Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: Browns shock Steelers, Garrett calls out Watt, Cowboys disrespectful

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to Jameis Winston and the Cleveland Browns shocking Russell Wilson and the Pittsburgh Steelers on Thursday Night football for their first win since Week 8. Later, Unc and Ocho dive into Myles Garrett calling for T.J. Watt to apologize for DPOY snub, GO IN on the Dallas Cowboys for being disrespectful and disgraceful after CeeDee Lamb and Trevon Diggs were seen shooting a music video in the club after getting blown out on Monday Night Football.04:00 - Show start04:35 - Intro05:49 - Browns v Steelers16:41 - Miles Garrett v TJ Watt26:00 - Daniel Jones seems to say goodbye to the Giants35:30 - Cowboys: CeeDee and Trayvon film music video after loss43:55 - Micah apologizes for Mike McCarthy comment51:25 - Jerry Jones…head coach replacements54:50 - Jets fire GM Joe Douglas1:02:00 - Davonte Adams(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the getting in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. All 30 teams split into six

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Pro Bowl of the All-Pro. That's Chad Ocho Cinco Johnson. Thank you again for joining us as you watch the Cleveland Browns take down the Pittsburgh Steelers at home 24 to 19. Yes, you heard that right. The Browns have now beaten the Steelers and the Ravens this season. 24 to 19, Jamies Winston played extremely, extremely well.

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I mentioned it earlier the Browns stunned the Bills in the snow 24-19 they gave up a 19 point lead in the fourth quarter excuse me the Steelers the Browns take down the Steelers 24 to 19. Jamis Winston they gave up a 12-point lead but Jamis Winston led off a game winning drive capped off by two yard touchdown by Nick Chubb as the Browns win their first game since week eight Nick Chubb rushed for 59 yards and two touchdown Jerry Judy had an outstanding game in the snow on six targets 85 yards as Cleveland improves to three and eight and the Steelers fall to eight and three. The Ravens y'all better send the Browns, even though they beat y'all, they kept y'all attached to the Steelers because now maybe that game when you guys play in

a couple of weeks will actually mean something for the division. But Ocho, the Browns really not having a whole lot to play for, but they played their tails off and they take down the Steelers who had an outstanding game last week as they took down the Ravens On field what 18 to 16? I think with the final score and now they give up 24 points to the Browns on the road at home Steelers are on the road browser at home and they lose 24 19. Oh, chill. What'd you like about what you saw this game from the Browns? I mean, listen, from the Browns, I like that I saw James Swinson be able to play with some consistency for one.

I want to, I'm going to shoot. I want to shout out to my dog, Jerry Judy, but I appreciate you, but you look, you look good tonight. You look very, very good tonight. Um, to be honest with you, the first three quarters of this game, it was a snooze fest, it was a snooze fest. It was a snoozefest. The goddamn Browns were 0-6 going into the goddamn fourth quarter on third down. It was boring.

I think if it wasn't for the weather conditions, I think the Steelers would have won the game. But I'm not taking anything away from the Browns. But for some reason, there have been multiple games this year, there have been multiple games this year where the first three quarters of the game is extremely boring and it's not watchable. It's almost a snooze fest. And to be honest with you, there was a point in the game tonight where I even fell asleep.

My eyes closed for a little bit. That's how boring the game was. For some reason, and I know the exact time, when it got to the fourth quarter and about seven minutes and 35 seconds on the clock, all of a sudden the goddamn game is like the shootout scene from the movie Heat. It is like the shootout scene from the movie Heat. It was like the shootout scene from the movie Heat. I'm like what the hell is going on?

The game got very exciting. Boom, the Browns are winning. All of a sudden Russell Wilson, Pickens has a big catch. They go down there and score and then the goddamn Browns turn around, go down and do the exact same thing and it comes down to the wire and obviously Russ on the hill, Mary passed, they couldn't complete it. And I mean it was- He took a shot too, Hicks. Yeah.

Was that Hicks, I think that was Hicks that hit him. Boy, he got that delayed blitz that came. Yeah. Oh yeah. Listen, the funny thing about it is, is despite whatever the team's record are, whatever the team's records are in the AFC North, anytime they play a division game, it for some reason it always goes like this.

It's always close, it always comes down to the last minute. It's rarely, very rarely is it ever a blowout, regardless of how bad the teams are playing or how good the opposing team is playing. I think the thing is, oh Joe, you talk about the game was a snoozefest, but you got to realize this team, both of these teams just played Sunday and you're turning around again and you're playing Thursday. So now you're taking basically two and a half days of rest from them.

You know, hey, unless you a rookie or a second year player, man, your body aching, hell, you don't feel good until Wednesday, Thursday. And you gotta go play a game, not practice, as Allen D'Aversu, not practice. A game. A game. A game. And so look, Miles Garrett took that personal,

what TJ Watts said about he didn't think he deserved, he had three first half sacks. Three sacks. But I thought they did a great job of getting out the rust. They did a great job of pressuring rust. They sacked him four times, three of those by Miles Garrett. He did a great job jumping out the rock. Even a couple of times, they tried to chip it.

And that wasn't enough because a guy that size that can bend the edge is unbelievable. He's unbelievable quick, he's powerful, he can bend, he can bull rush you, he can swim you, he can rip you, wax on, wax off. I mean, he's a pro, if you say, man, I want a defensive end. You want him to look like Miles Garrett

because not only does he look like Tarzan, he plays like Tarzan because we've seen a lot of guys. They'd be built. Hey, they look the part, but they don't play. Herculey play like Jane. So he looks the part. He's a he's every bit what they thought when they took him number one overall He's been defensive player of the year. Obviously TJ watt was also in that draft that 2017 draft

In which he went 30th overall and he has a few more sacks But both guys have been defensive player of the year. Both guys have lived up to what everybody thought they would be I don't think people thought TJ would be that good because they did, they would have took him at 30th, they took his ass a lot sooner. But he's been unbelievable in what he's been able to do. The only guy in NFL history to lead the league in sacks in three different years, there's an outside chance he can do it again, because you know,

he could go on a stretch where he get two or three sacks and he could do that for like three or four games. And the next thing you know, he'd go from like fifth or sixth in sacks all the way to the lead. So he's that good. You know, when I watched the Steelers, I think sometimes, Oh Joe, they play down to their competition. You watch them when they, you watch them when they play against the Ravens.

