that being said, but Kobe can shoot threes. Right. So in this era, you've got to, in their prime, you've got to say Kobe would average 40-something. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right.

41, 42. Right. The hand check, because a lot of guys, I hear the older guys say that's the difference in today's game and the way we play. Yeah. Because they say Jordan can literally steer you where he wanted you to go with the hand check. Well, now that's not allowed anymore because everybody wants to see scoring.

Right. So, do you believe that some of the old guys, like you yourself, how do you stop a guy like Steph Curry? How do you stop a guy like Kevin Durant in today's game when you can't hand check? Well, it's it's all subjective because the referees don't call all the time. Right. By the way, so, the last game, Kevin Durant got fouled on that air ball. Okay. They was all on him. Right. And if we can't touch. Right. Why was, why did the, why was the

foul not called? Kevin was so tired. He just left the floor. He was like, I'm going to sleep. Right. I keep playing in the playoffs. Right. But I think He was like, I'm going to sleep. I keep playing in the playoffs. But I think for me personally, I would have been amazed at this error because I came at the error when they took that out. Right. And they had this, you can do this. Okay, the elbow.

You can ride them with that. And then the next year, they took it out and said they got to be here. Right. They got to be attached. Right. And then the next year, they took it out. Right.

You know what I mean? And I was thriving in that error. So I would have been fine in this era, for sure. Do you like today's game, or do you like the era in which you played? Oh, man. Oh, man. I like grinding. I grew up watching the Pistons.

Oh, yeah. Okay. And the Knicks. Yes. So how some new player grew up watching Curry, like Trey Young, I grew up watching the grind. Right. The throwing.

The bad boy pistol. The Miami Heat. So that's how our mindset. Our mindset is like, okay, we're going to go to the league, and oh, if Bill and Bear is still in the league, when I get there, I got to watch out. Right.

I remember I went to the hole one time playing against the Heat, and Alonzo Mourner said, I was 19, and Alonzo Mourner said, I was 19, Alonzo Mourner said, you come in here again, I'm knocking your head off. That's what Alonzo Mourner told me. I went in there again. I wanted that.

Right. But that's the type of, so when you hear that from Alonzo, it's like, okay, next game we got Karl Malone. Right. Karl Malone arms like bigger than yours. You know what I'm saying? I was guarding Stockton one time, and Karl said, get off my point guard. And I'm like bigger than you. I was guarding Stockton one time and Carl said, get off my point guard.

And I'm like, God damn. You know what I'm saying? This is every night. So I think I love my era. We had one game to go to the finals. The score was 71-67. Detroit versus Indiana. That was the score.

You know what I'm saying? I missed that era where it was just grind, grind, grind. But when I look at today's game, I think the guys today, I'm not saying they're better, I'm saying they're more skilled. The way they can shoot the ball.

I don't think we've ever seen anything like this. We haven't because you know, you evolve and adapt. Right. Humans adapt. Right. I heard we want caveman. Now we walk in. Right. And I think the mind is so powerful. Right. As we can see the mind is so powerful. It's the same person. Right. Same size room, same height. But now we got this guy Stephen Curry 11 threes. Right. And this is incredible to me. From 35. From 35. Now

Trey Young is just doing it. Yeah. And Damian Lewis is doing that. And this is incredible to me. From 35. From 35. Now Trey Young is just doing it. And Damian Lewis is doing that. And now all these guys are doing it. Because you know back then, the only time you shot a logo three, the shot clock was running out or it was in the quarter to the end of the half. But you ain't pulling that shot with 12 seconds left on the shot clock. If you shot a logo

three and you wasn't Reggie Miller, the coach is going to chew you out. If I would have came down, and I was a man on my team, a lot of my team. If I came down and shot five feet from behind the three, Rick Adleman, Phil Jackson, Rick Carlyle, Van Thomas, what are you

doing? Alien. And now it's like these guys are just coming down and just... It's expected for them to shoot like that. Yeah, it's expected, yeah. Lamar Odom and Elton Brand was on your AAU team. How many games did you guys lose? One. One game.

Who beat you? Baron Davis. Hold on. Y'all let BD beat y'all. Y'all got three all-stars. Man, we lost the Baron Davis team. I was sick. But we beat them in the championship by 20.

