Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - Matt Paxton - Crazy Decluttering Stories | Clutterbug Podcast #165

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Matt Paxton is one of the world's leading decluttering experts, he also happens to be hilarious. In today's podcast, Matt shares his incredible knowledge and expertise, as well as some crazy decluttering stories from his 15 seasons on Hoarders and his new tv show, Legacy List.  Matt is, hands down, my favourite guest I've ever had on the Clutterbug podcast!! You are going to love listening to this podcast! Learn more about Matt and his amazing business here: https://iammattpaxton.com/ Follow Matt on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/iammattpaxton/ Buy Matt's book, "Keep the Memories, Lose the Stuff" here: https://amzn.to/3LC88oR   You can find more Clutterbug content here: Website: http://www.clutterbug.me YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clutterbug TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, welcome back to the Clutterbug podcast. I'm fangirling a little bit. This is an epic moment in Clutterbug podcast history because today's guest is, I'm going to say, the leading downsizing and decluttering expert in the world. He's also the host of two-time Emmy nominated series Legacy with Matt Paxton on PBS. And of course, he was featured on the hit television show Hoarders for 15. seasons. He is the author of best-selling book, Keep the Memories, Lose the Stuff. Welcome, Matt Paxton. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. This is really exciting for me because I've been a fan for so long. And I mean, obviously everyone's a fan of hoarders, but you have a really unique take. But before we get into that, I have so many other questions for you. One being, I see you live in Georgia with your wife and seven children, Matt. Yes, the guy from hoarders is hoarding kids. That's always the joke.

We have seven kids. We're a blended family. So I had three. She had four. But we have them all four times. We have them all full time. And she's a minimalist. And so now we all are.

And so we live in a 2,400 square foot house, which blows people away. That's, whoa. Oh, that's crazy pants. Yeah, my kids, it's a snow day today. I have all three of my kids home, and I'm not handling it well. Yeah, digital days. Yeah. So digital days are the worst. I'll say that, because all the kids just forget everything they learn. And, you know, we use a computer. Yeah. It's a lot. I mean, I'll say this. We minimalism actually helped us on the parenting side because it eliminates all the junk, right? Like all the happy meal toys and all the,

the just stuff you don't need. That being said, it also isolates your parenting. Like, you find out, like, how much you rely on technology and movies and video games, things like that to parent. And when we eliminated that, we didn't really have like an extra six hours a day to parent. And so it took us a while to, like, learn how to parent as minimalist. and what we've learned is boredom is good from the parenting standpoint.

If the kids, I thought my job as a dad was to provide, give a lot of stuff, work really hard, make a lot of money, buy a lot of stuff. And like, I was super miserable. And in that equation, I ended up getting divorced because none of us were happy, right? And so then it's kind of funny, second phase of marriage, like we ended up going the opposite, super minimalist. And what I've learned is when the kids are bored, that's when they get really creative. Like we all did when we were kids, you know, like, someone told me that they were like,

man, you remember your ice cream maker? And I was like a kid I grew up with. And I was like, ice cream. I was like, we would take our big wheel. We'd flip it over. We'd say we were making ice cream, right? And it was just stupid and dumb and funny. And my wife's take. Even play outside. Outside. What happened there? Where did that go? We could also, you know, we could spend a whole half hour on that topic, right? But like, because we didn't make them go outside. That's what happened. Right. We let us. We let us. We let us. We let us. We could, you know, we could spend a them staying in and my wife's always said you give them string yarn and a pair of scissors and they'll make something and and she was right you just have to like ride it out you have to ride the board

you have to ride it up yeah board kids board kids are annoying Matt board kids are annoying but I guess if you get over the initial we we had our power out for a couple of days the first day was a lot of tears it was really sad times but they get used to it they do and then they've got to ride it out I came in the other night and they had somehow pulled out out of the craft supply, a little bin, that no one's been in in two years. They were making like a whole, they were basically recreating their favorite video game people with these little like puffy balls and they got a glue gun and give a kid a glue gun he'll make anything. And it was crazy. And so for like two hours we watched, I was just like, holy cow, look at these kids. I mean, everywhere from 9 to 14, they were all playing with it. It was really cool. So I've learned to kind of to relax into it. But yeah, seven kids is a lot. I have no hobbies at all. I work and hang out my family. And that's it. And that's it for another 10 years. And then they'll be gone, you know. That's so nice. You're so nice. Okay, I have to ask. Well, I was a jerk in my 20s. I'll tell you that. I was a total jerk in my 20s. And I'm making up for it now. Yeah.

