Club Shay Shay - Ne-Yo

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Ne-Yo joins Shannon this week inside Club Shay Shay, with the 3-time Grammy Award winner sharing stories about his beginnings, reaching stardom and how the music industry has evolved. Ne-Yo tells Shannon about all of his famous partnerships and collaborations, and what the future holds for the singer and songwriter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Make sure to listen to the Good Morning Football podcast Monday through Friday on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. You and Taylor Smith will make a cute couple. Y'all write about some y'all be killing y'all be killing y'all exes, man. Damn. Oh, Taylor don't want me.

I'm toxic. She don't want me. All my life, I've been grinding all my life. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle paid the price. Want a slice, got the bowl of dice. That's why, all my life, I've been grinding all my life. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Che Che. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Che Che.

And the guy that's stopping by for conversation and a drink today is a three-time Grammy award-winning hitmaker, a multi-platinum-selling singer, iconic songwriter, pop specialist, R&B powerhouse, dancer, composer, producer, internationally acclaimed, recognized, and a live, very, very live and all-the-way live performer, Ne-Yo. What's up, sir?

Bruh, how you doing? I'm good, bro. How are you? Thanks for stopping by, man, to give me a couple minutes of your time today. Not a problem. Thank you for having me. My research, if my research is correct, you're a vodka'm good, brother. How are you? Thank you for stopping by, man, to give me a couple minutes of your time today. Not a problem. Thank you for having me. My research, if my research is correct, you're a vodka drinker. Yes. Yes. I don't have vodka, but I have my very own cognac. I would be honored if you would have a toast to your success and my success.

You want, hey, we're not going to tear the club up because you know the brown people say the brown make you tear the club up. We're not going to tear the club up tonight. That's all good. I'll happily do it. tonight. That's all good. I'll happily do it. Absolutely. Appreciate you, bro.

Yesterday, I, you know, yesterday, Dr. Is this new? You had this a while ago. I had, we went since 2021. Cool. Congratulations, bro. To all the success, bro. Appreciate you.

You did. Man. Cool. Congratulations. To all the success, bro. We did. Smooth. You know, I do a little something. It's smooth. Actually, we won. We beat 1,200 Cognacs at the Sip Awards, the best tasting Cognac in 2022. Yeah.

So I appreciate you doing that. That's dope. So how you doing? I'm good, man. I'm in a good space. Real good space. I appreciate you stopping by. I know you had that. That's dope. So how you doing? I'm good, man. I'm in a good space. Real good space. I appreciate you stopping by. I know you had a big gig in Vegas.

Actually, we were on the plane flying back together yesterday. I was like, man, I don't know if this is going to happen. No, luckily, I am virtually, it's impossible for me to stay awake on an airplane. That's where I catch up on my sleep at. Even though that was like a 13-second flight. Right. You could sleep on a plane? Oh, yeah. I can't stay awake on the airplane. Okay. That's where I catch up on my sleep at, even though that was like a 13-second flight. Right. You could sleep on the plane? Oh, yeah.

I can't stay awake on the plane. The second butt touch seat, I'm gone. I don't want no water. I don't want no peanut. Don't act. Don't act. Leave me alone. I'm gone.

Gone. Whole time. Let's get right into it. What's up? The AI-generated songs. We see that Drake is complaining about, I think he had a song with The Weeknd that generated 20 million streams in 48 hours. He complained about the I think he had a song with The Weeknd generated

20 million streams in 48 hours. He complained about the song that he made with I-Spice. What is your stance on this? I'm just, okay, I feel like technology is very much like fire. It can destroy or it can warm a home. You know what I mean? It's about the way you use it. However, this specific technology, what is the good aspect of it?

What is the positive aspect of this technology? What good thing are they going to do with it? Because I can totally see all the bad things that could be done. Somebody said to me the other day, they have an AI now where you can tell the AI to write a song in the form of Neo, right? And then there's another AI you can go to and get Neo's voice to sing said song that was just written in the form of Neo.

So basically what does that mean? Neo's no longer needed. They don't need Neo. So I'm like, what is the end game with this? I don't understand what the positive aspect of this technology is. So you're telling me that there is an AI that can say, okay, basically be a ghostwriter. Write a song like Neo. Using words that Neo may use, tones that Neo may use.

And then you can go to another AI and get Neo's voice to sing that song. Do you think record companies are going to head in this direction? I don't know. That's the thing. because I don't understand. Even with this Drake thing right now, 20 million streams and however many streams, so that's money that's kind of just sitting there. Who gets paid? Who do they get their money to?

And mind you, how is Drake not allowed to- If it's your song, you feel you should be monetizing that? It's his voice. It's his voice. Used through AI. Like, I feel like he should get something for that. Because they're using his voice. I'm more than certain he didn't give them permission to do that.

You feeling somebody going to get sued behind this, aren't you? Listen, if I hear someone with my voice on it, I might be the first to sue. I'm trying to figure out. Again, I don't get it. If somebody can tell me what the positive aspects of this technology is, all right, let's figure that out. Now it's just a matter of how they use it. But if it ain't no positive aspects, now y'all literally just taking money out of people's pockets. Right. So in other words, they're basically trying to cut the artist, the actual breathing, living artist out of the equation.

That's what it feels like. We see all these social media, TikTok. Are you a fan of these, like, these short, catchy jingles? To a degree. I mean, when it's fun, it's fun, and that's all fine and good. But when all of a sudden now the radio has to play this song because it's so popular on TikTok, meanwhile, the best part of the song you heard on TikTok already and the rest of the song is garbage. You know what I mean? It just takes down the quality of the music played on the radio. Again, it's about the way the technology is used. So you don't like this trend or where it's headed?

Not really, man. I mean, so I feel like people are creating for the algorithm now as opposed to creating from the heart, from the soul, like what music is supposed to music supposed to be therapeutic Music is supposed to be You at your realest, you know I'm saying there's things that I can't say out loud that I can write in a song Right and be totally alright with you know So that's that's supposed to be the realest version of you if you're writing a song And you're making a song a minute and 20 seconds long Because of the fact that if the song is shorter it'll get streamed more right and that then you're not like you're making a song a minute and 20 seconds long because of the fact that if the song is shorter, it'll get streamed more. Right. And then you're not like you're not writing. That's nothing.

You're not saying anything worth being said, in my personal opinion. So I want to ask you this. You do you feel like artists make songs to be popular or do they make songs that they really feel? It seems like me. I'm talking to you. You make songs that you feel passionate about and whether you know. Yeah, I'm talking to you. You make songs that you feel passionate about. And whether, you know, yeah, obviously you want it to be popular. But you're not just specifically trying to make a song that's going to be catchy. That's not my thing. No, music has been therapy for me my entire life.

You know what I mean? I credit my mother for giving me my first red notebook and telling me to write it down. And I was like, write what down? And she's like, I don't give a damn. Just write it down. Right. Because she saw that I needed an outlet. Okay.

You know? So that's what music has always been for me. So if I write something, what I've always found for myself is that if I write from the heart, people tend to feel it more, thus it tends to do better. Right. You know? So I've never been at a place where I was like, okay, let me write something that I feel like is going to make money.

