Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: The Nuggets beat the Thunder to force a game 7, KD has an interesting take on X!

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson & former champion Shawn “Matrix” Marion react to Nikola Jokic and the Denver Nuggets beat Shai Gilgeous Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder to force a game 7, Kevin Durant and Emanuel Acho go at it on X, and much more!01:47 - Introduction05:30 - Nuggets v OKC21:41 - NBA execs skeptical of Flagg developing into a star49:00 - KD’s response to Emanuel Acho on twitter(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Volume Hello ladies and gentlemen and thank you for joining us. As the Denver Nuggets force a game seven with a 119-107 victory over AOKC. They got production from where they needed it. Nikola Jokic was sensational tonight. 29 points, 14 rebounds, eight assists. He got 25 points from Jamal Murray, 23 points from Christian Braun. But it was Strother off the bench that gave,

that was four-four from the free throw line and three or four from the three point line, four of eight from the field. They gave him 15 big points off the bench. And that was the difference as they win by 12, 119 to 107. Ocho, we've got a game seven game seven. I guess if you play a series sports, no, no, a phrase is more important than game seven. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap.

Y'all know me. I am your favorite. I'm Shannon Sharp, my partner and co-host, Liberty City legend, the bingo ring of fame honoree, the pro bowler, the all pro, that's Chad Ocho Cinco Johnson. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button

and go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed, wherever you get your podcast from. Every subscriber counts. We thank you for counting. We thank you for mattering. We also thank you for helping us matter. I don't know if you saw this today, Ocho, but our Netflix, YouTube came out with their Top 100 podcast.

Even though we're, huh, you saw it? No, I didn't see it. You know, I've been with all the rookies today. Talk to me, man. We are, Shay Shay and me, Media have two shows in the top 100. Club Shea Shea at number seven. Number 28 is Nightcap. Now, there are some bad, you know, the thing is on show, that's not really what we,

we getting better at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're going to get even better. But once we get back in our element, which is the NFL season, Yes, sir. We're going to climb back up in that top 10 like where we're supposed to be. Look it, you got to understand how good it is for that not to be our element obviously, and us doing what we're doing right now and still be at 28. 28 out of 100. And we're in front of some pods, Ocho, that basketball is their specialty.

So it just goes to show you that our fans, that they respect what we do, they support what we do, and they're going to tune into what we do. So we can't thank you guys enough. Also joining us, we have a very special guest to talk this game tonight. His nickname was The Matrix. He's a four-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA, an NBA champion with the Mavs. His number 31 jersey is retired with the Phoenix Suns. Ladies and gentlemen, here he is. Sean, the Matrix Marion. Matrix, what's going on, bro? You good?

What's up? What's up, Onk and Chad? What's good, man? We good, bro. Thanks for joining us. We'll get right to you in just a second. Please make sure you go check out Shade by La Portier. We do have it in stock.

It's the best tastingtesting BSOP premium cognac on the market. Now, if you cannot find it in a city or state near you, order it and we'll ship it directly to your door. Please drink responsibly and stay safe. Go follow my media company page on all of its platforms, Shade Shade Media, and my clothing company, 84. With 84 being spelled out, we do nice things like this. The link is pinned in the chat. Supplies are limited and once they're gone, they're gone. So please grab yours while supplies last.

Tickets for our Not Safe For Work Tour are on sale. Eight stops, Baltimore, Philly, Charlotte, Los Angeles, Miami, NYC, Chicago, and Detroit. Tickets can be found at sheyshamedia.com slash tour. found at sheyshamedia.com slash tour. That's sheyshamedia.com slash tour. Go get your tickets now and catch out your favorite and Ocho as we come to a city near you. Ah, Matrix, we got a game seven.

The Denver Nuggets do what I thought they would do. Going home, they whole serve and they force a game 7 119 to 107 you got great Contributions you got five guys in double figures led by Nikola Yocas 29 14 and 8 Jamar Murray had 25 8 assists Kristen Brown had 23 points 11 big rebounds. He had five assists Michael Porter, Jr He came to the party tonight. He didn't take many shots but he made the shots that he took. He made those count. He had 10 points

but it was Strother off the bench that gave him 15 big points. He was three of four from the three point line and four of eight from the free throw line, excuse me, from the field. Watching this game Matrix, what did you like about what you saw from the Nuggets? Because I thought they took control early in the first quarter and then they kind of let it slip away in the second quarter. They regained it in the third quarter and then went cruised home in the fourth quarter. It was tough nip and tuck, but they broke the game open. What did you like about what you saw from the Nuggets tonight?

Championship had agreed. You got two of the best closers in the game right now with a Joker and Murray, man. Murray stepped up big. You know, he came up, they say he was sick before the game, but man, you know, I think he's special, man. I think he don't get enough credit as he deserves, man. I think he, you can last two minutes to the game. That's a tough team to beat, man. You know what I like? I like the fact that they're really aggressive. They shot 32 free throws tonight.

So that tells me they're not, they weren't settling. They were trying to put pressure on the OKC defense. Know this is a very good defensive team. They got guys that can defend, they switch everything. They got two bigs that can protect the paint. You got Jalen Williams, who's a great defender, Lou Dort. You have Caruso, Isaiah Joe, Wiggins, Wallace. You got Jalen Williams, who's a great defender, Lou Dort. You have Caruso, Isaiah Joe, Wiggins, Wallace. You got guys, they got about six or seven guys

that can defend the wing and they switch everything because they don't wanna try to, they don't wanna help and leave guys wide open. And I thought the Nuggets did a great job tonight, Matrix, of putting the ball on the floor, trying to get the ball to the rim and they drew a lot of fouls. They shot 32 free throw attempts. It was 27 to 32 and the the Thunder was only 10 of 16 and

Shay Gill just shot 11 of the 16 free throws. I thought Jalen Williams, he was off tonight. He was 3 of 16 from the floor, 0 of 4 from 3 and he didn't get to the free throw line at all. Hardenstein, he doesn't really normally get to the free throw line. Lou Dort didn't get to the free throw line. Lew Dort didn't get to the free throw line. But when you only got three guys and they take all your free all 16, that tells me you're not nearly aggressive enough and maybe you settle a little bit more for threes than you should have. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, they need somebody else to step up tonight. You know, I think when you look at this game, you know, they are a young team. You know, I think they're growing. They're getting better as they keep playing. But, man, you know, I think the execution of Denver just prevailed and they just, man, they played smart and they took care of the ball when they needed to. They had too many mistakes out there, young mistakes.

You know, it's a mentality of these young teams that they, I love, okay, see, they play hard. You know, they play great with their hands, but I think sometimes they just seem like they're going ethogically going through the motions at times. And they just get off the, they pump the brakes a little bit when they need to be putting their foot on the pedal and taking it to another level. They showing signs they can do it.

They are resilient team, but the mistakes catching up with them. They turn the ball a little too much. Yeah. And they're not a three point shooting team, Ocho. They were 11 of 40 tonight. They were 27 and a half percent. Julian Strauther, he hit more threes than any player on OKC. And so we knew that, look, the big guns, they got to fire tonight. Joker and Murray, they did that.

