Club Shay Shay - Steve Stoute Part 2

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

Steve Stoute and Shannon Sharpe continue on by diving into why artists like Taylor Swift should hold on to their masters rather than sell them for massive payouts. Steve recounts the hilarious story of Kanye West's unexpected freestyle at Steve’s wedding, which may have been a precursor to what happened at the 2009 VMAs. Shannon and Steve explore the business side of the NFL’s partnership with Apple and the Super Bowl Halftime Show, Steve's groundbreaking triumphs with AT&T and a hard-of-hearing football team, and break down the transformative power of a strategic rebrand. From discussing the significance of shared values in brand-influencer partnerships to unraveling the cultural tapestry of Giannis Antetokounmpo's film, the episode weaves together threads of music, sports, and business. Steve's Mount Rushmore of hip-hop, Shannon's heartfelt tribute to LL Cool J, and reflections on the rise of hip-hop as a global phenomenon add layers of depth to this entertaining and enlightening conversation. As Steve Stoute seamlessly transitions from the music industry to broader business landscapes, the episode serves as a masterclass in embracing evolution while keeping the essence of all things legendary intact. Don't miss out on the laughter, insights, and legendary tales shared in this Club Shay Shay rendezvous with the one and only Steve Stoute. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolf. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway.

The seemingly new thing now is people seem to be unloading their catalogs. Taylor Swift did something very unique. She released her entire catalog, and now she got new masters and the record companies are trying to say now they're trying to change agreements yeah yeah there's two types of catalogs you can sell okay one is your publishing catalog which is the your share of writing right which are most artists can sell right their version their portion of writing a song right then there's another side is the catalog which is the master side right most

artists don't own that to sell they don't own that to sell taylor didn't own that to sell right okay that's the reason why she was mad because somebody they sold it to somebody else and she wouldn't give her a chance to buy it. Well, that's... And I'm going to tell you something about that that nobody ever talked about. Her father owned a piece of that company. So I don't know why her father didn't tell her. Her father owned a piece of the company that sold it.

Right. So I don't know how she didn't know any of that. Right. To be frank with you. And I got no horse in this race it was just to me it was just very odd that the beef was so loud that they sold it nobody ever told her about it and i'm thinking well your father benefited from the sale of this right number one number two most artists don't have that which is the reason why i fight for that about ownership of masters

because that's the thing that has all of the long-term value that you could you know your family could benefit from for years to come right which is the reason why you should maintain and own your master rights the multiples that are being paid for these things are really high very very high and for those who can benefit from it it's great which is the reason why again the artist should hold it. To me, it's one of those things that I personally, if I was an artist, I wouldn't sell it. If I owned my catalog, you can get a loan against it, right? Borrow against it, whatever.

It's very valuable. You can license it. Right. But I wouldn't sell it. Because what's happening is as technology changes, it keeps unlocking new value. So it was worth one thing when there was vinyl. And then all of a sudden when CDs came, it became exponentially more valuable because then everybody started rebuying it again. Right.

All of a sudden you started buying Bob Marley's greatest hits or you know whoever Barry White's greatest hits you name the act that you like every time new technology comes out the catalog becomes much more valuable again because people are you know reformatting the music in which they have it on a rebuying that new format right so it's very hard the guy who's buying it is betting that the that the new format change is gonna only lead to more value over time the person selling it thinking it's not if you can afford to get a loan against it or license it you can still get some money without necessarily selling it again that's what I would do but the but the key is to own

it you know you is to own it. If you don't own it, you're not even in this conversation. You can sit here and ask artists, what do you feel about selling catalog? And they'll sit there and tell you, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have any catalog to sell.

Which is, again, fucked up. Is it true at your wedding, Kanye took the mic from Maxwell? Man, how do you know this, man? That happen for real? Man, shut up. Who told you that?

Man. The night has a thousand eyes on most nights. Nah, man. Who told you this? I'm just asking, Steve. I'm just asking a question. I just want to know. My audience want to know.

Maxwell was performing. Kanye got up there and started freestyling. Yes or no, that happened. That's so wild that you know that, man. Anthony, who would tell you that? Yes. Kanye grabbed the mic And started freestyling And

It was Craziness That's all I can say It was crazy So what are you thinking You got Maxwell He's thinking this woman's work Silently

Fortunate Yeah You got Maxwell. He's saying that this woman's work, silently. Fortunate. Fortunate, yeah. Urban Hanksweet. The whole album. Yes. You helped the NFL secure a $250 million deal with Apple. How is Steve Stout able to walk in any building, get a meeting, and can close a deal?

Man, you can have a chicken to be security at the hen house. How? I'm good, man. It's better than it's more toward to that, Steve. No, I'm good at what I do, man. I see it. It's the halftime show.

It's the NFL halftime show. It's all about music. Why wouldn't Apple Music have that? Why wouldn't a music company be there? Pepsi's fine and Bridgestone before Pepsi, but why is it a tire company or Pepsi? A beverage company. Why wouldn't it be Apple Music?

Why isn't that obvious to everybody? I don't even understand. The only thing genius about that is that nobody else seen it, but it was obvious. Being able to speak to Eddie Q and the guys over at Apple, from Tim Cook to

Eddie Q and Oliver, those guys, they love the idea. And the NFL, of course, would prefer to be in business with a company like Apple. Who doesn't want to be in business with Apple? Apple Music. And we did that deal, and it was Rihanna year one, and we know it's Usher this year. I'm sure you're going to be there. You're damn right you'll be there. So, you know, we know it's Usher this year. I'm sure you're going to be there. Damn right, you'll be there. It's Vegas.

So, you know, it's fantastic. I love doing deals and doing business that makes significant impact. And I love the idea more than I care about my own personal, what I personally stand against. Seriously. It's like Bono said something to me a long time ago. You can get anything done as long as you're willing to not take credit. Wow. The idea,

as long as you remove who gets credit for it, then the politics around what makes a great idea come together become much easier to see right yeah and that was one of those types of things i had to get in deep enough to get it done and then i got out of it once i knew we had a deal right but i didn't run around talking i did this deal and yeah for what when you see where the prices are going for these commercials seven eight million dollars for 30 second spots yeah where are we steve where the prices are going for these commercials. $7, $8 million for 30-second spots. Steve, where are we headed? Are we headed $10, $15 million for a 30-second spot?

