Club Shay Shay - Roy Jones Jr.

Episode Date: December 14, 2020

On episode 13 of Club Shay Shay, Shannon welcomes in boxer, rapper, & actor: Roy Jones Jr. Roy Jones Jr. speaks about his recent exhibition match against Mike Tyson, revisiting the fight from all angles. He also goes in-depth on the Nate Robinson vs. Jake Paul undercard, detailing the mistakes Nate made and how he can improve for the future. The conversation touches on topics from across boxing history, highlighting Roy Jones Jr.’s legendary accomplishments within the sport. Roy talks Shannon through his Mount Rushmore of boxers, explains why the ‘70s heavyweight division was the golden era of boxing, breaks down what he’d do differently if he could revisit his career and defends himself as the greatest, most dominant boxer of the 90s. This podcast is a must-listen for casual boxing fans and aficionados alike. Roy has tons of unfiltered stories from his decades-long career, which has been spent in and out of the ring alongside other legends. #DoSomethinB4TwoSomethin & Follow Club Shay Shay:                                                                 https://www.instagram.com/clubshayshayhttps://twitter.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.facebook.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.youtube.com/c/clubshayshay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I am your host and also the proprietor of Club Che Che. And the guy that stopped by the club today to have a drink and some conversation is a boxer, rapper, actor. He's a four division champ in the middleweight, super middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight division. Roy Jones Jr. All my life, been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, pay the price. Jones Jr. RJ, what's going on, bro? I'm good, my brother. How you feeling? Man, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good.

So let's get right. Let's start forward and then go backwards. You're just coming off of fighting Mike Tyson on Saturday. What did you hope to accomplish by taking on this exhibition? I don't know how you exhibition fight, but what did you hope to accomplish by taking this fight exhibition? I don't know how you exhibition fight, but what did you hope to accomplish by taking this fight? And did you get out of this what you thought you would? Yeah, what I hoped to accomplish was I just wanted to give the fans something to look forward to, giving them some form of entertainment at a really down time

because the COVID has everybody in such a bad place, wearing a mask and no, I mean, you just can't appreciate people anymore. So the COVID has us in such a divided state that I feel like this fight or exhibition would help give people something to do, remind people of the old times, bring people back together, and also get some good entertainment out of it. Is this something that you would consider doing again, not necessarily maybe fighting Mike, but would you consider fighting someone that fought in the super middleweight

or fought in the light heavyweight division? Would this something that you would consider again? I probably wouldn't consider much because I don't think many things could supersede the numbers we did for that one. And if you're not doing something that's going to supersede those numbers, then it's not

really worth doing however there is a kid out there we're not a kid there's a guy that by the name of anderson silver who's a mixed martial artist also a legend who if you put two legends in the ring together people do pay to see so it's very possible that he and i could get together and do it but everybody else that people don't really care because, I mean, you got to have two sides. What made me and Mike so good was that you got two legends on opposite sides. If you got two legends on opposite sides, then it's great. But if you got a legend and a guy that maybe I wish he was or wants to be a legend, it's not necessarily going to work so well.

What you're trying to say, RJ, what you're trying to say, if you fuck anybody other than Mike Tyson, it ain't gonna be the same. Unless it's Anderson Silva, but if it ain't Anderson Silva because he's an MMA legend, it ain't gonna be the same. But he ain't got hands like Roy. That's what I'm saying. That's the point, though. But because he's an MMA legend, this deal

will pay to see it. If you remember, there's two legends. These other kids ain't got hands like Roy, but they're not really legends, so that's why people ain this deal will pay to see it. Right. Because there's two legends. Right. These other kids think he ain't that way either, but they're not really legends. So that's why people ain't really going to pay to see that. So why I'm going to waste my time doing that to give them an opportunity to have another shot at me for no reason when it's not going to pay me enough to where it's going to be worth my while. So why do it?

But you hear a lot of these other heavyweights calling out Mike. Evander Holyfield, Buster Douglas. Do you think this is something, if Mike were, I don't know how serious Mike took this fight, but do you think if Mike were to train seriously, get serious, he and Holyfield or he and Buster Douglas could do this thing and it would be presentable? Yeah, it'd be presentable because Mike's still just as dangerous

as he always was. People want to see any time Mike get in the ring because they know how dangerous he is. So yeah, it'd be presentable because Mike's still just as dangerous as he always was. People want to see any time Mike get in the ring because they know how dangerous he is. So, yeah, it'd be presentable. But the problem with that is that the other guys have more to gain than Mike does. Right. You know what I'm saying? Mike's already a legend. Everybody, if you say, okay, we're going to hold it up against Buster Douglas.

I mean, for us, as boxing people, it's a good situation. But for the fans, they were like, okay, who cares? You know what I mean, for us, as boxing people, it's a good situation. But for the fans, they were like, okay, who cares? You know what I mean? So it's like you got to be very careful because it's got to be something that the fans want to see. Not trying to say that nobody is better than nobody else, but it's got to be something the fans want to see. You feel me? I mean, both of those guys, they both beat Tyson in his head. You know, it's like I had a guy tell me the other day, well,

Thomas, they want to fight you, Tarvis say he want to fight you. And Hopkin say he want to fight you. I said, that's strange. Because Tarvis last fight, he won against me. Hopkin last fight, he won against me. So why don't people want to see them fight each other? Why they both got to call my name? You understand where I'm coming from?

Right. What that tell you? They're trying to get a come up because you're still the guy. You hear me? So it's like, because you were the man of the day, they all want to use you as to come up because you're the guy. You hear me? So it's like, because you were the man of the day, they all want to use you as to come up when they don't realize, what are you getting from this? In our prime, y'all couldn't touch me.

So it's like, what am I getting from giving y'all shots, free shots at me? I'm going to pay y'all. I got y'all want me to pay y'all, give y'all as much as I get for putting on a show against me when I'm the reason people watch me show. You the attraction. Duh.

Mike said, are you surprised Mike said he was high during the fight? Do you think that was more because he didn't take the fight serious or it had to do something with calming him down? Mike just trying to stay calm. He don't wanna bite my ear cuz no one will bite his ear back. So Mike just trying to stay calm. He don't want to bite my ear cause no one will bite his ear back. So Mike just trying to be calm, do things the right way. Right.

Get this out of hand, biting and kicking and scratching cause that can happen too. And he know both of us can go that route. So he tries to stay calm, be political about it, give the people what they want to see, but leave it all on a positive note. And he did that.

He left it all on a positive note. He thought did that. He left it all on a positive note. He thought about kicking me once, but he didn't do it. So I thought about kicking him back if he would have kicked me. But, you know, he thought about it. Because I could tell he was getting frustrated. But he didn't do it. But because of smoking, that's probably why he didn't do it. You understand me? Because a ride would have broke out had he done it.

So it's like, I thank God he held it together long enough for us to get that done. And it was all good. What was your approach in taking this fight? I mean, it seems like, okay, I'm going to hold, I'm going to try to get a couple of shots off. So going into this, what was Roy's strategy in this fight? Tie Mike up, don't let him land out. One single right uppercut. I don't care what the referee say,

keep that right arm tied up when you get close to him. Do not let him hit your mama child with no right uppercut. You know what I'm saying? He hits everything else. Everything else, don't worry about it. Do not let Mike Tyson hit your mama's child with no right uppercut. Roy, you believe in your prime when Roy Jones was at his apex, when nobody could see it.

Do you believe you could beat Tyson in his prime? Ain't anybody else can put it in front of me. Hold on, Roy. I get it. Look. What you've done, only one other fighter has ever done. Bob Fitzsimmons. You talk about a middleweight that won a light heavyweight title,

but he did it in reverse order. He was a middleweight that won the heavyweight and then won the light heavyweight title, but he did it in reverse order. He was a middleweight that won the heavyweight and then won the light heavyweight. So what you've done, no other boxer, only Bob Fitzsimmons has ever done to move up a middleweight, super middle light heavy and win the heavyweight title. But Roy, in his prime,

you thought you think you could have taken Tyson? In my prime, the question would have been, can Tyson deal with me? Hold on, Roy. Look, Roy, I love you. You were my dog, Roy. You were my dog, and you had hands, you had speed that was unbelievable.

You was very unorthodox. A lot of people ain't throw no lead hooks. Ain't boxing the stance that you were in. Tyson, you understand he was the most feared, he might have been the most feared man in the history of the boxing, in the boxing community. And Roy Jones at 168.

