Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: Knicks Steal Game 3 + Luka in "Championship Shape?

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson & Jermaine O'Neal react to Game 3 of the NBA Eastern Conference Finals matchup between Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks vs. Tyrese Haliburton and the Indiana Pacers, pictures of Luka Doncic's weight loss surfacing, and much more!01:47 - Introduction03:49 - Knicks vs. Pacers40:48 - Jeff Teague on Jalen Brunson50:14 - SGA on Game 3 loss1:00:40 - Luka’s weight loss(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of 2B. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There's so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.

Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Wow, wow, wow. What a ball game. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. As you watch the New York Knicks stay alive, 106 to 100 over the Indiana Pacers. They battled back from 20 points down in the second quarter. They cut it to 13 at the half, and then Carl Anthony Towns got hot in the third quarter, and then they took it over in the fourth quarter as they win 106 to 100 over the Pacers, and now the series is now Pacers 2-1.

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. Y'all know me, I am your favorite uncle, Shannon Sharp, my partner and co-host, Liberty City's own, bingo, Ring of Fame honoree, Pro Bowler All-Pro, that's Chad Ocho-Sinko Johnson. And joining us, I thought he was gonna be in a more celebratory mood tonight because he was looking real good for his Indiana Pacers.

He's a six-time All-Star, three-time All-NBA selection, and at the time of his selection, he was the youngest player ever to play in the NBA. At just 17 years of age, played a few games after his 18th birthday. From Eau Claire High School in Columbia, South Carolina, Jermaine O'Neal. J.O., what it do? What's up, fellas?

What's up, dude? We good, we good. Thanks for joining us, man. Appreciate that. Please make sure y'all hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. And guys, go subscribe to the Nightcap Podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from.

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Supplies are limited and once they're gone, they're gone. So please grab yours while supplies last. As I mentioned earlier, the Knicks come back from a 20 point deficit, thought they were about to get run out of the building. They composed themselves, cut it to 13 at the half. Then they outscored them. They only outscored them by three in the third quarter.

But in the fourth quarter, they took over, outscored them by 16 points, gave up 36 36 points something Indiana doesn't do a whole lot of it's give up a big a big quarter like that but the Knicks needed it Carl Anthony Towns was sensational 24 points 15 15 rebounds three or three from the three point line still for all time with 2010 playoff game for the Knicks cat had as many points in the fourth quarter as the Pacers. He got going and when he got it going, it was no stopping. So I meant to say he got it going in the fourth quarter,

not the third, but he did hit a few couple of big buckets that got them going. Josh Hart, 10 points, eight rebounds, four assists. His first game coming off the bench because they started Mitchell Robinson, they went with a big lineup. Another 20 point comeback from the Knicks. The Knicks have the most 20 point comebacks, three in a single

postseason since 1998. JR, I know you watched this game very, very closely and it looked like the Pacers were in control, about to take a commanding lead, three, oh, everything was going inside, outside. They were running, getting out in transition. Obviously that's what they want to do. Make or. They were running, getting out in transition. Obviously, that's what they wanna do. Make or miss, they wanna get out in transition. What did the Knicks do, or what didn't the Pacers do

to cause the outcome to be what it became at the end of the game? Well, question, I think it was more about what the Pacers didn't do. Obviously, okay, go. Towns made some big, big shots on the fourth, but it just seemed like, you know, towards the Towns made some big, big shots on the fourth. But it just seemed like, you know, towards the end of the second quarter, they took their

foot off the gas and they came out in the second half and they didn't have the same energy. I mean, you look at the game, the building wasn't even as ignited as it was in the first half because the energy was low. So you know, the thing that I look at when I look at this game is what is the best players doing? You know, Tyrese, however, he has to take over the games. When you see your team struggling and you see that the offense isn't flowing as well,

I think he tends to take the backseat a little too much in time like that. So he has to do a better job on saying, hey, this is my team. You know, we need a moment here and I got to be the reason why. And I thought that didn't happen today. He had, I think he made a shot or two. Uh, but for the most part, you know, the energy was low. Um, and they didn't compete, you know, when the Knicks did in the fourth. I agree with you. Sometimes I do, uh, uh, believe that Halle gets, he's not as aggressive as I need him to be. Now he only had six assists. That's because the guys couldn't buy a basket.

I mean, you look at the shot, Pascal was, he was 50% from the floor. So was Miles Turner. But you look at Neesmith, he was two of eight, one for three from the three point line. Miles Turner was six to 12 from the floor, but he's one for six from the three. Nim Hart was all three from the three.

Halle was two or six from the three. And so you go five or twenty five from the three-point line That's not that's that's a recipe for disaster and when the team gets it going Hopefully we get some of this in the Western Conference And all of them won't be blowouts 20 points and 40 point blowouts But I thought the Knicks that second quarter the end the end of the second quarter, that last three minutes, Jermaine, I thought that was big for them. Because they could have went the other way. Instead of being down 13, they could have been down 33.

And now maybe we're having a different discussion. But give those guys credit, you're on the road, you're in a hostile environment, you've already lost two home games. They banded together, they believed in themselves, and they made plays when they absolutely had to make plays. And you know, Jaws, Jalen Brunson is gonna have his hand all over it he's gonna find a way to get to the free throw line that's just the way he is and

I would have wished that they probably should have employed the hacker Robinson earlier you know I filed him once I see the momentum starting slipping yeah oh no you gotta go to the free throw line and make those shots Ocho you watching this game and you see the Knicks come back from 20 points down Yeah, and win this ballgame. What did you like about the Knicks resilience on the road? Listen? I like the fact that they kept fighting on I like the fact that they kept fighting Jay They need to find a way to stop being down by 20 stop making the game that much more difficult for you. I Don't understand how or why the way the

Pacers played the first two games, right? Why not do what you did tonight? The previous two games you played before. For when you were playing at home you had an advantage. Now you play a much better game even though you're down about 20. You play a much better game and you're playing away in a hostile environment. And then I think the key to the game also was when you not only were you down by 20, but to be able to come back into the game. Were they able to do the last what five or six minutes of the fourth quarter. Halliburton missed a step back.

The sequence where it was a sequence where I think it was maybe three minutes and 16 seconds on the clock with the goddamn the pages, they had nothing but six points with multiple possessions at that. And I think it was in that matter, in that fact, in that instance in general, where the Knicks took advantage. That goddamn Jaylen Brunson, hey, I'll give you something nice.

People might- He'll get to that free throw line. He might struggle from the floor, but he gonna find a way, Jaylen, to get to the free throw line. Every time. It was a key moment in this game. You know, let's put aside what the Pacers didn't do

and lean more on what the Knicks did. And it started to me from the coaching side, right? You go back to game one, the Knicks went on a run. They were up 17. Thibodeau makes a sub, right? Sometimes when the team is rolling, the very best player doesn't necessarily have to be a part of that. Cause sometimes you can sub and stop the flow of the game.

Right. You fast forward to tonight, right? Where the group that he had in there, they actually did a really good job on cutting it. And he stretched that group out to, they cut it to I think three, you know, or possibly even two. And then when he needed to bring him,

I think he brought Brunson back like two minutes and 20 yards to go in the game. So I thought the coaching part of it was a lot better tonight when it comes to this chess game, you know, which we see in the playoffs. And plus, give Tiff credit, he went with a big line up tonight. He started Mitchell Robinson.

He went with Kat because Mitchell Robinson give them extra possessions. And so that's what we need. We need more than one possession. And so you know what? I said, Mitch, we gonna lean on you tonight. We gonna play you 29 minutes. He played you 29 minutes. I thought he was sensational.

Brought Josh Hart off the bench. And I thought, you know, when you get it rolling like that, it's hard to break up momentum like that, because if you look at the second quarter, he let, uh, Carlisle, he let him go, those were not his regular guys in there. He let them go. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and I thought the Knicks took advantage of that.

