Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - I Was Told I Was "Too Much" My Whole Life — Turns Out That Was the Point. Here's Why. | Clutterbug Episode #346

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

Hey Clutterbugs! You know what we don’t talk about enough? ADHD success stories. We need to hear more about building a business (or a life!) when traditional productivity advice just doesn't work for our brains. In this episode, I sit down with my friend Ari Scott — ADHD entrepreneur coach, founder of The ADHD Entrepreneur, and someone who I immediately clocked as "my flavor of weird" the second we met — to talk about working with your ADHD brain instead of against it. Ari was expelled from school at 16, got fired from five jobs, and stumbled into ADHD entrepreneurship coaching almost by accident after a conversation during COVID changed everything. We get real about the shared backstory a lot of us don't talk about — the shame, the self-diagnosis debate, the "too intelligent to have ADHD" dismissals — and how reframing failure completely changed both of our trajectories. We also get into: ✨ Why ADHD traits like impulsivity and creative risk-taking can be genuine superpowers, not just liabilities ✨ Ari's "Magic Five" to-do list method — the antidote to "Eat That Frog" that's actually built for ADHD brains ✨ Why chasing systems and productivity hacks without addressing shame first is often a waste of energy ✨ The difference between optimizing for neurotypical standards vs. optimizing for how your actual brain works ✨ A "brutal honesty" round where Ari calls me out on my own business fears, and I return the favor about her home life (or lack thereof) ✨ Why you don't need a formal diagnosis to start using tools and community that genuinely help If you've ever been told you're "too much," this conversation is a reminder that the things people called your flaws might actually be exactly what makes you unstoppable. Follow Ari on Instagram @the_adhd_entrepreneur, and check the link in her bio for her free masterclass, Starter Kit, and Accelerator program for ADHD entrepreneurs. Want to get organized? Learn 6-Step The Clutterbug Method: https://clutterbug.thinkific.com/courses/Clutterbug-Method You can find more Clutterbug content here: Main YouTube Channel: @Clutterbug Website: http://www.clutterbug.me TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/ #clutterbug #podcast #ariscott #adhd #creativity #entrepreneur Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I feel like I've talked a lot about ADHD recently, and I've read your comments, and a lot of you say things like everyone has ADHD, and it's trending, and please stop saying ADHD, Cass, buckle up, because today we're going to be talking more about ADHD. But before you click away, don't click away. Here's the reality, whether you have been diagnosed or not, whether you have ADHD or not, There are strategies that are so helpful. There are tools and techniques and systems that help when your executive function just isn't showing up. And what I mean by executive function is focus.

Are you feeling distracted, overwhelmed? Are you having trouble getting motivated? Are you having trouble following through? If the answer to this is yes, whether you have ADHD or not doesn't really matter. The solutions are the same. And today I'm going to be talking to. my friend, Airy Scott. She and I have so much in common and I feel like we connect on a level because we are both so hyper and so obnoxious that, I don't know, it feels kind of like

looking in a mirror when I'm chatting with her, except if in that mirror I had a very cool accent. My point is we're going to talk to Ari about ADHD and entrepreneurship because if you have a brain like ours, it's really hard to keep a job. So we usually end up starting our own business. She's going to give helpful tips and advice, but just like always, I want you not to just listen. I want you to take action. And I think I'm going to spoil something for you because the best piece of advice that Ari gives in this interview is her advice on a to-do list. Aries shared a productivity hack that she developed called The Magic Five. And basically, it's when you have a big to-do list or you write down, you brain up all the things you want to get done.

It can be as many things as you want. The secret is to circle all the things that take five minutes or less and do those first. Because this is going to give you dopamine. This is going to get you started. This is going to get you like fired up and feeling energized and motivated for. all the other things on the list. So I want you to think about five-minute tasks that you can do while listening to this. Take out the trash. Throw out those leftovers from the fridge. Empty the dishwasher. I've timed it. It takes three minutes. So this is something you can do in

five minutes or less. That's what I want you to focus on, these little five-minute or less tasks, whether they're on your to-do list or you're just noticing them as you're walking around your house. Putting away one load of laundry, yep, takes less than five minutes. So with that in mind, my friends, your magic five to-do list. Let's jump in and meet Erie Scott. Hi, Ari. Welcome to the Clutterbug podcast. Hi, thanks for having me. Hi, I'm so excited. We're actually friends. So I feel like it's awkward because we're doing businessy stuff right now together. But I'm just happy to have you here. I don't know why we haven't done this before. I'd imagine a mixture of executive dysfunction and busy calendars.

It's definitely those things. I have this thing where sometimes, like, even no matter how much I love someone, I forget that they exist sometimes until I see them. Like, oh, yes, I just, you're amazing. You fell out of my brain and now I see you when you're back in again. I'm trying. Is that you too? Oh, yeah.

I think that's pretty standard across the board. ADHD was for sure. Yeah. I would love you to tell my followers a little bit about you. First, I will say to them, I met Ari at a neurodiversion event that I went to. I was so nervous because I don't do social situations well. I find I mask constantly. And even though this was neurodiversion, I was still masking. I met you and it took about 2.5 seconds for me to be like, she's my flavor of weird. Because even amongst ADHDers, is it a spectrum? Because not everybody has the same flavor, but you and I share a flavor. We do. We definitely do. And I think, yeah, I felt like there is different flavors, but I also feel like there's ADHD flavors and then there's weird

flavors and they don't even need to connect, you know. Yeah, so true. The thing I thought was also cool, we kind of have a very similar backstory and something you've embraced, something I'm still ashamed of a little bit. I just started talking about it a few years ago. The first time I ever told my story was on stage as a keynote at Chad, and I sobbed, snobble tears. It was so embarrassing. But you've really embraced this. So if you could share your backstory before we jump into your amazing career now, I do feel like, that might be helpful for people watching who are undiagnosed or ADHD and just feel like

this crippling shame that I definitely feel. Yeah, just my, just for context, my backstory, just with my ADHD diagnosed. There's a lot of chapters in the backstory. So I just want to, I want to give the most helpful chapters of my backstory possible. So yeah, essentially I, I was, it's funny. I always hear on, often on podcast. and just across social media in general, the typical and kind of very popular narrative now of women don't get diagnosed with ADHD because they present differently.