Now, where else can we get some production? Because they needed those points points because in the fourth quarter He had some big threes. He got a couple of rebounding put some put backs because you look at it Okay, sees bench is better is way is better than the nuggets bench And so they needed some production off that bench and Julius Strother gave that to them 15 points a career playoff high three or four from the three point line I thought Kristen Brown was family fabulous tonight 23 points Oh Joe 11 rebounds five assists three steals. He was three or six from the three point line

He had more points than j-dub He had more rebounds than heart and Stein more steals than Caruso and more made threes than shape He's the youngest player in franchise history with a 20 10 10, five, and three game in a playoff game. Jamar Murray has 25 points in playoff games. I mean, think about it. Jamar Murray has more 25 point playoff games than Devin Booker, Jalen Brunson, Joel Embiid, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Bill Russell,

Derek Rose, Penny Hardway, Johnston Billups, and Vince Carter. We don't look at Jamar like that because he's never been on the all-NBA team, he's never been an All-Star. But as metrics as you said, he can ball, and the moment, he's like James Worth it. He's a big game player. The bigger the game, the better he plays.

He knew his back was against the wall. If I don't play well, the series is over in six games. Let's get it back to OKC and let's see who can handle the pressure more, better, we or them. I love the way they played tonight. I love the championship medal, as Matric mentioned, the Nugget Show. What did you like about what you saw from the Nugget Socho? I mean, obviously they played well.

They suffocated, they suffocated. I'm just gonna say it. I feel they suffocated the goddamn, the Thunder. It was one on four. I'm gonna call it like that. It was, no, one on five actually, because Shea was the only one that showed up tonight. Even though he had 28 points,

but he only had two assists and he had four turnovers. But Joker doing what he does and goddamn Jamal Murray with 25 tonight. Listen, they set the tone you expect a game like this You want to be able a young team like that that can that's up and down the floor that play good defense You want to be able to close out a game like this on you want to be able to but obviously the Nuggets having that Championship pedigree and in being that they've been in this position before They were able to pull this game off the fact that she the fact that was the game of this and this much Importance and she was the only one to show up tonight and nobody else did

Lou Dort Harden Stein Jalen Williams. They played they played bad. They played bad I don't know if if maybe they might have been tired they make they may want wanna get the game seven and then just pull a rabbit out and had a sudden. No, you can't chance that, Ocho, because you're a rolled ankle, you're an elbow, you're a bad play, you're a push, you lose your composure. You're one play away from being out of this thing.

And so you never put off tomorrow what you can get done today. Now, I get that in front of our home crowd, but your home crowd doesn't guarantee you a win. And so that's why I would be out. Look, and plus the Nuggets have been in game seven. They've been here. They've done that. They're battle tested. They got a three-time league MVP,

and they got one of the best big game finishers in Jamal Murray in the NBA. So I wouldn't want to test that. I thought Chet played really good today. He was 8 of 14. He had 11 rebounds, but Jalen Williams, who's their second best player, did not have his best game. He had six points with 16 shots, Hocho.

He was 0-4 from the three and he didn't get to the free throw line. So that tells me he was settling. He wasn't nearly aggressive as he needed to be because he can put the ball on the floor and he settled for those three point shots which the Nuggets will gladly accept. 16 free throws, 43 attempts, that's not fun to basketball.

They need to be somewhere between 25 and 30 free throw attempts and keep that, the three point attempts somewhere like, if you get to 30, you can live with that. You can live with that. But they got to 40 and they only made 11, they weren't nearly aggressive enough. I think that was a problem for them tonight.

But the Nuggets were plenty, plenty aggressive with 32 free throw attempts. Looking at this game, so projecting Matrix going to a game seven. What do you think OKC need to do to keep the Nuggets from coming into their building in a game seven and walking out there going to the Western Conference Finals?

Who would they say show up? I mean, I think it's gonna be simple to them. And it's not gonna be simple, but you need your role players play better at home. So that's gonna be that, that's what home court advantage is right now in this postseason. So it's been, isn't it paying off,

but both teams have won on both their home courts. So- Correct. Oh, listen, that seven game, man, you just don't know, man. It's been is it paying off but both teams have won them both on both day home courts. So Corroed. Oh listen that seven game man. You just you just don't know man You got you throwing up in the air and like listen, let's go to war. You got come up You got come to fight, you know You just don't know because our bronze been been been struggling the last three games, you know saying two or three games Yeah, and they should know he found his shot in his shot tonight shot tonight so look Gordon's have been playing great you didn't have a great night yeah he's quite off course I think what it's called man how many points or Gordon's for a five he had five points on

two or seven but did I see him grab did you think yeah it looked like he grabbed his hamstring yeah that left hammy started bothering him because he was doing it you know he was grabbing a little bit now Yeah left one the left the left side. I Amphibian in the play with if he hurt now, that's that's oh, I don't want that I don't want to see no injuries in the postseason But man that's that can that can change the dynamic of everything, you know saying on certain teams No

He's a big part to their team and what he's done for this, uh, for the postseason and they helped them win the championship two years ago. So it's going to be interesting to see who shows up. I mean, it's like, it ain't no more schemes. Ain't no more drawn up this and that. They know what it does. They know when you, they know when they go, they know when fight going to the back. You know, right.

So let's, let's, let's go to war, baby. Yeah. And who? And who? So let's go to war, baby. Yeah. I thought the Nuggets, I thought the Nuggets, I thought the Nuggets bench, they got 27 points from their bench to offset the 30 points, because normally the Thunder bench

blows the Nuggets bench away. Yeah. Tonight, it was only a plus three. Well, you could live with that, because the Nuggets are only gonna Yeah. Tonight, it was only a plus three. You could live with that, because the Nuggets are only gonna play like three guys off the bench. Russ, Walson, and Strother. Those are the only two, those are only three guys that's gonna get off the bench. Now, we know OKC, they're gonna play five guys

coming off the bench. That's what they do. That's what they normally do. Tonight, they played a few more, but it was in mop up duty. So I don't really count those. But you look at guys that Wallace played 27 minutes, Wiggins played 12 minutes, Caruso played 27 minutes, and Jay Williams played 14 minutes.

So that's one, two, three, four. So they played nine guys. Sometimes occasionally they'll play 10. Actually they played, well, you can look at, they played 10 cause Isaiah Joe played eight minutes. All the other guys played one minute. That was mop up duty. So, you know, they're normally gonna run nine,

10 guys at you, Ocho. And that's where they kind of do a lot of the damage because they got guys that can go get buckets against your second unit. You look at Caruso, you look at Carson Wallace, you look at Wiggins and Isaiah Joe, those guys can score. And so that's normally the deciding factor is that when they take their starters out, OKC take their starters out,

their second unit can get some distance. Yeah. Or they can claw back, if they're behind, they can claw back some of the digging to the lead that you have. But I thought the Nuggets bench played extremely well tonight. I think Coach Adelman is gonna be very pleased with the performance that he got. You know, Jamal Murray got a little careless

with the basketball late in the ball game. I think he had like two or three consecutive turnovers and got the game a little bit more interesting than probably what it should have been late. But I love the way they regathered themselves and it was able to close this game out by 12. So we have a game seven in the Weston Conference semifinals, the Denver Nuggets by the score of 119 to 107

over the OKC Thunder force a game seven and that game will be on Sunday. And we'll be right here to you. The Nuggets will play in game seven for the seventh time in the Jokic era. Sunday would be their first game seven on the road. They had a road game during the bubble, but that doesn't count because everybody was on the road.