They ended up clawing it back and getting it down to 13. I thought McBride came in and made a couple of big shots. He had a big time three. He had a big time pull up. Uh, he's doing a little thing. He had a big time three. He had a big time pull up. He's doing a little thing. He's a very good defender. If you look at it, Ocho, we've been talking about this.

They normally play seven guys. They played nine tonight. They played nine tonight. Landry Shamrock got 11 minutes. Darrell Wright got 13 minutes. Josh Hart played, you know, he normally plays a little more minutes, but he came off the bench.

He played 34 and McBride gave you 15. Hey, J.O. And you say, you say Halliburton, especially in, in, in, I call it pressure situations, you know, at the end of that game, you say Halliburton should take over. But if you, if you look at what the Knicks were doing, the hell, the Knicks was doubling Halliburton on all high screens and forcing the ball really out his hands and leaving the onus of someone else on that team to have to have to shoot

or get their point from somewhere else. And they, they, they wasn't hitting. See how I could turn the ball over. Yeah, they didn't, they didn't, I mean, the offense didn't flow very well. So I agree with you. They, they did. And again, it's a chess match right now, right?

You know, they're going back and forth. They're trying to take the ball out of certain people's hands. But the thing, the difference that I saw tonight, early in the game, I think the first half, the Pacers bench outscored the Knicks bench, I think 22 to seven in the second half. The Knicks was a plus, I think 15 or 16. So the Florida game was a lot different

for the Pacers early. I thought the Pacers got a lot more stagnated in the second half. And Ocho, to go back to what you were saying, what makes Halliburton really, really good is when they're moving that ball, swinging that ball, catch him, he catching the ball on the live pass and he's going downhill. Well, the second half, you got the second half, it was super stagnated. They got bumped up against the shot clock a lot and the ball didn't necessarily end up in the right people's hand at the right time.

Right. Yeah, I thought he had on to the ball. The ball stuck a little bit a little bit too long with his hands tonight, J.O. I like when Hallebert when they're getting make or miss getting the ball off the rim and they're pushing tempo. That's when they're at their absolute best and it doesn't matter if Halle has it if Nemhardt, Neesmith, it does not matter who, uh, Matthew, it doesn't matter. They're looking to push tempo. That's when they're at their best is when they're getting up and down. I thought Halley did a little bit too much dribbling tonight. I thought he was, you know, he wasn't like,

I'm finna go to the basket now, let me back it out again. And now he's getting off the ball at 10 seconds. Now, hey, don't nobody, cause it's really hard, when you really look at it, who's really looking to take somebody out the bounce? See, Ockham, everything else is really set up by Halliburton doing a great job of getting penetration. They played a lot of pick and roll, you know, like getting the high pick and

roll with Miles Turner. He can, he can roll to the basket or he can hit the pick and pop. But I thought tonight, I thought Hallie might have held onto the ball just a tad too much, but he has some guys that have some good looks at the basket. Uh, tonight, J.O. They just didn't go down for him. Five of 25 is not, well, clearly that's not good enough when you're shooting 20% from the floor

from the three point line. But when you play it, you gotta win this game. You're at home, you done stole two games on the road, you gotta win the first game back, J.O. And it happened to him against Cleveland, remember? Cleveland did the same thing to him. They take the first two games in Cleveland. They come in there and they get up.

But Cleveland really, Cleveland took the game from the, from the tip. And I look at it and say, damn, man, the pace is about to go up three oh on the next, about to go up three oh. And then I'm like, Hey, y'all getting real sloppy with this basketball. Now there's still two and a half quarters to go. Now let, Hey, don't let this thing slip away. And then they cut it right before the half. They got it down to 13.

And I think the Knicks were thinking, we got it manageable now. We got it manageable. If we come out, Ocho, we come out and hit two threes, hey, this thing under 10. And we was down 20 just five minutes ago. Hey, they gotta find a way to stop being down in such a deficit. Having to crawl back and fight back from 20, I understand the game of

basketball is all about it. It's a game of runs, but like make it easy on yourself. Don't make every game where, okay, now we got to do everything. We got to be, you got to be damn near perfect and hope the momentum shifts in your favor outside of that. I mean, listen, the Knicks bench played really well. It was ugly. It was ugly.

Josh, McBride, Robinson, listen, they weren't flashy, but they outplayed Indiana's second unit. And if they can have another game like that, when they play again, huh? Tuesday. Tuesday. Tuesday.

And listen, if they can have another game like that, especially the bench, we know what the starters are And listen, if they have another game like that, especially the bench, we know what the starters are gonna do. They have another game like this and tie this series up, it can become interesting again. Because if they had lost the nice game, I really think- It was over.

I really think the series was over. Oh, it was over. It was definitely over, Joe, if they had lost this game. 100%. 100%. I think the thing why I'm struggling as a former player when I look at these playoffs and you see it a lot throughout the season, time and possession is not a thing anymore in the NBA. Especially in the playoffs where everything comes down to possessions. I'm

watching more and more threes being launched. It almost creates bad threes. It creates rhythm for other teams getting it and they're gone. And that's the thing why I'm struggling with a little bit. I mean, you go back to the first game with the Knicks and again, I'm happy that, you know, that we are, you know, two one, but when you look at that game, you know, 14 with two minutes and I think at the time it was 40, 57 seconds. Right. When you think about it, all you have to do is get four or five stops and hell, you can get four or five, 57 seconds. Right. When you think about it, all you gotta do is get four or five stops and hell you can get four or five shot clock violations.

Right. And you win the game. But I look at tonight where it's like, every time it's like somebody, it was some sort of rhythm is happening, a three, a bad three go up, right? Or just bad possession. And that's the part where I'm struggling

with a little bit right now, considering that this is, this is go to the NBA finals, right? You're in the conference finals, so you should have some sort of understanding on how you know to win the game and understanding too on how to lose the game as well. Yeah, I think we see a lot of that, J.O. I think sometimes guys get called a little I'm gonna be the guy to break the rhythm. I'm gonna be the guy to get to hit the big shot, that quell their run or push us to if we're up five, we're gonna go up eight. If we're up seven, we're gonna go up 10.

I'm gonna be the guy that puts the, you know, that says, okay, he hit that big shot. Well, it was a big shot in the corner that such and such hit. But what you do is that you allow them, like you said, you allow them to get a rhythm. You allow them to get a run out on you. Right. And now all of a sudden you're like, bro, and I'm sure in a situation like that, J.O., you're not telling, hey, man, don't take that shot. You're like, hey, don't take that shot.

You're like, Hey, let's just be patient. Let's slow this thing down. But I think the thing is for the paces look, it's one game. You said it J.O., they're still up two, one, and we got another game in our building. Now you've given the Knicks life. The Knicks believe that they can beat your ass in your building. Cause they just came back from 20 down. So they believe not anything close going into the fourth quarter. They got you. You got this.

Man, I don't know. I don't know who feels good about what I mean, obviously the Knicks had some struggles at home. And then the Pacers, you know, they had to think about the game. Carl Anthony Towns and Brunson did obviously were in foul trouble. They were in foul trouble. They didn't have a great first half at all. And they walked away with a win, right? When that game should have been a 20 plus point drumming of the Knicks, but they found a way to stay in the game or the Pacers found a way to keep them in the game. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream

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You look at the Pacers, Ocho, we talk about this all the time, your committee. And normally they have six guys in double figures. They had four guys in double figure tonight. Neal Smith, two of eight, he only had eight points. You had Nim Hard, he was two of nine, O of three, he had nine points. Those guys normally get you 13, 14, 15. That's how they normally play.

You'd Halliburton had 20, Seahawking. Look, that was a playoff career high in game two when she had 39, he was phenomenal. I'm not expecting them to have a whole bunch of 30 point playoff games. That's just not the type of offensive player that he is. He's a good, he's a good player. Uh, but I'm not looking for him to go off like he went off in game two again. I don't know about you, jail.

