Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore - INFAMOUS: D.B. Cooper

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

After D.B. Cooper disappeared, he became a legend—but the clues he left behind still baffle experts. In this episode, Morgan and Kaelyn dive into the infamous 1971 skyjacking, the hijacker's intense demands (like $200,000 in $20 bills), the Boeing 727’s rear stairway, and the cold precision of a criminal who never once lost his cool. Clues is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t Miss out on all things Clues! YouTube: @CluesPod | @crimehousestudios Instagram: @cluespodcast | @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia Clues is hosted by Morgan Absher & Kaelyn Moore  Instagram: @morgsyabsher | @itskaelynmoore TikTok: @twohottakes | @heartstartspounding To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Dr. Khrini-Bot, host of Hidden History. Every Monday, I go where history gets uncomfortable, banished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, and events that science still can't fully explain. Listen to and follow Hidden History, available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is Crime House. I have a bomb in my briefcase.

I want you to sit next to me. Asking for four parachutes. Pretty strategic for our guy, Dan, here. It is kind of giving insider info. It's giving he was very man with a plan, I picked this plane for this reason, or he was a pilot himself. One of the slickest cats to ever walk the face of the earth. Hello, welcome to clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape and explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases. And these aren't just ordinary cases.

They're complex puzzles where forensic science, investigative techniques, and sheer grit collide in order to uncover the truth and deliver justice. I'm Kayla Moore and I'll be piecing together the timelines and bringing the history to break down the hard facts of these cases. And I'm your internet sleuth, Oregon Absure. I'll be diving into the theories and pulling out the threads that just don't add up. Each week on clues, we'll explore how the smallest pieces of evidence, like a microscopic fiber, partial fingerprint, or even a single strand of hair, could lead to groundbreaking discoveries and may even bring long-awaited justice. These clues shine a light on stories. These clues shine a light on stories. that have been waiting, sometimes for decades, to finally be heard. So join us as we uncover

the breakthroughs, the heartbreak, and the relentless pursuit of answers behind these unforgettable investigations. And here at Crimehouse, we value your support. So please share your thoughts on social media. Please do it. We read all of them. And remember to rate, review, and follow clues to help others discover the show. And for bonus episodes, early access, and ad-free listening, join our Crimehouse Plus community on Apple Podcasts. In 1971, a man in a suit boarded a flight, handed the stewardess a note, and by the end of the night, he vanished with $200,000 in cash. No body, no parachute?

Absolutely no trace. Today, we're talking about D.B. Cooper, America's most stylish thief and its biggest unsolved mystery. Was he a criminal mastermind? Or was he just incredibly lucky? We'll break down the clues that have baffled the FBI for over 50 years right after a quick break. Hey, before we jump back into the show, let's take a quick break. But not just any break. This is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic real facts, so let's take a minute to go over some of my favorites. Snapple Real Fact, 964, it is illegal in the United Kingdom to handle salmon

in suspicious circumstances. Snapple Real Fact 1013, it is illegal to sing off key in North Carolina. Snapple Real Fact 2033, Americans consume 150 million hot dogs on July 4th. Snapple Real Fact 705. Every ton of recycled paper saves about 17 trees. So grab a Snapple, take a second, and enjoy the moment. Because let's be honest, this might be the most refreshing part of your day. Snapple. Make your break more interesting.

All right, now let's get back to Clues. This episode is brought to you by Quince. So lately, I feel like I've wanted to be more intentional about the stuff that I've been wearing every day. I want to lean into pieces that feel effortless and comfortable, but still look put together. That's the key. It just makes getting dressed simpler. And quince is a go-to for all of those things. The fabrics feel elevated.

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Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com slash clues for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too, that's QI-N-C-E.com slash clues for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash clues. Kind of hard to read with these bad boys on, but before we get into today's episode, anything new? What's going on in your world? Have you watched bad influence on Netflix yet? No. This is good. It's hard to say it's good.

It's very interesting. It's like the number one documentary on Netflix right now. It's essentially a hype house for children that was operating in L.A. And it was run by this. Oh, my God. Woman Tiffany, she has this daughter Piper who is like a social media star. But yeah, so Tiffany was like managing all these other child influencers. The documentary interviews a lot of those kids.

Yeah. It's really dark. It's just really dark. Oh, no. amount of work they had to do. She was putting them in uncomfortable situations. And like the whole thing is really shining a light on like how there's no rules surrounding child influencers. But it's an interesting watch if you have time. There's a lot of conspiracy theory cases about some of these influencer cult houses, essentially, like the dance one. Like her family, there's a dancer and her family has come forward and been like, she won't talk to us. They married her off.

She's dancing and TikTok famous, but she won't talk to us. Yeah. There's a couple of interesting stories out there. I mean, it's kind of right for cults, right? Because there's so much money to be made. There's usually someone at the top telling everyone what to do. and then it just yeah there's so much bad behavior that happens but this one especially I mean everyone involved was like 11 years old at the time so it's really heartbreaking it's really interesting though

I'll add it to my list add it to your list it's fast it's like three episodes they're like 45 minutes a piece Netflix does a good documentary they do yeah that tell you that yeah I just read a book for the first time I read the new hunger games book oh would you think first time in ages that I've read I know how to read that sounded weird eyes, but I do know how to read. Morgan did learn how to read it. But it was really good, really good. It's set up Hamich's backstory in a really cool way. So that was really nice.

Are they going to do a movie off that one too? They're already like casting. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'll have to check that out. I haven't read The Hunger Games in like 10 years.

I don't think I've read it since high school, but I walked by a little, you know, bookstore and I'm like, okay, I need a book for my flight. Do you finish it on the flight? I finished it on the flight. I finished it with it. 24 hours. Nice. Yeah. But should we get into today's case? Let's do it. So we are opening up the case file for the infamous DB Cooper. And just a quick reminder, there's going to be some pictures for those watching on YouTube. It'll help visualize all the elements of this case. But if you're listening, you are not going to be left out. The same photos are on our social media at Clues Podcast on Instagram. So a little bit of background about this case. First, it took place in 1971. So this was at the start of the air travel boom. And very pre-9-11. There was no airport security. You could walk up to a gate, kiss your loved one goodbye, full access, basically. I sort of remember that a little bit.

I do too. The tail end of like walking my dad do his plane and fly. Yep. People didn't even have to buy their plane tickets ahead of time. Imagine that. You could just literally walk into the airport, pay with cash, board a plane. No identification. Wow. I know. Truly different era. And also one thing that was interesting reading about this era was there was actually a lot of like airplane hijackings at the time so many a shocking amount the CIA was getting about one report every single month from 1968 to 1972 it said that 137 planes were hijacked in the u.s alone today that's so unheard of but back in the day they had a whole protocol on what to do if your plane got hijacked it's so crazy to think about because that's not a modern day fear like my biggest fear for line is turbulence and

Oh no, I'm afraid of like absolutely everything when flying, so it is something I think about when I'm in a plane. Which this story, we're going to get real deep in my airplane fears. I have really big airplane fears. Really big airplane fears. I also, when I fall asleep on planes, I have nightmares on the plane that the plane is going to go down. Me too. I wake up with the plane crashing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's horrible. My just flew last weekend. Wing snapped straight down. Wow. Not a good dream. It's brutal. Let's talk about this hijacking and not as much about my nightmares. So on Wednesday, November 24th in 1971, which is the day before Thanksgiving, and even back then, it was one of the busiest travel days of the year.

