Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - Create a Simplified Home with A to Zen Life | Clutterbug Podcast # 192

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

In today's podcast, I talk with Marissa from A to Zen Life about simplifying your home and life through minimalism. Marissa released 95% of her belongings and the results have been incredible. Listen and get tips and inspiration on how to simplify your life too!  Follow A to Zen Life on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/@AtoZenLife     You can find more Clutterbug content here: Website: http://www.clutterbug.me YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clutterbug TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/   #clutterbug #podcast   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, clutterbugs. Welcome back to the Clutterbug podcast. Today is a good one because I'm doing interviews. It's been a while since I've got to chat with somebody on the podcast. So I'm so excited today to talk with Marissa from A to Zen Life. She is a fellow YouTuber and minimalist extraordinaire. And she's here to talk to us about simplifying our lives and just making life easier. So hi, Marissa. Welcome. Hi, Cass. So excited to be talking to you again. Yeah, I like chatting with you. You've had big changes. So the last time I talked to you, you lived overseas. Yes. And you were like living that whole minimalist lifestyle over there. And now you've moved back to America. But I don't want to talk about that yet. I want to talk about like right from the beginning if you're cool with that. Because why did you decide to be a minimalist? And were you always a person? it was kind of a minimalist or were you chaotic? I want to hear your origin story. Oh, I love this question. No. I and I actually didn't even mean to become a minimalist. It was actually a completely accidental and organic experience. So to answer your question, no, I've not been. I'm not a naturally like organized or tidy person. In fact, I've talked about it on my channel, but I realized

that hoarding runs in my family and that I my father was probably like a level three at the time of his passing hoarder and I still have living relatives who are still there. So growing up, it was just like normal to keep everything. Like we literally, we had two barns. My dad was a landscaper, but we had two barns. One barn was with the stuff that worked and one barn was with the stuff that was like broken or needed fixing and, you know, the rusty jars of rusty nails and like, you know, all the worn out equipment, lawn mowers that are meaning to be fixed.

So us as kids, too, we would just like keep everything. Like even when we outgrew them, just shoved them to the backs of the closets. And my childhood bedroom was just like it would have like clothes like piled up the wall, like the corner. You know how like you pile it and it just kind of turns into a mountain like comes a triangle. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Oh, and under the bed, I would just like shove things under the bed. And my, my girlfriend joke that if we took out the box springs, that back in the day, my high school friend would say, oh, we take out the box springs and this that will still stand up by itself. So no, not a naturally messy person. So I started decluttering after we had just had our second son and moved to Indiana. And we had had to move all of our stuff, which was a lot. And I had moved, we moved into a townhouse. And I was also at that time, so living in Chicago, I had like had a smaller,

place with my husband. I had been living in apartments, but I had a lot of stuff at other people's houses because I don't know if you know this or whatnot, but both of my parents passed away. My mom died when I was nine. My dad died when I was 23. And then like I lost a lot of grandparents also in the space of that one year. So I had a lot of stuff, but because I was a poor college student, I couldn't like carry it with me. So I had it living in other people's basements, other people's closets. And it's just kind of like scattered here and there. So finally when we moved back to Indiana, which is my home state, I started bringing all of that stuff back into one place. And that's when I realized, holy crap, I have a lot of stuff. And so I was talking with my neighbor about it. And she had just

downsized from a five-bedroom home. She was an empty nester. And she referred me to Marie Condo's book, The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up. I was like, this is exactly what I need. So I started decluttering without any thought of becoming a minimalist. I didn't even know minimalism was like a thing. and then this turned into a multi-year project, which finally culminated in us getting rid of 95% of our stuff and moving to Germany, which is where my husband's entire family lives. 95%. I didn't realize it was that much. It's like basically everything. I know. It's basically 100. That's a crazy amount of stuff. The thing is, like, I, it wasn't just my stuff too, right? It was also the stuff from my parents and a lot of grandparents and just like a lot of sentimental stuff. from them that I couldn't let go of. And so when we finally finished decluttering all of that stuff and I was kind of thinking about it, I think, yeah, 95% is a pretty good estimate. And the great thing is that we

really kept it away after getting rid of it too. That's one of the questions I was going to ask you. Yeah. So was this like this wasn't an overnight thing then decluttering for you. It was kind of like one day you'd get rid of one thing and then that felt good and you kept letting go. So did this was this like a multi-year process to get down to 95%? Did you do like an initial big declutter and notice a big difference? Or was it slow and steady? It was. So I think there were several things that I didn't know that could have sped up the process

and that I kind of learned slowly along the way. I think it's like that's why I'm so passionate about helping people now because it's like I had that one book. And Marie Kondo is like, oh, it's a sprint, you know? So she put like, it's like, do it fast. But for me, it didn't really work. And I think now that she has kids, she also is a little bit more realistic about like what it's like decluttering and keeping your home cluttered free with children. But for me, there was like a lot of two steps forward, one step back kind of going.

