Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: Unc, Ocho, Iso Joe, and Gary Payton react to the Pacers going up 2-1 over the Thunder in the NBA Finals

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson, Iso Joe Johnson and NBA legend Gary Payton react to the Tyrese Halliburton and Indiana Pacers beating Shai Gilgeous Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder to go up 2-1, Lou Williams compares Shai Gilgeous Alexander to Kobe Bryant, and Kevin Durant had time today on twitter and much more!04:00 - Pacers v OKC51:00 - Lou Williams compares SGA to Kobe58:42 - KD had time today(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome to the You vs. You podcast. I'm Lex Barrero, inviting you to go beyond the titles and the accolades of the world's most successful entertainers. Each week, we take off the Cape and get real about the inner battles, childhood stories, and the moments that shaped our guests. Get inspired to become the best version of you. Listen to You vs. You podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Sarah Spain, host of Good Game with Sarah Spain and the co-author of the new book Runs in the Family, an incredible true story of football, fatherhood and belonging written with and about Las Vegas Raiders running backs coach Dylan McCullough. It's the story of a football coach and father of four who sees

his life forever changed by the unsealing of his adoption records. And it's got a twist you won't believe. Based on the viral ESPN story I did a few years ago, this book will blow your mind and bring you to tears. Buy runs in the Family wherever books are sold. The Volume. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. We got us a series. We got us a series. Indiana 116, OKC 107, 2-1 lead with another game in Indy. Can they possibly go up 3-1? Thank you guys for joining us for another episode of Nightcap.

I am your favorite dog, Shannon Sharp, my partner and co-host, Liberty City's own, bingo, ring of fame honoree, pro bowler, all pro, wearing his Iso Joe cut off hoodie. That's Chad Ocho Cicco Johnson. Hold on, not just the hoodie, I got the shorts on too. Oh, you got them hoochie daddies on? Yeah, he out there looking like John Black, bro. The third member of our team, y'all know him,

Arkansas, Little Rock, Arkansas native, University of Arkansas alum, played a number of years, at least 15 years in the NBA. That's Iso Joe, Joe Johnson. And joining us, a special guest to break down this game. Y'all know him, 73rd anniversary routine, NBA champion, defensive player of the year, Olympic gold medal winning. That's GP, the club, Gary Payton, GP, what it do?

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84 with 84 being spelled out. The link is pinned in the chat. Supplies are limited and once they're gone, they are gone. So please grab yours while supplies last. The Pacers, the Pacers beat the Thunder. The Pacers win the first finals game in Indy in 25 years. Take a 2-1 lead with another game in Indy, 1-16 to 1-07.

They did a better job of limiting Shea at the free throw line. He only got to the line six times. Nine of 20 from the floor. They did a great job on him. But still, the Thunder had three guys in the game with 20 or more points. But it was the bench of Indiana Pacers that won this game.

Benedict Matron had his best game, 27 points a career high. Two or three from the three point line, seven or eight from the free throw line. TJ McConnell came in and did what TJ McConnell normally does. And Obi Topping was flying high. That put back dump really energized the crowd. Joe, we're going to start the U and then we're going to pass it off to GP. How did the Pacers win this game? Man, Ocho, GP, they had that intensity that they needed, you know, especially from the bench.

I thought, okay, see, I played them in their first quarter, but when they made them subs, Matheran, TJ McCollum, they came in, rose the energy up to another level, took it to another level. And you look at Matherin, the way he played, man, just being aggressive offensively, making plays, just being disruptive defensive. TJ, I don't know how many steals he got that led to points. And OKC was just so careless with the basketball. It was uncharacteristic of them tonight. But we got to give Indiana credit, man. They've been doing it all postseason, like we continue to say, and we continue to count them out.

They continue to keep fighting. And tonight, they pretty much had control of this basketball pretty much throughout the entire game. TJ McCormack had five steals tonight. GP, you watched this game in its entirety. In Indiana, the team, they go on the road, and every series, they won game one. They lost game two in OKC. It was really a blowout, but they came home,

normally come home, they normally lose game three. But tonight was different. They got off to a slow start in the first quarter. They pick it up, get 40 points. They got 40 points against the best defensive a slow start in the first quarter. They pick it up, get 40 points. They got 40 points against the best defensive team in basketball in the second quarter. And then have a little lull in the third quarter. They pick it right back up in the fourth and go get 32.

So those combined quarters, the second and the fourth, they get 72 points. What were they able to do tonight that caused OKC so much trouble in this ball game? Well, Shannon, what I really think is that what Joe said was that they picked up their intensity on defense. I think they were into a lot of players a lot more. I think they were into Shea a lot more. Then Shea tried to take it onto his hands and become one of them players where he wanted to prove that he can go instead of passing the basketball and getting it around and getting

other players involved. So they picked up the defense and they did a great job. I think to me where they lose basketball games, OKC, is when they get out of their means, when they turn the ball over. When they turn the basketball over, they're not OK. And then that takes away from their their defense because their lows did that. And then what the Indiana did was when they turned the ball over, they scored. They scored the basketball.

When people turn the ball over and you score, that takes a lot of offomph off of you. Then what they did was in the third quarter, they try to neutralize it. They go up what, five at the end of the third. But then what do the subs come and do for Indiana? They come and pick that energy back up. They pick the energy back up off of turnovers. And then it takes away from your game when you turn the basketball over and you score.

You guys, you could say, I think off of turnovers, what? I think they outscored him by 20. I think Indiana outscored him by almost 20 points. And that hurt him. And then at the end of the game, if you don't make free throws, to get back in the game. If they make them free throws, this game becomes closer.

And then when the Indiana comes down and put pressure on them to score the basketball. But if you don't score, if you don't get these free throws, what happens? They come down there, be comfortable. They still up eight or nine points and you lose the basketball game. And that's what happened. But you got to give a credit to Indiana for coming off the bench with their high energy And they take the gang to them. They're at home They took the gang to them and I don't know how Oklahoma's gonna come back

But I think they're gonna come back strong because I know that they're gonna have to match their intensity because Indiana is not gonna come here It's just lay down. Right and you look at it. We talked about something the other night guys We said shape I said man when you come out that pick and roll, double his ass, trap him. You see what they did tonight? They trapped his ass, Joe. They got turnovers off that. They tied him up, got jump balls. You got to try something. You cannot let him play one on one. He's as good a one on one player as they have in the NBA. And he puts that shoulder into him and gives separation. Go ahead, GP.

Who do you think, who, who, who, who, what team, Joe, and you too, and Ocho, when they don't win, when they saw a player and people do that to them all the time, what team is that? The Golden State Warriors, when they get to step up like that. Yes. They are not an effective basketball team. And I think a lot of teams that understand one-on-one basketball players, when they come up to pick a role,

get the ball out of their hand and make people who don't know what they're, that's not normal of doing that and handling the basketball and making big time plays, make them big time, make them make big time plays. And Oklahoma only has one guy who can do that, it's Sa-Shea, and that's William. He's the only other basketball player that can do it

And what do they do? They let him school all the boys and they take Shay out and he go nine for 20 and they lose the basketball game I'm sure no, but you know I still think Oklahoma should be very really confident because you're turning the ball over that many times It's still in a basketball game to win it right your company's got to be hot ball over that many times is still in a basketball game to win it. Right. Your company's gotta be hot. Oh Joe, we looked at, we looked at, okay, see what they did to, uh, Indiana.