Came back, but he wasn't there. But that team, they beat us. And then we came back in the championship and beat them by 20. Well, who was on BD's team that beat y'all? The Collin twins. He had the Collin twins. He had a gentleman by the name of Travis that went to UCLA. I forget his name.

Trav went to UCLA. OK. Tayshaun Prince, a young Tayshaun Prince. Okay. Was on that team, I think, yeah. Only team to beat us. A lot of your career, especially at the end, and even now, you speak of mental health.

And just shed a little light. What was it, the situation that happened, the malice in the palace, was that what really forced you to say, like, something ain't right, something's going on. I shouldn't be behaving like this. It was actually before that. Okay.

The malice in the palace was a... That was a culmination. But that was like, that was a cakewalk. Right. Because, like, for me personally, what I was going through, because the malice in the palace was more of someone who hit me. Right. Because like, from me personally, what I was going through, because the malice in the palace was more of someone who hit me.

Right. Right? So that wasn't like, nobody was hitting me before. Right. I was just, I was just dealing with things internally. Dealing with things internally. You know what I'm saying? Right.

The malice, like I had a reason to go into the stands. Right. And me and John Green, it's cool now, the guy who hit me. Right. With the cup. Right. You know, but when I laid on that table,

I was doing therapy sessions like every day. Right. So anytime I but when I laid on that table, I was doing therapy sessions, like, every day. Right. So anytime I was getting an issue, like, when Ben, when I fouled Ben and he pushed me, the first thing I did, they don't show this, first thing I did was like this. Apologizing. Right.

My bad, Ben. But Ben was so mad, he just pushed me. I didn't get a chance to be like, my bad. You know what I mean? Right. You know what I mean? Right. So I was like this, and it's clear as day in the camera.

And then when he pushed me, normally I would go back. I mean, if I'm not afraid of Alonzo Mourning, I'm not afraid of Ben Wild. And I'm heavier than Ben. Ben 240. I'm 260. Right. You know what I'm saying?

So but then I went to the table because I was trying to practice, relax. You got to think about this. The year before that, we was in the conference finals. Right. Conference finals to go to the table because I was trying to practice, relax. You got to think about this. The year before that, we was in the conference finals. Right. Conference finals to go to the championship. Best team in the league, 61 wins. I elbow Richard Hamilton in the face.

Game is tied, 67-67. Right? Richard, I elbow him, they call it flagrant. Rip hit two free throws, 69-67. They score 71-67 in the finals. And I'm like, yo, this can't be happening anymore. Right. You see what I'm saying?

Right. I want to win a title. Right. So I'm really, so I wasn't prepared for somebody to throw. But everything else I was prepared for. Right. Like, Ben hit me, I got here, cool, I'm going to chill. I'm going to go ahead and chill until it's over.

But the crazy thing was, it was like five minutes. Like, God damn. Right. So I don't want to count that, but everything else before that, I for sure knew I needed to fix myself. And I was. Was this something that happened in childhood that you needed to address that you didn't address, and it was just gradually building

and building and building? And then when you laid on the table and somebody threw something, that was the crescendo. For that incident, it was. Right. For that incident, it was. But before that, there were a lot of things that happened in childhood.

Right. You know, from parents going wild in the household. Right. Both parents, I love my parents, they were going wild. Did you ever go to your parents and talk to them about some of the things you were dealing with

and some of the things that were impacting you? That was a part of the roadmap for my therapy session. Okay. So those sessions happened two years later. Okay. We was taking it slow. Right. But I did therapy sessions with my parents. I might've done some with my siblings. Right. Are you the oldest? I'm the middle. You're the middle. Ten of us. Right. Yeah. Ten? Ten, and I got 44 nieces and nephews, and maybe eight or ten great nieces and nephews. Wow. It's a big... You got a big family. Big, big family.

So you're going through your therapy sessions, you're going through everything, and you're like, okay, I'm in a good place right now. Because you say you was doing this every day, so you felt you were in a good place until that ice, until that water landed on you. I didn't feel I was in a good place right now because you say you was doing this every day So you felt you were in a good place until that ice until that water landed on a thousand good place I felt was getting you was getting there So just imagine you practicing football and right after every practice you go to a room and do therapy, right? Right. So Donnie Walsh provided that for me, right, you know, so I was working on it right with Donnie Walsh

NBA was helping me out a little bit, you know, the Bulls helped me out early a little bit. Everybody was really chipping in. NBA was like, nobody noticed because it was like quiet. Right. But the NBA was very aware that players are going to need services for sure. Right. Yeah. So, you even thanked your therapist after you won the championship.