And a lot of this stuff I was figuring out on my own still too. And it was like a process of trial and error. Like I still, for example, would take things to the thrift store to drop them off. but then I'd go in the thrift store and look for things about it because I can't, like, I couldn't resist a good deal back then. You know what I mean? No, I totally know what you mean. Yeah, I know. It's bad. I've been slowly giving up my thrift store addiction. But I still have, I still bring in too much. So I'm definitely not a minimalist. I don't feel that desire to be a minimalist, I'm lazy. So for me, I saw the correlation between decluttering and life being easier.

Yeah. But I still want all the, I wanted all the good stuff in life. I wanted a clean house. I just didn't want to clean my house. I wanted nice things. I just didn't want to have to work for nice things. It was like, I lived a long time in this victim mentality of why is everything a disaster? Why is my life such a mess? It's not fair. Other people have things. I don't have, but I certainly don't want to work for it. And the shortcut for me to getting a tidy house and a clean house was decluttering. And I definitely did not go as far as you at all, but it's really apparent when you start to let go because every day is a little easier to find things, to put things away. The house doesn't get as messy. It's very addicting.

when you start to notice the correlation. Did you feel that kind of like, wow, decluttering is making an impact. I want more of this good thing? Yeah. And for me, because I had been carrying a lot around of stuff from my parents and my grandparents, like, it's hard to explain, but I guess I was using those things as a substitute for the people that I had lost and that I missed very deeply. It was actually a very hard time, a very hard experience to, like, lose my parents so early. And then the year that I lost my dad, he passed away from

alcoholism. He was in a lifetime alcoholic. I should have brought some Kleenexes to this interview. It's okay. So the year that he died, I actually ended up losing then like my grandfather, a grandmother, another grandmother. His mom actually was diagnosed with lung cancer six months after he passed, chose not to treat it. She passed very fast. And then, you know, some family friends and coworkers and stuff, eight people in one year. So that was a really tough time for me. And so I had all these things. And I just felt like I couldn't let go of them because that's all I had left, you know? That's all you had. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sentiment. mental. So you did. Yeah. So it was like cathartic because you also had to be like my memories aren't my stuff.

Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, wow, like a full cleanse. I'm so sorry. But that, I mean, now you're in a position to really help other people who, because this is a very normal thing that I hear a lot, especially if I am with clients. the emotion of, well, this was my mother's. I can't do that to her by letting it go. Even though I don't want to hold on to it, it felt disrespectful. But guilt. Disrespectful. Dishonor.

Dishonor, right? Like, oh, I get it. I totally get it. You know, I get it so deeply. I had so much of that. But what I had to realize is, like, I'm curating my life like a museum of other people's stuff. Like I'm living to take care of other people's stuff. What I should be doing is creating a life where I'm surrounded by the stuff that makes me happy or is functional and practical for me and fills me in my home with joy instead of, you know, feeling like I always have to keep this thing.

Instead, I found great joy in sending them on to make other people happy. And I actually, another thing that slowed down my decluttering process is I was very hands on with selling things. And I know a lot of people want to go fast. And so they donated a lot, which I'm totally okay with. But for me, it was very healing to, like, directly sell things to people. So I sold a lot of stuff on eBay. I sold a lot of stuff on Facebook marketplace. And I got the sweetest messages about people who were, like, so appreciative.

I sold around the world. Like, I sold to people in Italy, Korea. You know, I sent something to Australia once because you can ship, like, everywhere. And I would get these nice little messages back. And I'm just like, now I know it's going on to make someone else happy. That's actually really beautiful. Usually I recommend not selling every little thing because of the time involved. But for you, it really was part of like this process for you, this healing process, this letting go, this growing as a person.

So I love that. I love that because someone listening, that might be the path that they need to take to. And it isn't a race to the finish line. Absolutely. The whole point is, yeah, the journey. You're right. It's, that's really beautiful. I love that.

And actually, I do have some tips to like for people who do want to sell and they want to do it faster. Something I say is always like bundle things. So like growing up in the 80s and 90s and like our family being hoarders, we were taught stuff was the most valuable thing. Right. It's like get as much stuff as you can. You know, and this stuff is going to be. be worth money someday. That's for the message I got. So like my dad would tell me how my Barbie dolls and crystals would pay for my college someday when I sold them out. But when I started selling them,

they're worth like a half or a third of what they were when they were bought back before. So they actually lost value, not counting even inflation, right? But I still didn't want them, but I wanted to make sure they got to a good home. So what I did is I bundled. Like I would do like holiday Barbie bundle. Did you have like the holiday barbies? Yeah, like all the holiday barbies and the fancy dresses. Yeah, with their like dresses. Yeah, I did. Yeah. So I bundled all like the holiday barbies together and I sold those as a bundle. I bundle like all the Swarovsky crystals together and I sell those as a bundle. And then you can just sell them as big lots and then you can sweep out a bunch of stuff all at once. Yeah, that's what we do with our kids clothing too. So as our children outgrow, the size that they were before, I will sell it as a