The first game that turned them over 25 times, they lost the game. Indiana found a way to get close in the fourth and they want it down to stretch. We watched the second game. I think they turned them over 17, 18 times and they won the ball game going away. This game, they only created 14 turnovers. Indiana did a better job of taking care of the basketball. Now, and Halliburton, he didn't have his best game handling the ball,

because Halliburton doesn't normally turn the ball over. He had two or three really careless, careless turnovers. Like they picked him back at half court, which he normally doesn't do. What do you think OKC needs to do to make sure they don't go down 3-1 going back to OKC? Because look, they had three guys with 20 plus points. Again, Shea was not as efficient this game

as he was the second game. Remember he was like what? Level of 21 the second game. He had 34 the first game. He was really inefficient, had 38. But you had Chad Hongren, six of 15, inefficient. They only shot, they shot the ball 47% for the fourth. They had 20 points from Chad.

They got 26 from Jalen Williams. They got 24 from Shay. But their bench didn't give them anything. Remember Joe, Ocho, GP? The last game, their bench. Remember Wallace, remember Caruso. What they gave them off the bench? The tides were flipped. You got 27. You got 49 points from Indiana's bench. Ocho, what do you see? What did you like about what you saw from Indiana and what you didn't like from OKC?

Well, listen, honestly, you know, I picked the Pacers to win the series. So I like what I saw from OKC. You like everything you saw. I like everything I saw from A.O.K.C. I like everything I saw from them. Listen, the Pacers just played to me, based on my eyes and my little bit of knowledge of basketball that I've learned to date. The Pacers tonight played the most complete game of the finals. They didn't wait until they was down.

They didn't wait until they was down to the side, to kick and gear. Defensively, what they did defensively, getting the ball out of Shays hands, coming off those picks, coming off those rolls and forcing other people to make plays. I think that was key defensively what they were able to do. The goddamn bench was really the stars. It wasn't Halliburton.

It wasn't Siakam. It wasn't them hard. It was what them boys did off the bench. They got damn TJ McConnell and young brother. I ain't heard nobody named Benedict boys since 1968. You hear me? I ain't gonna tell you that. But excuse me, excuse me.

If I put your last name Benedict material, did I say that right? Matheran. Mackron Mack. Matheran. Matheran. Okay. Matheran. Well, young boy had 27, 27, what do you want?

27 pulling. More rebounds. One of this a block. Listen, he was efficient, he was a game score higher. He had zero fear. He had zero fear of GP. But listen, this wasn't just like a heat check shooting, right? This was playoff boys.

I like they letting them play too. But you know what? I've noticed something about him. I have a question. When he doesn't get in foul trouble early. Yeah. You notice if when he gets in foul trouble early, he takes away his aggressiveness away from him.

He's not the same player GP Joe and Ocho. He's not the same. Tonight, he stayed out of foul trouble. He stayed aggressive from the moment Carlisle put him in the game. He was aggressive for the entirety of the game. Yeah, I agree. Hey, and when you look at Halliburton, look how he started the game. I know they didn't win the first quarter, but he was ultra aggressive in that first

quarter. He was ultra aggressive. We talk about his aggressiveness to start the game. He wasn't passing. He was looking for his shot. He was getting to the cup. He was getting into paint, cause of havoc and being disruptive and in in in Okc's defense and making plays and GP you notice when you got a team shooting 51% from the field

Yeah, it's gonna be hard to beat every time It's like ok see it's like they defense has kind of went into a like a lap So where they can't get stops is It's hard for them to get stops. So it's hard for them to get out and get points. So if you play it in this high scoring game like this, 116 points for the Pacers, this the pace they want. They want they want it high scoring like this. You know what the problem is, Joe, is that all of their players are aggressive.

That's probably it's not just one guy, two, three guys aggressive. Right. Right. I mean, I'll be aggressive. That's the problem. It's not just one guy, two, three guys aggressive. It's coming out being aggressive. And against a great defensive team, what do you have to do to a great defensive team? Attack them. You have to attack every time and all of them are attacking and then on the other end, they're being aggressive more. And they don't get it.

A lot of them getting three and four files, then they hit a sub and then Carlisle a sub, being aggressive more and they don't either. A lot of them getting three and four files in their sub and then Carlisle sub bringing somebody else and everybody's comfortable. When you get a team that's comfortable and that can match you and this Indiana team can match Oklahoma, they are not gonna beat them.

They're not gonna beat them if you let them be comfortable and they don't turn the ball over and they make you turn the ball over and get you out of your game. They're not going to beat them. And especially at home, they're not going to be the Indiana team that can be more aggressive and have the energy coming in and making shots and doing things. They're not going to be. And you look, you look at it.

They had, I mean, the guys, the Rick Carlisle is doing a great job with minutes, Siakam 32 minutes. Neesmith, 22 minutes. Turner, 30 minutes. Nimhar, 33 minutes. Halliburton, 36 minutes. Obie Toppin, 28 minutes. McConnell, 15 minutes. Matburn, 22 minutes.

Shepard, 18 minutes. You see? Hey, give me everything you got while you out there. And when you get tired, put your hands up and I'll put somebody else in the game. And... And they have no let up. No let up. And like you said, they're being aggressive. They know it's become very difficult guys. We know OKC has a great defense. You got to stay out of half court because if you let those guys because they got tremendous wing defenders, everybody is scrapping.

Everybody got hands. You look at Wallace, you look at D Dor, you look at Caruso, Isaiah Joe Wiggins. All those guys can sit in the chair and slide multiple times. So they're doing a great job trying to get points in transition so they can't set up. I love what I saw. Look, Indiana, everybody had to wrote them off. I mean, they were like one of the biggest favorites, OKC were, to win

the finals that we've had in a very, very long time. And then I say, guess what? We weren't favored against Milwaukee. We weren't favored against Cleveland. We weren't favored against the Knicks. So we weren't, so we're not going to be favored. So guess what? We're going to have one of the, if they were to win this, this would be one of the most improbable runs. And when you figure they're doing it without a superstar player, when was the last time somebody won a finals without a superstar player? Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on. They, they're saying, you're saying they don't have a superstar player,

but they don't player that's playing like a superstar and is having a historic playoff run. No, no, making shots doesn't make you a superstar, Ocho. Halliburton, Halliburton is not a superstar. Hold on, I'm gonna agree with you on that one. Hold on, I- Ocho, I'm gonna agree with Uncle Ned. He's not a superstar, he's a player. He's a good basketball player, but he's not a superstar.

You might be right, Ocho, he's playing like a superstar right now. He's playing like. He's a good basketball player, but he's not a superstar. You might be right, Ocho. He's playing like a superstar. OK, he's playing like that right now. He's stepping up to the game because I think in my mind, he's an all around complete point guard. Yes, sir. Everything happened. He thinks get his players into it first, and then he does everything and then he'll score.

Yeah, but he has to, you know, but he's not that that player to score. You know, I'm not going to say go get him and put him on a team. And then I think I can get 40 from him every night. That's not going to happen. But he is playing like a superstar right now. I will give you that, Ocho. Right. Not a superstar, but he's playing like that.