At around 2.25 p.m., a man approached the counter of Northwest Orient Airlines at the Portland International Airport. When he filled out the ticket voucher, he signed in the name Dan Cooper in block letters. Why block letters? Can't get a handwriting sample off it. He appeared to be in his mid-40s. He was wearing a business. suit with a white shirt and a skinny black clip-on tie from J.C. Penny's, which was said to be fastened in place with an imitation pearl tie pin. The suit was dark burgundy brown, and he had on a pair of dark loafers. He also had an overcoat on and carried a bag that was described as looking like a briefcase of sorts. He was said to have an olive complexion and fancy Marcel waves in his hair.

I read a quote that said, other than the fact he was wearing horn-rimmed sunglasses aboard the flight, there was nothing remarkable about this man. So I'm guessing no one was able to gather what color his eyes were. Interesting. So when Cooper went to purchase his ticket, he actually asked the ticket seller if the plane was a Boeing 727. And the seller said, yes, it is. But for some reason, the seller didn't really think too much about it. He didn't think that was like a weird question to ask.

Yeah. I mean, I'm asking myself nowadays, is that a certain type of plane? And I'm honestly picking my flights based on it. Absolutely. I have the filters on. well. Look at you. Yeah. I don't mess around when it comes to flying. So Cooper paid $20 cash for a one-way ticket on flight 305, which was only supposed to be about 40 minutes long. I don't know if you've ever made that flight. It's super fast. It's quick. Around 3 p.m. He boarded the flight and he took

his aisle seat near the back of the plane. And there in total were five crew members aboard this flight. There was the pilot, Captain William Scott. There was the co-pilot Robert Radazac. There was the senior flight attendant, Alice Hancock, and two flight attendants, Tina Mucklow and Florence Schaffner. When he sat down, Cooper ordered a bourbon and soda, and then he started chain smoking cigarettes. Tell me this case took place in the 70s without telling me it took place in the 70s. Different times. Smoking on airplanes? Smoking a lot on airplanes. So at around 305, the plane took off. And a few minutes later, once they get into the air, Cooper hands a note to the flight attendant. 23-year-old Florence Schaffner.

She took it, but at first she didn't read it. She actually kind of like folds it up and puts it in her pocket. Cooper ends up turning around to her and saying that she should read the note. And she unfolds it and it says, Miss, I have a bomb in my briefcase. I want you to sit next to me. And for a little bit of context to help that make a little more sense, flight attendants were like very sexualized at the time.

Even TV ads for airlines openly objectified them. So I'm sure Florence was used to being hit on all the time. It probably wasn't even the first note that a man slipped her that day. Yeah. I just went to the TWA hotel that's at JFK now. It used to be like an old terminal. Oh, yeah. And you can actually see all these uniforms and like learn the history of like being a stewardess and all this stuff. Wow. And they had age caps on flight attendants. Like up until the late 60s, early 70s, the age cap was like 35. They wanted them young and high. And. And hot. And then I think it was like 71 when they finally started letting men be flight attendants. Before that, it was just women. Just women. Yeah. So they would do weight checks and appearance check-ins and like they really wanted that. And like height was a thing. Yeah. You had to be unmarried. There was a lot that wanted to. I'm married. They wanted them attractive and almost setting them up for being pestered. Yes, exactly. So Cooper turns around, tells her to read the note she does. And then she goes over and she sits by him and he opens his briefcase for her.

And Florence, in that briefcase, she sees that there's a ton of wires and there's this big battery with a bunch of dynamite sticks wrapped around it. And Cooper told her that all he had to do was attach a wire to a little gadget that was fixed to the battery and everyone on the plane would be dead. And he demanded that she write down what he told her. He said he wanted four parachutes, $200,000 and $20 bills, Quote, I want $200,000 by 5 p.m. in cash, put it in an out sack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want the fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff or I'll do the job. End quote. So with really no other option, Florence wrote all that down. And then Cooper told her to give that note to the pilot. He wanted the items delivered upon landing at Seattle Tacoma International Airport, CETAC. And he wanted everything gathered a ahead of time so that he was not going to have to wait on the tarmac at CTAC. And I do have to say, asking for four parachutes, pretty strategic for our guy, Dan, here. Because if you'd ask for just one, they could have given him a dummy parachute.

He could have instantly plummeted to his death. Right. But by asking for multiple parachutes, it kind of made people think he was going to take hostages. And obviously, they weren't going to let innocent people get caught in the crosshairs here. So they made sure they were giving him the real deal. Absolutely. And so Florence goes and she takes that note to the pilot. And when she comes back, Cooper asks her to give him the note back, which is important to remember.

And of course, she does exactly what he says. So this would have been a clue. But nope, gone. Exactly. He was being very mindful of the trace he was leading behind on this plane. And so while all of this was going on, Cooper actually has another flight attendant, Tina Mucklow, come and sit next to him. And according to Tina, Cooper. Cooper noted that they were flying over what looked like Tacoma at the time.

And this is kind of a mini clue here because that detail did have investigators speculating that Cooper was familiar with the area. Yeah, absolutely. And while all this was going on, he seemed really composed. He was just smoking cigarettes and keep into himself for the most part. And so Tina asked Cooper if he had a grudge against Northwest Orient. She's trying to figure out why he's doing this. What's the motive here? And Cooper said, quote, I don't have a grudge against your airline miss. I just have a grudge, end quote.

And unfortunately, Tina was very scared at the time, but that was a very cool thing to say. I mean, it's very a blazzy cool guy. Yeah. Suave, as some might say. Exactly. While he's doing all this, he's keeping one hand inside of the briefcase at all time. So Tina was lighting his cigarettes for him as he was smoking. But as she was doing that, Cooper's making sure to take all the matchbooks.

so that there's nothing left behind. Again, taking back so much potential evidence, which to have that foresight in the 70s, like DNA wasn't a thing yet. Like, he was pretty good. Absolutely. And at this point, the authorities get alerted. The pilots had called CETAC to tell them what was going on.

And CETAC immediately called the FBI to relay the message. They were basically saying, like, hey, can you bring us $200,000 in cash and four parachutes? And it kind of seems like at the time the FBI was essentially like, No, but they get everything that they need to get. So around 335, the pilot comes on the intercom in the flight, and he told the 36 passengers that they were having mechanical issues and they needed to burn off some fuel.

