Club Shay Shay - Terrell Owens

Episode Date: September 6, 2021

On episode 35, Shannon welcomes in 6x Pro Bowler, 5x First-Team All Pro, 3X NFL receiving TD leader, the All-Decade Receiver of the 2000’s and member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Terrell “TO��� Owens. Terrell and Shannon cover the span of TO's career from his personal vantage point: the disrespect Owens felt at his initial Hall of Fame snubs, the systemic racism he says he experienced while with the San Francisco 49ers, why his relationship with Donovan McNabb in Philly soured and how the star receiver learned he was being cut from the Cowboys. Terrell talks about how he was perceived in the media vs who he really is, playing in the Super Bowl with a broken leg and the story behind the infamous "sit-ups" press conference in the driveway. Terrell names the best WR in the game right now and explains why he really thinks he could return to the NFL. Don't miss Shannon's in-depth one-on-one with Terrell Owens! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolf. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New from Embedded. Who gets to compete as a woman? This question came up in ugly form at the Paris Olympics.

But it's not new. If she runs like a man and talks like a man, is she a man? not new. If she runs like a man and talks like a man, is she a man? Hear about the long history of sex testing women athletes on Tested, a new series from CBC and NPR's Embedded podcast. Listen to all episodes on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. They were asking me when I would ringside. I had people asking, T.O., you next, you next. And then I had one guy that was like, yo, this is going to be funny. They were asking me when I was ringside. I had people asking, T.O., you next? You next? And then I had one guy that was like, yo, this is going to be funny. He was like, if you had to fight, who would you want to fight? I said, Donovan McNabb.

And I'm dead serious. I was saying I'd knock him out. Because there'd be so much. But you can't do that. But see, no, no, no. I would go in there. I know I'll be controlled. Right. It'll be him out. Because there'd be so much... But you can't do that. I'll be controlled. It'll be controlled anger. I'll be like a Navy SEAL.

I'll be a Navy SEAL. Because you know, they cool come under all conditions. But there will be a fire burning inside of me. So you literally try to knock the man out? Clean. I'll knock Chunky Soup from him. From 2004. Trust me. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Shea Shea.

I am your host, also the proprietor of Club Shea Shea, and the guy that's coming by for a drink and conversation today is an all-time great. I do not believe you can tell the story and the history of the NFL without mentioning his name. He's a six-time Pro Bowler. He's a five-time first-team All-Pro. He's one of three men to be first-team All-Pro with three different teams. He's an all-decade receiver of the 2000s.

You know him as initials T.O. Terrell Lewis. T.O., what's going on, brother? Man, what's good, man? You like that intro? Boy, boy, I was looking at him. I was like, man, he's rambling it out like he's reading from a teleprompter. So you're here today. You got a wine.

You're going to tell us about some of the other things that you also have. Yeah. But tell us a little bit about 81 T.O. Well, I'm fortunate, number one, to be collaborating with another Hall of Famer who just recently passed in Tommy Lasorda. Okay. A Los Angeles legend as well, with all the greats that live here. Right. But I had the opportunity to collaborate and, you know, growing up in the South, you know, we didn't know anything about drinking wine. It was either moonshine. That's the only time you got wine. That's it. That's it. And so, so I

came about this opportunity and I couldn't pass it up and you know, my first experience being from Alabama and then getting drafted to San Francisco, never really experienced wine. Right. You know, like California experience and so, I gave them kind of like my likes and dislikes of the experiences that I had. It was dry, pasty, just didn't like it. And so with 81, I included some of the things that I didn't like.

They incorporated the feedback to make 81. And so the tasting notes and the ingredients with 81 is it's like a black ripe black cherry, plum preserves, cinnamon stick aromas, dark chocolate, and a spicy toasted oak. Okay. So you did a lot of research. You seem like you put thought into it. You just didn't say, well, no, I just slapped my name on it. We good.

It seems like when I hear you talk, you talk you're like okay this is what i like these are some of the wines that i've tasted but and so ken how do we get something similar but have my personality absolutely and so even with the aesthetics of the bottle if you look at it right that the label is textured yeah i know you like that pig skin so you can yeah i that. Very instrumental and really from the aesthetics all the way to the inside. Obviously, there's a base. And so with this wine, it's a Cabernet. So it's a 95% Cabernet. And it got its initials.

I don't know if you can see that from this distance. But the line, it got T-O. So that's my logo. And I saw my clothing line as well. So just trying to build on what I've been able to do on the football field and really kind of post-football and trying to establish some businesses. So, yeah, so if you're into wine, definitely go check this out, 81veno.com. Like I said, it's a Cabernet blend, 95% cab and 5% Syrah.

You mentioned you got the wine. You say you got a clothing line. The shades you're wearing is also from? Part of my line, Prototype 81. I got a clothing line. Obviously, I always talk about my three pillars of success. Right. You know what I mean? Obviously you had your path

and there are things that motivated you. Obviously similar, I know we've talked about it with our grandmother, but when I got inducted into the Hall of Fame, going know, going to a, you know, being, you know, growing up in a small city, small town in Alexander City, Alabama. Right. Then going to a small division one AA school, UT Chattanooga. And then, you know, I played 15 years.

I get obviously nominated in 2016 and I didn't really know much about the Hall of Fame because a lot of, you know, some guys play to get to the Hall of Fame. Some guys play for whatever. Right. And so when I went, I did an interview with Chris Rose and those guys when I got nominated. They asked me to come to the studio and they talked about it because it was like the class of, you know, that I was with.

And I just did an interview and didn't really understand the magnitude of what I had just done until I got home. I'm looking at the TV and I'm looking at all the highlights, everybody that's in that class. Right. And I'm like, man, this is a big deal. Right. I'm like, how did I get here? Right.

And so when I talk about my three pillars of success is desire, dedication and discipline. Right. And so with the fabrics of everything that I do, I try to incorporate that into everything. And so if I didn't have the desire, and everybody has a desire to be or do something in life, but you gotta dedicate yourself, and you talk about some of the greats. You know, you're in the Hall of Fame.

There's something about you, there's something about the 300 plus, 30 plus guys that are in that museum is something about them that made them go from good to great, and so that was something that I really stuck made them go from good to great. Right. And so that was something that I really stuck with, and that was my discipline. And so when you talk about my career and you look at how I got there, I wouldn't be there without those 3Ds.

You mentioned about going and doing the interview, and they're rolling footage of some of the plays you made in your career. And I've often told people this. You don't realize some of the things that you've done because you're in it. So you don't – when I'm in it, I didn't go back and look like, oh, man, last year, let me go back and look at some of the things I did. Or let me go back – you don't do that because you're in it. You're like, I'm trying to get better.

And then once it's over, I found myself going back and looking like, well, okay, I guess I'm worthy of being in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Right? Absolutely. And I think that factored into obviously me, you know, making my decision to do it elsewhere. After I got snowed two times. And so the first time I was like, okay, I was going to be a grown man about it. Be mature about it. And I'm like, okay, next year I get in. Right. And then when the next year came up, you know, we've talked about it

and it didn't happen right and I felt like I felt I felt disrespected right first year disappointed. But then the second year I felt disrespected, you know to the nth degree and so at that point like I said, I had to take matters into my own hands. Let's talk about something because I don't think people at home. You don't mind if I know go ahead. Go ahead bro. I don't think people at home realize that I've told you this,

and I've told others, even when the voters were coming around asking me, so talk to me about Teal. I said, I believe he's the second greatest receiver of all time. I said, there's no disrespect to any of the guys because I was in the NFL when Jerry's prime. I was in the NFL when Randy got in, when you got there, and some of the greats. I said, there's no disrespect to anybody that's in the hall,

but I believe T.O. is the second best behind Jerry. And they said, well, you know, what about the other stuff? I said, well, you guys, and the bylaw says the other stuff doesn't matter. It said on the football field. That's what mattered. So here's some of your accomplishments. You played 15 NFL seasons, you mentioned. 1,078 catches, 15,934 yards, which is, if I'm not mistaken,

that's third behind Jerry and Larry Fitzgerald now. You have 153 receiving touchdowns. That's third behind Jerry and Randy Moss. Three times you led the NFL in receiving. You scored at least 13 touchdowns in seven seasons in the 10-year span from 98 to 2007. You're the only NFL player in history to score at least two touchdowns

against all 32 teams. You're the only player in NFL history to have three No, let me get this correct now. Only player in NFL history to have a 200-yard receiving game with three different teams. I did that? See, you know, as my current researcher put it,

I said, I bet he doesn't even know this. You did that. Man, that's crazy. Especially the 200-yard game because, I mean, those are hard to come by. They are. And the only one that really comes to mind is – Chicago? Yeah.

Is it 283? Yeah. And I was mad cuz they pulled me out We're probably you want to three you wanted three because I knew it. I knew what was going on and I'm like, yo, I'm like 300 that that's that's a mythical number for receiver, right? Some some people go a full season and Me so You know, like you you're in a game and you know this is it. You're catching everything, and everything seems so easy.

Right. And no matter what the DB does, no matter what the coverage they call, they can't see you. And you're like, just let me take full advantage of this. Don't let me get hurt. Don't let nothing happen. Don't blow them out. Well, the thing was, like, pregame, you know, Dr. Harry Edwards,

a professor, and he was kind of like, you know, part of the organization. And so, you know, at this point, like I said, I'm kind of like, you know, at the height of my career, just starting to really make a name for myself. And so we were eating breakfast that morning, and so we already knew, like I said, this is Jerry's last who we're going to be. Right, right. So we were like – so he was like I said, this is, this is Jerry's last. Right. Right. So we was like, so he was like, yo, you know, you know, this is Jerry thing, you know, kind of just, you know, cause they knew I was going to score possibly celebrate or whatever.

He's like, you know, kind of tone it down a bit, you know, let this be. And I was, and I, and I was, right. I was receptive to that. Okay. I first, you know, the script of 15, whatever, 16 plays, man, they had 14 or 15 all Jerry, all Jerry. And I wasn't mad at that because I'm like, okay, this is I've witnessed greatness, you know, for a number of years. Right. You know, I can imagine like I can imagine. Hopefully when it's my time, they give me this look. Right. So the game plan, you know, as it unfolded, we weren't

the only one that knew that this is the Jerry last day. The defensive coordinators knew all week, you know, as it unfolded, we weren't the only one that knew that this was the Jerry's last day. The defensive coordinators knew all week, you know what I mean? And then the defensive players, they started doubling him. They started taking shots at him, you know what I mean? And then it got, you know, it was to the point to where it knew, they knew and it felt like we were forcing the ball to them. Right. And then it got to a point to where we weren't really –

our offense was stalling because of how the game was unfolding. And so it got to the point to where Jeff, you know, he just had to go through his progressions. You know, if he wasn't double team, if he was double team, he had to go. And I was usually number two or three in the progression. And that's how I ended up with, you know, probably – I don't know how many catches in like the first second.

That was – hold on. Then you have 20. You had 20 catches that day, 283. And everybody thought you had something to do with like, how could T.O. do this on Jerry's day? Exactly. Like, like I was throwing it in, catching it. You know what I mean? And so for me, man, I just I was a benefactor. Right. I mean, just of what he's done throughout the course of his career.

And again, I if I were to drop 20, you know, I mean, I would have looked like the worst, you know, you know, duo part of the duo ever. So for me, I was just doing my job. Right. And as you as you know, you know, you have duos throughout the course of the season. You have number ones and you have number twos. And then just just like with my numbers, they were very inflated because of what Jerry had done throughout the course of his career. You have guys today that are benefactors to number ones,

and then their numbers at the end of the season are like number ones, and they think they're number one, but they're really not. So I was just fortunate, man, to just build on that. And so it was really – it was kind of symbolic in a sense of just passing of the torch. Right. Did you feel bad because you know what you knew, having seen Jerry practice every single day, know his work ethic.

He's the one that made everybody in the West Coast, you catch a five-yard route, you got to finish the ball 40, 50 yards down the field. I did it everywhere I went. Sick. I'm like, come on. And Mike was my head coach. So when he came back, he brought that. I catch a stick route or I catch a shallow cross.

I got to finish 60 yards. And then they call another play again. Yeah. Well, you know, that's how Jerry did it. So you saw his work ethic. You know what he had done to put in for that last. And everybody knew that was going to be his last game in San Francisco. When you go home at night, that that land and you everybody knew that was going to be his last game in San Francisco.

