Club Shay Shay - Nightcap Hour 1: Browns Give Kevin Stefanski the BOOT + Pete Carroll DOESN'T LAST in Las Vegas + Zac Taylor tells his STAFF they're SAFE + Ocho's SPOKEN WORD to Ravens Tyler Loop

Episode Date: January 6, 2026

Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson and Iso Joe Johnson react to the Cleveland Browns have fired Kevin Stefanski has head coach, the Las Vegas Raiders have fired Pete Carroll as head coach and Zac Taylor says he is not changing any staff members after rough season and much more! Subscribe to Nightcap presented by PrizePicks so you don’t miss out on any new drops! Download the PrizePicks app today and use code SHANNON to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/NI... 5:20 - Browns give Stefanski the boot30:02 - Raiders fired Pete Carroll after 1 season51:45 - Zac Taylor aren’t changing staff in Cincy58:00 - Ocho’s Spoken Word segment (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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mortgage payments american financing america's home for home loans call today at 866 886 889 1776 or visit american financing dot net slash nightcap Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap at a very special time. We greatly appreciate that. Y'all know who I am. I'm your favorite unc, and that is my partner and co-host, the Liberty City legend, the bingo ring of fame honorary. Team's not making the playoffs again. Former Pro Bowl and the All-Pro, that is Chad Ocho Sinko Johnson.

And the third member of the Big Three, joining us on Monday instead of Wednesday. Y'all know him, University of Arkansas alum, Little Rock, Arkansas native, seven-time NBA All-Star, Atlanta Hawk Great Legend, here he is, Iso Joe. Joe, what to do? Man, what's happening? What's happening? Your team not making the playoffs again.

you and Ocho, y'all should have a little sidebar conversation. Come on, come on, come on, come on, I thought y'all got all this out of this out. I thought y'all, we did. Hey, Joe, I'm kind of confused, too. We keep talking about teams not making the playoffs when the Raven didn't make it. Oh, you thought what happened us, Ocho.

That was just happenstance. You didn't make the playoffs regards to what happened on the reason why you didn't make it. You still didn't make it. So I'm trying to figure out why you're so happy. Because he's going to rip them brunco. It ain't no coincidence. Savannah State,

and who in the orange? Just saying. And he's going to front-wrecked. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. Do us a favor. Go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed. Wherever you get your podcast from,

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Try it. Compare it against others, and you'll see we have the best tasting smooth as BSOP. Gagnac on the market. Please drink responsibly and stay safe. Go check out my media company page on all of its platform. Shee Shee Media and my clothing company, 84 with 84 being spelled out. That link is pinned in the chat. Joe, I don't know what you guys call into your season, but in the NFL, Monday is called Black Monday

because that's when a lot of organizations turn over and fire their coaches and go in a different direction. Sometimes they fire general manager and coaches. Sometimes it's just a coach. But in this situation, we're going to start off with the Cleveland Browns. They have fired Kevin Stefansky after six years. He's a two-time coach of the year, and he won Cleveland's first playoff game in more than 25 years. Despite those accolades, Stefansky exit with a 45 and 56 record and went 8 and 26 in his last two season.

The majority of Stefansky's success came with Baker Mayfield, but the Browns have since traded him away. This is the list of passes in no particular order that has come along since Baker. Deshawn Watson, Jacoby Brissette, Joe Flacco, James Winston, Shador Sanders, Dylan Gabriel, Dorian Thompson, P.J. Walker, Jeff, Driscoe, and Bailey, Zappie. That's a lot of quarterbacks. Now, it was reported today, and I don't know, Pete Priscoe, who writes for CBS Sports.com, he's reported that Stefansky never wanted Deshaun Watson. Ocho, I don't know if you saw it, but I was talking to John, and I asked him one of the reasons why I asked him, you know, one of his biggest regret, is that. that he didn't take Josh Allen. And I said, well, why didn't you take him? He said, Sharpe, I just couldn't get the coaches to buy in.

He was really, really raw. And it was going to take some time for him to develop. You know, he didn't throw, he turned the ball over and he didn't throw with a high completion. But I just couldn't get the coaches to buy in. And when you're talking about, you know, taking somebody with the fifth pick of the draft and you're taking a big time fridge, like a quarterback position,

like a Deshawn Watson. Oh Joe, you need everybody bought in. Can't nobody. Yes. There can't be any lukewarm feeling. Well, yeah, I, I'll cope. No, we got to be all bought in. Now, that's what Pete Priscoe said.

We don't know that to be true. But what it did, because it hadn't worked out so far, Ocho, it kind of doomed the franchise. Because think about what you gave up. Three first rounders, you gave up a second round. I think you gave a third round of what they all gave up. And when it doesn't work out, Ocho, yes. Well, Unk, well, listen to you.

And Joe and, I mean, this didn't doom the franchise. the franchise has been doomed before that situation even happened. They've been through 37,000 quarterbacks. They haven't been able to find the one. Now, obviously, if Josh Allen, if they've gotten Josh Allen, despite what they might have seen on tape, listen, when you draft, regardless of what round, regards to what pick, it's still hit or miss,

no matter what. You can get somebody in the first round that played great in college and it might not translate over into the NFL. It just happens like that. Sometimes this year's draft, we're talking about some of the players that are coming to the draft they're going to very bad teams and when they go to these bad teams some of these players that are going to go early aren't transcending talents they're not generational talents but they have a superior supporting cast around them in college

and therefore they're going to go high to a very bad team and you're going to wonder why they struggle they struggle because of them having i mean them not having the tools and the supporting cast around when they get to these NFL teams and it's a different ball game if you're not a transcending talent which i really haven't seen i'm talking about a generational talent that would show up right now in college there is not that that's there's not that coming into the draft right it's not i'm just i'm just being honest and i'm not sure people in the chat i'm not sure what you watch it even even though college players that have played well those college quarterbacks ain't no lamar jacks ain't no josh allen's ain't no joe burroughs ain't no patrick mahomes

Now, there's a chance they could pan out to be that, but teams don't have the patience for that's what happened. Or the coach, because if you go back and think about Ocho, Josh Allen is rookie year with a turnover machine. It wasn't until he got Brian Dayball. That he turned into the Josh Allen that we see now and the guy that's taken over

has even taken him to a higher height and got him to an MVP. So that's the thing. They're going to be some rough spots. And the question is, are we built to withstand those rough spots until he gets this thing figured out. And Joe, this is another thing.

