Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore - INFAMOUS: Gabby Petito

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

Gabby Petito’s disappearance in 2021 wasn’t just a headline, it was a true crime case that stopped the nation in its tracks. Morgan and Kaelyn follow the trail of clues, from police bodycam encounters and social media activity to witness tips and the cross-country road trip that turned deadly. How did the search for one missing woman expose so much about love, danger, and the stories we tell online? Trigger Warning: this episode discusses domestic violence and intimate partner abuse. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or text “START” to 88788 for confidential support. Love Is Respect Quiz: https://www.loveisrespect.org Buckeye, Arizona Tip line: https://www.buckeyeaz.gov/residents/police/report-suspicious-activity Episode Sponsors:The best way to cook just got better. Go to https://HelloFresh.com/clues10fm now to Get 10 Free Meals + a Free Item for Life! Quit stalling and start saving when you make the switch. Shop plans at https://mintmobile.com/CLUES. Clues is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t Miss out on all things Clues! YouTube: @CluesPod | @crimehousestudios Instagram: @cluespodcast | @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia Clues is hosted by Morgan Absher & Kaelyn Moore  Instagram: @morgsyabsher | @itskaelynmoore TikTok: @twohottakes | @heartstartspounding To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Dr. Hrini-Bot, host of Hidden History. Every Monday, I go where history gets uncomfortable, banished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, and events that science still can't fully explain. Listen to and follow Hidden History, available now wherever you get your podcasts. Today, we are going to talk about one of the most high-profile cases in recent history, the case of Gabby Petito. She was a 22-year-old aspiring Van Life content creator who went missing the summer of 2021 while on a cross-country road trip with her fiance.

Gabby's disappearance exploded on social media, and hashtag Gabby Petito was shared nearly a billion times. An army of internet sleuths joined the search leading to the discovery of major evidence and some shocking theories about those involved. Hello, Cluminati. Welcome back to another episode of Clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape

to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases. I'm Keelan Moore, and I'm going to be digging deeper into the timelines, the backstories and the court files for these cases. And I'm your internet sleuth, Morgan Absher. I'm the one who's diving into the evidence, the Reddit forums, and pulling out the threads to figure out what is or isn't adding up. At Crime House, we value your support.

So please share your thoughts on social media. And remember to rate, review, and follow clues to help others discover the show. And for bonus episodes, early access and ad-free listening, join our Crimehouse Plus community on Apple Podcasts. More on the case and the clues that defined it after this quick break. Before we jump back into the show, let's take a quick break. But not just any break. This is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic, real facts, so let's take a minute to go over some of my favorites. Snapple Real Fact, 964, it is illegal in the United Kingdom to handle salmon in suspicious circumstances.

Snapple Real Fact 1013, it is illegal to sing off-key in North Carolina. Snapple Real Fact 2033, Americans consume 150 million hot dogs on July 4th. Snapple Real Fact 705. Every ton of recycled paper saves about 17 trees. So grab a Snapple, take a second, and enjoy the moment. Because let's be honest, this might be the most refreshing part of your day. Snapple. Make your break more interesting. All right, now let's get back to clues. I feel like this case is one of the first things we bonded over because one of the first weekends we started working together, the documentary came out on Netflix. That's right. And I, we were in New York and I binged the whole thing just in the hotel room while we were there.

I didn't go out. I just wanted to watch the documentary and see the way that they, it was the Netflix documentary that had come out. Do you remember following it that summer? I do. I remember seeing it pop up. And I don't, like, I remember, I think the first video I saw and it's one we kind of talk about was a girl who was like, hey, I think I picked him up. if you've seen this person. And then from there, I was like, wait, what? And I go down the rabbit hole of, you know, all these people making TikToks and how the internet kind of helps solve this case. This is an interesting one because of how much social media really plays into it.

It's crazy. People were even like finding Gabby in the background of their photos. I mean, it really highlights the power of the internet and like what it can do, what it can accomplish if everyone's connected, talking, sharing info. It's a really powerful, powerful story. and I'm ready to get into it. Yeah, let's just dive in. Let's do it. As a quick reminder for anyone who's watching this episode, you'll see a bunch of different photos that really help paint the picture of this case on YouTube. But if you're listening,

you can find the same photos on our social media at Clues Podcast on Instagram. And so when we were talking about how we wanted to tell the story today, I think we really want to just kind of go through the timeline how we all experienced it that summer. Kind of from the beginning mystery, trying to figure out what happened and go all the, way through in that way. So this case is really just a perfect example of everything you said about

social media. Let's start the story back in August of 2021. So 22 year old Gabby Petito is on the road with her 23 year old fiance named Brian Laundry. She's been posting nonstop about this cross-country van trip that they've been taking with the goal of really trying to boost her social media following. She keeps using the hashtag van life. That was like really popular. that summer. I think COVID people were just like spending a lot of time outside and she really wanted to be part of this van life community on social media. That month, she had around a thousand followers or so, but she was still posting consistently. She was making a ton of content. She was really, really into trying to grow this social media. And around late August, after posting these

photos that she had taken in front of a restaurant in Ogden, Utah, all of a sudden, the update stop. For someone who's been posting so frequently, it just completely goes dark. Gabby's friends don't hear from her. Her family doesn't hear anything from her. And when people eventually start talking about this on TikTok, the mystery of what happened to Gabby Petito starts really going viral. But I actually want to take it back even a little bit further than that. Let's just start by talking about who Gabby was.

Gabrielle Petito was born on March 19, 1999, and Blue Point Long Island, about 60 miles outside of New York City. Her parents, Nicole Schmidt and Joe Petito, ended up separating when she was really young. but they stayed pretty close. They were both obsessed with Gabby, and so they tried to co-parent as best as they could, given the circumstances.

And even after the divorce, they remained pretty close friends. It was kind of this big, modern, blended family. There ended up being six-step siblings and half-siblings, just all kind of combined together. And from the very beginning, Gabby was described as being this really vibrant, creative kid. There was one story we read about how in preschool she would spend hours making really detailed art projects, her parents remembered that she was just a really naturally

creative person and she would get entirely absorbed in her creativity, even from a very young age. Yeah, her art was beautiful. By high school, Gabby fully came into her own. She had this really magnetic personality that drew a lot of people to her. She hung out with what her friends called the quote, cooler older kids. It was this diverse group that included a quiet, artistic guy named Brian Laundry. But even with this strong group of friends, Gabby pretty much continued to move to the beat of her own drum. She was smart, but she always knew that taking the traditional path was not going to be for her of graduating, going to college, getting married, having kids, getting a house, like doing that whole thing.

She wasn't really interested in that, at least when she was in high school. After she graduated high school in 2017, Gabby decides that she's going to skip college and she's going to spend just a little bit more time trying to figure out exactly what she wants to do with her life. life, which I think is really smart. I think more kids honestly should do that. Just like take a beat to actually figure out what you want. Everyone needs a gap year. I love a gap year. She allegedly followed a boyfriend she had to a seaside town in North Carolina. She got a job there as a hostess at a local restaurant. But Gabby was too restless for that. She had a deep craving for adventure and for new experiences. And what she really wanted deep down was to be a travel blogger. She wanted to document all of the beautiful places. She was, traveling all the places she wanted to travel and she wanted to share that joy with others. She started talking constantly about wanting to explore the world and to show people that life had more to offer than just living in the seaside town with her boyfriend and working at a place. And then life threw her this kind of different surprise.

In early 2019 on a trip back home, she ends up reconnecting with one of her old high school friends, Brian Laundrie. And in that chance encounter, it feels like, at least in that moment, she found someone who shared that same sense of adventure, someone who would embrace that lifestyle with her. Now, Brian was a year and a half older than Gabby. He was born in November of 1997. And the more you read about the two of them together, the more you learn just how different he was from her in a lot of ways. Gabby, you can see in the videos that she made, just like the couple of YouTube videos that are still up, she has such a magnetic personality.

She's great on camera. She's very outgoing. She's funny. Has like a wide range of emotions that she just shares with everyone. She's so cute. You watch these videos and you can just tell. She's someone you want to be friends with. Yeah.

Watch her content. I mean, it was, she was so great. Yeah, exactly. And then Brian is pretty much the exact opposite. He's really quiet. He's really introverted. He comes off as self-conscious when you first meet him. He's kind of cold.

He keeps this barrier around him. not great on camera either. In the Netflix documentary, they actually show a couple of clips, like, after Gabby stops rolling and the camera's still on. And Brian kind of like enters the picture. You can see him in the YouTube videos. And he just kind of comes off as like curmudgeony, not really wanting to engage. He's very pouty.

He's very pouty. Yes, that's a good way to put it. And it was, it was so interesting when you watch, too, was almost like she'd be super engaged talking about making yogurt or doing something. Yeah. And then he would like almost sabotage some of the shots. he wasn't as into this vlogging as she was. And that's fine.

