Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore - What Happened to Cindy Song? The Penn State Halloween Disappearance

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

On Halloween night in 2001, 21-year-old Penn State senior Cindy Song was dropped off at her apartment shortly before 4 a.m., still dressed in her bunny costume. Evidence suggested she made it inside: her fake eyelashes were on the counter, and her backpack and phone were left behind. But her costume, wallet, keys and ID were missing—and Cindy was never seen again.Head over to our Clues YouTube channel to WATCH this episode: https://www.youtube.com/@CluesPodIf you’re new here, don’t forget to follow Clues to never miss a case! To hear episodes ad-free and released a day early, subscribe to Crime House+. Join at crimehouseplus.com or if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, tap “Try Free” at the top of this show’s page. Clues is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios.🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to other Crime House Originals including Crime House 24/7, Crimes Of Reddit, Serial Killers & Murderous Minds, Murder True Crime Stories and more wherever you get your podcasts!Follow us on SocialYouTube: @CluesPod | @crimehousestudiosInstagram: @cluespodcast | @CrimehouseTikTok: @CrimehouseFacebook: @crimehousestudiosX: @crimehousemediaClues is hosted by Morgan Absher & Kaelyn Moore Instagram: @morgsyabsher | @itskaelynmooreTikTok: @twohottakes | @heartstartspoundingEpisode Sponsors:Watch the Hulu original series, 'Furious,' now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.The Essential Open Earbuds are a great option for everyday listening. Go to https://www.BuyRaycon.com/cluesOPEN to get 20% off.If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to https://www.zenni.com/PODCAST and use code PODCAST15 for fifteen percent off your first order. The styles sell out, so don't sit on it.Get started now at ⁠⁠https://www.HelloAlma.com/CLUES

The moment a body is found, the clock starts ticking. 48 hours before the trail goes cold. From A&E and Crime House, this is the official podcast from the famous true crime series, The First 48. I'm Carter Roy. Every Thursday, I revisit a landmark homicide investigation in depth, with long-form storytelling built for your ears. Listen to and follow the First 48 on Apple Podcast.

Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is Crime House. On Halloween night, 2001, 21-year-old Penn State Senior Cindy's song climbs the steps of her apartment just before 4 a.m., still in her bunny costume, still smiling. But that's the last time anyone sees her. When police arrive, her fake eyelashes are on the counter, her phone is there, along with her backpack. everything initially seems to be where it should be, except for Cindy. And 25 years later, her family is still looking for answers. Hi guys, welcome back to Clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence

behind some of the most gripping true crime cases. I'm Keel Moore, and I'm going to be the one digging deeper into the timelines, the backstories, and the court files released on these cases. And I'm your internet sleuth, Morgan Apshur. I'm the one who's diving into the Reddit forums and anything else I can find online to talk about the lesser known details and pull out the threads that just don't add up. Don't forget to share your thoughts on social, want ad-free and early access to clues, and the rest of the crimehouse lineup?

Subscribe to Crimehouse Plus and get at least two bonus episodes from across Crimehouse every month. To join, go to CrimehousePlus.com, or if you listen on Apple Podcasts, tap Try Free at the top of the Clues page. The case of Cindy's song starts right now. Okay, we got some comments. I know. I wanted to read from listeners. we're always reading what you guys say. But so this got sent to us that last week, someone, we found a comment, someone said,

I'm a blue-collar worker in an oil refinery. I find myself listening to True Crime Stories just about every day at work. I definitely don't tell anyone I'm listening. I came from Hail Billy 2019. Just love the username. Someone underneath also said, I'm a semi-truck driver and I do the same every day for 10 years now. And then another person is a delivery driver. There's a lot of people, a lot of blue-collar workers in the comments being like,

Someone else is like, ha ha, I feel this comment so hard. I'm a carpenter and definitely don't tell people what I listen to. Why? Why aren't you sharing us? Because people, well, if you were a carpenter or like you hired someone to help on your house and they were like, yeah, I listen to true crime. Like people just getting like hidden into walls and like killed and stuff. I'd be like, oh, interesting. I don't know how I feel about that.

Well, damn. When you put it that way. But also share that you listen to the podcast. Yeah, share with a friend that is a safe place to tell. that you listen. Yes. And if you are also a listener where you don't tell people what you're listening to, put it in the comments. Or if you do share, I did this over on Two Hot Takes and I was like, where are you listening? Like, what's your job? Because I do want to shadow people on the job. And there's dolphins and penguins that get to hear my voice every week. No way. Yeah, the dolphins really

like me. Because they work in a zoo. Uh-huh. Oh, that's great. Yeah, she's a dolphin trainer. Oh, that's, what a fun job. I know. I would love to do that. I get to go shadow her. I get to feed penguins and stuff. I had some other, because another, like last week or something we said that we wanted to do shout out, we wanted to shadow people's jobs. Especially like, put me in a lab. We've gotten a lot of messages. And so people have been reaching out with like really cool jobs and that they want us to tag along.

So we'll sort through them, I guess, and see if there's anywhere we could go. Maybe a fall adventure for us after summer slows down. For every like evidence locker tour that we take, we have to do a pallet cleanser of like being with the dolphin trainer. That's what I'm saying. People with were relaxing jobs maybe. So let us know where you listen

and also what you do because I'm very curious. And keep your comments coming about missing people and cases you would like us to highlight because this case is coming from you guys.

We saw Cindy Song's name come up a lot in comments about a missing person we should highlight and so that is why we are bringing Cindy's case to you guys today

because of listeners like you. So, without further ado. Yes, and just a quick reminder, if you're watching on YouTube, you're going to see some pictures, videos, all that stuff. That will help you visualize the case a little bit more. And if you're listening, you can find all that same stuff on our Instagram. That's at Clues Podcast on Instagram.