Joe and Unk, if you're not built, which you aren't going to be, the Raiders aren't built. And whoever they pick, they're going to get a quarterback, Joe. They got to. They're going to get a quarterback, Unk. Do you trust Mark Davis and all the people

that are in that building, that are in positions of power to build a team around him to make sure he can be competent a good quarterback for the future because if you don't what's going to happen that shit can be demoralizing Joe Joe you go into the wrong

situation like that and you ain't got no helper and you ain't got no help around you I can imagine I can imagine you come from a winning program where you've won everything and then you come to the NFL and it's a different ball game Joe this is the best of the best

but it's levels to everything it's the best of the best and you're going early but the team you're on is just not good. The players you're playing with, even though they're part of the 1% they're just not good. What do you think, Joe?

Man, we talk, what team you're all talking about right now, Uncle Ocho? He's your talking about a quarterback, top quarterbacks go into a bad situation because that's the way we're talking about. The best players supposed to go to the worst teams

and help them all of a sudden they're not the worst teams anymore. Yeah, I know. know, I know you had said some about, you know, these coaches getting fired. Sir Fasker, you know, even when I look, yeah, even when I look at the Cleveland situation, man, you got a pretty good quarterback, okay, Ocho. Why not just, like, beef up your offensive line, get, get some more weapons, whoever you're going to have back that throwing the ball.

At the end of the day, man, you got to protect the quarterback, and you got to give him some more weapons from what I've been saying. They definitely did wide receiver. You got Quinn, uh, uh, uh, Junkins. We'll see how soon he can come back. That's the same. Will he come? I mean, is he going to miss?

time, Ocho, you know, he had a serious injury. Will he miss time? Will he be back for OTAs? Will he be ready for training camp? How soon and will he be back? I think the thing is, Ocho, is that, but see, when you get a 26-year-old, that's proven, it's supposed to be K&Miss. We're not talking about a guy out of college, Ocho.

We're talking about a guy that at the time that they signed him, he was a top five quarterback. Everybody had Deshaun Watson in their top five. So that's not a situation where we're getting a guy that's never played, never thrown in NFL football, never doesn't know what it's like to go to NFL meetings and lead a huddle and command and be the voice

men among men. That's Deshaun Watson. 26 years of age, he had just led the league in passing, had been a pro quo player. So he was supposed to be Can't Miss. You get Tom Brady, you get Tom Brady going to Tampa, he can't miss. You get Peyton Manning. Granted now, Peyton Manning

was he had the elbow, the nerve in his nerve in his neck, Ocho. But based on that, if everything checked out, if he could throw the ball 40 yards, Peyton Manning was supposed to be Camp Miss. That was Deshaun Watson, 26 years of age, fully healthy, just led the league in passing.

And he gets to Cleveland, and for whatever reason, I'm like, I don't know this guy. I don't know this guy. This is not the guy that came from Houston, Ocho. I don't know it. Yeah, yeah. And you're right.

Cleveland, you need wide receivers. You got a great tight end, but it doesn't hurt to have another one. Yeah. Knox and Kincaid. Did you see how they got that in Buffalo, on show? Hold on, what about the Bears?

Yeah, Loveland and Co-Commett. And Loveland. Yeah, Lovelin. Yeah, you got Warren, you got more Alley Cox and the Colts. You got two tight ends, you got Strange, and the other guy at Jacksonville. So they need weapons.

They need to beef up that offensive line. The offensive line is just not good enough right now. Man. They're not good enough right now, but you need weapons. But you can't keep, you can't keep shuttling quarterbacks in and out. Yeah. You mentioned Mark Davis. I ain't got no problem with Mark Davis because Mark Davis will.

Now, he's not like his dad. He's not meddlesome like his dad. He trusts the people that he hired. The people that he hired just effed it up. because he didn't want to fire John Gruden. The NFL made him. Yeah. And he's one of those, he's one of those owners.

He's not like his dad. They'd have never made his dad fire anybody. He's like, fire him. He wouldn't hire some more of his family. Just, that's not, Joe, you didn't catch you. See, I called the real.

He's like that. That's not how his son is. His son is like, okay, I'll tow the company line. I'll do everything. Jerry has replaced his dad as the outlaw. Man, I'm going to do what the hell I say. I pay for this team.

I'm not going to let you tell me what to do or boss me around. But, Ocho, here's what Jimmy Haslam had to say about the state of the Browns. And I want you to hear this, okay? First of all, ownership takes full responsibility for where we are. To win eight games in two years is horrible. It's totally unacceptable, okay? And it's not going to continue. Okay.

And I want the fans to know we are as frustrated as you are. Hey, uh, is one thing about it, right? Hey, listen, ownership,

ownership. Hey, this is the funny thing about it. Ownership takes full responsibility. They have to. Hey, owners can't get fired, Joe.

I don't know. Hey, the people, hey, the people that own, they can't get fired. 400, probably 400,

425 coming, Ocho in March. What that mean? The TV. contract every NFL's team cut oh yeah hey so wait

oh 425 million yeah how much we get out of that we don't own no team and oh show now that's the TV cut now we didn't say nothing

about you selling tickets we didn't say nothing about the local advertising it we didn't say nothing about local TV local sponsorship we didn't say nothing by parking and we didn't say nothing by concession yeah oh yeah it add up

You ain't got to tell me twice. I understand the business side of things. I just don't like to talk about it. Okay. Brown's general manager, Andrew Barry, said today that he was non-committal on the team starting quarterback for 2026 and that a new head coach will have a say in the decision. Barry said, we're going to do our work on the quarterback market. It's too important of a position.

And it's something that has to be solidified. I can't sit here and tell you today whether the starter in 2026 is internal or external. But it's something that we're going to work through. over the next several weeks. And quite honestly, the new head coach will also have a lot of input into that way. Oh, Cho, you see what he said? Yes.

