Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: Cowboys embarrassing, Rodgers to blame, Browns upset Ravens

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to Brock Purdy, George Kittle and the injury riddled San Francisco 49ers beating Dak Prescott, CeeDee Lamb and the Dallas Cowboys 30-24 on Sunday Night Football. Later, Unc and Ocho dive into Aaron Rodgers and the struggling New York Jets falling to Jacoby Brissett and the New England Patriots 25-22, Jameis Winston and the Cleveland Browns upsetting Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry and the Baltimore Ravens 29-25 to end a 5-game losing streak and much more!03:20 - Show Starts03:43 - Intro05:30 - Cowboys lose to 49ers29:23 - Pats beat Jet43:30 - Browns beat Ravens(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Jump the gun again. Now, hello ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. I'm your favorite, uh, shadow shark. He's your favorite 85, route runner from Liberty City, Bingo's ring of fame, Art Arif. I'm not so sure he wanna claim the Bingo's right now, but he was a pro bowler, all pro, for the Cincinnati Bingo's. That's Chad Ocho Cico Johnson.

You can just call him Ocho. Thank you for joining us after the 49ers win 30, Cowboys 24, the Cowboys fall to three and four. The 49ers are now 500, four and four. I think they're going to buy. Again, thank you for joining us. Cowboys might be in trouble in that division because the commanders walk it off.

The Eagles blow it out and they're looking good and Cowboys they aren't. So thank you for joining. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit that like button and do us a favor. Go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from. We want to thank you. Every subscriber counts. Every subscriber matter and because of you Ocho and I and Nightcap have been able to enjoy unparalleled success. So thank you again.

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Ocho, let's jump right into it. The Cowboys lose again. 49ers beat the Cowboys 30 to 24. Needing a touchdown to take the lead. Dallas goes four and out, four straight incompletions, and they lose 30 to 24. If you can't beat the 49ers, Debo ends up going out. Jennings was already out.

Ayuk is out. McCaffrey is out. If you can't beat them with the limited offensive weapons that they have, I don't know when you're going to be able to beat them because we know if they had a full arsenal, they'd probably win by 20. They'd probably win by three touchdowns. They might've put a 40 tonight. They might've put a 45 points.

Listen, I really, I thought the Cowboys coming off of our week. I thought it would have been a better showing offensively, defensively. They still can't stop the run. So I'm not sure what they know about that. That you can't turn the ball over. That didn't play well. He didn't play well. I know at the end of the game, it might look like from a statistical standpoint that deck played well as far as the yard is that CD land was able to get. I don't, I hate to call it garbage time, but it is garbage. It was because the 49ers basically playing damn near pre pre been defense. That basically they, they, they, they stopped playing defense. And, um,

I don't know what they need to do on it's, it's, it's getting scary for them. Cause everybody else in that division is playing well. The commanders is amazing. We'll get in the quarterback and do before a franchise in such a shorter time. That fast. They look good. The Eagles playing well. I'm not sure what the, what I'm curious what Jerry's going to say now. I'm curious.

He can't say nothing. Cause he put this roster together. Remember he, why you wanted us to pat him on the back Ocho for the roster that he done, everybody's here either. I either I have selected them or it was, it came across my desk. You picked that roster. And then those defensive linemen that get run through,

like Sherman went through Atlanta, that's you. Yeah. And then he said- 36 attempts, Ocho, hold up. 36 attempts, 223 yards, two touchdowns. Ugh, that's nasty work, huh? That's nasty work. But then Jerry say as a GM and an owner, there's nobody else that is better suited

to do the job than him though, right? Yeah, that's what he's saying. Okay. But a lot don't care who tell it. I'm not just making sure. Listen, I was, and I picked the 40, you know what's funny? I picked the Cowboys win.

I picked the Cowboys to win simply because the 49ers were depleted. Some of their weapons were out. Jennings was out. Brendan Iyuk was out. I wasn't sure if Devo was going to play. He played but then he ended up leaving. Yeah, he ended up.

It was towards the end of the game though. It was towards the end of the game. He had played the... But they needed him on that. They lead him on that last drive. The drive before they ended up going, you know, had to punt the ball. Right. That's when you need a Devo. That's when you need a quality guy. Somebody that you can count on is like, OK, you know what? Yeah.

Yeah, I could. He can make plays. I know I can go give him the ball. But I like, you know what I like? I like the way Purdy played the second half. I thought he left a lot of plays on the field in the first half. They did. He threw had a third down. He threw it behind Devo. He had an end cut that was wide open.

He had to dig and he threw it to the check down to kiddle. I'm like, bro, Conley is not gonna get any more open than what he was on that dig, right? On that dig, we call it end, whatever you wanna call it. He's never gonna get even any more open than what he was on that route. He wasn't sure about himself. And that was really one of the first times

that I've seen Purdy unsure about himself. He had Devo on the shallow cross, he threw it behind him. Ain't no telling what he did. You can't read, it's hard to reach back and grab that. It's hard to reach back and grab that. Oh, so you talking, you and I understand that. The casual fan at home, the people at home that never call passes, oh, it touch your hands,

you should catch it. Stop, stop foolishness, that's foolishness. You're talking to people that played. You got 12 plus years in NFL. I got 14. We got a bunch of Pro Bowls. We got a bunch of all pros. We got over we got over seven,

1500 catches between the two of us. Yes, sir. So I think we know what we're talking about. We were saying that's one of the hardest catches. You're running full speed that way. You try to open your hips to get your hips around and the ball It's hard. It's a hard catch to make even even though we did miss him

He did miss him throws what he did do very well is extend place He did with his legs play took off in making them and making plays off script using his legs And you don't really see her as one that is as a dual threat quarterback But he did really well at extending plays and running for, running for first downs when there was really nothing open. When the pocket broke down him being able to escape, he did that very, very well tonight. Well, you know, just like, well, he's unsure of his receivers.

