Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: Jameis Winston falls short, Christian McCaffrey out, Belichick believes in Rodgers

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to Jameis Winston throwing for 4 TDs and 497 yards but falling short for the Cleveland Browns vs. Bo Nix and the Denver Broncos on Monday Night Football. Later, Unc and Ocho discuss San Francisco 49ers RB Christian McCaffrey heading to the IR with a PCL injury and backup running back Jordan Mason joining McCaffrey on injured reserve with a high ankle sprain, Bill Belichick saying he believes Aaron Rodgers will rebound in 2025 and much more!03:13 - Show Start03:30 - Intro06:00 - Browns v Broncos29:40 - Lamar Jackson leads pro bowl votes34:07 - McCaffrey’s season is over37:00 - Rodgers passes blame again48:30 - Bears head coach opening most sought after54:30 - Dionte Johnson invisible with Ravens58:25 - Thibideaux says NFL locker room should be meritocracy1:01:43 - Tyrod Taylor files eviction notice on Draya Michelle(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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are limited so please make sure you grab yours while supplies last. Y'all know what it is. We Bronco country. You go to the mile high, 5,280 feet above sea level. You know when you come up in there, it ain't an easy place to win. Look, Denver has a very good defense. Although not withstanding tonight, they gave up damn near 600 yards of offense, Ocho. That defense did. But it only matters when they needed to bow their backs,

they bowed their backs. But it's, and they got to win their backs, they bowed their backs. And they got to win thanks to Jamus. Y'all know who he is. This is who he is. He'll give you great numbers. Aiden, I mean, were you surprised? Cleveland, I mean, the Ravens had him. Remember Hamilton dropped that pick?

In the next play, what did Jamus do? Come back and throw the game, touchdown. Touchdown. The Broncos't let him off the hook. Like the famous, the Denny Green, rest your soul. They are who we thought they were, and we didn't let them off the hook. Pick six, when we talked about Ocho, we talked about that last pick,

it was second to the last pick six, well, McMillan got it. If you late with that out ball, Ocho. It's going the other way every time. And if you are late, it better be outside and going out of bounds. Yes. So, Jamus, give me Jamus stats.

I think he was three yards short of 500 yards. Hey, listen. He had an excellent game. He was throwing the ball. He should have had 500. And Joku dropped about six of them. Hold on, and he should have hit Judy on that first post in early in the game. He missed, he missed on a long one.

And then, you know, I had a question. I'm sitting here watching the game, right? And I'm thinking to myself, well, are they calling a different type of game plan when James is back there and when Joe, Joe Flacker was back there as opposed to a different game plan when Deshaun was back there? opposed to a different game plan when the Sean was back there because I'm trying to understand why the offense flowing so much more smoother

as opposed to when Flacco and James is back there as opposed to when goddamn the Sean was that I'm just I'm just curious. Don't start me lying. Oh Joe, I wish I could tell you. Hey, I'm talking about everything looks completely different. Everybody get everybody getting open. I mean, it just, it just, I can't explain it for my life and everything seems so condensed, so condensed when Deshaun was at quarterback, but either way, either way.

But the numbers that Jamies has been putting up ever since he's taken over for it, since Deshaun's gotten hurt. I mean, it's been, it's been really good. I mean, regardless of what their record shows, offensively, they've been putting up some crazy numbers. They have Ocho. And we look, there's no denying you don't win a national championship. You don't win a Heisman trophy. You don't win, become the number and overall pick. If you don't have talent and you can throw the football.

Jame's problem has always been turnovers. Yeah, that's his only bugaboo It's hard to be great. Oh Joe when you turn the ball over at the rate that he does Yeah, this he basically gave the Broncos think about it the Broncos got 40 what they can score 41 points Mm-hmm. He gave him two pick sixes. Yeah It's hard to overcome that. Yeah. And the defense, look, Broncos offense is pretty good. I mean, Bo Nicks is showing that, okay, I'm sure they're happy getting Bo,

because Bo has played really well. But you can't, Ochio, you can't turn the ball over. This is what I'm talking about, people. See, y'all got on me because y'all say, so look at the numbers. Look at Jame's numbers. What was the difference in the game? Turnovers.

Turnovers, yeah. You paid. Cincinnati yesterday, Ocho. You paid double. Three, he threw the three. Two things can be true. You can be a great player, have a great game, and still help your team lose the game

by turning the football over. Yeah. That's what Jameis did tonight. That's what, but see, y'all don't wanna do that. See, y'all don't really wanna have this conversation about Joe Burrow. Y'all don't wanna have it. I mean, listen, we enjoyed the conversation with it,

and just the difference is, the turnovers tonight by James were in control. They were in his hands. He's throwing the ball away, away to the opposing team. Two of Joe Burrows turnovers, actually three of them. He had no recollection of what was going on because other players were beat, beat the left tackle was beat twice. And it was a strip sack. Then Kam Heyward tipped the ball like that's out of his control.

That's what I call football. Sometimes the football guy is on your side. And that's what happened to us yesterday. At what point in time was the ball in his hands that is in his control? So so so if you so if I throw you the pass and you run it and the guy punches it out, that's not in your control. So, so, so if you, so if I throw you the pass and you run it and the guy punches it out, that's not in your control. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's on me. That's on me. So why is it on Joe Burrow? I mean, because you understand, you understand based on context and watching the game with your

eyes on what happened. You understand that. So, so in other words, so if Joe Burrow has the ball in his hands, right, they knock it out his hands. That's not a joke. He strips sack from behind while trying to make a play and make and go through his progression. I mean, what? Has a receiver or running, has a receiver or running back ever had the ball punched out from behind? Yes or no? Not no context. Yes or no? Yeah, of course. It happens. So that's not, But that's not on him

because he has no control over that. See, you try, you try, come on, you try. All right, okay, all right, I see, I see, I see what you're doing, but you right, okay. What about Ocho? You said Joe Burrow, the ball is in his hand, he has no control over- You watched the game, you saw it with a strip sack

when he's trying to look down the field and go through his progression. Yes. He's a white knocks the ball out. There's nothing Joe can do if the left tackle is getting beat soon as a guy. Hold on to the ball. Huh? Hold on to the ball. So all those all those peanut, all those peanut punches, that's that. Hey, that's not on the receiver. That's not on the running back.

Hey, they got no control on it. Okay, but anyway, let's get a little further. James was 34 and 58, 497. He was sacked three times. He had four touchdowns, three interceptions. He had a longer 70. Jerry Judy, 13 targets targets had their most catches And I'll get some former team his nine for 235 and a touchdown longer 70 Elijah Moore had

14 targets eight catches a buck 11. He played really well And Joku has 17 targets. He called nine passes for 52 yards He called nine passes for 52 yards. 17? He had 17 targets. And he got so frustrated, he tried to take himself out. If I could tell, if I could tell in Joku something, I'd say, bro, there are days like this, but you need to concentrate more.

He's not, if you watch him catch the ball, he's not a natural catcher of the ball. Right, right, right. He doesn't pluck the ball. Ocho, you and I, we pluck the ball. Yeah. Yeah. That's not him. If you watch him when he catches touchdowns,

he always tries to face the ball. If you notice when you throw it, he don't want to catch it like here. He want to do it like this. He wants to do it like this. Yeah. It's comfortable. If you watch him, don't look at his touchdowns.

He normally is on his back. Go watch that two point conversion he got a couple of weeks ago. It was the same catch that he had. He doesn't like to catch the ball at an angle. He likes to face the ball. So maybe he has one eye that's dominant. He might need to get that checked out

because you can't, Ocho, you can't get 17 targets and draw and they were in his hands, Ocho. It wasn't like, he gotta, you can't get 17 targets and draw and, and, and, and, and they were in his hands. Oh Joe, it wasn't like he got it. You gotta be better. You gotta, you gotta be better. You gotta focus. Get back, get back to the bait. The basics.

Hey, look at that thing all the way and find them laces, find the white on them laces and boom back to basic fundamentals and you touch it, then turn and go. Cause the thing is, oh Joe, what I tried to do at the tight end, cause I can talk Boom, back to basic fundamentals and you touch it, then turn and go. Cause the thing is, Ocho, what I tried to do at the tight end, cause I can talk to him, Joku, because that's play, he played the position that I played. I'm trying to pick the ball up as soon as I can out of the quarterback's hand.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. So that's how I'm trying to, I'm not waiting till the ball gets up on me and do like this. I'm trying to pick the ball up out his hand. Okay, I see the release. It gives me a kind of an idea. It's kind of like a baseball player at the crack of the bat.