Talk to me. He said, it's too important a position. He said, I can't sit here today and tell you internal left quarter. Oh, Andrew Barry said today that he was non-committal on the starting quarterback for the 2026 season. Right. And the new head coach will have a safe.

He should have be safe. he got a coach you see what he did yeah he gonna put again gonna put somebody on the head coach that maybe the head coach doesn't want and then i'm stuck yeah it's like your grandma's to put that plate down for you man i don't want that okay do without but but obviously obviously Andrew Barry they've made mistakes when it comes to how he still got a job picking and I don't advocate anybody I don't advocate anybody getting fired at you know you might get fired at you I'm just saying you find okay Stephansky and I'm not saying Stefansky didn't deserve to go but I'm saying who hires Stefansky

who brought all those players in he did so he bring all those players in he stays and gets to hire another coach okay and that's why they feel comfortable taking responsibility for all the losing because there there's nothing that's going to happen to those who own they just they're going to they're going to keep recycling coach after coach or quarterback after quarterback at some point until they get until they get question don't Joe Joe so let me get this right Jimmy has them stood before the press today and said eight wins over the last two seasons is unacceptable it's unacceptable for the guy that hired that coach um last I check I mean you didn't get him off a

a hiring app I mean, maybe it was ZipRecruiter. You know, you get these people, copy all the emails and all these different you know, advertising, hiring agencies. I heard you're looking for work. Where do you hear that from?

I mean, you know, you know what the issue is, huh? All these coaches that's getting fired, when coaches get fired in general, I mean, it all come down to one common denominator. What's that? You don't have the goddamn players you need, to have success because Sean McVeigh ain't going nowhere. Bill Belichick lasted 20 years.

Look at all the coaches that have had long, sustaining careers. They've always been able to compete. Stan Cronkey, Sean McVeigh says, look, I understand you took this guy number one, but I can't win with him. I've gone as far as I can go with him. We need to do something. Now, you tell me,

what other coach is going to have an input that says, you know what, we're going to trade our number one pick. Give up first rounders. We need Matt Stafford. how many owners gonna do that oh joe well not not exactly but obviously when you wait hold on this this is the thing on when you have someone like mass stabbard available you're willing to pull the trigger because you know what you're getting you take mass stafford out of god damn detroit right and you put them on a team that is already ready yeah i'm not comparing it to tom brady's situation

to him leaving the patrons are going to god damn tamper bay but god damn uncle is damn so close yes is damn so close Because once he got the goddamn LA, what the fuck happened? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But the difference between Tampa Bay and Stafford, Tampa Bay got him for free. It's like you, hey, it's like you drop. Man, remember?

John Elway said, Peyton Manning called him. I told the other teams, I'm not coming there. I'm coming to you. Okay, I guess we got Peyton. Tom Brady said, hey, I'm coming. A, Todd Light, I'm coming to Tampa. Oh, hey, Super Bowl Ready, they was already built. They was already polished.

You trade the number one overall pick and give up two first rounders. A lot of people like, what if you start thinking, what if this doesn't work? We got to give up our first rounder next year and we got to give up other cars. I don't know about that. And we got to pay it. Yeah. What's up? It's Cam Jordan.

I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast. The Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. It's happening every Wednesday. to hear conversations with my friends and stars from the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment about anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season,

the season of more on The Off the Edge with Cam Joined podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage. Store more and do more with your data. Try them for free at wasabi.com. Greatness doesn't just show up. It's built.

One shot, one choice, one moment at a time. From NBA champion, Stefan Curry, comes Shot Ready, a powerful never-before-seen look at the mindset that changed the game. I fell in love with the grind. You have to find joy in the work you do when no one else is around. Success is not an accident. I'm passing the ball to you. Let's go.

Steph Curry redefined basketball. Now he's rewriting what it means to succeed. Shot Ready isn't true. just a memoir. It's a playbook for anyone chasing their potential. Discover stories, strategies, and over 100 never-before-seen photos. Order shot ready. Now at stephen-currie book.com. Don't miss Stefan Curry's New York Times bestseller, shot ready, available now. Abe, Uncle, Joe, the pieces was already in place. Yes. The piece was already in place once he got to L.A. When goddamn Tom with the Tampa, all they needed, they was missing that

in a piece. They, but and guess what they did. They allowed him to have some safe. He went, he walked, hey, gronk, come on. Antonio Brown. Hit AB, come on.

Yes. And that was ice, that was icing on the cake. So I think the thing. Andrew Barry picked those players. Now, he done a great, I mean, Miles Garrett,

hit it out the part. Out of the part. Got him. Out of the park. I love Jenkins. phenomenal. Love it. I don't know.

Did he pick Baker Mayfield? Was he there for Baker Mayfield or was that the other guy? Did he, who picked, who selected Baker Mayfield? Who's responsible for Denzel Ward, too? Yeah, Denzel and was probably Andrew Barry. Because he came out, he came after, uh, huh? It wasn't, they get Denzel Ward? No, it was in his very, Dr. Baker.

Okay. Oh, I hear the other guy, the baseball guy, got her. Man, Ocho. Yo. The Browns can make it, they can make a big leap next year, man. Yeah. Hey, hey, a solid defense. You get them weapons.

They need by three pieces, Joe. You're talking about office? Yeah. Three, Joe. That's it. If you believe they got a quarter, okay, if you believe their quarterback is on the roster, they need offensive line. That left tackle, did you see that left tackle, Cam Robinson?

I can walk better than him. John Dorsey. to select the baker uh that's that's embarrassing i mean to watch some of these guys that's embarrassing that these guys are starting yeah i watch for uh uh filali oh cho that's been yeah ocho he did he did his head like this here and both guys ran by it i said you must be thank you school patrol and you're going to start some five year olds oh joe how you hold out bow heads and both guys go by you Hey, uh,

Hey, they got that boy back there running for his life, man. Lamar, like, oh, yeah, I'm protected on this here. They ain't bringing it before we got five protectors. I'm good. Lamar said, damn. Were you in the hole? How did you get back here this fast? That happened.

That happened a few times. You look at what they did this year. They had a Mason Graham. He started to come on. Swessinger, is that his name? he looked like he's going to be defensive rookie of the year. Judkins solid, really good.