But like, let her have her fun. Don't poop in her Cheerios. Exactly. But at least on paper, he does come off as this artistic person. Yeah. He was described as loving reading, drawing, and playing guitar. After graduation, Brian also didn't want to go to college either. And at that time in your life, it can be hard finding someone who wants to go on that

specific life path with you. So he stayed in New York for a little while and his parents ended up really. locating to Florida around 2017. And while he was there, he was just kind of like trying to figure out what he wanted to do. He was working all these odd jobs. He ended up living out of his car for a little while. He was just crashing on friends' couches. He didn't really have that same kind of fire inside of him that Gabby had to go out and do something really extraordinary. And I have a note here that he was just like drifting through life without much direction. But then in March of 2019, when he was 21 years old, it seems like a lot changed. And his

life because he was driving through their hometown of Blue Point Long Island when he spotted Gabby at a local deli. And he, I mean, at that point he hadn't seen her in a while, he literally pulled his car over, got out of the car, and ran up to her. And later, which with everything we know about this case, it's kind of like disturbing, almost reading this, but he described it as love at first sight, which is normally a very cute thing to describe your partner as I fell in love at first sight. But with what we know about Brian, it was probably just like toxic love bombing.

He said that even though they had met before, it felt like it was the first time. And Gabby would go on to say the same thing about that interaction. After she saw Brian again, after all those years, it felt like destiny. It felt like the universe putting them together. And that next week, they ended up going on their very first date, which is where they went and got sushi. And very soon after this, Gabby hopped in her car and she drove down to Florida with Brian to go visit his parents. So then in October of 2019, the two had been dating. for around six months, and they decide that they're going to embark on this cross-country trip.

They drive south to Texas. They're just really roughing it, sleeping in Walmart parking lots in the back of Gabby's beat-up Nissan Centra. And they continue on to California, and they end their trip at the Santa Monica Pier. And as soon as they got home to New York, later that October, they had really caught the travel bug. They were ready for the next adventure. So Gabby agrees that she's going to pack up her life and she's going to move to Florida to live with Brian and his parents, Chris and Roberta Laundrie. They're going to come up so much in this story. Gabby got a job while she was living with them, just working as a pharmacy tech, while Brian

sold some of his art, digital watercolor pieces. In the spirit of them being very opposite, you did mention that Gabby's art was very good. I would say Brian's art is very bad. If anyone has seen it, they show it in the Netflix documentary. According to Gabby's mom, Nicole, Roberta really liked to knit little things for her and treated Gabby like a second daughter, pretty much. But as time went on, at least according to Gabby, she started feeling a little less welcome in the home. Text messages show that there was definitely growing tension between Gabby and

Roberta. Brian often felt like he was stuck in the middle of the two of them. Nicole thought that it was probably because Roberta was jealous of how much time Gabby was getting to spend with Brian. Yeah, she's a boy mom. There's a boy mom and then there's a mom who has sons. And she is a boy mom. We all know the TikTok videos that I'm talking about. Yeah. She's a boy mom. It's tough because it is just like such a specific type of parent who gets jealous that their child is spending more time with like a partner than with them. And he's 21 at this point. He's a full grown adult. Yeah. I mean, the videos you see of kind of all of them interacting, to me I found it so interesting. It felt it felt like I was watching a competition for attention between.

the mom and Gabby. And Gabby's just kind of like, she's not going to interject really. No, you're not on your turf at that point. You're trying to like also be a good roommate to everyone in the house. And now you have the mom who's, yeah, it's a really tough situation. And you're at an age where it's hard. Like you're going from respect your elders kind of mindset. And now you're, you know, you're 20, about to be 21 and like you're coming in your own. Like how do you set boundaries with your partner's parents? It's a tough transitional age. Well, we know. We know, we know that at this point their relationship gets pretty rocky, probably for all of those reasons. In July of 2020, Gabby and Brian, at that point they'd been together for a year and three months.

They were out camping in the woods, just the two of them by secluded lake, when all of a sudden, Brian gets down on one knee and he proposes to Gabby. Now, he didn't have a ring, but that definitely didn't matter to Gabby. In that moment, something described as being magical happened, and that's that a firefly landed. right on Gabby's finger as he was proposing without a ring. And she kind of saw that as a sign from the universe that there was some cosmic force that wanted them to be together. And even after they officially got engaged, it seems like the couple didn't really make

a big deal about it. They didn't throw a party, which like, that's fine. I didn't throw a party. Most people do their own thing for that. But what I found really strange about this is Gabby didn't even call her mom to tell her that she'd gotten engaged. Her mom found out from a Facebook post. And this was really hurtful for Gabby's parents.

I mean, Gabby had been texting her mom pretty consistently throughout living with Brian and his parents. And so to not even text her to say that you had gotten engaged was really hurtful for Gabby's mom. Yeah. Her father later told the press, quote, I'm an old school person. And as an old school person, the one thing you do is go up to the father of the person you want to marry and you ask for their hand in marriage. or parent ask for their hand in marriage. That didn't happen. We found out on Facebook.

All of us did. That's hard. That is really heartbreaking as a parent. It's really hurtful. And they seemed like they were such a close-knit family. And so it is very surprising, which kind of begs the question, like, why didn't she tell them? Well, there's a lot of different theories about this. I don't know that Gabby necessarily ever came out and said explicitly, but I know some people really theorized that she was,

nervous her parents would be upset. That she probably knew that, hey, I'd been telling my parents all these bad things about living with Brian and his parents. And now we're engaged. And I think they're going to tell me this is a bad idea. So I don't even want to tell them. Yeah. It's potentially why that happened.

Yeah, I could see it. Regardless, it didn't necessarily seem like Gabby was all that eager to plan a wedding anyways. After they get engaged, they don't really sit down and start wedding planning. They start trip planning. They have this other dream. They want to embark on this huge adventure. And Gabby actually comes up with an idea.

that pretty much changes the course of both of their lives. She wants to do a van trip. She says she wants to spend several months visiting dozens of national parks in a converted van, documenting everything in a video blog that they'll call nomadic static. I love her for this. I love that she came with a plan. She was like, we are going to get a van. We're going to go to all these parks and make content.

Like she was so determined. So driven. She just had this drive in her. And she even goes on to take a job, like an extra job at Taco Bell just so she can start affording this van. She's working 50 hours a week, part time of that at fast food. As someone who's worked fast food, that is a hard job to have. You have to put up with a lot there. So it just like proves how much she wanted to do this. And eventually they do get enough money to buy their new home on wheels. And it's a white Ford transit van. And this also becomes a project

that they do together. They spend months renovating it themselves. They put in a bed. They build out this little kitchen area. They have storage for all of their camera equipment that they're going to be bringing with them. And Gabby, listen, she knows exactly like the shot she wants in her head. So she goes out, she buys drone equipment. She buys multiple cameras. She is ready to document all of this journey and turn it into content that she can share with everyone. The dream that she had been wanting to do this entire time. Yeah. And to take on that initiative, like to not have training in that, like, I've tried flying drones. It's hard. It takes a lot of practice. And so to just like have this plan and be so driven and motivated and self-sufficient and independent at her age, I'm

beyond impressed. It's so impressive. Yeah. No, absolutely. And so this van for them becomes this symbol of freedom and possibility. At least it does for Gabby. It's going to be just the two of them, the open road, and already the several hundred or so of Gabby's social media followers that she's been able to like get at that point. One of this week's partners is Peloton. There's a specific kind of joy and freedom that comes from a truly great workout, that feeling where everything just clicks. Peloton is helping you unlock that feeling with the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. It's cross-training reimagined. Peloton IQ actually personalizes your journey by planning your workouts, tracking your progress, and even correcting your form in real time to help

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Head to quince.com slash clues for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's QI-N-C-E.com slash clues for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash clues. Sometime in June of 2021. Gabby and Brian drive their van up to New York to go visit her family. And then on July 2nd, which is exactly one year after Brian proposed, they say their farewells to their family, they hit the road for what they think is going to be the trip

of a lifetime. Two days later, on the 4th of July, Gabby posts her first photo on the road at Monument Rocks, which is this really beautiful landscape near Oakley, Kansas. And the caption reads, quote, there's no place like the tiny home we built. hashtag fan life. Then on July 8th, Gabby posts photos from Colorado Springs, Colorado. And then on the 10th and 11th, she posts from these really beautiful sand dunes in Colorado's great sand dune National Park and Preserve.

By the 16th, she and Brian are camping in Zion National Park in Utah. They have covered so much ground on this trip already. Insane. So incredible how much they saw in that little time. And over the next few days, they bounce around to a couple more Utah Parks and Gabby this entire time is documenting everything. She has her drone out. She's capturing these really beautiful sweeping shots of landscapes. She's figuring out all of the camera equipment and filming herself cooking meals. She's showing off how they organize their tiny living spaces.