He can kind of tell the trajectory of the ball and he kind of goes how hard he needs to go in the direction. So I picked the ball up by his hand. I have a pretty good idea of how fast the ball is coming and where I need to get to. And so I'm tracking the ball. You catch with your, you catch with your eyes. Your hands tracking the ball. You catch with your, hey, you catch with your eyes. Your hands just cradle it. You catch with your eyes.

And he's not, his eyes, something is off with his tracking because I've noticed that early, but like I said, he's not a natural catcher of the football, but there's no reason he shouldn't have a higher catch rate than what he has. But this was a very interesting game, Ocho. Cleveland, when you- It was a good game. You don't have anything to play for.

I hated playing teams like Cleveland because they throw effing caution to the wind. What do you know we got to lose, Ocho? We ain't won but three games. We ain't going nowhere. Also now, go ahead. You know what, also, I don't know if you, matter of fact, he'll see this because all the players watch these clips. That goddamn Denzel Ward, boy.

Boy, you the real deal, boy. You, I mean, Denzel Ward is the real deal. He's one of those that doesn't get the credit he deserves. Obviously watching him play tonight, seeing some of the plays that he make. Technique, dog. These textbooks sound on so many things. So much teaching tape watching him play. And you know how I feel about good DB play.

Tonight we had a good DB play. Tonight was very good DB play. I mean a few, few, few handsy calls that were called but outside of that man, Denzel Ward, beautiful game boy. I mean I salute you. Yeah, he got great feet and you know they were able to take advantage of the corners that came in there. They went right to Sutton, he ran the speed out. Number 17, bro, the guy's off you. Bo They went right to sudden he ran the speed out. Number 17, bro, the guy's off you. Bo's gonna raise up and throw you the ball. Bro, come on, man. See, that's the stuff I'm talking about, Ocho.

Even if you're not in there, you gotta watch when you're not in there what they're doing. Watch the starters. If I'm backing up Ocho, I'm watching to see what he does. Oh man, that corner's off. Man, look at Ocho. Carson just raised up andcho I'm watching to see what he does. Oh man that corners off man Look at Ocho. He just Carson just raised up and throw him on a one-step slant. Okay, if I get a similar situation

I'm expecting him to do the same thing right Sometimes you don't get to practice everything that you're gonna potentially see in the game You gotta be ready. Sometimes you have to pick up through osmosis. Yeah watching someone else do it Sometimes you have to pick up the osmosis. Yeah watching someone else do it Mm-hmm, but the Broncos when they had them and this is what I always tell people and I've always been a believer of this Be an offense or defense if you are what you say you are Can you get done what you need to get done when you absolutely have to you said I'm a top-flight defense Can you keep him at the end zone? Instead of giving him a touchdown, can you give him three?

If you're an offense, can you keep the ball? Can you get him field goal range or can you get a touchdown? Well, I believe the Broncos were a pretty good defense going into this game. And when they absolutely had to have it, what do they do? Pick six and another pick to keep him out of the end zone. Yeah. Offensively, if you are what you say you are,

go get that first down and don't give him the ball back. Go get in field goal range and win the game. That's the mark of anything that you would consider great. When you absolutely have to have it, can you go get it done? Right. Yeah, I mean, they look good. Goddamn Bo Nicks.

I never would have thought. I never would have thought based on how you looked at the beginning of the season. Obviously there's going to be some rocky, rocky starts. And then I hear him and Sean Payton going at it on the sideline to where he is now, his growth, his maturity as a quarterback, the plays he's making. He's obviously he's a dual threat as well, but he's one that chooses to throw the ball first. And then outside of that off script, he uses his legs to make plays and throw the ball downfield.

And when he has to run, he runs when necessary. He looked goddamn good, boy. Bo looked good, Corlin Sutton looked good. And man, hey, O'Shaun Payton, kudos to what you've done so far because last year, it was horrible. And the fact that you flipped everything that fast with a rookie quarterback, you get a thumbs up. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life.

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Follow The Big Take podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen. Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer stan. Anya and I met through hockey and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers. And on our new podcast, Moms Who Puck,

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and Entertainment on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of I Heart Women Sports. Hey, I'm Myles Gray. And I'm Jack O'Brien. We're the hosts of The Daily Zeitgeist. And we want to tell you about Myles and Jack got mad boosties and an NBA podcast from I Heart Radio. We nailed that.

This is a weekly podcast about all the amazing moments that keep all of us NBA fans coming back for more. Basically, if you love basketball and you like to laugh, listen to Miles and Jack got mad boosties an NBA podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Hypnotic. Ocho wanted to come over here. I know all the fans want to come over here. You can't say foot or ball. Because both of your teams lost. The Ravens lost and the Broncos. And Ocho, y'all ain't going to say nothing. But Ocho was like, man, oh, he was wanting to get me. He was wanting to get me. Oh, let me do my prep. Let me do my prep. Listen, actually, I wasn't even going to do it. I wasn't going to do it because I'm still feeling a little hurt about my bangles from yesterday.

You know, I haven't gotten over that. Y'all suck. Y'all suck. Man, relax, relax, relax, relax. We're the best four in the team in the NFL. We have the best four. There's no such thing. Okay.

Hey, listen. Yesterday, I went to therapy. There's no such thing. Okay. Hey, listen, yesterday I went to therapy. I went to therapy today. I went to therapy today to cope with the losing throughout the entirety of the season. Because I've been betting on us. I'm betting. I'm not losing. I'm not using logic.

I'm betting with my heart. You know, and that's what's wrong with me. You know, I'm leading with the wrong thing. I'm not using common sense. I'm bed with my heart you know and that's what that's wrong with me you know I'm leading with the wrong thing I'm not using common sense I'm using delusion and it's hurting it's hurting you know I'm gonna get over it. It ain't hurting me. I feel good. Of course it ain't hurting you cuz you're not a bangle fan. Whoa whoa whoa whoa how about I feel insulted. No I'm not I'm not well how you feel insulted you I mean, you just happy your team won. No worry about it. You will be home.

You'll be home. You'll be home before the end of December. I tell you what, I tell you what y'all do. I got a travel agency. Tell the guys to hit me up. I got great deals. Cabo, Jamaica, where y'all wanna go? Where y'all wanna go?

Y'all can go anywhere. Cancun, Port of Ardor, Tulum. Well, listen, if you got a good travel agent, make sure you do me a favor. Make sure you let the Broncos players know they're gonna be right with us about two weeks after the season over to. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Maybe a week, maybe a week if that. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Y'all are what? We're gonna be in the same place. We're gonna be in the same club, drinking the same drinks, listening to the same. I was told that the road to the AFC goes through Cincinnati.

The road, the playoffs not gonna even go through Cincinnati. Wait a minute. The AFC North doesn't even go through Cincinnati. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Y'all talking. Y'all over there bumping them gloves. Talking your ass off. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Wait a minute, this just happened to be an off year. This happened to be an off year for us. We will be back on track next year. You ever rode Amtrak? Yes! And you know sometimes Amtrak, it jumped the rails sometime. We jumped the rails this year. That's all. You jumped the rails? Next year we'll get back on track.

Y'all said that last year. We said that last year. Yeah you did. Who said it? You? You did. Me? last year we say that last year yeah you did who said it you did me oh oh we get a slow come on I don't know why my bangles get off to a slow start bro y'all won three games so if you got up to a slow start what the hell happened in October November I get okay September y'all got up to a slow start you only won one game

in September well hell you only got three wins since then, so what happened in October and November? I didn't say that. I mean, speaking of this year, I mean, historically, our defense is bad. It's very bad. It's very bad. And then, I don't even know how you fixed that.

I don't know, I don't know what you have to do to fix that. Offensively, you know, again, like you said, Joe Burrow has to play like effing Superman to overcome how bad our defense is. So yesterday, the turnover, it hurts even though to me, like I understand your point of view, it's him fumbling the ball, but there's situations that are out of his control and there's nothing he can do. The ball's in his hands and it's in his control.

Okay. I know, I know, I know. So let me ask you a question. I'm not going to with you. If I'm the pain in the face, if you're driving the car and you're running something out of my control, you're driving the car, right? And you riding with me and if somebody else and somebody hit us from behind, is that my fault? Did you stop us? Did you stop us? If somebody hit us from behind, is it my fault? Did you stop abruptly? Did you stop abruptly? No, I did not.

