Club Shay Shay - Rich Paul

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Rich Paul, one of the most influential figures in sports, shares countless stories which include dice games where grandmas' money could’ve been taken. He delves into how he convinced LeBron James to return to Cleveland after the infamous and contentious letter from Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Rich sheds light on the strategic pitch he gave not only to LeBron but also to the key figures in his life: his wife, and his mother. Additionally, the episode explores the everlasting debate of Jordan vs LeBron, offering Rich Paul's unique perspective on the matter. This episode is a rollercoaster of captivating stories, sports strategy, and deep insights into the world of agents, making it a must-listen for all sports fans. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Is the Jordan-LeBron debate ever going to end? It ain't going to end, but Bron's a goat. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice to another edition of club shea shea i am your host shannon sharp i'm also the proprietor of club shea shea and the guy that's stopping by for conversation on the drink today is one of the most powerful figures in sports he's a self-made super agent founder ceo of clutch sports his agency represents over 200 athletes in multiple leagues. He's negotiated over $4 billion in contracts.

He's an entrepreneur, a businessman, and he's from the east side of Cleveland to the top of the sports world. His newest memoir, Lucky Me, a memoir of changing the odds, Rich Paul. Rich, how you doing, bro? I'm good, man. No, don't even start.

Go ahead, Tell your story. Go ahead. I've been trying to get on Club Shay Shay, and you skipped over everybody but your dog. But it's cool. Don't worry about it. You know what? You know, I got my own brand of cognac. I sent you a bottle.

I know you got it. It's on my shelf. Yeah. You didn't let me in an investment, but it's fine. I don't take an investment. Don't worry about it. but it's fine. I don't don't worry about it. To come to get to where you got to come to where you came from and do it in the class and the manner in which you've done it and to help those coming behind you to show them I did it. You can do it. Cheers bro. Cheers. Thank you.

Let's start with the book, Lucky Me, a Memoir of Changing the Odds. Why was it important for you to write this book? I think it's important because we need as many positive examples as we can today. And oftentimes, it doesn't have to come in a figure. It can come in a storyline, a shared experience. And so this book is lucky me, but it's really about us. This is a gift from me to you in terms of whether you're youth or you came from a certain community. I think everyone aligns with it. The people that have been reaching out and the comments that I've been getting from all people. I was in the gym this morning. A man came up to me.

He had to be 70 years old. And he just was, you know, he was just floored by the story. And he was just like, man, you know, just more blessings to you I think that impact is really helpful, right and for me I didn't know how much I actually needed to write the book. I was Withholding that trauma that I went through for all those years and I didn't find out that I needed to release that Until I was writing the book. And so for me, it's not necessarily about sales, et cetera. If I can help one person change the

perspective that I started here, I'm going through this right now, but I see an example of somebody who also went through some of the same things and I don't have to finish here I don't have to give up hope on my life I don't have to give up hope on an opportunity that lies ahead I can take little bits and things of what I do have not so much focus on what I don't have but let me focus on what I do have and make the best of that just to get to the next step in life is what I deemed important today. And so I'm ecstatic for you to get through it all. I know you touched on some of it.

But, you know, I haven't been able to get through the whole book, bits and pieces, obviously, because it's just such an emotional roller coaster for me. But as we were writing it and as I was, you know, just going it telling it I did the audio book which was extremely emotional and at the end I'm not gonna spoil it for you. But at the end I you know, I I do something for my mother and It's tough In the book you mentioned that your dad owned a corner store convenience store. You worked in the book you mentioned that your dad owned a corner store convenience store you worked in the

store so by that stretch of the imagination you kind of you kind of get all rich i mean you got a little convenience store you know well we felt like that but that wasn't the truth okay because you got to remember what so the store was my was my savannah state okay okay that's where I got my curriculum mm-hmm that's where it was at right but I also just I learned math I learned customer service I learned marketing but the most important thing I learned was people right because there's all walks of life coming into that store and you know through the course out through the throughout the course of their day their energy is different.

So you had to be able to balance certain things. I had to learn this at a very young age. Everybody's not happy. Everybody's not sad. Somebody's had a bad day. Yeah, and there probably came your problems. I had to watch my father navigate his way through this to make margins on bossy baked beans

and cigarettes and beer and wine. That's not, those aren't big margins. You understand what I'm saying? to make margins on Boston baked beans and cigarettes and beer and wine. Those aren't big margins. You understand what I'm saying? But yet and still, his approach to opening that store every morning, how he treated people, whether you had a dollar or a hundred dollars, was important. And he explained to me, and there's a chapter in his book where we talk about just having the empathy for others where he taught me that this is your family this is these customers these consumers this is it's important to take care of

them right and to treat them a certain way and it really affected my life and really shaped me. Right. Because I would learn stuff from a textbook. But my education came from that story. Right. I think the thing is, Richard, is that empathy. I think empathy is being able to divorce your ego, set aside your ego and see yourself as someone else. And I think when people would like circumstances, it's easier to have empathy because your dad saw himself he's like I ain't really rich so he saw himself as some of these poor less fortunate let have less having than others and so he could empathize so was he that type of store owner that hey Mr.

Paul how you doing today hey Hey, Savannah. Hey, Ricky. Hey, Johnny. Ms. Sharp sent you down there, little Shannon. Yeah. You don't got a dime in your pocket, but you need bread. Right. You need soap. Right.

You need toilet paper. Well, Ms. Sharp sent you. That's all he needed to know. Ms. Sharp sent you. Because she already called before you got there. Right. You understand what I'm saying? So now when you get there, and then you may be standing there looking and he may say what you want boy

you said man can i have some of them uh cherry clans yeah go ahead take it you know and so that that exchange now you become shannon now you shannon from such and such now here come little rich you feel i'm? How my dad treated Shannon, Ms. Sharp's grandson at that moment, and now you're Shannon. You get what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Saved my life in a lot of ways. And people don't understand that. And so my dad would always tell me, you're once a man, twice a child. And I never understood what that meant and then he explained it to me right around the age on the cover of that book and he said as you climb as you born a child

you grow to become a man as you get older you start to become a child again and how you treated people as a man will have a direct correlation of how they treat you as you become a child again. And that always stuck with me. And I come from a place where your money didn't matter. Right. That don't matter who you are at your core is what matters. So despite my successes, I always carried that with me, even into the representation business, which you and I both know as a former player that don't exist. Right. And so I brought that with me and I, and it's, it's, it's extremely important. And I live with that every day. I read in the book and it seems to me, one of your proudest moments is that the family was

struggling. You didn't have a whole lot to eat and you go ask your uncle he gives you twenty dollars out of the register and you go and you go and hit a lick and you were able to go buy bread you were able to go buy a deli meat we call it lunch meat in the south y'all call it lunch me too okay okay okay okay okay so we call it this we call it we call it So you were able to buy some things. And at that moment, it dawned on you like, man, it made you feel good. I can provide. Was that the moment that you saw? Because we all have a purpose.