Yeah. You see where these teams are valued. Yeah. Where these teams are valued, the fact of the matter is, man, the top 100 shows on television, 90 of them are NFL games. Yeah. And the more it becomes rare to get that level of audience around something,

the more they can charge. Because there's nothing else that garners that level of attention at one period of time. If you break it down, it's probably the best money spent. Yeah. You got 100 million you got 100 million

people watching for three hours how about this and oddly enough wanting to see the commercials yes that one event is the only event where people go i can't wait to see the commercial right there's nothing else every every other thing you're trying to skip the commercial get around the commercial absolutely right this is the perfect time to use the bathroom. Not the Super Bowl. Right. That's when people want to watch commercials. So $7 million, $8 million, whatever.

And I think that, I think the NBA Finals and NBA Playoffs, people want to watch these things, man. I would charge more. It's the only game in town. to watch these things, man. I would charge more. It's the only game in town. It's the only thing. Live sports dominate television. Yes. They can charge whatever

they want. And it's worth it. I mean, it's worth it because the attention that you get is very hard to cobble putting together a bunch of other different media. It's just very difficult to get. Have you ever created a Super Bowl commercial? Is that something you liked?

Hell yeah. Man, I did a Super Bowl commercial so long ago, and the shit blew up, and I didn't even realize how big it was. Terry Tate, office linebacker. Yes. Yeah. That's you?

Hell yeah. Do you remember that? I do remember Terry Tate. He just started tackling people in the office. Yes, yes. I did that for Reebok, man. I did you? Hell yeah. Do you remember that? I do remember that. He just started tackling people in the office. Yes, yes. I did that for Reebok, man. I did that for Reebok. This guy was running around with a film of this guy tackling people in the office.

He's a famous director now, Rossin Thurber. And he had this young guy showing this film. I seen it. And we represented Reebok. We pitched it to Reebok. And literally, it was a Reebok.com we pitched it to Reebok and literally it was a Reebok.com commercial. Go to Reebok.com and that thing went crazy. Terry Tate office linebacker. I remember that. We're the agency, the creative solutions company, as I like to call us, because that's what we do.

We solve bigger problems for the NBA has been a client of ours for many years. State Farm, all those State Farm commercials that, you know, Aaron Rodgers and Chris Paul, Cliff Paul. We've done all that work for years. And now AT&T is one of our clients. It's been our clients for four or five years. But I want to talk to you about because we're going to talk about this special. What makes this helmet special? Yeah. What we did here, man, which I'm very proud of, is a lot of times people talk about advertising and it's like selling stuff. Right. But I like to really think about how do you use the power of advertising to tell a story or solve problems? And we found out about the story about Gallaudet, which is a school for deaf or hard of hearing. Hearing impaired.

There was a time where hearing impaired players actually made it to the pros. There were a few of them who made it to the pros. I played with one my second year, Kenny Walker. Went to the University of Nebraska. He was hearing impaired. So then, perfect. So now what happens is, as you start

putting in technology in the helmets, now you can call audibles. If you're playing quarterback or linebacker, you can't even compete if you're hearing impaired. So we've seen this problem. We took it to AT&T and the great team over there. They actually wanted to see how could we help solve this problem using 5G technology. So what we did was, we worked on this for three years, Shannon. This helmet has a special chip here.

And this chip allows players who are hard of hearing to actually see the play versus just hearing it. Right. So the coach takes this, and literally, I can put the play in here, flex, play action Pittsburgh right so that's the play to coach course and I can just put in the audible right here and the audible comes up on this visually Wow so the player gets to see

this this is a game change we put this on these players. It changed their lives, man. This play saying, I got the speed. I got the vision. I got the eyesight. I got everything. As a professional athlete, I just can't hear. I'm hearing impaired. So they're using this now.

They're using this right now, man. They're using this right now. It's one of the most things I'm most proud of that we did that. And we're changing people's lives. So when I say that we are a creative solutions company, that's not advertising, man. That's coming up with new ideas that's going to help change people's lives. Right. It's much bigger than advertising. Right.

Right. You're the consultant for the Knicks. You did some work to make the Knicks cool. Well, I moved the Knicks from Newark to Brooklyn. Right. Right. So we did that very early. We also represent the Big 12. Yes, to make them cool. Yeah, well the Big 12, what's going on in college sports is so

crazy now because the rules have changed, bro. The NIL. Between NIL deals, between the relocation of the big teams. The relocations of every team. It used to be regional, right? Yes.

Like you, if you play for the big East and you were in the big East, you could go from there and be there. The region regions don't even matter. A lot of it. I still think I have a problem because of what it does to the student athlete. The fact that you got to travel across the country. How could you even study?

How could you actually get your schooling together if you're playing in different time zones? Yeah, like USC and UCLA coming to the Big Ten. Yeah. How? That's a lot, right? But anyhow, between NIL deals and the fact that these teams are changing conferences so fast, recruiting, materials, recruiting, materials around recruiting, how you market your teams, how you market your team and your program changes dramatically.

Look, man, at the Big 12, we just got Colorado, right? You want to have Colorado. And I'm sure everybody was pitching Colorado, the ADA in Colorado to get them. You know, we put together the materials to help make them very successful. I work with Brett Urmark, who's the commissioner of the Big 12. I worked with him when he was at the Brooklyn Nets, when we moved him from New Jersey to Brooklyn. And I work with him now for the Big 12 and love working with Jim Dolan. Very, very misunderstood man, but talented as hell, loyal as hell.