bundle. So instead of selling like a pair of pants for a dollar, it's like you get the entire wardrobe of this size for a very small amount of money. But it's nice because for a family, they like, this is the size I need. I get a bunch, donate the stuff you don't want. And you're making some money at the same time. So that is a great tip. Yeah, selling things as bundles. And it doesn't have to be just, you know, collections either. It can be things like clothing or a bunch of workout equipment, whatever it is that you have, it's a great tip to sell as a bundle. Yeah, do like a dress lot, you know, summer dress lot. Exactly. Yeah, that does really well. You're right. Okay. So you moved. I've recently moved and it was very eye-opening how much I had. I thought I decluttered a lot

until you move and then you have to pack everything and then unpack everything and then find homes for everything. And even though I was ruthlessly decluttering as I was packing, it was like getting here, I was like, I have so much stuff I don't actually need. Crazy eye-opening experience. But then you moved overseas. And we've been to Europe a few times and I have family from Europe. And it was very crazy the first time we went there and stayed with family, how much smaller the places are there. Yeah.

And how much less stuff people have. Did you, when you moved to Germany, you said, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Did you notice the same thing? I've never been to Germany. But when we went to like London and we went to Jersey Channel Islands and we stayed with relatives, it was very tiny spaces, tiny kitchens and not a lot of excess at all. Yeah. Yeah, that's been my experience too. And I think it's funny because it's also, I think Americans, especially like growing up, our home was almost 4,000 square feet. And we had, like I said,

we had four acres of land. We had two barns. My aunt literally has the family farm that my great-grandparents made when they immigrated from Europe before. So I grew up used to like a lot of space. So for me, our house was just like right under 2,000 square feet. And for me, that felt small. But for a lot of people coming to our house, they're like, this is such a big house, you know. So it's so funny because there's like this disconnect between, you know, what is big, what is small. Our house also felt bigger, I think, because of the really high ceilings. Like we had 12 foot high ceilings in some rooms. So that helped a lot, but it's killer on the heating and cooling costs. No cooling costs. We didn't have air conditioning. Yeah. So, but yeah, definitely like most of the people have

smaller homes there and and just less stuff. I do think that. in my experience, most of the people are more minimalist just in general there in Europe. And that's the feedback that I get in a lot of my videos too. I actually just did a video on this about the difference that I've noticed from coming back after four years of living overseas. And it's just like every time you go to a store, there's just so much. And it's that advertising and the marketing is so in your face. I went to Costco and they already have Christmas stuff out.

I know. I don't notice a ton of big box stores there. There wasn't a bunch of dollar stores there. There wasn't like the opportunity to buy. Right, right, right. And then there also wasn't the place to put it even back in your home. It's not like we have like walk in closets and insane amounts of. We had no closets. We had to buy wardrobes because our old home is like almost 120 years old and it doesn't have closets. So we have. We had to buy wardrobes because our old home is like almost 120 years old and it doesn't have closets. we had to buy wardrobes. My boys actually didn't even have a wardrobe. We just had a dresser for their clothes. So it was, we definitely had a lot of stuff to figure out. We had to be very thoughtful with our storage, like in the entryway for shoes. We ended up using like an IKEA. It's usually like a wardrobe thing, but we used it as a coat rack and shoe rack up there. You know, we had to be very thoughtful with how we were, uh, sending things up so that we could have stuff put away. Because you know me, Cass, I'm a cricket. And I don't. like to see stuff sitting out if I can avoid it. Yeah, you don't like to see stuff. I think I think the

convenience of buying like in my opinion it's the convenience of buying that is definitely contributing to the clutter. Not only do we have like Amazon shopping but a regular grocery shopping experience for the majority of North Americans involves not just food because we are going to Costco where there's clothing and there's household goods or we're going to Walmart and there's there's there's just like we're not just going once a week to get food we're also bombarded by all these extra things that we never would have intentionally gone out to buy they're kind of like these add-on purchases yeah because they're in our face right that isn't it isn't like that overseas yes that's actually exactly one of the points that I made in my video is when I used to go to

the grocery store, it's just like just food. That's all they had. So I could go months, weeks without setting a foot in someplace with like, I don't know, planners or clothes. Because if I wanted to find those things, I had to specifically go out of my way. And if I didn't have a need for that, then I wouldn't go looking for it. But now I have to flex my intentional shopping muscle a lot more because I am constantly presented with these things that I don't know that I need until I see them in the store like Halloween stuff is like a huge trigger for me I just love Halloween I love it too yeah I love it so how has it been then okay are you are you more mindful since you've been back in America you you probably have you been to Target I mean we don't have Target in Canada but

when I go to Target when I am in the states I want to put everything in my cart have you felt the desire. They are so good at pushing your buttons, aren't they? So like, it's like you always have to pass this gauntlet of like the dollar discount. It's not like dollar anymore. It's like the discount stuff, right? But they put it right there at the entrance. So you have to walk by it. And I saw Halloween stuff there the other day. And they have like these cute little rope woven baskets and like orange, green and purple. And they have these like little decanters with of like hissing, hissing like, it's like Harry Potter potion ingredients, but it's like, uh, I have bat and then it's got like a bat stopper and stuff. It's just like so cute. But then I stop and I think, do I really need this?