I thought TJ McConnell was sensational. Maybe you might need to bump those 15 minutes up and give him 20 minutes because he battles, he pushes pace he makes big-time shots He's a hustler. I love the way he played But they're kicking themselves Just like the Knicks kicked themselves the first game because they're like man we had Brunson go off for 43 We had cat go off for 36 and we lose right so now they're feeling good about themselves They say hold hold on.

Jalen Brunson only played 31 minutes. Cat only played 33 minutes. Six of 18 for Brunson. One of five, Cat was three of seven, eight of 17. They have 47 points. And the game they had damn near 80 points, they lose. The game they had 47 was in five trouble, they win. So they're going to take great consolation in this or being on the road like look guys

There ain't no we saw him do it twice to Boston in the garden down 20 We saw him be down at home in game three no game with a game four and come back and win the game And then go close it out I Still like the paces if I'm in these teams, I like being up 2-1. I don't give a damn how good I played the last game. That other team is still have a 2-1 deficit, 2-1 up on us. And we still got another game in their building. Yeah. Now, I'm with you on the McConnell deal, right? I think, you know, he had 10 first half points. And I thought he had a really good flow to the game early.

Then the second half, you didn't see as much of him, right? You know, he was in there, but it wasn't the same level of impact. I don't know if it was just the time or just the rhythm of the game, but I think he can be a very, very important component. But here's my question to both of you guys. Is when the Pacers get in the funk,

offensive like they did tonight, if Pascal Siakam isn't the guy that you go for, they can go for 30 every night, and Terry Halliburton isn't the guy that can be aggressive all the time, then who you go to? But see, that's the thing. When you look at this, they kind of remind me of the Rockets, but a little bit more seasoned, because who is the guy that you really want to take

the last shot? Now we've seen Halliburton hit some big shots, but you said, okay, are we gonna give this ball to Pascal Siakam and let him go get us a basket? That's not what he is. He's a really good player. He is. And I don't wanna try to diminish him here, but a basket. That's not what he is. He's a really good player. He is. And I don't want to try to diminish him here,

but I'm not looking at him, a guy that's going consistently like, you know what, we need 25 a night. That's not what he is. Right. J.O., think about what you just asked, right? Is Pascal Siakam, he's struggling late in the game. They doubling Halliburton,

forcing them to kick the ball out. Does everyone else, do the other three players have the green light to be able to shoot at will when they want to in precious situations, especially down in that fourth quarter, when obviously who you want, who you want the ball in their hands, they can't get it done. Do they have the green light to shoot at will? So I think they do. I think that's what makes the Pacers really good is the depth. When you look at the game that they won, really both games, but in particular game one, I think they had seven guys in double figures. They have four, they have four tonight, right? They're going to, those others, you know, like Shaq always says,

the others, they're going to have to really step up and free Halliburton. Halliburton's about to be aggressive, start to finish, you know, going to game four. He cannot be passive, he cannot allow double, you know, to, you know, to take him out of the game. I mean, hell, the Pacers were doubling Brunson in the first two games, and especially the first game. He had 43, so he's not on the way to really, you know, stay, you know, bite down and stay focused and stay,

you know, stay, you know, greedy when it comes to, you know, making sure he's impacting the game. And then the rest of the guys are falling into place. But I just felt like tonight they just got a little too tight, you know, when the game was, you know, when the game was, you know, was when they went on, when the Knicks went on, they run and they're going to have to get away from that and realize that they are at home. The energy is behind them and that should be able to carry them. Yeah, Me Smith, he's going to give you eight and he's been playing really well. Nimhar's been playing really well. Yep.

Eight, nine. I thought Mathron just didn't have it tonight and it shows in the amount of minutes that he played. I think he thought he came in and got a couple of fouls, picked up a couple of fouls early and Carlisle didn't have the confidence in him to leave him in the ball game and he ended up going out. They brought Shepard in, he had a big three, he's mainly a defensive guy that can knock down threes have given the opportunity. But you look at, you look at this team in order for them to win, they're going to have to have five, six guys in double figures. That's how they've been all year.

JL this is, I mean, I mean, they're probably looking at it like, damn, we only have four guys. We all, they're one of the few teams that have five guys in double figures and the entire playoffs. And then McConnell, you know, McConnell can get you 10 cause he'll hit a big three. He'll get a couple of steals, get a, and one or something, get the crowd going.

But I thought, I thought those others, Neesmith, Nemhard, Matherin, got, Obi Toppett, Obi normally, you know, he missed a easy one right there. You know, missed the put back. He'll he'll be better, I think, those guys, and I think the guys that they're counting on, the role players that Niesmith, the Nimhar, Mappin, Obey, I think if they give you what they normally gave you

throughout the entirety of the playoff thus far, especially the first two games against the Knicks, I think they'll be fine. In 20-point comeback, playoff wins. In 2025, we already have six. In the last four post-seasons combined. We've only had five. That's crazy.

And we've seen three into what the last, the last seven games. I mean, we saw Boston, we saw Boston give up two 20 point leads and we just saw another one tonight. I guess the question also comes down to the Pacers bench was, there wasn't the normal set tonight, right? Typically they are the ones that they're going to come in and every night it's going to be somebody to step up. The Knicks bench hasn't been impactful this series, but they were impactful tonight.

The biggest question is can the Knicks bench come back again in game four, right? Because I expect the Pacers to come back and be their normal self, because Rick Carlisle is a hell of a coach, had a tournament play with him in Indiana. He's a huge adjustment coach. I mean, one of the smartest coaches I've ever been around,

so I know he's gonna have those boys ready to go. But then when it come down to the game itself, which bench is gonna carry their team? And if I had to put my money on it, and this is not me being a homer, I'm gonna go with the Pacers because they've done it all year. Right.

When you're down, and JL you played 15 plus years, when you're down, is there a number that you don't feel that you can't come back from? And I know it's different than when you first got to the league because there wasn't a whole lot of 20-point comebacks because teams weren't shooting the three like they shoot it now. A 20-point lead in the first quarter, second quarter, even midway through the third quarter ain't ish.

Because guys can hit, they can get on the road and hit two or three threes and a layup and what was a 20-point lead now is all of a sudden a 10 or 8-point lead and so it's a lot different now But was there ever a number that you take your team got down? He like what damn? Yeah, we got to get ready for tomorrow. Yeah, this is 15 18. It was What was tough to come back back there? You know, that was almost like death, right? If you down in 15 18 points because you know, we were going to, the ties has turned a lot, right?

You got offensive flow, the analytics is to me is getting people fired. I'm a bad guy. You know, this analytic thing is going crazy, bro. Got them taking bad threes instead of good twos. Good twos, right. But I mean, look at our MVP, SGA, he's a mid-range killer, right? He's taking those tools. But to answer your question, 18 to 20 points in a playoff game? Yeah, you got to get ready for the next game because you ain't coming back from that because

most teams won't allow you to because it was a defensive-minded, you know, the mindset, you know, from the start, right? It's how many times we can stop you, not how many times we can out-shoot you, right? And I think that's what's happening in the NBA right now. You have these huge swings, but it was no way in hell. If we planned somebody or the Pistons or in New Jersey had Jay Kidd and all the good defensive teams, they were never gonna allow you to come back. But now I guess in two minutes,

you can score 20 to 25 in two minutes. And the problem is also, J.O., is that teams take bad, quick shots. I mean, all of a sudden, you see a team go on a 10-0 run in under a minute. Like, what the hell? Hey, I'll feed that on. Hey, I'm just gonna hold the ball, J.O.,

I'm just gonna hold the ball, let the shot clock run down. I'm gonna give it a go. I'm gonna let the the shot clock run down. I'm gonna give it a go. I'm gonna let the shot clock run down twice. I'm gonna get past a minute. Bro, listen, and the craziest thing that as just a life friend basketball, wing threes and corner threes create fast breaks.

