Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - I Stopped Rescuing Everyone . . . and My House Got Better | Clutterbug Podcast #316

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

Hey Clutterbugs! People pleasing, mental load, and mom burnout are a direct route to clutter, resentment, and overwhelm. If you feel like you do everything (cleaning, chores, meals, schedules, emotional labor), I’m going to show you how to stop over-functioning so your kids and partner finally step up.Today, I’m talking with JoAnn Crohn (No Guilt Mom) about boundaries, emotional regulation, and why “it’s easier if I do it myself” is a little lie we tell ourselves.I also break down what people-pleasing looks like inside a home (rescuing, perfectionism, avoiding “nagging”), what it leads to, and how to build household systems that don’t depend on me, or you, doing everything.In this episode, you’ll learn: - How to spot people-pleasing at home (and why it creates clutter + burnout)- How to reduce the mental load and stop being the household manager- What boundaries actually sound like with kids and your spouse (and what to do when they push back)- Why letting your family struggle a little builds competence and confidence- JoAnn’s Lotus Framework + “mind-body-unicorn time” (so you have a life outside the house)- How to create home systems everyone can follow, not just you You can find more Clutterbug content here: Main YouTube Channel: @Clutterbug Website: http://www.clutterbug.me TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/ For more from JoAnn: https://www.noguiltmom.com/ #PeoplePleasing #MentalLoad #MomBurnout #Boundaries #EmotionalLabor #Resentment #OverwhelmedMom #FamilyChores #HouseholdManagement #HomeOrganization #Decluttering #OrganizingTips #Clutterbug #EmotionalRegulation #NoGuiltMom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you ever feel like it's just easier to do it yourself? I mean, it actually feels easier sometimes in the moment, but I can promise you that future you will not agree. Sometimes what feels like competence, like I'm just faster at this and I'm just better at this and I'll just get it done and it won't be stressed seeing out anyone else. It feels like you're doing it for those reasons, but the reality is it's just people pleasing in disguise. You just don't want to make waves and you don't want the extra work of dealing with the people being upset and their emotions. And what ends up happening is now you are the only real functioning system in the home. You're managing everything and telling yourself you're doing it because you're just best at it. But the reality is you just don't

want to upset anyone or have boundaries or like confront anyone about the fact that they need to be doing more. This just leads to resentment and burnout. and honestly, like, just uncontrolled emotions. And everyone's losing. Everyone's unhappy when you're burnt out and unhappy. Today I'm so excited because we are talking to Joanne Crone. She is the founder of No Guilt Mom. And we're talking about the importance of stepping back, doing less for other people,

not always, you know, rescuing them or taking care of everything. letting other people try and not just your kids, maybe even your husband, try and perhaps fail a little bit. Because this is how not only do you become a happier person who can find this amazing thing we're going to talk about later in the podcast, which is like, interesting you time, but also it helps them grow. It helps them be actual functioning adults too. I am so guilty of this masked people pleasing in my own home. And it looks like love. Like I feel like it's love. But I hear my husband saying, you know, stop doing that. Here's what it looks like.

It's my kid's job to unload the dishwasher and load it after dinner. And sometimes when I'm done work early and Joe's making dinner, I'll be like, oh, I'll just do them a favor. And I'll quickly unload the dishwasher real quick. So they only have to load it after. And it saves them some time. My husband gives me this look like, you're not teaching them a new thing. I feel like this is an act of love, but the reality is this is just me swooping in, making my life

harder so their life is easier. And that is people pleasing in a nutshell, and that is making me resentful and also not helping them become competent humans. I feel like I do it because what I get out of it in the moment is like I'm appeasing that guilt that maybe I'm not doing enough. Like anytime I buy my kids something or do a little something for them. It's really not even about them. It's about me, which is a gross thing. And it's the honesty here. It's like, I don't feel like I'm good enough. So if I do these little things, I feel better about myself as a mom. I feel better about myself as a wife. I feel, but in that moment, in that moment, except guess what, it always just leads to resentment. it always leads to me feeling unappreciated, and it's not actually scratching that itch,

which is like spending time with them or fulfilling that in a more meaningful way. Before we get into the awesome interview, just like always, you are not allowed to just passively listen. You've got to get up and take action on your life today, unless you're driving. Please just drive if you're driving. But if you're at home, get ready to be awesome. And the last thing I want you to do today is people please, which means don't do things for other people. Don't go in your kids' bedroom and clean. Don't put away your husband's laundry.

Don't look at these common areas where other people can step up. What is a space you can work on for you? What is a space that nurtures you? Do you have a craft room? Do you have a little spot that maybe you want to make into a workout area or a reading nook? Can you organize your books? Can you give yourself a little makeup table in your bedroom? Go to a space and make it more beautiful and more organized, have less stuff, but just for you. Today, I want you to be productive and selfish. If you're new here, I'm a Cass from Clutterbug, and today we are talking about boundaries.

We're talking about clutter, but not the physical clutter, the emotional clutter. All of the pressure and expectations we put on ourselves to do everything, to manage other people, to keep everyone else happy and everything running smoothly at the cost of ourselves. It's time to declutter that thought pattern today, and it's time instead to build systems that put us first. I talk a lot about this podcast about doing less, basically doing less work, like doing it shitty and shortcuts to make life easier. Today we're talking about doing less, but differently, we're talking about doing less so that others can do more, doing less for other people so they can do for themselves. And this is not easy, okay? It is painful for both people. It is painful for everyone, because you're like,

I could do that so much better if I just did it myself. But we're talking long-term gains here. We are talking everybody's going to win when you step back and step into your own life. Now, let's introduce Joanne Crone. She is absolutely amazing. She is an educator. She is a life coach. She is a podcast host herself. And, of course, she founded No Guilt Mom.

And she just wrote an incredible book called The Best Mom is a Happy Mom. Are you ready? This is going to be an awesome interview. Let's talk to Joanne. Hello, Joanne. Welcome to the Clutterbug podcast. Hi, Cass. I'm so happy to be here.

It's so exciting. I'm excited to have you here. You are the founder of No Guilt Mom. And you just released your book. The Best Mom is a Happy Mom. And I'm so excited to have you here because I went through like a parenting journey. And I also feel like I'm still in all my relationships dealing with it. And it's all the things you talk about like resentment and overwhelm.