And just a warning before we begin. This episode does contain descriptions of murder, essay, and mentions of suicidal ideation. So please listen with care. So this case begins on the evening of Wednesday, October 31st, 2001. It's Halloween night on Penn State. University's college campus. And so Halloween in college is basically a sacred event. And at Penn State is where 21-year-old senior Cindy Song is working towards a degree in the arts. That night, Cindy and her two

girlfriends, Stacey Pake and Lisa Kim celebrate at their favorite bar, Players Nightclub. It's about two miles from Cindy's apartment. Cindy's bunny costume is understated. It's cute. It's very quintessentially, Cindy. It's just a pink top and a white skirt with fuzzy ears on her head and a puffy tail. And then she also has this red jacket on her to help stay warm because it's cold. The women drink and they mingle and they spend most of the night dancing. Then at around two in the morning, they leave the bar and they head to a friend's apartment nearby where they hang out. They just play video games for a little bit. And finally, a little before four in the morning. They decided they're going to call it a night. And Stacey dropped Cindy off at home. Cindy's roommate,

Catherine is out of town. She's visiting family of Philadelphia. So tonight, Cindy is going to be coming home to an empty apartment. Stacey walks Cindy up to her apartment and she watches her as she walks up the steps to her building. And then at that point, Stacey drives away just before Cindy reaches her front door. Now, Stacey doesn't know it, but this is the last time she will ever see her friend. And three days later, it's actually going to be Stacey who reports Cindy missing. But before we talk about that. Let's get to know Cindy just a little bit more. So Cindy was born Hyeong-sung in Seoul, South Korea in February of 1980. She had one brother, Ki-ho Song, who was five years older than her. And growing up, Cindy, was described as

being precocious, sharp and curious. Her mom, Bonsun Song, said, quote, even from a young age, she would study American culture and she was really fascinated by America. And her dream was actually to live there one day. And then in 1995, her parents told her that she was going to get the chance, not just to visit, but to actually move here for good. They hoped that it would lead to a better education for Cindy. There was just one catch to all of this, and that's that Cindy was going to have to go alone. Her parents and her brother were not going to come. Instead, she was going to live with her aunt and uncle in Springfield, Virginia. You know, a lot of teens would be terrified by this prospect, but this was Cindy's dream. So that year,

at just 15 years old, she moved to the United States by herself, which I can't imagine doing at just 15. The bravery, the drive, everything. I mean, I would, I myself would be terrified. So it's very impressive. And not only that, but Cindy had never been here before and she didn't even speak English. But if anyone could make the most of a big scary change, it was going to be her. She was very independent. She was also a free spirit. And above all else, she was incredibly driven. So none of those were going to be obstacles for her. And despite having the language barrier at first, She really did thrive here. She excelled in school, first at Hayfield Secondary, and then at Randolph-Macon Academy.

There, she joined the tennis and the track teams. She was also obsessed with pop culture. Remember, this is the 90s, early 2000s. Her tastes were very classic Y2K-era American. She loved Lenny Kravitz. She loved the movie The Matrix. And even in the age of dial-up internet, she was a very prolific blogger. But more than anything, she was looking forward to a traditional American college experience.

Like that's something that people all around the world still watching movies is like the American college experience. So when she graduated high school in 1998, she was beyond excited to start her first semester at Penn State in State College, Pennsylvania. And she knew what she wanted to do with her education right away. Hoping to get into graphic design or fashion, she declared a major in integrative arts, a flexible degree that lets students shape their own curriculum. I found an article that has a lot of her blog posts summarized too. And by Cindy's own words, she wanted to become, quote, a famous, popular, rich, talented, graphic and fashion designer. I mean, she's manifesting it.

She's manifesting. And she had three things, too, that she did not like this was big on her dislike list. And it was being a faker, a liar, or a cheap ass. And I'm like, wow. Same girl. I hate all those things. Oh my gosh. And she wanted to be popular, famous.

Yeah. Obviously, she had a lot of personality. Very strong, likes and dislikes. While she was in school, she joined the Korean undergraduate student association, the advertising club, and she also volunteered with the American Red Cross. She held two part-time jobs, one at a campus library and one at a local Korean restaurant. And she, by all accounts, had a lot of friends. People said that Cindy got along with everyone. She made sure that people around her always felt good.

She was really that type of person that you would feel lucky to know, especially in college, when every everyone's going to school for the first time and doesn't know anyone. Like Cindy was always making people feel welcome. And one of the friends that she had was a student named Richard Che. Before long, their friendship blossomed into something more. Richard moved into Cindy's apartment, two miles from campus. And as far as Cindy was concerned, everything was going great between them. But Richard felt a little differently.

In September of 2001, just a month before Halloween, he broke up with her. And it does seem to kind of be out of the blue. It appeared to be something that he was mulling over for a while because he moved out of their place right away. He had a plan. And Cindy was completely heartbroken by this. Friends that knew her, well, said that it kind of sent her down a little bit of a depressive spiral. I mean, that makes sense.

I remember getting broken up with in college. Horrible. But she processed it in the same way that she processed a lot of things. And that was with her creativity and also with grace. Her primary outlet was poetry that she would write, and she would post about this on her blog for people to read. There's actually a poem that we found from October 25th of 2001, and it read, sad but happy, crying but laughing, ugly but pretty, hungry but full, hurt but fine, weak but strong. I pretend, and this is me.

Now, Cindy knew that she was struggling during this time, but she was not necessarily one to sit around, so she didn't wait to get help, and within weeks she got on meditative. She started working with a therapist. And all of this seemed to really be working for her. By the end of October, it seemed like she was almost back to her old self. She was definitely feeling a lot better. She also had this new roommate named Catherine and the two of them got along very well. So when Cindy put on her pink bunny ears on Halloween night of 2001, her friends all thought that the only thing on her mind was having fun that night and that she was looking forward to the future. No one could have expected that this would be their last time together. Catherine, her roommate had planned to catch up with Cindy when she got home from Philadelphia on the afternoon of November 1st. But when she arrived, she found that the apartment was empty. And of course, this didn't worry her at first. I mean, it's college. Everyone's coming in and out. Cindy has two part-time jobs at this point. She's going to school. She's very involved on campus. She's volunteering with all these things. She was a very busy girl. On a Thursday, even after the

holiday, there were a million places that she could be. But then the evening rolls around. and Cindy's still not back. And this is when Catherine starts thinking that it's a little strange. Because they had plans to go to a friend's place together, and Cindy was never the type of girl to just bail on plans without telling her. By November 2nd, which at that point is basically a day and a half later, Cindy still wasn't answering her phone. Her friends also noticed that she missed classes,

and she also missed a shift at the library. But it wasn't until Saturday, November 3rd, that things really took a turn. Because by this point, it had been too, have a date since Stacey dropped Cindy off and no one had seen or heard from her since. However, it was when she missed her shift at the Korean restaurant that her friends really, really knew something was wrong. And that's because Cindy was close with the restaurant's owner. She would sometimes come in even when she wasn't on shift just to help watch his kids.

He told the press that Cindy was basically like his own niece and she would not have left him hanging without so much as a phone call. So that day, once Stacey realizes all of this, there's only one thing she can do, she realizes, and she reports Cindy missing to the Ferguson Township Police Department. But there was a problem with this. And that's that Ferguson Township is pretty small. Even to this day, the whole force is just over 20 sworn officers. There's only three detectives.

