Club Shay Shay - Tracy McGrady

Episode Date: April 18, 2022

Shannon welcomes in 7-time All Star, 7-time All-NBA selection, two-time scoring champ & gold medalist Hall of Famer: Tracy McGrady.Listen & follow more FOX Sports podcasts: http://sprtspod.fox/applepodcasts#DoSomethinB4TwoSomethin & Follow Club Shay Shay:                                                                 https://www.instagram.com/clubshayshayhttps://twitter.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.facebook.com/clubshayshayhttps://www.youtube.com/c/clubshayshay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm going to give you Ja, Luca, Trae Young, LaMelo Ball. It'll be between LaMelo Ball and Ja. If LaMelo Ball can get to La La Land, because I think he's built for that. Yes. He has that personality, that moxie. He's built for that. I think he can be that face. All my life, sacrifice, hustle pay the price. Want a slice, got to roll a dice. That's why all my life, I've been grinding all my life.

Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Che Che. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Che Che. And the guy that's stopping by for conversation and a drink today is a seven-time All-Star, a seven-time All-NBA selection, a two-time scoring champ a gold medalist hall of famer his government name is tracy mcgrady we all know him as t mac t mac what's up bro i'm good brother it's a pleasure to be on your platform man thanks for coming on today how you doing

i'm doing good man you know been retired for about nine, ten years now. Four kids, married. I'm loving life, bro. And what's crazy is I'm more busier now than when I was actually playing ball. Yeah, with kids, of course you're going to be more busy. Listen, I'm being pulled every weekend, whether it's volleyball, it's my son's AAU basketball. I'm all over the place. Every weekend, I am am gone so what's the ages so i have a daughter at the university of miami right now this is her freshman year okay

uh she's the oldest my youngest is 12 so i got 19 16 14 and 13 okay two boys two girls oh that's great congratulations first let me congratulate you on your business venture. You started a league. It's called OBL One Basketball League. First, let me ask you, what made you decide to start your own league and why this format? Well, I think, you know, when you look at the landscape of sports, we have three on three. You talk about UFC, where it's one-on-one fighting. You talk about tennis, two people going at it. But in the sport of basketball, we don't have one-on-one.

We have underground leagues, but we don't have a major platform to identify. There's a lot of untapped talent out here. Everybody can't make it to the NBA. Right. Everybody can't get that call to go and play overseas and make $100 to $500 million. So I wanted to give guys an opportunity here in the States, give them that platform.

And some of these guys probably had something to, you know, along their journey where they deviated off the course, made a left turn, and, you know, things happened. They were teenagers, and they didn't get the opportunity to do their dream. I want to offer that dream. So I'm looking to create stars, tell their stories, and take this thing global. Do you think one of these guys, because obviously one-on-one

and the thing, but the NBA is that all the really great players are all really exceptional one-on-one players. Do you think your platform will allow some of the guys to get a look, even if they don't have college eligibility? So I I'm not, I don't want NBA players.

Okay. I don't want NBA guys, no retired NBA players. I don't want NBA players. You don't want retired NBA guys? No retired NBA guys? No. No, no, no, no. No, Shayshar, there are some guys on the block right now.

Give the elite NBA players the business in the game of one-on-one. Right? What? Absolutely. Absolutely. Listen, one-on-one right what absolutely absolutely i listen i i've seen some of these guys shay right and these guys go man there's a lot of under underground leagues that are out here they people just don't know about it i want to give them a platform i'm telling you there there are carries out here there are james hardens. There are James Hardens out here. KD, they're out here.

Right. I've seen them. Wow. The league, the ages are from 18 and up. The games are going to start in Atlanta, Chicago, New York, DMV, L.A., the Bay Area, with the finals in Vegas. Now, you're going to have three winners from each city, correct? Yes, sir.

Those three guys in each city advance to Vegas. Yes, sir. You win $10,000 for each city, correct? Yes, sir. Those three guys in each city advance to Vegas. Yes, sir. You win $10,000 for each city. The winner of each city will win $10,000. So there's 32 participants in each city that we're inviting. So you're only taking one for each city?

No, no, no. We're taking three, but I'm saying the number one winner is going to win the pot for that region. Okay, okay. And then you go to Vegas. So all three, 21 players, they're going to Vegas. And that's where we're going to crown the king, the ruler of the court, for $250,000. So the winner gets $250,000, the other $20,000. Bro, y'all had a good run, but it's up.

Hey, man, come back, try it again next year, bro. But, you know, I look at this, you know, this platform. I kind of, you know, want to get to where UFC is at. Right. Right. Okay. Like who were the UFC fighters before they got on that platform? Correct.

And then they became this character and became a big household name. That's what I want to do for these guys and for the one-on-one league. That's exactly what I want to do. T-Mac, I don't know. We used to have a game. We called it 11 or we called it 21. You own no team, and you grab the ball, and everybody had to play defense. You tried to score on everybody, and the winner,

you felt like you really accomplished something because sometimes you got a guy that's way taller than you way older than you guarding you and the first one to 11 or the first one to 21 man you felt like you accomplished something man absolutely so so here's here's what i don't want to happen though shay i don't want to have a five pin guy going up against a 610 guy right you know i'm saying like that that's kind of lopsided because the 16 guy all you got to do is just back the guy down right and then you know get an easy bucket so going through the first season you know we're gonna have to try to watch out for that right but here's what here's what the the ideal of one-on-one what i want to bring to the people i want to break it into a height class yes okay yes have weight classes i want to do height classes so you got your six three and under right right then you got your six four the six seven class right right so

i i want it to be evened out. I don't want this to be a gimmick. And then in those classes, where there's a 6'3 guy who's the champion and there's a 6'10 guy and the fans want to see that matchup, hey, maybe we'll make that happen. But I want it to be evenly matched

before we create those type of matchups because I don't want it to be a given. It's funny that you say that because in the original UFC, there were no weight classes. So you had a 150-pound guy fighting a 250 or 300-pound guy. Absolutely, and it wasn't great content.

It wasn't great content. T-Mac, when did T-Mac happen? I mean, obviously you say you got a son that's playing AA, traveling AAU ball. You played traveling AAU ball. You went to the tournament, the tourneys. I don't know if it's the ABC, the Nike, or wherever the case may be. When did T-Mac become T-Mac?