Okay, well no. No. Okay, thank you, see? Same thing. Same constant. But see, I was gonna, see, but you type of guy that, hey, funk, it was raining and my car slid, you driving too fast for conditions.

You see, that's in your control. Slow your ass down. for conditions. You see that's in your control slow your ass down That's why I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like that hypothetical because when it's raining my black ass is in the house So you've never driven in the rain? No never never I'm not for one I'm not getting my hair wet being outside because of the humidity in Miami. So I don't have I don't have time for that. But that was a Jared Judy throw shade at the Broncos before the game. My rookie year had a few drops. That was the biggest thing.

But the years after that, I feel like I wasn't getting too many that many opportunities to showcase my talent with all these different OCs and different schemes and stuff like that. So I really couldn't show my abilities and show my route running skills. It was just it just wasn't a fit for me. I agree. It just wasn't working over there. I felt like I was a way better player than they used me as.

I wanted to go somewhere that would use me, see my full potential and take advantage of it. He's absolutely right. Oh yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. They got down on him because he was dropping, he dropped some passes and he was kind of nicked. Yeah.

And you're right, for whatever reason, they had a lot of OCs, we had difficult quarterbacks in and out of the lineup. And I saw the guy that won the Balitnikov Award as a sophomore, the route runner extraordinaire. Extraordinaire, yeah he is. What I saw as a junior, his last game against Michigan, he went over 200 yards, I just knew,

I just knew it. Yeah. But for whatever reason, it didn't work. And that's okay. Sometimes, Ocho, you get into a relationship, it doesn't work with her. It doesn't work with him. You get this new gal, you get this new guy.

Yes, sir. And it's harmony. Yeah. That's not a knock on nobody. It just didn't work. And that's okay. Stop trying to figure out why it didn't. But look how good it is now.

He's somewhere, they believe in him. They gave him an extension. They're getting him the ball. He's showing his ability. He's great after the catch. He has tremendous route running skills. Oh, he can stop on the dive. he's showing his ability, he's great after the catch, he has tremendous route running skills, oh he can stop on a dime, he's 20. Oh yeah.

Bro. Yeah, it's all showing up. It's all showing up. Yes, yes. That's the thing that I've always talked about that I knew we could do and couldn't understand why he wasn't getting it done in Denver. Now obviously he goes to a situation in Cleveland where he's able to display that artistry, you know that art that I call route running.

And I'm happy for him. Judy, I know you're gonna see this. Matter of fact, I'm gonna call you tonight anyway. I'm calling every goddamn body tonight. Enjoy yourself, man. Keep it. One after another. Keep stacking them one after another.

Consistency. Stacking what? Huh? Stacking what? Being consistent. Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about wheezing. Oh, no, come on. You ain't got to do okay. I thought you were talking about stacking wins. Oh, no, wait, come on.

Uh-huh, you ain't got to do that. I thought you was talking about wins. It ain't talking about win, but just stacking them consistently from a personal standpoint as a receiver. And they get that, once you get that confidence up, boy, it's a wrap, boy. Put y'all, put Cleveland, Cincinnati record together,

y'all still out of the playoff. Woo hoo hoo! Put them together! Hey. That's that bad. The state of Ohio will. Boy, y'all still out of the playoff. Put them together. That's not bad. The state of Ohio will. Boy, y'all had a rough one. Ohio State got kicked at home. Cincinnati got kicked at home. Boy, look at him.

Boy, look at him. Boy, Ohio ain't doing well right now. You don't gotta kick a dog when he down, you know that. That's the best time to kick him, he right there. You don't have to kick a man when he down. That's the best time to kick a man. right there. You don't have to kick a man when he down. That's the best time to kick a man. He right there, right there by your foot. It hard to kick somebody standing up.

He on the ground, he right there. What better time to kick it? He down. Let me help you get up. Hey, bro, you shot out. Man, oh, man, look. I really wanted Jamus to get 500 though. I'm listening. I was so hopeful. Man, oh, man, look. I really wanted Jameis to get 500 though.

I'm listening. I was hoping, I said, man, I hope Judy have a good game to show what he could be. Oh yeah. But it wasn't going to be in Denver. He came back 235 outstanding. The Broncos got the win. It just goes to show you. And that's what I'm saying, people. Look at Jameis Knight, but he's undone by the turnovers.

Yeah. Turnovers will ruin a great game. We've seen basketball players have a great game, and then you turn the ball over, Ocho, on the last possession. You're down, or you tied. You turn it over, the other team go down there and they make a basket, ruin your night. In football, a baseball player maybe has two home runs,

drive in seven, but it was his error. So we gotta stop this notion because somebody had a great game, you look past everything else that might have gone into it. It's just more than about their stats. Yes, we like to have stats because that's why we keep the stats. But turnovers is also a stat.

And they can deck directly a tribute to wins and losses. Two things can be true. Somebody can play great, but have turnover that cost their team a game. Oh, Joe, Lamar Jackson leads all players in initial Provo voting. Lamar has received the most fan Provo votes of any player. Derrick Henry is second.

Next on the list is Saquon Barkley. Third on the list is Josh Allen. Fourth on the list, yeah, fourth on the list is Josh. Fourth on the list is Josh Allen. So Lamar is one, Derek Henry is two, Saquon is three, Josh Allen is four, and Jameer Gibbs is fifth. Are there any, is there a surprising omission to you? I mean, no, I mean, you look at everybody, look at everybody that you name and look

at their resume to date and what they've done so far this season. I mean, it's, it's in, it's in the right pick and order. It's in the right pick and order. I mean, some might switch Josh Allen and Lamar, but either way, it's all based on preference right now. If we were to have an MVP, I think Josh Allen might be leading that race. I think he would win too. So it all depends. And if it's fan voting, if it's player voting, it all comes down to preference, especially if it's pro-bow voting, because everybody that you just named,

regardless of order, is playing phenomenal effing football right now. So you can't go wrong no matter what. There's no Patrick Mahomes, there's no Travis Kelsey. For obvious reasons. I know they have a winning record, but they're not playing well from an individual standpoint.

As a team, yes. Individually, uh-uh. And matter of fact, Go ahead, go ahead. I don't even think they would be able to go to, they wouldn't be around to go to the Pro Bowl anyway. No. For me? They might be playing possum.

You never know. No, I mean, I don't think they would have earned it. Now, sometimes guys get to go on reputation. Yeah, name alone. Yeah, yeah. But if you look at it and say, this individual earned the right to participate in the Pro Bowl I'm gonna say no, right?

I'm gonna say no now you take three court first of all three quarterbacks go I don't like the way they do it now because they have the Pro Bowl before the before the Super Bowl So, you know normally there's the quarterback that makes the Super Bowl. He's gonna be a Pro Bowl player He's not gonna go so that's why you get these guys all of a sudden. Oh, he's a pro bowl. Bro, he was the ninth alternate. Nobody else wanted to go. I mean, if you want to put a tabo to what's where they like. Now you got nine and eight guys.

Come on, bro. Bro, they took the back up to Lamar from Baltimore one year to the Pro Bowl. The quarterback. Come on, Ocho. Yeah. You're taking a backup. You got 16 starters, he a backup, nobody else wanted to go, but that's on his resume. Right.

But you're right, I agree with everything you say. I don't believe Patrick nor Trav has earned the right. Brock Bowers should be the starting AFC at the Provo. At the tight end position. At the tight end position, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

He's playing really, really well. Really well. Yeah, and I'm trying to think. With the quarterback carousel at that. Yes, yes, yes. And they getting in the rock. But he deserves it. Man, hey, I thought when I watched him as a freshman,

I said, this guy can play in the league and he's really good. And then I saw him in sophomore year, I said, yeah, he'll talk to him pick. You can see it. His ability to track the football, his ability to run after the catch, he can catch it on the crowd.

I mean, he's fluid at his size. I mean, offensively, he has no weaknesses. If that's what you're looking for, these guys, you gotta be able to play in space. You gotta be a matchup nightmare, and he's a matchup nightmare for your safety, for your linebackers, for your corners, because of his size, because of his quickness.

He's really, really good. I mean, he has the potential to be historically good. That's how good he can be. He has that ability to be historically good. And you know, the rate is tied in, you know, you go back to Dave Casper that goes to the Cup Post, you know, Raymond Chester, they had Todd Christensen. They've had a history of having some-

They have some good ones. Yeah, yeah. I think Dave is in, I think Casper is in the hall too. I think, but that was a great game tonight. Christian McCaffrey, 2024 season started late and it appears to be over. McCaffrey's been placed on injury reserve due to a PCL injury he sustained in the 49ers loss to the Bills.

