Club Shay Shay - Steve Stoute Part 1

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

Steve Stoute and Shannon Sharpe embark on their journey to Queensbridge Projects in New York, unearthing tales that led to the legendary careers of Nas and Steve. The episode kicks off with a hilarious FaceTime call to Nas from the very projects that shaped he and Steve’s lives, sharing laughs and memories with the neighborhood crew. Steve then guides Shannon through a tour of his office, dropping gems about the time Men In Black sunglasses overshadowed Will Smith’s album and revealing the untold story of Kobe Bryant living with him at 18. The anecdotes keep rolling as Steve spills the beans on being behind LeBron infamously rejecting a $10 million check while in high school, Allen Iverson's elusive Reebok commercial appearance and the transformative impact of hip-hop on Reebok's brand image thanks to Jay-Z and 50 Cent. The episode delves deep into Steve's entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing equity, ownership, and the ethos behind starting United Masters. From the rich hip-hop history of Queens to the intricacies of legendary rap beefs, Steve Stoute shares his insights with wit, wisdom, and a touch of humor, making this first half a rollercoaster ride through the iconic tales of the music and sports industry. Don't miss out on the laughter, lessons, and legendary stories that unfold in Part 2 of the conversation with the one and only Steve Stoute. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolf. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I grabbed the gun. He said, wait, that's the guy that makes Biggie Smalls beat.

I was going to say, look out, Wiz. Nah, he told a story, huh? Style came up in here like he owned the place, man. He about to get aired out. It's safe to say that shit is different. Nah, he told a story how Stout came up in here like he owned the place, man. He about to get aired out. He asked me, how'd you first meet Nas? Everyone wanted to work with him, but no one could find him. My job was to find him, and I ran into these guys. And it didn't start off so healthy.

So take him through the story. Where were we? This is the corner where Nas took the picture of Illmatic. This is the same corner that he's looking at. Okay. In the picture with his face as a little kid. This is that corner. We saw, you know, me and Mad crack on this corner. This was a legendary corner.

People went to jail. We fought. Shot to death. Robberies. that corner we sold you know me mad crack on this corner this was a legend every corner people went to jail fought shot to death robberies everything happened right here where we walking now so stout parked like right here and he got out the car and it was like a walk you can walk through the grass this gate wasn't here no the game wasn't there you ain't running no game yet but you can walk through this grass or walk around since he he cut through the grass, that meant he was aggressive. You know what I mean? That meant he might be coming to rob us. We sitting on the benches now.

So you pulled up like you was supposed to be here. He's pulling up like he fucking... Like he here. This is a nice neighborhood to pull up and ask, hey, do you know where Nasir and Nas is and shit. Bro, how you roll up in somebody else's hood? You don't know nobody. There's no one to call. What are you supposed to do, Cole?

Who do you call? And now he pulls over. Now my heart starts beating. I'm like, for real? He's pulling over. He must want this shit. So now I'm like, yo, you know, I sat down. Boom, boom.

The gun is down there. You know what I mean? I'm like, all right, what is he going to do? He got out of that car and cut through the grass. I grabbed the gun. I said, yo, everybody look out. And Wiz said, no. He said, wait, that's the guy that makes Biggie Smalls beats.

He made one more chance. He's looking for Nas. He made one more chance for Biggie. And I said, what? You went over there and talked to him in the middle, and you told me to chill. If you wasn't there, bro, you know what I mean? It would have been nuts. You know what I mean?

Because I'm in the pitch. Hi, my name is Steve Stout. He said, yo, I'm just looking for nines. I want to manage them. He said, I don't want to see him with mad skills and not making no money behind their skills. He said, I'm here to change that. He said, I want to talk to nines. I said, Joe.

Hell yeah. Joe. Easy. I was going to say, look out, Wiz. Nah, I was going to definitely air you, though. We appreciate that. I appreciate that. We appreciate you not taking my life. Once we met, this is one of my best friends I ever had in my life. I love him so much.

We've been through mad shit. This is Nas' brother. I don't know if you picked up on all that. A real talk. No, that's his brother. I don't live out here no more. I'm damn near rich too. Y'all see me?

I'm damn near rich too. I don't know, motherfucker. I gotta get the fuck out of here. Yeah! We're in school! You call up my hood nigga and I still with me! Hell no, motherfucker! I gotta get the fuck outta here! Nah, but you know they love me forever, you know? But you don't know. Some little nigga might, you know? When I was young, I was pressing anybody. Right.

It's Christmas, mom! It's December! You don't know what kind. It's the hood, you know what I mean? It's the projects. You can't predict the projects. Right, right. This is where I'm from, I lived in that building over there, you know? Grew up out here and everything, but I'm gone now. Shannon, I'm gone, Shannon.

That's what's up, that's what's up. There you go. You already know my style outside, you know I'm outside. You know where we are. You know I'm outside, boy. You know I'm welcome to get a break. What's up, dude? I'm doing great, man. I'm out here with your brother, with people from the bridge, bro.

That's what's up, baby. I love for you, y'all. I appreciate that. I told Shannon Sharp where they used to tackle you at over there. When they was hurting, they was tackling you. Mo Rooney and Mayo was tackling you so hard over there, man. Shit was crazy, man. They made you cry, man. Nah, he told a story how Stout came up in here like he owned the place, man. He about to get aired out.

Yeah, I heard about that, man. I thought he was a dude that had a lot of heart. here like he owned the place man he about to get aired out he has a lot of questions about us early in the beginning and i really said a lot of it stemmed from how we met just you knew what i was you know my determination and that determination led to a friendship that's lasted 28 years. Amazing. Absolutely, man. Yeah. Absolutely. The brother I always wanted, also. Like the older brother to myself. Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes. It really, really, really talked to me. It got me focused, man. So I always appreciate you, Steve. It's amazing that y'all went out there. I can't believe you. I can't believe fucking Shannon Sharp is right here. That's true.

I'm praying for you. You're a real one for that, Shannon. Oh, baby. I got Shannon now. And Shannon is a real one right here. Hey, bro, the people, they love Unc. They will holler when I got out of the trunk. They'll be like, hey, man, that's Unc.