So please, how did you get into this? How did you become like an expert on this? So I really watched my own mom growing up. And I saw how much parenting took a like toll on her. She did not want to go out with friends. She did not want to take any time to herself. I mean, I remember a specific conversation when I was 14. And my mom was saying, oh, like, I just wish I had time to work out. And me being the ever helpful 14 year old, I'm like, mom, you have a gym at your work. Why don't you like stop there? She's like, no, I don't have the time to do that. And so when I like got married to my husband, I got married when I was 24, we're celebrating

our 20th year anniversary this year. Congrats. Yeah. And I didn't want kids. I didn't want kids because I felt that as a parent, you had to give up everything for your kids. And that's not how I wanted my life to be like. And then we went to go visit his cousins in Denver and they were entrepreneurs. And we're having this great discussion at the kitchen table. And like their two-year-old son is just like taking pans out of the cupboard and like banging them

together. And it was just like such a happy thing. And it made me see that parenthood didn't have to be like that, that it could be great and fun. But when I became a mom, all of those ex-executive. expectations came crashing down. And the first few months of my daughter's life, I was in postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression. And it was all due to a lot of the thoughts that I had grown up with about motherhood, about how I thought that, like, I should behave and how I should show up to my kids. And so once I discovered that, once I worked through that, I wanted to help other moms work through it too. So that's how I got here. I love this. Yeah, I had like sort of a similar story. My mom was like overkill, especially too with like housework. And she just was like always stressed. And I'm never,

I'm never having children. I'm never cleaning my house. I'm just going to be a free spirit who like reads tarot cards on the side of the road for money. And I love that. Yeah, that didn't work out. It turns out like being a free spirit is way more work. So I climbed back in the box and I just woke up one day with three kids in a minivan in a house. And I'm like, what the heck? And so much pressure. So much pressure. And all of it, I feel like was coming from my own self. Yeah, there's a lot of expectations that we hold in our like own brains about being a parent and being a mom. And that's a lot of that is what's holding us back from really having that happiness in parenthood, is our own expectations. But the good news about that.

about that is that once we realize those and once we start intentionally working on those, that's when like our whole world can open up. Yeah, you talk a lot about resentment. And I, I find this so fascinating because I am so guilty of this. But it's not just when it comes to your kids. So when you give and you give and you give and then you're mad that you're giving. And it's not like the person asked you to be so amazing. Right. So. So, So I find sometimes I'll like, you know, I'll make Joe a coffee in the morning and then I'll make the kids their favorite cookies. And then I'm just going to help them out and put away their laundry so they can rest after.

And then I'm just going to make sure that I'm making their favorite dinner. And then I'm rage filled at 8 o'clock because I did all these things for everyone else and they don't even appreciate it. And then I'm just a screaming, nutso-but-so-Banchi. I love that term. Not so but so vanshee. That's amazing. But I could relate.

Yeah, the resentment creeps in. I first realized the resentment when I was able to stop myself one moment. My daughter wanted help making her bed one day. And she was like 10. And we were really trying to transition her into like doing these things herself without like parental help. And so I told her during the day, I'm like, listen, I will help you make your bed. I'll help you get started. started on it, just come to me. Girl didn't come to me until 10 p.m. that night when I was in bed.

And she wanted help making her bed right then. And I was like thinking, okay, if I help, what is that going to look like on my end? It is probably going to look like me getting out of bed, stomping down the hall, like throwing some things on the bed, being really upset and mad. Or I, I can say no and like stick to like hey I'm in bed already it's too late right now and deal with her I know emotional reaction and I think that is the big thing that really stops a lot of moms in particular from holding those boundaries and saying no and not doing the thing is because we are feeling responsible for everything including people's emotions and we try to control those emotions when really we can't control anyone else's emotions but our own. So in that moment,

I'm like, you know what, I do not want to show up as that person who is stomping down the hallway. I would rather be here and calm and saying, no, it's not the time I'll help you later and help her kind of process her own emotions than showing those myself. Yeah, why do we want to fix everything? Like, why? Where does this come from? It's like, I don't want anyone to be upset. And I don't want anyone to have a bad day. I found, especially with my first daughter, I helicoptered hard. And I never thought that I would be that person. I almost bubble wrapped her because any type of like emotional distress she was feeling, I felt like it was even more amplified in me. And so to ease my own anxiety and hers, I was just constantly like making sure everything

was always good for her. And then you add another child and a husband. I'm always also regulating his emotions and making sure everybody's happy. I'm people pleasing at the expense of myself. And yes. Why do we do this? So I like, I just had a discussion about this exact thing with Katie Morton, who's a therapist and she also has this amazing YouTube channel. And she was on the No Guilt Mom podcast and I was like, why? And the thing that she said was that we often replicate the patterns that we saw in childhood and what we were expected to be as a kid. So if as a kid, like, you were kind of expected to be the good child and to always do what you're told and to make sure you're making your parents happy, that kind of, that gets ingrained in you. And that pattern continues to like,

so that when you show up in your relationships, you could feel everybody's emotion so intense. intensely and you want to fix them and you want to make them better and you don't want any to be upset around you because also as a kid that's how you stayed safe you stayed safe by noticing those emotions around you and when you like think about it like that your heart kind of hurts for your like little kid's self because it it was hard keeping everyone safe all the time just as we know it's hard keeping everyone safe all the time right now as an adult It is exhausting. And I think my like, come to Jesus moment before, I want to talk all about your book and all of your strategies, but I want to share this because I think that this was so profound for me, this change, but it was also so drastic and painful. So in 2020, I was offered a HD TV show and I was going to be the host and this is like a life-changing thing. But I had to go to New York. And this is during COVID, the time we should not discuss where I couldn't travel back and forth.

So it's not like I could go and work for a few days and come home because we had two-week quarantine on both ends. So I had to move to New York without my family for 30 days. And I had a 7-year-old and an 11-year-old and a 13-year-old and a husband, all of which did nothing for themselves. I did all the cooking, all the cleaning. Even though I ran my business, I did their laundry. I took them to doctor's appointments. I made sure they got up in the morning. And I had, like, I helped everyone manage their life.

