Club Shay Shay - Nightcap WrestleMania Takeover ft. The Undertaker LIVE from WWE World

Episode Date: April 18, 2026

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson are LIVE from WWE World in Las Vegas for WrestleMania 42 featuring The Undertaker. Undertaker breaks down his WWE legacy, AAA booking, favorite matches in history, and much more! (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the Serving Pancakes podcast, conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today, we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends? Since the day we met. As the League 1 volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind-the-scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport. Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game,

serving pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Open your free IHeartRadio app, search Serving Pancakes and listen now. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green. Co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How much you wait, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race.

No, I want to leave here with my original hip. On the podcast The Matchup with Alia, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ, Coraes, and comedian Wanda Sykes, to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard, the art of trash talk, and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free IHeart Radio app.

Search the matchup with Alia and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. Score! I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Bowker.

On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions, and the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise. if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Miles Turner.

And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think on and off the court. Nothing's off limits. We talk tanking. I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's like definitely happening.

happening in the WBA. We talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man. You can't be rolling around the city like this tonight before games. Check out Game Recognized game with Stu and Miles on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. WWE World, please welcome to the stage, the hosts of Nightcap, three-time Super Bowl champ, and NFL Hall of Famer, Shannon Sharp, and Bengals, Chad Ocho. How y'all doing, y'all?

That's what's up, man. This is unbelievable. This is my first time being here, Ocho. And as a wrestling fan, my entire life, if somebody would have told me this was what wrestling was going to become, I wouldn't have believed it. No, this is dope. The atmosphere has been awesome. The fans have been awesome.

Being able to meet some of the rasters. Oh, that's the best part about this. And hearing their journey and how they got here to what most were considered a finished product on why we're all fans of them has been really dope to experience. It's unbelievable. It's an unbelievable experience. I mean, they do an unbelievable job of promoter. World champion of the WF&E, 27 mania appearances. He's 25 and 2. He has 21 straight WrestleMania victories. Here he is Undertaker, but we know him as Taker. What's up, man? Taker. You within your, hold on.

25 and 2. So you've been to 27 of these things. 21 straight victories. From the very first one till now, what is the biggest difference that you think in WrestleMania when you started as opposed to what it is now? Man, just the spectacle. I mean, look out here. Look at all these people. It's unbelievable, man. It's electric. This, when I started at WrestleMania 7, this did not, this did not happen.

This access, the ability to come and meet superstars, take pictures. It was at a much more limited scale. Just this part alone is just, it blows me away. Every year when I come and do an autograph signing or picture signing, it's incredible. Seems like it's getting bigger and bigger. And I think the thing is that I love most about what WWE has done is that it allowed the fans to have access. It gives you an opportunity to show your personality just outside of the ring.

an opportunity to meet you guys because I don't know how much meet and greet you guys had when you first started this. Not very many. You know, we we got here and just kind of focused on, well, most guys focused on their match. The match. Early on, you know, I, I focused on a lot of things. They didn't necessarily have the fans involved, but, but as we, again, as we grew, man, and this became, this is almost as important as WrestleMania. Yes. You know, I mean, this is an incredible opportunity for people to get really close to, you know, the people that they support. Help me understand this.

You come, you create a character, you and the WBE create a character. How did they help you develop that character? How did you embrace that character that? Okay, I'm the undertaker. This is what I need because when you think an undertaker, you think of all black. You think of a mortician and you think of something cold and sinister. How did they help you to develop that character and how did you embrace it so well? I think it varies between talent to talent.

Okay. For me, I was presented a look in the name. Okay. So this is what we think is, you know, they needed somebody big with zero personality. And there I walked through the door. But for me, once I was given the initial image and then told me, you know, okay, this is going to be based off of an old Western undertaker. And then the lights just kind of kind of started going off from me.

So there isn't a real set pattern. Like some, like for me, I took the ball and started running with it and figuring this thing out. You know, some guys come in and they're like, I don't know. So they need a little bit more help and direction. And, you know, you have other guys that are already been here that kind of, it's amazing the amount of input that you get from other wrestlers. Right. That, you know, they're driving up and down the roads back then and say,

I'll give you an example. You know, I heard there was a time there where I carried people after I beat them, I put them in body bags, right? Right. And everybody thinks, that's just some sinister shit, right? And of all people to give me that idea was the nicest guy in the world, which was Ricky Steamboat. The dragon. Yeah.

He came up and he says, he goes, hey, you ever thought about this? And I was like, that's genius. So, you know, some guys, they need help in that development. And then other guys just take that ball and, you know, they just kind of go down that rabbit hole and figure out, okay, how am I going to make this my own? And that's the key to being successful. You can have the greatest idea, the greatest look. But if you don't make it your own, these people are here, they're not going to buy it. Right.