Yeah. Same thing happened to me. When I would get paid, I would buy, I would give my grandmother $10 or forty dollars that i made it wasn't much but it helped buy something absolutely from that moment on i've been a provider my entire life my job is to provide for my family yeah was that the moment that you said you know what rich paul is a provider yeah because me my brother and sister i got two older sisters and older older brother. I'm the youngest. But my older sister, Brandy, and my older brother, Miko, we lived together. Right.

So my mom wasn't there. Okay. My dad had his family. And so there was plenty of times where it was no one there. So we had to do things as a collective. How much older are they than you? My brother's three years older than my sister, five years old. But you know, seven and 12, that's, I mean, you know, that's a big jump in terms of responsibility, right?

Yes. And so I watched my sister babysit other people's kids and then, you know, take her money and I would go to the mall with her. That's how I learned fashion. My sister taught me about she she made that bug bite me for clothes and all that. And then I watched my brother do what he had to do. And so I had to play my part. had to do and so i had to play my part and so when i was able to do so like you said whether it was that whether it was shooting jump shots and not having no money and had to make it to win and going to to to get the you know i used to buy the juice the lunch meat because my mother taught us how to do this a couple pound of lunch meat the juice and then we would get the bread or whatnot you said you're going through the juice too quick so i had to get exactly i had to get the cooler because it was going too fast we had

to stretch it you know and so and so but but when i when i i felt like you said i felt good as a young kid and i'm going to i went to a school called upson in euclid ohio. I'm in the fourth grade. And I remember this adding to the calls in the fourth grade. And I didn't have nobody to say to you, you better be going to school. It was a decision that I had to make that I wanted to make at a very young age and so did my siblings. But there was also times where I used to walk the parking lot. It was a place called the Americana. My dad had a little, we called it the honeycomb hideout. He had a little honeycomb hide parking lot we had a it was a place called the Americana My dad had a little we called the honeycomb hideout He had a little honeycomb hat that we had to take over right because we had nowhere to go But I would walk and pick up a quarter here a dime here and it was a little bar

Next to the another apartment complex called the horizon house back then it was a little bar and grill and they would have these cheeseburgers and you and as a kid you can go in there before a certain time and order from the grill and the dog you know and that and and that's how i would eat some days you know and so all those things don't shape me i don't look at that as a negative thing and it was a struggle but i didn't know it as much right because i didn't know anything per se different. And because everybody around you was probably going through the same thing, you didn't think you were any different because everybody else was struggling too. Because you know what separates you at that point? You could be struggling and have a new pair of shoes on.

Yeah. Right? And it elevated you. So those things, I always had the things, right? But what I didn't have is that family infrastructure, that consistency in the household. I didn't have that. But what I was able to control, I controlled. Just because I didn't have X didn't mean I was going to sit in class and be a dummy.

I wasn't going to follow the class clowns. I wasn't going to do abacadabra on my test just because you know i wanted to be in school i didn't want to miss school and that showed a lot about me as a person the things didn't make me that was you know because i can makeshift my sister taught me how to makeshift things where you can go to t.j maxx and get a ralph lauren it may be a little defective yeah yeah yeah you know and and and we're just the same and so i learned those little things to feel good because you know when you don't have much especially back then the littlest things

elevated you make the biggest difference right and so that was that was important to me but i also knew then the responsibility of right from wrong at that at that point and that's what i was about to get to um you said okay i'm a hustler i roll dice trying to hit a lick shoot pool i shoot jumpers jumpers horseshoe casino race whatever you wanted to do, bet. You didn't want to do it, but you didn't go. A lot of times kids like, well, I didn't really have a choice. So I had to go this route. You never.

Not then. When I made those choices, I understood because I had the influence in front of me. So I sat on the porch until when I jumped off the porch. It was because of me. So I sat on the porch until it was, when I jumped off the porch, it was because of survival. Cause you know, when you have an entrepreneurial spirit in the hood, what's your options? What's your, what's your real opportunity, right? The lady who took that picture, we called her picture lady. She would, that was her, that was her, her hustle. She would have a Polaroid and she would come on the block and she turned our best outfits into pictures.

That was art. She could have been Dina Lawson. That was art. She could have been. She could have been Instagram, but nobody's come. Nobody recognized what she was doing and recognized the business of it and say to her, you ever thought about this and let me invest in that. Everybody on the right of me had a hustle. Everybody on left of me had a hustle. The person in front of me had a hustle and the person in back of me had a hustle. There's no careers. There's no great job. There's no equity positions. You get what I'm saying? There's no no VC there's none of that I didn't even know what that meant you understand I'm saying and so understanding what it means today is different but when I look back on it the

only difference between me or someone like me and anybody else in the world that has been an innovator a genius genius, you know, created something and built it and grew it. They had the opportunity, the option and someone willing to support. We don't have that. So we had to turn to what was placed in our environment. Now, some people did it and they did it with malice they did it with whatever that was never me my intent was always i always tried to find the right even within doing wrong if that makes sense yeah what's the most money you like roll you say you like

rolling dice so what's the most you you've made in a day and the most you've lost when what age because see because see you to understand so what age did you start rolling dice about seven or eight okay my dad taught me the reason why my dad taught me how to he taught me and my siblings how to gamble shoot dice and play cards it wasn't from a gambling perspective it was from a survival perspective because he said to us, these are the tools. These were his exact words. These are the tools that would allow you to get from here to here. If you get laid off on this job, to get to the next job, you're going to need some time. To get by, here's some things you can do to get by.