1996, summer of 1996 in Teaneck New Jersey I was playing spring football and out of nowhere this guy that was affiliated with Adidas came down to Polk County and said he had an opportunity for me but within within that opportunity, I had to stop playing football. Okay. So he gave me the opportunity to go and play at the Adidas camp. I knew nothing about this. This is my first camp ever. You know, I'm in small, you know, Arvindale, Florida, 10,000 people.

I don't know what's going on outside of Central Florida. Right. I hear about Lamar Odom and these elite guys. And I'm like, you know, let's go. I want to see where I am as a basketball player because I feel that I'm one of the best. Right. But I don't know. I've never played against talent outside of, you know, Florida.

Right. So I get to this camp, Shark, and I'm seeing this 16-point guard, man. And I'm like, oh, Lord. You know, 16, where I'm at, they're going to make you the center. Correct. This dude is bringing the ball up, and he looks smooth. I'm like, ooh, ooh. So he was the first guy I faced, man.

And, you know, I had a great game against him. And then throughout that whole camp, you know, I was just making a name for myself. There was the buzz going around like, who's this cat? This is Cat Trace McGrady from Florida. Right. And, bro, here comes the – I made the all-star game that weekend. And the signature to put the icing on the cake for that weekend, I was coming down on the left side

and a guy was running down the middle and i didn't really see him i was going to windmill you know that that was in my mind so windmill this ball so i went up windmill it just so happy he jumped into me and i windmill doing him and everybody in the stands, people running on the court, it was pandemonium in there. That's when I arrived. From that point on, I made a name for myself. And that just took place in the summer. So you knew from that moment, OK, there's going to never be any more football. I'm Tracy McGrady.

I've arrived. OK, let me focus on this. My life changed at that very moment. When I left that camp, I was being considered as the top prospect in our class, in 1997 class, high school basketball players. When they played out my high school career, my senior year in Durham, North Carolina, and I became the number one basketball player in America. year in Durham, North Carolina, and I became the number one basketball player in America.

So you leave Florida to go to Durham, North Carolina. What kind of transition was that? Because you had said you really haven't been outside of Central Florida. You hadn't seen a whole lot of players outside of Central Florida. So now you leave your base, which is Central Florida, and go to Durham, North Carolina. Why did you do that? You know what I say? It's, it's really just taking a leap of faith. Okay. You know what I mean? Because I've seen so many guys come before me that was extremely talented, but they ended up becoming local heroes, local celebrities, if you will. Right. So this was just an opportunity.

I mean, this was all God's plan for somebody to discover me that I had no relationship with and give me the opportunity to go to this Adidas camp. That created the path for me, and that created confidence that I was on that right path. Right. So it was just a no brainer for me to leave Florida because of the opportunity that, you know, presented itself. And I couldn't I could not let that pass by. And it was, you know, obviously being a great decision on, you know, my part in my family. being a great decision on, you know, my part in my family.

Your senior year, after you finish up your senior year, did you have any ambitions of going to play college? Oh, so you were going to go to Kentucky. Yes, sir. I knew you was going with that. Yes, sir. I took my visit to a couple of colleges. Yes, sir. Listen, I took my visit to a couple of colleges.

But when I went to Kentucky and I saw how those boys was living, I said, this is where I want to go to school. Okay. Right? I was already a fan before I went there. Right. But when I took that visit, bro, and I seen how they were living up there as college students, college athletes.

Right. I want to go to Kentucky. What? Adidas, you go to the Adidas camp, you make a name for yourself in the Adidas camp. Adidas come in and say, okay, we got something special here. We about to break him off.

What's going through your mind now? So I'm sitting in my coach's office. Okay. And he's telling me I I you know giving me this speech you know I know you love uh Kentucky and what they have to offer and I know you'll do great just giving me all this but he's like I have an offer from Adidas They want you really bad. And when he said it in front of me, at that time, 18 years old, it's not a hard decision. It's not a hard

decision. Coming from where we came from? Right, from where we came from. It's like, man, forget college, bro. They just offered me $12 million. Like, what? I can't turn that down. Right. So, you see this check of that Tracy McGrady.

$12 million. What's going through your mind? Mama, we made it. Mama, we rich. Mama, we rich. Man, look. Hey, man, look. I ain't got to be laying on the couch mama re-rich mama re-rich man look I ain't gotta be laying on the couch and hearing rat traps

being popped I ain't gotta turn on the stove to warm up the house that night gotta go get some kerosene to put on that heater I ain't gotta do none of that stuff no more this is too much information for you but bro I used to sit

sit on the toilet and have to raise my feet up because we had rats running around bro you know what i'm saying like hey man oh them days is over with bro so you're obviously your your mom's not there was your mom with you or did you call your mom on the phone say mom get up here i got some great news I don't want you to see this, Mama. Nah, so my parents were still in Florida, and I was in North Carolina at the time still. Yeah, so I called. I made the call to them,

and, you know, obviously, that was overweighing with joy, but, I mean, that's, to me, that's what it's all about, man, that type of impact that you have on your family and even going through my career. I wasn't fortunate enough to win a championship. Right.

But when I look back on what I was able to do for my mother and my grandmother. You won the championship in life? Absolutely. Absolutely. So, let me ask you a question. Let's just say for the sake of argument, we're going to fast forward. We come to 2021. Somebody got obviously $12 million.

Kentucky is still on the table. Are you going to Kentucky with $12 million in your pocket? Because you know Kentucky is a Nike school. You can't wear Adidas out of Nike school. What you going to do, T-Mac? I'm going to Kentucky, bro. You gonna take the $12 million and still go? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Listen, if I can make $12 million and enjoy the college experience, why not? Why not? I love college basketball. I watch it faithfully. I watch my Kentucky Wildcats faithfully. So, yes, I would have taken that 12 and went to Kentucky for sure.

Obviously, it was a great experience to go to the NBA. But do you wish you could have enjoyed the college experience at least for just one year? Go to step shows, to be on the yard. You're not going to play your first year, but just to be a college kid. Because when you go to the NBA, you're an adult. I don't care if you're 18. You're an adult. Because you've got to get a place to stay.