When you go home at night that night and you're laying in bed, you like damn, I had 20 for 283. What do you did you feel bad for Jerry? Because you know, he wanted it. I know I honestly man and that's so that's this is what's so crazy about me and football. Like I never thought I would play beyond the collegiate level. So to play football and become competitive and learn the little nuances and intricacies of playing the receiver position. I was just kind of just learning on the fly, right? So I never really

I never looked that far ahead or into it as me becoming who I became or taken away from Jerry. I would just, honestly, I was still learning the position. I was so green and so raw that I didn't think of it like that. Right. I was just looking at it as I was doing my job. And so that's how I looked at it throughout the course of my career. And I try to educate guys and let these guys know the numbers are going to be there. If you're doing and you're preparing yourself for whatever position that you play, you don't have to worry about the numbers.

They're going to take care of itself. And so I never really laid in my bed at night thinking, okay, I took this away from Jerry or whatever. Football, honestly, like I said, if I had to say it now, it was almost like a hobby to me because basketball was my passion. That was my love. Right. And so, uh, just with my athletic, uh, athletic ability, everything that I did on the basketball court that translated to, to football, and that's

how I became better at the position. Along with just the, uh, the position coaches that I had that instilled in me. They saw the potential in which I was drafted with, and they kept telling me, like, man, you could be a great one one day. You could be just like Jerry. You could be better than Jerry. Then I found myself trying to emulate and do everything that Jerry did, but I had to realize and be a realist.

I'm like, I'm not Jerry. Our body types are totally different. He's a finesse, more, you know, route route runner. For me, I was physical. I was rugged. I was raw. I had to fine tune my game every year all the way to year 15. You made some headlines saying that someone reached out to you and said, you know what TL, stay in shape.

We might give you a call. You just had a birthday. You're 47 years of age. Hadn't played in a decade. If somebody seriously called you to come, T.L., we're going to give you a workout. And if you perform like you believe you can, we're going to give you an opportunity. Would you take it? Absolutely. I mean, I've always said, Tio, we're going to get your work out. And if you perform like you believe you can, we're going to give you an opportunity.

Would you take it? Absolutely. I mean, I've always said, I mean, even just the way that I departed and not being able to really end on my own terms. You know what I mean? You know how that is. I mean, and for me, it's so crazy because I've had coaches that and even players that have been in position at the end of their careers that wanted

opportunities right black and white and for me to be in a situation and see who i am and see what i'm made of see what i look like i it's perplexing to me um that they wouldn't go to bed or be like oh i played with this guy i know what he's made of. If anybody can do it, he can do it. And what's so funny is like you hear the, I read the headlines. It's like, oh, Terrell Owen claimed somebody. First of all, I'm telling the truth. I don't have to claim anything. I don't know how you interpret that.

Right. But it's almost saying, it almost seems like I'm lying or I'm just making it up. Dude, I don't have to lie about anything. I can show you texts. Owner approached me. They approached me. I didn't actively go and see. Yeah, tell them that story.

Yeah, so I haven't actively went out and got an agent and sought and tried to play in the league. Okay. Owner approached me. He saw me through a friend of mine. I went to a restaurant, and he said, oh, such and such is the owner. Such and such is in here. And I'm like, oh, okay, I know him.

I've met him before. Right. And so I reintroduced myself. And so we're just talking just casually. And so he looked at me. He goes, man, it looks like you can still play. And I said, so and so, I said, it's not like I can't play. I said, under the right circumstances, given the opportunity,

I said, I probably could play. I said, you think about third down situation as an owner. He knows what I'm talking about right third down red zone and I go through the season. I get myself in shape. There's no doubt. He said, okay, cool. I went back to my table. 5 10 minutes later.

The owner restaurant comes back by and he goes, yo, he said, he just asked me, is T.O. serious? And I looked at him and I was like, is he serious? He's the one that asked me. So that's where it all started. And so he's like, alright, cool. So on my way out,

I saw him again. He's like, look, I'm going to talk to the head coach. I gave him my number. He said, I'll get back in touch with you. I was at the hotel. Like the next day, I'm getting ready to leave. Phone rang. I missed the call.

Call right back. The head coach. He goes, oh, I hear you talked to the owner, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes, I talked to him. He's like, what do you got going on? I said, yo, he said, you know, I look like I can play. And I said, coach, he knows who I am. He knows what I made. I said, coach, third down, red zone. I said, as the season rolls on, obviously you can use me. However, there's no doubt I can't play.

He said, all right, cool. I'm going to talk to the general manager, blah, blah, blah. So then he talked to the general manager. And at some point, the general manager texts my old phone, which I hadn't used in i don't know how long and i just so happened i'm back in florida i plugged the phone up i see a message from the general manager like three weeks ago they had asked me to come in to speak to the young receivers so i i kind of got nervous i'm like man did i miss my opportunity right so i reached back out to him i drafted yo, yo, this is Terrell. You reached out to an old phone.

And then I said, I saw you asking me about coming and talking. I said, yeah, I would have loved to. So I didn't know if that was a way of them bringing me in to work me out. Right. As well as talk to receivers. And so, long story short, Shannon, I ended up talking to the general manager maybe a couple of weeks after that. Actually, on my way back from Jackson State, I had gone to Dion's camp.

I had ran routes. Right. Yeah, I saw that. And so I talked to him. And so he was like, yo. So it was mixed signals, mixed messages. Because the owner's telling me one thing. Basically, the head coach basically kind of just kind of stepped back.

And he was like, okay, now it's general manager, owner. Right. the head coach basically kind of just kind of stepped back and he's like okay now it's general manager owner right so it was little kind of just wind taken out of my cell because the information i got from the general manager wasn't with the owner so i got kind of discouraged because at this point i've been working out about three four weeks right i'm getting i'm i'm grinding right going to my going to my p. I'm giving me everything right and so I Talked so then I'm kind of frustrated I call one of my receiver coaches who's now a head coach and I tell him about it and He could tease like tea. He's like I can tell in your boy. He that you ready

He said I know you serious about and I said, yeah, I said they approached me. He approached me about it, right? So he said he said this is what I do. This is what I know you're serious about it. And I said, yeah. I said, they approached me. He approached me about it. Right. So he said, this is what I advise you to do. He said, reach out back to him and see what he says. Right. So I called, texted the owner, and I said, look. I texted him. I said, look, I just want to know. I said, just give me a call.

Let's talk about this man-to-man. I said, because I've been working out, training, blah, blah, blah. I don't want this to be just for nothing. Wait for your time. Talk to him. And he said, look. I don't want this to be just for nothing. Wait for your time. Talk to him. And he said, look. And I said, I know you're the owner. And I said, no, you got people, you know, in place to do their job.

And I said, at the end of the day, I know they don't want to overstep. You don't want to overstep your bounds. I said, but you're the owner of the team. I said, at the end of the day, you're the owner. You're the owner. Right. So he said, look, Gerald, he said, I'm going to talk to Coach. This is not another. He said, just keep doing what you're doing. And that Gerald, I'm going to talk to Coach. This is another.

He said, just keep doing what you're doing. And that's what I'm banking on. So at the end of the day, like I said, I get discouraged when I hear people like yourself say, he can't do it. Back when we were talking earlier, you can't say I can't do it because you haven't seen it done. If you haven't seen me do it, you can't discount me or counsel me and say,

I can't do it. At the end of the day, nobody plays the game to get hit. No, no. You know what I mean? But like I said, I get it. Your spidey senses, though, T.O. Your spidey senses went away. You know because when you play. But you can get those things

back in tune. Like I said, it's not overnight. I've been training. It ain't like I've just been sitting on the couch and now I'm just jumping back in. No, no, no. That ain't your makeup. I've been... For me, it's not about shape. Because I know you've been training. I know you've

been running. For me, it's about being away from the game for over a decade. I mean, Tim Tebow got an opportunity. He's been away. Granted, he may be young, but it doesn't matter. You better not go out there and do that. Come on. You already know better than that.

Come on, Shane. I could have played tight end and gave a little bit better effort than what that was. Come on now. I I could have played tight end and gave a little bit better effort than what that was. Come on now. I'm not built like that. You're going to come back and play a position that I am familiar with. Exactly. That's where I feel like he was at a disadvantage.

I think that's where the hoopla was at, was that he's been given preferential treatment because it's privilege. That's where that conversation was at. But for me, trust me. I'll be at the opportunity. I want to see it. But that's where people in your position. I want to see it now.

You got me convinced that you could do it. So I want to see it. I want to see it now. At the end of the day, man, like I said, that's why I put in the video. I mean, the guys that have been helping me. Like I said, I haven't told anybody. Everybody just been wondering, okay, why is these videos popping up? Why you working like this all of a sudden.

Right, yeah, exactly. Like I said, the owner approached me. You want 15, 20 players a game. That's it. Three down, couple red zones, snap. Wherever I can help a team. Trust me, my knowledge of the game is what's going to separate me from the others or anybody else.

And I want to be able to help groom some of those guys that, you know, people say that, you know, resemble my play, my build, whatever, or just, you know, expand their knowledge. But you want to go to a situation where you could possibly win. You don't want to go to some team that's – Right, exactly. But, I mean, like I said, there are some teams I'm sure that's on the cusp. They may, like I said, I still feel like I could be an X factor.

You believe you could help put a team over the top? I do feel like I – yeah. What did really A.B. do this year? Last year with the Buccaneers? What really? You can do that. What did he really do? Look at his stats.

What is his stats? Somebody give me his stats. I think A.B. in eight games had 43 catches for about 500 yards, I think. Four or 500 yards. So you're trying to say that I can't do that? T.O., A.-B is 33, 34. When I was 37 they had guys 10 years younger than me. They said I was

over the hill. It don't matter. You know the definition of faith. Come on now. You just told me a while ago. And this is why I get discouraged because you have a platform because people hear what you have to say. They listen to your voice. Man, you want

to go out there, man. T.O., you've accomplished everything. But if I can still do it, trust me. Man, I... Man, I might be one of the best athletes the world probably has never really ever seen.

I'm not going to die there. I've seen you who. I know you can play. I mean, anything you set your mind to, you can do. That's why you became who you became. Right. Because you set your mind and says, okay, I can be better. Oh, Jerry, I can do that.

I can be better than Jerry. Bro, trust me. Man. You just need to. The guys that work me out, they trip out at the things that I've done. And they know who I am and they've seen my highlight. Dude, just with my work ethic, dude, trust me.

I want to see it now. I hope they call you. I hope they call you. I'm going to be right. I hope they call you. That's going to be the first topic. When you go back, when you go call you. That's gonna be the first topic when you go back when you go there that's gonna be our first topic the next day. I like the way you said it when I like it now you started to speak things into existence.

I like this. You go back. It'll be our first time. I like that Shannon. I like that Shannon. You my dog. You always have been always will be brother. You know, I got you.

Let's get the current receivers. Who reminds... Julio. I was going to say, what receiver reminds T.O. of T.O.? Julio. I mean, obviously, you got D.K. Metcalf. He's young. He's evolving. He's still young.

You see the potential there. What about A. about AJ Brown? I don't think he is fast as you though. He he's coming on to like, yeah, he's definitely making some noise. Like I said, these are guys like said, they're but he about to take that next step. Right? Exactly. So it's going to be consistency with these young guys. And we thought, you know, we get into discussion about these guys. They're not even in, you know, played five years yet, and they start talking about Hall of Fame.

Yeah. It's consistency. That's how you get into the Hall of Fame. It's your body of work. Right. Yeah. Everybody always bring up Odell Beckham Jr., tremendous talent. He made that one catch.

We're in the age of social media. Wow, everybody knows. people in China probably know who who Odell is right because that but in order for him to make those leaps and bounds is going to be consistency. Right? And as you've seen like injuries are part of the game. He's had one injury. He's not a rebound from that. Now, let's pick up pick up from where he left out where he was playing on in with the Giants. So for all these guys that you know,

that that have the A. Day Brown, the DJ, Kate, Matt calves, the hot Devante Adams, these guys, they are on their way. They are paving their way to Canton. Who's the best receiver in the game right now? You get one the best receiver right now. Boy, general manager, general manager come to you. Say Tio. I'm going. I gotta go with Julio. I gotta go with Julio. It's either him or Antonio Brown. I can't I no matter what you I'm taking the the trouble stuff that I'm leaving out. I'm leaving. It's

just like the Hall of Fame. Right. I have to leave that off okay before all of this stuff happened. Yeah. Who was Antonio Brown with the Pittsburgh Steelers? Yeah. Oh, he was special. Okay. Special. No, no question. So that now you see when I take, like I said, the outside stuff, I separated. Okay. Antonio Brown, before all of this, he was the top, one of the top receivers before all this stuff started going on. Would you agree? Oh, I absolutely agree. Okay, so that's, yeah.