I turned it into my job, you know, because I got infatuated with it. Because it's quick, easy money. Because every roll, money's moving. And that's the thing. And so my dad would take me to the family reunion. And, you know, once the drinks are over. You hitting the cousins and the uncles up?

Oh, come on, Rich. Oh, I beat grandma out to money. It don't matter. Oh, come on, Rich. For real? You beat granny. You took granny money. You don't granny take the money out to booze her. She ain't got but like $5.

I beat your grandma out to money. My grandma out to money. Whoever got the money, I won. I'm beating them out to money. You don't have to worry about that. Because that's what it was. Right. There's no.

When you start gambling, there is no age limit. No. If you got money, you in play. You in the got money you in play you in play soon you put that money I know I didn't mean to do that. Could you know and when we was back in the day we used to catch the dog Oh, yeah, we had to cut that out. Yeah, because you know somebody doing this You see what I did I did I did like this this so when I was young we totally cut catching out okay there's no more catching right now that does a number of things yeah it opens the game up it speeds it up but then you got the slicksters coming in right so now you

have to match that sickness so now is it was, you know, it's a free for all. So we had spots, right? And so the best way for me to equate it, DuPont was like Madison Square Garden or the Staples Center. That's where all the, everybody, those were the big game. That was the big game. The average role in that game was probably about a thousand dollars a row wow you know and it's and it's the who's who you know everywhere so when you so as a young kid being allowed to be in that game you know that's like a rookie starting it's like a rookie making

all nba teams but you know rich when that kind of money is involved, people got them things on them. They got them switches. Well, they ain't had that back then. But that was necessary. But, you know, that you know, because you know, money, money does say to people, especially if I lose a big. Yeah, but but I'm gonna tell you something about these specific areas. And every now and then you had issues, but not like it would be today. OK, there was a lot more respect. Right. And every now and then you had issues, but not like it would be today.

Okay. There was a lot more respect. Right. But back then it was just different because, again, when I talk about the who's who, there ain't even no conversation. That's no go. Period. You knew that. That was a, you know, it was a respect and a rapport.

But at the same time, you know, it was things that got a little chippy here and there. But it started with these. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got enough of that. Yeah, you wasn't doing all that. You wasn't cleaning up. But again, but we had, so we had the hut. The hut wasn't, the hut was like, you know, the hut was like the United Center, right? And then Forest Hill Pool.

See, at Forest Hill Pool, that was that was again that's like the staple center or the or or or the garden because that's where all everybody come there man and they diamantes with the vogues on them they porsches they got the gator sandals on with a fresh pedicure and they pop a dom perry this is what i come up on so as a kid i'm seeing guys pop the trunk they got a case of dom perry on so as we get older when we get 14 15 i didn't even drink but that's what we wanted right okay they my friend cases of moed cases of dom you know going to blue point for dinner and stuff like that as young men because we because we're hanging with 45 year old men that's teaching us this and so i was never really allowed

to be a child per se but the game was given that's why the seat i sit in today i got to get a game because it was given to me been to a dice game recently no you don't have dice because you know some some players like to play cards and you know with their buddies Yeah, now you can't have outside cuz they're gonna try to sleep They're gonna bring the crooked dice up into the motor dies that they're never they're rolled a channel for all day I would love to in a in an environment cuz you know, you'd like to be the shop you'd like to be You know, we just love that. Yes, but it's just too dangerous. I won't do it today But but amongst friends if they would but

now all my friends they need their back yeah so you can't be you know you can't be you can't be shooting that for eight hours because you know we need they need they got to go out and score 45 you know you can't do that so it's a different dynamic now right but they love it right you know but but again but just the house the gambling house the characters within the gambling house the teachings within the gambling house see we had to learn by losing that's how we learn by losing these kids today they want to skip every step in the process and they don't work just win win win no it don't work they won't take it you know eventually yeah for sure you were raised by your grandparents and you said that when in the book I read in the book where you went to live with your grandparents, your granny was really strict.

Most grandparents are detailed. You were like all the kind of like, like, damn, what was the first time I ever had my own room? When I moved my grandma, Johnny May, it was the first time I ever had my own room. Right. You know, and I'm looking around. I can't believe it. But it's me. It's Johnny, my grandma, Johnny May, my grandma, Cam, and my Uncle Charlie. Now, they are, these are on my father's side.

My great-grandmother, all she ate was Wrigley's gum. All she ate was Wrigley's gum. So when I would come home from my dad's store, she ate spearmint, not Big Red because it was too hot. Spearmint, double mint, and juicy fruit. Because there wasn't no Winterfresh then yet. And my grandma Paul, the only thing she ate was peanut M&Ms. My uncle Charlie went to see his girlfriend one day out the week. He'd leave at 10 o'clock on Tuesday. He'd come back at 11 o'clock on Wednesday. He'd wear a white shirt, hat, Stacey Adams. You could eat off his car. It was so clean, but he was so detailed.

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10 o'clock, don't matter what the game, the game could be in overtime. When that clock strike 10 o'clock, if you're sitting outside my house, you can see him going up the stairs to get into bed. This is what, so I know, I don't use alarm clock right now to this day because my grandmother get up every day at 3.30 in the morning. Her mom, then she go downstairs and, you know, do what she need to do. She washing and she

cooking at the same time. Then I get up at 5.30. My dad's picking me up. We open the store at 6. That was my routine every morning. Wow. You said your mom struggled with addiction when you were a child. What impact did that have on you? Not having heard the mother, we know what the mother brings to the family, the matriarch. What did that do to a young Rich? Loss of emotion and vulnerability, you know, because in order for you to love something, you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable.

I had to wipe that out because it affected me in a way in which I love my mother, love my mother. When she was around, life for the party, you could smell the food coming from down the hall. Oh, you would have been you would have been so overweight oh my god cakes pies chocolate pie cherry pie peach cobbler banana pudding i mean it was the work it was unbelievable unbelievable but you know i didn't have that because i'm only getting that for two three three days at a time. I may I may be without it for six months, six, seven months at a time. And I just had to to understand. And the way my dad put it to me, it was a sickness. So I had to just understand it and move on. But it was tough, you know, because parent teacher conference. I look in the stands. I'm at my games, homecoming, you know, whatever the case may be.