That's never been my motivating factor, I should say, for music. It's always been about being able to express myself, being able to get that thing off me if I need that. That's what music has always been for me. So have you always had this gift? Because obviously you listened to music growing up and you know, like, man, I like this. Did you go after you hear a song and you like, OK, let me try to write something up in the paper to that degree, something like that. I my my mom used to watch TV

with stereo on. OK, like music was always there every day, all day, more than just, you know, cleaning the house on Sunday morning. Like every single day, it's music blaring out of our house. So it took me a minute to take the whole concept of the words that I was putting together and then putting these melodies with these words and then creating a song. Initially, it was just kind of like journal entries. Okay. You know what I mean?

Or poems. I find a little girl i like and i write a write a poem about her hair never get a poem to the girl because i wasn't you know i wasn't that dude okay i had to grow into that dude anyway but uh but yeah that was it is what it is now but but yeah it took a minute to put the two together once i did like it became all i needed like i. Like, I didn't need any other type of therapy. I didn't need anybody to talk to because I had my music. I could, you know, I wasn't judged by anybody when it was just me and my music.

So, like, it became my best friend. Growing up, who were some of the artists that you listened to? I don't know. I mean, Teddy pendergrass was when i going up barry white yeah so classics obviously you know you had um baby face and you had key sweat and you have so who does did neil barry or like okay i kind of like this style i kind of i'm gonna go i don't think uh anybody listening to music in the 90s or was around for music in the 90s, I don't think any songwriter after that period can say that they didn't borrow something from Babyface.

Face is where it's at. Yeah, Face is foundation, right? But then to go further back, your Smokey Robinsons. Okay. I have five kings, and these are the five artists that I've always wanted to like, you know, if I could take these five people and turn them into one person, this is who Neo was going to be. You know, this is what I was going. So it was Prince, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Sammy Davis Jr., Marvin Gaye. So my entire everything, my entire artistry came from me just pulling bits and pieces from these five specific artists. So you're more of a, because most of these guys wrote, a lot of these guys wrote for

themselves. So you like to, you like to write for yourself, but you like to write for other artists also. Indeed. Indeed. I, um, I, I, I started loving was out writing was always my first love. I started loving was writing was always my first love. That's what I'm trying to say. Kanye getting to me, I guess. No, no, no, no, no. But writing be even even so much before performing and all of that writing has always been my first love. So, yeah, I learned that I could do it for other people as well. I actually started out doing it for other people before I got, I guess, confident enough to find my own voice and do the artist thing.

Radio streaming, it seems like streaming is kind of the way to go is like things you still have the radio play, but seems like streaming is the way to go now. Do you have a preference? You know what? I put it like this. When they get the numbers right, when they finally, you know, open up them books and realize that them laws is 100 plus years old, all the music laws are 100 plus years old. Okay. Every aspect of music has evolved except the laws. And the laws are how artists make money. Right. You know what I mean?

Like streaming is cool, fine, and good, but it's to the point where if you are just a songwriter, just a songwriter, it's hard for you to live off of what you do. Right. So, you know, once they get the numbers right with the streaming, I'm all for it. I'm all for, you know, the evolution of the way people get their music, the way people consume their music. I'm all for that. Right.

But at some point, somebody has to go, wait a minute, these guys ain't getting what they were for. Right. You know what I mean? And that's where it's at right now. You know, I don't even remember what a stream is right now, but at one point it was like

a fraction of a penny. Right. You know how many streams you got to get before you can see any real money? You know, that's just, that's messed up. Well, how do you change a system

when the system is not instituting changes because they benefit the most from it? That's the problem. That's the problem. I wish I could say that if the people rallied together,

but again, you know, the people that are pulling, the people that are pulling say that if the people rallied together, but again, the people that are pulling the strings are the people that are benefiting the most from the system staying what it is. So yeah, it's an uphill battle, man. I don't want to figure it out. Why don't love songs sell like they used to? Because it seems like your back in the day

guys song, they were like, I want to be with you for the night. I want to light candles. I want to run Teddy Pendergrass. I want to turn off the lights and run a bath oil. I want to do a bubble bath and do all that. Now it were like, I want to be with you for the night. I want to light candles. I want to run Teddy Pendergrass. I want to turn off the lights and run a bath oil. I want to do a bubble bath and do all that. Now it seems like it's going to be a smash and dash. Yeah, yeah. Smash and dash goes crazy. My bad, my bad, my bad, dawg.

I like it. Smash and dash. No, you got a songwriter spirit, brother. Smash and dash. All right, all right. Ne-Yo said that because, hey, don't come to me. He gave me that idea before we started. I'm going to send you somewriter spirit, brother. Smash and dash. All right, all right. Ne-Yo said that because, hey, don't call me. He gave me that idea before we started. I'm going to send you some royalties, brother.

Co-written by. What happened to the real soul love-making song that you turn on and you're like, oh, but this might jam. I hate to say it this way, but there's really no way to beat around the bush. Every genre of music at one point got a hip-hop makeover. Okay, right country music country music got a hip-hop makeover Okay, right hip-hop has never been about Love so to speak early

It's not that formula in the world of hip-hop that that love and that vulnerability was was looked at as soft Okay, right. So once hip-hop became In the world of hip hop, that love and that vulnerability was looked at as soft. Okay. Right? So once hip hop became literally the biggest music in the world, now all you baby, baby, please guys is looking at the fact that their audiences are shrinking and the hip hop audience is growing. So now it's like, all right, well, maybe she don't want me to beg no more. Maybe that's what they want. All right, well, now I got to be tough.

Now I got to sing the word bitch. What? What? And the women is going to sing it with me. What? This is where we are now. This is where we are now. And again, it is what it is.

I cannot be a lover of music and not find the positive aspects of all genres of music and all evolutions of music. But at the same time, when of all genres of music and all evolutions of music, but at the same time, when an entire genre of music is no longer what it was at its best moments because of this other genre takeover, yeah, man, that don't feel good. That don't feel good. I hear it all the time. Is R&B dead? And if it's not, will R&B ever be what it once was? I do not think that R&B is dead. I think that R&B is going through a bit of an identity crisis right now.

And will R&B ever be what it was? I don't think so. I think that the evolution of music is always going to be a forward motion as opposed to a backward motion. I just think that there's going to come a point where somebody of this new generation is going to realize the power of the way R&B was. And then grab elements of that and pull it into whatever the next thing is. That's what I think is going to happen. Did autotunes ruin R&B? It didn't ruin it.

It just made the club a little less elite. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because back in the day, God was really strong. You had to. Remember he had that long mic? That mic about this long? You had to.

That was what it was. You couldn't be part of the team if you didn't. Right. I'll take it even back further. Like before me, before your Jodeci's and all that that back when it was a whole band is in one room we're about to record this record right the drums got a microphone the guitar got a microphone the singer got a microphone the backup singers got microphones ready action you do the whole song right all the way down right there is no flying taking up hook part and copy and pasting. Right. We gotta do the whole song.

Every hook sang out, the whole, every single time. Right. The person messing up, get your ass outta here, bruh. Like, nah, we gotta start all the way over, cause you missed a note on the bass? Come on, bruh. So you had to be like- You had to be on it. You had to be on it. Now you can push a button and get it all,

which means that the club is not as elite as it once was. Not anybody can come in. No. All right, well, it is what it is. You mentioned boy bands. You started out as a boy band. I did, yes. What happened to the boy band?

To a degree, the same thing that kind of happened to R&B. It's, you know, what's worse than one dude sitting around begging? Four. That's what it became. I mean, it's just the sad truth. That's what it became. Now, if we ever get another boy band, it's going to be more than likely a primarily hip-hop-based situation. Because we got to get back to that point where people realize the power of vulnerability.