You've got to sign a lease. You've got to pay all the bills, all the bills in your name, so you're no longer a kid. You're a grown-ass man. You're right right I think all that stuff that you mentioned I don't care about that but I think you know the one thing I do miss out on

is the whole March Madness day like that experience to me is like the memory that you would love to create and be able to talk about those memories 30, 40 years from now. So for that, yes, I wish I had the opportunity to experience that. But, you know, going to the parties and stuff like that,

I mean, that really is not my thing. When you played in the league, how much one-on-one did you play? Because, you know, the only time we get a chance to do one-on-one with DBs, I mean, it's a drill. We got one-on-one, but we're just not calling somebody out there just for fun. But you get a chance and opportunity to go one-on-one against a teammate. How often did you do that? So, first of all, I grew up playing one-on-one against a teammate. How often did you do that? So, first of all, I grew up playing one-on-one basketball.

Right. Like, that was my thing. I loved it. Whether it was with my brothers making a clothes hanger into a basket, you know about that. Yeah. Right? We had a basketball reel.

We had a basketball reel. You're not the spokesman. So, you know about that, right? We had a bicycle reel. We had a bicycle reel. You're not the spokesman. So you know about all that. Absolutely. So we did all that in the hood, right? But when I got to the league, obviously I felt like I was, you know, pretty talented offensively.

And my teammate was Doug Christie, who was a premier defender in the NBA. So I took it upon myself to play against Doug Christie, who was a premier defender in the NBA. So I took it upon myself to play against Doug Christie every single day, one-on-one basketball, because I know if I can figure him out and score on him, then I can score on anybody in the NBA. And with that, built my confidence as well. And that's why one-on-one to me is so important, because you could go and train two hours

with a personal trainer, but then you go and play 5-on-5 organized basketball. You have a coach. That coach has a different philosophy and role for you that you probably see yourself. And I'm not talking about the elite players. I'm talking about the guys that

probably are really talented, but they're not the guy. Right. You know what I'm saying? So they, they, they're being put in a role. So you train two hours,

you go in and play five on five organized basketball. The role might not be conducive to what you're training it. Right. Okay. So how many opportunities are you really going to get to where you feel you're extremely confident as a ball player? Right. OK. Yeah. So how many opportunities are you really going to get to where you feel you're extremely confident as a ball? Right. So one on one to me, if you do that same two hour training and you're training or playing one on one every single day, your mental toughness is going to get better and your physical and your skills uh skill set is going to improve immensely did you did you call out any players obviously you say you you you cut your teeth

with doug christie because he was a premier defender and you felt that if i can beat him i feel i should be able to beat him him him but did you call out some of the offensive guys because you know it's i'm better than you one-on-one. Bro, you're not better than me one-on-one. Stop saying that. No, I didn't call out anybody. You know, obviously, Kobe was somebody that, you know, I considered one of the best one-on-one players.

Like, he was the ceiling as far as one-on-one basketball. Right. And, I knew because he was older than I was, he came into the league before me. I knew I had to

sharpen my skills and my one-on-one skills if I wanted to compete against him. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I had to compete.

He was the measuring stick. He was the bar. Right. He was the bar. When I'm a young kid looking at Kobe, I'm saying? He was the measuring stick. He was the bar. Right. He was the bar. When I'm a young kid looking at Cole, I'm like, okay, he's the bar. He's who I got to come at, you know, and make a name for myself competing against him. T-Mac, when you were growing up, were you always the first one picked?

So when they're choosing up sides at the park, were you the number one draft pick every time? I was in all sports. But what's crazy is, you know, basketball is my third sport, right? Really? Yeah, basketball is my third sport. My first sport is baseball. Okay. And then I played football.

Were you a pitcher? As a kid, i played more baseball and football than i did basketball wow you keep you said that i read what you said the best part about the nba is the one-on-one because basically it's a lot of one-on-one okay the man in front of me i got to beat the man in front of me and you're looking at some of these one-on-one players like kd and steph and kairi right now as you and i have this discussion who do you believe is the best one-on-one player in the nba i have to say it'll probably be kd i don't think anybody can mess with KD at one-on-one. Seven foot, can shoot, can handle. I mean, he's so lethal offensively. But we got to have that height.

We got to have that height. Because Kyrie. I was just about to say that. I was just about to say that. I was just about to say that. to say that. I was just about to say that. I was just about to say that. But when we talking one-on-one

and not, if we're doing height-wise, the class, Kyrie, man. Kyrie got a bag, man. Oh, I'm talking about a very deep bag. Yeah. Very deep bag. Yeah, he got a Santa Christmas

bag. He got one of those bags. He got one of them bags. Yeah, he got a Santa Christmas bag. He got one of those. Yeah, he got one of them bags. Hey, hey, he got a couple sacks that he got on this bag, bro. He's carrying around. When you look at Kyrie, he got game from the three-point to the mid-range. Have you ever seen a man his size finish at the rim with either hand, kisses, the floaters, the fallaways? Like, have you seen anybody in your time and even now be able to finish like Kai can?

Yeah. Yeah. Rod Strickland. Wow. Rod Strickland was one of the greatest finishers at that size that I've ever seen. And he had handles, too. And I think that, you know, it's crazy. I think that's Kyrie's godfather. Okay. I think there's a know, it's crazy. I think that's Kyrie's godfather. Okay.

I think there's a relationship between those two. Right. But, yeah, straight, oh, my God. He was one of the best at finishing around the rim and had the handles. You mentioned KD. And when people talk about one-on-one, they say KD. The guy's seven foot tall. He got three-point range.

He got the mid-range pull-up. He got the heavy pull-up. He doesn't really, he doesn't really try, he likes to do like the mid-range. You don't really try to get all the way to the rim, although he can. Besides the height, obviously seven foot tall makes you very unique. Besides the height, what makes KD so unique? You start, man. Shannon, you can't leave out the high because that was, that's what makes him so unique is, is he's seven foot and to be able to shoot the ball and be efficient that way. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Like, think about it.