They love me out here. Hell yeah. So I'm good. Hell yeah. They saw you winning them Super Bowls and shit out here. I appreciate that, man. You may end up in the verse now. All my life, been grinding all my life. I saw you winning them Super Bowls and shit out here. I appreciate that, man. You may end up in the verse now. Hustle pay the price Want a slice Got the rolling dice That's why All my life

I've been grinding all my life Bro man Man We got you in Brooklyn man Thank you bro Yeah Yeah Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. Look. Summertime shot on the boat, me and the guys. Plotting our next moves, putting smoke in the sky. This is a lot of the awards we had won. That's the Jay-Z reboot, right? Yeah, Jay-Z's thing that we did. Those are the Pharrells, the original ice creams.

Wow. He did those. It's mostly advertising awards. You got the billboards up there? Yeah, we got some hardware, man. We've done a good job. Right. This is where it really took off for me, Shannon. I did the Men In Black soundtrack. That was great. That was like a Will Smith comeback album because

music changed on it. Wu-Tang Biggie Nas that came in and sort of like happy rap right was kind of off to the sides and then because but Will was a movie star and we made Men in Black and the song went crazy changed his music career got him back but the thing about this that was nuts is that the album sold 10 million but the glasses sold more wow and we never got paid from the glasses and the small advertising agency that did the product placement for the glasses i spent time with them and literally over the next three years i left the music business and got into advertising that's how i got into advertising because i'm like if you could if the music could sell all these glasses imagine what i could do if i left the

music business and focused on the product and that's why i made the jay-z sneaker and the pharrell sneaker and the g-unit sneakers i started trying to make products because i thought that we could use the music and that's where that's kind of where we are today but i was back on that you were doing the collab before the collab was cool. It wasn't even a collab. It was more, to me, it was obvious, man. If you can move culture and you can move people, why wouldn't you sell higher margin items? Right. You could sell a CD for $16.99.

You could sell a sneaker for $110. Right. You know what I'm saying? You could move, right? Will Smith was selling those glasses. He didn't get paid from the glasses either when will smith said i make these look good those glasses was gone he's a very innovative businessman founder and ceo a music industry vet a multi-talented

marketing genius an industry leader and entrepreneur award-winning record producer and advertising exec artist manager New York Times best-selling author you were inducted into the advertising Hall of Fame achievement recognizes ad color awards innovator of the year name executive of the year by ad age as one of the fastest-going companies most creative people in business a guru game changer icon trailblazer visionary known as the commissioner he has the golden touch steve stop i love that did i leave out anything because man my research is not man that was good now you're good you're

good man i felt like yeah i was thinking babe could he add a little bit more to that but no i mean we could add a little bit more season but but we don't want to over-season it. No, it was season perfect. Okay, I appreciate that. I don't know how many people know this, but Kobe lived with you for six weeks. How old was he when he lived with you? How old was he? He was going into his second year.

So, he's about 18? Yeah. Yeah. was going into his second year so he's about 18 yeah yeah and you said is it true that you signed kobe to a recording contract uh yeah i signed kobe to a recording contract so to do the math went just like this yeah i would hear this let me set up for this one when will smith made men in black and sold all these records, the music business had changed where it was like, you know, it was, again, Nas, Wu-Tang, and Biggie, and sort of Mob Deep.

It was that kind of, you know, much darker sound. Yes. Right? Compared to what he was doing. Right. He was bright as bright can get. Right. You talking about Will or Kobe?

I'm talking about Will. Will. I'm talking about Will right now. Yes, okay. So I'm like, if this guy, and he rapped over a sample and it became super pop and successful, I'm like, if we can do that,

just maybe, but hold on, Shaq just did it. Shaq sold millions of records, man. Correct. People, like, he really did. He did. Not a fake thing. Right.

Shaq had a successful recording music career. And I'm like, if Shaq can do it Will Smith did it big Shaq just did it This kid Kobe People will love this guy. I mean he went to the prom with Brandy There was a lot of energy around him and he actually had a rap group When I signed him, he was in a group I mean, you know Kobebe god bless anyway he went solo he was in a group though he was in a group and um he put in the work he came to my house he lived

at my house for six weeks i lived in new jersey um a very dear friend of mine uh charles oakley he came out used to come out to jersey and hang out with him, worked out with him a few times. And Kobe was, you know, we in the morning get up. I got him to go to this local gym. He would shoot a thousand shots. Then he would he had these tapes. It was Michael Jordan going left, Michael Jordan going left Michael Jordan going right so it was just the tapes were split Jordan moving left, Jordan moving right Jordan guarding people going left Jordan guarding people going right

and you'd watch it for hours and then we would go to the studio and record that was his routine every single day I learned a lot of discipline the discipline from a young man. I thought I was, you know, I thought I was pretty disciplined in doing my thing.

And I seen another level of it with him. Very, very special talent. I could talk about him for hours because during that period of time when I got to know him, he wasn't really into having a lot of friends. To know him, he wasn't really into having a lot of friends. A lot of people never got a chance to get close to him because he was closed off like that. For years, man, we would speak all the time. I mean, we became very, very close friends. So obviously it was unfortunate.

I took him to Rucker Park. He played in Rucker Park, man. And he wanted to play because all these guys go out there, all these NBA guys go to Rucker Park. It's like, you know, you got to play in the Rucker. It's like a rite of passage. Yeah. And we go out there and I gave him to my man.

I didn't have a team. Irv Gotti grew up in my neighborhood. I let him play for Irv's Murder, Inc. team at the time. And he goes out there and all the guys are there, and he starts putting on a show, Shannon. A show. He loved it. It starts to drizzle. I'm like, we got to close this game down.

I mean, I'm not letting him play, but he's not going to let the game, he's not going to want to be the one to call it. So he starts telling the basketball team how to play on wet surfaces. I'm like, we're not doing any of this. Because I already know this man gets hurt. It's on your watch. It's on my watch.

So we shut it down. But yeah, he put, I forgot, he's got 30 points in 12 minutes or some crazy number and shit like that. So could you tell, because you said he's so disciplined he's watching jordan go left watching jordan go right jordan's garden left jordan's garden right and he's back in the studio recording did you knew did you know then with the level of discipline that an 18 year old kid had that he was going to be what he became oakley told me char. Charles told me. Charles told me immediately the similarities between him and Jordan with work ethic. He knew it immediately.

He came in talking. I didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. I'm like, whatever. He said that. But the other thing he did was he asked me, and I had this guy who worked for me at the time. He's actually now, his name is Anton Marchand. He's actually a recruit for the Cleveland Cavaliers.