I don't think that I don't think anybody understands how much power there is in being able to be vulnerable and make vulnerable, not look weak. There's no right. It's invulnerable. Oh, do you think they'll ever be? I mean, because, you know, will there ever be another New Kids and Boyz II Men and NSYNC? Do you? I mean, splitting 200,000, 300,000 six ways as opposed to like 600,000 one way. Right. Sounds better to me. Right.

Definitely so. Definitely so. I mean, and mind you, let us keep in mind that the boy band is not dead. It's not? It's not dead. It's just Korean. Oh, okay. Okay.

Shout out to BTS. Shout out to the whole K-pop movement. They still going strong with the boy band movement. It's just, I don't know. You know what? I got to give a lot of credit to K-pop. I've been over there and saw just the machine that it is over there. Like, they're literally going from a child and training these kids in music, guitar,

piano, real live music, teaching them how to really sing, really dance, and then deciding if they're going to get in a group or if you're going to be a solo artist. And it's producing a pretty quality product, if I do say so myself. So shout out to K-pop and just everything that's happening in that movement, man. It's dope. What happened to your group? Why did you guys stay together? We disbanded because we was broke

and you can only be broke for so long before being broke with people just gets annoying. It's like- One person being broke, well, you got five people. I can be broke by myself and be a hype for a little while, but if I'm broke with you and I got to listen to you complain about being broke too. Oh,

bro. But now we, we eventually broke up because, you know, things just wasn't moving the way we expected them to move. And mind you, we, it's not like we really sat down and devised like the best plan. Right. You know what I mean? After graduation, we all sat in the Denny's in Las Vegas and wrote out on a napkin what our plan was. And the plan was hop in Corey's van,

because Corey was the only person, only one of us with a car, hop in Corey's van, drive to California, find the Capitol Records building, park in front of the Capitol Records building, jump up on top of the van

and sing our songs until the president of the Capitol Records comes down and gives us a record deal. This was the plan. Right. Notice I didn't mention food. I didn't mention shelter. Yeah.

All of these things that were so easy to overlook. Corey's van provided the shelter, but I don't know about the food. Corey's van provided shelter for six months. Four cats in a VW van for six months. Wow. Yeah. That's the epitome of uncomfortable. But you were dedicated.

You like, okay, this is what it's going to take for the time being. So we got to make the best of the situation. We did what we had to do until we just couldn't do it no more. It just, it just got to the point where it's like, all right,

you know what? Maybe this ain't what it's supposed to be. So did the guy come down from Capitol Records and? The only people that came out of Capitol Records for us was security. Over and over again. Is it moving along? Yes, we got to a first name basis with the security guard at Capitol Records

because we would show up around the same time every day. Get up, sing our songs, you know what I'm saying? We started doing it when we knew everybody was at lunch. So people would come out, you know, sometimes they'd throw us a little change or whatever the case may be. But then after a while, dude was like, all right, y'all gotta make a move.

And all right, Ted, we'll be back tomorrow. Yep. So who would you compare your group to? B2K? What was your group? We idolized Boyz II Men. Okay. We was about finding them four and five part harmonies. Right, right. Y'all love songs. That was our thing. No instruments? Any instruments? Not well enough to get on stage with them, no. Sit in a room and tap out on the piano. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Yeah, this one. Ding, ding, ding. That one. That's about as good as we got with that. So when you performed at MTV, you did Apollo, Showtime at Apollo. You was like, okay, I made it. Or did you like, I'm still not here yet? With the group?

Or just as myself? Yeah, yourself. like I'm still not here yet? With the group or just as myself? Yeah, yourself. As myself, it was definitely good to be able to go back to some of those places where I kind of fell on my face with the group and do it over.

That definitely felt good. But no, I didn't realize I had made it until we used to throw a Grammy party every year. Whether we won or not, we just throw the party. And I remember Prince and Stevie Wonder crashed my party. Now, crash my party is not the way that I want to say that because they didn't get the invite. But who's not letting Stevie Wonder and Prince in their party? So y'all had crashed nothing. They just they showed up. They showed up uninvited.

I didn't invite them because I'm like, I figured they wouldn't come. Right. But yeah, they they crashed my party. So I remember they I remember sitting uninvited. I didn't invite them because I'm like, I figured they wouldn't come. Right. But yeah, they crashed my party. So I remember sitting in the section. Prince is right here and Stevie Wonder is right here. And I'm just sweating bullets. Like, what do I say? Like, these is two of the reasons that I even do this. Right.

So I took a sip of my drink. Prince leans over and goes, what are you drinking? Vodka cranberry. He goes, mind you, drinking? Vodka cranberry. He goes, mind you, I'm already sitting this close to the man. He goes, so now you want me to get even closer. Okay, all right. He says, vodka's bad for you.

And didn't say nothing else the rest of the time he was there. That was the entirety of our conversation. I didn't touch the drink until it left again. I couldn't. Well, clearly you didn't listen to it because I still used vodka. No, no, I didn't touch the drink until it left again. I couldn't. Well, clearly you didn't listen to it because that's still your drink bucket. No, no, I still do the bucket. But in the moment, in the moment, you know, it was that moment, you know, Debo say shut up, I shut up. Right.

But when he leave, I'm talking again. Your first deal. Yeah. What was that moment like? My first deal. My first deal was with deal with was with uh Columbia Records okay and um it was I'll say this it was a learning experience okay you know um as a as an artist signed to a label you don't got a whole lot of freedom but there are some elements of it that that you can control

you know uh I went in under the impression that I had no control of anything. So I was kind of like, it's kind of like a robot a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Pretty much whatever they told me to do,

I did. Whatever they told me to wear, whatever producers they told me to work with, you know, just because I'm thinking, I worked so hard to get here. Let me not rock the boat.

Right. So it finally came down to the album is done. The artwork is done. we've picked the first single, we ready to go, and I'm looking at a flyer of the artwork and I'm like, this is not me. This is not me. This is like, this is baby Tyrese to somebody.

No disrespect to Tyrese, but I feel like that's kind of the direction they was trying to go with me. If you see the pictures, it's like, yeah, it's a little Tyrese-ish. Anyway, much love to Tyrese, but I feel like that's kind of the direction they was trying to go with. Right. Like, if you see the pictures, it's like, yeah, it's a little Tyrese-ish. Okay. Anyway, much love to Tyrese. Anyway, so I go to the label on some, listen, I know the album is finished, but do y'all think I could go in and maybe do one or two more songs that just kind of fit who the hell I am? Right. Right?

And they were like, well, no, album is done. And also your budget is depleted. I'm like, how was my budget depleted? I know exactly what we spent. And this is when I learned that, okay, I don't know if this still goes on. It's been a while since I've had this happen to me, but you get a record deal and they take you out to eat

and they throw that credit card down at the end of the night. And what they don't tell you is that that's your budget on that credit card. What? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we went with Mr. Childs a bunch of different times. I'm like, they just love me in here. Mr. Childs, every time we visit, all right. My label love me. No, I was paying for all that and had no idea. Had no clue. Oh, man. Here's what it was.

Clearly, you said your first deal, so things didn't go as expected. Nah. So when you were dropped, what are you thinking? To be completely honest with you, I went into a slight depression just behind really feeling, my foot was in the door. Maybe I should have just, maybe I should have just went with what they wanted me to do. Maybe I should have, you know, to hell with artistic integrity and just go for it.