All of her posts are so positive too, inspirational stuff filled with so much gratitude. And it seems like the couple is settling into a nice routine, at least via the social media that Gabby's posting. In the morning, she has to be a lot of. In the morning, she has to be able to be. has vlogs where she makes coffee or she'll shoot Brian doing a little bit of yoga. Then she films them having a day of exploring wherever park they're at. They'll do things like go for hikes. They'll soak in hot springs and they'll just have a good time. And at night, Gabby spends pretty much the entire night editing all of the footage that she

took during the day. It's a lot of work for Gabby at this time. But like we said, she's just really dedicated to grow her platform. And so she's like willing to put in all of the work for it. The nice thing about all of this is Gabby's family is really supportive of this dream for her. Gabby called her mom essentially every day to fill her in on what they had seen. And in all of those early check-ins, sources, including her mother, say that Gabby seemed to be pretty upbeat and in good spirits, beaming about all of the stuff that they had done so far.

And to those who were watching and hearing about Gabby's adventure online, it seemed to be a total dream come true. And things continued that way for about the next month. But then, on August 25th, Gabby posts one more time on Instagram. It's this photo of her. She's standing in front of a mural in Ogden, Utah. And she's smiling and holding a pumpkin. And the caption says, happy Halloween. That day, Gabby did not call or text her mom like she normally would.

The last time that they had spoken was actually the day before. They had FaceTimed. And Gabby told her mom Nicole that the next stop they were going to was going to be the Grand Teton National Park near Jackson, Wyoming. Nicole doesn't immediately worry when she doesn't hear from Gabby that day. There's so many reasons that this could be happening. Maybe they don't have service. Maybe Gabby was just really busy. She doesn't really think that much of it right away.

But on August 27th, several days have gone by and she still hasn't heard anything from Gabby. So Nicole reaches back out just to check in. And Gabby replies. She texts her saying that everything was fine and that Brian was going to camp in the woods so she could get some time alone in the van. And there's something about this text that sets off an alarm bell for her mother.

But that's not the only strange text that Gabby's mom Nicole gets. She actually gets another one later that day, which is our first big clue. The text reads, quote, Can you help Stan? I just keep keep. getting his voicemails and missed calls. The stand, she's referring to, is Gabby's

grandpa, but it's super weird for Nicole because Gabby doesn't call her grandpa Stan. She calls him Grandpa. So immediately, alarm bells are ringing even louder for her. She texts Gabby back, but gets no response. But on August 30th, another text comes in from Gabby to Nicole, and all it says is, quote, no service in Yosemite. Nicole tries her daughter again, on September 1st and second, but still, there's nothing. She starts to wonder if Gabby is either in trouble or if for some reason Brian is using her phone. I know in the Netflix documentary, she even kind of says, like, oh, well, maybe Brian was texting for her while she was driving. And that's why Stan was used instead of grandpa.

But even whenever I grab Matt's phone to shoot off a quick text, especially like to his mom, I'll say like, it's Kaelin. Either that or I'll just pretend it's just. Like I'm just pretending it's him and like, you know, being like, hey, can you call grandpa? Like, I'm not going to be like, hey, can you call Jerry? Yeah, I'll have him dictate the text to me. So it's still in his voice. Exactly. So to get something that's like so not in the voice of your child.

I understand. It's eerie. It's eerie. So I get why she picked up on it, but I also get why she thought maybe. She was giving it a little bit more time. Yeah. Absolutely. But, you know, by the time we get to September 2nd, it's been almost a week since she's heard from Gabby.

And something is. You're not driving the whole time at some way you have to pull over and you would assume that she would call. Something's clearly off. And so Gabby's friends at this point are also starting to get pretty worried because now multiple people have been calling and texting her and have not heard anything back. I mean, the fact that the first text said, what? Can you help Stan? I just keep getting his voicemails and miss calls. That means that her grandpa was really trying to get in touch with her.

And whoever's using this phone is trying to basically like get them off their trail. But now everyone is contacting her and no one is hearing anything. Gabby doesn't call her best friend Rose on her birthday, August 29th. That is incredibly out of character for Gabby, especially since the two were supposed to meet up for a hike in Yellowstone. That day, she was going to meet her on the trip. Nicole texts Gabby's dad, her ex-husband, Joe. She asks him, has he heard anything from Gabby? lately recently in the last few days,

but he texts her back that he also hasn't heard anything. On September 9th, Gabby's younger brother, Joey, calls another one of Gabby's close friends and asks if she has heard from Gabby. And she has not either. And remember, it's like August 24th is the last time Gabby's mom heard from her. Pretty soon, the entire family is really desperately calling everyone they know

just to find out if anyone has heard from her. And so when they do this, they also reach out to Brian's parents because they think to themselves like, hey, this couple's engaged. If something happened to Gabby, maybe something happened to Brian or maybe they have heard from Brian and he's said something. And surely these parents will want to help us because our children are engaged. We're all in this together. So they reach out to the laundries dead silent. They don't say anything. They don't respond to a single call or text.

message. From parents who are essentially pleading with them, have you heard from our daughter? Do you know anything that's going on with Gabby? So finally, on September 11th, this is over two weeks since they've heard from Gabby at this point, not knowing where she could be, Nicole and Joe call their local authorities, and they officially report her as missing. And that quickly gets the FBI and the Northport Florida Police Department involved. That evening, officers from the Northport, Florida police station, dropped by the laundry home to take a statement from Brian's parents. And as soon as the Northport police officers arrive, they noticed something in the driveway. Sitting there is Gabby's white Ford Transit van, our second clue.

Which means someone clearly made it back to Florida with this vehicle. But when officers knock on the door, things get even weirder. And this is all on camera, by the way. This is on YouTube. You can watch the body cam footage of them having this conversation with. the laundries. It is beyond weird and frustrating. Brian's father, Chris, answers the door. And before police can even explain why they're there, he announces, quote, Brian is here. And that's all I'm going to say. That reads lawyer. That reads statement given to me by my lawyer to say to the police

when they arrive. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No one's asking. No one has even asked you a single question yet. And you're already like, Brian's here. That's all I'm going to say. Yeah. And it becomes even more clear there's a lawyer involved because the next words out of his mouth are that he's hired an attorney. Exactly. There it is. We won't be speaking to you. Contact our attorney. Here's his number. It is beyond frustrating. It's just like, hey, like, where's Gabby? That's all we want to know. Hey, where's Gabby? The van's here. Where's Gabby? Nope. Brian's here. Talk to our lawyer. You guys, you'll watch some of the clips and let us know what you think. Like, was this a quick jump or is it just responsible? I got a lawyer. Talk to my lawyer. Yes.

Hi, I didn't, sir. I apologize for bothering you. I have the detective on the phone. I'm not talking to anybody around. You don't want to talk to us? Okay, she's on the phone. You don't want to talk to her now? No. Okay.

When was the last time that you saw Brian and Gabriel? Well, Brian is here. Brian is here? Yeah, and that's what I'm the same. No, it's not responsible at all. I hate these people. But one thing, we've talked about it on the show before. Like, usually people get lawyers after they've

already started talking to the police and there is a confirmed murder that has happened. No one even knows what happened to Gabby at this point and they're already like, will we have a lawyer? Yeah. So, I know. Officer Ramirez, the one who shows up on scene really does try to squeeze more answers out of them, but they are not giving him anything. However, Brian's older sister Cassie, who doesn't live in the house with them, does agree to speak by telephone with detectives from Suffolk County, New York. From her, the cops learned that Brian returned home on September 1st, and Gabby wasn't with him. Do you think Cassie told detectives this from the goodness of her heart, or do you think

she just hadn't contacted her parents yet who told her that we have a lawyer, don't say anything? I mean, Cassie kind of goes on the front lawn down the line, too, and kind of talks about being disconnected and all of this. Like, I truly, I don't know with her. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it's guilt or I don't know. If she actually wants to help or.

Yeah, interesting. I want to assume she wanted to help. I'm like, but the whole thing is, I mean, this is weird. This is so weird. And it's really weird for Nicole, Gabby's mom when she hears this. Her stomach sinks. There's a lot of reasons why Brian's parents would need to hire a lawyer. But to Gabby's family, none of them are.

good reasons. And the police here are in a really tough spot. They don't have probable cause at this point. They can't enter the house without a warrant or an invitation. They're certainly not getting the ladder. So their hands are kind of tied in terms of what they can do. But since the van is registered in Gabby's name, they are able to confiscate it and so they have it towed to process it for evidence. And I will say, I think this moment could have very, easily been a botch on our board because the detective from New York calls the police in Florida. And like, she has asked for a supervisor to even like get this van towed. Like it's a very tense phone call.

A lot of it is on the documentary. Right. Because the officer in Florida is basically saying, well, what do you want me to do? They're not talking. She's an adult. There's nothing for me to do. Yeah, she's an adult. She maybe just left.

She's probably good. And the officer they're talking to is a woman. woman and is really trying to figure out what they can do. Like she's not ready to drop this case just yet. And so she gets her supervisor on to talk with him. That's right. And the tone like it's very frustrating for me because I feel like the tone instantly changes when it's supervisor talking to this police officer in Florida. Of course, yeah. And so he goes up to the door. And I really do think the reason he confiscated the van is because of how the laundries treated him. I think he kind of took this as like a, you're not going to talk to me? You're not going to give me anything? Fine. I'll take the van.