This man is shooting 50-some percent, and it's mostly jumpers. It is. Right? Like, that is insane to me. So I can't leave out the height on KD because that is – that's what makes him so unique and dynamic. Is he the most skilled player that we've ever seen in the NBA because of the height?

The most skilled player I've ever seen is Kobe. Okay. More than MJ? The most skilled NBA, the most skilled basketball player I've ever seen is Kobe being Bryant. Talk about Kobe's back. Listen, man. So you got MJ, right? And Kobe took who MJ was, but enhanced the skill set, had a better handle.

MJ didn't shoot threes like that. So Kobe took it upon and added the three ball to his game because that's where the game evolved to. But skill-wise, I mean, the moves, the footwork, he had it all. Kobe in a one-on-one battle. Do you believe anybody could beat Kobe in a one-on-one battle? Let's just say in their prime, MJ and Kobe, one-on-one battle. Do you believe anybody could beat Kobe in a one-on-one battle? Let's just say in their prime, MJ and Kobe, one-on-one. Who are you taking?

I think – and I'm putting myself in it. Oh, you're – okay. I will throw you in there. I put myself in there. I think if you play in-game, it'll be 5-5, maybe it'll be 6-4-1. But I don't think it'll be, you know, 8-2 or 7-3 or anything like that. I don't know. Okay, we're going to play a series of five. You get Kobe five times.

You get MJ five times. Kobe, MJ, what's it going to be? Is it going to be 3-2? Is it going to be 3-0? I mean, what is it going to be? Listen, I could sit here and say it'd be

3-0, 3-3-2. I mean, it's hypothetical. I don't know. It'll never happen, but all I know is it'll be a damn good show. It'll be a damn good show that people will definitely want to tune into. Well, it was trending, T-Mac versus Tracy McGrady, because you're one of the first big guys, slender guys, 6'7", could handle the ball, could shoot the the three pull up on the mid-range

but you got all the way to the rim you looking to posterize people absolutely that my thing was and i was telling my kids this this weekend because we had an au tournament in indiana right and our first game we played against the tallest teenager in the world he was seven six teenager in the world he was seven six get out of canada i i mean i was telling my kids because it was like oh my gosh he's so tall he's gonna block everything i'll say man i would try to dunk on him if i was y'all what are you talking about it couldn't be me because i'd be trying to put him on the ground on his back right so like their mentality is totally different so yeah my my thing was bro if you're in a way, I'm going to try to go through you or over

top of you. Right. The playoffs started. Obviously, the Knicks played. KD, Kyrie, are they the most skilled pair of teammates that we've ever seen? Without a doubt. Without seen? Without a doubt.

Without a shadow of a doubt. I haven't seen a pair, a duo that skilled. Mike and Pip. But Pip ain't have no offensive game like that. Jordan had the offensive game. Nah, but Pip did, though. Pip did have offensive game, but Mike was just so great. I mean, Pip did average 20 points now.

Yeah. You know, he was the all-star game MVP the year Mike left. He finished in the top five in MVP voting. But when I'm talking about you look at what Kyrie, how Kyrie can dance with the rocker, and you look at KD, you mentioned KD's seven-foot tall, from the three-point all the way to the rim, can do it all. Pippen ain't got that in his bag.

No, he doesn't. But, I mean, that's the only thing I can go off of, though. I can't. There's no other dynamic duo that compares to Katie and Kyrie. I mean, even if you look at what LeBron and D-Wade was, skill-wise, they're still not touching them two boys. Right. Even if I would have played with Grant Hill i don't know if g hill and myself it i think it would have been a challenge but you got two six eight guys that can handle

uh i can shoot g hill had a mid-range post game can pass can see the floor you you know what i'm glad you brought up grant hill do you think about what it could have been had he not suffered that ankle injury because he played on that bum ankle in detroit and we never and people don't know We were robbed of seeing greatness. G. Hill was such a great talent, such a cerebral player. Man, he had it all, bro. And it was just unfortunate that we never got the opportunity to play with each other consistently because of that

angle. And I know deep down in my heart, if he was healthy, I would have competed for a championship my years in Orlando. Wow. Ben Simmons, how much will he help the Nets? Because we know Kyrie

and KD going to be KD and Kyrie. We know what they're going to do. But what does Simmons add to the recipe? Simmons add an element to their team that they're missing right now. And that's defensively. That kid can guard one through five.

And with him being out so long, he could come in right now and have an impact on their team because he can play defense. He doesn't have to shoot the ball because he has two killers on that that's going to do all the scoring for them, along with

some of the other guys that they have, Seth Curry, the Patty Mills that can shoot. But the impact that he can have on guarding whoever the other team's best players, whether he's a guard, whether he's a power forward, it doesn't matter. Put Ben Simmons on here, he will neutralize that, and it'll

make them a much better defensive team. That's what they're missing. You do realize I'm bringing help off Ben Simmons. Whoever's guarding Ben Simmons, if Kyrie gets the ball, go double. If KD gets the ball, I won't be balling Ben Simmons' hands. But listen to what you're saying, though. Yes.

You are going to double off of Ben Simmons. Yep. Right? And help on a Kyrie or KD. Yes. So that means you're going to leave Ben Simmons, who is a very smart basketball player who could pass the ball, and leave KD in a one-on-one situation,

if you're going to double Kyrie, that is not a smart thing to do. But here's the thing that we know. We saw what Atlanta did to Ben Simmons. Is he where he needs to be mentally? I know what he can be, but I saw what he was last year at the end where

he became unplayable because of the free throw and his being afraid to shoot the basketball team, Mac. That's fair. That's fair because we don't know. I mean, the kid has been out all season. We don't know where he is mentally. I'm hoping

with him being out for so long when he does step foot on the court That he's healthy Mentally and ready to go Because he has a lot to prove He really does And I think he's going to do that Because I actually like his game

Last year I don't know We don't know what was going on with the kid off the court Something was bothering him Because I've never seen him play that way How did you like that situation because i felt it was unfair i mean what doc said and then joe lmb said that you know the game turned on we had a uh day lay up and we end up missing a free throw and i felt there was no coming back from that team. Once he uttered that, I remember coming on the show the next morning, I say, they're not coming back from this.