And then the thought of me leaving for 30 days was I almost didn't do it. I almost gave up this once in a lifetime opportunity because I'm like, they can't possibly manage without mom. but I went and the crazy thing is they lived. They lived. They survived. And my husband had the opportunity to step up in a way that I, I'm going to be real with you. I didn't think he could. I just was like, he's going to fail.

I'm going to come home. The house is going to be trashed. The kids are going to be starving. Everything's going to be. And it was fine. Yeah. I love that story because like it goes, it went against. your expectations of what may happen when you leave. And also like the role model you were

showing your kids how you were like going after your own dreams and you were putting yourself first. I think that gives our kids so much more than us thinking like we have to do everything for them because you have to see it to be it. And when you see like your mom going out there and like being on TV and pursuing these cool opportunities, then that becomes more realistic for you to attain because you know what she did to get there. And so, oh, I love that. I love it. And they were great. And has your relationship with your like family? How has it shifted since then? I'm really curious. I think what was really eye opening for me is how much my older, my oldest daughter had like this shock moment of, oh, mom's not there to do things.

and I realized I was overdoing things for her. And so she did have a bump in the road when she had to adjust to like independence in a way. Not that my husband wasn't there, but I really sheltered her. And now I look at my kids and they are fiercely independent. Like they make their own doctor's appointments. That's amazing. It's like so bonkers. And they're just, yeah, they have a confidence that they didn't have before.

because they struggled. I'm not going to lie. They struggled while my husband and they were running things. And it was not smooth sailing. But I almost feel like they needed that struggle in order to be better. Does that make sense? No, they absolutely did. And it reminds me of something in Jonathan Hates book, The Anxious Generation. Have you read this book at all? No. So in there, he talks about biosphere two. Remember that project in the 90s where it was actually like, right in my hometown of Tucson, Arizona that had happened. So I was like, oh, Biosphere 2. But what they found is that in Biosphere 2, the trees could only grow to a certain height without falling down. And the reason for that is because there was no wind in Biosphere 2. There was no wind to push up

against them when they were growing to help them strengthen their roots so that as they grew taller and taller, they could survive. The same goes with kids. If there is no pushback, If there is no challenge to kids, they are not going to have that confidence to succeed in the future because they do. You're totally right. They do need to go through the struggle and learn for themselves. It teaches them so much more than us just being like, you know, I told you to do that and you didn't. And that's why this happened. And do you think maybe husbands also need this struggle? Absolutely. I read you talked about your Christmas, how you were like, so overwhelmed. And now like your husband took. over. And there are things also I've just like pushed to my husband and then closed my eyes as he did not do it any of the way that I think he should have done it. But he's grown in ways that like are amazing to see. So yes. I think he gave a story. That's why I'm laughing. Yes.

Share. Share. We, I realized that my kids were coming to me for so many things. instead of going to my husband. And the moment where I realized, and I talked to my husband, I'm like, this has got to stop. I was on a business trip all the way across the country in Florida. And my son was in the bathroom and he was on his phone. And he was texting me, Mom, I'm out of toilet paper. And I'm like, Florida. And your dad's like in the next room.

Like, this has gone too far. That's hilarious. And it's so relatable. It's so relatable. And so he and I, we both started this thing where it's like, go to dad. It was like the go to dad campaign. And so the kids started like, I started refusing them. I'm like, hey, you got to go to dad for this one.

You got to go to dad. And he encouraged them as well. So that now less of it is on me because they go to dad. And I think that's something that we don't realize our kids get in the habit of doing because they'll come to us for something. And we'll be like, yes, of course. we'll handle that, we'll handle that while our husbands are like sitting on the couch with nothing being asked of them. So even just training the kids and asking the kids to start going to dad

helps a lot. So good. Yeah. And I think this does all come down to boundaries, doesn't it? It's, it's so weird to say, but I'm going to say it. It feels like we need to practice maybe being a little bit more selfish. And selfish is always seen as like this really negative bad way of being. And when we try not to ever be selfish, everyone's losing. We're losing because we're resentful and because we've taken on so much. But our loved ones are also losing because we aren't showing up as our worst, like grouchiest, not best self. And we're certainly not showing up as a role model. Like I would never want that life for my children. So why would I model that for them? So when we talk about boundaries, I'd love to hear, like, was this hard for you to start putting yourself first? And what does

this look like for my listeners who maybe they don't have even young kids? Maybe they're not even married. But I feel like boundaries in general are universal. Like, how can we start putting ourselves first without it feeling like a bad thing? That is an excellent question because I did have a lot of trouble with boundaries. And the way I first started setting them was when I got into personal situations, which were very, very difficult for me. So one of the personal situations was the relationship that I had with my mom, probably like this was about like 15 years ago. And it was just that I felt like I had to keep her happy, even though she lived like two hours away from me. I didn't feel like I could be really open with her and talk with her and that she would come to

me upset when I did something. Like, for instance, if I, if I didn't extend an invitation to like get together we were having with my husband's family, just because I knew that it would be a trek for them to come up. She would get mad at me and say like, oh, it's because you don't want me. Oh, it's because you don't do this, this kind of stuff. And I had to set a, I had to set a boundary there. And it took a while. It actually took a lot of therapy for me to actually have. have that conversation and to practice that conversation. And when I finally like decided, okay, I need to set my first boundary, I called my mom and I'm shaking. And I'm telling her all this stuff. And she does not react well. She, she, it cries. She says like, like, and she hangs up the

phone. We don't talk for a week. And then when all the emotions kind of die down, we talk. And it has been the best relationship with my mom. since then just setting a boundary. And so the kind of push, the good thing about setting boundaries is they may seem so, so hard in the present. But the relationship that results afterwards is so much calmer, so much more open, so much more like respectful both ways so that you feel that your needs are getting met as well as the other persons. Because I think that's the big thing. We don't get our needs met. We push our needs aside in order to make other people happy.