And they're not going to invest in it. So, you know, that's the key. Yeah. When you look at the state of wrestling, as great as it is now, as a product in general, internationally, globally, has your perspective change from a business aspect now that you're on the creative side? Yeah, but you always want to have your thumb on what it is that's reaching your audience. You know, and that becomes, it becomes difficult. Like when you do get behind the scenes, you have to remember that you're not necessarily, you know,

you're not necessarily creating for yourself anymore. Right. So you're creating for the masses, so you have to not only be able to take. okay well this is what I like okay well that might be great but that's only going to affect like 20% of these people right you have to be able to get your

fingers out there and make it a net and get that get everybody what everybody wants to enjoy so it's a pretty difficult process to do through your six foot under podcast that platform how has that allowed you to engage with your fan base

on a different level than say you know you going you know doing something like this because they get an opportunity to see you in a totally different light than what they've ever seen you before. Yeah, it's, it's taken me a while to embrace that because I was for so long, you know, I protected my character, right? There was nothing, there was Undertaker and there was nothing else. That's all that anybody ever got to see. Right. And I think that contributed to the success of it. Correct. But I think with the, with the podcast and getting out there and hearing.

some of the stories that I've, you know, that I've, that I've had with some of the guys. And truth be told, I don't like talking about wrestling. You like talking about, so what are you, fishing, hunting? What do you like? No, all that's good. Okay. But as far as, like, with the podcast, like, the best podcast episodes are when I got with my boys and we're talking about what we did after wrestling. After.

Right. Like, that's what everybody wants to. Right. You can go on YouTube and watch all the wrestling matches you want. Right. But what happened with me and the Godfather in a bar down the street? Right. You know, that's kind of what I think kind of peaks these people's, you know, their interest now.

They get plenty of wrestling. They want the juice. As a older wrestler that doesn't do it anymore, you adopted that you're helping and bringing along this generation of wrestlers. Ocho and I, we played football. And a lot of times we try to give back. We try to mentor the younger guys and try to tell them what to expect. how to go about their business, be professional, be yourself, but be professional.

Just remember one thing, the football team is a team. It's not always going to be about you. What is it for the best interest of the football team, and how can we all win, not just you? Is that some things that you try to share with these younger generation? Yeah, absolutely, because as a talent, if you're fortunate enough to get on that wheel and then have that run, right? Yes. And when I say run, something that's going on with like Roman Raines right now.

He's on an incredible run. Yes. Cody Rhodes. All these guys are on a run. But it's not necessarily always going to be like that. We always use it as an analogy, the wheel, right? So you're here. That wheel's moving, right?

So there's a good chance, not necessarily all the time, but there's a good chance that it's going to end up down here. Right. And you have to be able to, one, you have to figure out, okay, what do I need to do to get back up there? and two, while I'm on my way, how can I help the product? How can I help the product? Because if the product gets better, that's going to give everybody more opportunities.

So you just, you got a, you got to roll with it. You can never be content in this business. As soon as you're content, you're done. Yeah. Because there's always somebody coming along that's younger, faster, stronger, and more hungry. But as, as veterans, you have to, you say, all right. It's my time now. I'm going to embrace it, but knowing that it might be someone else's time later, let me help them.

Absolutely. And then when my time come back again, I'll be ready to. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the hard part is when that climb up, man. That climb up is awesome. Yeah. You feel it, right? You know it.

And then you get there. Yeah. And for you guys. Like, you get that ring, right? You're trying to stay there as long as you possibly can take her. Absolutely. You scratch and claw. And you hang on to it.

So, yeah, it's important for the veterans to help those guys. You know what? Being a veteran, helping some of the young fighters now that are up and coming, giving them the knowledge on what it takes to be great, what it takes to be consistent, having that structure, having that discipline. Everyone here is a fan of wrestling. Everyone here has a Pacific raster that they like and enjoy watching today. So for you, in today's rassing landscape,

who is your favorite raster to watch? Oh, man. I tell you, because he's such an old school guy. I probably won't be received real well. But I love Gunther. Okay. I do. I absolutely. There's no flash. There's no flash. What you get is somebody going to get here and he's going to stomp your guts out. He's going to chop you up. He's going to beat you up. Yeah.

And, you know, he ain't flying around doing a bunch of silly stuff. He's in there. and you, I mean, he's just a serious character and he's a throwback. Yeah. He's a throwback to a different generation. Okay. And it just lets you know that, you know, old, what is old can be new again. Yeah. Is there anybody that in today's wrestling reminds you of Taker?

No. No. No. No. No. Not really. I mean, you know, there was, you know, there was, Bray Wyatt, was coming along before he, you know, before his unfortunate, you know, demise of it.

But it, you know, he, he had that, that aura, that kind of, um, otherworldly type character. And, um, I, you know, it's obviously, it's a shame what happened with, with brave, because I, I think he'd only begin to scratch the surface of how great. Right. He was going to be. You've taken the behind the scenes role, if I'm not mistaken. with AAA, which is, if I'm not mistaken, WWE purchased it.

Right. So what is your role entails with AAA? So I don't talk about it a whole lot, but I'm down there in a creative role. Okay. Got an incredible team down there, and we are trying, you know, Lucha Libre is a wrestling style all to itself. Yes.