Oh Joe, who you like in this game seven? You taking the Thunder, you taking the Nuggets? Listen, the Nuggets have already been there before. I wanna see Shay win it. I wanna see the MVP get into it. I think the difference in this game is gonna have to be the bench. It got to be the bench.

The God damn bench got the show up. She ain't gonna do what he does. Jalen Williams, shit, they gonna do what they do. I think the bench is gonna be the difference. They have no choice. I mean, game seven for one, and I'm giving the edge to the Thunder because they gonna be at home.

They gonna be at home, so I got them. And if you wanna put a little money on it, let me know. Man, I told you it was concerning to me cause I saw Aaron Gordon grabbing that hamstring. Yeah. And that's not a good sign. And I understand they got, they don't play again, Ocho until Sunday.

If that hamstring a little, hopefully it would like a little dehydration and it's just grabbing on me, just fathoming it up. It is not a strain of anything. So let's, let's just hope, hope for that. Let's, let's, you know, pray for the best. Yeah. That's all, that's all we can do at this point in time now. But they got the work cut out for that. Let's pray for the best. Yeah. That's all we can do at this point in time now.

But they got their work cut out for them. If Gordon was 100% healthy and I didn't see him grab that hamstring, I probably would have went with the Nuggets. Wait. Playing the end? It doesn't matter. Okay, see? I like Yo Kitchen and Murray to pull this thing out.

All I want to do is get the lead. See, I want to keep your crowd out of the game, and Matrix, you know this, the longer I can keep your crowd out of the game, the better my chances are, because the home team's gonna feed off that energy. But I ain't gonna give you nothing to cheer about. I'm gonna come out, jump out on you,

10-nothing, make your call to time out, you hit a bucket, then we gonna go on another first, and so we gonna keep the crowd on their hands. We gonna have the crowd waiting for you to give them something to cheer about. But that moment is never gonna come. Go ahead, Matrix. I tell you what, OKC is one of the most loudest arenas I've ever played in. It's gonna be rockin' in there.

So, uh, I can't wait. I'm excited for it. You know what I'm saying? I've been in that arena and there's a hostile environment in there. And I'm telling you, it's gonna be off the chain. I think OKC gonna pull it's gonna be off the chain. I think OKC gonna pull it out for some reason though. See, told you, huh? Made for This Mountain is a podcast

that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify.

The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into it. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional wellbeing, and climb your personal mountain.

Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding,

but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on everybody's business from Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Max Chafkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving

into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold,

connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.

Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No.

No one was let go. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions. In just a second, I'm going to ask a... I'm Leon Neyvok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane,

I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Music Matrix, your former team won the NBA draft, Lardy. It doesn't seem like a tough decision who they'll take, but now some NBA executives are reportedly skeptical

that Cooper Flagg will develop, whether or not he will develop into a superstar. According to Howard Beck of the Ringer, one anonymous exec said that while Flagg has a high chance of becoming an all-star, he isn't in the same class as other recent number one overall picks such as Victor Wimiyama and Zion Williamson in terms of being a can't-miss generational prospect. Another executive suggested Flagg may be a very good player but not a star. While the third said flag does have superstar potential, but they aren't sure he'll be a future MVP candidate.

I think those are all the guys that want the Mavericks to trade Cooper flag to him. I mean, hey, They hate the already going... The metrics have been playing this game for as long as you haven't been and seeing some of the other great players that played this game. What do you think the ceiling is for Cooper flag? Man, you know what? I don't know what the ceiling is, but I think he's so talented and so skilled right now. The year he had in Duke, I mean listen Scott's the limit for the young man. I think as long as he come in put the work in and we've seen samples of what he can do when he plays against the USA basketball team last year. USA, yep. So the work is there. Now it's gonna be a different test now having to go against these, go against these players night in night out but I

mean it becomes the Mavericks and we Mavericks draft him number one. I think he come into a great organization in a great situation. You know what I'm saying? He's not gonna be the number one guy. He's not the face. No, no, not the focal point. And he got some great veteran leaders on that team that can help him. And it's going to be an easier transition. You know, a lot of times people be, a lot of times good teams don't ever get the first

pick. You know what I'm saying? Teams, you know, that's because you're a lottery team, don't mean you're a bad team. You just had a bad, correct, that bad season when things didn't fall your way. So a lot of times, a lot of good, some good players come into teams that are bad. You know what I'm saying?

You come into a situation where they want you to be the guy immediately. And sometimes that don't work out for a lot of guys. You know what I'm saying? It's that much pressure, it's harder. There's too much everything going on, too many moving parts. But he got a good chance to

go into a good organization, good coach, J kid, my guy, you know what I'm saying? And a man playing with Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Clay Thompson, a young, a young group of guys is talented and they hungry. So I mean, I think, uh, you know, as we sit here and talk about all these teams and stuff, a lot of, a lot of teams are Either one player or one and a half player away from going to the finals I say this every year all the time that that the parody is so close during down the league that you know say All the tickets are getting hot at the right time

Right. Oh Joe. What do you think Cooper flag ceiling is because he's a lot of exec says yeah I think he'll be a good player, but not a superstar. I think he'd be good, but he's not Zion. He's not Victor Wimby-Nyama. We don't see him as this generational talent like can't miss. And then other guys like, well, I don't see him as an MVP candidate. There've been a lot of great players that didn't win the MVP. Well, hell, they said the same thing about Joker.

You see where he went, right? Yeah. Luke probably said the same thing about Joker. You see where he went, right? Yeah. He probably said the same thing about him. But obviously, you watch Cooper Flag, he's looking at what he's done at Duke, right? And you watch him play against the elite talent at the college level. But then you also watch what he was able to do

against the USA basketball team before they prepared for the Olympics. And you understand he has all the tools in the toolbox. He's someone that works hard. And obviously, him going to Dallas and not having to be the face and just being a part of that team and being able to work on his game and evolve his game to point to where he actually can become a superstar. I mean how many times do you have a player that's a generation a generational talent and

comes out and is a Wim Bayama or Zion Williams Williamson? Those are special talents that come around every so often. Everyone else that becomes elite or MVP caliber, they have to work at it. Right. We have to give him an opportunity to work on his game because everybody doesn't just come out and already be, all right, the chosen one.

There's only so many LeBrons. Yeah, just because I think the thing is, and make a correct me if I'm wrong, a lot of times until we know this, it's like, oh, he number one, he transcended, he generational, he's franchise altering. No, somebody's gotta go number one. Yeah, every year.

So just because you go number one, that doesn't mean you're gonna be Kareem or Magic or LeBron or one of these other historically great players that has been selected number one. And so I think that that needs to be, that needs to be the thought process. People think just because you go number one, oh, he's about to be Peyton Manning.

Oh, he's about to be John Elway. No, that's not necessarily true. Somebody has to go number one. And maybe just because he went number one, that doesn't mean he's gonna be franchise altering. It could, he could, he could. Because look, we can say that there have been plenty of guys that they had the tag can't miss and they missed.

