Club Shay Shay - Ozzie Newsome

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

On episode 19 of Club Shay Shay, Shannon welcomes in his former boss: former GM of the Baltimore Ravens and fellow member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Ozzie Newsome.This episode is packed with memories and stories from Shannon’s time in Baltimore, touching on Ozzie’s decision to sign Shannon, the Ravens’ 2000 Super Bowl run, players like Ray Lewis, and late owner Art Modell. Ozzie also reveals his thought process going into the NFL Draft each year, his honest and upfront nature in dealing with player contracts, Lamar Jackson’s strengths, hiring John Harbaugh, and the importance of bringing on veterans like Calais Campbell, Dez Bryant (and in 2000, Shannon) to elevate the team.  As a two-time All-SEC & College Hall of Fame player at the University of Alabama, a three-time Pro Bowler & Pro Hall of Fame inductee with the Browns and an NFL executive since 1991, Ozzie Newsome has decades of football knowledge and expertise. He and Shannon break it all down, from the late 1970s to the present day.#DoSomethinB4TwoSomethin & Follow Club Shay Shay:                                                                 https://www.instagram.com/clubshayshayhttps://twitter.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.facebook.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.youtube.com/c/clubshayshay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Join me, Jamie Erdahl, alongside Peter Schrager, Kyle Brandt, and Akbar Bajabiamila for a daily breakdown of the league's biggest stories. Hey, you want to know the secret ingredient that makes Patrick Mahomes unstoppable? Or maybe which reality show best describes the Jets season? Look no further. We've got recaps, retweets, and reactions to all the wild moments you might have missed both on and off the field. Make sure to listen to the Good Morning Football podcast Monday through Friday on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Che Che. I am your host, Shannon Sharp,

also the proprietor of Club Che Che. And the guy that's coming by to have a drink and conversation today is my former boss. He's also a three-time Pro Bowler, two-time first-team All-Pro. He's an all-decades 1980s tight end, two-time Super Bowl champ as an executive, National High School Football Hall of Fame, College Football Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Brown's Ring of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Brown's Ring of Honor, the Wizard of Oz, my former boss, grinding all my life. Sacrifice.

Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got to roll the dice. That's why. All my life. I've been grinding all my life. Oz, how you doing today, bro? I'm doing good, Shannon. It's always a great opportunity for me and you to have a little chit-chat to go back and forth. You know what? And I tell people, I say, Oz and I have a very chit chat to go back and forth. You know what? And I tell people, I say, Oz and I have a very, yeah, he was my boss, but we're kind of like, he's like my older, older brother

because we're always joking and carrying on with one another. So it is, Oz, it's always good to catch up with you. How have you been? Go ahead. I was going to ask you, how have you been? I've been good. You know, like I'm here in the office, as you can tell, and just finished with practice

and was just finished watching some college tape a little bit, you know, because pretty soon the draft will be here. So I'm staying busy, enjoying what I'm doing. And if you could guarantee me a victory on Sunday, I'd be a real happy man. Hold on. You retired. I thought you was going to be less busy. You was going to get a chance to do more golfing, enjoy life. It seems like, yeah, you got a better job, but you're working just as hard. It's cold outside. I can't go play golf, you know. When the weather's like this, I'm better off in the office.

So are you enjoying the new role? You transitioned. You're the executive vice president. So do you enjoy the new role now? Yes, I am. I really am. You know, Eric was with me. I think he was the second person that we hired

when we moved over from Cleveland. So we got 23 years together. Steve did a great job with the transition. You know, had it set up five years in advance. So we kind of knew what was going to happen. And it's been going really good. Enjoy my relationship with John Harbaugh, Dick Cass. And Steve has just been unbelievable.

And, you know, I'm still around the players all of the time. That keeps you young. So are you watching more tape than you did before? I mean, so what's the ratio now as opposed to watching practice, watching film on college guys, free agents? I'm doing more now because I don't have to do, I don't have people walking in my office every five minutes with, you know, some issues that they probably

could handle themselves. But, you know, they always want the boss to handle it. Right. So I have more time to watch tape. And I enjoy going out to practices and I watch the practice tape. So I'm doing a lot more. All of the things that I wanted to do

and I couldn't do because I had all those other things to do, I'm able to do it now. When I look at the 2020 Ravens, obviously 2019 was an unbelievable season for you guys. You had a great record, Lamar Jackson, the United States MVP. It didn't kind of end the way you wanted to.

So when you go back and look at 2019 coming into 2020, what were some of the things that you wanted to do to make sure 2020 ended better than 2019? Well, you know, I think we matured as a team in 2019. And that maturity did not end with the way we wanted to by getting beat in the first round. But I think we learned from that. You know, you can learn from losing just like you can learn from winning.

Correct. And so I think we did that. You know, Eric and I and our group, we did a good job of putting together a good roster. It was different this year because we had the 16 practice squad players so we could build bigger depth for our football team because you're going to need some depth as you go through it.

And, you know, in the second year with Lamar and how Greg Roman and John have embraced Lamar and putting him in a role that he can be who he is. And our players understand that. So we're better defensively.ly you know we're still good in the secondary you know we're starting to get some pressure and you know with me you know getting calais and derrick wolf you know up front where we can stop the run when we have to stop the run when i look at you guys and i look at what you've done, you've always been a guy that's looking to get that

veteran free agent that comes from somewhere that's won before, that's a great locker room guy. And when he makes sure things don't get to the head coach, they don't have to go upstairs, they can handle it within the locker room. And I believe that's the guy, Calais Campbell, that you mentioned. What has he meant to your team? Well, you know, we had that with you and Rob Woodson. You know, we had it with Tony Saragusa. We've always had that veteran player, as you just discussed, described, that can come in and they understand our culture.

And our culture is, you know, we are going to allow you to be who you are, show up on time, practice hard, and play well on Sunday. Then all the rest of the stuff takes care of itself. But to have someone that come in like Calais, who was thirsty to win, you know, and he was being able to bring his leadership ability to match it with our ability to find ways to win games, it's been a great match. Like it was with you.

Appreciate that. But you signed... Going to what were you thinking when you signed Devs? Devs hadn't played in a very long time. He was coming off a very serious injury, Achilles injury. And you know, at a skilled position, especially the wide receiver, the Achilles

injury is probably, is normally the death blow. It used to be the ACL, but modern medicine has made the ACL guys come back stronger, faster, better from ACL. But the Achilles, not so much. What was your thinking when you signed Dez Bryant? Well, you know, it was a relationship that Eric had with his agent. We brought Dez in seven or eight weeks before we signed him. And he came in and he worked out and, you know, he needed to get in football shape. Right. And we told him, you know, take the opportunity to go get yourself

in football shape and we'll bring you back in for another workout. That's what Eric promised Daz. And he came back in and he was in football shape, you know. And what he does, he provides a bigger target when we get down into the red area. You know, we got Marquis and we got Duvernay and we got Willie Sneed. But now we have a more bigger physical receiver down in the red area that can make some contested catches. Because, you know, things are tight when you get down in the red area.

But a guy can go up and make a contested catch. You tried to sign Dan a few years ago, and that didn't work out. Why did you think it not work out then had he not gotten over being released? Because a lot of times, you and I have talked about this in the past, when guys have been in a situation for an extremely long period of time, it's tough when a team releases you. It's almost like a relationship. You're like the shock of I'm no longer a cowboy.