Right. Go ahead. Think about it. We had that conversation before not long ago. Remember, remember we talked about superstar and star was the first thing. Not a superstar, but he's funny like that. Right. Go ahead, O.K. We had that conversation before, not long ago. Remember, we talked about superstar a star? What's the first thing I say? I say, listen, he's a star.

He's a star, but the way he's playing in this playoffs, coming up in clutch moments for the Pacers, is like he's a goddamn superstar. And just based on what I've seen right now, you know, I'm the piggyback off of GP saying he's a star playing like a superstar in the most opportune moments for the Pacers. And when they win these series, like I told y'all what's gonna happen, I'm just gonna sneak that in there, Joe. You owe me $100 too. I don't want that.

I'm just gonna listen. Oh, listen. Listen. Money out of sight calls a fight. I don't want that. Listen. Hey, money out of sight calls a fight. I don't want to have to. Listen, hey, hey, GP, listen, so listen, the last series, no, obviously the Knicks didn't win so I was upset.

So Joe and I, we got a little bet. So you know, each game we got a hundred dollar bet on each game. Yeah. So you don't want to. So you have 200 and Joe won one. So yeah, you up a honey Right the man Joe cash happy bank

Halle playoff heroics have earned him a new nickname in the basketball reference his name now is GP Ocho and Joe Tyrese the moment Halliburton. The Moment. I like it. I like it. I like it. I like it.

I like it. Because he plays in the moment. He'll give you what he has to in the moment. He'll make a big shot at that moment. He might not be playing well at all time, but when the moment come and the lights shine on him, he always performs. So I will give him that nickname.

I like it. I like what, Joe, I like what you said. That he would, he know he went to the store and he was just, hey, he just went and didn't do nothing. Nah, try on some ish. Bro, you understand. I would try on a pair of jeans, I would try on a shirt. Hey, how about them shoes?

I would try on something. Tonight, he came out, he wasn't looking to just pass the ball. Hey, no, hey, see how come you do it. Hey, hey, Miles Turner, hey, Nim Hart. No, no, you, you the guy. And you see when he's aggressive, when he's in the 20s and he has 11 assists,

so now he's giving you his 20, now you got 11 assists, you know, a couple of those gonna have to be off the threes. So now he's giving you his 20. Now you got 11 assists. You know, a couple of those going to have to be off of threes. So now he's getting everybody involved and he's involved. They can definitely win this series if he's going to play like that, but we shouldn't have to have like, damn Halle, come on, bro, why we got to tell you every other game, you need to be aggressive. That should be understood. The game is so much easier for you guys

when you do what you're supposed to be. And I understand GP, he's a past first point guard. He's not, first of all, he's a true point guard. We got a lot of guys masquerading and they're masquerading as points, but they're really two guards. Russ, Barton, Luca, those are really two who's masquerading at points.

Shannon, Shannon, in the NBA, tell me, what did all the point guards play in this NBA right now? The point guards, what do they play in college? The two guard. Two, yes. 32 or one, and that's why I hate when people come into my area and talk about, oh, he's one of the greatest point guard.

No, you not. You a four. He's a two masquerading of a point. Get out of my lane, man. When I was playing, man, we was true point guards, man. You know the CMBDs are two. I watched them in college play the two that was converted to a one.

You know what I'm saying? He is true. It's only two point guards that he had been at right now. And that's that's Chris Ball and him. They are true point guards. Right. Look, pass the ball and get people better. And then they come and do. But Alan Bird, he does he does everything.

He rebounds the basketball. Yeah. He makes assists and then he scores when he has to. You know what I'm saying? And that's a point guard to me. He was a rebound short of a triple double. He was a rebound short of a triple double. 22 points, 11 assists, eight rebounds. He was, excuse me, nine rebounds.

One rebound short of a triple double. Go ahead, Ocho. GP, I'm glad we agreed on what we talked about earlier about Halliburton being a star and not a superstar. What do you need to see from him? What do you need to see from him for him to be a superstar in your eyes? What else does he have to do?

Or kind of run consistently? But what team he's on, to me, for you to be a superstar nowadays in this era, and Joe would know that. I think you would have to be more superstar nowadays in this era. And Joe would know that. I think you would have to be, you have to be more of a scorer, you have to be more dominant, you know? And he's not that type of basketball player. So what it is is that now people have to say,

you're a superstar because of what his production is every night. Now if he comes and get a triple double and averages triple double for the year, now you become a superstar. And if your team is winning on a consistent basis and doing the things that you do, then you gotta do it. But as y'all know, you gotta be known to be a superstar.

That's it. They gotta just start saying, oh you. Red recognition? Yeah, you gotta get recognition. Oh Joe, how much money you paying to go see Halliburton? Don't do that, don't do that. You're dropping, oh, hey, GP. Joe, you gotta tell him.

Yeah, but listen, that is true, Old Joe. Who is coming every night to say, I'm gonna pay a thousand, two, $3,000 to come see how it run. Okay, that's not a Pacers fan. Yeah, a lot of Pacers fan because where you go, you gotta go to, you gotta go to what? 30 something- But you got 41 games on the road.

You gotta go to 30, you gotta go to 30 something other cities. You gotta go to like 29 or whatever, I mean teams in tour, 29, 30 teams. You gotta go to 29 other cities and see who comes and pay that money on. He's gonna be the man in Indiana. Yes, that's where he plays at. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures

and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen.

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the You vs. You podcast. I'm Lex Berero, and every week we sit down with some of the biggest names in entertainment

to talk about the real stuff, the struggles, the doubts, and the breakthroughs that made them who they are. We go deep, flowing childhood trauma, family, overcoming loss, and the moments that shaped their journey. These honest conversations are meant to take the cape off our heroes, with the hope that their humanity inspires you to become a better you and therefore set you free to live the life of your dreams. Here's a sneak peek.

I'm trained to go compete. I'm trained to go harder. But sometimes that mentality stops you from stopping and smelling the flowers in your own garden. Is it wrong to want more? We migrated. Our family migrated here. I'm like second generation. Who's not going to have a trauma coming from a foreign country and coming to the United States, not even speaking English?

Listen to You Versus You as part of Michael Tudor Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He's perfect for them. Yeah, that's what he is. He's perfect for Indiana. And we're not trying to minimum. I like, you know what? I like that nickname. That nickname, the moment is very marketable.

He should run with that. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I put that on my shoes. I'm put, hey, as a matter of fact, I'm changing my social media. I'm the moment. You see what Paul Preem is doing? I'm the moment.

I'm the moment. I'm the moment. I'm the moment. I'm the moment. I'm the moment. I'm the moment. I'm the moment. I'm run with that. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I put that on my shoes I'm put a as a matter of fact, I'm changing my social media. I'm the moment you see what paul prius did with the truth. Oh, yeah, you'll call me dead with mamba Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, don't nobody call shakil shakil. He's shag. He the dvd Wait, he was air lebron

The big chamber dc, oh he everything He was Aaron, LeBlanc. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey me when I watch him play. Because even when they down, GP, they still picking up 94 feet. They picking up 94 feet,

they gonna weigh you down. And I like the fact that they switched up the coverages today. Like, man, don't get Shadesteaded, all right? Make him think about it. Because now when he come off that pick and roll, GP, Ochoa, now he thinking like, OK, damn, are they trapping? Are they going to get, are they going to be Are they gonna get, are they gonna be in a drop? What are they gonna be in? So now he's kind of second guessing himself on how to make his moves. And I thought it worked for him.