I'm at my games, homecoming, you know, whatever the case may be. She ain't there, but I'm always, I was always in somebody else's car with their parents or at somebody else's house with their parents, you know, holidays and things like that. It was always that. And so it could break you, but it didn't break me. Mentally, I was able to overcome it and you would never know you would never know what i was what you're dealing with oh you would never you would never know that because i didn't wear it on my jacket you said earlier that some of the things that when you started writing this book you didn't realize how much trauma you had endured and as you started to write it became very emotional and in the audiobooks it really audio portion it really started was this the main reason why yeah because you know you relive in those moments

you get extremely emotional you know i lost both of my parents at such a young age 19 and 36. lost my mom at 36 lost my dad at 19. and you know just reliving those moments man it's tough and i know what kids go through today because there's you could be my dad wasn't present but he was present right he didn't live me but he was present my mother wasn't there but i had so much respect for that the time i did get to spend with her. I spent it It was never a place of didn't I never came from a place of anger? Yeah I never came from a place of disrespect and by the way

Even if I wanted to come from place of disrespect my mother could throw down so she ain't going for that anyway You gonna get your lip flat for sure. So but I never even came like that. You understand I'm saying and so But when I was writing the book and especially when i was doing the audio book when i got to the end where i write this message to my mom it really choked me you only get one mom man you get one mother and i try to explain that to my clients today the way way our industry is today, sometimes it becomes a joust amongst families. And it's very important for everyone within the family to have perspective and to have clarity. and to have clarity. The agent for many years had a black cloud over that title that was considered somebody that was shady or somebody that was, it was a gray area there. I wanted to change that. The fortunate thing is I have been able to change it somewhat. The unfortunate thing has been, and we talked about it, is that you still wake up every day.

I can't change the color of my skin. And as tough as it is with the industry, we make it even tougher on ourselves because there's still a competition. And don't get me wrong when you when you going out recruiting clients yeah you're competitive so but there's but you're not speaking ill you're not speaking negatively on someone and that's the thing to the best to the best man with best man woman win the job yes so i'm not but i'm not gonna say oh this person is this that person is that to try to conjure up. So the athlete feels some type of way.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, this is what I can provide. This is what I believe. I'm the best man for the job, my agency. And I think we can do the best job for you moving forward. And that's the point I was making when we talked about it, when we when we did first take. The point I was making was, of course course I didn't expect white agents to help to try to help me I would then that wasn't even expectation right right but

coming from where I came from the gang was given by the older guys right whether you decided to digest it or not was on you but I can't sit here and say that my coattail wasn't pulled to certain things to help me get through the day, get through the month, get through the year of survival. So that's all I know. I only I got to give that back. When I started, that wasn't the case. And I seen people online like, oh, well, you didn't say that. I'm like, you're missing the point.

Right. Did you reach out? Did you? I mean, I don't need to call any names, but did you reach out to any agent? When I first started the business, I talked to everybody because I wanted to understand why are things the way they are? And what I came to understand is ain't no different in the block. Amen for themselves. That's a that's a that that that has been placed upon us from a thought process But what happens is when you create those that psychology it stunts to growth and stunts to communication habits It stunts I should have came up under something that was already built right? That's normally how it happens agency They normally come up in a big agency and then they branch out on their own. I you started differently

I started out on your own. I started differently I started at a place but I don't even count that because there was no education there There was no there was no plan for me to become who I am today but What I started to realize is oh, you know, we work in a small industry, so things get back. Yes. The only difference is the kid on the cover of that book in that environment. When things get back.

Oh, we had we pulling up. You get I'm saying in this industry, when someone goes and and and speaks about you in a very derogatory way for two hours ain't that much to say now the business is the business competition is in all business but when you make it personal that's a different dynamic like primes and then you made it personal right but but we couldn't do that i you know i it's not in me i couldn't be trying to talk to a girl and mention shannon we don't that's no go around we don't we don't do that and so but i'm in this game where i left a game that was being played with no rules and no rest but you understand that yes but in the corporate setting it really ain't no there's rules

but the rest are assigned to the establishment in a lot of cases i had to learn that i had to learn narratives i had to learn how media works i had to learn all these things and i also had to learn that the smiles is not really the smiles, but I was used to that because I came from that. So I was prepared thoroughly for the position I'm in today. It's just that it's hard for me to respect it. That's all. Football season is well underway. The baseball postseason is here.

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Download Game Time today. Last minute ticket price, lowest price guaranteed. You love sports coming up. Loved it, yeah. Basketball. Your team won the state title. How good of an athlete was Rich Paul? On a scale of 1 to 10, depending on the year.

If you're talking about ages, 7 to 12, I was about an 8. Because everybody was just kind of the same height. Yeah, about an 8 or 9. Everybody the same height, same age. Yeah, I got the tape. Go look at the tape. I got's just kind of the same height. Yeah, about an eight or nine. Everybody the same height, same size. Yeah, I got the tape. Go look at the tape. Okay. I got the tape. Pull the tape.

We won the city championship. I won MVP. I did the interview. I thanked my teammates. Everything. Okay. But then once I got into high school, it changed. But it also changed because I didn't put in the work.

See, I'm down at the hut. They gambling. I'm missing something. You know, we got a big dice game. And we got a summer league game at Euclid. I show up at halftime. That ain't right, man. But, you know, I'm down 4,500.

I got to get back. You got to get back. Get back. Got to get my league back, bro. I had to. But so I just took the bitter with the sweet. I understood it, right? But as I talk about this, me not starting on my team didn't

discourage me from being a part of the team i was a part of a great team i had great teammates and i was on the second team every day in practice and we made the first team work sometimes we would beat the first team sometimes i would get beat the first thing sometimes i would get in the game sometimes i wouldn't get in the game at all right and i look up in the stands i sit my brother there some dot nobody in my family really cared about sport but my brother would be there sometimes my dude would be there off the block sometimes and support but it was okay because i understood my position i understood my role But when we leave out this locker room, now it's my turn to be the man.