And he stated that everyone should come up towards the front of the plane, which I want to make a note here is a huge fear of mine on flights. Every time we circle, you know how sometimes you have to circle before you land? Have you ever had to do the take back off? Yeah. Nope. I'm always, I always think back to this case and I'm like, they know something we don't know. Like the pilot got a message that something is wrong. The

plane is going to burn up and they're just not telling us. Because that's what they were doing to these people on this flight. Yeah. And oddly, they didn't have an issue with it. They were totally fine. No fear. Clearly not scared flyers like us. And it seems like since the pilot and the flight attendants were doing such a good job kind of maintaining this, no one was freaking out. They didn't think much of it even. Yeah. Which like good on them. Because in actuality, all the people at C-Tac were scrambling to get this money together and the parachutes. So basically, Flight 305 was just circling as a way to buy time so they could get everything that they needed. Yeah, there's a quote from one of our sources for this episode, an article called How the Hunt for D.B. Cooper worked by Josh Clark.

Quote, Flight 305 was the only plane in the sky above Seattle. All other flights had been diverted. A little later in the article, he goes on to say, quote, the downtown branch of a local bank, C-First, was tapped to provide the actual currency. on NWO's behalf. They kept money pre-assembled in stacks of varying amounts to make it look like the money had been hastily gathered. In reality, each bill's

serial number had been recorded and stored on microfilm. Banks do this in case of armed robberies, but in this case, it worked just as well for a skyjacking. Really smart on their end. Really smart. One of this week's partners is Peloton.

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And you can feel good about Grooons because their ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. So if you're ready to try Grooens for yourself, save up to 52% off with code clues at Grooens.co. That's code Clues at g-r-un-s dot CO. So while Cooper demanded four parachutes, it wasn't necessarily an easy task for them to gather all of them, but the manager of C-TAC Airport knew someone who actually agreed to give them four shoots. But amidst the chaos of everything that was going on, they accidentally handed over a dummy reserve shoot. So this is the kind that's used during training. The main canopy of it is sewn shut. So these shoots are always marked with a big X because you have to know that this is not the right shoot. You cannot mix these

parachutes up. So how they ended up getting one of those on the plane is still kind of beyond me. But the plane ended up circling for three and a half hours while they were scrambling to get the shoots, get the money, get everything before it finally landed. Three and a half hours is such a long time. This was only supposed to be a 30-minute flight. A 30-minute flight. A 30-minute flight. Are the people on the plane panicking?

Because I would be in full panic at that point. I would be terrified. I was a flight attendant. I literally used to be a flight attendant. Scared at turbulence. I don't know how the heck I did it. Explain that, you guys. But, like, it's scary when you, like, circle or burn fuel or go back up.

Like the scariest thing, actually, I was always the least superior on the roster. So I was the one that had to go in the cockpit when the other pilot came out to pee because you always have to have two people up there. And the other pilot turns around and he's just talking to me and the plane's flying itself and we're bumping around. But another thought here, me and my flight tent experience, they're so lucky they had enough fuel to even circle for this long. Yeah, that's a good point, actually. Because usually on those small flights, right, you don't fully fuel up. No, weight and balance is such a big thing. I think nowadays they're very precise where they really take on only what they need.

So when the plane finally landed, there were snipers in position watching this plane land. But Cooper seemed to know or at least sense that this was happening because he immediately told the flight attendants that they needed to shut all the windows. And before any passengers were allowed to deplane, Cooper instructed Tina to retrieve the money and the parachutes for him. And while Tina could have technically kept herself safe at that point, she decides to get back on the plane. Once she returned, the passengers of Flight 305 were released along with two of the flight attendants, Alice and Florence. Yeah, I don't think we can say enough how great of a job this cabin crew and everyone did because you guys, you wouldn't want me in this experience. I'll tell you that much. One of the passengers actually had no idea what was going on.

they went back on board to get an item they had forgotten even. So, like, again, it speaks to how good this crew really was in this. That is so funny. Like, oh, sorry. Like, you see the snipers in position. You're like, wait, I have to grab my, my, my, I love my phone or whatever you had back then. Yeah, I know. Phones.

They couldn't even imagine those. Wait, can I grab my cell phone, actually? Forgot my sleep mask in the seat pocket. I mean, there were hundreds of news people there even. And it was actually them getting off and seeing all those people. there. That's when they actually realized that their plane had been hijacked. Right. And I know your mom is a flight attendant, so you're kind of familiar with the world as well. But I mean, you know how high stress the job can be. So for them to be so composed, they did such a good job. No, my mom actually

works inside of the airport because it's less stressful than being a flight attendant. Oh my God, I thought she was a flight attendant. She deals with all the people. Like she would have sold D.B. Cooper the ticket. Oh. And she also would have been like, oh, you're asking about what the plane is, like, I don't care I want to go home. Like, I'm not going to make a mental note of this. The second you leave, I'm forgetting. Straight over your head. You deal with so many people every day. And like, most people are in a bad mood at the airport. I worked inside of an airport and like just the people are horrible. So you're not really making mental notes of everyone you come into contact with. And it's only getting worse, at least according to my mom. I know. Getting a little

more wild. But I do like the fact that you brought up about Cooper asking about which type of plane he was on. And this does matter. You know, for the right person, this could have rang alarm bells. It didn't for whoever, you know, gave him his ticket. But because he was on a Boeing 727, this is how this whole heist was kind of possible. This aircraft had a unique feature, an aft air stare, which is essentially a retractable staircase. And it's located in the rear of the plane. Cooper really, really cared about this aft air stair. Yeah, because as the ground crew is refueling the plane and getting ready to take off again, Cooper mentioned that he wanted to depart with the apt staircase down. So, like, part of the plane fully open. And the pilot kind of tells him, like, no, that's not possible. We can't do that. But Cooper was pretty adamant about this. So the pilot ends up reaching out to Boeing anyways. And he learns from the engineers that, while, yes, he was right, you can't take off with the staircase lowered. it can be lowered during flight. And so by all accounts, Cooper wasn't really happy with that solution, but he finally was like, that's fine and we can do it that way. Let's go, guys. So Cooper and the pilot talk about where they're going to fly next.

And Cooper says that he wants to go to Mexico City. It looks like this is over 2,300 miles away, and it would take around 5.5 hours to get there. And that's really typical in today's air travel. like we take five-hour flights all the time. Yeah, easy. The airplane's tank wasn't big enough to get there. They just circled for three and a half hours.

That was essentially as far as they could go. So crazy. They were going to have to refuel along the way if they're going to make it all the way to Mexico City. So the crew, they basically had a huddle up and they come up with a game plan and they're like, okay, we have to make a few stops. So the first one's going to be in Reno, Nevada, and we can refuel there. And Cooper, as this is happening, looks into the bag that they gave him full of cash. By all accounts, he's pretty happy with what he sees.

So the pilot takes off again. They're heading to Reno. Cooper gets on the cabin phone once they're up in the air, and he starts giving really strict instructions to the pilot. First, he says he wants the plane to fly at 10,000 feet. Really low. The cabin's not pressurized at 10,000 feet. He said he also wants the wing flaps to be at 15 degrees and no more than 200 knots, which is about 190 miles per hour.

or 300 kilometers per hour, which also, again, not even fast enough to take off. When you take off, you're going faster than that. So crazy. Yeah. And the risk of stalling in the air and having this not work out. And I know we're using a lot of airplane lingo here flaps. You're like, what the hell of flaps? Well, your dad's a pilot, right?

