Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore - MURDERED: Chandra Levy

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

When 24-year-old intern Chandra Levy disappeared in Washington, D.C., her name became front-page news—and the truth got buried beneath the scandal. Congressman Gary Condit's silence fueled the media frenzy, but it was the evidence that told the real story. Morgan and Kaelyn unravel the flawed investigation, the discovery that changed everything, and the suspect who may have gotten away with murder. Clues is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t Miss out on all things Clues! YouTube: @CluesPod | @crimehousestudios Instagram: @cluespodcast | @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia Clues is hosted by Morgan Absher & Kaelyn Moore  Instagram: @morgsyabsher | @itskaelynmoore TikTok: @twohottakes | @heartstartspounding To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Dr. Hrini-Bot, host of Hidden History. Every Monday, I go where history gets uncomfortable. Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, and events that science still can't fully explain. Listen to and follow Hidden History, available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is Crime House. They know Shandra, and this is so unlike her. To the police, this starts looking like it's an orchestrated cover up. If Shandra did go to Rock Creek Park and didn't come back,

Chances are she died there. There's a bunch of ripped up clothing and a human skull. Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Clues. I'm Morgan Apshire. And I'm Kailen Moore. And today we are covering the case of Chandra Levy. In May of 2001, 24-year-old Chandra Levy vanished in Washington, D.C. without a trace. No witnesses, no clear leads.

Just a young woman who was a federal intern, gone. Her disappearance would not just uncover a tangle of mystery, but also a major political scandal, one that would grip the public for years. But behind the scandal was a much darker question. What really happened to Chandra Levy? More on this case and the clues that defined it right after a quick break. Hey, before we jump back into the show, let's take a quick break. But not just any break. This is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic, real facts, so let's take a minute to go over some of my favorites. Snapple Real Fact 964, illegal in the United Kingdom to handle salmon in suspicious circumstances. Snapple Real Fact 1013. It is illegal

to sing off-key in North Carolina. Snapple Real Fact 2033, Americans consume 150 million hot dogs on July 4th. Snapple Real Fact 705. Every ton of recycled paper saves about 17 trees. So grab a Snapple, take a second, and enjoy the moment. Because let's be honest, this might be their most refreshing part of your day. Snapple. Make your break more interesting. All right. Now let's get back to clues. Okay, Morgan. We're diving into a big one today. Yeah, this one has me spinning. I feel like after going through all this evidence, I'm kind of torn on what I think. So I'm a itching to get through it and really break down these clues with you. This is one where we're really going to be looking at the comments, I feel like. Oh my God. Yeah. Like I am spinning so much just from reading all the

research that I feel like I can't see the forest for the trees. So, that's me. Yeah, anyone who is watching this episode, listening to this episode, wherever you can write comments, I'm just so curious to hear what everyone thinks. Absolutely. I have been on Reddit, subreddit, after subreddit, after subreddit. I mean, there's so many people that are still wondering what happened and the way that, you know, science has changed and kind of shed light on newer things, you know, you just never

know. Yeah, totally. And I know our Cluminati, they were asking for. for cases that they weren't as familiar with. And this was one that I didn't know really anything about. I didn't know much. I remember a blip of it. Because, you know, this was back in, I was in first grade.

And I remember a little bit in the media about it. But then September 11th struck. And it was just like one of those times where it's like everything kind of got swept away by that. Yeah, of course. And everything that was going on. But it's like everyone can remember where they were on September 11th. Of course. that was such a defining moment. And so I remember kind of being around the same time.

That's so interesting. No, I was so like I hadn't heard about this really at all. So yeah. But there's been updates throughout the years. There's still stuff that can be done today. So I think we should get into it. Absolutely. So in May of 2001, a 24 year old girl named Shandra Levy had just finished her internship program in Washington, D.C. for an internship with the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Within the next two days, she was going to pack up her small apartment in the city and move back home to California. Chandra had taken this internship to fulfill a graduation requirement at USC, where she was getting her master's in the school of policy, planning, and development. And she was super smart, super hard working. It's hard to move across the country and basically start your life over for just an internship.

But that was something she wanted to do because she had her sights on the FBI or the CIA. She wanted to have like a high profile government job. She was such a hard worker and so academically driven. Yes. I saw that she graduated undergrad in three years, worked for the police office, like, in her town in Modesta, where she's from. Like, she started working there in high school and would wear her little, like, police junior badge to school in high school.

Like, she was so dedicated. No, she knew what she wanted and she was doing everything in her power to go get it. So she was taking this internship in D.C. But this day, Chandra was done with this internship. and so she was getting ready to travel back home. So on April 30th of 2001, she's in touch with her parents, Robert and Susan, and they're talking about booking a flight. She had just canceled her gym membership that day.

Again, she's like getting ready to leave. And she had plans to walk at her graduation on May 11th back in California at USC. She ended that night by sending her mom an email with like all these flight details of what flight she was thinking about taking. But then they don't really hear from her after that. She doesn't call them to. confirm her flight info. She doesn't arrive back home. Her parents don't hear from her for five days. And when they try to reach her, they can't. She doesn't pick up the phone. She's not answering emails.

So they end up calling the DC police and they report her missing. Officers are able to go over to her apartment for a wellness check. They end up gaining access to the apartment as well. And when they get inside, Chandra's not there. She's nowhere to be found. But when they get inside of her apartment, there's just a few weird things about the scene that they notice right away. For example, she left her wallet behind. And maybe you're like me, there's very few reasons that I would leave the apartment without my wallet. But that's not even the most concerning thing that they see. Because they're on the ground are Chandra's suitcases and they're open.

It looks like she was in the middle of packing for something, but never got the chance to finish. And they look around and everything else in the apartment, aside from those two things, kind of seems normal. There's no sign of forced entry, no sign of a struggle. There's not like blood or anything in the apartment. So the officers start thinking, well, she's an adult. It doesn't really look nefarious in here. Maybe she'll just come back on her own. Which is why one of them leaves their card and just writes a note for Chandra asking her to call when she does come back.

They're not very concerned. But when Robert and Susan, her parents hear this, their hearts drop because they know Chandra. And this is so unlike her. It's really unlike her to not contact them for five days. And they feel it in their gut that something is wrong. So they decide to take matters into their own hands. And Robert just starts making phone calls. He calls her job. He calls her internship. He calls the FBI. He calls hospitals around Washington, D.C., and no one knows where Chandra is. And so what are they supposed to do at that point? The cops aren't really looking for her. They don't seem concerned. Her internship is over. So no one she worked with has. any idea where she is. So her parents do kind of the only thing they can think of, and they start looking through her phone bills, hoping that that will give them any hint as to what happened. And that ends up holding a major clue. Yeah, our first clue in this case are these phone records. Luckily, Chandra was still on her parents' plan and so they were able to get access to this

bill pretty quickly. The phone bill showed a bunch of numbers that she had called recently, and there was one number in particular that she was dialing a lot. So her mom, Susan, gives it a try. It rings a few times and then goes to voicemail. And that's when Susan realizes this phone number belongs to the office of U.S. Congressman Gary Condit, which worries her because she knows Chandra had a pretty, let's just say, intimate relationship with Gary Condit. And when Susan sees that Gary's office is the last place her daughter called, her heart drops because she's learned some pretty scary things about the congressman recently. I know how you all feel about tangents, but we need a sidebar real quick on Giac. very Condit. In May of 2001, when Chandra goes missing, he's 53 years old and he's been in Congress for about 12 years. He's been married to his high school sweetheart Carolyn since he was 18 and they