And that starts showing up in our tone, in the way we, like, interact with people. And it just ruins relationships that way. So there's like two choices. Either you set the boundary, you become selfish. You say that this is exactly what I need. Or the relationship disintegrates when it could have been something. really amazing. That's so good. And I think it's really important. I'm just dipping my toe in the boundary water here lately, but people don't react well at first. They don't. No. And so it feels like

it's already you're like, oh, I'm going to set this boundary and it's going to be uncomfortable and I'm probably going to upset the person. And then you state your boundary and then the person does get upset or multiple people get upset and then that feels even worse. But if you hold your ground, on the other side is so nice. I recently set a boundary that I was no longer going to put away my husband's laundry. I work full time. I've got a part-time job too. He doesn't work full-time or part-time. He has only a part-time job. But I had always put away the laundry. And when I stopped doing it and it started piling in the closet, only his clothes, he was like, well, you're putting away yours anyways. That's not very nice. And why wouldn't you do this kind thing for me? And that's kind

of disrespectful. And I immediately, all the people pleasing shame, I'm like, he's right. He does other things for me. But then I realized when I'm sitting on the floor and he's, you know, watching TV and I'm putting away his laundry at night, I feel mad at him. And it's not good for our relationship. So I held strong on that. boundary. And I was like, you're grown up. I'm not putting away your laundry. I love you, but I'm not. It came to a place where he's just doing it. And now he sometimes does mine too without asking. Because I think he's realizing like, oh, this actually was work. And it was bigger than I thought. She had done it our entire 24 years together. And it made our relationship better.

But it was a bump. Yes. Yes. And I think every boundary is a bump. Every boundary is a And I could speak from the person who I did not have a good emotional reaction when a boundary was set against me. And I did not act well. And this was like quite recently, maybe like two or three years ago, where my sister-in-law came to me and said that she she didn't really like a way I handled a situation. And my emotions went sky high. I mean, it was already one of those situations where we had gone over to dinner at their

house. And I had been a little more of my talkative self. and I had let something else slip about my husband. And so he had talked to me about that night. I mean, admittedly, I did it. I did it. And he had talked to me about that night. And then she came and talked to me about it.

And I just like melted down. I'm like, fine. I won't do anything. And I hung up the phone on her. And then once I calmed down, which was pretty quickly, since I do this work regularly, I was like, oh, man, that was not the best way to show up right there, Joanne. I need to go in and I need to repair. that situation. And I did. And I said, like, listen, I am so sorry that I reacted that way. Like,

that was not you. That was like everything going on in my head. And I so appreciate you coming to me when you feel upset about a situation. I really, really do. And I am so sorry that I acted that way, which is the healthy way you would expect people to respond. You know? That sounds like good communication. I love that, which sometimes is hard to hear. It is, it is hard. It is really hard to hear sometimes. And there are those emotions that flare up. But when people are able to let their emotions cool, it's, it's great.

I have like, I'm constantly working through communication issues and like figuring out new ways to do things. And one thing that I learned very, very recently is that I tend to take over 100% of ownership of the relationship. Like I am the person who will be like, oh, it's my fault. I should have done that differently or I should have done that or I should have done that. And I don't allow the other person to have their part. And then I get mad at them for not having their part and not saying what they take ownership of. I'm so guilty too. Yes. And this is like a pattern. And so one thing like I'm working on is when I have a conflict with someone, I am going to go to that person. and be like, okay, this is how I feel. And then I'm going to wait and see what they have to say

in return. And if they if they don't like come back and been like, you know what, I shouldn't have acted this way or you're right. I'm so sorry for hurting you. I didn't mean it that way. If they don't come back some way like that, I'm taking a step back at that moment. I am not over explaining. I am not trying to make it right. I am just going to give some space and give that time and chance to sink in to see if, and this could be a really hard thing to say, to see if I still want that kind of relationship with that individual. Because I'm no longer interested in relationships where I'm taking over 100% of it. I need my needs met as well. Oh, that's a boundary right there. Good for you. That probably has a bump, but good for you.

Tell me about the Lotus Framework. This is something you talk about, and I would love you to share with my listeners about the Lotus Framework. Yeah. So a lot, like I had trouble figuring out exactly how to put myself first and to concentrate on myself. So I think of my lotus flower has five petals. And it's the lotus flower because you think of it as this wonderful, beautiful thing. but it is actually connected to the lake bed at the bottom, and it has pushed itself up through the muck and the dirt and everything to become this beautiful thing. And I think that's a really

great metaphor for what we could be as people. So we have five petals on it. The first one is really looking at your past and what you're coming from and what you want to change and how you want to grow because a lot of this work, it takes an intentional like push to, want change. Like if you are completely done putting yourself last and having to do everything, like you're at this moment right here where you're ready. You're ready to put the work in. You're ready to put the time in. You're ready to like embrace the discomfort that comes with growth and change. And so that's the first one. The second one is all about your habits. And I like to think of this in something called mind, body, unicorn time. Mind time is all about, uh, no,

your inner thoughts. I like journaling to know exactly what I'm thinking. It really slows my brain down. And when I put my thoughts on paper and I can figure out what I'm doing in that situation, like, do you journal it all? I gratitude journal. So I have like a gratitude journal. It's changing my brain from being kind of like, oh, poor me to, oh, things are actually really great. Right. Yeah, because when we put down our gratitudes, our brain starts looking for other moments that we can grab onto in the world. It's an amazing thing. So looking at that and looking at our thoughts is the first part of that process. The body moving your body. I'm not talking about like going on Instagram and finding like a 45 minute workout routine

and committing to that every day. I'm talking about like, can you like put extra 10 minutes of activity? Like maybe go on a walk. Maybe like do some stretching. Just do something to move your body so that you feel more grounded in it. And then the third one is unicorn time. which is taken from this concept from Eve Rodsky in her book Fairplay, where everybody needs that little special thing that makes them them, that makes them like interesting at parties

where you could talk about something other than your home, your husband, or your kids, some other topic. That's your unicorn time. I love it. Yeah. So good. Unicorn time is hard as a woman, especially as a mom and a wife. because, man, there's so many other little needs to take care of.

So how often are we doing this unicorn time? Is there a plan? Is there a roadmap we need to follow? Is there step-by-step instructions? There's no plan. It's just going wherever your interest, like, leads you. And your unicorn time can change for, like, during every step of your life. Like, I was in the book.