And over and over you see the same thing in unbalanced defensive floors. So I'm not even sure exactly what they're teaching you know, in the NBA right now from perspective of those things. But then you know to tell them that's the short porch, that short, that corner three, that's the short three, J.O. But what happens with that kerm, that long kerm,

and next thing you know the guy, hey, in two dribbles, he already got somebody at the rim. And you're like, and they keep, and I understand the Knicks tonight, they're like, y'all not hitting them, so we'll give them to you. Y'all not making them. So 20%, five of 25, and they had some good looks. It wasn't like they were shooting a lot of contested threes, but some of them were quick. It's okay.

Look, I understand, woo, this thing wide open. Yeah, there's a reason why you wide open. And it's only 24, only 20 seconds that's going off the clock. Right. I'm sorry, only four seconds going off the clock. Take it down a little bit more. And I understand, look, the paces are a flow team, J.O. They love to run.

They're absolute best, and there are very few teams that can keep that pace up with them, because if you look at who the guys they got, Neesmith, Nimhart, Mathburg, they're kind of interchangeable. They're kind of like the same guy. Yep. Same about the same height and can get up and down and play. McConnell comes in.

Look, now he's not Halliburton, but he can do a great job of orchestrating the offense. He's a bulldog. He can make tough shots. I love him. He's tenacious on defense, a little undersized, but he plays hard. And when you got guys like that, you don't give up a whole lot because you're not asking a guy. You don't see them. I mean, their leading scorer, who is their leading scorer? Probably Siakam.

What, 19? So you probably got another guy with 17, another guy with 16, another guy with 15, 14, 12. You're not going to have the disparity when you got a guy averaging 28, and then the next guy closer to him is averaging 15. Hey, J.O., you mentioned some of the adjustments that Coach Carlisle could make, how smart he is. So obviously I'm thinking about on the other end, with Tim doing something that he normally doesn't do. Normally he plays seven, but tonight he played nine.

What adjustments, I know you're a patience guy, what adjustments do you think Tibbs can make to ensure that this game or this series evens itself up next time they play on Tuesday? Yeah, we all know that, you know, no matter who we are, you know, on that professional roster, when a coach shows trust, you know, we feel confident. Mm-hmm. We don't feel sped up, we don't feel tight.

I thought Tibbs did a hell of a job on showing confidence in his bench and he kept coming back to it. I thought the previous two games, he relied too much on Brunson's bounce, right? In the bump. It was no side to side. And with Brunson being 6-1, right, they trapping him. Every shot is hard. I think that Tibbs has to stay with what worked this game, with an understanding that he may have to make

some game adjustments, but I thought tonight he was good from that perspective. And again, I was sitting there talking to my business manager watching this game. I didn't know who won the battle because it was a tale of two different halves, right? Where I just felt in the first half, the Pacers looked like the Pacers, right?

All side to side. They didn't want good shots. They wanted great shots. Then the second half, right, it was stagnated, you know, bumped up against the shot clock. Nick's first half stagnated. Every shot was tough. Every if you go back and look at the game, they were even right.

The Pacers had them running that half their half court offense. Damn it. The half court line. They had them bumped up against the half court line, and then the second half, they got what they wanted. Call Anthony Towns for the life of God. That boy should start on the box, and then move his way out. You were preaching that for the longest. For years.

Preaching for the longest. I don't know why he shoots all these crazy threes, because he does have some work down low. He does? Oh, he's skilled. But I thought the Knicks defense, there are a couple of times that the Pacers got in transition and the Knicks transition defense was sensational. Blocked them out, hey, no, you didn't get in here,

make them pass out, they come back again, say, no, no, mm-mm, not doing it again. But I tell you what, when they take Carl Anthony times out, they gotta do a better job of getting on the boards because Mitchell Robinson has given them too many opportunities, second chance points. And that's what he's in there for. He's in there to challenge, if you get to,

if you beat your guy, he's gonna challenge you at the rim, but he's also wants to give Brunson, he wants to give those other guys second chance opportunities and so they're gonna have to do a better job of keeping him off the glass and I think if they can do and plus also Josh Hart remember Josh Hart the other night Ocho he only had like five rebounds he had 10 tonight yeah and he had that in the reserve role so you you see, he got better. Nim Hart and the other guy, and Neesmith, they didn't do what they did the first two games. So one guy got better, the other two kind of slid back a little bit. And I think that was the difference in the ball game. He gave us a great production. Eight points, 12 rebounds, four assists, and still. It only

had one turnover. He's the Swiss Army Knife. He's the guy that's gonna do it all. He's gonna take a charge. He's gonna get you second chance opportunities. He's gonna facilitate. He's a great pass at the basketball. And he's a good defender. I thought his presence tonight was really, really good.

But you're gonna have to do a job of keeping Mitchell Robinson off the glass. Too many, he gave the Knicks too many opportunities. I mean, he had three offensive rebounds. Josh Hart had three offensive rebounds. That's too many. It's Miles Bridges had two. You gotta keep him off the glass.

You got to. I'm gonna tell you, this is the X factor for me going into game four. He hadn't played well at all this, this, you know, this round, but Benedict Mather. Yep. He's been big for them all year and he's really, really struggled. I need to reach out to my young boy and just, he just needed to just relax and play the

game. He knows how to play, but he hadn't been great for him. If he comes out and he plays the way he's capable of playing the way he played this season, it will be difficult, right? To try to double Halliburton or anybody else, right? I think, you know, he's an X factor for me. Yeah, I thought, I didn't think Siakam was aggressive enough tonight.

Remember the other night he had what? 23 shot attempts, the night he had 14. Miles Turner's had 12, Halliburton has 15. Bro, 15 bro come on now see how can you just had a 39 point game and you cool were taking 14 shots hell nah I'm trying to get me another 39 point game I'm going to the rack hey hey do you think the players know do you think someone keeps track of how many shots they take in jail did you keep track of how many balls you caught? Did you know how many balls you caught in the last game?

Hold on now, we talk about football and basketball, it's kind of different. Do you really know on the court, J.O.? How many shots you've taken in the game? Do coaches let you know? Or you just have free will? Go ahead, Jordan. Yeah, you definitely know, you can know it

because on the sideline, almost every time out, they have scoreheet, where you can go look at the stat sheet on what you're doing. Typically, you might ask a coach, hey man, how many shots have I taken? Especially if you're struggling a little bit. You're going to ask that question because now they got 37 coaches on the roster. If you look behind the bench, somebody has something for everybody. You are aware on how many shots you've taken and what your

stats are, because you always got that one, one to two coaches that's telling you, you know, what's going on in the game. Cause they want you to be aggressive. He needs to be aggressive. And like I said, and you see what, when he's aggressive, the guys that are aggressive that need to be aggressive, Siakam and Halliburton, they're supposed to be your two best players, when your two best that need to be aggressive, Siakam and Halliburton, they're supposed to be your two best players. When your two best players need to play like your two best players,

and they should never have to be in a... feel like they're in a reserve role. Sometimes I feel like Halliburton feel like he's a role player, like he's a bench player. Nah, bro. You an All-Star. You wouldn't have to... You earn a gold medal. Be like that. Be him. Be him.

Siakam, you just dropped 39, bro. You just dropped 39, took 23 shots to get it. And you cool with taking 14? Nah, bro. Go and try to get that back. Be aggressive, because he was aggressive in game, too. I'm telling you, extremely aggressive. Well, I guess the question is, you know, when you're the away team, you expect it, right? You expect the viciousness,

the people talking about your mama, your kids. You expect that when you walk into, you know, to an arena. When you come home, you almost try to be too perfect. Yes, right? You try to align yourself with being perfect and doing everything right, because you don't wanna let your home crowd down.

And it looks that way. That's why tonight I thought the paces were a little too tight. You know, when things got tight, you know, when the game got tight, you know, people wanted to rely on somebody else to do it versus they overpassed the ball, J.O. I was looking at, bro, stop shooting the ball.

Yep, wouldn't shoot it. Yep. Cause everybody, I want to make, man, I want to make sure I'm going to make the right play. No bro, shoot the ball. Shoot it. Shoot it. You don't have to be perfect.

