Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - A Real-Life Approach to Slow & Simple Living with Madisun Gray | Clutterbug Podcast # 181

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

Are you tired of the hustle and bustle of everyday life? Are you craving a slower, more relaxed and simplified existence? Me too! I'm over the "hustle" hype and ready to embrace less work, less stress and less stuff. In today's podcast, Madisun Gray walks us through her personal journey and offers some excellent tips and advice on slow and simple living.    Follow Madisun's YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@MadisunGray Visit Madisun's website here: https://madisungray.com/     You can find more Clutterbug content here: Website: http://www.clutterbug.me YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clutterbug TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/   #clutterbug #podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Clutterbugs, welcome back to the Clutterbug podcast. Today is an exciting interview. I'm chatting with the incredible Madison Gray. She is a fellow YouTuber with a really unique approach on slow, simple living. I find her so inspiring. I love following her on Instagram and watching her YouTube videos. And I know you are going to be just as inspired as I am. So hi, Madison.

Welcome. I'm going to call you Maddie. Thank you so much for being on the Clutterbug podcast. Oh, Cass, thanks for having me. This is an honor for me. It's very exciting. I've been, so I've been crushing your YouTube channel. You are like, you're owning this whole minimalism thing, but you're really calling it something else, which I love. It's all about slow, simple living. And tell me, how long have you been doing this? So for me, it all started with the birth of my first daughter, which I've heard from a lot of other women is kind of, it can be their starting point to kind of like reconnecting with who they really are and what's really a priority for them in life. It's like a reawakening almost when you have your first baby. And plus, life with kids can be so hectic that I know for many women and for me as well.

It was like, okay, if I'm going to really enjoy this, we need to streamline. We need to streamline the household. we need to streamline the schedule. Otherwise, this is just, it's chaos and I'm stressed. And so, yeah, it wasn't long after her birth that I realized, like, everything that the modern mom was doing and being in the house that I was aspiring to, this, I don't know if you ever watched the, oh, gosh, what's it called? back when I was a kid there was this TV show it was like extreme home makeover and they would move the bus like every week we would tune in and it was this mansion right and so I grew up just like aspiring to this mansion house with like made over rooms and color schemes and just nothing that I am now but yeah it was like a reckoning for me I became my mom pretty young and I think just everything collided at the right time honestly.

for me to just kind of wake up again to what was truly important to me. Yeah, there's a lot of pressure. I'm older than you. I could be your mommy, I think. But when I first had kids, there wasn't, I felt like there was definitely still pressure, but I didn't have the same social media pressure that there is today. And so I feel it and I feel for young moms because you're supposed to be cutting their sandwiches into butterflies with cookie cutters and your house is like gorge and what is happening and

where's all your stuff and why is everything like beautiful subtle tones of brown like what is so true the neutrals it's like some wes anderson film but you're really living it and you know and everything's like do do do do but we know that that's not reality because you're covered in baby vomit and there's crap everywhere and crumbs on the floor and i i i i i I thrive in chaos and I say this and I know maybe this is a cop-out, but I have ADHD. So I was like, I was one baby. I was, I was like, yeah. And then two babies.

It was the second baby for me. Yeah. It all came toppling down. And it was, I, you know, I say this, but I still feel like this today. Life felt heavy. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. I resonate with that a lot.

Heavy. So I had to put something down. Because I couldn't carry it all. And what I put down was the excess clutter first. I just put that down. And wow, I felt lighter. And the more I decluttered, it was like, and you have had this exact same experience. You are like, you got rid of so much.

Tell me. Like, tell me how much you got rid of. Yeah, we did. Well, ultimately, it was over the course of, let's see, my daughter was for when we moved to Hawaii. But yeah, over those four years, we went from like a, you know, normal suburban home to six suitcases. We got rid of everything and moved to Hawaii.

We don't actually live in Hawaii. And now, ironically, we live in the suburbs near my parents in Southern California with a totally different lifestyle. But it's like we needed to do that complete purge, almost like re-centering time. At the time in Hawaii was really beautiful, I think, with just such. so much less focus on material possessions. And yeah, just also seeing our kids, we had two kids at that point, thriving without toys.