I talk about Pilates and Mountain biking as my unicorn space. Well, guess what? I'm not doing Pilates and mountain biking anymore. That's okay. I've switched to improv. I'm doing improv classes now as my unicorn space. Good for you. I love that. It has like, it lights me up more than anything. I could talk about improv all day long. And that is really shows that that that's a good unicorn time space. That's a good space for me because it is something that I bring to conversations that is not about my kids. That is not about like my house. That's not about my work. It's just something just for me. I love it. This is so good. Okay, let's give our listeners some ideas of unicorn things that they can do. This is just off the, I'm just like putting you on

the spot here. But I feel like volunteering really helped me find my unicorn. I never thought of it this way, but I started volunteering for St. John Ambulance years ago. And I loved it so much. I was like, I'm going to see if I can become a firefighter. That's awesome. Yep. And then I did. You could be a firefighter? Yes.

Two years ago. And what's crazy to me is at the time when I was telling friends and family that I was going to apply, I had a few very close family members say that that was so selfish. Not because being a firefighter is dangerous, but because it was a lot of time commitment that I was going to be going to school and going for church. training and going out to fight fires. And one person in particular said, you're a mother and a wife first. It is selfish of you to put your own, like, desires ahead of them. And I remember, like, I did feel that guilt in my stomach about leaving my family to do something that would make

me happy a couple nights a week. But then I thought, if I was a man, this wouldn't even be, everyone would be like good for you go for it and and that gave me that little bit of maybe courage to say I'm going to put myself first in this way even though it feels kind of wrong and I love it and that's my unicorn time and it's literally the best thing I've ever done outside of being a wife and mother of course but um yeah and a podcast host and like all the other things you do cast you know like you're amazing but I needed I needed something else And I think a lot of my listeners may be craving that. So let's talk about some.

Do you have some ideas? Improv is so good. Do you have other ideas of people who feel like, yeah, I don't really have anything to talk about at parties. I don't really have anything that lights me up. What are some things that perhaps they could look at trying? Yeah. So a lot of the members in my inner circle, they have been researching and looking to find their own unicorn time. I have had people really get into their tarot cards.

And tarot cards are like a unicorn time. There are people like this is one of my unicorn spaces before long distance running. I did marathons for my unicorn time for a very long time because of the community and the camaraderie that exists there. There is writing. You can like do writing for your unicorn time. Creating your own homestead. I've seen people do. That's a great thing.

reading books, they start reading books and then start like little book clubs that they can share those books with other people. So many things exist for Unicorn Time. I know that Ivrotsky also wrote a book about her, The Unicorn Space, that digs into this so much more. So that is definitely a book to go check out if you want more ideas because she did like hip hop dancing, like just doing videos and thriller writing and everything. But Unicorn Time is supposed to be something that is a skill that you have, but it also connects you with other people. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm thinking, my mom loves gardening. My mom needs some unicorn time, even though she's retired. She needs unicorn time, lady. Stop shopping and go. But she loves gardening,

which is amazing. But what if she joined the like agricultural society in her town? So she met other people who loved gardening and was, you know, working in parks and getting out of her comfort zone a little bit and doing something that really brings her joy that isn't, you know, another chore at home. So, yeah, this is so good. Okay, love this so much. I hope my listeners are thinking of their own brains and some unicorn time that they can do. This is so, so good because I do think that that is a boundary that you can set that's like, this is my time for me, just for me. which will give you a bump and feel uncomfortable. And also, like, for all the people pleasers out there, I just want to point out how, like,

joyous and excited you were about the thought of your mom doing something that was for herself. And I feel that way about my mom, too. And this is how our kids will feel. Like, they want us to do something for us. So just, like, keep in mind those emotions that you're having towards your own parents. And that's what you're doing for your kids. Oh, so good. So our kids are going to grow up thinking, I never want to have kids because they're not going to see this martyr. Right. Because as a mom, when we become a martyr, we're really like we're role modeling that for our kids. We're saying that that's what their life is going to have to be like too, that it's going to be all about other people when it can be all about them and also all about you. Right, right. You are part of the community. I mean, there is a whole community supporting you. You don't have to exist in a silo that is not what we are here for. We're here for it to interact with other people, not just our families, but like the whole community at large. And by finding that space for yourself, you are just finding other niches of the community to stick yourself into. And I think, you know what gets me the most excited about this is our kids are leaving us, okay? They're going to go.

go. And I think when we put all of our identity on our kids, when being a mother is our most important in our like top tier, this is what we are, what happens to us when they start their own lives outside of our home. But also what happens to them because they feel that, I think. You know, I think children feel like the pressure also like they're doing things now to make you happy because they feel that connection, like their success is also your success. And that's pressure I never want my children to feel. I felt that when I went away to college. And it's also like one of the things that I do this work for because I decided to leave my hometown. I did not want to live at home. And I just went two hours, just two hours north. But every time I called home, it was I left my mother.

I left her and like I must not I must not love them enough if I didn't want to stay around there and like all of this stuff gosh my mother is going to kill me for this podcast but it's like I love my mother she is so amazing I know it needs to be said because there is pressure and I don't think your mom or all of us as moms even realize we're doing that obviously our children's happiness is the number one priority, but we've tied ourselves so tightly, like our happiness is their happiness that, of course, it's hard to separate because if our kids are off living their best life, and what are we now? And you say it so well, if our kids are off living their best life.

Because my daughter's a high school senior, and she's graduating, and she's moving to New York at the end of the year. I was touring colleges with her in August. And I was overcome with this horrible sense of grief and jealousy. I was jealous that she got to go off and do this amazing college experience and everything. And I went into like a few months of just depression and anxiety because of that. And I didn't want to be there. I knew how that ended. And I got so much like compassion for my mom in that moment because I'm like, this is what she was feeling and this is what challenge I need to overcome now to like break this cycle and show my kids that this is going to be okay.