Yeah. And there've been some guys that like, damn, I didn't see that. Cause if you saw that, like you said, Ocho, if everybody would have thought Yoki was going to be what he turned out, he wouldn't have been in the second round. He'd have been the number one pick of the draft. Exactly. Exactly. Because he wasn't that just in the second round. He'd have been the number one pick of the draft. Exactly. Exactly. And because he wasn't, that just goes to show you.

It's, you never know what a guy has in here. You never know. You can look at it and say, oh man, that joke was 6'10". He can jump out the gym. He can shoot the three. He can get to the mini. Whatever the case may be. But what does he have in here?

How much does it mean to him? Cause some guys it means more to others and they're willing to work a little harder in order to achieve it. Some guys that it comes natural to Matrix and they don't work nearly as hard and you're like, man, I sure wish I had that guy's talent. With his talent and my work ethic, hell, I could have been this. What do you think, Matrix? Man, listen, y'all hitting on a lot of points, man.

I think one of the biggest things I'm a firm believer in is in order to be successful, you gotta sacrifice. How much do you want to sacrifice to get to that position and get to that next level? I think he has, like you said, he has all the potential. One of the things I, you didn't realize, I guess, during the history and everybody's talking about, he gonna be the, when it happens, he will be the first white boy to actually go number one in a draft in a long time

think about that yeah we had most of all the other all the all the white players in the league now are european or black yeah and that's not something you're joking all of them he's the first american uh yeah american boy gonna be going number one in draft. That's tough. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Golanari.

Golanari went number one. Yeah. Did he go number one? Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. He went to Toronto. Yeah. Toronto.

Yeah. But that's a lot, man. I'm saying a lot, but he's tough, man. I wish him the best. I mean, I think he has a tremendous upside to the young man. We'll stick with number one. It's gonna be exciting to watch Oh yeah from Indiana Who? Yeah, the last the last American born white player to go number one overall was Kent Benson

What year was that? I think he's the one that got in a fight with Kareem and Kareem broke He elbowed Kareem and Kareem turned around and punched him in the face It broke his nose. Yeah, what year was that though? 45 years ago 1977 yeah, cuz we're walking walk. What was walking in 70? 70 self 76. Yes, I mean I was five 76 76 who was 75 I was at that draft. Yeah, so that's- He wasn't even born yet, but okay.

No, we weren't. No, he was born. Yeah, so it's- Walden was 70, it was the 74 draft. Yeah, that's special, man. But yeah, that's a long time. Long time, man. Listen, I think he's special, though. I wish him all the luck, man. Listen, I think he's special though.

I wish him all the luck, man. I hope he's able to excel and do everything he wants. I heard he got a great work ethic. I heard he's a great kid. Barney Arnie, you have to get it with him. I heard he's a special kid. I ain't met him yet. I heard great things about him already.

And I was going to see him. I went to the combine yesterday. Yeah, that's for 20. I ain't seen him yet. So I was hoping to run into him, but I ain't bump into him. So, yeah, it was on the corner. Metric, you was at the right team. It was Andre Bargnani. Yeah, Bargnani was number one overall in 2006 to Toronto.

You had the right team, but I knew I was like, no, it was, I got it confused, but it was Andre Bargnani in 2006. I played with Andre no, it was, I got it confused, but it was André, it was Berniani in 2006. I played with André. But he was foreign born. When we talk about American born players, hell, there hadn't been a whole lot of them. I mean, you got to go, I mean, you go back to Walton in 74,

you got Ken Benson in 76. So it's not like it's, you know, it's not been a whole lot of American born white players that's been selected number one overall. But if it'll be a huge accomplishment for Cooper Flagg, I'm sure he'd be very excited, his family, his hometown state would be very excited to see finally, finally, an American-born white player

be selected number one at all. It's interesting to see, because to see the way he plays Ocho because of the size that he has, what is it? 6'8, 6'9? Yeah. He can handle the ball. Yeah. Because he led Duke and everything, scoring rebounds,

assists, block shots, steals. So it shows that he's well-rounded. He could do basically everything. Yep, a little bit of everything. And but the difference is he was coming into Duke is one thing coming into the NBA where there are guys just as skilled, just as tall, can jump just as high, can run just as fast, can shoot just as good, can play defense just as good, can do everything you do just as good.

That's what's up. That's what you, when you start getting the levels, you say, okay, you go to JV and then you go to high school and then you go to college or you go to the G League or whatever the case may be. But once you get to the pros, which is NBA, NFL, MLB, whatever the case, whatever sport that you play, you understand like there's levels to this.

Yes, it is. And people feed, this is what I tell them, that's it, these are grown men. This is how they feed their family. This is how kids go to private school. This is how college tuition get paid. This is how to make sure the wife, then go, oh, so this kid doesn't have to work.

This is how mom or grandma get the house. Bro, guys are not gonna allow you to take food off their table. No. Hey, they bringing it. Cause that's how I look. I don't know how you guys posted on your show, but I looked at, oh, you try to take my kids out of school. You try to get my grandmother have to go back to do a

little odds and ends jobs. Oh no, bro, that ain't finna happen. You know, that's our old school mentality though. That's our generation. That ain't the new generation mentality. Really? They don't think like that. Nah. No. No. No. No. But that's, that's, that's our train of thought because you know that we were survivors back then. These now, it's a big entitlement now these days. But some of these kids, they're so special ones that truly believe in putting the work in. And I think he's one of those guys. I think, listen, a lot of us now, we know what the game gave us

and the opportunity it gave for us ourselves, our families and our friends and everybody. We've been able to truly bless. But sometimes a lot of people take these things for granted and it can be over just as fast as it came. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Let me ask you this,

because we've been hearing a lot about this. Nico Harrison trades Luka Doncic. Now the ratings goes, hey, why he's in LA, and now he trades Luka and all of a sudden, and the number two pick goes to Utah, which means the number one pick goes to the Dallas Mavericks. Do you believe the draft is rigged? The draft lottery is rigged?

No, I don't. I don't. It's just sometimes things work out in their favor, man. I think, you know, if you look at it, if it was rigged, the draft lottery is rigged. No, I don't. I don't. It's just sometimes things work out in their favor, man. I think, you know, if you look at it, if it was rigged, then why are teams tanking purposely to try to get the number one pick? Most of the teams that tank, what team has ever tanked, purposely tanked,

and got the number one pick? Can you do the history on that? True. Yeah. What team is actually tanking? It'd be very interesting, because the team that started tanking, they pick way down, they gonna be needing to tank again. I'm saying, so when you start thinking about all that stuff,

man, listen, everybody gonna always have a speculation. Somebody always have something to say, whether it's right or wrong. Yeah. Yeah, you know what space we in, hell. The conspiracy theories gonna always exist. All right, man, come on. It started the first year, it actually started, guys,

the first year they had the lottery at 85, and the Knicks ended up getting Patrick Ewing. So that started. They're like, hold on, how did New York, the first year they got the lottery, he hit the Patrick Ewing. So that started, so ever since then, they're like, hold on, you mean to tell me a guy that grew up one hour away from Cleveland and he's dead, they're like, hold on. You mean to tell me a guy that grew up one hour away from Cleveland, and he's coming out, and he end up to the cabs, LeBron. I don't know, listen, it was such a convenience. It's such an odd convenience too, no, Sean, to where it almost seems like,

even though if you're conspiracy theorists and all, it just seems like it was rigged or done on purpose to satisfy not just the Mavs organization, but the fans as well, and to get Nico Harrison off the goddamn hook. That's just what it feels like. Just what are the odds? Think about it though.

