Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore - MURDERED: Mary Ann Clibbery

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Just days before Christmas, Mary Ann Clibbery was murdered inside the cabinetry showroom she helped build from the ground up. With no forced entry and staged signs of a robbery, suspicion turned inward—and a bag found near a bridge would blow the case wide open. Clues is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t Miss out on all things Clues! YouTube: @CluesPod | @crimehousestudios Instagram: @cluespodcast | @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia Clues is hosted by Morgan Absher & Kaelyn Moore  Instagram: @morgsyabsher | @itskaelynmoore TikTok: @twohottakes | @heartstartspounding To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Dr. Khrini-Bot, host of Hidden History. Every Monday, I go where history gets uncomfortable. Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, and events that science still can't fully explain. Listen to and follow Hidden History, available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is Crime House. This blew my mind. Like, my jaw dropped when I read this. And then I thought, they're going to think I did it.

That's quite the little hole. Poisoners often are repeat offenders. Hi friends, welcome to Clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases. And these aren't just ordinary cases. They're complex puzzles where forensic science, investigative techniques, and sheer grit collide in order to uncover the truth and deliver justice. I'm Kayla Moore, and I'll be piecing together the timelines and bringing the history to break down the facts of these cases. And I'm your internet sleuth, Morgan Absher. I'll be diving into theories and pulling out the threads that may or may not,

add up. Each week on Clues, we'll explore how the smallest pieces of evidence, like a microscopic fiber, a partial fingerprint, or even a single strand of hair could lead to groundbreaking discoveries and might even bring long-awaited justice. These clues shine a light on the stories that have been waiting, sometimes for decades, to finally be heard. So join us as we uncover the breakthroughs, the heartbreak, and the relentless pursuit of answers behind these unforgettable investigations. And clues is a part of Crime House, and at Crime House, we really value your support. So please share your thoughts on social media and remember to rate, review, and follow clues to help others discover the show.

For bonus episodes, early access, and ad free listening, join our Crimehouse Plus community on Apple Podcasts. Just days before Christmas, Mary Ann Clibbery was found brutally murdered inside her shop in a quiet Illinois town. It was a horrific scene, and nothing about it made sense. There was no sign of forced entry, no clear motive, but the truth didn't stay hidden for very long. We'll get into it right after this quick break. This episode is brought to you by Grooons.

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And Groon's ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. If you're ready to try it for yourself, save up to 52% off with code clues at grooens.co. That's Clues at g-r-un-s-dot-C-O. Hey, before we jump back into the show, let's take a quick break. But not just any break, this is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic real facts, so let's take a minute to go over some of my favorites. Snapple Real Fact, 964,

it is illegal in the United Kingdom to handle salmon in suspicious circumstances. Snapple Real Fact 1013, it is illegal to sing off-key in North Carolina. Snapple Real Fact 2033. Americans consume 150 million hot dogs on July 4th. Snapple Real Fact 705. Every ton of recycled paper saves about 17 trees. So grab a Snapple, take a second, and enjoy the moment.

Because let's be honest, this might be their most refreshing part of your day. Snapple. Make your break more interesting. All right, now let's get back to Clues. Okay, Morgan, before we jump into this episode, what's been going on in your life? Not much, just trying to lay low, relax, clean my house. I'm like in my spring cleaning era. Oh, nice. It is that time of year. That is that time of year. Yeah. Yeah, we're hanging out this weekend. We're going to a true crime podcast live show together.

I know. Maybe getting some inspiration for our own. I've never seen a true crime podcast live. Oh, I have. Okay. I've been to a few. I'm really excited. No, me too. Me too. It's really fun to. to follow a case in real time, like with the people as they're telling it. But you've done a lot of touring yourself. I've done some live shows. You've done a lot of live shows. You've done a lot of live shows. You've done maybe the most live shows of any podcast I've ever heard of doing. It was a busy year. Yeah, how did you do last year? I did total. I think within a year span, I think it was 38. That's almost one a week. It was a lot. We broke it up a little bit,

luckily, and a lot of them were double-hatters. But live shows are really full. fun, getting to meet the listeners. Did you have a favorite place that you did a live show? Oh my gosh, New York got rowdy Seattle and Portland. Ooh. Super rowdy crews there. So there's so much fun. Every show is so different.