That's actually when I decided to sign up for improv because it was something that scared me and it was something new and it would put me on stage, which I love to be on stage. That like little dip was the moment that I think like now I'm so incredibly happy and I'm living my best life. And I'm so incredibly excited for my daughter who is going to go off and live her best life because I have my bucket filled now. Yes. Okay. So I think this starts with unicorn time. This is what I'm hearing. It starts with what can I do for me and put myself first, but also I'm hearing like what can I stop doing for them? Yes. Yeah. How can I step back to make that time for me. Right. And how amazing it is at first they're going to struggle and they're

going to stumble and they're going to be sad that you've probably taken away what you've been giving, but they're going to be so much better for it. And this is what I've seen with my own children. Like Abby's health card expired a year and a half ago. Don't judge me. But she drives. She's 17. And I said, you're going to have to go to the government building and get your own health card. And she said last night at dinner, but I'm just a baby, mom, you have to come with me. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm really busy. But also, you can do this. It's your face.

It's your driver's license. You can drive your car. You can do this. And she's texted me a couple times. She's like, I'm so nervous to go. And I'm like, yeah. But my mom's still not going with me to the government building. Like, when is the time where we're like, you got this?

You got this. I think it's uncomfortable for every. But it's supposed to be. It is. That is actually my favorite saying to say to my kids. I'm like, I have confidence in you that you have this. You got it. I'm here for any support you need.

You could text me. You go questions. Anything. But you got this. And they usually do have this. And when they go through it, just like we were talking before about the struggles, they end up being stronger. And they have more confidence in themselves to now tackle bigger challenges.

challenges. So good. And I think, again, this works for every relationship to a friend of mine said, the best thing I could ever say is, I trust your judgment. So as a business owner, I have employees who are coming to me all the time with questions. What do you think of this? And should I do this? And is it okay. And my husband would say, I'm thinking and making this for dinner. But what do you think? It is just, I trust your judgment. I trust your judgment. You got this. I trust your judgment. And wow, has this really changed things? Because I'm no longer fixing and I'm no longer offering advice and doing the mental load. I'm like putting it right back on other people.

And they're fine. They're actually better for it. And this is something I didn't realize until I just finished this book called The Courage to Be Disliked. Have you read this book? Have you heard of this book? No. It sounds scary. It is a it is.

It is a Japanese phenomenon. They call it. I think it was popular in Japan first. But it is this dialogue between a philosopher and a student. And they're talking about all these things in psychology. But one of the things is that people can feel when you don't trust them. Like, they can feel it. And the best thing that we can do to other people, even if they have wronged us in the past,

is to have this confidence that this time they will succeed. Because what happens? Like, what's the end point? Either they will succeed and they'll be like, oh my gosh, I do have this confidence or like they won't succeed and they'll just be like, you know what? I tried this. This was on me and I could try it again. If somebody comes back to us and like it doesn't work out for them or like they're going to be more willing to talk about it. They're going to be more willing to get our support because we're not going to be that person who's like, I told you so.

You know, I told you to do it this way. You didn't do it this way. And that's why you failed. Like, no one wants to come to you for support for that. And also, like, I've learned to do all these things from failure. If we're not letting other people fail and learn, then we're not doing them any favors. And that's the thing. Like, my spouse or my employees or my kids might not do things the way I do things. But I've had so much more practice. So it's really, I have to learn to like, don't nitpick and just be like, you're doing a great job. You're not doing it. You keep doing. It's terrible. But it's okay.

Don't say anything. Because they'll just continue to grow and get better. I'm not doing. I'm resentful if I take over. And also, I'm not helping anyone else grow. Absolutely. Either. Yeah, absolutely.

And it's hard. And we talked about the emotional pushback that comes as well. It is so hard not to take over because you know that they'll have like this big emotional eruption if they fail or if like it's hard. Like like it's too difficult. And so sometimes we do step in and do it that way. So I would just say like I'm telling myself to let the emotions ride. They are not your responsibility. Other people will have them and you can't control them.

All you can control is your reaction. We're all going to be boundary buddies. and we're all going to make unicorn time number one priority. I think the biggest thing I realized when I started putting boundaries like on myself and I'm not going to do everything for everyone else and I'm going to step back and put myself first is my house suffered a little bit, Joanne. It really did. There was a bump there because again, I was doing everything for everyone and I had years of practice that when I stepped back and was like, no, my husband's going to start grocery shopping and making dinner. And the kids are going to clean the kitchen after dinner. And I'm like,

why is there goo on everything? And why don't we have any vegetables with our meal, Joe? But I had to learn. And yeah, I think sometimes our environment can be reflective. And when we're trying to control everything, including the house and everybody's emotions and everything everywhere, and we're like juggling all the balls, when we start putting some of those balls down, we might see a physical manifestation of that. Have you noticed this? Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, my house is not the most well organized. There are dishes on the counter because that's my son's job to unload the dishwasher. They sit on the counter for like two or three days until we run out of dishes. And then that's when he loads them. And I have to kind of turn like away from that because I look at

the mess and I'm like, what am I teaching? him here. Am I teaching him that mom does everything or am I teaching him that he is responsible for this? I trust him to do it and I am not going to butt in or like do it for him. Because in our house, so me and my husband, my husband is actually better at organizing than I am. I mean, when we first moved in together, he was mad that I didn't fold the towels the right way on the raft like after showering. Not that like he, I was responsible for folding towels. It was with my towel. in particular that I did not hold the right way. And he's like, I'm going to be quiet about this. This is not a big deal. And like he told me that like that he had to hold himself back.

So like both of us when we see messes, we're like, what is our main goal here? That's what we're constantly asking ourselves. And what do I have time to control? What do I want to control? And what do we really want to teach our kids to do? There is laundry all over my son's floor. most days because that's how he likes to do it. And I just closed the door, Cass. I just closed the door. I love that. I feel like I have a lot of anxiety. So I just came up with like, how can everybody have a system that works for their brain? This was a big thing for me discovering the four different organizing styles because I tried to put everybody maybe in my box. And I felt my husband is way better at organizing than I am too. And he was like, you got to do things this way. And there was always

this sort of like resentment and stress. But when I really discovered people organized differently and we set up systems that worked for everyone's brain, it just flows so much better. So now I'm curious what you're organizing style is. I feel like I have a hint. So I'll break it down real fast. Basically, there are people who are very, very detailed and meticulous. If your husband's folding a towel a certain way, He falls into this category. And then there are people who are more laid back big picture thinkers, which I have a feeling is you. I have a feeling that's me too. That's one half of your organizing style. And then the other half is if you are really visual. So seeing your everyday things kind of energizes you. You want to see your things. Or someone who prefers visual simplicity.