How do you go about rebranding? Because to rebrand something, people have an idea or perception of what it is. How do you change that perception? There's a lot of different things that go into it. How it sounds, you know, the sonics of the brand. Like, you know, when we did i'm loving it for mcdonald's you remember those but you also remember that that that that right so sonically those are branding elements that you have to deal with the texture and tone um the when you

sometimes you ever watch a tv commercial and because it has a white background already you kind of know what it is before it comes on there's certain colors that you can tell colors play a very important role in branding so sometimes when you're rebranding you you play with colors right you play with sounds it's not just casting right like oh let's just use this famous person or let's you know put two white guys and one black guy and make it different and like things like that it's really understanding the totality of what leaves an impression with somebody breaking that down and figuring out what aspects of that story that you're going to pull together in order to retell that story um it's a craft it's very it's it's craftsmanship. And, you know, most people, unfortunately, think that just throw a famous person against this and close your eyes and they'll fix it.

Yeah. You know, a lot of times putting famous people against brands, two things happen. You don't believe it. Right. right so there's a celebrity and the brand have shared values right shared values what do we have in common so that when people see us together they go oh that makes perfect sense because that's how they rock right so that's successful partnerships around shared values or you put them together and they're just expensive ideas that nobody ever believes like you put i used to always use like you know back in the days like who believed that tiger woods drove a buick you know like how are we gonna get how are we gonna get this off like how are we gonna figure this one out you know and so there's a there's a lot of bad ideas like that right now to this very when you look at it and you're like

are you serious the other thing i tell a lot of you know uh guys in the music business specifically because all this brand money is coming at them is you got to be careful who you choose as a partner because when they sign the deal it's one thing you get a check you feel good but when they fire you for lyrics or fire you for behavior that you was actually doing when they hired you correct but it's really loud now because getting fired is a loud thing you famous you got fired you got let go be careful about those people man not every check is a good check right and make sure you are going into a partnership with somebody because these brands i will tell you man they will sign

you and as soon as they feel any temperature they cut bait and they will cut bait and it will be loud and you will look as if you did something that they were completely unaware of which is the exact same thing that made you famous is why they got in business with you choosing a brand partner is almost as important as choosing a life partner oh yeah because the brand partner can affect your reputation 1,000% when they let you go or they say something about you because they parted ways with you however you know eloquently they decide to to say that you guys parted ways there's a stench on your name as if you're not because what do you think the other brands do

don't mess with that person right right as a result of that so again that becomes contagious so you have to be very careful who you partner with because some of them they're not in it for the partnership they're just in it for the quick burn of fame how many followers you got how many likes you got this that and the third they're not really invested in you they don't give a shit about you they care about that and as soon as that gets a little bit tainted a little bit uneasy because you said a word that they didn't know or somebody didn't those are in your lyrics already man right you know um so i'm i always give that advice and anybody watching this that's a musician or look at or influencer make sure you

pick your partners correctly make sure they're really your partners how do you strike the how do you strike a balance because you said you left the music injury in industry to get into advertising so how do you strike the balance between athlete and brand because you have a vested interest on both sides because a lot of these athletes you have a relationship with yeah and obviously a lot of these athletes you have a relationship with. And obviously a lot of these brands you have a relationship with. And you want to continue to foster that on both sides. Because there actually is a true sweet spot between athletes and brands. There is a great relationship.

If you look at TV, you see some of these commercials, and you're like like what about this story that they're telling is actually going to help make this athlete look aspirational important like they're doing something that really matters sometimes they actually use the athlete and make them look like dumb jocks mm-hmm sad enough to say they make them look like that versus somebody who you should look at as a rare unique special talented individual who's more than an athlete okay to quote lebron and what they do like but if you but if you work with people who are not willing to get deeper past the surface

to help tell those stories then you're going to end up with commercials where the athlete says two words and try not to let them talk too much and just put everything around them and just cut around them that's not that's not business they're not making that much money off of that anyway why are you even doing it right you got 10 million dollars 15 million dollars 20 million dollar guaranteed contracts they're not paying you that much money to do the commercial. So only do it if it's doing something to help manage up your image. And you ask Chris Paul, you ask LeBron, you ask Jason Tatum, you ask anybody who works with me.

There's nothing that I do unless I can look at it and go, did we do something to elevate your image? Did we do something to tell a story that you always wanted to tell, but this is the greatest outlet to tell that story? If we're not doing that, we're not doing no business. That's not, I don't work that way. I'm looking at some of the athletes that you work with in entertainers.

Giannis, Lil Baby, John Morant, Clay, Meg. Giannis, man, Giannis, we told a story. We showed a film., Clay, Meg. Giannis, we told a story. We showed a film. Going back, when he talked really intimately about the fact that he'd go to Greece, Greek, because he's Greek, he'd go to Greece, go home,

and they'd look at him like he was a black guy. So there was a certain level of race tension around that, racist tension. And then he'd be in Africa, and they'd look at him like he was a white guy from Greece, and how he had to live within the balance of that and the power he found in growing up in those two worlds we told a beautiful story about that with uh uh with with with uh his partners at um whatsapp whatsapp is the global communications company right and very few artists athletes are as global as Giannis.

And we told that story through that lens, man. I mean, that's the kind of stuff I love doing. You shouldn't have to worry when you buy tickets to your next big event. Game time is the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all your sports, music, comedy, and theater events near you. With killer last minute deals, all in prices, views from your seat, and the best price guaranteed. GameTime takes the guesswork out of buying tickets. GameTime is the only ticket app that gives you complete peace of mind with your purchase. See the view from your seat before you buy so you know exactly what to expect when you arrive. All in prices show you the total up

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Redeem the code SheaShea for $20 off. Download GameTime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest price guaranteed. I watched you for the last two and a half years i'm just wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast nfl daily with greg rosenthal five days a week you'll get all the latest news previews recaps and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here.

Just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would

be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast of NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the FS1 show. How long have you been on that show? Four years? I was on that show for seven years. We came in together. Skip started.

We started the show in 2016. It was a great run. I watch you on the show, and I watch you get better over time. And when you started getting comfortable and bringing in all of your natural self to the table, it was a game changer. Yeah. It was a game changer. Well, that's the thing.