So that's a perk. Yeah, because the crowd's always different. You're getting different reactions. I love that. That's really fun. Super excited for this weekend, but shall we get into this case today? Yeah, let's dig into this one. So we are opening the case file for the murder of Mary Ann Clibery.

So on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, Mary Ann was found dead in Love's Park, Illinois, a suburb of Rockford, at Al Zulow Remodeling Specialists. A little bit about Marianne. Marianne Romaine was born on May 21, 1935. She was one of five children from a poor family. She was born in the Chicago Projects and then moved to Arkansas, but then moved back to Illinois, to outside of Rockford specifically. and when she moved back, she actually moved to a house that had no hot water. According to one source I found, Marian was married twice and had five children. At least one of her husbands had left her widowed, but it's actually not clear whether

she was divorced or the other one had passed away. And by 2004, when this happened, Marian had been dating a man named Gene Sundin. They'd been together for 15 years, and in one interview I found, Jean described Marianne as his life, his love. They were clearly very attached and happy. Yeah. Marianne had been working at Al Zulow's since 1959, so over 45 years. She actually started out at the company as doing like almost Vanna White commercials and pointing to the cabinetry.

The videos were really cool. And in 1999, 40 years after she started working there, the original owner Al Zulo retired. And he gave the business to two people. Mary Ann and her co-worker George Hansen, who then became business partners. Marianne was the CFO. She was in charge of all the company's accounting and financial records. There are some sources that say she was just such a good boss. Like she would front employees, their salaries up front out of her own pocket to make sure they were okay. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then you have George who was in charge of sales. And the two of them were well known locally for their TV ads. So before we really jump into this case, just a quick reminder.

If you're watching on YouTube, you'll see some photos that are going to help you visualize a couple different elements in this case. But if you're just listening, you can find the same photos on our social media, and that's at Clues Podcast on Instagram. So in late November or early December of 2004, Marian Clibbery decided that she was almost ready to retire. She was experiencing some health issues. Some people said, like sleepiness and sickness. at work. This was usually after drinking or eating. And we also know, though, that Marianne, like, absolutely loved this company she worked at. She would send out Christmas cards to a lot of the suppliers who worked with Al Zulos every holiday season. She, like, went above and beyond

with everything. But then on Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, at 7.30 in the morning, Marianne Clibbery's body was found by Marianne's business partner, George Hansen, and another Al Zulow's employee named Randy Baxter. She was laying in the back hallway of the showroom, and she had been beaten with at least three severe blows to the back of her head. The office was completely sprayed in her blood, and her purse was taken, and some of the drawers around her were rummaged through, but nothing else of value was really taken from the crime scene.

And that's interesting, and makes sense why investigators then might have suspected that the robbery could be staged. Yes. So presumably George and Randy called the police right away because a few minutes before 8 a.m., George calls Marianne's boyfriend, Jean, and he tells him that Marianne is dead and there's blood everywhere and that the cops had arrived. An autopsy would go on to determine that Marian did die from the head injuries as a result of a beating or a bludgeoning, and the coroner estimated that her body was actually dead in the office overnight. And unsure if this was really a robbery, like you were saying, authorities wondered if an Al-Zulu employee or customer could have committed the crime. And it seems like whoever did this would have been somewhat familiar with the office. Yeah, and no sign of forced entry.

So one would assume employee with access. Yeah. Upon discovering Marianne, police really honed in on the blood spatter pattern. This pattern was found in the office, and it showed that there was. fresh blood on top of older coagulated blood, which meant that Marianne was attacked not once, but twice. With some time in between these attacks, prosecutors speculated that after the killer attacked Marian, they might have noticed that she was still alive so that they came back and attacked her again. Both times her head was beaten with a hammer. If this was a robbery,

she probably wouldn't have been attacked twice and so viciously. So police did have some initial suspects. They immediately focused on a recently fired employee named Kevin Doyle. Not only did Kevin notably not like Marianne, he also still had keys to the office. According to Marianne's brother, Lou Romaine, Kevin Doyle was fired under great stress, and it did appear like he was having some kind of nervous breakdown. When Kevin was questioned, he gave police the alibi that he had been home sick that night. But no one else could corroborate this. No, roommates, no family, no friends. So it's kind of a convenient answer they felt. And get this, on Thursday, December 23rd, the day after, Kevin Doyle actually shows up to try to offer the

Klibery family help. He said, I can save the business by returning to work for you guys. Don't worry, which immediately seems suspicious. I mean, as we talked about in our very first episode, sometimes criminals do return to the scene of the crime. Right, and want to interact with law enforcement and be a part of the investigation. Yes. Be helpful. Right. But around this time, a tip comes in from an unnamed citizen that changes the investigation.

