Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - Could you have ADHD? Let’s breakdown the signs with Tracy Otsuka | Clutterbug Podcast # 203

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

ADHD is one of the most common neurological disor­ders in the world, yet a staggering 75 percent of girls and women remain undiagnosed. Symptoms look different in women (it looks like anxiety, depression and issues with work­ing memory, sleep, energy, and concentration), so many ADHD women are left to navigate a society that fails to understand their struggles and gifts. Enter certified ADHD coach and podcast host Tracy Otsuka. Armed with her experience coaching thou­sands of women, cutting-edge medical research, and personal insights from her own diagnosis, she offers hope for women with ADHD. Learn more about Tracy and her new book ADHD for Smart Ass Women here: https://www.tracyotsuka.com/     You can find more Clutterbug content here: Website: http://www.clutterbug.me YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clutterbug TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/   #clutterbug #podcast     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, clutterbugs, welcome back to the clutterbug podcast. I'm excited today because I am interviewing an incredible person who's like campaigning for women with ADHD. You know that I've been recently diagnosed, so I'm so excited and passionate to talk to the incredible Tracy Otsuka. She has a podcast called ADHD for smart-ass women with over 5 million downloads. This is one of the great fastest growing podcast. I'm so thrilled. And also a brand new book coming out by the same name. This one's going to blow you away. Are you ready? Welcome, Tracy. I am just absolutely delighted to be here, Cass. I feel like every time I do these, there are people in the audience that are thinking ADHD, that is nothing to do with me. And by the end of the episode or the program or wherever I'm speaking,

they're like, oh my gosh, that's me. That explains everything that I was wondering about myself. So I am, I'm so excited to be here because I want to change more lives. I love this. Yeah, I recently just went to the ADHD convention in Baltimore. It was like the Chad big convention. And I'm going to tell you, I was diagnosed four years ago and I still don't know very much about ADHD. I really haven't really. researched a lot. I was diagnosed, but that diagnosis changed nothing and it changed everything because I finally forgave myself for years of just not being able to get my life together in the way that everybody else could. I want to talk about this because you specialize in ADHD for women.

Why is this so important? Like why does it look different and why does so many women get underdiagnosed, like undiagnosed, why? Why are we slipping through the cracks? So let me start out by saying that ADHD is, well, according to the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, isn't that the most awful name? Clinicians will diagnose ADHD based on these symptoms. Number one, you're hyperactive, you can't sit still. There can be inattention too, so the hyperactivity is in your brain. We'll talk about that in the second with respect to women. You're impulsive. So you don't think before acting. You just go out there and do things. And number three, you're distractible. So you struggle

with focus. The problem with women is that we tend to be twice, we have twice the number of inattention than men. We're diagnosed at the same rate, or we should be, because we have the symptoms at the same rate. But because clinicians don't understand what inattention looks like, women and girls were not being diagnosed. So a girl within a town of ADHD would look like that girl in the back of the classroom and she'd be in her head. She'd be thinking, thinking, thinking, creating this whole fantasy world in, you know, in her brain, kind of where she is. And all of a sudden the teacher will call on her. And she's like, me? Oh, and she doesn't even know what class she's in. Like, what are they even studying, right? Because she hasn't been focusing at all.

She's been in her head. For an adult woman, it can look a lot like the absent-minded professor. So in your zone of interest, your area of brilliance, you are just at the top, right? And people see that. Oh my gosh, she's so smart. She's really, like she knows that area. But then the other more basic things like keeping your home, like paying your bills, like making sure your car isn't a big disaster, that can be a struggle. And so people will look at you and think, well, she's doing it on purpose.

she's not trying hard enough. It's a character flaw. It's a moral failing. So because twice the number of girls have inattentive ADHD than boys, boys tend to be annoying, right? They're climbing up the walls. They're loud. They're, they might be aggressive. And so they externalize their symptoms because they're such a problem. Their parents, their teachers, their coaches, they're like fed up. And so they get the attention versus a girl who's in the back of the classroom and she's daydreaming, you know, yeah, her grades aren't that great. People probably think her, you know, her teachers probably think, oh, well, maybe she's not that smart. That's what her classmates think, which is far from the truth. But she's internalizing her symptoms, beating herself up,

thinking there's something wrong with me. Why can't I do what everybody else does? Why am I forgetting my homework? Why can't I focus in class? And so because they're internalizing those symptoms, they often get misdiagnosed with anxiety and depression. You know, it can become morbid, but more often than not, if you treat the ADHD symptoms, the anxiety and the depression resolves. The third reason that girls typically, you know, don't get diagnosed at the same rate as boys. 75% of women with ADHD are not diagnosed. So the third reason is that girls tend to be diagnosed later in life.

boys seven to nine, you know, you start seeing the symptoms come up for girls. You typically don't see the symptoms come up until puberty. And that is because what we are finally discovering is estrogen modulates dopamine. And what is going on with the brain is our brains are not making enough dopamine. They don't really know is that we're not making enough dopamine or we don't process it the way that a neurotypical, you know, brain would process it. So, you know, that's kind of it in a nutshell. What I will tell you, though, the three telltale signs of ADHD that nobody really talks about are, number one, unexplained underachievement. So again, think of that absent-minded professor, right?