My dad's a pilot. And I think the average person now kind of has looked out the window as you're landing and you see those little things off the wings that go up or down or move as you're flying. Yeah. Those are flaps. And a typical wing flap angle these days is between 5 and 15 degrees for takeoff and between 25 and 40 degrees for landing. Landings where you typically see them, though. They'll really change the angle to help slow the plane down.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they don't have to use the brakes as much. But back then, this wasn't necessarily a given. So the fact that Cooper understood all of this and knew that it was even an option on this Boeing 727, it is kind of giving insider info. It's giving he was very man with a plan. I picked this plane for this reason. Yeah, either he had a lot of knowledge.

He had done a lot of research or he was a pilot himself because to know the exact angles that the wings have to be or he was familiar with hijacking planes. But he had a lot of information on what to do. It's definitely giving an inside job, especially given this fact, right? Pilots talking to Boeing. they can't take off with the aft door down, which, okay, drag.

This isn't a little plane carrying a banner. That makes sense. Yeah. But Cooper knew that it could be deployed in flight, and he knew that the pilots would not be able to do anything about it. See, at this time, there was no child lock or control in the cockpit that would prevent that aft staircase from deploying. So in flight, you could go to the back and just control it from back there,

and the flight crew up in front would have no way of stopping them. So anyone could really go back there and deploy the stairs mid-flight. If you knew how to do it. Wow. Interesting. And so for what it's worth, the pilot didn't think that the plane could go as slow as Cooper was asking. Again, you go faster than that to take off. So Cooper ends up telling him, yes, it can't. I know you don't think this plane can go that slow, but I promise you it can do what I'm asking.

And so the pilot, I guess, trusted him and decided to go as slow as they could. I mean, good pilot. Hopefully he would have felt a stall coming on. But I don't know if you've seen videos, but it's kind of giving the same energy as Sky King. No, what's that? RIP, if you know, you know. Sky King is a guy who hijacked a plane in modern times and was doing barrel rolls and loops. Oh, my gosh.

He wasn't a trained pilot? Right. And so. Wasn't that also up in Oregon? I think so. Yeah. I think so. Hygacked a whole plane.

A whole plane. Like a big modern plane. So, I mean, it's, again, giving inside job. He was a ground crew. That's how he got access to that plane. Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. But back on track here.

Even though Cooper was happy with the money, there were a few issues, okay? Kaelan, earlier you mentioned that part of Cooper's request was that the cash be delivered in a knapsack. But it was actually delivered in a canvas bag. And basically, that meant that he would need to make a handle for this big. which he did using a knife, which he had on board with him the whole time, apparently. Yeah, you could just bring knives on planes, but then. Smoke. And he used lines from one of the parachute, which you're going to waste a good parachute, sir?

Yeah, so he, like took apart one of the parachutes and was using the line. So just, like, destroyed one of the parachutes. Ripping it to shreds. Which in his mind, he's like, oh, I have four parachutes, but really you have three because one of them is a dummy. I know. So this kind of also hints at the idea that he never planned on making someone else jump with him. So, Morgan, like you mentioned earlier, this was really just him being super strategic about every single thing that he did this day. And according to some sources, Cooper and Tina go to the back of the plane and into the space where the stairs were lowered.

And according to some other sources, Cooper and Tina went up to the cockpit before this. But regardless, at 7.42 p.m., a light comes on in the cockpit. and that alerts the pilot that the staircase door was opened. The crew called the phone in the rear of the plane. Cooper answered and they asked whether he needs any help. And he just says, no, no, hangs up. Crazy. 8.12, which is 30 minutes later, the crew feels the plane move.

Cooper jumped. What was he doing back there for so long? Scoping it out? Probably scoping it out. Probably seeing exactly where he wanted to land. But also, mind you, he was telling them to go to Reno. So they don't think he's going to jump that early, but he must have known this whole time

that he was going to jump somewhere in between where they were in Reno. So wild. And based on the plane's coordinates and when they felt this jump, they did have a rough idea of where Cooper's drop zone was going to be. They figured it was over this area called the Dark Divide, which this area makes up 75,000 acres in western Washington.

It's massive. The conversion, if we're going to put it in miles, is like 117 square miles. Huge. And there's no roads. Like people are allowed to go in there, but not a lot do because there's no roads and it's not super well maintained. It's giving like remote wilderness. So the fact that he was comfortable jumping into this random spot seems crazy to me.

But it also feels like it would have been strategic, right? No one is down there who can see someone jumping from a plane. Also true. there's some dark coverage. But one thing that's really interesting about the parachutes that he chose, he picked one that wasn't as nice as options that he had. He actually cut up the nicest parachute. Interesting.

I know. On top of that, it was also raining pretty heavily this night. And with the plane going about 250 miles per hour, which is slow for a jet, it's still pretty fast when you're jumping out of a plane. Yeah. So with the sky being cloudy and only a quarter moon in the sky, there wasn't a lot of light or anything to really go off of. And Cooper's wearing a suit and an overcoat with loafers. Definitely not what you'd want to be wearing in the middle of a wilderness or jumping from 10,000 feet.

It's cold. Your hands are going to be freezing. So to even pull that rip cord, burr. But despite all of this and these crazy conditions, He jumps and is somehow fine with it. And it's worth mentioning here that even though he did not go back with them, the crew does land safely and no one in this entire ordeal was hurt. But the FBI is there on the tarmac waiting for them. And once they land, they get to work.

They're like, we have to figure out who this man was. We cannot let someone like this get away. And so they start gathering clues. Finally, some clues in this case. So FBI get on the plane, and this is where they find our first real clue. Cooper's tie, which for some reason he unclips and tosses behind him into the plane before he's jumping. But even though this is a clue, it's not really a good one. The tie was from JCPenney's.

It was pretty mass produced, you know, in some capacity. And though there could have been some DNA on it, This was also, again, the early 1970s, and DNA testing wasn't even developed until the 80s. And they do find this little tie pin too, which is what actually secured his tie to his shirt. But not much else comes out of this clue. But the FBI keeps it. Yeah, just in case in the future they can do something with it. Next up we have parachutes, which he left two on the plane.

Yeah, and for all of the research that he did on the airplane and the flight paths, he clearly didn't do all of the research. on the parachutes because he used one of the best parachutes like you said to make the bag handle and he left the other one on the plane. So basically he takes a military parachute that they gave him and the dummy shoot, which again had a giant X on it because the parachute inside was literally stone shut. How does he grab literally the dummy shoot out of all of them? Come on, guy. And the military parachute. He picked a shoot that you just go where the wind takes you. You just go where the wind takes you. There's no steering with that bad boy.