Where am I going to put this right now? I'm actually, so we're actually in a furnished rental like the house that you see behind me. This is not, you know, this is a townhome that we're renting. This is not our stuff. The painting is not our painting. All of the stuff that comes here is, is part of it. So I'm actually trying to be even more intentional because I know that I'm just going to have to move even more stuff when we have to move again. And so I'm trying not to buy it, you know, more until we get to the space that's going to be our more permanent residence while we're here. That's nice then. So you've got like a stopper. You're like, this isn't of my stuff and I have to move. I don't have this stopper. Listen, when I'm out and I see these cute things,

I am a very impulsive person and especially I really struggle with Amazon too. So I'll be like watching TikTok at night and some cool like pheromone perfume and I'll make your husband go crazy. And I'm just like, what are you doing? And here I am. Add to cart. Add to cart. I bought something actually ridiculous because I saw it on Instagram, but I am very hopeful.

My kids, so living in Germany, we didn't have cars. for a really long time. We were just either taking like walking or taking the bus or the train. So I did not realize that my kids are like really, really car sick. So they get car sick now. We have to drive everywhere. And if it's any more than five minutes, it's like unbearable. So I was scrolling on Instagram, looking at some other stuff. And then there's these glasses, this like anti-motion sickness glasses with the little like swively liquid stuff came up. Can I grab them and show like people? That's hilarious. I'd see if I can find it. Hold up. My husband told me I was ridiculous, but I told him, so until now we've been having them chew like bubblegum or lifesavers,

but it's like, then it's so much sugar every time you go out, right? So hopefully these things will be the solution to our motion sickness problem. But this is an example, even though this was kind of impulsive. I have a huge problem and I'm hopeful that these will solve the problem because it's really tough, like I said, every time you go out to have your kids say, Mommy, I feel sick. I'm going to get sick. Yeah, that's awful. My daughter was really car sick too. She could not look down. That's the thing. They want to look down, but they have to look out the window and we would have to have air blowing on her face. Eventually she got it. So I feel like they'll get used to it. They just can't like read or look at a tablet or look down at their feet.

Yeah. That's hard for little ones. How do you, you know, how do you explain to a little, you can't look down. You can't look down. You have to look out the window. But like these are so they're a little bit better. They don't look down. But like, yeah, we'll see. We'll see how they work. Well, hopefully your fingers crossed for us. I'm good. If nothing else, look going to look adorable. But I also think you're at the place where if those glasses don't work, you'll declutter them. You're not going to toss them in a closet somewhere, which is, that's like, that's the problem. Right.

Growing up, my parents definitely weren't hoarders, but they had never let go of anything. And if our vacuum cleaner broke, we would put the vacuum in the garage, the broken one and buy a new one. Yes. Something like I had outgrown clothing, we just buy new clothes that feels. fit me and we put them on top of the clothes that don't fit me. And eventually, if I couldn't fit at all in my drawers, we might put things in bags and put them in the attic. But for why? Like, I've never in my life known my family to donate something or like declutter something in that way. They've thrown out

trash. But if something could be fixed someday, even if they had no intention of meeting or using it again, it went to the garage. And this was very, very normal. And I think this is normal for the majority of people. Yeah. All over the world. We would even get stuff out of the trash. My dad had like dumpsters for his business and people would come and dump their stuff in the back and we'd be like, ooh, you know, like, oh, look at this great stuff that people are throwing out. And something that I have some friends who like they pick up stuff off the side of the road and then they like sell it. That's part of their business. Right. But I used to. to just pick up stuff that I would see and like drive at home and and keep it.

And back in my area, they call it redneck rubber necking. Because you're driving and you're like, ooh, you know, that catches my eye. I mean, I furnished my first house with a lot of dumpster dives, things that I found on the side of the road. I was like, I could fix that up. And I was really proud of that, but it became addicting. Yes. And then I started picking up things with the intention of,

maybe I'll fix it up and sell it. And then I'm just collecting projects that I was never working on and storing them. And then you're cluttering your time too. Then you're cluttering your time and energy. I did the same thing and I had to learn to stop doing that. I still have a problem with this where I'll find like a great pair of pants and they're not quite my size. But I'm like, ooh, I can take these in and then they fit perfectly. You know, it's easy to see value and things, right?