People get so upset when I say that. But they have toys now. But at the time, they're like, no, like, if it's not essential in six suitcases, like we're not bringing it. So, yeah, that was just such a, I feel like that was the place where my YouTube channel birth got birth from was that experience being like okay it doesn't need to be this extreme where you have only six suitcases in you live in Hawaii but like experiencing this and realizing like this is not just um yeah it's not just a YouTube video like this is this really is

beautiful like for my children my children are more emotionally regulated I feel emotionally regulated I've been able to process things. And when I first had my daughter, I had a lot of postpartum anxiety, which I know is pretty common in the U.S. for women. And yeah, minimalism was like a tool that helped me really process that. And so, like, I feel like it all culminated when we were in Hawaii and just having all this time in nature and togetherness as a family. And, you know, we were able to move back to Southern California, ironically, to the suburbs, which isn't where I plan to spend the rest of my life, I'll be honest. But for now, it's nice. We're saving money and we're down the street from family and we have really great community here. So I think that now that I was

I was able to kind of integrate those two lifestyles and it gives me so much inspiration. And that's what I love sharing on the internet is just like kind of this middle ground of like slow living doesn't have to be rural countryside, you can integrate it into your normal life in the suburbs or wherever you live. I love that because I'm like a huge, I follow a lot of homesteaders just because it's so, it's like it's I aspire to be more like that. But the truth is I'm not like that. Listen, I hate the taste of sourdough. Can I just say that? I really, I really hate it. I was like making bread. I'm like, wait a minute, this isn't me. But I don't think it's that. that I'm looking for. It's the slower-paced life. And if you're listening to this right now and you're

also like, man, that sound like you're fantasizing about that, but you're not going to move to Hawaii or buy a farm. We can still have what we're really craving, which is that slower, simple life. And it starts, it really does. And nobody wants to hear this. Listen, every podcast, I say this. And I feel like what people are like, Cass, give me something else other than this. But it starts with putting down the things that you're carrying that you don't want anyways. The things that you're not using, donate them, get rid of them. And there's so much like fear about letting go of good stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But this is still good. This is what I hear. Why would I let that go? It's still good. But the truth is it's not good for you.

It's not good for you because it's too much for you to handle. And you felt this. You felt the world. It's, how do we describe this, Maddie? How do we describe the feeling on the other side when you let go of the things you don't even know that are burdens? I really like how minimal mom described. the inventory, like every single thing we own is like a tab open in our brain. And like everyone knows. If your computer's running slow, like you close tabs, you streamline its processing. And I hate to

compare us to machines. But for me, that is how it felt like it, it feels like, oh my gosh, this machine is just running properly. And I didn't need to go on a fancy diet or take a bunch of supplements. Like I really needed to lower my inventory to let my body and my, I guess my mind thrive. And so I agree. I think it starts with decluttering as well. I say that all the time too. Yeah. And I also let go of, I mean, I let go of the dream of making homemade bread. I put things down that didn't fill me that I felt I had to carry. I stopped saying yes to a bunch of things and a bunch of people. I just was like, how can I have, and I have a long way to go. My toe's very swollen.

Maddie, I'm going to tell you, I have rheumatoid arthritis in my toe. My husband's like, you have to eat. He was reading WebMDs, like, eat better, exercise, and have less stress. And I was like, thank you very much. I'll start that tomorrow. I'll just do all those things. I'll completely change my life. But we do need less stress.

And I think that's what you are really doing with a slow, simple living. At the end of the day, it's all about less stress. I actually follow you on Instagram and I saw this. You did this post about fast food versus slow food. I've never heard anyone use the term slow food before. So I found that so fascinating. Can you talk about that just for a second? Like fast food versus slow food because this was, this resonated with me.