Yeah. For sure. So, after you won the championship. Yeah, for sure. So, Kobe passed you the ball. It's game seven. I think you're up like one or two points. We're up three. We're up three. Kobe passed you the ball.

Okay, Kobe's like, okay, give it back. I gave it to you. I lost my dribble. Now give it back. What's going through your mind? Let's talk about Kobe. Kobe and me and Kobe are very similar. He's way greater, but when you talk about stubborn and. Right. Alright, so one time, I mean, we was playing against the OKC,

in OKC. Uh-huh. And it was a last second shot in the playoffs to go home. Right. And Steve Blake set a screen on Kobe. Steve went to the corner. Kobe had somebody else to give to Steve. It was Ambos. Hit the shot on Kobe. Steve went to the corner. Kobe had somebody else to give it to Steve. It was Ambos. Hit the shot, Steve. Steve tried to airball. Kobe about choked me.

I said, hey, he's wide open. What do you want me to do? You know what I'm saying? And he just kept walking. Right. If it was anybody else, he probably would have been, RV my brother Kobe. But he know I put a lot of work in.

Right. Kobe in the gym early. I'm in the gym late. Right. And that moment, just before that, I was averaging 25. I was killing him the year before that. Right. You know what I'm saying? So he trusted me.

You know what I'm saying? Right. He trusted me. And in my mind, I want to win. I'm not thinking about anything else. In your mind, you saying, man, Kobe passed me the ball to shoot this thing. That's how you were thinking. No, in my mind, I wanted to go up six.

Okay. Because we was up three. Right. And I'm like, if I can hit this three, you know, we go up six. This is incredible. Right. If I miss, they still got to hit a three. Right.

So, in my mind, I used to get this shit on with one minute left. Right. So, I'm like, let's shoot it, man. Like, that's it. If it would have shot an air ball, I wouldn't have cared. You know? But you said Kobe passed you the ball. Yeah, Kobe passed it. I mean, because you know what? That year, I was averaging eight kid. But you said Kobe passed you the ball. Yeah, Kobe passed me.

I mean, because you know what? That year, I was averaging eight points. Right. And then everybody in the media, everybody was like, man, Metta World Peace, his career is almost over at 29 years old. How is my career almost over at 29 years old? Right. You know what I'm saying?

I'm just in my prime. Right. But I was playing with an amazing player right at 29 in my prime right and um i actually tried to get traded i was like trying to get traded early right because i was like there's no way i'm going to do anything else but um but it was a great experience right it was a great experience but you and before you and kobe became closer you guys became teammates yeah you guys had a lot of battle because there's video of you and him going back and forth. You were in Houston.

And he's obviously with the Lakers, and you guys are talking, and Kobe asked you, said, oh, you a comedian now? Oh, you gonna stop me? You gonna shut me down? Yeah. What were those battles like, dealing with him? Because you basically, you got to the league in 99, Kobe got it in 96,

but you guys, up until you guys became teammates, and you probably had some battles in the gym where you guys are going against each other. So what were those battles like? Very competitive. Kobe's way more skilled. Right. You know, and I feel like I'm the best every time I walk on the floor.

And I know the numbers don't say that, but in my mind, I'm like, there's nobody better than me tonight. Right. You know, and I had big playoff series where I played against Hall of Famers where I showed out. Right. And I know the numbers don't say that, but in my mind, I'm like, there's nobody better than me to this. And I had big playoff series where I played against Hall of Famers where I showed out. So going against Kobe, he is the best. So in my mind, I'm like, I have to win. I have to do something to win the game.

But I wasn't mentally strong enough fully to just play the game and accept losing. Right. You know, so it was, but as far as competing, it was good. Did Kobe, like you guys battling, did he ever say,

good job after the game? You make a play, you get a steal, you block his shot, you do something, did he ever say, good job? Yeah, because sometimes,

you're not going to score on me every single time, right? So I'll do something nice on defense and be like, you know, good job. You know what I mean? Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. And he would try to guard me in the post sometimes, but I'm 260, right? So it's like. You just keep backing him down, huh?

It's a little difficult to guard me in the post. You change your name. You changed your name to Metal World Peace, which is the Buddhist term, which means loving kindness. What made you decide to say, you know what? I, with Ron Artest, end with Metal World Peace. Yeah, you know, I was getting into meditation. So therapy, that evolves to meditation.