If he turned his back, hey, the guy that he turned his back to, go to it. But they got four guys that do that. And they're pressuring him. And what they're doing is they're they're trading off guard and they and they even keep him pressure on him and what that does is say is that he starts saying I can't get my game off can't get my game off so what he do he start he start forcing things present he tried to start to go by he won't even give up the ball. If the double come, he'll keep it.

And then they start putting their hands in there and sticking them. And he and he turned the ball up. But the one thing that's killing me, the referees are not calling that. They let him play. They let him play. Right. So that's hurting, too, because he usually gets the bounce. But now I'm getting that even when he going to the bucket and they're bumping me, they're not calling that.

And he's taking fouls. He's taking shots. He's trying to say like, it's going to be an end one. But them balls are just saying, them referees are saying, no, play. This is what we going to do. And it's making this game very hard right now. We've given OKC guys a lot of credit. I think we need to give them hard. We need to give Nese Smith. We need to give Mappert. We've given OKC guys a lot of credit. I think we need to give Mim hard.

We need to give Neesmith. We need to give Mappert. We need to give Shepard. We need to give those guys credit because they're doing, as you said, they're doing an unbelievable job. Each guy is a little different. Each guy has a different body type

and they're playing him different ways. So he's not getting used to any one person. Neesmith got him for a minute. Mim hard to take him. And now M him for a minute, Nemhar to take him. And now Mathern comes in, Mathern takes him, and then Shepherd comes in, he'll deal with it. Hey, see y'all, hey look, once again, he turn his back, hey, y'all come.

Cause he's not one of these point guards like a Luca or LeBron that's really that, he goes to the basket and he's looking to kick out for three. He's looking to get the ball up to the rim. So, Hey, come from behind. Swat. That's how many, how many times did a Siakam get it down? How many times did a miles Turner?

So I think we need to give a rifle. And so, okay, see, we know what they are defensively, but I think we need to give the Pacers because they're doing an unbelievable job. What? 20 points in the third they gave up 20 dollar 20 15 they get 15 points in the fourth quarter 28 points in the second quarter, so that's 43 points over two quarters And look at the Pacers man ahead 11 blocks. Yes 11 blocks so it lets you know they contested everything. They very aggressive and they make it tough on OKC, man. I love to see it, guys. This

is has this has been a pretty good series. If you ask me, especially from a defensive standpoint, from what Indiana is trying to impose their will feeding off their crowd tonight, it looked amazing in there. And you know, they was able to come away with the victory. So OKC gotta get back to the drawing board, man. They gotta come out with much more energy and be able to sustain. Hey look, GP in the fourth quarter, I look with four, five minutes left.

Everybody for OKC was grabbing their shorts. Bent over grabbing their shorts. They were dead down tired. And that's what y'all don't want. They gonna pressure you all game and hopefully you die out toward the end. I thought toward the end it was a telltale because they start missing free throws I was 18 points. Excuse me, my bad 18 points. OKC scored 18 points not 15 in the fourth quarter

Yeah, go ahead JP. So this is just like a prize fighter If you get beat on for 12 and 15 rounds and keep knocking you're not what are you gonna do? You're gonna get knocked and then by the time it comes to the end of the end of the game, you're going to be dead tired. And you're going to fool around and get knocked out. You feel what I'm saying? And that's just the way game go. And that's what Indiana is doing. And Shannon, you said they're just we got to give credit, really,

to Carla because his game plan that's doing what he's doing. He's telling them to double. He's telling them to become behind and block shots. And then what he do? He started, he started solving. He said, now you take it. You get over three minutes, you pressuring, you dog him out for three minutes. Now you go get him for three more minutes.

Now you go get him for three more minutes. And what they're doing is, like a prize fighter, they're wearing you down. When we used to see fighters, man, if they jabbed you and jabs were jabs when kept you away, what did you do? They got frustrated. Busters start getting frustrated

because you getting that hit all toe up. Get this all beat down. What they're doing is they beating his body down and he's trying to force things now And it's not working. Yeah, they're gonna have to come to game plan where they're gonna have to kick the ball And other people are gonna have to produce Because they're not gonna let Jay play the game he's the MVP He's a superstar and he hurts you now what I do

I take that type of basketball player out of the game. And once they do that, they're gonna win games like this. And Oklahoma City is gonna have to get a game plan and come up with something different for game four. Hey, listen. I'm not letting you play one on one. Go ahead, Ocho.

Hey, say, G.P. and Joe, listen, I think this is the rest of the series. Shane is going to have to pick his spots. He's going to have to choose his spots and change his game a little bit. You know, maybe you can come out and be as assertive as you'd like to be. You know, you know, you're not going to get those fouls. So you got to pick and choose and spurts when to take those shots, when to drive, when to try to create those fouls, you know, when to get to your middie, when

to put the ball on the floor, when to kick it out. If they trap you the way they are trapping you, maybe you have to, your approach to the game in general has to be completely different and getting everybody else involved first. And then picking your shots and your chances and when to be assertive and hoping, you know, you guys can win on the defense end. You know, maybe you're just, you know, getting some easy bucks, easy buckets to get yourself in rhythm, you know, but outside of that, I really don't see the Pacers coming up off this lead, the way it is. We are, we already up and I told y'all before the series

started that the Pacers was probably going to win this series because the rest of the world had crowned the thunder, the NBA champions already. And this isn't just what I expected to happen. Oh, okay. Also what I think what Shea has to do is, is he has to get rid of the ball little sooner, but he's got to start moving. Right. What if the ball start cutting on him a little bit and get easier buckets?

Because what he wants to do is he wants to ice. So he wants you. He wants you one on one. If he gets you on a one, you're done. Yeah, they're joining him and they understand that. And I go again to Carlisle. He understands that this kid is very good one on one basketball player by yourself. So he doesn't want him to play by himself. A lot of coaches don't feel, don't understand that.

They let your players just play. And in this era, you have to let everybody play like that. Right. So he's not letting it happen. And he's it and look, he's getting rewarded with it. He's getting wins. And his players are getting a big, a lot of confidence. Yeah. And Oklahoma City has got to win game four or this is over.

I don't see them beating them three in a row. GP, you said something very interesting. You say he needs to get some easier baskets like cut without the basketball, but that's not his game. That's Steph Curry's game. There are not a whole lot of guards. There are not a whole lot of players because I'm not gonna do something

that I haven't been doing, and I'm gonna do it in the biggest game of the biggest games of my life. That's not what he does. See, what makes Steph so hard, Steph can handle the ball and he's also great. He's more dangerous when he does not have the ball. Because if you let your guard down for just a second,

a three ball is going up and it's probably gonna hurt you. See, that's not Shea. Like you said, Shea wants the ball. He wants to play one-on-one. He's gonna put that shoulder in your chest, create separation, and then get the shot off. Well, if you let him play one-on-one, you can't stop that because they're not gonna call him for a charge

because he was dislodging Nees Smith. He was dislodging them hard. So they're not gonna call that, but I'm gonna take the ball out of his hands. Now, if he starts moving without the ball, I'll adjust after that. But I'm not letting him play one-on-one against them with nobody.