When you were sneaking in those lines with the Browns, the Bracken Miles and all that, and then social media started to pick it up. Yeah. And you know the right delicate balance, which is very hard. it to pick it up yeah and you know the right delicate balance which is very hard the producer craig barry is a friend of mine who produces um inside the nba inside that show yep and it's that's the magic how do you get that talk off while still being an expert at the core thing which is sports correct correct did you think that 50 years what it started 50 years ago hip-hop and you said it was in its infancy when when ll was doing what you know you could go to the mall you could see ll and you could see run dmc hanging out in the mall and you could see the battles did you think

it would be what it is today i mean you're, no, no, no. I knew what I... I never thought the music would be this big. I knew that the other things around it would be big. Right. The clothing. Right. The style. I never thought the music...

I never thought at any point in time it was going to be the number one music in the world. I didn't think that. I remember I used to go to France. If you do your thing out there, you have no idea what happened. So I went to Cannes and I seen graffiti

and I was like, when I see graffiti, every time I see graffiti, it makes me think the culture has touched this place. I get comfortable around graffiti. Right. Because I know there's people

who are trying to say something and they're looking for a canvas to say it. Right. I love that. I love that. I've always loved that. You say LL's from Queens.

I mean, we go, LL was the first. I mean, the guy that was the first I mean the guy that. That's who you like when you came out? Yeah man L was it. You know look I love when L and Kool Moe D battled. I grew up on. How old are you? 55. I'm 53. All right. So we used to go. But you lived in the rurals. Yeah. And how are you getting the music? I grew up about 65 miles from Savannah. And they would come to the Civic Center. Kumo D, the Fat Boys, Run DMC, Houdini.

And you went, of course. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Because LL and I are about the same age. Yeah. And so anytime that they were coming to Savannah We were there And they had a show

They had Houdini They had LL They had Run DMC I mean it was like seven groups And it was unbelievable And everybody knew all the words Every last one of them LL Cool J was a

I mean is a star I don't think he get the credit he deserved though LL Cool J was a was a was a I mean is a star I mean he I don't think he get the credit he deserved though wow he's a yeah I no I'm talking about

the commercial but I'm saying when you talk about great rappers don't nobody mention L you know what L yeah

you're just funny man who would he be in sports I have an argument all the time. This is funny to me. Everybody, like, there's a certain style that people appreciate more. So they don't give a different version of that approach the same amount of credit. So, oh, was he as great as a lyricist as Rakim or Kane? No.

No. Was he a better total package? Absolutely. Yes. That's why he still has a career to this day. He made bad albums. He made bad albums. He made really good albums, then he'd made bad.

He used to go through this pattern where he would experiment and make bad albums. He made really good albums, then he'd made bad. He used to go through this pattern where he would experiment and make bad albums. He'd probably tell you that what was considered a quote-unquote bad album was learnings for the album that came after that. That was great. But he was willing to take chances and make big records as a result of it. So he doesn't get the credit for that. But a lot of the guys that do get a lot of credit, you realize, had really short careers. Yeah. Really short careers. Yeah. Really short careers.

Yeah. In sports, I use this analogy, like, you know, everybody thinks, you know, Mike Tyson is, I mean, obviously Mike Tyson is a larger-than-life figure. Mike Tyson was probably great for four years. Yes. Yes. Yes. Four. You know what I'm saying?

Four where you couldn't even touch him. Nope. And then after that, he became whatever affected his life. Right. It all changed. Correct. You know, a lot of these guys who get more credit than LL Cool J as rappers really have short careers. Because if you think about it, Big and Tupac.

Short careers. What was Tupac? Five years? Biggie five years? Yeah. If that? Yeah. Listen, man, you ain't got to tell me. That's why there should be statues of Nas and Jay-Z.

For sure. These guys who endured the entire... They were there before and after. Yes. To go through the gauntlet of what it was, whether it was East Coast, West Coast beef or drugs or drug dealers or just whatever the issues were that comes with being a young man in your 20s and millions of dollars in attention, media attention, global attention. You know, people want to kill you, whatever it may be. To avoid all of that, to get to the other side. Yeah. They should have monuments. Well, I tell you what, since you're close to my age and you, like I said,

Big Daddy Kane, KRF1, you know, Marley Mar, I mean, you know them all. Em, Hove, Weezy, Nas, give me your four goals. If we had a Mount Rushmore, give me a Mount Rushmore. You do this all the time.

I sure do. I sure do. Let me see if I have to throw your list out the window. I'm going to roll this window down. I better throw your list out the window. Well, let me just ask you this question before we get to the list. Okay. Are we factoring in tenure?

Because if I just took everybody's best album and to base it off of that that'd be different than if I yeah but I don't I don't I don't think you can say who's the best running backs of all time right well you can't say who ever had the best year because there are a lot of there are a lot of running backs that had better years than had a better year than Emmett had a better year than than Jim Brown had a better year than Walter Payton but that doesn't make but it goes into the longevity yeah but if I ask people who the best running back of all time is, they don't immediately go to Emmitt who has more. No, no, no, no, no.

None of them are probably going to say Emmitt. They'll probably say Barry Sanders. They'll say Walter Payton. They'll say Jim Brown. You know, I think it's all, Barry, even though Barry never won a championship. And would lose a lot of yards and a lot of carries. But it was the style.

He was so electric. People like the style. He was so electric. People like that style. He was so electric. Jim was a man amongst men. I mean, he led the league in rushing like eight times in nine years. He won the MVP as a rookie. Walter Payton was sweetness. Bad offensive line, but he still gave people that work.

So people like that for uh like i said uh as far as lyricists krs was one of my favorites but and for the longest time i was on this thing like it was tupac for me but after like like the last two weeks of just listening to Wayne and I love him. Yeah. Weezy Wayne is ridiculously talented. For me, it would be just

ability, superb ability, marksmanship. It's Nas, Jay, Biggie, Rakim. Yeah, Rakim. Yeah, Rakim was like, yeah. And then that other spot, you done got them all.