I hear that a lot. And at least for me, that actually wasn't the case. So I presented in very much what would be looked at for the lens of like the stereotypical boy ADHD, right? So I had all of the hyperactive symptoms. I was like, you know, would chat to whoever was next to me, like disruptive, whatever. want to call it. And so when I went to get tested, I was 10 years old. And I remember going to the doctors.

I don't really remember what happened because I have terrible memory because, you know, ADHD. But what I do remember is that afterwards, the doctors told my parents that I was too intelligent to have ADHD. And so I didn't get diagnosed. And then the narrative became that I was choosing to behave that way with no reason for that. And also, my, My mum was happy that I hadn't been diagnosed of ADHD because this was at the same time that in the tabloid newspapers in the UK, ADHD was getting like wrecked. It was like ADHD means you'll grow up to be all kinds of bad, like it's, you know, it's video games, it's bad parenting, whatever it is.

So that was that. And so the behavior continued, all the ADHD behaviors, but with no reason for them. And so it just got progressively worse over time. And although in my much earlier school reports, it says, you know, all about my enthusiasm. And when I'm interested in something, I'm like all in it and have loads of questions, as you go through the years and you look at them and I get a bit older, it starts to turn more and more negative because I was getting so much criticism. And I started to just play the role, right? I think any kid, that's kind of what happens.

And so ultimately, I ended up getting expelled from school when I was 16 years old. and kind of that was that. I kind of set the tone for the next chapters of my life up until probably around my ADHD diagnosis when at the same time I also started a business. So those things happened in the same kind of three months. So it was all maybe it was destiny or fate or whatever you want to call it. But that's how I got to teaching ADHD is to build better businesses. I love that.

I also presented like a typical boy, I think. I was raised in the 80, so I didn't even know, I've never even heard anyone mention ADHD in my childhood, but I was so hyper and exactly the same as you. In the beginning, I've gone through my report cards. And it's like, she's energetic and she's so inquisitive and she's so curious and she has such a great imagination. And by grade three, it's she doesn't sit still. She disrupts everyone. And then by grade five, it's like, she's awful. You know, she's a terrible kid. But I was. And isn't bad, I was hyper. Yeah. I was so hyper. By grade six, my teacher actually moved my desk into the hall for the entire year. By grade eight, being told I'm bad, calm down. You're so annoying.

What's wrong with you? I internalized that and was like, well, if I'm bad, I'm going to be bad. Me too. Right? Right. And I also think that because the school was, an environment is so understimulating. It's basically ADHD help if you're hyperactive, right? It's like sit still, in a chair, take notes, listen, like consistently. It's the most

understimulating environment that you could possibly be in. And so therefore, when you are hyperactive, you seek stimulation. And we get stimulation from conflict. So I would also be getting stimulation from getting in trouble. And so what I was learning, or I guess training my brain to learn subconsciously was this is more interesting when I'm in trouble, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. School really rewards sit still, be quiet, and have a good memory. And those are the three things I just could not do. My memory is awful. So why are we being rewarded for being able to memorize instead of creative thinking or it doesn't we're not going to crap on the school system. I mean, I'm happy to. Let's crap on the school system. But absolutely. Like I, instead of it being like, oh, you have something. Let's adapt your environment. let's see how we can help you. It's your bad be like everyone else, this conformity thing. And I just, I physically could not because my brain does not work like that. So yeah, getting a, I didn't get a

diagnosis until I was 40. And I just sobbed because for the first time I had so much forgiveness for that little girl who was told that she was bad her entire life when all she was trying to do was be good. And I think what if you have a, if you're a parent and you have an ADHD child, I have children with ADHD, they are annoying, okay? They can be so annoying. But no, like, try to catch yourself and see like if every interaction is you just correcting them because that's what was happening to me. My whole life was just correction. People calm down, be quiet, be less, be less annoying. You, you, you, You need to try harder, have more discipline.

This is what you're doing wrong. Every conversation with every adult, even when I became an adult, every boss, everything, was constant correction of me not being normal or good or whatever. And yeah, I'm so happy that you got diagnosed younger and you really, it sounds like you embrace this and just went with it. What makes you decide to be an entrepreneur and specifically to help other ADHD people? And also, why are so many ADHDers entrepreneurs? Okay, so that's three different questions.

So I'm going to try and remember all of them. So I actually didn't start out doing ADHD and entrepreneurship. I came here by accident. So I was building a company called Handel, which was like an ethical food delivery platform. For life of me, I can't remember why I started Handle. It's something that really bugs me. I don't know. I literally don't remember the moment I decided,

but what I know is that we had an app and a whole platform and it was good to go. And we had a $100,000 investor. And so I went in to pitch, handle into a room of a bunch of really successful entrepreneurs. And my profile said that I had ADHD in it, so I've just been diagnosed. And someone in the room bought it up.

And then all of a sudden in this room of like super successful entrepreneurs, about 80% of them started being like, oh, I have ADHD, I have ADHD. And that connection really. really fascinated me because what I'd learned in the short time I was building Candle was that while I was a really bad employer was a really good entrepreneur, right? I wasn't afraid to take risk. I was a creative problem solver and it was really appealing to all of the parts that I was learning at the same time were coming from me having ADHD. And so I'd assumed at that point that

I'd found my lifeline, that entrepreneurship would have been my lifeline. And in that room, I realized that entrepreneurship can be a lifeline for any ADHD or who wants to take hold. of it. And it just fascinated me and I became obsessed with it. And I started a space on Clubhouse where I spoke to ADHD entrepreneurs every single day for a year at grid to like tens of thousands of people. We ran all these crazy stuff. A bunch of other ADHD entrepreneurs running spaces in it. And I was doing it all for free because I was just so interested in it and I was learning so much. And then I took everything I was learning. I took it to Instagram. And then at some point in that journey, I was like, you know, if I'm going to keep doing this, I have to get paid.

yeah it's not sustainable i was just you know COVID was like ending and and and so i was like okay well i've learned so much i've learned all these frameworks i wanted i want to teach these frameworks to other adage entrepreneurs because for me entrepreneurship essentially saved my life and so i knew it wasn't just the case for me i'd spoken to all these people and i was like this this is just something that needs to exist in the world this is how i can contribute yeah oh that's so good i think about my own life when i think about entrepreneurship and i've realized recently I've been an entrepreneur the whole time. It just doesn't look like a traditional entrepreneur.