Which fine, we'll take it. I'll take anything at this point. Yeah, I'll take anything. But it's just a moment in this case that I feel that van could have been left there that night very easily. So shortly after this, North Point detectives are starting to investigate from other angles, taking things a little bit more seriously. And this is when they happen upon the money trail, which is clue number three for us. On September 11th, the very same day they stopped by the laundry home, detectives reach out to Gabby's banks to get a complete. complete list of her transactions. Their goal is to confirm her last known location. They discover that

between August 30th and September 1st, after Gabby had already gone silent with family and friends, someone spent over $1,000 using her debit card. The transactions show purchases at gas stations along the route from Wyoming, back to Florida. But there's one more detail that really stands out to them. Investigators find a $700 Zell payment made from Gabby's account to Brian's, along with a message that reads, quote, goodbye, Brian, I'll never ask you for anything again. Now, this could be Gabby ending their relationship and giving him some money to get home. You know, her mom, Nicole, mentioned that Gabby was maybe going to potentially buy Brian out of the van and continue on this van life journey on her own, so maybe it was a payment for that. Or could be Brian.

trying to create an alibi for himself, a paper trail, making it look like Gabby was still alive. But why do you need a lawyer for that? That's a great question. If she dumped you and told you to find your way home, here's $700, get home, you don't need a lawyer for that. You'd think you would have taken a plane and not driven her van and used her debit card to buy the gas? Of course. Yeah, they're not dumb. Like the investigators that are looking into this are like, what's going on?

What's going on here? And it looks even weirder because after the same. Stan and no service in Yosemite texts, no one besides Brian had any contact with Gabby. The only trace of her besides those transactions were several texts back and forth between the two of them on August 29th. A text from him to her that read, quote, Hey, honey, just calling to let you know I made it to Coulter Bay. I think the campground is still a little ways up the road. I'm going to go check it out.

Let me know when you're on your way, no rush. end quote. Another that read, quote, can't wait for you to see the mountains across the water. Again, was he creating an alibi for himself? He's being very specific with the details of where he is. And it's definitely suspicious timing. Considering the payment happened right around this time when Gabby stopped communicating with everyone else. Her last confirmed financial transaction was two days before Brian sent those possibly misleading text messages. It was at 2 p.m. on August 27th at a gas station in Jackson, Wyoming. So on September 11th, the detectives in Florida call the Jackson Wyoming Police Department and ask for their help. The Jackson Police started at the gas station, and from there they kind of go door to door

collecting CCTV footage from all the local businesses in the area that have cameras. They comb through hundreds of hours of footage until they find what they're looking for. They find a video from Whole Foods on August 27th, our fourth clue. So this video shows the van entering the Whole Foods parking lot at around 2.11 p.m. They sit in the car for a few minutes before you can see Brian getting out. And I'm very curious what you all think about this clip. Okay. When you watch this clip on YouTube, this section of the clip is actually the most played in the video. But it shows Brian getting out of the van and seemingly like slamming the door madly. And I'm, Here's what you guys think. I'm going to read your comments. But from there, he heads to the back of the van, grabs a hat, and then they head into the store. You see Gabby and Brian shopping together, shopping separate. They wander through the aisles for about 15 minutes, not really talking or interacting much, and then they actually leave without buying anything. They head back to the van where they sit inside for about 20 minutes. It's unclear what they're doing. You can't really see based on the camera. But they do in a

up leaving at around 253 p.m. Brian, who's driving, pulls it to the parking lot and turns on Highway 89, and that road is the one that leads kind of into the National Forest there. But that's kind of all they get from this footage. Kind of odd, clearly uncomfortable. They're in the store for that long, but don't buy anything. It's just really, really weird to investigators. But that's kind of all they get. There's no witnesses or other security cameras that could verify Gabby's whereabouts after that point, but the video gave them a place to start. Then, by interviewing other witnesses in the area, they learned that earlier in the day, around noon, Gabby and Brian had eaten at a restaurant in Jackson called the Mary Piglet. According to witnesses there, they got into a huge argument and stormed out

without paying their bill. A server actually had to chase them down in the parking lot to get them to come back in and pay. There's a lot of text messages between them at this time that do get shared. I know in Gabby's messages, her meal made her sick. And so she, like, didn't want to pay for a meal that made her sick. But Brian was at the table and had already received the bill and was kind of questioning, like, do I go back to the car? And the witnesses said that this argument, it seemed a little one-sided. Gabby was kind of crying. She was really upset. Brian's getting very visibly angry at Gabby. Also, I think he was being pretty aggressive with the wait staff. And Gabby's trying to apologize for his behavior. So she's trying to do recon.

and feeling really bad, and Brian is a little bit on a tear. Yeah, she's just kind of seemingly trying to de-escalate the whole thing. And clearly it carries into the rest of the day for them. I mean, this Whole Foods video captures just how strained they still are after this very public fight. And at this point, investigators are thinking this Whole Foods footage is the last footage we have of Gabby alive. And then they're going down the rabbit hole of, could this fight be enough of, motive for murder. This episode is brought to you by Instacart. I have a four-month-old at home, which means I don't leave the house unless I absolutely have to. Going to the grocery store is

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Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank top with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Well, by September 15th, which is nearly three weeks after the Whole Foods video was taken, the investigation really starts reaching this fever pitch. It now included police and sheriff's departments from three different states,

in addition to the FBI National Park Service and Teton County Search and Rescue. So that day, Brian was also officially named a person of interest. And while the cops are sifting through surveillance footage and trying to piece together a timeline, Gabby's family is doing everything humanly possible to help the investigation. Her stepfather, Jim, gets on a plane to Wyoming to meet directly with the investigators there. And he's going to spread missing persons flyers out near Jackson since that's where she was last seen. Meanwhile, Gabby's mom Nicole and her whole family are busy working around the clock. They're doing all these interviews.

They're emailing news outlets. And they're starting to post the story on social media. And it really doesn't always happen in situations like this, but their efforts start really paying off specifically on social media. Videos about Gabby's disappearance start going absolutely viral. They all use the hashtag, find Gabby Petito. And actually, a few days earlier on September 14th, Gabby's friend posted one of the flyers on TikTok. Probably not even thinking anything would come of it, but just trying to exhaust all options that they have to post about her. And she wakes up the next morning and it has over 1.4 million views.

There's something about this that's really resonating with people and they're sharing it everywhere. It was kind of like the whole world wanted to help find Gabby in that moment. And also at this time, tips start pouring in from everywhere, all over the country. Just people who thought that they maybe saw a white van, people who were camping in the same area, and they didn't know if they saw anything, but maybe they could be helpful. People are even going through pictures on their iPhones that they had taken while they were at these parks being like, is she in the background, like zooming in on the people in the background, trying to see if she's there. And they find her in some of their pictures.

Yeah, she is there in some of the pictures. and they start sending all of these to investigators. People also start going through Gabby and Brian's social media posts, and they're really starting to pick those apart and just overanalyze everything. And it is around this time, too, that while there's a lot of good that's coming from this, TikTok is also treating this like a real-time mystery that they can help solve, and in some ways their involvement stops being helpful and starts kind of impeding the police. FBI Special Agent Jones said that at one point his office received over 45,

100 tips just in that first week alone. It was so overwhelming that they had to set up a special team in the Denver field office just to handle the volume. And then on September 16th, which really is a day after it all started going viral on social media, everything changed. On August 12th, two weeks before Gabby was last seen, the police department in Moab, Utah, receive a 911 call. The call came in from a driver who wanted to report a domestic dispute in downtown Moab.

The driver said that he saw a man and woman arguing on a sidewalk. The man slapped the woman, and they both got into a white van and drove off. But that's just the beginning of this story. The Moab police caught up to the couple in the van and pulled them over. You can see the dash cam footage of all of this going down, and the van actually hits a curb before it actually pulls over. And in the van was Gabby and Brian. Which, can I just add, I think.

a lot of times you hear these horror stories of people who witness domestic disputes and feel like it's not their business, especially men. I think women tend to report domestic disputes more than men do. And so really good on this guy for seeing a guy slap a girl on the sidewalk and call it into the police. Just like, that's great. It's very appreciated. And so the Moab police actually encounter this whole interaction on body cam footage, which is our clue number five. And hopping back into the timeline we're at, September 16th, this is when police release this video footage of Gabby and Brian and this interaction with officers. And it is a bombshell, especially on TikTok and other social media platforms. Yeah, because they can easily share this video everywhere.

His names. Gabby. I'm Brian. Okay. What's going on? What can you're trying? I'm just trying. We have these personal issues.