Ain't nobody going to call you selfish. Nobody looks at the paces and think this is a selfish ball club because we have too many guys that score in double figures. So you can't have that many guys scored in double figures and be a selfish ball club. We don't think you're a selfish ball club, but you don't have to be perfect.

You don't have to be perfect to win. Nah, 100%. And I just thought tonight, I thought sometimes they overpassed the ball and ended up turning it over. Hold on, you call it overpassing, what happens if not being in rhythm? What happens if not being in confidence, not having the confidence to shoot the ball at that specific time based on the circumstance of the game at the time? You said all their players most of the time are in double figures. All the players are also in rhythm. Also those players are also a little bit more efficient from the field than they were tonight. So there's a little bit more comfortability with taking those shots as opposed to overpassing tonight. You know what? I'm not in rhythm right now.

Based on the game and the circumstance that we're in right now, I don't wanna take that shot. So I'm gonna pass it on to somebody else. Well, you can't feel like that. The ball's gonna find you. You ever notice how they put an outfielder in the field or an infielder in baseball? Don't let the ball find him. The ball get hit right to him.

Somebody get in there, hey, we need a spare receiver. Everybody come, somehow the ball gotta find him. Or the D.V. When they put a D, a corner in the game, whatever he is, what the ball do somehow the ball got to find him or the DB when they put a D of corn in the game It's not whatever he is. What what the ball do the ball will find every time if you if you're not If you're not confident, right somehow the ball will find it. Oh that goes back to what I love This mobile question for both you guys. Are you are you more comfortable at home? Or the villain on the road. Well, I like I like I like being a villain on the road? Well, I like, I like, I like being the villain on the road.

I like, I like, I, I, I operate very well in a chaotic environment. Comfortable being uncomfortable. I, it's weird. Yep. No, I played, I played, I think I played my best at home. I just wanted to be, I just wanted to be able to hear the snap count. Cause I've tried to get down to field as fast as I can. And if you notice it, when they, when you notice, in track meets, when they say, run us to their mar, everything is hush.

Because what, everybody hit a gun. I need to hear the gun, I need to hear that, huh? And ball up out of there. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures, and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary.

We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide.

And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let me know what you think about this, J.O. Jeff Teague says Jalen Brunson holding the ball for most of the shot clockers, the reason why New York initially went down 0-2 against the Pacers. You know how the Knicks lose these games. The shot clock is 24 seconds. Jalen Brunson is holding the ball for 17 of them. They don't get no rhythm. You agree or disagree?

I agree. I agree. And that's what I thought happened in especially the first game when he came back in when they were up, you know, I think they're up 17, he came back in and the rhythm, they just looked out of sorts. When you talk, you're talking about two teams are in the top seven, top eight defensively in the NBA, right? And so both can guard and the patients, they're physical, they switch every day and they have size. And with Brunson at six foot one, as good as he is with the ball, it's crafty, you know, one of the best guards in the league. In the playoff scenario, I think it makes it tough when he has the ball in his hand the majority of the time,

he's dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, and he get bumped up against the shot clock, all of a sudden the ball finds somebody else with two seconds, you know, two seconds to go on the shot clock. That's not a great rhythm for two teams that are really good defensively. And really both of them are the top seven offensively as well.

So if you can be top seven offensively, that means the ball moves around. And I thought tonight, it was almost a mirror image of a really good offensive team because in the second half, the Knicks were able to move the ball around and people were able to hurt you doing that. And I thought Carl Anthony Towns, even though he has some big threes, look at how many times he got to the basket. Right. That opens up his three ball because now he's attacking the basket. Now people can't stand in front of him. Right. Well, so, um, I mean, to, to based on what Jeff T said, JL, you can probably, you know,

correct me if I'm wrong. Is there a way that Jaylen Brunson can operate the offense and getting the ball and be quick and getting everything set up? Be quick, but not in a hurry? As a, would it be like you rushing things? Well, I think you gotta, I think walking the ball down, you know, uh, puts them up against the clock from the start, right? I think getting the ball out, you know, on, in particular on misses, you know, let's get the ball up to court. Nothing's there. Boom. Let's get into our offense. Let's get, let's get a really good shot based off our offense.

A lot of times when they get caught, I want you guys to watch this over the next, you know, hopefully this series doesn't go too many more games. Watch how many times they walk the ball up against, it's hard to walk the ball up against really good defensive teams. Right. Because they're set and they're waiting and they're trying to take everything away.

And I just think that, you know, with him, with his size and how crafty he is, he has to put himself in a better position to get into the shot clock a little bit earlier. Man, I'm looking at this, J.O. I don't know if you saw these stats, but Knicks only had 13 assists. Bridges had one, O.G. had two, Cat had one,

Robinson had one, Brunson had one, McBride had none, Hart had four, Wright had one, Shammit had two. You score 100 plus points and you got 13 assists. That is crazy. I'm looking at that, I didn't know that. 13, and you got 13 assists. That is crazy. I'm looking at that. I didn't even know that. 13. And you got 100 points.

I think you're going to have 13 assists. You're going to have probably about 75, 80. That's a lot of catching and holding. And that's the thing. And see, that's the thing. And sometimes, you know, you getting put backs. You letting the team get second chance points on you. Nobody creates an assist for you.

That's just you doing the ball. And so it's gonna be interesting to see. I'm actually to see the adjustments. We saw the adjustments that the Knicks made. The adjustment was insert Mitchell Robinson. Get the ball out of Halle's hand. Let's see if somebody else can create offense for this team. Leading assist guy was Halle.

They had a couple of guys with three. McConnell had three. Nemhard had three. Turner had three. Neesmith played 26 minutes. Bro, you gotta give us, you gotta give us, come on now, zero assists. Pascal, I need about four or five assists from you. Yeah. Because you're the guy, because you just scored 39. You, they, make them come help you, make them come double you. Yeah. See, you're not aggressive. They like, and I know, look, OG is a very good defender. He got the best of OG, game two. OG held his own, game three.

OG gave you 16, so they basically played to a standstill. But Pascal was minus 21. He's minus 21. He had the lowest plus minus of anybody that touched the court. Well, I guess the magical word for this series is sustainability, right? Can you sustain what you did in the first half and bring it to the second half and be better, right? Or at least keep it at the same level.

It seems like in this series, it's a changing of the guards when it comes to how they're performing from half to half. Right? And so I think that, you know, the way the Pacers had it rocking in the first half of tonight, if they can take that same energy

and bring it to the second half, they run away with this game probably by 30. Yeah. And yeah, you could say that too. You know, you could say that, I mean, even though the Pacers shot the lights out of it, you know, at the first game, but it's just, it's just, it's just strange, man,

like these, these, these big swings in, in the playoffs, right, where, you know, it's not, you're playing the same team, right? It's not like, right, you got to redo the, you know, scouting report, but I guess it I guess it's kind of the new era when it, it depends on who's gonna get hot, who's gonna be aggressive, who wants to impact the game, who doesn't wanna impact the game,

who feels good, who doesn't feel good. It's a lot of scenarios that is coming into play, man, which is unusual for something this late in the season. Yeah, and I'll go back to a a jail and I think this is what happened. Is that when they got that 20 point lead, I thought they was going to close it out and probably keep it at 20. Maybe even get, push it somewhere around 30. But the Knicks had other ideas. The Knicks ended up cutting it. They ended up going like a mini run and they ended up cutting it to 13. So they had to feel really, really good.

13 is still, boy, Shannon, that's still double digits, but still you were down 20. And in the blink of an eye, you got it down. You got it down to 13. And. And I thought like early in the third, you know, they got it down to 10 and then the pace was pushing back to 15, but then all of a sudden you see them get that thing down to seven, they get it down to five. You're like, uh-oh. Yeah. Uh-oh.