I'm no longer a patriot. I'm no longer this. Do you think that has something to do with it? No question. No question it did. You know, I think he was in shock by getting released. You know, he needed to take some time for this. And, you know, to jump right in this situation that we were off of him,

he just wasn't comfortable with, you know, and he took a whole year off, a year and a half off. And then, obviously, he signed with the Saints. But, you know, those things happen, you know, but I think a relationship was built with Dez during that time. A trust factor was built with him. And so when it came time for him to try to come back to play football, then he picked up the phone and called Eric?

I'm looking at you. The last you, you, you've been great at this and we'll talk about this. Your last draft, the last player you selected in the first round was Lamar Jackson. What did you see Ozzie in him that would make you trade back into the first round of selecting because he's anything but prototypical? Why were you so convinced we need this guy and we'll build the fortress around him? We're going to play to his strength,

not bring him in and make him play to ours. Well, you know, you have to give the owner, Steve Bishotti, you know, that was a draft that had five quarterbacks, I think, going to first round start with Baker at the beginning. And Steve, you know, knew it was time for us to start to look toward moving away from Joe. And he felt like that class was a good enough class to do it. And what we did with the first pick, we were able to get a tight end, as you know, in Hayden Hurst.

So that was going to help us in the immediate. You know, Joe likes to throw the tight ends. So that was going to help us in the immediate. You know, you know, we, Joe likes to throw the tight ends. So that was going to help us in the immediate. But then we saw an opportunity. Eric had did his homework and he knew Philly was thinking about moving out. They wasn't very happy with who they saw on the board at that point. And we had some additional resources with some extra picks. So we made the phone call.

They were willing to do it. And we got Lamar in, you know, just saying, hey, you're a quarterback. You can come here and play quarterback. But I think you have to give all the credit to John Harbaugh, to Greg Roman, and those guys because in that second year, they said, hey, we are going to do what Lamar did. We're not going to turn him into Joe Montana or Dan Marino. We're going to allow Lamar to be who Lamar is.

And you know what? He's a tremendous talent. He's an unbelievable person. And, you know, we, when you get in our business, Shannon, as you know, you play to a player's strength. Correct. You know, and that's what we did with Lamar. And you know what?

It changed the game a little bit. And I think there are going to be more quarterbacks that are going to be coming out that's going to be like Lamar. And I think he's now the trendsetter. Ozzie, you know, so many people make the mistakes. You have a system. And you're like, well well this is my system this is what i this is what i run offensively this is what i run defensively but you know the really good

coaches they find a way and says okay this is what you do well i'm gonna let you do that if this is what you do well i'm gonna let you do that and for you for you guys to take lamar says okay you're a quarterback and for greg roman to build a system around this young man's strength not a whole lot of people were willing to do that because that's what you had to do. If you make him a prototypical quarterback, I don't know if he can succeed at being. Yeah, but Shannon, you and I both know if they would have had us blocking five techniques and nine techniques and not throwing us some balls. I see how you're shaking your head. It wasn't going to work out.

It wasn't going to work out. I got, like I said, all that credit goes to, to, to Greg and John having the willingness to say, Hey, we are going to do this. And you know what? And it, it enhanced Lamar and Lamar even had more buy-in because you know people weren't trying to change him you mentioned John Harbaugh and you was on staff when you hired John what was it about John because special teams coaches don't normally get hired they're normally former head coaches offensive coordinators defensive coordinators you don't normally hire a special teams coach to be a head coach.

And that's what John Harbaugh's background was in. And you guys, you and Steve Bichotti, you're like, this is our guy. Well, you know, the special teams coach, you know, they deal with that 52nd and 53rd player the whole time. Yes. You know, they're trying to figure out every week who are the best guys that they can get to be able to go out and perform. So they understand the mechanics of the roster.

Right. You know, and that's huge when you're dealing with a new head coach. He understands that, you know, we need to keep that eighth offensive lineman or ninth offensive lineman. We can't have that great special teams player we want. So he understood that. But the other thing that John did that last year before we got him, he went and coached the secondary.

So we had someone that was coming in the building that, number one, was probably the best special teams coach of his time, but had also spent time on defense. So this is a guy that can walk into two rooms and be able to fix some things. And then of course, his dad was a long time coach, his brother was. So it was football, his sister married a basketball coach, this coach in college. So it was all about football sports coaching and

it's been an unbelievable hire. And he's an unbelievable person with him, his wife Ingrid and their daughter Allison. You talk about that, Avi. You talk about the relationship because you know, you and I early in my career, I was on special teams. Ain't nobody really trying to play special teams. Everybody's trying to be the start on offense.

Everybody's trying to be the start on defense. And for him to be able to take all those personalities, he's like, guys, I understand that you want to be in a different room, playing offense, catching touchdowns, running the ball, or getting the sacks or getting interceptions. But this is a third of what we do. And to get guys to buy in, I think that's the biggest thing for a head coach is to have communication and to convince the guys to believe in what he's saying no question about that and you can't teach that you know you you have that and the thing that you know because i even remember you were a pretty good special team if you're a good special teams

player then you're probably going to be a good position player on either offense or defense because you realize you know this is my time i'm on special teams when I'm young and I'm going to be good at that. Then that helps you to be good at that. But yeah, but having John, having all of those understandings and dealing with the different personalities, because, you know, you got, you know, first round defensive back be like,

no, I don't want to play on those special teams. But you have to be able to get them to play on special teams because it is one third of the game. Oz, you look at, you started this, you the first started this in 1996. And there are very few people that can say, I've drafted a Hall of Famer. You're claimed to fame. You've already, you've drafted three Hall of Famers. Suggs is probably going to be the fourth. And if Lamar continue on the path, this will be five. What's your thought process when you go into the draft looking for a player?

Is it tape? Is it game? Is it feel? Is it talking to the guy? What is it that made you in 1996 as Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis? Because when you guys moved from Cleveland to Baltimore, the popular pick, everybody wanted Lawrence Phillips. You wanted somebody that could sell tickets.

But you like an offensive lineman. An offensive lineman don't sell tickets. Yeah, but, you know, we spent a lot of time building our board. You know, it starts – it actually starts a month after the draft where, you know, scouts have to do grades on the upcoming seniors. So you have nine months worth of work. draft where, you know, scouts have to do grades on his upcoming seniors. Okay. So you have nine months worth of work. And when we were in that draft and, you know,

it was no doubt that the number one player was Jonathan Ogden. And, you know, Kevin Hardy, we liked him. He goes, Simeon Rice goes, you know, and we're sitting there. And, yeah, Mr. Modell wanted us to take, you know, Lawrence Phillips. But if you're going to start something, which we're sitting there and yeah, Mr. Modell wanted us to take, you know, Lawrence Fuller's, but if you're going to start something, which we were starting, I mean, you have people believe in what you're doing. And if you're going to rate someone to be the highest rated player, you can't pass them.

Even though we had Tony Jones, who you played with. I played with him. We could not pass, you know, and that set the board. And of course, as we get to rate, you know, then we were lucky enough to have that second pick in the first round. And he was the highest rated guy at that time. So that set the tone is, hey, do all your work,

you know, get your board set and stay true to the board. You, when I look at, I mean, obviously, and these guys are transcendent. Arguably, you make the case that Ray Lewis is the greatest middle linebacker to ever play the game, one of the greatest defensive players. Ed Reed, in my estimation, is the greatest free safety, strong free, whatever you want to rate it. He's the greatest free safety I've ever played against

and ever taken off on tape. What is it? What is it that convinces you, okay, Jonathan Ogden should be the number one player. If I were the number one pick, hey, we take Jonathan Ogden. But what is it about a guy? What is it that you see? Shannon, the guy's a football player. We playing football.