have two kids together. Condit's a Democrat, but he represents a fairly conservative area, not afraid to go against his party, and that makes him appealing to a lot of his constituents. He's also a pretty big deal working closely with Vice President Cheney, and there's whispers that he could actually make a serious run for the presidency someday. And Chandra found something about him really appealing. She also thought that he looked like her celebrity crush Harrison Ford. I've seen pictures of him that is very generous of her, too have said. I will agree, but she had the love goggles on. Yeah. But Susan learned there was something very dark about Gary Condit. Apparently, just three weeks before Chandra disappeared, her mother, Susan, was talking to an old

family friend named Otis Thomas. And she can't help but brag about how great Chandra is doing in D.C. As he would as a proud parent. She says, not only is she crushing it. at her job, apparently she's become friends with a congressman. Well, when Otis hears this, he sort of does a double take. He says, hey, any chance that's Congressman Gary Condit, our rep Gary Condit? Susan doesn't know. Chandra hasn't really said anything. She's actually been somewhat secretive about her man, but Otis says if it is Condit, she needs to get away from him. Stat. Apparently, about seven years before, when Otis's daughter was 18 years old, She went to one of Condit's campaign rallies in Modesto.

Otis's daughter ended up meeting Gary, who again, still married at this time, but they hit it off. And it wasn't long before Gary and Otis's daughter were having an affair. At 18 years old. Very young. Every time I read that is just horrible. Very young. Otis didn't have a lot of details to share, but apparently Gary was super controlling. Like to the point where Otis's daughter was so scared of him after the relationship ended that she literally went into hiding.

Because he's one of the most powerful people in the country. We have all seen scandal. Yeah. That's all Susan needed to hear. As soon as she's done talking Otis, she calls Chandra. So when Susan asks, quote, hey, by any chance is your congressman friend, our local rep, Gary Condit? Chandra's like, yeah, how did you know? Susan, of course, tells Chandra what she just learned and asked her daughter to call off

whatever this relationship is between the two of them. Chandra doesn't want to hear it, though. She says she's a grown woman. She can make her own decisions about who she's going to date. And Susan actually does back off. She even promises to keep Chandra's secret saying she won't tell her father. But now with her missing and the repeat calls to Gary Condit's office, she's kind of got to tell her husband everything. And once Chandra's dad, Robert, hears about this, he pulls out the phone book and he finds Gary's home number in Modesto.

In the yellow pages, just as easy as that. Yeah. And he's going to call it. He has a bunch of. of questions. When he does, Gary's wife actually answers Carolyn. And Robert tells her the situation, sort of. He knows that this is a really tough line to walk, even though he's furious right now. He has the wherewithal to be like, listen, they're not going to talk to me if I just start making accusations. So he's pretty vague with his wife about what's going on. But basically he says he's

calling because his daughter is missing and he needs the congressman's help. And that actually makes sense because he is technically their representative. He would be the person to call in a situation like that. So Carolyn says, yes, of course, I'll pass on your message right away. She seems legitimately concerned. And she hangs up. And then a few minutes later, Robert's phone rings. And it's Gary Condit himself. And I have to say, again, he's furious in this moment, but he does a really good job of holding it together. He doesn't say anything about the affair. He doesn't make any accusations. He doesn't ask where his daughter is. He just tells Gary that. He just tells Gary that his daughter is missing and that his office was one of the last places she called.

Basically, he's like from one dad to another. Do you know anything? And Gary keeps it really close to the best. He doesn't say much. He says he doesn't really know Chandra that well. Like one time she asked him for career advice, but that was basically it. He's got zero idea where she is, but he promises he's going to make some calls to the police. Except Robert. Robert. and Susan don't really buy this story from Gary. But they also aren't going to push the issue further with him on the phone in that moment. Instead, after they hang up, they call the D.C. police and they talk to a detective named Ralph Durant and share their suspicions. And they know that this is a pretty wild story to tell the police. I mean, Gary Condent is a U.S. congressman after all.

But to Durant's credit, he does take them seriously. And the next day, May 7th, he calls Gary at his office and he asks. asks Gary to make a formal statement. And then the two of them meet on May 9th. And surprise, surprise, this time, Gary Condett's story does seem a little bit different. He says, well, actually, he first met Chandra in the fall of 2000, shortly after she moved to D.C. for this internship. And Chandra was helping a friend look for internships, and they gave Gary's office a call. He ended up giving them a tour.

And a picture they took that day becomes one that's like plastered all over the media. Yeah, it's pretty front and center. Yes. So he does admit to the police that he and Chandra got close after that. Whatever that means. He does not really go into detail on that. But he does say they were so close that she did end up spending the night at his place a few times. But he will not say that it was an affair.

He doesn't really want to give that information up. So he just says, quote, I don't think we need to go there and you can infer what you want from that. What does that mean? Yeah, you can infer what you want. I mean, that's a really important piece of this investigation. And he's just telling the police, use your imagination and see what you can figure out. I mean, I would assume something shady was going on based on that response. Especially when her aunt starts talking to police as well.

See, her aunt was someone, Shandra really confided in. This was the person she went to and just kind of shared everything. And so her aunt comes forward and tells police everything she's. Chandra told her about her man. While Chandra was trying to be really secretive about this, she did first say that he was high profile and it was best not to be seen together. But as time went on and, you know, she shared more with her aunt. She did accidentally let it slip who it was. And then, cat being out of the bag and all, she shared even more. She told her aunt that her man told her not to carry her identification on her when they went out. If they were riding in the elevator

at his condo and someone else got in, Chandra would have to get off at a different floor to pretend like they weren't together. Just a bunch of odd little things to ensure that they weren't caught. Something though that really jars me is that on April 29th, just two days before going missing,

she called her aunt and left a message on her answering machine. Quote, I have some really big news. Call me. She didn't sound upset. And there's phone records that she also called other people that day, including Condit. Again, just. super shady. And we don't know what that news was. We have no idea. So the police really start

feeling like something shady is going on. They don't know exactly what, but this is just starting to look a little weird. So you can't really arrest someone for having an affair. And if they're going to make any accusations against Gary, they have to be extremely confident in those accusations. So they end up getting a full search warrant for Shonda's apartment. And they go back over there on May 10th. It's been over a week since her parents last had contact with her. And the police turned the place over. Like their last visit, they feel like Chandra definitely was planning on coming back. She'd left not only her wallet, but they found her ID, her cell phone, an uncashed check.

There was just a bunch of stuff in there that seemed like she was coming back for it. But the question still remain. Where did she go? This episode is brought to you by Instacart. I have a four-month-old at home, which means I don't leave the house unless I absolutely have to. Going to the grocery store is a really big deal for me these days, which is why I love Instacart so much. I hate grocery shopping. I always forget things. I get overwhelmed. I have decision paralysis or I shop hungry and then I get way too much, which is why I love to use Instacart. Keep me out of the store.