You ain't got the four spots. I would take those four. And I love Eminem is nice. Eminem has a unique gift about him. The way his cadence, how he raps and puts words together around that cadence is special. Wayne is as good

as anybody wayne wayne and his career is amazing yeah you're talking about longevity i mean the dude with a 13 year old no wayne is wayne is wayne is a special dude man wayne is a special dude for me he just reasonable doubtasonable Doubt and Illmatic. I mean, Jay has more albums. Nas has a couple more albums. But that body of work is just so strong. And it hits me right here. Where Wayne does that to like, if I ask Rich Paul this question, Rich Paul would immediately have Wayne, like Jay-Z Wayne.

Right. He'd have Wayne right there. Right. Yeah, because it's just younger. Yeah. like Jay-Z Wayne. Right. He'd have Wayne right there. Right. Yeah, because he's just younger. Yeah. And he spoke to him. Right. What about Kane?

People don't get Kane to credit either. Yeah, Kane. Kane had his, Kane was tight. Kane was tight. His career was short. That'd be the problem with short careers, man. But if you go back and look at it, if you think about it, guys didn't have 10, 15 year careers. You got to have more than two albums.

Yeah, but L is an anomaly. To be able to do what he did in the 80s and here he is doing what he's doing right now. No, but you got to stick to your craft, man. You got to make two, three, four, five, six albums. you got to make two three four five six albums you gotta make you got to keep making music so you want so you got a guy you know what it is for these guys Shannon you grew up in the projects fine you go to the projects and you're writing your first album based off of everything you went through your entire life.

Correct. Right? So you have 18 years, 20 years of material. Right. To make this first album. Right. When you make your second and third albums, now you're using the material that happened between when you put out the first album and that second album. But now there's money, there's women, there's access.

So now all of a sudden your material starts to fade because you're indulging in all this other stuff. There's a difference. You don't live that same type of lifestyle. Now you move to L.A. Now you're writing about something else. So a lot of times it's very hard to write that second, third. Second, you can still get away with off the fumes of the first album.

The third album becomes really hard. Oh, forget it. Look, most artists who had a great first and second album fail miserably on the third album. It's so hard to draw from the grit that you had before you made the first album. And then now, okay, fine. Can you get back to it now?

Right. A lot of times they can't get back to it, and it just slowly falls off. LL went back to it. LL made Mama Said Knock You Out. Right. He made all that shit, made went like this and then boom mama said knock you out he came back kane didn't make mama said knock you out honestly rakim didn't make mama said knock you out they couldn't make it they couldn't find that record seven years later

he said he made mama said knock You Out And Round The Way Girl Yeah Oh and that one he had And then he made Years after that You're Jingling Baby Jingling Baby Remix Then he made Love You Better After that

He has a phenomenal Hey Lover Yeah Yeah I worked on that album That was 95 Yes Hey Lover and Doing It Well

That was 95 Oh Yes. Hey Lover and Doing It Well. I was 95. Oh, man. By the way, that's 95. He was dropping records in 87. I have a trick. But 95 came around. I don't even know where Kane and Rakim was. I'm bad.

Nah, I'm bad as well. Don't do that. Don't do that, FD. Don't do that. Don't do that. I ain't going to let you do that now. Come on now. Listen, I'm an LL don't do that Don't do that Don't do that Don't do that I ain't gonna let you do that now Come on now Listen

I'm an LL Cool J fan too The dance routine In I'm Bad Where he did the shark fin I noticed what you was doing Yeah That wasn't the real thing right there That was a little too much

And I'm going back to Cali By the way Huge Record That's a risk That artists wouldn't take Listen huge record. That's a risk that artists wouldn't take. Listen to that beat. That's a risk that artists wouldn't take. That was on the Less Than Zero

soundtrack. That was, look at the video, artsy, black and white, very, very avant-garde. Like, that was way ahead of its time. Those are the risks that those guys wouldn't make. That he was willing to make. He's a true artist.

And he does deserve way more credit than he deserves as an artist. That's all I wanted you to say. Now we can move on to conversation. See? But he was one of the first also to have commercial appeal outside of the rap game. Doing FUBU. We had the Gap stuff. Yeah.

The Gap stuff stuff I don't know if you he did something in the gap commercials one of the most gangster shits I've ever seen before he's in the gap commercial and he has a FUBU hat on yeah do you remember the rap I don't remember but I remember let me tell you the rap forget it wasn't that he had the hat on like damn this thing is in a gap commercial with a FUBU hat on gap people didn't even know what that was right whatever that thing was right in the commercial he raps and says for us by us on the low that's in the rap right they don't even know that's what he said he said for us by us on the low every other commercial for the game for the

guy they don't even know what on the low means they don't even know what for us by us mean right they think he's just saying for us by us right i don't know some rapper shit right because i had damon john on and he was he was telling he was telling me that story about L shooting a commercial and doing a rap and had it on. One of the guys from Queens who started FUBU with Damon is a guy named Keith. We went to kindergarten through third grade together. So there was also some great entrepreneurs, obviously from Queens as well, helped start start FUGO I mean y'all be look Queens like I said you guys y'all get overshadowed

because obviously you know Brooklyn has some of the names but if you look at what you guys were able to do as far as not only just music but culture and the clothing and merchandise would you consider that Run DMC brought fashion into hip-hop?

Because they had the leather Adidas. That's why I'm wearing leather pants. Leather pants. Or the shell-toed Adidas with the fat-strewed shoestring. The big ropes. Yeah. Prior to Run DMC, guys were looking like, if you look at some of the early, even kind of like Sugar Hill Gang.