Right. But then I know, I know in the back of my head, I would have never been able, I wouldn't have been able to look at myself in the mirror. Right. So I'm back to square one. I'm just kind of trying to figure it out at this point, you know?

Yeah, it was, it was was it was a rough little moment just because i didn't know that that was like the most uncertain moment right that i that i experienced up to then you know because even even when we was living in the van you know i'm talking to my mom every day and i knew that if push come to shove and and it hit the fan i could go home but in this situation i'm out here i'm i'm roughly 20 21 years old i just got dropped from my record label uh my managers is not picking up the phone no more because we got dropped from a regular like he's like all right well clearly they don't want you i have no i have no options no anything right So it's literally a, a back to square one moment. And, um, I just leaned on what was always there, which was the music. You know what I'm saying? I,

I literally met the man that is my manager today as I was walking down the street, just literally singing at the top of my lungs with my eyes closed because I was, that's the only place that I could find solace. and I'm just walking and singing. And he's in an SUV driving in the opposite direction. Skrrt, turned around in the middle of the street and came back. Hey, you sing or something? Yeah, clearly.

Yeah, man. Hey, well check this out, I know this person, this person, that person, I got this studio, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. So mind you, I'm hearing this, I'm seeing his lips moving, but I ain't listening. I'm like, whatever, bro. What?

All right. Well, where? Round the corner. All right, come on, let's go. I hopped in the van again. I don't know who this person is. He could have killed me. I don't know.

He brought me around the corner to these two, these two producers that he was working with. And I worked with him for roughly three to four months before we got the Def Jam deal. And mind you, no contract. He said to me, he said to me, listen, I'm gonna shake your hand right now. If I don't get you a deal in four months, you walk away with that handshake and we go our ways. I don't need no paperwork, I don't need no nothing.

Four months to the day, I had a record deal. I had a record deal with Def Jam, yeah. So much love to Tango, much love to my team, much love to Compound. That's still my folks. So you go at Def Jam. Yeah. So much love to Tango, much love to my team, much love to Compound. That's still my folks. So you go to Def Jam. Yes. That goes, that's your second record contract. Things going well?

Things are going well. Things are going well because I went in there with a little bit of knowledge. It's like, nah, nah, we don't need to go to Mr. Chatham. Nah, we good, we good, we good. Nah, I'm good. I cooked before I left. I'm straight. Leftovers, we good right okay so and then also i i got the opportunity to talk to la

reed um and really talk to him like from an artist from an artist soul to an artist soul right i went to him and said listen the the music that you that you've heard and that you've liked is the music that i really do. If this is a situation where you're going to try to turn me into somebody else, we don't have to do this. I'll go somewhere else. And he said to me, he was like, I'm signing you because I like what you do. Why would I try to change that?

And that was just a, all right, cool. You know, I can actually express myself for real and really be who I am and get this music out here the right way. And sure enough, that's what happened. So when did Jay-Z take over Def Jam for L.A.? Jay-Z came in kind of right at the top of when I got signed. Okay.

Like, you know, L.A. was always, you know, always top dog, but he took up, he's CEO, president, you know. So, yeah, Jay, I mean, my first time going to 106th Park, Jay-Z took me on there. First time going to TRL, Jay-Z took me on. He really kind of just took me under the wing like, this is our new R&B artist. And I appreciate him to this day for it. He got upset with you because you wrote a song and he gave it away. Yeah, yeah. So shortly before the Def Jam situation happened, I leaned on songwriting. Right.

You know, I was just a songwriter. So I wrote a song for Mario, You Should Let Me Love You. Right. So this song goes on and stays at number one for like 12, 13 weeks, something like that. Becomes one of the most played songs in radio history. So when I the first time I got to meet Jay-Z by this time, I've been signed for, you know, a couple of months at this point. I walk into the room and he's in there's an L.A. Reed's office. I walk in. Hey, how you doing? It's nice to meet you. You're like, man, why you get a damn song away?

The first day. Nice. Nice to meet you, I walk in. I'm like, hey, how you doing? It's nice to meet you. He's like, man, why you get a damn song away? That's first aid? Nice to meet you too, bro. All right, cool. I'm Neo. Right. Yeah, yeah. Why you get a damn song away? Yeah, to this day, he get on me about giving a damn song away.

But I was just a songwriter when I wrote it. I didn't write it for myself. I mean, had I known. Do you think you could have done it justice like Mario did? I'll be the first to tell you that Mario got chops that I don't. You know, I ain't got no shame in that. Right. But I know that I got chops too.

Right. So, yeah, I feel like it would have worked either way. Do you, have you ever given a song away that you felt you should have kept? Once or twice. Once or twice. There was a point in time where I would have a little bit of separation anxiety with certain songs. You know what I mean?

Like I feel like, especially if I hear the end result and be like, and am not totally pleased with some of the decisions made, then it becomes that feeling of, man, if you was going to do that, I could have just kept my damn song. But at the same time, you have to you have to let an artist be an artist. Right. I can't allow I can't expect a person to think the way that I'm going to think, make the choices that I'm going to make, especially when I've given them the song. Like Beyonce, for example, if you hear my version of Irreplaceable, you hear the basis, you hear the foundation. But then you hear her version and you hear all the Beyonce isms that she put on top of it. Like you want an artist to do that with brought top of it like you want an artist

To do that right a record. Yeah, you want that? When did you know your pin game was strong? Um When I got my name honestly, um, I got my name from a producer friend of mine Dion Evans He used to work a lot with a with digital in the day, and Pac and all of them. He was a person that dubbed me Neo. It was shortly after the Matrix movie came out. I was going to say, so which came first, that Neo Matrix? Matrix Neo came first. Yeah, that Neo definitely came first. But the reference was the way Neo could do things in the Matrix that other people couldn't do. Correct.

I could do things in music that other people couldn't do. For example, I used to pride myself on how fast I could write a song. Like give me an hour, I'll give you 12 records. Quick, quick, quick. Now notice I said 12 records. I ain't say 12 good records. I learned later on quality versus quantity. But at that moment, I was the cat that was going to get in there and just crank them

out. And Deion says to me, he's like, I was the cat that was going to get in there and just crank them out. And Deion says to me, he's like, he had never seen that before. He's like, you're like the Neo of the music industry. And that's where the name came from. You wrote To the Left, To the Left. Yes, indeed. I think, now correct me if I'm wrong, L.A. Reid, because did you want to do the song and he said give it to Beyonce because he's like, it fits more Beyonce? L.A. was definitely part of that decision. it was okay so it was this I wrote the song to do it myself correct okay right myself and Stargate shout out to Stargate love them guys

to death um but when we got finished with the song and we're listening to it and it's like it's it just we knew it was a hit right but it just didn't feel right right it didn't like i love this song but it's something about this shit i do not like right it became that right so that's that's when we finally started going you know what maybe if we okay maybe if we flip this and flip that and and let a what let a female do it right and like we was on the fence a little bit and la reed was kind of the tipping factor. Like, you know what? Yeah, I definitely feel like this song would get more power punch with a woman singing it. How did you decide to give it to Beyonce?

I didn't. We actually had shopped it to a few different female artists who shall remain nameless. And they didn't want it? I ain't petty, but they didn't want it. They didn't want it. Ooh. They didn't understand what it was. Can we have an they didn't want it. They ain't want it. Ooh. They ain't understand what it was. Can we have an initial?