Right. At the end of the day, you got your measurables. You got all your psychological testing. You got all your interviews. But at the end of the day, is the guy a football player? Can he play football? Priest Holmes. Priest Holmes was a football player.

Yeah. Marsha Yonder was a football player. Jermaine Lewis was a football player. So, you know, at the end of the day, you have to get a guy that's a football player and forget about some of the other metrics that we use. Is he a football player? And if he's a football player, he's going to play for you.

I forgot Yandy is going to end up in the Hall of Fame too because all those Pro Bowls and first team All-Pros. So you're going to, and guess what? You're going to end up going in the Hall of Fame again as a contributor. I had, I thought I had it. I thought I had you. You're going to have two to one.

Well, but Shana, you know, you and I are on the same cul-de-sac already, man. But see, now you get to move into another building. You will have two houses in the same subdivision. Well, you know, hey, we just going to enjoy them first ones, okay? Let's enjoy those first ones, you know. But if it ever happens, it will be the shortest speech in the history of the Hall of Fame. I'd have to sit speech in the history of the hall of fame. I'd have had to sit down and listen to all the rest of them.

Yeah. Hey, I don't know. Hopefully we have it, but you, man, can you imagine with all the guys that they missed 2020 and they coming back in 2021, man, that thing might have to start at five o'clock in the morning and go to midnight. Hey, but they say you have to be about to pack a lunch. Are we going to be there?

Yeah, yeah, man. It's going to be a lot of people on that stage dozing off, Ozzie. So, how do you feel about this season? Do you like where you are? Obviously, you like to win a few more games, but I'm looking at you guys the last two, three weeks of the season.

This is the best you look all year. Well, Shannon, you know, it's been a typical season with the coronavirus. Right. I mean, and, you know, all the different protocols, you know, there's a lot of anxiety away from the football field because of dealing with COVID-19, you know, there's a lot of anxiety away from the football field because of dealing with COVID-19, you know, and today you can do this and tomorrow you may not be able to do it. So

all 32 clubs have had to deal with that. And, you know, and we went through that situation where we, I think, had 19 guys that was not able to play because of COVID. But, you know, we made it through that. We weathered that storm. And right now, you know, I think the guys feel like that, hey, we got to this point last year and we didn't take the next step. And it was probably 80, 90% of the team was on that 14-2 team last year. So I think they're looking forward to taking this year

and going one step further. Let's get back to you. Let's get back to go back to where it started. You grew up in Alabama, a small town called Muscle, Alabama. You worked in the cotton fields. What is it about your, a lot of your childhood? What do you remember most? Well, you know, what is that you need to work, you know, hard work pays off. You know, what you and I endured was nothing that our parents had to endure with segregation and integration and all of that.

And the things that started changing when you and I were coming along, but it didn't change for them. I was coming along, but it didn't change for them. But you know what? They never gave up from being good people, good, hardworking people that loved each other. And so those things that you just carry with you, you know, and I saw it, you know, as I was growing up and things started changing when I was coming up, you know, I could go to a predominantly white school I could go and play little league baseball that didn't happen with my older brother and with my parent so I saw things changing and I appreciate that you know I appreciate the past is it some bitterness yes there's a lot of bitterness but I appreciate the past and that past has helped me to get to where I am today a lot of times when I talked to kids today,

I said, find something to do as a child because that'll tell you what you want to do or don't want to do as an adult. Growing up how I grew up, I knew I didn't want to work on no farm and do what my grandfather did. I knew I didn't want to work in a factory. I didn't want to do any of that.

So all the things that I did as a child, it let me know what I didn't want to do as an adult. So all the things that I did as a child, it let me know what I didn't want to do as an adult. I agree with you 100%, man. Hey, I always wanted to take care of these hands, man. You know, you... Ozzy, I mentioned that you grew up in Alabama. And you were of age when the Edmund Pettus, when Bloody Sunday happened on the Edmund Pettus Bridge,

what happened in also the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham. What do you remember about those incidents? Did your parents talk about it? At that point, you're talking about being 8 and 10 and 11 years old. But I was aware of that. But what you did, you watched your parents and how they handled it. And what they did, they your parents and how they handle that okay you know and what they did they just kept us closer together you know and then you know what you learn how to bite

your tongue you know you learn what battles that you had to fight you know right you could fight every battle you know so so you learn that from being in those situation and seeing what was going on but you know it was about out it was about the family, the neighborhood, and all of those things where everybody took care of each other. Right. That's the only way we could make it. I'm looking at this. In 1972, you take your football team to the state championship,

your basketball team. You were the hoopla, Harvey. I didn't know you were the hoopla. Hey, if I was – instead of being 6'3", if I would have been a 6'5", a 6'6", I'd be in the NBA, you know, but I was 6'3", you know, and I learned a long time. You can't be 6'3", trying to play in the paint. You know, it just don't work. So you go to, obviously, at that time, there's two. If you're in Alabama and you're a great football player, for the more time than not, at that point in time,

you're not leaving the state. You're going to Alabama or you're going to Auburn. Obviously, Coach Bryant is at Alabama. What made you decide to go to Alabama? Well, you know, I was in the, I think, the fourth or fifth class of African-Americans that was allowed to go to Alabama. OK. Weber and John Mitchell had just graduated the year I came in as a freshman. OK.

And they were only selecting a few of us at that time. You know, at each class, there was was an even number which means because we could you know uh room together right you know so there was a lot of things that people didn't realize that was going on during that time but i committed to go to auburn because you talked about that 72 high school uh football championship where the quarterback on that team went to auburn the other receiver went to Alabama. They were a year ahead of me. So when I was coming out, you know, Coach Shook Jordan was talking about,

Phil Gargis was a guy named. Gargis and Newsom could be the next Sullivan to Beasley. And so they were selling me on that. So I committed to Auburn. But then, you know, when John Mitchell came up, we went to dinner, and there was just something about Alabama that was different, you know, and that's why I switched from Auburn, went to Alabama. Best decision I made.

Talk to us about Coach Bryant. What type of coach was he? Was he hard? I mean, and to this day, everybody that refers to him, nobody calls him, even the coaches call him Coach Bryant. Hard but fair. Okay. You know, and the lessons that he taught us

from the day we got there when we were freshmen up until we graduated from there are the lessons that I'm living right now. A lot of the principles that I believe in about whether being the GM for the Ravens or being a football player for the Browns, those lessons were taught to me by Coach Bryant. They're things that you live with.

He was able to take lessons that we learned from the football field and apply them to our life away from the football field. And any player that you talk to that played under him will tell you the same thing. Ozzie, obviously Alabama, it was still, even though you came up and things were a little different, it was still kind of like, okay, blacks here, whites there. How did it make you feel that you go to it, you play in the stadium 80,000 and they're cheering for you,

but those same ones might turn around and call you the N-word or say something out of pocket to you. Well, you know what? I talked about being able to bite your lip, bite your tongue, knowing what battles to fight. But the one thing about it, and my mother and my father found that, my parents found that, when you went to Alabama, you were an Alabama football player.

Okay. And that separated you from everything else, you know. And whether you wanted that or not, it did. Right. You were black, but you weren't really black. You know, you were an Alabama football player. Exactly. And I wore that crimson white, and I'd say roll tide.

