Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: Unc, Ocho, Iso, & Jermaine O’neal react to Thunder evening the series 1-1!

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson, Iso Joe, and Jermaine O’neal react to the Oklahoma City Thunder beating the Indiana Pacers to tie the series 1-1, the New York Knicks are looking to make a momumental run for Giannis this offseason and much more!03:00 - Pacers v OKC55:12 - Knicks preparing to trade for Giannis(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Hi, I'm Sarah Spain, host of Good Game with Sarah Spain and the co-author of the new book Runs in the Family, an incredible true story of football, fatherhood and belonging written with and about Las Vegas Raiders running backs coach Dylan McCullough. It's the story of a football coach and father of four who sees his life forever changed by the unsealing of his adoption records and it's got a twist you won't believe. Based on the viral ESPN story I did a few years coach and father of four who sees his life forever changed by the unsealing of his adoption records. And it's got a twist you won't believe. Based on the viral ESPN story I did a few years ago, this book will blow your mind and

bring you to tears. Buy runs in the family wherever books are sold. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way

to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume Hello ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. As you watch the OKC Thunder, even the series up 1-1 with a 1-23-1-07 victory over the Indiana Pacers. They got back on the winning track. Now they're going to go back, go to Indiana on Tuesday and see if they can

snatch home court back. Thank you for joining us. Y'all know me. I am your favorite. I don't it's Wednesday. Wednesday, my bad Wednesday, Wednesday. Um, I am your favorite on Shannon Sharp, my partner and co-host, member of the Nightcap team, Liberty City's own bingo ring of fame, honoree, pro bowler,

all pro, Chad Ocho-Senko Johnson. Our third member of the big three joined us during the basketball season. Now he's doing an excellent job. Thank you about bringing this man on for football. He knows so much about football. He know all things. All right now. All right.

I'm certain you know good time now. No. Arkansas native, University of Arkansas alum, ISO Joe, Joe Johnson. Sup. And joining us to break down tonight's game, he's a former member of the Indiana Pacers. He's a six time All-Star, three time All-NBA selection

from Eau Claire High School out of Columbia, South Carolina. Here he is, Jermaine O'Neal. Let's get right into it. OKC, they won the most games in the regular season. Really, with the exception of the Nuggets, they kind of breezed through the playoffs. We knew they were going to bounce back, and they did this in convincing fashion.

Joe, I'm going to start with you, then I'm going to kick it to you, Jermaine. What did you like about what you saw from OKC tonight? I thought OKC was relentless in their approach, knowing that there's no way they can go back to Indiana down 0-2. I thought they came out and played with a sense of desperation and they kind of continued pretty much throughout the entire game. And, uh, for me, you know, I think when you watched this final, especially knowing what, what OKC have done, you know, pretty much throughout the whole

season, which has been the best team. I thought they put their stamp on the game today and they never took their foot off the gas. I thought they were great. Yep. JL. For me, I thought they did a lot of the same things they did in the first game. I think defensively we see what they are.

They make every possession tough. You got to really earn it. They kept, for the most part, they kept the Pacers out of that transition offense. And when you look at game one versus tonight, every time the Pacers try to make a run, they responded. By getting stops, they responded by getting a score. So I thought that was the difference because getting game one, it was only, the Pacers only led for one possession, right?

And that was the end of the game, right? And so they did a really good job defensively of controlling the tempo and controlling the outcome of the game. Oh Joe. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to piggyback off of what J.O. said. Obviously the Thunder's pressure defensively is elite. They had 10 steals, they held Halliburton's hell, you only had five assists.

The Pacers really couldn't find any type of rhythm and they couldn't get into any early offense. The Thunder played with a sense of desperation and understanding that we can't go down old two and. Oh shit. That's just about, just about what happened, baby. Indiana thought they could play the same way they played the first game in with this ball game, they will sloppy the first three quarters of the ball game. If you look at the turnovers Halliburton has six assists, he had five turnovers.

So, you know, it's going to be a hard, because Halliburton is not a turnover guy. As many assists J.O. and Joe as you know, Ocho, you know he's a guy that's had 15 assists and no turnovers. He's had 19 assists and no turnovers. 20 assists and one turnover. So when you see him have six assists and five turnovers, that lets you know they're struggling to get into their offensive sets.

They did a great job. Okay, see this game, they got on the glass. Yeah, remember we talked about Joe how many second chance points They allowed uh, uh, in the out of the get not this game. They beat him on they beat him on the offensive end They beat him in the rebounding stats. Shea was a lot more efficient level of 21 the other game He had 38, but he took him 30 shots. Tonight he had 34 on 21 shots. Chad Hongren decided to come to the party. He was invited to game one. He decided not to show up till late and it wasn't enough.

Paces look, I hope the pace don't say, oh, we got one. We good going home because OKC is a very good road team. They are very good road team. There's a reason why they won the most games. There's a reason why they have the MVP. home because OKC is a very good road team. They are very good road team. There's a reason why they won the most games. There's a reason why they have the MVP. They have an all, they have another player than Jalen Williams, who's an all NBA defensive player and all NBA. So guys, I don't know.

I look, and you can see the frustration on coach Carlisle's face. Yeah. Hey, J.O. He used like three tie-up outs in a matter of five minutes. Cause he felt the game starting to slip away from him. He's like, no, I gotta, I gotta quell some of this momentum. And he wasn't able to do it. Give the Thunder credit tonight.

Um, because I thought they played it really well and it's not so much what the Pacers didn't do is what OKC did do. OKC forced them to play this style of a ball game. I thought OKC played great in the first game as far as defensively, but tonight they pretty much had control defensively, keeping guys out the paint, making it tough for them. And I'm curious to hear what J.O. got to say, man, about Hallenburton, especially early in the game, J.O. For me, when I, about Hallenburton, especially, you know, early in the game,

J.O., for me, you know, when I watch, I knew in the fourth quarter he was going to try to assert himself a little bit and try to, you know, get him back in the game. But I think he's so passive, you know, to start the game, man, that it kind of, it gets him out of rhythm. And I think it takes away from, you know, what he does. I know he's a great passer, a great facilitator, but this is the biggest stage. I think he has to come out and give him something. Cause for me it's like, Ocho, when he catch the ball,

he come up to pick and roll, he's not even looking at the basket. He's looking at the pass. He's looking at the pass. He's looking where his next pass is gonna be versus putting pressure on the rim and trying to make a play. And I just think, you know, obviously, I think he'll play a lot better when they go home.

But for me, I'm curious to hear what J.O. got to say about that. Yeah, and you're getting it right on the head. I think the one thing with Tyrese Halliburton is, you know, when you look at the last game, right, he got bailed out because he hit the shot, right? He only had, he finished him 14, right? And you look again tonight, again, you know, he inserted because he hit the shot, right? He only had, he finished him 14, right? And he looked again tonight again, he inserted himself late in the fourth,

but they were down 20. Look at the rest of the roster, they had seven double-figure scores a day, right? The difference between the pace was really, really standing the game and really having an opportunity to win is him, right? Go back to the Knicks series when he had the triple-double. I actually talked to him right before, you know, tip off.