Hal Fanon, he got pro-bow potential. Dylan Gabriel, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Samson, I like Judkins. Better than I like Samson.

And then Shadour, all I know is that he win. You can say what you're going to the defense scored two touchdowns. Those two touchdowns, if he doesn't get them down there and field goal range, do they win the game? That was a critical drive right there, too. But see, only proceed.

Should do or does something, get them in field goal range? He ain't do nothing. Anybody else? Didn't he settle the running field goal? Yeah. I mean, you know how that go. The goalposts move depending on who you're talking about and who it is. But that's okay.

That's okay. That's okay. Deshaun has to come back, Joe. He's on the book for about 50 million, guaranteed. So he has to come back for another year. Ain't nobody. I mean, you could cut him, but nobody, you're not going to be able to trade him.

So you're going to get him a fair shot? You stuck with him for at least one more year. This is the worst trade in NFL history. It is what it is. It is the worst trade because of the compensation that you gave up and the money that you paid him. He was the first to have it fully guarantee. And the problem is, Joe, what made Cleveland?

It looks worse than what it was. He had not even started on the new contract, the extension that he signed. They gave him money on top of that. Ocho, he was about to start, and they say, no, guess what? We're going to even give you more. And to make it worse, we're going to put it to make it better for you, worse for them. They fully guaranteed it. 230 million fully guaranteed.

Yeah. They'd expect this, though, okay, Ocho. No, they absolutely not. Absolutely not. That's why they did it. That boy was a fool in Houston. You hear me. Hey, Joe, he was a fool in Houston, and he didn't have no superstars, Joe.

He had, remember he had D.Hop for a minute. Yeah, yeah, I think he had D.Hop for one year before D.Hop went to Arizona, if I'm not mistaken. One year. And the year when D. He was still went crazy, Joe. Yeah. Yeah. They still went crazy.

So they understood what they were getting. And because you understand that a premium passer like that, at that age, that was able to do that without premier talent around him. Oh, man, we got the hat is. Because we haven't had anything like that in so long since Otto Graham. But Uncle, Joe, he ain't played him. It's been a minute. Well, he got hurt.

Remember, Joe, he got suspended. He missed the first 11 games. Think about it now. The previous year, he didn't play. I don't care how talent you are. He missed a whole year and then basically he missed two years because he missed the first 11th. seven games, Ocho.

Then he comes back, plays five games, he doesn't look good, but you say, you know what, we get him in OTAs, we get him in off-season condition, we get him in our system,

we'll be better. He gets hurt. He missed the rest all that season. He comes back. Guess what? He gets hurt. Missed all that. So for the most part,

he might have played 15, 16, 17 games in about four years. Right. Yeah. he hadn't had the opportunity to get back to himself if he wanted to no so i mean maybe maybe this is this year joe you know maybe this is his year he's he's had he has he's at ample time to get himself back healthy to get back to the to some form of what he used to be and and maybe if if they do their due diligence in bringing talent around talent two pieces if he's

going to be your starting quarterback because you you got 50 million on the books on him and you had no choice but the ride with him you know what to do when you start well oh you know what you can you can cut him you i mean you can release him but you still owe him 50 million guaranteed oh joe so you know they're not going to do that you know they're not going to do that i don't know i don't know i i don't know i i honestly i don't know either i don't it's uh it's a very tough situation we keep saying pieces. I don't give a damn what kind of pieces you get.

This ain't no puzzle. It ain't really that hard. If you don't get that foundational piece, which is the quarterback, you cannot build a team that's quality enough to get to where you want to go. It used to be you could, Ocho. I bring my running game,

I bring my defense because defense travels, a run game travels. They change the rules. Your quarterback needs to travel. And he needs to be able to make plays under the rest. That's the way it's set up now. Go back and look at the quarterbacks that's been winning the Super Bowls.

Yeah, they got great peace around them, but that guys had to make plays. And right now, Cleveland doesn't have that. And they haven't had it in a long time. Look, it seems to me, at least at worst case, you could say, you know, maybe you could have said that, hey, look, we like what we saw from Sanders but they're non-committal they say we don't know if it's internal external which means hey

we don't know if the guy that's going to lead us is on the roster or we're going to have to bring him in right they're keeping everybody on their toes over there they definitely ain't going to get no answer right now anyway god damn it hey hey I'm like you on if they don't do

nothing about that line the office line I don't get down who they get back to throw their ball they ain't going to make a difference well they better get Noel Liles back there to play quarterback so he can take off running because they can't catch him but other than that it ain't going to work

they need offensive line they need offensive line they need some receivers I like I Zelle Bond but they need a number one they got to go get a receiver I like fanning I'm not saying you've got to try to find another fanning but if you can have two solid tight ends

that can do some damage but I think offensively, you're good. Hey, I'll try to find another piece to go opposite of, uh, maybe you go out and get another corner. The pair of, uh, opposite of a Denzel. War. I like Delpit.

Obviously, Miles Garrett is your, is your linchpin, your centerpiece. And he's going to make everybody, Devin Bush played really well for him this year. Yeah. But they, it's, Cleveland's just, uh. What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast.

the Off the Edge with Cam Joorn podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment about anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more, on the Off the Edge with Cam Joyn Podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Shot Ready isn't just a memoir. It's a playbook for anyone chasing their potential. Discover stories, strategies, and over 100 never-before-seen photos. Order Shot Ready. Now at Stefan Curry Book.com. Don't miss Stephen Curry's New York Times bestseller, Shot Ready, available now. The Raiders have fired their head coach Pete Carroll after just one season. Carol said the Raiders would win a bunch of games in his first season,

Stair, the Raiders finished 3 and 14. Had to check, but they got that number one pick. The Raiders were at the bottom of almost every category, offensively and defense. The unit finished 31st in Preciousous rate, 27th and sack, despite Max Crosby having 10 this season. The Raiders are also looking to hire a financial advisor. That's what you should.

Ocho, think about all the coaches. Antonio Pierce, 8 million. Josh McDaniel, 10 million. John Gruden, 10 million. Pete Carroll, $16 million. Chip Kelly, $6 million. And you got to bring another head coach in and his style.