Like you can always make excuses for things. But it's always a trade-off of how much space am I willing to give, how much time am I willing to give, how much energy am I willing to give to continue to maintain and store and clean and take care of this thing. And for me, I've gotten a lot more choosy about what I, you know, make space for for those things. Yeah. I think it feels good to create something out of something old, and we like that feeling.

Fundamentally, we all just want to feel good about ourselves. And so when we can take something old and make it new again, that does feel really good. But unfortunately, what happens is we, when we're kind of distracted by all these little feel-good projects, the whole big picture gets neglected. Our house becomes a disaster. we can't keep up on it. And then on a daily basis, we feel bad about ourselves with kind of like placating ourselves that we're going to feel good one day when we do these projects. That was a very eye-opening experience for me to realize if I really want to feel proud of myself and good,

and I really want to have the time to be able to do all these amazing projects, I've got to get my crap together first. I have to get a, I have to have a clean slate first. And then when I started really working on that and getting that clean slate and working on the fundamentals, the life skills like, dude, do your dishes every day, make sure that your house isn't crazy cluttered, clean, vacuum. That, when I started like doing those things on a regular basis, those little projects that I wanted to do to feel good didn't feel as important anymore because I genuinely felt good. Does this make sense? Like I was looking for something to make me feel good about myself all the time,

whether it was buying something new or doing a craft or a DIY project. Because I think fundamentally, my house made me feel kind of bad about myself. And when I started getting that under control, I didn't need all these little projects anymore. Yeah. So it was crazy. Like the solution was getting rid of the things that I thought were the solution. Who knew this? I wish, you know, we were taught this when we were younger because I certainly wasn't,

you certainly weren't. But now we get to teach our kids, you know, a better way. I always try to encourage, you know, that my kids to think about it and really think about the value of something. And, you know, is this just an impulse or is this something that, you know, we really want to have? Because at the end of the day, like, it feels good to have a home that's, in control. It feels calming. It feels like less hectic. It just, it's, it's something you can't really

describe until you've lived it. Well, I guess you could go on vacation and go in a hotel and feel that just sitting in the hotel room, but you can have that every day in your home, but it does feel drastic. So let's let's talk about one of the biggest fears, which is what if I let go of something and I need it again. What if I have to buy it? What if I regret it? Can you be honest with us? Is there something that you've decluttered that you miss and you regret? Oh, I always feel good and bad in a way when I answer this question because I have never regretted anything that I've gotten rid of from the hundreds of thousands, probably of things that I've gotten rid of. And I always feel bad when I hear about people who have said that they have gotten rid of stuff that they regret. And I guess maybe that's

one of the good things about me having taken it so slow is that I really gave myself time to sit with my emotions and my feelings and also not just the emotions and the feelings, but also think about, you know, logically and practically about the places things had in my life too. So I can look at pictures of things that I've gotten rid of. Like the other day, I was looking at a photo of my mom and she has this dresser and she has like a jewelry box on top. And over the years, I had her jewelry box and the glass got broken on one side. One of the drawers fell out and was missing. And it was kind of just like falling apart. But that was very hard for me to get rid of back when I first started because it was like very emotional. It was like, oh my gosh, my mom used to get dressed. And I

remember her like putting on her pretty you know pretty jewelry and stuff on in the morning but when I look at that picture now I just think I feel what I feel is like so much gratitude that it made my mom happy and then I am so glad that I got rid of it because it didn't make me happy. I still get emotional about this stuff like you see how emotional I get like this is very emotional stuff we don't need this stuff to feel the love right and the memories, which is very hard. You have to really, you have to, it's cathartic. You have to let go to realize that the memories don't go with this stuff. Right. You have to do the work to get the benefit of like, wow, I can still like feel all these beautiful feelings without having to keep the physical object.

That's trust and faith. Yes. That's where that comes from, right? Because the only way to figure that out is to do the work. Yeah. And I would say, if you're just, you know, when you hit the sentimental stuff, because you should not start with that. Like, don't start with the sentimental stuff, you know, kind of build your decluttering muscles up a little bit first before you address that. And then kind of like ease into it. Like maybe try, you know, getting rid of some of the stuff where it's been sitting in boxes for like a decade. Like I, you know, a lot of us have that stuff where we, it's been literally sitting in our garage or basements for 10, 20 years. And we haven't used it. We know we're probably not going to use it, but we still ask ourselves, what if?

Well, maybe try getting rid of some of those things, you know. Yeah, like the broken vacuum cleaner. Yeah, yeah. Or the vacuum cleaner box, all the empty boxes, all the stuff in like 90% of people's garages. That's where we put stuff that we don't want anymore, but we just are too scared to let it go. We put it in the garage. The garage is a good place to start decluttering. Yeah.