What are the odds? 1.8, they had the fourth longest odds to get the number one overall pick. I think Derrick Rose was like once Chicago, get another one. Chicago got Derrick Rose. We ain't want to talk about that, but go ahead, go ahead, yo, to finish your point. I was just saying, just the fact that it all happened that way and it was perfect. It seemed perfectly orchestrated.

You let Luca go and you have nothing. Everybody's upset. Nico Harrison keeps on talking about it, making everybody even more upset. And now to ease everybody's mind and ease the tension, damn, now you got the number one pick too? I don't know. It just seems the odds, if the odds are that good,

we need to go play the goddamn lotto. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But let me ask you this, Matric. What was your reaction when you found that your team had traded Luka to the Lakers? Listen, I ain't gonna lie to you.

When we saw it, we thought it was a hoax. We thought- Everybody did. And we thought it was a fake, we thought it was some bullshit, be honest with you. Yeah, like, nah, there ain't no way it happened. That don't even sound real. Man, I was getting text messages,

I was getting, it started hitting the sports center and it was like, everything, I was like, oh, this was for real. I was like, yo, what happened? But man, listen, it's the business, man. You know, when you ever sit on the other side of the, on the other side of the business side, not the sporting side, just on the, on the,

on the manager side, I'm the owner. I've been the owner for sports now for seven years now. You know what I'm saying? I've been in that space for different mindset. It's a business. But at the end of the day, people don't really truly know, understand the dynamics of what owners do and don't do. All they see is what the fans do.

I mean, what the, what, what the sport is on the, I mean, what things are going on the floor and what people get paid. There's a lot of moving parts behind the scene that go on to run these teams and organizations and stuff. So when there's so many moving parts going on, I just say, look, man, it's a business, man. Things happen, you know what I'm saying? That's what it is.

At the end of the day, we can sign contracts. We was all athletes at one point, but we had no control of, some of us have a little bit more control to say so, at times predicated on the situations and who you are and what you do on that court. But then in a day, if somebody wants to trade you, they got the right to trade you. You know that? Like, come on now.

Like, I'm not saying all this, but they do have an owner. You sign a contract, that owner controls your rights and everything you do. But he paid your salary, too. So he writes them checks for you so you can go cash in little and everything you do. But he paid your salary, dude. So he writes them checks for you so you can go cash in little lights that we do. Understand that, it's a business. And it's a lot of things don't go to plan as planned as you want sometimes.

Listen, I was traded, what, twice? Twice? You know, and, but I knew where I was going. I knew I had control over where I was going and dictated all that stuff. I knew where I was going. I knew I had control over where I was going and dictated all that stuff. I knew exactly what was happening and how it happened. But like the same time, I had some leeway. So at least if you are gonna get a certain caliber player,

you do have some say so and know what's going on. And you know, it is what it is. It's part of it. Yeah, but see, you had some knowledge. Luca had no knowledge of it. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. This knowledge Luca had no knowledge of it. Yeah, yeah. This thing this thing was had it had to be hush hush because we didn't hear anything about it.

I mean, Luca, yeah, I mean, listen. And I think that's why I hurt him so much because he I think he had all intents and purpose to spend his entire career in Houston. And you think a guy has's been to, excuse me, Dallas. Dallas. Yeah. I think when you make five consecutive all the NBA teams, you just took a team to the finals. You're like, you know what? I'm here. I ain't going nowhere.

As long as I want to be here. And plus the fact we had never seen someone his age, this talented leave without requesting to leave. Kareem left because he wanted to leave. LeBron left because he wanted to leave. Shaq left, but we'd never seen a guy this young, this accomplished, leave and had no idea that it was going on, that they were going to move him. And I think that's what hurt him the most. And people always have this idea, people love spending other people's money.

Man, what's $345 million? It ain't your money, it ain't nothing. But the older looking at it, like, hold on, 345 for Luca, I'm gonna probably have to break bread with Kyrie, AD gonna want some money. And so they're looking at the business aspect of it and like, I know they were talking one time, but potentially moving it to Las Vegas, I don't think that's going to happen.

I think the NBA won't their own team in Las Vegas and possibly another team in Seattle, considering how much money has been paid for NBA franchises. But I think I, that's what I think. Oh, let me ask you this. I think that's what I think. Oh, let me ask you this. Do you think the vitriol, the outrage that the fan base in Dallas showed towards Nico and the Dallas organization, you think it was warranted? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Based on what Luca's been able to do on the court, what he's done for them, especially the previous year, taking them to NBA finals, it's goddamn warranted. It's absolutely warranted for a generational talent like that. I'm not sure what the issue is. I understand there might've been some things off the court that might've rubbed management long-term and wanted to invest that kind of money in them. But when it comes to what he does on the court and understanding what he meant

to not just the fans of Dallas, but what he meant to that organization. I just don't, I just don't, I don't see myself doing it if I'm in their position. I just don't. How do you make sure you, the general manager, you know, Luke is in line to get a five year, $345 million contract. Now, I don't know if you talked to anybody in the building. I don't know how much time, do you live in Dallas? Where do you live, Phoenix or Dallas?

I'm in Dallas, just Chicago, I'm in both. Okay, so I don't know how close you are to people in the building. You already? Huh? You say I'm in both, but that boy got money, boy. Woo, woo, woo, woo. So, I said, I don't know how close you are

to people in the building or what you heard. You know, there are a lot of things about conditioning and then, you know, he likes, you know, he likes hookah and whatever the case may be, but at the end of the day, he's still giving you those numbers. So you're the general manager in Dallas and Luca's on your team.

How do you handle this situation? You trading? You know what? It's not as easy as you say that. Dallas and Lucas on your team. How do you handle this situation you trade me? You know what? It's not as easy as you say that you asking me a question if I'm a GM It's got so many other moving parts that go along with it though, right? So when you I Would so I would I could say this I was I'm you gave me the GM hat But I'm giving you the the franchise player hat because I'm gonna give you something that comes along with being a franchise player. So you got to, so you, the franchise player on the court, but you also, the franchise player, your face is everything in the community and all this stuff off

the court, if you're doing it the right way, all the steps. So I know what my, my job and my duty was when I signed that contract, when I said max player, when you sign that contract, there's certain obligations that you have to abide by and do. So I've done that. So I was in that space now. Do, do, do I feel like that was the same situation here? I don't know.

I don't, I don't, I couldn't tell you. I think a look was amazing kid and everything. Me being a GM. I don't, I don't know if that's a, a GM call though, honestly, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, you know, I think that's what I'm saying. Everybody think it's always this. I'm, I'm, and like I said, I've been on the, I'm on the other side now. I've been the only spot.