I mean, you look at this. Alabama player of the decade of the 1970s, two-time All-SEC 7-7-7-6, consensus All-American, your final season. You're coming out in the draft. Obviously, you're coming out. What are you thinking? What's the process?

You're like, okay, I'm going somewhere, and I'm going to be able to take care of my parents. Well, you know, it was interesting. I was coming out, and I think the league was split. Some teams wanted me to play wide out and some teams told me they were going to move me to tight end. Okay. You know, so I didn't know.

I didn't know where I was going to come in. And I can tell you the receivers who was in that draft are the ones that went before me. Wes Chandler, James Lofton John Jefferson Ken McAfee Ozzy people don't realize how good John Jefferson

how good West Chandler James Lofton is in the Hall of Fame but West Chandler they call him the moon man because he wore goggles West Chandler could run routes that Eric Correale system they were magnificent. I understand. And JJ could

catch a BB in the dark, too. That was a great group. And so, hey, I get drafted by the Browns. I go in. That first minicamp, I'm their rookie minicamp. I play wideout. And I was having some success. They taught me some things.

But then after that minicamp, we stayed over for an additional week. And Rich Kotak, who ended up becoming head coach of the Jets, you know, he was my tight end coach, was the receiver tight end coach at that time. And he told me Sam wanted to see me. And so to go up. Sam Ritigliano was the head coach at the time. Exactly right.

Yeah, Sam Ritigliano. So I go up and he said, you proved in this minicamp that you can play wide receiver in this league and you'll probably be a good one. He said, I want to move you to tight end. I think you'll be a great tight end. And he said, Ozzie, we're going to throw you to football when you're at tight end.

Well, that's all you needed to hear. Exactly. That's all you needed to hear. You wanted a ball. Yeah. Your last year at Alabama, you didn't win the national championship. That's like, it's normally like a foregone conclusion. You go to Alabama, you stay four years.

You're going to win an SEC title and you're going to win a national title. That's almost like a foregone conclusion. and you're going to win a national title. That's almost like a foregone conclusion. Well, there's a reason why that I'm, that team that Alabama's playing tomorrow, that I have a little bit of a hatred for because we went into that bowl game and we played Ohio State.

We beat them and Texas lost and Notre Dame jumped from four to one and jumped over us and became the national champions you know and so I have some bitterness about that and hopefully Nick Saban will use some of that again tomorrow when Alabama plays Notre Dame some of my bitterness I think I look at some of these great Alabama players from Derek Thomas, Barstar, Don Hudson, Joe Namath, Leroy Jordan, John Hanna, Cornelius Bennett,

yourself, Julio, Sean Alexander. You got a Mount Rushmore? Who's on your Mount Rushmore of Alabama players? I think you have to start with Don Hudson. Okay. You put him up there. I think you got to put with Don Hudson. Okay. You put him up there. I think you got to put John Hanna. Okay.

You have to put him up there. How many do I get to put? You ain't got before. It's my rush more. Four. You get four heads. All right. Well, then, okay.

Well, then I got two, right? Yes, you got two. Hudson and Hanna. Then you got to put Newsome up there. And then you know what? The other one would be Dwight Stevenson. People don't realize how good Dwight was. That's right.

He was on a pace to be the greatest center to ever play before he got his knee blown out. He was unbelievable. No question. Now, you know, but they got this new generation coming up, but we got to see, you know, what their longevity is going to be because each year we keep pumping out some new ones. But right now, right now, you know, those four is going to be –

it's going to be hard for somebody to remove one of those four off of Mount Rushmore. Ozzie, I'm biased. DT, I've never seen a guy. I mean, Garth Miller can bend. I understand. But that DT, the way he can bend and bend that edge. Yep.

Hey, but Shannon, you and I didn't worry about that because he was going one direction and we were going the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't ask me to block him. I ain't got nothing for him. You got zero. That's why you play those tough tackles, all that money, and the right tackles, all that money.

I'm going to catch passes. So if he's trying to cover me, I got him covered. But I ain't trying to block him. One of the things, when I look at a guy like Derrick Henry, and a lot of people say, well, the running back position is obsolete and he's too big, He can't get started. Are you surprised the amount of success Derrick Henry is having? Well, you know, I watched him for three years at Alabama, you know,

and I remember when they recruited him to come there, you know, and, you know, we have all these phobias that we say what guys can and can't do. Right. But you know what? You have to watch a guy play. Right. You know, and Derek can bend. You know, we all know that at some point,

if you're an athlete and you can bend, then you're going to be able to play on this level. And you can bend. And he's got a mean stiff arm. You know, you go back to Earl Cameron. You go back to Chuck Monson. You know, those guys were big like that. But, you know, you just, you know, people, it was Earl.

But then Chuck Muncy, you know, Chuck Muncy was unbelievable. He was. He was a big guy. Yes. Tony Albert, another one. So there have been other big backs. And so that and he went to a good system in Tennessee, where it's a downhill system.

I mean, we've played him twice and we still haven't tackled him yet. Once he gets going in the fourth quarter. I don't know. We've seen backs like Earl was stocky. Earl was 240, but Earl was what? 5'10", 5'11". We've never seen a guy 6'4", 255, 260.

Because I don't care what anybody say. They better stop listing that man at 240. He's not 240, Ozzie. And you know it too. Well, like I said, you know, his ability to bend, his vision, and he's got good feet. And then the other thing is he can finish. You know, he gets that in that secondary.

Half of the times guys are trying to find angles not to get there to tackle him, but he can finish. Yeah, they tried to wait until he gets past so he can jump on his back because they don't want to come up to the front or to the side because that's the ball coming. You mentioned the guys that are currently playing, Derrick Henry arguably the best running back. Julio, let's talk about Julio.

You know something about receivers. Where would you rank Julio? Well, as a physical specimen, right at the top, you know. And I saw Julio play in high school, and he was a man playing against boys, you know, when he was a 17-year-old at Foley High School, where he went to high school at. But he's a phenomenal talent. And, you know, I don't know if you heard the story

that uh demarcus cousins got dunked on by julio you know so that says something right there but unbelievable physical specimen got great hands he can you know you got some you got the marvin harrison you got the steve smiths of the. You got some guys that can do a little of this, a little of that. Julio can do it all. He's just one of those things. You know, he's had some issues with his injuries, but when he's got his game on, you know, he can do it all. Unbelievable physical specimen.

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Subscribe today, and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to know who the wide receiver coach,

because as big as Julio is, Julio is 6'2", 6' a half, six, three, 230, and can run routes like 185-pound wide receiver. Calvin Ridley can run routes. Amari Cooper, Jerry Judy, Devontae Smith, all these guys can run the route tree. Well, you know what? At Alabama, one guy recruits the next guy, you in uh because we got some young guys there right now davante smith and you know uh the the young kid that got hurt those guys got recruited by the

other guys you know so that's what happens hey you come here this is what's going to happen to you you can be the next one everybody wants to be that next one if they go there they can be that next one right uh your draft you mentioned some of the guys that were in your draft also in that draft uh earl campbell james lofton clay matthews jr you doug williams man i that you got well that draft was loaded yeah art steel you know uh with the with the Kansas City? Browner. Yeah, yeah, he did. Terry Miller.