He worked for me in the music business at the time. Kobe was going to guard Allen Iverson that year. He was very much respectful of Iverson's speed and all that. And he said, go get, he wanted to get young guards from new york that could you know do they cross over and cross over a lot we got him went to this indoor gym he lined 10 of them up they came in from the three-point line he stood at the foul line and they would come in like an assembly line and he would guard them try to strip them take them to the hole and then run back to the line before the next guy came he ran ran that. He never got on offense.

He ran that like an assembly line. Wow. He was just guarding. He was guarding guys, six foot, fast as shit. They'd get past them, steal from them, block it, you know, rub their shit against the backboard, come back, guard the next guy. He was doing this over. I couldn't believe that he was doing this.

No offense, no nothing and it was like this level of discipline and in a tough guy tough like just a strong disciplined tough principle driven man we are one night um to this bar and back then street guys would buy all of the Cristal. Yeah. Right? But let me tell you something. They're buying the Cristal because what they want is, assuming, not because they are drinking all of it. If somebody comes in and you order Cristal, you got to check in. You got to check in.

So I ordered a Cristal. He's not even drinking. Kobe's not drinking at all back then. he was not drinking alcohol at that time guys doesn't have to check in there's a guy down at the bar whatever i'm like i don't feel like doing it he's like man fuck this it's a good thing so i got the cristal no i didn't get the cristal i didn't want to do it i I'm like, I'm not, fuck this. I'm not doing this. We go out to a diner like 2, 3 in the morning. And the same guy, street guy, won't say his name, is sitting there. And Cole is making jokes about his outfit.

And he's being a little loud. I'm like, yeah, you got to chill with that, bro. Yeah, he's not chilling with that, bro. He's loud. The guy sends somebody over, yo, blah, blah, blah, I want to talk to you. I go outside. I'm like, yo, the young kid, he got the gun out. He's like, yo, he got the gun out.

Yo, I'm like, he's he's a young man i'm trying to tell him that's how nobody he didn't know who he was all right so he didn't know what kobe bryant is i'm like he's a young man thing he's cool whatever whatever kobe comes outside sees the gun i'm like go go back in he goes i'm not going nowhere wow he did this on 23rd and 9th avenue he did that so what did old boy at 18 the whole thing it died but he said he ain't going nowhere i'm like yo he's just saying he don't know who you are i was already it was already the guy felt embarrassed it wasn't like it wasn't crazy he the guy felt embarrassed he really wanted an apology for the embarrassment.

Right. That was, because it was loud. Right. And I was giving him that. It's cool, man. It's fine. He didn't mean no disrespect. He doesn't even know who you are, man.

He's not even from here. Right. When he said, I ain't going nowhere, I'm like, what kind of person is this? I'm giving you the out. Right. This is not your problem. I'll deal with this problem. Right. you the out. Right. This is not your problem. I'll deal with this problem. Right.

He don't want that. This is our problem. Wow. Man. I never told that story, man. So, what, I mean, so you know that the kid is so desperate. Know that he's standing, as they say now, in business. What, what did he teach you?

You can run through walls, man. You believe it, you can do anything. There's nothing you can't do if you believe in it. That's what he taught me. He never... Did he speak about the basketball aspect? I understand he was there to do music, but did he talk to you about what he wanted to become in the hell yeah man he had no because he manifested all of it

but he really did the work he he knew that if you did all the work that ultimately it was going to happen he didn't even think about it he all his whole thing was that everybody who has a talent always tapped out in doing the work. I asked him one time, we were at a restaurant, and we're sitting there talking, and I always wanted to ask this question. What do you think about athletes that come from, I would ask you this, man, athletes that come from two-parent households

versus athletes that come from single-parent households? So you got man athletes that come from two-parent households versus athletes that come from single-parent households so you got these guys who come from single-parent households they're in a football field and their anger and the shit that they i'm doing this for my mother i ain't got no father whatever the circumstances are they bring in all that energy on the basketball court on the football field and they play with that level of rage. Yeah. And he goes, I said, how do you feel about them versus he goes, you know, those guys are intimidating and they play with that rage. And it works until they run into the real thing. Michael Jordan, me, Magic Johnson, they run into that. And we got the same level of work ethic and rage but we have we come from a solid foundation and that solid foundation that's the that's the thing

that those guys can't beat he said that to me i was like all right wow you also knew lebron at a very young age i mean lebron was what like 15 16 when you met I know I met LeBron when he was 17 I pitched LeBron I the the whole story about LeBron and the 10 million dollar check that he turned out Yes, I was there. I'm it was my idea to give him the check. I Was in the room to give him the check a kid with a single mom I couldn't believe it living in an apartment. Yeah, got a 10 million dollar check so here you go bro paul feynman so i tell paul feynman i'm like we leave we're in new york for meetings we're flying up to uh massachusetts to meet lebron he's flying the plane yeah from akron it's like a six o'clock 5 30 meeting he had to

finish school to come to me boom i'm like paul he goes adidas is gonna do the deal nike's gonna do the deal he wants to go to nike his agent is already pre-approved to deal with nike i'm like let me tell you how you deal with this in the record business when you want to sign somebody you give them the money right there on the front like you know what whatever you think the number is we'll give you this signing bonus right now, tonight, even take the other meetings. Because I figure if you're meeting me, you're really considering it.

Right. I'm going to give you a signing bonus to make on top of what you think you should get so that there's no reason for you to take the other meetings. $10 million is the number. He calls his wife. This is when I seen some early,

some ball and shit. He calls his wife. When we land on some early some ball and shit he calls his wife when we land on the fbo there's a 10 million dollar personal check waiting at the thing because we're going right to the office i'm leading the pitch to lebron and and maverick and uh this is agent at the time i can't remember this guy's name gordon i'm sorry aaron gordon doing the pitch doing the whole thing and we get to the thing, to the final stage and Paul's going to present him the check

Paul presents him the check I remember staring at his face this is huge we're going to sign LeBron James we leave the room, we come back when he leaves the check and says he's going to take the other meetings, I clap.

I knew the world changed. A young black man, 18 years old, walked away from $10 million going back to the projects. I clap. I clap, and it was my idea that didn't work. It meant so much. Not that the Reebok was wrong or the check was wrong, but the freedom and confidence and belief in yourself to do that. This is a new generation of individuals.