I'm going to sit at home reading my book instead. And Summer is all about saying yes to last-minute plans, a friend's backyard barbecue, impromptu picnic, or just deciding to cook instead of ordering in. With Instacart, you don't have to choose between being spontaneous or being prepared. Order what you need in the morning and get a delivery in as fast as 30 minutes so you can keep your plans without adding a grocery run into the mix. And if you know you're going to be short on time the next day, you can order what you need in the morning and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. So you can keep whatever plans you have without adding a grocery run to the mix. Absolutely. Instacart brings convenience, quality, and ease right to your door so that you can focus on what matters most. Download the Instacart app now and get groceries

just how you like. This episode is brought to you by Quince. So lately, I feel like I've wanted to be more intentional about the stuff that I've been wearing every day. I want to lean into pieces that feel effortless and comfortable, but still look put together. That's the key. It just makes getting dressed simpler. And Quince is a go-to for all of those things. The fabrics feel elevated. The fits are very flattering and everything really works without having to overthink it. Yeah, these are pieces you're going to have in your closet for years to come. They stand the test of time. And I needed a closet refresh. So I've got my quince body suit on some of the softest, most flattering body suits. I know. I was just rubbing your arm. I love them. I felt how soft it was. I also love my linen dress

for summer. It's so lightweight. Breedable is cute with everything. I just put in a new order. I'm so excited. I'm getting the Bella stretch, relaxed, straight-leg jeans, and also the 100% organic cotton boyfriend crew sweater, which looks so soft and like slouchy. Perfect for recording. Perfect for recording. Refresh your every day with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com slash clues for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada to that's QI-N-C-E.com slash clues for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash clues. Which brings us to our next clue,

Shandra's answering machine. When officers go in and start investigating her apartment, they see that it's blinking. It's full, completely full, with 25 messages on it. They listen through them all, and two messages really stand out to them. Both were from May 3rd,

and they were both from the same man. Can you take a guess who they're from? Oh, I think I know who it was. Everyone out there's just screaming, we know who it is. Apparently, Condit was wondering where Shandra was. The first message was left at 11.45 a.m. that day. He said that he'd been busy the last few days and asked Shandra to call him back. Then at 6.30, Gary called again to check on her.

So now police are thinking, okay, he totally lied to us. You're a mentor, not that serious, but you're calling her at home again and again, trying to figure out where she is. Multiple times in the same day trying to figure out where she is. Clearly, the relationship is a bit more intimate. And she had called him after she was calling people saying she had big news. Like he was someone that she felt like she had to share big news with. I mean, she disclosed to her aunt what their favorite ice cream flavor they shared was. Yeah. What they would eat, how they would sneak out and he would be incognito. Like, she was sharing details that seemed like their relationship was substantial. And we're going to play this.

these calls for you guys, but I want to let you kind of see your thoughts on him before we go any further because I want to see what you think about his voice and things like that. Mm-hmm. About 630, I haven't heard from you. Maybe you're out of the country or something. Anyway, give me a call to pick up this message. Me, I'll run down on kind of what your schedule is. Things are looking pretty good for me today.

Anyway, bye. Okay, you heard the calls. It seems like he's genuinely worried to me. It does, yeah. It doesn't seem like someone who's, you know, calling, like we've had another case. to kind of give themselves an alibi or fake messages. But also he's a politician. And there's that.

His whole job is just sounding sincere. And there's that. Unfortunately, it is really hard to pin down any specifics about Shandra's disappearance. Because two crucial things go wrong with our investigation here. A little bit of our first botch. Investigators aren't able to access Shandra's laptop right away. The hard drive for this computer was actually corrupted. by a police sergeant who tried to access it.

And no, you guys, he was not a trained technician. And I've seen in some sources that they use the word corrupted, but he actually just deleted the whole search history. Yeah, exactly. So that is gone. There's no way to check her emails, her search history, no way to know what she was really looking at or any sense of when she even used her computer last.

The second thing is police also can't check the apartment complex as surveillance footage. They can't see when she came or left her apartment. They have no idea when she actually left. You see, by the time they went back to review this footage, it had already been wiped clean because the system re-records over itself every seven days. Yeah, it was when it was tapes and they would just have to re-record over everything. Yeah. I mean, even my modern security thing at my dad's condo only stays for two weeks. Yeah, wow. It goes quick. So they really have no idea when Chandra left or where she was going, if she was with anyone. Which is frustrating because they were already at her apartment. I know. They were there. They were there days after. Days before and

they would have been able to access it and see what was going on. It would have been there. But I mean, this really only leaves one big person of interest in this case, Gary Condett. So after they searched Chandra's apartment on May 10th, the D.C. police were now really treating this like a high priority case. And they start searching everywhere. They're going through her neighborhood, through alleys, vacant buildings in the area, even the dumpsters. They're just really trying to search everything. Doing their diligence. Yes, exactly.

They're using canines. They have helicopters. They're really pouring a lot of resources into this. But there is no sign of Chandra anywhere. And Robert and Susan really want to be sure that the investigation doesn't lose steam because when they do a big search and then they can't find her. Usually that's when they kind of start giving up. So to bring the case more into the public eye, they go on Good Morning America on May 14th. And then two days later, they fly to D.C. for some pretty high profile meetings.

They talked to the U.S. senators from California, the D.C. police superintendent of detectives. But the one person they don't talk to is Gary Condit. And at this point, Gary's connection to the case had been kept under wraps pretty tight. Most people did not know his involvement with Chandra. But that was all about to change. because the day the Leavis have those meetings, the Washington Post runs a story about Shandra's disappearance. And in that story, they don't say anything too damning about Gary,

but they do bring up the fact that he added $10,000 from his campaign treasury to the already $15,000 reward that the family offered for information that led to her return. And he says in the article, they have a quote from him that says, Shandra is a great person and a good friend, he said in a statement. We hope she is found safe and sound. And then another intern from Condit's office said that as far as she knew, Levy went to Condit's office only once in October for a brief casual meeting. And Condit could not be reached for comment yesterday. So people from that article kind of start coming to their own conclusions.

And his office gets flooded with phone calls of people asking if he was involved, if he was having an affair with her. It starts really putting him in the mix of this story. And his chief of staff starts denying everything, but to the police, this starts looking like it's an orchestrated cover up. And unfortunately for Gary, that Washington Post story completely blows up. And suddenly everyone is now interested in this case because it's not just the disappearance of a young woman. It is a scandal. It becomes this big political scandal. I wanted to make a note here that this is 2001. Like tabloid culture is everything in 2001.

They're trying to sell as many tabloids as they can. Like checking out at the grocery store, there were all these headlines about like, like, like Gary's involvement. And this starts getting picked up around the country, including in San Francisco, where a young woman, who in this story we're going to call Lisa, she sees this headline. And it starts bringing back some pretty painful memories for her because she also had an affair with Gary Conda in the past. But hers did not end well. Which brings us to another clue in this, the other women. After seeing all of these stories about Gary, Lisa says to herself, I have to tell the FBI what I know. she goes down to the nearest field office and spills everything. And here's what they learn.