When you watch them, they play a team that they think can kick their ass, they come ready to play. But you know, you know what I think? I think Arthur Smith, I think Arthur Smith is playing a safe game. He's playing a safe game and not putting Russell Wilson in harm's way, allowing Najee Harris to facilitate the way the offense goes and then Arthur Smith is choosing when to use Russell Wilson to his strengths, you know, taking the ball out of his hands, not really allowing him to put the ball in

harm's way. And I think that's one of the reasons for their success this year with this only being their third loss. It's only their third loss with the gamble that Mike Tomlin took and replacing Russell Wilson with, with um, goddamn Justin Fields. Everything is paid, everything is paid off, is paid dividends up until tonight's game. Yeah. You mean placing Justin Fields. Everything is paid. Everything is paid off his paid dividends up until tonight's game Yeah, you mean placing Justin Fields with Russell Wilson. I'm sorry. What did I say? You said it backwards you say? I know but look I know what you meant You are you meant to say he was Russell Wilson came in in place of Justin Fields. Oh, yeah But it look it's what you think. It's an AFC

It's an AFC, it's an AFC North game. Like you said, these teams have gone at it for a long time. The new Browns, the old Browns are in Baltimore right now and they happen to be known the Ravens. But there's really no love lost between these teams. If you go back and look at their in the eighties with the cardiac kids, with Brian Sykes and Ozzie Newsome, who's that?

Dave Logan. And then you had Kevin Mack and Ernest Beiner. You know, you had some matchups. You had some really great matchups. You had Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield. You had Al Ba- Look, this, I remember the rivalry and it was heated. You would think, kind of started when Turkey Jones slammed Terry Brash on his neck and almost broke his neck. Turkey who? Turkey Jones.

Go back and look it up. Back then you could suplex a player. I mean you can literally pick him up like they do in WWE or World Wrestling Federation. But Turkey Jones almost broke Terry Brash's neck. And it kind of started from that moment on, it became a very intense rivalry. But the Steelers, you know, obviously the Steelers been the king of that division for a long time.

It used to be the AOC Central back then. It wasn't the North and then the Ravens come in. And for the, you know, the Steelers have gone to Super Bowls even though they've lost. The Ravens have gone to what? Three, two Super Bowls. They won, you know, won both of those. The Browns are the Ravens have gone to what three two Super Bowls they want you know won both of those the Browns are the Browns they were one of the only teams

that haven't been I think the Browns the Jags who else they haven't been to a Super Bowl the Lions the Texans oh hey listen there's a good chance the Lions gonna change that oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but uh but look give the gift look I don't want to take anything away from the Browns because I thought they played really well last night. Last night, tonight, they did a great job of getting that for Russell Wilson. For the most part, they didn't give up a whole lot of yards

running the football and look, I can live with 11 carries for 45 yards, 16 carries for 41 yards. But Justin Fields had a longer 30, where he came in and kind of caught him off guard. But for the most part, Ocho, they did a great job of bottling the stealer's offense up. And James was very good with the ball.

He had one that got away, excuse me, one throw that got away from him. But other than that, I thought he did a really good job of orchestrating this offense and moving them up and down the field. They got a, Tillman, I don't, Tillman, come on, bro. Go down the field. They got a Tillman. I don't tell them. Come on, bro.

Go down. Don't try to be no hero. Try to split two defenders. Boom. Hellman right on the ball popped out. Who knows that better? Cause they had gotten the rhythm at that point in time. Oh Joe Cleveland had had a rhythm.

Yeah. And I think they formed a ball like the 20 yard line. So you might've gotten points out of that. You just got to be smart in situations like that, Ocho. Hicks, power slam from pro. Now you know you can't do that. You know you can't drive the quarterback in the ground. Ocho, everybody knows that.

You can barely, you want to put your arms out like this. I ain't got my body weight on them. But if you pick him up. Oh yeah. You get the plan. you get the flag. You got to know that though. You got to know it. Especially with this time and era

and the NFL and the league policy wanting to protect the quarterback as much. I mean, you know you can, but it also makes it difficult for defenders of that size as well. It made it also difficult for big guys to be able to control their momentum, especially when it comes to second and quarterback. When you're trying to get there as fast as well. It also difficult for big guys to be able to control, control their momentum, especially when it comes to second, the quarterback. When you're trying to get there as fast as possible.

But you see what he did on the last bit of grain. He just hit him. He didn't wrap him up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just throw him up. Just throw him up. Oh Joe, why'd you smash the man mouthpiece? So what you think they was going to call you right there, the back judge sitting right there. Oh Joe, you know you can't do that. There's a bad judge and a side judge looking right at you

cause you're the only two the guys out there. So bad judge is standing right there. He looking at you just like this here and watch you smash the man by a piece and throw it on the ground. Come on bro. And sometimes people wonder why teams lose. Sometimes it's not talent.

Sometimes players do dumb things that put them in harm's way. And at the wrong time too. Yes. The wrong time. But kudos, kudos, kudos to the Browns. They win the ball game. They moved to three and eight. 24-19 win over the Steelers who fall to eight and three.

Myles Garrett and TJ White did a little talking this week in February, Garrett took home his first defensive player of the year award, posted nothing I'm used to on social media. Watt posted nothing I'm used to. I'm not used to on social media. Garrett told reporters this week, no, he didn't say nothing to me. He got to apologize to me when I see him.