That evolves to I feel really good to I want to learn more. Right. And then I started learning Buddhism and I just fell in love with it. Right. And I think I'm going to change my name, like, to something I really love. Right. That really, because meditation and Buddhism, it gave me some type of control. Right.

You know, that I felt breathing and learning. It provided the clarity to you that you didn't have it. Yeah, for sure. It know, that I felt breathing and learning. It provided a clarity to you that you didn't have it. Yeah, for sure. It was like, this is a great feeling. Right. To be able to just breathe

and have clarity and be able to make a better decision. Right. You know, and I was like, Did you kill anyone you was going to change

your name? Or it just came out of the blue? Oh, me and one lady, Heidi. Okay. It was really just me and Heidi. I didn't even really tell my family. Right.

Yeah, I didn't even So when you told them, when you finally did, after. OK. It was really just me and Heidi. I ain't even really tell my family. Right. Yeah, I ain't really tell my family. So when you finally did, after you had changed your name, or you told them you were changing your name, what did they say? Everybody laughed, because they know I'm always there. They thought you were joking. No, they didn't think I was joking. They just knew that Ron was kind of crazy.

Like, you know what I mean? Like that. He just like, yeah, he going to do it. We explained, yeah, we're not surprised. Yeah. So you changed the name to Middle World Peace. But did it take people a while? Or do you get upset?

Because a lot of times, I mean, you see people change their name and people still call them by their original government name. Do you get upset when people call you Ron? I love it, actually. Because that means you know me. Right. The kids, when I first changed my name, a lot of kids call me World Peace. Right. You know, because, like, the kids, when I first changed my name, a lot of kids was calling me World Peace.

Right. You know, because they grow up, they're five years old. Oh, World Peace. They don't know no better, right? And then New York City, old school Indiana. Right. That's wrong. They're not even thinking about calling me better.

Right. I'm looking at some of the players that you played with or against. I'm looking at Colby, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Kyle Lowry. You know, Larry Bird was your coach. Phil Jackson, Isaiah Thomas. I'm thinking Reggie Miller, DikeGrady, Yao Ming, Kyle Lowry, Larry Bird was your coach, Phil Jackson, Isaiah Thomas. I'm thinking Reggie Miller, Dikembe Mutombo, Derek Fisher, Pogosol, Elton Brand. Yeah, very grateful.

What coach did you learn the most from? I learned the most from Carlisle. And sometimes I was I would rate him the best coach I played for. No disrespect to anyone. Yeah.

No disrespect to anyone. Right. Even though we know the Zen Masters influenced me, impacted me more than anybody. Right. And he's amazing. I learned so much from the Zen Masters. Right.

Phil Jackson. Yeah, Phil Jackson. And I learned so much from Rick Zen master. Right. You know. Phil Jackson. Yeah, Phil Jackson. And I learned so much from Rick Adelman. Right. But Carlisle, because he was coaching every play. People don't like how Carlisle coach, by the way. Right. But you're going to be successful.

Right. That's the thing. I was mad at Carlisle, and I'm averaging 24. Right. You know what I'm saying? I'm averaging 24. And I'm like, coach, would you stop calling plays? Right.

He called timeout quick. Like, he wants something wrong. So that type of stuff is annoying, but he taught you how to coach the game. I would pay attention to everything that he was teaching, and that's how I was able to be on the floor and able to, he trusted me. What type of coach was Larry Bird?

Because we know what type of player that he was. Yeah, yeah. What type of coach was he? Larry, well, I wasn't there when he coached. He was the general manager. But he did come down every day. I told him, I said, Larry, I want to get so much better. Right.

And Larry would come down to the gym every single day and talk to me about my game. Right. And that's also when my average went up. Right. I was like, Larry, I watched tape and I was watching tape on Larry before I come back to practice. And I was average went up. Right. Because, you know, I was like, Larry, I watched tape, and I was watching tape on Larry before I come back to practice. Right.

And I was there every day. Right. Sometimes by myself in the gym. Actually, young James Jones was in the gym. Okay. I was kicking his butt in that gym. Every day I was kicking James Jones' butt. Right.

It made him tough. But, you know, Larry would be there working with me on my elbow. He got my elbow in. Right. Chuck Person got my elbow up. Up. You know? And I'm working with both these guys.