But after Sugar Hill Gang, if you look at Africa Bambaataa, they were dressing more like Earth, Wind & Fire. Yes. Like a lot of costumes. Yes, yes. And then Run DMC, because of God Bless, Jam Master Jay said, let's dress like those D-Boys. Right. So they dressed like the way street guys dress drug dealers were dressed and that's and when they put that look on

can go shell toe leather blazer this kind of third then they look like they was getting that money right it wasn't about that costume it was a complete uh left turn from what those guys are doing. And that was huge. How big was Supreme? The name says it all, man. I mean, Supreme Team was Queens. They ran the streets of Queens. And they were a presence not to be fucked with. Right.

And, you know, to me, I actually never met Supreme. I've seen him before, but he was, you know, a big larger than life figure that that had a, you know, a big organization that were street guys that like the party, you know, and they were like part of the business. this. So yeah, they were big. I mean, they were big. Supreme Team was big. Then years later, BMF was big, coming out of Atlanta. What is it about D-Boys and rap and rapping D-Boys that seem to be so interwoven? Well, the kids come from the artists are coming from the street. So as a result of the artists coming from the street, the guys that of the artists coming from the street the guys that around them and the guys they idolize they probably at some point worked for right with the street guys and sometimes the street guys are the first guys to give them money it was the startup money you know go make this music go into the studio what have you and that's a lot what led to

you know what got them going so that them going. So that's the connection. But the truth of the matter is, even prior to the fact that that was the guys they looked up to and gave the money, that's what the fans wanted. So you were emulating the street guy. So a lot of these guys, very few of them really are street guys, rappers. They were more emulating street guys because that works with the fans how have you been able to create the music the advertising with some of the most successful companies in the world you started in the music business yeah you transition to the advertising and you work with a

lot of these Fortune 500 companies. How have you been able to transition and parlay that your music, your advertising and with some of these Fortune 500 companies? How have you been able to do that so successfully? Early on, it was hard. It was hard for two reasons. I wasn't necessarily good at it. I didn't go to college and I dropped out of college, so I didn't have any formal training and the credibility that comes with that formalized training to go into Fortune 500 companies and be like...

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Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is what you should do. And then the second thing is the thing I was trying to recommend them doing was really tapping into culture. And the culture that I was leaning on was hip-hop culture. And that was tainted with gangsters and all kinds of reputational

issues so you got me coming in with no formal training and talking about something that is related to something that they don't even think is brand friendly um and then i would say you know to the ceo because i'm really good at talking to people so So I speak to the CEO and I'm like, ask your 17-year-old at home about this. Because if they had a teenager at home, I'm going to win. And I would speak to them about things that I knew was not necessarily on their radar screen, but it was the next generation's concern.

Next generation's something they celebrated. And I call that future-proofing. If you want to future-proof your business so that the next generation is excited and you're relevant to them, then you should listen to what I'm saying because I'm talking about something that may not necessarily relate to you,

but it relates to the next person coming down the line. And CEOs who are open-minded to listening to that were the ones I've had the most success with. And their business has benefited. And the first thing I, the first thing I did, I mean, it's written about what was the Reebok work, man. I mean, you got Reebok. I told the, the, the, the CEO, Paul Feynman, founder of Reebok. I said, I don't care. This is a 2000, 2002, maybe. I said to Paul, I said, Paul, there's nothing you can do to make kids believe they can jump higher or run faster in a pair of

Reeboks over a pair of Nikes. There's no chance. Take that idea that you're going to beat them at that game completely out of your mind. So then he started talking further he was intrigued by that by the certainty i had with that belief and he started talking about brown shoes i'm like why do you say brown shoes he goes because people wear brown shoes to work i said paul no they don't kids are wearing sneakers to work right in fact they're not even wearing the sneakers because they want them to perform well they wear them because they like the color in it because it matches this shirt it matches their hat so we need to actually go and play and pay that play that game and pay attention to that consumer and that's what led to Reebok

RBK and then we started thinking about like who are some of the people that you could work with that would fit and sort of be the cohort? The cohort is the prototype for this thing. And it was Jay-Z. I'm like, this guy, he don't like to move a lot at all. He don't like to sweat, you know? Right. And he's the perfect person to be the lifestyle ambassador. And we created not an ambassadorship, but we actually created a brand called the S Carter,

which was the first of its kind, an original sneaker that was Reebok powered and made it. And that was successful. And then we did the G units and then the ice creams by Pharrell. And we built a business around Reebok that changed the brand. It made them go from a brand that was relegated to like third and fourth place to something that was aspirational because they were tapping into the culture more by you know tapping into

these artists and what these artists represented. So how do you go about building a strong lasting valuable relationship in. In business. Yes. Yeah. You know, I think it's the fundamentals of anything, man. You got to do what you say. You got to always do what you say. You can't say anything that you don't mean.

So do you under-promise and over-deliver? No. No. I over-promise and over deliver. So you over problem. You tell people you're going to do something. Yeah. And then you times it. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing. You push yourself. If I tell you I'm going to do something, it means so much to me to live up to my word. I'll ask somebody when I hire them. Six months later, eight months later, did I tell you anything in that interview process that I haven't done? up to myself specifically on that topic because I don't want to use my brain as a weapon and tell you something and be convincing to you and actually have no intent or don't follow through on it. I just think that that's a terrible use of talent. Right. So I do talk about my stretch goals, which is the over promise. I'm going to do this. We're going to do this. We do that. But I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a visionary. As a visionary, your job is to see things before other people see it.

Correct. I'm used to being in that uncomfortable place of seeing something early. So I make those promises and I do everything I can to over deliver against that. The funniest thing is that you guys don't get penalized for being wrong. You're wrong, there's no problem. All you guys should have done is jail him in the hurts. But you don't think he's improved? He did lose his job in Alabama because he couldn't throw consistently.

That's why Tua got the job. Yeah. But even in the pros, if you look at him from his rookie year to where he is now, he's increased his throwing percentage by 10%. That's huge. His accuracy. Yes.

Yes. You said 10%? 10. He was barely he's like in the high 60s as opposed to the low 60s. 50, the high 50s. You don't think that has anything to do with Antonio Brown? AJ. AJ, yeah. Of course. Of course. But you have to understand,

think about what he had in Alabama. And then what he had in Oklahoma. So, yeah, giving him that. But he improved. He put the work in. I don't want to shortchange him and just say it's AJ. He put the work in. He put a lot of work in.