I've never complained about the trophy not being in my house and vice versa. He shouldn't be feeling two ways about it going to me when I see him. I've never complained about the trophy, not being in my house and vice versa. He shouldn't be feeling two ways about it going to me. So I'm just going to go play the game. I don't play against TJ. He doesn't play against me. I like that. Nice, healthy, nice, nice, nice, healthy verbal quarrel between two elite

players at their position. Um, I mean, he's probably not going to position. I mean he's probably not gonna apologize. I mean that's not gonna happen. I believe I should have won the award. I ain't apologizing for feeling I should have won the award. Yeah I think probably some words might have been exchanged after the game but the one thing I want to I know I know we're talking about Miles Garrett and goddamn TJ Watts but I'm curious I want to hear the quotes after this win in the comments from James Winston. That's what I want to hear.

I want to hear what he said. Oh, listen, ain't no telling what he said. Ain't no telling what he said, especially after a win like this. Right. In those conditions, man, ain't man listen, it's going to be so many quotables, probably going to be rap lyrics, some shit, some shit from Shakespeare. It's going to be something good.

I can't wait to hear it. I think the thing is that look, if you play this game long enough, TJ, you're going to get robbed. You go to something there. Everybody has been robbed. Somebody had didn't get an opportunity to go to the pro bowl that feel that they should have gone to the pro bowl. Somebody felt they should have been an all pro. They didn't get an opportunity to go to the Pro Bowl, that feel that they should have gone to the Pro Bowl. Somebody felt they should have been an all pro.

They didn't get to go. Somebody feels they should have won an MVP, an offensive player of the year, or a defensive player of the year, or a rookie of the year, or something. If you play this game long enough, and you're a good player, and I know TJ was thinking like,

bro, bro, I led the league in sacks by, by why, by ways, look at our defense. We were good, it wasn't like, you know, I understand, I think Cleveland was number one in pass defense. They had a very top defense also. But CJ was like, bro, I led the league in sacks. It wasn't like we were a bottom feeder defense. Like team was just going up and down the field on us.

So hold on, what's that? He felt a couple of years ago, when I think when Aaron Donald won his third, he and his brother had something to say, like the defensive player of the year should have gone to TJ. And I get it, if I'm JJ, I'm gonna ride with my brother too. JJ has three awards, TJ has one.

TJ feels that he should have more of those awards. But unfortunately, bro, you don't get to vote for yourself. But if you play long enough, because there are times that I know I should have been to the pro bowl. There ain't no question of my damn mind. My team won more games. I had more catches, more yards, more touchdowns, and they put somebody else in there. Yeah, it happens. Uh. After the game, Miles Garret had a message to T.J.

What I'm number one, I'm what I'm home. I'm the defensive player of the year. Wait, for real? I'm number one. I'm one. I'm home. I'm the defensive player of the year. Run tail that. I like that. I like that. There's nothing, hey listen, there's nothing wrong with a little healthy... Well, what's the wrong with a little healthy. Well, what's the word I'm looking for? A little healthy competition. Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition.

It's hard, Ocho, because they don't play against each other. It's kind of like you. I mean, you not playing against me. I need you to talk that like a just Trent, or like you going against the DBs. But we haven't seen none like this though No, this is that don't that that don't really see eye to eye on who the better players based on rewards that are given Yeah for the the best I like it. It's different because I have I listen when I played I anything like it

Yeah, me this is healthy. I want to see how how they finish the season off This is great to me. I'm uh, I want to see how how they finish the season off. This is great. This is great to me. I'm I just had a simple rule for our guys. Don't you let no tight end come in here and show me up and water, Romo, Mo, John, John, John, Mo. Don't you let no tight end come in and show me up. Right, right. So because Gates Gates was a I think he was on the practice squad my first year. So I didn't get a chance to play with Gates

my last year. He was on the roster, but I don't think he played much. But you know, we played, you know, we played all these other tight ends. We played who we played. J. Nova check. We played a Brent Jones. We play in Ben Coats. We played our game. Don't you? Hey, Gonzo, don't you let them guys show me up. Right. That's on you. Y'all practice hey, Gonzo, don't y'all let them guys show me up. That's on you. Y'all practice against me all the time.

If y'all be doing all that, holding on to stuff against me, knock pass down against him too. Hey, I don't get y'all that great work now. I don't get y'all that great work during the week. Don't come up here and not that man go for 10, four bucks, 22 touchdowns and lose the game and here I am on the field looking crazy. Cause I remember that when I hit them boys up for 214,

you know Gonzo was on the other sideline, okay? 214? In Kansas City. In his house. Y'all was home all week. I was in his house. Okay. In his house. Y'all was home all week. I was in his house. Okay. In his house.

Had my feet up on his couch. Shoes muddy too. That what I do, I have a huge muddy. I ain't no clean gas. Cause I won't after a couple of days, I'm like, fish, I start to smell, you got to throw my ass up out of there. Yeah, yeah, you know how much you know I've been there.

I'm fine. Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah, you know, I bet you know I've been there. I've been there. Yep, yep. Yeah, for sure. Oh man. Because even though we don't say it, it's kind of like, oh Joe, we're like you on the treadmill. Yeah. Oh, we competing. Oh, what you at?

You at 4.5? Damn it, I'm going to five. Yeah. Oh, you at 5.5? I'm going to six. Oh, we competing. You ain't gotta say nothing. Cause why you bring your ass right next to me?

That treadmill over there was open. So you brought your ass to me, we competing. Yeah. Before you know it, we both are the full spread. Whoever give out first. I really, really, really enjoy the back and forth between the two. You know, two of the best players in the players that feel they're worthy of being the MVP.