Back in 1992, Lisa was a 22-year-old college student living in L.A. when she met Gary Condit and they started having an affair. When Lisa graduated in January 1994, Gary even offered her a job in his DC office and he asked her to move into his condo there while I guess his wife was still back in Modesto. Lisa said, of course, and that's when the love bombing seemed to kick into an even higher gear. Gary starts buying Lisa all of this expensive jewelry and she feels the need to get him these expensive watches in return. But on the other hand, Gary's also extremely controlling. She can't even talk to other men. She can't tell anyone about their relationship. They can't even go out in public together. The situation gets so overwhelming that by the spring of 1996, Lisa cuts Gary off

completely. And they don't see each other for a few years until Lisa agrees to go and get coffee with him in 1999. It's over a latte that she tells Gary she's married now. She's over him. And Gary is pissed. He tells her she'll get bored of her husband and one day come crawling back to him. And honestly, it really freaked Lisa out, especially when in May of 2001 she sees the news about Chandra Levy. About a week or two after Lisa says something, the FBI talked to a woman named Anne-Marie Smith, whose story also sounds a lot like Lisa's. She met Gary on a phone. flight in July of 2000, a few months before he started seeing Chandra, and Gary really turned on the charm, and Anne-Marie couldn't resist. But one day, she finds this long, curly brown hair in his

bathroom. She knows it isn't hers, but Anne-Marie tries to brush it off anyways. But on May 9th, right after the police asked to speak to Gary, she gets a really weird call from him. He says that he won't be able to talk for a while. And when the story about his affair with Chandra breaks just a few days later, it all clicks into place for her. Shandra Levy has long curly brown hair. So on June 1st, Anne-Marie sits down with the FBI, and she decides she's not going to cover for Gary. So she tells them everything. And when they ask her if she thinks he's capable of hurting Shandra, she says, honestly, I don't know. I'm not sure where Gary thought all of this was going to go. You know, as you mentioned, tabloid culture was alive and well. And just for listeners to note,

Like, this is shortly after Bill Clinton's affair, something that Gary Condit was very, very vocal about. Do you know what he was saying at the time about? I believe he was telling President Clinton to come clean. He put out a statement and demanded for Clinton to be truthful and transparent about the nature of their connection. Oh, my God. These people. Pot? Kettle?

Meat. Yes. Like, sir. I think, and same thing, too, of interns where it was interns. For Gary, just reading about his relationships with other women, too, it feels like a total control thing. It's really scary, the level of control. And, like, being intimidated by other younger men that these women might be dating. And, like, he seems very insecure and is using that insecurity to try and control them.

And it's really, it's just upsetting to read about. Very. Gary starts realizing around this time that this is not looking good for him at all. And he kind of really like doubles down on the I'm going to come clean and show that I have nothing to hide. So he sits down with police again on June 23rd. And even in this meeting, he still does not admit to being romantically involved with Chandra. And he repeats the same story that he said before that she was, quote, a constituent who became a friend. You know when constituents spend the night at your house all the time?

But he does offer the police something that helps him a little bit in this investigation. He gives them an alibi. And he does have a pretty solid one. The police think that Chandra went missing on May 1st. That was the last time anyone heard from her. But we know there was like a long stretch of time where no one saw her. But they do believe it was probably May 1st that she actually went missing. And not only was Gary's wife in town that day.

But his schedule was packed with meetings on Capitol Hill, including one with vice president. president Dick Cheney. And if we assume that Chandra did go missing on the first, it looks like Gary was too busy to be involved. He did have all these like double checked and confirmed meetings that entire day. But that just means he wasn't directly involved in her disappearance. That does not absolve him of her disappearance at all. So even with this alibi, police are still thinking that it's suspicious that he hasn't come out and said, yes, Chandra and I were sleeping together. At this point, basically the whole world knows, right? It's on Everly tablo but also the people close to Chandra heard it from her, basically herself.

And so the police are wondering, why is this guy just hiding all of this? Now is the time to come clean. And so a couple of weeks later, on July 10th, they get a warrant to search his apartment. And it's completely clean. There's nothing really suspicious in his apartment whatsoever. But a witness does come forward and tell the police that the same night just before the police showed up, they saw him throw a little box into a trash can. And it ended up being the police are able to go into the trash and retrieve this item.

It ends up being one of the fancy watches that Lisa, this other girl he was having an affair with, a watch that she got him. So the police, no, throughout this investigation, Gary is hiding at least one thing. He's hiding all of his affairs from them. They just aren't sure yet if he's hiding something else. And there's not a ton of other places for the police to search at this point. they just have to keep looking into Gary. That is until they get the call that they've recovered the data from Chandra's laptop. And that brings us to another clue. One of this week's partners is Peloton. There's a specific kind of joy and freedom that comes from a truly great workout,

that feeling where everything just clicks. Peloton is helping you unlock that feeling with the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. It's cross-training reimagined. Peloton IQ actually personalizes your journey by planning your workouts, tracking your progress, and even correcting your form in real time to help you unlock new versions of yourself. So let yourself run, lift, fail, try, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Treadplus at OnePeloton.com. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet.

Drivers who switch and save with Progressives save over $900 on average. They make it super simple. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with coverage options tailored to your choices. Plus, you'll see which discounts you may qualify for, like the online quote discount, or savings for paying in full. In fact, 99% of Progressive Auto customers earn at least one discount. See if you could save when you switch to Progressive. You'll feel good about making a savvy choice. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little extra cashback.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, National Average 12-month savings of 900 $146 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress.

Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture. when you tear up on that envelope, it's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. So once they get into this hard drive that, one of their own, corrupted, the police learn a lot about what Chandra was looking into and maybe shed light about where she could have gone.

So on the morning of May 1st, Chandra was searching quite a few things. She was looking up Gary Condent, going to his page, looking for information on him and his wife. She searched Baskin Robbins, was looking into the weather. But one thing stood out right away. The night before, she had looked up a place called Rock Creek Park. Went so far as to look up a map of the park and seemed like she was trying to really get an understanding of trails. And to give you guys a bit more information, like this is a 1700 acre recreation area in the middle of D.C. Like this is a huge park.

And there's a big creek that runs through it, hence the name. And it's got a ton of jogging pass, horse trails. There's even like a mansion on it, like this historical landmark. Really big, pretty park. But as pretty as it is, it can also be a little rough. It's dense and rocky. The water in the creek can get pretty high. So when detectives find these searches on her internet history, they're happy about the new lead.

But if Chandra did go to Rock Creek Park and didn't come back, chances are she died there. So they send all of their resources out there. They get this massive search together. and on July 25th they end up at a place called Grove 17 along Glover Road in the park. It's a pretty big team, 28 officers. They stand in one big line, shoulder to shoulder to make sure they really don't miss a single thing. And they're told to search 100 yards off Glover Road. They look all morning, but they don't find a single thing.

So that afternoon, they all get on a bus and head to a different part of the park. They are determined to keep looking for her. but neither Shandra or any evidence is found. And while all of this is happening, Gary Condit is struggling to save his reputation. The police are kind of starting to accept the reason he's acting so weird is primarily because he wants to protect his career and his personal life. But they aren't ready to clear him as a person of interest just yet. And as a last ditch effort to save his reputation, he agrees, which we've talked about this in cases before, He agrees to an interview with ABC's Connie Chung on August 23rd, which is something we talked about with Scott Peterson, like going on air to clear your name.

Unlike most of Connie's interviews, which were pre-taped, edited, this one is live. And it's right in the middle of prime time. Wow. Almost 24 million people tune in to hear what he has to say. That is Game of Thrones numbers. I literally got the chills at that. Like, I don't know what. People are invested in this story.