Ben Simmons is going to ask for a trade. And sure enough. Yeah, he was thrown under the bus. It was just an unfortunate situation that, you know, they looked at him on that particular play, and then it really just gave fuel to the media and they ran with that and like you said, there

was no coming back. In Philadelphia, you know Philly. Once some Philly fans was on you and when that series was over, I said to my friends and family, I said Ben Simmons cannot go back to Philadelphia. It is not a good look.

They got to trade that young man and get him out of there because it's not going to be a good look for him. Right. If he was to start that season. So they was going to boo him and it was going to get ugly. It was really, really going to be mentally tough for him to be engaged and, you know, competing at a high level for that organization. Well, they trade James Harden. He leave Brooklyn. He goes to Philly.

Philly trades Ben Simmons. How far do you think James Harden and Joel Embiid can go? I actually think that was a bad trade. Wow. I think it was a bad trade. I think Brooklyn won that trade. Wow. I think it was a bad trade.

I think Brooklyn won that trade. I think Joel was in such a groove, and that team was in such a groove. Now, James Harden is a dynamic scorer and a playmaker, no doubt about that. But it seems like, to me, he's slowing down. Right. He can't really get by his defender no more. I don't know what it is. I don't know if he's hurting, but he doesn't look the same to me.

I just thought they had such great chemistry before the trade to where Joel finally got in great shape to where he could finish out games and take over games. He's surrounded by a guy like Seth Curry who can shoot. I think the missing element out of that team is Tobias Harris. Like, he has – if you're going to give him $100-something million, bro, you got to elevate your game. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

While we got to trade, while we got to go and get a guy like James Harden where we hand you $100 million. Yeah, you're a max player. Right. You're a max player. Like, fill that role for us. Right. Because our big man is doing his job.

We have shooting. Right. You the $100 million player. Who's your MVP this season? That's tough. Because you got Joel Embiid that did what he did, led the league in scoring, the first big to do that since Shaq in 2000. You got Nikolaiid that did what he did, led the league in scoring, the first big to do that since Shaq in 2000. You got Nikola Jokic.

He's the first man in history to get 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, 500 assists. You got Giannis. Giannis was Giannis, 30, 12, and 5. You got Devin Booker. He was the best player on the best team. Where are you MVP? I got to go with Joker. I got to go with Joker. I got to go with Joker. I got to go with Joker.

I got to go with Joker, man. That dude, he's something special, man. He is. He is something special, bro. The man can't jump over a dollar bill. But, man, the passing, the rebound, what he brings to that team. He doesn't have Michael Porter Jr. or Jamal Murray.

Correct. And those boys are still winning. They're in the sixth seed. I have to credit him. But Joel Embiid, the way he came off the gates, can it be a co-MVP? No. My goodness.

I don't know. We've had co-rookies of the year with Jason Keenan and Grant Hill, but I don't think they've ever been co-MVPs. Well, this year they have to make an exception because it needs to be one this year. Because those two boys right there, they did their thing this year, man. And I need – I wish both of them would get credited.

You know, and I hate that I got to choose one and leave the other. I would go with Joker. And you know somebody getting left off first team All-NBA too because they play the same position. Somebody getting left out. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You look at LeBron. You won two scoring titles.

LeBron James was in position to win a scoring title. Do you fault him for not going for it? Or do you believe he should have gone for it? No. No. For what? No. LeBron has so much, so many accomplishments on his resume.

He doesn't need to chase that. That's beneath him, really. And, you know, his team missing the playoffs. What am I playing for? I don't need to play for a scoring title. Not at all. Are you surprised? LeBron doesn't play for that.

Right. And had he, because he says, well, I don't play for stats. I don't chase stats. I try to play the game the right way. Well, that would have been the wrong way because to try to win the scoring title means you have to try to get a lot of shots and you're probably not going to pass. You can become what you're not,

which is he's a pass first guy that can score. And then he's like, you know what? I'm going to score first now. I'll pass later. Yeah, no, you know what? I really, this year, I really love watching LeBron play. Now, I'm a fan of LeBron's. He's a phenomenal player,

but it was just something about his game this year to where I looked like, I said, damn, man, if what I'm seeing how to do in some of the moves that he was making this year, if he had developed that early in his career, man, look at here. Look at here, bro. I mean, he was already scary, but damn, to add some more into his bag,

because it's crazy that this man is – his bag has gotten deeper in year 19. That's what's so amazing. I don't think people give enough credit. He's in year 19 with all those miles, all those minutes and miles on those legs. And he gave you 30 in year 19 at 37 when he gave you 30 at 21, the youngest and the oldest. How impressive is that? I salute you.

We all should be appreciative of watching Duke play, man. We're all going to miss him. You know, I played against MJ, but I was sad when he left. But, man, I'm going to be sad when Bron goes because I just love watching Duke play. He's so fun to watch, you know, whether it's scoring, it's passing, just how he creates an environment

around his team that it just looks fun to be a part of. This year, it wasn't like that. What happened this year? What happened with the Lakers? Why didn't it work? Because you got old players, bro. You went out and got these old guys that if they would have made it to the playoffs,

I think they would have been a problem. Right. Because that's what they were built for. But you can't go and get these older guys and think, you know, they're going to play 30-something minutes for 82 game seats and think they're going to hold up defensively is where they struggle. Because they can't guard nobody. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast,

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It's one thing if you got defensive guys that used to play defense. And it's hard, because Trevor Reza doesn't sit in the chair anymore. Avery Bradley can have spurts, but he can't do it. But when you get 37-year-old Carmelo

and you get these guys that they've never played defense, and now you're asking them to do something they've never played defense and now you're asking them to do something they've never done and they're older. Yeah, you put guys in a situation

that they had to garnish a lot of minutes and be consistent at doing something that they really wasn't good at when they primed. Now that they're older, you ask these guys to do, that's not going to work. If you could have given Russ some advice,

what advice would you have given him? Because it seemed like he was very confrontational with the media. They ask him a question. He's like, well, what did you see? Well, tell me what I should have done. You know what I'm saying? It seemed like I just felt that he didn't accept responsibility, accountability for some of the things that were going on.