Yeah. Because MVP, I like it. I like it. I think it's healthy. It creates, it creates a debate. It gets, you know, for those of us that on the other side of the media, it gives us something to talk about because the numbers, I'm not going to say they're they're identical, but these

two players are so good at their respective craft. It means so much to their defenses that it's worthy of having a talk and debate about. Because you know why Ocho? They're in the same draft class. You know, anytime two players, even though one's a defensive end, the other is an outside linebacker. Linebacker, yeah. They do the same thing. So they're always gonna be competition. When two quarterbacks come out in the

same draft class, Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels, they're linked forever. Everybody came out in the 83 draft class, Elway, Marino, Kelly, all those, Easton, who else was in that draft plan? Danielson. They linked. It is what it is, don't you? I don't make the rules. They're always gonna be compared to each other.

Absolutely. Always. So, it is what it is. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond

to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Daniel Jones seemed to say goodbye, Ocho, to the Giants and their fans in today's statement to the media. And according to Jordan Schultz, there is disappointment among some Giants players regarding how Daniel Jones' situation was handled over the past week, especially with players aware it's primarily a financial decision by the organization. Dexter Lawrence publicly stated on Tuesday,

he's quarterback one to me. To me, he's the best quarterback on the team. One offensive player told Schoensof the phone, we're not idiots. They did this because of money. So be it. But Daniel Jones has been all class, never complained,

and is not being completely disregarded. The team record is bad. You can point fingers everywhere. Try to blame him, it's trash. And making him third string is weak as F. The sense versus the organization goes far beyond just one person. I love it.

It's not, I love, I love what the players are saying. This, you know, like. Yeah, yeah. Obviously because they're on the team. But your team, for anybody, if they don't know, even though you are playing the game of football, you're only good as your quarterback. You're only as good as the person who's at the helm, who's in control of the offense, being able to make the right, the right and the wrong decisions.

I mean, that's just what it is. You know, I respect Dexter Lawrence and Woody's having to say, and some of those other players being upset. But how can you be upset? Have you watched David Jones play the past three years? Oh, y'all got so much to say now, Ocho. Why ain't y'all play better? Now everybody got a lot to say.

Listen, I- Oh, they're talking, you're talking your ass off now. What about play your ass off? Right. Daniel Jones, you play better. Everybody that got a comment, play better. And let's see what would've happened. Well, listen, Dexter Lawrence playing his ass off though, so we really can't

say nothing about him. He's one of the best in the league, but they have to understand the business. They have to understand the nature of the business, especially when it comes to the money aspect of why they're benching him and making him third string quarterback. So because of that injury clause, if he happens to get hurt, because which he probably would do, if they do allow him to stay in there, sometimes an injury will pop up out of nowhere for that $20 million. 23 million, yeah.

But here's the thing, Ocho. So y'all making statements about just this year. What about last year? How was he last year? Okay, he got hurt. But look at his body of work. His body of work doesn't justify 40 million and it definitely doesn't justify running the risk.

It wasn't like y'all going anywhere anyway. Y'all make it seem like they been to man like they did Russell Wilson last year. Y'all trash. Okay, trash is a very harsh word. Y'all sanitation. Y'all a landfill. So where you going?

Oh, they make it seem like they had a chance for the playoffs if they had left Daniel Jones in there. All Daniel Jones is going to do is look worse and worse and worse. The fans are probably already stopped showing up. But what about getting out of this? Daniel Jones is not going to be in New York next year. So what I getting out of that? I'm not winning. He's not going to be there. So what do I get by leaving his ass in the game and continuing to start for us, Ocho? Yeah, nothing. You're not getting anything. I got a question though. I'm confused. Anytime that players get benched, is it normal for quarterbacks to apologize? No, what do you apologize for? You could have played better. Yeah, I don't know if I've

quite seen that. I've quite seen that before. Is it or is it because it's in New York? So it's a little different. You know, I respect what he had to say. I respect what he had to say as far as, you know, being grateful for the opportunity. But like, come on, man. Bro, these guys, I mean, come on, man. This is. Look, this is pro sports. And there's only two things you can get, wins and losses. That's it. That's how you judge. He's lost more than he's won.

Okay, they say, well, it's not all the quarterback. Well, who the mofo that gets the credit when they win? They ain't mention no office alignment. They're not mentioning Dexter Lawrence. They're not mentioned in linebackers who they mentioned the quarterback So the problem that I got is that what when they a lot of times he was like, well, it's a team game But y'all blame the quarterback When you like here's the thing when you like somebody It's a team game when you don, here's the thing, when you like somebody, it's a team game. When you don't, it's not.

It's really that simple. You and I played this game long enough to understand how the dynamic of it works. Yeah, most definitely. I don't care how good, in today's game, you can't put a team, a great enough team around if your quarterback stinks. Yeah.

Back you could, before they changed all these rules, you can run the football, you can play outstanding defense and you can hide your quarterback. You can no longer hide him. He's the only position that you cannot hide anymore. Because if you got a weak corner, Ocho, I play cover too, I roll coverage is weight. I can help him.

If I got a weak offensive line, I can just slide protection or I can tell the back chip your way out. Chip, chip. Yeah. If I got a terrible quarterback, what the hell am I going to do? Hand the ball off 65 times. Yeah. You can't, you can't hide it. Not, not in this game. Not in this game. No, absolutely not. You're going to get exposed.

And the thing that I love most about sports, but love especially NFL, you got to update your resume. Them people don't give a damn what you've done in the last year. Yeah. Cause what they gotta do it right now, Joe. He's a Super Bowl champ and he won the MVP. And yeah, what are you doing right now? Those trophies are on his mammum.

Those awards are on his mantle. Yeah. Those accolades is on his mantle. Those awards are on his mantle. Those accolades is on his resume. But what does that gotta do it right now? What Nightcap did in 2023 ain't got is to do with 24. And 24 ain't gonna have is to do with 25. We've got to keep getting better. And we're gonna keep the hammer down, getting better. Better graphics, better editing, better social. We're going to get better at everything.