And he said he was about to get after it. He saw it in his eyes from day one. When he could penetrate, touch the paint, he create opportunities, he opens up his opportunities and he's aggressive. I do not enjoy, you know, you know this very well. You're playing a dangerous game when you're trying to wait into the fourth

to help your team, right? You're not gonna continue to when you're trying to wait until the fourth to help your team. You're not going to continue to make those shots, right? And then you got to at least give your team a chance to have an opportunity to be in the game, you know, come fourth quarter. And, you know, he didn't do a very good job of that today. And obviously, you know, OKC, you know, had, you know, answers with Aaron Williams had huge games and 18 and Caruso had 20. Right. Yeah. You know, the stars got to be stars.

We all know that in every league. And if you can't be a star and your team is, you know, it's vulnerable to lose a game. And tonight they did. It's kind of funny though. Honestly, when you think about Halliburton in the first game, his approach to the game, the first game was the same way. He was very passive, you know, allowed the rest of his team to get their shots in, allowed them to be in rhythm, and that kept him in the game until those final moments.

And then he decided, you know what, all right, I'm gonna take over and take this last shot. Just in today's game, he tried that same approach, but it didn't work because they were down too damn late. I will say this, Ocho, one thing about, and I think people, it's this crazy thing where he's learning to be a star, right? You know, when people say superstar, superstars are already, they already know how to carry a team.

I think he's a star that's learning to try to be a superstar as pass first point guard, right? So, you know, that team needs him to be high motive from start to finish. If he can't do that, then I don't think they can beat the OKC, you know, if he's not aggressive. Right. Hey, hey, hey, and to kind of piggyback what Unc say, I think you got to give OKC credit

because they play great defense. See, they were able to keep Halliburr out of the paint. Now, a lot of times when he get in the paint, he's not necessarily scoring. He's kicking it out, firing it out for threes. And they wasn't getting them easy. They weren't getting them easy threes tonight. I know they made some, but for the most part,

I thought OKC done a great job in keeping guys in front, making it tough on them and not giving them the easy penetration to where they got the lobs or the layups or just wide open threes. So you got to give OKC some credit. 100%. When you drive, when you drive the lane against the Thunder, you better keep your eye on your luggage because they going in your pocket.

They going in your pockets, J-ho. I mean, you see Halliburton, he like, he, oh, I got me a layup and Shane say, no, you don't. Yeah. And you think you got a layup and Lou Doran say, no, you don't. Caruso, they dig it in your pockets. And so you basically, hey, if you got something in your back pocket think you got to lay up and Lou Doran said, no, you don't. Caruso, they dig it in your pocket. And so you basically, hey, if you got something in your back pocket, you got this ball behind you, oh, they dig it out. You better be like a New York on the subway.

You better keep everything in your front pocket. Because if you don't, it will rob your ass blind. And look, this shouldn't surprise us though. They've been what? The best defensive team pretty much. They have. Oh, see? So when I see them playing great defense like this, it doesn't surprise me.

This is kind of actually what I expect. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And the thing, and the thing I thought the thing, what they did tonight is that they hit those shots. Remember they got out to the, they had a 14 point lead in the fourth quarter, but they kept their foot on the gas.

They didn't let up. Even when, um, Indiana went on that 10-0 run, it's like, guess what? They follow them back, they come right back and go on the nine-0 run to themselves and build a lead right back to where it was. So I just, and I agree with you guys, I think Tyrese Halliburton is gonna have to be aggressive and guys are gonna have to hit open shots.

I thought Pascal was a little tentative tonight, three of 11, that's not a whole lot of shots. I mean, look at all the guys that had as many shots as he had. Neesmith had more shots. Obviously Halliburton had more shots. My alternative had more shots. They didn't shoot the three ball well. But they allowed the OKC to shoot 49% from the floor. They shot 37, 39% from the three. You let them shoot 33 free throws.

OKC, they're a good free throw shooting team, J.O. and guys, it's gonna be hard to beat them when you let them shoot 33 free throws. OKC, they're a good free throw shooting team, J.O. And guys, it's going to be hard to beat them when you let them shoot that many free throws. You let them shoot that percentage from the field and from the three-point line. Unless you play excellent ball, you get Halliburton doing what he normally does. Here's the heroics, Pascal doing what he normally does. And Nese Smith and Nim Hart, you're not beating, you let OKC shoot 49% from the floor, shoot 33 free throws, it's gonna be hard for you to beat them

because they play really, really good defense and they normally don't let you shoot in the high 40s. So they got the work cut out for them. I hope they don't think, like I said, OKC was one of the better road teams. Yeah. We know where they are at home because of that crowd, but you don't win 68 games by winning 41 at home. Right.

Right. Right. And I think, I'm going to be honest, I think, I still got to give up, give the Pacers, they keep finding a way. And this is up to me, it goes back to their coaching, right? They coach, they always have them prepared. You know, shout out to Miles Turner, Obe Toppings, T. Bryant, nobody thought that it

would hit, you know, I think the eight and nine threes last thing, big threes, right? And Miles Turner, they have 14 points. And I think they're doing their job from a perspective. They just need, you know, they need Halliburton to really take control of it, set the tempo, get into that pace. They're dangerous when they're flying up and down that court. I thought they played a little bit slower than they would like. And honestly, OKC has a lot to do with that, with them picking up fool and got them, you know, got two all defensive, you know, guys on the roster.

Yep. You know, if the patients can get home and get into that pace, Halliburton become the machine and make them go, I think they have a shot on really taking game three. Hey, look. But remember last time, Joe, we talked about, not before y'all, let you go, Joe. Last time we talked about, remember the Pacers, J.O., they had three guys with double digit rebounds

and they had another guy that had nine. So they had 52 rebounds in the first game. They had 35. So that's minus 17 that all of a sudden now, and they were really good on the glass getting second chance opportunities. They're gonna have to do a better job of that. They're gonna have to do a better job of getting

on the glass, getting second chance opportunities because they did a poor job of taking care of the basketball this game too. They did a much better job in game one. I mean again Well, you think about it. They had 25 turnovers and they win Rick Carlisle like guys We don't have 15 turnovers But you had those turnovers when you were down and you were trying to make your run and now all of a sudden They steal a couple of the positions where you could have probably it was 14 You might have could have cut it to eight or who knows even lower than that.

But now all of a sudden, the 14 goes back to 20 when you could have cut it to under double figures. Go ahead, Joe. Hey, then you look at, I think everything reverts back to Hallenberg because look at his free throw attempts. He didn't get to the line today. And that's part of being aggressive, man. This is the biggest stage.

They need him to get in that paint and make plays, whether it's creating for himself, but he definitely has to create for others. And I think the better he plays, we've seen it throughout this postseason, the more dangerous they are as a team, the better them other dudes around him play when he's aggressive and asserts himself.

So I look for them to be a lot better in Indiana. And obviously, OKC is a great team on the road. them play when he's aggressive and asserts himself. So I look for them to be a lot better in Indiana. And obviously OKC is a great team on the road. I still think, you know, when you look at Indiana still has the edge right now. They, they won one and OKC, they just got to take care of home court. Yep. But you know, OKC is coming in because the same thing happened with Denver. Denver stole game one. They ended up blowing them out in game two.

And then guess what? OKC came right in, in game three, in game three and snuck it from them. You don't want to see that. You want to do everything you possibly can and stop spotting these teams. Look, it's good, J.O.A. We got that a bit, oh man, we could track somebody down. Man, you don't want to spend 38, 40 minutes trying to play from behind. Yeah.