So what weight do you think you need to be at in order to fight Tyson? When I asked for him, I meant what I asked for. I was 200 pounds. And I wanted him right at the end when I was at the apex of my career because I still was reaching for things. Because you got to remember, I'm the first guy and the only guy, Bob Thurston didn't do this. I'm the only guy to turn a professional as a junior middleweight,

which is 154 pounds. Correct. And capture the heavyweight title. Bob Thurston didn't do that. He turned professional middleweight. Right. With that being said, when I won the heavyweight title, I still was on the go because I had to come back

and recapture the light heavyweight title or I didn't do what Bob Fitzsimmons did. See, I did it after I won the middleweight, super middleweight which wasn't around when Bob Fitzsimmons was around. Light heavyweight. Then I won the heavyweight but then I went back and recaptured the light heavyweight title because I felt like that's what Bob Fitzsimmons did. So that being said,

when I won the heavyweight title, I still was on the up climb trying to grab things because I wanted like that's what Bob Fitzsimmons did. So that being said, when I won the heavyweight title, I still was on an up climb trying to grab things because I wanted to do exactly what he did but add something to it. So had I fought Mike Tyson in 2003, after I won the heavyweight title, I don't see no way in the world he would have beaten me. You couldn't even hit me back then.

My legs still were good. I hadn't lost the 25 pounds of muscle yet. My body hadn't started deteriorating on me yet. You couldn't touch me. You fought Ruiz, I think you weighed, what, 193, 195? Yep. 193. 193.

So do you think that was the beginning of Roy starting to not be Roy Jones because you went up to 195 and then you had to come back down and you started shedding that weight? And you had to come back down and you started had to shedding that weight and had to cut the muscle that's when it began that's when the demise began because I cut muscle I cut 25 pounds of muscle loss not just regular weight muscle my body never did that did nothing like that before ideally all the money fights were probably at what 16, 168? There was Tarver and Hopkins.

There was really no money. There's really never been any money in the light heavyweight division, unless you're talking about now. So basically, you had to go back down to get the paydays because the only heavyweight you wanted to fight was Tyson. Only heavyweight I wanted to fight was Mike Tyson. And, like I said, I was under the impression that Bob Fitzsimmons wanted middleweight, light heavyweight,

heavyweight and recaptured the light heavyweight title. So if I won, I had to go back and recapture the light heavyweight title or I didn't do what Bob Fitzsimmons did. Right. That's what my first, wasn't even about the big money fights. The big money fight was why I would have fought Mike Tyson. I said, the only heavyweight I fight is Mike Tyson. Why? Because it's a big money fight and it required me to stay here longer.

Meanwhile, if that don't happen, I got to go back to Shady's weight and go reclaim the light heavyweight title, or I can't say I did what Bob Fitzsimmons did. On the undercard, Nate Robinson fought Jake Paul. What was Nate's mistake? And if you were advising him if you were training nate how would you prepare him says okay if he wants a rematch how would you prepare nate to take that fight and to win first of all it's not a fight that nate should even take because nate is about five nine five ten 181 pounds basically soaking wet jay paul was a10", 181 pounds, basically soaking wet.

Jay Paul was a pull-down 189 pounds. I mean, it came from 210 to 189. You understand me? So one guy knows how to pull a weight and how to play the weight game. Other guy has no clue of it. So you're already smaller than him. Then he's a pull-down. It's like people say, they looked at me and Mike and say,

oh, y'all about the same size. No, we're not. You see Mike's head? Mike is capable of towing way more weight than I ever could think about towing. Right. Mike can carry way more weight than I ever could dream of carrying. You feel me? Mike say he lost 100 pounds. That means he was 320-something.

And he got into 220-something. Right. So he's a much bigger figure than I am. Same with Jay Paul and Nate. Nate is way too small to be in a boxing ring with a pull down. Jay Paul, it just didn't, when I saw him at the weigh-in, I said, oh gosh.

I told my wife, this is not going to be pretty. She said, why? I said, he's too small. It just ain't fair. He's too small. You don't know what he up against, but he's too small. And plus, you have to look at it though also, RJ, is that that 181, that's a bumped up 181 nate probably walked should be walking around at probably 170 that's my point and he's finally got himself pulled down 210 to 180 net this is just you just put yourself you just took yourself out the game so in other words

besides fighting a man much too big for him he didn't have the proper tools. Explain to a lay person, Roy, explain the mistakes that Nate made inside the ring. Forget the fact that he shouldn't have been in there to begin with, but what were some of the mistakes that he made that caused him to get knocked? One of the things is you don't get hit and get angry and take off running and arresting the guy just throwing punches because that guy's already set knowing that you're coming because you're angry and he's gonna wait and time you and that's kind of what happened right he made a few boxing mistakes that because he's inexperienced

in boxing that a normal boxer would make but guy hits you and hurts you yeah you take a cap don't run back in you move around for a little while get your head back together or you box more to make him think you're okay when you know you're not but you'll be smart and stay away from around for a little while, get your head back together. Correct. Or you box smaller, make him think you're okay when you know you're not. But you be smart and stay away from contact for a little while until you get all the way back together. Then you engage and get contact again. He engaged right away. And you can't do that.

See, for me, Nate treated this like a street fight. Like you said, he tried to rush in. And maybe in a street fight, he can beat Jake because you can scoop him. But in a boxing match, you can only throw these things here. And so now he's rushing in with his hands down. That's the first rule. Street fight, no matter the fight, keep your hands up.

That's the last thing the referee tell you. Keep your hands up. Protect yourself at all times. Protect yourself at all times. Yep. Man. He didn't do that. He lost it.

He kind of got emotional and ran in there. Teddy Atlas was upset at the California Boxing Commission, said they should not even sanction this fight. Do you think if they did sanction you, you think they should have had a headgear? Well, no, that would not have made a difference. No, it wouldn't. So you think Nate should just give this up?

Let this boxing ain't his thing? No. No, Nate don't have to give it up. What you got to do is you got to get in the gym and get some real training, first of all. Okay. You got to start fighting in your weight class because that's why they have weight classes.

You must get into your own weight class. You can't be fighting guys 10, 20 pounds heavier than you, especially when they have also more experience than you. can you imagine me fighting a guy that's 10 pounds lighter than me and don't have the experience to box right it's just wrong so it's like you fought a guy that was not really more than 10 pounds heavier on scale he's 10 pounds heavier than you on the scale might be 10 pounds heavier than me but if you look at it i put my back to the corner like the coach told me to do. My people know I can throw it and just set me down

in the same corner. I'm like, whoa. You understand me? Because he's 10 pounds heavier than me on the scale, but he's used to carrying much more weight than I am. Right. So his 10 pounds is more like 30 pounds. Right.

I know you remember this. You remember Too Tall Jones, who the great defensive lineman for the Dallas Cowboys, thought he could put, this guy was 5'8", and this dude carried Too Tall Jones. And I tried to explain to people, I say the mistake some great athletes make is that they think because they're

great in one sport, they can just pick up and do another sport. It's not that simple, Roy. Not at all, brother. People don't understand. It's different muscle memory. It's different technique. It's different. Everything is different. I mean, we're all great athletes and we can do the other sport, but you can't compete at an elite level in every other sport like that.

Right. Only one or two people could do that. You understand me? One or two. And that's far, far and few in between. One or two people, one or two people could really do that like that. But here's the thing, DeRoy. You've been fighting. How will you start it? When you, when your dad gave you, gave you gloves and you, One or two people, one or two people could really do that like that. But here's the thing, Roy. You've been fighting. How old were you when your dad gave you gloves?

How old were you, eight, nine? Ten. You were ten years of age. Okay, so from ten, you're building up those reflexes. You're building up those instincts. You know how to pivot. You know how to turn. You know how to block punches. You know how to make punches miss. You know how to pivot. You know how to turn. You know how to block punches. You know how to make punches miss.

You know how to walk guys into punches. What makes somebody think they're in their mid-30s, they can just pick this up and say, oh, yeah, I can go do that? At a competitive level, I understand hitting the mitts in the gym. Because there are people who don't understand the everyday reality of boxing. There are people who think all you got to do is get in shape and learn how to punch and you can fight. That's not true.

There's a lot more that goes into boxing than most people realize. And the problem with it, Chandler, the problem with it, brother, is that there's a lot of people that actually box that don't understand boxing. So you know there's people that don't have nothing to do with boxing

that are going to get confused. And see, the thing is, you watch somebody and they hit in the midst, and they throw in the midst into your hands, and they swear. They swear, oh, boy, I got hands. Oh, boy, I got hands like that. You'll kill us. You'll kill us.