What was he thinking? And it's going to be live. So anything that happens is out there. I've watched this interview. It starts off okay. He is firm in his denial, that he has anything to do with Chandra's disappearance. He doesn't say anything about the affair. He does come off as genuine as wanting to help find where she is and being concerned about her.

But Connie Chung is a great interviewer. And she does not want to let him get away with anything. and she can tell that he's not being honest about the information he's coming forward with because she has all of these receipts on how many times Shandra had called him the day she disappeared, how many times he had called her. And he keeps saying things like, oh, I wasn't really in contact with her. Like she was a nice girl, but I didn't know her that well. And Connie's like, well, then why was she calling you on the day she disappeared?

Why did you call her two times afterwards? He's like, oh, I don't remember making those phone calls. She's like, well, I have the receipts right here on how many times you called her. You left voicemails for her. left these voicemails. And the more she pushes into him and will not accept the answers he's giving, the more he's sweating. And you can see his whole demeanor change in this interview. And he's just kind of this like shrunken shell of a man by the end. And it starts making him look really shady. This is kind of a career ending interview that he does. And it's honestly about to get worse for him too. This is not even the worst part of all this because even more information about Gary is about to come to. light and it's going to kind of be the nail in the coffin for him. So in mid-September, the U.S. attorney's office in D.C. gets this phone call. It's from a lawyer who represents an inmate at the Washington D.C. jail named Ramon Alvarez. And he has something he really wants to say

about the Chandra Levy case. Alvarez is friends with another inmate. This guy named Ingmar Guandike. And the two of them really got to bond while they were in jail together. Alvarez was awaiting sentencing for an armed sexual assault. And 19-year-old Guandiki had a man. had been convicted of attacking two women at Rock Creek Park, the same park Chandra was searching the night before she disappeared. And apparently Alvarez says there's more to Guandique's story. That's not the full extent of the crimes he was committing. According to Ramon Alvarez, Guantique had told him that he also had killed Chandra Levy. And Guantique claimed, at least according to Ramon, that Gary Condit paid him to do it.

Whoa. We talked about this at the beginning, but this is actually the point in the investigation where 9-11 happens. And every single resource in this country is dedicated to that. All the newspapers, all the journalists, all the police, everything, especially in D.C. Oh, my gosh. All of those resources turned towards the terrorist attacks. And this bombshell came out right after those attacks happened. So there weren't many people to take this tip seriously. But even though there's not a lot of resources to dedicate to this, they kind of can't ignore the accusation. that a U.S. congressman paid someone to kill his secret girlfriend. So some police reach out to the lawyer and ask for just a little bit more info. And this is what they learn. Apparently, Guandike said he was walking around his neighborhood in D.C. And all of a sudden, a car pulled up next to him. And the driver rolled down his window. And it was Gary Condit.

And he asked if Guantique would kill a woman in exchange for $25,000. Then he handed Guandigay a picture of Chandra and told him that she liked to go jogging in Rock Creek Park. And Guandiki says, yeah, I'll do it. And we can pause here because this story sounds totally far-fetched to me. The fact that a congressman would just drive up to a random person on the street and roll down his window and be like, do you want, would you kill someone for $25,000? Is outrageous to think.

Yeah. We have a few notes on Guantique. Like, it's not outrageous to say that maybe Guantique was on someone's radar as like a criminal that could be used for hire. did have like a criminal record at that point. He was working but had like a low paying job. So it wasn't unrealistic that maybe he needed money. He also was in a gang and was known to be in a gang. So people have suggested that it's not out of the question that someone within Gary Condit's circle knew about Guantique and suggested that Gary could hire him to kill a person for him. It does

seem absolutely wild though. It sounds outrageous. But as we've learned from some of the cases, we have covered, like sometimes reality is stranger than fiction. No, totally. And actually, the U.S. attorneys in D.C. do take this tip seriously. They have every chance to say that this is totally outrageous. And they're like, no, we are going to look into this. So they go and they speak with Guandique in jail, but he denies all of this, of course. So they end up scheduling polygraphs for both Ramon Alvarez, who informed them and Guantique. Alvarez is up first. And they ask him to two really important questions. One, did Guandike tell you he stabbed Chandra Levy? And two, did Guantique tell you he received $25,000 from a congressman for stabbing Chandra Levy? Alvarez

answers yes to both, and in both instances, he's found to be lying. In Guantique's polygraph, he's asked if he had anything to do with Chandra's disappearance. And his answer, he says no, is deemed, quote, not deceptive. To be fair, polygraphs have a lot of problems. They rely on physiological responses like heart rate and breathing. They basically operate by believing that when someone lies, they're stressed. So they measure if someone's stress responses are activated when questions are asked. And obviously there's a ton of problems with this because people can like breathe and make

themselves relax. People also just get stressed about taking a polygraph test and then all of their stress signals are going off and it looks like they're lying. I mean, we talked about this. They're not admissible in court. I was hoping you'd get more into the science of it because it is something that's like, I myself have asked, like, why are we having people take these if they are so flawed in a sense? They're still used a ton.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it is interesting. I mean, there's also the fact, too, that they asked these questions in English. And Guandique's first language is not English. So there's also just the translation issue of maybe he didn't know what he was. he was being asked and then his body's not going to respond. Yeah, respond with the same stress signals.

And also the delay. If you think about an English speaker asking this question, translator then hears it, translator then relays it. There's such a time delay. I feel like even that, like you're just kind of sitting there like you're going to respond differently than instantly directly being asked a question. I know. And they had the opportunity to get a translator and they still didn't.

They just asked them the questions in English. So that's interesting to me. Yeah. It's a little confusing as to why they did it that way. But in this case, the authorities don't press the issue. Like I said, they're really busy. And that means the investigation kind of goes back to square one. But after this, Condit's name is cleared, this was really the only, I guess, circumstantial evidence that Condit had some direct influence in her disappearance.

And like, it was deemed to be unusable. So his name is cleared. And now there are no suspects in this case anymore. On top of that, they also don't know where Chandra is. Months go by, there's no progress in the case. The horrors of 9-11 are still very much on the front page of every newspaper and using a lot of the resources that might have been able to go to this case. But Chandra's parents, Robert and Susan, are not giving up on this fight. And they actually end up getting this huge breakthrough in the case when they least expect it.

On May 22nd, 2002, a little over a year after Chandra disappeared, her parents appear on the Oprah Winfrey show to bring some attention back to the case. And that exact same morning, a guy goes for a walk in Rock Creek Park. He's on this path called the Western Ridge Trail, which travels along a steep ravine. And all of a sudden, he notices something down in the leaves. There's this flash of red. He walks down the hill to get a closer look. And he realizes that there's a bunch of ripped up clothing and a human skull. So on May 22nd, 2002 remains are found.

The man immediately calls the police who rush over and search the hillside, and they find bones pretty much scattered everywhere. They also find sunglasses, a USC t-shirt that was turned inside out, one running shoe, a pair of underwear, a pair of black leggings, a sports bra, and a cassette player. And they happen to have Shandra's dental records on file, thanks to her parents. And so when they run them against the remains, indeed, it is Shandra Levy. It seems pretty clear that she'd gone out for a jog the day she died. But now investigators are dealing with a couple of new questions, like how did she die? And why didn't they find the remains sooner? Especially since they had a search team combing this very same park.