Ooh, man. Can we have Sabi Sabi? Come on, man. You're giving me trouble in here. I'll say this. It's female artists you know. It's female artists you know.

Man, there's a hundred female artists I know. There's a whole bunch of them, yep, and you know the ones I'm talking about. I mean, give us an initial. I don't mind nothing about her.

Just the first initial. Nah, nah, nah. I ain't gonna do that. I ain't gonna talking about. I mean, it was her initial. I don't mind nothing on her. Just the first initial. No, no, no. I ain't going to do that. I ain't going to do that. But yeah, Beyonce's name was not the first name that popped up when we were shopping the song. But once Beyonce got a hold of it, it became, I mean, the rest is history. Right.

No, no. It became what people know and love today. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes.

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than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's just say for the sake of argument, I sing. I don't. I say, hey, Ne-Yo, I need you to write me something. How much you charge it

okay if you are how does that work how does somebody call you say hey neil can you write me a song or do they send you like what do you think or changes additions how does that normally they'll ask and then uh okay so it's if you're an independent artist right you know i got the independent artist price because i know what it is to so if you're an independent artist, you know, I got the independent artist price because I know what it is to be independent. You're doing everything yourself. I'm not going to charge you what I would charge your record label, for example.

Because I know I'm not- You ain't going to hit a crack. Yeah, I'm not hitting you. I'm hitting your record label. So, you know, however it happens, be it I run it to the artist or artist management, reach out to my management or whatever the case may be, and say, we'd love for Ne-Yo to go into studio

for such and such artist. All right, they would then set up studio time. Right. You know, that they pay for it. However many days or whatever they want me to go in, I go in and whatever I write within those days, I submit to them what they like, they keep, what they don't. I get back and that's how it works.

Have you ever told anybody no? Yes, yes I have. and that's how it works. Have you ever told anybody no? Yes. Yes, I have. Just because I genuinely didn't see, it was a cat that wanted me to do a feature on his record. You know, up and coming dude and it was just some real,

it just, it wouldn't have made no sense. Right. In my personal opinion, it wouldn't have made no sense. Like I'm never going to do anything that's going to intentionally jeopardize my brand or, you know, confuse people in the realm of my brand. And it just wouldn't make no sense. I mean, I'm looking at some of the people you've written for Beyonce, Rihanna, Whitney, Mary J., Jennifer Huston, Monica, I mean, I mean, all these people, I mean,

everybody's coming out in the woodwork saying, Neo, Neo, Neo. And they're expecting you to write

irreplaceable. They're expecting you to write to the left. But damn. I mean, Michael Jordan is going to fit to every game.

There was a couple of 13, 14 points in there too. It's been more than a couple times where, you know,

an artist asks me for something and I'll write them what I feel like is what they asked for and they'll say no. I mean, that happens. But I don't so much because honestly... Well, nah, because what didn't work for you might work for her or him or whoever. And once you give it back to me, it's mine.

There are songs that made it to Beyonce's album, made it to Rihanna's album, that were not written for Beyonce or Rihanna. These are songs that made it to Beyonce's album, made it to Rihanna's album, that were not written for Beyonce or Rihanna. These are songs that other artists turned down and these artists didn't. And now they're looking at how, so let me ask you a question.

How do you think an artist feel? I turned this song down. I turned that song down. Beyonce did it. Rihanna, that could have been. I can imagine that that's a hard pill to swallow. Yeah, I can. But hold on.

Sometimes maybe it's just Beyonce and Rihanna, and you wouldn't have had the same success with said song. That's possible. That's possible. But the reality is you didn't even try. So who's to say? Right. Who's to say?

At least they had the guts to give it a try. Right. And it turned out to work for them have you ever written have you ever written have written for someone because if they say write me a song if you're gonna pay you for it do they ever say nah i'm not good just keep it or you just have to do you have to turn it over to them no i turn it over to them you know and then they decide whether which one they want to keep yeah which ones they want to keep whatever they don't keep they just give back okay And then you shop it to somebody else.

Yeah, yeah. Shop it to somebody else, or I'll take a piece of it, turn it into a hook for this rapper. Right. Everything can be used for something. You know what I mean? Right. It's never anything that just has to send to archive. You ever had anything leaked?

Yeah. Yeah, man. But how? But you have to know who's doing it, Ne-Yo. Nah, so this particular situation, this was back when Sony Studios existed in New York. You know, may it rest, it ain't there no more. Sony Recording Studios. Stargate, they had a room,

a room of their own in Sony Studios. Somebody broke in Sony Studios and stole their hard drives. Me and Brandy had did like four records, and the following week, them joints was in the world. That's because somebody broke in and stole the hard drives wow yeah it happens but since then i mean it's it's it's i don't know it's a slippery slope it's hard to keep anything absolutely private anymore you know so yeah i've definitely had had things leaked but i've always looked at it as all right well if the music leaked

and people like it that just adds to my fan base. Right. Right. So when you when you say the writers, you say the writers and the streaming is not the same writing for an album or things of that nature. Correct. What do you mean? As far as you say, like the streaming service, like the right. You said writers when they stream a record, the writers don't get the compensation that they they deserve well yeah no the streaming the the numbers that writers are getting for for streams is not what it needs to be okay not at all so you got to have like needs to stream like a billion times to make any billion millions and billions of streams before you start to see any real money yes definitely so why do you why do you? I mean, because it seems like everything is kind of like going towards

the streaming industry and that means it gets less and less in your pocket. Well, I mean, there are exceptions to every situation and to every rule. Right.

You know, I, again, my motivating factor has never been finance in regards to this business. I do this because I love it. If there was no money to be made in it anymore,

you'd still find a Ne-Yo song somewhere. Really? Yes, yes, because I don't do this just for money. I thank God and the creator that I can provide for my family doing what I love. But to be honest, if I could not provide for my family doing what I love, I would just find a way to provide for my family while doing what I love.

You know what I mean? Because music is woven into my DNA. I couldn't stop if I wanted to. It's just what it is. So how's the interview process when someone wants you to write a song for them? Do you sit? Do you talk on the phone? Do y'all go out to dinner?

Do you get a sense? I mean, because if you know the artist, you kind of get a sense of the direction they want to go in. I mean, it's always a sign of respect to ask an artist like okay what's the what's the concept like is there a concept to your project as opposed to just trying to shove a song down their throat right you know because it's like well i don't even talk like that all right right so i'll so i'll definitely give the artist the respect of asking you know is there something specific you want to say is there a specific genre that you said that you hunting for you know we'll say we'll have a conversation we'll

have a kind of an off-the-cuff conversation okay how's your love life like what's you know what's going on in your world what's what's keeping you awake at night if anything at all and that's where we figure out what we want to write about okay and that and you know i feel like doing that makes the artist know and understand that this is literally being custom made for you. This is not a song that I had in my back pocket. And then, all right, well, maybe I can sell it to this one. Not you. All right, maybe you.

No, it's like I'm literally asking you where you at. And if you say something that sparks something that I already got, yeah, I'll let you hear it. Right. But ultimately, in that you're paying me to be here, we're going to sit and we're going to talk and I'm going to create something for you from scratch. OK, were you in the studio when Beyonce is doing Irreplaceable? Did you know Irreplaceable was going to be that? I did not. No, I had no idea. And as you as you're writing this song and you hearing her sing it.