And going back to my last comment about old school and like, like, like Gunther, it's kind of crazy that somebody like me is doing creative for a Lucha Libre product, right? Because those guys are incredible. I mean, they will fly and do things like you just like, how in the world do they do that? But, you know, we're just what we're trying to do down there and be involved. is to tell better stories, yes, be a little more physical, and be true to Lucha Libre.

And that's, that's, and give them some, a better production value. Um, they've been doing things for a long time down there. Right. In a very simplistic way.

So now we have that W.W.E production machine that we're implementing. Um, you know, we, I couldn't be more happy with the success that we've had so far. Again, we're just, I tell people this all the time. What we're trying to do there is I'm trying to take a step back, like a little bit of a step back in wrestling to take a step forward.

And a little bit of old school, mixed with a new school. Hopefully we're going to have a very unique and interesting product that not only people in Mexico want to see, but all over the world. It's interesting to me because when I grew up, I didn't know anything about storylines. I just thought two guys getting the ring and beat hell out of each other. But there are storylines. How long is a storyline? Is it just for that match or two matches or they're trying to build something for, say, a month, two months, three months?

How does this work? It's up to them. Oh, okay. You can have this brilliant idea in your mind and like, oh, man, I want to see, I want to see wrestler A fight wrestler B and you think this is going to be the greatest thing ever Right

And then you kind of start looking at Well man like I would love to get this match All the way to WrestleMania But then you you put it out there And sometimes it ain't as good It's just like a play call Right? You think it's going to work

At practice it works Right? Yes, yes But it's the same thing like I'm Luke Wilson Join me each week for film Never Lies Since retiring from the NFL I've had a lot of my mind, and now I've got my own show. So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week.

Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeart Radio app. On the Serving Pancakes podcast, conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends for? Since the day we met. As the League One volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. We really are like yin and yang, vodka and tequila. You'll hear unfiltered analysis.

behind-the-scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport. Today we have Logan Ledneckie. I feel like our fan base in general is very connected. Just like a comforting feeling getting to play at home. Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game, serving pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Jordan Thompson had that microphone out. God forbid we make mistakes or cuss at our coach.

Like when time or two times. Open your free Iheart Radio. Search serving pancakes and listen now. This has been serving pancakes and we'll catch you on the flip side. Okay. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars and now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end,

a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game. and I fell in love. On our new podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan.

I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up? I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think, on and off the board. Nothing's off limits. We talk trade requests. What's the vibe of that when it's like you're,

star players like, well, I want to leave. And then actually now I'm going to stick. We talk tanking. I mean, honestly, like, I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's, like, definitely happening in the WBA. And yeah, we talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man.

You can't be rolling around the city like this tonight before games, no, you know, doing this, doing whatever. And of course, family stories. They'll be like, Mommy, why did you miss that? Do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized game with Stuy and Miles on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming.

Ramos sending on the orange. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Polic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what has.

happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. USA! USA! Listen, inside American soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever. you get your podcast.

But again, if your audience doesn't resonate or they don't get with it, then, you know, it's, I call it pissing up a rope. You ain't going to get nothing but your hands wet. You know what? I'm glad you said that. And obviously, it's all about the fans. Obviously, knowing and understanding what they want, always being two steps ahead, especially when it comes to creativity and storyline.

When it comes to those that wrestle, it comes to those that have creative control on what the storylines are going to be. Do you pay attention to what the fans say and what they want? Well, you, you, you, there's, there's a lot, there's, there's a lot that goes into that. Yeah. Because obviously, they're not in the know of, of what the big, the big picture is. Right, right. And sometimes people get impatient and don't want to, they don't want to wait, right? And, and, and that's part of the storytelling aspect. But you have to be able to, have these beats in the story that keep them like, oh, okay, I want to captivate it. I want to see, like, every, you know, back in the day and, you know, in the, in the, in the Monday night ward, like, everybody was like, we would go off with a cliffhanger and everybody,

like, and we didn't have so, we didn't have as much, uh, cover, you know, you couldn't just go to YouTube or whatever, right, right. You had to wait. You had to wait until the next Monday night to see what was going to happen. So, you know, so, yeah, so, so, so, so, so, so, it's. your question. I mean, you have to have, you have to have good creative, and it has to, it has to resonate to a certain extent with your audience. And you have to listen, but you can't let it dictate either. Right. I think that's kind of a problem. If it solely dictates on that,

then you, you get, you lose focus of what it is you're trying to do. AJ Steyer revealed recently that you gave him the gloves in your final match, the Boneyard match during the pandemic. How did that come about? Because I guess in wrestling, like when you're done with it, you leave your boots in the center of the ring. And so you knew this was it for your taker. Yeah, there was no coming back from the Boneyard, win-lose-and-dra. That was definitely it. For me, I got everything out of the sponge that I could possibly get.