me too yeah i think it probably resonates with everyone because food is just like so human like i think the way we grow it and the way we prepare it it sets us apart from all other animals and creation i think it just it's like this very human experience so um for those that aren't familiar slow living which sometimes to me is ironic that it has to be a movement at all because it's just like normal human life without the excess, but it is a movement that began in Italy with the slow food movement. So when, I think it was in the 70s, when food started becoming something that was imported a lot, like it wasn't local farms, selling food, people eating locally, wine started being imported and exported. There were suddenly all these opportunities to make more

money by, it just imports and exports. That was when, understandably, people of Italian heritage got upset because food, like we know, of Italian culture is, like so rich in their heritage. And so there began this movement when I believe it was a McDonald's was proposed to be built in Rome, like on the Spanish steps, I think, and Italians were outraged. And so they started this movement and basically it's if you've lived in America your whole life probably all you know is fast food culture and it's just kind of the things we hear all the time like you know cheaper is better and faster is better and there's no connection to where that thing was made the like the soil in which it came from the family recipe in which that was developed it's just this

very rich, totally different product than what you would have in a fast food restaurant. That's a chain that's very disconnected from the process. I think at the core, slow living is about savoring the process rather than just efficiency of results. So, yeah, I feel like that it resonates a lot for me too. So I'm glad to hear you say that it resonates for you because there's so much to it. There's so many layers. I'm just like so anti-Cosco. I mean, I sometimes go to Costco, but I curse it.

Every time I'm in there, I'm like, this is hell. I died tomorrow and went to the bad place. It would be Costco. But I come home. I'm like, where am I going to put all this crap? But there's so much like frozen meals and quick, quick, quick. And it's always just not satisfying in some way. But I'm busy.

I'm busy. I get it. But the thing I've really found is we have a little garden. I pick some ripe tomatoes, you know, chop them up, put them in some olive oil, fry them, maybe some zucchini, add some pasta. That's always like so good. So much faster. Yeah. And it's here before the pizza would get here. And I'm like, I actually feel really good about myself, which is something I've kind of, there's been a disconnect when it comes with food. I hate cooking. I'm not good at. it but I can still whip together these like nutritious healthy simple things yeah and it does do so I'm I'm I'm trying Maddie I'm trying no pressure for me I think you know yeah you've got to prioritize what works for you but that's the other thing I don't know if you ever feel like this about your content like I never want to be anybody's guru like it's to be like it's to be like this is the answer and this is the way everyone should live. Like this is just what's working for me. And I

assume that people will approach it and be like, okay, I can take bits of that that works for me and not with the rest of it. I love that. Yeah, for sure. It's like I'm addicted to self-help books. And I always get like one little nugget of something. You know, most of the book I'm like, that probably doesn't know, or I forget. But the more I just keep consuming this, my life just like inch by inch gets slightly better. And I love the idea of being able to just kind of, it's not like I'm coming up with anything new. I'm just like recycling the stuff that's working and like, hey, man, save yourself the time and try all this stuff. But I think we're all craving. We are. We're all craving. There's something missing, I think. And we're all feeling suffocating and like such a

burden. And I work with a lot of clients when it comes to decluttering. And I just see them, This is how I see them. They're in a rowboat in the ocean and the waves are splashing over, right? And there's a hole in the boat and it's filling with water. And they're getting cups and bowls to put the water in the boat in, right? Instead of bailing it out or plugging the hole. This is what we're filling our home in lives, not just with stuff, but with like, with pressure and like commitments and work and all these things.

And not only we're not plugging the hole, but we're not bailing the water out so we stop sinking. There's always going to be water slashing over the side. But we just have to consistently keep kind of getting it out instead of putting more containers for that stuff to go in. We're so marketed to that way, like that it's just become our resting state. Because I still struggle with that too, of like, oh, I'm having this issue. I can't even think of an example. It's like, I should buy a solution for that. Buy a solution.

And like, I wonder if there's a different approach. You know, like, it's just, I wonder if other people are like that too. I think everybody. I think that's human nature. My toe hurt this morning. And I immediately was like, I said to my husband, do I need a toe? Can I cut it off? Is there a pill I can take?

Is there something? Where's the fast? Like, how can I just and move on to the next thing instead of dealing with like the root of the issue? And I think the root of all of our issue, whether it's financial problems, which struggle with weight, we struggle with like relationships, we struggle with keeping our sanity and our home. It all comes down to like we're taking on too much, too much stuff, just too much. There's more than we can handle. And yeah, so I just love slow, simple living. I love the

message that you, and I could just watch you. Your beautiful aesthetic, your YouTube videos are like, they're like some sort of just trip down gorgeousness. The music, your timing, it's such an enjoyable experience to watch you on YouTube. And I feel that that must be what your life is like. I'm sure it's not like that 24-7.