Shanahan added that McCaffrey's injury won't require surgery. He'll miss at least six weeks. With just five weeks left in the regular season, McCaffrey will not return to this campaign unless San Francisco mounted what appears to be an unlikely playoff run. And even if he ran it then, I'm not going to jeopardize a playoff run for next season. Because now Ochoa, I mess around and have this man and he mess around and mess that

PCL up, he has to have surgery. Now I'm going to have him, he's not going to be able to have an off season. He's going to have to rehab. Rehab, and that's what happened. You rehab it, you're not training. And so yeah, it looks like his season is over. And he didn't come to the middle of the season and I have a simple philosophy If you live into the season, you're gonna limp out of it.

You're gonna limp out of it. Isaac Guerrero, Gordinda? Guerrindo. Guerrindo is expected to be San Francisco lead back for the remainder of the season because what you call Watson is on our also, they just been, they just been hit with the injury bug. Oh Joe, they really have. Hey, that's unfortunate. Cause this, this is the time of season.

If you want to make any type of run or even have a goddamn chance, but one, you want to stay healthy, But to have this many people go out, I mean, it puts a damper in all your plans and whatever they may be. And hell, Shanahan might be just scratching it and just preparing himself to get everybody ready for next season. He just might be.

Because there's no way you can compete with Mason out, McCaffrey out. Yeah, Jordan Mason. Yeah, I mean, what you supposed to do? It's tough, man. Cause I guess, ain't nobody feeling sorry for your ass. No, no, no, never that. Ain't nobody feeling sorry for you.

Never that. But they definitely. The receivers, I yuk out, Divo doesn't seem like the same Deebo I'm used to seeing, you know, last year. Joann Jennings, offensively, has really been the only goddamn shining bright light, you know? Kido kind of been nicked.

Yeah. But you know, it's been one of those years. They didn't get off to the best start, and now the injuries are starting to mount. Yeah. And it's only you only going to be able to do so much. I get that next man up, but that's that's that's coach speak. That's a reason you next man for it.

Let's start there. Yes. Damn. Oh Joe. Yeah. After Jeff lost his seat to the Seahawks, Roger was asked about his pedestrian statistics. And he was quick to remind everyone,

it's not all his fault. There are 11 guys on the field. Sometimes it's my fault. Definitely multiple times today. And then sometimes the details aren't there in other spots. The Jets are three and nine. They're 0 and five when Roger has a chance to win the game late. He threw a other spots. The Jets are three and nine. They're 0 and five when Rogers has a chance

to win the game late. He threw a brutal pick six since 2022. Rogers ranks 30th out of 35 quarterbacks in total QBR. Ocho, at some point in time, bro, you just gotta say, it's me. Yeah. Most quarter, when Brady, see the thing is, Brady is quick, Manny, the great quarterback,

and I'm not talking about the average guy, I'm talking about the great, because I think Rodgers deserved to be mentioned with those guys. Right. They ask you about you. I'm not playing well, Ocho. Yeah.

You know what, Shannon, you're not having your typical year. Yeah, man, I ain't playing well. I'm not seeing the ball, you know. I just not playing well. It's, and I, you know, I need to take advantage of the opportunities when they present themselves. I think sometimes because I'm trying to force it,

because I feel like the opportunities that I normally would get aren't there. I'm trying to magnify that. So if I get an opportunity, I'm trying to make three opportunities and I can't. I'm trying to magnify that. So if I get an opportunity, I'm trying to make three opportunities and I can't. I'm trying to make everything a home run because I'm trying to make, I'm trying to show everybody that I'm still that guy.

That's all you have to do, Ojo. Why mention anybody else? They ask you about your numbers. Yeah, he's not gonna do that. He's not gonna do that. And actually they got the wrong people that are asking the questions. You know, if you got the right person

to ask the question, they're gonna ask the question in such a way where you have no choice but to answer it in a way that we want to hear directly. Not around the bush, not about your numbers. I'm talking about specifically, where you can't dodge, you can't beat around the bush, where you can't even miss anybody else

because the question is gonna be directly pertainedain to just you not even give you the angle to be able to Put others in it. Yes, we all know it's a team game, but bitch we ain't talk about the team right now We talk about you. Yes It's all in the questioning all in the questioning It's just it's just tough for him and it's hot Ocho, when you've been great for a long time, and all of a sudden you're not great anymore and you see your mortality. Yeah.

Man, that thing, hey. It's tough. He can't go get you the 300 yard games and them four touchdown games like he could in Green Bay. He can't just whip it. When last time you see him do this? When last time you see him do that? When last time you seen him do that? This discount double check?

Or you know, his favorite thing, he pump. Oh yeah, that little fist? Yeah, we ain't get that. We might get it next year. Well, he must be playing golf or something. Listen, wherever he gonna be playing. I know one thing, the Jets don't have no options right now. Him on the run, they still don't.

Even with him there, they don't have an option. Ocho, he's about to be 41. He's about to be 41. Yeah. What situation do you get better with age? Playing a professional sport at that age. I'm not saying that like when you know, Oh Joe, you know, you in your twenties

and you head towards your prime, these long passes prime. So when do you start to get better at that age? Yeah, you right. You right. You right. Shit, I'm still in my prime. I probably still play right now.

Now I think about it, but go ahead. Yeah, you can, 2K. You can. Coach Belichick believes Aaron Rodgers could easily rebound in 2025. He could easily rebound from that and be ready to play and have a good year next year. You look at all the quarterbacks in the league that are kind of their second teams and they're doing

pretty well. Russell, Gino, Sam, Donald, Baker, Mayfield. You go right down, Matthew Stafford, for that matter, Jerry Goff. These guys switch teams, they get into a different system, things get a little different. Whatever is the previous experience, it changes. When the guy has a long career and good career. Sometimes one season is just a bump in the road and not necessarily in. But here's the difference between Aaron Rogers. Tell me the expectation from those guys compared to him. Who said Russell? Who said Geno Smith?

The Seattle Seahawks was a quarterback away from the Super Bowl. Sam Darnall, there are super their quarterback away from the Super Bowl. Sam Darnall, they were a super their quarterback away from the Super Bowl. Minnesota, Baker Mayfield. Now I get Matthew Stafford. They put him in an ideal situation. Talon at the yin yang. So where is he going? Because at the end of the day, Ocho, I'm going to have to like forgo

potential for one year. The opportunity to develop a quarterback and move forward into the future. But one year, are you willing to do that, Ocho, based on what you've seen? A 41 year old quarterback. But you know how the owners are, right? You know how hard it is to find adequate quarterback play or quarterbacks that are just good, especially with a resume like that. And sometimes, you know what you're saying?

You know, we shouldn't even be looking about what you've done in the past is what have you done for me lately. But quarterbacks get the different type of grace as opposed to other positions out there. You're absolutely right. Different type of grace. And when you try to critique a quarterback,

their supporters and others say, bro, I'm not trying to take away what he's done. I can't, nor would I attempt to. He's still a four time league MVP. He's still a Super Bowl winning Super Bowl MVP. But what does that have to do with right now? How does he look right now? When you watch Aaron Rodgers?

Let me ask you this. I'm gonna take Rodgers off the back of his jersey and I'm gonna put Durnt, I'm gonna put Smith, I'm gonna put Kick-Lyter. Right. Are you saying, you know what, if that guy goes somewhere else, they can win a championship with him?

No, you're not saying that. It's just because what he once was, just because you were that, that doesn't mean you'll ever be that again. Right. Dang. I'm, I just love. So I'm just from, you think, you think he'll be back next year? And if he's be back next year?

And if he's not back next year, what other team, what would be a good spot for him to actually go? I don't know. I don't know. Because in order, Ocho, in order to like, why am I gonna delay, why am I gonna kick the can down the road for one year? Oh, Joe, I need to get my quarterback. Right.

Say what you want about Sean Payton. He knew Russell Wilson wasn't a good quarterback. I'm not willing to kick the can down the road again. I'm gonna get my quarterback in here right now and I'm gonna try to win. Now I'm gonna take my lumps. I think the Broncos are better than they thought they would be.

I thought they just wanted to get, they want to get his feet wet, wanted to get going and say, okay, next year, we're going to be able to contend for the division. But Bo Nicks is ahead of the curve. And so with that being said, that was the right move. Ocho, if you know the guy that you have on your roster isn't going to, is not in your future plans, it is better to move on.