The morning after Marianne's murder, someone sees a black plastic garbage bag on the ice under the Roscoe Road bridge. And it looks like it had been thrown over the bridge in an attempt to get it into the river, but it had missed the water and landed on a sheet of ice. And just for perspective, this is about nine or ten miles from Al-Zulos, but they didn't immediately connect it. And one reason for that is that about a week earlier, a garbage bag was found in the same town with a deceased infant inside of it. So they weren't really sure what was happening. They just could see another bag. And just so I don't leave everyone on a cliffhanger with that, it was found later that the baby was murdered by its mother. So authorities block traffic on the bridge

and retrieve this bag from the ice. Firefighters actually use a ladder truck to lift the bag from the ice and then bring it upon the bridge. In the bag, they discover Marianne's purse, containing her ID, a bloody hammer,

bloody cardigan, and bloody black leather gloves. The items are then sent to a crime lab for processing. It's clear that whoever discarded Marianne's bag attempted to throw it in the river to get rid of it. But, uh, missed. by a little bit. Though we can't confirm if any money had been taken from her wallet. Again,

it could have been taken to stage an appearance of a robbery, but it's unclear. Looking into the items in the bag a little bit more, the gloves and the sweater, those are going to become one of our next big clues. There was blood found on both of these items. Based on testing, the blood on the gloves and the yellow cardigan sweater was determined to be Marianne's. The blood splatter on the sweater was along the right sleeve, which would correspond to a right-handed person hitting her from behind. The collar of the sweater was swabbed to look for skin cells. There were a few different DNA profiles that this came back with. Marianne, Al Zulo, the original owner, and George Hanson. And something to note here is that everyone kind of knew that this sweater was a community

sweater and it was kind of accessible to a lot of people in the office. Yeah, so it made sense that all of their DNA was on it. It's not really something that like really tipped the police off as to what happened. Exactly. But there were more items in that bag, as we know. Inside of the bag was also a hammer. Scientists analyzed the plastic bag and the hammer for fingerprints. They were placed in a sealed chamber filled with a chemical compound that's actually found in super glue. Basically, the fumes of that chemical stick to oils left by fingerprints. Then the bag and hammer were processed with fingerprint powder, a fine black powder, which was dusted all over the surfaces. This power. This power.

adheres to the chemical compound to make the fingerprints more visible. From this, they discovered three distinct fingerprints and one palm print on the bag. Can you guess who they belong to? I think I know. Okay. They belonged to George Hanson. Yeah. George's fingerprints were not found on the hammer, though.

And if the bag was taken from the office, it could make sense that his fingerprints got on the bag somehow. Yeah, so of course there's no fingerprints that were found on the actual murder weapon, which would have been the thing that basically told police who did it. Yeah, so no definitive answers yet, even with these big clues. This episode is brought to you by Quince. So lately, I feel like I've wanted to be more intentional about the stuff that I've been wearing every day. I want to lean into pieces that feel effortless and comfortable, but still look put together. That's the key. It just makes getting dressed simpler.

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the night of the murder. Authorities also received a tip that the white SUV had vanity license plates that read, quote, Zulo 51. A car matching that description with the Zulu Vanity Plate belongs to Marianne's business partner, George Hanson. The idea of committing a crime using your car when you have vanity plates. Vanity plates. It's audacious. Come on George. So based on all of this evidence, the police started to suspect George.

And it gets worse when Marianne's boyfriend, Jean, comes forward. with some more information. He admits that Mary Ann had confessed to him before she died that George was involved in the disappearance of money from the company and that she actually feared for her safety. I mean, everything's starting to point towards George. Yeah. And the fact that she felt unsafe. Right.