Because now all of a sudden, do I still have enough to get over that hump? And tonight, OKC understood the assignment. They knew they couldn't go down 0-2 and then get on the road and try to win. And now we've got to beat them four out of the next five games. That's asking an awful lot for a team. They go get two on the road, they're going to be playing with a lot of confidence. And that's what okay, that's what Indiana normally does. We saw what they did against Cleveland. They went over there and got those two at home on the road. They're like, oh yeah, we good now. We good. Yeah. And Joe, the thing about this,

man, and this is the thing I think that me, Indiana, a really good team, and it's not me being a homer, but this is just facts, right? When you look at their running the playoffs, they have somebody different, or a couple of people different every game that's the big, right? That is a hard thing to defend, man. They got players across the board

that are ready to help their team win. And I think that's really their calling card. Obviously you have to have a head of a snake and we talk about the ups and downs of Tyrese Halliburton, but man, we gotta commend the other boys coming off that bench being ready and making big shots. Oh yeah, cause look, for me, I love TJ McConnell and what he brings.

I love Thomas Bryan coming off. I know OB Toppin didn't really give him what he gained in the game more. But you know, Matheran has been aggressive playing well, so they got a plethora of guys who can really step up and help them win a game. Yeah, you kind of need one or two of those guys to explode, and tonight they just didn't have it. I mean, Pascal played, he played decent, but 3-4-11, you know, that's going to be tough. They need, you know, they need their big guns to be, to be great in order for them to win on this stage, cause it's tough.

Yeah. Listen, they, they, they gonna, they gonna win the next game. They gonna make, they gonna win the next game. Um, Wednesday. Put something on it. Huh? What'd you say? Who said that?

That was you, Joe? Well, you already owed me $100. Anyway, but, um, I know I had a burden after watching. Once they go back, watch film, you understand, okay, you know what, I gotta assert myself a little bit more. Understanding that I'm gonna be aggressive, then I'll be passable, allow my teammates to get into a game. If I see the game slipping away at any point, you know, you're supposed to be the head coach. You're supposed to put the points, you're supposed to be the head coach. You're supposed to put a point to understand like see the flow of the game and how the game is going and knowing when to assert yourself and when not to. It's okay to be passive, but I think he really wants to get his other

players involved because if they're hitting these shots and then he decides to assert himself and pick and choose when to be aggressive, I think that's what gives them the best chance. And the fact that they're playing at home, despite what the Thunder did and how many wins they had and being an off with a good team playing on the road I think they're gonna be alright and they probably gonna win this series still regardless of what we saw tonight Well, you got to give OKC credit because you look at Caruso you look at Wiggins. They got 38 points from those guys. Yeah Caruso couldn't miss a corner three. Yeah. Wiggins got a loose ball and drained it

and then came right back down, he got it again and boom, drained it again. So you get 38 points from two guys off the bench. Who, if you look at Matthew, Matthew was four or seven, TJ McConnell was five or seven, they was two or three from the three point line. They gave you 25, but you get two guys that gave you 38. Quality 38. And both of those guys played outstanding defense as well. Go ahead, J.O.

So I guess the question that we should look at, this is a strange finals, right? Typically, you know, at this point, you'll see the star of stars, right? SGA has been SGA for the most ways. He's obviously more efficient this game. But this series gonna come down to me, seems like the other guys. Role? Yep. The role players. Role players because, I mean, you haven't, you lose by 20 and it's strange,

the Pacers lose by, I think, almost 20 and they got seven double figure scores. Yeah. Right? And then, you know, you didn't have the have the Aaron Wiggins, the Cruz Soles. I thought Jalen Williams was pretty good tonight. He was a lot better. He had 19. He's obviously he's the starter, but it just like,

where's the, like, what's the winning tool to this? Because it's like every game, like, you know, somebody else is stepping up big and it's not like the traditional superstars taking over games. It's going to be interesting to see these next three games. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary.

We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content,

the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or Pacers are a committee team. And that's what makes them so difficult because they don't have that superstar that you know

that can go, that can consistently go get you 30. You pencil them in, like you look at SGA, SGA gonna get 30 again. You already know that. You play a Yonis, he gonna get you 30. You pencil a man like you look at SGA, SGA gonna get 30 again. You already know that. You play a Yanis, he's gonna get you 30. You play one of these teams that have one of these superstar players, they're gonna get you that number. What the Pacers do is that they nickel and dime you. They're gonna have five, six, seven guys in double figures. They might have one guy with 25, J.O. and Joe, and then they're gonna have a bunch of teams. 17, 18, 15, 14, 13. That's where they hurt you at. And guys normally make timely shots.

If you go back and look at the first game that they stole from the Knicks, Neesmith came off the bench and hit six threes in five minutes. Yeah. He might not ever get that hot again, but he was that hot that night. Right. You look at some of the other games that they played and they've been down just like last, just like the first game. Guys making shots.

So the thing is, it despair yourself. You got to stop falling behind by 14 to 20 JL. You asked it an awful lot to continue because as you go further and further, the teams get better and better. You're playing the best team from stats-wise, record-wise in the NBA, in the OKC Thunder. Because Shay was the MVP. They have an all-defense player in Lou Dort.

They have an all-NBA player, Jayla Williams, to go along with Shay. And Dagnata's a very good coach. So you can't keep getting for, hey, well, you saw what we did against the Knicks. We went down and we beat them. Well, we, no. Man, we went down 19 against the Cavs. Yeah. That's the, the OKC Thunder are entirely different animals.

Yeah. Hey, they, they, they are, they are a entire different, an entire different animal. I think, you know, when your big guys are playing well, and I'm going to speak on Shay, he was very efficient tonight. And yes, K. Caruso and and Wiggins who had great games. But man, when y'all look at Shay, look at the pressure that he's putting on the defense. You have to send another guy, which is giving Karruso them wide open threes or you running pick and roll and Wiggins wide open on the wing. I don't know if you Indiana, do you trap him, try to get the ball out of his hand? Cause he keeps splitting.

I would. Oh, J.O. and as a perimeter guy, I want to split the pick and roll so I can have as many options as I can versus if I come off the pick and roll and y'all trap me and make me give it up to make some of these other guys make plays. But if I split the pick and roll

and I got four, five options to shoot my floater or get to the cup or to spray out the three or throw the lob to check, then y'all in the huckle buck. There's no way you're going to be able to stop that. So I feel like they're going to probably have to trap a man and make him get that thing up and make these other guys make plays. That's a big...

I would trap him, Jale. Jale, I'm going to let you go after this. I would trap him as long as Jalen Williams is struggling. If he's still struggling, I'm going to trap him because the only guy that's really shooting the ball officially, is really like the night was Caruso and Wiggins. But if you go look at Chet, Chet was 6 of 11. First game he didn't play well, he's 6 of 11. But Jalen Weaver was 5 of 14. He didn't shoot the ball well the first game.

But you look at Lou Dort, one of three. Caruso and Wiggins got most of his minutes tonight. And then who was the other guy? Wallace. Wallace got 23 minutes. He was two or four. So yes, as long as Jalen Williams is struggling, I'm going to trap him. I'm going to make him give it up.