Well, here's the thing with Beyonce. Beyonce is one of those few artists that don't really need nobody. Beyonce is one of those few artists that don't really need nobody. Right? So I was there for about 15 minutes. And I remember there was one instance where I tried to feed her a note. And she was like, it's cool. I got it. You're like that?

Go get some coffee. I'm just going by my business. And mind you, by the time I came back in the room, it was done. It was done. It took her maybe an hour to do that. To do what time I came back in the room, it was all done. It was done. It took her maybe an hour to do that thing, to do what she needed to do in that moment. It took her maybe an hour. So that wasn't, I've dealt with artists where you kind of got to hold their hand

through the whole process. Right. And I ain't mad at that either, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, a person like a Beyonce, like Beyonce is, she's an anomaly. Like she don't, she got every note. She know exactly what she want to do ad lib wise and all of that.

Like she'll, she'll listen to your idea, but to be honest, she don't need you there. Right. You know what I mean? So that's, that's what that was. Give me your Mount Rushmore female artist you've written for. Oh man. Mount Rushmore. How many heads on Mount Rushmore?

Four. I wasn't good at any. Four, four heads. Okay. And we ain't gonna let you add none either. Oh, damn. Come on. Yeah. This is my Mount Rushmore. Yeah, I know you want to build a bar, but we ain't building no more heads on Mount Rushmore. I wasn't good at anything. And we ain't gonna let you add none either. Oh, damn. This is my Mount Rushmore. Yeah, I know you wanna build a bar, but we ain't building no more heads on Mount Rushmore. Alright, four. Top four. Beyonce, Rihanna,

Mary J. Blige, Celine Dion. Yeah. Those are my four. Celine Dion. Yeah. So, Celine Dion called you Ne-Yo. Does anybody have anybody, since you started going by the name Ne-Yo, has anybody called you your government name? Um, not...

No. Maybe an attorney called you... Oh, yeah, Mr. Smith. Yeah, no. But does anybody have anybody say in the last 20 years called you by Yeah, Mr. Smith. Yeah, no. But does anybody, has anybody say in the last 20 years called you by your government name? Not any artists. Like, you got to know me. You got to get to that place where you really know who I am before you call me anything other than Neo.

Okay. Yeah. So Celine Dion calls Neo up and says. So how did that conversation go? Surprisingly, she was a fan of my music. She's a fan of my music. We actually met through her husband, you know, may he rest. And he was telling me that she was a fan of the music.

And I was like, yo, I'm a huge Celine Dion fan. I'd love to write with her one day. Mind you, this conversation happens and then a month later, I get a call out of nowhere and it's her. Right. And she tells me she's a fan of the music and tells me that she wants to work together. We did the song. Well, actually, she wanted me

to write her a song initially. Right. Because I've written her songs and there's one that we did together, which was the whole other mind-blowing situation. So she said, I love what you do. I'd love for you to write me some songs I did two songs for her on the man I gotta find it I gotta

find a name in that album not the last one she put out it's like like two albums back at it two songs for on that album and we just kind of kept in contact like she's really really cool people right like like she's she's silly like she doing Elvis first Elvis Presley imperson Like, like she's, she's silly. Like she was doing Elvis, Elvis Presley impersonations. Like she's, she's really, really cool. So,

um, I remember the, the following album cycle, she was like, we have to do a song together. And I'm like, why? Like,

if you have Celine Dion's voice, what the hell do you need Neo voice for? Right. And she's like, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, we're doing a song together. You write it, you let me know when it's done. I'll fly you guys out and voice for? Right. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no. We're doing the song together. You write it. You let me know when it's done. I'll fly you guys out and we make it happen. And sure enough, so I wrote the song. We recorded it at the recording studio that is at the Palms in Las Vegas. Right.

You know, because she was doing her residency there. Residency there. And yeah, man, the rest is history. One of the most genuine people that I've ever met. Like, you know, you meet artists and, you know, some people give you who they really are. Some people give you their representative. Some people give you who they think that you expect to see. Right.

She walked in as her and, you know, unapologetically her. Like, you know, hair in a messy bun. Like, we here to work. Hey, it's nice to meet you. I'm Celine. Let's rock. And I respect that. You wrote, when you wrote Unfaithful for Rihanna,

every time I walk out the door, I see him die a little more inside. I don't want to hurt him anymore. I don't want to take away his life. I don't want to be a murderer. How'd you come up with that hook? That is a story.

A lot of my songs come from actual experiences. And, you know, if it's not an experience of... You and Taylor Swift would make a cute couple. Y'all be killing y'all exes, man. Damn! Oh, Taylor don't want me. I'm toxic.

She don't want me. I'll mess all that up for you, Taylor. All love. I write from experience, man. It's not always my personal experience. Like, for example, Irreplaceable was a story about one of my aunts. I grew up in a house with five aunts.

And that one particular aunt that just always had a new boyfriend. So that story came from, that song came from that story. Unfaithful came from a story that my sister was telling me about a dude that she was dating back in the day. You know, she might get mad at me for telling this story, but it is what it is. Tell it, tell it. I mean, it was one of those situations where- If you got more than one sister, we won't know which one you're talking about. I do, but she'll know.

I'm going to get home and catch a couple of these. Catch a couple of body blows. Nah, but- What did St. David's body blow? She was dealing with this dude, and it was that these. Catch a couple of body blows. Nah, but, um. What do you say, David, body blows? She was, she was dealing, she was dealing with this dude and it was that whole situation of he's just, he's just too nice. Right. He's so nice.

Like, I literally just walk over his back. He's so nice. So because he was so nice, she started dealing with somebody else. Right. And it got to the point where, like, everybody knew. Everybody knew. And it's like, okay, okay. She's, she's, she's doing what she's doing.

The whole family knows, her friends know, his friends know. The only person that acting like they don't know is him. And it's like, what do you do? So that's where the whole thing came from because she felt terrible about it. But at the same time, it's like- Not enough to stop doing it though. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what it was. That's what it was. Thank you. Oh, her name oh she's gonna be mad she'll be mad you'll be all right you'll be all right taylor swift said that breakups are great for writing songs hell yeah is that how you feel absolutely yes definitely so i don't know what it is about heartbreak or or turmoil or drama or animosity or sadness but for whatever reason when you when you put yourself there and you write anything it's gonna be deep it's gonna be meaningful it's gonna have depth it's gonna have emotion and those are those are some of the key ingredients to a

song that you just can't stop singing so in in other words, just because, you know, because everybody automatically thinks that when you write a song, you're talking about a personal experience. Like Usher, Confessions, everybody says, he talking about Chili. Yeah. But you're saying that, hey, you know, it might be an aunt, it might be a sister, it might be a homeboy that was going through something. It's not always me.

No, not always. Because my story and what's going on with me, you know, I'm a dabble into it a little bit. But for the most part, I'm I've learned that it's certain aspects of me that I would like to keep for me. Right. You know, because the world it ain't a person walking the face of the planet that has a right to judge anybody. Right. It don't stop them. Right. And, you know, I got kids. I don't want my kids to to to get into all that and see all of that you know but other than that yeah i write from i write from just things that i've always found that if i write from something that really happened the song just

comes out better i can make it up all day right but those songs just don't have the same you know what i mean like it's that thing right it's that thing. Right. It's that thing like, no, this really happened. I really had to, you know, I really couldn't turn the radio off. I really had the answer machine where the, hey, we can't come to the phone right now.

You know, we mind you, we was kids, we didn't know what the hell we was doing. Right. But like the fine details that you can put into it when it's something that you really experience.