Yeah. So the question is, I bring him in where? These quarterbacks are coming out. You got Shador coming out. You got Cam Ward coming out. You got Jackson Dart coming out. You got Carson Beck coming out. You got Jackson Dart coming out. You got Carson Beck coming out. You got these guys coming out.

Okay, if you want to say I want a veteran presence for a year, but this notion that Aaron Rodgers now puts you in a situation to win a Super Bowl, that's a null and void. Nah. That's null and void. Mm-mm, but they would use that narrative, use it as a crutch simply because of who it is

and what he's done. Again, certain individuals are given a different type of grace. And I'm not going to get into all that, but that's a whole other story. Yeah. So that's all I'm saying, Ocho, is that. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's, that's all I'm saying. Oh, Joe is that, uh, um, cause at the end of the day, it comes down to consistency. The quarterback got to be consistent. You can't have these waves. You can't be up and down. Look at the quarterbacks that win the championship. Look at, look at them in their Superbowl season. Look at them in their Super Bowl season. And he's all over the place. I mean, the numbers yesterday were bad, but he hadn't played well this year. He had a game or two that he like, okay. He's showing flashes of brilliance yet again.

And that's what I tell people. Osho, as you and I was older, we could put together a game, but we couldn't run them back to back like we could in our prime. Hey, give your boy that thing, let your boy to aid. I can't, big play shake and take the game over. Right. I could, but they were spaced out once every month, once every six weeks.

I couldn't put them together back to back to back. Now, that's true. I put them together back to back now, you know? Yeah, something else. Toad, look at Toad. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life.

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creating what team president Karen Warren's believe will be the most highly sought after opening in the NFL in 2025. Warren cited the fans, tradition, cap space, draft capital, young roster, including the presence of Caleb Williams to back up his statement. When you look at all of these elements, as we sit here today, we are in a huge, we are in a unique situation. This will be one of the most coveted jobs in the National Football League this year.

And Ryan Poles and I need to work hand in hand together to make sure we bring that to life. Not only from the head coach standpoint, but from the entire staff standpoint. The Bears joined the Jets, Saints as team to fire their head coach in the season this year. Ocho, do you believe the Chicago Bears will be one of the most coveted jobs from a head coaching staff, from a head coaching position in the NFL?

I think so, I think so. Simply because you have a quarterback. You have a quarterback that you can work with. The quarterback has a foundation, you have something that you can work with, depending on who comes in there. What type of offense are you gonna have for that, for said quarterback?

Can you find a way to keep DJ Mo happy? Can you find a way to keep Kenny Allen happy? Adding some more pieces to that team offensively, I think it could be a nice job. It all depends on who the coach is. I told you what I told you, I told you what I said and what I like, hell, I like God damn Bill going there. Hell, I like God damn Bill going anywhere.

I think all Bill needs is a God damn quarterback. An organization like Chicago would be perfect for Bill. They're going to give you the keys and allow you to do everything you need to do to allow them to compete in the NFC again. You know? Is he going to be able to relate to today's player? Maybe be the Bears of old. Hell, maybe be the 85 Bears once again. You never know. Is he going to be able to relate to today's player? Listen, one of the greatest things in life that God has given everybody is the ability to adapt to their surroundings in the areas that they're in.

I'm sure he will be able to. How malitable has he been in his career? Why wouldn't he do it in New England then if he's so easy to adapt? in his career, why wouldn't he do it in New England then? If he's so easy to adapt. I can't answer that for him. Well, you just said that he has the ability to adapt. And I just ask you, why didn't he adapt?

Well, listen, you have to be able to adapt to have that kind of success at anything you do. What did he adapt to? He was rigid, hard-line, what did he adapt to? It worked, but we're in different times. It worked. But we're in different times. I think Bill understands we're in different times. In order for you to have that same success, some of the things that you're used to doing,

you got to do them different. I think he understands that by looking at the landscape and seeing, wait, you know what? I got to approach it differently if I get the opportunity to be a head coach again. I can see that. Because this is how today's players are. This is how I have to coach.

Because now he's forced to do that. Yeah, sometimes that's what it takes. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes your back has to be against the wall. I agree. For you to see things differently and change your perspective in the way you do shit. I agree. Yeah, my back, your back perspective in the way you do shit. I agree. I agree.

My back, your back, bitting is the wall before. Yeah. It might not have nothing to do with the game of football. My back has been against the wall before. It ain't had nothing to do with the game of football. I know. Okay. If I don't straighten this shit up, if I don't straighten this shit up right now,

you already know what the end result is. I still believe the greatest believe the greatest key to survival is adaptability. Yeah, you got to. You got to. It's not size, it's not strength, it's not speed. It's being able to adapt to the ever-changing environment around you.

And there are two things that can get in the way of that. Ego and your pride. Ego and your pride can get in the way of that. If you're able to compartmentalize and set those aside and understanding whatever that end goal may be, and it doesn't just have to be football. You don't have to be just coaching them, just life in general.

Setting that pride of your side for the betterment of whatever end goal you trying to reach it a hill I thank you if he's gonna have to be that key You have to be that kind of that coach Belichick that's on the inside the NFL And he can't be so rigid. He can't be so structured and he can't be so what he was in New England First of all, he doesn't have Tom Brady running interference for him anymore, right? Because Tom was the Patriot way. Yeah. You heard the guys.

Bill was our coach, but we played for Tom. Mm hmm. Hold on, let me change my camera getting blurry. Hello. They're still blurry. Hold on. Whoa. Man, get your skeletal ass face up back up by the camera, man.

Damn. Man, back up. Yeah, that's better. Yeah. You need to shave too. Huh? You got razor bumps, I see them. Nah, I ain't got no razor, there ain't no razor bumps.

Yeah you do, yeah you do, yeah you do. No I don't, no I don't, don't do that. Yeah you do, yeah you do. I ain't even no Skeletor had razor bumps. That's all clean everywhere. That's Skeletor. Nah, that's all clean everywhere. And Council Gray's called. Hey, this is all clean, I just Castle Grayskull. Hey, hey, this is all clean.

I just need a haircut. Once I clean that up, put a little sea, you got your new sea breeze? You know what a sea breeze is? Yeah, I knew a sea breeze, nah. Hey, put a little sea breeze, but I look good. Y'all remember he man in a Skeletor, Castle Grayskull. Yeah.

Yeah, I used to watch that on TV. I used to watch that on TV. Ain't nobody, people in the chat, they too young for that. Yeah, they are actually. Since the Panthers traded Deontay Johnson to the Ravens in October, Johnson has all been, has all but been invisible, Ocho.

He's played 39 snaps in five games. Sunday marked the new low. After losing Rashard Bateman to injury, John Harbaugh's staff chose to go with Tyler Wallace over Johnson, resulting in a healthy scratch. The situation is strange. Johnson was acquired near the trade deadline to provide the ravers reinforcement at the receiver position,

but he can't get on the field right now. Harbaugh didn't help matters much, remaining vague about when asked about Johnson today. At this time, I'm going to have to wait. There are some moving parts that they're going to have to figure out and explore and see where we're at. It's the best I can do in the fairness of everybody. Ocho, what's going on, bro?

I mean, I don't think he knows the offense yet. He doesn't know the offense yet. I think obviously Lamar has to trust him to be able to have him in the offense. For one, he's getting there late. There's only so much you can probably be able to do. I mean, the receivers, they really are set at receiver anyway. You know, it's not like they throw in the ball a hundred times a goddamn game.

They are a running team and they throw the ball second. So the need for another receiver, especially one like Deontay Johnson, I don't think that was a great fit for him anyway. That wasn't a great fit for him. You know, he's a route runner and you know, you know, twitchy and in and out and being able to, you know, create separation and all that. That's just not the right offense for him. I don't think it is the right fit. And it's just an unfortunate situation for him. But Ocho, can we be honest? Yeah.

Is there ever a right fit for a wide receiver in Baltimore? No, it never has been because they've always been. A run dominant team. A run dominant team, yeah. Yeah, but he had no choice about where he went. Yeah, he got traded, but that's the thing. So I can only show you so much. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, but he had no choice about where he went. He got traded, but that's the thing. So I can only show you so much

because you run the football. And with that being said, so, and you brought me in, oh Joe, it's not like I'm familiar with this system. It's not like I played in the system in Carolina and this is the exact system that you're running here. And so it's gonna be, if you notice, I thought they would give, you see what they did with D-Hob. They gave him a little bit, they gave him a little bit more.