Right. And that's all. Fair shame. There's never been no robbery. You know what I'm saying? It's all good. So after the game, you headed back down to the block,

go shake those things up. We headed somewhere. You know, I may have some... If my dudes came to the game, they didn't come to the game for the game. They came to the game because where we going after the game. Yeah, and we would go down certain places, but I respected my teammates.

You know, we – and I enjoyed it. I played against Mike Gansey, who's a – he's GM of the Cavs now. Okay. A lot of guys. We played against Steve Logan, Sam Clancy. A lot of guys that was top guys. We loved it. We loved the game. We played same – Sam Clancy played A lot of guys that was top guys. We loved it. We loved the game. We played St. Vincent St. Mary.

He played football, right? His dad. His son played for USC. They all played for a team called St. Edwards. I went to Cleveland-Benedictine. But Glenville was my neighborhood high school that was pretty good. But on the basketball side, it was pretty good. We played with

St. Vincent St. Mary every year. We had a big-time schedule. And I'm really close with a family in Columbus, the Shidestine family in Columbus. And I won the last state championship in St. John's and the first state championship in the shot on Ohio State's campus. You know, and so when you plan it, you don't know, and then you meet the family whose name is on the arena.

You know, all these things, just how life takes you. But I was a pretty good athlete. I will say this, and laugh if you want to, I'm one of the best shooters, though, even still to this day. And I take my chance. If I was in the one of 450, I'd be of the best shooters though even still to this day and I take my chance if I was in the one of 450 I'll be at the top. It's guys like me Steph clay Clay who Thompson?

Was gonna be dang This man talk about he shoot like if you just talk is shooting This is the class. I'm in y'all going out to the gun range that kind of show No, you know basketball into a real tray shooting this is the class i'm in y'all going down to the gun range that kind of shooting no you're talking about basketball into a rim trey darius garland i'm just talking about guys in the league right now that shoot the three really well i'll be amongst oh no i'm saying you said i'll be amongst it we're having a good see we're having a good old interview i mean it was going well i really the story that you was telling because it's very similar to mine. No, I'm just saying, but I'm talking about in terms of,

I didn't say dribbling, playing. I said shooting. That's all I said. The mere fact that you put in yourself, Rich. Well, if you're talking legends, you got to throw Reggie in there and Ray. It's all of us that got stuck in there.

My point is, you putting yourself in that group, I ain't got no problem with the names you mentioned. It's just the fact that your name is in there. In terms of shooting. I don't care what it is I feel good about it and I'm not drinking no yak I'm drinking water no you should drink some okay you used to sober to be saying something like that I need a reason why you said some bullshit like that I'm sorry I'm where you say it's a police is like that well I'm just telling the truth I put it why would you say it's a police? It's like that. Well, I'm just telling the truth.

Put it this way. You know, when two men got discrepancy, what's the next word? Bad. Exactly. That's all. That's all. Okay. That's the only way for you to find out. I want you to tell the people what you told us before we came on here.

I said, you play sports. You're like, you know, we'll get to that. So, yeah, I'm football. I can run some routes. Go ahead. Yeah, I was a good route runner. I played every you play sports. You're getting to that. So yeah, I'm football. I can run some routes. Go ahead. Yeah, I was a good route runner. I played every position, man. But I'm not saying I was the best.

Because I'm the first to say to you, no, I was not the best on my team. I wasn't the best on any team I ever played on. But you know what I was great at? Leadership. Having perspective. OK. OK. Right?

Corralling the guys. guys helping them understand the moment what needs to take place my practice habits i'm leading the leading the team when we run in the laps because i want i can respect that because i was expecting you to come out here and say yeah man i could have if i'd have grew like another five or six years i probably could have played nfa now we don't do no but one thing about it you got we don't do no bunch of lying we don't do no bunch of lie i ain't no need to be getting on you're talking about no line because all somebody gonna do is pull up the tape so i don't need to do none of that no so college high school you did what you like you said you weren't no dummy no pretty smart very smart attentive in class make sure i got my homework because at that point in time in high school did

you know kind of the direction that you wanted to go in when you became an adult not at all not at all i thought i was gonna be a pro until my father told me i wasn't in ninth grade i read in the book that you said you used to like drinking coffee. I did. And then your dad told you that coffee started your growth and you stopped. But you might have stopped a little bit too late because. Yeah, I was drinking black, drinking the coffee black. Yeah.

But do you later realize that coffee don't start your growth? I didn't know what to believe. You know, they can sell ice cream back there. Anything. I didn't know what to believe. And you started drinking tea. So you're in high school. You graduate high school.

What's Rich Paul's next plan? I wanted to go to college. I did go to college. I went to college, and my dad was still alive. My dad stressed education so much. I just wanted to further my education. Nobody in my family went to college. So I went to college, and I wanted to further my education. Nobody in my family went to college, right? So I

went to college and I did everything on my own. I remember picking the college I wanted to go to, going to guidance counselor, you know, going to my, you know, my orientation, right? And seeing the dorm and all that. I had no, my dad or mom didn't come on this stuff with me. I did it by myself, you know. But unfortunately, my freshman year of college, around September, my dad got sick. My dad got really sick. And I remember the conversation I had with my dad, because I was talking to him about some books I had to order. And he had this attitude about it. My dad never had an attitude about education. But he didn't tell me anything my uncle Joe had to tell me what was going on and my you know my

sister and so and it just it just happened so fast and so I had to transfer to be closer to my dad and I would that's when I went to Cleveland State and then um maybe some days I'll be driving to class and I would just turn around and go sit with my dad Cuz I didn't know how long I was gonna have with them, right, you know, and that was a tough tough thing for me, how did you balance that knowing that That Death is on the horizon for you. Yeah Well all the while but I still gotta live. Yeah, my dad used to always tell us though. I'm gonna be here forever

He used to tell us that, though, I ain't going to be here forever. He used to tell us that. My dad didn't shoot a coat anything because life didn't shoot a coat anything. Right. And the store was on that corner. And when you stepped out on that corner, you was a part of the environment. And so at that time, anything could happen. Right.