All you can ask your receivers to do is be where they're supposed to be. If they're where they're supposed to be, when your back foot hit, let the ball go. I don't give a damn who it is. You could be throwing the ash. When your back foot hit and ash is 15 coming back towards the ball, you let that mofo go. Ocho, if you hit a five, you running the speed up, when that joker hit 10 and rolled a 12, let the ball go. It gotta be gone. It doesn't matter who's running the route. All you want him to do is to be in the place where he's supposed to be.

That's what creates uncertainty. But hey, the dude is driving back to you. He's 15, he's coming back towards you. Let it go. The mere fact that he took the check down, let me knew that he was uncertain with that. You know, he still had Carly on another end, break it out. And he skipped it, almost skipped it to it. You know, it's funny. You talk about him having uncertainty with himself, but he might have uncertainty with the person he's throwing the ball to. That could be a

possibility as well, because the trust might not be there just yet. It is, but all you can ask him to be now, if he wasn't where he was supposed to be, that's different. You got to do this. But oh, you drop back and your back foot here and he's at 15 coming back. You got to let it go.

You got to be gone. Hell, you threw it to him in practice. The hell. Hey, you know, it's funny. Now that you mention that, that's where the trust starts. Those plays repetitive. Yes, repetitive practice. So if you if you if you hesitate the game, that means in practice, it might not have won as well as it should.

Because for a quarterback, when you, when you run certain plays in practice and you get in the rhythm with a receiver, it comes like clockwork. Before you even have that break, the ball is already gone because you know where he's going to be. You anticipate it. I know Kyle. Kyle is a lot like his dad. Yeah. What the hell are you holding on the ball for? So what's his depth supposed to be?

Right. 15. How deep do you think he was? 15. Right. So why the hell you didn't throw it to him? Oh, yeah. He opened. He's not going to get any open, more open than what he was on that play.

Most definitely. And those are the plays. Hey, coach, I threw it to him. He dropped it. That's on him. I've done my job. Yeah. My job is to throw it to the guy.

If he drop it, that's on him. Yeah. Hey, what happened on that play? I don't know. He coming off the field. on him. I've done my job. Yeah. My job is to throw it to the guy. If he drop it, that's on him. Yeah. Hey, what happened on that play? I don't know. He coming off the field, I ask him, but I threw it to him. You know what I'm saying? Hey, that's all I got for you, Ocho.

Right, right. Man, at some point in time, Ocho, if you can't stop the run, it's damn near impossible to win in this league. It was nasty work on the run tonight. That's been the Achilles heel all season long. To hell last season, too, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, it's bad.

It's bad. They built to play with the lead, and that's fine to have undersized linemen. If you got a lead and a team can't run the ball. But what happens when you don't have the lead and you got those light? As look at 13, 13 is a safety playing linebacker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you know, you better have some you better have some guys that got some damn bricks in their back pocket to drop anchor on your ass.

Once one of them linemen, one of them pulling guards, get a hold of 13 or anybody, you know, basically in that second tier, that second level. Yes., they ride, they ride them all the way to the sideline. But look at all the, look at the guys, they got angular guys, they got guys look to try to shoot a gap, you know, they, they looking to get up field and you can get up field. If I got a 14 point lead, I got a 17, 21 point lead. So now I've taken you out of the running game because you're behind. I know you're not going to run.

And so you're going to run periodically. I give you 10 yards, but you running the football, you will run out of time trying to catch up. So I know you want to throw the football. This is embarrassing. This is embarrassing by the Cowboys because you look at what you look at what the Saints did to them. You look at what the Ravens did to them. Who has to be looking at me? Pull up the schedule and I can, I can, I can tell you who ran the Saints did to them. Yeah. You look at what the Ravens did to them. Who has to be, look, pull up your schedule.

And I can tell you who ran the ball down there fucking. Hey, that Saints and Ravens game was, that was nasty work. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Some other people ran it worse than, did them, do them dirty. Steelers ran the ball. Yeah.

Who? Lions. It was the lions. Oh, yeah. Oh, well, you know, you know, funny thing when you talk about the lions, the lions running the ball on everybody, everybody. They running the ball on everybody. So, I mean, if they can't stop the run, they're not going to be able to beat anybody.

If they can't play from a lead, even if they do have a lead, the fact that they can't stop the run, the team is probably going to catch up because that means the offense has to be able to be anybody. If they can't play from a lead, even if they do have a lead, the fact that they can't stop the run, the team is probably going to catch up because that means the office has to be that much more perfect every time they had the ball. And it's plus a lot of pressure on your offense. Here it is tonight. They ran the ball 19 times for 56 yards. That's not even three yards. That's that's is that three yards?

Okay. That's not even three yards. No, that's 2.9 something because 19 times three be 57. They have 56. But how do you only have 56 yards with the backs you have? You got you got you got Elliott. You got you got 10 for 34. What about your David Cook number?