Hey, hey, ZP, I'm curious to hear what you think. What do you think about the lineup change with Hongrich at the five? Because, you know, Hardenstein, like tonight, he was kind of non-existent, you know, if you ask me. So what do you think about the lineup change with them just going with one big? I know they probably don't want Hongrich playing against Pascal Siakam at the four, but I just feel like defensively, man, they gotta clog up the paint a little bit,

you know, be a little more tough down there and being able to rebound, get one shot, rebound, or even get second chance shots on the offensive end, because I feel like that's one area that's kinda hurting. Joe, you're absolutely right. Me, I wouldn't be switching. I'll keep it at the fore and get my big guy in there. But what I would do, Joe, I would punish Indiana on the other end

by trying to go into him and make it a physical gay and go in and out with him. That's why it's messing up because they can't match up with them like that and that hurt them and I don't go He's got a he's got a perform. I don't care that mediocre game He's got to be big every game and I don't think that is what he's doing. He's got to be big every game I want to switch my line up I would still been with him get rebounds getting things getting things over, being aggressive, and keeping that in. And then when they sub, I would sub with them. You know what I'm saying?

And that's just the way it got to go. And I think that the lineup change was not a good one. I would have stayed with my big man and punished him inside. Get rebounds and keep myself in the basketball game. And you're right, Joe. That was a big difference to me. I seen that and I said, that's not gonna work

because they don't match up with him very well. Hey, Indiana getting a lot of layups, guys, on the office of V.A. like. You know what I think happened, Joe? I think Dagg saw what Cleveland. Cleveland two bigs got blown out. The Knicks played two bigs. And so he's like, you know what,

I'm gonna make the adjustment because you see with Mobley and, and, and, and, um, what's the big Allen, uh, Jared Allen, two Bigs, they lose four one. Carl Anthony Townsend, Mitchell Robinson. So he's looking, he's thinking that like, hold on. None of my guys, first of all, Hardenstein is not an offensive weapon, right? So he's only gonna get floaters and possibly put back Hold on see I come held his own against cat. He held his own against every mobile. Mm-hmm Sure, they got they gonna play with his back to the basket. He's gonna play There they can't they can't go out. Yeah That's the difference. They can't guard them, they're too big for that.

This big guy, I'll just put him on Turner and then we'll equalize the team. Soon as Turner goes out the game, I'll do it. Even with two big men, you still have to attack them. The two, I don't think the Knicks big men are that good. Only Towns, that's the only way I think. And then Cleveland, Moley and Allen didn't have a good, only towns. That's the only way I think. And then Cleveland, Moley and Allen didn't have a good series, period.

And they started off hurt from the get, when they were already hurt. So that was just a little different. I think if Cleveland would have been a little healthier, they would have been cool and they would have did it. But with this right here, I think you don't change your style when you've been going with it all year.

You don't change your style. You stick with it and go ahead and knock people down. And I just think that they got to equalize it. When they sub, they sub. Joe, you know it. You sub people when they sub. You got to do that. And that's just the way it goes.

And I just think Oklahoma is just getting outplayed right now. Yeah. Absolutely. Y'all just gotta understand. They're just getting outplayed. We can't give them no excuse. They're just getting outplayed. That's it.

You know what, you know what, GP, Joe and Unc, not only are they getting outplayed, but Oklahoma's offense is making it easier for Indiana too with the turnovers. Absolutely. Turnovers, you know, that too. And also, I forgot when I said about OKC having those bigs out there on the court.

Obviously Shett, I mean, obviously Shett is really no threat defensively outside of length and height. And then Horton starts to- He's a rim protector. He's not an own ball defender. Their own ball defenders are the wing players and they got a plethora of those. And because Chad doesn't have enough bricks

in his back pocket, he's not gonna play with his back to the basket. See, Ockham is under no threat. So if he goes with Myles Turner, Myles Turner can play Chad Hongren. He can play him on the wing or he can play him down low because he's no threat. Only on the wing is he a threat.

And so Hardenstein is only looking to get loose balls. He's going to rebound. He's going to give you a second chance points, but he's not an officer. They're not even worried about him. So now what you do is that you become smaller. You don't give yourself second chance opportunities. You don't give yourself a rebounding. You don't give yourself a defensive prowess because look, you got enough defense.

If you got Lou Dort, you got Jalen Williams and Shay. Shay was one, two in steals. We know what Lou Dort is. He's an all defensive player. We know what Jalen Williams is. He's an all defensive player. You got plenty of defense. Why would you ever do that when you won 68 games

with that big lineup? Tell you, I would never, and Shani you're saying what I'm saying, I would have never changed my lineup. I'm not gonna make them change my lineup of what I've done all year. I won 68 games. Yeah. I don't care what nobody say with that lineup so you don't do it and then I don't And then I didn't want to say nothing about the light, the light ass, but you know what I'm saying? I didn't want to say nothing, but he too light. You know what I'm saying? It ain't gonna work that way, man.

So I'm just saying y'all, you don't change. You see what you've been doing. GP, Ocho and Joe, I can make an adjustment once I see what you're doing, but I'm not going to adjust before I even get to the damn game. Damn, I'm making adjustments when I don't need to. If I'm getting killed by their smaller lineups, because the problem is this is what Golden State got a lot of teams to do.

They, oh, I'm taking my bigs off the court. No, y'all need to keep your bigs on the court and punish them down low. Give somebody to play with their back to the basket and punish Draymond or punish Steph, punish Clay. But when you try to go small, this, and that's what they wanted you to do. They wanted you to take your big out and now Draymond's playing the five, you got Iggy, you got all those little guys running around. That's not how you play. And you play how you play, let them play how you play and then

make adjustments accordingly. Wait, wait, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Shannon. Oh, Joe. Yeah. And just said about Golden State.

Yeah. About you was trying to adjust. What did Minnesota do to him? Minnesota kept their digs in there. Yeah. Yes. Some on that small lineup and went at them. You see Randall, he averaged third.

You know what I'm saying? And then they picked the big boy that came from Oklahoma, Adams, and they were killing them. They couldn't get a rebound. You know what I'm saying? And it was bad. And then Oklahoma is doing the same thing right now. They're getting one and done and they ain't getting no rebounds.

They ain't doing anything. That's hurtful. I think, hey, look, when you look at the intangibles that Hardenstein brings, like, he says great picks, Arcocho and GP. He will lay wood on them guys. And roll to the basket to get dunk. But look, when he rolled to the basket, even if he ain't got that little floater,

he makes great decisions by spraying out for threes or hitting Hungress for a lob dunk or something. Like, man, I just feel like they at least need to even try to go back to it. And look, if it don't work in the first five to seven minutes, okay, we can sub. But like you say, we won 68 games off that. Why are we changing when we the best team the whole entire season? I never understood that. Hey, Joe, GP, I hear y'all, I hear you too, but I think they made that change in that lineup

simply because Hardenstein, they understand, listen, okay, getting a few boards or getting a few putbacks or getting a few alleys, coming off picks and rolls or whatnot, he's still a liability on defense. He's a liability and the way them goddamn paces transition when they do grab them boards off the court, they going up and down. And then it's like, it's got them four and goddamn five. And they understand that. He's not that much of a liability. He ain't that much liability.