But I was like, I remember when I was 10, I got a dog grooming kit for Christmas and I was like charging $10 to groom the neighbor's dogs. And even in my teen years, when I was doing my, I was like hungry. I have to eat. I was homeless. I was treating crime like entrepreneurship. I was, it was elaborate, multi-step process and talking to. There's so many. I think that might be, how long is the statute of limitations?

I think that that might be where I learned how to be an alternate was in that same error that I, because you and I share that chapter two, right? Yeah. I'm not making, I'm not trying to make light of it. I'm just saying, in reality, that was entrepreneurship, not legal, but. But I think it's important to talk about because I think it connects to the third question you asked me, which is why, why are so many people, for 80s entrepreneurs. And I think that that answer is twofold. The first one is because we're

really good at it. And the other side of it, which also applies to this, is what option do we have? Right. And it's just like, if you can't keep a job, so it's one or two routes, right? And I think that I think that's really important to talk about. And I don't think it's even making light of it, but it's just like for me, I know it definitely could have gone one way or the other. And I would like to help it go the other way for as many people as possible. Yeah. Did you have trouble keeping job. I can say I, with confidence, I'm pretty sure I've been fired from every single job I've ever had. Like, I can't think of one that I was like, I don't want to work here anymore. It was like you're fired. And I tried really hard. It wasn't that I was a bad employee, but I must have been.

So, yeah, I've been fired from five jobs. And I've also quit jobs. And the pattern has always been the same for me. I would get a job and it's usually a job I was underqualified for because I interview really well because of my personality, which comes to my ADHD. And that would be good because I would have to like learn a new skill set and that would stimulate me and I'd be interesting, interested in it. The problem would then become, I would get good at the job and then the job would get boring. And then my performance would drop. And either I would hate it or they would hate me and there was no in between. Except, ironically, the last job I had before I was an entrepreneur and I was so annoyed at my boss because she was great and she's still great.

and she was the coolest person ever. And when I quit to go full-time into my business, I literally go on the phone, I said, I'm so annoyed at you. She was like, why? I was like, so I've been dreaming of a day where I can be like, I don't need this job anymore.

I quit. I've built my own thing. But I really like you and respect you. You've done a lot for me and I love you. So you've stolen this moment from me. But yeah, aside from that, yeah, it's, it was always going to be doomed to fail for me. You're obviously a lot more intelligent than I am.

My problem was I just questioned everything too much, I think. And also tried to like, that's a dumb way to do it. Why wouldn't we do it this way? And then if they were like, because we do it this way, I'd say, I'm just going to do it this way because it seems way better. It was always this thought of like, let's do step by step in a row has my brain cannot. My brain is thinking all over every way. around except for the roadmap, step-by-step instruction. So that doesn't work in 99% of the jobs, which I think is why entrepreneurship is so good. Well, and why you're so good at it. Because I'm

thinking outside the box. But I didn't feel like, I still don't feel like I'm good at business. So this is where your amazing coaching comes in because I'm not good with anything traditional that comes with being an entrepreneur, like planning. and details and accounting. None of that is my jam. I'm like a throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and some of it sticks, but most of it falls, but at least a few stick,

and that is kind of been my philosophy. I don't put any of my things in files. You could put a gun to my head right now and be like, Cass, where's something blah, blah, blah, that I could not tell you where it is. That would be super extreme coaching. And yet, I have still been able to be successful. When you work with entrepreneurs, you've worked with hundreds of ADHD entrepreneurs.

Is there like a skill set? Is there something that kind of defines people who will be successful from people who aren't? Or do you think it's all about systems? Do you think anyone can be successful if they have the right system? No, I don't. I wish that I did, but I don't. I think that what actually matters in kind of the route to success for ADHD entrepreneurs is figuring out how it works for you.

And that takes a lot of self-reflection and a lot of work and a lot of trial and error. And I think that systems are unbelievably helpful for removing the executive functioning, the planning, the file storage, and so on and so forth. but I think the goal of those systems is to make enough money to replace them with people. And I think I would imagine that's what you've done, right? Because essentially when you're starting out for most of the businesses I work with, you're a solo ADHD entrepreneur, which means you have the way of the world on your shoulders. You know, you're responsible for delivery, for acquisition and for operations.

That's a lot for anyone, let alone if you have ADHD. So in that gap between that's where I am right now and I can start hiring people who are good enough to take these things over. And then also explain to them how to do the things. I think systems are like a non-negotiable thing. But I don't think that you can give anyone systems and it will make them successful as an entrepreneur. And I don't think that that applies to ADHD or neurotypical. Because I think that being successful as an entrepreneur requires a lot more than systems and planning. I really love to hear you say that because I did a talk with you. I met with you and you and you're and And you were like, you need notion and you need, and I was like, oh, well, you do need notion.

You specifically. I know. I definitely need notion. But, yeah, no, but all those things, I'm not good at technology. Listen, I find it super overwhelming and I suck. I can barely work my phone most days. Do you have someone who is, though? My husband.

So for, but he wasn't helping up until, like, I've been doing this 17 years. and he has just been helping the past five. And I didn't have employees in the beginning at all. For me, I think it slowly grew out of epic failure after epic failure. And that's what I'd say is maybe a little bit different with ADHDers versus other entrepreneurs who are struggling. And I could be totally wrong. I'm just going to give you my thought here. I've failed my whole life.