So you love visible abundance or you crave simplicity, like looking at a lot of things kind of stresses you out. And that's kind of the other half. So are you a person who is visual abundance or visual simplicity? I'm definitely visual simplicity. I like, I hate, I tell everyone, I'm like, I hate stuff. I hate it. And I like go through.

And honestly, we have a tradition on Black Friday instead of shopping. We try to get rid of as much as stuff as possible and give it to the thrift. Because both me and my husband are like that. I love that. So your husband sounds like a cricket and you sound like what I call a ladybug. So you're like you need fast, easy, simple solutions, but you want it to really be behind closed doors and really minimal feeling really tidy. Yeah.

Okay. If there's less for me to like find a place for, I don't have to expend that energy for it. I love it. So we're both ladybugs. So awesome. That's awesome. I love it. I'll be a ladybug.

Yeah. Okay, this was so good. You are amazing. Please let my followers know where they can buy your book and how they can follow you. I know you have an amazing podcast to you. I'm going to put all that in the show notes, but brag about yourself. Come on, brag about yourself. So you can go to Amazon and pick up a copy of The Best Mom is a Happy Mom. There is a Kindle version there. There's a paperback there. I have so many stories about my own failures and things I learned about them. So go get that. And then listen to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I have. episodes every Tuesday and Thursday with just great people on there and advice to tell you that

you are doing a really great job as a mom and how to really let go and do less is what I want people to take away from my podcast. Do less. Take care of yourself because I end it every time. The best mom's a happy mom. Take care of you. And that's the most important thing. Thank you so much. I love that. Do less for others and more for you. Such a good message. You are incredible. Thank you so much. Thank you, Cass, for being on. This has been great. I found Joanne to be so adorable. Like, did you love her? I loved her. I also, I love that as she's an expert talking about boundaries and doing less, but she also, you can feel that people pleasing undertone in her. Like, she isn't even 100% comfortable with it all the time either, with her mom or with her kids or with her spouse.

it's hard and nobody is saying that this isn't hard. What we are saying is that it's worth it. And I think this is something that I'm always going to have to work on. I'm a people pleaser at my core. And it's going to be a lifelong process, but man, are things better when I have real boundaries? And the unicorn time, that was mind-blowing. If you've taken nothing else from that, I hope you're really honestly thinking about what you can do for you. Something big, something bold, something a little bit scary, and something that feels like that lights you up because you deserve that. I think it'd be really fun to share four ways that people pleasing shows up on a day-to-day basis, what it actually looks like, and what it's actually doing

not only for you, but for your entire family, and what it can lead to. And the first is, I'll just do it so it's done right. I am so guilty of this. It's like whether it's loading the dishwasher or putting away laundry or cleaning or cooking dinner, it's like I do it better and I do it faster. So I'm just going to do it so that it's done right. Except what happens is nobody else learns how to do things and I'm exhausted and burnt out for managing it all. But when I do kind of step back and let other people, there's this fear of failure because I've tied my own success to everybody else's success. So like, if they're not doing it right, I've also not done it right. You know, it's weird. I got some issues I got to deal with. But there is this fear of like, what is the worst that could

happen if it's done wrong? And like that feels anxiety inducing. That's our problem that we need to work on friends. We need to let other people fail and we need to be okay with letting other people fail. And we also need to be okay with not everything always done our way. Because done, shitty, is better than us doing it perfectly. The second way that people pleasing shows up is the I don't want to nag anyone. You don't want to be the person who asked you, first of all, carry the mental load and follow them around and ask them to do it. You don't want to be seen as a nag. You also don't want to deal with the emotions that come back at you. Maybe they're mad or maybe they're snappy with you because you're asking them to do something.

So you just do it all yourself. And you let the resentment grow and you just continue to take it all on because you don't want to put anything on anyone else. The third way that people pleasing shows up is I don't want anyone else to struggle. I don't want anyone else to have to work or feel bad. I want them to be able to rest. So I'll take it all on. I am so guilty of this. I feel like it feels like it's an act of love.

But the reality is I'm not allowing anyone else to build those muscles. I'm not allowing them to build resilience or the skills, right, to do it themselves. Whether it is your kids or your spouse or anyone else in your life, you are not doing anyone of favor. It is not an act of love to do something for someone else when they can do it for themselves. you are actually taking that away from them. And the last way that people pleasing shows up is that you don't want to ruin the mood, or you don't want to, you know, you don't want to rock the boat.

So you don't say anything about the fact that the person left their dirty clothes on the floor instead of putting them a hamper. And you don't say anything about the fact that they didn't put their dishes in the dishwasher. You just quietly do it for them because you don't want to make waves. But then all of that builds inside of you, that resent. And then you just explode and start screaming. Because real communication and being brave enough to say, hey, kind of hurts my feelings that you didn't put that in the dishwasher.

I know you probably weren't thinking about it. But if I do it for you, I'm going to be grumpy about it later. Could you just take a second to do it now? That is the kind of communication that overcomes the people pleasing without you feeling like you're ruining everybody's mood. All right, let's just talk about the whole point of this podcast. Your household cannot run on you. It can't run on your emotional and physical labor alone. It has to be like if you were to take a month off and go to another country, your home has to still run because there will be times where you're sick or you're burnt out or you're tired or you have an improv night. And everything can't fall apart without you or you don't have a system at all. You just have you. A home needs to be built on systems and procedures that everyone can do, not just you. That's the real meaning of a successful home. And you can do this. It's going to suck

at first, okay? It's going to be really, really hard. But when you take yourself out of the equation and you're like, this isn't about me and what I do. This is about how my home runs and what we all do, that's when you see real change and lasting change. I think I definitely see this in my home with the fact that I've embraced the four clutterbug styles and knowing all of my kids' styles. So instead of at the end of the day, what I used to do was like pick up everybody's mess and put it all away, I started looking at it and saying, okay, why are they putting it here? And how can I create a home for it that's nearby? And then how can we get everyone at the end of the night involved in a pickup method?