What is it? Six for 12. See, I'm Kavon Turpin. He had one for 11. He had like a jet sweep, okay? Oh my goodness, man. Listen. Hold on, you can't stop the run

and you can't run the ball. Something, something got to give. Okay, okay, I'm gonna give you a recipe for getting your ass kicked. You can't run it, big helper to that. You can't stop the run. A bigger help for the day. Right.

Well, matter of fact, I got a question for you. You played the game a very long time. Let's say you were part of the the Cowboys personnel. What would be the answer for the Cowboys? What do they need to do based on what they have now? You can't go out and get any new players. You got Michael coming back at some point. I'm not sure when you're hearing D law coming back.

Yeah, for sure. What is the answer? What is the answer to fix the problem they have right now? There are no answers, Ocho. So the season's over. No, you got to play the games. But I don't have the personnel. I don't have guys that are big enough,

that are stout enough to be able to stand in there and Protect me against the run right because they getting up on your second level every time every time I Mean they scoop they scoop blocking and slip blocking up to the second level every single time They come what we mean by combo that means they're doubling and then they push the end and then they go to the linebacker Or they'll scoop the dick or they'll scoop the tackle and get up on the linebacker. So in other words, it's two against one and then they'll get to the next level. Yeah. Or they do it with a tight end.

They'll do it with a tight end and a tackle. They'll do it with, if you notice, they do a lot of motion with the tight end. He'll push the end on to make sure he's secured the edge. And then he's going up to the second level and here comes the back right behind it. Right. They don't have the personnel because they're built to play with the lead. You anticipate it. We got that.

We played 60 million for a quarterback. We got a $34 million wide receiver, but you don't have anybody outside of that $34 million wide receiver. You have no resemblance of a run game. You can't run the ball even if you wanted to. And you don't attempt to most of the time because that's why you had 38 pass attempts and you had 19 rush attempts.

So you can't run the ball, you can't stop the run. So a team is just, they just grind you down to the nub. So you know, maybe the Cowboys are banning the run too fast. Maybe they're banning the run way too fast because if you said Zeke had what? How many carries Zeke had? Zeke had 10 carries for 34 yards. And okay, and obviously you said Dalvin had six.

Had six for 12 yards. Maybe they need to balance it out a little bit more because every time you run the ball, it's not gonna hit every time. Sometimes you're gonna get one, sometimes you're gonna get two yards, sometimes you might get five, but at some point if you keep chopping wood like Coach Lewis, you just say,

you keep chopping wood at some point. Some don't break. Well, I tell you what, I'm going to give you a hatchet and I'm going to let you go try to chop down a giant redwood and I'm going to see how long it's going to take you, because that's what the Cowboys are trying to do. They're trying to chop down a redwood or a Sequoia with an effing hatchet. This David Crockett.

You ain't Daniel Boone, I understand. Because when you look at an Ocho, when that comes out of the half and he throws the interception, they go down and score, boom. So now, with a different ball, now it's 13-10. Guess what? They go right down to fifth, boom, they score again.

So now you're down two scores. You ain't got no running game. Right. I know you can't run the ball. And then, guess what? We score again. Now we got you down three. Now we got you down three scores again. We got you down 17.

And now you don't have no choice. But you got no choice but to throw it. You're afraid to run the ball. First of all, why would I hand the ball to a guy that's average of three yards of carry, another guy that's average of two yards of carry? Where they going? Back to the line of scrimmage. So in every time, if you look at it,

think about it, Ocho, when the Cowboys on second down, it's second and 10 or second and eight or four. I mean, what Dax supposed to do with that? I'm not excusing Dax for throwing those interceptions, but I'm saying, that's supposed to do with that. I'm not excusing that for throwing those interceptions, but I'm saying, yeah, it's hard to keep overcoming second and eight, second and 10, third and eight, third and 10. At some point in time, it needs to be third to one to three. That's why first down. It needs to be second and three to five.

That's why first down is the most important. First down to me, it's the most important down to make sure your third down is very manageable and it opens up your playbook because there's so many different things you can do with a third and two or a third and three. Yeah. Third and five. Now anything outside of that, you know, it gets tricky.

It's damn near a coin flip. And where do you get the first? Because if you look at it, because they're playing from behind the sticks, it's hard to play a football game like that and win a football game when you're constantly behind the sticks. And that's what the Cowboys are.

It's second and long, it's third and long. And yeah, you'll get a few of those, but over the course of a game, it don't operate like that. But the Cowboys don't look good. They don't, Ocho. Right. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker.

On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. They don't look good. The offensive line really isn't that good. Zach Martin is not what he used to be.

They hold a lot. And so it's a lot of pressure on them because you can't run the ball and the opposing team knows that it's hard to keep the mofos off your Ocho. Oh, you talking about, speaking of them not looking good, do you see who the next three games? Yes, they go to on the road,, Atlanta, playing some damn good football. Yeah, they got Atlanta. They got the Falcons.

That is Atlanta Falcons. I mean, Atlanta are the Falcons. I think they got the Eagles. Yeah, Atlanta, they got the Eagles. They got back to back week with birds. Hey, hold on. It's another difficult one right after that, though. They got the to back week with birds. Hey, hold on. It's another it's another difficult one right after that, though. They got to say it's another it's not they got Atlanta.