And that Sunday, there were no detectives on duty. So it was actually patrol officers that took Stacey's report. They made the assumption that Cindy had just gone off grid for a few days, And I feel like this comes up a lot in cases like this, especially with college students. A lot of times with women, it's they probably left on their own accord. They're probably hooking up with someone somewhere. That comes up. They really, really dismiss these things.

And I see you eyeing the botch board. In the Mara Murray case. And it was just like, she left. She'll come back. She just wanted to go party. Which has got to be so hard as a family member to be like, no, I know my loved one. Or as a roommate to be like, I know this girl. This is not like her.

She would never ever miss out on all of these things and not answer her phone. I mean, so responsible, so involved in the community and to have two jobs in college. Yes. Not one but two. I know. Very responsible person isn't just going to run off and not tell at least someone, let alone her closest friends. So for another full day, the report just sits there. Yeah, that's where Morgan is putting a bunch down.

It did not land on the detective's desk until the morning of Monday, November. 5th. That is four days since the last known sighting of Cindy. Now, Detective Ryan Sprinkle arrived at the Ferguson Township Police Department that Monday morning knowing that he was, in his own words, of his own admission, already behind the eight ball. That's what he said, behind the eight ball. Yeah. And I'm sure, honestly, he might have liked to have been called in Sunday when this report came in. Like, if you would have asked him, like, he doesn't want to be behind the eight ball. I know. And this is why it's not really, it's like, it's really just a botch on the patrol officer that didn't take it seriously because once the detective comes in, he says that his gut

was telling him that this was more than just a college student who forgot to tell her friends that she was going out of town. But he also knew at this point he didn't have much to work with. And that happens a lot. I remember my dad telling me this when he was a 911 dispatcher, but like a lot of times stuff just gets lost in translation. Like if one officer is like looking at stuff and then like he was telling me about a time that there was a murder in my town and the detective was on vacation. And when he came back, he was. It was just such a mess that it just went unsolved forever. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just wild. So there's basically happening here. Yeah. And there's so many people taking information than trying to relay it or write notes and things. And it's like, imagine playing that game telephone with your friends. Yes. You can't even get one little sentence passed between six, seven people.

Yeah. This is now an investigation. Yes. No, and that's exactly right. Basically, all he knew at this point was that Stacey dropped Cindy off just before 4 a.m. on November 1st, and the last Stacey saw of her friend was Cindy climbing those exterior stairs to her apartment. So now he's thinking, okay, no one's watched her go into the apartment. Is there a chance that something happened to Cindy before she even reached her front door?

This episode is brought to you by Alma. Alma is on a mission to simplify access to high quality, affordable mental health care. When you want to talk to a therapist, the last thing you want to do is fight with insurance, figure out if someone's available, Like the process can be so long that it actually turns you off from doing it. But Alma has built a community of over 26,000 diverse therapists. Also, clients with insurance pay $20 on average. Which is so important. 98% of their therapists actually accept insurance, which makes it easy to get affordable mental

health care. And you can know exactly how much you'll pay up front with their free insurance cost estimator calculator. We've had listeners comment about Alma and how beneficial it's been for them. I've loved online therapy in the past taking my. sessions from the comfort of my car, my bed, wherever. And with Alma making it more affordable, it could be a great time to try. Yes. Over one million people have found care with Alma. Get started now at helloalma.com slash clues. That's helloalma.com slash C-L-U-E-S. The government gets a bad

reputation. But did you know that the roads under your feet, the forecast on your phone, the letter in your mailbox, that's all government too? I'm Professor Lindsay Cormack and I'm hosting a new podcast called Government That Doesn't Suck, alongside Professor Greg Jackson, who you may know from the hit podcast, History That Doesn't Suck. Each episode, we dig into the surprising story of an American institution,

from the origins of the Internet, to the National Park Service, to the GI Bill, and so much more. You'll hear the stories behind them, plus a conversation with an expert who knows it inside and out. This is the real history of how we built the country under your feet,

and you'll never look at any of it the same way again. Listen to and follow. Government that Doesn't Suck. Available now wherever you get your podcasts. So when Detective Sprinkle picked up Cindy's missing person report on November 5th, there was really only one place to start, which is our first clue, Cindy's apartment. The first thing that he clocked was that each unit's door could be accessed directly from the outside. It was almost like each unit was its own little walkup. Yeah. So there wasn't a lobby. There's no doorman. So if someone had come up behind Cindy before she got it, there's really no like keyed entrances to stop them.

It's the steps and they could come and grab her. When Detective Sprinkle went inside the apartment itself, he said that it looked pretty unremarkable at first. There weren't signs of a struggle, no forced entry, no suspicious stains, like maybe there was attack and Cindy had started bleeding. As Detective Sprinkle put it, quote, "'Nothing looked out of place. She was just gone.'"

And according to her roommate, Catherine, that's exactly how she had found it when she got home on the afternoon of the first. And something that was really strange to the detective is the front door had actually been locked. So there was a question of like maybe Cindy didn't even make it inside at all. However, when the detective talked to Stacey, the roommate, she was pretty sure that Cindy had made it inside. It appeared that she dropped off some items that she was wearing that night.

For example, there were a pair of fake eyelashes sitting on the counter. Stacey confirmed Cindy had worn them for her costume that Halloween night. So she had at least been home long enough to take those off, and her backpack was in her bedroom, along with her cell phone still inside of it, which Stacey also said that Cindy had with her at the bar that night. Her bunny costume, though, was nowhere to be found, and there were also some extremely important items

that weren't accounted for. Those were her ID, credit cards, keys, and wallet. All of those items were missing. So it seemed like Cindy did make it home, but then left again afterwards, but nothing in the apartment explained where she went. And that's actually a question I had because I know we have a lot of listeners, right? In last week's episode, a lot of people commented on the pager that we put up because we have a Gen Z editor who put a picture of a pager with like words written on it. When like back in the day, the pagers were just numbers. Like I remember having to like send my dad numbers. So, but I am curious like people who had cell phones. in 2001, if you're listening, like, what was phone culture like back then? Because I think now we take for granted that we just have our phones on us all the time. But if Cindy left her apartment without her cell phone, like, because for me, I'm like, that's so strange, but I think I'm just so used to having my phone on me all the time. I don't think you brought your phone everywhere back then. I don't know. My dad did, but I think it really depends. Like, when did you get your phone? It's like, what if someone has to reach me? I know. Well, and the phones that were popular at that time in 2001. like Nokia 3310, Motorola, like the stereotypical Nokia phone is like what you're envisioning.