Like that's the, like that's the weapon X that turns it into that hit song. Because you're in this place, it's on your mind. You can't seem to escape it. The mind can't relate, can't erase what the heart can't delete. And so you're writing. And so that puts you in a space that, man, I might as well, you know, turn this heartbreak into something. Yeah. Something good can come out heartbreak into something. Yeah.

Something good can come out of every bad situation. Definitely so. We don't see it at the time, but you says, okay, this happened, didn't end the way I wanted to, I'm putting pen to paper. Yep, absolutely. It is the ultimate gift from God

because, you know, everybody goes through hurt and heartache and pain not everybody gets the outlet that music is. You know, I don't have to I don't have to pack it down and eventually blow up for something stupid. No. As soon as I feel it, as soon as my chest get heavy, I can sit and write it and after

I'm done writing, I'm good because it ain't in me no more. It's here now, you know, and I'm going to get out to the world and like-minded people are going to listen to it and be like, yeah, I understand that. I've been there before. I felt that before. And that's how we get to where I am now. Do you think any of the women, like songs that you wrote, like, you know what wrote this about me?

I know it. Yes. I've been, some of them have reached out and asked. Is that about me? No. You ain't going to get no residual. No, I ain't talking about of them have reached out and asked. Is that about me? No. You ain't been getting no residual. No, I ain't talking about you. It's about you.

That don't mean you get no money for it. Yeah, you know damn well it's about you. Come on. I put the date in the song. You know it's about you. However, enjoy it from your Honda Civic. We good. We see a lot of, you got an extensive catalog.

We see a lot of people selling off their catalog. Is that something that you're interested in? If it's for the right price, yeah. Yeah, for the right price, I'll definitely do that

just because I know that I'm not done. Like, I haven't written my greatest song. Right. So if you sell your catalog, that means you start the process of another

or does everything that you write go into that catalog? No, no, no. You start the process. You start another does everything that you write go into that catalog oh no no you start the process you start another one okay start over which i have again i have no problem with because i i i have yet to write my most amazing record and as things happen in my life you know as time progresses and different things happen i just got more and more ammo for for this gun so yeah do you like writing more or do you like performing more? As of late, writing more. I love to perform.

I love to get out there and, you know, do that whole energy exchange. You're a performer. I am. Absolutely so. Because you have singers. You have performers. And you can do both. But you really like performing.

Performing is my thing. I can stand still and sing a song but I ain't gonna have no fun. If I don't have no fun you probably ain't gonna have no fun either. So no, we gonna jump around. We gonna work the whole stage. This is who I am.

Yes. Where are you on social media? What are my social media handles? Hold on. The IG is at Neo. The Twitter is at Neo Compound.

You know how to do the Facebook thing. Do you respond to comments? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't I don't read comments as much anymore because for whatever reason, you read them comments and all of a sudden you start to like let those opinions mean something. When the reality is opinions are not special because literally everybody got one. Right. So I don't I don't read comments as much as I used to. But should you receive a DM from me and you see the yellow, you see the blue dot, you know that that's really me. It's really me.

I'm really responding. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Let's get, I want to get to your upbringing before I get you out of here. Born in Arkansas. Yes. How old were you when you left Arkansas and went to Vegas? Roughly eight, nine years old. Okay. Somewhere in got to Vegas and stayed in Vegas with the high school in Las Vegas, the whole nine.

Right. That was weird. Definitely. Just it wasn't weird as it was happening. It's weird as I look back and like know how other people's high school situation went. You know, you go through high school with that clique of friends all the way up and you graduate together and all that. I don't happen in Vegas because everybody's coming in to do what they gonna do for about a year it's a tourist town right it's military base you know I'm saying they in and out so every school year you start with brand new people right teaches you how to be a people person not to mention there's a strip every damn weekend where you meet

Susan and her nine friends from Minnesota and they just and and yeah so don't so don't so that's the best, that's part of the best parts about Vegas, huh? Um, you meet a lot of people. You meet a lot of different people from all walks of life. Everybody finding their way to Vegas at some point. Um, yeah, to a degree, to a degree. 50 degrees, 75 degrees, 100 degrees?

I mean, I'm, I'll say this. As my age progresses, my patience gets shorter. You know what I mean? Like, energy becomes real, real important as time progresses. And now I'm real picky and choosy about what I choose to give energy to and who. So, yeah. Did growing up in Vegas make you want to do showbiz, make you want to get on stage? Absolutely. Yeah, man. That was that was, you know, you hit the strip as as a teenager and you see the limos pull up and you see the celebrity get out.

And, you know, if you get a chance to get into any of these Vegas shows and you just it's an experience, bro, especially as a kid, you're looking at that like, oh, man, that's going to be me. That's that's what I want to do right there yeah so your parents they weren't together so so did did it have an impact that your dad wasn't around and you said you talked about your mom you talked about the women in your life your aunts and you you wrote songs you had seems like your sisters and your mom and your aunts you so you had very strong women around you definitely so definitely so. Had uncles that, you know, that were there, but, you know, they show up, eat and leave. Right. But, no, it was primarily my mother, my grandmother, five aunts, my sister. Okay.

And me. Right. And I never really felt like I was missing anything from not having a dad until, you know, I got of a certain age and I'm in school and my friends are talking about their dads and what they're doing with their dads. And I'm like, wait a minute, I ain't never did that. And then it becomes a thing. Do you play sports? Not really. A little bit, but I never really took it serious.

I was more of an artistic kid than an athletic kid. I could do it. But if I had the option, I was somewhere writing a song. How did being raised by women impact your songwriting? It helped me escape the potential of the whole toxic masculinity thing that everybody's so up in an uproar about today. everybody so up in an uproar about today um i feel like toxic masculinity is the opposite of a person that is in touch with and not afraid of emotion like i've heard people say how do you write from from the mind of a woman so well and it's like i'm not writing from the mind of a woman i'm writing from the mind of a person that's not afraid of emotion you're giving these emotions for a reason

okay that they're supposed to help you throughout life. You're not supposed to ignore them. You know, that whole boys don't cry. That's not a thing. Right. It's not a thing at all. Like that's, that's how you, that's how you breed that toxic male. You know, I got to address every situation with aggression. That's how, that's how you breed that. My mom didn't raise me like that. She said, if it's smart, if it feels good, smile. And if it hurts, cry, and never be ashamed of either one, because you're giving them for a reason.

They're tools. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claibon, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook,

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Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you feel like men suppress a lot of their true feelings, emotions, and they can't properly

be who they truly are? Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like, especially nowadays where, you know, all vulnerability is viewed as weakness and any man showing any is is ridiculed or whatever or something like that yeah yeah you get caught and it's like i've just never i've just never bought into that you know i'm saying i've i've i've been bullied before i understand what that is you know nine times out of ten the cat bullying you is getting bullied his daddy whooping his ass something's happening to him right It's not just, he ain't just wake up and decide to mess with you. He messing with you because somebody messing with him. I get that. I understand

what that is. I just really feel like the way that my mom brought me up, don't even run, she didn't bring me up as no chump. You know what I'm saying? She definitely taught me how to fend for self and defend myself. But at the same time, she taught me that every situation is not called

for aggression. You know, you sit up and argue with a fool to the people watching. They don't know who the fool is. Y'all both look like fools right now. And that was me growing up. I wasn't a cat that was so eager to jump into a fight. You know what I'm saying? Nine times out of 10, I'm talking so fast, you don't want to fight no more. That's who I was. That's who I was. I read your favorite sport is boxing. You still a boxing fan? out of 10 i'm talking so fast you don't want to fight no more that's what that's what i was i read your favorite sport is boxing you still a boxing fan absolutely absolutely congrats tank you did that yeah man so growing up in vegas the fight capital world i don't know how many fights uh tyson that you saw mayweather that you saw what is it about the fight game that makes you such a fan? I love the strategy.