In her area of genius or brilliance, she is a genius. but because all the other things don't really follow suit, maybe she's jumped around from career to career, people look at her and they're like, she should be more successful than she actually is. And even if you are classically successful, so the world will look at what you've accomplished and, you know, think, oh my God, she's amazing.

Inside, you have a lot of imposter complex, you know, a lot of perfectionism, and you're thinking, I could accomplish so much more. I am not living to my potential. The second thing, telltale sign is consistent inconsistency. So there are, again, certain things that the big, hard things, you're just knocking it out of the park, but the everyday stuff, you know, being on time, making sure that, you know, you got your kids to school when they're supposed to be, they've got their homework, they've got all their administrative paperwork, that stuff, we can't do so much. So it doesn't matter how successful you are. You're thinking, you almost discount the success because

you're so consistently inconsistent on all the other stuff, so you can't possibly be successful. And for kids, that can look like my son, who would get A's and D's in the same subject, in the same week. Like, again, it doesn't make sense, so people think they're not trying hard enough, they're doing it on purpose, there's something wrong with them. And then the third, one is typical productivity tips and tricks. They just don't work for us. You know, like, eat the frog. Oh my gosh, when I was writing my book, I tried so hard to do the writing first thing in the morning. And I couldn't do it, no matter how hard I tried. And I would beat myself up about it. And a month in, I just decided, you know what, I can't start until two o'clock.

And again, we can't start until two o'clock because of dopamine. There's, you know, there's not enough dopamine going off, you know, in our brain. So the workaround is you do the little thing first. You don't go do the big thing. You do the smallest thing you can possibly do. You check that off and guess what? That spikes your dopamine. Dopamine is the motivation neurotransmitter. It's the feel-good neurotransmitter that makes you kind of do the things. So if you keep jacking up your dopamine doing the next hardest thing or biggest thing, and then, you know, pretty soon by 2 o'clock, this big, huge monolithic thing that I was struggling with, there was enough dopamine. There was enough dopamine going on in my brain, firing in my brain, that I could do that thing. So I've gone on for a bit,

but does that explain ADHD a little bit better? It does. Yeah, I love your explanation because it really simplifies it. And I think a lot of people here, so here's what I've noticed, even, I had more traditional ADHD symptoms as a kid, extremely hyperactive, could not stop talking, annoyed everyone, constantly got moved, always like, yeah, constantly. For the entire grade 6, my desk was in the hall because I was so annoying. My teacher just made me to the hall. Yeah. So terrible, really.

So I had really traditional symptoms, but nobody really was talking about ADHD back then. I was just not, it wasn't a thing. And as I got older, I started maybe even 10 years ago, I was like, I think I have ADHD. And the narrative was everyone thinks they have ADHD. Oh, everybody has ADHD. So I felt a lot of shame even kind of going there. And then when my doctor, now this is not good, but he, I remember crying to him at 40, everything in my life is going so well, like professionally, but I can barely make it

anywhere on time. I don't know where my phone is. I have to set 50 million alarms just to remember what I'm doing in the day. I struggle to just, I feel like I have to use more tools than the average person to do average things. And he said, I think you have ADHD. I'm going to give you riddlin. And if it gets you high, you don't have ADHD. And if it calms you, you do have ADHD. And I did feel very calm. So that was kind of like my diagnosis at 40. But when I went to see an actually, I requested it to see a psychiatrist. And when I went to see an actual professional, listen to what he said to me,

I don't think you have ADHD because you're successful. Totally. Totally. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why when my son was diagnosed, and that is more, I mean, I've heard women tell me, they were told they can't possibly have ADHD because they graduated from college. Or they're not a disaster. One woman told me, she came in with her daughter and she said, the doctor, it was a male, of course. The doctor said, this was a psychologist, said, you can't pass, possibly, or maybe it was even a psychiatrist. I'm not sure. I don't remember. You can't possibly have an ADHD because I've been observing you and your daughter is all clean and dressed and you don't look like a mess. They don't understand it. What is this narrative? They don't understand. And what I said to this