Right. I rung it up. So, you know, I always, my WrestleMania opponents, I've just always, you know, when the street came into play and then, just my part as WrestleMania. I always wanted to leave my opponents with something that they were going to remember that with. So at the conclusion of the Boneyard,

people say I'm crazy for it, but I took my, I gave the gloves that I wore in that match to AJ Stiles. And he has him. He has, AJ has the last pair of gloves that I ever

used. So Yeah, and it means the world to him. And it was cool. And he gave me his. So I have his gloves that he fought in, and he's got mine. And it's kind of a cool deal. I can look up on the shelf and like, you know what? We tore it up that night.

So you knew going into that match, 20 plus, two decades plus, you know, yeah, this is it for me. The ride stops here. Whether they wanted to stop or not, I'm getting off this ride. Were your body beat up? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. My body was beat up 10 years prior. Yeah, no, actually, at that night in the Boneyard, like, I was looking for one particular

match that I could hang my hat on and walk away. Like, I could put my six shooters up and go home and stay. And it just happened. You know, that match was filmed all, it was, it started at about 8 o'clock at night. and we finished that match at sometime at like five in the morning. Wow. And it was at about three in the morning when I was standing there, and I was like, I had a moment.

And I was like, I'm done. Right. Like there is no, this is it. And it was a moment of clarity. And it wasn't any sorrow. There wasn't any, like, man, I wish I got to do this. It was as clear as day. I knew that I'd got everything.

the desire was still there. Right. But I knew my body could not. It just couldn't deliver. And I didn't want to live on equity that I'd built through the next, you know, the last I love 30 years. You know, this is a very gracious audience. But there's at a point, you've got to decide like my legacy becomes involved in this.

And I was already skirting that. You know, I was. They deserve the best taker. Absolutely. I would hate, it always, it always would kill me to know, like a father. And I had a lot of them today in my, in my, in my, in my signing today or my photos with their, with their kids.

And they had watched me as a kid and they hype me up like to their kids. Like, man, we're going to see The Undertaker. He is so awesome, right? Right. And then you get there and you're like, oh, oh, man. He ain't quite what I remember. Right? But so just, just the thought of that, it bothered me.

And I just did, I didn't want to, I didn't want to end up in that. I didn't want to be a caricature of my former self. So I knew it was time. And, you know, I got back. I got no regrets and I got no, no regrets, no worries. And it was a moment of clarity. And I got to leave with the match that I wanted. Have you found something else to fill that void?

Think about as long as you've been wrestling. That's something that we love. That's, you get up. up you're forced to want to work. It gives you inspiration. It gives you motivation. Like Uncle and I, football was all we had. That was my identity. It's all I knew. So every single day, that's what I wanted to do. And I loved it. What has feel that void now that you stop rassing that you can't wait to get up for and you're excited for once again? I don't know that I have like just one thing. When you're focused, like when you're to play in the NFL,

well, you have to, you have to, people just don't understand the amount that goes into that. Like they say, oh, man, you know, there's Ocho Sinko on the sideline with his Hall of Fame jacket on, you know, cutting up. Yeah. You don't just do that by, by chance. You have to be great. Yes. To be able to do those things.

But what people don't see are you in June, in July, which, you know, were your boys going and working out in the heat and all the, effort and the work that goes into all that. So, you know, it is. It does become your identity. And everything that you do is revolved around not only being on a team, but

starting, being great, winning Super Bowls, and it's the same thing. My whole identity was involved, was just being the undertaker. And I don't know that I, you know, hindsight being 22, I didn't, I don't know that I built an exit strategy. I thought I was going to do it forever.

Yes. Like, you know you're not, but just in your head, you don't think about it. I said, I'll do this forever, and then forever got here one day. So it took me a minute to like, okay, well, now what? Right. You know, and I love, like, I mean, I love hunting and fishing and doing all that, but, you know, you guys do a great job. Like, podcasting, I don't know that it's it.

Like, I have my moments. It's a lot of work. It is a lot of work. It's a lot of work and, you know, I don't know that I'll ever I don't know that I'll ever have that thing that gets me going.

The podcast for wrestling. You said something very interesting that, you know, people see us play the game or play basketball, play baseball. Everybody sees the destination. Nobody saw the journey. Yeah. So that's the hard part.

The destination is, okay, yeah, I'm here. How did he or she get there? That's the very interesting part. I heard you say on the podcast is that you, and maybe I'm paraphrasing, maybe I misheard you, but you said, man, I wish we wouldn't tell all the secrets of how the sausage is made. Yeah, I'm guilty of it too. I believe, you know, everything is open, everything's talked about openly now, and again, I'm as guilty as anybody about it.

But I think as a whole, for the sake of the, for the business, there needs to be a look, there needs to be a stopping point. A little secrecy. I think, I don't think you like, I don't know. I just, I could be wrong there. And, you know, in my day, obviously, I came in the generation where you don't talk about the business outside of, you just don't do it. People in the business.