Yeah, our garage was. super out of control because that's one of the places where I started shoving everything when I was getting it back from all of these other places. I had literally the entire garage filled with stuff. And then we had like a downstairs den that was like stuff just shoved onto shelves and then filing cabinets and whatnot. So that was a big project. That's kind of I would move it down like as I decluttered the upper, then it would also go down to the lower. Because that's where I also stored the stuff I was selling too. So I had a whole system.

I had like big Tupperware containers with like, I would put the envelope mailers. So I'd weigh it and pack it beforehand. And then I'd write in Sharpie on the outside what it was because I have so much stuff that literally I'll forget, like, because there's baskets and baskets of it. So then that way when it does finally sell, I can find that labeled box. I slapped this sticker over it and then see you later, buddy. That's crazy. You had like a journey.

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bedding, and pillows. I mean, I lived the majority of my life in clutter. And I wouldn't say my family's hoarders, but everybody had a full home. all my friends like around here it's just normal to have a full full full full full home and I am not a minimalist and I don't think people have to be like I think find the the right balance for you is important like I don't I'm not one of those people who thinks like everyone has to be a hardcore minimalist you know that's the only way to live so but I think like applying the principles is what's important it's just a tool it's a tool it's a tool but I get

comments about my home from friends and family. It's better now because I've been doing this. It's been like over a decade now, but definitely in the beginning when I first started decluttering and people would come to visit, there would be a lot of, not like nasty comments, but I, even on YouTube, sometimes people will say things like, oh, your house feels cold. It doesn't feel like a real home. I just like to fill my home with beautiful things. My sister would say things a lot. She still is like, oh, I just, she really struggles with clutter. When she comes to my home, she'll say things like, oh, I can never have a home that feels like this.

It doesn't feel cozy. It doesn't feel loved. I like a home that feels loved. I think it's so interesting when people say that because it's like, is it really your stuff that creates a feeling of coziness? Because for me, coziness is a feeling, you know, that I get from being with the people that I love and, you know, spending time together doing the things that we do. So I always find it interesting about the point with the coziness thing. But I hear you have you had these comments? Like have people said these things to you? Have you heard or is this just me? Like I maybe where I live, people are used to very, very full spaces. So seeing a space that isn't overly full feels odd to them. I don't know. Yeah, we haven't really gotten very many comments because so we moved to Germany and mainly we were around my husband's family.

So my husband actually grew up poor. He grew up poor in China. They lived in the mountains of China. They literally didn't have like running water. If they wanted to build a fire, they had to cut firewood and, you know, light it up. And that's how they cook their dinner. They didn't have electricity or flushing toilets or anything. So they did immigrate to Germany when he was nine years old, but they were still very, very poor there.

So he, it's funny because he has always kind of been a minimalist his entire life. just out of necessity. And so for him to marry someone like me, it was a little bit difficult of a transition, shall we say. But so because his family has lived like that, like we don't get a lot of comments from them about stuff. But on my YouTube channel, I get so much, like so much. And it doesn't really bother me when they comment about me in particular, but like when they say stuff about my kids room. Like I got, get comments that it looks like an insane asylum or a mental institution. And that really bothers me. That really, it really makes me mad because I, I grew up in the exact opposite where my childhood was like so chaotic, so out of control. And, you know, there's just too much stuff everywhere.

Nobody has any time. People have addiction problems, like substance abuse problems. People have mental illnesses. Like we had, you know, clinical depression and anxiety. anxiety and all sorts of stuff in my family. So I grew up in an environment like this. And I want to give my children better than that. Like we always want better for our children. Right. So now they have this calm and peaceful space and they have like, you know, their favorite animal on the wall. And they have, of course, their favorite toys, you know, nicely on one side. But for people to say that it looks like an insane asylum, I just like the coziness is in in the relationships and the, the people for me, you know, I don't equate stuff with coziness. So that's, that's the one that's me. It is shocking for somebody who's used to clutter, who's used to chaos, who's used to full, full, full, full spaces. It feels normal to them. It really does. And I've also, when I'm decluttering very, very messy spaces with clients, afterwards, there is this feeling of like, oh, I don't, it doesn't feel as, it doesn't feel right. It feels empty. It feels sparse. It feels. And so it is

this like this jarring thing sometimes that takes time to get used to. Totally. So I, that's why I guess why I wanted to mention is do people make comments because I think they're making comments because to them that feels like very opposite polar opposite of how they've probably lived their entire life, which feels scary. And there's a wrongness. to it because they're so used to their house being stuffed full that when they see a space that isn't stuffed full, it doesn't feel right. And I feel this same feeling when I first decluttered. I definitely felt this.