That's what we do. And if we don't, I won't need to know why we're not getting better. Right. And I don't like to ask questions. I really don't. Yeah, we ain't asking shit. Nah, I'm not a guy that asks questions. I really don't. Yeah, we ain't asking shit. Nah, I'm not a guy that let me ask questions.

Because what I took by the time I come to you to ask the question, I already know the answer. Oh yeah. Drew Logs also questioned not being named quarterback one for the Jets. That's a question that I still have for myself. It was expressed to me that that was going to be number two interesting situation. So let me get this straight. You're quarterback two, quarterback one gets benched,

quarterback three, pole ball huge with no play. And now you're still quarterback two, even though quarterback one got benched. And it's so bad that they moved Daniel Jones to quarterback four and brought a guy for the practice squad. And put in made him three. Hold on, I'm confused. If you were good enough and adequate enough at the helm where they feel you could be a

leader of men and quarterback the helm of the New York Giants, then you would have been one from the beginning, from the get go. Or you would have been one at the previous team you were at before. But obviously before you got to the Giants, you weren't good enough to play there. So what makes you think you're good enough to start the goddamn New York Giants? Well, I'm just- At some point as a player also reality has to set in and you have to say to yourself, I'm not good enough to be a starter, but I can be a very, very good backup quarterback.

Well, I hope you don't think Tommy DeVito is a starter. I mean- Yeah, I do mean, yeah, I hope you don't think Tommy DeVito is a starter. I mean, yeah, I knew me. Yeah. I would have known. You don't, you don't, you don't, you don't talk about Tommy, Tommy Cutlass, Tommy two times and Tommy DeVito like that. He might not be a starter, but he might be a spark.

He might bring some type of excitement to you. He's, he's a dual threat quarterback. I'm not saying he's the best quarterback in the goddamn league. He can run the ball. He can throw the ball good enough to make it exciting. They in this god damn season. I'm putting Tommy DeVito in to make sure I don't win. I'm trying to secure my draft position and I'm not going to have him monkey it

up. I like that. Cause you know, you know, we're going there. Want me to tell you? Nah, time ain't going there. We're going there. Oh, I know who going though. Bad, bad plea. That's what the judge said. The judge is not, if, if, oh, Joe, if I've already benched quarterback number one, I felt he gave me the best chance to win. After I remove him, I don't want any chance to win.

Right. I'm putting the guy that gives me the least chance to winning. Mm-hmm. So we just wanna secure, we just wanna secure that goddamn, I'm trying to get the best grab spot I can possibly get. And I know Tommy DeVito helps insures that.

You gotta believe in your Italian, baby. Believe in your Italian. He can believe it all he wants to. If the Cowboys Monday night meltdown wasn't bad enough, CD Lamb and Treyvon Diggs just added gasoline to the fire. Hours after a crushing blowout loss to the Houston Texans, Treyvon and CD went to the club to film a music video. Dallas TV shared the clip of the Duvall on Twitter, sparking outrage.

One fan didn't mince word. That's why y'all suck. Another touch to culture. Dallas Cowboys are not a serious football team. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not fit to do that right now. We're not fit to do that right now. Cause every time I try to send you, Ocho tell y'all, man, let them boys have fun. Let them boys do what they want to do in their off time.

Ocho, how you feel about this? I mean, when you're losing, I mean, I'm just me, my perspective. Yeah. If we lose like that during my time when I was in Cincinnati and we were losing, like I don't go out no way. So it's hard. I'm just, I'm hypothetically speaking. Yeah. I wouldn't be out. I wouldn't be out. But again, after losing the way they've been losing this season, I think, you know, them boys might've felt like, man, forget that, man, we get an eye ass whoop.

I need to go find a different outlet outside of football and I'm going to the goddamn club. Now it's hard for us. Now, Unc, the way you think, I know how you think, Unc, you know how I think about winning. I don't, I don't go nowhere, no way, but as far as we can control what other players do outside of the game of football or how they want to spend their free time. That's why y'all Cowboys suck. Because two of your best players, this is what they're doing.

That shows you how much the game of football means to them. That's it. Told me everything I need to know. Yeah. All I gotta do, I see better than I hear. Now I heard what CD said. Yes sir. Trayvon doesn't do a whole lot of talking. I hear what Michael said,

but my grandpa used to always tell my brother that, he said, I see better than I hear. Yeah. I heard what y'all told me, but I know I see that trash still in the corner when I told y'all to take it out. Everybody talks about winning, but do you take the steps in order to win?

How is partying? You got your ass kicked. I would have left the stadium with a bag over my head. Ain't no way y'all see me leave your stadium. After I got beat like that. After I've gotten beat like that every game. 47 9 30 17 48 32, a yada and a partridge and a pear tree. And you do this? Yeah. It's disrespectful.

It is disrespectful to the fans that pay the hard earned money. But you know what? It couldn't happen to a better franchise because all they ought to do is run his mouth and talk about what they're gonna do. And this team, I've been around Super Bowl teams and this and that and all they players do because they take it from the top

They run their mouth and they ain't one dog crap. None of them. No dog shit Um, you can say it is not one. Hey, I got a question They talk about they know what it takes. You don't know what it takes to win because none of you guys have won It is disg, it's disappointing that these two are your best players. This is what they think. See, Jesse goes to show you. See everybody, see everybody tells you

what they think you wanna hear. Yeah. But I see what I need to know. All right. And it tells me everything I need to know. You can't convince me these guys care about winning because this is not what you do when you want to win.