I mean, the dude was averaging probably 130 catches, probably 1,500 yards, 12, 13 touchdowns. And that's how I see it. But sometimes he didn't realize how good he had it at Pittsburgh. I talked to Antonio Brown when all that stuff was going on, and I got where he came. I got where he was coming from with our conversations being a six round pick coming from a small college establishing and building

really the statue of a person really the statue of a person and player in the caliber person that he was becoming. He saw for so many years, the star treatment that the quarterback was getting. Yeah. And he wasn't getting it, but he was doing equally. He was just as important. He felt as important. Why don't you

tell him say you never going to get the treatment of the quarterback here. Trust me. I said, so we had conversations and I said, whatever your issues are. I said, bro, you he was like, what should I do? You know, you know, being better than I do, right? You've been there for nine years or whatever. You should have some type of rapport with him to pull him to the side. You say y'all kids. You've been there for nine years or whatever. You should have some type of rapport with him to pull him

to the side. You say, y'all kids, y'all had dinners, wives go out. I can't tell you. You've been there. You should know

how to approach him to have that conversation because if there was something said slight in an interview that you felt was wrong or whatever, you should have.

Yeah, go to him. Yeah, absolutely. And that was my advice to him. Because, I mean, Rod throwing you 130 passes a year. I mean, he throwing you 180, 190 targets a year. You're getting 1,500, 1,700 yards. Yeah, but he felt like he wasn't getting that star treatment. T.O., you know you don't get that if the quarterback's there.

I get it, dude. I mean, we all go through it. I mean, I went through it to an extent. Man, I used to see John not practice it. I'm like, man, I can't wait to get to a certain age and I won't have to practice. Oh, well, I mean, sometimes it happens, sometimes it didn't. TD was the same way. TD didn't have to practice.

I'm like, okay, it is what it is. Migraines and stuff like that. way. TD got not didn't have to pray. I'm like, okay, it is what it is and stuff like that. But see that where where players get the problem, you start judging off of what somebody else is getting or what somebody else is doing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what gets you in trouble. For me, I didn't have the problem. I like to work. It didn't matter to me. Yeah. My coach had to tell me not to practice. Right.

Cuz I need to work on my craft. Right. Like these guys not playing in preseason. Tio, I needed preseason. Right. But that's but outside on my craft. Like, these guys not playing in preseason. T.O., I need a preseason. Right. But outside of that, this is the problem that I had was how I was being treated by my coach in certain ways. You weren't worried about what Steve got treated like this. Or Jeff got treated like that. No, just treat me like I'm

a human being. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like, yeah, at some point, treat me like the star that I am. And I know that there's going to be some tears. Right, right, right. As, you like the star that I am and I know that there's going to be some some tears right as you know, as guys, you know, get better and as they establish their careers, but I didn't know I they treat man. Trust me, bro. They treat you like who's a rookie. Trust me, man. My coaches even told me stuff man. So, yeah, prime Tio racing the prime DK Metcalf who wins.

I saw DK run. He run. He run. Yeah, that's how do you want to say that? But he will run it. Yeah, but if you look at some of my highlights, bro, I'm telling you, I wasn't known for my speed, but there are some highlights where I've come from the back side all the way just to spring my guys. You're talking about the garrison against New York Jets.

I got some Jets, Shannon. Trust me. I just look like this. I try to tell people, I just look like this. I can cover some ground. Ask Julio. I can slide. I can slide, Shannon. Like now, I can slide. They've been talking, going back and forth on social media.

Usain Bolt and Tyreek Hill. He needs to stop man. They need a drug test. Tyreek Hill. 40 yards, 40 yards, gold medal versus Super Bowl ring. Who you money on Teal? After that, after that statement, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten drug tested about three or four or five times. I'm surprised he hasn't gone to the media and talking about he didn't get drug tested.

He's tired of getting drug tested because he ain't right. You don't think Tyreek can get it in a 40, not a 70, because you say it's suggesting they run 70 meters. Tyreek says 40. A 40-yard dash. You don't think Tyreek can get it? He might. It'll be close. I say it'll be close. In a 40?

It'll be close. Not no 70. He can't touch him in a 70. He can cancel Christmas if he thinks he can. I don't care what he put at that 70-yard that 70 meters on that line. He can put 80 million he finna get that before who's saying both get there. No, sir. No, sir. Reeve Bobby Jimmy, you raised Tyreek a couple years ago. Is a year. Is the fastest. He's quick. He's quick. He's quick and fast. Yeah, he's quick and fast. I've never seen anybody celebrate like him.

Absolutely. I've seen some guys. I was in the league when Sam Grady Sam Grady won the silver medal in 84 Olympics. I was in the league with him. Mervin Fernandez. James Jet was on the relay team that won the gold medal in 92. So I've seen some guys run Dion. Oh, yeah Dion can people people don't realize how bad I'm telling he don't look man

If you you play get DG Darryl green your green can run to yeah, I heard yeah Yeah, great. You run. Yeah, Ron Brown was also who also was in the Olympics and I think 84 thank you one the bronze He might have won the bronze medal. I think he might have swept the medals that year. Or it might have been 88 that he won the bronze. So I've seen some guys, but I don't know if I've ever seen anybody accelerate like weak.

You can see it. Yes! When you're watching the game, you can see the acceleration. Yes! And there's such a distinctive difference in the speed in which he runs that it's obvious. Right. Because those guys are track guys that happen to play football.

Tyreek is a football player that has legit track speed. And I know there's been some back and forth with Marquise Goodwin and all these guys that are supposed to be fast. Hey, the guy is quick. He's cat quick, and he's fast. I mean, people don't realize he put together. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because track guys are free.

You talk about a pound for pound? Yeah. No, ain't nobody close to that. That's what I'm saying. A pound for pound like receiver? That's him. You talk about a pound for pound boxer? That's Tyreek.

In your year, did you ever have a, did y'all have a scrimmages when you were in training camp? Did y'all play a, you know, scrimmage against other teams? Yep. Yep. Did you get, I don't know if you saw, you saw AB get to a fight the other day. Yeah, I saw, yeah. Did you see the Cleveland situation today?

Cleveland and the Giants. No, I didn't. I don't really watch football like that. T. No, I didn't. I don't want to watch football like that. I don't feel check this out. The practice is over the field cleared. They come back out there. Sterling Shepherd on the DB and try to throw blow after the practice. So they organized the hey, don't worry about this here after practice because the coach told him he didn't want to have

no more fighting during practice. He said, hold that. So they found a loophole. After practice, they go to see me. They take a look. They took medicine to their own hands. I had never heard of that. I mean, you hear guys like

basketball, like, you know, they get they go to the showers and they catch them going to the bus and they'll, you know. See what's up? Yeah. Did you ever get into it, tussle in a practice? No. No, I was probably too tired to do all of that.

See, that's what I said. I said, hold on. If you got all the energy to practice all the energy to fight you in practicing hard enough. And I would not man. I was trying to perfect my craft. Right?

I was just trying to be the best number one receiver wherever I tried to be the best and I my practice habit that I I was always I've always been a work work type of guy. My work ethic was always there. And then that's why when I got to the Niners, everybody saw the similarities in Jerry. But Jerry always wanted to be a receiver. That was his passion.

For me, I just kind of adopted, you know, and tried to enhance upon what my potentials were. And I became better. And then, like I said, in order to be good at something you got to keep you got to work at it. Absolutely. And so that's that's what it was doing. I was molding myself to become so like the best receiver that I could be, you know, taking

everything that I you know, that I could around me even from other receivers that came free agents. I watched like guys I watch how they got over right, you know, even the slow white guys that will get open. I watched like guys. I watched how they got over. Right, you know, even the slow white guys that will get over them. Like how do you guys get know there was something about it right about the ability that would make them get over right? So I would watch them. I will watch all different types of guys. If you would drop me in the first second third fourth

round, it don't matter. I watched how you ran routes and how you got how you got open. Do you wish they had social media? Oh, boy, I would be a star boy. People already know me, but I will be I will be a mega star like I would have millions of followers. No, no doubt myself and Chad, the way that we entertain, how we engage with the fans, and I'm not saying it as you know, to be arrogant, but just how how we engage with the fans. And I'm not saying it as, you know, to be arrogant, but just how we entertain and how we are very charismatic. And I understand the entertainment.

I understand the business of the game. And so how we intertwine and how we engage with, you know, just the fans and now with social media, it will be crazy. Dude, would you be going back and forth? Because a lot of times we see guys, a guy on the offense or the defense, or we see guys, would you be going back and forth? Because a lot of times we see guys, a guy on the offense or the defense, or we see guys. Would you be going back and forth? Man, I would probably have one caption for them all week.

Get your popcorn ready. That's all I would probably have to say. Right. And I said it. I mean, I said it on the sideline. People think that I talk trash. And when I tell you, you, yes, you did. If you think about the highlights that you've seen,

you've never seen me on the field going back and forth. It's always been on the sideline when I'm talking to, because I know the camera's on me. Even when we were warming up. I remember with the Cowboys. My mama, she'd say, mama, they got these cameras on me. I knew what I was. I knew what I was doing. Right. And I wanted to engage. I wanted to have fun with the game. And that's what I miss really now.

Like I wish I would have I would have had more fun. Right. With the game. But it was I was so. So concentrated on really just become and just honing on just like I had that relentless pursuit of just trying to be as good as I wanted you be ticked talking like you do nah I mean if you're gonna tick talk you got to back it up hey if you're gonna tick talk you got to back it up man man you see they not the stuff without a you that's what made it so bad. Corvette got it bad. Because he was doing all that pregame. It was premeditated.

But then you can't back it up. It looks embarrassing. It does. So, I mean, like I said, everybody, I mean, they think they want it. They think they want that line. Everybody think they're number one. When number one getting all the coverage. He getting the number one DB.

Right. The defensive coordinator stand up late at night trying to come up with schemes to disguise a way to roll coverage your way and take you away. And you just getting, you getting the third DB. You getting the fourth DB. And you put a number. Yeah, man, I'm that dog. Right.

Because your numbers are skewed. Yes. They're legit, but it's skewed because you have to look at how you got those numbers. And as soon as you get Pat P and you get Jahir Alexander and you get Marshawn Lattimore and you get those top dogs, you get Jalen Ramsey, you get Stephon Gilmore, all of a sudden. The sign of a good receiver, you got to do it with and without. Yeah, you get you got to do you got to create make plays double team. Yeah, make plays. It don't matter. I remember

talking talking to the a B. He was frustrated. I said a B. You can't be so consumed about what he's not doing or is the balls are not coming your way. I said bro, make the most of the balls that come. That's it. And that's what he started doing because he was he was struggling because he felt like they were going away from him.

They were intentionally going away from him feeding juju. Right. And he was open and rightfully so sometimes. Right. But I said, dude, that's something you can't you gonna lose that battle. That's it. I said, dude, just's something you can't you gonna lose that battle. That's it. I said, dude, just make the most of when those balls come your way and that's what he started doing. He started taking a little

look going to the house. That's what you got to do though. Teal. I got the name big play shape because once I got to Baltimore, I wouldn't get featured like I was in Denver. I'll get one player game to the house. I'm going then over time. Yeah, the offensive coordinator We gotta thank you this ball this guy more ball What's your favorite dance the pom-pom the signing the dancing with the cheerleaders the popcorn? I do Ray like that. I had fun that. No, but I had fun that week.

I had fun that week doing that. But now the best, I think the most creative probably was me signing the Sharpie. The Sharpie in Seattle. Yeah, and then impromptu was like the popcorn at the back of the – I catch the ball at the back of the end zone. Right. And the fans were right there, and I just saw the popcorn. You know, you see the picture with me. And then obviously the most

Probably talked about Me going to the store. Yeah But I mean, man, I you can you imagine? Oh, man I'm telling imagine you put that up if you had Instagram you had Twitter back, but I'm telling you That's anything that they got 10 that they got 10 million like you think Kim Kardashian breaking the internet It wouldn't, it would be something awful. A few months back, one of your best friends did celebrity boxing. We've seen Nate Robinson do it.

You sure he did it? Well, okay. He attempted it. Yeah, he attempted it. Nate Robinson, Chad Ochocinco, you and Ochocinco, very good friends. Have you thought about doing a celebrity boxing match? Well, let's just talk about his performance. Okay, let's talk about his performance.

I commended him on what he did. Right. Honestly, I wasn't nervous, too nervous. I just didn't want him to go in there and not take it serious. Right. Oh, yeah, because you can get hurt. Because I know how he is, and I know he's a showman. Right.

You know what I mean? And he was going against a bare-knuckle fighter. But he's going against somebody that actually fights. There ain't no celebrity celebrity celebrity. Right, yeah. So, you know, when I went to the arena and I saw him, and as soon as I saw him, I was like, okay, this is for real. Right.

So I went in there, I went in the arena, and I was like, man, my dog about to go ahead. About to do this. Yeah. And so I went to the dressing room and I saw him. He was in there hitting the bat. Pow, pow, pow, pow. I was like, oh, but this is real.