It's a dangerous thing if you do though. You better be right because at the way that these guys are shooting threes, man, you will pay the ultimate price. You know, Tre, Traven, if you're not getting to that rotation fast enough, you're gonna be burnt. And the thing that really, when watching this game, and Joe, I can't remember, this many corner threes been giving up.

Right? Man. Obviously, corner threes is the easiest three on the basketball court. Shortest distance. Right, the shortest distance. And it is corner threes galore, right? Yeah. You know, on the floor. And it's just strange. So I think that's probably the reason why they aren't traveling because everybody's shooting the three. But you know, you just got to be right. You got to make sure that if you're going to trap, you got to get those rotations down.

But if you look at it guys, Caruso and Wiggins, they're nine of 18 from the three. The rest of the guys was five of 18. So I'm gonna take my chances. I'm gonna, look, at some point in time, Jared, you gotta give up something. Okay, you know this. If you take something away, you gotta give up something. And let's see if they can consistently do that. Because this is a big stage.

This is not a regular season game. You're not playing Orlando. You're not playing Sacramento. You're playing the NBA finals. You have the whole NBA world undivided attention on you. I'm going to see if somebody, Chant was one of three, Jalen Williams was one of five, Shay was one of four, Lou Dorn one of three, Wallace was all of two. So when you go back and look at it, with the exception of Caruso and Wiggins, everybody else was horrible shooting the three point shot. I'm going to make you, my adjustment is, I've seen Shea, Shea's averaging 36 points a damn

game. No, but let me take that back. He's averaging 37 a game. I got to do something. I got to do something, J.O. Because he's going to be aggressive because at worst come to worst, he'll throw caution to the wind and says, I don't give a damn about efficiency. I'm going to get these shots up and I'm going to make you foul me.

I mean, but I guarantee they didn't think Wiggins go for 18 and Caruso's and go for 20. And I thought, no, I mean, I get what you're saying about trapping them and trying to make somebody else beat them. First of all, I think it's he's too crafty. It's almost like they was trying to hard hedge a couple of times with him. He was splitting the defense and doing those things. So he's a very difficult trap and a very difficult contain.

But again, when you go for 38 between two people, that's uncounted for, right? I can guarantee that wasn't in the game plan that Caruso Wiggins would have went for 38. So, you know, damn if you do damn if you don't, I guess. I agree with J.O. And to my point, when you look at Shade, you know, he goes and when he when he when he brings the ball up on the wing, he goes into that Magic Justice and back down and he get into that back down. That's hard to stop for any of them, dude.

So they have to send another guy, which is why they're able to give up these corner threes. And you see guys like Wiggins and Caruso having great nights. It's because of the success of of Shay Gilgrius, who is, you know, putting a lot of pressure on the defense. Because if you don't come double, he's going to get a foul or he's going to score it. It's just period point blank. What a problem that you have it. Go ahead, Ocho. Now, I was going to say, I think you got too many tools in the toolbox.

Regardless of what your game plan is, when it comes to playing Shea, you might want to just say, you know what, he going to get here no matter what you do. Sometimes you go to a game, you know you have a certain receiver, you say, you know what, we going to stop him. But you know you can't stop him. You can only hope to contain him and hope he misses his shots.

Basically you just have to focus on the other four. Focus on the other four allowing them not to get in rhythm and now them not to get their shots if they do allow them to get their shots in rhythm allow it to be minimal and then spurs and that does that's really the only way because that goddamn shea gonna get whatever he want whether you trapping him, whether you ISO, whether you pick him up from half court it don't matter he gonna get his but if you can contain the other four And manage them then you'll be alright. That's the problem that you ran into you let Shay get 34 And then you let the other guys go get 38 yo, so you've done nothing You can't I see if you got if you if you take some Shay

And you say you know what Shay you don't get 20 to 24 and those other guys go get 38 I can live with that. I can't let the man get above his average and still give up that Hey, cuz if I give Jordan if I let Jordan get his 40 and I let's see if I let Paxson go get 18 or Steve Kerr go get 15. What am I doing now? I'm really at his mercy cuz Jordan now I'm worried about Jordan going off, and now I got these other guys just shooting at me. Hey, I agree. I agree. But I think you gotta mix it up with him, huh? Oh, no, I'm not giving them a steady diet. I think the thing is, they letting one guy guard him too long.

They let them play too much one on one, J.O. Damn! That's what I'm saying. Like, they got him in this little soft catch, and it's like, man, he coming off, he got him at his will. Like, I think sometimes you kind of got to go under a couple of times. Maybe try a couple of times. You got to give him, mix it up, give him different looks to make him second guess when he coming off and picking him up. Because if you don't, he going to figure you out.

And once he figure you out, it's a wrap. Yeah, I think that. And the bigs sometimes are too low, even if they up, but the green is way too low, even if they up with the greener. Way too low with a guy that crafty, man. He is, even though they're picking them up full court, cause they doing a really good job on picking them up full court.

Yeah, they trying to wear him down. And he's just, he's switching gears, man. It's almost, it's magical to watch him play like that. And again, I just think that the way this game is being played right now, you just can't allow, and I agree with you on, you cannot everybody, I mean, it can't get everything. It can't get the bench going off,

they can't get SGA going off 30 plus. But I know that's what I'm saying. It seems like it's a strange finals, to be honest. You robbing, look here, Ocho. If somebody come into the jury's door, what we gonna aid? Are we protecting the diamonds and the watches or we worried about the necklaces and the bracelets? We gonna pick two things that we aid.

The diamonds and the watches, aid. We got that. If they take the bracelets, they take the necklaces, the hell with it. But we got to hold fast on the diamonds. They let Shaco get 34, they let two guys guys come up the bitch go nine of 18 from the three They like Shane like okay And the thing is is that when the big when he put him in the pick and roll they saw far so far back trying to Catch a head job catch it now. He's even with him. That's a foul you followed him. He's going to the basket

He's not once he gets even with that big, he's not looking to pass that ball, guys. He looking to put pressure on the rim, and you gonna foul it. It's really that simple. I agree. I agree. A lot of puff fakes getting into that. Yes.

I tell you what, them diamonds better be insured, because they can have it. I'm getting out of the way. They can have them diamonds. I'm getting out of the way. Listen, the pressure that Shay puts on the defense. Nah, nah, nah. You can have them time. I'm getting out of the way. Listen, the pressure that Shay puts on the defense, man, it's unbelievable. Like I say, guys, I think you got to mix up these defensive coverages, man, because he looks extra comfortable out there. And I know they're picking him up full court like they did.

Brunson, they're trying to wear him down, and they're probably hoping by game four he's a little tired. But man, when you look at Shay, look at his body type and look at his makeup, he is in the elite shape. He's not a lot of these guys who out here that's very high in body fat. You know, he looks like a guy who's out,

who really take care of his body. I'm being honest, yeah, he's super lean. And for me, he don't look like a guy who's going to wear down. Yeah, and I'll say this. One thing that people don't talk about is you always hear about all the threes and how many threes people taking. But he is killing in the mid-poles.

All season. He is killing. And what that has done, that has opened up everything else. You talk about the Carousels and the Wiggins going for open jump shots. He's getting in there. He's drawing the entire defense. And he's kicking at the peopleiggins going for open jump shots. He's getting in there. He's drawing the entire defense and he's kicking it to people and they're knocking down shots.