No. I'm sure you get stressed. But I want more. I'm like, I want to be more like Madison. I want to take a second to thank today's sponsor HelloFresh. Every week I get three meals delivered from HelloFresh. For me, it's about treating myself to healthy, delicious food. It's 15 minutes or less most of the time to throw these meals together. And I'm really building confidence in the kitchen because these are delicious

recipes with step-by-step instructions. Everything's pre-portioned for me. I just kind of follow along and put it together and in less time than it would take and for less money than getting takeout, I have a really gourmet, healthy meal. Summers are busy. So if you want to stop running to the grocery store, stop planning, you can try HelloFresh right now. Go to hellofresh.com slash clutter pod 50 to save 50% off plus free shipping. That's Hellofresh.com slash clutterpod 50 for 50% off plus free shipping. I read something about Blue Zone and I have no idea what this is. Really?

What is Blue Zone? No, I've never heard of this before. Oh my gosh. Oh, I would love to talk to you about Blue Zones. Okay, so it's actually surprising to me that more people haven't heard about this. But the Blue Zones are these areas in the world where the most. Most centenarians have been located. Like parts of the world where there's like hotspots of people living long,

healthy lives. And most of the time, I would say except for Loma Linda, which is here in California, like outside the medical system. So it's not like they're being treated long term for, you know, like they're taking drugs to stay healthy or like we said, like buying fixes. They're actually just genuinely like living long healthy lives. And so I think it's fascinating. and in creating my course.

Like I studied the blue zones a lot because one of, there's lifestyle habits and there's diet habits that I think we can clean from the blue zones. But I was lucky enough to visit a blue zone. Was it a month ago now? I think so. Anyway, in Sardinia, which is a little island off the coast of Italy. And it's actually the original blue zone that I'm not sure what the team of researchers were. I'll have to send you some articles for the,

the show notes if people want to dive deeper into this. But yeah, where people consistently live to be over 100 years of age. And they, what I found while being there is like these are not, these are, these are mostly impoverished areas. And it was shocking to me that people have these rich, fulfilling lives with very little, very small little apartment homes, surrounded by like typically multi-generational family and not much stuff like not all of our modern conveniences definitely no McDonald's

no McDonald's that's for sure no McDonald's yeah they're working hard but it's like wait you guys actually like we were talking about earlier it's like it feels like it's all too much for us like they actually are handling it like they can handle the stress of their life

and it's adding to their health and yeah I don't even have all the answers to it right like I'm just someone fascinated by it too but it's really interesting and the other thing that I think is is like something that just stands out to me is that they all have this pace of life that's much slower than ours it's like there are these natural transitions within their day that I think we've lost in our modern society and they rest Like they rest on Sunday typically. Most of them are either Catholic or some type of religion that would that would consistently take a day off and just play, right? Or like be with family or drink wine and have good food, that kind of thing.

And it's some, it's it's not that hard or like crazy, but it is very different right than like our modern. I'm going to look into this. It's probably going to make me want to eat like more avocados or something, right? Like omega fatty and health and oh gosh, okay. This is, but, okay, I live in Canada and I live in this part of Canada like southwestern Ontario. That's very for us. It's very like city like. Everyone has perfectly manicured lawns.

It's lots of suburbia. Everyone's driving like fancy vehicles. It's very hustle and bustly. When we're walking down the street, it's very like, Everyone's walking fast. And I lived in New York for six months. And that's like on steroids. People in New York are just running. Everywhere they go, they're running. And if you step in front of a car, you're dead. Because the car is not stopping for you. Like you're always hyper aware at any moment you can die. There's some sort of like, frantic energy in New York. And I was like, this is toxic. And I come back to where I live and I'm like, oh, it's less toxic here.

But I go visit my brother in Nova Scotia, which is also in Canada. You get off the plane and it's everyone's slower. Everyone's walking slower. If you go to step off a curb in Nova Scotia, all the cars gently come to a stop for you. People open the door. Everyone's hi. And my husband noticed something as we were driving through the suburbs there to go to my brother's house. None of the lawns are perfectly manicured.

There's weeds. There's weeds in the gardens. Like the front door maybe isn't perfectly painted. It's very different there and everyone's smiling more and slower. It's culturally slower in the entire province. And I don't know what the difference is. It feels like they just have less pressure. They still have beautiful homes and great jobs and they still have a McDonald's, Maddie.