See, you know who comes. That's that Floyd Mayweather syndrome. They see Floyd and his uncle and his dad was on those mints, and he dug it, and he do it all that behind his back. And people are like, oh, yeah, I can do that. No, you can't. And as easy as it looks. So the fight game now,

give me some of the fighters that you enjoy watching. I enjoy watching a lot of them. I love boxing and I enjoy watching anybody that goes out, takes it serious and works hard to prepare themselves to come to a point where they can fight so you got giovante davis you know you got i like lomachenko tiffan lopez um my guys mike mike william kevin newman um chris eubank jr i mean glenn i got so many of my guys i like to watch because i like to see them go out and do things that i teach them to do but heavyweight wise i love I love Tyson Fury always.

I even like watching Anthony Joshua. It's like Canelo, Spence, Crawford. I mean, man, the list goes on. Anybody that's at the top, at that top echelon, I like to watch them box because I like to see the things that they do well, the things they need improvement on, and I just like to analyze because it keeps you sharp. How does Deontay Wilder beat Tyson Fury?

Because I look at it because Tyson Fury is a boxer. And what you call him is a puncher. And I don't know if he has the skill set because he's trying to sit up one shot while Tyson Fury is boxing circles around him. The problem with that is that people don't understand that you cannot be one dimensional and dominate for a long time. You have to have other dimensions to your game. What people didn't understand about Mike Tyson was that Mike Tyson is a puncher,

but Mike Tyson also is a puncher who knows how to set you up for his punches. That's why I told you the referee can talk all you want to. He not hitting my mom's child in the right up cut. I don't care where we at, what period, what time it is. He is not hitting my mom's child with a right uppercut. I don't care where we at, what period, what time. He is not hitting my mother's child with a right uppercut. I don't care what the situation is.

So because my mom's child knows that, my mother's child knows how to watch for all the traps, all the things he does to set you up for that right uppercut. So he's not like, wow, he's not just trying to hit you with one right hand. He got a lot of other stuff that he'll set you up and hit you with until he can sneak that right up and cut on you. You understand me? So it's like you have to know how to play your game.

It's like chess. You got to know how to lead people into where you want them to go so that you're going to ambush them. And Tyson knows how to do that. Wilder don't really know how to do that that well. And you know what? You're saying something very interesting because when people look at Mike Tyson because he had that

knock one punch and most heavyweights have one punch knockout power and they see that just decapitating people but Mike is a very technical body a boxer because he did something that I watched him and I went back and watched some of his fights. How he banged you twice with that hook to the

body and then throw the uppercut on the same hand. Yep. And I already know that. If his hand is free, if I feel it right there, I take off running. Don't even stand up. If he hits you right here, I take off running. I kept my hand like that as much as I could. But if you feel that, take off running.

Don't even look. Soon as you feel it, go. Don't even think about nothing else. So in other words, whatever hand he hits you with, you take it out running the other way. You better believe it because you know the uppercut coming. So if he hits you with that right hook to the body, it immediately goes the other way because the uppercut is on the way.

But like I said, he had various different ways of setting up his knockout punches. He didn't just throw them and knock you out with them. Knock you out with them. He set them up. Wilder don't really have a lot of setup. He doesn't wait for you to make a mistake. One mistake. If he gets you to make the right mistake, he can land it. it if you don't make that mistake he has a hard time landing it and fury knew how to not make that mistake because

you gotta remember fury also eluded the greatest one of all of them which was uh the crisco brother of all the right hand punches like that right he eluded crisco straight right hand he took it away from him and that's why Kisco couldn't beat him. Then he went and did the same thing to Wilder. He took his right hand away from him. So he's a master

at taking away the one punch if that's all you get. Right. Because he keeps sticking that jab and Wilder didn't have a counter. So in order to be elite,

like you said, you can win the heavyweight title, but to have sustainability, you got to have more than one punch. You got to have more than one punch gotta have more than one one uh one one one trick in your own dicks you gotta have a lot of you gotta have more in your arsenal and to me Tyson Fury that's why I told Tyson Fury about four or five

years ago if you go get yourself together you can beat all of them because Tyson has a bigger um repertoire than most of the heavyweights has he has more skills than most of them got he don't have the most power but he got more skills than most of them haveweights has. He has more skills than most of them got. He don't have the most power, but he got more skills than most of them have. And people that don't understand boxing won't understand it. I didn't realize how big he was, but that is a giant of a man. 6'9"?

With that kind of reach? With that kind of... But like you said, he got skills. That's the other aspect, though, the height. Also, you got to remember, Wilder used to punch people straight out in front of him or punch them down on them. It's harder to punch up than it is to punch straight out or punch down.

You got to punch up to hit Fury. That's what threw Chris Gould. That's what threw Wilder off. Let's talk about Floyd Mayweather because before your reign, after your reign he kind of took the mantle you were fighter of the decade you did what you did and then he came along he started out I think as a a lightweight and moved up to the junior middleweight 154 because I think he took Dayla Hoyer's belt at 154 but he wiped out everything from 140, 147, 154, 130, 136,

I think is the weight class. 135. 135? Okay, 135. Yeah, I think he started by 130. He might start at 130, I'm sure. I believe you're right. Talk to me about Mayweather.

What made him so great? He's one of the best defensive fighters you've ever seen, and he's smart. He don't take no stupid risk. He goes out, he fights, and he fights to get the W. He made the W become very relevant because he always fought to keep that W. So when he started fighting to keep that W, it made him

become even more smart. And now he used that because he was a very smart businessman. He used that W to make people want to see him lose that W. So he was able to be smart and pick and choose what he wanted to do because everybody wanted to see that W go away. And he knew that. So he played on it. But he's a very good fighter, very talented athlete, a very smart guy, and a very smart fighter. People said, well, he didn't have, well, he can't punch. He don't got power. And my response to them, I said, well,

why don't people just run in on him? If he ain't got no power, ain't nobody trying to run in on him. That's not true. You saw what he did to Ricky Haddon. He showed you he got power not in one hand, he got power in both hands. He just don't choose to fight that way. Right. He got Gotti. I mean, when you look at the people that he got out of there before,

like you said before, the W became the end all, be all, if you look at what he did at 140 and 147 and 135, he was carrying the lightweight. He carried that lightweight division. He carried the 140 after O'Gardy. The guys he put knockout, he took them out. So he definitely had power in both hands. So for people to say he can't punch, that's not true. Now, he's a defensive fighter, didn't use a lot of punches,

and didn't throw a lot of punches. Okay, I can understand what you're saying there, but to say he can't punch, you're wrong. He can punch in both hands. Defensive fighters, you like Mayweather you like sweet pea because i don't think sweet pea gets the credit that he deserves for being his defense for being a defensive fighter that's great he was a great fighter but his defense was impeccable also the bad part about it is his defense was better than floyd's but floyd's offensive power is better than sweet pea's so for his harder what sweeta has the best defense.

Okay. I'm going to put you on the spot here. This is 80. Give me your Mount Rushmore boxers. It doesn't have to be all heavyweights. It doesn't have to be middleweights, this and that. Give me your Mount Rushmore. You get four boxers, Roy. You get four.

Four? I'm taking me out of it, okay? And I'll save myself because I'll be at the top of Mount Rushmore. So I'm going to take me out of it. Okay. Put Muhammad Ali at the top. Okay. I'm going to put – I'm going to probably put Shuey Robinson second.

Okay. I'm probably going to put Salvador Sanchez third. Okay. And I'm probably going to stop there because after that, I can take Leonard, Duran, Chavez. Hagler. I go any kind of way after that, but them top three, that's my top three. I can take any of them after that, but them my top three.

What would you say is the golden era of boxing? The 70s. Why? In the 70s, we ourselves go go to air boxing because everybody in the head weight division, if they were still around, you probably take the top 10 in the 70s and insert them, each one of them in today's time, and each one would be head weight champion right now that they still. Because that's how durable, that's how rugged, that's how well gifted in boxing

most of those guys was. Everybody in the top 10 back in that time was heavyweight champion, quality or character type of fighter. So you're looking at Ali, Ken Norton, George Foreman, Larry Holmes. George Frazier. George Frazier. Pick what you want to pick. Pick what you want to pick.