Absolutely. He's been efficient from the mid-range game all season long. What? Hey, hey guys, he's been, he's been one of, he's been probably what? One of two or three guys who shot over 50% for a season from the field. Like he's been- At the guard position, he in average 30. I mean, he and Mike. Yeah. I know, I know. I mean he's been at the guard position. Yeah, you know an average 30 I mean he and Mike. Yeah, I know I know I mean think about a guard

Yeah, a guard that's tough. J. Oh shoot 50% and scoring 30. Yeah, that's tough Now I know some of the efficiency has kind of went out in this postseason But for the most part, you know, he's been very consistent and he's been a load to deal with so Whatever they decide to do. They gotta kind of mix these things up a little bit. I mean, he shot 12 free throws and now he was 11 for 12 from the line. So it lets me know he understood the assignment meaning coming out, being aggressive. Hey, listen, guys, don't worry. I'm going to put y'all on my back tonight.

We are not going to Indiana down 02. And it was fun to watch tonight. Hey, yeah. You know I was going to say a piggyback and a little bit off of what Joe said. He's been like this all season right? You say he shot 50% throughout the season. Yeah he shot like 52% from before.

Yeah Gio talked about when you put that ball on the floor and you decide I'm going to get to that mid range depending on what you want to do and he's consistent at doing it over and over. So no matter what you throw at him, even if you say you wanna try, even if you say you wanna confuse him or make shots contested, then they use,

he's a foul merchant. He's always at the free throw line. Well, hell, he two steps ahead of you, no matter what you wanna do. He's already telling you, whatever your game plan is, I got something to counter that shit. Yeah, absolutely. And he's showing it.

He's been showing it all season long. But Ocho, you know this in Osport. If somebody comes out and all they play is single high safety, you gonna eat that up. If somebody come out, all they gonna play is cover two. All they gonna play is quarters. You've got to disguise it. You've got to give a guy, if you give a guy a steady diet of anything,

no matter the medicine, you build up resistance to it. There's a reason why they give you extra mass. It's okay. Take, take these and do you wean yourself off it. But if you just give a steady diet, you'll even antibiotics, whatever the medicine is at some point in time, you're going to have to fluctuate the dosage that you take. So if you just let them hard taken and let him play one on one, okay? Okay.

He gonna figure him out. Hey, Nii Smith, you got it. Okay, Mapparin, you got it. Hey, as a matter of fact, when he come to the pick and roll, hey guys, both of y'all popping. We gotta make him give it up. That's right. Look, especially with Hardenstein. We gotta make him give it up. That's what I'll do. Especially with a Hardenstein.

If Hardenstein, come on. Yeah. Hey, you know what he gonna do to you? Now, look at everything you just said. It's gonna be like a dude's gonna be like a woman that work at the Bunny Ranch in Vegas. He gonna run through everything. He gonna run through it.

And whatever you sitting at him, it's like you play Lamar Jackson. You just talked about all those different coverages You got to show him something. Yeah play Homes it'll matter what you show him. Oh, it don't matter You know slice and dice because these two steps ahead even understanding what's coming Yeah I gotta I gotta I gotta make him think about something

Cuz they're about one time that I throw to look at him and I get to hit put my helmet in the back Yeah, yeah, okay. Hey, they're gonna be be one, they're gonna be one thing, look, we don't like to chase ghosts. And guys, when we play football, we used to call it chasing ghosts. We're gonna prepare for what we've seen on tape. Now they're big, they're play 80% of this coverage, they play 10% of this coverage,

they play 5% of this coverage, 3%. Now I'm not gonna prepare for something that we haven't seen. I ain't chasing ghosts. But this is what I do know. Shay going to beat up, he's going to take the lion's share of the shots. He's looking to play one-on-one. And if you let him play one-on-one when that big is retreating, he gets even with him. He's not looking to pass. So I don't care.

He doesn't care if somebody does come at that point in time. How can I get to the rim or how can I get this shot off? Because like you said, he will stop, you jump, he jumps into you and he's looking to get an A and one. So I'm gonna give him a, I gotta change it up. Look, he's the MVP for a reason, but I got to do something. Well, ultimately this series may come down to really two people that they don't talk a lot about.

You got one coach in OKC that said they gonna play they style of play no matter what. Rick Carlisle who's the king of adjustment. Will that mindset from OKC, win them a finals or will Rick Carlisle's genius of being able to adjust when NBA finals for the NBA Pacers. To me, that's what it will come down to. We've seen Rick throughout the playoffs

make these subtle adjustments that allow the paces to win these series. And I think ultimately that may be the difference maker in this series. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Hey look, when you look at Wallace and you look at Hardenstein,

they didn't have great games offensively, but we talk about the second chance points. Wallace was a what? Plus 12 and the plus minus. Hardenstein was a plus 17, but the second chance points of Hardenstein tipping the balls out, tipping the balls back out against second chance. Reoffensive rebounds. Yeah, I think for me, that's kind of like what we were talking about in game one, you

know, coming late down the stretch. You playing that small ball and this game it was a lot different now Obviously they had more control in game two and they didn't let those runs happen. They did that happen in game one But for the most part I see okay see they gonna play their way They still gonna start with hungry gentle at the five and I guess they gonna see see what comes from that Obviously play the game tonight. So I'm sure they're gonna go with that same lineup starting game three. Shea follows up his game one, 38 point game one

with 34 tonight. It's the most points ever by a player in his first two career NBA finals games, 72. Wiggins, we mentioned 18 points in 21 minutes. He was five of three from the three point line. He was plus, plus 24. He's leading the finals in plus-minus so he did what he Alex Caruso 20 points six of 11 from the field four of eight from the three-point line tied for the most points ever in a playoff game but look Caruso has been here remember in

the bubble yeah remember how well he played for the Lakers LeBron love playing with him yeah cause guess what they had defensive presence out there you have a need to protect anything You had KCP that can hound you had Caruso that could hound and say hey, we good Yeah, so you look at what they have defensively. That's what makes them so good Jalen Williams can play defense at an elite level you got Wiggins you got Wallace you got Dort You got Caruso you Chet and Hardenstein protecting the rim. They are a very, very good team and they can rotate multiple times.

A lot of times, guys, J.O. and Joe, you know this, a lot of teams can only rotate one. They can rotate multiple times. Yeah, I agree. This is the young. Yeah. They're still the youngest team. And so one rotation, two rotation, three rotation, and they can still get back and know it.

If you beat them to the hole, they got checked. Put it over seven foot, put it over 6'11", Hardenstein, and check, test your luck. Hey look, I agree, I agree. Hey J.O., and my thing is, when it comes to Indiana, they rotations were so late tonight, especially getting out to those threes. I think it cost them too.

It cost them throughout the whole entire game. And OKC is great and coming out of traps or coming out of double teams and spraying out to the three, getting to those guys, they're not giving many wide open shots. So I think Indiana has to, they got to get on their horses when they come out of that, them traps, when Shay posting up, and they just leaving guys wide open.