No, I'm talking about it got me kind of like, ooh. So I'm like, man, this is real. So when I saw him, I said, hey. First thing I told him, I said, yo, respect the sport. Oh, you obvious. That was, bro. Because I wanted, when I was driving down there, I'm like, well, what can I say? You know what I mean?

That he hasn't heard from anybody. That was the thing that came to my mind, respect the sport. Because I'm like, man, what can I say? You know what I mean? That he hasn't heard from anybody. That was the thing that came to my mind, respect the sport. Because I'm like, man, I remember what Nate Robinson did. Like, we saw what boxers that has, you know, the beating and everything. Because even some of the best boxers make one mistake and it's curtains. So, obviously, you don't know all the intricacies of a box. You know, you throw the punt, get your hands back up. You know, a lot of people keep their hands down.

Right, yeah. So, that was the first thing. But I had confidence because I know Chad has been training. He's done some stuff. But not to the point of, okay, he's really getting in the ring. Getting it right. So, like I said, that was my first words to him. It was like, respect the sport.

And so, man, he did a tremendous job. Went four rounds. And he got grazed a little bit, but he got right back up. Right. But you know, talking. He's that was the hardest, the toughest eight minutes of his life because you got to be in tip top, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, that people don't understand because I when I first got out here, I did some, you know, did some boxing. I didn't spar anything like that, but just hit the mitts hitting the bag, you know just... It's like a full body workout. It's like swimming on that.

And because the first thing when you get tired, you drop your arm. Drop your hand. And that's the... And guess what? All this is exposed. All this right here is exposed. And if you got somebody that's in shape, that condition, oh boy. This is canvas. This is canvas, and they finna paint a picture. You start breathing, you start breathing heavy, you start breathing out your mouth, your mouth open, and then the jaw is loose, and then boom, there you go face down. Right. I get Ocho Cinco.

He did great. I'm talking about you. What you going to do? So I think maybe a week or so after that, I'm at home. I get a text. I'm in Florida about 11 o'clock at night. Okay. It's Brandon Marshall.

Yeah. The one that wants to race me, too. So he texts me out of the blue, and he goes, Yo, dude, you want to fight me for $2 million? And I'm thinking he's just joking. So my response is, because he already backed out of two races. I'm sorry, I'm not really taking him serious at this point.

So my response to him, Shannon, I said, I'll knock your ass out for an extra $2 million. And I was that serious based on the other stuff. He done had me training the race and all this other stuff. And I keep backing out. He's backing out. Putting money up, this and that and the other. So that was my response.

I said, bro, I'd knock your ass out for an extra two minutes. He goes, no, no, no, I'm serious. I'm sitting here. I'm talking with the CEO of Triller. And he was like, I said, he said, you want to do it or not? I said, Russell, you know where I am, man. If you serious, I said, just let me know. He said, so he said, we're thinking about doing it or not. I said, Russell, you know why I am asking you. If you serious, I said, just let me know. So he

said, we're thinking about doing it in November. So long story short, I haven't heard from him since. But you know, be Marge Boxer real though. But I'm not finna just train. I've already been training and doing all this other stuff and he ain't. But you gotta go get a real boxing trainer, T.O. No, no.

The people that train Chad, they saw, because that's the first thing that people, they were asking me when I was ringside. I had people asking, T.O. No, no. The people that train Chad, they saw, because that's the first thing that people, they were asking me when I was ringside. I had people asking, T.O., you next, you next. And then I had one guy

that was like, yo, this is going to be fun. They was like, if you had to fight, who would you want to fight? I said, Donovan McNabb. And I'm dead serious. I'll knock him out.

Because there'll be so much... But you can't do that because he don't know no tears. I'll be controlled. It'll be controlled anger. I'll be like a Navy SEAL. I'll be a Navy SEAL. Because you know they cool come under all conditions. But there will be a fire burning inside of me.

So you were literally trying to knock the man out? Clean, I knocked Chunky Suit from him. From 2004. Trust me, all the heartache and all the stuff that I done went through. Being a nice guy. Me trying to be the nice guy. That's me being the nice guy.

I know you, and I know you dead and serious. Shannon, I promise you. And I know going in there, you can't just go in there and wreck us. No, no, no. You got to be strategic. You got to be strategic. Everything. Walk him into something.

But trust me, believe me you, that will be my intent. Man, you take this seriously when you play football. Absolutely. Because I ain't really – football really was a hobby. Right. Just think if I would have prioritized it. If I was like Jerry growing up and wanting to play football, this like, yeah, give me the proper training. Like I talked to, you know, his trainer,

he's like, yo, if you really serious, just let me know. So, you know, like I said, it hasn't come up. I'm not finna just do no unnecessary, but I may just start taking some lessons just to kind of familiarize myself. One, two, three, four. Because somebody like me, bro, I'd be like Roy Jones. I'd be like Roy Jones.

I'd be an entertainer, but you got to be smart in there too at the same time. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Trust me. Trust me. But like I said, we haven't gotten there yet. Somebody going to actually go proposition you about fighting. No, no, no. I mean, they have.

It's been some people. Zab Judah and some other guy that don't reach to my DM and, you know, doing some little celebrities. Nah, hell nah. Them real boxers. I know. But like I said, it's been like celebrity stuff. You know what I mean?

But I just haven't really, like I said, it wasn't really on my radar at that time. Yeah. Like I said, it wasn't really about the money. Like, yeah, I've been like, oh, yeah. But I, it's not really. But you fighting for two million. Yeah, like, yeah. So that was the number that.

Well, how much did it take you to fight Donovan? Oh, can of potted meat and some crackers. Can of potted meat and some crackers. And a bottle of 81. On the way out. We gone. And a bottle of 81 on the way out. It started off so well in San Fran.

And you were going to be the heir apparent. You were going to be what Steve. Well, I didn't know. I wasn't going to be the heir apparent. They were looking at J.J. Stokes to be the heir apparent. Well, yeah, when they drafted him number one overall. They were looking at JJ Stokes. Right? Well, yeah, they would age after him. Number one overall. Right.

The first first round draft. Right, right. But when you look at it and you you have Steve, you go to Jeff. Obviously, Jeff is not Steve Young. Steve Steve is in the Hall of Fame. But Jeff was a very good quarterback. Jeff made several Pro Bowls. Mm hmm. What happened in San Francisco?

How did it how did it how did it go so bad so quickly? You sold that spin 15 there. I think the coaching staff there, when I say coaching staff, I'm talking mainly probably Coach Mariucci. when I say coaching staff, I'm talking mainly probably Coach Mariucci. They saw probably the fast evolve, I guess, evolvement of my game. I became a little bit more of a personality, charismatic, because the first few years I was just learning the position.

I was quiet. You know what I mean? I was just trying to find my way. And then, you know, confidence is everything. And so and then, like I said, you know, I had this defense mechanism, you know, chip on my shoulder, you know, in a sense. And then, you know, things just started to unfold. And, you know, I felt like I was being treated differently by Coach Mariucci versus some other coach. That was some things that happened, you know, during, you know, during my time there that I had to go and address it to Bill Walsh because of I felt like I was just being treated differently. And that's and I think that's where things kind of

just fell off, kind of fell off the tracks there. You had a personality, but because Jerry's there, Steve's there, you're trying to find your footing, trying to find your knit. Now, all of a sudden, okay, I belong here. Not only do I belong here, I can be the man here. So now you have the confidence. So now I can really show the real T.O. I don't have to be quiet.

I don't have to be, you know, aloof. I can let people see my real personality, let everybody see who the real Terrell Owens is yeah because that was uh that was how people saw me and um our care I was characterized I was described you know when media talked to my teammates a lot of them said I was quiet I was aloof right I was standoffish and that wasn't that was the farthest from the truth. You know, yeah, that's how I grew up, you know, in a household where, you know, I was raised by my grandmother. I didn't really get to interact.

So it was sort of like I was socially awkward in a bit. Right. But if you ask my teammates, you know, with every team, they would tell you, I'm a joy to be around. I like to have fun. So the T.O. in the locker room was different than the T.O. that the media got an opportunity to see. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think when the media came and they asked certain individuals, maybe some people didn't like me. Right. And they gave them a different version of what somebody else would say, and they took that and they ran with it. Why didn't they ask? It's hard for me to believe that in the locker room of 53 guys only the guys that ever got interviewed were the guys that didn't dislike you that

disliked you why weren't some of the guys that like it's hard for me to believe that so in every locker room this man went in nobody liked him right exactly because all i hear about is the guys that did well he did this and he did that well i mean i became sort of like uh sort of like a villain in a sense it became a negative thing when it came to terrell owens right and i think if you look at you know also uh being inducted into the hall of fame those were some of the things that they kept bringing up right was character issues but i'm not i'm not a bad person but the character issue was never an issue before exactly do you Do you realize how special you've got to be when people are willing to change the bylaws?

You do realize they wrote new rules that what happened in the locker room, what happened in the meeting rooms, what happened on the sidelines could be used to judge a player going into the Hall of Fame. Do you realize that you did that? That's the T. O. rule. Amen. Like I said, God put us all here for a reason. Um again, I've been, I mean, even even that that situation, you think about the horse collar rule. I was part of that. Yeah. Um you think about the touchdown touchdown celebration. I was

part of that. Yeah. I have no idea. I can't put my finger or pulse on why that is. Right. But those were the cards that I was dealt. And I honestly, I felt I felt unfairly treated. I felt unfairly criticized that time because of how certain media, they add certain people and then they go on the air and every outlet picked it up. And then without even knowing me, they're just going by what everybody else is says saying. And so they've created this narrative and again, skip started it and then it kind of just trickle, you know, it was trickle down effect. What happened with it

seems like you said coach marry you to you felt that he started to treat you differently. But I think your position code Greg now with your first position. He was the office. Oh, see in San Fran. Yeah, I think he was. I think your position coach, Greg Knapp was your first position coach? No, he was not. He was the offensive OC in San Fran. Yeah, I think he was a quarterback coach or something. Yeah, yeah. But he wasn't – George Stewart was my position coach. George Stewart was your position coach. And prior to that, it was Larry Kirksey.

Okay. So, like I said, there were things, man, that I witnessed. And, like I said, when you talk about it now, it's – we've gone through a year of, you know, systemic racism and things of that nature. You know, just as as a country, as a whole, we witness things. But I can definitely go back and say now what I experienced. Obviously, it was systemic racism. And I'm not afraid to say it. I'll say it to him. But I definitely I was treated, you know, definitely differently than some of the Steve Mariucci. Absolutely.

So what about Greg now? Because we have some disagreements again. That's just like with anybody. I mean, any coach, any player, there's going to be arguments. There will be disagreements. Right. But at the end of the day, Jerry's cursed out or did worse than what I did.

But like I said, when it came to me, because of... Bill picked up the negativity. Right. Did you try to sit down and talk to Mooch? Did you say, Mooch, that's what everybody called him. Right. Mooch. Steve, Mooch, this is what I'm feeling.

I'm feeling that I'm being singled out. I feel like if I do something, you harp on it, where if someone else does something, you let it slide. The things that I experienced, it was obvious, to the point that I went to Bill Walsh. So you went above Mooch. Right, because I didn't feel like I was going to get anywhere. Obviously, there were fines and things of that nature. You have a fine coach.

Again, like I said, even with those, I was treated differently. Somebody else would be given the benefit of buying the team lunch or taking the fine. He didn't give me that option. lunch or taking the fine. Right. He didn't give me that option. Right. I just got the fine. Right. And so, there are things that it mean from the from the touchdown celebration. We're going to to the Dallas Star. Right. There was no, there was no rule against what I did. Monday, Monday morning quarterback, that's all that was going on throughout the course of the week. They were talking about that right the league didn't suspend me.