So what's in the club that's going to help you get better, take your ass home and start the recovery process. This is why I couldn't play in today's time because guys, I don't care what they say guys most a lot don't care about winning. They like the bag. They like what comes along with being an NFL player. You will get the baddest women. You will get to go to the clubs. You get the mood to the front of the line. You get to go all these places. But everything, our brand, my brand, the Cowboys is the brand. Ain't one player on that team got a damn brand

because you ain't won nothing because you don't care about winning. You ain't got no leadership. That's your number one problem. Who's the leader? I'll wait for you to tell me who's the leader. Is it Dak? Is it Michael? Is it digs? Is it city? Who is the leader of that team on Joe quarterback? You lying to me. Ain't no way. That's what you get.

Think about the leaders, Ocho. That is the problem that the Cowboys have. They're devoid of leaders. They're devoid of leadership from top to bottom. The owner isn't a leader. He thinks because he's worth 16 billion. He thinks because he has a TV show. He's the only owner, the only GM that really has a TV show.

He thinks that makes him a leader. Little does he know, they don't pay him no attention. Mike McCarthy's not a leader because they know he's been emasculated from the day he arrived He has no all he is is a coach in title. He has no powers Hmm He's Batman without his belt. What the f could Batman do without that belt? Come on preacher he's Superman with kryptonite nothing boys embarrassing it's embarrassing you couldn't do this on your off day I'd have been pissed off

if you did it on Tuesday but at least you got a little like me as my off day you lost the game and you took your no good for nothing answers out and shot a video. Damn. Everything I need to know. That's why, see, that's why. They all, you know what I know. I was never the best player ever.

And I'm never gonna say that, but I tell you one thing I can tell you, I know what it know, I was never the best player ever. And I'm never going to say that, but I tell you one thing I can tell you. I know what it takes to win. And I know the sacrifice and the dedication and determination. You guys don't know nothing about that. Them guys just talk. They run their mouth and they've been well compensated for it. Because what guys look at today, if I make the bag, that means I'm good.

The hell you die. That's why I see you see my calls. Everybody got a my calls cleat, Ocho. I remember when we played, you had to be a dog to get a damn cleat. Now guys got patent leather cleat, they got fur, they got diamonds on the cleat. I said, bro, how'd you get a cleat?

You're on special teams. Why do you got a cleat? I don't want, boy look here. There's not one player and I wanna be crystal clear and I wanna be abundantly clear. Yeah. And I say this in the strongest, the most sincerest, I wouldn't wanna play with one player

on the Dallas Cowboys one Damn, huh? Not one I want to tell Zack martin two years ago, but Zack martin has beat the hell all the rest of you can keep every look Oh, well, you don't want to play with that. Not one. They don't want to win. Oh, Joe. Yes, sir. They want to talk about where they, they want to have talk shows.

They want to have podcasts. They want to talk about stuff. Some people talk about it. Some people be about it. And some people do what it takes in order to win. You can't win like that. You can't win with them. Jerry, you're gonna have to make a decision. Cause you got a bunch of guys that just happen to be

collecting big-ass checks but you don't have one leader you have a guy that could call a meeting but ain't nobody paying a damn attention to a word he's effing saying because that's what they think about them because everybody got their own agenda that's the problem That's the problem. Michael Parsons apologizes for Mike McCarthy comment. When I'm talking about here, I'm thinking about the Dallas Cowboys. I have no reference.

I was in the middle school, elementary school, and Mike McCarthy was a Packer. See what I'm saying? Not a student of the game. Most players are historians of the game. The really good ones? Ask TJ Watt about the defensive player. Ask TJ Watt about the history of the game.

Ask, move forward, I remember Mac MacArthur was with the Packers, I have no reference to that. Wow, I wouldn't even say that. You see, remember we talked about Anthony Richardson and how he should have said certain things? Right. See, if you keep your mouth closed, people won't know what you don't know.

But when you open your mouth, you remove all doubt. Mm-hmm. I have no reference. So obviously no disrespect to his career and what he made for himself is one of the most winningest coaches. I could have done better. But I thought you didn't say anything.

Who apologizes for nothing, Ocho? Is that what you knew? Well, you're coming back, coming back because of the backlash on what he said, the context of what you said. But if you're right, if you're right, I'm standing on it. Okay. You standing on it too. You ain't apologizing when Ocho right. Hell, you don't want to apologize when you're wrong. So I know damn well GD well you ain't

apologizing when you're right. But anyway, let me continue this. As far as you as I am, I think people would take that out of context, okay? They took it how you said it. I wanted to hurry up out of the locker room. Next time I'll be very careful about what I say. So that's my apologies. What'd you think about that? You should have kept his mouth closed, huh?

We'd have never knew what he didn't know. You don't know what you don't know. And people don't know what you don't know. Yeah. Till you open your mouth and then you remove all doubt whether or not they know what you know. Right. That's the part. You see, I was heard out of the locker room. Two things that can never be taken back, words spoken and deeds done.

Be careful what you say, be careful how you treat people. Right. I'm done. At some point in time, until we gotta stop using excuses, oh, he young. He young, he ain't no better. 25, he's young? young. He young. He ain't no better. 25 is young. He ain't too young to catch that check.

That just, this is like, this is- Noah, I think most of the time also as well. I mean, the players, especially those that have podcasts, those that like to talk, especially to the media, obviously being a part of the Cowboys, you know, anything you say is magnified because of the star on your helmet, you gotta be a little bit more careful, a little bit more media savvy. Everybody's not media savvy. Why you got a podcast then if you're not media savvy?

You're in the media, you're held to the same standard. You fake reckless, you become reckless. Yeah. What if a media member said, I don't know who that player was, you would eat his ass up. It's your job to know. It's embarrassing these kids, these young men, they're not kids.

These grown ass men, they're kids masquerading as grown men. And it's embarrassing. They don't realize how embarrassing it is. I just wish guys, I just wish these players today, some of them, not all, there's no such thing as all, there's no such thing as every. But a lot of these players, Ocho, they fooling the fans. Because we get up here and they talk about what they want to do, and I just want to win. You want to win, but you want to get your numbers. You want to win, but you want to get your numbers. You want to win, but you want to get your stats.