I mean, you got two, three seconds before a guy even run out there and try to get a hand up. Right. You know, I think, but Indiana going back home and playing in that building, I think pace is gonna be a deciding factor for them. Yes. You know, they play with a lot of energy,

great fan base, energy's crazy inside that building. So I think them getting back, get even on scores, getting the ball out fast. Think about in the, in the previous, in the clinching games. Oh yeah. Make a miss. Yeah, they're gone. Pascal, I mean, that's the fastest I've seen him run, you know, since I've been watching basketball. And I've got to believe that, um, Pascal Siakam is going to be a difference maker. Oh, he has to be a difference maker, you know, come game three in his own building, right? With that crowd behind him, because the passiveness that he had to start this game. And I don't know, again, was the mindset, hey, we got us one, right? And we all know in sports, somebody can roll their damn ankle or something can happen.

And you know, you, everybody, everybody, if an injury awaits, you got to stay greedy, man. And you got gotta take what you can take and not expect that things gonna happen at home because, you know, you never know. And so I just believe, like, if they can get back into that pace, that pace of pace that they play at, which is fast and aggressive, you know, kicking and, you know, and driving that basketball,

they have a good shot at winning this. I like what OKC is doing. If you notice guys, they're getting to the outlets. So you know how they normally get to have an outlet right there. Those guys, they're not going all the way back. They say, nah, we're going to start these outlet passes because we know what y'all want to do. You want an outlet, one pass to the outlet,

and the next thing you know, you got Hallie Burton, Euro stepping and laying the ball up. You got Obe topping, Euro stepping and dunking the ball. So what we're going to do, we're going to take away the outlet. Dribble it up, Hallie. Dribble it up, Halle. Dribble it up, Nemhar. No, we're not giving you no quick bunnies. That's not gonna happen.

Weezy had some advice from Halle ahead of game two. This is what he tweeted. He said, Halle, you have to sweep these boys to get some real respect from these folks. Y'all clearly walking on water and they act like y'all surfing. Hang ten dude and make him ride your wave or drown. Ain't that a beach.

Hmm. I like it. I mean, sometimes you could be a, think about it. You could be a great something and just happen to be in the wrong era. There's a lot of great NFL quarterbacks, but if you played in the Manning and the, in the Tom Brady era, you ain't getting no credit. If you played in the Jordan, you was a guard. What guard got credit in the Jordan era,

in the 80s and then? What guard? Other than Magic in the 80s, and it was, he hit the 90s, nobody talking about nobody else but him. Yeah. That's the, you look at the, and Halle is an unbelievable player, but when you got Luca and you still got Steph and you got Shay, I mean,

you got Brunson doing his hero. It's like, J.O., you know how it is in the era you played, kind of like the tail end of the big era. I mean, look at all the bigs, but when Shaq was doing what he was doing, man, you, hey, unless you was Elijah One, or Robinson, but there was a really quality bigs, but you don't get credit because these other guys are playing so well. Steph Curry, James Harden is still in the league. Steph

Curry is still in the league. You got Lucas still in the league. So it's going to be hard for I think for Halle to get the credit that he deserves. Even if he wins, I still could believe it's gonna be hard for people to look at him as like, I still would take Luke over him. I would still take Steph. I would still take the X, Y, Z and T.

Well, the only reason why that is, right, if we talk about, you know, you heard this overrated stuff, right? A lot of it is the big game, then the disappearance. Yes. That is the only reason. Now we have a whole nother conversation is he come out tonight and he has 20 plus. You know, 20 plus points that really mattered, right?

You can look in the fourth quarter with the 12 that he scored in the fourth quarter, the war to get over, right? Empty calories, right? I think from a respect, I do believe he is learning, right? Because even you look at his body expressions on the bench, right, he's talking to himself, right? I think from a respect, I do believe he is learning, right? Because even you look at his body expressions on the bench, right, he's talking to himself, right? You gotta go through that experience, right?

Of people gonna take Luca, they gonna take Steph because they're gonna give you those 20, 30, 40s on every night. He's trying to really, it's almost like he's trying to find himself without deteriorating who he truly is, which is a past first point God. But it's almost like he's trying to find himself without deteriorating who he truly is, which is a past first point guy. And so we got to give a little bit of grace.

I just need him to be more aggressive to start and let the cards fall as they may as the game progress. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen.

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Angélique are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You know who was the past first point guard? Magic Johnson. Until he got his ass into NBA finals, and guess you're filling up your 76ers, and he went 42, 15, and seven. You say, to hell with that pass. He say, and sometimes that's what you have to do. I mean, you know, LeBron is really a pass, but at some point, Ty, at some point you gotta say, you know what, to hell with this. I will get mine, y'all rebound, and put it back in the hole if you can't get it back out.

And I think that's what Halle's gonna have to do. That's the approach he's gonna have to take. Yeah. It's all on knowing when to hit that switch. Magic knew when to hit that switch. LeBron knew when to hit that switch. It's all about Halle understanding when to hit that switch, especially doing it before your team goes down 15,

before your team goes down 20. Get your ass going. It seems like he comes out and he looks for those other guys to kind of get them going. Yes, him. Like, he has to understand he is him. You know what I mean? Like, he has to come out, set the tone, set the pace in which they want to play to be aggressive because, like you say, they won game one, so they did kind of seem a little,

like, okay, we done. They seem a little passive, seem content. Yeah, they seem a little, like okay, we done. They seem a little passive, seem content. Yeah, they seem a little content. So I expect a different paces team to show up in game three, guys, being at home, playing in front of their own crowd, a lot more confidence. These guys will probably play at a much faster pace.

They only had what, nine fast break points tonight? That ain't gonna get it for them to win. We know they've been a great fast break team the entire season. Yeah, it's gonna be hard to be okay OKC in a half-court scene. Yep. They got too many great defenders. Yeah.

They got their hands are too good. Shay had what? Four steals tonight? Shay had four steals tonight. They'll add us on last break points. Joe, but the thing about people that are talking about this, they got, remember coming through high school, they got the one kid that don't do nothing but run around with you.

He ain't out in the stars. Well, they got Dord out there, boy. Dord out there, he a shadow with these boys right now. And I think, people don't talk a lot about him. Obviously he's all defensive team, first team. Yeah. That is major when you can take somebody and say, look, he ain't playing tonight.

Right. Right? You run around with him. And that that is to me, and that does, I feel like that does have a little bit of an impact on what we see with Terese Halliburton early. Right. They're not letting him get a rhythm and not letting him get to his spots. They say, okay, y'all going to play four on four while me and you over here, you know, run around. Hey, I agree.

I agree with you. And I love Lou Dorg for that because his game isn't predicated off making shots or scoring. You know, that's the plus if he's giving you that. But he's in there strictly to be disruptive, to be a pest defensively and take out your best player. Ultimately, him and Wallace, that's why they're in the starting lineup. They're not necessarily not. They explode for 15 to 20 points. OK, we're going gonna pat him on their back It's gonna be hard to beat him if they play like that

But they're both in there for defensive purposes. No, and they've been doing a job special tonight. Yep This is what I'll say I said Rick Carlisle has been a coach for the past 23 years He could be the right man to elevate Halliburton's game and the paces to a championship caliber team I'll say Thomas said you went to an NBA finals, but you didn't win a championship until you met Phil Jackson. Zeke told Shaq tonight, Kobe Bryant didn't become Kobe until Phil Jackson got there. Jordan didn't win until Phil Jackson got there.