Turner in the game too. All he got to do is run up. Get down the floor, man. I'm just telling you. He ain't that much liability. He got to get down the flow. Like we said, he done played all year like this. And Ojo, you got to understand, there's only seven games left, baby. There's only seven games left, baby. All you got to do is go in there and get busy. And y'all only got to win four.

You know what I'm saying? And that's it. You got to suck it up during this time, man. To me, suck it up. You got to be able to adjust to everything that's going to happen. And with this big dude, I agree with Joe. He brings too much to their table. He brings too much. He brings too much pigs. He brings enough, uh, getting, making people all two shots. He goes rolling to the basket. And if he's doing that, and not stopping it,

then who's going gonna make an adjustment? They are. They're gonna start making adjustments. You know what I'm saying? Don't just come in the game and say, oh man, I done looked at film for two or three days. Now I'm gonna change my lineup. Man, what?

I don't get it. It's one-one, Ocho. It was one to one, man. One to one, you not losing two-oh. You in a panic to me when you change your lineup. That's a panic. Just stay with what you got and see what happens. And I thought, you in the bench four,

he gonna go back to his lineup. Get it? No, he's not. No, he's not, GP, because he, me and Joe talked about this game one. He started that, cause I was looking at the lineup, I was like, why is Wallace, I say, where? He, he, game, he about this game one. He started that because I was looking at the lineup. I was like, why is Wallace? I say, well, he gave he started this game one. He took Hardenstein out of the starting lineup and put Wallace in.

I joined that. We talked about this. I was like, Joe, I just don't understand that I'm going to make an adjustment when I need to. If my car's running fine, I'm not fit to take it to the shop and say, Hey man, change the transmission. What? The car's going. Joe, Hey GP, I'm going along good.

I don't need to change the, it's not that it's, it's not grinding. I can back up. I can go forward. Why would I go to the mechanics and try to transmission when there's nothing wrong with a perfectly good car? You won 68 games. You got the MVP. You got one of the top defensive

teams in basketball with the big lineup and in the most important series of the OKC under Dagnot you make this change. Now look it can still work out but I look I would I'm gonna make an adjustment when I need to make an adjustment and I don't think they needed to make an adjustment. I agree man. Most points off the bench in an NBA finals game. Sam Cassell has the to make an adjustment and I don't think they needed to make an adjustment. I agree man. Most points off the bench in an NBA finals game. Sam Cassell has the record in 1995 in game two he had 31. Downtown Freddie Brown the Supersonics now the OKC Thunder in 1978 game one he had 30. Benedict Matherin Paces 2025 three, he had 27. Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks, 2011, game six, 27. And Manu Janobli, 2007, game four, 27.

So Benedict Matheran had won a game, it's his playoff career high, and he picked a great time to have it. And he looked good too, man. He looked damn good. Don't jump on the bandwagon now Joe. Don't do that. Chaddick. Chaddick. We ain't gonna be talking like this on Friday if OKC come back and win. You know what I'm saying? So OKC, we can sit here and talk all that. It's still 2-1 going into game 4.

OKC has just to understand that you get a win, it's suited. Get a win and go back to OKC, tied 2-2. You got the home court advantage back again to yourself. You know what I'm saying? And that's what it is. But you gotta, y'all guys gotta understand. We gotta give Indiana all this credit. They did a great job of winning game three.

That's what they're supposed to do, they're at home. Now what OKC has to do is just come back. You guys got to understand. Two times in his playoffs, OKC has done this. They have done this. They have lost game one, came back in one, game two and lost game three. You know what I'm saying? And they've been in this situation before. Now you've got to come in the game four and just say, hey, let's just win this game, shut everybody up, go back home and we'll see what happens. That's not what you gotta do.

If they went and listen to it. All they wanna do is go back to OKC, tied. And I got game five and game seven on my home court. It's not gonna happen. I didn't tell you. I bet you that Friday that they beat them. They gonna beat them. Hold on, you wanna bet something?

Put something. I bet it, bet it. Hey, make him. They gonna, Oklahoma's gonna beat him. Hold on, you wanna bet something? Put something. I bet it, bet it. Hey, make it lighten yourself. Make it light on yourself. Hey, anything goes with me. Okay, bet on him. Bet on him.

I bet you, honey. Huh? Jesus. I bet he can't hear. Yeah, yeah. Nice internet, nice internet. I had to put it. This feels good.

Nah, my wifi is just lagging a little bit. All right. Yeah. You sure? I'm sure. If you want to, we can go three. No, no, no, no, no. I got child support.

I got child support doing two weeks. So we go two. You got adult support too. I want my 5,900. I got you. I got you, baby. I got you. So listen, as soon as GP pay me Friday, and as soon as Joe give me my hundred,

that's a hundred. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Keep me out of this, okay? No, no, no. Keep me out of this. I'll see you in my cash shop. I'll just let it sit there for a little while and get a little entrance.

I got you. I got you. Okay. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you.

I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you.

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I'm trained to be like harder. But sometimes that mentality stops you from stopping and smelling the flowers in your own garden. Is it wrong to want more? We migrated. Our family migrated here. I'm like second generation. Who's not going to have a trauma coming from a foreign country and coming to the United

States and not speaking English? Listen to You vs. You as part of Michael Tudda Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Lou Williams had high praise for SGA today saying, we're looking at Kobe Bryant being created. Too soon for the Kobe comparison. GP, you played with Kobe at his absolute apex. Are we, is this a good comparison? Too soon? Nowhere near Kobe, man. It's gonna be one Kobe. That's it. I don't care what y'all say. It's only one Kobe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just like y'all telling me to say Joe buckets over there ain't nobody like Joe Joe can get buckets. You know what I'm saying?

Don't y'all compare people to people especially somebody like like Kobe Bryant. Let's shake. Shake Yeah, I don't think he Kobe yet, you know, I'm saying I don't think he ever will be Kobe He's a great basketball player, but you guys slow down. It ain't gonna be it ain't gonna be no Kobe no more. Kobe was a different guy. It was a different beast. You know what I'm saying? So don't don't compare him to that.

And before y'all people to be even put people's name on other people. Yeah, for me, for me. I can see GP Joe Ocho I can see the comparisons when people say it style of play Jordan and Kobe Because the style of play is very very similar. Yeah, when I look at Shay, I don't see I don't see anything It reminds me of Kobe, honestly I'm saying the same thing. That's not it's not I'm being that's not a knock That's not a knock on shape because I think he's phenomenal. I think we all in, Shane. That's not, I'm being nice. And that's not a knock on shade, because I think he's phenomenal. I think we all in agreeance, he's phenomenal.

He earned the MVP this season. But when I watch his game and I watch Kobe from day one when he air balled against Utah in the playoffs, so I've watched him his entire career. I don't see Kobe, I don't think, oh, but that's Kobe, I don't see that. I mean, Kobe was a different beast, Shannon. I'm just telling y'all.