doctor was, listen, I'm a high school, I flunked out of high school. I have. I have a, have a criminal record. I was homeless from 15 till 19. I'm all the classic things, except now I have tools. I work so hard. I was like, I had to have 10 alarms to go off just to remind me to show up to this appointment today. And I was still 15 minutes late. So I had to really fight him and explain all the ways that my brain, I have to overcompensate for my scattered brain, just so he could say, oh yeah, maybe you do. And I wonder how many other people are kind of dismissed as, no, you don't have ADHD. Everyone thinks they have ADHD. This is normal. This is normal to feel this way. Everyone feels this way. And so we're left like, oh, I guess I'm just not trying hard enough,

or I guess I just don't have enough self-discipline, or I guess I'm just not as good as other people in my life. because you know innately something is wrong. Yes, and it is so much more. I mean, you know, I'm the optimist, the happy, the like positive emotion, you know, how do we make ADHD work for us? But I don't want to discount the fact that 24% of women with ADHD will attempt suicide. It's a Canadian study, came out recently. This is serious.

and it's the shame. It's not only all the 88, and it's much more, women struggle with ADHD much more than men. And that is because not only do they have all the ADHD symptoms, but then they also have all the judgments and sexism and stereotypes from society, right? That girls are not allowed to be hyperactive

and kind of aggressive and balzy and asking for what they want and pushing themselves to the front of the line, hyperactive, right? They are supposed to be clean and neat and retiring and fit in and, you know, not talk too much and not be too loud. And so they get a lot of shame around that. Plus, they're supposed to be not only the executive functions, you know, the administrative CEO for themselves, but also for the household, for their kids and often for their partners. So men, men partners, right?

Yeah. So that is why the suicide risk is eight times higher for ADHD women than it is for ADHD men. It's all the shame that society piles on top. And so the two keys for me, because I would have never thought I had ADHD. I did well in school. But now when I go back and look at how hard I had to work, like, I just kind of glossed over it, right, compared to my friends who would literally, I would be studying for weeks before, had these incredible outlines tabed, highlighted, gone to note, you know, one page, then note cards. I mean, it was insanity. And my friends would take my, because my notes were so good, you know, everything was just so organized. They would take those, they would study the night before and they would get, like, I would get an A minus and they would get

an A or I would get a B plus and they would get an A minus. They would do better than I did after weeks, you know, of putting all of this together. And part of it is my really, really poor working memory. But the key was for me, when I found out that drivenness is a form of hyperactivity, that was game-changing because I was nothing, if not driven. You would have looked at my life. You know, I'd been a lawyer. I went to law school. I went to graduate law school. I practiced law. I had a high-end women's wear company. 60% of our business was Saxonyman Nordstrom. When the real estate market went to hell, I worked for two dozen banks selling their aureos and distressed properties. I, you know, I was, if nothing, a doer. And I was constantly action-oriented. And I could see that I was not like

any of my friends who, you know, had kids and everything just seemed so easy and light. And here I was driving and driving, right? Drivenness is a form of hyperactivity. So you see a lot of very successful ADHD women and men, but, you know, we work with women, ADHD women that when you look at them, you're like totally, oh my gosh, but inside, you know, there's that imposter complex. There's this idea that I know I could do so much better. I know I've done these things, but I always felt like, and I've heard this from so many ADHD women, and it's almost embarrassing for us to say, we feel like we're always destined for more. Like we're dead. And it's because what I always say is where ADHD women struggled is when they're trying to fit in. And that is because they're

not meant to fit in. They are meant to stand out. So, the beauty of the ADHD brain is it's a brain of interest. So the average, neurotypical brain, it's a brain of importance. Because your parents, your teachers, your coaches, your boss, your husband, wife, whatever, thinks, partner, thinks that you should do this thing. You just do it. Our brains are brains of interest. We can't do that. we have to be interested in the thing to do it, or we have to learn the strategies to make ourselves interested in the thing that maybe we want to do for our partner or we want to do for our kids because we just, it's hard for us to do, but we want to do it, right?

So we have to learn those strategies. Otherwise, we can't do it. And it's not a character flaw. It's not a moral failing. It's neurobiology. So once we understand that we have these. interest-driven brains, number one. We all have that, everybody with ADHD. And that's why, you know, like the education system, it goes wide instead of deep. So we have to study all this,

am I allowed to swear here? Yeah, so go for it. We have all these shit things that we need to study that we could give a crap about, right? But if we can get up higher in education, the people with ADHD who get to the master's and the PhD level, they are typically, studying what they love, and then we are brilliant at it. So that really is the key. It's interest, and then the second one is our brains thrive in positive emotion, and we positively wilt in negative emotion. What do most ADHD kids get? Supposedly, and this is just boys, boys by the time they're 10, get 20,000 more negative messages than a neurotypical child, your average child without, you know, neurodiversity would get. What do you know,

you think that does to self-esteem and confidence and, you know, it's really, it's really awful. And again, I mean, our school system, it's just a social construct. Like, how did we decide that this is how we're going to choose who's smart and who's not smart? Yes. Thank you. It's so, like, sit still, be quiet, have a good memory. Sit still, be quiet, have a good memory and you succeed in life, be interested in things, want to move around, be excited about things and you're bad. Like what? My whole childhood, I was told I was annoying probably 50 times a day by everybody, not just adults, parents, teachers, but peers as well because I was so excitable all the time. And I think that even to this day, people are like, calm down. Oh, you're so excellent.