This is a new generation of thought that's coming from African-Americans. That's what I thought about. And I was so proud of us at that moment. Wow. And you pretty much been in his life because you did the beats by Drake commercial with him. You did it with LeBron and I like this man, me, LeBron, Maverick, Rich. I could tell you everything. You wouldn't mean Ramos, he's my brother

he's my brother Maverick worked with me since he was six months before that Maverick was with me staying at my crib, working out of my office you know, me mentoring him, giving him

the tips, showing him the business whatever, like those are my brothers it's like that me mentoring him, giving him the tips, showing him the business. Whatever. Like, those are my brothers. It's like that. I've been in every iteration of that camp. From before the decision to this, to every single thing. Love those guys. Love LeBron. And how you feel about him is

you know, I'll just tell you right now, forget the arguing of the who's the best basketball player of all time. There's not even a question. he's the best athlete of any sport of all time but forget whether he's the best basketball player or not he's the best professional athlete in any sport i've ever heard of seen of nobody's even close you did alan alvarez's first commercial it wasn't his first commercial it's the only one he showed up to well chuck i love you chuck the bad day is a practice not a game but practice so the likelihood you get them showing for a commercial was gonna be tough he showed up to the commercial

um and it was a very special thing that will, you know, the commercial with him and Jadakiss, man, it played on radio like a song. It became a song. It was Allen Iverson bouncing a ball, creating a beat that Jadakiss rapped to. Right. And when I did that, Hype Williams, who's a great music director at the time, he shot a lot of music videos. He dominated shooting music videos, shot that. No one thought he could shoot commercials at the time. Why? I still have no idea why that was even a thought. And we shot that commercial and it was, you know, part of the package of my rebranding.

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Reebok was skips. He loses me very good. You know, it skips. I don't wear. Reebok was skips. You know what skips are? I don't wear those. Those are skips. You don't want to wear those. You skip those and find something else. You skip something and find something else. Those are Reeboks. We had to rebrand that.

Part of it was changing the letters to RBK. Jay-Z, obviously, and 50 Cent and all of that stuff. And then it was A.I. and Jadakiss. So we did work around A.I. and Jadakiss. We did another spot with Stevie Francis and Scarface at the time. That wasn't as successful. But we were doing this thing to fuse music and sport together.

Because my whole thing was like, every rapper wanted to be a basketball player and basketball player wanted to be a rapper. And that's less true than it was back then, today. But because of that, I wanted to create marketing and advertising around that fusion. And that was the way we rebranded Reebok. Right. How were you able to convince Jay-Z to create a sneaker with Reebok?

It wasn't really hard to convince him. Nike at the time didn't believe in music as performed. Nike was very disciplined to its manifesto about athletes and performance. They wouldn't mess around with anybody else. So an artist, the most you can get from Nike was some free sneakers. Right. They wouldn't do business with you.

There was no commercial opportunity. And Jay-Z knew, like the great ones do, that he was moving the culture. Okay? So when he told everybody, we're wearing button-up shirts, we're going to change clothes, that was happening.

If he did a pair of sneakers with Reebok, forget Reebok's whatever they were, if he puts his name next to it, they're going to buy his sneakers. And he didn't have any self-doubt that forget Nike, I could do this with them. And by the way, while he was wearing his sneakers and selling his sneakers, sometimes he'd wear Nike too. And he's like, people ain't gonna believe me if all I did was wear my sneakers. I gotta show them

that I choose to wear my sneakers like I choose to wear those. It's an option. But like this whole idea, like only wear your sneakers. He choose to wear those it's an option but like this whole idea like only wear your sneakers he knew that but that that looks fake because that wouldn't be real right what's real is i do like these i also do like those but it's creating an option right which put that put reebok in the conversation um so it didn't really take much convincing the convincing was you know getting a deal done not if reebok was the right he was an ambassador he was a partner jay-z's not the

ambassador of anything except himself he was a partner he was a 50 50 partner how do you that's the thing because a lot of times these brands will throw a large sum of money and an athlete or an entertainer will take that it's like okay fine but how do you convince them like take less of this and become partnership or equity stake Jay-z understood that from the beginning because he was an independent artist. So when Jay-Z was selling music at the back of a trunk, the back of a trunk, which Master P did, which Birdman and Cash Money did,

Luke Skywalker did. There's some great entrepreneurs who sold like literally hand-to-hand combat with distributing music. What they knew was whether they got there because they tried to get a record deal and then they got turned down to it and they had to just do that. They learned the margin was there. They actually, that was the first time you got a chance to look under the hood and realize, wait a minute, this thing that costs me, you know,

a dollar to make that I could sell for $16, all that money right there that's mine if i got a record deal i'd be getting a small fraction of that once they learned once you learn that once you see that you can't unsee that right so betting on yourself becomes the right thing to do because that's where the margin is. When I started United Masters, the whole point of building this company, our music company, was that I felt like artists should be independent. They should keep a lion's share of the money. They shouldn't give away their name and likeness because they got money when they was 18 years old or their first record deal.

In order for that deal to be a good idea the record company has to have a belief more belief in you than you have in yourself right because they're basically saying i'm giving you a half a million dollars and you're going to give me your name and likeness for the next 10 years or whatever the term is you even get a chance to find out what it's worth on your own right being independent there was a period of time where it was hard to be independent when those guys did it not everybody was built for that but today while music is being distributed between Apple and Spotify and you have a

platform like United Masses that you can go through and put your music out and get it distributed everywhere, why would you not do that versus going to get a record deal, getting some money, but sacrificing, giving away all the upside for a short-term check? It just don't make no sense. But Steve, is it a case of,

I've always wanted a record deal. I've always wanted to work with a record company. Yeah, it is that but two chains had the same argument me years ago he goes you don't understand i'm like that's the dream well the fact of the matter is part of the dream is to get paid that is not how you get paid that's you're not going to get paid that way secondly this is not 20 years ago where you have to take cds and get them into all these points of distribution and print up a bunch of cds so your your cost outlay was so hard was so expensive because you had to make the song and make 10 000 20 000 of these things you were out

a lot of money before you found out if it worked you can find out if it worked for 50 right now you know for nothing essentially nothing the cost of recording has gone down you can sign up to a platform like ours for 60 put all the music out you want and you'll find that if you ever hit at least do that to find out if you want to make that decision and then you have leverage when you make that decision later man maybe i will get a record deal but you already got a hit so now they can't sit and tell you well we're betting on you no no no no you know i got it right i already bet on me i already bet on me so come correct you see you mentioned that jay-z when he partnered with Reebok, and we see Travis Scott now with Nike.