I'm not saying he's the sole blame of why the Lakers underperformed. But he didn't look. Maybe he did. Maybe that's Russ. Maybe we have a magnifying glass on him because he's playing with the Lakers underperformed, but he didn't look, maybe he did. Maybe that's Russ. Maybe we have a magnifying glass on him because he's playing with the Lakers. Maybe because there's more expectations where there's no expectations in OKC, Houston and Washington. Well, I think with Russ,

I think a lot of what happened to him this year in terms of like the negative publicity and the negative write-ups about him, I think he contributed to that. Yes. And I think when he was going through his bad spells of playing, I think he should have just kept his head down and you know, just really, just say the right thing. Just

really talk about, you know, put onus on itself. I'm not playing well right now. I'm in the gym working, you know, working on my shot. I'm talking to LeBron, trying to figure this thing out. I'm working hard every

day to try to get out of this. I want to come up out of this. I mean, you're playing for the Lakers. Yes, you're on the biggest platform every single night and you're playing with LeBron on top of that. So everything is magnified. But I think when you're on the defensive side and then you try to, then you say that you don't have any expectations when you're playing for the Lakers. Now he's opened up a whole can of something that you don't want. And I think he just should have been, you know, saying that he was working on his game to get better,

to come out of the funk, talking to LeBron, and doing whatever he could to get back on track. If he was to take that role, I think a lot of that negative press would have been suppressed. Yeah, you can't say you don't have expectations when you play with the Lakers. When you look at the lineage that they got

from Mikan to Will to Kareem to Magic, Worthy, Shaq, Kobe, Baylor, bruh, they got 17 titles. That's all Lakers should know to Will, to Kareem, to Magic, Worthy, Shaq, Kobe, Baylor, Ruff. They got 17 titles. That's all Lakeland should know is expectations is titles. Yeah, but I, you know, listen, man, I think a lot of that stuff on Russ was unfair as well.

You know, we talking about a dude that averaged a triple-double for three straight years. Like, this dude is a future Hall of Famer. Like, he didn't have a good year, but he's been in the league, what, 15 years or something like that? Like, come on, man, we can't do him like that. T-Mac, you played.

You know you got to update your resume. That's what you got to do in sports now. Now, what you did two years ago, how is that triple-double helping the Lakers right now? Listen, I get that. I didn't think it was a match for that team anyway when they made the trade.

I didn't think it was a good match. I don't know what they were thinking. I just felt like Russ has to have his own team. He has to have the ball in his hands. Thank you. You watch. He could to have the ball in his hands. Yes, thank you. But it needs – you watch. He could go to a team like Orlando where they have no expectations

and the eyes are not going to be on him on a nightly basis and he'll average a triple-double. Yeah, average a triple-double and he'll take that team to the playoffs. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. But when you – because when you look, you're like, hold on. Man, Russ had 10 assists.

Man, he had nine turnovers. Look, man, Russ, you inefficient, bro. You shooting 30. You got to stop shooting threes, Russ. You shooting 28%. But you got to understand, Russ is a strong-willed, strong-minded type dude that he wants to prove. When people are saying stuff about him,

I sense that he's a guy that wants to show everybody and prove everybody wrong. And he just keeps forcing the issue. And it never really turned for him. LeBron said of the current players he would like to play with most is Steph Curry.

T-Mac, when he was playing, who would be the one player you would want to play with most is Steph Curry. T-Mac, when he was playing, who would be the one player you would want to play with? That's a trick question. Jack. No, that's not Jack. Really? Jack.

I mean, who else? Well, you're right. You know what? I thought, who else? Well, you're right. You know what? I thought you might say, man, you know what? It would have been nice to play with Cole. Man, Shaq, bro. That is the number one choice always. Yes, it would have been nice to play with Cole.

Come on, man. Shaq was so dominant, bro. So, yeah, you know what? I never got a chance to see Shaq play in person. Explain to our viewers and listeners at home, when Shaq got the ball on the block, what was it like? Hey, good luck, y'all. Hey, hold your ground man look Shaq and I forgot who said this somebody said I think KG said this Shaq was raised right because

Shaq could have punished and he did punish people but I'm talking about even on a whole nother level to where I think Shaq could have averaged 35-40 points a game like that's how dominant I think Shaq could have been if he was like really nasty and you know just if he wanted to

do that I don't he didn't have to because of you know what he has surrounded him but he was, this dude was strong. He had big hands, strong hands. I remember, I learned my lesson

playing against Shaq. Because when we, when we played against him, obviously we had to double team him. So I was one of the guys that would go down and try to double team when he has the ball and we'll go and double team on the bounce. Right.

So I went one time and tried to double team Shaq, but he was in a shooting motion coming up and I tried to knock down the ball out of his hand. And bro, I about broke my wrist. I said, never again will I ever try to do that. You know how guys, when they had a ball like at their wayside

and you try to knock it down? I tried that, man. I about broke my wrist trying to do that. That dude about took me up out of here and he still scored. And won. He was just such a boy. Mac, people don't realize

how big and how agile people are. People are all like, man, look at Joel Embiid. But you got to realize Shaq was probably 20 pounds heavier than Joel, and I believe he was more athletic. Shaq can literally run really, really fast. Shaq can really, really run. Not just

for a basketball player, but for a football player. Shaq could really, really run. Not just like for a basketball player, but for a football player. Shaq size, 7'1", 330, 335, and can move like he could? Shannon, and he could do a backflip back in his day. Come on, man.

7'1", 330, and can do a backflip? Man. You know, eventually, you mentioned it, LeBron's gonna be gone. KD's gonna leave. Steph's gonna move away. Who's gonna be the face of the NBA in the next 10 years?

I'm gonna give you Ja, Luka, Trae Young, LaMelo Ball. I think it'll be between LaMelo Ball and Ja. If LaMelo Ball can get to La La Land, because I think he's built for that. Yes. He has that personality, that moxie.