Now, you're at home and your crowd, the longer I can get, as long as I can keep the crowd out of it, Joe, I like my chances if I'm the road team. Now I done got the crowd out of it. You had them in the game in the second quarter, and now here it is the third quarter. Getting ready to head into the fourth, and they quiet. Yeah.

Again, I love Terry Salliburton. I think he's a hell of a player. I think he's going to just continue to get better. But I didn't see out there tonight where somebody was like, yo, give me the damn ball. Right. All right, give me the damn ball. Right. Right. Give me the ball. All right. I'm about to do this. And as a, as the point guard, you can really set the table and set and set the, you know,

the chemistry of the team with that mentality. Right. And I just felt like a lot of times you look, he was kind of off ball. And I don't understand they were trapping him when he got the ball, but he has to be a little bit more aggressive about, you know, the will to want to win the game. And I think he will be because he seems like a really good competitor. But he's gonna have to be because now you now the Knicks feeling like, hey, man, we we get this one and we get to go back to the garden.

You know, we're in a great position. And to tell you the truth, it's a must win situation for the Pacers. Yeah. Come game four. They gotta win that game because if you go back to two, now it's the best side of three. Yeah, make it hard on yourself. But the Knicks have a home court. Yeah.

SGA say the Thunder got punched in the mouth by Anthony Edwards and the Wolves. We got punched in the mouth. And next game, we're either going to get back up or not, and we'll lose the game. The Timberwolves shot lights out in game three. They hit 57% of their shots They went 20 or 40 from the three-point line Collecting 19 more rebounds had 14 more points in the paint and man 30 points in 30 minutes now rebounds five assists to steals He was plus he was a 12 or 17 from the floor Five of eight from the three finally got that three ball going because the first two games it was non-existent. Plus 36, five and one in

the target center this postseason. What'd you say, Jale? There's no way Oklahoma City plays the way they play. And I think it'd be difficult for Minnesota. Minnesota and will them in that first half. You know, he just simply willed them. I don't know if Minnesota has the depth to, because again, you gotta think,

in the playoffs, adjustments will come. What happens if they start trapping Ant-Man? And then who you go to, right? You talking about, okay, C is one of the best scoring teams. Hell, they said, they was historical, historical this year when it came to margins of victory, right? That came, the level of death when it comes to scoring

is probably best in the league, right? And so I would think that they're gonna come back with a sense of urgency and do the things that they've just completed and been doing all year. Right, it's not something that they gotta go and figure out in the locker room, hey, you know, who's gonna do what?

They just gotta get back to doing what they've been doing and then, you know, they're gonna be fine. I think they, this is a year that, I would love to see them play against the Pacers because you got two teams that play with depth and I think it's ultimately made end up being that way but I see a series going being 3-1 after tomorrow night. Yeah. Hey, I'm looking at this I thought the Timberwolves got Shannon Jr. came off the bench in 13 minutes and gave him 15 big points. Yeah, I thought the Timberwolves got, Shannon Jr. came off the bench in 13 minutes

and gave him 15 big points. I thought Devin Chinzo hit some big threes to keep that lead, keep that, when Ant-Man went to the bench. I thought Nas Reid played probably his best game of this short series thus far. Miller came in. I just thought, look, but the keys for them is Ant-Man to be efficient

and Drew Ramda. You look at Drew Ramda, he had a really good game, game one, and then he was non-existent in game two and they got blown out. He didn't even play in the fourth quarter. They're like, no, we good. Get to go on and get your mind right. They showed the clip where he's telling his family, y'all go ahead and go, I ain't going back in the game. We ain't about to win this game. I'll see y'all in a bit. Hey, we getting ready to go back to Minnesota. We gonna give them something there. Randall was nine of 15 from the floor, two of five, four of four from the free throw line,

plus 38 in 30 minutes. 24 points. Ant-Man, as I said before, 30 minutes, 12 of 17, five of eight, one of two from the free throw line. He had nine rebounds, six assists, two steals, plus 36, 30 points. When those two guys getting it going. Now, McDaniels hit some big shot yesterday. I thought he did a good job.

I thought he did a better job on Shay. Did a great job of keeping him, keeping him off the foul line. He only had four free throw attempts. You know, Shay normally somewhere in that 10, he could easily be 10 to 13. Attempts a night. I thought he did a great job of keeping him off the foul line, making it tough on everybody. Rudy Gobert had his best game, although he only had seven points.

But I thought the bench for Minnesota was sensational last night and they needed to be because that's where OKC you look at OKC's bench when they come in Caruso and they come with Wiggins and they come with Wallace and they come without say a joke they don't miss a beat they a they got the other Jalen Williams mm-hmm they they're deep they gonna play they're gonna play 10-11 guys yeah back now to not have a problem playing playing it playing his real guys he believe him like we've been playing them all year. Why are we gonna get to the playoffs now

and cut our bench, increase those guys' minute, get them tired and put them in situations they're not used to being in all year. So I like his philosophy. Hey, and also, you know, to piggyback on what J.O. said about obviously them making the adjustments for Anthony Edwards to stop him. Obviously, what are they gonna do once they trap him?

Well, obviously, Ant, you got to know that coming out already that they're going to make adjustments to try and stop you and having to kick from everybody else in the bench. They have to find a way to play the exact same way they did this game. Shannon Jr. How you say it? I don't want to say it. D.B. Chenzo. D.B. Chenzo.

McDaniels. And Ant Ann gotta be aggressive again. Trap or not. Hey, there were games you went into, you know the double team is coming? Yep. I don't, man, I don't see none of that. But you know what? He has to have that same mentality that he had this game. Yeah, he got to, if you go back and look at him

with the Lakers, there are a lot of times he had like 12 assists, he had nine assists. He trusted his guys. Yeah. Now, if you let him slip through the crack, he going to the rim. Every time. He going to the rim.

But the thing that I like about him, he is very unselfish. He will give the ball up. Now, he's going to give the ball up if you're knocking down shots. Yeah. Because his mentality is, you're not knocking down shots and we losing. Let me go in this phone booth and put this cape on

and see what I can do. Right. Well, I'll say this. I will say this. And again, every player in this NBA, NFL, Major League Baseball, NHL, those are the very best athletes in the world. Right. Absolutely.

Just start there. Don't be, I don't want nobody, people be like, the man down in the bench, he ain't good. No, he's good. Yeah He just ain't better than the ones, you know, it's out there right? Right, right, right I will say this and you almost saw it happen tonight if Carl Anthony Towns don't go for 20 You know in that in that in that fourth quarter If you put people it's one thing about you know, in that fourth quarter. If you put people, it's one thing about, you know, having a, you know, having an opportunity to get,

you know, to get, you're having yourself a night, right? But in the playoffs, if you have yourself a night, then the next night, it's gonna be a script for you, particularly in basketball, right? And so from that perspective is, can you have the will and endurance, mind, body, and soul to come and have another one when typically that hadn't been your role? And so that's the difference.

When I see teams like Indiana, teams like OKC, where they've all season long, depending on that depth, and they've been every night somebody goes to 25 or 22, it's been consistent. And you hear them talk. They always talk about the numbers, right? We trust our teammates. You look at Minnesota, you look at the Knicks, right? Do they have that, right? Do they have that on their roster

where somebody off that bench or somebody that's not Carl Anthony Towns or Ant-Man or Julius Arando, you know, that can, you know, Jalen Bronson that can come off the bench and be that factor, the remaining of that series. I don't know. I don't know if they have that, right? And that's the biggest question, you know,

we about to find out. What are you expecting in game four? Because the first three games have been a snooze fest. They haven't been close. It's very disappointing. I mean, 42 points plus 20. I mean, you're like, bro, these are supposed to be the two best teams

in the Western Conference. And they're losing by an average of probably 20 points a game. That's not good. Again, I'm not even, I love the offensive flow of things, right? I think offensive, high numbers is good, but in the playoffs, I think defensive strategy, right, is the most important part that we should be seeing more. To get beat by 40 or 30 plus in the playoffs is crazy to me. Crazy. It's fucking crazy to me, bro. I just, I can't digest that.