A lot of, a lot of this is, and everything, you know, this is a trickle down effect. You know what I'm saying? It's like everybody's here whispers and oh, this, this came from this such a such, man, listen, you talking about a multi-billion dollar business. That wasn't coming from somebody. Somebody had opened their damn mouth somewhere and said something. That ain't supposed to say it right. Or they gave him permission to say that. So, but in the end of the day, man, Nico my guy, and I've been known Nico for 20 years, man. And that's my guy. And at the end of the day, man, whether he did, I don't know whether he did it,

what happened happened. It is what it is. I don't know whether he did it, what happened, happened, it is what it is. I don't think nobody was gonna give him any love or any flowers for it. I don't care who it was. He could've got Michael Jordan back. I think everybody would've still been mad. You know what I'm saying?

So at the end of the day, man, like I said, it's a business, man. It's sad, but I get it, man. I am a Dyr Hart, Cubby fan, man. So, and players get traded all the time, man.'t some of your favorite players get gone. Guess what? I'm be mad. I'm gonna be mad at he gone, but I'm still gonna be a fan I'm gonna still be a fan of that player who got traded You know saying I'm still gonna be a fan of the Cubs so that when I think about it from a span standpoint

Yeah, you can be in your films a little bit. I talked to some fans and I heard I felt they paying, you know I get it, you know saying but it was like no bit. I talked to some fans and I heard, I felt they paying. You know, I get it. You know what I'm saying? But it was like, no, I'm still a diehard master. And I love to hear that. You know what I'm saying? When you're fans, that's the true nature of true diehard fans.

When they tell you that they love the team so much. And then listen, we don't like it. We don't agree with it. But guess what? We're gonna still be here and ride or die with you guys. So hopefully it works out for the best and everybody on both sides, man. And that's what it is, man.

You know, it's everything and everybody's so sensitive about everything now. So it just escalated everything 10 times than what it was. And I get it, you know what I'm saying? Luca was special. He was doing something amazing. And they had, they went to the finals last year and then all of a sudden

He got traded got moved and nobody knew like you said nobody could know about it You know saying because it probably wouldn't happen if it came out that they was trying it would never happen Yeah, and this is what I know Ocho, you know this yeah matrix, you know this Ain't no general manager making no call on the 345 million. That's coming from ownership He might he might make a call to get a role player or a mid-level exception, but 345 million? He ain't making that call. That's from the top. Hey, listen, he ain't making that.

Hey, we need a backup point guard or the mid-level exception or the vet minimal Go ahead do it go ahead. Let me go. Yeah 345 You better get somebody say you better get somebody 70 million of my dollars Hey, y'all stupid, you stupid, dog. Hell to the dog. You said what? You said, you want me to do what? How much?

Oh, wait, hold on. Let me think about it. Look here. If Nico didn't get that on his own, they'd have gotten rid of that trade. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of times you have to, you understand Matrix, when you're in that position, it's like, and I'll tell you, we're not talking about this in the football aspect of it. Roger Goodell, he takes all the blowback for the owners.

Yeah. Roger ain't making no decision. That's them 32 owners that pay his salary. Right. You can't get a salary and then think you're gonna call shots on your own. If you receive a salary, you gotta take that from the bosses. Yeah. Same thing with Adam Silver.

Adam Silver worked for those 30 owners of those NBA teams. The same thing as Rob Manfred. He worked for those owners of those NBA teams. The same thing as Rob Manfred. He worked for those owners of those baseball teams. And so a lot of the blowback, the, man, that's terrible, Roger Goodell, boo, boo! Or, we just said in the draft, but they still booing. They always booing. I don't think people understand me.

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it, Roger. Say, y'all booing. There's 60 million. I got lifetime benefits, and I get to fly private. So y'all keep on booin'. Yeah, I don't think the people understand that Roger Goddard represents the 32 owners.

Absolutely. Of the booze that are implemented and put in place. That's what the owners want. Owners. Roger just gotta deal with the brunt of the booze. The blowback. He gotta deal with all of it. He ain't trippin' though.

Hey, hey, nah, we say get on that PJ, right? Yeah. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you.

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A lot of times, the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chafkin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, Sports Reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull, we'll take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms,

even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming,

how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience

is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency.

Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. No one was let go. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions. In just a second, I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask a... I'm Leon Neyvok, co-creator of Slow Burn.

In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran-Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Emanuel Archer recently claimed that Celtics match up better against the Nates without Tatum in the lineup,

exclusively because of mindset. I believe a team is a reflection of its leader. Jason Tatum is the leader of Boston. They are an incredibly talented team, but they're not tough team. This is what Kevin Durant had to say. He responded on Twitter, excuse me, on X, damn. Hot take artists have ruined the sport.

Football guys, no disrespect, but y'all boys need to stay in y'all lane. I don't know what it's like to be between them lines. Give the man a break. Give it, he said, between these lines. Give the man a break give it He said between these lines man. Give it a break dudes Who quit football early to pursue media talking mental toughness cut it out mmm Hey, Katie taking state Katie taking shots

But yeah I don't think you knew who he is. But yeah. KD gonna respond. I ain't got no problem with it. I ain't got no problem with it. I like it, I like it. I wish more players would like that. I wish more elite superstar players would like that

and voice their opinion. That's why I like Twitter. I like X because it gives everybody a voice. Now it cuts the middle man out. Nice old players being able to have an opportunity nothing lost in terms lost nothing lost in translation okay yeah I got something for y'all okay okay you talk about I love people having voices but this is the my thing though you were champion right yeah so your mind says gonna be totally different with somebody who wasn't a

champion is it not correct so that's, that's wrong. And you got people talking about the game and, and this and that, but how can you, how can somebody really define a game if you got, if you never won anything and tell somebody from you telling you talking from a losing perspective, you know, you never want you was an individual. You, I mean, I'm not saying you would, it's a lot of guys that was great players. Never. That were great.

That was great. Never won. You don't talk about, it's all about me, me, me, me. What about, you know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, you got a problem, but you wasn't a great team player. You didn't excel your team to be a winner. You didn't win. Your team was losing.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, you can correct me if I'm wrong. You said, unless you've been a champion, how do you tell me what it takes to become a champion? Yeah, I'm right. How are you going to have a champion mindset if you've never been a champion? Well I have another question. Okay. For people that are in the media space, right? Yes. I'm talking to Sean.

Obviously, with what he just said, how do you feel about people that talk about the game of basketball, the game of football, the game of hockey, or pundits or analysts on it, or get their opinion or views on it, but have never played the game? Can you take what they say seriously can you take what they say serious if they've never done it?

So, so this is my thing. I think, uh, they, they, the media is great at creating these narratives and hold on, they can listen, everybody can have the opinion about the game. I'm not, I'm not, this is open to open platform. Everybody can discuss it on every level from TV to social media, to whatever you want to do, podcasts, whatever. But my thing is this, though, when you, when you start dissecting and you really want to know the logics of what it really truly takes, go talk to someone who's done

it before. I'm not going to come in your space and try to tell you how you do your job and tell you how you do your job if I've never done it. I've never been a reporter. I'm not going to sit here and slide in the same lane. But with that being said, I'm not going to sit here and discredit people either. There are some people that are clearly, but the narratives that the media create,

it becomes a part of our thought process. It become ingrained in us. These stories, they're everybody. This is the one thing I don't think pretty much people truly understand. It's almost like if the media said, they believe that bullshit. And then now it becomes a thought process.