In terms of the first question, it's really hard to know. The remains have been out there for so long at this point that they can't really determine a cause of death. There's no soft tissue, doesn't appear to be any DNA from the killer, no hard evidence. They actually didn't even find Chandra's own DNA on the close. That's just how bad the elements have treated this evidence. But there's one thing that gives detective some insight. The leggings found at the scene were actually knotted at the bottom. And if you're watching on YouTube, you will see a picture of this.

Again, go to our Instagram if you want to see it. It is very deliberately nodded. It's not you took off your legs and. It's like below the knee, someone tied them into knots. Yeah. And it is so, I cannot make sense of those leggings anytime I look at them. It is illogical to me. Investigators thought it looked like someone might have used these leggings to restrain

Chandra either by her wrists or ankles. And they considered this evidence that she had been sexually assaulted before she was murdered. But because it's been so long, like there's not much for them to go on here. But back to that second question, how did they miss her? You know, they were right there when they conducted this initial search. Well, it actually turns out there was a miscommunication with. the search guidelines. Remember how the search party was told to go 100 yards off the road? Yeah, they were actually supposed to go 100 yards off the road and all of the trails. This trail was right

by Grove 17, where they had searched on July 25th the year before. And the fact is even more tragic when you note Chandra Zermains were found just 79 yards off the trail. They likely would have found her. It's so heartbreaking. Just the fact that like there could have. have been so much evidence there. I mean, I imagine someone tying and knots, like, they're, you're going to leave DNA if you didn't wear gloves and just. Do you think there's any chance that someone else had found her body at a different point and tied the leggings after she had decomposed maybe? I wonder. I'm not sure. I, it feels like because the clothes were already, like inside out, like other things, like the shirt and whatever, that this was done at the same time.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I'm not sure. It's just so strange. I just really can't make heads or tails of it. So strange. And sadly, that is like, despite their best efforts and this search and these, you know, investigators do really seem to be doing their diligence. This is a pretty big botch in this one. Yeah.

So after finding Chandra's remains, even though there wasn't DNA on them, there wasn't a lot there that they could go off that pointed to a specific person. There kind of was a huge piece of this case that was put together by finding the remains. Shandra was found in Rock Creek Park in jogging clothes. And Guandike was currently in jail for attacking two women who were out jogging in Rock Creek Park. That's huge. So the police know that they have to look at Guantique more and they start digging into where he was around the time that she went missing. And it turns out that on May 1st, the day Chandra was believed to have gone missing, he missed work. Some journalists from the Washington Post actually learned that around the same time,

Guandike was spotted with a busted lip, a bloody blemish in his eye, and scratches on his throat. They also learned that the women who survived his attacks in the park had done so by fighting him off, and they were able to escape with their lives. So they're thinking maybe Chandra wasn't as lucky. But so much time had gone by, and like I said, there was nothing else at the crime scene that pointed to anyone. There was no DNA, no fingerprints, no hair, no clothing, nothing. So although it was highly suspect, it just wasn't enough to charge Guandique with Shandra's murder. And the case really goes cold after that. For six years, the case is cold.

But it doesn't mean that Shandra was forgotten. Journalists at the Washington Post kept investigating her case. They were still writing articles about it. And with more time and effort, they're actually able to learn a lot of new information. And they publish a story in July of 2008. over seven years after she disappeared. And it breaks the case wide open. So this 2008 Washington Post series on Schandler Levy adds some shocking new details to the case. The first one has to do with May 1st, the day that Shandra actually disappeared. You see, it actually turns out there's

another woman that went jogging in Rock Creek Park that day. And while she was on the trails, she noticed a strange guy following her. Thankfully, she managed to outrun him and nothing bad happened so she didn't report it you know we all do that we all do that maybe that was in my head i'm being dramatic like i can't think that everyone's following me exactly right but in 2003 she saw a picture of ingmar guandiki on tv and she realized then that that was the guy that chased her so she went to police and reported it only they never followed up with her it's a pretty big misstep again in this one That's another botch. But that's not the only thing the Washington Post uncovered.

The reporters also found out that on May 14th, the day that Guandique was actually arrested for an attack in Rock Creek Park, he was questioned by the park police. And they showed him a picture of Chandra Levy. They told him that she was missing and asked him if he had seen her. And Guandique actually said, yeah, he had seen her before on May 1st. He said he thought she was attractive, but that was it. The park police never relayed this information to the city police. Again, case after case, we have these people not communicating. I know it's always like the communicating between the different departments.

We got to get these guys talking. So all signs are really pointing to Guantique here. And even though he passed that polygraph test and there were some pretty big problems with it that we've talked about, police really start looking back at him. Yeah, they go and see him in prison after all of this. comes out. And once they step into his cell on September 8th, 2008, they immediately notice a couple weird things. First, he has some very distinctive tattoos, which made him easier to identify. One of the tattoos was of the devil. One was of Chuckie the doll from the Child's Play movies. Those are fine to have. But there was another one on his chest that really stuck out to the investigators.

And it was a picture of a naked woman with dark curly hair. And they think that this woman looks a lot like Chandra. One of the detectives asked Guantique if the tattoo was some sort of souvenir. And in response, he just laughed. He didn't really answer the question or say much else. I'll make a note here. I actually don't know if that question was asked in English or if it was asked in Spanish. So it could be that he just didn't know what they were saying. While he was being questioned, the detectives were still looking around his cell at just what he had in there. They actually end up finding a picture of Chandra that Guandike had cut out of a magazine. Even though Guantique wasn't really talking to police at that point, the detectives really know that they have to keep digging into him.

And they soon learned that he had talked to a lot of other people about this case. So sometime after that prison visit, investigators speak to someone who they described as, quote, a confession witness. This person tells detectives that Guandiki had bragged about killing a young woman with dark curly hair who was running alone on a wooded path. And then the police get in touch with one of Guandike's friends. They had exchanged a few letters a few years earlier, about five years earlier, which wasn't that long after Guantique became a person of interest in the Chandra Levy case. And Guantique in a letter said that he spent a lot of time in the park in Washington, D.C., and that he was responsible for killing a young woman.

And none of this really compares to the thing that they learned later on in 2009, because that's when they talked to an inmate. named Armando Morales. He's serving a 21-year sentence for federal drug and gun crimes. He had been cellmates with Guandique in the past. And the two of them were really close. Morales says that they were basically brothers. After a couple of years, Morales gets transferred to a different facility.

He says that this new environment really helped him get his act together. He got a life coach. He found God. He really turns himself around. And so one day when he's in prison, he sees some news coverage of Chandra's case on TV. and he decides kind of as this reformed man that he needs to get in touch with police. And he tells them that Guandiki bragged a lot about the women he attacked in Rock Creek Park. And he told Morales that he killed Chandra Levy specifically.

Apparently, Guandiki was really detailed with the story he was telling. And it seems like there was a reason that he wanted Morales to hear it. Because there were rumors that Guantique had sexually assaulted Chandra before he killed her. And rapists were not treated well in prison. So it was kind of like he wanted to clear his name, which is why he told Morales that he did not sexually assault Chandra. He only killed her. After hearing this, the detectives really think that Morales is telling the truth. It checks out with a lot of the other things they'd heard from other inmates.