I think Em had something with Nike. You see Jack Harlow's with New Balance. 50 was G-Unit had something with Reebok. Yeah. Now you see the culture, as you spoke about, and you believe the influence that it had with brands. You see a lot more of that yeah you really started no i started that that's what i'm saying you got no no no no started that

everybody knows that that's you that's me well that's called corporate america i'm gonna introduce you to this thing called hip-hop okay and the music and the culture and everything that it represents can help you that's what i did um and everywhere i go around the world anyone who knows me knows i did that i feel great about that right i don't know i still do believe that we should be way more protective of who we give that to. Right. Because you don't want to give it to people.

Again, that's not your partner who's going to invest in it to further it versus see what they could take from it. Right. Just for short term gain. You don't want to give it away for that. I don't think it's worth it. How do you determine whether or not to take a salary a large salary or take a smaller salary with equity or something how do you how do you determine that how does steve stout determine that so i'm in the music business yes i went through something yeah okay if you don't mind me telling you the story i would love to hear it i'm working at the record company i'm at in a scope i went from sony

i went to in a scope my salary is two and a half million dollars a year i'm 27 years old i'm doing well by anybody's standards yeah better than well yeah right um making money more money than football players back then in so in 97 yeah okay for sure this opportunity comes along where i see you know men in black happens the agency that put uh the glasses in product placement for will smith oops sorry the agency that did that i wanted to work with them because i've never met an agency before i'm'm like, damn, Will Smith wore these glasses. The glasses went crazy. And everybody thinks that was an accident.

I could do that shit every single day. I know exactly who the people are that should be touching these products in order to create, you know, an opportunity to sell more of that product. Spent time with that agency. The guy made me an offer. I spent time at that agency. The guy made me an offer. I'll give you 25% of the agency and $150,000 salary if you come here. So I'm going to leave the record business.

Two and a half million dollars. All of the... Perks that come along with it. That come with it. Who you are, the rooms you walk in, everything that comes with that. To go work in an agency where i don't know anybody i really don't even know the business i just know that one aspect of the business and i'm like if i don't make that bet on myself now when i'm 28 years old 29 years old when would i ever do it when i have a family when

i have kids i'll never make that bet right i made that bet we sold that agency within two years for 190 million dollars i was rich as fuck at the yeah i was 31 years old wow doing it at an extremely high level i'll tell everybody that when i built this company, United masses, the employees get equity in the company. I want people to get equity. I want people to, to make more money, but you can't teach people sacrifice.

That's unfortunate. Yeah. You just can't teach it. That's what then you got to be willing to do that. I will offer that. But if you're going to sit there and think short term, then you're really betting against yourself. You got to be willing to bet on yourself. You can't think that you're getting away with something because somebody overpaid you.

You got to believe that you are worth more than that salary and that you can prove that. And if you are worth more than that salary, why wouldn't you have equity? Whether, I mean, I just think that it's over time. The whole working class idea, how you work has shifted from the indentured servant, the slave, the employee to ownership. You got to have ownership. I mean, this is your show and I'm proud to do this with you because everybody publicly seen what you did,

that you knew your worth. You created value and you knew your worth and you got what you deserved because you got what you earned. Correct. And if you don't have an opportunity to have ownership,

then no matter how good you are, you'll never feel the impact of your value. Right. So, like, you got to do that. And you're going to take a short-term L to do that, so what? Right. I don't want to be one of these people. I never wanted to be one of these people who said, man, I came up with this idea. I invented this.

I did all this shit. But you never got a chance to benefit from it because you took the short-term money? That's not cool. And you see it all the time with a lot of your peers. I'm sure you want to tell them all the time, man. I don't know what you could do to help them, but a lot of these guys, they are trapped

by that mentality of short term they feel like they're stealing or something like they like every time they get a check they're getting away with something no you're giving away too much right well it comes down to how do you see yourself do you see yourself as talent or do you see yourself as a partner do you see yourself as an owner for so long we've been we've been talent taught to believe that yeah because when you come into football they cut your check you're not part of it you don't own part of the team you come into basketball but in this media space what we've been able to do digitally okay no hell no but you know what even outside of the digital and i actually said the man i watch your ex-partner not your partner your ex-host skip i don't even understand why all these other

black athletes even go on the show now i don't even understand what they're doing it to me it's so clear that he needs black talent, athletes, rappers. He's doing everything to prop himself up. And I know he's getting paid over there. And everybody else is getting pennies on the dollar. I'm like, why would you do that? Why would you go over there and do that? He clearly isn't the guy.

He needs you. Why don't everybody leave the show and let's watch him do it for a minute. That show would be dead immediately. They get all these guys over there. They give them pennies on the dollar and they prop them up. I'm like, we got to stop doing that, man. We can't do that no more. It's not worth it.

And there's nothing that comes out of it long term. Except what they benefit from. Well, I like where I am right now, so. Get in on the action with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. New customers who deposit $5 or more can get no sweat bet up to $1,000 back in bonus bets. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now and use code SHANNON. New customers can get a no sweat bet up to $1,000

if your first bet loses. Only on DraftKings Sportsbook with code SHANNON. The crowd is yours. Never found my place in the crowd, so I stayed from the crowd. They laughed at me then, but look at their faces right now. Jigga gave me the blueprint. I've been chasing it down, never chasing the clock. I'm just embracing my greatest albums that came out in 1988. Like EPMD, Follow the Leader, and by any means necessary, Kid N Play, Run DMC, Salt and Pepper, yeah, Eazy-E, Ghetto Boyz, yeah. This all came out. Ultra Magnetics, The Great Adventure of Slick Rick, Big Daddy Kane, this all came out. Ultra Magnetics, The Great Adventure of Slick Rick, Big Daddy Kane. This all came out. This is literally

one year where a lot of these artists won independent labels. So they had creative freedom and made some of the best music that defined an era. Public Enemy, It Takes a Nation of Millions. NWA was this. I even said to Dre, Dr. Dre, I'm like, you made

Straight Outta Compton and you made the Easy Easy Does It album the same year, man. You made two crazy, beautiful classics. Slick Rick. One year. Yeah. Salt and Pepper. And that's where I grew up in. I grew up in Queens. This is like in my neighborhood, man. This is where I grew up. So I just look at this this is reminds me of being 15 years old just watching this like they literally lived here while they were stars wow so like you'd go to the mall and you would

see them yeah and LL Cool J like in the mall wow at block parties LL Cool J I seen that do block parties in Queens then what happened why can't stars now still do that you can't even go back to the same name where you grew up in. You should be a representation. They should, man, this guy lived here in this very neighborhood, and he got out. We can't. Look what happened to Nipsey, man.