And it is shared everywhere. And this footage is really heartbreaking because you know Gabby's missing and now you see this. Gabby is crying the whole time in this video. She's visibly shaken as officers ask her about the incident. And she's blaming the whole thing on herself, her anxiety, overreacting, you know, whatever. And she says the whole fight actually started because Brian got into the van with dirty feet. And Gabby kind of joked about that. this in her videos with him all the time. Like it was something Brian did often. And Gabby really wanted

to keep the van clean. So it would look good in their videos, but also this is their home. This is their living space. This is their home. Dirt everywhere in your living space. And the argument really escalated from there. But Gabby goes on to say that she apologized for how she spoke to him. But in her telling of it, she apologized in a quote, mean tone. They stopped at a coffee shop. And this is where Brian then snatched her keys, made it sound like he was going to abandon her, locked her out of the van. And she's still blaming herself because she said her apology was not in a tone. Her apology was in a mean tone that maybe triggered Brian, but that it was her fault.

That's what she's saying. It was so upsetting to hear. And so she tries to catch up to him on the street when he's, you know, walking away with the keys. And this is when he slapped her. After that, they got in the van where I guess the argument continued. As Gabby's telling this to cops, she's constantly. constantly apologizing, saying things like, I was distracting him. I'm sorry. I think talking about the driving when he hit the curb. But she's taking the blame for all of what happened here.

And even though she says that Brian grabbed her face and hit her, she's telling officers that she was the aggressor, that she hit him first. And while Gabby is melting down in front of the Moab police, Brian is just a few yards away, totally calm, collected. He's actually cracking jokes with these officers about how the whole fight is just about his dirty feet and kind of like making it seem like it's really no big deal. I feel like at one point two in the dash cam footage, it's Brian and it's the officers and they're kind of agreeing that women can be emotional sometimes. They're like, yeah, we get it, man. Like we have wives. Yeah.

The cops point to scratches on his face and neck and Brian says he doesn't want to press. charges against Gabby. He says he loves her and that things just got out of hand. And this whole time, he's playing the role of, I don't know, like, I don't know if patient is the right word here, but he's just like, collected. It's not upset. So composed. Just. He's playing the role of, oh, I was the victim here, but I'm such a cool, collected dude that I'm not going to make a big deal about it because I know women can be emotional. Yeah. And the police are eating it up. Yeah. Even though the call that came in was about a man slapping a woman in the face. I don't think they asked Gabby at all if she wants to press charges. No. And that's why we're getting a botched here. When you watch this footage, like there are multiple officers that do talk about having a bad vibe and how they'd rather be overly cautious and, you know, get dinged for something they did than something they didn't do. But then they kind of talk each other out of it. Mm-hmm. It's really, it's really hard to watch. insight. Really, really hard to watch. But, you know, that is kind of where they leave it. They separate them for the night and are taking Brian to a hotel. Yeah, they just tell them to not contact each other for

one night, cool off, and then figure it out later. And so they let Gabby drive off in the van. They give Brian that ride to a hotel that they help him book with instructions to not talk to Gabby until the next day. And it does appear like they ignored those instructions pretty much immediately. That evening, Gabby goes and picks up Brian in the van and they drive another 230 miles to Salt Lake City. Two weeks after this police encounter is when Gabby disappears. And when the Moab body cam footage gets released on September 16th, it is absolutely just throwing gasoline on an already raging fire. It takes off everywhere. It's shared millions of times. Millions of people watch Gabby crying and apologizing. And now that she's missing and the world knows that, it takes on a totally new

meaning. It's like everyone can see through this interaction in a way that the police couldn't. Like, of course, this tiny crying girl in the passenger seat is not the aggressor in the situation. And so a lot of people immediately start blaming Brian for the disappearance. They don't know exactly what he did, but they sure as hell feel like he was responsible. And that same day on September 16th is when Gabby's father, Joe, flies down to Florida for a press conference. And in it, he begs the world to join the search for Gabby. He wants all hands on deck. And at this point, it seems like he is agreeing with everyone else who watched that body camp footage.

And he pleads directly with Brian's family and friends to please help find their daughter. Protesters also at this point start lining up outside of the laundry family home. with signs demanding answers. And you can see this. There's news coverage of it. There are people outside of that house screaming. They do not get a moment of peace once this video comes out. Brian becomes really one of the most hated men in America.

And his family can't leave the house without facing that angry mob that's standing outside on the sidewalk outside. But still, they say nothing. They basically barricade themselves inside the house. They're refusing to talk. But at this time, the investigation is really. really starting to pick up steam, so they're not going to be able to get away with this for much longer. No, it's around this time that police really start taking a closer look at Gabby's digital footprint, which is clue number six for us.

When the FBI gets access to Gabby's laptop, they start going through her digital life to figure out where exactly she was in those final days. And what they find gives them their first real breakthrough in terms of where to actually search for her. From her computer, the FBI can see that the last time Gabby was active online was at 8.32 p.m. on August 27th. And this was several hours after that Whole Foods video was taken. They discovered that Gabby had been using an app called The Dirt, and it spelled D-Y-R-T, and she

used this to plan and track all of her hikes. And investigators learned that she had marked trails around Spread Creek near Grand Teton National Park right there in Jackson, Wyoming. So investigators now have a place they can narrow down their search, kind of focus on that specific region, but it's still a lot of ground to cover. And the terrain is super rugged. The weather is pretty harsh. But they still, they do carry on with their search. They use drones, horses, search dogs, basically everything you can think of to search that area. They know the clock is ticking. The laundries aren't saying anything. So this kind of feels like their only hope. And they know that

they can't get a warrant or do anything about Brian until they either find Gabby or he starts talking on his own. Yeah, exactly. And they also know that they're working against this weather clock because the first heavy snows in Grand Teton typically start in November. It's now the second half of September. And so once the snow and these storms start coming in, the search and rescue leaders are going to have to call it off until the spring. Luckily, the van life and vlog logging community is pretty tight-knit. And many of them have been scouring through their own footage for any sign of Gabby. And they're about to get a big breakthrough. Like Gabby, Jen and Kyle Batoon were content creators who really yearned for adventure. In February 2020, they uprooted their

cozy lives in Florida to travel the country in a vintage bus with their three kids and four dogs. And in late August 2021, that journey led them through. the Grand Teton National Park. On September 18th, just before midnight, Jen is editing footage for a YouTube video on her laptop when she gets a message from one of her followers. The follower asked if she was in the Grand Teton area around August 27th. Jen's heart starts racing. She's in the van community. It's a really small world. She knows exactly what and who this person is talking about. I mean, the whole internet has been looking for Gabby Petito. But Jen is still going off an early estimate from the FBI of when Gabby was in the Teton's, which was August 21st to August 24th. The

batons hadn't gotten there until the 27th. So in Jen's mind, there's no way they could have crossed pass. But now Jen's realizing this timeline is changing. It's actually, it's the 27th when she's there. And she starts combing through all of her footage that she has. Because they were also like Gabby, they took a ton of footage. They were filming everything. They're recording everything. Everything. Even just dash cam footage driving. She has so much footage that she can start combing through.

And within a few minutes, she shouts to her husband, Kyle, come here. In her archived footage from August 27th, she sees it. Gabby's White Ford transit van parked right by a specific area near the park called Spread Creek. And this Baton video is our clue number seven. This is a huge break in the case. And without hesitation, Jen calls the FBI tip line at 1 a.m. on September 19th and sends them a copy of that video. The FBI pretty much immediately confirmed that this van in the Batoon video is Gabby's.

They also can corroborate the timeline with the help of a couple of witnesses. So there are witnesses who claimed to have picked up Brian while he was hitchhaping. alone in the area, and they offered him a ride on August 29, two days later. So the first was this woman, Miranda Baker, and her boyfriend. I remember seeing this video. Like, I remember when the van footage came out from the road and the batons. I remember seen this video. And this was huge.

Absolutely, because it's weird. Like, what she comes forward with is very strange. Very. She says that around 5.30 p.m. on the 29th, Brian offered her and her boyfriend, $200, to go just 10 miles. And they immediately are like, what's going on? Why are you offering us so much money to go such a short distance? Like, gas is expensive, but it's not that expensive.

And it seems like when Brian was in the car, he realized that they were actually headed towards Jackson Hole, the town, rather than Jackson Dam, which is where he wanted to go. And he starts freaking out and asks to be let out of the car right away. So they're like, okay, they finally drop him off closer to where he wanted to go. around 609 p.m. And they also said that despite claiming that he had been out there camping for several days, he looked very clean and very put together.

Around 6.20 p.m., that same exact day, another female driver. One who saw Miranda Baker's video about picking Brian up on TikTok. She had talked about it on TikTok. So she says that she also picked up Brian, and he offered her gas money to take him to the

entrance of the Spread Creek dispersed camping area. the same place that that Batoon video was taken. She said he was acting really antsy the entire ride. And the second they got close to the campsite, he jumped out of the car and he refused to let her take him any closer to the area he was trying to get to. Yeah, she actually joked. She's like, oh, you don't want your fiance to see me drive you up?