It's a different beast. And then we could compare Jordan and Kobe because Kobe tried to be like Jordan. Yes. So it's a little bit different, man. And I hate people that even try to compare anybody else's game to somebody. You putting that man name on greatness. You know what I'm saying so y'all stop that it's no

comparison there I don't think that yeah I did like somebody saying they play like you and football right now you know what I'm saying? That's like doing dump stuff, man. So just slow down. People slow down on that. I think most of the time when it comes to people, even some of the elite players, some of those with great knowledge of basketball,

we become prisoners of the moment. They become prisoners of the moment. We do. Seeing something that looks or depicts what we're used to seeing in greatness as Kobe is. The styles and the smoothness, the butter-like style of play is somewhat similar. Being able to get to your shot, get to your mid-e,

and when he rides up, he look like Kobe a little bit. But SGA has his own style. SGA has his own style. And even putting that pressure on SGA, even though he's one MVP, and even though he has a toolbox putting that person even comparing him to Kobe you shouldn't do that because Kobe is he's an iconic figure in his own right and the way he has approached the game is completely completely completely

different and he's in a class of his own where the comparison shouldn't even be as great as the SGA. It's like when people try to say, it's like when people say, uh, man, uh, LeBron ain't Jordan. No, LeBron game is like magic. Absolutely. That's the comparison that you should make. Cause both of those guys were past first. Now LeBron is a better score than Magic. Could rebound the ball better than Magic.

But the way they control the ball game, both were pass first. Now, if you need me to go give you 30, I think LeBron is a better score. He could score the basketball better than Magic. Magic taught him, and both guys taught themselves how to shoot. magic had that little push That little one-handed push GPU

But it was effective magic big guy six nine composed magic was looking a you better have somebody Hey, you better have your boots on and be ready to play cuz if you were small magic was gonna post your ass Shannon he he knew how to do the hook shot Baby hook that everything see he was a little different and the way what we should say about LeBron and magic They're both all-around basketball What we should say about LeBron and Magic, they're both all around basketball great. They're complete basketball players. They do everything. You see what I'm saying?

So that's what people compare to people and all that stuff, man. Now that would be a great comparison. Yes, both of them too are complete basketball players. They're all around. And then you gotta look at Magic with six, nine and about two something. And then you got LeBron 6 8 and to something so you gotta do you gotta understand they are the comparison with you do now if you

say LeBron look like magic I'll be like yeah yeah I can see that that's real true but when you say Shay look like Kobe. Wait, who made that comparison? Lou Will. OK, OK. Hey, hey, hey, to kind of answer your question that you asked early, when the last time we seen a team like this win a championship, it will probably be that Pistons team. I think GP played against that Pistons team. I know they had like three.

Yeah, you had to mention that thing. Are you all on that joke? Hey, look, they had about three, four All-Stars that year. But I don't know Superdolls. They had four. Four. Yeah. Yeah. So but you know, they I don't think not. I don't think more than one person stood out. They all they was by committee and they they attacked their Lakers team, man. Like like no other. Joe, they didn't have All-Star. And they attacked their Lakers team, man, like no other.

Joe, they didn't have All-Star. They had Ben Wallace, they had Rashid, they had Prince, they had Campbell, and Ripp, and Chauncey. So that was their, they had all five basketball players. Wasn't a story. They all had five basketball players, and they played together. And then they had guys coming off the bench

That was kind of nice too. You feel and so you're right Comparison to what Gina won a championship and that was an old fork is us. They have a super star neither, you know All good basketball players a GP I think when when mailman got hurt, I think that really hurt y'all Shannon I said to everybody and everybody say we were 18 and 2 when call him along got hurt But he went down it blew us all up because we didn't have that we didn't have the structure of everything And we're applying we're trying to play a triangle and I was just trying to get custom to the triangle And then you got to understand we had a lot of problems within ourselves we're trying to play a triangle. And I was just trying to get custom to the triangle. And then you gotta understand,

we had a lot of problems within ourselves. You know, Coach going through what he was going through, Shaq was with a few more, Dr. Buss, and we were wearing another thing. And Carl kept us together. Because you remember when Carl got hurt, and we were four, 18 and two, and we were all was average of 17,

and I was average of 18. So we're all like 18, 17 and two, and we were always average of 17, and I was averaging 18. So we're all like 18, 17, 17, 17, and it was flowing. And you're right, Carl Malone took it away from us, and it blew us up. It blew us up when that happened. KD was online yesterday and had time to go back and forth with someone on X. It all started when he responded

to a tweet saying, I think it's time to admit Kevin Durant's trajectory after leading Golden State is very underwhelming. KD responded, I highly disagree. Want to debate? Another guy, the same guy said, no disrespect. You're one of the best, most skilled players in NBA history, but ever since leaving Golden State, you haven't done much and you're going to be on your 13th Then if you get traded if you think you stayed in Golden State, you would have won more championships All-stars 50 40 90 all-mba official bucket brother I also got a career high since one year hit 30,000 points won a couple of gold medals an MVP And what a career I'm still going. I love life. I haven't done much

It's just your opinion not based on facts Once again, your statement is talking about me as an individual, right? Because you can't talk about my teams without talking about everybody else as well So without them being involved in the conolute, it comes down to just me. I've laid it out, what I've done. If you wanna talk about basketball as a team sport, those are two separate things. This is what we, Kevin, I agree with what Kevin says,

but if we look at it, that's not how they judge LeBron. That's not how they've ever, GP, they don't judge great like that. They like either you won, because the winners get the credit and when they lose, they get the blame. That's just the way it is. Right. When you're a great player, Shannon, you're always going to take the blame. Always.

I don't care what nobody say. When you're a focal point of everything that you lose, you're gonna get the blank. It's just that you gotta take it the way it is. You gotta take the good for the bad. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna take it when it's good, so when it's bad, take it.

You know what I'm saying? And KD is my guy. That's my little youngster. So he's gonna go back at you. KD, leave it alone, man. You know how great you is. Just come back. What you gotta do, man. It is what it is. You know, once you come to a team and I

think Katie has not been on a good basketball team since he left Golden State. I'm just going to tell you, I don't believe that he hasn't been on a good basketball team. He had another great next to him that can make shots and do everything. You remember, Draymond was fresh. He was young. You had another great next to him that can make shots and do everything. You remember Dre Ma was was was fresh. He was young. You had a young clay. You have a equal dollar. You had a lot of good basketball players on the Internet. You know, you can even get around and Livingston and Livingston.

Well, I forgot about the guy. He changed the game around. You know, it's deep. You know what I'm saying? And long. But he's got to understand, if he goes to a good basketball team, if he get traded from Phoenix, then he can do it. Because I don't think nobody can still stop him.

He can score the basketball too well. He still averaged 26 this year. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? It's just that you were just on a bad basketball team. And what happens is if he gets traded to somebody good, he can show that skill again of what he is. And he hasn't lost a step.

I don't care what you say. You don't have to lose a step up in this area, in this NBA, because all you gotta do is be able to score and he can still score the basketball. Joe, before you go, the problem that he's gonna run into is that when he went to Golden State, he was a free agent. So they didn't have to give up anything. If you trade for him,

you're gonna lose some of your depth. That's what happened with Phoenix. Oh yeah, they got him. But look at what they had to give up to get it. Okay, and now you bring in Bradley Beal. You had to give up more depth and the analogy I like to use GP is like when Carmelo went from Denver to New York You know what you had to give up so much to get him. So when he got there, he damn near by himself

Yeah, when KD goes you got storing but you got no depth. Look at the team that are in the NBA finals What do they have depth? teams that are NBA finals, what do they have? Depth. They don't have a player that's, I mean, you might say, Shay might be the closest thing to equivalent to him. But what do they have? Look at their benches.