Like they were still pretty new at that time. Yeah. The thing that kind of trips me up here with this first clue is the fact that like, oh, the eyelashes were on the counter. Yeah. That means she got in. The phone, yeah, but maybe she didn't take the phone out and people just assumed she did. Yeah. But the eyelashes, I'm like, I don't know.

like she could have had multiple pairs of these fake eyelashes. That's the first thing I thought. It takes me 10 tries to get eyelashes and I ruin half of them as I'm doing it. Yeah, she could have literally like got it on. The glue was like messed up. She botched it. Okay, new pair. Yeah.

So I don't even know if everything in the apartment proves that she was there. That to me is what sticks out. But we do get a little further here because at this point, Detective Sprinkle had to at least consider the possibility that Cindy did leave voluntarily, not just from the apartment, but from her life on this campus. I mean, a lot of people started looking to her blog and that poem that was on there. People were really wondering if she was struggling a lot more than she was letting on. And that leads us to a couple items that give us our second clue.

And that's Cindy's plan for the future. Her friends were the first to call Cindy a free spirit, but reckless, impulsive, absolutely not. She was responsible, again, super driven. And we were also just eight months away from graduation at this point. she had everything ahead of her. Why would she really flee and in a bunny costume, no less? Her friends are like,

she wouldn't run off in a bunny costume. Like, where's the costume then? And she definitely wouldn't run off without a car or her cell phone. Like, it just wasn't adding up to anyone close to her. But like with any disappearance, Sprinkle also had to ask the hard question. Was Cindy potentially considering ending her life?

Her friends had told him about the breakup, but even at her lowest, she had gotten help, and by Halloween, they said that she was her normal fun bubbly self. The more sprinkle looked around the apartment, the more things seemed to come into focus for him, and it did show a woman who was making plans for the future. There was a receipt for a laptop she ordered. She had signed up for classes for the following semester. There was a printed cover letter and resume for an internship she was applying to,

and she had Britney Spears concert. Cindy was not going to miss Britney. It's crazy, bitch. When my, yeah, I mean, it's dark, but when my cousin died, he had Taylor Swift tickets. And that was actually like a huge part of the question of like, was their intent behind his death or not? Because like you have tickets for something. Like, wouldn't you have gone to this thing? But like sometimes it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. Truly as dark as it is, like sometimes you're like, it's not even worth it to make it for that. So like. It's so hard. And mental health is like there's so much nuance with it, obviously with each and every person. Yeah. But to Cindy's friends. and detective at this point,

they were thinking, no. That didn't look like something Cindy would consider or do. Yeah. As Sprinkle put it, quote, she was looking ahead at different events, so for her to just disappear like that would be unusual. Instead, a darker picture was emerging for everyone, which is when Sprinkled turned to the person

who had been closest to Cindy, her ex-boyfriend Richard. He knew that in cases like this, an ex is kind of always a possible suspect, a culprit someone to at least look at first? But Richard had an airtight alibi for the entire night, and Sprinkle was able to confirm it pretty quickly. However, one detail kept nagging at him.

The front door had been locked from the outside. That meant two possible options. If someone had taken Cindy from inside the apartment, they then used a key to lock it behind them, or Cindy went back outside after 4 a.m. alone, but it still didn't answer that question of where could she have gone next. Luckily, though, her friends did have a pretty good idea. Cindy had a habit of grabbing a late-night snack after a night out, which is how we learn about our third clue, the 24-hour

market near her apartment. It was actually just right across the street, less than a minute's walk from Cindy's place, and it was her go-to when she wanted something quick, and she wouldn't have thought twice about going over even at 4 a.m. in the morning. And this has been me. Like, I had a 7-11 across the street from my house, So me and the girls, we'd come back, ditch our stuff, change into comfies, and literally go to 7-11 and get hot dogs and, like, hot Cheetos at 3 in the morning. Yeah. And you just don't think about it. You're like, it's just across the street. You might leave your phone behind.

Yeah, right, right. You're like, I'm going to be gone for five minutes. Yeah. So it would make sense. And so Detective Sprinkle checks it out. Nobody at the store, however, could confirm seeing Cindy that night. And when he reviewed the security footage, some sources said, that it had already been recorded over.

Which probably wouldn't have happened if they got started earlier. A little bit of a potential botch there. I mean, it's still, it's like the same botch, right? It's just like getting started at the right time, but it's just like coming up again because we would have probably had access to that footage. So I'll make a little, I'll make like a half botch market. Yeah. Now again, we don't know if she made it in the store.

No evidence to suggest she did. So to Detective Sprinkle, an investigator is like all. All signs are pointing in one direction. Someone got to Cindy before she ever made it to that store. The detective knew it could take weeks to pull her bank records and confirm whether she had made any purchases that night. But he also knew he likely didn't have weeks if he was hoping to bring Cindy home alive. So with all these signs pointing to foul play, Detective Sprinkle had to move fast.

Within date, search teams fanned out across state college, checking back alleys, I mean, digging through dumpsters and trash cans across town. But they didn't find anything. They didn't find bunny ears or a red jacket, no wallet, no ID. These are really the things that they're looking for. So they needed to expand their efforts. What did areas near the apartment? And then they were looking also at open stretches of campus anywhere that someone could

possibly discard evidence of a crime. Or, you know, there's also the reality that there might be a body out there. So they brought in bloodhounds and scent dogs. there was also community volunteers that showed up in droves for grid searches. They had helicopter scanning overhead. Each day started feeling more hopeless than the last because like nothing was being found. It was like Cindy had vanished into thin air. And Cindy's heartbroken mother eventually flew in from South Korea with her brother. And through an interpreter, she told the press, quote, for any parent, that's the worst nightmare. But I'm trying to deal day by day and do everything

I possibly can to find Cindy. Bonsoon, her mother, took up residence in an on-campus. apartment. She wasn't going home to South Korea anytime soon. And meanwhile, the town was blanketed with these missing persons posters. Bonsoon had put up a lot of them herself. Attention on the case was starting to increase a lot. So the university staff and students all came together and they offered a $27,000 reward. And then in late November, possibly in response to that reward, a local security guard called in a pretty grim tip. He claimed to have heard that Cindy's body had been dumped on a 14-acre stretch of land. He said it was roughly a mile and a half from campus in an area that was described as being,

quote, a dumping ground. Searchers rushed over to the site and they found a lot of discarded items, but there was nothing there that could be tied to Cindy. And now everyone was just starting to get really frustrated. And as November ended, the investigation was pretty much still at square one. I mean, nothing has been found at this point. But then, the police got a call about a strange incident. 200 miles away.