So let's talk about who George Hanson was. George was born February 12, 1941. At the end of 2004, when Marianne was murdered, he was 63 years old. He was originally from Wisconsin, but moved to Rockford, Illinois in the 1960s, and George was married with children. According to his former employee, Raymond Beardsley, George had a temper and became unglued under stress. Another former employee, Randy Baxter, the one who was actually with George when they found Marion on December 22nd, said this about George. Quote, he likes to stay in control. He drinks decaffeinated coffee, so it seems like, some employees did witness George having outbursts. Although some sources I saw did say that Marian and George

like to keep any business conflicts away from employees. Totally. George is often described as flashy and outgoing a salesman type. And none of that necessarily points to why George would have wanted Mary Ann Clibbery dead. But remember how earlier I did say something about Marianne had recently sent out Christmas cards to a lot of the suppliers that worked with Al Zulow. Yeah. Well, According to Marianne's boyfriend, Jean's son, Dean, a couple of those suppliers actually sent the cards back to Mary, and they included angry notes with them. And these notes all said that they hadn't been paid. And when Marianne gets those notes back, she's completely surprised. Blindsided.

Absolutely blindsided. Because she's the CFO of the company. So she does what any CFO would do. And she starts looking through the company's internal records, because what do you mean? none of these suppliers have been paid. And the records show that the payments had been made. But she got enough, like, independent letters back to her that clearly they hadn't. So something was still very much not adding up. So at this point, Marianne does some amateur forensic accounting. And this is where she discovers that George had been stealing from the company by collecting

payments from customers and depositing that money in his own account. Marianne comes to the conclusion that George had stolen up to $100,000 from Al Zulos. This would be around $170k in today's money. And upon digging in even further, George also seems to have a fraudulent side business, where he'll charge building supplies through Al Zulos, but then use them for his own personal projects, essentially getting these supplies for free. Based on all of what Marianne discovers, Al Zulos appears. to be in danger of bankruptcy, which must have been a complete shock to her, who until that point,

thought the business was doing really well. How long do people think they can get away with that for? I mean, you're not. Because obviously everything's going to tip. People have to get paid. And when you have these suppliers that aren't happy, I mean. And aren't getting paid. Also, it's a lot of money to write off as an accounting error or, oops, that one I accidentally deposited.

It's $100,000. It's $100,000. Yeah. And something to note here is that investigators also discover that there were life insurance policies on both Marianne and George. The policies were valued at $150,000 and this isn't unusual for business partners, but this did mean that her death would lead to a massive payout for him. That amount of money is equivalent to over a quarter million dollars today. So we put all this together. George's financial crimes and the life insurance policy. that he was set to benefit from, this is our third clue. Ultimately, one of the main clues in this case was found by Marianne herself when she discovered that George was embezzling money from their business. This gave him a very clear motive. Yeah, and it was also around this time that it came to light that, again, earlier in this episode,

I was saying that Marianne wasn't really feeling well towards the end of her career when she was thinking about retiring. Well, she actually went to the doctor in mid-December, and she brought up the fact that she thought she might have been. and being poisoned. Wow. And not only how she said that to the doctor, but she also said that to her boyfriend, Gene, saying that one time she found pink stuff

in the coffee that George had made for her. So Marianne actually wanted to have her coffee mug analyzed before her death, and she even told Jean that if anything happened to her, she wanted to have that looked into. She knew. She know. And Marianne's intuition was right. Coffee mug did get analyzed,

and the toxicology report found that there were of Zolpidem. It's a generic name for Ambien, a sleep medication, which would make sense why Marianne was actually falling asleep at work in the afternoons. It's unclear if the medicine was found in her blood from a toxicology report during her autopsy. I couldn't find a source that says anything either way. But the finding of the Zolpidem explained why Marianne told her boyfriend and doctor that she'd been experiencing the sudden illness and sleepiness at work and why she was concerned about her health. I mean, employees came forward after and they did report Marion would fall asleep in the after eating or drinking. So everything started to click into place here. But where did the Zolpidam

come from? So investigators actually were able to trace this back to George Hansen's sister, who signed a statement saying she provided George with the pills each month, presumably from her own prescription. One source I saw, George actually paid her $25 a month for them. And while Marian wasn't killed from the sleeping meds, the secret drugging establishes a pattern of harm from George. Marianne's boyfriend, Jean, also reported that she confronted George about some of the missing money, and George admitted to stealing $7,000. And she made plans to confront him about the rest of it on December 21st. So let's go back to Tuesday, December 21st.