Yeah. He went back in his own neighborhood. Going back to your net, there's a bit of jealousy. People, I don't know, man. Back then, there was no choice. I mean, the artists were getting big and they were getting famous, but the art form hadn't gotten to the point where they got really rich. So people seen them, it was like, oh, shit, that's whatever.

But when the money started to get in play, everything changed. Yeah, everything changed. We're headed over to your birthough We're headed over to Queens Where it all started for you Yeah Is Queens the most overlooked hip hop borough? Well we're leaving Brooklyn Right

Which gets a lot more hype Because of Jay-Z and Biggie And Queens definitely gets overlooked Yeah you got LL You got Run DMC Keep going You got 50 Yeah You got Nicki. You got 50.

Yeah. You got Nicki. Yeah. You got Tribe Called Quest. Yeah. You got Nas. For sure. You got Mobb Deep.

They always forget about, I mean, Ja Rule. Yeah. Russell Simmons. Yeah. Irv Gotti. Myself. It gets overlooked for some strange reason. I don't know why. Where I grew up at, within at within like a 10 mile radius was where all these people from I

used to go to the mall and see LL Cool J battling like in a mall or go to a block party and see him you know yeah because those were the venues where guys would get off the art form was so small right it's like the equivalent of guys playing with leather helmets right at the beginning so everybody's doing all kinds of they just trying to move from point A to point B and plus Eddie came to America and landed in Queens I can't believe he did that on Queens Boulevard Zimunda came right from Zimunda so why do you think Queens doesn't get the credit or has the popularity say like a Brooklyn when it comes to hip-hop?

Because of the houses, backyards, grass. You know, Queens is associated with middle class. Right. You know, where Brooklyn and the Bronx is more like, ah, ah, ah. And that New York vibe. The real New York vibe. So Queens gets treated like, you know. And meanwhile, it's not true.

But that's just the, that's probably been the energy associated with it. But everybody knows Queens get the money. So I can tell you that. I mean, KRS and Boogie Down Productions, Molly Mall, The Bridge. Hold on a second. Molly Mall produced in Queensbridge. Yeah. Okay, Molly Mall is from Queensbridge.

Yeah. Obviously, Karis won it from the Bronx. Right. But that beef between Queens and the Bronx, the Bronx won that beef. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. The Bronx won that beef. Smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic,

and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends.

And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, KRS-One was... KRS was a miracle. I just said it, man. I mean... I know, but I just said it. You don't have to bring it up. Then we jumped out.

Oh, shit. That's funny. As far as you can go back, who were the first rappers to have beef? Were the LL and Kumo D? Because that was the first, that's the first one I could think. LL kind of embraced the whole beef thing.

I'm trying to think who? Before LL who had beef, that was blatant. It was like, um, Kumo D was actually a, a battle rapper. It was,

um, there was a mixtape early. That was not, if you really know hip hop, that was like Kumo D and busy B. And that was like a very, very famous tape that if you heard that tape, you heard them battle.

Right. And that was like, for me, I must've been 14 and that was like for me i must have been 14 that was like oh shit that was the battle on mcs so when l.o.q jay and kumudi battled it was like oh shit oh you ready for that smoke this guy kumudi was a made man already right from the underground scene he he got famous with Wild Wild West and all that. Yes, yes. But he was already like a made man before that.

Okay. Getting busy. When they battled, I couldn't believe LL came out on top. Because Kumo D was like that dude. And then LL took him down. And then LL took down down And then LL took down LL made a song called To the Break of Dawn

And took out He took out Ice-T And Kumori And Hammer He did all three of them When I was on He gave each of them a verse Yeah that was

Like he was really into that He's always into that Right By the way That's one of his issues He only That's the only mode he knows Right Like when he rapped into that. He's always into that. Right. By the way, that's one of his issues. That's the only mode he knows. Right. Like, when he rapped a lot, it was like, I'm going girls mode or I'm going...

Dismode. I'm dismode. We rapping. We going after it. We did a song with... This kid idolized him. I'm thinking Cannabis. Yeah. Yeah, Cannabis. on with uh this kid idolized him uh i'm freaking cannabis yeah and yeah and and al just shit on the kid for no reason man he's al is crazy he said can i bust when he when he was when al was rapping like all the way he still raps but when al was in that a younger guy rapping like that

we put foxy brown on the record he puts on on i shot your remix and Foxy Brown on the record. He puts on I Shot Your Remix. And then he puts on the record Female Rappers 2. I don't give a fuck, boo. This girl is 17, man. This girl is 17 on the record. Why are you saying

you can take out Female Rappers 2? I don't give a fuck. He's like a guy, man, who's like, it's either war or we talking about girls Right

But this in between shit Is not what I do Why you the best guy To interview music people Right now That shit is Run with that man Yo

Run There is nobody There is nobody Nobody I'm a sports guy But I wanted to branch out I wanted to show my versatility But I was just more than a sports guy The fucking baby to branch out i wanted to show my versatility but i was just more than

a sports guy the fucking baby interview the corday interview even the damon dash interview as fucked up as that one he's a gigantic almost almost not he blew it he had jay-z he had the most important artists of his generation so what happened with that relationship? How did that relationship that was so good sour so fast? Dame's antics were just it became like people over time you mature. It's like you have friends at 16. But by the time you turn 19, they were still doing the same shit. He was 16. And you're like, I can't. Yeah, we got to. You know, you start spending less and less time with them because of it. It's like one of those things where Dame wouldn't change.

The way he spoke to people, the way he treated people. He was angry. About what? Bro, you're getting paper. He was angry because he had a strong perspective about his business philosophy. And if any time a partner of theirs

tried to go around him or... Meanwhile, people weren't going around him. The people around him wanted to meet with other people. People wanted more becoming less beholden to him. But he was unaware of it. Then he would like you know while he was building businesses

which partly he was, he would go off all around the world with cameras and girls and all kinds of crazy shit and then come back flipping out on everybody as if, you know. They were wrong. Yeah. Or, like, why'd you guys do all this shit without me?