Right. And sometimes Chuck Person would be like, that's great, but I'm here with you every day. Larry's just sitting down. So Chuck was like, listen to me because, you know, I'll be changing up. I said, no, I'm listening to Larry too. I'm putting both of y'all up here. Right. And then my shot was just like, bang, bang.

And I was like, man, this is the first time ever in my life I had a jumper. Right. It was just crazy. What was it like playing bang, bang. And I was like, man, this is the first time ever in my life I had a jumper. Right. It was just crazy. What was it like playing with Reggie Miller? Reggie was like, he reminded me of Kobe. Right. Because Derek Fisher was the vocal, the voice. And Reggie was like, show by example. Right. Reggie getting to the gym at 3 p.m. before a game,

which is crazy to me. He's there every day first shooting before practice. Before shoot-arounds, he's there every day first shooting, before practice, before shoot-arounds he's there, shooting after practice, shooting after shoot-arounds. You know, yeah, like really I learned a lot under Reggie. You see, so when you go play with, and you figure you're like, man, I'm a good player, I'm an all-star,

I'm one defensive player of the year, and then you go play with, and you figure you're like, man, I'm a good player. I'm an all-star, one defensive player of the year. And then you go, and you are teammates with other great players, historically great players. Yeah. You look at a Reggie Miller who had the record for the, still currently has the record, well, had the record for the most three-pointers. And you play with Kobe, and you see the work they put in. Yeah.

What are you thinking? Do you think like, damn, I thought I was working hard, but I ain't working like that. Well, not really. I don't know many people that work harder than me. Really? For sure. Right.

Yeah. And it wasn't just working on the game, it was working on your defense. Right. Cardio. Like when I was guarding guys, it was mostly cardio. Right. I was just outlasting guys.

Right. You know what I'm saying? But you know, Kobe had defense too. guys, it was mostly cardio. Right. I was just outlasting guys. Right. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, Kobe had defense, too. Now, Kobe had some defense. Kobe was probably one of the only guys that I've seen work as hard as me. When I seen Kobe work, I was kicking myself in the head. I'm like, you let this guy outwork you? Right.

I'm like, this guy work extreme hard. This is crazy. He's up at 530 in the morning in the gym. and I'm like, this is why you're not a champion This is why you know the champion the gym at 530, right? But you have some you you are a great defensive player, but you have some antics also Yeah, I mean you pull Paul Pierce pay for sure What are some of the other things that you did that you didn't get caught? well, um, oh Well, oh yeah.

A lot. Oh man. So like after somebody would shoot, get him on the elbow. I don't know how the ref missed it. Players be like, he hit me on the elbow, he hit me on the elbow. I don't know what he's talking about, but I don't know how they missed it, but I would get him on the elbow. And then after that, it was just like outworking him. I just figured if I'm physical against you all game, you'll be dead tired at the end. Right.

And I've seen so many people. So you're trying to wear people down. Wear their ass down. Probably wear them down. And I did that. That was my game plan. And sometimes, like, if you worked really hard against me, you was going to run out of energy, depending on who you was.

Right. LeBron James is to run out of energy. Depending on who you was. Right. LeBron James not running out of energy. Who was your favorite player in the NBA growing up? My first favorite player was B.J. Armstrong. Okay. Why B.J. Armstrong? That's the first game I saw. First game I ever saw, Chicago, Pistons, B.J. Armstrong hit a corner three.

Right. And I was like, wait. I was like, oh, this is really cool. Yeah. But then Dennis Rodman. Right. And I was like, wait. I was like, oh, this is really cool. Yeah. But then Dennis Rodman. Right. Is that why you wore 91? For sure.

I was trying to wear every single one of my favorite Bulls players numbers. And when I was doing it, I was going to be in Indiana for the rest of my career. Right. That was what was going to happen. So I was going to have about 10 numbers. Right. I was going to have about 10 numbers. So I changed to MJ, 23.

Right. And I play against MJ in his number.. And I play against MJ in his number. Right. I play against him in his shoes. I get defensive player of the year, third team on NBA, all-star, and my favorite player's number. Right. Like, it was just crazy.

Then I said, cool, now I'm going to Rodman. I get number one in Rodman, 91 in Rodman. Right. I'm averaging a lot of points, and I'm playing just how my favorite, not on offensive end. He wasn't averaging 20. Right. But Rodman's effort was incredible.