and how can I ask them like, hey, what's a better system that you think would work for you? And how can I involve them in the process of managing our home? Knowing your style matters, knowing your family's styles matter, and having that conversation with them, like, no one here is messy, no one here is wrong. There is no right way to do anything. Let's together create a home that runs for all of us, that works for all of us. It starts with taking the quiz. I have to take a second to thank Caraway for sponsoring today's podcast. I switched to Carraway cookware

years ago because my old Teflon pans were kind of scratched and I learned that all of those scratches release thousands and thousands of microplastics into the food. And I was like, no, I'm going to have non-toxic cookware. And so Carraway was definitely the brand that stood out to me. And I was so surprised at how not only beautiful they are, they come in so many different colors, but they are incredible quality. They are heavy. I can sear meat and then put the whole pan right in the oven to cook. I feel like Martha Stewart up in here. And they're so easy to clean, too. And of course, I feel really good knowing that they are non-toxic. If you want to give Caraway a try, you could go right now to carewayhome.com slash clutterbug 10 and get an additional 10%

off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive just for my listeners. Carraway non-toxic kitchenware made modern. Now it's time for my favorite part of the podcast Talk to Cass, and we're going to start with a question from Lolo. I am overwhelmed. I don't know where to begin. I know I need to start by decluttering my stuff, but I really don't have any personal items in the main rooms of the house. I mostly have stuff out in the garage for my business and stuff in my bedroom. What gets me is the children's toys, which they're hesitant to part with. My sister-in-law's laundry on our living room couch, which my husband hates but won't say anything. We just don't really know where to begin and how to get everybody on board when everybody's

overwhelmed and burnt out and overstimulated. Please note, we are a neurodivergent house of me, my husband, and our two children, plus my sister-in-law and her daughter and my nephew in a small four-bedroom house. It gets overwhelming a lot. Oh, babe, I'm feeling for you. And also, you're doing the thing we all do, which is definitely people-pleasing. You're like, I want to not make any waves. I don't want to rock the boat. I just want to focus on my own stuff. So when we say, like, just focus on your own stuff, that doesn't mean you also can't lead. And that's what I'd like you to do. I want to challenge you to lead without being the one who does it all. So first, right off the bat, you can do the like the pack-up method with your kids or the yes-no method with your kids. What I'd love to, to see you do is you know your kids best. Okay, girl, get some confidence here. And anything you think

they've outgrown or they don't play with, what if you gathered all that into a big box and a pile to go, but then invite your kids to come in and see if there's anything they actually want to keep? They will definitely pick a few things to keep. But then the rest can go. So you're teaching and you're allowing them to take ownership for the decluttering, but you are getting the ball rolling. And you are the one with the confidence to start. So I would say that's something you could do with your kids' toys. I would also love to see you have a boundary with your sister-in-law. A real conversation that isn't like that's still kind. But hey, I'd like to have a boundary where at the end of the day, there's no personal items allowed in the living room. So clothing, your day-to-day things.

this is like, this is everyone's living space. So I don't, we want to have a rule that at eight o'clock every night, we close the living room and we allow it for like family time. And we don't allow those everyday items to be left in there without a proper home. That goes for toys. That goes for garbage. That goes for clothing. All of it. And I think if you make this a boundary and a rule and you talk about it outside of the living room with everyone, have a family meeting, then that night, when the clothes are still there at 10 o'clock at night, then you can say, hey, you're breaking the rule that we all agreed on. I need you to come do something with your laundry right now. It's going to have a bump in your bed. You're going to have bumps because you've set a boundary.

It is going to be uncomfortable for you. It is going to be uncomfortable for your family members, but it is the change that everyone needs to get to a place where everyone's happier and healthier and less overstimulated and overwhelmed. So you're the leader, my friend. It's time to act like it. Now we have a story from Rosemary. Hi, Cass. It's Rosemary here from a wee corner of the earth called Northern Ireland.

I'm a huge fan and love your tough love. It's what I need to get started to tidy up most days. As a mum of five under 11, it's a busy house. I'm part of Take Your House Back and love you, Dana and Dawn together. You're all a huge inspiration. At any chance I get to share your message and platforms with friends and family, I take it. I was so sad to hear that you were upset after people didn't like to hear your advice and just throw it in the trash. I just wanted to say how freeing hearing that was.

I think it was you who said. said regardless if we throw it out now it was manufactured and at some point is going to end up in the landfill. We have had our time with it and gave it a purpose but keeping it isn't going to help us. So I thought I would keep a list this week and share it with you of what I have thrown out. So here goes. Per willie bits with a small crack in it. Screwdrivers, the small ones from the Christmas crackers, small McClure. McDonald's toys and a couple of small die-cast cars, the hungry hippo game that one

of the hippos were sticking, books that kids had well read but didn't need anymore, magazines, extra kitchen utensils, a couple of pair trousers that needed to be fixed, a baby plug sockets, covers that we had never used, tin food that had expired, sauces that no one had liked eating and finally a pair of oven myths that had burn marks on them. All of these could have been used in some shape or form but me keeping them or trying to find the right home wasn't going to be helpful to me or to anyone else. And that one line that keeps going over my head and your words is you're not trying to re-home a cat. Cass, thank you for everything that you do.

You're such an inspiration and keep going with your message. Love from Northern Ireland. Bye. I love that so much. I love that you kept track of everything. And what's so funny, you talked about the Hungry Hippo game. We had the Hungry Hippo game too and we had all the marbles were missing. And I was like, could I donate this?

Should I buy new marbles first before I donate it? And then I realized even if I did donate without buying new marbles, then the person who bought it at the thrift store would be so, disappointed and I put it in the trash and it felt wrong, but it was the right thing to do. So if you're listening, be like Rosemary. The puzzles that are missing the pieces, garbage. Okay, friend. Don't, don't, don't try to people please. Don't try to people please. The stuff in your home that you're not using and loving and certainly don't people please other people you haven't met in the way of donating. So trash is okay. That was so good, Rosemary. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Hopefully you got something accomplished today just for you. You're feeling really proud of yourself. And more than anything, I hope you start thinking about your own unicorn time and what that would look like. And I hope you're feeling really excited about the possibility of doing something just for you because you are amazing and you deserve it. Thank you so much and I'll see you guys next time. medium power, 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play.

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