Yeah, exactly. So obviously, you know, we're not, I, I just think they don't, that our audience, even though they think they might want to know, I think that there was a certain amount of secret. being able to have that, I think it would be, I think the product would be more fun. Yes. Right? Because if you already know what's going to happen or if this is going to have, then it's like, okay, I'm just going to wait for that part to happen.

Right. Like that was a great thing about Monday nights, again, in the attitude era, you had no clue what was going to happen. And you just, again, you had to wait. I think there's just a, there needs to be a little bit more protection of the business. and I only use that word because, I mean, that's just the words we've always used. Who revealed that secret?

Because for the longest time, my grandfather would put you out if you told him wrestling was fake. He'd put you out of the house. You could not tell him it was. And I thought it was real, too, for the longest time. Who was the first person to appeal the layer back as like, X, Y, and Z?

Well, I don't know that there was just one person. Okay. You know, there was the time period where Vince went and he had to, We were having to fight athletic commissions. Right. And pay an exorbitant amount of money to these athletic commissions for what, right? Right.

So, I mean, I think, like, everybody knows what wrestling is, but I don't think you want it thrown in your face, right? Yeah. And it's okay. Everybody's, oh, wrestling is fake. Wrestling is not fake. It is a form of sports entertainment, and it's a specific form of sports entertainment.

What we do is genuinely real for what it is that we do. You all, well, if I'm breaking bones, tearing my ACL and Achilles, that's real. Yes. I got 20 surgeries that say it's as damn as real as it needs to be. I remember the first, I don't know if you remember this take it in Ocho. You remember what, I think it was, Fox had a series where they had this guy that was revealing all the magic tricks. And so you remember that? And it was kind of like, and we knew, come on.

But I'm just like, I don't even want to know. I just, after the first, I'm like, I don't want to watch anymore because I still want to have the illusion that he's doing something that nobody else can do. That is the perfect analogy. And it's the same thing with wrestling. I just, I think it's just

better. I don't want to go to, I don't want to know how the trick's done. I just don't. I want to be entertained. I want to think about how it's done. Right? I just, it just to me it suspends everyone sense of reality and that's a, that's a brilliant analogy.

It's really good. Is there a lot of father-sons? Because we see in basketball, father-sons, we see football, father-sons, baseball, father-sons. Are there a lot of father-sons in wrestling? Yes, there is. I just know Cody. I just know Cody in Dustin. Yeah, no, there's plenty.

And unfortunately, I've wrestled dads and now I've wrestled their sons. I've been around. I was, yeah, but, yo, there's, man, there's tons. And there's more coming. Coming, okay. Right? I'm sure that Seth and Becky's kids will probably wrestle. You got all the damn Samoans.

You know they're going to wrestle. I do so. They're coming. I have a daughter that's ate up with it. Wow. Yeah. I think, yes, nepotism in the wrestling world is going to be. You got Rick and Charlotte.

Yeah, man, it's just, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it's a, there's a long lineage of second generation, third generation, Randy Orton, third generation. Yeah. Cody Rose, I think he said, Don Mysterio, he thinks he's going to be the next generational talent. He says his work ethic is unmatched. And we were talking to a lot.

We're talking to Naya and Lash. And even Charlotte said, you know, there are a lot of people, just because you have the talent, you know, you're athletic, you can spin, you can jump and do all these things. That doesn't necessarily equate to you being a great wrestling. No, absolutely not. No, there's a lot of great athletes that try this and just scratch their head and are befuddled.

Like, I'm a world-class athlete. Why can I not do this fake thing? There's so much to this. Yes, you do have to be athletic. Yes. Two, you have to have a different kind of mental toughness. And two, you have to be able, once again, you have to be able to connect. and just being a great athlete doesn't do it.

That's not enough. I mean, in football, basketball, there's a lot of guys that are just incredible. But for whatever reason, that team situation, it doesn't work out. Right. You know, and it same goes with wrestling. There's a, you have to have that thing that connects.

There's a lot of guys that come along and, you know, we kind of call them Ham and Eggers. They're middle-of-the-road guys. It's because they can't spark that extra interest. And that's what makes wrestling so difficult is to have people interested in what it is that you do. I mean, the funny thing when I think about it, just being a rastering fan over the years,

it's an art. It's an art in itself. And everybody paints that picture differently. And when it comes to all the attributes and all the variables that makes a great raster, everybody doesn't have it. Sometimes there's an it factor. Like when it comes to football, you can look at somebody just based off looking at them and say, you know what, he had the it factor.

He passes the eye test. But when it comes to playing a position of tight-in or whether it's receiver, when it's time to get out there and the lights are on, they don't show up. It's different. It's a different ballgame. It is the same in the wrestling world. Yeah, it's just some people have it and some don't, man. And it's crazy. Like, you know, we were talking earlier about mentoring and all that different thing.