I mean, one of the greatest fighters of all time that people need to go look at, and I've said two, I watched a few fights that I will watch over and over. Like, I watch Hearns Leonard all the time. I watch Leonard Durant a lot. I watch Hagler Hearns. I watch Hagler Leonard. But one of the best, some of the best fights,

because that's some of them, but the list goes on and on. But to really get a good appreciation of boxing, appreciation of boxing, you always have to go back and watch George Foreman versus Ron Lyle. One of the best heavyweight fights ever. Then, one of the heavyweight fights that also touched me a lot as an older kid, as I was growing up in boxing, I became a Larry Holmes fan

after watching Larry Holmes fight Ken Norton. Because I know how hard of a time Ken Norton gave Ali every time he seen him. Every time. For Larry Holmes to come and deal with that same thing and overcome it was really exceptional to me and it made me become a Larry Holmes fan. Larry Holmes was shooting that jab. Larry Holmes didn't use that jab as a range finder. He was using it to do some damage.

Yes. And I'm not a cop. So there's a lot of fighters. I mean, there's really no American fighter. And people ask, well, where are the American heavyweights? They're playing defensive end or they're playing basketball in the NBA. That's where they are. But you look at a lot of divisions.

You look at Bud Crawford. You look at Bud Crawford. You look at Errol Spence Jr. You've got some young fighters. You want to see the Errol... Obviously, Spence fights Garcia. But do you want to see the Errol Spence-Bud Crawford fight? I've been begging for the fight. Begging for it. And the problem, like I said, I understand

what your two promoters and how that goes. But it's like, you know, for me, man, it's like the difference was, everybody's entitled to run it the way they want to run it. I learned from Ali and other old timers, the way you played the game was you play king of the hill. King of the hill means you go to the top and you fight whatever come up the hill. You got to defend against anything that come up the hill because you fight whatever come up the hill. You got to defend against anything that come up the hill because you are the king of the hill. When you get to the hill and start saying, no, I'm going to fight that one, I'm going to fight that one,

that's really not king of the hill no more. But I understand. So different people did different things for different reasons. I didn't fight for money. I fought for greatness and for a legacy because I wanted to be king of the hill. You understand me? So I took it differently than some other people may take it.

Other people fought for different business reasons so they didn't do it well i did it because they were looking for ways to maximize their cash but so everybody but everybody got the right to do how they want to do it so you can't get mad at them for doing the way they're going to do it when they time come they're supposed to do it their way my time though i only knew from what the old times they taught me and i thought I was supposed to play king of the hill. That's what I did, and that's what the problem is now. They can sit there and have two guys that everybody thinks are the best in their division, but they can still play left side or right side.

One stay over there, one stay over there. No, no, no, no. That's not how that go. We need to see. They don't stop at the AFC championship and NFC championship and say, okay. We got to get, no, no, no, no, no. We got a Super Bowl. We got to go to the Super Bowl

and be one of these champions the best, right? Right. So do you believe they got too many belts now? No, it ain't about too many belts. You can have all that. You can have all that. You can have too many belts. It don have all that. You can have all that. You can have too many belts. It don't matter.

As long as when the time come and there come a top guy over here and a top guy over here, they must come have a Super Bowl. We must see the Super Bowl. We can't just stay there with an AFC champ and an NFC champ every year. That's too many champs. We got to bring all that to the middle at some point. But here's the thing though, Roy. If I can, okay, yeah, I might

can fight you and make $20 million. But if I can just stay over here and make $10 million and fight people I know I can beat, why would I risk it? That's what the problem is about. And that makes sense if you're in it for the money. But see, me, I can't sleep at night knowing there's another team over there undefeated and I ain't

going to see them yet. That's just who I am, though. I can't sleep like night knowing there's another team over there undefeated and I ain't went to see him yet. That's just who I am, though. I can't sleep. I need to go see. If you that bad, I need to see. You got to show me that bad. I can't sleep. I don't care about the money. I can't sleep knowing that there's an equal but opposite after I

got to see him. I'm going to ask you to construct the boxer and I'm going to give you some characteristics and you tell me the boxer you want to pull this from. Hand speed. Sugar and lemon. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily

with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media.

That's Patrick Claibon, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day.

Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Knockout power. Tommy Harris. Athleticism. Roy Jones Jr. Quickness.

Gary Russell Jr. reflexes Muhammad Ali size Muhammad Ali boxing IQ Will Sanchez hmm

defense Wilford Benitez Sanchez. Hmm. Defense. Wilford Benitez. Discipline. Marvin Hagler. Accuracy in which he landed his punches. Julio Cesar Chavez. Wow.

Roy, you grew up in Pensacola, and I don't know if a whole lot of people know this, but there are a lot of great athletes that came out of Pensacola. Very good friend of yours and mine, Derek Brooks. Emmitt Smith is from Pensacola. You went to school, if I'm not mistaken, with an ex-teammate of mine, a friend of mine, Reggie Johnson. What is it about Pensacola? The water.

The water is something in the water or y'all swimming in the water? It's got to be something in the water. I mean, you got to think about it. You got one of the greatest pound for pound boxers of all time. You got NFL leading rusher. You got one of the best linebackers of all time you got this one of the fastest runners in the world justin gatton i mean come on bro be just everywhere i mean fastest hands fastest feet i mean what i mean what else could it be from the time your daddy gave you those gloves

when you were 10 years old is that the only thing that you ever wanted to be? Did you ever want to play, say, I want to be a football player. I want to be a basketball player. Well, I'm going to tell you a story. I did play basketball, and I did like basketball, and I did want to be a basketball player as well, but boxing was my heart. I'm going to tell you why boxing was my heart. I played football first, right?

Right. And I got to where I played quarterback. And when I played quarterback, we had three plays because we had a small team. We didn't have a lot of players. So we had three players, three plays, three real plays that were going to work the rest of the plays. Everybody wasn't going to really do it right,

and people were afraid to really run the ball. Quarterback roll out left, quarterback roll out right, and quarterback sneak. And I was the quarterback. That's too much hitting on me. Exactly. But what would happen though is guys would get a good lick on me and then they had big enough teams that they didn't have to play both sides.

Our team was so small, we had to play both sides. We had to play offense and defense. Right. So some of these guys would play offense, I mean play defense, but they wouldn't play offense. So I would get pissed off because you play defense, you hit with a good lick. Well, my time for defense, you owe them the side of the coach. I'm like, no, put him back out.

What are you doing? I want to get my get back. I need that back. You feel me? So I realized that, you know what, as you get older, you're not going to get your get back in football. So I need somebody to get my get back in right now. So boxing became very appealing to me so you grow up through you go up through the ranks and you go to the 88 olympics and i remember it uh in seoul i was in college uh as a matter of fact i was a

junior in college and i remember it it seems like yesterday and you're doing your thing you outland the guy in punches almost three to basically oh it was us three to one outlanding three to one and you're standing in the ring and you just know you just know you won this fight like i'm about to be the gold medal i'm about to be sugar ray leonard i'm about to be muhammad ali i'm about to be all these greats i'm gonna be an american hero and when you hear them call his name, what was the first thing that goes through your mind? I was sick.

I said, this may not be the sport for me because anytime you can run a race and finish first and you still get second, something wrong with that sport. You know what I'm saying? So I immediately was like, you know what? Maybe boxing ain't for me. Did you have a conversation

with the guy that you beat that ended up because it wasn't Korea. He was Korean. Did you have a conversation? I told the interpreter, I said, ma'am, do me one favor. She said, yeah. I said, ask him, does he think he won? And she didn't know it, but he would have said, yeah,

I was going to get on that head again, right? But she asked him, and he said, no, I know I didn't win. He asked me, he said, no, I know I didn't win. And he shook my hand. So after that, I couldn't do that. I really was ready to get his head but when he said no what was i to do it ain't his fault he didn't judge the fight and now he told me he know he didn't win i can't get mad at the man because he told the truth but had he not told the truth

there's gonna be some teeth missing so you filed a protest with in the with the protest did you think like you know what they're gonna go back and look at these scorecards they're gonna look at all these points i accumulated they're gonna look at what he didn't do oh they're gonna they're gonna make this right they'll make it right and i'm gonna be okay even though i didn't get my arm raised in the ring at the time i'm still gonna be able to hear the anthem play and i'm still gonna be a champ like sugar ray ali frazier and some mark breland some of the other greats? No, I never thought that. Once they announced the decision, that was it.