Sometimes winning requires you not to do that. And it's OK, because at the end of the day. Who doesn't, Ocho? Yeah, but we won. How do I go in good conscience and complain about not getting targets and catches and we won the game. So is it about my numbers or is it about wins? I just know what it takes to win.

Was I the best player? Am I the best player? No. I just know what it takes to win. Everything that I've said, y'all come back, oh, oh, you don't know, but that Joe L.M.B. situation. I told y'all a lot of stuff. Told y'all about A.B. Y'all, oh no, no, let that man free. Now look at you. Why ain't nobody offering the man? Ain't no job.

Y'all was gassing them up. Y'all put a battery in his back. Duracell. No, it was a rechargeable battery. And y'all kept gassing them up. Y'all put a battery in his back. Duracell. No, it was a rechargeable battery. And y'all kept it plugged up. All I want to do, I'm not into anything, Ocho, that I can't win at. That's why I don't do a whole lot. I'm gonna be great at what I do.

I don't want to be good at a whole lot of ish. I want to be great at a I do. I don't want to be good at a whole lot of ish. I want to be great at a few things. That's it. Some people are born great. Some people have greatness thrust upon them. It doesn't matter which one you fall under. What do with the greatness? do with the greatness. Theodore Roosevelt. It's embarrassing. Cowboy y'all are just. Damn.

Hopefully we be done with that. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters and their stories. I'm a big fan of the show, and I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show, and I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show, and I'm a big fan of the show.

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I'm a big fan of the show, and I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show, and I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show, and I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show, and I'm a big fan of the show. I'm a big fan of the show, andball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling.

Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Jerry Jones is reporting to the Bearhound, Cliff Kingsbury and Robert Sala as possible head coach replacement. Why are you talking about head coach replacements in the middle of the season? I just think, why are you surprised by this? Did somebody put, that's actually came from Jerry Jones? Didn't we talk about this? When stuff come out it's coming from somewhere? Oh I see I see I see you going with it. They play you playing the seed early huh? First play the seed early.

Mike McCarthy knew when he didn't get a contract extension he was dead man walking. Yeah unless they were winning. I don't believe the only way he could have saved this job. He had to go. He had to go deep. 12 and five wasn't going to do it because he had went 12 and five the previous three years and he still hadn't got a contract extension in his fourth year. I mean, during season on Mondays, after games,

I mean, I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm not Why, why, why folks feel comfortably able to do what they're doing in off season? I mean, during season, on Mondays, after games.

Well, hell, the owner, the owner act, the owner act a fool himself. You know why they do that? What they do, Ocho? Because Jerry don't take it so it's when he bringing people trotting through there during the week, he make it like a zoo. So they say, you know what? Hell, we're in a circus, let's clown too. So they do what they wanna do also. You take it serious, we take it serious.

Cowboy vs. Giants Thanksgiving game prices at low at $25. This is what it get his attention. This is what'll get his attention. This is what'll get his attention. Wait, say it again. Cowboy giant Thanksgiving day game tickets at low as $25. That's what'll get his attention, old choc. You gotta tell you got a touch in the pockets, huh? Yeah.

You got some pockets that'll get anybody's attention now Yeah Justin Parkers, I'd get anybody attention now What got their attention? What got their attention with the Kaepernick? Advertisers and sponsors say hey, we're gonna we're gonna money. We're gonna pull out. Hey, y'all have to stand up That's hey, they started playing that looter song in all the arena stand up They don't play by that money boy. That's that bottom line. That's how y'all fans get Jerry's attention. So y'all be talking about y'all mad at Jerry.

Jerry need to step down and y'all still playing three, four hundred, five hundred dollars for tickets. What? Do that. Y'all still selling out the building. Jerry don't hear y'all. When it come, billionaires understand one thing, capital, money.

When stock prices drop, that's when the shareholders start raising hell, that's when the board make decisions. That's what I'm talking about. Oh, Joe. Yeah. We had this conversation, well, let me go over. The Jets are a certified disaster and they got messier today.

The day began with the team fine general manager, Joe Douglas, which was not exactly surprised. Douglas was 30 and 64 during the Jets tenure and never snipped the playoffs. The juicy of all was Woody Johnson wanted to bench Aaron Rodgers just four weeks into the season in favor of Tyrod Taylor. The coaches present in the meeting were stunned according to our report and rightfully so. Johnson backed off but fired Robert Sala a week later. Fired Robert Slla demoted Nathaniel Hackett.

Now I asked you who was next. Right. See Green Bay got smart, Green Bay said hell y'all, you're in for the get me up out of here. Matt LaFleur and Brian Goudikis and Mark Murphy. Hold on, Woody Johnson won the bench and Rolins in week four for Tyrod Taylor, right? Yep.

So the elephant in the room who always been the problem. So you're doing all this firing where you're not getting, putting the right person in the place that needs to be. But how you gonna bench, I ain't never seen nobody bench a quarterback that make that kind of money either. If he were left over to Woody Johnson, he woulda. He woulda, yeah.

So now Joe Douglas gone. But you, Woody, you do realize they use your jet to go fly to see Aaron Rodgers. You do realize you signed off on all this. So where's your culpability in any of this? Right, but you know he can't fly himself, but also they're expecting to get the Aaron Rodgers to bowl. They're expecting to get the Aaron Rodgers.

They got the old Aaron Rodgers. They're expecting to get the Aaron Rodgers to bowl. They're expecting to get the Aaron Rodgers. They got an old Aaron Rodgers. Bro, everybody ain't gonna be. So you thought they was gonna turn right around after Tom Brady did what he did. You thought so soon right after that, another guy was gonna do that?