I love that. Okay, let's talk about we both have weird jobs. I feel like your job's even weirder than mine. If anyone listening, if they're listening to the podcast, they know I got started because I wasn't a hoarder, but I had a lot of stuff. I was living in extreme clutter. And the show Clean Sweep with Peter Walsh, he's my hero.

That motivated me to get up off the couch and get rid of stuff. So I'm going to blow your mind. I want to know how you got started. Same name, Peter Walsh. I watched it, thought it was great. I started now that, I just thought it was really cool. And I was kind of an organizing weird guy. I was in my 20s and 24, to be exact.

And then my dad, my stepdad, both my grandfathers all passed away. And it's not Peter Walsh's fault. He had nothing to do with that part of it. He'll come in a minute, right? Peter's a good friend now. I bought his book, right? I saw him on Oprah. I bought his book.

I was cleaning out my dad's house after my dad died. And my grandfather had always said to me, if something sucks, do it as a job. He's because other people pay you to do it. And I had just lost my dad, both my grandfather's like, I was a mess, like a mess of a person. But I was cleaning up their houses. And I was like, oh, this does suck. This is what my grandfather was talking about. And so I just started cleaning houses.

And I basically told a lady at my church what I did. and then she told an old lady and another old lady. So I did it for like four years, not on TV. I just did it like around my town in Richmond, Virginia. And I had been writing Peter Walsh because I assumed he got a lot of jobs that he couldn't do. And so I kept writing Peter and never heard from him. And then he got invited to do hoarders, the TV show, and he couldn't do it. And he goes, I can't do it, but there's this crazy guy in Virginia that'll do anything.

and so I got on orders. That's how I got on hoarders because Peter didn't want to do it. That's totally how I got on. And here we are 16 years later. Oh, okay. By the way, don't go write Peter, please. He does not want people to write them. It just he was, this was 16 years.

You know, gosh, this was a long time ago. I had no kids with it. I mean, literally. And so I think about it. I mean, like, thank God he said no. Like my, I mean, I was cleaning. houses for 15 bucks an hour and happy to get it. I mean, happy to get it, you know, because I was still helping people on a daily basis. Like, it was really cool. I think our career is what I tell

everybody, you get a hug and a check. Like, there's not a lot of jobs like that. Like, you get to totally, and I like the really gross. Change a life. Yeah, the change. And then you get to help someone and they give you a huge hug and then they pay your bills. I'm like, this is the best gig in the world. And so I got really into that. And that's what really expanded it. You know, It's the best gig in the world. Nothing fills me up more than when you're done a house and that person just seems lighter, happier. You see hope in their eyes and how you're like, I changed a life. I would do it for nothing. I'm going to tell you the truth. I would do it for absolutely nothing. We practically do in a lot of situations. Most of us that are professionals, it takes 10 years to make money at this because we're afraid to charge for it. We're afraid to ask what we deserve. And, I think people like Peter and Nisi Nash and all those people that had TV shows early on because they kind of created the vision that this is a career. You know, and I get, I get emails every day and people like, I want to do what you do. How do I do it?

And I'm like, man, I just started cleaning old ladies addicts 20 years ago. I mean, that's how I got it. I feel like we both owe a little something to Peter Walsh, the great, the team of organization. Let's be honest. I don't talk. We're not friends. I don't think he knows who I am, but I owe everything to that man. He's nicer than you even expect. Like, he's the nicest. I mean, he's just the, he's any, like, fast forward. I wrote this book. Keep the memories. And I was like, oh, shot in the dark. I'll write him. See if he'll, you know, see if he'll write a blurb. And he immediately right back. We'd love to, man. Happy to do it. Send me the book. And I was like to thank the guy. Like, that's like Michael Jordan showing up to my kid's basketball game because my kid wrote them, you know, like for us, you know, that, I mean, that's an extreme.

I totally feel like that. My husband's like, would you ever want to go to Australia and meet him? I'm like, I would immediately burst into tears and I'd be a blubbering idiot and I wouldn't want to waste his time because he is the king and will always be the king and he wears the crown. No, it was, it's such a, you know, and it's such a small world. What an honor. Yeah, it was. It was really cool.

And he's just become a friend. He's a good guy, man. Really good dude. Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay. Speaking of your book, which keep the memories, lose the stuff. Here's what I'm going to say.

It's actually really freaking amazingly good. Thank you. It is good. I cannot say that a lot about organizing. This is an incredible book about letting go. I was blown away. But you talk about the legacy list. Can we kind of explain that a little bit?