He's like, no, no, no, don't worry about it. And just kind of like hopped out of the car. So even as it was happening, it's not even hindsight where she thinks it's weird. As it was happening, she thinks it's very strange that he's just really trying to get out of the car and not have her see what's going on. Yeah. There's another little thing she shares too in the Netflix documentary when they interview her, but she had a Bible on her dash and it actually slid off the dash and landed right on Brian. And she was like, God, that's so odd. It never moves. But it's all in hindsight, right? Yeah, of course. It's all in hindsight.

Well, on the morning of September 19th, investigators drive up and down that road near Spread Creek until they find the exact spot the Batoon video was taken. They're literally. looking at the trees on the side of the road, trying to be like where exactly was this footage taken? And then once they find it, they deploy all of their teams to calm the area systematically. They have mounted units follow the creek on horseback going up and down the south bank and then crossing the riverbed to search the north. And it's at this time when one of the mounted searchers sees something out in the distance that when he sees it, it just doesn't look like it belongs to the natural landscape. He said it was like a rough

texture seemed to be something fabric. So he rides over to get a better look at what he's seeing. And that's when he realizes that it is a body. It's wrapped in a sweater and it's lying on its side. And it's not long before they're able to realize that this is Gabby Petito. One person even described it like she, it looked like she had laid down for a nap. She had one hand under her head. She looked really peaceful, almost like you could shake her and wake her up.

and the FBI immediately secures the scene and they call Gabby's family to let them know what they had found. Jim Schmidt, which is Gabby's stepfather, he gets the news first. He learns that Gabby's body is pretty badly decomposed, but he is still able to help identify her just from photos that he sees. And it takes another couple of weeks before the police released the final autopsy report, but on October 12th, the Teton County Corpsey report,

Orner's office declares Gabby's death definitively a homicide. Although she has signs of blunt force trauma on her head and neck, the official ruling is that Gabby died by manual strangulation. Though one interesting note is that the FBI actually later reports that she died of, quote, blunt force injuries to the head and neck with manual strangulation. So just like a semantics on potentially when each attack happened, I guess. Unfortunately, there's one person who seems like they would have a lot more answers about exactly what happened, Brian Laundry, but he was already gone. When they go to check in with him, he's vanished. He himself was missing.

So while the search for Gabby was now over, the manhunt for Brian Laundry had just started. Gabby's family, the press, and law enforcement had been banging down the laundry's door, just begging them to cooperate with the investment. investigation at all. But on Friday, September 17th, Brian's parents, Chris and Roberta, finally decide they want to talk to the cops. This is the first time they decide, you know what, let us call the police and tell them something that we know. But it's not to help with the investigation. It's not to talk about Gabby. It's not to connect with the parents that have been pleading with them for weeks at this point. It's to tell the police that their son is missing, that now they want help finding their son. Because they haven't seen Brian since the third.

13th, which was four days prior. Yeah, and this is where we are getting another tally on the botch board because police had the laundry's home fully under surveillance. There was a mob outside. A mob. And so the fact that he was able to slip out undetected, getting a botch, get in a botch mark. How many cases have we looked at where the person just disappears before they're actually arrested for anything?

Because they catch wind of what's going on or they know that they are the ones responsible, so they just sneak out. Yeah, it's really frustrating, especially considering his parents knew he was leaving and why he was leaving. It's annoying. So according to Chris and Roberta, Brian had been stressed about all the media attention and protesters camping outside of their house. And they were really sad that their baby boy was so stressed out. So Brian told them that he needed to go. go on a hike to clear his head. He took this backpack that he had with supplies. He took some food. He took a tent. And the laundry said that this wasn't unusual. Typically, when Brian was stressed,

he liked to go outdoors to clear his head. And he often would bring a tent in case, you know, he wanted to stay the night. And, you know, his parents really thought, hey, we know your fiance's missing. And every sign is pointing to you being responsible for it. But you seem pretty stressed out. So why don't you go take a break? But when Roberta and Chris, went to search for their son the morning of September 14th the next day. They found Brian's car abandoned by the entrance to Mycahatchee Creek Park, about five miles from their home. And that kind of takes us into our next clue. Clue number eight, Brian's Ford Mustang.

So after Roberta and Chris went to the park to look for Brian, they didn't find him. And so the next day on September 15th, they returned to the park. And this time, Roberta drove Brian's car home. And I've seen in some sources, there's something about like a tick. it and that's why she drove at home, which upon arrival, investigators staked outside the laundry's home actually confused Roberta for Brian. And when asking investigators about this, they say that they have similar body types. And that's why they mix them up. They saw her in the car and they thought it was Brian. Apparently she had a hat on. But investigators, yeah,

similar body types essentially saying they thought it was a man. They thought it was Brian. That is so strange. So by the 17th again, Roberta and Chris are extremely concerned enough to call police and invite them into their home to actually help locate their son. The FBI and law enforcement immediately zero in on Maya Kahachi Creek Park and the Carlton Reserve, these two parks that are right next to each other. And these parks are an absolute nightmare to see. search. We're talking about 40 square miles of wild terrain and swamp land filled with alligators, venomous snakes, wild boars. Some of it is completely flooded, making it impossible to access on foot. Yeah, I read that the water goes up and down a lot in those parks. So one day it could be

completely flooded. The next day it's almost drained and then it rains and it floods again. Yeah. Total nightmare. Yeah. And the search teams are having to like wade through this waste deep water all while worrying about alligators. coming up behind them. And the search efforts have become enormous. Helicopters, drones, K9 units, dive teams, dozens of volunteers. I also read, did you read about the influencers that showed up at this point? You have a lot of internet sleuths coming out to be private detectives. Yeah, this is what I was talking about earlier when I was saying that some of the social media stuff started impeding the investigation. But there were, there's video footage of some, like,

TikTokers just out in the laundry's backyard tramping around trying to find Brian, like thinking that they're going to be the ones to find him. I remember there were a lot of theories that he got on a plane. Yeah. There were sightings in Mexico of him at this time. There was like a trail cam footage. Someone thought they saw him in their backyard in like Tennessee or something. I remember that the conspiracy theories were popping off. Yeah. And when you have something like TikTok that can move news so quickly and it's unverified news, it was starting to get really, really, as you mentioned, difficult for investigators. It's so tough because sometimes, like with quote unquote conspiracy theories, I'll ask myself, is there reason to believe this? And if so, is it necessarily conspiracy theories?

So when you have these TikTokers saying he probably was buried in his backyard or got on a plane, the laundries have been so weird this entire time that all of those theories feel like they reasonably could have happened. Yeah. So I don't even know if they're conspiracy theories at that point. They're just like things the family could have done to cover up for their son because they've already been covering up for him. So much. Yeah, anything could fit. I mean, people were really going wild with this. Dog the bounty hunter showed up.

Oh, I remember that. Claiming he was going to find Brian. Protesters are still outside chanting, holding up signs, demanding justice for Gabby. And the search for him just dominates the news cycle for weeks. But still, no Brian. He's not found. Throughout late September and October, heavy rain start flooding the air. area. And authorities end up closing the parks to the public and they actually start scaling back the search. It's just getting way too hard to search these areas. And on October 20th, which is more than five weeks after Brian's last sighting, Maya Kahachi Creek Park reopens for visitors. And that morning, around 7 a.m., before anyone can really see them do this, Brian's parents drive to the park again to look for Brian themselves. And this time they're accompanied by law enforcement. They end up telling the police.

that they know where he likes to hike. So they immediately go to those areas, and that morning, they find something. Around 8 a.m., they'd only been in the park really for an hour. Chris discovers Brian's dry bag sitting in the woods. And just 45 minutes after that, authorities make the discovery that everyone had been waiting for. He finds human remains that are barely recognizable

after an entire month in the Florida swamp. And nearby these remains, investigators also find a gun. And on October 21st, dental records confirm what everyone already suspected that this is Brian. I mean, the fact that they had to use dental records kind of gives you an idea of how much of him was left. The autopsy later reveals that the cause of death was a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. And I will say, Reddit, TikTok, the conspiracy theories around this were... just insane. Oh, because they, at that point, if dental records confirm someone's identity, then it kind of is a conspiracy theory. But I know people thought that it was just someone else entirely.

Yeah, I mean, people were really weirded out by the fact his parents seemingly just walked in the park and found him. Like they had kind of known where he was all along. His uncle is a dentist. So people were like, oh, his uncle probably pulled his teeth and put him there. Like, a lot of conspiracies really took off at this point. I will say, though, that is weird that the parents found him in an hour once they were allowed back in the They didn't tell police earlier that they knew where he liked to hike. Again, that is really weird. The whole investigation, they're playing games. They're playing games.

Well, according to them, they were just listening to their lawyer. Our big mean lawyer told us what to say the whole time. We would have said something different, but our lawyer kept saying what we should say. That's an easy scapego. Every single interview they've given has just been that. Yeah. So with this discovery comes a pretty big revelation, which is clue number nine. a notebook Brian left behind in his waterproof bag.