I have sucked so hard. I have been told I'm the worst. worst from like four years old. I'm like, you suck, you suck, you suck. I, I, I feel the tests and I I'm so used to failure that I'm not afraid of it. I kind of just expected it. And so when I had failure, it didn't stop me from dusting myself off and trying again. Yeah. And when, and you had nothing to lose also. Nothing to lose. And I think, I think that literally touches on the question that you asked me before, which is the difference. within people that I think with ADHD that will be successful as entrepreneurs and will find it a lot harder

is I think when you get go through the experience of multiple failures the version of you in the present that manifests in one of two ways one you don't care anymore you're like well I've failed enough times what's enough one added to the pile I have nothing to lose I'll risk it all every time I don't care I'm so used to it the other one is it creates there a really deep fear to do it again and to fail again And entrepreneurship is public failure, especially in the modern way that entrepreneurship is usually operated, which is through social media. And so I see this with my clients, and we really have to work through the internal side of this a lot is the fear of failure side of things. Because if it manifests the other way, no amount of systems are going to be the tipping point. Like ultimately, a lot of the time, in that case, it even goes the other way and systems become a protection mechanism because they become a justification for being busy. but not being productive and not doing the things that will actually grow the business that expose

them and their vulnerabilities to failure. Yeah. So how do you get over that? Because I have my own, I'm not like a coach like you, but I have helped a lot of people specifically with their homes and decluttering and organizing. And I come across this over and over again. And what was really fascinating to me is the people with the messiest homes are such perfectionists always. hand they're like they want to do it right they want the perfect plan they don't want to waste time doing something that they'd have to redo and this obsession with not failing or making a mistake is the biggest mistake at all so when I'm coaching them I'm literally like girl you got to suck more

have you tried have you tried being crappy at it have you tried failing on purpose and that when people dip their toe in the water I call it like exposure therapy to sucking has really helped people break through because if you're going in with the expectation of like, yeah, it's fine, it's going to be bad and it might be embarrassing, but I'm going to fail anyways. It kind of lets your guard down and allows you. And the more you practice, the better you get. So you don't have to like start out great. You know what I'm saying?

With your coaching, how do you help people overcome that fear of failure? Yeah. So I think the first step is recognizing it and realizing that that's the driving factor. And you'd be surprised by how many people don't realize that that is like what the obstacle is, right? And I think the reason that that happens is our brains are designed for survival, not happiness, and specifically not to achieve the desires we have for ourselves and the outcomes that we want, right? And so the first step is, hey, have you considered that this is what's going on? some evidence for that because 80s years love evidence.

I prove it. Prove it to me, right? Yeah. So that's number one. And then the second one is it's probably a little easier for me because I then anger it to, well, basically, do you want to be successful as an entrepreneur? Yes. Okay, well, then you have to get over this thing.

Otherwise, that will not happen. So do you want to live in your survival instincts and protect yourself from this exposure and stay safe within that more than you want to? to grow your business and design a life for yourself that you want, which is ultimately what we all become entrepreneurs. We want autonomy, right? We want the freedom that comes with that. And so usually the decision, always the decision is, yeah, I want to grow my business more. So that works that well. So then it becomes, okay, so what are your triggers for this? So let's say, for example, big one, posting content, right, posting on social media. And then recognizing what

the survival instinct is within that moment of, I need to make some content, I need to post it. And then what that feeling is trying to get you to do, which is avoidance. And then deciding, is that what I want to do? Or do I want to do something else in service of what I'm trying to achieve? And once that decision is yes, it then becomes, am I willing to accept the consequences of that? because the thing is, is even when we do the thing that we know will give us the consequences we don't want, we know what those consequences are. And that's what safety looks like, especially if that ADHD is, right? It's predictable consequences.

However, when we do the thing that we know is going to be beneficial, but it has unpredictable consequences, that's terrifying to a lot of people. And so it's choosing to accept those consequences, whatever they may look like, on repeat, until you become comfortable. with them, which is the same thing as exposing to failure, but it's doing, it's altering the state behind it first because it's giving the autonomy and the decision. You are choosing this. That's brave and celebrating that courage. Yeah. I mean, you're giving a lot of thought and maybe there's people with ADHD out there that are thinking a lot deeper than me. I have a

memory of a goldfish. So when I do something and it doesn't work out and I have a negative consequence, it's cool because I'll forget about it in 2.5 seconds and I don't like and that could be a big thing for me is I literally do not really remember any of the failures. But I also don't remember a lot of the successes either. So I'm constantly on this treadmill of like, oh, what's next, what's next? But never really celebrating the stuff that's worked out. But it's also a good thing because I don't dwell on the things that went epically wrong. Okay, I would like to hear your systems that you have because let's get real. I need more systems. I know I do or else I'm just going to be, I got to work smarter, not harder. And I've managed this in my home. I found things and systems

that work to make life so much easier. But let's talk about your life and your executive function. Do you have systems that not only you use, but you recommend to your clients that you're like, I could not live without this. And what did those look like? In my personal life? Yeah. No. Or in your business?

Yes. Oh, okay. And the reason I say that is, because I can't, like, I get asked this question a lot, and it's always very funny to me because I'm like, oh, no, I've been so busy focusing in on, like, that one area that the rest of it is just like, like, a lot of, like, just hoping for the best. But so I'm really good at productivity systems and business systems. and I also use it as a source of motivation for my business because I'm like, well, the more money you make, the more you can pay people to manage your personal life.

And it's funny because when you ask me to call this, I was like, I was just definitely going to ask me this question. I'm definitely not going to have a good answer for it because I can give you, you know, I can, I can tell you how to apply some systems that I have to your, like, personal life just based on the knowledge that I have. I'll tell you the truth about me, Cass, like I leave booking flights to last minute. I get so much ADHD attacks on booking flights. I, like, my laundry is, like, the greatest pain of my life. I've never been able to figure it out. Like, I am literally not the person to ask. And I was like, I wonder if this is going to be a problem for this podcast,

because I am literally not the person to ask. But I think it's because I just don't care that much. And I think it's the same thing as with what you were saying, where, like, I don't have, I just, I'm so over feeling ashamed about it, that I'm just like, it will happen when it happens. It will get done when it gets done. Which is probably, like, the worst possible, I can give to your audience.

I'm just like, you should just be, you should just care less about it. I don't actually think that that is terrible advice because I think they're caring so much that it's stopping them from taking action. Okay, fine. So you suck at laundry and you're wherever you're living, because I know you're like a nomad, you move all over the place, which is cool. You're like in Bali or like Romania or whatever every week somewhere else. But okay, okay.

But you have a system in your business that you, If it's notion, I'm going to just leave, though, because is it complicated? Can you share with us like some basic simple systems that anyone can do? Yeah. For me, like, I'm just, I write a daily to do list and I'm only allowed to write three things on it. That seems crazy, but that is something that's super helpful for me. So what you're doing there is using the preratio principle, which is one of my all-time favorite productivity systems for ADHD.