Whether you agree with it or don't, it becomes a part of your thought process. And that's the first thing that comes to your mind when you say something. And that's the one thing that pisses me off more than anything. So like, at the same time, I'm okay with people having an opinion, but let me give you something else to think about it. Think about it from a different perspective, different side, or someone who actually did it. I walked this life. I walked this path. I'm gonna show you what from my experience or what I had been through, and I'm gonna pave this direction for you

and this idea for you. So when you sit here and you go through all these narratives, man, I just, it hurts me sometimes and pisses me off. I just sometimes have to recuse myself from a lot of conversations because it's falling on deaf ears because everybody's fucking

Stuck on stupid at times, you know common sense ain't coming anymore. You know say it right so, you know It's so many levels to this shit. You know It is I want to have one thing. I want to hand the baton I want you to hand the baton off to me because I agree with a lot of what you say it Guys that have covered this game and and I go particular say it like a Tony Kornheiser or Michael Will Bond guys that have covered this game, and I go particular, I say like a Tony Kornheisel or Michael Wilbon, guys that have covered the game. I think they understand the game, but their intricacies, unless you've been in that huddle, unless you've been in that locker room, in those intense moments you couldn't possibly

know. Now see, they might go by what somebody told them. I'm going by what I know. See, I was in the huddle on fourth down. I was in the huddle on third and sixth. I was in the locker room when we had lost five straight against Baltimore. So for you to say, I think this is what, no, I'm not telling you what I think. I'm telling you what I know.

Cause I was there. And so while they can write it and they cover the game and they do a great job. And I'm like you, I don't discredit anybody that I've never said, well, you didn't play the game, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm saying from a standpoint of being in the locker room, being on the field, being on the court, there are certain things that I can speak to that even in your 30, 40, 50 years of covering a game,

can't give the fans what I can't. Having played the game far less than you've ever covered the game because I've been in the huddle. I've heard that call and I looked in guys' eyes and I know who, you know, guys that put in what they put in and I know guys that bulljab, cause I'm there, I see them all the time.

You get to spend open locker room, what, 30 minutes. Five days a week, you get to spend 30 minutes on maybe Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. I don't think you get to come maybe a little bit on Friday. That's all you get. I get to see that guy from nine to five, five days a week, then on the road on Saturday and Sunday in the locker room. You coming in after the game, so you don't get to talk to him before the game, So you don't know what he's thinking or you don't, you haven't had a conversation with him before.

Right. And so that's why I don't discredit guys that because there are some guys that do an excellent job. And they've talked to some of the greats, but you see, they're talking to them. Yes. I'm right there with them. I'm right there in the locker room. I'm sitting right next to him. I'm right there in the huddle and so I I can I Just think guys that have played the game now everybody that played the game matrix Can't get on TV and talk about the game. Oh, no, I agree and explain it in a way

Explain it in a way that maybe somebody's in the media can talk about of course, but that doesn't mean just because you can Articulate your thoughts more or better That you know the game better or understand the game better. Yeah Does that hopefully that makes sense to know it does it does you know like I like my guy, you know He's from Korea here. So like Mike is great Mike been on TV for what? Yeah, Mike been doing for 50 years Mike has been on there man. I love Mike, you know, you know, but You said something that is so dawned on me. Like you were experiencing somebody basically being around somebody 24-7 in the trenches with people,

it's totally a different feeling. You know, I used to say this when everybody was like, how's the team feeling? I'm like, man, you had to be in this, you had to be in a locker room to see. I can't express what we're going through right now. Well, I can't even say it in words. You gotta be able to feel it.

You gotta see it. You gotta be sitting next to me and you gotta be feeling that heat coming from my teammate next to me on both sides. And we ain't got anything to say nothing to him. I'm looking at my guy. We about to go to war out here. And it's like, it's a whole different mindset.

And I think there's so many different levels to this. I think there's so many different levels to this, because I think there's so many great players that play this game in the NBA. It's a great fraternity that I'm in. And I take my help to the OGs who paid the way for me. And I really do. All them guys, they don't get enough credit, man.

They don't get enough flowers, man. We don't talk about enough. And I'm just sad, because every year I feel like we losing, we losing some icons in this game. And I'm 47 now, I just had a birthday last week and I'm just sitting here, I just gotta take my hat off to these guys, man. I thank all the OGs that paid away from me, man.

I'm truly blessed to be in the position I'm in. I don't take none of this for granted. It's kinda like me trying to go sit into a newsroom and try to tell them how to create a story or write a narrative or Bro, yeah, I watched the game, but I can't craft it like you could Hmm. And so like I said, I don't discredit anybody because I don't think I can do See what I went and oh Joe, you know, you and I've had this conversation. Yeah, I don't feel

That I can do your job better than you I just feel I could do my job better than I can do your job better than you. I just feel I can do my job better than you can do your job. Now, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But that's how I feel. I don't think I can do my job better than you. I just feel I can do my job better than you can do yours. You deduce from that whatever you want. But I'm not going to discredit you from your job.

Whatever the case may be a cashier Ain't no way I could be no cash. I'll be looking at them people. They they give me a dollar. I give him ten back They come hey, I ain't all the numbers and I ain't got time for that I get frustrated but I understand that people have a job to do and and I think it's easy to say because they won without Jason Tatum, they're not winning a championship without Jason Tatum. You think that, what do you think the odds are Ocho? They win a championship, they're going to win the NBA championship without

JT. So if that's not the case, they're not better without him because the odds are they're a better team. Do you think they would have won the championship last year without JT? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And matter of fact, since you posed that question too, based on, you know, Acho and Kevin Durant going back and forth, this was just one game. What happens if they come back in this series

and they get it done without Jason Tatum? What happens if they get to the East and Commonwealth, obviously get to the East and Commonwealth finals without Jason Tatum. What happens if they get to the Easton Carpenter Finals without Jason Tatum? What happens if they do get a chip without Jason Tatum? They not. What does that say? Oh, you still not possible? No.

Even with the way Jalen Brown played? No. In different fights? No. In Pritchett? OK, OK. Listen, I said that same thing, Ochoa. I saw how I was talking to my guys last night about that.

I was like, I just said, what a hypothetical. You know, ain't many teams in NBA history ever came down, came back from a 3-1 deficit. But it's hypotheticals. It's hypotheticals. Yeah, so that's a hypothetical, Unc. See, that's what he's going with, a hypothetical. Say for instance, they win tomorrow. Boston wins tomorrow, they able to get back home. Cause at the end of the day, you know the rope,

I mean I like Knicks, I do. Jalen Brunson is a savage out there. He's the one that close it. But with that being said though, the supporting cast only had one game in the series so far that they all of them scored over 20 points. So like you know you don't know what the supporting cast gonna do you know Jalen Bronson is the head of Snake over there and you know a lot of these teams are one injury away from not doing

anything am I right? Okay so but yeah Boston is one team that has listen they they have they have enough to still do it. And I'm saying, does everybody show up though? If Kate P show up. So in other words, if I take Acho's reasoning and I listen to you with if, so if the go to state warriors had to win that series, that means they're better without Steph Curry. No. Shit. If the Golden State Warriors had a one that series that means they're better without Steph Curry No, hmm The best player off the team

Boarding can't deport the porting cast and go to state is not even close to what they have in Bowles. No, what about Jimmy Butler? Playout Jimmy? You told me play out Jimmy. He's taking two teams to the NBA finals. Yes he has. And he hadn't had... I'm just saying. I'm just throwing it out there. We just having healthy conversation now since we doing what ifs. Yeah, but no, but they're done now. So they're done. But look but if you go look at the roster though, so go, go, go Boston starting those go roster right now, top seven players there. So five, what's our five now? Because take them is out now.