Yes. So then 91, and then next year it was going to be Pippen. And then, boom, after that it was just like, you know, my career was pretty much over after that 91. In the end, I was like, I just said whatever. It was going to be Pippen, the cool coach. Right said whatever. I was going to be pipping the cool coach. Right. And then I was going to go down.

You were on the team when the Lakers were trying to trade or they thought they had a trade for Chris Paul. Yeah. Do you believe you guys would have won more championships had you gotten Chris Paul? For sure. Chris Paul is amazing. You know what I'm saying?

I was at the L.A. Clipper gym with Chris. I said, I can't wait to see you tomorrow. Right. This is what happened. So you thought you were done deal. Yeah, we're conversating about this. Let's go, let's go, let's get this ring. And then, boom, he's not there.

And then I'm like, can I see him in the gym again? I'm like, Chris, what the? I guess I got to kick your ass now. But Chris is incredible. He probably would have won a title for sure. You believe you guys would have won a title? Yeah, he was hungry. And he was on a well-seasoned team.

Right. Bunch of vets. Right. Everybody IQ up here. Adding his IQ. I mean, you look at some of the guys that the Lakers have had. Julius Randle, Jordan Clarkson, Brandon Ingram. Yeah.

Did you think they possessed what they've shown since they've been outside of L.A.? Yeah, I mean, I was in the gym with them every day for the last two years, practicing with Williams and those guys. And I would play D'Angelo Russell 101 a lot. Mm-hmm. He's a talented kid. Right.

You could tell he was still 19. His body was like a baby body. Right. He's not needed. But you could tell he was a killer. Right. I'm like, this kid is tough and just so confident. Right.

He's going to be a champion, I believe. And then Brandon, I played against Brandon Ingram one-on-one a lot. And Brandon wanted to smoke. Brandon, 179 pounds. I'm older, but I'm 260. Right. And I'm hitting him in the post, hitting him when he's going to the basket. And you see how he play.

Right. I'm like, this kid go through all the contact. He wants the contact. Right. And I'm like, I don't know if I've ever seen that before. Right. Corey Brewer might be similar. Right.

Slim frame and not afraid. I've never seen nobody 180 pounds, just not afraid. Right. And then Julius Randle replayed a lot. I probably worked the most with Julius. Right. Slim frame and not afraid. I mean, I've never seen nobody 180 pounds just not afraid. Right. And then Julius Randle, we played a lot. I probably worked the most with Julius. Right. I remember he just

always moving so fast. You know what I mean? So working on his footwork, things like that. But he got a body like yours. Julius is strong. Yeah. You know, Julius is

big and strong, and he couldn't really go right all the time. Right. Moving fast. And then Jordan was, Jordan was like, I didn't know what was going to happen to Jordan because all the focus was on the other guys. Right.

It wasn't on Jordan. Right. And Jordan is playing amazing. What do you think the Lakers need to add to win another championship? Nothing. No injuries. I love our team. And I'll tell you why.

I know we had issues with Schroeder, Dennis. I know we had issues with Kuzma. That's easy. That's fixable. I was at the game. And basically, stop worrying so much. Yeah, just play the damn game. Stop worrying about so much.

But when you look at Kuz, I look at Kuz. I believe Kuz with the Lakers have hit his ceiling. Oh, I agree he hit his ceiling with his talent. Yes. He could get better, but, you know, I know what you're saying. Yeah. But he didn't play to his potential. Right.

Which would have helped the Lakers to go over the top. But what's his potential? I think we're over-evaluating him because somehow I think we think he has Brandon Ingram potential or he has Julius Randle, and I don't see that. I don't believe that. Right. I think he's a great player, but sometimes fans and media,

they just, everybody's amazing. Yes, yes. He's amazing. I'm like, this guy is not library. But I believe, like, he could have played better. Right. I think mentally, you've got to bring your best mentally. And mentally is confidence.

Right. If you're not bringing confidence, then you don't really want to win. Right. So I feel like that's fixable. That's easy. Easy fix. So with the Lakers, it's like just no injuries. Right.

Yeah, we'll be good. There's a lot going on with Ben Simmons. Yeah. And his inability to shoot. I don't know. And the way I explain it to people, I say there's a difference between not shooting and being afraid to shoot.