And I'm as a, if you watch, and I'm watching as a fan, I'm like, yo, how does this happen? You know, everything about this roster, right? I mean, the Scott report is immense. I mean, you guys know, you know exactly what- Yes. Everything. quarterback, hold the ball.

Like it's like you- What routes he like to run, splits he like to run him from, down a distant area of feel red zone backed up middle of the field formation. Every time it's a trip set two by one, three by one, empty backfield. And then, you know, the funny thing about it, and then even though you have all that information that you need, you can have all the information you need and study, watch film,

but you still gotta execute it once you get out there. Absolutely. You gotta execute it once you get out there. That's why I'm hoping, how I see, I see the next game going. I think the wolves are probably gonna win again, but it has to come from the exact same way it did the first time.

It all started with him. It all started with him. It all started- They better win. Nobody there right away, you gotta be aggressive. But if you lose this next game, you go down three one. You going home when you go back to OKC. Yeah, I think it was 100%. It's a must win for both Minnesota and Indiana.

Right? Wow. It's a must win, bro. I think you put too much at risk if you don't win those games. And as I was dead and impossible, you know, about the Minnesota, not about to go to OKC and win down three, one, or even win the series. But, you know, it's interesting to see, you know, what's happening. I like games like tonight, whereas it's the score is tight, the energy is, you know, everybody's sitting on the edge. Nobody want to see a game where the damn commentators got to make up stuff to talk about, you know, in the third quarter.

Right. Yeah. But that's great. Talk about. Yeah, they talk about when they played way back when. No, let's keep the focus on this game. Right. But I mean, you got to that and sometimes that's you got that's why that that's why you gotta be great at storytelling. Because every game is not gonna be nip-tuck. And then you gotta find ways to try to keep the fans entertained the best you possibly can. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures

and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold,

connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.

Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like An Angeli are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After the Lakers got bounced, JJ Reddick emphasized that the team needed to be in championship shape. While he didn't mention names, many took the comments of the clear message to Luca.

Well weeks later, Luca made a significant public appearance. Uh, Luca made his first significant public appearance by attending Real Madrid's basketball game and posted these on IG. You think that's AI? AI? That's what my dad says. I is no way. Hell, if he lost that week that fast, why the hell he ain't doing it during the

season? Hey, that's it. And that's what I'm, Hey, I don't, I don't care what it looks like right now. I'm talking about when he come back to play. That's what it looks like this when he come back to play. Hey, hold on. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey a question. Okay, you can't take that as an NBA player, right? How many weeks they've been out of season? What, three, two, if that?

A month. It ain't been that damn long for him to look like that. It ain't been that long for you to lose all that weight like that. I'm telling you, he probably took that Olympic stuff. I'm telling you. Man, you know what's crazy? Like I've watched him, like when you watch him

play with his national team, he always looks thinner. He does. Then he comes back to the United States and it's like he's eating yeast rolls and pasta. But the American food, I mean, you look at Europeans, they're not as big as Americans. It's something about the food. He eatin', hell, he eatin' a lot of food.

I mean, you don't, I mean, if you go to Europe, you're not gonna see as many, and you know, people that's a little heavier. You don't see a whole bunch of them. Yeah, so he's doing something, man. I don't know if it's the... Now, J.O., you know this. Their bodies are gonna be their bodies.

They're not gonna be sculpted. They're not gonna have abs. They're not gonna have caps on their shoulders. They're not gonna be sculpted. They're not gonna have abs. They're not gonna have caps on their shoulders. They're not gonna have that much. They all look alike. I've never seen a European player with muscles. You look at Jokic. You look at Luca. You look at Manu. You look at Zubac. You look at any international player. Tell me the what. So bonus. Tell me the what. You say, okay. Caps on his shoulders ripped up calves they just that's how they look. There's only one that's Giannis that I think is yeah

Giannis got that Nigerian base there's a difference you know my base is based in Nigeria so he comes from the foundation, that stock. Right. It's a little different than what the Europeans, what Luca and Jokic and Manu and all those guys came out of. But he looks good. But like I said, I don't worry about a guy right now and he ain't gotta play for another four or five months. I wanna see him look like this when he come back. Why, it's strange that he would say that now

if it wasn't a lot of truth to everything we heard coming out of Dallas. Yeah. And, you know, when you look at him, you got kinesio tape everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And like he's up. Not at 25. And I mean, not at 20. You shouldn't have kinesio tape. You shouldn't be, hey, put together like, hey, like my girl, my coffee table. We going up. You shouldn't look like that. You know what I'm saying? We had that black electrical tape holding up everything.

Right. No, but I'm saying, he had Kinesio tape at 23, 24. He's 26 now. I'm like, bro, why you need all that to hold you together? But you remember now, he missed 91, 92 games the last two seasons. Yeah. You're right.

He's missed a lot of games at an early age. And, you know, it clearly is something behind when you let a talent like that leave at 25 years old, it's a hell of a lot of things gotta be happening behind the scenes. You know, to say, you know what, we're not even going after draft picks. You know, we're not, we just wanna go get, you know,

get one player that- Basically it's a one for one. One for one. And we, and we ain't gonna have no more conversations. So that, that said a lot. Um, but you can see what Dallas trying to go with it. It's a risk. You got them number one pick this year. Uh, we'll see how that turns out, you know, with the rest of the bigs.

I do believe that they're going to have to probably move some other, some, some pieces to bring on another piece. You're not going to have Kyrie to start. And they, hell, you probably won't have Kyrie the first pieces to bring on another piece. You're not gonna have Kyrie to start. Hell, you probably won't have Kyrie the first half of the season next year. Exactly, I don't think Kyrie coming back in January. Well, you know, he do a lot of meditating

and a lot of, you know. Yeah, I mean, it's easy on him. He got a tour in ACL, and it's not like it's a big man that he's gotta get up and down. Kyrie is thin-framed. I mean, theoretically, he could, I mean, it could be seven months. Cause when he turned out, he towards me at what late March? Yes. So April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December.

Yeah. I see him probably coming back late December by the early, early January jail. Yeah. He hadn't been, but when you think about it, he hadn't been a player that will rush back anyway, no right in his career So he's gonna make sure he's ready to go. But again when he's right, he's he's he's one of the best Oh, he's spectacular. What do you think the Lakers need to do? What is their big is there somebody you think the Lakers can get or should get in order to give them a great? Opportunity to compete for a title because at this point in time, I mean, that's all LeBron is really playing for. Here's my question is, can the Lakers be the Lakers with LeBron having the ball in his hand at a lesser level?

Right? Can, you know, and even with Yokeage, I mean, with Luca, can you have a third person that can take some of the pressure off of those two? Right? Because the thing, the problem is when those two have the ball in their hand the majority of the time, and obviously LeBron is a different monster. You know, he can make things happen, get downhill, the ball does stop. And so can you have somebody else that make life easier for those two, right? Because LeBron is 40 plus years old, right?

He's not going to be able to carry the load like he's typically carried, even though he can still go for 30 or 40. But you're going to need a third person that can really make things easier. And I'm not sure how they do it with the cap issues that they have, but we'll see. But I don't think they have enough right now. I think they're gonna be seven, eighth, ninth, playing, type of deal, if they don't make a move.

Oh, they gotta make a move. I think the thing is, first of all, this is what we know. LeBron is better without the ball than Luca. Luca cannot play off the ball. LeBron can play off the ball because you're not putting Luca in the dunker spot. You're not gonna do, there's certain things you're not gonna do.