They got they got Atlanta. They got the Eagles and they got the Texans and then they got the commanders. Oh, you know, Washington commander. So you say commander. Yeah, they got Washington. Yeah, that's the Washington commanders. It could be it could be it could be on phone. It could be on phone. Yeah you say commander. Yeah, they got Washington. Yeah, that's the Washington commanders It could be on phone. It could be over for you. Oh and five coming out the back Denver doing better than the Cowboys I bet you that I don't know how we do it But I know we doing better than the Cowboys. I tell you what if your team did not win today

I don't want to hear you say foot or ball If your team didn't we if your team did not win today, I don't wanna hear you say foot or ball. If your team didn't win, if your team won today, say football all your life. Say yes, yes, yes, cheer. But if your team didn't win, if your team lost by more than 10 points, and if you do, and the only way you're allowed to speak if you're on a podcast,

if your team lost by more than 10, I don't wanna hear nothing. And the Eagles got lucky today, but we ain't get to that. We ain't get to that. Boy, they beat the, boy they mollywap y'all at home? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hey, ain't no mollywap. That was garbage time points now. There ain't no garbage time. Garbage time. You know why you know I get garbage time? Cause they say, hey, let's clean up the garbage. Cause that's what was on the field we played against. Garbage.

Y'all trash, Ocho. I know you don't want to admit it Ocho, that's clean up the garbage. Cause that's what was on the field. We play it against garbage. Y'all trash. Oh, Joe, I know you don't want to make it on Joe. That's your team and you should ride with them. But I told you your defense, your defense, and then your office. So, yeah, well, listen, for us, this, for us this year, the defense has been a key CEO, it's been our CEO. I'm going to be honest. You do realize that y'all got beat by the Patriots.

Yeah. What was the excuse for that? That's week one. You know, week one is a toss up. Week one is a toss up. You got starters that didn't play any games in the preseason. So it's depending on how well you run your offense. That's most of the starters. That's most of the starters on the team.

Who plays in the preseason? Yeah, you're right. That's why I say it's a toss up. And who wins is a game. whoever executes their game, playing the most and makes the least errors, most of the time when it comes to week one game, that's who wins until the all-time- In the rhythm. Now right now, week seven?

You heard me, Uncle? Yeah, y'all were hearing this was week eight you know yeah they were y'all in you were handing the week this was week eight what they call this week eight yeah this week eight huh or seven yeah week eight oh you better listen our offense don't really get rolled until you get about week four no you don't think so it's week is you in week eight yeah so you a month pass. Oh, I know. I saw about early in the season. And OK. So when you do, OK, your office get rolling about week four, when you do this kicking in a defense is reading, react, baby.

Read it. OK, we're going to react. It may be because you're read. I mean, what what did he what y'all can you can you read? You need an umbrella? I mean, what is it? What is it? What is it? Cause something going on with the Biggles. I don't know what's going on with the Biggles, man. Hey, I don't know, man.

I'm hurt, man. And I got fans, everybody tell me they wanna fire Zach Taylor. They saying the play, the play calling is- Oh, now it's the play calling. Yeah, I mean, I'm just, I'm telling you what I'm hearing from the fans. Yeah, they're blaming the coaching, they blame them coaching staff. But listen, when you come into a game with a game plan, it's up to the players to execute the exit and those.

Yeah, that's all they come down to. That's all they come down to. It don't matter who's calling it. It don't matter who's calling it. He called those same plays. Now when y'all was winning, y'all didn't say nothing about that. No.

You see how fickle fans are? Yeah. That's why if you listen to them, you'll be up there with them. Yeah, in the stands. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, somebody.

Players, coaches, listen to the fans. Yeah. And pretty soon you will join them up in there, in the stands. Somebody, somebody, somebody sent me, somebody sent me a meme or a gif that had Bill Belichick in a Bangles hoodie as a coach with the sleeves cut up.

With cheap ass Paul Brown? I mean, excuse me, not Paul, that was the dad. Mike Brown, he cheat too. We spent a little money in the off season, man. Oh, you. We spent a little money. Yeah, very little I Mean look y'all spent most of the money last year when y'all resigned Joe you got over out you got old Brown jr

So y'all feel but you know y'all really miss who Jesse base the third. Oh That's a good one. He balled it in Atlanta. He cutting a fool. He balled. He is balling. He was the quarterback of your secondary. Yeah. Yeah. But they didn't want to pay. I've been told y'all to stop all that talking. But the 49ers went at home, go to 500, four and four, with a 30-24 victory over the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys fall to three and four and fall way, way behind division leader, Washington commanders, who are six and two. And I think the Eagles are five and three, if I'm not mistaken.

The two and a half game. So there's three and four. Yeah. The Cowboys next four opponents, Atlanta, Philly, Houston, Washington are combined 22 and nine. They had three kickoff penalties. How you, can y'all get lined up on the kickoff illegal formation? Bro, what y'all doing?

What is that? It's not lined up where they should be right before the ball is kicked. Right. Now that press got it. The first Cowboys quarterback with multiple interceptions in three straight games since 1992 those oh those Cowboys Troy Eggman. That was the first year they went to the Super Bowl They ended up blowing out the Buffalo Bills, right? Oh, yeah. I Know that's a nice little that's a nice little caveat it at the old man. Look what we did bad day Hey, don't worry about it Troy later Forget about it go back and look at that roster.