They gave him a little bit more. They gave him a little bit more. Now he can eat all the- It's different. It's a different offense. And D-Hob fits that system in general. So it's easy to string him along little by little and give him bigger packages as time goes on over over there.

You already got Bateman. You got Zay Flowers. You got Aguilar. You got likely got got them. I mean, they they already they feel they feel. So where do I fit in? Why did you even trade me? That's that's what I would be asking myself.

Honestly, you know what I would do? I would ask them to release me. I would ask them to release me, to allow me to go somewhere where they're going to actually need and use me in the specific skillset that I do have. Deontay Johnson is good at what he does. It does not fit that Raven system.

Ocho, he got traded from the Steelers. He got traded from Carolina. Right. Now there's some issues in Baltimore. Now you know your next stop is probably at the league. Okay. So you gotta be careful when you talk about release. Okay, I see what you mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on now. We talk about it in a year's time. Yeah. Pittsburgh, Carolina, Baltimore. Yeah. At some point in time, now the common time, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Baltimore. At some point in time, now the common denominator with Pittsburgh, Carolina, and Baltimore is him.

So everybody, everybody, everybody don't get that Daniel Jones treatment. You see? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm glad I'm glad I'm uh, cave on. Fibberdough says NFL locker room should be a function of meritocracies. When asked about players voice in their opinions. If you make plays, you have a voice. If you don't make plays, you don't have a voice. Well, that's kind of how it is.

And that is anyway. What the hell? Yeah. That's exactly how it is. And it's always been that way. That never changed. Yeah. Now, sometimes great players don't want no voice.

They just want to go do their job. Yeah. But what we can have is guys that ain't want no voice. They just wanna go do their job. Yeah. But what we can have is guys that ain't making no plays thinking he got a voice that dominates the locker room. Man, sit your butt down. Yeah. You always got one of them on every team though too, man. You do, you do.

You always got one of them on every team. Yeah, for sure. And, but Tim, I mean, bro, that's, that's, that's how it is. That's how, that's, that's the way it's kind of been. That's those guys that make plays, guys that are your better players. Those are the guys that coaches

gonna look to and ask questions. Now sometimes, you know, coaches know, I mean, the city is only so big, even New York. I don't care. Coaches and the team gonna find out what you be doing so if you at bars and you hanging out every night they gonna know now right the NFL know what everybody's doing in season and offseason they know who they know your girls they know everything was it which

is so funny I mean I'm not gonna get into that, because I'm not into, it's not like I'm exposing anything, but players think they're getting away with stuff on, outside of the field. They're not. They little do they know, but they know, hey, I don't,

and listen, it's some stuff, not that I would do anything wrong, but they brought it to my attention and what I was doing in the off season. I'm way in God damn Miami. Well, how the to my attention and what I was doing in the off season. I'm way in goddamn Miami. Well, how the hell you know? I'm on vacation in the off season. I can come back, I can come back for mini camp

or training camp or off season program. Man, they can run down everything I did. Miami, it wasn't even no goddamn social media back then. So how the hell y'all know? They know, hey, they know how much money you spending, what you paying on your stuff, how much you owe. Yeah. Now the team is gonna pretend like they don't know

because they don't wanna like, well y'all didn't know why did y'all take it for, well we didn't know. They know everything. Everything. That's one of the reasons, I hate to throw this little tidbit out here. That's why they never have a reason

paying us all these millions and millions and millions of dollars, because they gonna get it back anyway. He he he he he he he. They gonna get it back anyway. They ain't trippin'. Yeah. They got the trippin'. Yeah. They got the best, all them retired FBI agents

and all that, they go work for the sport, they go work for leagues. Yep. All these detectives that when they retire from the NFL, they go work for the leagues. NFL, NBA, MLB, that's what they do. And these guys are really good. Yeah.

Tyron Taylor has reportedly filed an eviction lawsuit against his ex-girlfriend, Drea Michelle. Whoa, eviction? Hold on. Who is refusing to leave the house he paid for. The relationship, which ended a few months ago, initially seemed amicable, with Taylor buying a home for Drea and her family while they were together. That's romantic. The two reportedly had an agreement.

Taylor would pay for the home, but Dre would rent it from him with plans to purchase it outright, eventually making her the new owner. Okay. However, the breakup threw a wrench into those plans. Shortly after parting ways, Dre moved on on with NBA player Jalen Green, with whom she shares a child with. Oh, that's young boy from Houston, huh? That is correct.

Hey boy, he nasty with it too, boy, he nice. The development seemed cause Taylor to renege on their agreement, igniting a contentious battle over the home. The situation escalated when Dreya, who was out of town on a business trip, received a frantic call from her nanny, saying that the sheriff's department

had shown up at the home, claiming they were there to enforce an eviction notice. Oh! Ocho, what's going on here? I don't know, I don't know, but listen, listen, oh my, boy, this is good, huh? this is good. This is a lot of stuff to unpack But if we have an agreement right while we're together and we break up now Based on that agreement you're supposed to be renting from me while we're together

I got the place for you But you're gonna rent for me until you're ready to purchase or buy at any point if we break up, right? and I bought you that. I mean, when you want to leave anyway, and then, you know, no disrespect. You move on, we break up and you with somebody else and you have a child with that individual. But you get to be in the house that I pay for. I would have got on at the house.

Well, come on, man. And that's what I'm looking at from my point of view. I agree with you saying. Once you have a child from somebody else, right? Then you become his responsibility. Anything I got going on, especially if my name is on that lease,

if my name is on them deeds, then there should be no reason why you shouldn't want to exit that property anyway. Well, I guess her argument is, says, I'm renting it from you with the thing is that I'm gonna purchase it. So whatever my circumstances are after that, that's none of your concern. I'm gonna buy the house. Oh, shit me. None of my who? Shit me. The devil is alive. Oh, so you're asking somebody else to put meat on your ex.

Hey, the devil is- You're asking somebody else to put meat in the house. Once somebody put meat on your ex. Hey, the devil is- You asking somebody else to put meat in the oven. Once somebody put meat on your eggs and she gets pregnant, you are no longer my responsibility. Ocho, she wasn't asking you to be her responsibility. She's gonna buy the house. You got to get up out my stuff. No.

My name is O'Neil. Ocho. My name is O'Neil. Ocho, nah. You ain't gonna be getting out there, shalom from somebody else, have a child with them, and then bringing the child under the roof that I... Come on.

Okay. Okay. She said we had a verbal agreement that I was going to rent the house. Is it on paper? Is it on paper? Sometimes verbal agreements are enforceable. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis,

author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's

newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. The forces shaping markets and the economy are often hiding behind a blur of numbers. So that's why we created The Big Take from Bloomberg podcasts to give you the context you need to make sense of it all. Every day in just 15 minutes we dive into one global business story that matters. You'll hear from Bloomberg journalists like Matt Levine. A lot of this BIM stock stuff is is, I think, embarrassing to the SEC.

Amanda Moll, who writes our Business Week buying power column. Very few companies who go viral are like totally prepared for what that means. And Zoe Tillman, senior legal reporter. Courts are not supposed to decide elections. Courts are not really supposed to play a big role in choosing our elected leaders. That's for the voters to decide. Follow the Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen. Hey, everyone. I'm Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer

stan. Anya and I met through hockey and hockey player and now a full Madison Packer stan. Anya and I met through hockey, and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers. And on our new podcast, Moms Who Puck, we're opening up about the chaos of our daily lives between the juggle of being athletes, raising children, and all the messiness in between. We're also turning to fellow athletes and beyond to learn about their parenthood journeys and collect valuable advice advice like FIFA World Cup winner Ashlyn Harris.

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And I'm Jack O'Brien. We're the hosts of The Daily Zeitgeist. And we want to tell you about Miles and Jack got mad boosties and NBA Radio we nailed that this is a weekly podcast about all the amazing moments that keep all of us NBA fans coming back for more Basically, if you love basketball and you like to laugh listen to miles and Jack got mad boosties an NBA Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Hypnotic. Hey, you trippin'.

Do you hear what you're saying? Yeah, Ocho. I'm trying to, Ocho, I understand how difficult it is. Okay, we were together. I'm renting you the house. You let somebody else come up in the house that you and I shared that you're renting. Put that thing on you. You have a child with them.

And now you say, hey, everything. You say everything in status quo, I want to buy the house. I'm feeling some type of what I do. I do, Ocho, I'm feeling some type of way. But if I gave you my word, Ocho, I am, this is how I am, Ocho, if I gave you my word. Man, man, man, nigga, please.