He was pressured by the media to suspend me. Hold on you got suspended for that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. What about it? So what did the union say that can't that wasn't a rule for that? They can't just speak. Yes, sir. I guess so what did let me guess conduct detrimental? I guess so. Let me guess conduct detrimental. Bro. I I have no idea. All I know is I got suspended and then then I found this out years later. I went to Atlanta. Right. And I I don't do politics. So he tried to play the political you know role and so he reached out. I mean he he talked to my coach and I I found this out years later. He wanted to try to make it look

like he and I was on good terms with the media that he wanted me to fly back from Atlanta and go to a San Jose Sharks game and be in the stands and have the media, you know, you know, paying the camera like him together. Yeah, like like we were cool. And Mike Mike Mike my coach he was like, I'm not calling him because I know T.O. is not going to go for that. No. And so these are little things like that, man,

that didn't really set well with me. Just like I said, I went to the middle of the star. When I discussed it with him or when he gave his feedback on what happened or his assessment of what happened, he said he didn't even see me go to the star. He has a bird's eye view, just like, or the code. Yeah. He said he had, he said he didn't even see me go to the star. So these are sort of things, man, like I said, that I had to go through. And it is what it, even with my contract,

I had been there longer than Jeff Garcia. There's no knock on him. I feel like I was a second, like said the second coming of Jerry Rice I was looked upon to fill his shoes they dragged my contract negotiation Shannon out the entire summer the entire summer Jeff Garcia plays maybe I think two years backing up Steve Young plays a couple of years his contract years is is up took them two weeks two weeks and they got his deal done so for me it let me know in his show okay he's more important than me when they don't value as much as you think. Exactly. I'm taking, I'm taking his, his balls three, four, five yards and taking it to the

house. He's not throwing no 60, 70 yard bomb. Right. But that's part of my job. I get that. Right. But as you said, I feel like I was being undervalued. And even like my first contract that I had, I mean, you know know players don't get involved with players contracts this and that and the other I had a small time agent at the time and we were trying when we're going through the negotiations. He came out and said that I wasn't worth the money that we were asking for. Who said that mooch?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. These are these are things that I experienced. So when I played throughout the course of the year, Steve Young will tell you, I played with a chip. And it wasn't because I was drafted a certain way or it was because how I was being treated. And me growing up in the South, my grandmother,

she told me these are things that I was going to experience. I didn't know I was going to experience it in the National Football League, but just in life in general and just as a black man. And so to see it, I didn't speak on it. I didn't say on it. I just put my head down, Shannon, and I worked every day, and I let my play do the speak for you. So even when Skip Bayless and everybody else jumped on the bandwagons

of all the things that happened throughout the course of the season, it was a topic throughout the course of the week. I knew all I had to do is play because I wasn't going to allow anything that they say to deter or distract what I was supposed to do, not from a personal standpoint, because I needed to produce. And then I'm not going to I'm not going to do anything to hinder or the progression of what we're supposed to do on the offense. And that's a team. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal.

Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claibon, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook,

Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day.

Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How did you and Jeff's, because you and Jeff was arguably the best Tampa quarterback wide receiver combo in the NFL. Right. How did that go so wrong so quick? I did an interview, and, you know, obviously, like I said,

I looked back and obviously I should have, you know, chosen some other words. And, you know, that kind of just, you know, I guess made things, I mean, kind of fractured it a bit. But I didn't, like I said, when I did the interview, I didn't really think about ramifications of what I was saying. But like I said, you know, with Jeff, like, we catered our offense around his strengths. Right.

You know, he's a rollout type of guy. Right. He's a tough move. Right. He's a tough, gritty guy. He's not your, you know, typical, prototypical drop back in the pocket passer gonna, you know, he's not your Tom Brady, your, your Peyton Manning. He's not that type of guy. Right. But our offense was tailored around his ability and I, and I adapted my game around what he had to do. Right. You know, you're familiar with the West Coast. I am very. You talk about the scramble drill. Yep.

I knew every I knew every position. And yeah, everybody. If you look at some of my highlights. Of course, you script plays. They don't go as planned all the time. You got to improvise. You were you were the X receiver. I was X, Z, Z, zebra. Zebra, eagle.

It's 20 personnel, yep. I became that much more valuable because they started me at one position. I learned that. Right. And then probably like, I don't know, a few weeks in the camp, you know, coach was like, oh, well, you need to learn this. Dude, it made me nervous. Exactly.

Because I'm just learning this position. And then he's like, yo, you need to learn Z. But then, like I said, I'm a visual person. Coach Stewart, he'll tell you. I'm crazy visual. So that's when I started learning how to really incorporate and knowing what to do with the plays. I'm the same way.

Let me see somebody do it. And you're explaining it to me, I need to see somebody. I need to actually see somebody do it. Okay, so that's what it is. So that's what, okay, Z spot, that's what you want. X land, X comeback, X dig, X drive. Okay. Then you can believe it.

Yeah. Okay, just remember what we just talked about. You got to see it to believe it. Right. You move on, contract's up. You're supposed to, your agent's supposed to file the paperwork to make you a free agent. Oh, man, I'm mad. I'm still mad about that. Your agent's supposed to

file the paperwork so you become a free agent. Yep. He drops the ball. Yep. The Ravens says, okay, I think the Ravens and San Francisco work out some kind of deal. Yep. But you don't want to go to Baltimore. Right.

And it had nothing to do with Baltimore itself, the team. I just felt like where I was in my career, the height of my career, I couldn't do what I was going to do or should be doing with an inexperienced quarterback. Right. You'd be a nice inexperienced, he wasn't very good. But anyway. But, I mean, but that's how I am. Yes.

You know, people would think that I would down talk somebody, but that's not who I am. Okay. I just looked at it as I need to find somebody to complement my skill set. And I didn't see that in a young, you know, young guy like Kyle Bowler. What happened with...

So how did your agent drop... How did he not go ahead and just file the paperwork at the beginning of the summer? Exactly. And that's why did he get to the lab? I have no, dude, trust me, I have no idea. And he tried to blame, he tried to blame it on the guys, the people at the NFLPA and I ended up talking to Gene Upshaw, God rest his soul. And I talked to him.

I remember when, I remember exactly where I was when I talked to him. I was off one of the exits in Atlanta in the parking lot where I get my hair cut. And I was on the phone with him, and he broke it down as to how my agent messed it up. Dropped the ball. Yep. And then my agent was trying to basically make me think it was their fault. Right. And then, you know, that was when fax was, you know,

it wasn't no DocuSign or anything like that. Right, right. That's when you had the fax. With the email, everything was faxed. Right. So he tried to blame it on, you know, it didn't go through and all this, blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, like you said,

I knew I wanted to become an unrestricted free agent. Right. So I could test the market. Correct. He should have done that immediately next day after the season ended. And so, again, I was a young kid. I wasn't even really thinking like that. Right.

And that's where, again, we as athletes, we have people we hire to really take care of some of those things that we, honestly, we may not be aware of or thinking of on an everyday basis. Okay. Somehow you get that worked out, you end up in Philly, which seems like a perfect situation because they got a proven quarterback. They've been going to the NFC championship game and they can't quite get over the hump. And at the time I said, you know what? I believe this guy is the missing piece. I believe this is the guy that can finally get them over the hump.

Well, I made the Pro Bowl and you know, if you don't, I mean, you get to the NFC Championship, you don't make it. The losing team coaches the Pro Bowl. Right. So I made the Pro Bowl those couple years. So that's how I got to play and meet some of the staff of the Philadelphia Eagles. Andy and Brad Childress. Yep. Yep. So that's where, again, the idea of me possibly playing for that team. And plus they had the West Coast offense, considering you had spent seven years in the West Coast offense. So this was a match made.

This was perfect. Man, it was from day one, from the first preseason game. We played the Ravens. And guess how many yards my first touchdown went for? 81. The first play. So you do that. You know what?

This is a sign. God, you speaking to me. Ain't no way this is supposed to happen. I had no idea until years later, and I'm listening. I'm watching the highlights, and the announcer is like, man, he calls it, you know, color commentator. He's breaking it down. I go out wide.

I think it's like cover to it, try to disguise it. Man, I release. I think I release inside, get back outside. They weren't even supposed to let me do that. Right. No, no, no, no, no, no. Right. Once you go inside, they got to ride you down.

But because of the dynamic talent that I am, you know, somehow I made it work. And I'm listening to the announcer, and he's like, man, this is a touchdown. He goes right down to the jersey number. And I'm listening to the announcer and he's like, man, this is a touchdown. He goes, right down to the jersey number. And it was like 81. I'm like, man, that's crazy. Because you had three touchdowns. That was the first game? Well, that was the preseason.

Yeah, the first regular season game against the Giants, I had three touchdowns. So everything, you're like, oh man, this thing going well, this thing going well. And then what happened? There was one game.

I can't remember if we were playing the Giants or it may have been the Browns, but we had one particular play. You know, you game plan, you script it throughout the course of the week. I ran some route, like a bench route, go in, get the safety to bite or the corner to bite, and I'm over the top. It's wide open every day in practice. I mean, even when we didn't have to script it, it was wide open. So we get in the game. This is my play. I run the route to a tee, just like we've been running all week in

practice, scripted, walk through. DB bike. You like this money. Shannon. Left him. I'm wide open. I'm looking better. I'm looking for the ball.

I'm like, I noticed a touchdown. He goes elsewhere with the football. So I get back in the huddle. I get back, go back to the huddle. And I said, yo, I was open. I said back. I get back, go back to the huddle. And I said, yo, I said, I was open. I said, what happened? He told me to shut the fuck up. Hold on.

Bro, you practiced this play all week. Yes, sir. There's nothing like you practicing a play, and it happens just like you drew it up. And you there like, oh, I'm about to get this money. And all you said, hey I was open I said what happened and he told me to shut the F up seriously and so I didn't say anything because coming from San Francisco

I didn't want to make no I already know what time it was so I didn't want to create no animosity no tension right there on the field so when we came off that series I went straight to my coach and I'm like yo I said because I didn't want to blame anybody. I

wanted to see what happened. Let me see what happened before I make any excuses. So I asked the coach, I said, what happened? Did he get flushed out of the pocket? So I'm thinking that's probably why. He looked at me. He goes, I don't know. He goes, Terrell, I don't know why he didn't throw it. He just

didn't throw it. So I left it at that. Okay. So, I left it. I left it at that. Then you go did you go to him and like Z Max? Not I I waited to after the game. Okay. And so again, me knowing everything that it transpired how you know I'm going to be looked at a villain. I'm on a new team. I wasn't trying to ruffle the feathers. I'm trying to be the consummate teammate. So I let the I let the everybody kind of just filter out of the locker room. And it was like a few guys left, whatever. And I just went to him and I just said, look, bro.

I said, I don't appreciate you, you know, cussing at me. I said, bro, I'm a grown man. Right. And I said, from here on, man, don't don't talk to me that way. Oh, it's going to be it's going to be a man. Right. And I said, from here on, man, don't talk to me that way. It's going to be a problem. Okay. And so I felt like me addressing that in that way was a mature Terrell. Yeah. Because I could have went off on the football out there in the middle of the field when we got to the sideline, but I wasn't trying to do that.

You're trying to be on your best behavior. Man, I'm trying to turn over a new leaf. Okay. So when he did, I just told him, I said, look, bro, don't address me that way. Right. I said, we're grown men. I got kids. Like, that's not going to happen.

Okay. And so from there, I think that's where the wheels come in. So when you said that, bro, don't address me like that, hey, I've shown you. I don't know. Honestly, I was so mad. I don't know what he said or if he said anything that really could have made a difference at that point. I just didn't like the the tone number one and then for real the way he came

and me my team and they was in the huddle. It was it was foul right. It was foul and so things just kind of just fell off fell off the tracks. You know from that point on after I'm sitting here listening to you talk. That was the one that was the one thing that I had. I don't mind being coached, but you can't curse me. See, I won't let you say anything to me that my grandmother couldn't say, and she gave me everything but life. She raised me.

So if she wouldn't say that to me, you can't coach me. Coach me hard. Say, son, what do you see? What do you see? We practiced that play. If I made a mistake, John, say, hey, T, I need you to do better, but don't curse me. No, it wasn't just no curse bro. It was it was demonstrative. Right? I mean, it was just I didn't trust

me. It struck a chord with me and like I said, I never forget it. And so like I said, I just I just felt like I needed to do that because if I just let that slide, I just felt like he was going to just continue to think that it was okay. Right? And so my grandmother always don't ever let nobody run over you. No. You know what I mean? That's how they say it.

Don't let nobody run over you. Right. Because if you do that, they're going to continue. And so for me, I just addressed it and left it at that. And so maybe he didn't like what I had to say. But like I said, I didn't allow that to really deter anything that we did on the football field. Right. When we went out on the football field, bro, I just played, you know.

And sometimes, you know, like I said, I was pissed. But, you know, like I said, I just did what I was supposed to do. So that game, that was early in the season. Do you believe that was the beginning of the end of your relationship? What do you think? Why do you think that was? Right, because, you know, as I – because I still start – I was balling. Oh, you were balling.

I look back. People tell me now I played in 21 games in Philly, I scored 20 touchdowns. Yeah. 21 touchdowns. I mean, 20 touchdowns. In 21 games, yeah. Yeah. And so I look back on it and the way that I was balling and the way the city embraced me and you remember

like when he got drafted it was either him or Ricky Williams, right? They booed him. I mean, so I think he had some resentment because when I started balling from week one when I scored three touchdowns against they were going crazy when they find out that they had the Eagles have signed you the fans were going crazy. They got the entire stadium to you to you to you. It was it was like something I had never experienced right everything probably that I wish I could

have done in high school or college. I was experiencing as a pro right. I was I was a star. I witnessed that on the sidelines in high school right with other guys. They were the star of the school star star of the team. In college, it was the same way. I worked my butt off, Shannon, to become T.O. Right. And so I can't imagine what he felt, or I guess maybe he had something against the city,

but to have 70-plus thousand, 67-plus thousand chanting, you know, when you do something big, have a big play. Right. And you're not – I guess he didn't feel like he was, you know, being recognized as such. And me coming there my first year and really making a difference. And then we get, you know, okay, I got hurt late in the season, December. And then –

Uh-oh, something was said. The thing was with the media was, was I going to be ready to play in the Super Bowl? Right. Him being the quarterback, the mouthpiece, the leader, the captain of the team, he had to face those questions, pretty much leading into the playoffs and what have you. And he basically said, we don't need T.O. to win. We've won games without him.