One that would completely redirect their focus. This message is sponsored by Raycon. I love running around, doing errands with music in my ear, but I hate feeling like I can't hear anything and constantly feeling like my safety's at risk, which is why I love the Raycon Essential open earbuds. Since their open ear, you can listen to music or podcast while still listening to what's going on around you.

Raycons have really cool features, like their multi-point connection. you can connect multiple devices and just switch seamlessly in between them without hassle. They also have 36 hours of battery life. Bring them on the plane. Your longest plane journey, bring your Raycons and you'll be able to listen to stuff the entire time. And you'll still feel that they're comfortable. A lot of other earbuds, my ears hurt after 30 minutes. Yeah.

Raycons are so comfortable and they pass the shake test. I've literally done jumping jacks, moved in every angle, and they don't fall out. The essential open earbuds are a great option for everyday listening. Go to buy Raycon.com slash clues open to get 20% off. Thanks to Raycon for sponsoring. One of this week's partners is Zeni Optical. I don't know about you guys, but I'm the type that needs glasses everywhere. I literally have like a pair in my car, a pair by my nightstand, a pair in my back because I lose glasses so much.

I just lost a pair of my glasses last week when I went to Minnesota. Yes. And I only have one other pair. So guess who's coming in clutch to save me? Zeni. That is why I love having an affordable pair of glasses around. Zeni is an online eyewear shop, prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses, all start at under $30. You go to zenni.com, you can pick a frame, upload your prescription, and they shift to your door.

There's no appointment, no store, and no upsell at the counter. And at that price, something kind of shifts. You stop asking, do I really need new glasses? And start asking, why wouldn't I just get them? For times, you want a pair in your car. You lose a contact throughout the day. you got a spare pair in your purse or you leave yours somewhere while you're traveling and can't find them, you have got a pair. Or if you just want like a fun frame for like a statement piece for some, you know, events that you go to.

Sometimes you just want like a red pair of frames for something. Color for every outfit. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zendi.com slash podcast and use code podcast 15 for 15% off your first order. The styles sell out, so don't sit on it. That's z-e-n-n-n-i.com slash podcast. promo code podcast 15. As November turned to December 2001, investigators still had no concrete leads on Cindy's

Whereabouts. But that changed on December 5th, when police, 200 miles away, contacted investigators about a disturbing incident that a woman had witnessed in Philadelphia's Chinatown. Her story is our fourth clue. She said that she had been walking her dog one evening in early November when she heard a woman screaming for help. When she looked up, there was a man and a woman struggling by an open car door. The man was trying to force the woman inside. The woman fought with everything she had. The man overpowered her quickly, and he slammed the door and ran to the driver's seat. He turned to that witness

then and said, quote, get out of here. It's none of your business before speeding away. The tipster said that the woman matched Cindy's description. And they reported that the man had all of skin and medium-length hair, he was possibly Asian or of Middle Eastern descent. Investigators had her sit with a forensic artist, and a composite sketch was eventually released to the public. In one source I saw, they even put her under hypnosis to see if they could get any more information, really figure out anything else about her story, but eventually her story fell apart. For starters, it turned out that this woman had potentially witnessed a kidnapping that happened in October before Cindy had even disappeared.

And as they pulled at the thread further, the police chief called the story, quote, riddled with inconsistencies. Detective Sprinkle commented on it too, saying, quote, I don't know if it was a hoax, but it wasn't Cindy. We were able to determine that it wasn't Cindy. After that, investigators just stopped following this clue entirely. By early January 2002, two months. into the investigation, everyone closest to Cindy, including her ex, Richard Che, had been formally ruled out. Her phone records and email accounts showed that there was no activity after 4 a.m. on November 1st. Her bank records also confirmed the same. There were no transactions after

that time. And this left investigators at a dead end. And nobody was more frustrated than Cindy's family. Her mother and brother were still in state college doing their best to stay close to this investigation, but their relationship with police had become really strained. The family felt like investigators were prioritizing due process over Cindy, and some of the reasoning coming from the department only made things worse. Detectives pointed to the lack of a body and a confirmed crime scene, suggesting that without a crime, they couldn't pursue warrants, and that didn't sit right with her family, and that sparked comments and theories of a different nature.

Police suggested that the family's frustrations were actually rooted in a cultural gap, that they, quote, didn't understand how things worked here in the United States. And you also have it on the other side of the community is also suspecting now that racial bias was at least part of what explained the investigation being lackluster, to put it lightly. Members of the Penn State Black Caucus, an on-campus group that advocates for minority students had been following this case really closely. And they said that this dynamic felt all too familiar. Several of its leaders had been involved in a sit-in protesting racial violence and discrimination

just months earlier in April of 2001. So these two efforts converged. The Song family brought on a Korean-born attorney named Jin Han to advocate for Cindy, and students formed the coalition to find Cindy's song, both to support the family and to keep pressure on the investigators. Maybe more pressure would help this investigation move along. By February of 2002, five months after Cindy disappeared, police were claiming that they had run down every single lead. word leaked that they were about to declare the investigation inactive,

meaning that tips would be followed as they came in, but they wouldn't be actively searching for more information. So on February 1st, Han and the coalition held a press conference. Han said, quote, Words cannot begin to express the agony the song family has felt since the disappearance of their daughter. This has been compounded by the poor investigation. It is time a true investigation be commenced. And he pointed to this stark comparison.

So when a 13-year-old white girl went missing on New Year's Day the previous year, there were 50 FBI agents put on the case immediately. And she was found within three days. I mean, in Cindy's case, they weren't even looking for her within the first three days. So already you just have, and it was just the patrol officer who called it in. They didn't even get a detective for four days. Yep. So after they made this point, the investigators gave Han access to their files. Yeah.

And I do think that is the biggest difference. found her within three days, didn't even start until day four. Couldn't even be bothered. So it's already apples to oranges. And I guess like I can totally see where everyone involved is coming from in this. But they did get helicopters and like seemingly Cindy just vanished out of thin air. It seemed like that, yeah, once the detective was involved, he was like, okay, we got to get moving. So it's like, what do they have to go off of?

It's not even due process. There's just nothing here. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's really no clues. So disheartening. So the family still, even though they had access to the file now, they kept up the pressure for an active investigation to continue. But the relationship between the family and the police just kept deteriorating. Meanwhile, the case continued to receive a lot of coverage actually in South Korea. And that same February during a presidential visit to South Korea, Cindy's family and friends back home blanketed public spaces with her posters hoping to get President Bush's attention while he was there on a visit. The Korean consulate who had been monitoring the case. actively noted, quote, there are a lot of Korean parents with students in the United States

who are very worried about this case. In May, Bonson delivered a petition with 15,000 signatures to the governor of Pennsylvania asking for the state police to get more involved. And it did work, but it also came at a cost.