Yeah. Where they had, look at your roster. Look at their defensive roster, and look at your roster. Ocho, the Pats come from behind to beat the New York Jeffs 25-22. 22, excuse me. They began the season with Super Bowl aspiration, and now their playoff dreams are starting

to slowly fade away. Two and six with a five game losing streak. Heavily favored to just came unravel in every possible way falling to 0 and three under Jeff Obert. On a Witty Johnson decision to fire Robert Solly after only five games, clearly has backfired. Yeah.

Pat Devon Gouch is a gaucho. Oh, Aaron Rodgers. I think he's struggling right now. Just a Hall of Fame quarterback like that. I hate to see him go out that way. He definitely don't look the same ish. I can run him down and catch it. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Now you remember, Ocho, we had this conversation. I said, you bring a guy like Aaron Rodgers. I said, you're hoping that the defense is exactly what they are, if not better. You're hoping the guy that you're getting is what he was where he was at. At least a little bit of what he was. You're not gonna-

You tell me Aaron Rodgers looked like Aaron, at what part? Yeah, he could make a throw here or there, but not nearly enough. Right. If that defense don't hold a team to 12 points, they not winning. Right.

They're not winning. Now I wanna know what the excuse is now, because the last four weeks, he has to play better. Okay, right. He say, listen- You know what the excuse is now because the last four weeks he has to play better Right He said you know what happened though Joe. What happened when you start to get old? Uh-huh. You know what you need to do But you just can't do it. Your body can't do it no more The mind is willing. Yeah, the body just ain't able it won't register. I Need to play better. I need to play better. I need to play better. And what you can do like when you young, you wrong. You can round off big game after big game after big game.

Yeah. As you start to age, they get farther and farther in between. You have one good game week one and then it might be week four or five, six before you have another one. And then it's week 10 before you have another one. Anybody out there, tell me Aaron Rodgers look like. Tell me that you've ever seen Aaron Rodgers look like he looks right now. But when I tried to tell you he was 40,

when I tried to tell you he's coming off an Achilles injury, oh, you hate me. He still got no full MVPs. Okay, he got no full MVPs. How you looking? Yeah, it's rough. You know what's funny? The funny thing about it is we talk about Aaron Rogers

not looking like the Aaron Rogers we're used to seeing, especially when he was at Green Bay. If Aaron Rogers is playing as bad as he is now, then that means the people around him have to play that much better. Has to play better. That's what happens. To hide the handicap or the weakness

that is, I mean thank you this plan right now as you get older at oh chose as you get older as a human what do you need to get by people to help you more maybe you need people to come in and help you prepare your meal help you to get dressed right help you to drive as an athlete you need more talent around you. You need better receivers. You need a better running game. You need the offensive line to protect you. You need a defense that can stand on their head.

But he has a receivers on. We got Devontae Adams. We have Gary Wilson. We have Alan Lazard. You have a superstar, a star running back in Breeze Hall. There should be there should be no excuses at this point. There should be no reason why the Jets are. OK, so what's the so what it is you gave me?

You got Garrett Wilson, you got Devante Adam, you got Breeze Hall, you got Alan. So what's the excuse? Oh, I don't know. But I don't know. I don't know. There's got to be something that you just told me, chat. Y'all heard Ocho said it. He said they got better weapons than what they had for Zach Wilson. I know that's what Ocho told me. They said if we get a quarterback, we're going to be fine.

You just rattle off, Gary Wilson. You just rattle off the Bonte Adams. You just rattle off Breeze Hall. You just rattle off Alan. Now, I need to know what's the problem if he has all those weapons. I don't know. But everyone I did not you don't know. Let me finish.

In order for Aaron Rodgers to play. At maximum potential. Garrett Wilson, DeMonte Adams and Breeze Hall have to be that much better. They just have to be that much better to overdo it. That's why they brought him in there. I thought they brought him in there to make them better. Yeah, I mean, not completely. OK, we bring OK, we blame Robert Sala.

He lost his job. Nathaniel Hackett got demoted. Yeah. OK, you just told me ain't nobody go say Rogers. Everybody says Sala. Everybody said a hack it. We got Salah. Everybody said Hackett. We got Devontae. You traded and got Devontae. You got him, our officer player of the year.

And Garrett Wilson, I mean, rookie of the year. Ain't nobody gonna say the obvious. Ain't nobody gonna say the obvious. I said the quarterback was the problem anyway. The other one was the quarterback's name. Oh, Aaron Rogers. Oh, okay, okay. Okay, okay, yeah.

I said it already. I was just saying, I said Aaron Rogers was the OK. OK. OK. OK. Yeah, I said it already. I was just saying I said Aaron Ross was the problem. That's why I said everyone else has to play that much better if he's not playing well. Everybody else got to be on point. But if hold on, if that was the case, you could have kept you could have kept Zach Wilson and then have everybody elevate their place. I could have told you that.

I could have told you that because he didn't even play this goddamn bad. They weren't no goddamn two and six. But also, when that was there, the defense was all world. Defense was all, oh boy, they were playing some goddamn ball. If you go back and study history of defense, which I have, only one defense in the history has gotten better statistically when they were all world the previous year. The 85 Bears, as great as they were,

if you go back and look at statistically, the 86 Bears was the greatest defensive symbol. And the funny thing that- But they got beat. They were 14 and two and they got beat. The funny thing about it though, they five credit for being the best defense because they won the Super Bowl. OK, OK, OK. You look at the 2000 Ravens, they won the Super Bowl. You look at the old two bucks. Yeah, they won the Super Bowl. You look at the 13, the 13 Legion of Boone. They won the Super Bowl.