Also helps that this is the second informant. We also have Alvarez way back. The first one. Way back. Right around the time of the case. So it does seem plausible. He could be coming clean to people he's close with. Mm-hmm. No, absolutely. Morales isn't asking for money in return for his testimony. You hear about this all the time with prison informants that they want to be released early. They want money. They want better treatment in prison. It didn't really seem like he was asking for anything for this testimony. It seemed like he just wanted to do the right thing. He said now he's a follower of Christ and this was the right thing to do. So detectives start getting all of their evidence together. And in May of 2009, they charged Guandike with the murder of Chandra Levy. Finally, they have someone in custody.

city eight years later. And now the trial, because these things always take a while to get started, so it starts a year and a half after that in October of 2010, but there's a little bit of an issue with it. The prosecution still doesn't have any forensic evidence time Guandique to Chandra's murder. They ended up retesting Chandra's clothes from the park with newer DNA technology. They ended up finding some DNA on the clothes, but it did not match Guantique. The best thing they have is this circumstantial evidence, the testimony for Morales and the fact that he was seen in the park maybe that day. But shockingly, they end up bringing another witness to the stand. Gary Condit.

At this point, Gary is an ex-congressman. After his really bad interview with Connie Chung, he ended up losing his primary election and he retired to Arizona. And he's brought in because there was DNA from him found on Chandra. There was DNA of his and her underwear. which when you take everything into consideration that they were having an affair, it's not that weird that that was there. So the DNA expert takes a stand and kind of like clears that up for everyone. Despite this evidence, Gary still is not answering any questions about his affair with Chandra.

But it was almost like he was brought to this trial to clear his name even more, to prove to the jury and to prove to everyone that he was never implicated in any crimes relating to Shandra's disappearance and murder. It's like almost as a refresher, like, hey, even if you don't think it's a thing, this guy, Guandique, like, you can't turn around and look at Gary because we've proved that it wasn't him. Yeah, almost to lock up that reasonable doubt that there is someone else besides Guantique. Like, oh, it could have been Gary. It's not Gary. It's not Gary. Yes. Like, let's just say it now. We're bringing them to the stand and we're going to make sure it's clear. Like, Gary's not on trial here. They also bring two other people to the trial. And it's the two women that were attacked in the park by Guantique. And when they share their experiences, it really changes the

entire tone of the trial. One of the women who was attacked is named Christy, and she tells jurors that Guandique, this is how the attack happened. He grabbed her from behind and he held his left hand over her mouth and he held a knife at her cheek with his right hand. And then she said, I was trying to scream, no and help. Anything I could so that someone would hear me and come help. She said, I was going to struggle until I died if I couldn't get away from him. She was able to get away as we know. And then the other woman came forward and claimed that Guandike followed her on an isolated jogging trail and attacked her from behind. She said she only escaped because she remembered a self-defense move and lodged her fingers into Guantique's mouth. He ended up biting

her, but it freaked him out enough that he ran away. By the time that Morales took the stand and told the jury what Guantique said to him in prison, his fate was basically sealed. Everyone figured he had this M.O., and maybe he just attacked Chandra and she didn't survive. But then the defense gets to tell their side of the story and things start getting a little bit murky. Yeah, so the defense actually introduces some new details in this investigation that hadn't really been made public until now. You see, in the early mornings on the day Chandra disappeared, one of her neighbors actually heard screams coming from her apartment and called 911. It's not really clear whether officers actually responded or not, but this detail did raise the question of whether Chandra was killed in her apartment

and then her body was left in the park. They then revealed that when Susan and Robert Levy stopped hearing from their daughter, the police weren't their first call. They actually called Chandra's landlord. They asked him to go check on her and then have her call them back. Not being able to reach her, landlord actually ended up leaving a bunch of notes under her door. But when police actually went to go check her apartment during that first initial welfare check, they actually found that the notes were like further from the door, like not somewhere that they would be if you just slipped them in and under, kind of implying that like, hey, maybe someone else went in, maybe it was her. The notes got moved. Yeah, the notes like added more to the mystery of it. Yeah, in a way,

like it just, it was making it seem like someone could have entered her apartment before police went inside, which would back up the claim that Chandra was killed inside her apartment. And then brought to the park. Yeah. And so this is what the jury hears. They hear both sides. And the trial ends about a month later. The general public is not sure what's going to happen, what the verdict's going to be. A lot of folks actually expected that the jury would be hung. Even the lawyers thought that the jury would be hung. And it takes the jury three and a half days to make a decision. That's a long time for a jury to deliberate. Yeah. And in the end, they find Guantique guilty. He is sentenced to 60 years in prison, and it seems like Chandra's family can finally start to move on. But then, in 2016,

Guandique's lawyers actually file an appeal for his conviction, all because they learned some kind of shocking new information about his case. So it turns out, at least according to some, Armando Morales, the informant, wasn't as reliable as he seemed. They said that he had acted as an informant before, which there's a million different reasons to do that. But it means that he may have come forward with that information just to get his sentence reduced after all. And then one of his friends comes forward and says that Morales actually confessed to her that he had lied about Guantique's confession and that she had caught it on tape. But the circumstances in which she got this on tape are really sketchy. She said that one day she got a bad vibe from him so she started

recording their conversation, not on an iPhone or anything, but she had like an actual recording device on her, which to a lot of people seem suspicious. It kind of seemed like maybe they planned to get this stuff on tape. But in her recording, she said that Morales says out loud that he lied about Guantique confessing to him and that he was doing it so that he could get a reduced sentence or whatever. But when she turns in this tape, it's seven hours long and nowhere on the tape does he confess that this was a lie, that he was lying about Guantique's confession. And she says it's because it was on a different tape.

and she just doesn't have access to it anymore. Convenient. But no one got that actual confession. But what they do decide based on this tape, from my understanding, they hear Morales's voice. And this is a quote that I have from a defense lawyer. This guy referring to Morales said he was now reformed. One of Christ's apostles, said Bernard S. Grimm, a Washington defense lawyer, who watched Morales testify in 2010. Quote, but if you listen to him.

him on that tape. He's still the same gang thug he was years ago. It comes down to general credibility. That's what the Washington Post reported. So they just thought that he still sounded like a gang member and couldn't be trusted. They didn't think he sounded like, what do they call him, an apostle of Christ or whatever, which is really unfortunate because they didn't actually have the confession. They just had the tone of his voice. And it still is so explosive, it actually awards Guantique a brand new trial, which, This is all so wild to me because if you look at who this informant in her own way, this person who recorded these tapes, if you look more into her and when this is all happening. So Guantique's team file for this appeal in 2016. This person who recorded these tapes was actually working as an actress.