extra. You're so extra. This is what I've been told constantly by everyone. And I was on your website and you had this this pink sheep and it said, are you extra or are they just basic? And I smiled so big because that's the narrative I've been told my whole life. I'm too much. Be less by everyone. And I try to be less so I don't irritate those around me. I like to sing show tunes at regular times and feel like a little bit. And I've worked hard my whole life to kind of be less like that. And I went to this ADHD convention and people were like dancing and everyone had brightly colored hair and it was like la. And I cried, Tracy.

I cried my eyes out so many times because I was like, these people are weirder than me. Yeah, I'm normal. And I'm the boring one in the room. I know. And it was so emotional for me because I have spent my whole life trying to be more normal, all trying to contain the weird and the obnoxious and the inappropriate things that come out of my mouth and I drop F bombs all the time and I'm just like I don't think and I'm just like I'm always like

so much that I can tell on people's faces whether it's the person even at the grocery store. They're like calm down, be quiet. sit still. Do you sometimes feel like you just kind of blow in like the North Wind and everybody is like, you know, their backs up against the wall because it's just too much energy. Too much energy. And you know what? I think what the narrative I've heard from people my whole life is when I first meet someone, they are very attracted to that energy. They're like, ah, you know. And so when I first meet someone, they're like, oh my God, you're amazing. I want to hang out with you. But then after two hours, they're exhausted of me.

Like I'm, I'm too much for them. And my daughter, I have two daughters. One is like, was diagnosed with anxiety and OCD and depression. But now that I'm learning about ADHD, I realize that I think she has ADHD and she's just internalized the hyperactivity and it's anxiety. But my other daughter. Or she has inattentive ADHD, right? So you're not, she's not going to be like you were as a child.

She's going to be more reserved. shy. She is. So I never would have thought she had ADHD. And then I look at my other daughter who's extra and she's, you know, all the time. I'm like, well, she definitely has ADHD. But she's doing really well because she loves excelling at school. So she's like a little psychopath about school. So she does all her homework and she does all her things and she makes all her color corded notes. She sounds a lot like you. So she's kind of hyper focusing on school. So she's, She's doing really well. But she came home the other day, both of them struggled with friendships for their own reasons.

And she came home the other day and said, my best friend told me sometimes she just can't be around me or have sleepovers with me because I exhaust her. You know? And I said, yep, I know exactly how you feel. There is nothing wrong with you. But I've heard that same thing. You just need some ADHD friends. Yeah, but she finds 80s. She has a friend with ADHD a lot too. So that's just it. We're a lot, but it's okay to be a lot. And yeah, I would

love to hear your thoughts on this because looking at your website and listening to your podcast, this is the same thing a lot of women are saying that they've heard in the past or, yeah, just this negative narrative about their personal, their fundamental personality. So I'm confused. What's the question? Are we talking about ADHD women? Yeah. Have you heard this a lot from other women too? Or is this just my kind of experience? Like, oh no, no, no, no. This is it. This is totally it. And I love what you said at the beginning that people meet you and they are just blown away by you because you're so interesting. And I suspect you're also very interested. You know, the other thing we have is interpersonal. communication. Wait, interpersonal intuition. Interpersonal communication too, but, um, inter, what did I just say? Interpersonal intuition and communication. I think I know what you're saying. Like, sometimes I'm around people and I just like can intuitively connect with them and I'm like, yeah, pick up things. I find really fascinating about them. I'll tell you why. If you think about it,

if you could not rely on your brain when you were young, right? You couldn't rely that your brain was actually going to do what you wanted it to do when you wanted to do it. What you start to do is rely on your intuition to figure things out. And so it makes perfect sense that we would have this heightened interpersonal intuition. I finally got it right. Word hole. And so what were we talking about? Part of it.

So you feel all, you know, you bring all this energy. Part of it is people don't even say anything. You feel it, right? You can feel that you're overwhelming certain people. But I think that's why, again, we have to lead, not follow. Because that amount of energy is what is required of a leader. So this huge platform you've built doing what you love, what you're interested in a neurotypical couldn't do that. I absolutely believe that most entrepreneurs are

somewhere on the spectrum because ADHD is a spectrum. You can have a little bit of symptoms that actually really serve you well. Like when I was younger, it was primarily the drivenness, the hyperactivity that really helped to push, you know, my whole life forward, even though some people would look at it, neurotypicals, and they'd be like, oh my gosh, she's all over the place. She did this and she did that, you know. But it all comes together, as Steve Jobs says, you can't look ahead and see your path. You got to turn around and then you're like, oh, well, I did this for this reason and I learned this. You know, it's all learning, right? And we're lifelong learners. We love that's what's so awful about the education system. We are the biggest learners.