In the afternoon or early evening, after the other employees had gone, Marianne confronted George about his embezzlement. The prosecution theorized that Mary Ann gave George two options. He could either pay the money back or she was going to turn him into the police. Sometime that night, that's when Marianne was attacked and killed in the office. And on December 22nd, when George Hanson was asked for his alibi, he said that he got drinks with his wife. And then he picked up his granddaughter from driving school and went with her to a tanning salon. So that alibi was only partly true.

He did go to a tanning salon, but it turns out he went after he committed the murder. Yeah, I clearly wanted people to see him, though. He was going to a lot of public places. Set up the alibi, yeah, absolutely. Really tried to think it through a little bit. Make sure he was accounted for. Yes. So around 6 p.m. on December 23rd, police followed George from his home to Crox Pub,

and they arrested him while he was sitting alone playing video poker. Loves Park detective Lori DePaw, who placed him under arrest, said he didn't say a thing. He stood up. We took him outside. He showed no emotion. And another source reported, when the defendant was placed under arrest, he told the officer that he took the hammer, gloves, sweater, and threw them over the bridge in Roscoe. And when George's SUV was searched, police found a large fishing lure and rope, kind of like he was going to go try and fish the bag off the ice and try to actually put it in the river, which was probably his original intention. But despite this, George claims he didn't murder Marianne.

Which is hard to believe, I think, for me and maybe a lot of you guys out there listening. I mean, if I were to discover someone, I wouldn't touch anything. I'd want the police to be able to gather evidence and find things. So it's a little suspicious that George would bag everything up himself and then throw over a bridge. Yeah, exactly. On Tuesday, December 28th, Marianne's funeral was held. It was held at St. Anthony's Catholic Church. hundreds attended, including community leaders and members of the various clubs

Mary Ann belonged to. Two days after Marion Clibbery's funeral on December 30th, a judge denies George Hanson Bail after a hearing. In the petition written by the Winnebago County Deputy State's attorney, the main evidence is that Marianne confronted George about stealing from the company, and he admitted it. Marianne said that she thought he was trying to poison her, and George admitted to police that he got rid of the weapon, purse, sweater, and gloves over the Roscoe Road Bridge. The deputy state's attorney also wrote that three key witnesses in the case,

Marianne's boyfriend and two Al-Zullo employees feared for their safety. She called George's killing of Mary Ann an act of desperation. She also said, quote, this is a man who was interested in murdering her to eliminate her as a potential witness against him. He has information on all of the witnesses. from the business, it would be a concern that he would become desperate again. And on January 28th, George pleads not guilty to the murder of Marianne Clivery. Of course.

The prosecution gave the following allegations against George. George killed Marianne because she was a potential witness against him if he were to ever be charged with embezzling money from their business. Marianne told her boyfriend that she confronted George about stealing and he admitted to her that he did steal $7,000. Mary Ann went to her doctor days before her death, worried that George was trying to poison her. A plastic bag was found atop the frozen rock river containing a bloody hammer, Marianne's purse, a sweater, and a pair of gloves. The gloves and sweater have been identified by Al Zulo employees as being worn by George.

After his arrest, George admitted to police that he took the hammer, the gloves, the sweater, and he threw them over the Roscoe Road Bridge. On January 29th, George describes his alibi in court. And a lot of the information that I'm about to share comes from the Rockford Register Star. So George Hansen said on the night of December 21st, he stopped by the office to get his gloves, and he saw that Marianne was dead on the floor. Hansen told the jury, quote, my first thought was, who would do something like this? And then I thought, they're going to think I did it. I thought, I've got to get my stuff out of here, he said.

It was reported that he spoke calmly and succinctly throughout this. entire testimony. And the fear of being blamed is his explanation of why he didn't call the police on December 21st, why he put the items in the garbage bag and threw them off of the bridge, and why he later picked up his granddaughter from driving class and went with her to a tanning salon as an alibi. Hanson also said that he went back to the Roscoe Road Bridge a couple of times to look for the bag. And if he found it, he would have, quote, tried to get rid of it again. The prosecutor argued that George wasn't that scared and confused man he claimed to be, but a calculating deceiver who murdered Clibbery with his hammer and then tried to cover up the crime.