You look at those historic defenses in Pittsburgh. They won the Super Bowl. You look at those historic defenses in Pittsburgh. They won the Super Bowl. Seventy six might have been the better about a better defense of the defense. They've simple. Now you talk about a team that won four Super Bowls in six years. And you look at the I think they won 74, 75 and they won what? Seventy eight, 79. Something like I think that's my memory, sir, be correct. That's what happened, but

If that defense have any slippage and your quarterback has slippage, yeah, it's over Yeah, it's a wrap. It's over and because they don't generate enough early enough Yeah, and so the defense is constantly on the field and now you wear them down. Yeah That's tough what What they have. I mean, they they ran OK, Ocho, 28 for a buck 12. That's like four yards of carry. That's exactly four yards. Right. Exactly. You can live with you can live with that.

Yeah. Rogers was 17 of 28, 233, 23 that. Yeah. Rogers was 17 of 28 to 33 to 33. Yeah. That Derek Drake made three or six, 23 yards. He ran for a touchdown, got kicked in the back of his head. I don't know how that was because the guy was going to slide and the guy hit him in the back of the head. But that's not the here nor there. But it just got some issues and you seeing that it wasn't coaching.

If I wasn't coaching, we talk about, they have issues. These issues have been arising since what Broadway Joe has been the same issues. Yeah. Then the same issues and the time when they were successful, it was because of their defense is because they defense,, it was because of their defense. It's because they defense, the defense is always carried the jets. Yeah. And but that but that's what happened. I mean, if you go back and look at everybody like, well, if you look at the Broncos,

they won the Subo. Yes. But do y'all remember what the Broncos offense was before that defense became that? Do y'all remember Peyton Manning? They won 13 straight. They won like 11 straight games his first year there. He finished run up for the MVP. The next year he was the MVP. 55 touchdowns, 5,400 plus yards,

broke the record in touchdown and passing yards. The next year he threw for another 39 touchdowns, 12 interceptions and almost 45, 4,600 yards. Okay, go back and look at Tom Brady. Did you see the numbers that he put up? But what happens when his defense couldn't stand on the head like they did in the playoffs and down the stretch his first year, then what happened?

Come on, chat, I know y'all watching. What happened when that defense couldn't stand on its head and they couldn't turn you over? And then he started to turn the ball over. That was the same defense. That was a Levante David, Devin White, a Vita Vail, they are JP. They had outstanding. Yeah.

But as you get older, it gets harder and harder for you to sum it up, game in and game out, throw in and throw out. I'm not telling you something. You're talking about a guy that got old in the league. I mean, I thought you'd want to hear from a guy. I thought y'all said y'all like guys that played the game, played the game at a high level one things I'm telling you what it's like to get old I couldn't sum it up game in and game out. Yeah Just like you if you were in a relationship as you start to get older you can't put them round together Ding, ding. Hey, Ocho. Hey.

When they be talking about eight inches, I give you four today and four tomorrow. That's all I got for you, Ocho. That's all I got, Ocho. Hey, that's it. That's it. So leave me alone. Hey, hold on.

I'm smashing the cover and going to sleep. Hey, no. Hey, listen. No more comments about relationships. Oh, my bad. Yeah, not right now. Oh, my bad. Yeah. Not right now. Like, you know, you're right.

You're right. You're right. My bad. My bad. And that's about no sex. No, I'm in a doghouse right now. So, yeah, I can't. I can't. Oh, no. You were the dog. I had to go out. I'll be in my house. I'll be. I know.

You don't be talking about nothing anyway. Huh? Now if I had to get the Roe Sparks, Roe Sparks have me. Have me summons it up. I can get a couple of rounds in. It's too soon, it's too soon. Okay, my bad, you right, Ojo, I'm sorry.

Too soon. You right, you right. But you need to fix that now. That's all I'm gonna say about that. Listen. Listen, it's gonna Say it's gonna take the hand of god, but I come down here and fix that Let me take my glasses off. So you see my face. What's gonna take the hand of god?

Come down. Will you better get on your knees? Hey, hold on I'm gonna reach you something my sister my sister sent me today. Oh, yeah I'm gonna share a story which I might not share today I might have to share with you later date and time. Yes, sir, but uh This is what she sent me this morning Before I even woke up. I mean, so she's up. It's three hours difference in the time So she probably said that's about probably about 435 o'clock because she gets up every morning. She reads about She said we don't pray to inform God we pray to involve God. He already knows what's going on in our life

He's just waiting for you to ask him to help. Hmm I'm gonna read that again to you. We don't pray to inform God. We pray to involve God He already knows what's going on in your life. He's just waiting for you to ask him for help. I like that. I like that, and that's right on time too. That's right on time, but back to football. I like that.

Okay. Back back. All right. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life.

The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. The Browns upset the Ravens 29-24 with Jameis Winston starting his first game,

filling in for an injured Deshaun Watson. The Browns offense looked completely different. The Browns scored 29 points. It's the first time they've reached 20 points this season and the offense had a rhythm. It had a flow to it that hasn't been present. He led a game winning drive in his first start since 2022 in the Browns toughest match of the day.

They delivered limiting Lamar Jackson to 23, 23 or 38 passing and per repeatedly slamming the door on third down. Ocho? I have a- At some point in time- Yeah. We gotta stop.

About what? We saw Joe Flacco in the same office. We see Jameis Winston in the same office. At some point in time, Ocho, they don't blame the fans. He calling this, this is what we know. This is for facts. This office looks better with Joe Flacco and James Winston than it ever has with Deshaun Watson.