Yeah, it was a heck of a draft, you know. And I got to know a lot of those guys from, you know, being on the different All-American teams. Right. You know, and they were all a great bunch of guys, you know, great people as well as good football players, you know. So, yeah, it was a real good class. And I think we impacted the league once we all got our chance to get on the field.

Ozzie, your rookie year, you named Browns Offensive Player of the Year as a rookie. As a rookie. That never happened. That had never happened before. What, I mean... Well, I think, you know, I came in with some notoriety because I came

from Alabama and people had seen me play you know right I wasn't an unknown uh quantity when I got there but you know what happened is is uh they were struggling with the quarterback position and they didn't know where what they didn't think Brian Sight was going to be the guy right but he had a breakout year that year, you know. Right. And, you know, and so we became – you know, we started throwing the ball all over the park with myself, Dave Logan, and Reggie Rucker.

You know, we had the Pruitts in the backfield. So we were throwing it all over the park. And so I just got in to be a part of that. And I put up some numbers. And I think, you know what, a lot of people say people like what's new. And I was new. You know, and I think you know what a lot of people say people like what's new and I was new you know and I think that's how I won that award I was new you had some heartbreak um the drive John Elway and then a few years later you lose to them and them what do you remember standing on the sideline watching the drive?

Well, I learned a lesson because, you know, we had gotten ahead and I watched John take that team down the field. You know, my buddy Hanford on that third and 18, I don't know why he was trying to play a seven route when he knew Vance Johnson, what else, wasn't one of them little old guys. That was Mark Jackson. Yeah, okay, all right.

Was going to run it in. He and I still haven't gotten over that. You know, when I see him, I remind him. But, you know, I learned a lesson. We got the ball back, but we had spent our time watching that drive. That drive drained everything out of us. So when we got the ball back,

we wasn't prepared to go out there and go win the game. So you, I've learned, and I try to tell this to other people, that when you're not on the field, you need to be getting prepared to go back out there for the next series. Don't be a spectator. You know, you can watch SportsCenter

and all of that once you get home, but you need to be preparing yourself to go because if we'd have prepared, we could have went back out there, kicked the field goal and won the game. Ozzy, it's funny that you say that because I was a guy, I never stood and watched the game.

I'm sitting down, I'm on the jumbotron because there ain't nothing I can do. All that yelling, screaming, yeah, sure, yeah, I'm yelling from, but I'm sitting on the bench because knowing that I'm going to have to go out there and either I'm going to have to hold on to the ball to make sure they don't get it again, or I'm going to have to go help try to win this game.

No question. I mean, yeah, and like I said, it was a great lesson that I learned during that time, and I've utilized that for the rest of my career. Ozzie, a part of your job is not only drafting players, but sometimes you have to have tough conversations with players uh Ray had I came in in 2000 when Ray was going through what he was going through uh a few years after I left Jamal go through something and then you had the incident in 2014 what were some of the things that you shared with the guys to to help especially Jamal

and Ray turn not only turn their playing careers around, but their lives around? Well, I knew the person, you know, and I always, I don't talk to the football player. I talk to the person. Okay. You know, and I deal with it, and it's a man-to-man conversation.

Right. You know, and, you know, I'm just Ozzie. He's Ray. He's Jamal. He's Ray Wright. You know what? We're know, I'm just Ozzy. He's Ray. He's Jamal. He's Ray Wright. You know what? We're just talking man to man. You know, forget about my title and what you are.

When you can have a relationship with people and you can talk to people that way, then you can be able to say some things and they'll appreciate it. They may not want to hear it, but they will appreciate it because they can say some things back to me that I don't want to hear it, but I know it's something that I need to hear because that person is really unleashing all of his feelings to me, and I need to hear whether I want to or not. So I always say, hey, I'm going to take my hat off, you take your hat off, and we're just two men talking.

Is that the toughest part of your job when you have to have those type conversations? No, the big ones are not the hard ones. It's the ones that, you know, it was certain guys that, you know, number 21s that did all the little things wrong all the time. Those are the ones, you know, because you need to find, hey, dude, you need a chance for you to turn the corner. You ain't turned the corner yet, you know, because you need to be like, hey, dude, you need a chance for you to turn the corner. You ain't turned the corner yet, you know. So it's them little guys that keep doing those little things,

not showing up, you know, sleeping in means and all of that, being unprofessional, being unprofessional. Those are the ones that drive you because, you know what, they are hurting themselves more so than they're hurting me, you know. Right. So it's all of the little ones. The big ones, you know, you can deal with that because you're only going to get them once every four or five years. You don't want them, but they only come once every four or five years.

That 2000 you put together, did you know 2000 would be special? Did you know that team had the capabilities of getting to and winning the Super Bowl when you constructed that team no no I did not you know I you know I thought we were going to be good on defense I didn't know where we're going to be at because we started off with Tony Banks at quarterback and we had brought in Trent you know you know I think and now we were talking I was doing a interview with a guy from USA Today today. I think he's with USA Today.

And he talked about the momentum that was built in the 2000 draft, you know, and the 2000, how we all of a sudden we got momentum. And the same thing happened in 2012. You get your momentum. You know, I just think that team grew so close together and we had an identity. You know, we were going to play the way we were gonna play on defense, we were gonna do what we do on defense, on offense and we had you in there, you're making the plays that you have to make

like you did against the Raiders, you know. All we need was a couple of plays. You were that three point shooter, I guess you would say. You know. That's it. And so, yeah, but no, that was a special group. It was a special group. But I think the leadership of you, Rob Wilson, and Goose took those young guys.

Because, you know, Ray and Peter and all those guys and Dwayne, they were very young. Correct. But we, because of you guys, and you all had had success, had won, y'all came in and showed those guys what to do. And they followed you all had had success, had won. Y'all came in and showed those guys what to do, and they followed you all's lead. Were you concerned that when we went to Tampa that Brian says, okay, I'm not going to have room check? Now, we didn't have room check all year.

Were you concerned like, oh, my goodness, these Jokers ain't coming in. Ain't no telling what's going to happen. I just hope they show up on Sunday. No, because I think, again, the leadership we had, y'all had control of that. Y'all had control. And if I could keep you guys from going out, then I knew the rest of the guys wasn't going to be going out.

That was the thing. You know what? I think the thing is that what I told the guys, I said, look, you better look around because if you think it's going to be like this next year, it's not. Somebody's going. Coaches are going to leave. Players are going to leave. Free agency being waived. And you don't want to be the guy that says, man, I went to the Super Bowl. You want to be the guy that says, I won the Super Bowl. There you go. Exactly right. It was, like I said, it was the leadership of that team.

But we also had guys that were willing to follow you all's leadership. That's what won it for us. Ozzie, how do we get more guys like yourself in the position like you have, like you are, the black general managers, the black head coaches? Because if you look at the makeup of the league, 70% of the players are African-American, but it's not representative in positions of coaching, position of making moves to bring players in. How do we train that dynamic?