And what's so crazy for a young wrestler? Like, they'll come up to you and like, hey, take, you know, I got this match with so-and-so. Will you watch my match and, you know, give me some feedback? And I'm like, yeah, absolutely. And then you'll also see him going, like, I think Sean Michaels is somewhere here, right? So now he's got Undertaker watch. He's got Sean Michaels watching. Maybe he's got Triple H.

watching. Now we're all three going to watch that match and we're all three going to give you different advice. And it's all right. Right. It's all different. You, because you have to figure out what works for you, right? And what worked for me may not work for you. It ain't working for Sean Michael. Yeah, exactly. And that is what makes it's so difficult to be a top guy for WWE because it's just, it's just you got to have something that's different. and that resonates again with your audience. But when you look at it, the promo is very important. You look at a guy like a Rick Flair.

You look at a guy like a Dusty Rose. You look at a rock. You look at a stone cold. They can hold this microphone, look into that camera, and convince millions and millions of people to tune in and watch me kick somebody butt. Right.

You, you're like, hey, I'm not supposed to have a personality. I'm a night. I'm an old-school Western undertaker. I just come in. I just, hey, this is the body that I delivered to you. Hey, that's it. That's all I had. How is it that some guys just have that God-given ability?

Ocho and now we were best for the God-given ability to just be able to talk. Some people can work at it and get good at it. I think Muhammad Ali rested, so he just had that God-given ability. That was just born in him. How do guys get, if you're not as gifted as some, how do you get better at it? Do you have to practice like you do football or basketball? Do you have to practice and practice until you get good at it? Reps, reps, man.

I mean, how many routes have you got, you got somebody, how many routes have you run? And how many times if you figure out how to make that route better. It's the same thing. It's standing in front of a mirror, standing in front of a mirror. Well, let me tell you something, brother. Yeah. You know, yeah.

Somebody might be doing that. Let me, you know. It's, yeah, I mean, it just, it's just time and time again until you figure out to one that you're so comfortable you know, like, somebody, I would have somebody come into the room and just throw something random out. And then this is way even before Undertaker. It's like, just come give me a random topic and then try to riff on it and make it like, oh, yeah, that's normal. Like, I can't even come up with really an example, but just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks, getting to a point where if you do get stuck,

how to just be your way through it. And, you know, again, that's the hardest part. If I was, that's probably for me, like the biggest key. If I can give you a mic and you can go out there and you can captivate your audience, I can teach you to wrestle. I can teach you well enough. There's been great guys that drew a lot of money that could barely tie their. I'm Luke Wilson.

Join me each week for Film Never Lod. LES. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind, and now I've got my own show. So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeart Radio app. On the Serving Pancakes podcast, conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends for? Since the day we met.

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You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars and now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's hard. break, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. American Soccer is about to explode.

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run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. USA! Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. What's up? I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart.

And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think, on and off the court. Nothing's off limits. We talk trade requests. What's the vibe of that when it's like your star players like, well, I want to leave? And actually, now I'm going to stick. We talk tanking.

I mean, honestly, like, I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's, like, definitely happening in the WBA. And yeah, we talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man. You can't be rolling around the city like this tonight before games, no, you know, doing this, doing whatever. And of course, family stories.

They'll be like, Mommy, why did you miss that? Mommy, do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized game with Stuy and Miles on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Shus and not trip. You're right. But you put a microphone on their hand? Yes. Oh, my God.

Like, I want to see that guy fight. I want to see what he's going to do to that other guy. Is that all a part of it also? So when you go to NXT or they come see you guys, is that all a part of it? It's just not ring work. Obviously, you have to get in front of the camera and do other things and things. things of that nature. So is that a part of the schooling process that you have to go through and not just ring and how to come up a rope or jive off a turnbuckle or something like that?

Yeah, the actual in-ring stuff is probably the easiest part. Oh, okay. I mean, obviously, there's guys that are so gifted that can do incredible moves and all that. But to me watching somebody who's going to be great, the wrestling part of it is, that's simple. having this and being able to, again, keep them in the palm of your hand, that is the gift. Right. That, I mean, there's been a million guys. Like, I'll tell you, Rock, for instance, when Rock debuted in Madison Square Garden,

I looked at, you know, he's a, you know, he's a second, third generation as well. Yep. And I remember him coming out and he had that ridiculous thing around him and he was going to be right. And I think it was, I think it was Godfather. oh, this guy, who he ain't going to make it, man. And I missed, I missed on that one. But somewhere in that time period, he got a hold of the mic.

And then he separated himself like, wow. Yeah. This guy is really talented. But you have to, yeah, I mean, if you can do it with the mic and you can make people, you got to make people who love you or you got to make them hate you. There ain't no in between. And it doesn't matter. Right.

I could care less. You can love me, you hate me. But you have to have a feeling. Right. If you don't feel, you're wasting your time. How do they determine whether you're going to be good or the heel? Or do you determine that? How does that happen?

And then how does it flip? Yeah. A lot of times it's kind of trial and error. Okay. You know, some people like, oh, this guy looks, you know, he looks like this or he looks like that. And you kind of got, you get kind of stereotyped into a role. Right. And then, you know, it's trial and error.