If you let us learn, we are interested in what we want to learn about. So in, you know, in response to your question, what you are telling me is what I hear all. all the time. Now, the, I'm having problems with words. The inattentives, I think, tend to struggle much less with fitting in and social dynamics because they're more retiring, they're shire, they sit back, they don't really, you know, they don't have to be the center of attention. They don't, they don't pop up with, you know, oh, this idea, or, no, let's not do it this way, let's do it that way. So they're easier to get along with. right versus I think it's the hyperactive, hyperactive impulsive types that struggle more because we can't

just fit in. It's impossible for us, right? And that can be annoying. It can be annoying. That's the narrative I'm hearing. It can be annoying. But it's really funny because it is also something people are very attracted to. But they're like, oh, you're so fun. This is amazing. And then they're like actually, actually, no, actually could you not be like that. So I've tried my whole life to be a little bit different. So if you're listening to this podcast and you're like, I'm not hyper like that. That doesn't mean you don't have ADHD. You may be the other side of that, which is the more reserved, more introspective,

more internal chaos in your brain, daydreaming. overthinking, you know, you're very sensitive to criticism. There's something called rejection sensitive dysphoria that they say is only with ADHD. And so that would look like you go to a party. And, you know, you're doing whatever you do. And then you go home, you wake up the next morning and you are overthinking everything that happened at that party. Why did I do this?

Why did that person do that? And so the hyperactivity is there, but it's in your brain rather than, you know, exclusively in your body. So for us that are hyperactive, what we've discovered is that action is what fires our dopamine, which remember is the neurotransmitter we don't make enough of. And so that is why we are classically successful because we're just on to the next thing because we're constantly dopamine seeking, right? Yes, exactly. And you can be dopamine seeking in a bad way, too.

a way that doesn't serve you, meaning addiction. And it's all tied to ADHD. But you can also be dopamine seeking in a way that works for you. So you are achievement oriented. You're driven. You're an entrepreneur. You're doing all those things. And guess what?

That is what keeps you out of your brain overthinking. And so that's how we learn to stay out of that brain because my brain can get kind of, you know, creative and anxious. and if I think too, if I'm there too much. Yeah, I love that. I definitely think my oldest daughter, who's the more reserved, shy, internalized hyperactivity? She was, like I said, diagnosed with anxiety and OCD and depression on a ton of different medications, none of which are doing really anything at all.

And now I'm starting to think, is this, does she need a stimulant? Instead of toning, she's trying to tone her. Does she need a stimulant? but it's been very hard to find a doctor who's willing to diagnose her because her grades are okay and she isn't hyperactive. It's like it's bananas. But she definitely has this rejection sensitivity, I think. Now again, I hate, I'm like these couch people who diagnose from WebMB. I know what you're, I know, but listen. If someone doesn't text her back immediately, what she's saying is, I keep thinking they hate me and they don't like me. Or she'll

interpret things, you know, like, oh, they don't want to hang out tonight. Maybe they don't like me, maybe this, or even if they say anything that even is like remotely, even constructive criticism, she really takes it as a blow and it just takes all the wind out of her sales. She, it's very odd. And I was like, oh, maybe she's just extra sensitive. But no, maybe she has this rejection sensitivity because she has ADHD. So hyper-sensit. sensitivities is an ADHD characteristic or trait. And again, you know, you know that ADHD is hereditary, right? Oh, yeah, totally.

So if I had it. Yeah. And it sounds like you had pretty extreme ADHD. I mean, until you were able to channel it in a way that worked for you, you know, you struggled with it. I just can't even imagine, though. I still struggle every day. So I take medication. I take a stimulant, which is a little bit helpful. But it is not a cure. Let me tell you that. I still have to have multiple, multiple, multiple alarms, reminders,

email reminders, notes. I have a terrible working memory, as you say. And so I need notes and lists and notes and lists and then reminders of the notes and lists and then double back reminders. And I still misplace and forget things all day long. It's a struggle for me. But I am such a dopamine addict that professionally it looks like I'm being really successful because I'm like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this and I don't overthink it and I just throw it at the wall. And one of these is going to work out because I've tried 50,000 things. And one of those things is going to seem like I've done an okay job. And you can see how someone like you, who is traditionally successful, maybe not traditionally as far as the route, right, but successful. Oh my gosh, what was I just

going to say? What were you saying before this? That I'm a hot mess disaster with no memory, and I'm loving you right now that you are also so. You're like my, it's amazing, though, because you are so successful and a lawyer and you have this gorgeous website and this incredible podcast. But you're like unabashedly, yeah, I struggle to also remember things. My working memory is so bad. And the saddest part is before puberty. I was not only the lead in the English speaking plays. My mom was German. I was also the lead in the German speaking plays. I, I could memorize anything. And literally 13 years old,

I remember I was giving a book report and I couldn't remember anything and I had cheated. I hadn't read the book. So there wasn't even anything to connect to. It was just what I had memorized in my brain. I remember that Mrs. Schumann wrote disturbed speaker and I was used to getting A's, right?