So the priority principle basically dictates that 20% of the stuff we do is responsible for 80% of the outcomes, the desired outcomes that we want, right? And the problem is, is finding that 20%. And so when you have ADHD, obviously, one of the struggles that are associated with ADHD is, is information prioritisation. So everything feels equally as important. So actually, what you're doing there is already that you're finding that 20% that creates the 80% of the results and you're doing that in. So I think that's great for like a productivity system. For the little things, I suggest starting the day using a system I created called the Magic Five to-do list, which is essentially look at your to-do list, the whole thing. I put a five next to anything that takes five minutes or less and start with those because that's like super low barrier to entry.

And it gives you a little dopamine here each time that you're ticking it off, which then gives you momentum to do your like three non-negotiables or to do whatever looks next, which you could apply to home stuff as well, I would imagine. I haven't, but I can imagine that you'd probably get. Right. So there's little ones like that, but I think the most important question when it comes to a system has nothing to do with, like, what platform you're using or even the ins and outs.

It just starts with what outcome are you trying to achieve? And what is the simplest route to achieving that outcome, right? So when people are like, what systems you use, I'm like, well, what do you want to do? Like, what are you trying to systemize? And defining the outcome of the system is just absolutely. I'm sure it's the same with what you do is absolutely step one, right? It'd be kind of like if you went to clean someone's house and you weren't making it clear

that the outcome was to clean the house. Like, it would be crazy, right? Then it's the same thing. I like that. Okay, okay. I don't know how I would apply that to things, but I do like that you're like, what is the outcome here? It's something I've never really thought about because I have a lot of problems. Listen, my biggest issue is file management digital.

I'm supposed to be an organizing expert. People all the time will say, how do you organize your digital files? I'm like, I use Gmail. I just search for it. And when my Gmail's so big, I just hit select all delete. Yeah. Okay. So what are the consequences of that being?

Sometimes there's things that were important that are poof gone forever. But I try to remember that person's name and then reach out to them and say, sorry, I deleted that email. But sometimes I just don't. But is it really a big deal? Well, you have to tell me that because that's why I ask what the concept. Because it sounds like you have a system. And then it becomes like how do you want to improve that system and to what end? Because like what is the outcome for you if like when you say like I need to organize my digital files, it's not an outcome. It's a goal. It's like the goal is to organize your digital files. Why? What outcome are you? What outcome are you looking to? And is it a specific part of the files that you need. And then it becomes a lot simpler. Right. What aspect of that needs organizing? But more importantly, why? What is the outcome? I think I think it's like, because I'm supposed to, which is so gross to say. Like, I feel like I'm supposed to not have

how many? Let's see. Uh, oh, 16,000 unopened emails. I feel like I'm supposed to, especially in the business that I do, but the reality is you're right. Why? What I tried doing for a long time was hiding my email from everyone and like, just you can't contact me. That is actually proven very helpful. Good luck finding my email. Would you like to know how I run my emails? I think that might be helpful for you. Yes. I have a virtual assistant who reads my emails on my behalf and then sends me a text message with anything that is important and like anything that requires action in numbered bullet like one, two, three. And then I reply with the number one with what I need to happen. And then sometimes I'll be like, right, can you write this email that says vaguely this

and send it to me and then I can approve it so I don't have to write it. So I didn't even open it anymore. Oh, man. Very simple system. The outcome was for me, by the way, to not have to read my emails. That was what I wanted to systemize. I was like, because it takes so much of my time, like it takes so much of my time. I don't do it.

It is. It is. It is. It's annoying. I feel like I don't even want a deal. I just don't want email. Maybe that's like, why do I even need it? Well, that's how I feel.

That's why I don't, I mean, I have it, but I don't, I don't open it. I don't want to. I think it's terribly designed. I hate everything. So now someone else does it for me. That's so good. Okay, that's so clever. Mm-hmm.

I need another system. Now, for my listeners who are like, first of all, a lot of us grew up in the 70s and 80s. We were not diagnosed and we're not even sure because nowadays this narrative is everyone has ADHD or it's not a real thing. And there's a lot of shame for people who know in their heart that there's something wrong, but they were never diagnosed. And it feels like if they're now like holding their hand up, like, I think I might have it too. The whole world collectively rolls their eyes at that person and says, oh, yeah, because everyone is ADHD now. And so do you have advice, I suppose, for that person listening specifically? And then the people who not, there may be not even entrepreneurs.

So I'm asking you a twofold question because my brain will forget it if I don't. But so for people who are like that who are struggling with executive function, even if they haven't been diagnosed, is there a tool that you find or a system that you find helpful specifically for that scatterbrained, have trouble following through, have trouble focusing thing that we all struggle with? So, okay, so yeah, that was a two-fold question. So I make sure that I'm clear on it. So the first one was what would I say to somebody who thinks that they might have ADHD

but has the shame of carrying raising their hand in a time where it's being seen as a trend. That's right, right? Yes, exactly. So, funny enough, it's actually a similar answer. What outcome are you looking for? And the reason I would say that is because if you're looking for a diagnosis because you want answers to why you've been feeling this way, then go and get a diagnosis. Get your answers. Get the clarity for yourself. The rest of the world's perspective doesn't matter. If you are carrying that

shame until you work through that, you don't have to tell anyone. No one needs to know, right? But if otherwise you're just going to carry that way, if it's in your head already, you're carrying that around all the time. It's not just going to go away, right? So if it's from that lens, that's number one. If the outcome you're looking for is to try medication and see if it makes your life easier, same answer. Definitely go. But your journey is your own. You don't owe an explanation. to anybody. You don't even have to give an explanation to anyone, you know. But if you want, if you think that not knowing the answer to that is hurting your quality of life or the potential of your quality of life, go and take ownership of that and enjoy your life as much as possible with the information

that you need. Or if you don't need the diagnosis to verify it for you and you know, then start looking for the information online to learn about yourself and to learn how to operate within that. I don't know a single person, a single ADHD like coaching company or anything like that that requires a diagnosis, a professional diagnosis for you to get support. Like I know for us, self-diagnosis is valid enough because if you resonate enough of what we're talking about, then we are going to be able to help you as an entrepreneur. I know it's the same for Chris, my girlfriend with Shimmer and ADHD ADHD coaching, right? And it's just like in some ways, like you're kind of martyering yourself for the sake of the comfort of others. And it's just not worth it.