No, you can't control it as well. So, yeah, he picks the worst shoots. And speaking of the parachutes, the FBI knew that there was a high probability that he was going to jump out of the plane. So they had fighter jets watching the plane as it was flying. But remember, Cooper had instructed the pilots to go no more than like 230 miles an hour. So the jets were going too fast. There was a helicopter following at one point, but that also had to go too fast. The plane was going way too slow. So by the time Cooper was getting ready to jump, there was nothing following the plane watching him.

No, and it's also pretty dark. Did they even have night vision back then? That's a good question. I'm like how, I mean, this little ant fallen from a plane basically. Right. I don't think they're going to see him. Regardless. So of course, they go to the area that they think he jumped in

and they start searching immediately. But there is no sign of him. Not even his parachute. Nothing. Which is interesting to me because let's say he landed safely, packed up his shoot and then ran. Packing up a parachute is pretty hard to do, especially if you don't have familiarity with them and haven't been taught. According to one person I saw on Reddit, it actually can take like 40 minutes to properly pack a shoot, tears up your fingers, leaves you in a sweaty mess. So if he did pack up this parachute and then take off into the night, he's got to be pretty skilled or again, I leave him.

trained. I mean, we'll get into our theories later, but I think there's a chance that he just left the shoot and ran. And maybe they didn't find it. But I mean, again, 117 square miles. Yeah. One little parachute somewhere. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Instacart. I have a four-month-old at home, which means I don't leave the house unless I absolutely have to. Going to the grocery store is a really big deal for me these days, which is why I love Instacart so much. grocery shopping. I always forget things. I get overwhelmed. I have decision paralysis or I shop hungry and then I get way too much. Which is why I love to use Instacart. Keep me out of the store. I'm going to sit at home reading my book instead. And Summer is all about saying yes to last minute plans, a friend's backyard barbecue and prompt to picnic or just deciding to cook instead of ordering in. With Instacart, you don't have to choose between being spontaneous or being prepared. Order what you need in the morning and get a delivery in as fast as 30 minutes so you can keep your plans without adding a grocery. run into the mix. And if you know you're going to be short on time the next day, you can order what you need in the morning and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes so you can keep whatever

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It's dark, intense, and might just keep you up all night. I'm Hannah. I'm Saruti. And every week on Red Handed, we break down a different, fascinating case. From the most recent U.S. trials, everyone is obsessing over, like Brendan Banfield, Karen Reid and Ellen Greenberg. To the most unbelievable stories from around the world, there's nothing we love more than digging into every detail of the cases we cover,

getting beyond a basic analysis and cutting to the heart of the story. Red Handed has over 400 episodes ready to binge right now. Plus, be sure to check out our weekly sister show, Shorthand, where we unpack everything, from the Black Death to Area 51. If you're looking for smart, detailed true crime with personality, check out Red Handed wherever you get your podcasts. Man hunt on the ground gets started and it is massive. There was said to be over a thousand police officers and military troops combing through the

dark divide looking for him. And reportedly, a local millionaire suspected that Cooper had actually dropped into Lake Merwin. So this guy rented a small submarine and tried to search, mostly because he was looking for the ransom money. I don't think he really cared about finding Cooper. But they were also able to identify where they thought Cooper landed. And it was a spot near the Lewis River, which. is around aerial Washington.

Okay. There's no real leads on the ground. The area is just way too vast. And like we said earlier, there's no roads. It's not well maintained. It is really hard to search this area. But fortunately, there are a few more clues that were left on the plane. And these are smaller clues, but I still think they're worth mentioning.

As you mentioned earlier, Kaelin, he was chain-smoking up a storm. And our third clue is his Raleigh cigarette butts. He smoked at least eight during the duration of the flight, but somehow no fingerprints were discovered on these cigarette butts. Not a single print. That is almost unbelievable to me. Because he wasn't wearing gloves. No.

Did he burn his fingerprints off before? I mean. But then why was he so careful about the matchbacks? Yeah. I mean, that's a good point. There was also at least one strand of hair left on the back of his seat's headrest. Some sources say there were multiple left behind them. But of course, no DNA testing at the time.

So even if they did have the hair, how are they going to tell? Yeah. And this is one of those, again, maybe clues because some sources say there were prints on the bourbon glass or his in-flight magazine. But others say that those weren't prints of Cooper. I saw in one source, the FBI didn't even really catalog these glasses that well. They were mixed up. So they were unsure if the glass was definitively Coopers or not. Right, right.

And there's one more clue that I think is kind of missed in this case. There's no handwriting sample. As you mentioned earlier, he asked for that note from the flight attendant back. And again, he used block letters on his ticket voucher for his flight. So we got nothing. Yeah, there's really only his name. He wrote Dan Cooper and then all the other handwriting samples are gone. So another thing that surprised me to learn was that the pilot and co-pilot never spoke to Cooper directly.

not even once. They didn't even have any helpful details to describe Cooper. They were in the front of the plane while all this was happening. Kind of, you know, the flight attendants were mitigating the conversation. Yeah. And because the flight attendants kept everyone so calm and didn't lead them on into what was actually happening on the plane, it doesn't seem like there was a ton of attention on Cooper. I don't even think any of the people on the plane thought to turn around and look in the back to see what was going on. So they maybe assumed he was just any other passenger. or they just didn't get a good look at him because really none of the people on the plane had any more information for the authorities. No. And like think about when you travel. Like you'll look at kind of who's nearest you, but the rest of the people on a plane, you're just. No idea. No idea. They're unremarkable to your memory. Yeah, absolutely. Like do you ever try to go down and find, like if you check a bag and you're looking at all the like where they have the bags come out and you're like, I could not tell you what flight I was on. Like none of these people look familiar to me at all. It looks familiar. No, it's like one of those things where it's like, okay, you drive to a grocery store and you're on the way and you see a white dog and blah, blah, blah, blah. What color was the man's hat? You're like, I was thinking about the white dog. I wasn't looking at his hat. Yeah, you're just not really paying attention. Everyone just wants to get to their destination. Exactly. So the day after the hijacking was Thursday, November 25th, 1971, Thanksgiving Day. And there's immediately so much media coverage. I mean, think about it. Everyone's at home with their family. Like, it's a perfect. time for just like talking about this case, chatting about it over Thanksgiving dinner. And again, no one was hurt. So the cultural conversation that starts happening about D.B. Cooper is largely positive. Most people are very impressed that this guy was able to pull off something this wild. And one of the guys that was interviewed on the news said that Cooper was, quote, one of the slickest

cats to ever walk the face of the earth. What a compliment. People just like talk better back then. What's like the equivalent now? Our modern day. The fan was sick as hell. Something like that. God, no, that does not have the same ring to it. People wrote songs about him. They sold t-shirts with his face on it.

And this was all in tribute to the first man to get away with hijacking a U.S. plane. Basically, people felt like he stuck it to the man, which, I mean, we just came out of the 60s into the 70s. Like, people were all about that. People did not trust the man. I mean, we still see it now today. You definitely see it today. Absolutely. And again, this guy had the name of Dan Cooper when he bought his ticket.