So that killed me. And so ever since then, I'm always hyper-prepared, over-prepared. because it gives me anxiety, you know, not to be. But after that, I couldn't even remember a chorus of my favorite song. That's how bad my working memory is. Yeah, I can't remember song lyrics. I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

I can't remember. I'll be watching a movie and not being able to remember the name of the movie or the book that I'm reading or the names of the characters in the book that I'm reading. And I will meet you and you will tell me your name and I will not remember it. And I have to repeat it constantly in my brain to try to remember. someone's name and like come up with a like way of tying it to a story or something it's i have to overcomplicate every freaking thing um can we talk just for a second about medication and and because there's a lot of stigma attached to medication and the narrative i hear from people a lot is like

oh you're just throwing meds at kids when they really just need to exercise or you know you're turning them into zombies what i'd love to hear your thoughts on medication, why it works? Maybe you think it doesn't work. Just your general thought on it. So this is really interesting because medication does not work for me. But for whatever reason, the powers that be decided that I was going to go to a different psychiatrist.

And you know, you're a guinea pig, right? So for 70% of people, medication actually works pretty well. For 30% of us, you know, the symptoms, the negative symptoms from the medication may be worse than the medication. for me, everything makes me anxious. I can't even drink coffee, which is, you know, a form of stimulant, right? So where was I going with this as far as? So I tried and tried and tried.

And then I ended up going to a new psychiatrist to try more. And she prescribed Ritalin. For whatever reason, you know, that's usually the first, Adderall or Ritalin is usually the first line of defense. If Adderall doesn't work, then they'll try Ritalin. My psychiatrist never did that. So I tried Ritalin and I was giving a speech. And of course, I couldn't memorize the speech to save my life.

I had just weeks and weeks of preparation. Yeah. And so I got the prescription for Ritalin. I was driving home and I had taken it. And it was literally like the sky opened up and it was like, ah, all the fog was gone. I recited that speech word for word five times in the row by the time I got home. It was kind of, it was like an hour away. I knew it cold.

Do you know it never worked again? And I am, but I am so appreciative that it worked that one time because I would probably be like, oh, medication, I don't know, you know, pharmaceutical companies, because I feel that way about a lot of things, right? You know, that we're just on all this medication instead of figuring out, okay, what is the problem, you know, instead of just masking it, you know, the symptoms. So I'm really grateful for that experience because I have seen it's individual. And that's the thing.

Just because it works for one person, it doesn't work for the other person. And that's how ADHD is. You've met one person with ADHD. You've met one person with ADHD. And that's exactly what makes it so hard to diagnose. So I have seen women that are crawled up in a ball that are so depressed, so anxious, they can't even go out of the house. and they are put on medication and literally it's like someone switched something on and it's,

you don't even recognize that person. So as much as obviously, it would be great if you can build those new neuropathways because we know with neuroplasticity we can change our brain, that would be the best, right? But I think medication, I know that this is what happened with my son, he only took it for a couple months. And all of a sudden he came to me and he said, mom, now I know what to do. I just didn't know what to do before, but the medication taught me what to do. And for other people, medication is something. They take their entire life and they swear by it.

They feel great on it. It's all individual. You know, but the problem is the media, right? It's just all the scare tactics and what's going to get people to be most up in arms. It's like that psychologist who wrote that article, I don't know, in like 20, 12, 10 years ago, 13, 11 years ago, who said there is no ADHD in France. And so this is an American thing. And it's like, well, yeah, but if you do the research, you discover that, okay, no ADHD.

And it's getting a lot better, by the way. But then ADHD really wasn't being diagnosed in France. But you know what they had? A lot of anxiety, a lot of depression, a lot of addiction issues. Because it's like whackamol, right? You keep it down in one area. It's going to come up in another area. It's all about our nerve system.

and regulating our nervous system. And when we learn how to do that, everything that gets better. And so I will never say, I'm for medication, I'm against medication. That is your individual decision. If it works for you,

what I'm about is positive emotion. So if you feel really good on medication, go for it. And I will tell you, I'm still looking. And if I could find a medication that if I had to give a speech or if I had to do, write another book,

You know, long form writing, I could take medication to help me. I would be the first in line. So that's how I feel about medication. I mean, it's not a- I love that. I love that. So I had the same experience the first time taking riddlin. And then after that, yeah, it was great.