Period point blank. Yeah, exactly. Now, I would get ready to ask you, listen, I'm watching the game myself and for the life of me, I can't figure out these are the same plays, same receivers, same running back, same defense. When Joe Flacco came in, obviously some of the players might, but today the office look completely different. Jamies had a 300 yard game.

3 34 in his first game, 3 34 in the first game. How to hit it. So I'm trying to think it's the fancy game. How to hit it. Touchy. So I'm trying to think it's the fancy call in different plays because there's a different quarterback. Oh, Joe, the playbook change. I'm confused. At some point in time, oh Joe, we got to call it.

It is what it is. Yes, sir. We've we've seen the common denominator. Yeah. The office doesn't look good with one right off the office look Exponentially better with two. Yeah, what is the common denominator? There are three quarterbacks that play in this offense, right? One two of them the office has a rhythm it flows they throw for 300 yards the other It doesn't look good, right and he doesn't throw for 300 yards

That's that ain't that ain't weird to you. No, because I see what it is. Right. You'll see it too. Yeah. And it's okay. That doesn't mean I don't listen. I like you.

Deshawn is a football player. I really don't know the man off the field. Right. So I know everybody talking about the allegations and all this and all that. Right. I'm talking about the football player, but just that's what I want to focus on. I'm not here. First of all, I'm not here to retalk about his case and you're not qualified either.

I want to talk about football players. Right. DeShawn hasn't looked good since he's been in Cleveland. And all I know is when two guys come in that office, that same office, that office looks exponentially better. Completely different. Now, you know, it's no fun. Now, what's what's the Browns will mess around and go on a goddamn run.

The Browns will mess around and go on a goddamn run. You come out and play like that, you know what that does for the team? You know what that does for the players in that locker room? Mm-hmm. Man. Did you hear James Winston quote after the way he called it Eminem? Yeah.

Man, dog, he is the most, he's the most, the most. Man, James talking about, hey, play for the name on the helmet. They ain't got no decal, the most. Jame was talking about, hey, play for the name on the helmet. They ain't got no decal on the helmet. Hey, he's unintentionally funny. I don't know, and he be dead serious though. To the Ravens, I didn't like the way they, I didn't like this.

Hold on, you only had 21 rush attempts. You only gave the ball to Derrick Henry 11 times. Yeah. You gave the ball to Derrick Henry 11. So they had 21 rush attempts and you let Lamar Jackson throw the ball 38 times. Okay. You don't think that's upside down? Think about what you just said. They gave Derrick gave Derek Herring to times 11, 12 times. How many yards did he have? 73. He's averaging 6.6 yards of carry. Could I interest you in that? Remember the game against Cincinnati?

Yeah. When he had 11, when he had, when he had 11 carries and then they gave him the ball twice at overtime and he took him to the front of the stand. He got up out of there. He got up out of there. He got up out of there. Yeah. They went away from it.

They went away from the game plan. They went away from what has been working. Why they did that? I have no idea. I have no idea. That's what I don't get. You have the recipe. If you notice, KFC don't change their recipe.

Popeyes don't change their recipe. Why it works works. Yeah. No, you should say church of chicken, but I'm with you Well, I hadn't had either a long time so I can just Because when you think about it KFC the original recipe Yeah, it's on the lock and key. Okay. Popeyes, the Cajun, whatever, whatever they use it. But I'm saying they've maintained that the Ravens, you have the recipe on that five game winning streak that you went on. What did you do? You ran the ball. Yeah. I said, I have to see, Ocho, it's sometimes it gets really hard for you to have an honest conversation about the Ravens because people think you're trying to like, I said, look, I think the Ravens are playing

phenomenal, but I have concern about their defense because I don't think the back end is very good. Oh, he just trying to sneak this Lamar. That's just another way to go around about saying Lamar can't get it done. You don't like Humphrey and Wiggins? Did I say it right? Is it Wiggins. Did I say right? Is it Wiggins?

Go back and look at the past. Ash, what are the Ravens past defense rank? I'm gonna say KFC was good. I'm saying they haven't changed the recipe. See y'all lose. See y'all get so cracked and y'all missed the message. I can tell, I can tell y'all didn't do well in school Y'all was in the same class K through 12 and didn't never change her own room. I

Can tell I can tell The Ravens are dead last in past defense The Ravens are dead last in past defense. The Ravens are dead last in past defense. But when I said it, oh, that's just the way of you trying to sneak this Lamar saying he can't get it done. No. Oh, I just want to know one thing. When I said they weren't very good in the back end and now they're dead last in past

defense, y'all think I watch Raven's game? This is not a trick question. It's a yes or no. Right. It's not rhetorical either. Damn, I get it, Ocho. I get it a lot of times. If you don't like the message, you won't receive the message. You like the message of the messenger, the messenger. Yeah.

Well, I just go give it to you straight. I don't got no. I don't have any. If anything, you would think like, to you straight. I don't got no but I don't have any good if anything you would think like man just When I told the truth the one thing I want to say about the Broncos when I told told the truth about the Broncos What was going on? That was it. Mm-hmm, but I get it. I get it. I get it Bro, my job is to like watch the games and give you an honest assessment from a guy that played the game, that studied the game.