He's built for that. I think he has that personality, that moxie. Like, he's built for that. I think he can be that face. But John Morant, if he continues to do what he's doing right now in Memphis, he also can be that face. Man, I need you to explain to me how Luka does what he does. You talk about Joker can't jump over a dollar bill. Luka can't jump over a dime. Well, I'm going to tell you,

it's all skill, bro. That's what a lot of guys lack. See, these kids nowadays rely on athleticism. They can run fast. They can jump high. They can blow by somebody and just explode over them. But if you blow out your knee and you're not as quick,

you're not as fast, you're not as explosive, what are you falling back on? Luka is not going to have that problem. He's so skilled. He's a big body. He knows how to use his body. He got the ball on the string. He's a smart basketball player. He's

a great facilitator and he can shoot. You can't speed somebody up that plays at their own pace right right and that's why he's so great he plays at his own pace he's gonna get to his spot and do what he wants to do who you like in the nba finals who you like the teams west uh western conference eastern conference and who you got winning. So beginning of the season, I had Golden State winning it all. But I don't know about Seth and his injury.

So my decision has shifted. I'm going with a rematch of last year's NBA Finals. And I think the Milwaukee Bucks are going to win it again. Talk about why is it that Giannis, you don't feel Giannis gets the credit that he deserves? Because when I tell, I say when Shaq was being as dominant as he was, nobody said Shaq can't shoot the three, Shaq can't shoot the mid-range. They said Shaq is dominant.

Giannis is as dominant. But they're like, oh, man, he ain't no MB, he ain't no KD Yeah, but you gotta Understand, Shaq These guys, it's like Cause And I don't know if you talked about this on your show Like somebody asked me, I think I was on Shaq's

Podcast and they was talking about, can Giannis Play into, back in You know, our era where the defense was really tight and the paint was closed up. And I say he would struggle because

if you look at when he had some of those playoff series against Toronto where they were just clawing the paint on him and he couldn't get downhill on the scene. That's what I was referring to. I'm not talking about... Giannis now can play at any era

because he's developed his shot. He's confident now, right? So he's not... It was like, well, Shaq? Because I was like, he can't really... He's not a consistent shooter. And I was like, you go back in our era, guys that were stars and superstars were consistent shooters, the KGs.

And it was like, well, Shaq and Tim Duncan. I was like, but those guys play with their back to the basket. That's not Giannis' game. Giannis comes downhill. Correct. So if back then, if you're not surrounded by all those shooters and it's upon you to score the ball, who are you passing to? Because we didn't have that type of spread off that they have today's game.

You didn't have Steph and Clay on the same team that could space the forward. So he would have struggled, right? But in today's game, it's tailor-made for him because he's surrounded by shooters all on the court. So the paint is open for him to come downhill. Now he's developed the back-to-the-back basket. I see him do the turnaround now. Now he's shooting the three ball a little bit more.

So he's – I don't know why he's not getting that attention. Maybe it's because he's in the small market like Milwaukee. But he's a force. He's a force. How many points would T-Mac average in today's game? With the floor space like it is right now? Well, I average 32 in a sub-defensive era. So I'm going to go ahead and probably put about eight more points on there.

You believe you can get 40 a night? Man, look, I think one year I probably could have averaged 40 in today's game because I only shot six threes a game, Shay. Right. I only shot five or six threes a game. That number probably would have doubled. Oh, yeah, you'd have been a team. In today's game.

And I wasn't going to settle just threes. I was a guy that got to the free throw line as well. Right. So I probably put another, you know, six to eight points on there. And the thing is different about today's game. They let a guy get hot and they won't even get the ball out of his hand. They'll just let him keep cooking. Man, back in the day, you're not going to keep cooking meat.

They're going to get that ball out of your hand. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, when a guy's hot, man, it ain't nothing you can do. I'm shooting over double scenes. Come on. I'm waiting on you. I think it was Memphis. Might have been Memphis or OKC when Book had two 50-point

games. He had 48. They started doubling him in the backcourt. They're like, no, you're going to give it up. We're not going to let you get 350 in a row. That's the way to do it. If you're going to double somebody that's like, nah, you're going to give it up. We're not going to let you get 350 in a row. That's the way to do it. If you're going to double somebody that's hot, yeah, you better double it in the backcourt because you do it in the frontcourt.

I'm in my shoe range. You're too late. How good would the magic would have been had you stayed with Dwight? Could you have challenged for a title? Could you have possibly won a title, you and Dwight? Yeah. Yeah, because I mean Dwight played for a title could you have possibly won a title you and dwight yeah yeah because i mean the white played for a title yes so absolutely yeah i don't think people realize

how good orlando white was the white power was a force to be reckoned with athleticism athleticism off the charts i mean you're talking about having an impact on the game as a guy, somebody that averaged 30 points. He has that type of impact on the defensive end. Right. Like, that's who he was. Controlling the offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, blocking shots, running like a gazelle.

I mean, he was phenomenal, man, for those eight years in Orlando. Do you feel you snubbed on the top 75? I do, yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, I didn't go in my closet and cry and wanted to, you know, call out the people. No. I'm a Hall of Famer, see?

Right. You can't get no – I mean, hey, that's a very select company. Yes. Very select. You were in San Antonio your last, I think that was your last year. You were so close to that title. T-Mac, you had it. You were 20 seconds away.

As you're sitting on the bench, you're like, okay, we got this. We got this one. Just make a couple of free throws. They got to foul us. We're going to be good. As you're sitting on the bench, what's going through your mind? Shay, let me ask you a question. Yes.

You played your career in Denver. Yep. Right? And you retired from Denver. Yeah. You enjoying life offseason. Somebody calls you up. Hey, man, we got we got a tight end. He's hurt. And you come in and give us a body. Sure. Why not? Right. It might be a coach that you have the utmost respect for.

Right. Right. But when you come back, that tight end is healthy. You ain't really getting no burn. Right. Y'all make a run for the Super Bowl. Right. You don't really play like that. Right. Y'all win the Super Bowl.

Do you feel like he was a part of that? Nah. We competitive, bro. Yeah. We competitive. Come on. You're right. You're right.

We competitive, bro. That's what Matt Barnes said. Matt Barnes said he felt like that when he was with the Warriors. Like, yeah, we won the ring, but I ain't do nothing. If you can't contribute to the battles, I don't feel a part of that. It was a great experience because I've never been that deep in the playoffs. And to go through that run with them, oh, man, it was amazing. I love every bit of it.