But every time I take down the Christmas decorations, I like to go balls to the walls at Christmas. I put up multiple trees. There's like a ton of crap everywhere. And when I take it all down, it feels like, do I need to go buy some plants? like this space is feeling sparse and it takes a few days and then it feels good again. And so I guess I guess why I wanted to mention this because for those listening at home, if you weren't looking at a minimalist space and feeling like,

that feels so stark, I would never want my house to feel empty and stark like that. Know that that is normal and that what you're feeling is because you're so used to a space that's so full. you don't have to be a minimalist, but also you also don't have to live in a very cluttered home just because it feels normal to you. Does this make sense? Yeah. And when I look around my home, I just really can't see what these people, when they say it looks cold, it looks empty, because everywhere that I look, not now, because we're in this furnished rental where nothing is mine, but before in our home in Germany, everywhere I look, I see things that, you know, I are are either memories for my past that are the very most special things that I chose to keep,

you know, given a place of honor instead of being shoved in the back of a closet or shoved in the garage or shoved in a basement. Or buried under clutter. Yeah. It's like you can elevate your, give more space to your special things when you get rid of all of that excess. It's true. Yeah, I walk into my kitchen and I have like this photo frame with all my memories that

scrolls through and because there's a lot of other things on the counter, I see this. And it's like, I'm like, oh, gosh, like, oh, I remember that. That feels so good. And my husband just picked me up a bouquet of sunflowers yesterday. And it's the only thing on the kitchen counter besides this photo frame. And so I walk in and I'm like, that feels good. Whereas in the past, if I got flowers, there would also be the mail and the kids backpacks and the lunch pails and the piles of stuff I have to deal with and the things I need to put away. And so the really like amazing things get buried. They're invisible amongst all the other things. But you do get also used to that, almost like a security blanket. The clutter, if you're used to having clutter all the time,

it feels like home to you. Yeah. Clutter can feel like home to you. And that is for me a sad thing. if you think that it has to continue to feel cluttered to feel like home, you'll get used to it. And I would suggest trying in the kitchen is a good place to start living for a whole seven days with less. Like do the pack up method, try it, see how it feels at the end of the week to really have a more streamlined, simplified space and see how you feel at the end of seven days when you walk into that kitchen in the morning. I promise it's probably going to be different than it is day one. I like also one of the earliest places I teach people to declutter is the entryway because in feng shui, which my husband being Chinese, I learned gradually more and more about it as, you know,

our relationship progressed. In feng shui, the entryway is the mouth of the home. Literally it's ko. It's like the symbol for mouth. And so all of the energy that flows into your home comes through your entryway. So if your entryway is full of Amazon boxes, you know, empty Amazon boxes and too many shoes lying on the floor and piles of coats because, you know, there's so much that you don't even have enough hangers and people are just throwing things on the floor. All of these things really clog up your entryway. And it's the last thing you see before you leave and the first thing that you see when you greet and you welcome your guests into it. So I like to have people tackle the entryway early on and they're decluttering. And

clear out that space and then kind of move into the home and you just feel this energy clear out. That's a good idea. I've never thought of that before you're right. Like you're entering into your home and this is the first thing you see and kind of the first feeling you get coming home. Is it restful? Is it open? Is it airy? Is it relaxing? Is it zen? Zen? Is it yes? To-dos. Yeah. Because in French, literally, it's like if your mouth is choked, if the throat of your home is choked with clutter, how can the energy flowing into it be good, right? So once you clear out that clutter, you're just going to feel such a big difference. And it also, oh my gosh, like, we are a busy family. Like, I think people think that when you're a minimalist, like, you're every, you just like sit and meditate and your kids are like perfect angels all the time.

My kids are like really high energy. I have two boys. and we are all very scatterbrained. So like a lot of times we're rushing to get out the door on time. And it used to be we wouldn't know where our keys were. We wouldn't know where the shoes were. We wouldn't know where the hats were. You know, mom, where's my coat?

But now everything is where it should be. And that makes getting out the door on time a lot easier too. I love that. I love that. Okay. Before we go, I want to ask, because you are a minimalist, I've interviewed a ton of minimalist. They definitely have, they're more intentional about their things.

And so when I ask this question, they usually know, like, if you would ask me what my top 10 favorite things are, I would have no idea because I have so many things. I don't need, do I even have a favorite? But when you've intentionally edited every single thing you own and you've made a decision on every single thing. I feel like you're more aware of each and every belonging that you have, especially you who have moved, you've just packed and moved again. Are there, can you think of 10 of your favorite possessions?