Look at, anytime a book or KD and they leave the court, the benches was awful. So when you can go somewhere as a free agent and they don't have to give up any compensation for you now. But look, Kevin, KD, he's not going to win this argument. I don't care what and everything that he said is true. He's the, he's our, he's our greatest Olympian basketball player. No, no doubt about it, but he was never, and I use the analogy, new addition, he was never gonna be accepted like the OG members,

Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike. He was never, because you know what? He was Johnny Gill. Johnny Gill could have sang them all, but he didn't grow up in Roxbury. So when you look at it, it's like, it's rare that you have somebody that comes onto a group that wasn't a part of the original group and people remember it. So that's what KD was.

KD is great. He's historically great. And we might not ever see a guy his size that could handle Dirk was his height. But Dirk shot that one legged Dirk wasn't putting the ball on the floor, getting to the rim like KD. He wasn't putting ball on the floor and getting to the middie like KD. And Shannon, I gotta I gotta correct you on that. The greatest Olympian is Carmelo.

Oh, you put Carmelo? Okay. Cause he done scored all the points in the thing. He did everything in a lot of Olympics. Then he got all the records. And he's doing it off the bench. Yeah, he got all the records. So if you were to say,

doing all the accomplishments in the Olympics as one player, that's Carmelo Aston. Okay. Joe, what's your take, Joe? Man, listen, as far as KD moving around, going to a new team, I want to see him go somewhere, man, where he don't have to do much dirty work, fellas. I want to see him go somewhere where he can just, you know, kind of thrive offensively. Yeah, defensively, he going to make a difference.

But if you put him on any team that's pretty good, and GP, you know this, he gonna take him over the top, man. He's gonna take him to that next level, where they trying to, whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Houston, whether it's Detroit, wherever it may be, I just wanna see him get somewhere to where he can catapult a team to the next level, man. Joe, what team would you think that would be?

I mean, it just depends on what you gotta give up to get him. I wanna see those. I like Houston. I love it. But you can go a three team deal and give away two of them little players from Houston. Keep your core, a little bit of core, and then you'll still be good.

Yeah, cause you're gonna probably have to, the thing is you're probably gonna have to give up Shungood and Jalen Green. Jalen Green, I don't care about that Jalen Green and Shungood, but you got all the other younger players around you. Because I'm not giving up on Min Thompson. I'm not giving up Thompson, I'm not.

I did not, and you know where he from, Shay. You know where he from, he from the biggly, biggly old, right? And old town. That's sad to me. I can't see, I can't see Houston giving up Shangoon. You don't think so? That's their low. Now maybe, now I don't know if the money add up

if you give up Jabari Smith Jr., but I don't see them giving up Shangoon, man. I don't see that. I wouldn't give them up neither, Shannon. I would give up green and probably. How do we make the money right? But you gotta go a three team trade. That's what I'm saying.

You gotta bring a third team in to bring him to moving there. Because the third team can give up some draft picks. You're gonna have to at least give up three first round draft picks. You're gonna have to. And then- I don't know if you're gonna have to give up

that much in your GP, because I think you're gonna look at hiss. You're gonna have to. And then- I don't know if you're gonna have to give up that much in your GP, because I think you're gonna look at his age, he's gonna be 37, plus his injury history. But Dan Shannon, you still gotta think about it. The other teams gotta get something too. They are. Third team has to get at least one first round. Cause think about it, cause here's another thing guys,

we gotta take into consideration Ocho. Yeah. Luca Donchgers at 25 Went for Anthony Davis and another at a first-round pick at 25 well, but but Shannon You went for Anthony Davis and Davis is pretty goddamn good Watches out, you know, he's 30 He's 32 with injury history, and I'm giving you a guy that just took a team to the NBA finals at 25.

And look what he done did when he came back to the Lakers and didn't do it too much. He, hey, hey, hey, we gon' get it right. One basketball ain't gon' work. We gon' get it right. He gon' be, hey, as a matter of fact, he traded with LeBron right now, GP. I know you a big L.A. fan.

No, no, I'm a LeBron fan. No, no, no, I'm a LeBron fan. You're a LeBron fan? I'm with you. I'm a fan of his, too. So when he leave, I'm going somewhere. I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going somewhere. Oh, you like to travel with all stars.

Hey. I get it. I get it. Hey, at first, at first, Kobe was my guy. I was a Kobe fan. Burns, one of my best friends, he was a LeBron fan. Now he knew about Kevin Durant because Kevin Durant from that area, Prince George County.

So that DMV area. He said, I'll tell you what I do. He said, I'll let you have LeBron if you give me Kevin Durant. He said, as a matter of fact, I give you Kobe and LeBron. I said, hold on, you gonna give me Kobe and LeBron. And all you want is Kevin Durant because I was supposed to get the next guy to come out to make you a tool. Kevin Durant theoretically was supposed to be

my player. I said, okay, done. So I got I said, I got Kobe and LeBron. Ah, bro, you hot. So he's been... So he got KD and I got Kobe and LeBron. But it's just, I don't, I mean, I'm just trying to figure out where can he go where they don't have to give, they don't have to give up their depth because you look at these two teams, what got them to where they are was their depth.

Yeah. I think he goes back to Golden State. You, I don't think, no, he ain't going back there. Cause he P. Hey, you don't want to go back there because it was the way, way it ended. But he goes back there. I guarantee you there'll be, there'll, there'll, there'll be a contender for the championship. Oh, well, first of all, here's the thing though.

You giving up commingle, you giving up Moody, you giving up all those guys. You giving up, you're gonna give up, I think two of them. You're open to truth. You give up, but, but, Chad, they're not playing anyway. It doesn't matter. You're gonna give up Kaminga anyway. He's gonna lead, he's gonna lead now. They're gonna sign a trade anyway.

So, you're giving up Moody, you don't even play him anyway. You don't play him. So you're going to be the same way. You're going to have Butler, Curry, Draymond, and then Draymond. That's your four. And I don't care how old these dudes is. They still was in the playoffs and making noise this year being that way. The only reason they lost to Minnesota is because Curry got hurt. I understand if you keep them other little cords around you to play their roles, they will be a good basketball team for him to go back to.

And he can go. And I guarantee you, they'll still be in the playoffs and they'll make a run for a championship with him. That's all they needed. They just needed him. And then you play Butler become the third option. Come on, man. They, they, they going to be pretty good.

Cause that's what they get when they, when they want a champ, they want to do a championship. They had him, Clay, and Curly. Right. And Dreymind doing everything. Hey, GP, man, thanks for joining us, man. We know you got a busy schedule, man. Thanks for jumping on with us tonight,

breaking the game down. Hey, when you get a few, hey, maybe come back and break it down with us. If we get a game seven, come back and finish it up with us. You know, man, all y'all got to do is ask me, man. You know what I'm saying? Y'all, man, y'all know, y'all fast, fast. All right, appreciate that, GP.

We will see. All right, man. Yo, I'll see you this week. All right, O.G. All right, good show. Yes, sir. The Volume. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of Free Seaventures

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