In her cross-examination, she asked him why he didn't call for help when he first found Marion's body and why he didn't just call the police anonymously if that's what he was worried about. Yeah, I'm curious. And she asks why, when he knew the dead body was at the office, did he let employee Randy Baxter discover it? that's quite the little hole. Right. She asked why he took the purse, which had no blood on it, along with the bloody hammer and sweater, was it to make it look like Marianne had been robbed?

To each question, Hanser replied that he was scared, worried, or that the thought didn't enter his mind. He maintained that an intruder must have broken into the business, killed clibbery, and fled prior to Hanson discovering the body the night of December 21st. You took the evidence because it linked you to the crime, the deputy state attorney said. No, Hansen replied. I took it because the evidence is all mine. Something that's really interesting to note here, too, is that George did try to say that Marianne was in on all of this money-stealing scheme. And so this really could have been a robbery gone wrong, and it wasn't me. So then on Monday, September 19th, the murder trial starts

with a jury selection. The trial starts the following week. The prosecution said they believed George Hansen killed Marion clippery with a hammer and then disposed of the murder weapon of her belongings and his bloodstained sweater and gloves and threw it off the Roscoe Road Bridge with the intention of it sinking into the Rock River. And while the defense didn't contest that Hansen tossed the bag, they said it was because he discovered Marion's body and he was scared. During the trial, all of the forensic evidence is presented to the jury. This includes expert testimony about blood splatter at the crime scene, fingerprint and handprint. and DNA. Love's Park Police, Technical Services Director Howard Dean, testified that the location and shape of the blood splatters showed that Clibbery was hit at least four times with a weapon, twice standing and twice on the ground. Quote, could there have been more? The prosecutor asked.

Yes, Dean replied. That's the minimum, though, the prosecutor asked. Yes, Dean said. Illinois State Police forensic scientist Cynthia Cale testified that Clibbery's DNA was found in blood spots on the hammer, cell phone, and brown sweater taken from the garbage bag. Blood from a pair of leather gloves in the bag had Clibri's DNA, Kale said, although a sample of material taken from inside the gloves was inconclusive. Mark Peters, a forensic pathologist who examined Clibri's body at her December 23rd autopsy, testified that she was hit three to five times in the head with a blunt object. Prosecutors believe the object is the hammer that was found in the garbage bag, which did have blood spots containing Clibbery's DNA. The prosecution also called witnesses

who helped place George at various places in the day around Marianne's death. Another witness emerged besides the unnamed ones who saw the white SUV and the bag on the ice. He testified that he saw Hanson searching for something near the Roscoe Road Bridge about a half hour before Hanson and Baxter would report finding Clibberie's body to police. So apparently, George was on the bridge in the early morning of December 22nd as well. Quote, I saw a white-haired guy. It's that guy right there. Webster said as he nodded to Hanson seating at the defense table. So less than a year after the brutal murder of Mary Ann Clibbery, George Hanson is found guilty of the murder. The jury deliberated for less than three hours. Pretty quick. And George was brought to Winnebago County Jail on

No Bond. And then on October 13th of 2005, George Hansen is sent. to 60 years in prison. As of this recording, we don't really have any recent updates. George Hanson is still in prison at Lawrence Correctional Center in Illinois. But you were doing more research on this case, too, and you came across something else that George got tied up in that I thought was really interesting. This blew my mind. Like, my jaw dropped when I read this.

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A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. There's an article that talked about how George was actually named in another theft and fraud-related case around the same time as Marianne's murder. One of the cases was with his son, Todd Hansen, and involved setting up phony real estate transactions. It seems that this was never solved or tried. And can you guess why?

No, why? The key witness in the case, Daryl Willis, was found murdered in his car. Huh. And they just never solved that? From what I can tell, the murder is unsolved. Wow. However, his son Todd was sentenced to two years in prison in 2003 for a security scam. It's pretty clear. Like George was up to some nefarious things.

Especially, yeah. Financially, he was just kind of doing everyone dirty. And then when things went bad, he just figured he could kill the people. You know, it's interesting. I've done a lot of poisoner cases on my show. And, like, poison is one of the things. Like, poison is really scary. It's really hard to detect.