Because if you can't swim, that's one thing. You can learn to swim. But if you're afraid of water, you're not going to be able to swim. So it seems to me that Ben is afraid to shoot not that he can't shoot he's afraid he's paralyzed like oh it's not gonna go in oh they'll found me I'm gonna get to the free throw line and everybody go see me air ball the shot because I think what happened in the playoffs that's what you saw and then you can't have a guy who's

the second most important player on your team yeah six foot eleven become unplayable down the street yeah it, yeah. It was like sad. It really was. It was sad. And I was looking at all the comments. I was like, this is sad. Fixable. Easy fixable.

Easily fixable. But people keep saying it's easy and fixable. But he hasn't fixed it in five years. Well, I don't know. I'm looking at it from a different perspective. Right. Because, you know, I do want to be a head coach one day. Right.

And I've coached so many different people. And you want to win with what you have. So when you're looking at these players on all these different teams, and when you're looking at Ben, right, I'm looking at it as he got butterflies. You probably got butterflies before you play. I got butterflies every game. Right.

I'm not going to tell you I'm nervous, but plenty of times I was nervous. Right. But you learn to live with it. Right. Right? Like, you know, you run in,. Right. But you learn to live with it. Right. Right? Like, you know, you run in, the ball's coming, you got to catch it. You don't want to miss it. Right.

You don't know if you're going to catch it and get a touchdown. Right. What's going through your mind at that point? And I think, like, he has to learn to live with butterflies. Like, literally, game seven, finals, in the playoffs in general. Right. I'm seeing my therapist. Right.

Why? Because I didn't feel I was strong enough. Right. I'm going to admit to that. But I want to win. I want to win by any means necessary. Right. If that means I got to go see my therapist,

I'm doing that. Right. And that's why I think my therapist. You know what I'm saying? Because game seven, rather than being nervous to shoot, I'm like, we worked on some things. Let's go. Yeah.

I'm not worried. This is my opportunity. Yeah, it's fixable. So you believe it's fixable? Yeah, because of what I've been through. Does he believe it's fixable? Because it doesn't matter what we believe. People can say, all he can do is this and that

and do this and that. What does the individual believe? At this point right now, I got to say he don't believe in himself right point right now, I gotta say he don't believe in himself right now. Okay. It looks like he don't believe in himself, and that's really crazy.

It's like those Instagram models, you know, whatever, and they be like, I gotta put more makeup on because I don't know if I look good. I'm like, you look great, what the hell? Like, Ben, you're great. Ben, like, you are incredible. But what if we judge him through a different prism? What if we don't expect him to be Magic?

What if we don't expect him to be LeBron? And says, you know what? Maybe he can be Draymond Green. Right, right, right. And that's not a knock on Draymond. Not a knock on Draymond. Because people, you know, no, Draymond is a champion, a three-time champion. Draymond is incredible.

A defensive player of the year. He's been an all-NBA selection. So Draymond is a night. He's incredible. Right. $90 million contract. Right. A hundred.

A hundred million dollars contract. So what's to say instead of saying, because we're talking about Magic and LeBron, those are transcendent players. It's different. Everybody can't be that. But what if he's just, I mean, and people can say, well, he's a two-time all-defensive player.

He's a three-time all-star. He's all those things that became unplayable to his team in the fourth quarter, late in the fourth quarter. Right. I mean, when you look at these type of players, when they come into the league, people make so much money. Because of the money, they're saying, you made $200 million, you're like Michael Jordan.

Right, no. The money had nothing to do with the talent. How good you are. That is correct. No disrespect to my brother Rashard Lewis. He got $126 million. Right, no. The money has nothing to do with the talent. How good you are. That is correct. Like, no disrespect to my brother Rashard Lewis. He got $126 million. Right.

Doesn't mean he might hate Magic Johnson. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? Right, right. You know what I mean? So they got to keep it in perspective.

They equate, because Rudy, Rudy Gobert is phenomenal for what he does. Right, right, right. But Rudy Gobert makes $200 million.

He ain't Shaq. Right, he ain't Shaq. He ain't David Robinson. He ain't Elijah Ward. I'm sorry. Right, right. He's a hell of a player. Right, right, right. But Rudy Gobert makes $200 million. He ain't Shaq. Right, he ain't Shaq. He ain't David Robinson. He ain't Elijah Ward. I'm sorry. Right, right. He's a hell of a player. Right.

And I think with Ben, you know, I think if you can't shoot, you got to do something else. Right. And you got to, like you said, Draymond Green. He could be an amazing Dennis Rodman. Right. He's a hell of a defender. Right.