I mean, that's your whole thing. It's kind of my shtick. Yeah. So the legacy list is the name of my show. it's also one of my main tips. And I believe that everybody should have a list of five or six items in their house that really tell their family story. And how this kind of came about was like, or a boot, as I should say, how this came

of boot. You making fun of me? No, I got some Canadian listeners. I think we got to do it. And so as when I was cleaning a long time ago, I was trying to get hoarders. This is when I was only doing hoarders and professionally and on the show. and so I was doing I mean 100 hordes a year like that's all I did and I was always having a hard time getting hoard this is before we understood hoarding like none of us really knew it was going on back then we didn't even understand that it was because of trauma like no one really knew yet and so I would always say like hey I want you to pick five or six items write it on a piece of paper and if your house caught on fire what would you want to get and I was doing that just to prove that they couldn't find it right so they'd be like oh I'll write on the back of the piece of paper I'm like sure and then I would pull out of the a stopwatch, like old school's track team stopwatch. And I would pull it out and say, great,

house is on fire. You got two minutes. What can you find on the list? And I'd be like, go. And it was just to prove, hey, it's a dangerous house. You can't get it. Well, as I got further into my career, I realized it was like, oh, these are the items that like, why do you care about these items? And it would always because of someone above them, right, someone that they loved, a grandma or grandpa. And it took me probably a decade to realize like, oh, we hold on the stuff because of the people that's attached to the stuff, the memory is not the, not the actual stuff. We don't care about wood or, you know, fibers or steel. We care about the people. And so then I just started saying, hey, write your, write your five favorite things in the house down for me. Before I would

clean. And then tell me, just tell me the stories. Because I wanted to get to know these people before I started cleaning. Because I could say, like, if four or five items are about their father, well, then maybe we shouldn't start in their father's room, right? Like, and it was really more for like directional like where I start cleaning in this house but what I found out was I would they would tell me these stories about these great women usually it was using a grandma or a or a mom that kind of like saved the family and kind of ran the family and it turned into what we call now a legacy list and what I later found out much later is the more you tell the stories up front the bigger the better the person the stories the reason we hold on to it the easier it is to clean the house later

And what I mean by that is like if they tell me three stories about their grandfather and then we get to the garage and we've got, you know, all of their grandfather's old tools and all of his old magazines, like it's easier for them to let go because we've already celebrated that person that was big in their life. And so I've really found that the legacy list is about really establishing who matters in your story. And if you're listening right now and you want to create one, literally go out, write the five most important things in your item in your house and then share those stories. What makes them important? Who is that person? I don't care what it's financially worth, because that doesn't matter. It's what it's emotionally worth. And that's really what my TV show is about, the legacy list.

We never talk about financial value. You'll notice there's never been, well, one time a producer snuck a price tag in. I don't care what it's worth because you're not getting rid of it. It's already said it's one of the most important things to you. But I promise you, when you tell those stories, what will happen is it really starts to prioritize what's in your home. And so later when you get to the really monotonous cleaning, it's easy to say, hey, you know what, that whole room can go because I've already, we've already got six items for that guy. We're good. And it just really kind of mistakenly happened over the last five years when I really honed in on downsizing and just kind of like, I actually had to take a break from hoarding just because I wanted to really, really understand my aging clients. And when I got into it, it was all about those memories. And the more you celebrate those memories, the easier, believe it or not, the easier it is to clean your house. I that's so powerful. I love that. I've noticed in my own business so I don't I don't work with hoarders but one more decluttering when everything's all mixed together

if there's an important item in there, the whole pile feels important. It's really hard to tell. It's really hard to even if you're not a hoarder to see the force for the trees if that makes sense. So I started just having like a tote and we're like this is your memory box. So as we're going through, we're going to throw it in a memory box. And it's very little that actually is memories mixed in with the piles. But as soon as you give it a home, as soon as you honor it, that's what this is really about. That's the right word. As soon as you honor it, it's all the other stuff no longer feels important. And you're doing the exact same thing right off the beginning before you even touch anything. You're honoring the important things. And that puts everything else into perspective. This is good, Matt. You're good. I know what I'm doing. I'm doing it 20 years quietly. I mean, like, it's all about those people we love. And look, I'm still talking about my dad.

My dad's been dead 23 years. I mean, this is one of my legacy lists items. This is my dad's ring. I wear it every day. I love it. It's in my book. Someone the other day came up. I was doing a book signing.

And somebody came up and they were like, oh, my God, is that your dad's ring? Can I see it? Like, it's become a symbol for a lot of people because it's such a crazy story. I'll tell it real quick. My dad was in advertising. He was in the 70s, madmen. I mean, my dad died at 52 for a reason. He was a wild man. And he at one point, he was in an advertising, you're rich and you're broke, like all in the same year. Like you just never know, right? And that's what it was like growing up and with a guy in advertising. And my dad was dead broke. My mom and him got divorced. He was living in an apartment. He had no money. He owed my mom money. Just a crazy story.