It's just not worth it, you know? Yeah, that is so true. Okay, friends listening, even if you don't have a formal diagnosis, we can still look to the tools and the, like, resources out there that will make life better, period. Like, there are so many things just learning that I've ADHD that I was able to connect with the community and learn things I didn't know that have just made life easier. So that's what I'd like you to share. If you have a few kind of tools or tricks or advice,

for people, whether they have a diagnosis or not, that can help them maybe start a business, but maybe just like get through the day without feeling like you just want to burn everything to the ground. My answer is going to be annoying. Oh, no. I know. I'm so sorry in advance, but I'm just going to be honest because I promised myself I would always do that.

I think that especially when we're in that really early stage of the journey, we're so drawn to looking for like productivity hacks or productivity tools or like whatever the magic pill is that is going to sort this situation out. And while I do think that there's a lot of things that can really help,

I think reaching for those things without focusing in on what I think the first thing to work on is, which I'll tell you in a second, is kind of wasted energy because you'll just download the app or try out the tool or build the thing and use it for free

weeks and then it will fall into the cracks and then you'll believe it will work over and over and over again. And so for me, I would actually do research on shame and how shame manifests. Because when you're attacking those things from a lens of still carrying the shame that so many people do, especially when they're much later in life diagnosed, which is fair enough. You know, I'm not invalidating that. It'd be very weird if you didn't feel shame around that stuff. Then it's just going to become more evidence to yourself that you're not good enough until you are happy with accepting who you are. I think the best work you can do for yourself as someone who is just diagnosed of ADHD is literally self-compassion, intentional self-compassion, right?

Because no, like, yeah, I would, you know, I can give you websites that will give you app downloads that I think are cool. I can do that, you know, get a, get, get a, I can tell you to, to go out and buy a pome d'orro timer and see if that works for you, if you work in 25 minutes and five minutes, like five minutes off or to, you know, give me my own. system, try out the magic five to do this. And that stuff does work, but it's like it's temporary. And I think that ultimately what really gets in people's way is they're so angry at themselves for how they operate, that they don't give themselves to operate as ADHD is. They are trying to

learn how to operate as neurotypicals. And until you are happy with operating as an ADHD and willing to accept that about yourself, the cycle is just going to continue. That was actually very freaking helpful. And wise because you're right i'm still always looking for like some magical hack that's going to fill in the void i have about four pomadero whatever it's called timers all over my i have tried i buy all the just let me buy it or let me you know subscribe to some service that's somehow going to fix my brain but you're right that the times in my life where i am able to actually move forward are the times where I'm just loving on myself.

Where I'm just like, girl, you're weird, but it's a cool kind of weird. So it's fine. Yeah. And I feel like from what I know about you, Cass, the areas where you embrace your ADHD, the areas that you've had the most success in your life. You're so right. Yeah. And for me, the diagnosis was so life-changing.

because I had forgiveness for that little girl. And I don't think I would have been able to ever let go with that. I still have shame, but it's way less if I hadn't got the diagnosis. But if somebody is not carrying that, perhaps they don't need a formal diagnosis. They can literally just find ways to love their quirkiness or whatever it is about themselves and work with it instead of against it. You're so right. We're trying to fit into a mold.

And that sounds like that's the problem. Yeah, and it's systemic, right? Like, neurotypicalness is celebrated in society. That's why we didn't do well in school, right? So it's really hard to undo all of that stuff. But honestly, if I could share one piece of information, it would always be that. And I say it to my clients all the time.

I'm like, are you optimizing to get the best out of your ADHD brain? Or are you optimizing to be neurotypical? Because you are not neurotypical, and trying to do things to make yourself neurotypical is always going to be a losing battle. Let it go. I can see not only how that relates back to me in my in my job, like running as the CEO of Clutterbug, but also the advice I'm giving to all the millions of people who are following me. I'm like, you're a butterfly. Why are you trying to be a cricket? Right? Like, stop folding if you don't. Who cares? Throw it in a bin. Like, who cares? Like, just do what comes naturally. Put things away, like how you naturally drop it and put it down. And you're saying the same. thing, but in life. So we're not talking about specifically how you manage your physical things. You're like talking about how you manage every single aspect. And looking at my own career,

you're right. All the, all the ways that I was thriving is when I embrace my differences and the parts of me that everyone has told me was annoying my whole life. I like to talk nonstop, especially I like to be animated and talk with my hands, which in real life, people are like, oh, you're going to hit me in the face on YouTube. Those do very well. I have to take a second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Caraway. I switched to Caraway cookware years ago, and there's no going back. I love that it comes in lots of different colors. I have the navy and the cream. More importantly, they're non-toxic. Did you know that non-stick pans and pots, when you scratch them, it releases thousands of microplastics, which is so bad for you. Caraway cookware

is non-toxic. It's heavy duty. I feel like Martha Stewart when I'm cooking with this. And it's super easy to clean. If you are looking at investing in new cookware, you got to give Carraway a try. Go to caraway.com and use my code Clutterbug 10 to save up to 10% right now. That is careaway.com and use the code Clutterbug 10 to save 10%. On YouTube, people like high energy and on social media. They like the kind of obnoxious, fast talking. In real life, people will be like, oh, calm down. It's a little off-putting and I find it hard to connect.

Oh, I love it when that happens, though. So this is what I'm talking about. Like, I love it when people don't like me because it's just such an easy filter now. Like, I can tell, like, you know, we're basically trained to read the energy of a situation on how it's going. And I know in five minutes if I'm too much for someone. And I'm like, great, now we never need to speak again. Like, this is fantastic news. Like, I, for me, it's just, like, I love efficiency, right?