Like, bro, you didn't build a business that was so operationally tight that you could just go away and come back and shit would be the same and all that shit. It wasn't even like that. Jay grew up. You know, Jay wanted more. I think Jay seen Dame's ceiling.

I mean, I think that's really what it was. I mean, Jay seen Dame's ceiling. You can't fault a man for wanting to get better. No, he wanted more. And everybody wanted more. Dame just had a very particular way of approaching it. He wasn't, he's far from stupid. Right.

Very, very, very smart. Right. Very talented. Ego through the roof. Through the roof. So there was no working with him. Right. No one wanted to work with him.

There was no work. As much talent as he has, nobody wanted to work with him. People got to want to work with him. Right. No one wanted to work with him. There was no work. As much talent as he has, nobody wanted to work with him. People got to want to work with you. Jimmy Iovine had this line, when the shit gets bigger than the cat, you got to get rid of the cat. Right.

How did the beef start between 50 and Ja Rule? That's a good question. Well, I know you know the answer. Yeah. I think 50 knew that Ja was

not who he was portraying as an image. Ja, Jehovah Witness. Jehovah Witness? That's for the rap? I'm not saying they're not supposed to rap, but it was like Ja was coming up with this gangster image. And I was like, that's a stretch for you.

Right. And I think 50, that was one thing. And then they had some like very neighborhood beef. And I remember when we signed 50, there was something going on. I think he snatched Jai's chain or somebody snatched somebody's. It was one of these things. And they had a fight in Atlanta, 54 of them in Atlanta. And it was just like, I didn't even understand it.

I'm like, why do you keep having problems with this guy? It was like he was looking for problems with him, to be honest with you. But I think it was driven by this idea that this image he was portraying that he didn't think was was authentic or whatever and then he had a problem with him and it led to you know big issues and then ja and his guys ran up on 50 in a studio one day right and you know they touched him up um so they ain't gonna never be cool No They're never gonna be cool And now It's kinda I'm happy that it's all

Kinda over with Because it What I don't like At this point Is older statesmen Yeah Like them Still beefing

Because it makes The art form look bad Right You know These guys are Made men now You know Like I love what

Fat Joe's persona is today And I love Obviously what Joe's persona is today. And I love, obviously, what Jay represents and what Nas represents. And, you know, the art form, the leaders of the art form,

you know, doing well, you know, being positive, representing sort of as, not role models, but representing the movement and the culture of hip hop well.

Right. For guys still to be beefing and still associating that and dragging that back in, on the older statesman level, the younger guys should be doing that. That's cool. But, like, the older guys, man, you're in your 40s, bro. Right.

I mean, what are you talking about? You got kids at home. You got wives. We already know this is not what it is, so why are you doing that? I don't like that. But, look, it's also none of my business um but i do always feel like like hip-hop the business of hip-hop culture is something that

um i carry with me so i do have an opinion on it where some people would say steven it's not your business keep doing your thing do you remember when uh 50 crashed the stage with whole did nti yeah um 50 is a wild boy man he's a man he don't mind beefing with anybody he doesn't mind beefing with anybody he likes that thing he he he loves it in fact i think he wants he the attention from it he understand what that brings the best thing to do is to ignore him okay if you ignore him then it's over with because he really is doing it for the attention the attention of it um and by the way that's fine it's a great business tactic right you know because it does bring a lot of attention i just think there's a but like for him now i mean this guy's such a successful producer i don't think he he needs

to do any of that he's a businessman right i don't think he needs to he needs to do that and he's talented man if the people like like power and those shows the bmf shows i'm gonna tell you something right now and this is what you hear first. If that guy, his real talent is comedy. Oofy? Oh, yeah. When he takes what he does in production and apply that to comedy, it's over with. He's that talented. Wow.

That's his thing. Comedy. I was broke, remember Santo, five on four. These days, when the only thing that I know, fail so many times, now I niggas stand strong. So, this is my high school, man. There's a story here that I've never said on camera. I've told my daughter the story.

I'm going to tell it to you. Because it changed my life and I want people to understand it. Wow. When I first came, I didn't try for the football team until I was a junior. We're doing two-a-days, and this shit is killing me. Like, it's killing me. Okay? Like, I'm getting beat the fuck down, and this is a moment that changed my life.

I come off that field. I got my T-shirt on. It's probably day four. I can't do this shit no more I walk out I walk right up this way We walking right now I'ma quit I can't do this no more

I didn't think it meant anything To me I wanna play football I can't do what they're asking me. I want to play football. I can't do what they're asking me to do. Shit is too much. That's what I thought. So I came out. I walked this way.

And I stand up here at this bus stop. While I'm there, one of the coaches sees me. Coach comes by, looks at me, and says, Aren't you on the football team, man? What you doing? I looked at him like, nah, man, I, no, I didn't say I quit. I said, I'm not on the football team. I don't know what he's talking about. Meanwhile, my name's on the back of the jersey. My name's on the back of the jersey. So he walks up. He knew I was lying.

What I did was, I left and I had to accept the fact that I quit. Right. I came back that year as a senior. I did everything I was supposed to do. And made the team. And the last half of the season, I started at running back. The fact that I went back to finish that job that I started, they never let, this football team, Holy Cross,

that's like the premier football in within an hour in this thing. And to come back as a senior and do that was the first time I did something. that's like the premier football in within in our in this in this thing right that that and to come back as a senior and do that was the first time i did something i was successful where i was like man i quit but i couldn't live with that in my heart and i had to come back and do that and that shit changed my life man i told my daughter that story because everything that i did from getting into the advertising business, getting into the music business, there was no clear path.

There was no path for none of it. It was very easy to just say, yo, quit. But you didn't. I didn't quit. I didn't quit. And the one time I did quit, I went back and fixed it So I could erase it

And it became the greatest lesson of my life Had you not gone back Would you be the Steve Stout Absolutely not I swear to God, no way No way If I got away with quitting Because you quit once it's easy to do

Once you quit once it's easy to do Is that one of your greatest lessons? Yeah, that is the greatest lesson I've never seen anyone fail who didn't quit Were you cool with Jay-Z and Nas when they had their beef? Yeah So how did you stay Switzerland and stay neutral? Part of it was easy because I know how much respect they had for one another. I don't know if you've ever been in a situation where two people had respect for one another.