Because you can see him get exponentially better and his confidence grow. There's not that many basketball players that came from Queens. There's some, but not Kenny Anderson. Kenny Anderson, probably Kenny Smith. Yeah. Kenny Smith's from right over here.

Kenny's from Luffrac, which is right over here. Right. Kenny Anderson's from over here. There's a couple, but not like all the way. Right. All the way.

What place you think is more overrated where football talent comes from? Well, we know Texas and Florida. Texas, Florida, California. Georgia is right there. Georgia, Florida, California.

It's the southern states where the weather is nice the majority of the time. Louisiana. You mean where people are running in the heat. You call that nice? I'm just saying if that's what you call nice. It needs to be warm. How about hot? New York is hot or warm more times than it is cold.

You might get one or two from New York or some culture. Saquon? Like Saquon's from New Jersey? Yeah. Mika? Now, Saquon's from... Isn't he from Aliquippa? He's from Pennsylvania. Isn't he? Yeah, Pennsylvania. Okay think what make ones from uh, even Aliquippa. He from Pennsylvania

Any no up. Yeah, Pennsylvania. I'm sorry That's not the South. No, but I'm saying you know, I'm sorry what the sounds about the New York I'm talking about this area. That's all y'all ain't got no Hasburg The weather's not nice in these places. Bro, you just named two places the weather's not nice. I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about. Y'all got like four people in the NFL.

Georgia got like 30. California and Texas got like 50. I'm not even... The last thing I'm doing is comparing New York football. We give y'all a little basketball problem. No, no, no. Not a little. I mean, New York basketball.

No, no, no, no. Y'all used to have that. When y'all had Dr. J, Kareem, and all those guys, it ain't the same no more. Where does Kyrie come from? It ain't the same no more.

Where does Kyrie come from? Where does Kyrie come from? I mean, it ain't the same. No. It ain't the same. It ain't the same. No, it's not the same.

Because, you know, because now guys, the guys go, they go to other, they go, It ain't the same. No, it's not the same. Because, you know, because now guys, the guys go, they go to other, they go, I mean, they might be born from here. But, you know, they go now, they go play to Mount Vernon. They go to Oak Hill and they go to things like that. And finish the IMG Academy and things like that nature. Guys are not being from an area playing at a high school like, okay, and moving on. That ain't happening no more. What do you think about the transfer portal and what it's going to do to college sports?

Man, I don't know. And what do you think, right next to that, is as much as I'm so for college athletes getting their fair share. Right. LeBron and I and Maverick did a documentary on this. Did a thing called Student Athlete. Right. We followed four student athletes, man. Right. One of them got hurt.

No health care. Yeah. Fucked up. The whole thing. But, guy walking around campus with $5 million. Yeah, for sure. Because there's no guarantee.

Like you said, he get hurt. And then he can't play in the NFL. He can't play in the NBA. Yeah. Well, he got $5 million. He got a great head start on life. Get it. I wish they didn't get $10 million.

But I just saw the quarterback from Ohio State and Oklahoma is in the portal. Right now? Yes. Why? The starting quarterback? Starting quarterback of Ohio State, starting quarterback from Oklahoma are in the portal. Looking to get better deals? Yep. Oh, I thought guys

were going in the portal because they were not going to start. So they were like, oh, let me go in the portal because I can get a better opportunity somewhere else. But if you already started Ohio State, you started in Oklahoma, where are you going? That's what I'm trying to figure out. What are they doing? Money. Somebody go give me an opportunity. Like Caleb, you don't think Caleb Williams had an opportunity to make money in Oklahoma?

But think about what he got at USC. What do you think about him right now? I think he's going to be the number one pick. Can make every throw. He's athletic. Great improvisational skill. Have you spoken to him before? I have not.

I'm trying to figure out if this is head on right. I think the thing is, what they're going to ask is like, bro, I mean, I think his defense was terrible. what they're going to ask is like, bro, I mean, I think his defense was terrible, but they're going to ask, bro, you that good? I mean, you couldn't win like none of these shootouts? But I like him. I think he's good. I think he's going to really be good. I think there's a lot of quarterbacks

in this draft, but it's like anything. I mean, you don't really know. I mean, Brock Purdy was a seventh round draft pick. These guys in the NFL are really not as good as they think they are at picking talent. No, no, no, no. It's like anything. It's just

like you picking horses. It don't guarantee your horse going to Derby or the Peekness or the Bellknocks or Santa Anita. You don't know. What do you think about this whole idea of not even giving these guys a chance to warm up to get

their game together and just throwing them out there like that? Because... You think that's the right thing to do? Because here's the thing... I know they can pay them short money and they can find out. But see, the thing is, because I need to know by that third year before I give a guy a $300 million contract. You mean to tell me I gotta give a guy $300 million and I don't know if he can play?

The Giants don't know if that quarterback can play. They paid him. They knew he couldn't play. But they didn't have no options. They didn't have to pay Daniel Jones. Where are they going to go? Go with Tommy DeVito? Before we even know Tommy DeVito, they could have known they didn't have to pay that man $160 million.

But they paid him based on last year. They disregarded all the things that they had done up until that point. And they said, you know what? We believe this is the guy we're going to get moving forward. They did the same thing with Carson Wentz. Yeah. But Carson had, you know, Carson was about to be the MVP until he tore his knee up in week 13.

He's going to be the MVP until he tore his knee up in week 13. He's going to be the MVP. It's a special type of quarterback that's good, get paid, and then get better. You look at the Bradys, the Mannings, you look at the Patrick Mahomes, you look at those guys, the Rodgers, those guys. The Rodgers.

Aaron Rodgers. Oh, Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, when he was in Green Bay. Yeah. Get paid. Excuse me. And get better. Dak.

Yeah. Dak has been very impressive this year. He's been very impressive this year. Are you watching the games? Yeah, I am watching the games. Have you watched? Every single play. Okay.