So for me, I'm just like, this is really efficient way to find people that I want in my life. You're a prime example of that. We connect because we're really similar in that. I will never think that you are too much, too energy, energetic or too, wherever you. said all the words that you said right but but 99% of the people I've met including my family like they're all like you're too too much I never really had people around me who had ADHD or hyperactive ADHD specifically so it was like yeah it wasn't until I started posting on the internet that I finally people were like oh you're pretty cool and I'm like

like, are you talking about me? Because everyone has always told me that I am the most annoying human being that they've ever met. But again, leaning into that has proven to be successful for me, leaning into all the things. I get really like super passionate and want to talk about the same thing over and over and over again. And I'm not even on the spectrum, but I get really like hyper focused on things. Again, that does really well in my business. Not so, in my personal life, you know, where people's eyes glaze over. In my defense, I did caveat that I wasn't the person to speak to. You don't want to talk about organizing your house?

No. I don't even have it. I literally, I'm a digital nomad. I am so bad at organizing a house. I opted out of one. Which I think is awesome. You're like, I suck at maintaining a home, so I'm just not going to have one. See, efficient solve.

That was the outcome I was looking for, the simplest possible system. And I get the novelty of living everywhere in different countries, which I love. Which is so brilliant. And I think maybe this is the part of ADHD that's so special because some people say, a lot of people say, it's a superpower. It also sucks. Let's get real. There's parts of, if you're trying to be neurotypical, having ADHD is a nightmare.

If you are trying to fit in on purpose and do things the way, everybody else does, you are going to suffer. That's the reality. But what you're saying is stop trying and just be you, unapologetically you. Yeah. And embrace the parts of you that the neurotypical society is saying, that's wrong. And that's where you're going to have success. Yeah. And I 100% believe that to be true. I also appreciate that that's an oversimplification. and doesn't take into account, you know, if you have a job or like, and the environments where that just doesn't work for you. And I think that I'm blessed in the fact that I am an entrepreneur,

became an entrepreneur because of that. So I understand that that is easier said than done. But in the things that just involve you, as in like how productive you are in your home or whether it's messy or, you know, all of that sort of thing, like just self-compassion and self-understanding goes so far. and understanding like what optimized ADHD looks like for you in your personal part of your life is way more beneficial than how can I just not have ADHD because you cannot just not have ADHD.

That is just the reality, right? So learn how to make it work for you and start internally with that being the desired outcome. Okay, want to play a quick, brutal honesty game together? Yes, yes, I do. Yeah, I love this so much. So I'm going to give you some brutal honesty advice in your life, probably about home type things. And you're going to give me some brutal honesty advice of things I should be doing in my business. Do you want to ask questions first so that you can have more context to go from?

Or are you pretty much no? Okay. Let's just get a couple. Let me ask me a couple of really quick questions. So the first one is, what are you trying? to achieve in your business right now. What's the ultimate biggest thing? I want to have it carry on without me. So not that I'm dying. I'm not terminal or anything, but I've been talking about the same thing for so long. And I love it and I'm passionate, but I don't want it to be my face.

I want clutterbug to belong to the people and to be something that, you know, 50 years from now, people still know their organizing style, but they have no idea who Cassandra Arson is. I don't know how to get there. What are you doing right now? I'm having a podcast with my friend Airy. Okay, that was my fault. I see what happened there. What are you doing right now towards that goal? So I am working towards a licensing program where I can have clutterbug consultants and they can call themselves clutterbug and they can teach the method and I'm hoping to train some of them to do social media like I do and do makeovers and kind of like be me. But also I'm putting all my eggs in that basket, which is not something that I typically do. I usually have 50 million Easter baskets all of one of like one crappy colored

egg in it. So to put it all into this basket feels scary. And also what if that doesn't work out? And I feel like I need more baskets. What if it doesn't work out? I got no other baskets, Erie. You see, I got, I'm like. So my question is, is so what would you do? How things are right now, you want to brew an honest advice, right? Yeah. Whatever the reason is that that's the strategy you opted to take, it was not just, you strategize that in some way. There's evidence that if you've never done this before, especially,

something big motivated you to put your eggs all in that basket. Yeah. And you have told me throughout the entirety of this podcast, you don't care if you fail. So what's happening here? I think the idea of walking, away and just letting it die is heartbreaking because I see my business is more than just something. It's like a child. It's something I've crafted. And the idea of walking away from it

and it shriveling and dying is so heartbreaking that I know I'll just keep working on it forever. But that isn't what I want either. So dramatic. You want it brutally honest advice, didn't you? You want it brutally honest? Because this, this, you ask for it and you know who you are. So I I don't feel bad about this at all, right? So there's a couple of points to this. First of all, it's not just, I do this thing and this thing works, or I have to leave it alone to die and wither away. You do what you always do.

You do this thing, and it doesn't work if that's the case. And then you try something else because the outcome remains the same. I still want to do this. Those eggs in that basket didn't work. I'm going to move my eggs and try something else because the outcome stays the same. So that's number one. Number two is, have you ever heard of sunk cost fallacy? Yes.

So I'm not saying this because I think it's what you should do, because I agree with you. I agree with you that you've built something incredible here and like getting whatever. But if it was to ever get to the point where it was making you so deeply unhappy and you couldn't figure out how to do that, it's not a good enough reason to stay in it. It's just because it exists. In the long run, I don't think you're anywhere near that yet, but I'm just saying you have to give yourself permission to also realize that life has chapters, especially for someone

like you, you have loads of other stuff going on that deeply lights you up and life is very short. So keep that in mind. but also I don't think that it sounds like you've got a really good strategy in a plan and if it fails you'll get a new strategy in a plan and you have fear of failure and I think that's a bit rich given our conversation. Man. That was good.

Okay. Here's what I'm going to say to you. I love that you're a nomad, but I also think everyone needs a home. And I think your home could even just be your suitcase. I think your environment affects every aspect of your life. And if you're like, well, I just suck at laundry and I'm used to chaos and there's open pizza boxes and dirty things everywhere, whether you know it or not, that's making you feel like absolute garbage about yourself.