And so, I didn't really take any slight to it, but I heard it. And so, I guess he got... You said it was an unnecessary slight. He could have said, look, we want T.O. to get back as soon as he possibly can. As a quarterback, a leader of a team... You say the right thing. You be politically correct.

Regardless of how you feel, you be PC in that moment. Right. You can address it. You you know how to address it and so again, that was something that that kind of loomed and then there was a the contract situation after that, you know, he spoke highly of Brian Westbrook's contract basically endorsing that the team should should sign to an extension but when it came to me nothing radio silent nothing So that's when I knew that it was it was something personal. It wasn't anything

Personal with me against him because I'm not that person right now I've never been that type of person, but you are the type of person if somebody cross you you done. Oh, yeah For sure. Yeah. Yeah, but if yeah, but I'm not the type. I'm not no No jealous type of person. I'm not a hater. I'm not no gossiper. I'm not going to talk bad about another person because I may think he's better than me or whatever. I've never been that type of person. I've been my own person because I knew my path and my journey to be, to be who I became.

What happened with the fight situation in Philly? With Hugh Douglas? They brought him on as a team ambassador or something like that. I was rehabbing an injury or what have you. So him and Dunham was buddy-buddy. They were good friends.

Didn't he come back from Jacksonville? Yeah. They brought him back. He was sort of like the team ambassador or what. Yeah. So they brought they brought him back. Yeah. And so he was sort of like the the team, I guess, ambassador or what have you. And so obviously, I'm like, I'm like the black sheep. You know what I mean? Okay. Okay. I'm like the black sheep. So, you know, him and him and Donovan, they're friends and he would not we've talked, you know, disgusted or what have you. And again, I'm pretty sure he wish he could have done some things differently and thought things through

or maybe even talk to me. Right. But obviously, you know him and dumb and being friends and obviously like i said donovan really didn't like me or at you know at one point then it would it it all became personal and he's trying to do things to antagonize me this and that and the other and i remember i was in the uh i was doing some treatment i was down in the hydro works pool or what have you and man i'm not no punk bro I'm not no punk, bro. I'm not no punk. And so he came in and he tried, he said something and the door was cracked and I didn't like it.

And I asked him to raise me up out of the HydroWorks pool. I went in there, went in my, kind of dried off a little bit when it got some stuff. And so we, we kind of got to tussling a little bit and Jeremiah Trotter kind of got in between us and tried to separate us. And I, man, I went through Trotter kind of got in between us and tried to try to separate us and I man I went through Trotter to get it to get at you. I was told this is you almost seen possessed man.

I just I'm not no punk bro. That's just me. I've been through so much. I was teased. I was I had low self-esteem issues when I was younger. I got younger. I got bullied. We didn't call it bullied.

We got picked on. You know what I mean? Before I knew what that was. And so, man, when I was in high school, we ran track and things like that. I had a guy that spit in my mouth while I was sleeping. I got picked on. So when I got older, man, it got to the point where I would always hear my grandma, don't never let nobody, you know, do you wrong.

Or if they bigger than you, she might pick something up, hit them around. But you are, bro, I grew up, trust me, you know what it's like. So I always remembered that. But man, I had gotten to the point to where I was upsized. I'm a grown man. Right. And I just wasn't going to allow. You won't take no inch off anybody else.

Bro, I didn't care who it was and how big you were. But, yeah, it was, like I said, I don't know what happened, but Trotter ended up, you know, kind of separating. And he'll tell you, he's like, I went through Trotter. I went through Trotter to try to get at Hugh. Come back the second year, you play, you're still ball balling and then Andy's like go home. What what led to Andy sending you home? I did an interview with a guy by the name of Graham Bensinger and I had met him in high school. He

was an aspiring journalist or whatever in high school when I was in San Fran. Right. And so now he's I think met him in high school. He was an aspiring journalist or whatever in high school when I was in San Fran. Right. And so now I think he's in college or whatever, but I told him, and he had asked me. I had no idea. I'm coming from at the end of the game. Right.

He goes, yo, I'm going to be a journalist one day, blah, blah, blah. I had no idea, like, years later, this guy would be interviewing me. And so I did the piece or what have you, and he brought up a statement or something that Michael Irvin had said. He was like, because at that time we were 4-3. Right. Second thing, we were 4-3. Still talented, still had a chance to make the playoff.

We easily, we lost some games, close games, and the only game that we got our butts kicked was the Pittsburgh game so we easily could have been six and one right and so he he was like yes asked a phrase the question goes you know I talked to Michael Irvin and I guess I guess Michael was doing TV or something like that and he was like Michael said know, if Brett Favre is you guys' quarterback, you know, you guys would be a better team or something along those lines. I just said, okay, I agree with that assessment. Right.

And it had no, it wasn't any slight toward Dunn. Right. I was thinking at what Brett Favre had accomplished and who he was at that time. Right. Being sort of like, he was a Hall of Fame quarterback. Right. So like, okay, we switch and you put that but I didn't but I didn't know you for be PC at that. But that's not I don't I didn't Shannon. I wasn't thinking that that time I wasn't I hadn't matured enough to understand the question, right? So process ask you got you got your question. Well, he got me and he got me up out of there.

He did. He got me up out of there. So when that comes up. So the next day the headline was Terrell says that Eagles would be better with Brent Favre. And I'm like what? I'm like, I didn't say that. I'm like, what are y'all? You know how ESPN is loop-de-loop. Yep.

It was all over. Right. So I go in the next morning, that's all that was on the TVs. You cut the TVs off? No, this was in the lunch in our cafeteria. You could have plugged them all. Man, let me tell you. There's a bug in the field or something. Man, so this became a firestorm, bro.

It just kind of just it was like things just kind of just went haywire. And so I tried to address them like, yo, that's not what I said. And I basically this is because I said I told myself, yes, I would agree with that assessment. But I said also Don told him, I said, yes, I would agree with that assessment. But I said, also, Donovan had been hurt. And I said, if Donovan wasn't hurt, I said, we could easily be 6-1 right now. But that's not what they reported. So the team captain, Brian Dawkins, his mother, Trotter, they basically cornered me in the training room.

What are you doing blah blah blah I said bro that's not what I said right so I asked him I said yo look at the transcript I said get the transcript and somebody went and got the transcript I said read it in its entirety you'll see exactly what I said right they understood I'm sitting in our trainer's office with Brian right they saw that right but that's not how the media speaked it. It was too late then. The transcript didn't matter because it was already out there. The damage was already done.

So I go to Andy Reid. I'm talking to Jeffrey Luehr and all those guys. And so at this point, they don't know what needs to happen. So I have a publicist, and we're trying to figure out what's going to happen. And so she basically wrote something down for me to obviously go before the press conference or what have you. And so she had faxed it in to the equipment room, to that number, to the equipment room. So whoever got it from the equipment room, they read it. room so that whoever got it from the equipment they read it so before I went out for my press conference went to the captain's talk to Brian I think and I

talked to Trotter I showed Trotter what I what I had to read like I was apologizing for the organization this and that and the other and it was a section only like you know I want to apologize to Dunham blah blah Trotter suggested I take that out because it was addressing because I was dressing him with the team right. He didn't feel like he didn't feel like that. I needed to address him. No you had yeah, you should have. That's what happened. So I didn't end up saying that part. I just said I apologize to the team, my teammates, and anybody that it offended.

I offended whatever by saying that. So whomever got it from the fax machine, they saw that I didn't read that. They saw that you didn't read or obeyed them with the original statement. Bingo. Got back to the coach got back to the coach. Then they must have told Donovan or what have you. And then he was ticked off because I didn't

personally address a specific address him. So Andy Reid wanted me to go out there in front of everybody. And do it in front of everybody and I told no, I'm not doing that. That's not happening. You're not doing what? I'm not going out there and he wanted you to do it again. I apologize in front of the team to Donovan personally and I'm like, I'm not doing that. No, sir. I wasn't doing that because number one, I knew in my heart that I didn't mean right for the way that the way

that it sounded nor how the media spun it. To make it seem like I didn't. Teal, you do understand how intent works. Intent only matters to you. The person that was offended is equally as offended whether you meant it or not. Right, but we never even got to a point of even

discussing that. You know what I mean? I was just like, no, I'm not doing it. Teal, why not just apologize? Because I felt like I did it within point of even discussing that you know i mean so i was like no i'm not doing it why did i just apologize bro you know because i felt like i did it within within the within the scope of what i address with that i address it so when i apologize to my teammates and anybody that i've been then that's basically me addressing that you can't do that because here's the thing you didn't you didn't say that's not just anybody. That's the quarterback.

And you said a quarterback from another team would be you guys would be better. Now, that's not how you meant it. Right. But that's how it came across. What's the headline? Because how do I get you to read the paper? I got to get headlines. So I got to put something in bold captions to capture your attention so you will actually read it.

So now that's – Bro, at the end of the day, when I've always said, you've heard me say this statement, if I could go back, yeah, there would be some things I would do differently. Okay. This would probably be one of those things. Okay. But at that time, that's not where my mindset was

because I knew that that's not what I meant. You know what I mean? I wouldn't intentionally throw my quarterback under the bus. I was just answering that question based on what he asked me. But then at the same time, the media did me a disservice because they didn't, like I said, they didn't include the second part of it. Because, like, yo, Donovan had been injured that year. I said, we could have easily been 6-1 instead of sitting here 4-3.

But the thing is, yeah, I just said, okay, I was giving more risk, not more respect, but I was just giving kudos and respect to who Brett Favre was in the caliber of quarterback. He was at that time, right? It wasn't anything any slight. No, it wasn't a slight. If you listen to how he phrased it, then you can see where I was coming from with my answer. What happened with you and Brad Chorges? Because you guys had a...

He was the offensive coordinator, right? You and him had a contentious relationship. Yeah, so once I think something happened, I got back. And at this point... Because you didn't get suspended for the Donovan thing. You got suspended with butting heads with Brad, right?

No, it was combination. You were thinking about being a combination thing because they were going to play Washington that week, right? And so Andy Reid basically said, you know, we're going to we're going to go play Washington. You're going to sit this one out and he said over the weekend. We're going, you know, we're going to we're going to go play Washington. You're going to sit this one out and then he said over the weekend. We're going to, you know, we're going to talk to the owner and you know, obviously the other players or whatever and we'll see, you know, we'll assess everything and then go from there. Right? And so, little did I know that was the last game that you know, the practice that I did

out that I played. Okay, they suspend you. It was only supposed to be for four games, right? No, they changed the rules because they suspended you indefinitely. Now they can only suspend you for four games. Right, yeah. But Donovan had a hand in, like I said, a feat. How you know that, T.O.? Come on, bro. Trust me.

Trust me. Trust me. Trust me. So that was bad enough for me to be suspended for the whole year That that situation. Okay, what happened? So what happened with the sit-ups in the driveway? What about it When the training camp that was me and Andy Reid we had it we butted heads I had you know, they have like positions After certain practice they go sign autographs. Right.

But I was injured. I was nursing a groin injury. Right. So that was my priority. I wanted to prioritize my – Your treatment for groin. Right. Right. So when I came there – do your research.

When I got to the Philadelphia Eagles and we went to Lehigh Stadium, it was tens of thousands there every day. Shannon, I signed autographs. I took pictures, everything. So I didn't feel like I needed to take away from my treatment of me getting better and being on the football field. But that's a given. And that's a West Coast thing.

What we do, they have to have certain groups. Like one day it might be receivers and DBs. You go and you sign autographs for 10, 15 minutes. The next day it might be receivers and DBs. You go and you sign autographs for 10, 15 minutes. The next day it might be someone else. So you might do that twice while you're in training camp. I was doing it daily because of just, I knew that was part of it. But if you're injured, you're exempt from that. You go get treatment. That's how it was in Denver. Thank you. So that's how I saw it. So I wanted to prioritize my health dude. He was running me in the ground dude. Like I ran every route every time done with that quarterback. I had to run around right? Yeah. Yeah,

that's not normally as a starter. Then you go. No, even even the head trainer had to tell him like look, he's nursing a groin injury. You can't just run and run. I practice hard, right oh i know i know and so it was getting to me so i got to the point like i needed to get back on the field that's how i was going to be productive right that's what people pay their money to come to see they come to see a show right so i wanted to prioritize that and we butted heads and he didn't like what i had to say and i said look my health is more important than going to sign some autographs. Like I signed just one day, right? So he he

didn't like what I had to say. He told me to go home. He's like, how did you say it to you? Did you say Andy? Look, I'm nursing a groin injury. Now. I've signed. I trust me. I've signed my fair share of autographs, but you should understand that I wasn't we were in it. We were in a setting. We were like in the hallway or whatever. And so we were just kind of just going back and forth to banter, you know, obviously started calm.