It was done for me. So after that, I went and I think the United States Olympic Committee filed a petition, but I never did anything because I took it as what it was and that was that. And I felt like, first, I felt like it was miserable for me. I should quit boxing and just let it go. But then when I got home, I realized that it could have been a blessing in disguise because what was funny was that when I got to the airport,

nobody was looking for the guys that won the gold medal. They were looking for the guys that got cheated and got the silver medal. And that blew my mind. So it showed me right away how quickly God can take your worst nightmare and turn it into the biggest blessing of all time for you. Because in my worst time, when I thought of all time for you because in my worst time when i thought i was at the lowest point of my life i sacrificed nine years got robbed of a gold medal and i thought that was it for me i was more famous than anybody else on that olympic team

even the guys who won the gold medal and that was god showing me that you stick with god And that was God showing me that you stick with God, keep faith in God, he can take the worst and turn it to the best for you. Roy, you won the Golden Gloves in 1986 at 138 pounds. And then the next year you win at 156. How do you put on 18 pounds of muscle in a year? Well, I won at 139. When I won at 139, I probably should have been fighting 147 because i was coming from 152 making 139 okay so when i finally move up and since i'm at 147 i'm already

coming from 156 making 139 so i'm gonna go and fight at 156 don't stop at 147 i'm gonna have the same problem i got at 139 i gotta lose six less pounds but it's the same thing. Nine less pounds, whatever it was. It was eight less pounds. I got to lose eight less pounds, but I still got to lose almost 20 pounds. So why not just go on with 156? So I went all back at 156. So that was your natural. So at that point in time, you're just basically walking around. You're just training.

They ain't got to drop no weight, got to cut no water, got to do nothing. No, that ain't true. I still had to cut weight to make that. So what would you say at that point in time, what would you say your walking around weight was? 168, 170? Probably 168, 170, yes. So when you fought at 168 at super middleweight, what were you walking around then? 190, 185, 180? 171.80. My daddy made me go down to 147 for the Eastern Olympic trials in 88 right? Right. I fought the first night I made 147 I fought the first night I went after the fight

after the fight and got on the scale guess what I weighed? 157. 165. What? You rehydrated? I got all the way back. And I got all the way back down to 140 and a half that next morning. Wow. So you're like, you know what? I ain't finna be cutting. I'm not finna be cutting 25, 30 pounds. It ain't gonna work because I do this every night.

I said, I won't have no energy to fight in the Olympics with. So I can't do this. This is work because I do this every night. I said, I won't have no energy to fight in the Olympics with, so I can't do this. This is too, I can't make it. You went from 147 to 165 after you fought. That means I was 168 when I fought. Right. So you had basically, you rehydrated and put on 20 pounds.

Of course. Wow. What was it like sparring with Sugar Ray? Man, that was one of the greatest times of my life, one of the greatest adventures of my life. And it was like, you know, you come up fighting against your idol or you're sparring with your idol, and you want to see what he got, but you want to see what you got too.

So I was doing pretty good. And he got tired of me kind of doing my fast work. And he set me up and landed a good hook. Bam! I said, okay, that's a good shot. But that's all he was ever really setting up with. The rest of the time, I was pretty much in control. So I was happy because I felt like through it all,

he was able to set me up with one good shot. The rest of the time, I was getting the better shot, so I felt really good about myself. So at that moment, did you know, you know what, hold on. I'm sparring with Sugar Ray. I'm getting my legs, I'm getting my shots off. He caught me with one,

but I feel I'm getting the better of this. Is that when you knew you was going to be a world champ? No, I knew that already before that, but at that point, that kind of solidified it. Your boxing career, what would you have done differently? You was going to be a world champ? No, I knew it already before that, but at that point, that kind of solidified it. Your boxing career, what would you have done differently? I don't think I would have done different with my boxing career. After I won the heavyweight title, I would have came down.

When I beat Todd the first time, I would have stopped for at least a year or two to let my body recuperate and get myself back together. Because that was the only step I made by not staying out of boxing because I was always the guy that my own self came back to hunt me. Because if you want to fight, I'm going to fight. That's just who I always was. I don't recognize nothing. People say, what are you doing?

I don't care. That don't mean nothing to me. Nothing scares me. I'll fight anybody anytime. I never care. So that's what came back to hurt me, because I didn't realize the effect that that 25 pounds of muscle was going to have on my body. And that's the one thing to hurt me though, because I didn't realize the effect that that 25 pounds

of muscle was going to have on my body. And that's the one thing I would have did differently. Because if you look at it, up until that point, up until that point, Roy, it wasn't even close. The one loss you had was a disqualification on Montell Griffin. And then you came back and just carried it. They couldn't, they couldn't touch me.

I came back and demolished him. They couldn't touch me. So I came back and demolished him. You did? You did. One round. First round, second round, it didn't go long. First round. We fought the last round. And I told him that for the press conference,

I said, all I'm about to do is we fight round nine. And that's what I did. So the Reeves fight, you won 93. And you're going to go back and you're going to go back down to 168 so you got to lose your 20 pound because you look solid I mean your body looked like you like you're naturally 195 200 pound man so you look like you like I'm like damn Roy carrying that like he's been there so you look like a 200 You look like an old school heavyweight because they weren't like these super heavyweights that came to be the Klitschko's

and the Lennox Lewis's and all those guys. The heavyweights in that time was 195 to 205. Ali, I think, weighed 205. Joe Lewis. Those guys were your size, what you fought Ruiz at. So I'm saying, damn damn Roy looked like an old school heavyweight. Yeah, problem was the first time I ever lifted weights in my whole life and I put weight, I put muscle on from lifting. Yeah. I had never done that before my whole life. So when I

took weight off I had to take that muscle that I lifted to put on. That was true muscle I had to take off and that's what did it to me is that why boxers really don't because boxers don't really lift weights do they they shouldn't make it what it makes you slow watch your boxers look those down contraction muscles cause a little bit more bulkiness and boxing needs to be at a reach you need a long reach to be a good boxer most boxers want to hit out in the end so that they don't have to put their face in harm's way. So you got to do it with your arm length.

Use your arm range to get the most. You don't want to have to have a, unless you Tyson type. Tyson type, he can left foot because everything he does is looping. He throws uppercuts. I got to tell you, the uppercut I'm talking about,

the hook to the body, all those looping punches. So most of the best punches are thrown like this with the borders on. So left and right won't hurt him. He ain't extended on anything. Everything is here. Exactly. He doesn't extend. But most people

that are long range guys, they need to be able to extend. And weight lifting doesn't give you that same advantage. So if you take a year off or a year and a half, let's say you take 16, 18 months off to go back down to 168 an easy way you think tarpa beat you hell no tarpa nobody else that's 75 no

hell no i beat him when i had no energy i beat him when i was really a dead man walking i beat him come on bro i mean i'm mad i beat this man i 25 pounds. I ain't got energy to eat, and I beat you. And you think you would whoop me if I was in my regular feeling? No, come on, bro. No. But, you know, it's what it is. I don't argue about it, but no. They couldn't tell you.

Listen, the difference between me and Floyd back then, when people said about how great we were in our prime and our eras, I didn't lose rounds. I didn't lose rounds. I won the whole fight. You know, I ain't probably losing rounds if I fought Monty Taylor Griffin the first time. Yeah. And that's because I chose because I knew he was a counter puncher. I knew he was a counter puncher and I was a counter puncher, so I just had to wait.

I had to wait until he didn't get tired, give him a few rounds, so he'd keep working to weigh him down. The song I came out to on the first fight was, patience is the virtue. Why? Because we're two counterpunches. We're looking in the mirror of one another. So you just got to let him wear himself down. Once he wears himself down, then you take him out.

And that's what was supposed to happen. But since they disqualified me, I said, you know what? I'm going to do it the way I know I can do it then. I just walked through and get it. And that's what I did the second time. But the first time, because I wasn't the guy that wanted to go do that, I was the technician. My thing was working, working, working.

No, you're going to lose a few rounds because you got to make it work. So I'm going to lose a few rounds for a change. Why? Because I'm fighting another counterpuncher. Counterpunchers and counterpunchers don't make for good fights. Right. Because they both weigh the counter. Somebody needs to be the aggressor.

I got to push the issue. So I had to push the issue, which was gonna give him a because he's gonna counter what I do when I put, when I be the aggressor. Right. But I'm gonna wear him down, take him out there in the deep water, then I'm gonna drown him. That's why he took the knee,

which I didn't know whether he was taking the knee or what he was doing, because the referee didn't say stop. But that's why he took the knee. It wasn't because I hit him in the heart, he was drowning from that pressure. He was in that deep water. I knew that, you understand me? I knew that. So, me? I knew that.

So, but the referee didn't say nothing. So I tapped him. The referee said nothing. So I hit him again. Then he played like he was out. I said, okay, if y'all want to play, let me show you what it look like if I hit him for real. So second time, I showed what it look like if I hit him for real.