Don't tell her, God damn you gave me your word. Hey, man, Ocho, hey, don't piss me off over here tonight, now, now I'm gonna cry. Listen, I was crying last night, Now you about to piss me off. I don't care. I don't care about no word. You better take that motherfucker back. She get pregnant from somebody goddamn else

and living up in your shit with somebody else child. Hell no. Oh, Joe. Hell, hell, hell no. Hell no. No, listen, I'm one, I'm for everything. I love everybody. I give any and everybody grace.

But at some point you got to draw the motherfuck- God forgive me for cursing. At some point you got to draw the line. Because now you're taking advantage of me. Now you're taking advantage of me and my situation. You're taking advantage of knowing that I'm nice. No, come on, man. Hell, hell, hell no.

Hell, what? Lemme ask you a question. Hell, whoa, wait, wait. That's my place. My name is on the deed. You left somebody else in my stuff and then you let him, let his swimmers get up in there, get you pregnant, and then you wanna bring the baby

from somebody else in the place. Oh, hell no. Man, man listen it's bad listen it's bad enough man you can do your thing that's that's one thing you know you we break up you leave you with somebody else and y'all doing your thing. That's cool. I ain't tripping on that Oh, don't my place Ocho bring the baby to have Ocho what should have happened once they broke up You got to go once you let her live there And she she now we're not gonna race on that's the grace part

That's the part of being graceful because of somebody that you once cared about. That's the grace. That's the grace that Tyra Taylor was extending to Miss Miss Miss Michelle. You know what? I really cared about you and I loved you at one point, but things that work out, work out between you know, but I'm not going to let you, I'm not going to leave you by the wayside. I'm going to let you stay here. But now, whoa, things turn. Yeah.

Things turn. You had somebody part the motherfucking seat like Moses and gave you a child, you birthday child. So the situation has changed from that point on. Don't play with me. Don't take my word. Weakness you man. Oh boy, put that baby gravy on her.

What you mean? Why would you be mad? You're broken up. You're not mad at that point. But OK, we're going to sell the house. You're taking my kindness for weakness. No, you said you you said you didn't care. That old boy put that baby gravy on him. Go ahead and sell the house. No, what is his job to get you a house. What you talking about?

He gonna get us that house. He gonna buy this house for me. That's the house. He gonna buy this one. Now see, Ocho, you being petty now. You don't want to sell the house. You just being nasty, Ocho. You being ugly. No, you being ugly, Ocho. I got a question. Hold on, hold on. If that's the case, if he was to fill the house. You just be a nasty old Joe. You be an ugly. No, you be an ugly old Joe. I got a question. Hold on, hold on. If that's the case, if he was going to get the house, he would've got it by now. What we wait on?

He just got that new extension. He got some money now, old Joe. They got a child together. Shouldn't they be living together or no? He live there. He live there. He in Houston playing. So when he come to LA, he'd be there.

Oh, shit. Damn. That's, that's crazy. That's, that's the only thing I'm saying. I get what you're saying. Yeah. Once we break up, you're gonna have to vacate the premises. Right.

That's all I'm saying. And now we don't run into this problem because it's not like you're expecting her not to have somebody, she's an attractive lady. So obviously she's gonna get somebody and where she gonna go? She can't always go to his place. She can't always go to the hotel.

She's gonna bring him, she's comfortable enough to bring him back to her place. That's my only argument is that once y'all broke up, you should say, Dre, you're gonna have to leave. So initially, right away? Yes. Okay, you're right, you're right. But again, look at the grace.

You know, I once loved you. You see how they take your kindness for weakness? I once loved you so I don't have no problem with you continuing to rent until you find a situation where you can move yourself out. What Tina Turner say? What's love got to do with it? It never does.

It never does. Wait, let me finish before you even go to it. When it comes to the other species, the grace speech is one of God's greatest gifts to not just Earth, but to man as well. It's always conditional. It'll never ever be true love. Ever. I don't care what nobody say.

It's always conditional. Fellas, remember that. Listen to me. Always. Because if at any point you are unable to provide what she fell in love with but things happen to change Yeah, okay Okay, tell me tell me so many love Tell me show me I love

If you lose your ability to provide or you lose that job see how long she stick by you All right, that's but see that's that's why I don't get Ocho. Well, we break up and we stay, well, I'm still, I'm still in the apartment, cause you, you, you just asking for trouble down the road. Yeah. Yeah. That's all, that's all I'm saying. And I get it. And I get, you look, you try to be generous. Right. You, you, you really, Ocho. And you're right, people take kindness for that. And it's just that I just felt that if that was the case, like once we break up, just go ahead and move on. I'm gonna move on, you move on,

and then everybody gonna be happy. But once you let it go on and then you have people start coming in and out. Nobody gonna be happy. Yeah. But once you let it go on and then you have people start coming in and out. Hey, just think about that though, On. That just like, like sit back and think about that. I'm giving you the grace to stay in my place even though we are broken up

and my place with my name on the deeds, you move on, but you got somebody else in my shit. Like logically think about that real quick. But she said theoretically I'm paying you rent. I mean if you pay a rental department, you gonna let the landlord come down there and say you can't put no meat in nobody of it Hey you point great you put baby gravy on somebody like I'm paying three thousand four thousand, whatever I don't know Look, I'm just making like guys. I'm just throwing out a number so I don't want people like, you know I'm just throwing out a number. So I don't want people to say, I'm just throwing out a number. You paying X amount of dollars, you're not gonna let the landlord tell you who you can and can't have over.

So that's all I'm saying. I think for me, the mistake that was made is that when they broke up, they didn't really break up. Because when you break up on children, you gotta separate. Because if you keep hanging around, you gonna have feelings involved. Right, right, right, right. And then some of that, Ocho, you gotta separate. Because if you keep hanging around, you're gonna have feelings involved. Right, right, right, right.

And then some of that, that's how people get hurt. Just move, just move on. Make a clean break. Because I don't know if maybe they was like, hey, we taking a break, and there will be some point in time, they'll reach some level of reconciliation. Right, right, right.

But here's the thing, the longer you go, because here's the thing. We start here, Ocho. Yeah. As days pass, this here gets wider and wider. Now, look, you see what's in there. Look at my hands get wider. Right. That's an opportunity for something else to come in between. Right there. Wait, wait, go back a little bit. Go back. Go back. Go back. Right there. Right there. Right there. Right there. Right there. Right there. Right there, right there, right there. See, see that, that, that, that small space area right there? Mm-hmm. That space right there, when you're apart, that's the space I call Considio Bitch Fucked. Yeah, that, that, that, that little, that little small junction, when you go from here, but right here? Yeah, that's, that's the space of Considio Bitch Fucked. Excuse my language. Nah, Ocho, she ain't gonna do it like that though. If she love you, she'll wait a minute. No, no, no, I'm talking, I'm not,

no, I'm talking about, I ain't talking about, no. No, I'm saying if she loved, well, I don't know how, listen, because they did a great job, they did a great job of keeping it secret. I didn't know they had broken up. Oh, okay, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, love is conditional. You hear me? Yeah. Now you've got enough experience. You got enough experience to know.

You got enough experience. I don't say he didn't need to preach to you. You've been through you've been through it. You've been through a lot. You know, I've been through rodeo. I done been around the block 7-11 times. I'm not here to preach and I'm not talking about my situation specifically, but I'm just saying in general for better context for the people that are watching in general. Like I was born at night, not last night. You know, but you know, and it is, let me see, how do you say it? Things are good, for the lack of better words or phrases to use.

You good, yo, you good, huh? Hey. Y'all been talking, y'all been communicating, I know. Hold on, time out. A long mountain to climb. Oh, you good, huh? Hey. Y'all been talking, y'all been communicating, I don't. Hold on, time out. A long mountain to climb. It might be worse than Mount Everest. But you know, like, you know, an old man put it.

Edmund Hillary went up Mount Everest without the breathing apparatus that they have currently. So it can be done. Well, yeah, it can be done, but I got asthma. Hey, that's okay. I played my whole career with exercise-induced asthma. For real? Yeah, got an inhaler and everything.

Yeah. Keep it on me. Hey, that was a good, hey, I didn't know that. That was, God damn, that was a good topic. Me, Ocho, I love. But that's taking someone's kindness. It is. Weakness, come on now.