And poisoners often are repeat offenders. They're often people who poison someone once and get a total God complex over it and feel like they can just keep poisoning. because a lot of times it's not detected when people go to the hospital. You have to know what to look for when you're detecting for poisons. So I thought it was interesting that he was trying to poison her with the Ambien because he totally fits the profile of like every poisoner I've read about for the most part. Well, the Ambien is interesting. It's like, were you trying to get her tired in the afternoon so she would drive home and get in an accident?

Like what was the poison? Or that she would be so out of it. Yeah. She didn't know. Or that she would die. Right. Accidental overdose. Yeah, exactly.

What's interesting about poison, too, is men are the biggest perpetrators of poisonings. Like, men poison people more than women poison people, but poison is much more common amongst women who do murder, if that makes sense. Okay. So it is like a woman's weapon of choice, for the most part, but ultimately more. Less force. It's less force, right? You don't have to take down the person you're trying to kill. It's stealthier. But ultimately, men do poison.

more than women do. Because men just commit more murder than women. You come on me with the little stats today. Yeah, it's really interesting. It's really scary too because a lot of times you don't know that you're being poisoned. And poisoners are really good at manipulating people so they can make you feel like you're crazy for feeling sick. If you're starting to think, like, am I being poisoned? No, you just have been sick lately.

Like, you just – allergies are really bad right now. Like, I don't know. They just come up with all these excuses. Well, and for any of us out there that have experienced – at least the health care system in our country, it can be hard to get a provider to believe you. You really have to advocate for yourself and it can be exhausting.

So it would be easy to brush off in a lot of cases. To think that it's not actually poison. All of this evidence, Georgia's behavior, throwing this over the bridge, where does this leave you? Like, are you aligned with the jury? You completely agree? Or are you maybe in the boat of our initial suspect, Kevin?

Or do you, like, line with the fact that George just said he didn't do it. He just took all the stuff from the scene because it was his. I don't think that's true. I think it makes total sense that they caught him so fast. They caught him the next day. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. It's a duck. It's a duck. But where are you guys at with this one? We'd love to see your comments. Any theories you might have. Any Reddit rabbit holes you might have went down. Absolutely. And before we close this case, I want to share a few things that we learned about Marianne Clibbery during our research, because she really seemed like such an incredible person.

People said she had a great smile and great personality. She lit up a room whenever she walked in and always wanted to be involved in the community. And she was. She was super active in various local groups and events in her community, such as the Red Hat Society, Rockford's Little Miss Fourth of July pageant, on the waterfront, the Salvation Army Women's Auxiliary Group, and the Parks Chamber of Commerce. very, very involved. Oh my God, so involved.

So many groups. Her younger brother testified at trial that Marianne took care of him and that the family was very close. One of her daughters described her as the rock and glue of the family, our central point for contact. Marianne's boyfriend, Jean Sundin, appeared in interviews after her death and at the trial, and he talked about how heartbroken he felt.

Jean was visually impaired and called Marianne his eyes. Her marker reads, quote, Loving mother, grandmother, great grandmother, Gone but never forgotten, watching over us always. Mary Ann Clibbery was deeply loved, and she showed up for the people around her. That's how her friends, family, and community members remember her. That's how we'll remember her too.

And I also think it was just awesome that she saw something was going on at work. It was wrong, even though she had been partners with this guy for so long. She was still no nonsense. She knew what was right and she was going to follow through with that 100%. And I just, I think that's awesome. Strong moral compass. Yes. But that is all we have for this episode of Clues.

We really hope you enjoyed unraveling this case with us. We're going to open another case file next week. But in the meantime, we want to hear from you guys, your thoughts, theories. Again, those rabbit holes you might have went down with this one and all of your feedback because it's what's going to make us deliver a show you all love. Do these cases justice. and it's what makes a community so special. At Crime House, we value your support. Share your thoughts on social media.

And remember to rate, review, and follow clues, which helps others discover the show. And if you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to hit that subscribe button. Hit it. And if you're hungry for more content, we've got you covered. Join our Crimehouse Plus community on Apple Podcasts.

Okay, we'll be back next week with another new case on clues. Bye, guys. Bye. Capture your favorite summer feeling with Pandora Jewelry. Discover collection inspired by the sunshine, freedom, and moments that make the season unforgettable. From sun-kissed metals to personalized pieces, ready to be engraved with your summer mantra.

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