Nothing against him. He did what he was supposed to do. But it's like, only reason, that was the only time I even know that I probably lost a round because I'm fighting another counter puncher who is a great counter puncher. He's a great counter puncher. Then he got two wins over James Toney. Not many people got wins over James Toney. You got James Toney.

You beat James Toney. I'm the master counter puncher. I said he was a good counter puncher. I said I'm the master counter puncher. Of course I beat James. You fought Bernard Hopkins in 1993 to win the middleweight title. And at the time, Hop B. Hop was 22 and 1. What do you remember about that fight?

That he was too slow. So you knew he couldn't beat you? I told him. I told him. I told him when the press comes. I said, listen, I seen you. I know you good. I've been watching.

Only problem you're going to have is some two-fakes. That's the only problem you going to have. So you ain't never seen nobody with the speed I got. Now, you can keep up with the speed I got. You got a chance. But I don't think you can do it. I told him this at the press conference. Nobody heard him because I said it only to him

with the two big bodyguards there. I said it to them three. I said, y'all ain't with me. Y'all can't do nothing. But him, he got a problem because he can't deal with my speed. And that's what it was. And then you fought James Toney in 94, which turned out to be the fight of the year.

And James Toney was crushing. See, people look at James Toney now, and they laugh and everything. But James Toney can fight. James Toney, he used to have a career come in shape to be ready to fight. Best fighter I ever fought to this day. As far as boxing skills, best I ever fought. Best as Tyson is the strongest I ever fought. But to this day, James Toney, best skill to skill boxer I ever fought. And you beat him unanimously.

12 rounds. I mean, you just basically unanimously, 12 rounds. I mean, you just basically carried the whole fight. I mean, when you look back at your career, not only were you winning fights, you were dominating some of the greatest fighters. Bernard Hopkins was arguably the greatest middleweight, and you carried him. James Toney was, if I'm not mistaken, a two-division champ,

and you carried him. Montel Griffin, you carried him. Toney was pound for pound a bad man on the scene at the time, inside and outside the ring. What was your strategy in fighting Toney? He had the boxing, because he fought behind the shoulder, make him keep turning, keep fighting behind that shoulder to make him have to keep turning.

I knew he was good if you stayed right in front of him and had a good right hand. He knocked people out in round one, he knocked you out in round 12 because he had a really good right hand. But that's if you stay right there in front of him. If you get around that shoulder, there was nothing he really could do.

And that's what I did all night. So the shot that people remember with the James Toney is when you did the cockfighting move. You put your hands behind your back and you were squatting. And you was almost like trying to walk him into a punch. Yeah, I put him to the side like a chicken, hold the feathers up, I did it like this, and he cocked it.

So I did it again because I knew he was cocking, now I caught him with the hook off of him. I mean, that's the thing, Roy. I mean, when people look at your fights and they talk about it, they're like, what he did, probably no other boxer can do because it was so unorthodox. But I studied animals like the cock, like, like the fighting roosters. I studied things

that God put it in a natural. God put it in a fighting rooster to fight naturally. So you study those things. You gotta be good because that came directly from God to those animals. Nobody developed any animals. Nobody taught those animals how to do that. They developed, they got, they got that directly from God. So what better to learn from than something that got it directly from our Creator, you understand me? So I would watch them always because I wanted to learn different things that they did, learn techniques, learn moves, and what had happened was I was at a point in that James Hunting fight where everything I had tried, he had neutralized. Nobody had really taken over.

So it was a point in the fight where somebody now had to take over. So I said, you know what? Let me use my rooster move and see what it helps. So I did it, and he did it. I said, oh, I got it now. I did it again, and he did it, and I caught him. And that shifted the momentum to my favor, and I kept it all night. So that gave you the confidence.

Once you caught him with that move, that gave you the confidence to my favor and I kept it all night. So that gave you the confidence. Once you caught him with that move, that gave you the confidence to like move in and like assert yourself even more. No, I had the confidence already. I just knew that that was a point where momentum, somebody had to take the momentum. I had football games have momentum swings. Yes.

At that point, somebody had to take the momentum. That gave me the momentum to continue doing what I did, but to do it on a high level now. And in 1995, you became the first boxer in CompuBox history to go around and not have a fighter land a single punch on you. Benny Pazdielsa, a good, reputable fighter who may go down in the Hall of Fame himself one day, right? Right.

Roy Jones Jr., the first fighter in CompuBox history fighter who may go down in the Hall of Fame himself one day, right? Right. Roy Jones Jr., the first fighter in country box history to go a complete round without getting a punch landed on him, fighting a very well-known opponent. And y'all asking who the best defensive fighter is again? Don't even talk about it. Did boxing at that point in time seem easy to you? Boxing was easy to me because i was in shape i was always ready i had no knee ailments i hadn't i hadn't lost that kind of weight yet it was like walking around that's what i do and i was simply the best that's why i didn't win

a whole first person never go a whole round without getting hit and And they say, oh, he wasn't a good defensive fighter. Well, how the hell you gonna hold three minutes without getting tapped? Are you not a good defensive fighter? Well, what you are is what they call pound for pound the best. Because your offense is impeccable. Your defense is impeccable. Your speed is impeccable.

Your power is impeccable. Your footwork, everything's impeccable. That's what makes you pound for pound the best. That's in your prime. You were fighter of the decade. And there was some, you know, not a whole lot of fighters can say they were the fighter of a decade. Okay, you can be fighter of the year.

You can have fighter of the year. But over a 10-year span, Roy Jones Jr. in the 90s was voted the best fighter of the decade of the 90s. And they were right. They got it right. Roy, you, hold on.

How are you going to fight? You got to fight at night, and then you go play basketball. Buckets, that's what we do. You know what I mean? I mean, what I do is every day before training or after training, I play basketball anyway. So I'm like, you know what? Dion and Barry played football and baseball the same day.

So who would ever expect a boxer to go do another sport the same day? They tell you they don't really want you walking around much the day before you fight. They're long gone to spend in Japan. Basketball, are you serious? And me, because I did it on a daily basis i said you know what i can do it and i didn't do it against somebody that was just a nobody the guy i did it against went on to capture the wbc super middleweight title and held it for three years after that

so when i got did that against a bomb i did that against a top uh high class world champion type athlete so in other words what you're trying to other words, what you're trying to tell me and what you're trying to tell my listeners, Roy, is that you made great fighters look average. That's what you're trying to tell me. That's all I'm saying. And they got there to say, I ain't fighting nobody. I just make them look like nobody.

Y'all must have forgot. Yeah. So the 90s, you dominate. You take on all comers. You're sitting pretty. And I don't know if people realize this, Roy. Your first 50 fights, you didn't get beat. You got DQ'd.

Had you been 50 and 0, would you have stopped? If I went headway tighter and went back down and beat 12 that first time, I would have stopped right there. But it was in my DNA, it was in my inevitability to, I had to go fight for the headway championship of the world. When God tells you to go do something, you have to go do it. So even at 59, after I fought and won the headway title, I went back and recaptured the light headway title,

then because I was undefeated, yes, I would have stopped at that point. Because I was undefeated, I had no reason. I could have given my body two years of rest, or maybe evenweight title. Then because I was undefeated, yes, I would stop at that point. Because I was undefeated, I had no reason. I could give my body two years of rest, or maybe even three years of rest because I was undefeated. What I gotta worry about? But when they disqualify you, they kill that urge to stay undefeated. And what hurt me worse was that I know in that same state,

Bennett passed in as a hit down at Rose Black, two times after the bear and he even hit the referee. After the referee tried to stop the fight to get between them. He hit the referee and he hit the dude. And he didn't get disqualified. And he didn't get disqualified. No, really Bo hit Jesse Ferguson two times after the bear and that same thing. And they turned the lights off after that but he didn't get disqualified.

And you can go back and look at all this. Same thing, he didn't get disqualified and you can go back look at all this same thing he didn't get disqualified i tell you when the referee just say stop if you don't say stop so i tell him again he look up there oh it's content go out he laid out like he's out and they disqualified me really i got robbed of gold medal now y'all will disqualify me too my life just you know i don't know my life's just good around turmoil like yes. I can't see, you know. That's just who I am. But, you know, you got to embrace it and keep it moving. So I embrace it and I keep it moving.

But like I said, you got to look at how I go. I mean, some people get to go fight an exhibition and they get to fight a guy way louder than them. I want to fight an exhibition. Guess who I got to fight? Mike Tyson. In 99, you fight Reggie. I must fight that, too. Go ahead.