So they're, they're, they're current roster right now. Look at their lineup though. Tell me what you think about their line compared to their boss lineup. If they're doing what they're supposed to do without Jason Tatum, their, their, their best six players aren't better than Nick's best six players. You don't think so? Hell no. With Brunson, Kat, Bridges, Hart, who's the other guy? O.G.?

I love New York. I love those guys. And you got Mitchell Robinson and McBride. So if I take the Nickicks, seven best players, minus Tatum, so the Knicks, seven best players, and you give me the Celtics, seven best players, minus Tatum, I'll take the Knicks. Okay. We'll see.

I mean, he ain't showed up yet in this playoffs yet. He ain't gonna show up, so let's stop looking for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's 7 up yet in this playoffs yet. He ain't gonna show up, so don't stop looking for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's 73 and invisible. So, yeah. See, I'm just a firm believer. I just saw these guys have all, you got two guys, well, you got three All-Star pedigree guys

on Boston Celtics. They're either former All-Star or not. You know what I'm saying? The only current All-Star on their team is Jalen Brunson right now, but Derrick White could have easily been All-Star. not, you know saying the only only current all-star and only team is Jalen Brunson right now But but Derek White could have easily been all what about what about cat? No, hold on cat cat was also Yeah, but they got to I'm saying New York got to yeah boss Boston. They got to current but Boston has one current and two former drew holiday. Yes, and uh, we're Zingas. So what that being said, but then

Jew Holiday. Yes. And uh, Rosengis. So with that being said, but then uh, uh, Derek White could have easily been one this year. I'm saying, was Al Hofer that All-Star too? Did Al Hofer make it one time? He had been an All-Star. Yeah, he's been an All-Star. So All-Star, I don't know if they older, but All-Star Pedigree does play and have some leverage and God- Well hell, uh, uh, uh, uh, Matrix, hell I was a 12th grader. Long time, what, former? I was a former 12th grader, Ocho. What the heck? It ain't over till it's over, Ocho. Yeah, you right. Over till it's over.

Remember, this is all hypothetical. But anything is possible. It ain't over till it's over. We know that. So anything can happen. We do that a lot though. Ocho, we do that a lot. We see a guy at football go down,

well, they're a better team without him. No, they're not. No, hell, they football go down where they're a better team without him. No, they not. No, no, they not. Right. They want to gain one time. What they want to gain without chase. What I mean, they're better. No, no, no.

You talk about, hold on. Jason Tatum is about to make his fourth consecutive all NBA team. You mean to tell me a team is better without an all first team all NBA selection? Um, no. You know what makes you question it though, and Sean? You look at the way they play without him in that one game. It raises the question and the possibility of the Maxie being better without him because of the way they played. What happens, Ocho, what happens when the original teacher's not, we get a substitute where it's not the same. So now you do things differently.

I believe the Knicks let their guard down. The Knicks like, well they ain't got JT, they ain't gonna be ready to play. And they underestimated them. I bet they don't make that same mistake. I bet they don't make that mistake in the MSG. Well, we gonna see. Well, I hope not, you know what I'm saying?

But you know, listen, man, when you out here, man, we can't, one of the things I learned a long time ago, you know this, the one thing you can control is what? Your effort. You can't control that ball going, hope or not. So you know, hey, listen, you can't control it going into hoops. So like, hey man, listen, man, people feeling that pressure,

and listen, I know Garden going to be rocking them all. You know what I'm saying? I don't see what's always in that. I ain't never been to a playoff game in New York. I would love to be there. But I got to do it. Hey, hey, but hold on. Did, did, did Acho did not see the three games

they lost with Jason Tatum. So you better without him, but you lost three games with it. But they will tell me he had 42. It was up 20 points. We're not, it wouldn't listen. They're not winning. They're not what they are without Jason Tatum. He's one of the best players in the NBA.

Oh, by far. Easily. That's not a question. It's hard. You could let's just say he's a top 10 player. Yeah. How is a team better without a top 10 player? Okay.

You can win a game, see, and I think the thing is, sometimes what happens, Matrix and Ojo, is that a team will win a game or two without their best player, and people start to believe, well, hey, we can get rid of him, and we can get something back. No, you can't. Don't do that.

Nah, nah. Well, no, no, we... So, huh. Okay, now... Oh, I'm... No, I'm not gonna agree with that, I'm gonna tell you something now. So, like, put this way. If Jaylen... So, Jaylen Brown was out and Jason Taylor was playing right now and they did the same thing. Would you still be saying the same thing? No, because I think they need both of them. Because when Kevin Durant became available,

they offered Jalen Brown and Derrick White some draft picks for Kevin Durant. They didn't offer Jason Tatum. Yeah, but I mean, listen, KD my guy, you know what I'm saying, but I'm just saying, because right now, Jalen Brown took over the role that Tatum does. Did he not in his last?

Yes. So he became in his last? Yes. So he became the main facilitator and did a great job at it. He never get it so fast. Yes. He was due though. OK. OK. Hold on, buddy.

Did you see the way he been playing this? Did you see the way he been playing this series? So look, so Tatum last year was dedicated to the point guard, per se. That's what they said last year. They let him meet a main ball handler So when you watch them play they go a lot of times they go tit for tat they go They come down and shoot the general rock and then shoot it times. You know, yes, that's all but now

You don't have to go tit for tat now you got you got him designated as that spot right now Listen, I'm just telling you there ain't over to his overweight. I'm not saying they can. Listen, I, listen, I would love to see New York's go do all the way. I want to go. Yeah. I wanted to go seven. I actually, I would go seven. You know me honestly, you know, hey, it's been some great basketball.

You know what I'm saying? So, but anything is possible. I don't even put nothing. We, it's like I said, it's all hypothetical though. Remember we just saw my, but it's hard to come back from a three, one deficit though. But don't first nothing we said it's all hypothetical though. Remember we just saw my but it's hard to come back I'm a 3-1 deficit though, but don't first two games though. Honestly, they could have easily won though. They fucked them shit off Did they fuck them shit off? So we sit here and we keep acting like you know saying Boston is one of the things that Boston Had and it was the reason they was able to prevail last year, that most people don't,

they have seven 3ND guys. They got one went down with an injury last game. They still got those six 3ND guys. A lot of teams don't have 3ND guys. They do. Yeah. They got- Everybody is starting to switch everything now.

Yeah, so that's what I'm saying though. So like it's not over till it's over. You just don't know. Maybe K-3 is due for a big game tomorrow. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. The Volume. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways.

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