You got a coach in this series by the name of Rick Carlisle, 65 years old, and we saw him the other night run triple stagger, and none of these OKC players had seen that before. Rick Carlisle is bringing some old school stuff. This is a different style of style of basketball that OKC ain't used to playing against. Well, he got to come out with something else because I don't know what he ran tonight, but they ate that up. I don't know what that was, Joe, but OKC was ready for that. Yeah, they had to.

I mean, they at home, best team in the league, they lost game one. They had no choice but to come out and play desperate like they did tonight. But I look, I'm not putting them past the Pacers, man. They've shown up and proven to me this whole entire postseason that when you count them out, them boys gonna bounce back and they give you a great game. So the Pacers are still in control guys. Yeah. You know, it's got to protect the home court. I'm going to tell you guys, I had a chance to play for Ray Carlisle on Indy.

Right. And so I know the level of coach he is. I remember being in the huddle sometimes and he would just after the first, you know, get the two horns, the firstdle sometimes and he would just after the first to get the two horns the first one come He just sitting there looking in this so we had first horn. He starts to draw up sex Right that we typically you know, like in game situations, right? And that's the type of coach is you know, he's a saban He's a basketball saban and that's why I'm picking and willing to put a wager on the Pacers in game three Hey Yo, what you trying to do Joe? What we doing, J.O., a little friendly bet?

Hey, let me tell you all something. I mean, it's kind of conflicting for me because Janaro Pargo, I'm talking about my best friend, one of my best friends, he's assistant coach for the Pacers. So I'm, and then, you know, I got some former razorbacks playing for the Thunder, so I'm conflicted. But if you want to put a little something on it, J-O, you know, a little friendly. Nobody ever conflicted about money.

You notice that, Joe? And you notice about J-O, ain't nobody ever conflicted about money, old Joe. Ain't no conflict. No conflict at all about that. You know what you're going to do, baby? I mean, you know what I'm saying? What we're going to do? Well, we both got Zell, you know what I'm saying?

The cash. Yeah, something. Hey, look, it ain't gotta be. Nothing to make you nervous, J.O. Just a little light-hunted or two. It ain't nothing. We ain't gotta act like that, now. Hey, God damn it, Joe, I feel good about the Pacers, bro. See what I'm saying? I would do you.

Yeah. You feel good about them going home playing in front of their home crowd, huh? Absolutely. I ain't gonna lie, I do too, but I just think... I think OKC, man, they've been great on the road, fellas. They've been great on the road. They're going home, get some of that country kitchen, J.O. They go get some of the, you know, neck bone and

fried catfish, the wings, that mac and cheese. Hey, J.O., no, J.O., you know, you do have, some teams do have a tendency to kind of let their guards down when they get home No, they sleep in their own bed. You know, they get they relax a little bit They got you got 15 20 people coming in town cuz they want to see the final So now you got to entertain and oh no next thing, you know, yeah Next thing, you know, you tie how much how much how much NBA finals tickets cost? Oh man Listen, I was checking the dates. I was taking my son like second and third rows,

5,600 per ticket. Hey, oh, oh, oh, the type of- The only 56 I know is Lawrence Taylor, that's about it. Hey, cut it, hey, hey, them football tickets be, they head cracking now, man. Them football tickets be going 15, 20, 30, 40, 50,000. Yeah. Hey, look, you gotta look at the money these dudes making now.

Yeah. Well, that's one game. Right. You talk about serious. But I know the front row of the floor seats was almost 12,000 per seat. But, J.O., think about how high you up, how high you in the stadium, at least, at least you could yell something, they can hear you. You saw how I'm paying $4,000, five, $6,000. Ain't nobody here, but a dude next door, man, stop on a damn deal. Hey man, check this out.

Let me know what y'all think about this. The Knicks are reportedly preparing to make a tsunami-type offer to acquire Yanis from the Bucks. Yahoo Sports is reporting the New York Knicks would receive Yanis. Milwaukee would give them Carl Anthony Tiles, Tyler Colick, Washington's 2026 protected first round draft pick two first round pick swaps 26 and 2030. Nah, hell nah, that ain't enough. Who's a talent? What about a tsunami?

Who's a second? That ain't even a damn raindrop. Hold on. Hold on. Let me read that again. Cause maybe it's B. Jay, I will get you a joke. What y'all think about this? Okay, the Knicks would get Giannis,

and in return, Milwaukee would get Carl Anthony Towns, Tyler Colick, Washington's 20-26 protected first-round pick, a first-round pick, and two pick swaps in 26 and 30. That ain't no tsunami. Man, hey look, no disrespect, but who was the second dude you said? I don't even know who that is. I don't know, hey, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I don't know who that is. J-O, what they doing? That's tsunami, ain't no tsunami. But boy, listen, if the Knicks pull that off, we... Yeah, I mean. You ain't gonna have to. But boy listen if the niggas pull that off we Mean You know happen that's a tough one man because right now any mega trade you got to give up You got to give up some core right? Yeah Gotta make sure

One of the things I think is unvalue is the other the other players right support system, right? You start pulling out a way to go get a mega player player, then you're gonna be in probably the same place or worse by the time the mecha player get there. So, and listening to that deal, I didn't hear anything that to me will bring value back to Milwaukee. Right. No! So, I mean, hell no.

So, in other words, I'm gonna give you Yarny's. That's not a tsunami, that's robbery. Exactly. Hey, so let me get this right. I'm gonna give you Yarnist, and I ain't gonna try to get McHale Bridges, I'm not gonna try to get OG out of Nobe, I ain't gonna try to get none of them,

because you basically gonna give them a championship if you give them Yarnist. Yeah, yeah. They gonna be in the Eastern Conference Finals for sure. Yup. Think about it. You think about, so now you got a defensive team with Yonah's that can protect.

You got Josh Hart that can defend. OG that can defend. Mikael Bridges that can, man stop it. Whoever proposed this trade y'all be. Hey, they did this. Somebody do a play, that's not even a phenomenon. That's not even a real play. That one, you tsunami that's not even a ripple. That way, you know, that's not happening.

That was just to create a distraction, you know, to let you know. So what's going on behind the scenes can go under the radar. That's all that was. But I give them credit, they put, hey, we gonna give y'all cat. They put the head like cat first. And I agree with you.

I'm like, hold on. Tyler Colick, who is he? I protected, no, that 2026, he need to be unprotected. Man. Yeah. I don't understand it, if you gonna make a trade like that, was it the coach or is it the roster? Was it both?

I think the thing is when they beat the Celtics, now you get what you call expectations of jail because so now you beat the Celtics, everybody said, my man, they gonna run through the paces and it was supposed to be in the NBA finals. And when it didn't happen. They was supposed to be in the NBA finals and when it didn't happen

Hey, look Listen, if the knees get youngest man, they can put me ahead coach. I promise you we gonna win some games You hear me? We gonna make it we gonna make it to these conference finals for sure you get y'all this plan with all them other dudes and you Only giving up cat and that other dude you talking about I'm sorry. I don't even know who that is, but boy listen, it ain't gonna take much. I definitely think there are other teams that have more, could give up more.

Hell, go to Houston and ask, okay, give me Shungoon. Give me Jalen Green. Give me two couples, but now that's better than Cat and this other Cat. Yeah. I mean, come on, Jay. I mean, bro, an evil swamp ain't no swindle. I feel you trying to swindle me.