Inside were goodbye letters Brian had written to his family. In them, he said, quote, I've killed myself by this creek in the hopes that the animals will tear me apart, that it may make some of Gabby's family happy, end quote. Brian did admit to murdering Gabby, but in his telling, it was a mercy killing. Here's what he said. quote, this was an unexpected tragedy.

Rushing back to our car, trying to cross the streams, I hear a splash and a scream. I can barely see. I found her breathing, barely, gasping. She was freezing cold. The temp had dropped. When I pulled Gabby out of the water, she couldn't tell me what hurt. While carrying her, she continually made sounds of pain. Laying next to her, she said between violent shakes, gasping in pain, begging for an end to her pain.

I ended her life. I thought it was merciful. But from the moment I decided to take her pain away, I knew I couldn't go on without her. I rushed home to spend any time I had left with my family. I wanted to let James or T.J. kill me. I'm ending my life because I cannot stand to live another day without her. Please do not make life harder for my family.

They lost a son and a daughter. End quote. Just such cowardice. If they also lost her, a daughter, then why weren't they working with her family from the get-go? No, I mean, obviously, he's lying. Come on. He's lying.

Like, I would never, I would never, ever take someone's life into my own hand. My fiancé, I'm out in the wilderness with my fiance, mercy killing. Obviously, that's not what happened. There's just this air of not taking responsibility for anything in this family that I think has been taught to the children, or at least has been taught to Brian, where, I mean, this is clearly a lie. even knowing he was going to take his own life, that there would never be any consequences for him. No matter what he said, he still chose to lie to everyone.

And he also has that stupid line of like, hopefully this makes Gabby's family happy. It's giving the... Victim. The, yeah. Oh, I guess I'm the worst boyfriend ever then. Just not even being able to have a conversation about anything is horrible. Just this is so telling as to the type of person he was. If you're going to go out this way, at least just put it all out there.

Like give the family some closure, but it's even in this, it's still about him. It's just, I did the right thing because I'm a really good guy. And so I have to kill myself. So what? It just doesn't make any sense. No. And a lot of people point out that Brian's version of events don't match up with what the autopsy found. Yeah, I don't think any single person investigator or internet sleuth or anyone thought that this was actually what happened.

No, no believed it for a second. No, because Gabby died from blunt force injuries to the head. neck with manual strangulation, according to the FBI. None of what Brian mentions in this journal entry showed up in the autopsy report. Yeah, about how broken her body would have been. Plus, Brian went to extreme lengths to cover up his crime. The fake paper trail, the Zell goodbye money transfer and message. It's not the work of a remorseful person, and it obviously points to him line again. There's no credibility with his story. And we even have those texts from Gabby to Brian on August 29th.

And the FBI is actually able to show that their phones were basically next to each other at the time. Brian was creating a paper trail to throw the cops off. He's just texting the two phones back and forth himself because the messages were showing up almost like instantly to each other. But we're never really going to know what exactly happened at that campsite because the only two people who were there are no, longer with us. And in the words of Gabby's father, there will be no justice for Gabby Petito. As you can imagine, and it's clearly by my fire over this, there's so many loose ends in this case that the internet, all of us are still discussing, and a lot of it does revolve around Brian's parents, what they may have known, what they may have been involved in, what they covered up.

There's so many cell phone records that people have analyzed. There's cell phone records that showed that at 1.20 p.m. on August 29th, Brian called his mom, Roberta, and they talked for an hour. This was followed by a flurry of calls between Roberta and Chris and calls with an attorney. Well, also, okay, so the 29th, they believe this happened on the 27th that evening, probably because that was after the whole booth. That was her last sighting. So, yeah, so he called her two days later. But then what was he doing for two days?

It's very confusing. And a lot of people are questioning what did he tell them on these calls? Right. So there has been civil trials since with the Petito family, suing the laundry family. And a lot of people question, like, what did he tell you on the call? How did you not question where Gabby was or what happened to her? and in a deposition I read, Brian's father, Chris, offered some insight. He said that on a call with Brian after the murder, Brian had mumbled, quote, Gabby's gone.

Gabby's gone. But he said at the time he had no idea what that meant, and they didn't really question him further. But it was followed by a flurry of calls to an attorney. He said on the call, Gabby's gone. Get me a lawyer. So, and the parents didn't ask any questions. My, it's just, I keep thinking about my parents here because it's the only, I guess, point of reference I have. Never.

Oh my God. Why do you need a lawyer? Why do you need a lawyer? What do you need a lawyer? Like, because that's expensive, too, to get a lawyer. I mean, they wired the lawyer immediately $25,000. You're going to wire a lawyer $25,000 without knowing what it's for? But this goes back to what I was saying about this family never being able to take accountability for anything.

Even the dad's like, well, but Brian said, get a lawyer. And so I guess I had to. So I wired him $25,000 immediately. Like they're just all trying to pass the blame onto someone else without saying anyone's responsible for anything. Absolutely. The depositions are wild, wild to read. I read a lot of his mom, Roberta's deposition. And she's lying back and forth.

And these people are under oath. Right. Like they're just, they can't even keep their own stories straight. So it's clear like you're not going to ever get the truth from them either. And there's an even more damning revelation that comes to light when police find a letter from Roberta addressed to Brian that said, quote, burn after reading. And was this sent before or after? So it is the whole, like summer of 2021. It is conveniently not dated.

And when asked about it in the deposition, Roberta says, oh, slipped my mind. Didn't date it. Which, okay. So we'll never know. Sure. So in this letter, she shares a lot. And I just want to read some of the quotes from it because I just can't even summarize how crazy it is. And you guys just need to hear it word for word. Quote, I just want you to remember I will always love you. And I know you will always love me. You are my boy. Nothing can make me stop loving you. Nothing will or could ever divide us. No matter what we do or where we go or what we say. We will always love each other. quote, if you're in jail, I will bake a cake with a file in it. If you need to dispose of a body, I will show up with a shovel and garbage bags.

If you fly to the moon, I will be watching the skies for your reentry. If you say you hate my guts, I'll get new guts. Roberta's letter also included a Bible verse from Romans 838, which I'm not familiar with the Bible verses. So, Kaelan, can you pull it up for us? I pulled it up. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present or the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all of creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ our Lord. Kind of sounds like she was talking about herself, though. Yeah.

None of this will ever be able to separate us from each other. And my mom. Weird boy mom. I mean, like right here word for word, you are my boy. And she ends this letter by saying that nothing can get between us, us, not time, not miles, and miles and miles and miles. And this letter was in an envelope that said, burn after reading. And again, she addresses this in her deposition. And she said, I put burn after reading on it because it was an embarrassing letter. I didn't want people to know how embarrassing I was. Can you imagine getting a letter like that from either of your parents? I would immediately think my mom needs some assistance and help.

Yeah. Like that's... That's really intense to get from a parent. Very intense. I would do anything for you. I would get new guts if you hated my guts. I would help you bury a body. This letter doesn't necessarily mean that she broke the law in any way.

And to be perfectly clear, no one in the laundry family has ever been charged with a crime regarding to this case. The civil suit was settled privately out of court. So what happened there is undisclosed at this time. But even if Brian's parents didn't necessarily help Brian cover up a crime, like, they also didn't cooperate with authorities and they could have then kind of interfered with this whole investigation. I mean, just not even, I still go back to like not even responding to Gabby's mom.

Just it, it's just terrible for me. And as mentioned, there's a lot of bizarre theories still floating around in regards to all of this, especially that Brian isn't dead at all. Some people think he faked his death to avoid jail time, possibly with the help of his dentist uncle. I will say I read the autopsy report, and they did find a lot more than just teeth. They actually DNA tested multiple different bones. I believe one of them was a hip bone. They did DNA test the teeth to make sure it was also his teeth. And there's also rumors out there that his uncle, the dentist, was the one that identified his body through dental records.

That is not true. But still, the discussion goes on. And a lot of it then goes to why? Why? You know, obviously we had that incident in Moab. Brian flew home shortly after to empty a storage unit. Gabby was on her own. And actually on August 22nd, just five days before she died, Gabby had phoned an ex-boyfriend, and she had kind of seemingly needed support.

This is when Brian was emptying the storage unit. And she told him on this call that she planned to break up with Brian. So it's clear she was trying to get out. And you kind of have to wonder, like, did Brian kill her? because he knew she was edging towards freedom. And the most dangerous time for a victim can be when they attempt to leave or end an abusive relationship. Many domestic violence murder suicides occur when the victim tries to end the relationship. It's why a lot of times they say, don't end it.