I know this because I can even hear the way you're talking. You're like, well, I suck at that. And it's we're not even going to talk. I mean, you were like nervous to come on the podcast in case I asked you about your home kind a situation. So what I would say is like any type of control over environment, I do feel like will help you in every other aspect of your life. And I would love to see like your suitcase be your home. So when you open it, it has like something pinned in the inside, like that you love about yourself or that you're like a nomad traveler or you're even sticking stickers on the

outside for every place that you've gone. And you make a commitment to just having that somewhat in control. I don't think you need a home in a traditional way, but I do, I do think you have to like have something that you own. Yeah. That's your like, that's my, like, rock that holds me, my tether to this world. I love that. I love that. I do actually kind of have that. So first of all, I have packing cubes. So that's a pretty big deal. And second of all, I have a little pocket. I know. I love them. I'm such an advocate. I've been. I've been. trying to get Chris onto vacuum cubes. So anyway, so I love banking cubes. And I have a little pocket that in my suitcase that does have random, random objects from travels in general. But also,

at the moment, we're looking at getting a van because van is a home of wheels. It is. Okay. This makes me so excited. Because like as cool as being a nomad it is, and I only have my context of like being homeless to, you know, for years, I lived in tents and I was homeless and I would bounce around and I was like, I'm free. But there was, I mean, I think we might do it a little bit different. We stay in soup, but not I said it being peaceful around, but I feel like everyone, everyone needs a tether, even if it's a suitcase, even if it's like a memory bin that you carry with you. It sounds like you're already doing that. So I don't have tough love to give you, but I do think, I think that that is more important than people realize. And even if your own home and

you're listening to this podcast right now and like your whole house is disaster and you're like, I can't fix this right away. I do think you can have one thing, one area, one shelf, one drawer, one coffee table that you like fiercely protect as your tether, as your happy place. Yeah, I do like that a lot. I think that's really good advice. I'm going to give that advice to Chris too because she is about to join me on these adventures and we're doing packing at the moment. So I'm going to make sure she does that. I love it. Okay, well, thank you so much.

Let my listeners know because I know you got to go right now. Where they can find you, how they can follow you, and how you can help them. Yeah, so you can find me probably best places on my Instagram, which is annoying because it's the underscore ADHD underscore entrepreneur. I didn't realize I'd be saying it out loud as much when I said it. And in terms of click the link in my bio on my Instagram because we have a couple of things coming up. The first one is we're about to launch a free masterclass.

be awesome called the five pillars of success for ADHD entrepreneurs. And then we also have an ADHD entrepreneur start get if you're looking to get into entrepreneurship or the ADHD Entrepreneurs Accelerator if you're already got business and you're making sales and you're looking to grow up. Awesome. I'm going to put all the links in the show notes. Thank you again. Thank you. And we'll see you next time. You're so welcome. I got to take a second to thank today's sponsor, 1-800 Got Junk. If you have a lot of clutter in your basement or in your garage. All you have to do is call 1-800-Gotjunk and a team will come. You just have to point. Point at things to go. They do all the lifting and they haul it all away. We've talked before about the

fastest way to declare your home is to rent a dumpster. So this is your sign to do that right now. You can book your free in-person estimate today. Visit 1-800-gutjunk.com or call 1-800-6-8-65. Seriously, what are you waiting for? You got to book your free in-person estimate today. Visit 1-800-gotjunk.com or call 1-800-468-65. I feel like talking to Aerie today. She was definitely like toned down from normal. She's got a bit of a potty mouth. As do I. So she was trying to be on her absolute best behavior on my podcast. She's putting on our big girl business pants. But we met at Neurodiversion, the very first event. We went to Austin, Texas, and I was so nervous.

And I felt like I knew I was wearing a mask because whether someone has ADHD or not, almost everyone I meet, I'm too much for them. I'm loud. I'm obnoxious. I'm annoying. I ask way too personal questions. I overshare. I tend to trauma dump because it's any type of uncomfortable silence.

And I will fill it. And when I met Eric, she immediately trauma dumped on me first. She immediately like shared all her backstory and her life story and she was like hand talking up a storm. I thought I was going to get smacked in the face. And I was like, this is my person, someone awkward and hyper and weird and unapologetically themselves. And we just became fast friends. And so having her on the podcast is so awesome. I know she's in business. She's in big girl business mode. And I appreciate that she can switch back and forth from that too.

That's probably something I need to work on. But her advice was so good because even after all these years, I know that I'm still trying to be more neurotypical. I'm still trying to fit in. I'm still trying to mask. I'm still trying to overcome my deficiencies instead of embracing them and having compassion. So that was excellent advice from Ari. Is there something I want to rant about? Yeah.

With that in mind, you know what might be really fun? If we do the oh hell no portion of the podcast, this is where for 60 seconds I just rant about something that absolutely drives me insane basically so I don't have to pay for therapy. I could just rant to you. And today I want to talk about something that it just, it's just, it's. It's the bane of my existence. You ready? It's small talk. How come every time you meet someone, they ask, how are you?

What's new? Let's talk about the weather. Can you believe how cold it is or how hot it is? Listen, I want to talk about black matter. I want to talk about black holes. I want to talk about the Big Bang and what came before it. I want to talk about crazy things like psychopaths. Are they born or are they made?

And can you really tell if somebody's a psychopath just by me? meeting them. Let's talk about serial killers. Let's talk about why men are more serial killers and there's hardly any women's serial killers. Let's talk about the Lindsay Clancy trial and weigh in on our thoughts. Let's have a real freaking debate about that. I don't want to talk about weather, unless we're talking about climate change, then I'm all in. I do not want to talk about useless crap with you. I want to be interested and engaged and I want to talk about real things or make believe things. Like, do we all see the same color blue? Who knows? Maybe you're seeing pink. That's the kind of conversations I want to have. I would love to know in the comments how you did on your five

minute tasks and what they were because sometimes just knowing what takes five minutes or less can be hard. Like, where do you start? And I think this is why timing yourself and making a list is actually pretty important. This is how I started in the beginning. I timed myself making the bed and emptying the dishwasher and putting away a load of laundry. And I was shocked. I was shocked and appalled at how quick it actually was. So if you can make yourself a list, just let's read the comments. Let's share with each other things that take five minutes or less. And what you got done, you are going to help so many people. Let's make a master list, friends. Because when we are feeling lazy and unmotivated, first of all, no shame, only compassion. But second of all, if we have

had a list to go to when we could do the Magic Five, that would be crazy helpful. Thanks so much for tuning in. I promise we're going to put a little pause in the ADHD talk for a while. For those of you who are rolling your eyes and don't want to talk about it anymore, but I hope you learned something from today's podcast. And more than anything, I hope you love yourself a little bit more. Thank you guys so much, and I'll see you next time.