But eventually, like I didn't get that same thing. But my doctor was like, you shouldn't be on riddlin as an adult. I guess it's not great for long-term use in adults. So I switched to concert in. And then I switched to buy vans. And here's my experience. with medication. I don't notice a difference when I take it, but I notice other people around me will say things. Like, you didn't take your meds today. And those are the days I didn't take it.

So I don't personally notice a difference, but people around me say that I'm less distracted, that my memory is slightly better and I'm less annoying. But that being said, I don't take it every day. I take it only when I'm going to be around other people that I'm. I might like if I'm going, yeah. You need to be around different people. Or if I'm doing something really boring. Oh, that's so sweet. But I mean, also like if I'm doing something really boring, if I have to like sit in a conference or something or if I have to write another book, I'm sorry, put a gun to my head.

I like the idea, but I hate the process. So I'll take a pill and I'll do a little bit. It improves a little bit. But I love that you're like, well, it's not. everyone because what I found is taking it every day, I just didn't want to and I didn't remember to take it. And I just was like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're always talking about addiction, right? That, oh my God, you know, we're creating a nation of addicts. It's like, well, if we were addicted, we wouldn't forget to take it, you know? Like, come on. And what my doctor explained was this

type of stimulant isn't something like other brain medications where you have to take it every day to see that long-term effects. It is something that you. Yeah. It is something that you. you can take here, you can take a break, you can take it. It's like putting on glasses. Totally. It, it, it, a hundred percent is, which made me feel a lot better about the medication as a whole. This isn't something that you have to take and then worry you can never come off or it's going to change you in some fundamental way. It's literally like putting on glasses. Someday you might want to, someday you might not, some of me you might forget. There's no wrong way to do it. So I love that. Okay. For my listeners, can I, can I just, um, one final,

comment about medication, especially if you have kids. What I see often is parents forcing their kids to take stimulant medication, ADHD medication, frankly, any kind of medication. And the kid is fighting it. They hate it. They don't want to be on it. Listen to your kid, right? Because if it's not, I mean, I just think about for a whole year, I was on all these different medications. And I got so far afield from what it, I didn't even remember. what it felt like to feel good. Because I was, you know, we're driven. We can be, right? If we're hyperactive impulsive. I was driven. I was going to figure this out. Damn it, if, you know, you know, right? And all of a sudden, I realize that I'm anxious all the time. I feel like crap.

And so if your kid is feeling that way and telling you that, medication doesn't work for them. And it's making things worse. What I wanted to ask you is, do you work out first thing in the morning. I don't work out at all. I hate working. I should. Everyone says I know. Okay, wait, wait, wait. But you need to understand why you need to work out. To having people tell you, oh, you need to work out. It's like, shut up. I'm going to, I definitely challenge the status quo. So if someone's telling me you have to do something, I'm going to do the opposite, just because I can. And it sounds like you're a bit like that, too. So exercise. And it's moving your body. And so all you have,

have to, so I literally get up in the morning and it's like, I've changed my brain to the point of, I feel like an, what are those automaton? I just get up and I go right to my gym. Because exercise, remember, none of that medication works for me. It does not spike my dopamine. It makes me anxious. It makes me worse. So exercise at 70% of your max heart rate for 25 minutes is like a course of Adderall and a course of Zola. at the same time, only 25 minutes at 70% of max heart rate. So when you start thinking of moving your body, forget exercise, that sucks, that word, when you start thinking of it like medicine, like it's going to benefit your brain,

the more you do it also, it will change your brain so you will start to crave it. but I believe the best thing you can do, and there have been studies around this, and it consolidates learning, it does all kinds of things. It helps with working memory. And it's really the number one thing that I do. And I do it first thing in the morning because what it does is it jumpstarts the dopamine, right? And so then when I sit down to do that first little thing, I'm at a level of dopamine that makes sense. And then I do a little bit, you know, that next thing.

And then that next thing. so that finally the dopamine is popped up high enough that when I need to do that big, awful scary thing, it's so much easier. But it truly is the best thing you can do. Do you know in the UK, if you're depressed, they will not prescribe SSRIs and, you know, medicine for depression as a first line of defense. The first thing they will do is they will write you a prescription to exercise. It is literally life-changing for mood, for all kinds of.

mental health for memory, for, you know, focus, for everything. So I'll get off my platform now. I've heard this. I know. And the truth is I'm not a morning person. So I don't really get that kick of energy till like two, three o'clock in the afternoon. But that's not traditional life schedule. I have employees who show up at nine.