They just never shared it with each other. Correct. And you're sitting in between them thinking if they only knew what each other felt, this would go away. That's what I felt. The part of it that was difficult was the outside pressure of people thinking, how could you be friends with both of them at the same time? You must be passing information or something like that.

There was no information in the past. They had known each other before. They knew each other before me. Actually. They knew each other before me. Actually. They knew each other before me. And the issues that they had had nothing to do with me. It was very unfortunate. To my earlier point

about being an elder statesman, when they had a beef, no guns, nobody got shot. Lyrical. Songs. Right. And you know what?

They made up. As men. Right. In front of everybody. That's what it's supposed to be. They had a conflict. It was handled through music. And they made up publicly.

No one got hurt. No one got no guns. None of that. That's that really did a lot. As far as I'm concerned, for letting people understand that disputes can be handled. Right. Yes.

And that was dope. That was the dope part that came out of it. Jay and I are cousins. Oh? Yeah. I mean, I don't talk about it because there's no reason to talk about it. I went to my grandfather's funeral,

and his grandparent is buried two lots down. It's like one of those type of things. Not knowing. Is that how y'all guys develop a friendship, even though you didn't know? No, we develop a relationship, a over madden and you know you know literally over madden and um there was something there was a business deal that we were working on right he was working on that he wanted that i decided i wanted to be a part of right it was an artist

that we were going to sign and it was a problem and then when we went to some of the problem I was like man. I don't even give a fuck about this little thing I care about really big things and it was the way I talked about my dreams and ambitions for big things right and he's like I Like this guy right and then we became friends became friends. We became very close friends over time. How did you come to manage or be in the presence of Nas after Illmatic? I was representing these producers called the Trackmasters. Okay. masters okay the track masters were are very talented producers who produced for um

biggie they produced their big hit at the time was um candy rain yeah um i love yeah yeah they produced that joint uh mary j blives what have you but they produced they produced under p diddy right and he had this this group called the hitman so you never really got your own just out of it because you were part of a conglomerate your name was just like puff daddy and the hitman so they wanted to get out of the shadows of that and really be the thing. And I, you know, was all for that type of thing. To help get them, set them up, their own business. They didn't have to do all that. So Nas makes Illmatic.

Illmatic comes out. Illmatic is successful. And the first thing the track masses want to do, they produce Biggie. They were making big rap records. They wanted to produce Nas. Everybody wanted to produce Nas. The problem was no one could find Nas.

You know, Nas is an artist's artist. You couldn't find him. Through a series of events, I got to Nas, spent time with him. He trusted me as his manager. And we went to make on make the it was written album and it was written album was his biggest selling album of all time and the first song that the track masters when i put them together they made was i rule the world wow working with nas is uh it's one of the greatest accomplishments i've ever had in my career. Really? Oh, yeah. I was one of the greatest writers of all time in any topic.

Writer. And when you get a chance to work with that level of greatest, one of the best who ever did it, that just doesn't happen, you know? It's a very, it's a privilege to be able to say that you did that. And at the age of 26, 25, 26, when I was doing it, working with him, when we first started, all I knew was that I was working with this artist who was hot and had a, you know, make a big follow-up album. When you look back at it 18 years later, you realize you got a chance to work with one of the greatest who ever did it. How did you get him to adopt a more radio-friendly, a more commercial- friendly rap, considering that he had had success with Illmatic doing his way?

Who's helping you with these questions? I'm just asking you, man. I'm just, you know, we put a lot of time and research into this to make sure we get to know. It was a risk. He bet on me. He trusted me. He believed in me i don't know how he knew to trust me but i spoke to him a lot about the fact that we have to evolve he understood that right he understood that what that meant so that meant making bigger music appealing to more more than... Because his first album, Illmatic, which is

considered one of the greatest rap albums of all time, hadn't sold that much. It wasn't popular, but those who knew it, the purists of the art form, understood it and respected it and held it in high regard. But this was also that plus make money. And we had to make money, which meant we had to, you know, expand and grow, which is what, you know, me coming into the fold and helping him make it was written was about. But how do you get him to understand that? Because I read where in the beginning he didn't really care about money success. He wanted to write.

He was a writer. He wanted he wanted to perfect his craft. But success and fame and money wasn't what it was about. What he knew was the thing was working. There was a very clear line between the artist that was making successful music and looking successful as a result of it. And the artists who were Underground local right couldn't it couldn't get out the local moniker And he didn't want that to be him. So whether it was about caring about money or not

He definitely cared more about Expanding his audience right, right. So he So, it wasn't driven by money. Like, you know, we, but the other thing that was important, Shannon,

was that during that time, making money or being successful was a part of what was successful. Right. People wanted to see, you know,

Versace and ah, ah, ah. That was part of it. So, that was the lifestyle attached to it. To the music.

He didn't care about money, but he did care about being successful. So, you know, my interpretation of that was, let's make bigger music, let's make bigger songs, and let's find the producers and the talent that can help us. And that was let's make bigger music let's make bigger songs and let's find the producers um and the talent that can help us and that was obviously working with the track masters going to get you

know dr dre right to produce uh on that album which nobody had done before making music videos and visuals getting lauren hill to do sing i rule the world la Lauryn Hill. Nobody could get Lauryn Hill. Lauryn Hill is... Lauryn Hill. You know, so the combination of all of that was what led to, you know, us doing something that important. Now you see transition. He's Nas, the businessman,

the big private equity, you know, and all the stuff that we see him a part of. Was that you talking to him like, okay, take it to the next level to be what you want to be? No. I'm going to be honest with you. I introduced Nas to a very dear friend of mine,

Ben Horowitz, who invested in me and United Masses. And I introduced Nas to him because Ben is a tremendous fan of rap music. And, you know, there was this whole idea that people who can move the culture should be involved in technology. Right. You know, because of that, Nas, you know, was able to get going early

in some very important venture investments. Coinbase being one of them, which was big, a ring, the Amazon thing ring. And then, you know, that got him going and he built a VC firm around that. And, you know,

he has mass appeal and, you know, Nas is a great businessman. He's a, Nas is an all-around talent, man. He's a very special person that people love and adore. This concludes the first half of my conversation.

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