You got to pay them. Yeah, but listen, if they need to hire, if they need to hire a Joe, if they need to hire a financial advisor, I'm right where they need to come. I'm right. I'm exactly who they need to call. They already need to.

Hey, listen, if there's anything, I can get them out of that. Don't worry about that. I can get them out of that. If it's anybody that knows and that's financially conscious and very savvy when it comes, to spending and making sure

it's me. It's too late, Ocho. It's me. Well, listen, it might be too late, but I will make sure they won't make any more goddamn mistakes in overspending from this point on. Now, bring me in the building. Well, here's the thing. When you fire a coach,

you ain't got no choice. You're on the hook for his money. Well, listen, we're going to be a lot more cautious on who we hire and making sure we allow that contract. You could have hired Bill Park. You could have hired the Bill Belich. Your quarterback situation, you're going to be right here. Oh, yeah.

You're right. Hey, so if you're the Raiders, though, do you get one of these kids coming out to draft or do you go to? Because I don't believe, I don't, oh, Joe, at some point in time, you got to stop trying to get stuff. You got to stop trying to, like we used to call it secondhand. You know, Joe, you don't have talked about second hand. Ben it was a long time before I had a new car by something by itself.

There's somebody hadn't got in there and passed gas in it. I want to be the first one of the past gas. this cop. So, Ocho, you know, you get secondhand stuff. I think that need to move on from that second hand

and get a quarterback of their own. And where he going to come from? Look, the kid from Indiana or the kid from the Oregon, they're coming out. It's too much money, not to. That ain't going to get it is, Ojo.

No. You put them, you put them young bulls in that environment. Have you seen Oregon's team? Have you seen Indiana? Yes, I have. And what you think going to happen to either one of them if they go to the Raiders?

What is going to, what they're going to look like? You already know. Well, look, they're long ways away. They need offensive line. They need defensive players. Look, you got to trade Max Crosby. He's the only thing, that's the only thing of value that you have

that can bring you back draft compensation to help you build up. That's the only thing about you got. That's the only thing that you can trade. So you're going to have to trade him and get a first and a third and the second next year. Right. And you got a first this year,

but also you got a hit. You got a hit. And that's the hard. It is. Yeah. It's making sure it's like going to the goddamn casino, I'm playing a roulette. You know?

Roulette. You never know. Yeah, it's the same thing though Yeah, I get you Yeah, you spend the ball You spend the wheel Yeah, with the black and the red I get it, yeah

And the numbers, yeah What it's called? Roulette. Man, come on man, why y'all always correct me, man. Yeah, look, you got Brock Bowers He's one of your top tight ends in the league So you got a pass catching tight end

You need a receiver You went into the draft, You got a back last year, you need somebody to block for the back You need somebody to block for your quarterback. you got you got uh christie that he can he can you're not trading you're not trading brock bowers

the reason why i didn't mention him because you're not trading him no no not a chance that's your staple piece on offense you can trade and get that can help you build this thing back up because that's really the only thing that you have a valuable that value that you're willing to move you got to start with that foundational piece at the end of the day yeah yeah I mean if you got a house what you go get what's the first thing you go buy

what what can't you live without shoot I'm hoping you say furnish your aunt I will give you I give you $500 and you got to get one piece damn in the house TV man that's accessory hey not when you got a phone

I can do that I can watch all that stuff on my phone I mean okay okay then that's a good one huh because the first thing I'm thinking about by getting the house I need some furniture I got to have some with a lay lay my head and a TV I'm trying to think what else I can speak for a big spears

I bought a house It was over budget Joe You know what I'm saying My people told me Say Shannon You can spend 425,000 I said I got you 425

Ooh I get me a big old high For 425 First house the lady showed me With 625 I said Why you're showing me this house You know I can't afford this

Let's go somewhere But I said Before we go somewhere Let me look around You know what I said I said I said Joe or Joe

I said before we go since we're here now I might as well look around I put my hands in the locket I walk in there Yeah that's the game They play on Oh man Big old shit

I ain't never see no walk in shower Yeah Yeah yeah I mean Our towels were the same place My jeans were You know I can go get a pair of jeans They didn't get a towel

So you know what I'm saying I ain't never seen no linen closet linen closet So I walked down, she opened the door, I go down, I said, there's a basement. I said, what is that? At the time, I ain't know what it was. I said, what is this called? She said, it's a basement and it's finished.

I said, huh? Yeah. I walk it down there, carpeted. Three thousand square foot. Ooh. I said, damn. I could just imagine what I could be doing in here. Yeah.

A lot of trampoline acts. You know what I'm saying? Oh, Joe, trampoline, your boy, your boy was 24, 25, now. I figured trampoline. I said, okay, I said, okay, this is a little bit out of my budget. Let me see the other houses. You know what I said, Joe? Oh, Joe.

I said, let me see the other houses. Hey, that 425 ain't going to hit nothing like that, man. She said, well, okay, Mr. Sharp, this is like, this is like 435 to 450. She saw, she, I saw those houses. I walked in, the hammer hand, the pocket, just like this right here. I don't want this. I go to the other with your own show. Same thing, hands in my pocket.

I look around. I said, let's go back and look at the other house. One more time, let's look at the other one time. That first one you showed me. She said, are you sure, Mr. Shark? Because they told me the budget. Yeah, yeah. I go back there, I started thinking.

thinking. I said, I'm right here in the heart of Buckhead. Man. I'm right there. I can walk the Fieldspladder so I can walk to Lennox Mall. Yes. I can walk to the movie theaters that's in Fields Plathic. Because back then, Joe, I don't know if you remember. Oh, when you got there, they used to have a movie theater in Lennox Mall. Yeah. Oh, until old boy got shot. A dude got shot there. But it was, you didn't want to go to. I'll tell you about that later, Joe. But anyway, yeah. I said, whew, I was thinking about that. I remember she dropped me back

at a time she dropped me back at the hotel. Yeah. She said, what you think, Mr. Sharp?

I said, I think I'm about to be over budget. I said, I think I'm about to be over budget. They got me. They got me.