And then I didn't like what he had to say. He didn't like what I had to say. And then he was like, it's all again. I'm not going to be disrespectful. Right? But I was like, say, I voice is may have raised a bit, but he was like, you know what? I'm not going to be disrespectful, but I'm not going to let you be disrespectful to me. I just got you to coach now you don't think at this point i'm growing at this point i'm going yeah absolutely so he basically told me like you know what um go uh go home he said we'll we'll we'll get back to you um so i went back to the dorm got my stuff

i drove back to uh to morristown and little did I know, I get home. At this point, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm talking to, I'm a publicist at the time. I'm trying to figure out, I'm like, what do I do in the interim? And so I had no idea that the time that I'm in there and I got into place in my in my house.

I'm just walking around and then I heard some helicopters, but I didn't I didn't really think to write. Yeah, right. So then I hear a knock at the door and I got the blind a little shutter blinds. I looked through there Shannon. They were camped. They had done set up shop. Who told them though?

I mean, it was an hour and a half to get from Lehigh back to Moore's time. So you can only imagine who had contacted. The team probably had. By that time, and then like I said, the local media or whatever. So they had the news truck, everybody.

I looked outside the tripod. I was like, yo, this is crazy. And that was honestly, I knew I was going to start in. Shannon, I ain't going to lie. I was like, I'm a star. And so I just tried to make light of a situation, bring some levity to it. Okay. So before I left Shannon, I mean, before I left Lehigh, Coach Reed basically said, look, go home. We'll get back to you.

Don't call us. We'll call you. Yeah, he said, just keep yourself in shape. Okay. Because ain't he really a good dude to you? No, no, no. He is. No, no.

Red is a good dude. We call him Red. We call him Red. I talk to him now. Man. So I get to the house, and like I said, things happen. And I just remember, you know, he was like, just make sure you're in shape. Right.

So, you know, at my house, I had an ab bench, you know, laying around the house, this and that and the other. So they kept knocking at my door. So I'm like, man. So I call my publicist and she goes, you know, I said, what should I do? Blah, blah, blah. So I said, I went outside at one point in time. I had a basketball goal. Went out some flip flops. I'm just shooting basketball. You know should I do? Blah, blah, blah. So I said, I went outside. At one point in time, I had a basketball goal. Went out some flip-flops.

I'm just shooting basketball. You know what I mean? I remember the aerial shots they showed me. So I went back in the house. And then so when I went back out. You should have been like Pucks of Charlie Field. Once you go back in the house, stay in the house. Like Groundhog Day.

You stay in your butt in the house, T.O. But they was going to camp out there all day. I had to go eat. Call the police over. So this is what I said. Let me just have fun with it. Like I said, in the back of my mind, I'm just hearing Andy Reid, keep yourself in shape.

Right. So I'm looking around, so I see my ab bench. And so I was talking to my publicist, and so that was the time when you had the little earpiece. Yeah. And to this day, nobody knew that she was on my earpiece. She was on live when I went out there. Right.

So when I took my ab bench out there, I was answering the questions. She heard what they were saying, and so she was just telling me what to say or whatever. And if there was something I didn't want to answer, I just said, no comment. Right. So that was the reason behind me bringing, number one, the ab bench out there. Because I'm like, hey, he told me to come home, you know, come in here and stay in shape. So that's what I was doing. Okay.

So you leave Philly. It didn't work. I mean, you had a great, like you said, in 21 games, you had 20 touchdowns. You did go to the Super Bowl. Let's talk about that Super Bowl. Normally, if somebody plays injured or plays hurt, it's like, you know what?

Man, he did a good thing. Now he should be commended. Why did you get so much criticism? You're the only guy that's ever played in a game when you're in, you're not hurt. You're injured because you're seven weeks removed from a broken ankle and a torn ligament in your ankle. Why did you get so much criticism for trying to help your team win? Had that been anybody else that a bit of statue of them?

Like I said, I'm black, you know, I'm outspoken. They looked at as me a brass, selfish, arrogant type of player. So anything negative, I felt like that they could throw towards me. That's what they did. And so again, at the end of the day, I said it at the end of press conference to him like, yo, this would have been Brett Favre. You guys would be praising him. You know what I mean? I looked at some of the games that he's played where he was sick

or dealing with family issues and the way he played. I mean, he was lauded for that. You know what I mean? Just recently, Tom Brady played with 13 stitches in the hand. They were like, that's like he did something miraculous. Right. But I played with the extent of the injury that I played with. Should have been out.

I even had to sign a waiver to play in the super bowl the doctor didn't even medically clear me didn't even clear me but i had a broken fibula yeah had two screws and a plate in my ankle and knew it at the end of the day man like my grandmother's always just told me just be true to who you are always have faith and that's how i played the game that's how i live my life man just on faith everything you know faith is belief in something that seems doesn't that doesn't seem possible right you know what i mean um that's what that was the caption on my post the other day and that's that's how i've always operated man and for whatever reason you know the you know things

were i was targeted believing the unseen. Yeah. People said this and that about me because of hearsay without even getting to know me. They perceived me, the perceptions. I get it. It's out there. But I know me. I know my heart. My teammates know me.

And just because, like I said, a few people that may not have liked me, people that are in the media, they created narratives. People jumped on those narratives. Networks did. And it just kind of just compounded. So I still get it today. People, they don't approach me because of what they've heard and read throughout the course of my career. You go to Dallas. Jerry Jones is all in.

Jerry Jones is getting it like he just opened a package, opened a present on Christmas. But the head coach, you and the head coach kind of butted heads right away. Oh, we didn't. I had nothing against him. I know you did. So we didn't butt heads. Maybe he had a disagreement in the decision that Jerry to bring you on.

But I had nothing against Parcells. None whatsoever. Right. So I don't really think we butted heads. He butted heads. Right. Because of, I guess, maybe he just didn't agree with the decision to bring me in. Because Keyshawn, his guy Keyshawn, had played with him in New York with the Jets.

He was there. And he didn't feel like I was the caliber of receiver that he needed. Possibly. But obviously, Jerry Jones saw different. Right. I mean, even to the point to like said, when I left there, Keyshawn went in the booth. He started taking shots at me when I was in when I was in Dallas. So. Too much is given much is required, man, and I've dealt with a lot. You had a great relationship with Tony Romo.

Tony Romo give you the ball. You go to Pro Bowl, You're an all pro. And then something happened. What happened? Bro, I have no idea. I signed a four-year extension. Right. Going into the offseason. After my third year, I played 06 to 09. Right. Jerry Jones calls me. And I felt honored at the call because I've been on teams where I've

heard how coaches general managers and owners talk to the vets of teams and kind of asking their input gauge same thing Aaron Rodgers is going through the last few years not feeling included right dude I feel honored he called me and he was like yo what do we need to get over the hump i gave him my assessment of what we needed to do based on the three years that i had been there i got an extension um i go into the off season i think it's like maybe two months i'm living in florida uh my agent elizabeth is uh is living in florida at the time financial guy and so uh the owners me that's a big owners meeting or something in florida so um jerry's coming to town my agent called me because yo jerry's coming in town he wants to talk to you this is right before i think uh the new stadium is we go into the new stadium in the following year he goes oh jerry didn't

what they want to talk to you blah blah blah about you know upcoming season right might i remind you now i just i've already signed an extension right so we meet them at this hotel on the water um him and stephen um agent was there uh drew was there and uh we go to this go inside the hotel and they take us back to the back in this restaurant and then they put us you know put us put us at a table and so they take us back to the back of this restaurant and then they put us at a table. So they put a cloth over the table, this and that and the other. So we just started talking and I could tell Jerry had a couple of them. I could just tell.

So I didn't really think much of it. Steven was there. So we're at the table jerry's here i think drew was over here and i think stephen may have been over there i can't remember if the other agent was there or not and so uh he just started talking about the the organization and uh just making comparisons uh here and there talking about romo and the cowboys and bringing up me and then um and the Cowboys and bringing up me. And then he gets a pen and draws a line down the middle of the table.

So now he starts kind of differentiating, kind of just separating, kind of like everything that's like, okay, you know, the Cowboys over here, and then he put T over here. Then he would start, you know, he put one line over there, and then he started putting like, you know, he said Romo this, that, and the other, T over here. Then he would start, you know, he put one line over there. Then he started putting like, you know, said Romo this that and the other T over here. Organization here to here anything positive or you know, related to the cowboy. He put on one side and then he basically was like I'm on this on this side. You on an album you by yourself. So then he drew a line down the middle of this and he said we gotta part

ways. That's how I got cut. What? But you had just signed a four year extension the year before, right? That's how I got cut Shannon. No lie. That's how that's that's how it ended. Was. And I looked I lookedman I remember Drew looked at me and I looked at him and I'm thinking this is a joke. Rob Markman You're like, where the camera? Rob Markman Right. I'm looking for Ashton Kutcher.

Rob Markman Yeah, yeah. Y'all punking me, there's Candy Camera. I don't know if you all remember Candy Camera. But punk is... Rob Markman And then when we saw that it was real, I think Drew asked, he's like, are you serious? Is there is there any way we can resolve this or whatever? I did. I was kind of like in shock. I was kind of at a loss for words. I didn't I didn't really know what to say, what to do.

Because I'm Asian, like, where do we go from here? I don't know what transpired from really that phone call that we had, you know, months prior to that day. The reports are you can confirm or deny that there was some, started to be some tension between you and Jason Witten? Never. I don't even know where that comes from. I've even had and seen shows with you and Skip,

and they said that he bucked up at me. He confronted you. Bro, Jason Witten has never confronted me. We've never had any tension. And trust me, this ain't what he want anyway. I promise you. Witten has never confronted me. We've never had any tension. And trust me, this ain't what he want anyway. I promise you. Shannon, I promise you that.

I promise you that. I'm not no bad, tough guy with pressure. But we never had any tension. So I don't even know where Skip got that from. And he said that he confronted me. remember he was like oh uh Whitten confronted T.O. at practice and I backed down I'm like what but stuff like that I just I just let it I just let it go and that's how a lot of stuff in the media gets blown out of proportion do they believe xyz but T.O. your numbers didn't warrant a release do do do did Jerry I came on the show and I showed

you I told you everything. I even brought the, what is it, the release papers or whatever. It said conduct detrimental to the team is why I was being released. No. Was it performance-based? It was one or the other. Yeah, because that's two clauses. Performance-based or.

Right. So I think, yeah, it was marked performance base. Mm-hmm. It had – exactly. I brought the paper on the show because I got somebody to send it to me because it has to be filed with the NFLPA. Absolutely. And when I read that, it said the reason that I was being cut

was performance base. It had nothing to do with conduct detrimental to the team. But if you let Skip Bayless tell it, he'll piss in your face and tell you it's raining. Of all the releases, the parting of the way that the 49ers, the parting of the Eagles, the Cowboys,

it seems to me the Cowboys hurt the most. Bro, parting of the Eagles, the Cowboys. It seems to me the Cowboys hurt the most. Because I, bro, it's, and I don't like when, you know, obviously quarterbacks, you know, they're like the head coach. They start getting control. Romo started to play, you know, lights out. Again, I was a part of his success. And then he was dating Jessica Simpson. He was a star.

You went to bat for him. Remember they lost to the Giants? He was in Mexico partying with Jessica. You was on there saying, that's my quarterback. You went to bat for him. Trust me, not only did I see things that were going on during practice games or whatever where he was forcing the ball

and double coverage to witness. Bro, I wasn't the only one that mentioned some of those things. Maybe those guys weren't vocal enough or had the balls enough to say it, and I did. I addressed it. And maybe he didn't like the truth, but I saw it. And it wasn't like I addressed things behind closed doors. Like I said, when I went to Philly, I wasn't trying to have that stigma

that I was a bad teammate. All these things that I've heard, okay, we're going to keep things in-house, let's talk. That's what I was doing. Right. My coaches, they'll tell you, the things that we addressed as an offense or individual, it got outside of the room. And there were specific people in that room. So you know it came from one of them?

My coach even knew who that came from. You know, when no players, wasn't going to say nothing. And it got to the media about very, I'm talking about. Specific detail. Of what was being said. See, that's why you keep your circle small.