Hey, listen, but what about this? What if Yannis don't want to go out west? What if he want to stay in the east? Because the east would be a lot smoother. First, the west. He said he wanted to, what's being reported, he wanted to go somewhere where they don't have any state taxes. Texas doesn't have state tax.

Florida doesn't have state tax. Hey, there you go. I think Tennessee doesn't have state tax. Well, you go to New York, A and then P. Ohio doesn't have state tax. I don't think Ohio have state tax. New York's one of the worst. They do?

Yep, New York and LA, two of the worst. Yeah. Listen, he already told you where he wanted to go. Uncle, all you got to do is read between the lines. That's all. But I mean, the question then is, you know, you kind of look at the Lakers, right? Yeah. Right.

The Lakers is they made the big, you know, make the big trade and just, you know, Anthony Davis basically for Luca, but they're making so much money between the two. You don't have enough money to construct the team at the right. You need to write. And so, you know, the apron, the new tax apron deal just kicked in this year. Oh, yeah, he's a little bit more bootstrapped. So the question is, wherever, wherever Yannis goes, wherever he lands, do they have enough,

giving away whatever they got to give away, to compete for a championship? Absolutely. Well, if they only giving up Kat and Colick, that's who on your screen. You see the guy, that's Tyler Colick on the screen right there, guys. Oh, that ain't having me, Colick.

Man, hold on, hold on. Ah, ah. And then Bum-Bil-Bum, there ain't no way y'all just sitting me Kat and this Kat. Nah, I ain't going. Hey, boy, Tyler nice with it, man. totally got some game. Oh, here you go. That man don't know that is Yeah, no, you don't Oh Joe

Yeah, but the same man, but But jail if all you give it up in cat and this gentleman that you see on the screen They loaded. Oh man who came up with this? This is a lie. It's not a lie, bro. There's no way they're doing that, bro. They just talking, bro. They try to get some tweets and some likes

and some retweets. There's no way they do. Now, you're gonna have to give up. You're gonna lose OG or Mikael Bridges. You're gonna lose one of them. But then that's kind of defeating the purpose, if you're honest, right? If I'm going to New York, man, I at're gonna lose one of them. But then that's kind of defeating the purpose of you, Yannis, right? If I'm going to New York, man, I at least want to keep one of them dudes. If you gonna get... Yeah, you keep one of them, but you ain't keeping both of them.

Okay, I can see that, but you can't take both of them, because now you take our grit and grind away, and everything is left up to Yannis and Brusson to do all the dirty work. Hey, you could have one, but I ain't letting you keep both of them. So what is it? Which one you want, JL? You want OG or you want Mikhail Bridges? But I'm getting one of them.

I'm getting with Mikhail Bridges. Okay. I think OG just does, he does a lot more. I mean, he does a lot more offensively and defensively, but I don't know. Crazy, I like Kat. I like him. Do rethink Giannis and Brunson can play together because Brunson is a ball.

They so much alike. They both need the ball a lot. A lot. So I don't know if you make that, you give, I don't know. I mean. It don't look good because both of them usage rate. What is, what is Brunson's usage rate? What's Yonah's usage rate? Because both of those guys have the ball in order for them to function.

I don't think either guy is really good without the ball. Yeah, I agree. Yonah's not great without the ball. He's most effective when, you know, he has a ball in his hand coming down hill, whether it's off a rebound or what have you, but making plays, spraying out the guys for threes and getting to the basket, putting pressure on the rim. That's when he's at his best. Yonah's was first in usage with 35,

Brunson with 13th at 29. So you got two guys with high usage. And I don't think with Brunson and Yonah, I don't think Brunson is that good without the ball. Nah, he's not that great, but he can play without it. He can catch and shoot. As opposed to Yonis, he's not a catch and shoot person at all.

So if you run in a pick and roll, he ain't a shoot person. Damn catching and shooting, he ain't a shoot person. He a layup and dump type person. Right, so listen, if you run in a pick and roll with Yonis and Brunson, that don't scare me. Right. Versus, you know, Cat and Brunson, because Cat can pick and pop.

What, pick and pop? So the big- Yannis ain't picking and popping-ish. Yeah, he ain't. So the big will always stay low and let Yannis shoot that jumper all day long. All day long. Yeah. That's why I don't like-

I don't like them trading Cat, though. Right, because at least Cat, man, I get it. All day long. That's why I don't like them trading cat though. Right, because at least cat man, I get it. He doesn't defend as well, but he's different from anything else that they have, right? And if he really, really looked in the mirror and said, look, every time I take my ass to that box, I'm working him, right? Every time he just works on it

and then he just go back out to the three point line and stand on the three point line. If he really just get to that dominant form, man, he can be everything that Knicks need. Obviously adding a couple more pieces here and there, but I like, I like Kat with the Knicks. I don't like Giannis with the Knicks. I like Kat too, J-O, but it's less resistance

out there on the perimeter form versus if he in that paint, it's just a doggy dog world down there. It's just, it's a doggy dog world. I know it's great. It's great. Grind. You know what I mean? It's a lot. They bumping and grind down there. He ain't want that.

He, that is what he looking for. Yeah. You gotta be, you gotta be in some elite shape to be able to, you know, take that bump and grind night in and night out. And I think that's why he always drifts back out to the three because like you say, not, not, it ain't going to be no resistance out there. Like it's, you know, guys, he could just sit out there and just kind of shoot jumpers. But, Joe, let me ask you a question, though.

I'm sitting trying to think, who the hell outside of him and Bede, who the hell down there? Jokic. It ain't about, we just talking about it. It ain't about... Yes, yeah. It ain't about like four or five. Oh, so it's... It's Kat, it's Joel and Bede, it's Jokic, it's Shungoon, it's Rudy Gobert.

And he ain't really posting, right? He ain't really doing that stuff, right? Or Sabonis, or you take Sabonis. Yeah. So to me, it ain't the grind in the post, to me it gotta be his conditioning and how in shape he is. Absolutely. And I, every night it was a power four, right?

You know, I did not in there, you spin off one, there's another one there, right? They talking about the two bigs from tonight, shit, that was normal. Right? Yeah. But so now when I look at it, typically when he's playing that post, he's bigger than everybody.

Yeah. He is. But maybe except for three or four of the people in the lead. Yeah. Yeah, he definitely got the skills to score down there. So to me, I think he got in a little bit better shape, right? To have a little bit more endurance, so he can mix and match how he wants to play his game, he'd be a lot better. But you know, it's a hard rock to see him get up, try to get up down to court at that

age. You know, what is he, what, 28 now? Twenty... can't probably like 29. Yeah, he look like he labor, especially in this post. Yeah, 29 up and down that floor. Hi, I'm Sarah Spain, host of Good Game with Sarah Spain and the co-author of the new book Runs in the Family, an incredible true story of football, fatherhood and belonging written with and about Las Vegas Raiders running backs coach Dylan McCullough.

It's the story of a football coach and father of four who sees his life forever changed by the unsealing of his adoption records. And it's got a twist you won't believe. Based on the viral ESPN story I did a few years ago, this book will blow your mind and bring you to tears. Buy runs in the family wherever books are sold. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company,

the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.

Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.