Well, you know, I serve on two committees. I'm on the competition committee, which we do all of the major rules. I'm on the workplace diversity committee. And we have a commissioner, Roger Goodell, who's committed to changing that landscape. And what we have to do is to fill the pipeline with qualified candidates, but to get those qualified candidates in front of the decision makers. Those guys need to be sitting in front of it and let the decision makers have that, not filtering up through the

ranks or whatever it is, and they never get a chance to sit in front of Steve Bichotti or Jeffrey Lurie or Bob Kraft. We need to make sure that those guys get a chance to sit with those guys because those guys know how to make great decisions. So that's what we're doing. You know, we're spending a lot of time in making sure we got the right guys. We're even helping guys to, you know, prepare themselves to interview or prepare themselves how to,

I mean, every enemy is preparing himself for all of this. So we're doing it. Is it going to change overnight? No. You know, the problem is, you know, I have a little pamphlet right here and the numbers in 1998

are just like the numbers are now. You know, we haven't made a dent yet. But, you know, I think there are people that are committed to it. And I think we have some young guys that are qualified that if they get in front of that right person, then we can start to change those numbers. Because you hear all, excuse me,

you hear this all the time, Oz, that the NFL is a copycat league. Well, hell, if you copycat, look at Baltimore. There's Isaac Newsom that's been in charge for all these years and they play, look at the way his team's plays. Look at the players that he's drafted. Look at the, what they do. They've only had, only had two coaches, three coaches. I mean, once they got Brian Billiken, now they have John Harbaugh. So in the last 20 plus years,

they've only had two coaches. There's something to that. Now if the league is copycat, like we say say it is shouldn't you be copying that formula yeah but yeah yeah you would but then there are some other successful people too right they may prefer to to copy those you know what i'm talking about that's like there's some barriers that have to be broken uh shannon and uh we're trying. We're trying. I, you know, I feel good about what our effort is. Right. I don't like where we are as a league when it comes to, you know, two African-American general managers and four head coaches. That's not, those are not good numbers, but I'd like to have this conversation with you three years from now, and hopefully I can say we've gotten better. We've gotten better.

But it'll take us three years for it to happen, I think. Ozzie, we talked about some of your great players. Now, obviously, Jonathan played. I think J.O. played 11 or 12 years. He retired a Raven. Ray played 17 years, all 17 in Baltimore. Ed Reed, how difficult is it a decision when you're dealing with a historically a transcendent player? And obviously you want all your transcendent players to retire Ravens. How difficult was it to like,

we can't go that extra step for Ed Reed ored or subs how do how do you how do you make that decision how do you and john harbour and your staff sit down and say guys we're going as far as we can go and this is it well let's start with once a raven always a raven okay we'll start with that but you know what we you know what as anything in life, you understand that there's a limit in how far you can go. Right. But when you fudge it a little bit, yeah. But when you have to look at the totality of what you're trying to do

and build a football team, then you can only go so far. So at some point, and I've always said this, and I've said it to you when you went back to Denver, I want you to make all the money you can make. Yeah, but you told me. This yeah this is all I can pay you know if you got a chance to go make some more go somewhere please go but this is all I can do right and I want you to do and you know what and we still can hug and shake hands because I appreciate what you've done but you know you only have so many years that you can make this type of money right and you need to go ahead and make it if you can. And if you can't, I'm welcoming you back.

You're still part of the family. And that was the thing that I remember most, because I remember having a conversation that year, the Super Bowl was in New Orleans, and I remember having a conversation. And you asked me what I, you know, you asked me what I was going to do. And I asked you, I said, what do you think? You're like, hell boy, you went to the pro bowl. You had, you led the tight end and catch it. You can still play, but let's have a conversation in a couple of weeks. And we, you

know, we'll, we'll see where we go. And I was like, you call me, you asked me what I want to do. I say, I wanted to play. And you say, you said, uh, boy, now this is all I can pay you. Now we going to release you. Now go, Hey, you get, you get some money. You're going to get more than what we can offer you. But if you don't find out what you like go, hey, you get some money. You're going to get more than what we can offer you. But if you don't find out what you like, come back. We can do something. And I think that's the thing that everybody loves most about you, Ozzy, because you're honest, you're upfront with them,

and you tell them how it is. It ain't no, well, Ozzy said this and then somebody else said that. Whatever you say, take that to the bank. Well, you know, that's relationship building because I know that I'm going to see players five years from then, 10 years from now, and I want them to be able to respect me like I respected them. Correct.

I can show them the appreciation for what they did when they were a member of the Ravens. Jimmy Smith credited you and said that the off the field problem that he had, he said you were one of the main reasons that helped him turn his life, his career around. I mean, you talked about, said sometimes you just have the conversation. You take your hat off.

They take their hat off. This man to man. I'm not your boss. You're not a player. I'm a man to a man talking to a man trying to help resolve an issue. But you know what? But within that, I got to tell you some things that you may not want to hear. Okay.

I'll tell you some things that you need to change, you know, and, you know, Jimmy just did an extension with us today. Correct. You know, for another year, you know, and he has, he's a rave in there, you know, and so, but, you know, there's some tough conversations. Hey, you need to change, you know, or we're going to have to change, and, you know, but I know you. I've known you since, you know, you were 21 years old when we, you know, went through the whole recruiting and drafting process. Right. You know, I know what's deep down inside of you, and you can't

change, you know, and when they change, then they become more valuable in that locker room because now they can tell their stories to those young kids also. You play for Mr. Modell, but he would go crazy if he heard us call him Mr. Modell because he'd say, that's my grandfather, Mr. Modell. So you had to call him Art. Art Modell, he gave you the opportunity at the time no one else had given a person of color that opportunity to run a franchise. Talk about your relationship with Art. You know, I could say it was a father-son.

It was owner GM. It was owner player. It uh and then I'm gonna say some negative things too because sometimes it wasn't as good as they thought but you know but there was a trust factor that Mr. Modell had with me and that I had with him and some of those conversations were not very easy you know right of me saying this is what we need to do. He telling me we can't do that. But you know what? I really respect him as a man. The man had a great heart. It was nothing he wouldn't do for his players.

He loved it. You know, you got these corporate owners now, you know, but no, this was Mr. Modell's life. As a matter of fact, this office that I'm in, this was built for Modell's life. As a matter of fact, this office that I'm in, this was built for him. Right. And when Eric took over, he took my office and then I moved in here, you know,

and I'm proud to be sitting in that man's office right now. And I think that's the thing. You mentioned the corporate side of it because the corporate bosses are not used to being next to the workers. Well, Mr. Art looked at, like, oh, those are players. And I remember he would always be on the golf cart. He'd always come out there on the golf cart,

and you'd be sitting on the golf cart with him, and then me, Ed, me, Rod, and Hooray would come up. He's like, Ozzie, you got to get off, because they can win games for me. You can't do nothing for me. So get off and let them take the golf cart. The guy, his driver would take us up to the, and come back, and you guys would get back on the cart.

But he was an unbelievable man. Do you, I believe, and I've had conversation with voters, that Art Modell belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He's not the only owner that's ever moved a team. There have been so many and they still get their rightful respect. And so for some reason, he's been denied his rightful place, which is a bus in Canton, Ohio.

Shannon, you're 100% correct. And I was on the selection crew for the 100th anniversary. And I had to do a presentation on Mr. Modell, you know, for him to be a contributor. And, you know, and I said, and I said all of those things that you said, you know, because there are other owners. Al Davis moved the Raiders twice, you know. And sued the NFL.

Yeah, exactly. And sued it. So there he is. There is no doubt that Art Modell belongs in Ken. There's no doubt in my mind, you know, and I just hope that, you know, if we continue to push, that he will get there at some point, you know, and there is that faction that continue,

don't want to give him his due. But when you match him up to all of the other owners that in the National Football League and what he did with TV and being the first and only president of the league, he deserves to be in Canada. And at some point, I hope he gets that opportunity. You have a very unique relationship

with Coach Belichick. You became director of pro personnel under him when he was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Talk about your relationship with Coach Belichick. Well, you know, it was a situation where I retired in 90 and he was hired. And we had our first meeting and he asked me, you know, do you want to, are you going to play again? I go, no, coach, I think it's time.