And so that's how he prepared us. And so it was tough, though. It was tough. But I got through it. But it was it was it was tough. But I I'm glad I did spend those days. And some days I would just go and just sit next to his bedside. your more house was your harvard that the knowledge that you got to deal with people in business on a corporate level on a higher side now all that information you didn't get from books you didn't get from a college you got it from the streets and dealing with people in the streets dealing with people in your dad's convenience yes yeah because to me and that's why when they brought up the rich paul rue i didn't think that made any sense especially working in the business that I'm working with in the service industry You don't learn how to service people from a textbook you learn that through experience, right? And when I was out there, but that was my experience at my dad's store dealing with people seeing the pitfalls and challenges And I realized something

You can learn so much from from someone telling you their failures because everybody want to know what's what should they do it's like but you also should want to know what you shouldn't be doing it's so much in in to learn from what not to do and so that's how we learn we had to learn the silhouettes of people we had to learn cars we had to learn how to just just diffuse uh situations like i talk about my friend cactus in this in the book and it was a situation this is my friend he lived on the next street edmonton woodside and i told the story not because today me and currently he's incarcerated but when he get out not because we

we won't be friends because we we were friends but as a young black man you don't always understand how to communicate right you don't want to be judged because you always are being what judged and so what that does is it causes you to act even despite you not wanting to act a certain way so i tell this story about what what took place with us and i had to understand the position that he was in and i had to pivot so therefore he wouldn't be in a position where he had to act even on something he probably would have regretted down the road. And so that's all I was, the reason I told that, because it's the same way today. Everybody's committing things, an act, because they don't want to be judged or they don't know how to communicate something to someone else.

And so, you know, a two-minute decision costs them 20 years of their life. Right. And it's too much of that. How did you decide to go into the line of work that you're currently in? It was organic. I love sports. I love fashion. I love people.

I played the game. I watched every game. I played every sport. Did Taekwondo, box, gymnastics, football, baseball, basketball. And all my friends play sports for the most part. And then I had another half that, you know, we was kind of split down the middle. And so as I was getting into the jersey business, I'm selling the jerseys, again, it's just sports and culture is all the same. It intersects. And I never planned on being an agent, but I always had this ability to connect with people.

I knew the game. I know the game. I could talk football. I could talk basketball. I could talk baseball. And so as I started to see what representation looked like, I started to understand that it was, in a lot of ways, it was surface deep. There was a perception that the agent should look like this. And then from that perception, there was an opportunity given to others. Right. And so now that game was started to be played. Your agent has to look like this. There was a narrative that it has.

He had to be a lawyer or whatnot. And then on the flip side, they have a relationship with the shoe company or whatever. And the shoe company understands the players coming in. They know what they have and what they don't have. They've given that information to one or two or three individuals only. And then here they come. And because of the perception of them and how they looked, the families deemed them to be what? Educated, better position, smart, all these different things. And then when I got behind the walls, I'm like, well, that's fool's gold because they don't know our culture for sure. So when I'm doing a shoe deal, if I have a signature athlete, there's some things that you need to know to better position that person. There's a reason why certain decisions was made for certain athletes because that representation that representation didn't know cool right right

didn't know culture but we tend to skip over that and not value certain expertise because it's not packaged a certain way see this is packaged when you look at the best brands in the world their packaging matters right our packaging automatically was discredited from day one so now i had to work around that right so started clutch you says okay i'm gonna do this i'm gonna start my own company yeah what was your thought process behind starting your own company? I was so motivated. I was in a position where, you know, you could just feel when somebody trying to play you. And I wasn't that type of guy. I was never dependent of somebody. I was always I knew how to get on my own. Yeah. And so it wasn't no challenge for me to leave the agency I left.

And I wasn't really like, you know, they would tell you, oh, it was planned or repositioned. Like, that's all bullshit. No, it wasn't. It wasn't planned. I had an issue. The issue wasn't being resolved. wasn't being resolved. And oftentimes when someone quote unquote feels like they wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Gave you an opportunity. You should forever be... Indebted to them. Indebted to them. i'm like no you can you i mean i understand the idea of the opportunity but it didn't it came because i was somebody's friend we had to we have to learn to start being a slave to loyalty yeah and i'm like somebody

gives us an opportunity and we feel forever indebted, although things are not going the way that they should. No, I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah. But but but my thing is, you know, the opportunity of of what entirely, you know, I'm saying because at the end of the day, yeah, there's an opportunity. But what's the plan? Right. There was no plan. The play is just all good as long as somebody else's hat i never want to be in that in that position and and it was all good i played the role i played the role and i was doing my thing right i started to get talent i started beating guys out and I wasn't even a registered agent and I was beating guys out right and they didn't know how nobody really knew how

but I had a connectivity right and so when I when I seen that I can actually do it I decided what and what once I said I can actually do it and this didn't feel good and I'm seeing what's transpiring. I'm like, I'm out. It wasn't it wasn't a plan. It was May conversation. Shit. By by by August, my mind was already made up.

Regardless, I didn't I didn't care if LeBron stayed. I didn't care who stayed. I was out and I had had and I had the mentality that I was going to build it. It just so happened that they left with me. You know, that's what you know. You know what you know. I'm not breaking. I'm not interrupting your normally scheduled programming to break news to you. You know what's being said. You know what was said. He got LeBron James. So it wasn't that he was good at what he does, it's that he just had the best player in the NBA, and everybody says, okay, if he's that LeBron trust him,

I'll trust him also. Well, that's BS, because it actually goes the other way in a lot of cases. It's more challenging, at least for me. Now, when they have him him or if you got this person it's it's a different dynamic you can use your client list and it's to your benefit it's to your benefit but when it's me and it's my client list or i got the the stars it's it's a detriment that comes with that. People don't understand. It's like, oh, you had LeBron, it should be easy. No, it's actually harder. You know why it's harder?