But at some point, there was a reporter who maybe misheard law enforcement during a press conference. And the reporter called him D.B. Cooper instead of Dan Cooper. And unfortunately, for everyone that just made him seem even cooler because that was a way better name. So the public really latched on to that. And overall, even though everyone's talking about this case going home for, Thanksgiving and talking to their parents about it, not a lot is happening. We have those clues that we found, but there's not much beyond that. And at some point, the FBI starts wondering if Cooper actually died during the jump. But again, there's not really any proof of that

happening either. They haven't collected a body. But really, he's not turning up anywhere. And one agent in particular, this guy named Ralph Himmelsbach, he releases a book about the case in 1986. And in it, Ralph, who was a pilot himself, he was actually in a helicopter that was trying to track Cooper, but he says that he believed D.B. Cooper, quote, probably hadn't even gotten his shoot open and plunged to his death, winding up buried by the impact on the forest floor and the Cascade Mountains. Pretty pessimistic. Take there. I know. So really doesn't think he survived. And one more thing to note here, actually, is that Ralph eventually retired in the early 1980. and after that he finally got the chance to meet with Captain William Scott, who was the pilot of Flight 305.

And after they meet, Ralph starts to believe that Cooper's landing zone actually wasn't where they initially searched, but actually 40 miles east of the area they were searching, which is significant. That's a huge difference. That's a huge radius. But despite a massive manhunt, there's really no more movement in this case and no known potential suspects. But a few months later, would you believe another skyjacker struck? And the MO sounded a lot like D.B. Cooper. So according to the FBI's website, on April 7, 1972, United Airlines Flight 855, a Boeing 727, sound familiar, was traveling from Los Angeles, California to Newark, New Jersey, with 85 passengers and a crew of six people.

The flight had a layover in Denver and then took off just before 5 p.m. About 20 minutes later, at 5.18 p.m., quote, a male passenger was observed in his seat holding a hand grenade. And this guy had boarded the plane using the name James Johnson. An off-duty pilot who happened to be on the plane checked out the situation. He was trying to not be suspicious, but it didn't work because the guy pulled a pistol on him and then handed him a sealed envelope with the words hijack instructions on it. And in that letter, the guy demanded $500,000 in cash and four parachutes.

And he also ensured that all of the written notes were handed back to him. Sounds oddly familiar. There's a lot of similarities in this case. Yeah. I mean, there could have been copycats, but it is very, very similar. So the crew decided to land in Grand Junction, Colorado, and the pilot told everyone on board that the aircraft was experiencing a, quote, minor mechanical problem. Again, why I don't trust anything that happens in the air. They are lying to us. That way the passengers wouldn't be worried about the abrupt landing.

And this is another situation where everything happened really quickly, and the airline crew did a good job thinking on their feet. Again, the passengers weren't panicking. Yeah, no, seriously, it's amazing that they can do that. But even though the pilot wanted to land in Grand Junction, once they opened the envelope, there were really specific directions written inside. And it told them that they needed to land in San Francisco and park on runway 19 left. And then there was a bunch of additional directions and procedures. But since the passengers were already informed that, hey, we're going to be landing shortly,

the crew had to come back on the intercom and basically tell them that Grand Junction couldn't handle the necessary repairs and that they needed to go to San Francisco airport. Which, okay, you're trying to get to Denver and then New York. You're going to stop in Grand Junction, Colorado. But then all of a sudden, you're going back to California and going to San Francisco instead of L.A. How are they not panicking? I know. I would have been looking out the window, counting all of the turns.

I mean, like, where are we heading? What is happening? The flight ends up landing in San Francisco. And as requested, four parachutes and two bags of cash were delivered to the airplane. The gas tanks were refilled. and about three hours later, after the requests were satisfied, the hijacker released all of the passengers and one of the flight attendants. But then the plane takes off again,

and this guy summons a flight attendant and hands her more instructions. Basically, head east, get to 16,000 feet, and fly exactly 200 miles per hour. Some messages were passed back between the pilot and the hijacker via the flight attendant. And while they're over Utah, the hijacker jumped off the aft stairs of the plane. And five hours after the hijacking began, the crew was able to land safely in Salt Lake City, Utah. So again, no one got hurt. And ultimately, the difference between the D.B. Cooper case and this one is we actually know who did this hijacking. And he was identified as Richard Floyd McCoy.

Insane. They were able to get him. And you know how? From one source I saw investigators were actually led to Richard McCoy after he was overheard bragging in a box. that he could do it better than D.B. Cooper. And, well, I mean, he kind of did. He ended up getting more money. But let's talk a little bit about Richard Floyd McCoy. According to one source, quote, McCoy was a green beret in Vietnam,

experienced with skydiving, bore some resemblance to Dan Cooper, and, not least of all, pulled off a virtually identical heist. McCoy was found five days after his heist and was sent to prison. However, he escaped by making a fake gun, out of plaster and rode out of the prison on a garbage truck. He was killed shortly after in a shootout with police.

However, he's considered likelier a copycat since he was 29 while Cooper was in his 40s. And because his family said he was at home with them in Utah for Thanksgiving in 1971. It's unfortunate that these guys are so cool. Broke out of jail in a garbage truck. Like, that's just... Come on. I know. The movie writes itself.

Literally. Like, how insane is that? And also, I mean, he got home for Thanksgiving in Utah. We have planes, clearly. He could have still gotten there in time, yeah? Yeah, absolutely. No, absolutely. So I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know. And there's some more clues in the McCoy hijacking case. But we're not 100% sure if this guy is D.B. Cooper. So we're not going to get into all of them today. But essentially, McCoy did get caught. But long story short, he hitchhiked right after this incident and he was wearing a jumpsuit and carrying a duffel bag. Not suspicious at all. Of course.

It was actually reported that McCoy was on National Guard duty in the search for this hijacker. So he was essentially just chasing himself. Wow. But yeah, he was arrested two days after the hijacking and the FBI found a jumpsuit, a duffel bag filled with $499,000. $970. What do you think he spent that $30 on? Only $30 was missing at that point. I would have gone on a big shopping spree the next day. But I would have spent way more money than that, right? Yeah. Seems like a meal. Maybe a strong drink after that jump. He just got a yeah, strong drink. I mean, $30 will get you far in the early 70s. So he actually maybe could have bought a lot with that 30 bucks. Yeah. We did get some fingerprints from McCoy, but they don't match the ones left on the bourbon glass in the DB Cooper Hydro. jacking. But as we know, FBI didn't really catalog everything too well, a little bit of our botch for this case. And so they're not sure whose Prince DBs actually were even. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with

hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day. and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope? It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. This episode is brought to you by Prime.

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Watch only on Prime. So through the years, there were a few more suspects, but no real progress in the case. In 1978, hunters in Oregon found an instruction manual showing how to lower the aft staircase on a Boeing 727-100, but this was on the flight path for Flight 305, and it didn't generate any new leads. Yeah, it makes sense it could have caught in the wind and fallen out as he was jumping. But luckily, in the 1980s, we do get a little bit of a lead. An eight-year-old named Brian Ingram was on a camping trip with his family, and while trying to make a fire pit along the Columbia River,

he finds three stacks of rotting $20 bills. And when I say stacks, I mean stacks. It totaled $5,880 actually. Wow, that's a good fine for an eight-year-old. I know. I'm not stoked. I know. Would you have admitted you found that money?