What allowed Brady to play as long as he did and as well as he had no major injury after he suffered that ACL injury. That was in 2008. So up until that, he had no injuries. He had no hamstring. He had no injuries that really caused him to miss time. Yeah.

Aaron Rodgers was coming off one of the most serious injury a player in the sports can suffer. The Achilles injury. Plus he's 40. You know, I don't think he takes the game as serious as Tom as well. Of course not. Yeah, he doesn't take the game as serious.

Two totally different type of quarterbacks, especially when it comes to their approach to the game and the seriousness of it and the way they take it. So I could understand if you're coming back up, if you're coming off an injury like that and you already don't take it serious, you do what you need to do to get back. It's in good graces and health to play,

but your approach is still wrong because everything you do talk about when you are on TV, it has nothing to do with the game of football. Nothing. Oh, you finally realized that, huh? Yeah, I said it before. I just don't understand. Every time he speaks,

it never has anything to do with damn football. Mm-hmm, no. Or some shit I gotta look up in the goddamn dictionary on the goddamn computer. Are you talking about going into the dark and he's talking about these trips and he's talking about this and talking about that? Nothing about building team conradery,

building team chemistry. Yeah. And when he could have been built he could have been doing that he was an Egypt talking about a trip Everybody know what that mandatory mini camp you don't play nothing around that old Joe cuz that's the one that you got to be at Yeah, Oh, let me Everybody that understands what the word mandatory means right has to be there Everybody that understands what the word mandatory means has to be there. But what he failed to realize, what he did in Green Bay ain't got nothing to do. They want to see what you're going to do for the Jets.

You heard Tomber, I said it when I went to Baltimore. Them Pro Bowl, those All-Pros, those Super Bowls, that ain't got, I've done nothing in Baltimore. I've got to come in, work my ass off to let them see how I became the player I became while I was there. Payton said it. Tom so eloquently laid it out. He's like, what is, what I accomplished in New England got to do with Tampa?

Tampa getting, Tom getting his teammates, hey, let's go to the park. It's in COVID. We ain't supposed to be in the park. We gonna make them throw our ass out. They getting thrown out of high school fields. That shit was funny. Payton getting his guys together. He grabbed up Julius and Decker and Julius Thomas and No-Sean.

Hey, let's go throw, guys. I think Stokely was there at the time. Or Welker. Let's go. Hey, let's go throw. Let's let's let's build up some chemistry. Let's build up a bond. Let's get to know. Let me let me tell you where I want to throw the foot. You tell me where you want the ball

and let me tell you what I'm looking for on this route. Mm hmm. Now, let me go over to Egypt. I've already got this trip planned. Hey, so it is what it is. Egypt, I've already got this trip planned. Hey, so it is what it is. And he wanted, if I'm the Jets, I need somebody to explain to me,

why would I want Aaron Rodgers back? Next year? Yes. Ooh. If Aaron Rodgers is not done, if he's not done, he signed two years, didn't he, on? I think he has another year left on that contract. I'm sure he does. Okay, he signed three.

Okay. But for what? Right. Why do I want, tell me why do I want him, Mocho? What am I getting? A 41 year old that's a year older than what he is now? So what, he's gonna gain speed? He's gonna be getting faster?

You know what, a better question is, if you don't want a Knicks here, what's your next option? What's your next viable option where you can compete and you can continue? Can I compete with Aaron Rodgers? You telling me what I can't do without him, what can I do with him? They're three and eight.

So tell me what can I do with him? Cause I can be three and eight without him. And fame 50 million. Yeah. Hell, you in last place in the division. If you finish last place in the division with him, I can't finish in last place in the division with him, I can't finish last place in the division without him? Yeah.

But hey, you understand it. You know how difficult that position is, how difficult it is to find a quarterback for that position. You know that. Yes. It takes a while. Have they found one? They got one in the position now.

Have they found a quarterback for that position? It's been a long, when's the last time they had one one think about that. He's been there two years even better question We don't we don't disregard that. Yeah, do they got a quarterback right now? No Take Rogers off the back of the jersey you bringing that guy back next year. No Any David if he does get the grace to come back next year, it's because of what he's done in the past. If he does get the grace to come back next year, it's based off what he's done in the past.

Of course. Absolutely. Oh, he's going, he's going to get some grace based on that alone. Grace don't win your game. Despite having a similar, a similar red loss record Devontae Adam said things with the Jets are much different than when they were the Raiders look at the situation I was in Vegas and look at the situation. I'm here. At least I feel hopeful that we'll be have a good a good performance I'm confused

So as long as you have a good performance, but you lose you cool Okay, I mean did I read that wrong? I wish I could have this up in your thing. He says look at the situation I was in Vegas. You look at the situation I'm in here. At least I feel hopeful that we'll be able to have a good performance. At least here I think we'll be able to win. Did I, did I miss something that I asked? Did you leave out win? So there's no winning that just a good performance. I'm gonna read it again because maybe you can pick by winning this. Look at the situation I was in in Vegas and you look at the situation I'm in here.

At least I feel hopeful that we'll be able to have a good performance. Yeah, I think the wording, the wording, the wording is wrong. The wording and the way he said it, what he's trying to say is wrong. How you trying to, how you trying to, you tell me all the time,

why you trying to put words in my mouth? Why you trying to tell me what I'm trying to say? You doing that with Devontae. So now you gonna tell a man what he meant to say, even though he said it. Nah, I'm just saying, said we, we have to perform good. He's speaking we. At least I hope we'll be able to have a good performance. He's talking about offensively, we. That's why he said we as he.

What's the jazz record? Three and eight. You heard me the jazz record three and eight. You heard me on three and eight. What was the Las Vegas? What's Las Vegas? Rate Las Vegas record. 3 and 8 to 8. Hey, boy, you, you here the night, boy. Man, they got him, man. Hey, hey, boy, you here Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars

Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.