You know who I bought to high from you? Who? Sugar Ray Leonard's ex-wife, Juanita. I did you well they got you hey they got you just how they got me

how they got you Joe oh Joe I'm out here supposed to be looking for me a nice little townhouse I just come from Phoenix yes I'm walking out here to Atlanta okay uh man you know Sharif Abdulraham he just built this house out here

in Sandy Springs yes he's been living in the six months I say oh we can go by there and take it out Hey, we come by here, Ocho, I'm still in the house of this day. We come up here, Ocho, we come by here, we come by here, they got this chef in there, he got everything whipped up. Right.

Man, I'm supposed to be looking at a townhouse. This is $14,000 square feet. I'm like, oh, look, you ain't fit to take me going to look at no townhouse. That's all this. I don't know why you. Right. Ocho, why not start with the 420. five's first.

Right. Why you start with this? It's like I'm about to go today. Hold on. Time out, time out, time out, time out. Let's slow down a little bit. Cause Joe just threw it out there. Like I, like we, me and the chat and hear him just say,

$14,000 square feet. I'm just keeping it $100,000. 14,000 square feet. Boy, boy, you in Buckingham Palace, what? Ocho, Ocho, oh, Joe. Oh, listen. Look, boy, I had to have a long talk with my mama about this hill. I was a easy.

I ain't, shh. Townhouse. I ain't going to go to no townhouse after C. No. Hey, Joe, I got to come out there and holl at you, boy. Man, you got, come see me. Come see me, man. Hey, you, like you say, your property,

that's a property, there ain't no house. Hey, Ocho. Hell, damn. I've been blessed, Ojo. It ain't just the house. I got three kids. All over the age of three. Ooh.

I was like, man, how am I going to make this work? I was like, ooh. I said, man, boy, Ocho, I, I said, I swear for God and two white men. I was eating ketchup with a knit needle. Bad look here. Man, I ain't never had so much tuna, oatmeal, and eggs in my life. Man, I went to Sam's.

I was buying like seven, eight dozen, like 20 dozen eggs at a time. I was getting cake. I was getting pallets of tuna. That's all I could eat. I got to pay for the house. I got to pay child before. That's all I can. Hey, hey, listen.

You got to make you got a shot. You wanted you wanted that house? Had to sacrifice. Listen, I understand your pain. I've been there before. Maybe not, maybe not to that extent. But listen, we've all had the sacrifice something for something else that we like and we love.

We appreciate at that time. Knowing it's out of our budget. Hey. Knowing good and well because we know it's coming. Ain't had no tape. You know it's coming. Ain't had no tape nothing either. I didn't.

I had a couch and I had to be. And I had a bed. That's all I had for. Hey. Hey, oh, hey, look. Hey,

hey, that shit, hey, you working hard as I don't know what those. I had a king's bed. I had a king's out bed. I had a king's out of bed. Uh,

what's that, uh, you remember the furniture store huffs, Joe? Right there on ladies row by that church. It used to be a glass. It was a big glass builder right there. Uh,

uh, but the furniture, that's what it all, all the high-end black entertainers and limb, they used to go get their furniture from there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you probably spent the grip on you. Why I do that?

But you know, I had to get me back. I had to go. Oh, oh, Joe, oh, Joe. Oh, Joe. I had a bed now. But you know, my band was black lacquer. Black lacquer. Oh, and it light up. Like, like an infinity, like, infinity.

And like, hold on, you had LED lights? Yeah, yeah, well, before it was cool. Before it was it. before it was in style. Right. And let me tell you what I did. Let me tell you what I had, Ocho. I was flurred a little bit.

I went all in. I was, like I said, I was even catch up with a knit needle. Come on. Take your time. And I had me a leather comforter, custom made for the bed. Oh, boy, you could have.

Leather? Think of what? Leather. Leather, comforter, custom for the bed. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You could. Then I did a card signing.

You know, I did a car. If you know back then you saw a kind of signed cards, uh-uh. They gave your boy a little money. I signed like $2,000, got me about $12.5. Okay. Bought me some satin sheets. Satin. Hey, how about this here?

Man, you know, I see them in the movies. How they run jump in the bed. How I go jump in the bed and sign my ass all which costs the floor to the other side. On the floor I win. I said, oh. man this stuff look good this ain't functional hey hey hold up but why are you talking oh cho y'all still don't do a car signers oh yeah i do i do i do every every blue moon joe because back then you know my brother would take me like they want my brother he had just in the beginning they wanted

my brother because he had you know won the triple crown he was a all pro first you know a hundred catch season back to back hundred catch season so they wanted him and the only way he would go do the signing, they had to take me. So they thought you more $2,500, $5,000. Right, right, right, right. I got a cram. I mean, one time I signed 10,000 cards.

Damn. And one thing, they gave you three months. Yeah. Oh, to get through it. Okay, okay. But I was going to, I had a couch, I had no TV. But I had a bed. The bed was nice.

I've been saying the bed was nice. The bed was nice. Yeah, hey, I'm still doing car signers. It is Dave, boy, the way they're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I still sign a lot, boy. Bad, I say, but, hey, I look back. I look back.

I think by some time now, I'll just be laying down. I was like, damn. This thing could have went sideways in a hurry. Oh, yeah. I ain't have no choice. You said, oh, you were shooting up. Yeah, I was shooting up. But I got three, I got to get on that.

I got three kids, they're in daycare and I got, I still got to take care of granted. I still got to take care of living, mom every once in a while plus the kid. That's my number one responsibility. So if I got to do without, I'm cool. People's like, man, I can train myself. I'll go a couple of days without eating. Hey, and be killing you.

Right. Yeah, be killing you, you're so hungry. But I say, nah, I got, I got to put myself. of the situation, because if I ever have to not be able to eat, I'm gonna be good with you. Yeah. But, hey, it's a lot of people ain't, they ain't gonna be to understand what you're saying, bro.

No, no, no, no, Joe. It's a lot of us, it's a lot of us who have been there and done that. Hey, Joe, the funny thing about it is, is the people, the people aren't gonna understand because they vote, they've only seen the finish shot up. They've only seen the finish part. They only seen you on Sundays.

They don't understand the walk you took and the path you took to get to where you are. They don't understand the side. sacrifices that came along that goddamn journey before you got to what you see on Sundays. They'll never get it on. They'll never get it.