I know. I thought about that, too. No, it wasn't in the best condition. And so his family contacted the police and then the FBI. And when his father read one of the serial numbers to the FBI over the phone, it turned out to be a part of the ransom money given to D.B. Cooper. Remember how the bank had those little serial numbers all recorded? They were thinking ahead.

They sure were. And I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole here on this one. After years of analysis, investigators like really haven't conclusively been able to determine how the money got there. Yeah, I had read something somewhere that it maybe fell into a different part of the river and then was like dragged through the current down to this part. But it probably wasn't found in the spot that it actually landed in. Yeah. Some people speculate that the river was dredged. So essentially you like drag soil, sudden. from the middle up on the shoreline to make it deeper. Oh, yeah. But then other sources say, well, the dredging actually didn't occur close to where the money was found. It stopped 150 feet short of that.

So the only way it could have gotten there was DB burying it. Oh, interesting. Yeah. But then why bury your money, DB? Keep it under your mattress like a normal person. And only that amount of it. Like, why are you keeping it? I know.

Yeah. Which some Reddit slu speculate he did just to throw off investigators. And maybe there's more out there. Put him in another tailspin. So in the mid-1990s, another guy landed on the FBI's radar for the DB Cooper case. But again, it doesn't amount to anything. And ultimately, there's no real movement for 28 years. But then in 2008, a few miles southeast of the aerial search zone around Amboy, Washington,

some kids noticed fabric sticking out of the ground on their family's farmland. And it turned out to be a military parachute. They alerted their dad who immediately called the cops. It looked like the parachute had been buried for a while. And again, the FBI got involved. But they showed the parachute to the guy who owned the skydiving center, the one who had given the four parachutes that were used during D.B. Cooper's hijacking. And that guy confirmed that it was not the same parachute. The one that he gave was made of nylon, but the one that the kids found was made of silk.

And it turned out that the parachute they found was actually way older from a jet that was did. ditched in December of 1945. So, while that is a pretty cool find, it was a total dead end. And don't worry, guys, the pilot of that ditch jet did survive. But what's interesting is the weather during that ditch was similar weather conditions to what DB encountered. So it could point to the fact that Cooper did survive. Oh, that's interesting.

So in 2011, a different guy was outed by his. his family as a possible suspect because he showed up to Thanksgiving in 1971, bloodied and bruise. But again, as far as I could tell in the research, it didn't seem like this guy would have had the skills to pull off the heist and nothing came of that tip. Yeah, they were actually getting a lot of people outed by their families. There's another suspect in this case that I saw come up, which is Kenneth Christensen. He was a former paratrooper and, get this, a former Northwest Orient Airlines flight attendant. Wow.

An employee. So he was a prominent suspect in this. And because of his paratrooping experience and working for the airline and potentially a deathbed confession to his brother, he was considered in this. There was actually a point before he was a flight attendant that he was actually a mechanic for the airline. So it would be someone that would have that inside information on the planes, how they work, and that aft staircase.

But he was eventually ruled out. That's interesting you say that because there were a few other deathbed confessions that come forward in this time. Why so many? That is something that I'm really trying to figure out. I actually covered it in an episode of Hurstarts Pounding because we do deathbed confessions episodes. But one of the guys was this man, Walter Recca, and he had told his friend that he was

D.B. Cooper. And he was not familiar with planes, but he was really familiar with parachutes because he was a big time skydiver. And so he told his friend about being D.B. Cooper essentially on his deathbed. And then his friend went and made a documentary about it. But there was just a lot that didn't add up. Like Walter really didn't look anything like the composite sketch. He was like a little bit older than D.B. Cooper would have been. And he basically confessed that he had no idea what he was doing that day. But he just knew how to use the parachutes. But he just knew how to use the parachutes. And then there was this guy, Dwayne, who's the opposite. It feels like he was the opposite. It feels like he knew exactly what he was doing that day. But he just didn't know how to use the parachutes. Parachutes weren't a strong point. Yeah. And then there was this guy, Dwayne, who one night woke up in the middle of the night having a nightmare and told his wife, he had a nightmare about leaving fingerprints near the aft stairs of an airplane before he jumped out. Ooh, I got the chills.

Wife was like, okay, that's weird because think about how meticulous D.B. Cooper was and collecting the evidence and making sure no one could figure out it was him. And so he would have these nightmares about leaving fingerprints on the plane like near the stairs. And so his wife was always like, I feel like you might be D.B. Cooper. And so he also confessed on his deathbed. But again, nothing really came of that. It didn't seem like he was a perfect match. There was a picture of Kenneth that was actually shown to one of the flight attendants.

And they did say he was the closest resemblance. Okay. So there's that. I trust it. But again, FBI, you know, they ruled them out. But they did still have the tie in their possession. So they started looking into that a bit more with the modern technology we have. According to a recent article from earlier this year, March 2025,

amateur sluice have sued the government for access to the DNA and particles left on the tie, to no avail. There's other sources that say back in 2017, the FBI did actually cooperate with some of these sluice and amateur scientists, gave them the tie, they sent to a lab, and it found traces of metals, which made them think that Cooper possibly could have worked as an engineer at a plant that's applied metal to the aerospace industry. But the majority of the particles found on the tie had elemental compositions that were actually linked back to book matches. And we know that DB liked a cigarette. I mean, he smoked at least eight of them on this plane. And while most metals would have been seen as too common or just a contaminant maybe, there were titanium particles found.

And because they weren't alloyed, which is basically combined with other metals and materials, it narrowed down where these particles could have come from. So it seems like they're at least gleaming a bit of new information with modern technology. Yeah. And the FBI still stresses that they don't actually know if that was Cooper's tie. Because remember, at least one person did go back on the plane to grab something after they were let off. So people were frantic and forgetting things. Someone else could have forgotten the tie. But it is interesting that the FBI with basically every single piece of evidence is just like, well, we don't know who that is.

Like the glasses, we don't know who was drinking out the glasses. We kind of didn't pay attention to that. The ties, we don't know whose ties they are. Just kind of, the evidence is kind of a mess. Yeah, I mean, the cigarette butts, I believe, are now thrown out. They don't have those anymore. Yeah, just like discarded. Yeah, not as tidy of keeping evidence.