I got to do the nine to five. And it sucks. Okay. So maybe. If I worked in the morning, yeah, I could, I could jumpstart my, because now, like, I'll have energy at 10 o'clock at night. I'm like, want to do stuff. And that's when I should go to bed. And that is completely exercise, sleep, and getting out in nature first thing in the morning light.

It's all a cycle. And so you're right. You start out working out in the morning, your circadian rhythm, you're going to get tireder earlier in the evening. And you'll be less likely, unless you're writing a book, to be staying up until all hour. of the night. It's all connected. Okay, Tracy, I'll give it a try. Okay, but Cass, you can't do something you hate to do. So what would you actually like to do? I mean, take a dance class, you know, just go walk out in nature. So if you do your exercise with, you're moving your body, with nature, you get a double whammy because guess what? Nature spikes dopamine too. Yeah,

I'm going to look for something. I know it's got to be fun. I don't like. I don't like. people. I don't like leaving the house. I don't like cold. I don't like hot. I don't like sweating and I don't like moving. So what about a peloton? I've heard. I know. I've heard of what I do. I'm going to, I've heard the peloton because there's people like shouting at you and it's exciting and they okay. There's a guy Cody. There's a guy Cody who is friggin hilarious. He's so inappropriate. He's so ADHD. You would love him. He's gay. He comes with the painted. nails and he's got all this energy and he's just so fun. Okay.

I've heard this that the pellet, like having the somebody there in your home, but like connecting with them and they're like, come on, yeah, is probably I could see that's what I need. My fear is I do this. I buy things and then I don't do it and then I just continue to pay for it till the end of time because I forget to cancel the. Or it's too big of a hassle to figure out how to cancel it, right? Well, don't you have a dog? Don't you walk your dog? Nope. I throw a ball for her. I throw a chucket ball for her. And I hate every minute that I do it, but I love her enough to get my butt out there and do it for her. Yeah. I have like, I have a mental block when it comes to exercise. I know I do. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's my mindset when it comes to exercise. Totally is. Okay. Listen, we're going to be ending soon. So I want you to. to talk to my listeners and maybe I guarantee they're like, do I have it? Do I not? Let them know

how they can find you, find more information so they can get to know themselves a little bit better and maybe make a more educated decision about where they go with getting a diagnosis or even treating it at home like they have it because they have nothing to lose. Yeah, yeah. Well, probably the first place they should go is, well, of course, they should buy my book, ADHD for Smart Ass Women. So let me tell you what the URL is. It is ADHD for smartwomen.com forward slash book. And if you go there, there are all kinds of bonuses for the cost of a $28 book that are free. And one of the, the first one is, what does ADHD look like in women? And it's a training that I do that is really helpful if you're thinking, well, maybe, but I resonate with some of this,

but I'm not sure. The next thing I would say is start listening to my podcast. I know that if it resonates with you, you are going to start to see yourself not only in me, because maybe I don't quite, you know, fit the bill, but definitely in my guess. And that's what I hear over and over again. So those are the two places that I would send people right now, and maybe in some, which is at Tracy Otsuka. Thank you. I'm going to pre-order your book right now. I am so excited.

It actually comes out on Boxing Day. Congratulations. You're an absolute treasure troll, not just of knowledge, but like you, I feel like you're my people. You're my tribe. And I hope people listening or watching this if you're watching it are feeling the same thing that you don't. You're not extra.

maybe everyone else is basic. Yes, absolutely. There is nothing wrong with you. No. You are amazing just the way you are. We might just need some new tools for our toolbox to help us make life a little bit easier. And I think embracing the things that make us so awesome is also really important. I got to stop trying to keep myself small for other people. Yes, yes. And like you said, maybe find new people. Yeah, absolutely. Environment. Tracy. Absolutely. Thank you, Tracy. I'm going to work out tomorrow morning just for you. I'm going to think of you. Call it something different. You need to cut, like it's all up here. It's the thoughts around, right? But once you connect, I'm going to do

this whatever and how do I feel after? Connect those two things because you're doing it for your brain to feel good. You're right. I can see myself getting addicted. I mean, I used to hate housework. I hate it. I hated cleaning and decluttering and organizing kill me now. Now I see the benefit and I'm like, oh my, this is, it's like, it's like dopamine for me. I'm like addicted to doing it because it feels so good. The results feel so good. So does smoothing your body. Okay. You may have just cracked me after 43 years, this might be what I need to do. So I just have an episode on exercise. Listen to that. Because there's the science behind it, too. I'm going to listen to that. And I just love spending time with you. Honestly, thank you. You're so inspirational and motivating and knowledgeable.

This has been awesome. Thank you. And thank you, everyone listening. We'll see you guys next time. Thank you. Bye-bye.