He said, well, I could use you as a player. I could use your leadership in the locker room. You know what it takes. But I made that decision. But then I was fortunate enough to go to work for Bill. Bill does not get the credit. Well, I guess he is getting it now. For the football knowledge that he has,

the work ethic that he has, what his beliefs are. And I was able to sit there and learn from him for five years, you know, and he would push me in the areas and I'd be like, coach, I don't, I don't, no, you got to do this in order for us to be a success. So I would say so much of what I have enjoyed being a general manager, I learned under Bill Belichick in those five years that we were in Cleveland. He gave me a foundation, and that foundation has helped me to be where I am today. And, Ozzie, but you paid – but I look at what you've done. When I was in Baltimore, you had James Shaq Harris, director of pro personnel,

you had John Wooten, and you remember, the veteran players sat in first class in front of the plane, and me and Shaq, it was not, you already know, it was not, there was not, no one was sleeping, because we were going to talk and joke all the way back. Hey, you know what? I still have those conversations with Shaq now. You know, we talk, you know, once every couple of weeks. And, you know, he loves those times. You know, he loves to be able to tell you, you know, he'll tell you, hey, Bill Russell needs to borrow one of your hands because he's got 11 rings.

You know, stuff like that, you know. But, yeah, I love it. But he was a great football man. And, you know, I talk about what Bill taught me, but having Shaq and Woot and then Phil Savage to work along with me in those first years, they helped me to learn because I needed to lean on some other people and they had the experience and the expertise.

You know, I love Shaq. You know, I love Shaq. You know, I love Shaq. And he'll always tell you, it's quicker by air. It's quicker by air, Shaq. Nathiel, let me ask you, the recruiting process or the free agency process in 2000, why did you think you needed me? I mean, there are other tight ends available.

You didn't necessarily need. What was it about me, my playing style? Because I remember, I want you to tell the story and then I'm going to share another story. Well, you realize we got Ben Coates too that year. Yes. Am I correct? Yep. Well, then we needed both of you guys. And what we were going to be, it was you, Ben Coates, Jamal, Kadre, Pat Johnson, you know, so you were going to be, it was you, Ben Coates, Jamal, Cadre, Pat Johnson, you know, so. Jermaine Lewis.

We were going to beat up people, and then we were going to try to strike, you know. And so we needed you. You were going to be a mismatch guy, you know, and Ben did all the dirty work. Yeah. We know that. And he enjoyed it because he was getting a chance to play and win him another Super Bowl.

So the pieces just came together. But we needed someone that the quarterback could trust and they could trust you. I remember you had the conversation with me because I flew back because Mr. Modell was down there, as I mentioned. Ray was going through a situation in 2000 and Art was already in Atlanta. So I ended up flying back with him, if I'm not mistaken, that Sunday. And I remember getting to the facility and you were there and he said, Ozzy, don't mess this up. I got him primed and ready for you now. You just don't mess it up. And I remember you and I, we went to breakfast, we went to dinner that night, we had a conversation, went to breakfast the next morning

and he says, now, we gonna do this. He says, I don't want you to change. He said, I don't hurt, everybody done told me how you are in the locker room, you talk, how hard you work. He says, I want that exact Shannon Sharp that was in Denver for the last 10 years, I want that guy to come to Baltimore. Well, Shannon, that's what we, we allow you to be who you are.

You absolutely. We're not a cookie cutter organization where, you know, you got to wear a tie, you got to have a sport coat, you got to walk in here and you can't talk. No, no, no, no. We want every player that's a part of the Baltimore Ravens to be who they are because if you're who you are, it'll show itself out on the football field.

It'll show itself in the meeting room. If you are who you are and you're not trying to be someone else. Were you ever concerned? Because, you know, in that playoff run, there was no love lost between us and Tennessee. Jeff Fisher and Brian Billick didn't care for each other. Our team, our players did not like them. And it's still that way to this day. And we definitely didn't like the Ra other. Our team, our players did not like them, and it's still that way to this day.

And we definitely didn't like the Raiders. So were you concerned, like, man, this might be getting a little bit out of hand. They might be doing too much talking. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not with that. Well, because y'all couldn't out-talk Brian. You know, the more talking that y'all did,

the more talking Brian did, you know. And, you know, I couldn't keep him quiet, you know. But no, you know what? And we had Steve McNair to come and play for us for a year. And we had a chance to talk about that, you know, about that rivalry that we had with Eddie George and that whole group. And then, of course, you know, with the Raiders in that group. You know, but, you know, hey, we were built.

We had, we were built to be able, if you look at the quarterbacks that you had, McNair, Brunel, Cordell Stewart, Jeff Blake. I'm trying, so we had to have a defense because all those guys would take the ball down and go run with it. So we had to have a defense that could go track those guys down, you know,

keep them from getting that extra first down, you know, and keep a drive going. So that's how the defense would be. And offensively, you know what, Hey, with the quarterbacks that we had, you know, we had to play a game where we didn't put the game in the quarterback's hand. Right. And we needed somebody that could, you know what, the good thing about you, Shannon, and I can say this and I don't give you too many accolades,

you are a quarterback's friend because they may not have to be very accurate, but you would make the catch for them. And we needed that. That's what – well, that was my job. I got the name Big Play Shay because we didn't need a whole lot. We knew early on – I mean, having the conversation with Brian, we knew if we could get up 10 and we didn't turn the ball over, you couldn't beat us.

You were not going to drive the ball 70, 80 yards on that defense and get a touchdown. So if we got the lead and you didn't get a pick six or scoop and score, it was over. It was over. That was, and it was so enjoyable. And you know what? And that style of football still wins.

Watch how the playoffs play out. You know, now we got some, you know what? And that style of football still wins. Watch how the playoffs play out. You know, now we got some, you know, some athletic quarterback that can do, that are doing some things, but they're doing it with their feet and extending drives with their feet. But at the end of the day, you still win football games in December and January

the way we won it in 2000. Going into the Super Bowl, you watched film of the Giants. You saw every game they played. You watched their opponents. Did you think they could beat us? No, I was skeptical. I didn't like the matchup from their standpoint, you know. But you have to play the game.

Right. And you have to remember that, was it Derrick Brooks? They had a, they got, once we scored, they got a pick six too, I think. Am I correct? Yep. And so.

They got a holding call that got negated it. Exactly right. You know what? So otherwise it would have been a tie game, I think, or supposed to have been a tie game. Right. So, you know, that helped us. And then Jermaine, with the kickoff, gave us that, you know,

gave us that extra little push. And then I remember what Ray told you, hey, you know, hey, y'all got us 10, that was enough. And they went to work. Yeah. I mean, that was the thing. I mean, Ray was you, hey, you know, hey, y'all got us 10, that was enough, and they went to work. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, that was the thing, I mean, Ray was like, hey, I remember, and talking to Marvin, I mean, that might be a great, you look at that defensive staff

with Marvin Lewis, Jack Del Rio, Rex Ryan, Mike Smith was on that, Mike Smith? Yeah. Getting, I mean, we go to the Raiders, and we get up on – and we score on them because we scored 7-0. And I remember coming to the sideline and Ray and Rod,

like, we going to the Super Bowl. I'm like, what you mean we going to the Super Bowl, man? This is the first quarter. They don't come to the Super Bowl. He's like, Shane, they're not scoring. I'm like, we going to the Super Bowl because they – because we might not score. Shane, I'm just glad you didn't get caught, man.