I just want to admit they still have a McDonald's. It's not a better. the food. And they still have stuff too. It's very much like, like everyone around just has less rush, less frantic energy to work harder. There's so much like, especially where I live and definitely in New York, it feels like the bigger the place, there's more like pride taken in how busy you are and how much you're juggling. They're like, how have you been? Oh, I'm so busy. Oh, me too. Yeah, we're so busy. It's not like. It's not like. like that there and everyone's smiling more.

Right. It's fascinating, I think, too. Like, I mean, I'm not a professional. So I don't even know if I can comment on this. But like, I just noticed that it's such common language now to talk about like, oh, like all of us have mental health problems now. It feels like. And these lifestyle changes, like, why don't, why don't, why aren't they being talked about? Like if we find a culture that people are smiling more, why are we not just like, hey, tell us everything.

We're open. Like we are open to whatever you want to teach us. And if it's like, hey, let your lawn go. Like don't worry about it. Like, you know, why don't we take that seriously? I don't know. Why is there less pressure there to have a perfect lawn in a perfect house? Right.

It's more like culturally acceptable, even though it's not that far away. It's just a different province to just be slower, to relax, to sit on their, everyone's sitting on their porch. They're like having a beer. They're just chatting. It's not like, what are you getting done this weekend? It's, you know, what are you doing this week? Are you fishing? Are you sitting and are you paddling around, you know, in the ocean?

It's very different lifestyle. And it's almost like we're confused here. My mom says all the time she'll come to visit. like you've got weeds in your front garden. I'm like, who cares? But you know, she's like, what will the neighbors think about it? You're like, oh, God. I do. I'm like, should I go out there and pull those weeds in the front garden? As people are coming over, you're like pulling weeds. So much pressure. I agree. I think there's a lot of external pressure and about looking perfect and living the American dream. Sounds like it's happening in Canada too.

It is. Working out. Working out. going to the gym. These people get up. They run a butt. I see these women just running before work or they're at the gym and they're like and they're busting their butts and then they're going to work all day and then they're coming home and they're like throwing together a meal and volunteering and doing all this crap and polishing their gorgeous mansions.

And I'm like, you are falling in bed and crying your eyes out. I know. You're crying yourself to sleep every night, man. It's crazy. It's crazy. I agree. I totally agree. I think, uh,

social media probably contributes now like back in the day like we would only try to keep up with our neighbors but now it's like we keep up with celebrities and everything everyone we've ever known and people we don't even know influencers that are only showing you a portion of their life and i yeah i do think that that is so heavy to to carry for all of us and um also yeah it just doesn't at all add to quality of life ultimately, I think you're right. Like, it can all look, people love to talk about balance, like, meaning I do it all, right? Like, I have balance in every area of my life. And you just, why?

Like, are you really fulfilled and living this rich, healthy, vibrant life? Are you enjoying your time with your kids? Are you satisfied with your marriage? Like, what about those things? Are you prioritizing rest? Right, right. Yeah, rest is like, lazy now. Like rest. Right. Yeah, rest gets a really bad. When you say someone's slow or like,

you tell someone like, oh, no, all I did this weekend was rest. It's like a little embarrassing, I think, for most of us. So I agree if we can have more conversations like this and just kind of start shifting the narrative or even just exposing people to the fact that like, hey, maybe just this is, how do you say it? Like common, but doesn't need to be normal. But does it need to be normal, then maybe it'll just start shifting perspective a little bit. Yeah. And I think it looks different for everyone. For me, like I call myself a burster.

So I will work hard for like a day and then take two days to like lay around and be, I don't want to say lazy, but I want to say lazy. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then that works for me. I recharge my battery and then I burst again. and I recharge my battery. And I think for other people, maybe it's just like consistent.

That's the whole thing. Everybody does it different. Right. And you got to kind of find what's working for you. But chasing other people, chasing you, the idealized version of you, I think is really toxic. And I know it was for me. Yeah, it made me sad because I felt like I was always trying to climb the top of the mountain. but there was never a top.