The Ferguson Township Police Department, while they agreed to keep up their efforts, reportedly responded by cutting off all communication with the family. Which feels really, petty again like you're saying you don't understand the process it's a cultural thing then explain it to them like communicate what was the case we were covering where literally they sent out the email and c ced everyone and said i don't want to deal with the stupidness ever like anymore and they were

referring to the family was it betsy feria it might have been yeah it might have been betsy it just like it feels like it could have been any of the cases because we hear about that so much yeah i know i'm like which case because i feel like it does happen yeah hey this is your job you do it every day. So you, yeah, you're going to lose patience with someone coming in, maybe asking repetitive questions, who doesn't get it. It's not their wheelhouse. But look at them with maybe a little empathy, their family member, their loved one, their friend, their sister is missing. They're in a country where they don't even speak the language. Language barrier. And their daughter's missing. Have a little bit of grace. And just, I get it. You feel like your toes were stepped on, maybe.

I'm putting words in their mouth. But I just think this is where. You know, it is your job to communicate. And it's not that the investigation stopped at this point. That's not what we're saying. Because by late summer 2002, Detective Sprinkle had six investigators from the state police working this case alongside him. He was still very interested in solving this. Which also as Detective Sprinkle, like, bring in the state, man. There's only three detectives at this little precinct.

Yeah, exactly. Give me some resources. Give me help. Yeah. And he kind of took on this, like, see what sticks. element to this investigation. Apparently there had been attempts to connect Cindy's disappearance to the May 2001 case of Chandra Levy

in Washington, D.C. Remember, she went jogging and she was ultimately, you know, that was another one where they're like, she could have just ran away on her own. She was with the politician. The politician. Did the politician kill her? And then we found, her body was found and it was tied to this still a lot of questions with that one. I know. So it could have been a stranger. It could have been someone that was hired, but still, it was something that was on no one's radar.

So it proves that you have to keep looking. So maybe there was some chance that they were connected because it did happen the same year. As for it being connected to Cindy, it really doesn't seem like the two were connected because, like I said, there was someone that was arrested for Chandra's disappearance. But then in August of 2002, at the request of the Penn State paranormal research society, you did hear me correctly. No, this is not an episode of Heart Soutes Pounding. I know it feels like it is turning into that kind of.

territory. But so Sprinkle actually brings in a psychic from California. And she reported having visions of a carving on a tree. And she told him that three or four men had abducted Cindy in a sexually motivated crime. And Detective Sprinkle hears all of this and he acknowledges that she provides a lot of information to the case. But he doesn't think that any of this information is necessarily useful. They don't find anything. There's, I mean, a carving on a tree is like. It's somewhat vague. Yeah. Carving on a tree. It's hard to investigate that and pour resources into it.

I do want to ping on the psychic again, though. So if I don't, please remind me. I do find it interesting, though, that they are least, they're like, let's try everything. Yeah. We're putting the one person under hypnosis. We're bringing in a psychic. Like, they really are trying and just looking anywhere they can. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

And usually when it's hypnosis and a psychic, it's. that we have nowhere else to look. And that is our last ditch effort. So the case is still not moving. And then in September, Cindy's story was actually covered in an episode of unsolved mysteries at Sprinkles's request. And of everything we've talked about so far in this investigation, that's probably the most helpful thing you can do because so many people were watching

this show in the early 2000s and calling in tips. And after that episode aired, tips started pouring in, including this one tip that was about Cindy possibly being spotted in the studio audience of the price is right. It ultimately didn't lead anywhere, but it was one that stuck out to investigators. Soon this investigation hit the one-year mark, and for five months after that, there was really nothing. Nothing moved, no tips that were useful, got called in. But that is until June of 2003. When an informant made a revelation to police 136 miles away, and what he told officers would send shockwaves through Pennsylvania for years to come, By June 2003, it had been 19 months since Cindy Song disappeared, and the investigation had, again, almost nothing to show for it.

Then, an informant surprised a detective in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, and he said that he had a story to tell. He was on parole, and, after picking up fresh burglary and theft charges, was on a fast track back to prison. But he claimed that he had intel on Cindy's case. All he needed was a little leniency on the prison issue. This informant was a 33-year-old named Paul Weekly. He had grown up in Michigan, had a pretty unique rap sheet. He'd actually served a decade in federal prison on bomb-making charges. While he was inside, he shared a cell with a man named Hugo Selensky,

who was in for armed burglary and firearm offenses. And Selensky, let's just put it this way, not a good dude. He had a reputation for being pretty scary and was a major player in the Luzerne County drug scene. But he was also said to be very charismatic and manipulative. Over time, Salensky and Weekly got close. Selensky got out first in January 2001. And when Weekly was released in March of 2002 with nowhere to go, Salensky took him in. And so, Weekly is crashing at his place and Selensky confides in him.

and that is when Weekly said that he confessed something awful. That confession is our fifth clue. Now there's three players to actually track here. Weekly, the informant, Solansky, the cellmate, and a disgraced former pharmacist named Michael Kirkowski. According to Weekly, Selensky told him that he and Kerkowski were driving around State College in the early morning of November 1st

when they saw Cindy outside of her apartment. They assumed that she was a sex worker, and so they forced her into their car and then took her to Kerkowski's house. There, they held her captive in what some sources refer to as a dungeon of sorts, and they essayed her. According to Selensky, that is where she died, though he never explained how. Okay, so there's obviously a lot to unpack with that whole statement, but I want to give a little bit more context to how a pharmacist ended up in business with a guy like Solensky. Yeah. In 2000, Kerkowski owned a strip mall pharmacy called the Medicine Shop off of Route 29 and

Eaton Township, Pennsylvania, at least until one of his customers died from a prescription drug overdose. And when authorities investigated, they found pills in the customer's bedroom and not just a couple of pills. They found thousands of pills. Around 50 different medications, all that had been filled at Karkowski's pharmacy. He was charged with involuntary manslaughter. improperly dispensing controlled substances.

And in February of 2002, that was three months after Cindy disappeared. He was convicted on three counts of delivery or dispensing a controlled substance in bad faith. On April 25th, Krakowski chose to plead guilty to reckless endangerment in exchange for removing the involuntary manslaughter charge. And even so, he was facing up to 40 years at his sentencing hearing, which was scheduled for May 14th of 2002. But when May 14th rolled around, Krakowski didn't show up. Authorities searched for him, came up empty too, and his girlfriend, Tamalee Fassett, was also gone.