No, not in this case. But let's talk about where we stand on this case today. What's the aftermath looking like? Well, in 2020, a pair of siblings come forward to claim that they found a parachute used in the hijacking. It was in their mom's shed. Their dad was actually D.B. Cooper. You want to know their father's name? Richard McCoy. The name should sound familiar because Richard was the guy who hijacked the other plane, the supposed copycat. Yeah. And his kids said that he identified himself as Dan Cooper when he boarded a Northwest Orient Airplanes

jetliner from Portland to Seattle in November 1971. I mean, he does seem like the most likely just in terms of he was totally capable of doing this. He had done it. So if the shoe fits walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck named Richard. So reportedly, this

finding caused the FBI to reinvestigate the case of D.B. Cooper. And according to this guy named Dan Greider, who has spent over 20 years investigating this case, quote, that rig is literally one in a billion. That's what he's talking about with the parachute that they found. That

this is one in a billion, it has to be the parachute that he used. He also confirmed that the FBI agents visited the McCoy's property, searching for clues, and that the McCoys willingly gave them the parachute. They were really cooperative. Grider goes on to release two videos in 2021 and 2022 on his YouTube channel, probable cause documenting the McCoy's claims. And in his latest video, he claims the FBI effectively reopened its investigation after contacting him in late This is all just according to him, by the way. This is not corroborated. Grider also claims that the FBI, which is in possession of the McCoy parachute, is now searching for, quote, a positive DNA connection between the McCoy's DNA and the Cooper DNA left aboard the aircraft. And again, FBI has not said that. It is just this man who makes YouTube videos. Well, unfortunately, if the FBI is trying to do that, they're going to have a. pretty hard time considering a lot of the evidence that could have DNA is gone.

And the people of Reddit are pretty mad about this. But I've also seen some people question if it's true. Like maybe the FBI is lying or maybe there's a chance the hair is just misplaced and it'll turn up. You know, those archives could be pretty vast and poorly cataloged. Totally. But I don't know. In January 2024, some sleuth did say that they found trace DNA samples on the that clip-on tie, but we'll have to see if that amounts to anything. I did find this really cool

sleuthing website with some good tack-on points and details during the research for this episode. The original hope in analyzing the tie was actually to see if there was any pollen on it. Yeah, pollen. It always comes back to the bees. They essentially thought that they could determine what part of the country the hijacker came from if this pollen type was so rare and specific to a certain B. Colony. Totally. I could see that. The money that the eight-year-old boy found had rubber bands on it. And so those were analyzed to help figure out how long the money had been there and maybe disprove some of the theories that it just floated there or, you know, things like that. There's also some really cool flight maps and a photo gallery. And one interesting thing I found, none of the money besides what

was found buried in the sand was ever found in circulation. So if D.B. did survive. The money never turned up again. And that means it never got scanned out of bank. So it never made it back to a bank. Yeah, I don't know how they determine if it's re in circulation or not. Yeah. So I guess in theory, he could have been just like spending it amongst people. But at some point, that would have had to go into a bank and they would have scanned it and figured out that it was part of D.B. Cooper's money. You would think, I mean, he was trying to get to Mexico. They accept U.S. dollars down there sometimes. So maybe he just spent it elsewhere.

That's true. That's true. So in March of 2025, just earlier this year, the FBI released a bunch of old and heavily redacted files detailing their investigation into hundreds of potential suspects in the D.B. Cooper case. The pages show that they looked into bank robbers, especially those with parachuting skills, as well as, non-criminal with parachuting skills. And of course, people with the last name, Cooper, but there were no major bomb shells in the documents. Okay. That is basically the whole overview of the case. So I have to ask you, what do you think happened? Who do you think did it? I don't know. I don't think it was McCoy. No. I think McCoy was a copycat for me.

I feel like McCoy seems like such a guy He would have admitted it And been like, I did a better job the second time, didn't I? Like, I feel like he would have been more that Versus overheard saying, I could do it better than DB did. Yeah, that is an interesting thing to say. Absolutely.

I don't know. What about you? There's kind of two wolves inside of me. There's the one that's like, maybe this, like the FBI did such a bad job is like at a cover up. Do they know who did it? They just don't want to say.

maybe it is McCoy and then part of me is also like he's dead like I think at this point he just hit the ground and died but how would they not find anything this is where I need our team of scientists to come in like yeah this is kind of a sad thought in this but like okay plane up there 10,000 feet person jumps they travel a certain speed they hit the ground would there be a big crater or would it just would he splat he would splat so I covered um case where the Yuliana Koppka case where... See, and that's the case you're covered. She floated down in the seat.

She survived a 10,000 foot fall out of an airplane. Without a parachute, guys. The other people... Listen to the episode. This is kind of graphic. The other people that didn't survive were... There wasn't a crater around them, but they were like three feet into the dirt. Like, they hit the dirt so hard that most of their body was like lodged into the dirt.

Okay. So you wouldn't, like... But think about it. Yeah. If you're searching, you're looking for, like, knee to foot above in the dirt. Yeah. So it becomes like a harder search. And you're in the wilderness.

There's animals. There's a lot of animals up there. There's humidity and heat and people decompose really fast in there. You think they would have found a shoot, though? The shoot, maybe. I guess if he hit hard enough, maybe the shoot got buried under the dirt with him. I guess if it didn't open. If it didn't open.

And that's what I'm thinking. Didn't open. Hands were too cold. He didn't dress appropriately. Couldn't get the rip cord. But to go through all that and to have. have like the acumen to pull off a heist like that and then to just bungle the parachute in the last moment doesn't feel like a D.B. Cooper move. So that's why I'm like, he's probably not,

he probably didn't die. I don't think he died. Yeah. The fact that McCoy made it out. Right. Yeah. I think there's a solid chance. DB made it out and rode into the sunset and took that money somewhere else that didn't get put back in circulation. Do you think anyone out there knows who it is and just isn't saying. No one can keep a secret. If that was your dad, do you think you would come forward later and say it was him once he passed away? 100%. So maybe he is still alive out there and his family's just like, okay, once you die, we'll come forward and tell everyone what happened.

Yeah, my dad, I honestly could see my dad being the type to pull this off, but he was born in 57. Age doesn't fit. Yeah. Interesting, though. I know. I'm trying to snitch on your dad. Jerry. What were you doing?

Yeah, what were you doing? Where were you? Thanksgiving Eve, 1971. Yeah, but I definitely want to hear everyone's theories on this. Drop it in the comments right now. I'm not kidding. I want to know what everyone thinks. I want to know what suspect do you think is the most likely. I want to know how you think it happened, what they're doing today, what their phone number is so we can talk to them. Let's go. I'll hop on a Zoom call. I'm ready. We need to get on a Zoom with D.B. Cooper. I mean, this is an important case. It is the case that is referred to as the only unsolved hijacking case in the history of commercial. aviation. Yes. And like we said, we want to know all your thoughts and theories. So please, wherever you're listening, leave us a comment. You can write your theory in a review as well.

YouTube, Spotify comments. Just, yeah, let us know. Yeah, five stars only, though, if you're doing it on the review. Yeah, please. But all right, Kaelin, it's time to close the case file on Mr. D.B. Cooper. All right, that's all for this episode of Clues. We hope you enjoyed unraveling this case with us, and we're going to open another case file next week. But in the meantime, we want to hear from you. Your thoughts, your theories, your feedback, that's everything that makes this community so special. At Crime House, we really value your support. Share your thoughts on social media again at Clues Podcast. And remember to rate, review, and follow Clues to help others discover the show.

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