Okay. There's some fighters that I'm more of a fan of than others. You know, you got your sluggers. Your catchers just going to go out there and swing as hard as they can until somebody fall down. Right. That's what we're finding good. Floyd has always been a favorite of mine because he's strategic.

Right. Floyd's game is not hitting you. Floyd's game is making you miss which is just even more embarrassing like that's that's the mind games of floyd's plays i'm gonna let you i'm gonna let you swing for the fences and you're gonna hit me none you're not gonna touch me right i love i've always loved just the the cleverness of something that's supposed to be so brutal but you literally gotta use your mind if you're gonna be good at it, if you're gonna be successful at it. This brutal blood sport where you feel like it's just two men going in there

beating the hell out of each other for the hell of it. Nah, this is a strategic game. You know what I mean? And it's just, I've always been a fan of that contrast. It's like, this is what you expect, but in actuality, it's really this. I've always been a fan of that. I'm gonna get you out of here with the last two questions.

Do you feel as an entertainer that you need more than one revenue stream? Yes. Because you entertain, you sing, you write. Absolutely so. We already discussed the fact that songwriters, just as songwriters, if you're not making billions and billions and billions of streams, you can't even live off your livelihood. You know what I mean? You'll have a hit song on the radio and be broke. This is a real thing. That'll make no sense. It doesn't. There's no other medium that that happens in. You can't have the number one blockbuster movie

in America and live in an apartment. That's not happening now. They done paid you well for that. Music, not so much. That's just what happens. So yes, as an artist, as a songwriter, it is in your best interest to have multiple streams of revenue you know um if you are a person with a personality use that you know don't rely on just one aspect of entertainment if you are a person that understands what entertainment is right and your entertainment value i see you throwing your hat in the acting ring you're gonna be on an episode of 50 Cent's BMF. Yes, yes. A few episodes. A few episodes. I'm excited.

I met 50 a while ago. You know what I'm saying? We did a joint together. So we always kind of kept in contact. He basically told me that he was going to figure out a way for us to work because he saw that I was interested in doing the acting thing. So he's like, we're going to figure it out. We're going to find a way for us to work? Because he saw that I was, you know, that I was interested in doing the acting thing.

So he's like, we're going to figure it out. We're going to find a way to find a way to make it work. He threw me a couple auditions. And mind you, that's one thing that I really love about him is that he wasn't just going to give me something. Right. You know, he's like, yo, you know, this is an opportunity.

You get in there, you do the audition. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't. Right. And like, I respect that, you know? So same thing with this BMF situation that's going on now he said i think i found something that's gonna make sense you know or at least i would like to see you in this role so he probably he approached me with the bmf thing i'm i think i i don't you know what let me not even give it

away yeah i'm on bmf for a few episodes yeah yeah i Yeah, I'm going to leave it at that. Man, I got to get some clarity on this. You once found one of your artists asleep in your bed. Now, I'm assuming you got a nice size house. Probably more than one bedroom. I'm assuming. I mean, that's very presumptuous of me. Oh, man. Thinking that Ne-Yo's got a nice house.

He has more than one bedroom. So why? What made him think it would be okay? Was he... Explain it. Explain it. Okay. All right.

Shout out to my man, Lucky Day. I love you today. He'd have been unlucky that day. Because I'd have put something on him. I didn't bring you back up, Pimpin'. I didn't bring you back up. But we here. All right.

Lucky Day is an R&B artist extraordinary won a Grammy last year like dude is doing his thing I love that he's doing his thing before lucky day got his shot uh there was a time a point in time where I was going to sign him okay right so you know uh we writing songs together he wasn't your artist at the time you was thinking about signing we were we were gonna sign him yeah Okay, okay, okay. But we were writing songs together. For example, Jamie Foxx's verse on... Miss Independent? Yeah.

He wrote that. Okay. He wrote that. So basically, I'm about to go on the road. I gave him access to my house. I'm like, listen, you can post up here. You know what I'm saying? Do what you do.

One rule. One rule. Don't go in my room. Hold on, hold on. So you, so crystal clear. You made it abundantly clear. That's it. You have access to the entire house.

Stay your ass out of my room. Stay out of my room. Okay. Right? Got it, I got it. Go on the road, you know what I'm saying? Chatting with the cat back and forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I ain't destroying the house. All right, cool. Good, cool. So I get home that morning. I go into my room, and old boy is asleep in my bed with a young lady. I'm like, all righty. So, yeah, I took it upon myself to wake him up and be like, come on, bro. You got to go.

Hold up. You ain't waking him up with a right left? No, no, no, no. How did that lot of walking ass over the two-piece? I'm zen, bro. I'm zen. I politely was like, hey.

I'd have gave him breakfast in bed. You got to go. He'd have to get up and there ain't no way that he's going to be sleeping in my bed. I don't tell you

you have access to the house, eat all the food in the kitchen, the refrigerator. You can go, I got five-bedroom crib and you can bring your fucking ass

and I'll die. I had to have him. I know your mom say, hey, every situation doesn't call for aggression. Yeah. Yeah, I had to get real aggressive with him. I know your mom say, every situation does a call for aggression. I had to get real aggressive with him. You know, it is... I can't even talk to him. It is what it is.

But we've spoken since then. You know what I'm saying? It's all love. It ain't no beef or animosity whatsoever. I'm more than happy for old boy and what he's doing in his career. You know what? I kind of empathize with it because I don't know.

I'm about to add it to it. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, man, this is me. This is me. Yeah, let me show you the bedroom. Ne-Yo, you know that's how I went. That's probably exactly how I went. I don't mind.

This is nice. I don't mind. I don't mind. I let my friends use the Ne-Yo. They can use it. It's cool. Last question. World of Dance, your co-star.

Yes. How did that impact you hearing that news? Or did you know he was going through something? That. That. I had no idea that he was going through anything. And, you know, just from the circle of friends that I knew that knew him, they had no idea that he was going through anything.

I've always looked at that with a side eye. I ain't making no accusations or nothing like that. But just the twitch that I knew. Right. He was that man was in love with his children. Right. That man was in love with his wife. That man was in love with life.

I can't I can't say I knew what he was going through, and you never know what somebody's going through in the dark. You have no idea. But the tWitch that I knew, the tWitch that was represented to me was not somebody that would have did that. So I've always felt a way about that. You know what I'm saying? He was, brother was a light.

You know what I mean? Like, you meet people, and it's like like it's just a bright dude. Right. It's just good energy coming off of this dude. And that's who he was. That's who he was. Every time I saw him, that's who he was. So, I don't know. That story just never added up to me personally. But

it is what it is. Appreciate you. Thanks for your time. All love, sir. Appreciate you stopping by the club. Indeed. All the best moving forward. Thank you, sir. Thank you for having me sweating in and drinking. up, sir. All the best moving forward. Thank you, sir. Thank you for having me sweating in a drinking bag. Yeah, man. I've been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got to roll the dice. That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast,

NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolfe. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.