When I coined the phrase to me, I wore summer clothes. I told them, when I went to college, I said, man, I wore summer clothes. Man, look at me. What you mean summer clothes? Some of my brothers, some of my uncles, some of my cousins. Hey, they just passed that bang on down. Oh, yeah. Hey, I'm like,

they stopped making way this last year I got the way man listen when it got too small for me that's the jeans they cut up and you know back there you know you're on your knees you put holes in your knees

in jeans my grandma had gotten too small for me man all that stitching come on granny this when you was in college I was in the coming up

in school. I was coming out. Yeah. But no, without the college, you know, look, I went to college

I had matching luggage. I had two pigly wiggly bags with everything I own inside of them. I had matching luggage, oh, Joe, piggyly wiggly. No,

it might have been Winnex at the time. They changed the name to pickly, but I had two brown bags. You don't believe that asked past before. I went to college,

class of 86. That's what we call ourselves, 86. Asked them how I showed up. Two Wind Dixiexie brown grocery bag. I had everything I own in those bags. Hey, I believe, boy,

I ain't have much in that when I went to college neither. I ain't going to lie to you. I used to wear the crap out of them Arkansas Razor Bag sweats. Ocho, we ain't held no to that. I'm talking about all kind of stuff on them sweats. Hey, like it was design, uh-huh. Man, what you're talking about? And you remember, uh, like in the dorm,

you had, like, we had one washing, We had two washers, two dryers. Now, think about it. You got long, you might got 70 guys, two washes, two drives. So guess what happened? Guess what happened? If your stuff, your stuff, you're not there to see it. It's going to be on the top.

It's somebody else stuff in there. And you just hope your best eyes on shirt and your best stuff, you see somebody with coming on for you. They don't take it. that's me hey hey hey you already know though when you down there washing them clothes in college you got to stay out of there with you oh yeah you can't put the stard them clothes and talking about you going to go to your wall okay okay okay okay that was the best thing on show when I got a girlfriend I got a girlfriend my junior year yeah yeah

yeah you thought hey she take care everything wash it folded up hey because you know I'm just washing out hey I'm dumping everything in there to Throwing powder in there? Yep. Hey. Hey, you ain't say, you ain't separating none. You washing white and blacks and colors. I'm watching everything I didn't have is bleach.

I just knew you couldn't put bleach in color. But everything else, hey, tied. That's the only, that's the only, that's the only thing we always use. We only use tied. We have no fabric softener. We have nothing. Static. And that powder.

Socks stuck me. I have my four pair of socks stuck to my jeans. Chat, y'all know what I'm talking about. I ain't the only one. Hey, I remember those days, what, hey. Hey, that's throwback. That's throwback. Oh, Joe, is it rare to see Pete Carroll?

Because the one thing we know about Pete Carroll, he can rebuild. Look at what he did at USC. Look at what he did at Seattle. Are you surprised that they didn't give him more time to try to get this thing turned around than one year? No, absolutely not. I'm not surprised at all.

Obviously, because where they were ranked offensively and defensively, I'm not sure if the players were responding to Pete Carroll. Obviously, I think they want to go a little bit younger. When it comes to the coaching staff that they want to bring in, they want to go in a completely different direction, obviously. I love Pete. I love what Pete has been able to do at the NFL level, at the collegiate level. But it's obvious that Tom and others that are making those calls in that building

want to go much younger to another coach where the players a little bit more receptive to what they have to say. But think about what he had in Seattle. They get Russ. They get Sherm. They get B. Wags. They get Cliff Averill. They get Earl Thomas.

They got Cam. Look at what they're doing now. They trade for beast mode. They draft those receivers. Curse and Baldwin. You see? Look at what they got. Yeah.

Now you got Russ. Now you got a nucleus. What a nucleus is in Oakland? them in Vegas. It ain't Mack and Crosby. Brock Bowles even though it's early. And with that

it wasn't until they got the quarterback with Russ. Yeah. They were able, in part with that Legion of Boone. They get Michael Bennett, you know, they get Michael Bennett and they get you know, Malcolm Smith and they get a couple of these other guys and

whoo, yeah, voila. Yeah. That's a That took time now. Team, they give you no time now, Ocho. Ocho, Ocho, Zach Taylor, apparently will pass on listening to Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase, their desire to make change

in the Biggles' organization. Taylor stood on business today stating that he does not plan on making any changes to the coaching staff. He compiled a 52, 63, and one record over the last seven season and led the Bengals to the Super Bowl in 2021. The Bengals defense was one of the,

the worst in the NFL ranking 30th and points allowed 31st in total yard surrendered even with those dismal stats taylor plans to bring back defensive coordinator al golden for a second season in the role oh cho are you surprised with how bad the defense no i'm not i'm not that he's not willing to make any changes um absolutely not um because listen they said loo Lou On Romo was a problem The year before last Lou and Romo went to the goddamn Colts and they had a good defense

Because you know why they had a good defense in Indy Because they had the players You'd be able to execute the scheme And the taxes that Louaneruma wanted to run Listen, Al Golden The Disciples Jesus of Nazareth God, it wouldn't matter who was coaching

That goddamn defense Joe They wasn't going to be able to perform In this off season This off season for the Bengals The only focus for us needs to be in the draft and off-season acquisitions needs to be defensive help. It needs to be defensive help.

Honestly, I've said it's playing around. Plan around obviously saying stuff. I would love Jeffrey Simmons. I'm not sure that's possible. Would Tennessee be willing to let him go? No. Will Mike Brown pay him? Absolutely.

Based on what we just saw last year and what we saw the previous year, yes, they will do it. He will do it. Another thing, we need to. three pieces. We need some at all three levels. We need some on the front level and on the back end.

I love DJ Turner. I love DJ Turner. I love what he's turned out to be. He's going to get paid this off season. At the second level, Dmitia is night. He needs to have that goddamn C on his checks next year. Young Bull is nice. That's 44. I know. So I've got a lot of game car.

Hey, hey, Joe, when you turn on the tape, that young bull all over the place, boy. He got a he got a motor on him, Joe. Hey, he, he's going to be nice. He's going to be something. So we need three pieces, Joe. We need three.