Ocho, for me, at this juncture, I'll walk away. You will? And just leave the house with your name on it? No, no, no, no, no, no, Ocho, no. I'm not gonna leave the house. Oh. Maybe this is, hey, this is what the house is value at. Right.

Give me that. But hold up, hold up, hang on now. You gonna get, hey, I'm is what the house is valued at. Right. Give me that. But hold on, hold on a minute. You gonna get, hey, I'm gonna put the house up for sale. So when he's supposed to go when he come to LA? No, no, no, no, no, no. That ain't his house. He don't live there. He purchased that for her.

He got the house. Yes, it's to my understanding that he- You see how nice that is? Yes! Hey, in this economy, you got somebody buying you a house, you know how hard it is to find a, excuse me, you know how hard it is to find a dude that's willing to buy you a house

and then let you keep it once y'all break up! Come on! Now you making my point. That should have been, as soon as they broke up, Ocho, you got, you gonna pay. You got me here sweating shit. Hey, I get it I get it buying a house Well, you can't you can't even get dudes to get you a cup of coffee out here

You gotta do by your whole house and you want to play? mesh man, I Yeah Okay Okay, listen Man, I, yeah. Okay. Okay. Listen, I. Yeah, you know. Y'all got my dog, Ocho hot.

Y'all got my co-host hot about this. Listen, one of my favorite phrases is always, always has been, I mean, Sanderson High School, she's never yours in just your turn. That goes in all situations. Everyone has an expiration date No matter how long no matter how long. Oh, I'm so in love. Man, please Everything is for me. Man, I ain't finna let Ocho taint me.

No, I'm not trying to taint you. I ain't trying to taint you. I'm trying to find you somebody because hey listen No matter what's happening. No matter what goes on no matter what the hell I say on this bitch, February is still around the corner. Yeah. I'm going. I'll be there. I'm walking down somebody motherfucking aisle. You not hearing me?

Yeah, we going to New Orleans, so you be walking down the aisle of that plane. We going to New Orleans, both folks. That's the best time we gonna be walking down. You know what? I feel so good. I don't know what it is. Just life and everything is just going so well.

It's just, you know, been ups, little downs here and there, but the good outweighs the bad so much, I can't even be upset. Yeah. I can't even be mad. Ocho, I think you and I are saying the same thing. I think they get the house, he gets her a house, he's like, okay, I got this, and you stay here,

you can rent the place from me. Yeah. And with the agreement. And that's the thing, we're gonna go to court. And see, this is why I hate court because nobody get pleased but the lawyers because you paying 500, 750,000 dollars, 1500 dollars an hour and them hours are cumulating, trust me.

And somebody doesn't pay a lot of damn lawyer fees over the last year and a half. Yeah, man. Yeah. A lot. It's bad when you get the system involved, man. You just wasting your money there. And then, you know,

cause the lawyers that we deal with, they want a quarter of a million retainer. And they start building off that. Yeah. And before you know it, they call you, hey, they send an email. They need another 150. They need another 150. They need another 250.

And before you know it, you at 750. And now guess what? Now you got investigators that they charge you $250 an hour. And so before you know it, hey, in six months, a million dollars. Just like that. Oh yeah. But it's love, huh?

It's love, love, love costs. Man, I'm just trying to tell you, I'm talking to somebody that has gone through it. Yeah, listen, you ain't got to tell me, there have been many examples before you, there will be some after you, and there was some before you. Love costs, and when it ends, you know what?

They taking half with them because it would never love to begin with. It was always conditional. What can you do for me? At any point, the situation for the woman that you're dealing with, when the situation is low, longer, convenient, and the opportunity isn't beneficial. Let me see that love then. Wait, it's easy to love when everybody's happy and when happy and everything going and she getting what she want and you getting what she want.

Yeah, the love. Oh, I'm so happy. Yeah. Okay. How let me when that hurricane come through, how let me when that storm come through, how let me when I'm down. If I ever have one of those phases where I'm down, you know, God, God, God, hoping and willing that never happens.

Let me see the love then. Man, it's easy, it's easy to love when everybody fucking happy. It's easy to love when the money coming in. It is, it is. Easy. I just, I just, hey. I just, I wash my I just, I'm just, I washed my hands with a head.

Hey, this is what, Hey, what is this? I find me a real estate agent. What's this house worth? You getting up out of there quick. Huh? Yeah. If I, if I gave him, if I gave him my word that she could rent the house and if we broke up, she could buy the house.

I'm an honor that I'm move on. Oh Joe. Yeah. Because even if I am hurt, I'm not gonna give her the satisfaction of knowing that I'm hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, always remember,

Unc, you the prize, Unc. I look in the mirror. You know how you say Candy Man three times? Yeah. You look in the mirror, Unc, if you ever going through it, and you always look in the mirror, you see, you repeat to yourself three times in the mirror. I am the prize and then you know what?

I want you to do after that. I want you to go check it. You're saving the count. Oh, that's what I do Okay, I'll do that first Yeah, I do that first. I'm good You you are the prize you are the prize as a matter of fact, I'm in NYC right now Who's taking care of matter of fact, I'm in NYC right now. Who's taking care of who? Huh? I'm in NYC right now. I went and saw my financial guy.

He like, Yana, we did good. I said, how good? He said, we are 27% this year. I said, we did great. I said, we did great. Yeah, that's beautiful. Hey, I said, just hold on. Just hold on to the end of the year.

That's all I need. Yeah. Hey, yeah, I, look hold on, just hold on to the end of the year. That's all I need. Yeah. Hey, yeah, I, look, man, look, it is what it is. You can't believe everybody. We've all been through it. You can try, you can try. Yeah, yeah, you know, you try, you try. You gonna fall by the wayside,

you gonna fall by the wayside trying to do that. Yeah, but I'm not losing, I'm not losing sleep. I used to get, when I was younger, I tried like, man, I'm trying to make everybody happy. I want to make this thing work. And sometimes I stayed longer than I should and I did more than I should. And you learn from those, I learned from those lessons.

And it's okay, it's okay. I don't regret doing anything that I did because it made me better. And it made me appreciate that when someone came in my life and treated me the way that I thought I should be treated. So it let me know what I was accepting wasn't right. And so now I know when people sincerely, because if you can get mad at me at one instance

and like blow up and then, because I don't like to play no games. Yeah. You know, you get mad at me and all of a sudden you don't answer my call you block me You send me the voicemail right right and then and then after a week two weeks three weeks a month You all of a sudden you unblock me call me well that tells me you know what when I did what you needed to do Right there was somebody out there that you want to get at anyway, right? Right, right, right, right

And so once you got at him, and then you found out that, hey, all he want to do, hey, was smash your dash. You, hey, listen. Now you thought you gonna be able to come back to old shape. No, no, and listen, that's the hard, this is what happened when you got to be careful and when you extend grace like that. When you extend grace like that, there's always a plan B.

There's always a plan B, there's always a backup plan and not realizing sometimes in life in general, what they always think is the grass is being green on the other side, it's just fun. It's just fun because that's exactly how they viewing you. That's exactly how they viewing you because I used to be on the other side. I used to be on the other side.

I used to be on the other side of the fence at one point in life. And I see, I know how to outlook and I know how we look at it. So that's why you got to be careful extending that grace like that because oh boom I'm for the block you for a week or from the block you for a month I'm not going to talk to you I'm for to go have my fun and then the spin the block to come back because you yes yes yes. No, man. You can't, you can't, you can't do it.

Oh, I know, but I'm saying, yeah, but you. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. The Volume. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our

states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. The forces shaping markets and the economy are often hiding behind a blur of numbers. So that's why we created The Big Take from Bloomberg Podcasts to give you the context you need to make sense of it all. Every day in just 15 minutes, we dive into one global business story that matters. You'll hear from Bloomberg journalists like Matt Levine.

A lot of this meme stock stuff is I think embarrassing to the SEC. Follow The Big Take podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer stan. Anya and I met through hockey and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers, ages two and four. And we're excited about our new podcast, Moms Who Puck, which talks about everything from pro hockey to professional women's athletes

to raising children and all the messiness in between. So listen to Moms Who Puck on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Happy holidays from me, Michael Rappaport. My gift to you is a free subscription to the I Am Rappaport Stereo podcast, where I discuss I am Listen to the I Am Rapaport Stereo podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, and wherever you get your podcast. Hi, this is Alex Kansrowitz. I'm the host of Big Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on-air contributor to CNBC. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech, asking where

this is all going. They come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, and plenty more. So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices, and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.