And in 2016, she was on a CSI detective show, Criminals at Work. And in 2016, she was also on the show House of Cards. So maybe she was conflating the drama of this all and because it was also kind of like a high-stakes political thing. I'm not sure. I, you know, again, sometimes reality can be stranger than fiction. Like, I don't know. I don't want to imply a lot. Like, I have my thoughts. I'm like, was this a career move? I just, I find it convenient that she had hours of recordings and yet the confession that really mattered wasn't caught on tape. Exactly. But still, even with all of that in mind, prosecutors feel like they're not going to win the case when it's brought to trial again. And so they drop the entire thing. The only real punishment that Gwondike gets after this is in May of 2017 and he's deported back to El Salvador. Yeah, we don't really have much on Ingmar, Gwandae, after that. Presumably, he's still in El Salvador. But there's always the chance that since his charges were dropped, without prejudice. The double jeopardy law doesn't really apply so he could be charged again. But there's a lot of things that would have to happen for that to even occur. He'd have to be found, extradited back to the U.S. There's just a lot there. And honestly, it doesn't seem very likely.

I know. And it's really unfortunate because Chandra's father did believe it was Guandie K. It seems like her mother wasn't as convinced. I think she went on record after he was. was recused of all this and said, like, oh, I never really felt like it was him or I didn't want us to get the wrong guy. Yeah, I know. I read an article. I'm just going to like pull it up for all of us so you guys can hear a quote from her parents. So the interviewer actually does ask, what are your thoughts on Gwen D.K? And her dad goes, he claimed he was innocent, but I doubt it. Her mom responds after, I don't know. A lot of things I wonder, I'm different from my husband. Wow. Yeah. So by the sounds of it, they're both kind of unclear, even themselves,

on what happened. Yeah. And this is really one of those cases that just doesn't have any clear-cut answers. A lot of people still bring up the fact that Gary Condit was shady. They want him to be looked into more. You have the former girlfriends that were afraid of him. But we still don't really have any indication that he hurt Chandra at all. And she hadn't told anyone about any of the controlling things that he had been doing with the other girlfriends. There's also not really any evidence that he did pay someone else to do it. It would be pretty easy to look into Guandique's bank statements and see if $25,000 appeared out of nowhere.

And it doesn't seem like that happened. Yeah, it is interesting. You know, the one thing that really just does seem odd in this all is like, Chandra's parents are like very, very set that like she was so aware of her surroundings. like she went out with Mace like she she knew she had to be careful and she wouldn't go out and jog by herself like they just found that to be so odd but you know you do have the fact that Gary would always say like don't bring your ID she left all of her stuff at home maybe she was in the habit of leaving her wallet behind or maybe she was she left that behind because she was going to go

meet him yeah I mean it's it's hard because like we're talking about like credibility and like oh this informant doesn't have credibility now because of these tapes but at the same time you have someone who despite having DNA found on chandra's underwear is still not admitting to an affair still like wrote a book went on dr phil again yeah and still is just not being forthcoming about the relationship right it's just it's very interesting i mean there's there's still so much that we could unpack with this and like all these implications and it's This is where I got kind of like lost in the weeds and down the rabbit hole of Reddit. Yeah. Did you learn more about Gary from like the stuff that you had looked into?

I feel like for me, I really fixated on Chandra's like last internet search history. She called her on and said, I have this big exciting news. A lot of your heads are going to jump to where I think mine is. I'm either, is she pregnant or is he going to leave his wife and she's excited to tell her? Like my mind goes there. And so when she's searching like that morning or that night before, like looking. for news on him and his wife, are you waiting for an announcement that they're getting divorced? Right. You know, she told her aunt, she wanted to marry him. She was going to live in secret for five years and then marry him and have babies. And like, she saw a life with him. Yeah. There was one search that she had in her history about Baskin Robbins. Right. Yeah. She was looking up Baskin Robbins.

Gary actually ends up when he retires, he ends up investing in opening up Baskin-Robbins shops. Really? What is that about? Like, why would, like, was she having this futuristic, like, search that morning? Like, he's going to leave his wife. Okay, waiting for the news. Okay, Baskin-Robbins, he talks about investing. Yeah, we're going to go on this trip.

Baskin-Robbins together. Yeah. Huh. Yeah, Baskin-Robbins and him didn't go well. He actually was ordered to pay Baskin-Robins back over $14. $46,000 because of like some issues with the franchise or something. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Not a lawyer, you guys. Yeah. But it's just, it's all so muddled for me. When you're going through the threads, like, do you get a sense of what the general public is now saying about like who they think was responsible for this? Yeah. The general public consensus on Reddit and in a lot of YouTube comments, they look back to Gary being involved in some way.

They do, you know, think murder for hire is what I'm gathering. From the comments. Allegedly. That's allegedly. It's really hard to look past the fact that Guandique was trying to kill women in Rock Creek Park. And then a woman around the same time is found dead in Rock Creek Park. That to me, there's no really like, I don't think she was killed in her apartment. I don't, like, I just feel like you can't really. It was so clean. It was so clean. There's no sign of a struggle. Like, he was coming up behind women. You didn't even see him coming when it happened. So I guess the only question would be was he paid to do it by a by Gary. Yeah. I mean, the fact that he had a picture of Chandra, a tattoo that resembled her. Maybe of her. I tried finding the picture of the tattoo online. I can't find it. If any of you sluice

out there can, please DM it to us on the Clues, podcast, Instagram. But, I mean, the signs are kind of there. His M.O. Yeah. The history. Yeah. The fact he saw her. I mean, it's a tough one. It doesn't really seem like this case is being actively investigated anymore. Part of me wonders. if it's because they knew they had the guy and then he was released and so what are they going to do now? Yeah. In the off chance that you watching or anyone you know has any information, you can reach out to the DC Metro Police actually by texting 50411. I also do want to note too, like the DNA that they found and they couldn't link to Guantique. A lot of the DNA experts think it was from contamination from someone too because it was just like such limited DNA and it was only a partial.

So, okay, got it. I don't want to be like, oh, well, DNA, it must be someone else. I don't know if that's the case because it likely was just contamination. But for now, it's time to close this case file. Reflecting on this story, I think the best thing to do is follow Robert and Susan Levy's lead. In the wake of Shandra's death, they have refused to use the word closure. They hate it, actually. Instead, they've remained focused on honoring her memory by being open and curious and living

life to the fullest. Yeah, that's all we have for today's episode of Clues. Thank you for helping us unravel the clues in this case. It's certainly one that keeps me up at night. Makes me a little nervous to go jogging by myself, if I'm being honest. But I want to hear from you guys now. What do you think? I mean, there's still so many threads that are left untied in this.

And I would just be so curious after, like we said, we're like, we've been reading about this so much. It's hard to see the forest for the trees. So I would just love to see how other people kind of make sense of all of this. Absolutely. Your thoughts, theories, feedback, all of that is really. what makes this community so special. For more exclusive content, monthly bonus episodes,

early access, and ad-free listening, join our Crimehouse Plus community on Apple Podcasts. All right, we will be back next week with another case to unravel, and until then, keep searching, and we will see you next time on Clues. Bye, guys. Bye.

Capture your favorite summer feeling with Pandora jewelry. Discover a collection inspired by the sunshine, freedom, and moments that make the season unforgettable. From sun-kissed metals to personalize. pieces, ready to be engraved with your summer mantra. Each design moves with you, from beach days to golden nights and every memory in between. Shop Pandora Jewelry's new summer collection, in store or online at Pandora.net and let your summer unfold. I'm Dr. Herney Bot, host of Hidden History. Every Monday, I go where history gets uncomfortable,

banner civilizations, doomsday prophecies, and events that science still can't fully explain. Follow Hidden History Now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.