Get something on that third level. We get somebody like Jeffrey Simmons to help stop that run and hoping Shamar Stewart in his second year gets much better as opposed to what we saw this year from him to go early in the draft and live up to that high round expectation. I think we're going to be all right. Y'all going to have to get that out the draft, ain't you, Ocho? Y'all got too much money tied up in that offense.

Hey, Joe, you ain't never lied. Listen, I'm picking up what you're putting down, Joe, but we got to do something. Well, you got to, y'all got to redo what you call them contract because, uh, uh, who? T was basically a one-year deal. Yeah. T was basically a one-year deal, little, Joe. Yeah. But you need some offensive line with two.

At some point in time, y'all got to stop getting Joe hit. Yeah. Because that's not your offense. Y'all sped things up on Sunday just to try to keep miles from getting that. y'all pushed the ball down the field. Y'all really didn't push the ball down the field but one time, Ocho. Because y'all was trying to get the ball out of his hands

because you didn't walk by and try to get to your quarterback. In matter of fact, it's so funny, what did I say, how did I say the game was going to look? Yeah, you said it. The night before the game. I said it was going to be quick game, misdirection, and getting the ball out of his hands real fast, and I'd be damn.

That's exactly what they did all goddamn game long. Yeah. But that's not your honest. offense, though? No. Your offense is Ocho is to push the ball down the field. Yeah, you get, look, we want to push the ball down, push the, put the ball in Chase's hand.

But Chase catch a lot of deep balls. T, catch a lot of deep balls. Deep balls, yeah, they do. So to get outside of what you schematically normally would do, and that's why I hate, look, if I want to, Ocho, I can neutralize anybody. If I'm willing to jump, if I'm willing to junk my offense or defense,

just to keep one player at bay. But at what expense? At what expense? Joe Burrow is a push the ball down the field. You got receivers that can get down the field. Yeah, you can get the ball in their hands. And occasionally, yeah, they'll do that. They'll get the ball in T's hand.

They'll get the ball more so Chase because I think Chase is a little better run after the catch than T is. T is a much bigger receiver. Go over the top. He'll high point the ball. Tremendous hand, great hand, eye coordination. but Sunday you guys like

no man we're going to do everything we possibly can to try to neutralize mile so that means a lot of quick stuff a lot of hitching a lot of smoke stuff hey a lot of shallows hey hey get the ball up the reason why I'm not surprised the one thing I know about

the Brown family they ain't spending no excess money I've been damn if you're going to get money they get their money and you're not working for them that ain't how they do business oh Joe you know them I've been around the league and heard people talk.

He ain't buying no coach. How many more years did Zach Taylor got on his contract? That'll tell you, how many more years he's going to be coached in the Cincinnati? He's going to be right there. Yeah, absolutely right.

Absolutely right. Because, hey, that one and done stuff that you see other coaches that other owners do, Mike Brown ain't doing that. They ain't having that. Oh, hell.

No, he's not. You think he even fired somebody? He still got to, and they're not actually in the building and work for me? Absolutely not. It ain't happening. So, Zach Taylor stays.

We'll come back to the NBA. Excuse me. We'll come back to football a bit, but NBA news. First, Ocho, have the floor for some spoken words. It's yours, Ocho. Oh, man. Hey, uh, chat.

Uh-oh. Hey, Joe. This is deep, man. Okay. Take your time, though. oh man man got the hell what this boy oh man go here what hey uh a chat i know uh unks ravens didn't make the playoffs there have been some some rude things that have been said to the kicker tyler loop

and knowing that i do spoken word i thought i'd come up with something for him to encourage him to go forward and to be better because that moment in which he missed that kick that opportunity will present itself again so let me know y'all ready we're ready you ready joe all right yeah i'm ready i'm ready yeah this is called the kick kick The kick. They call it one kick. But Tyler Loop felt a lifetime in that moment. The whistle was sharp.

The stadium was loud. A season on your foot. 44 yards, wide right. And the world writes a story with no room for the hours you spent perfecting your craft they'll remember the miss not the miles walked not the pressure on your back not the heart it took to step there but listen you showed up you lined it up you believed and that's something no miss can take that is the spoken word by mr yeah Pachacho

Yeah Yeah Okay Thank you Thank you Okay Why are you laughing? Hey I'm digging the hat though

The head I'm messing with the hat I appreciate that Joe I appreciate that I appreciate that Joe It took time for me to write that man yeah I listened

I damn this spent all day Joe they say Ocho started poetic injustice ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

boy that's for you, Tyler that was for you my boy Lou Lou You don't say that man, poetic injustice. Oh, that bird. Hey, come on, man.

Hey, listen, that was a serious moment, man. Y'all laughing at me, man. Nah, hey, this is a safe space. This is a safe space, Ocho. Yeah, yeah, I feel you see. Every time I be vulnerable, y'all get the laugh. No, no. Hey, just, hey, like you don't say, we're laughing.

We judge ye not. At least you be judged. Right, right, whatever that means. Hey, we ain't laughing at you. We're laughing witches. We're laughing witches. Man, you got my friends. That's messed up, man.

Oh, Lord, have mercy. Hey, hold on. Hey, y'all, yeah, that's messed up, man. Hey, I got a joke. I got a joke. Okay, come on. Come on. Joe, you ready, Joe?

Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. Come on. Hey, chat. What do you call fake spaghetti? Fake spaghetti. Fake spaghetti.

I'll be feeling like I'll be knowing them, but they'd be outfield left someone. This dude, this dude because fake spaghetti, hold on, Ocho, fake spaghetti. No, I ain't got nothing. What's you got, Ocho? Fake spaghetti is called an imposter. Oh, Lord, how much is bad here? Man. I just do him, bro.

Hey. What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast. The Off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment. About anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture.

And I'll take you inside my journey. through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season, the season of more, on The Off the Edge with Cam Joined podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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I'm Ashley Rayfeld, the host of the podcast. Good luck with that. Good luck with that is a skateboarding podcast about the past, present, and future of women and gender expansive skateboarding. In our show, we'll talk with skaters like Bobby Delphino on pushing style, culture, and the conversation forward. You break down the door,

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