By all appearances, they had just gone on the run together. So it made sense that Krakowski's and Selensky's worlds were intertwined. Selensky moved product. Krakowski had inventory. But Weakley said that there was more to the story. When Selensky found out that Krakowski had kept one of Cindy's bunny ears as a trophy, something that he considered to be a catastrophic risk, He killed both Krakowski and his girlfriend, Tammy Lee Fassett, in a rage.

And here's where Weekly's accounts shifts from secondhand account to first-hand account. He knew where Kikowski and Fassett's bodies were because he helped Selensky bury them. Well, actually, re-buried them. See, Selensky had originally buried these bodies near a high school stadium about four miles away from his house. When he had second thoughts, he called Weekly to help move them. So they dug up these bodies and reburied them somewhere Selensky could keep an eye on them. In the same place, he claimed that he had buried Cindy in a makeshift graveyard right behind his house, 130 miles from State College.

So Luzerne County and the Pennsylvania State Police moved on June 4, 2003, applying for a search warrant for Solensky's property. And while they waited for it to be signed the following morning, troopers kept watch on the property from a distance. They hadn't planned to go in without a signed warrant because, not allowed. But when Zelensky's dogs spotted the troopers and started barking, a lieutenant with the state police ordered that everyone had to move. And Zelensky was actually in his yard when they arrived. And when he was told that they were there to search for human remains, he tried to play it really cool. He said, there's nothing to find here. And he actually consented to the search being done. He even said he would help them dig if they needed it. Which is crazy. Can you imagine that? Hey, you're looking for human remains. Like a. I'll dig. Yeah, here's a trouble. Let's go this way, actually.

Yeah, let's actually go to the far other side of my property. Keeping cool was not working for this guy because the moment he was told that the warrant had been approved, he started eyeing this one spot in his yard. Like, he just kept looking really nervously at this one spot in his yard. And then a cadaver dog gets loose. The police, like, let loose a cadaver dog on the yard. And, like, they've been seeing him, like, watch that one little spot. So, like, let's just let the dog loose and see where it marks. that exact spot immediately. The dog goes right over there and sits. And that is when they find

clue number six for us here, which we do need a little Sherlock mark on the board here for the dog. I've seen a lot of comments being like, hey, anytime a dog is brought up. Dogs are perfect. They're always Sherlock. Good thing. Give them a good mark. So investigators actually dig at Zelensky's property for over a month. The first discovery did come on day one, only three feet underground in that exact spot that Zelensky had been staring at, and the dogs alerted to. At first glance, it was just one body, a woman with her hands tied behind her back, ankles bound, and a plastic flex tie around her throat. But when they removed her remains, a second body was found directly below. A man also restrained, eyes and mouth covered with duct tape.

Authorities held a press conference that evening confirming both discoveries. Within days, were identified, and indeed it was the pharmacist, Michael Kerkowski, and his girlfriend, Tammy Lynn Fassett. Weekly's information was proving to be good. Yeah, that's wild. Because there's so many times where you hear about people just saying things to get out of prison. Not only he knew exactly who had died, he knew exactly where they were buried and why. And now he's also saying that Cindy is there. Yeah, and the discoveries on this property kept coming.

There were three more sets of remains found on the property in dramatically worse condition. There were thousands of charred fragments scattered near an outdoor fire pit. Eventually, rival drug dealers, Frank James, and a DA, Osassas, Kyler, were identified as two of those victims. But on October 8, 2003, authorities confirmed the fifth set of remains still hadn't been identified. So of course, everyone's wondering at this point, could it be Cindy? Is he telling the truth about all of this? Because so far, he's been right about pretty much everything. Everything else.

Well, the Ferguson Township Police Chief, Edward J. Connor, stated that same day, quote, we are 100% positive that Cindy Song is not the victim. And there were a few reasons why they landed there. So when Weekly first spoke with the Luzerne County Detective, he identified specific locations on the property where he had personally seen bodies. And when investigators searched those spots, they were empty. Which, who's to say he didn't move them? I know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because already part of the story is that he's moving bodies around. He's moving bodies. Like, who's to say he didn't like that hole anymore? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And he's also burning a lot of bodies. Yes, it's kind of telltale heart a little bit where, like, the bodies are buried and maybe he's so paranoid. He's just, like, kind of moving them around all the time. Yeah.

There was also something else. A search of Weekly's house showed that he had searched his computer extensively for information on Cindy's case. And more than enough detail to construct a credible sounding account. So, no, it didn't look like Selensky actually had a connection to Cindy after all. But the picture started getting murkier as time went on as well. So for years, there were whispers around Luzerne County about more victims on Selensky's property. And in 2009, that's six years after the original search, authorities confirmed that Salensky's victim count had reached at least 12.

At least 12. That's how many remains they found scattered across his property. 12. Yeah. I also don't think him having an internet search or informant here about Cindy is enough to be like, oh, well, he looked her up and that's why he found it. Yeah, he just learned the information and then said it's like, if someone had admitted to me, oh, I killed this person.

First thing I'm going to do is Google them. Who is that? Yes. Like if someone told me, it's like, I agree. There's multiple logical explanations for why that search would be on his computer. Like maybe that's not the whole reason it's on there. You know what we, it was the Gilgo Beach killer that we covered where he's also Googling the victims too because serial killers sometimes like to know about the victims. But I think also you want to know if people are closing in.

Yeah. You want to know if there's movement in the investigation, whatever. So like, yeah, they'll look up the victim sometimes. Now, police never said for sure when those other remains were discovered. did authorities know about them since 2003 and only now they were confirming the count or had they been found in the years in between, maybe they were going back for digs

and just slowly finding more remains. So authorities obtained DNA samples from Cindy's parents in 2013 and they haven't matched Cindy to any of the remains that were found on Selensky's property. But in a case where much of the evidence has been reduced to small charred fragments,

the absence of a match does not rule out anything completely. And actually, as recently as 2022, the lead detective on Cindy's case said, quote, we have not been able to prove or disprove anything regarding Selensky. So, in fact, he remains the only real lead that we have in Cindy's disappearance. And her family who waited in the U.S. for years searching for answers eventually had to go home. They had to return back to South Korea, completely empty-handed. There are a lot of loose ends on Cindy's case. I've seen some sources say her family did actually believe that Zelensky and Kerkowski were involved in some way and that brought them peace.