That's it. I'm not, yes, yes. The touchdowns, hey, I like touchdowns. We're going to talk about the commanders that last play and the guy bull jiving. You see, Ocho? You see what they got him? Yeah. Nah, he got to apologize.

Yeah. There ain't enough apologies. But back to the Ravens. Ocho, Derrick Henry is averaging 129 yards a game. Now he got he got to apologize. Yeah, there ain't enough apologies. But back to the Ravens. Oh, Joe, Derek Henry is averaging 129 yards a game. Go back and look at his last three or four games. He probably average it was seventy five. And you give him a level and carries.

Yeah. Well, you know, that's that's that's on that's on Tom Munkin. That's that's that's on him. And that's that's that's on the play calling something madeunkin. That's on him. That's on the play calling. Something made them divert away from the run game. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. But I know one thing, the goddamn Browns look good with goddamn James Winston in the center today.

I know that. Yeah, Ocho, we had this conversation, Joe Flacco look good on the center. They went on a run that you asked me the question. Man, what's going on? Why? Why? The Sean can't do what Joe Flacco do it. Now you ask me, why can't the Sean do it?

James Winston do it. When I envision the Sean, I'm thinking of the Sean watching that was in Houston, the Sean Watson, I didn't have any of the weapons that he has now at his disposal, but still was a top. Yeah I think he had two years he had a one year or two years with uh with hop. Yeah Not hop was going already on hop was going he had a hell of a season when hop wasn't even there Go ahead. I Think I think hop he played a year with hop Go ahead.

I think I think he played a year with her. Yeah, I'm saying he even had a better season once hop left. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was even down like, but damn, so I'm thinking that's the Deshaun we're going to get. And it just it just hasn't been that since he gets since he got to Cleveland. I think and I think it is up here, though. You heard me. Huh? Is up here. Well, yeah, yeah, it's up here.. You heard me? Huh? It's up here. With who?

D'Shawn? Yeah, yeah, it's up here. It's up. It's gone, it's shot. It's shot, that confidence is shot. Well, how you play quarterback position? Listen, so many things, so many things going on off the field, so many things going on the field.

Or it can weigh you down. I'm not gonna say that he doesn't have a heavy burden. Yeah of ish that's on his mind. So and a Lot of times but here's the thing Ocho is that what really great athletes can do is compartmentalize. Yes and be able to sit I'm on the field. Yeah, most important thing is this game. Yeah. I'll deal with wife, girlfriend, significant other. I'll deal with crises, family, right? Whatever the case may be, I'll deal with that at the appropriate time. But what I must do right now.

It's focused, right? Lock it in. Yeah, but that's what you have to do. All the greats, all the really greats, you know, and compartmentalize. It's hard to do as easy as you as you sit there and say it. Everybody can't do that. Sometimes what's going on off the field, it creeps into your work. Sometimes you bring it to work. And I think that's that's that's been the issue. I just I just I just wish it's going to be studied because it's going to be a 30 for 30.

Oh, what somebody's going to do a documentary on this on Deshawn. Okay, okay, okay. Because we've never we've never we've never seen we've never seen an athlete so high and have suffered precipitous drop. Right. We've never, right. We've never, especially now look, he's had the, okay. He tore the, what is the key leads? I think he tore the key lead, but this drop started before injury. Yeah. So we can't contribute it to an injury. It's I just hate it. Yeah. Well, they look good man.

So we're going to see what Jamie does. It's going to be very interesting to see if they can keep it going. But the formula is to run more than you pass. You got you got King Henry. Oh yeah. Oh Joe, look at the games how they've been winning. They've been blowing teams out. Yeah. The man has been running. Wow. And you give him 11 carries. I don't know what they told you. They had 21 carries as a team when normally the Ravens are 30 35 40 carry team What do they have go back look at the Raven what they have against a Tampa what they have many carries they have against Dallas

But I get it if you put when you behind, I think they fell behind two scores Cincinnati, but they fell behind because, you know, they they they throw in the ball dilly dallying around. Right. And who the Ravens got next? They had 30 curves against Tampa. How many have against Dallas? They had to have 35, 40 against Dallas because they ran them off a damn near 275 yards.

But that recipe, look, I understand. Look, Lamar is an MVP. Yeah. We know he could throw the ball, but I think if what are you trying to do? You try to prove a point in the market, throw the ball or you trying to win a championship? Because they are not mutually exclusive. Oh, Joe. Yeah, they're not.

I guess Dallas, they had 45 caries against the Cowboys. Well, you know why, you know why it was 45 character. They can't get, they can't stop the guy. I didn't run here. They couldn't stop a guy. They have no, Oh Joe, you average in six yards of carry on 21 carries. What the run game also does, if you know you have a weak defense, running the football

helps you keep their ass off the field. The weakest part of the Ravens is what Ocho? Their defense. What keeps them off the field Ocho? Running the football. Look, I'm not Pythagoras, I'm not Einstein, but I know if I got a weak area, I'm going to stay away from that. I'm going to play to my strong suit because if I throw the ball, if I get off the field too many times, I'm going to put the defense back

on the field. They're tired. First of all, they're not the greatest defense, even when they're fresh. Yeah. What happens with a defense that's not very good gets fatigued Ocho? Make mistakes baby. You get beat. No way should Cleveland run the ball more than the Ravens. If anything, it should be about the same. If anything, it should be about the same. Well, if Nick Chubb, coming off that serious injury, had five more carries than Derrick Henry.

That'll tell you a lot. The Volume Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.

Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.