And prior to this playoffs, Austin Reeves was that guy that gave him a break. Cause we saw Austin Reeves go get 40 against Indiana and without Luca and LeBron. So I don't know what happened. The reports are that he had an injury. He got nicked at some point in time, late in the season,

or maybe got nicked in that playoff series. And he wasn't as impactful as he needed to be. I thought they had an opportunity in game, what was that? Was that game three? Yeah, game three. But he ended up playing LeBron them 46 minutes and he just wore them out. You got to get, bro, you played, first of all,

LeBron had already played like 41 minutes in game two. And then you turn around and burning 46 in game three. You got, look, I don't care what 40 year old, he cannot. Yeah. There ain't been a 40 year old created that can play in a playoff game after coming off a 41 minute. But that's what that's. So Phoenix had that idea of that third person being Bradley Beal. Obviously Bradley Beal hadn't been healthy, but I'm talking about an impact player, you know, coming in and supposedly having that, that level of

impact on the team where those guys, you know, hell, maybe Brian be able to take a couple more nights off, right? Yeah. And impactful. I just think, you know, right now it's only downhill now because you Brian is putting up some, so many significant significant numbers from just scoring, having to score, assist, rebound, set the table, turn the bus on, feed the kids. Yeah, he's still 24, 8 and 8, but the problem is they need a big.

Because you can't start Rudy at the 5 and LeBron at the 4 or LeBron at the 5 and Rudy at the 4 because you see Rudy Rudy Gobert look like Shaq, 27 and 24. You can't, they're just too small. Jackson Hayes, you can only, I mean, for whatever reason, JJ's like, hell, to hell with it. Jackson, we're not gonna even play you in game five. And he only played marginal minutes in game four.

So with that being said, I thought the Mark Williams, I don't know why they nullified the trade, but I thought he would have been a big addition for them jail because they need a big. Luca leads a law threat. If you go back and look study Luca, look at Luca. He's his best when he has a law threat. Yeah. But I'm gonna tell you right now, man, like I don't know.

I don't know why the NBA is getting away from the veteran stuff. If you got a guy like, I used Dwight Howard. He always seemed to be in shape, you know, before a guy to get rebounds, block shots and defend him. And he did a better job against Rudy Gobert and Jackson Hayes or anybody else did. 100% right? I just think that. He's a bigger body too.

Bigger body. Right. And he's a savvy veteran. He's been one of the best defenders, you know defenders all the time when they come down to protecting that rim and getting a rebound in the basketball. But again, most teams don't seem to wanna go get veteran players. And I'm not sure, the NBA needs to put in a rule right now

because if you want the product, when you talk about the issues with people watching the NBA and the ratings going down, it's because you got the young leading the young. So you don't have to have, you can take a role of a player coach role, right? And take that off the cat. The NBA can do anything, right?

If you get the union, they can make it work. People in place that helps develop, and you look at Jackson Hayes and they can make it work. People in place that helps develop, and you look at Jackson Hayes and they signed another- Alex Lin. Alex Lin, right? Did he bring- Yes. He should be the tallest high school

or college coach next year. But that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. If you have, let's just call it the White Howard. Let's use him for example, right? Yes. You have somebody in there mentoring these young boys and getting them and helping them understand the importance

of everything they do or supposed to. Then you in a better situation. Right, you're not saying you gotta go pay them $5 million. But just, you know, just don't put a veteran keep him off the team because you have to pay him a little bit more because he's a veteran. I just create a role or Javel or Javel McGee, Javel McGee was available. That's what I'm saying, bro. Why not?

I mean, so, so is the NBA doing similar to what the NFL is doing also on? Yeah. They really going young. They going young and doing away with all the veterans outside of a specific quarterback that is still getting opportunity to play regardless of age, but it's like the NFL, the NBA. Yeah, because you know the bed minimum, Ocho,

with a certain number of years is a million dollars. Well, I can get a guy right out of college or a first year guy and pay him 300, 400,000, save 600. But what's 600,000 when you make him 300, 400,000. Right. Save 600. What's, but what's 600,000 when you bring it, when you get, when you make it 300 million. Right. I don't, I don't get that. Well, I guess the question in basketball, I mean, is, you know, do you, do you really want to win?

I mean, does it matter? I mean, you know, most of, most of the, you know, basketball is not like football where you have historical, you know, families that's involved with these teams. Right. Basketball is not that right. Basketball, by the fact, the majority of the NBA now is new ownership. Right. And so from a perspective, you know, what is it that, what is the real purpose?

Right. Is it, you know, invest into, you know, invest into a team, let the value grow and then sometime down the road, sell it. Get up off it. Right. Yeah. Because that's, that's the difference. Because if you look at the NFL, a lot of these, a lot of these owners,

now some of these owners now have other things, but for the longest time, uh, JL and Ocho, these were family runs business. These were mom and pop shops. That's all they had. Now you look at guys, teams, people that buy teams now, that's not their number one business. That team is not their number one business. The Aldersons that just bought the Dallas Mavericks, they're gambling. That's their number one business.

You look at a guy that bought the Sacramento Kings, you look at Steve Balmer, who bought the Clippers. That was not his number one business. Now that's what he does now, but he's worth a hundred billion. So he spent two, so that's not what it is. Not like the NFL. It's not like the Hunts. Now the Hunts have other things, but it's a family, but for the most part, NBA is a lot now. They're not family. These young, these tech guys, these guys that made money investing in Silicon Valley and things like that, they're the

one that's buying the team. They're not like, I don't know. I'm trying to think who's the oldest. So you're not going to find somebody like the, like the, uh, like, uh, the McClaskey's that owned the Bears. Her dad, Virginia McCassey, she just passed away. Her dad, George Hallis, founded the Bears, passed it down. You ain't gonna find that in NBA. You're not gonna find the Rooney's like the Steelers on since 1933. You're not gonna find that like the Marrows.

When did Dolan buy the Knicks? Oh, was the Knicks down to him? No, he had it. I think he had his dad. His dad, yeah. He made the only one. But he might, yeah, he might be, no, what'd you call him? Jeannie Buss. Her dad, I think he bought the team in 79. So he might be the longest standing.

That was his dad, right? Yeah, he passed it on to here. The Browns, Browns, the Browns too, huh? Yeah, but we know Jimmy had, yeah, no, bingles. Mike Brown, he got passed out to his dad. You're like, Earthsay, he took her for his dad. So they just passed it down. Now these tech people coming in there

with four, five, six billion dollars, and it's gone. Yeah. Yep. You know, the Waltons just brought the Broncos. I mean, he's worth 100 billion. What's, what's 100? What's, what's 4 billion here?

We just saw Josh Harris. He just bought, he just purchased the commanders last year, over six, what, six and a half billion. He also owned the 76ers. So it's not, it's, it's different. It's a different time now, but I agree with you, J.O. have a the vessel in the team to help these young guys understand and navigate their way through I think I think they're doing a better job The PA of both PAs of having guys understand money like bro, you know, not a doctor. You're not a lawyer

You're not gonna have a 20-year career The average year the average career is about three and a half years. Yep. Three and a half. So even when you factor in Tom Brady, they played 23 and you factor in Peyton Manning that played 19, 18, 19 and Drew Reeves and Rogers and all these guys. A lot of guys just play in one year. A lot of guys not even play it at all. So it comes whittle it down to three and a half years. Yeah. Bro, you gonna be 25. Hmm. playing at all. So it comes whittle it down to three and a half years.

Yeah. Bro, you gonna be 25. And that's the job that you're probably going to have for the next 20 years. It's not going to be in the NBA, the MLB or, or, or, you know, whatever the case may be, whatever the profession you starting in, there's a good chance by the time you're 25, you're going to have another job and it's not going to be a professional athlete. Yeah, I think too, man, you know, football is obviously significantly different than basketball, right?

You guys draft for exact need. Yes. And every pick is a valued pick, right? Sometimes right now in basketball, you know, they're drafting, you know, best available, even though you might have, you might drop the point guard, you got three already on the roster. Right. And so, you know, I think that's the difference in basketball where, you know, when you talk about those two or three years or four years, it's a change in the guard happening in the NBA because you don't get a lot of time. And if they send your ass down to the G League and your lottery pick got already telling you where you at and what they thinking.

Yeah. The Volume. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content,

the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.