What happened? Go ahead. What were you going to say about Tyson? No, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was going to ask you about the 99 fight, the light heavyweight fight against Reggie Johnson, and you winning that fight and becoming the first guy since,

if I'm not mistaken, Michael Spinks to unify the light heavyweight. Yeah, that was a big fight for me. And that was a big fight because earlier, back in like 1991, I think, he came to my gym, my dad had started training him. And my dad wanted me to spar with him one day. So I sparred one round with him and I beat that one round and I got out. My dad started fussing and cussing at me, telling me to get back up.

I said, I'm not sparring with him no more. He said, why? I said, because if he get a belt, I'm taking it. I said, I don't need him to learn how to deal with me because if he become world champion, I don't care if you with him or not, I'm getting that belt. My goal is to become middleweight champion of the world.

If he get a middleweight title before me, I want him. So I know I'm not sparring with him no more. I sparred one round, I'm through with that. I see that I can whoop him. If he get the middleweight title before me, I want him. So I know I'm not sparring with him no more. I sparring with him one round, I'm through with him. I see that I can whoop him. If he get the title, I'm coming to get that. Guess what happened seven years later? He got the title, guess what happened after that? I come back there.

Why you didn't want the man to have no belt, Roy? He can have a belt. What I'm saying is my daddy, who was training me, want to train him too. I don't want him like that. I wouldn't raise him. See, I'm not like these new dudes. I don't know him like that. I wasn't raised that way. So I'm not like these new dudes. I don't have friends.

My friends are the ones that were raised up in jail with me. I don't grow up and then get new friends. No, I don't know you like that. I don't know him. So you bring him to my gym and say, oh, you want me to spar with him? You want me to teach him how to beat me? No, no, no, no. That's not going to happen.

If you want to teach him how to beat me, you go take him on your own time and teach him how to beat me over there. Because if he get a title, I'm coming to see you and him. So, you know, I'm not going to let you immediately beat me. So, you wouldn't want your trainer training other fighters that potentially you have to face? Duh. I mean, that man got to make money, Roy.

I mean, you're going to pay, hold up, you're going to pay for all this? That man got to make money, Roy. I mean, you're going to pay – hold up. You're going to pay for all this? That man got to make money. He do have to make money, but it won't be against me. Roy, hold on. If I'm selling cars, how you going to get upset if I sell cars to somebody else? Well, you got to buy a fall of these cars. You got to buy a fall of my time.

I ain't training you 24 hours a day, Roy. Let me make some money. You can make some money. But what I'm saying is, if you want to make that money, take him over there. You train him over there. Wait for me. Don't bring him. Don't think I'm going to help you train him.

Don't think I'm going to help you sell him a car. That's not my job. You're going to sell a car to me. You're going to give me. I will deal with what you sell him a car. I'm not going to help you sell them no doggone car. That ain't how that go. I get it because that's your dad.

You're like, dad, hold on. You must be out your mind. Think I'm going to spar with this guy. You're going to trade him. Nah, nah, dad. That ain't cool. OK. I ain't say, listen to him.

Listen to him. Check it out. I didn't say that ain't cool. I said you can train him. But you're not going to use me to help you train him because I got a weapon. You getting him ready. You don't know that. One day you go, check it out. I didn't say that ain't cool, I said you can train him. But you're not gonna use me to help you train him, cause I got a weapon. You getting him ready, you don't know that. One day you and him might fall out.

Then you get what you gonna be expecting. Or you gotta go beat him up. After you done taught him how to deal. No, no, no, that's not gonna happen. When I see him, I'm gonna see him on my own terms. So is that how you think? Is you thinking like, okay, so if anybody that was in your gym, you, so if anybody that was in your gym,

you really never fought anybody that was in your gym? Well, I let my hand down one time. I take that back. I let Lupe Abel come and spar with me for a few times because I never thought I'd end up fighting him. He ended up going out winning a world championship and ended up fighting me. And he was the first guy to knock me down.

But it was the same reason why I don't spar with guys that I'm going to fight because they'll learn how to deal with you. And so he learned from all the sparring how to deal with me. So he was able to knock me down. I got up and kept beating him out of there. But still, he was able to knock me down because of all the rounds he spent sparring with me. He learned how. He learned everything. It made him better. He didn't make me better. I made him better because I was better than him when we started. So I would do that if I read Johnson. But Reggie Johnson ranked ahead of me already. You understand me? So I'm like, no, I'm not going to teach him how to deal with me and he already ranked ahead of me.

No. The John Ruiz fight. What made you so convinced that you could move up from a light heavyweight to a heavyweight and win a title? Well, when God sent me on a mission, I got to go on that mission. I don't care what it is. So when I had a, to me, it was like, I had a premonition that I should go fight for the heavyweight championship of the world.

I felt like that was God talking to me. So I immediately got up the next day, called, set up a meet with Evander Houghtonfield and his lawyer, Jim Thomas. I flew to Atlanta and asked him to fight me. Houghtonfield said, no, I got too much to gain, too much to lose and not enough to gain to fight you. So I'm not going to do it.

I said, if you feel like that, all right. I left and flew back to my training camp well lo and behold his next fight he lost to general reese to this day i don't know how general reese knew that i wanted to fight for the world title but after he won he said hey and guess what i'll fight real john jr you'll do what you'll fight me? Oh, let's go. So, so basically you wanted to fight Holyfield. Holyfield lose to John Ruiz. John Ruiz called you out. You had, so in other words, you wanted to fight Holyfield. You didn't want to fight John Ruiz until he called you out.

No, I wanted to fight the heavyweight champ. I didn't care who it was. At the time when I had, when I thought about making it happen, Holyfield had the title. So I went to ask him. He said no, but John Rhys beat him and he took the title. Then he said, yeah, I'll fight Roy Jones Jr. I said, yes. Hold on, so why were you so convinced that you could beat a heavyweight champion?

Once again, in my prime, before losing that weight, I was convinced I could beat you could be the heavyweight champion once again in my prime before losing that weight i was convinced i could be anybody put on the planet like you just everybody i think i could have beat mike my prime what if they put him in front of me that was going down i don't know how but it was going down i had the way i thought of boxing was i had enough to take any car on the lot apart right what kind of car, how big, what size engine. You put it in my shop, I'm gonna take the part. And that ring was my shop. So in all the divisions that you fought in, what would you say was the toughest division

that you fought in? It's hard to say because, middleweight, it wasn't really a lot of opponents there. Super middleweight, it was a few, but not, probably light heavyweight was tough to beat, because I had more opponents, more named opponents in the light heavyweight division. Mike McCallum, Lou DelVal, Reggie Jones, and I became undisputed champ in the light heavyweight division.

But the thing about me was, was that when I became champ as light heavyweight, I was trying to find every possible title in that weight division that I could get, I got. Only one I didn't get was the WBO because Darius Mikulczewski was German. Well, he ain't German. I think he's German, but he lived in Germany. And he wouldn't come from Germany to fight me. If you offered him $5 million to come over here and fight me for my title, I had $7 billion. He had one, and he wouldn't do it.

They told me they wanted me to come to Germany. Now, I got robbed in the Olympics in Seoul, Korea in 1988. Why, if I'm the man who beat James Turner, who was the man at the time, to become the man, now I got seven belts in one division. I have one more out there. You got it in Germany. I'm going to take my seven belts and go back overseas, knowing what more out there, you got in Germany, I'm gonna take my seven belts and go back overseas, knowing what happened to me

in my career already, and give you an opportunity to last 12 rounds with me, they will give you all seven of my belts, and your one, now you keep that one, and I'm gonna stay over here. Anytime you get ready to bring that one over here and try to beat seven, you're welcome to come on, but I'm not bringing my seven, and you know how I'm old school. I ain't finna bring my 7 over there to you, and you ain't got but one.

So if I put, I'm going to have a boxing jamboree, and I'm going to take Roy Jones Jr., I'm going to take Marvin Hagler, I'm going to take Tommy Hearns, I'm going to take Marvin Hagler. I'm going to take Tommy Hearns. I'm going to take Bernard Hopkins. I'm going to take Jermaine Taylor. I'm going to take Kelly Pavlik. I'm going to take Roberto Duran and Julio Sejard

Chavez. And I'm going to say, okay, who's going to have the belt? One belt. Roy, that's a? One belt. Roy. Roy, that's a gauntlet, Roy. That's a gauntlet. Hey,

he probably gonna have to fight Marvin to get a maul, but he gonna have mauls. So you believe? Why doesn't Marvin Hagler get more credit? Because I – Because Marvin was – Go ahead, because I had this conversation with Mayweather also.