Because we come from a place where there can only be one king. Our environment teaches us to always be competitive. There's no collaboration. There's no communication. There's no connectivity that's there. There's no compounding of anything. So it actually becomes harder. And by the way, I've lost clients because of this. The person next to them feel like they're in competition with me. So, no, I'm not even in that space. You're not in competition with me. space not in competition with me the position I'm in right now I could do anything for anybody within reason and I want to do that I'm not I'm not I'm not competing with other agents I'm not competing with young up-and-coming people that have a guy that want to be positioned and empowered I want to empower you, but they're putting out there, oh,

well, you know, Rich ain't going to do this. Rich ain't going to do this. See for yourself. I don't need the peanut gallery. See for yourself. And if there's a conversation that makes sense and if it makes business sense, then we can do business. But at the end of the day, it's actually, it works for me.

It works against you. It works against you in a lot of ways. Now, in some cases, it does work for you. Don't get me wrong. When you have the talent that we have at our company, you can't deny that. But yet and still, unfortunately, we have to break down the psychological barriers of I come from it when I was young selling

candy and pop and beer and wine in my dad's store some people chose not to patronize with us because in their mind if I spend my money with rich then little rich get the Jordans and I don't have them so God was already preparing Because in their mind, if I spend my money with Rich, then little Rich get the Jordans. And I don't have them.

So God was already preparing me for this position I'm in now. So when I see it, it don't even bother me. When do you remember? Did you know who LeBron was when you first met him? And what was your first impressions when you did meet him? Yeah, our high schools played against each other every year. So myself and Maverick, we played against each other every year. It's mandatory. Football, basketball, baseball,

our high schools played against each other every year. Bron wasn't yet Bron. They had won before, but he wasn't on the cover of Sports Illustrated. But I know every kid. I know every kid because I go to games, all that. And my impression was he asked me a question about what I had on. My energy was nice enough, not because I was looking for something in return. That's another thing.

Our environment teaches us if you give me something, I got to get something in return. That's why we never build anything. That's why everyone wants to be the talent because the talent brings forth fortune and fame. No one ever thinks about building or no one ever thinks about playing a different role within the ecosystem of physical therapist, analyst, GM, et cetera. There's a lot of roles to play within the ecosystem, but that's not the popular role to play. And that's why everybody can't be Shannon Sharp. Just can't. Everybody ain't going to wear that yellow jacket and go up in Canton. But my jacket could be a different.

It may not be yellow, but that's for the Hall of Fame. But I got a jacket on. You understand what I'm saying? So that's always been my mentality. Why is it such a problem is that, you know, Phil Knight, Jeff Bezosos you look at some of the greatest men in the world wealthiest men in the world women have had someone believe in them but it seems to be a problem that lebron i don't know and you don't have to address this i don't know if he invested money but i know he invested an opportunity yeah lebron never gave me a dime and that was the that's what they wanted

to put out there right but they didn't say it about Jeff Swartz. They didn't say it about Arne. Tell them they didn't say it about mark Bartle Sting they didn't say those things right right they what you think happened with them They just what you think happened you get I'm saying and I respect those guys But but that's not what's being said, right? You get I'm saying is when they have the top player that player don't have to own a piece of their business for them to represent them that players represent them they're represented by that that that player is represented by that person because that person is deemed to be capable of doing the job of doing the job. Of doing the job. Same for me.

Same for me. I want to know this. After Dan Gilbert said what the hell he said, he wrote what he wrote, said LeBron quit, put that thing up in the paper, how in the hell did you convince LeBron to take his ass back to Cleveland?

Legacy. It's about legacy, man. We come from a place where two brothers shoot at each other and sleep in the same bed. What are we going to set that for? We going to put that over your legacy? When you first told LeBron, hey, LeBron, check this out, bro.

For your legacy, I think you ought to go back to Cleveland and win the title. What did LeBron say? What was his exact words to you? He was open-minded. He was open-minded, but he wasn't the first person i had a conversation i had to have a conversation with you know we were close so i savannah and unglo and mav and randy we had a kind we talked about it and but this was but again when you talk about this is my job this is the role i play so before you talk to Ron you talk Savannah talk to glow you talk to ma'am in addition to talking to the right I talked to everybody right how does Savannah feel

well no man we've been down like four fat tires for so she understood where I because I have a perspective on it right And I don't make it about me. Right. What I'm saying is in terms of legacy. Right. Right. And we identified the talent that was currently on the team. And it wasn't about winning.

I didn't know they were going to go to the finals in the first year. That was all I was saying was there's an opportunity. And if you're able to win, it's a wrap. Right. Nobody forget anything else. If you win a championship for the city of Cleveland and the Cleveland Cavaliers, I don't care what anybody get on any media platform and say it don't even matter. Right. From that point on, it's all uphill how

receptive was his mom gloria coming from me she understood it she understood and she gonna support what he support right she understood it so like a mom to me so i when i come i barely come but when i do i barely come to the table with anything, I barely come to the table with anything. When I do come to the table with something, they know it's serious because I'm not coming to the table just for the sake of coming to the table. I'm coming to the table. I've thought this through. I've strategized it. It makes perfect sense and so on and so forth. And they allow me to do my job. The conversation of leaving cleveland going to la whose idea was that well the conversation leaving cleveland going to l.a i mean and i talked about this before and i you know people just go crazy but the conversation was pretty simple in terms of what is it that you want to do if you want to stay here let's stay here but if you want to go somewhere your brand is here you only got so many options right we wasn't going to new york even though new york you know was was was an option was an option? Was an option. But ultimately, he had already had a place in L.A.

And I had the opportunity of spending a year here because I had KCP here and getting a better understanding of the organization. Magic and I talked a lot. I knew Rob just through throughout the years. And his family wanted to be in LA and so ultimately it became an easier choice but when we started doing the process of elimination it's only there's only so many places to go and you know LJ gets bored about things or what not and people take that out of context but I'm just saying in terms of and I said to him now the only thing is we already you came back from 3-1 you didn't brought a championship He didn't been the eight straight finals. I think he went to a straight

Yeah, he went to a straight for Miami for Cleveland the rent you coming down off that mountaintop Now, you know, we're good to go to LA It's all about championships But all you need is one. You don't need 15, because you're not going to have the time to do that. But if you can get one, you know, and

you made the decision, and that was it. Like, it's not... Again, when I come to the table with something, I don't come to the table that often. So when I do, it has some substance to it. So what is your take on the player empowerment?

We see players being able to, I'm not happy here. I'm going there. I'm not happy there. I'm going somewhere else. I'm not happy. There's the James Harden situation. Yeah. What's your take on the Harden situation?