I've seen other sources say that they didn't believe he was connected to her case at all and are still looking for answers. Online, there's quite a few different theories on Cindy's disappearance. The most common by far is Selensky. The physical evidence is absent and details remain murky. but the circumstances a lot of people feel are really hard to dismiss. And there's a detail we're sitting with. When Zelensky was finally convicted for the murders of Michael Kerkowski and Tamilin Fassett in 2015, his co-conspirator, Paul Weekly, the informant, was convicted alongside him,

not as an informant who pointed the blame elsewhere, but instead as one of the killers. So it kind of begs this question to a lot of people, me included, why would weekly, he's in jail on just robbery charges, why would he out all of this? Yeah, right. And then now he's got a murder charge. And now he's getting charged with even more. So a lot of people are really confused about that because both of them are now serving life sentences. However, a big theory on Reddit is that Zelensky was actually working for the mob. People point to the rival drug dealers. Interesting. And a bunch of... other crimes he's been connected with.

And they really think he was actually working for a mob. Interesting. Yeah. In Pennsylvania, yeah, maybe. He's driving. Cars exist. Yeah. New York is close.

To Jersey, yeah. For sure. That's true. And actually, you know, I was listening to something with Nancy Grace recently. And she was saying on cases like this, investigators will actually listen to podcasts like ours just to hear theories. And they'll go through Reddit threads because sometimes they're just, just trying out everything. So they'll listen to theories from you guys in the comments, us up here.

So it actually might be worth, because people have said, too, they want to hear more of the internet theories and like the Reddit theories. Because I have one here that I found to just on a thread talking about Cindy. So this person here said that I went to Penn State a few years after Cindy and I can provide a little bit of additional context. So State College is and was fairly safe in that it didn't have muggings or random street attacks. So when Cindy disappeared, it was totally shocking. Going to players until last call and then hanging out afterwards was a very normal thing to do running to a 24-hour gas station for snacks, also very normal. I personally think that she stepped out to grab a snack and then something happened to her there.

Likely, an out-of-town visitor who popped through to party for Halloween took the opportunity. And I actually think that it being Halloween probably has a lot to do with it. Because think It's a big college area. There's so many people out and about. You're in costumes. No one knows who you are. You're wearing a mask. Like truly no.

Pranks happening. Pranks happening. I could totally see where she just like pops out to grab a snack, doesn't bring her phone. She like already took her costume off or her eyelashes off. And someone just grabs her. Yeah. Someone's just in town looking to party and it's maybe like messed up or something.

I know. And you know, a lot of people do point to like, oh, again, it's not Solansky. because he didn't really have any sexually motivated crimes. But according to Weekly, the informant story, it was Kerkowski that wanted to take her. Yeah, yeah. And then essay her if that is what happened. So it doesn't necessarily have to be Zelensky.

Right, yeah, exactly. But I do think the random someone came through or just took her is also one of the major theories floating around out there. Now, a lot of people do point back. back to that Philadelphia Chinatown citing as being real. Yeah. I have a harder time believing that.

It seems like her story really was investigated thoroughly and it fell apart. I think maybe, I don't know, I just think based on her description of who it was too, was really broad. But could that have been him getting her in the car? Because wasn't that also part of the Selensky story? Was that he was forcing her into a car?

But back on campus. But it was closer to campus. Yeah. So it wouldn't have been. It probably wasn't the same thing. That feels a little bit too, much of a stretch for me, but I think it does really tie into the theory that Cindy was trafficked. And overall, so many people keep coming back to that. And it's just there's not any really

evidence to go off of. Yeah. So it is like she banished out of thin air. Yeah. And now 25 years after Cindy disappeared, her family has no answers and they're not the only ones. Across the country, cold case units are chronically understaffed and underfunded. We've talked about it a lot on this show. So it's simply not possible for them to actively investigate every open cold case. And a lot of times cold cases are just passion projects for detectives. And that makes the work of nonprofits in this space incredibly critical. So there's this place called Project Cold Case that we wanted to shout out. And they support families of victims in unsolved homicide cases.

And you can learn more about them at ProjectColdcase.org. There's also the Doe Network, which works to give back names to Jane and John Doe's across the country, work that can finally give desperate families the answer that they need. And you can find more about them at the Doanetwork.org. I've seen a lot of cases recently solved thanks to DNA and their work online. It's been really amazing to see. So a great organization to check out. And I actually just saw that Othrum started a YouTube channel where they're... Yeah, we've talked about them a lot. Yeah. So Othrom, it's the Texas organization. It comes up a lot in our cases because they're doing so much with genetic, genealogical DNA. But they started a YouTube channel where they're there.

they kind of get into the weeds on how they solve some of these old cold cases, but then they do interviews with the people involved on like the DNA that they used to crack. So check them out as well because like it's just interesting to hear from them how they get into solving these cold cases. Yeah. And if you have a loved one who is missing in the United States, whether you're here or you're overseas like Cindy's family, Namis, NAMUS is a centralized nationwide database and resource center for family searching for the long term missing. This November will mark 25 years since Cindy went missing, and her fate is as elusive as it was on the morning of November 1st, 2001. So if you have any information that might help solve the disappearance of Cindy's song,

you can contact the Ferguson Township Police Department at 814-237-1-1-172. And with that, let's highlight a missing person this week. The case we're highlighting this week is the disappearance of Ashley Summers. Ashley Summers was last seen near a family member's residence in Cleveland, Ohio on July 7th or 8th of 2007. She was 14 years old at the time of her disappearance. She was described as having brown hair, blue eyes, being 5,5, and 130 pounds at the time of her disappearance, a white female, and she also has a tattoo with the name Gene, G-E-N-E, in black ink over a red heart on her upper arm. If you have any information concerning, Ashley, please contact your local FBI office or the

nearest American Embassy or Consulate. That's it for this episode of Clues, and now we want to hear from you, Your thoughts, theories, feedback, all that stuff are really important to us. We read through it. Like Nancy Grace says, sometimes the feds are reading through it. So all of that's important. We're turning it over to you. You can comment wherever you listen. At Crimehouse, we really value your support. So again, share all your thoughts on social media. And remember to rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Subscribe to Clues to help others discover our show. And don't forget, for early ad-free access, subscribe to Crimehouse Plus at crimehouse.com.

Or if you listen on Apple Podcast, tap try free at the top of the clue. page. Thank you guys. Bye. Bye. Every week we dive into the pieces, both hidden and obvious, behind some of the biggest true crime cases. Subscribe to Clues Pod with Morgan Absher and Kaelin Moore on YouTube. And remember, every clue counts.

The moment a body is found, the clock starts ticking. 48 hours before the trail goes cold. From A&E and Crime House, this is the official podcast. from the famous true crime series, The First 48. I'm Carter Roy. Every Thursday, I revisit a landmark homicide investigation in depth with long-form storytelling built for your ears. Listen to and follow The First 48 on Apple Podcasts,

Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.