Sharpass and Durant both were a little too small for me. Marvin was the only one that was close to my size. But also, Marvin had an impeccable chin, and Marvin stayed the same every day, every minute, every round. He always was the same dependable, reliable Marvin, all the way down to his outfit. He would wear the same burgundy and white outfit every single time. He was always the same Marvin every night.

That's why he was a problem. You know what? I can't understand why Jermaine Taylor didn't dominate that division longer than he did after what I saw him do to Bernard Hopkins and to have Kelly Pavlik basically out on his feet and then could never beat him. How does that work, Roy?

A lot of that stuff, not only does it happen outside the gym and outside the ring, a lot of that has to do with his everyday life. If your everyday life is not 100% devoted to boxing, you can have all the talent in the world, you will not accomplish the thing or you will not reach the level that you should reach with your ability because ability alone won't get you there. Because you think Jermaine Taylor could have been an all-time great too, don't you?

Of course he could have. He stayed focused on just boxing. You know what? I mean, your very first time getting knocked out, what goes through your mind? Tell me when Tarver took the title, what was going through your mind? Just you'd be pissed off because you feel like you let people down. You'd be more pissed off of letting people down more so than yourself.

You know what I mean? So it's like you'd be really pissed off and upset because you feel like you let people down. You know, it's like that's not characteristic of you and like I said I know without the weight loss that never would have happened to me but you just feel it's very uncharacteristic but for me at the same time what I chalked it up as is that when you make big sacrifices to do big things and you gotta have repercussions you went from junior middleweight all the way up and won a heavyweight title then you took that 25 pounds of muscle and just snatched it right off and came back

and recaptured the light heavyweight title then you're gonna keep going no son you got to stop at some point you can't keep going you gotta let your body regroup and you didn't do that and it's like you don't see it till later and you see it but you don't want to believe it because you used to be a superman but even superman got to stop at some point kryptonite made superman weak that 25 pounds could have been kryptonite and then tarver came back for hopkins after he gained that weight for that movie and then he lost weight and came for hopkins and he got beat pretty he didn't get knocked out because knocked out because hopkins not a real knockout puncher but he lost almost every round and he got beat pretty, he didn't get knocked out because knocked out because hockey is not a real knockout puncher,

but he lost almost every round. And he understood then what that way also does to you. But it was worse for me because I had real live weight lifting muscle on me. You understand me? So it's different, but being knocked out makes you want to give up and make you feel bad. But for me, I can never give up because that's

not who i am so just because i was knocked out didn't mean i wasn't coming back that meant i had to come back do you remember do you remember the punch that he caught you with and do you know the mistake that you made of course i know i know everything about it over and backwards you regroup you take some time off i hear i believe it to be true that once you get knocked out you're more susceptible to being knocked out again is that true not a question without a question that's what happened again and again because once you get it your body know it is so it's a little easier to make it happen now. Before you won't believe it happened to you.

Once it happened to you, now it's not impossible for it to happen. So your mind plays tricks with you because now your mind know, guess what? It can't happen. So it's a little easier for it to happen again. And if you think about it, a perfect example is, Tom Haines is one of the hardest punching dudes

you would ever meet. But Sugar Ray, because he never got knocked out completely, took a ton of punches. Now, Tyron knocked him down, but he never knocked him out. Tyron Harris knocked out Roberto Duran. Cold. Don't nobody knock Roberto Duran out. Tyron knocked him cold.

Ice cold. He hit Ray Leonard with the same right hand over and over and over again. But because Ray didn't believe he can go from it Ray didn't go so it's not about belief you feel me but with the 25 pounds of muscle my body failed you understand me so it's like and lost with the 25 pounds of muscle lost your body failed you so now it's gonna be easy because now you know your mind hey that can't happen because my body failed me me once. Until your body has failed you, you don't believe it. And like I said, it's like Sherry Leonard.

He took Tommy's right hand better than anybody because he didn't believe what was happening. But he didn't believe Tommy would knock him out. So after the Tarver fight, the second fight, do you believe you should have stopped then and said, you know what, it's a wrap. I've done everything. I've gotten belts.

I had seven belts at one time. I went from junior middleweight all the way up to heavyweight, and I cleaned out every division. I'm good. Did you think about it and say, you know what, I'm good. I'm done? I did, but after being knocked out, you just can't. It's like riding a motorcycle.

You're getting knocked off that motorcycle, you got to get back up and get back on it or else you'll never ride a motorcycle again. And I don't like sitting around being afraid of nothing, so I had to go back. But that's okay, though, Roy. You know that's what they got cars for. You ain't got to get back on a motorcycle. You got a car. You got a car.

Yeah, but I had to get back on them cars. That's what I do. So I'm not afraid to be afraid to go back to where I made my name at. No way. Are you done competitively fighting? Yeah, I'm done competitively fighting now. Yes. So now you're just going to sit back and be a country boy,

raise your chickens. And that's it. Laugh at these guys that they asked for me and keep it moving. Have you thought about becoming a trainer? I already am a trainer full time. Well, okay. So, you know, you're in the same boat like Buddy McGirt. I mean, some of the great boxers became trainers.

But I don't know if anybody has ever been as great as you become a trainer. Why is it so hard for boxers? Because great players, it been as great as you become a trainer. Why is it so hard for boxers? Because great players, it's hard for them to become great coaches. Normally, it's the fringe players. Yeah, why is it so hard? Sometimes it's hard for people that are great to understand where their greatness came from or how they got great or what made them great. And it's like some people are so high on a level that they can't accept anything less than great

so they can't teach you because everybody can't be great that's right with other people are great and don't even understand what made them great so they can't teach you because they don't understand it's just what that's gonna be great right so it's those two things that usually what one or the other that usually stop people from being great trainers. If you can't explain what you did or it's so high in your mind that you don't expect that and everybody can't do that. And that's why people try to say, oh, Roy, everybody can't fight like you.

But I don't try to make people fight like me. I learned a lot of stuff. I know I got a real, real thick encyclopedia here on boxing right there in my brain. It's really a lot between these two ears and people don't understand that. I had a doctor once tell me, Roy, he said, those that can do, those that can't teach.

And based on what he was saying, the ones that can really do it, they do it and they do it at a high level. Those that can't do it at do it and they do it at a high level those that can't do it at that level they become teachers they become the trainers they become the coaches they become the managers and it says it's so and i was talking to magic johnson magic said it's hard for great players to become coaches is because you want them to do things that became so easy to you and you're like man just do that but everybody so easy to you. And you're like, man, just do that. But everybody ain't magic done. And so what you're telling me is that you don't expect anybody else to be Roy Jones Jr. I'm trying to get you to become the best fighter you can become. And

whatever that is, that is. Don't worry about being Roy Jones Jr. Not at all. Not at all. Don't even think about that. Your rap career. You know, it's hard to say that you're not the greatest boxing rapper all time. Where would you

put your rap skills? I mean, you had some beats. I think I'm the best athlete rapper of all time. All of the best all time?

You got bars? Hold on. What about Dame Lewis? Dame Dollar? He didn't sell the records that I sold yet. Dame is good. Dame is really good, but he didn't sell the records I sold yet.

So it's like, we want that to be good. It's not that we're going to make songs that people will hear and want to hear again. Shaq? A lot of people can rap. I know some guys right now. I know some guys right now can rap all day long. But can they make songs that you want to hear over and over and over again?

I got, my song Can't Be Touched. It's still being played. Hey, when I want to get hyped in the gym, Roy, when I want to get hyped, I just, I go, whoo, so wait about to move. If I, when you, you cut that out in the gym right now, Roy, so wait about to get moved now. Yep, yep. That's why I get moved now. Yep. Yep.

That's why I say I think I was one of the best because I had a song that was able to outlive his time. That song still hot. Any kind of workout or a pre-fight or pre-game, right now today, you put it on, people are ready to go again. Must have forgot? Y'all must have forgot. People still say that.

What about your acting career? You want to get more involved in that or you good? No, I'm good with acting. I did enough of it. They have changed the rules and stuff so much now that I think it's better I stay out the way of it. But I did enjoy it when I did it. Roy, I appreciate it, bro.

Congratulations on your career. I followed your career. Talk to Brooks. I talk to Brooks all the time. And he always talk, you know, talk about you. Talk to Emmitt. Emmitt and I are good friends. We came in the league together. So congratulations on your career.

Well deserved, bro. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy this time off. Thank you. And I also watched your career and I enjoyed your career as well. So thank you, my brother. God bless you. Stay strong. Keep doing what you're doing. Love what you're doing too now. Thank you, bro. Appreciate it the price. Want a slice.

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