Well, I mean, in James's case, I think from what I understand about him, what he's said publicly, I know James, known him for a long time. It's a personal thing that he feels as if something was promised, was positioned for him. And it's different. I don't know if it's totally basketball because I know James loved the game of basketball. It's different. I don't know if it's totally basketball because I know James loved the game of basketball. And, you know, there's there's there's some things that probably could have took place prior to. But that's up to them. I don't represent James. You know, but but, yeah, it's a tough situation for him man but ultimately when you're in these type of situations the one thing that's very important that i think people have to monitor and understand is your value right you want to keep your value up and so you think about the value coming from the extension that could have been

in brooklyn to currently now well he's never gonna get that money we don't know we don't know where that where that is rich he's not getting that money what was it three for me to say i don't know where it is i don't know but i'm just saying i i don't see it i don't i don't see him at that age wanting out of houston wanting out of brooklyn wanting out of philly and somebody trusting him to give him that money you've represented a lot of guys and you get close, you build a relationship. But how hard is it for you to part ways with a guy? A guy says, you know what, man, this is just going to. It's not that hard. It's not?

No, because at the end of the day, you have to understand you're not going to be able to please everybody. And sometimes we can work a very, very thankless job. Sometimes you could do everything right and it's not good enough. Because, again, our athletes are being taught a Certain way they're being taught Everybody should be doing stuff for you for free They're being taught that come play for my a you team. I'm gonna give you this your your parents can fly on us They get so now you build

when it comes to doing business and it's a talent, right? So now if anybody has an entitlement to that talent, that's like the steering wheel of the car. So now well what are you doing? He's scoring

the points. What are you doing? We don't only work on July 1st. We work all year round but it's not looked at like that so you have to start to distinguish and yourself from who actually values you and values your expertise because treat me the same way you treat that person sit behind the counter at the louis vuitton cash register they ain't giving you no discount you ain't coming to them you throwing everything on and you because it costs more and it's a thing it's just statute thing you want to

show that you spent 200 000 at the store right but then when it comes to someone who your percentage they want to cut you up your percentage in half yeah that's that doesn't that don't make sense to me right but but this is what's happening in the space right and for those that for those that lead with that because there's a lot of companies that lead with that they do it playing on the ego that i'm so good that they want to work for less right because I'm so good But when you think about life nothing else in life works like that if you need heart surgery you you want discount You want a bed I'm just asking I am you got club Shay Shay your production crew you want you want to just get some Guys off the street. hell no again but only in sports is where they can feed the ego so much that it causes you to have bad business practice

now people may say oh you're just saying that it's self-serving no it's in anything anything you do in life that's worthy there's no shortcut to that right you go up in Hermes you can't even buy nothing this is my no matter how much money you got this is my point so that's what I'm saying but you but but when they can't get it there they go and pay what double and triple yes you get what I'm saying? They play over retail. So that's, I, my thing is just about respect.

I mean, I can't say what other people do and don't do. It's just, but for me, it's just, it's, so it's not that, it's not that hard when,

if it's not working out, then it don't work out. I'm going to get you out of here on this one. And you're the closest to the story. So you would know. What is with the vitriol of the older players towards lebron it seems like and it seems like a lot of the old players don't want to give these younger this younger generation the credit that they deserve yeah but it seems like

a lot of the ire is pointed at 23 why do you think that is it's really corny to me i will absolutely and i like i said you know and when out there, you deal with certain things. It's layered, in my opinion. You got to remember, when LeBron came in, a lot of guys were still in their prime. And all the attention turned to him. In 2000, all the attention, boom. $100 million contract. Real $100 million.

Not that fluff that'd be going out today i'm talking about a hundred million dollar contract never dribbled nba basketball in nba they ain't ever seen nothing like that you know jay-z sending a private jet when he's in the high school we're going up to new york every weekend every other weekend whatever when you could you know i'm saying all these things they wasn't and so quite naturally in the, you know what I'm saying? All these things, they wasn't. And so quite naturally in the neighborhood, you develop what? You develop a sense. An envy.

It's much easier for you to be like, man, that's some cold, man. That's player. That's real player, man. I appreciate that. I'm proud of you. That's the hardest thing to do. The easiest thing to do is what they do. this you know you have and then now when you give that to a media platform and now it's even trickling down to some of the younger players just they purposely don't say his name in things oh i played this because

of these people but again if you everybody didn't always had a mama mentality the mama mentality came after Kobe was really done Then all of a sudden everybody had drama mentality because the mama mentality everybody frowned upon it because I think the ball home Yeah, but when he was playing Because I was there we said he wasn't hanging out with none of these guys you know you give them saying do but I'm not surprised because i come from it i wish it was different but i'm not surprised because i come from it but what impresses me more is that guy don't do unto those what they do to him his door has always been open

every time you see somebody man what's up show up, show love, etc. Even when there's just friction. Is it too nice? Too nice. Too nice. Because Jordan gave the players, he played it with the button. He like, I am fooling with y'all. Kobe really didn't fool with it. But you got to understand some familiarity breeds disrespect. And I tell him that sometimes. They can walk past somebody that don't even speak that make that person want to speak to you more

if you speak to that person every time it becomes and that's that's the treatment that he gets sometimes you get i'm saying they get on draymond for being his friend it's craziness right right but but but again this is this is not about that's not an athlete thing. That's a people thing. And that's why I said what I said when we were talking on first take. We have to break those. I'm not going to do one to those others as they've done to me. That's not just not what I come from, because you don't want those habits created. So is the Jordan LeBron debate ever going to end? habits created so if the jordan lebron debate ever gonna end it ain't gonna end but bronze ago jordan ago but bronze ago one guy changed again one one one guy got gold horn the other guy got platinum horns yeah i got a little platinum in here but it's like platinum and gold and then

bronze all platinum lucky me a memoir of changing the odds Rich Paul appreciate it thank you thank you all my life been grinding all my life

sacrifice hustle pay the price wanna slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life I be grinding all my life

all my life been grinding all my life sacrifice hustle pay the price wanna slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life I be grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Muscle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life I've been grinding all my life.

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