But in terms of if we would have won the ring, it wouldn't have felt the same. I wouldn't have felt validated as a champion. Right. Obviously, you leave Toronto, you get a max deal as a sixth man. I don't know how many max players got a max deal as a sixth. How the hell you pull it at all? Hey, let's just say that was a good representation.

So, obviously, you're making the rounds. What are some of the players, some of the big-name players? Obviously, you go to Orlando, and then you end up at Houston. So what are some of the pitches that they're telling you, okay, T-Mac, you come here. This is what's going to happen. This is how it's going to be. So Pat Riley sends the proper plane for me in Orlando.

Flies me to Miami. I meet up with Zoe. And Zoe takes me out back. We hop on some jet skis. I'm like, bro, where are we going? We get on jet skis and ride the jet skis. I'm like, bro, where are we going? We get on jet skis and ride the jet skis to Pat Riley's house.

I'm at Pat Riley's house chilling. He do his old thing, set the rings out and all that. Hell of a pitch. I went on that visit. Enjoy every bit of that. Go to Chicago. I step foot off the plane, walk through the terminal. When I first step through the terminal, I see Benny, the bull.

Right. And I see the cheerleaders like they got a whole parade for me in the airport. I'm like, oh, Lord. Get to the hotel, sitting in my room, they pop in a tape, Oprah send me a personal message. I'm like, oh, boy. Oprah's talking to me. I go to the freaking Cubs game,

thinking, take me out to the ball game. I'm in the dugout with Ernie Banks. I throw out the first pitch, sitting in the stands. They got an airplane flying over with advertisers talking about me. I'm like, oh my lord. They rolled out the red carpet

for me. With all that, they were competing against Orlando, which is home. From a kid, that was my dream to put on that magic uniform. Right.

That's the reason why I left Toronto. That's why I didn't sign with the Bulls. That's why I didn't sign with Miami Heat. Yeah, I mean, you enjoyed it.

You enjoyed the cell pictures, but you were just like, oh, man, I do the private jet. I do the jet skis, but I ain't going. I ain't coming here. I'm going to Orlando.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm going to soak it up. I remember all this. I'm creating memories, but I'm going to Orlando. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm going to soak it up. I remember all this. I'm creating memories, but I'm going to Orlando. Who was your toughest guard and who do you feel

guarded you the best? Of course, it was Kobe. I mean, I think he was one of the toughest guys but that's obvious. I'll give you some of the toughest guys but that's obvious I'll give you some of the guys that you probably wouldn't think of there's two guys that

was tough to guard offensively that was Coutinho Mobley and that was Jamal Mashburn like them two dudes was a problem to guard well number one Coutinho, because he was they call him cat for a reason.

Right. Right. They call him cat for a reason. And he can shoot the ball. Just tough, wiry, strong, left-handed type player. Mads Burns, 6'8", know how to use his body. Don't have the athleticism, but can shoot. Couldn't really block his shot

like that. And just know how to use his body, man. And he had a bat. So he was one of the toughest. And somebody to guard me, Artest was pretty tough. I loved the challenge with him. And I can't get nobody else

that credit. You got the record. You scored 13 points in 33 seconds. What's going through your mind? Okay, the first shot goes in. The first two points go in. Do you think, you know what? We got a chance.

Because it's never been done before. So did you think that you guys realistically had a chance to win this game? I thought we had a chance to win the game. Based off of what I've done before of coming close to doing something like that, yes. I felt like we had

a chance. 13 points in 33 seconds? I felt like we had a chance. I did. I'm going to get you out of here on this one the 2000 super team the 2000 you got alan iverson colby mcgrady duncan shack versus steph kairi lebron kd and yannis who went in that they're too small. They're too small. They're too small. Man, Tim Duncan and Shaq are going to have a field day.

They're too small. I want to know who guards. I guess we could put Giannis on Shaq. KD, you got Tim Duncan. Yeah, they're too small. Who's Steph going to guard? I don't know.

Who's Kyrie going to guard? They're too small. Who's Steph going to guard? I don't know. Who's Kyrie going to guard? Kyrie. They're too small, Jay. You and Kobe and AI, ain't nobody guarding nobody. They're too small, Jay. They're too small. Looking back at your career, is there anything you wish you could have done differently

or your career would have played out differently? What are one thing or two things you would change if you could? Nothing. Nothing. It happened the way it's supposed to happen. Right? Right. I went through it.

I did everything that I possibly can do every time I suited up. And the results is what they were. Right. So it is what it is. To me, I had it is what it is. I, to me, I had a, a unbelievable career. Right.

And my post, my post career is going to be even better. So I wouldn't change anything. Are you upset that you didn't win a championship? Do you believe the perception of Tracy McGrady would change? Had you won a championship? Not, not the one in San Antonio.

If you had been a contributing factor, like in Orlando or like in Houston, do you believe the perception of Tracy McGrady, the player, would have changed? I think people's – I don't know. I think people would call me a champion. Right. I think that would be embedded in people's mind. But, but,

Shay, I get a lot of love out here, bro. I'm respected wherever I go. The guys in the league know. Players know players. And they, you know, I already know they give you the love because you don't score 32 by being a slouch. Right, right.

No, you don't. And what's crazy is when you hear, oh, he didn't have a work ethic. Like, so you meant to tell me somebody that doesn't work can accomplish all the things that I accomplished in my career? That's what you're saying? You're saying this league is that easy that I don't have to work that hard to accomplish that? Nah. You might get away with something like that in high school. Right.

Because you're probably the most talented player on the court. But when you get to the NFL or you get to the MLB or you get to the NBA, where everybody is equally as talented, nah, there's got to be something to set you apart. is equally as talented. Nah, there's got to be something to set you apart. And you've got to set yourself apart by how you're mental and you're physical and how you prepare yourself every night. It's hard to score 32 points every night for 82 games. You kidding me?

Well, I want to congratulate you on the OBL. Best of luck with that in this inaugural season. And, bro, I appreciate you giving me a little bit of your time today. Hey, thank you, Shea.

Appreciate you, brother. Best of luck, man. All my life Been grinding all my life Sacrifice Hustle paid the price Want a slice Got to roll the dice

That's why All my life I've been grinding all my life All my life Been grinding all my life I'll see you next time. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolfe. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends.

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