I'm glad you didn't get caught. They couldn't catch me, man. You know I turned them bowls on them. Look, you've been around the game a long, long time. Where would you rank that 2000 Ravens defense? We know about the 78, 79 Steelers. We know about the 85 Bears, the 2000 Ravens, the 02 Bucks, the what, what is it, the 14, or the 2012 Legion of Boom Seattle.

Where would you rank as far as all-time great defenses? Where would you put that 2000 Ravens? Well, you know, if you go by Hall of Famers, you have to say the Pittsburgh Steelers. They got maybe five or six Hall of Famers. All of them are deep, man. But, you know, as I said, as you and I talk about, you know, the tight end group, they all belong on the cul-de-sac.

You know, a cul-de-sac, there's only so many houses and so many people can go on that cul-de-sac. You know, so they all belong on there. You know, I experienced the 70s with the Steelers and those guys and what they could do with me, Joe, and Elsie Greenwood. And do I mean, you know, and... Mel Blount, Lambert, Ham.

Mel Blount, I mean, you know, I still got pains from that. But, you know, I still got pains from that. But those defenses that you talked about, and the 85 Bears, I played against that defense also. I'm going to put them all on that cul-de-sac. You know what? And then if I have to choose which house I want to live,

I don't think I'll be wrong by choosing any one of them. The quarterback in today's game, you look at the way they could do this kid Patrick Mahomes and the way he can throw the ball with his rolling left or rolling right Aaron Rodgers uh Josh Allen are we entering the golden age of the mobile quarterback that because when you say mobile quarterback used to be he was mobile but he couldn't throw or the pocket passer could throw from the pocket, but he couldn't move. These guys have elevated that so they can throw from the pocket and they can throw on the move.

They're athletes. Josh Allen, he's an athlete. Patrick Mahomes is an athlete. We have athletes playing quarterback, and an athlete can do multiple things. Okay. You know, you got your eight things you want, they can do eight of them.

They can do seven of the eight. And so, you know, we're in an era of the athlete playing quarterback. We're no longer with the statues and different things that was happening during our time and before our time. Now, the athlete, that athlete who started off when he was six and seven and eight years old playing quarterback, being an athlete,

is now an athlete that's playing quarterback in the National Football League. After your last Super Bowl, the miracle run in 2012, that was unbelievable because you go on the road. Now, you go beat the Broncos, who had just blown you out like three weeks before, and you lose, I think, the Houston Texans. They take you apart.

Did you think, like, man, I don't know. Did you think you could get it together in time to make a run? Well, you know what? And I can say this, and Ray has a big part. We lost in New England in the finals in the AFC Championship game. The year before. Where we had to drop pass by, I think, Lee Evans. Lee Evans.

And we missed a field goal. But you know what? And Ray got up in that locker room, and he goes, you know what? God don't make no mistakes. That's what he said. You know what I go? That's right. You know what?

We wasn't supposed to win. So we go to that next year and Joe gets hot, you know, Joe gets hot in the playoffs, you know, and once Joe got hot, then I think that it ignited everyone else, you know, and Jacoby started, everybody started to plan at a level above who they really were, but it was Joe that was the catalyst. I read what you said.

You admire Phil Jackson and how he's able to win, but also win with like the, you know, when you, when you in this game, you got egos. I don't care what anybody tell you. People like, well, this guy don't have no ego. Bulljive. The better you are, the bigger the ego that you have. You say you, you, you,

you admire Phil because he had Shaq and Kobe, he had Michael and Scotty. What is it about him that you admire so much? Well, number one, he managed some of the greatest players to play in the NBA. He molded those guys into a team, and he made winning the most important thing. Right.

That's why I admire him. You know, and he did it at two different places. He made winning. Okay, yeah, we got Michael and we got Scotty. And, you know, we got a lot of, you know, he got those guys that say, the most important thing is winning. You know, we need to win. So that's why I admire him.

And then he goes and does it again with the lakers so i admire his ability to mold young men into a team and have one goal and that's winning how much more difficult is your job made by social media because i think when you played there was none of that when i played there was none of that it wasn't about clicks it wasn't about like it wasn't about tick tock it wasn't about you know, doing everything for show. You went out there and you played hard and then you let the chip fall where you may. But it seems like now everybody wants to record everything. I'm studying my plays. I'm watching film. I'm at practice. I'm washing my car. Shannon, times have changed.

Shannon times have changed you have to let the players understand that it's different now you know and what you think you can do and people won't see it they got they got ways of seeing you so don't do it you know just don't do it and so that's what you have to be able to tell them you know and just don't do it. And so that's what you have to be able to tell them, you know, and I don't understand Instagram and Facebook and I'm not on any all that. I got no idea what that, but I know they are. That's what their life is all about. And so you have to, we have to educate them on that. Just like you and I got educated about going to clubs,

you know, or what neighborhood. So we spend time educating guys on on social media so that they can understand how bad it could be not only for them but for our organization and for their families you know so we have to educate them on that and we have people that are professionals that do it uh i appreciate you taking time by today i know you're busy you got the big plush office now. Congratulations, Vaughn. You know, I'll be in touch with you.

You know, I call from time to time just to ask how the second or third best tight end in the history of the game is doing. Hey, Shannon, always welcome your calls, man. You know, I enjoy watching you and my man on first – not first take. What's yours? Undisputed. Undisputed. Yeah, the Undisputed. Undisputed. Yeah, the Undisputed, you know what? Sometimes I can sit there and listen to you, you know,

but then sometimes I go, no, I done had enough of Shannon today. But you know what? Go ahead. You are doing what you're supposed to be doing. You're talking. I appreciate that. I'm sure your grandmama, your granddaddy told you that. Boy, you can talk.

Yeah, that's what they told me. They said, yeah, you were born to talk. I'm sure your grandmama and your granddaddy told you that. Boy, you can talk. Yeah, that's what they told me. They said, well, yeah, you can do that. But I need you and Kevin Byrne and Steve Machado to get in the room because I think at some point in time, I might need to be in the Ravens' ring of honor. I really do. I think I made a big, valuable contribution. I think y'all need to put that to the test.

Get in line. Get in line. y'all need to put that in line before i go i know uh i think on the 28th or the 29th of january they're gonna have a a virtual reunion okay of that super bowl team you know so i'll see you on that uh virtual thing then okay so what that'll be oh it's the 20th it's the 20th 28th or the 29th of january yeah it's the 20th anniversary? I think it's the 28th or the 29th of January. Yeah, it's the 20th anniversary of the team. Yes. And they're going to have a virtual party, you know, for two and a half hours.

So you'll be getting an invitation. Y'all sending food out of me, what y'all said? I mean, I need to get somebody in a jacket or something. You know what? I don't work in that department, you know. I appreciate it, man. Good luck the rest of the season. And I'll talk to you down the road. I appreciate it, man. Good luck the rest of the season. And I'll talk to you down the road, bro.

Okay, man. Have a good one. Let's go. All my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice.

Got the roll of dice. That's why. All my life. I've been grinding all my life. Yeah. All my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll of life. All my life. I've been grinding all my life. Sacrifice.

Plus we'll pay the price. Want a slice. Got to roll a dice. That's why. All my life. I've been grinding all my life. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee.

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