I know I'm putting you on the spot here, but I like to highlight this with minimalists because I think for us listening at home who are not, that would be a very difficult question to answer. but somebody who has been very intentional about belongings, I feel like it's easier. I think this is a great question. I love it. And I can answer it. But I would also say, I think that a list like this really reveals your kind of why as a

minimalist, right? Because a lot of minimalists talk about like having a why. And on my blog and on my YouTube channel, I talk about before I talk about like North Stars. Like what are the North Stars? Like what's important to you? What kind of things are you? trying to make space for in your life. Like I'm a very sentimental person as we've seen in this

entire interview. And so I love instead of like going out and buying brand new, you know, the most modern or the most trendy thing. I would rather have things in my home that are like special and meaningful to me, you know, as much as possible. So thinking about my list, well, first of all, this is my mom's wedding ring. So like I said, she passed away when I was nine. And so I wear her wedding ring with my wedding band. So that's one. And then I also have a pink flower quilt from my grandmother. So that was my grandmother that passed away of lung cancer six months after my dad passed away, her son.

And she actually, I'm going to cry again, maybe. She actually quilted it for me before she passed away so that I could have it at my wedding. And I didn't know she had made it. So it was like five years after she died. and they brought it out at my wedding shower. Woo! Everyone was crying in that room. So that is a really special quilt.

I have my dad's knife set. So a lot of times I like to keep things that I can actually use too, right? So like I think a lot of people, they, you know, they, it's a great idea to like, instead of having, you know, the fine china from grandma that just sits, collecting dust in the China cabinet. Why not get it out and use it? You know, like actually put the things to use instead of just letting them sit. You know, so if you have something special, get it out and start using it, right? So I have some knives that my dad had. I use those. I have a wooden jewelry box for my grandpa who was in the war and he won it in a poker game when he was stationed in India. My Harry Potter books, I still have them. They're like falling apart

now and I probably need to buy some more, but they got me through some very dark times in my childhood. So I always like, they're kind of like a comfort read for me now to go back to. I have a Naruto lunchbox that I've had for like 15 years because I love anime. Do you know what anime? So that's like 15 years old and I use it for my crafts now. So that's another example of things that I, it's sentimental, but I've turned it into functional stuff, right? So it's like my sewing kit and fabric scraps or, or, you know, ribbons that I might need are in there. And then I have, this is one new thing that I have actually

a water bottle because I never, ever, ever drink water. And I've had so many water bottles, like I'm a butterfinger, so I broke some glass ones or like I hate cleaning straws. So I don't like cleaning straws like the Stanley Cup. But this one, it has like you can drink cool water out of it. there's one lid or you can put hot liquids in it and drink it out like this so I'm like obsessed with this now finally I'm drinking water after like 40 years hopefully my kidneys are you know they're I drink no water I need I need to find like this magical water bottle I know my kids are like mom I drink water yetty the Yetty rambler but because I'm a camel my husband always says I'm a camel like I don't drink anything and then um my wedding album

I would say is another one of those things. I think that we're on eight now. Photos of my family. I love looking, you know, through photos. I've been thinking of getting one of those digital photo albums, like you said. So that might be a buy for the future. And then probably last on the list. I like my camera because it lets me reach out to people who need help and make videos and whatnot.

I love, like that's such a beautiful. collection of things that could fit into one box, which is like, ah, and I was listening to you talk about these things, and I don't have that same collection of special things. And I think that's because I haven't been really intentional about my belongings like you have. I know I have special things, but the fact that I can't think of them and pinpoint them and think, like, not only this is it and know where it is because I still have too much. It's like noise. It's like having a lot of background noise, right?

So I've talked about this with anxiety before. It's like when you have anxiety, when your anxiety is low, maybe it's just like a low hum. You don't even notice it. But when your anxiety starts getting higher and higher, it's like a train. Have you ever tried to like focus or do math or something when there's like a freight train passing next to you or passing next to your house. You know, so it's like the same thing I think with clutter is just like, it's like a buzzing

that just kind of like builds and it just you can lose focus in all of that, you know, extra noise that you've got them. Yeah. This is good. Oh, I want to end here because I want my listeners. I want you listening at home to think about your own 10 things and maybe grab a piece of paper. and write things down and think about where are those things in your home? If it's a wedding album, is it in a box in your basement?

Go dig it out. And maybe if we can start focusing and really being intentional in the things that are so special to us, it might be easier to let go of all the noise that isn't, all the extra that isn't on the list because there's a lot that wouldn't make your list. So why is it cluttering up your space? Okay, thank you, Marissa, so much for joining me today. Please let my listeners know how they can find you. Yeah, so I have a YouTube channel.

It's called A to Zen Life, and I also have a blog and an Instagram by the same name. You can find me at the handle at A to Zen Life. So I will be looking forward to anyone from Cass's audience who comes and joins me. Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on today, Cass, too. I always love connecting with you. I know that we met like her kind of met a couple of years ago at the Get Organized HQ virtual conference.

And I was just like, I love how she talks about decluttering underwear. I got to follow this lady. No holy underwear. Respect yourself. And we respect our home, right? That's what this is about. This is about standing up against the extra clutter because we deserve a space. to come home to, to wake up to, that feels relaxing, that feels under control and that feels

zen. So thank you so, so much. And thank you everyone for listening. We'll see you guys next time. Bye. Thanks.