And I just instead took a shovel and made my mountain a lot smaller. Yes, right. And then you can summit it and you can get that satisfying feeling of like, no, I can manage my life. It's not going to be completely an out of control mess like that we just normalized in the modern world. That's not how life has to be at all. So someone listening who's feeling overwhelmed right now, they're listening to this

podcast, they're like, I am so stressed. I feel like I'm drowning. Let's give them some tangible things that they can do today this week, this month, to ease the burden a little bit. Like, what would you suggest if somebody, they can't, they can't go to six suitcases and go to Hawaii, right? But what can they do today to slowly start making their life feel like, a little bit slower and simpler? The first thing that comes to my mind is decluttering because I heard this from the minimalist, but I found it to be true for me that while you're decluttering,

and I'd be interested in know if this is true for you, like there's this psychological decluttering that occurs where it is, it's like when you have to finally confront those things you've been hanging on to, like you said, just in case, or just because it's, it's too painful to let them go. Something happens. And I don't know if I really even have words for it,

but it's very empowering. It forces you into the present moment. Like instead of hanging onto the past or fantasizing about the future, it's like, this is my first experiment with flexing these muscles of, no, this is my life right now. Let me think about who I am right now and what I want my life to be like right now. and it's physical, which I think feels really good to see progress like that. And it's hard for some people.

And I think starting with sentimental, obviously, is not the place to go. And if getting rid of clothes is hard for you, don't go there. I think you just like wherever you're standing close by while you're listening to this, open a closet. Open a cabinet. Yeah. Look at it differently. Great advice. Yeah.

Just grab something. And with confidence. trust yourself that you don't need it and let it go. And I'm not a minimalist, Maddie. I have a lot. I have a lot of stuff. I have, I have, I have, I'm like, I'm managing it without it feeling like work. Does that make sense? And I know when I start feeling like my life is heavy again, I've probably accumulated too much. Or I've taken on too much and I've got to put things down. So I've found this sort of like balance between, I still have stuff, but I can feel it in myself when I start feeling like life's a little heavy. And I just look around at my life. And sometimes it's not stuff I have to declutter. Sometimes it's people.

Sometimes it's commitment. Sometimes it's like workload. But I have to put something down. And that like thought process has like I got to scoop some buckets out of my sink in boat right? In the ocean. I have to like toss some things out. When I look at it that way, know it feels like a little bit easier it feels like less of like i have to let stuff go and only have six plates it feels more like what how can i lighten my life today yeah yeah instead of thinking about what works for other people i i like that yeah okay you have a course you have a free ebook um tell my listeners where they can find you and a little bit about your incredible course because i i I really do think you're just so, you're so inspiring and it's a realistic approach to simple living. Oh, thank you. That means so much to me.

I have a YouTube channel. It's just my name, Madison Gray, spelled with a you like the sun. And same with my Instagram so you can find me there. I have a start, like where to start with slow living video on my YouTube that I think if you're hearing this and you're like, wait, I've never even. heard of slow living or the thought like to just the permission to slow down kind of makes you want to cry like maybe start there because I know that's how I felt and I made that video with you in mind if you're there so I would say start there and like if it resonates with you then I do have a course that's like the life transformation that I wish I could have walked

with someone else through to kind of help me through the process to make it not take forward years, although I do believe that like when it's ripe, it's ready. You can't, you know, force things healing to occur. It's not linear. But it just kind of, I think, I hope, and I feel like I've seen what the women who have gone through it. Like it facilitates the process and offer support through our Facebook community page. And just it, by making the price point of the course, what it is, it makes it worth my time to engage with these women. like answer emails and yeah just like be be there for them as they go through their entire home and their life it's a life transformational process so i also have a free ebook it's just a decluttering

guide if you want to get started with decluttering i know cast has a lot of resources for that too you know what different people resonate differently and so i i think a rising tide raises all ships And if you are wanting to get organized and declutter and just simplify your life, I think you should listen to as many people as possible and follow as many people as possible until you find that that flicks the switch for you. And for me, it was Peter Walsh. And I've never even heard of him. Yeah, he's the whole reason I started decluttering and organizing. He changed my life. He's my hero.

And he just resonated with me. His words hit me in a way. think if you haven't found someone yet who hits you in that way, keep looking. And it might be Madison Gray. So thank you so much, Madison. Thank you for joining me today. And thank you everyone for listening. I'll put links in the show notes down below so you can find Madison. And again, I'll see you guys next time.