Like, okay, maybe he's not a, you know, maybe he isn't a, maybe he isn't a bad guy. So let's see what his tendencies are. And everybody usually has some type of tendency you pick up on really, really quick. Like, you know, he doesn't like losing. He doesn't like doing that. He's a baby face. He's a good guy. Okay.

And this guy, he'll, you know, he'll put his thumb in your eyeball. Like, yeah, this guy, he's a little more edgy. So again, and again, I remember back in the day when the honky talk man came in. Yeah. And they built honky talk man up like he was, you know, he was going to be the biggest good guy that ever came down the pipe. And the audience absolutely just destroyed him. Right. They could, they, they, they booed him so badly.

And he turned into an incredible. incredible heel intercontinental champion. Right. So again, a lot of it, it relies on your audience. Right. And that was not the plan. Right. The plan was not for the honky talk man to be, you know.

He's supposed to be the good guy. Yeah, he's going to be a good guy. And so you just have to, sometimes you can't fight it. You just got to go with it and make the most of it. Signature move. How do you get a signature move? I mean, do you have to have a signature move? I mean, some people have to figure four.

and some people had the sleeper hole or the full Nelson, Van Ranski had to claw. How do you develop a signature move or do they say, okay, this is going to be your signature move? Well, a lot of guys that come in and they've already kind of got a move set and things that they've been doing. Okay, okay. One, you're hopefully you're fortunate enough to be in a situation where you have to have a finishing move, right? You come in and they don't care or will you're going to be in trouble. Yeah, so then you want to, you got to have something that kind of resonates with your, with your character, right?

Like, obviously mine being the tombstone. Right. You know, in my head, I envisioned, well, this old, this old undertaker was picking up the tombstone and he was, you know, he was planted at the grave. Right. So it made sense. Right. But, yeah, it's just, one, you got to do something different, you know, and think about all the

wrestlers doing all these different. You have to have something that is different and catches people like, oh, man, you know, it has that wow factor to it. Right. Of all the, of all the WrestleMania, if I said, okay, Taker, give me your Mount Rushmore WrestleMania's, the matches. Who would you say is your four, the four best WrestleMania out of here we are, what, 42 now, your four best, if you could, if you could recall? Twice. And I'm definitely not one to. So,

WrestleMania 25, Undertaker for Sean Michaels. Okay. If, if I was going to show a young kid that's coming up in the business, what our business is supposed to be about, it's that match.

That's the one. It encapsulates, athleticism, story, character, years of feuding. I think it encapsulated all of those things into one match. Another one. What?

What? You know, Hogan and Andre. You know, I mean, that was so significant. That was the passing. Because Andre, really, that was the, he started, I remember Andre and Georgia Championship Wrestling. I remember seeing him in Savannah Civic Center and I saw him in Vidalya, Georgia.

Back then, a lot of times, you guys were, I don't know if you were way back then, Taker, but they was wrestling in high school gym. Yeah. Right. They was wrestling in really, really small venues, maybe 100 people, maybe 200 people would be it, if that many. And so he was like the old and here come Hogan.

Hogan. Right. And like I said, wrestling used to be very, very regional. You had Georgia Championship wrestling. You had Florida. You had Mid-Atlantic. You had the North Atlantic. You had the Midwest. And so now here was the combination and McMahon and what they were able to do now to the WWF, WWE now,

is that all this was merging together and Andre the giant was, excuse me, Hogan was going to be the guy to move it forward. Yes. And that was the significance of their WrestleMania match. It was Andre moving aside. He goes, you know,

Andre was the first global superstar of a wrestler. He went, he went from territory to territory. Like he would be in this territory for a couple days and he would go, I mean, he was a global attraction. Yes. And just

incredible. And then again, so Vince is taken over and he's gone to cable television and, you know, Hogan was his guy. So a lot of people don't realize the significance of that match

just for the sake of the industry. And Andre did. So that's why Andre did business. Because if Andre didn't want to, he didn't have to. You know what? Hogan was, and Vince was saying, I think it was a documentary or something. And they were saying Andre could barely walk.

At that point in time, his body had betrayed him. He's so big. He's 500 pounds. He's seven foot tall. And now all of a sudden his body had started to betray him. They brought him out like a scaffolding. And they drove him down to the ring. And the guys didn't get in the ring and they're going through it.

And all of a sudden, he tells Hogan, slam. Yeah. Which means, okay, body slamming. Okay, not a leg. And Hogan's like, already? Okay, this is what he asked for. Boom, boom, and the match is over. Yep.

I didn't realize, like, and I was asking to Lash and Naya yesterday, it's like, sometimes you forget the sequence. And, you know, you guys in there talking and you have a referee that has the producer. Not back then, but yes. You did. So basically, you had to. memorize, it's kind of like an Easter speech. You had to memorize an Easter speech taker.

Well, sort of. So back in the day, when wrestling was kind of at its purest art form, yes. Everything was more ad-libbed. Okay, right? Okay. It was kind of on the spot kind of a deal. Okay.