So you watched it for seven, eight years, right? Yes. Okay, so you know the history, right? Yeah. Okay. I... I... I...

Yeah. He... I have not... In big games, I have not seen him. Okay. Against the 49ers two years ago. Against the 49ers last year. And the year before that?

I said two years ago. That would be two years ago. They played. They 49ers beat them twice. Back-to-back years of the playoffs. I just said two years. Last year and the year before. Okay, what about this year?

The regular season? Did you see that game? 42-10? Did you watch that game? Yeah. I don't know. I don't understand why you would turn it off. I didn't understand that game.

What didn't you understand? You understand good old-fashioned ass whipping. I don't understand why the defense could not slow them down. I don't know why the Dallas defense got, well, why your offense couldn't score. But 10 points? You just talked about Dak.

I know, I know. You just told me about Dak. The Dak City thing wasn't working back then. It's on fire right now. Okay. You're going to see him in the playoffs. But yeah, that was... Listen, I don't disagree with you.

Dak makes really bad mistakes. I, I, it's shocking to me. Sometimes he's shocking. You don't even like Brock Purdy. It's not about like or dislike. I got to evaluate a guy on what I've seen. I need, I need to see more consistency. You making your, you making. making your girl... He's one.

You making a chick your girl after a couple of dates? No. Oh, you want some consistency? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's what I'm saying. You think Justin feels they can get a third round pick for him? Yeah, I think they get more than a third. They're in great shape then.

They're in great shape. Would you trade them? Yeah, I think they get more than a third. Then they're in great shape then. They're in great shape. Would you trade them? I would. I don't believe me personally. I don't believe they're going to pass up the chance. Well, yeah, I don't think they would pass up because it looks like they're going to get Carolina. They have Carolina.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're going to have their own. Yeah, the first and fourth. So, and with Justin Fields, Yeah, that's first and foremost. So, and with Justin Fields, if I can get me a top-notch veteran player, because there are a lot of teams that's going to need quarterbacks. I just think Justin Fields needs a change of scenery.

I don't think he's a bad quarterback. He's right. I just think he needs a change of scenery in Chicago. Indeed. he's a bad quarterback. He's right. I just think he needs a change of scenery in Chicago. Indy? They just drafted a Richardson with the fourth pick in the draft. He got hurt.

That's right. He was playing good too. But, let me see who. The Raiders could use a quarterback. You don't think the Raiders

could use a quarterback? Pittsburgh could use a quarterback. They don't want to agree on that yet. There's still no denial about that kid. Who? Pickett. Man, please.

The fans about to start picketing. I'm going to ask you a question that's separate of topic. When you got to Baltimore. Yes. And you seen Ed and Ray? Ed wasn't there when I was there. He came after you? He came after me.

He came after I had went back to Denver. Oh, so you never got a chance to play with Ed? I never got a chance. I played against him. I didn't play with him. You played him against him when you were in Denver? Yes. Have you ever seen anybody like that? No. No.

No. He's the greatest safety ever. I played against him. Took off on him. He's phenomenal. Peyton Manning tells stories. He told a story on the... Manning cast?

Not the Manning cast. He told a story on when the NFL did the 100 greatest... Oh, yeah. He told a story, but... Oh did the 100 greatest. Yeah. He told a story, but Ed picked him. Ed picked him. Well, Ed hid in the shadows of Lucas Stadium in the oil. In Lucas Oil Stadium that he couldn't count him. He couldn't find him in a pre-snap read.

And that was, he told me that story live. Right. That he couldn't find him in a pre-snap read. And that was, he told me that story live. That he couldn't find him in a pre-snap read. Wasn't the other safety white? When Ed was there, it was a white safety. It was a, yeah. Because he told the story that he could see that guy, but he couldn't find Ed. He didn't know where Ed was. And Ed was squatting in the shadows, almost like he knew where the shadow was.

And he couldn't fucking find him. Then he told the story where Ed fooled him on the post corner. That was in Baltimore. And Ed, what he did, it was that Peyton looked him off, and Ed pretended like he was going to drop one side and did a 360. Yeah. Took off. And picked the ball out from Reggie Wayne.

Yeah. It's one of the greatest plays that you'll ever see. And you have to understand what he did and how he did it to fool that guy. Because Peyton just knew he had him dead right like I got him. And probably Peyton. You've seen the play. I saw the play. I saw the play at the time that it happened.

And I'm like, how? Why? I saw the play at the time that it happened, and I'm like, how? Why? There was no indication that he should have done what he did. And how about Ray? Ray was a student of the game. He was ferocious.

He loved the game of football. He put time in it to be great. He worked hard. He was a student. He's very disciplined. I spent time with him. I love hanging in it to be great. He worked hard. He was a student. He's very disciplined. I spent time with him. I love hanging out with him. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually going to Nigeria next week. Yeah. We are opening up United Masses in Lagos, Nigeria. I can't wait to go. I can't wait to go. I'm really excited about it. The independent music scene in Nigeria and South

America, specifically Colombia and Argentina is going crazy. Wow. Because all these people they don't know of record companies. They just know, make music, get it out. And they're writing monster hits. Yeah, but except

these songs are becoming number one records wow they're not they're not they're not just like regional songs right they're becoming global impactful monster number one records jay mentioned you in a song thing you get jay to put me in a song i want to be in a song man i ain't never been no song i ain't been no video i ain't't been nothing, man. You hot already. Nah, you hot already. You crazy? You don't need to be in no song. Shannon Sharp. Somebody

said Shannon Sharp or something. I'm sure if I Google Shannon Sharp in the song, I'll find some shit. I ain't in no song, bro. Steve, I want to thank you for bringing me to your office and showing me around Queens. I really appreciate it. Continue success. Yeah yeah Steve Stout ladies and gentlemen all my life been grinding all my life sacrifice hustle pay the price

wanna slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life all my life been grinding all my life sacrifice hustle pay the price wanna slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolfe.

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