Because something get out, you know where it came from. You know who said it. Trust me. So all of that stuff, man, and the Todd Haley's, the Whitten's, and all the stuff that transpired, man, like I said, it is what it is. I know, like I said, they had a hand in me not returning.

There was something that happened. And when Dez went through that little situation, guess who was still there? It was a similar situation with Romo, Garrett, and Witten. Why he start, you know, trust me, whether it's smoke or fire, like I said, I don't just say stuff just to be saying it. And then years later, people now see and they think, man, T.O. was on to something. Maybe there's something to it.

I'm just not going to make something up, bro. Like, I was a team player, T.O. was on to something. Maybe there's something to it. I'm just not going to make something up, bro. Like, I was a team player, man. If I'm running routes, Shannon, I know my job is a number one receiver. I can be a decoy. I can be number one. I know how valuable I was. I mean, there were times, man, I would haul ass off the line, knowing I wasn't going to get the ball, Shannon,

but I know my tight end is going to be open. Somebody in the seam is going to be gonna, that's what I do. Right. That was games I remember, I'm sprinting down the field, I'm clearing out for my guy, I wanna get my guy knocked out. He makes a big game, I'm running back to the huddle, Whitney man, he goes, man, T, he goes, man, this play never happens if you don't do what you're doing. Right. Shannon, that's who I was. Right. and T, he goes, man, this play never happens if you don't do what you're doing.

Shannon, that's who I was. Right. But if you listen to the media, they're going to tell you something totally different. And that's why I was so confident in my ability and I did what I did and I was still outspoken because my grandmother told me to tell the truth. You know what I mean? I didn't know anything about being politically correct, Shannon. Right. You know what I mean?

That's not, I wasn't wired that way. And when they asked me something, I answered it. You know, I wasn't thinking, OK, if I answer this way, OK, this is putting this guy, you know, in harm's way. I wasn't thinking that way. But as I got older and I thought, OK, this is the media's angle. This is how they do things. And so now, like I said, then when you start not wanting to talk to the media, then they have a problem with you. When they're making you look bad, it's like, okay, you can't win. So that's why, like I said, I let my play do the talking and speaking for me, and I felt like it did loudly. So I realized that I had the last say.

Like I said, whatever went on, if I went out and played poorly, it was only going to validate what they were saying and what they were talking about. So I just did what I had to do. Tia, I mean, I don't think sometimes you even realize what you accomplished. You go to San Francisco and eventually you're the leading receiver. You go to Philly, you're the leading receiver. You go to Dallas, you're the leading receiver. You go to Buffalo and you only, what'd you play?

I think you played 14 games. You're the leading receiver. You go to Buffalo, and you only, what'd you play? I think you played 14 games. You're the leading receiver. And it was guys, what, 10 years younger than me? Yeah. Lee Evans was the leading receiver in Buffalo. I go to Cincinnati. Chad had been there with Carson Palmer for 9, 10 years. He's been the leading receiver.

And you'd have had a double-digit touchdown and a thousand yard had you not tore your knee up with, up with two games left, three games left? I finished with, what, 973 or something like that. Could have had a thousand. Easy. Right. Ten touchdowns. And during that season, people don't even know.

That Monday night, if you go back and watch that Monday night game and see the highlights, I had a broken hand during that game and had like ten receptions, something like in a touchdown and against Troy Palomalu. I had broke my hand during, during the week of practice. All I did, I put a pad on it, balled out. When I got up, people didn't even know that when I got, when I got tackled, I had to get up off my, on my wrist. Cause I couldn't put my hand down. Right.

But those are the things that I did. I played with pain. I did it for the team. You know what I mean? Cuz I knew how valuable I was. I learned that early on. I saw what Jerry did and then I adopted, you know, some of those things that he did in his play and then I just took what God blessed me and kind of just took a little bit of what Jerry did and you you got T. O. what Jerry did and you got to if you could have you talked to Donovan since you left Philly

man. We've talked and addressed that a couple of times and then I think it was over the summer during the last year. It resurfaced. He tears does this show called untold stories. He brings Donovan on and this is how it came, and this is how it comes back up. He addresses what happened or what have you, and then he says that I prevented them from going back to Super Bowls, this and that and the other, which was a bunch of hogwash because it's hypocrisy at its finest

because during the time that they were asking him questions about you know what i'd be ready i did we need him he said he didn't need you he didn't need me but now years later you want to recount what happened and now now i prevented you from going prevented the team from going to the super Bowl. So which is it going to be? Right. So I just had to basically just follow up, you know, on, you know, do a follow up or just kind of just. But y'all cool? No, we ain't cool. Not after that.

Because I thought we were. We had addressed it at some point. I had to run into him and I thought we were cool with it. Okay, okay, okay. And then this show comes about. Untold story. Right. And it's. Hold on, bro.

I thought we had put this to bed. So I just had to address, you know, what he had put out there. And so I basically just gave my side of the story. So, man, during that time that I played and, you know, media had asked him during my tenure there, you know, did I help him become a better quarterback, this, that, and the other? He got a – I think he took offense to that. Why?

You have to ask him that. I don't know why. But I even had – I had a conversation with my receiver coach at that time about some of the same things that the media was asking about his stats and how they increased. You look at before I got there, when when I got there and after I got there, it was obvious. Right. And my, my coach knew that, but for whatever reason,

he didn't like the question or the idea that I came in and I made him a better quarterback. But it's okay. It's fact. Look at my numbers with John Elway. Look at my numbers without. But I didn't have a problem. I didn't have a problem. He had the problem with that. I didn't. Right. So this is where all of this, you know, like you said, where things went wrong, that it was him.

It wasn't me. But everybody would think it's me because of history. Right. And the narrative that everywhere that I go, I'm an issue. Yeah, it's hard to outrun your reputation. Right. So, like I said, I just had to be true to who I was, man, at the end of the day. I know that with

every quarterback that I've played, the good ones, the average ones, not so, I wouldn't have been able to do what I did without them. Right. It was a complimentary thing. You know what I mean? So, it was, I was, I was like a kid in a canister, just like Andy knew what he was getting.

I knew what I was getting myself into when I went to a high-powered offense that needed somewhat of my caliber. The defense was stocked, stacked. You got Trotter, Simon. You got Dawkins, Lewis. I mean, the defense was there. Our defense was like offense. So I already knew I was going to be scoring touchdown left and right

because we were going to have a short field. We were going to get the ball a lot. And so the numbers that we put up, like, he improved in pretty much every category. Right. And for whatever reason, he doesn't, not that he needs to or I need any validation, but the media. But the numbers speak for themselves.

I get that. So, like I said any validation, but the media. But the numbers speak for themselves. I get that. So, like I said, it wasn't a me situation. It wasn't me that was causing the issue. What's your relationship like with Tony Romo? I mean, we're cool. I haven't really said too much about, you know, to him or what have you. Have you all run into each other? No, I don't think.

No, we haven't. No, we haven't talked. You mentioned a lot about your grandmother. You grew up in a small town in Alabama, Alexander City. Talk about your upbringing and how that shaped the T.O. that we see today. Man, went to church. You know how they went to church every Sunday, do it throughout the course of the week.

Church, Bible study, Sunday school. Missionary, Bible school. Quiet practice. Man, it was something to do every day of the week. Yes. Deacon board meeting. I didn't even have nothing to do with that, but I was going with my grandmother.

She went, I went. Right. And she always instilled like she instilled us in, you know, what faith was about. Right. The higher being of God and you know I'm not a Bible thumper or anything like that right I know I'm truly blessed I didn't get all this just wake up with it right I mean and so like

I told you faith you know that's what she always told me. Believe in yourself and have faith. And I've always been that way, you know, throughout everything, through the highs and lows, just with the naysayer, the detractors. I mean, even just being on social media and even now just with, you know, me posting stuff and people thinking I'm crazy i'm washed up they thinking i'm doing it for xyz they don't know me right and if they got a chance to see how i was raised i was raised by a strict grandmother you know growing up in the segregation era um um listening to her talk about the hardships not only that she had gone through but her mom and dad picking cotton bro i can't imagine picking cotton in the hot sun bro we get in the hot sun we got we're going in the shade my daughter two years ago took her to alabama for the first time

shannon she was like it's hot i got she couldn't stand it she wanted to go in the first time, Shannon, she was like, it's hot. She couldn't stand it. She wanted to go in the house. But I can't imagine, you know, some of the things that, you know, we as black America has gone through and just listening to her talk to her friends at that time, you know, some of what she had to go through. And so even, like I said, going through some of the things that I saw, the systemic racism and just being treated differently because I felt like I was a black man, strong man and outspoken.

Shannon, I wasn't doing anything wrong. My mom, my grandma, they would be the first to tell me I had coaches black coaches on the staff that I looked looked up to as big brothers fathers or whatever they they would they was aware of what was going on and they pulled me to the side they like yo T you're not doing nothing wrong if you're doing we'll tell you right that's why I still went out there no matter what the no matter what the media was saying about me and that's why I still went out there in that field and I played because I was I was a strong but I was mentally strong and I didn't allow anything and everything that the media said about me it was good or bad or what have you and some

of a lot of it was bad to manifest because you talk about mental health awareness how it is now right i would have been a candidate for that right but i think that's not how i roll that's not how i was built right you know as an athlete we're built to get to that next level no matter what it's mental toughness that's what makes us who we are. That's what makes the good and the great ones so great. And not taking away from, you know, minimizing mental health awareness. I know that it's out there because we all experience that sometimes. We go through those dark days and times. We all get depressed.

We all have some days better than others. So, man, just growing up in a house, man, and not knowing who my dad was until I was like preteen, right before 13, and realizing that I was going to my dad's house and I didn't know. He stayed right across the street from me. I never thought about it, but I mean, as I grew up, I'm sure that may have had some type of effect on me. But I didn't prioritize what I didn't have or what have you. I just made do with what i did have and that was my grandmother there and she taught me right from wrong and then

even now i mean people again they will perceive me to be this person because of how the media has betrayed me but if i was such a bad person you would think of 10 years or whatever how many years i've been out of league i would probably be in jail. I probably would have done something to validate or give you a hint that, okay, this is what he was doing. This is what he is. But I'm not that, Shannon. And I thank God for my grandmother for who I am. And that's why I hold my head up high

no matter what anybody says about me. And I know there are people that I'll come in contact with. They look at me sideways. They think certain things. I can see it. I it but i am who i am and like i said i'm not going to change just to appease you um like i said the things that i've done on the football field has afforded me daily opportunities right um you know people i mean there's stuff on the internet about me losing money and having this, that, and the other. I'm doing such and such for money. Bro, I've been without money and I've had money.

Right. And I'm fine. Right. I look good, my kids are fine. Why are they worried about me? Right. So again, my grandmother, like I said, I owe a lot to her and my mom.

Right. My mom, like I said, she raised four kids. I got two sisters and a mom. My mom, like I said, she raised four kids. I got two sisters and a brother. They supported me. And, man, it's amazing that I came out of Alexander City, Alabama. I came out of Benjamin Russell High School. Shannon, we had some studs. We had some stars at Benjamin Russell High School.

And I guarantee you, none of them would have thought that I would have been the one that made it to where I made it. I appreciate you stopping by, man. Man. Best of luck. Continue. Appreciate it. All with the wine, the glasses, the clothing.

Oh, yeah. I got to get you some of my candles, too. I got candles, everything. You know, I told you about my three pillars of success. success Yeah, desire dedication and discipline and I have a wine pairing candle that goes with the wine We took some of the tasting notes right and we made a wine pairing can and a gold vessel So we have since dedicated to desire Dedication and discipline, you know, I live drop it off What bro, I want you to I want you to unveil it just like you

unveil your LeBron's and your shoes shoes surgeon shoes yeah I want yeah I want that same treatment you want the first one to call me after I have my hip surgery say you need anything man I drop a I know I know where you live I drop it off if you need it bro I appreciate that I know that I know I feel yeah you know I I drop it off if you need it, bro. I'm good. I appreciate that. I know that. I know. Theo. Yeah.

You know I'm going to bat for you. No, no, for sure. And like you said, I take the criticism, good and bad, and I take it for what it's worth. Because you know I'm a true friend to you. That's what you know. Yeah. Good looking.

I appreciate you stopping by. Best of luck on your podcast. I heard you about to start shooting that back again. Yes, sir. Best of luck on your podcast. Give us you're about to start shooting that back again. Yes, sir. Best of luck on your podcast. Give us the name up right quick before we end. Get Your Popcorn Ready Podcast with myself, T.O., and Hatch. It's going to air August 22nd

on Fubo Sports Network at 8 p.m. every Sunday and on YouTube anytime. Appreciate it. Yeah. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news

and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolfe. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.