He could be Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace, and Draymond in one. Right. You don't need a jumper. Because he can facilitate. He just can't. Draymond, it's not like Draymond is out there

dragging up threes or pulling up. He's just getting it done. But he's facilitating the offense. He can rebound the basketball and he can defend

his ass off. Right. But I think when you look at a guy like Eric Snow. Yeah. He wasn't like a lights out shooter. Right. But he's going to make some. Right. a guy like Eric Snow. Yeah. He wasn't, like, lights out shooter.

Right. But he going to make some. Right. Ben just got to shoot. Like, you got to shoot. You know why you have to shoot? Because if you don't take a good shot, it's 5 on 4. It's 5 on 4.

And you're not putting your teammates in a position to get the offensive rebound. Right. And when I played with Phil Jackson and Kobe took all the shots, then Powell going to take some shots, I was always out of rhythm. So I wouldn offensive rebound. Right. And when I play with Phil Jackson and Kobe take all the shots, then power gonna take some shots. I was always out of rhythm. So I wouldn't shoot right because I'm out of rhythm. Right. But then Brian Shore would say, yo, you got to take a shot because it's in rhythm. So Ben got he has to take those in rhythm. Right?

Even if you didn't shoot air ball, you must take him. I look, I checked his numbers. They played 11 playoff games. He took one shot outside of the paint, and that was the end of the quarter. How you – Metta, how? I'm not upset at that. What I'm really upset about, if anything with Ben, when he did have a layup. Yes. And I'm not upset because he didn't – well, if I was his teammate,

I would have been like, you got to shoot that. I'm not upset because he didn't... Well, if I was his teammate, I would have been like, you got to shoot that. But I'm more upset because you got to break through whatever you're going through mentally and work on it. Right. Like, don't be listening to everybody else going smoke up your ass.

Every athlete been through it, where they had to seek therapy. Right. Sports therapy. Right. Sports therapy is the most amazing thing ever. That's why they have it. Right. You know what I mean? And he should really seek it. It's not that he's psycho or that he got, you know, he's crazy. It's that sports therapy is normal and

he should really consider it. If I could bring a 26-year-old metal world piece back right now, year old metal world piece back right now says okay 26 year old and you can go play for any team who you're going to play for oh no disrespect to anybody um i'm competitive right at 26 right i don't want to play with no all-star well you know you're not going to a championship right i'm going i'm going to championship how you going to a championship, right? I'm going to a championship. How are you going to win a championship? Every team I played for in the playoffs, every team that I played went to the championship. You're not beating Brooklyn if they're healthy.

You're not beating Golden State if they're healthy. You're not beating the Lakers if they're healthy. You're not going solo. I understand you, Michael Jackson, but they got the Beatles over there. They got the Eagles over there. I know that. I mean, if you look at the stats,

when I played against a lot of great players, no disrespect. Right. Sometimes they get 30, 40. That sounds good. But look at the other games. Right. And those numbers was very low.

Right. So you want to come back. So it seems to me you got a problem with the great players in today's game linking up. I don't have a problem with it. You don't have a problem with it? Just personally, me, you know, I told a story a couple times,

and I tell it because I'm honored. So LeBron James hit me up one time when he was the cast. Right. And I remember I was excited because LeBron hit me. I'm a big fan. Even though he's younger, I was a big fan. Right. But before that, I didn't want to play with Kobe, RIP Kobe.

I didn't want to play with LeBron. I didn't want to play with the team back. I wanted to play against these guys. So when LeBron came to play with the team, I was like, I can't come play, you know, because of many reasons. But I can't come. And then I was trying to go to Detroit or Indiana. That's where I wanted to go.

Right. So that's just in me. Right. But then when no teams wanted me, after that, I didn't call back LeBron. So then the Lakers called. I said, I got to just go because I don't know if I'm going to get a contract. Right. But it's not in me to play with anyone.

Right. Because I've chewed me to play with anyone. Right. Because I've chewed a lot of people in the game. Like, you know, I bust a lot of people's ass. Right. I don't need to play with an all-star at all. So, Matt, I want to thank you for coming out. So, I want to appreciate you taking time out of your day to stop in, have some conversation, have a drink with us.

I really appreciate it, bro. Thank you. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice it, bro. Thank you. Want a slice? Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone,

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