Just leave. Like, get a go bag and discreetly leave. It is a really, really dangerous time. It's so scary. You can't reason with a person like Brian. His brain doesn't make sense. his decision making doesn't make sense. I think at least I can only speak to my experience of friends that I know that have been in abusive relationships, but it seems like there's this deep,

dark, unknowable place inside of those people. And so you just never know what's going to set them off. So it can be really hard to definitively say why someone did something. And looking back, Gabby's family has actually had a lot of time to also try to process this and think back on Gabby's relationship with Brian and were there any times that they should have intervened? And obviously, this is no one. one's fault, but Brian's. But they did say that they saw some warning signs that they wish they had recognized earlier. And they do want people to know about these warning signs so that they can maybe identify them within their own relationships. For starters, they noticed that Brian had a very, very dark edge that most people ignored or would kind of joke about or laugh off. But his art was

one thing that a lot of people found disturbing. He also had this like really weird fascination with weapons that people thought was a little dark. And when cops searched his room, they actually found brass knuckles, ammunition, and receipts for two different firearms. They also found a crossbow with a rifle scope. None of that can really, I mean, plenty of people have those kinds of things. Plenty of people draw dark art and stuff like that. It doesn't necessarily indicate that they're going to do anything horrible. It's really how he acted towards Gabby, that for Gabby's family is the real giveaway that something maybe was going to happen. There's a concept coined by Lenore Walker called The Cycle of Violence, and it's described as having three stages. So Lenore describes it as

having the tension building stage, the violent episode, and then the honeymoon stage. And this could be observed in Gabby and Brian's relationship, some people say. Brian was emotionally manipulative in ways that are pretty much textbook examples of abusive behavior, but he could also be really sweet. He would shower Gabby with love and affection. He would text her all these nice, wonderful, beautiful things to the point where Gabby would often say that she felt like she didn't deserve Brian. But when she wanted to do things without him, he would become extremely controlling. He actually pressured her to quit her job because he didn't like her coworkers. He said they were low lives. He said they were low lives. This guy who had not really done anything up until

that point. Yeah. Besides, finally decided to do something because Gabby had enough energy in her to like get both of them to do things. But he said that her co-workers were low lives. And he would make her feel guilty for leaving him alone. And once, when Gabby wanted to go out with her friend Rose, Brian stole her wallet and her identification so that she couldn't leave. He called her names often. But then he would apologize and he would do something huge and romantic just to win her back. And that is the classic cycle of tearing someone down and then love bombing them so they feel really guilty. And then you can just rinse and repeat after that. He also would really weaponize her guilt.

He would make Gabby apologize for things that weren't her fault. And you can see this throughout their trip. Anytime they're on camera, she's apologizing when she was in the restaurant. She's apologizing for Brian's behavior. She's apologizing to the police officers. That was something that he had conditioned her to do. These weren't just relationship problems. They were clear indicators of an escalating pattern of control that domestic violence experts recognize as being extremely dangerous.

And towards the end, it seems like Gabby started realizing that she needed to leave that this was never going to get better. Yeah, it's very clear. I think one thing too that this case really did highlight is the concept of self-defense. And this is a term that's formally been known as reactive abuse, but there's a term. a big push to kind of change it. And it's when you have an abuser who just pushes, pushes, pushes. And then finally the victim snaps and does something back or defends them to solve. And that's kind of seen in that Moab video. She then takes the blame and says, I hit him first. So then they think they're the abuser. So then that's why she was saying, oh, I'm the aggressor.

I'm the aggressor. But it's literally that. You're kind of put into a spot where you feel like that's your only option. Yeah. It's to fight back. Exactly. And I think, you know, she did kind of have an idea and was making a plan and told her ex that she was going to leave him. But a lot of people, you know, you might be listened out there and your alarm bells could be ringing. But a lot of people like these relationships sneak up on them. It's not like instant. It's not, you know, quick right off the bat. It sneaks up. And when you go through these cycles of like a honeymoon phase and everything's good and the love bombing, it's like when things are bad, you then rose-colored glasses look back to that. It can be so. so easy to get stuck in this cycle. And it, on average, takes people seven attempts to leave a relationship that's abusive or toxic. Wow. It's so difficult to do. One of my best friends was in an abusive relationship. She's out. She's married to this really lovely person. They have, like, a beautiful relationship, so she's okay. But we've spent a lot of time after she left that relationship kind of debriefing on it. And so obviously everyone's experience is very different,

but I just have hers to kind of go off of. But I remember her describing it as like being a frog in a boiling pot of water. You just don't feel it at first. Wow. And then eventually it gets so hot, but you put so much time into the relationship. So you also feel guilty about that. Or you remember, she would always say that he was so sweet in the first six months. Like the first six months were so good. And so she would say things like, I know we can get back to it. Like, I know that's where we can get back to. And that was intentional, right? Like he made it. So it was a really beautiful six months so that she was always going to think, well, it's my fault that we're not having this relationship because he's capable of it.

It's so, it's just devastating how it can sneak up on you like that. You don't even know you're in it by the time. It's like really, really bad. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I'm just going to plug that quiz on love is respect.org. Yes, that made me think of that quiz. Everyone should take it, no matter how great and happy you think your relationship is. See, make sure your relationship is healthy. Can never be too sure. And they asked like, I remember the questions being like, oh, when you want to go do something, do you feel like your partner makes you feel bad about it? It's just like it's a nice little checkup. Yeah, it's a nice little thing to take. Yeah, I think so too. There's another element of this case that I want to kind of touch on that does make it somewhat of an unforgettable case,

and that's just how captivated the internet was with this. It played out in real time on social media kind of right in front of all of our faces, and it showed just how citizen sleuths could really change the course of an investigation. But that kind of brings us, to where we're at today. Since Gabby's disappearance, her father Joe has really taken the platform that this tragedy has given him and his family and poured it back into highlighting other missing people cases.

Cases specifically, though, involving people of color who otherwise may not receive media attention. Joe is actually working on a show right now to highlight these cases. And this is all because during Gabby's case, Joe kept getting tagged in video after video after video on his personal socials about missing white woman syndrome. And so he really took it upon himself to learn what this was and dive into it. And he did see that this was a real issue and one that now he wants to try to

address. Well, also, he saw how much Gabby's case benefited from everyone knowing about it. Yeah. It really was a time where everyone came together and was able to search through their own footage, whatever, because everyone knew about it. And I think he just really wanted to make sure that other people are afforded that community when it comes to missing people. Absolutely. So the family has started the Gabby Petito Foundation. It's a nonprofit that strives to raise awareness of missing people and prevent domestic violence. And with this foundation, he's spent the last several years advocating for missing black and brown people through it. The foundation partners with families of missing black and brown people, as well as groups dedicated to raising awareness of these cases.

such as the Black and Missing Foundation. I know in one of our previous missing people of the week that we've highlighted, we did mention that the Gabby Petito Foundation was working with the family. And on that note, our missing person of the week is a case that Joe Petito has been really trying to amplify and has actually personally flown out to be involved in the search on. So our missing person of the week is Daniel Robinson, age 24, was an American geologist last seen leaving a job site in Buckeye, Arizona. And it was near the Sun Valley Parkway and Cactus road. And this was on June 23rd, 2021, around 9.45 a.m. He was seen in his 2017 blue-gray Jeep

Renegade, and he was headed west towards the desert. He was reported missing later that day by his father at around 7 p.m. Daniel's car was found on July 19th. And it was found in a ravine less than three miles from the job site. There's been a lot of search on the ground using aerial resources. Investigators have downloaded the crash data from the Jeep. And this is where Daniel's family and police kind of have differing opinions on all of this. Police have extracted the data and say that there's no foul play suspected. While Daniel's father is very vocal about how the data is kind of different to them. There's an 11-mile discrepancy. And their interpretation from what I'm seen online is that the airbags were deployed and then the car was still driven 11 miles. So in their

mind, it's looking like the car might have been placed there after. Weird. There's a lot going on with this case. It is very active. And as I mentioned, Joe Petito has gone out to actively search with the Robinson family. So still very ongoing. I have here that Robin's is described by investigators and family as being 5'8 African American, weighing around 165 pounds at the time of his disappearance. He is black hair and brown eyes and he is missing part of his right forearm, including his hand. If you have any information on Daniel's whereabouts, you are urged to call the Buckeye Police or you can submit a tip online via their website. We will make sure it's linked. If you would like to call and leave a tip, you can contact the Buckeye Police tip line at 6233.3.3.

349-6-4-11. That is all we have for this episode of Clues. This was a really big one to cover. It's one that's been in the news. I'm sure many people already knew this story, but we just wanted to go through it again today. And now we want to hear from you guys, thoughts, theories, feedback, anything we missed.

You can share it with us. We read through the comments, and that's what makes this community so special. At Crimehouse, we really value your support. Again, share your thoughts on social media and remember to rate, review, and follow to help others discover our show. And if you're hungry for even more content, we've got you covered. For more exclusive content, monthly bonus episodes, early access, and ad free listening.

Join our Crimehouse Plus community on Apple Podcasts. We will be back next week with another case to unravel. And until then, keep searching and we'll see you next time on clues. Bye, guys. Capture your favorite summer feeling with Pandora jewelry. Discover a collection inspired by the sunshine, freedom, and moments that make the season. unforgettable, from sun-kissed metals to personalized pieces, ready to be engraved with your summer mantra. Each design moves with you, from beach days to golden nights and every memory in

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