TV came along and you had to hit breaks and live TV. So the product kind of changed then, but yeah, there wasn't, there wasn't anything really to remember back then. It was like whatever Andre wanted to do. And that was what Hogan was going to do, whatever Andre told him. And Andre knew that, like, you know, they were selling quality, not quantity. And when at times, you know, that's a problem that you have to be able to, you have to know when to go sometimes. Right.

When to go home. Right. You can go out there like, well, I got six more moves that I haven't done yet. You know. Right. You don't need to get the whole, you know, the whole hit record in there. You just got to get the key points. Take a, look, when I was a kid, wrestling came on once a week.

It came on Saturday nights. It came on really, really late. What's so hard for me to fathom is that it comes on. You're able to see it three nights a week, and the fans are still craving it. Just like we did when it only came on once a week, and now you get an opportunity to see and you see Raw and you see Smackdown, and you get these manias, and it's just, it's still the same. Yeah, it's crazy because the amount of content that's out there.

Yes. It's incredible. I've always, and have for many years, like, man, are we overexposing ourselves? But that comes from decisions farther up to pay grade, yeah, farther up to pay grade than what I'm doing. But you have to, again, If you're not, you know, the crowds are full, if you're not putting it out there and they want it. They want it. They want good.

They want good wrestling. Now that I think about it, too, being a wrestling fan for so long, watching it over the years, Unk, myself, you being on the creative side, I want you to think about this. Now you have creative control. Uncle and I, tag team partners. Who are we wrestling? Like right now. And we really want to make this, we want to make this coming to fruition. Uncle and I want to wrestle.

Okay. One match. Don't want to wrestle. No. One math. We want to live, we want to relive our childhood dream. I want to be Bobby DeBrain Heenan. I want to be Paul Heyman.

I want to be somebody like that. You want to talk. You don't want to take no bumps. I want to talk. You want to talk, no bumps. Tag team. Who are you putting up against? Modern day?

Right now. That's what I'm saying. Tag teams are out there now. Hmm. Let me think. Let's see. You got definitely baby faces, right? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, we'd be good guys. We'd be good guys, right? No, we got to be the heels. See, we already got dissension. Y'all ain't wrestled one match and y'all already going at it. I think we're going to book one-on-one, loser leave. I like that. I like that.

I want a Texas bull, a Texas bull road match. No, you don't. Those are fun. That bull rope's real, believe me. But there used to be a lot of matches, you know, Texas death match and you had a steel cage match and you had, you know, wrap the hands up and all kind of, you guys have kind of gotten away. Are they still steel cage matches? So occasionally they'll do a steel cage. I think we have war games.

I guess it's kind of considered. you know, a cage match. But then you have, you've got hell in a cell. Okay. And then you have, what's the other one in February? Chamber, yeah. Chamber. Punchy.

The bumps are real. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we have those themed matches. Yes. And occasionally something will happen through the course of a, of a storyline where, you know, you'll lock them up. And it's kind of, it's a different vibe.

these days, but, you know, that used to be, that used to be the, uh, be all to end all was going to steal cage. Yeah. Yeah. You knew you're going to get blood and you was going to be a, you know, nobody could bleed like Rick Flair. Nobody could bleed like, Dusty. Dusty. Busty Flair. Yeah, hey, yeah, those are, those are probably two of the best bleeders. Wildfire Tommy Rich. Yeah. He was a good bleeder. The fabulous free birds. Do you, if I'm not mistaken, I think Ray Mysterio might be the only one that still wears a mask. You know, back then, they used to have a lot of guys, Mr. Wrestling number one and two, the Super Destroyers. There are a lot of guys that had masks on.

You guys don't have guys with masks very much other than Mysterio, right? Well, we've got Dragon Lee. Oh. Yeah. We got, hey, if you want mass guys, come down to AAA. We got lots of mass guys. Lebrey. Lucha Libre, brother.

Yes, yes. But yeah, you know, the thing with wearing a mask, and a lot of people don't really think about this, is you can't see their face, right? Right. That might have been the most silly thing that I've said. But when you watch something, when you watch wrestling, you kind of key in on the face.

Yes. The face tells the whole story. Yes. The face tell you whether you're happy, whether you're sad, whether you're pissed off, whether you're hurt, Whether you're happy to see the other guy hurt. So you lose a lot of storytelling ability when you wear a mask. Okay.

And that's a lot of people, you know, people don't think about that. I used to love when they try to take the mask off in the ring. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's big business down south of AAA, man. We got, hey, we got a, we got a huge mask coming up, a huge mask match coming up. Mask versus mask. Right.

The El Grande's, you guys been, yep. Thank you guys. so much, Harry is the Undertaker. On the Serving Pancakes podcast, conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends? This is the day we met. As the League

one volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind the scene stories, and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport. Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game, Serving Pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future

of volleyball. Open your free eye-heart Radio app, search serving pancakes, and listen now. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green. Co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How much you wait, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hip. On the podcast, the matchup with Alia, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.

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presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey! And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the

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