And he somehow lands Tiffany's catalog. He gets Tiffany's the jeweler to let him make their, they're like 80 something, 1980 something catalog. And he works it out that he and his buddies are going to do this thing in his apartment, right? He sets it all up. He's going to make all this money. He's going to get back to zero. He's a hustler, dude. And I learned from a lot of hustlers.

And he's going to get back to zero. Like, he's finally going to do it. And then he does the whole shoot and he's shooting this ring. And he's like, man, I love that ring. And he goes back to Tiffany's. He's like, how about you guys just give me the ring instead of. paying me. Oh my. No, he didn't. Svore to God. And so my dad got this ring. Everybody was furious at him. So it does, and then when my dad died, the night my dad died, he gave me this ring,

like straight up. Like, like, out of a movie, he like basically said goodbye and he gave me the ring and he died, right? So I love this ring for a lot of reasons. One, it just reminds me my dad. And then two, reminds me to always get paid, right? Like, don't ever trade. Like, always get paid. I got a lot of kids. I got to pay the bills. So there's a ton of things about these legacy of the side. But here's the deal. They have a story, right? They have a story that lives on. And so I love that for me, my legacy of this items help people live on. And to me, that's what's really important. And then what it, what we never knew it would do is it answers that question of, does anybody really want my stuff? Right? Because so many of our clients think nobody wants my stuff. And what we found is they don't want your stuff because they don't know the stories. And if you share those stories, then people start to say, oh, well, actually, I do one. except for the china the basic stuff for the dining room they're like yeah i do nobody wants a dining room guys it's over stop trying to save the brown furniture nobody wants and it's okay they want something else they just don't want that stuff they want other stuff because they have other memories of you

you know and i try to tell families out all the time like it's not that your kids don't want that like let your granddaughter into your closet she's going to find 10 or 12 items that she loves in your vintage clothing she just doesn't want your china but she'd love love your hat. She'd love your fur coat. She'd love a lot of your stuff. And she'll share it and use it more than she would ever use your china. Yeah. Especially if she knows the stories behind it. That's what the stories. You're so right. It's the stories because they know the stories. You know the stories. But do your children know the stories? Are you passing down that legacy? Can I tell? I'm going to tell a million. I got to tell. All I do is tell stories. But this is the one

that prove this point the most. We had this one lady. It was amazing. Gosh, she's so far. Her name is us and we were cleaning her house and we found this picture of her and this like very handsome man and she's like who's that she's like oh it's Armando and I'm with her her adult daughter and her adult granddaughter and the granddaughter goes well that's not grandpa and like how could you have been with a man before grandpa and she goes oh that was Armando my lover and we're like okay like do tell and she goes no she just goes to the next thing we're like no no no no no we want to know about armando come back and the daughter and the granddaughter are like appalled and me and all the crew we're like we got to hear the story tell us about armando she's like well you know i was

an adjunct professor at mit and he was the spanish professor and it was during the war and he was very handsome and she goes in fact he's still very handsome i looked him up on facebook the other day and this lady's 80 something she goes you know that's what facebook is for to find your ex-boyfriends And I was like, true. It still is actually, except we use Instagram. But yes. And so we're like going through the story and I go, wait a minute, you taught at MIT? And she goes, yeah, I was the first female professor at MIT.

That's this picture of Romando is how her granddaughter found out she was the first female professor. She was like, I just thought you were a student. She goes, no, no, I was the first woman hired at MIT. And we were like, holy crap, what a story. that's why you got to tell the stories because we think we know the stories we know like half the stories we don't know the punchlines always and and so now like i mean this it changed this girl's life she tells everybody that her grandma was a friend i mean we all i tell that story once a week right and it's because we stopped and took time to tell that story i love that yeah i learned things

about my grandfather at his funeral that just everyone was sharing stories and i went wow he's incredible Yeah. This is amazing. Why did I not know these stories when he was alive? Like I wish, yeah, we got to share. We have to share and talk about those. And I've had the experience to, I really believe everybody's incredible, man. Like I believe, I mean, I believe I could shoot Legacy List in any house in the country. I really do because everybody's got a fascinating story. And you just got to tell it. And so with the Legacy List, I really encourage families like, do it on Zoom. Nick, we're doing Zoom right now. Like, you can get the family on. online and you can do a grandma show and tell like pretty much hold something up tell us what it is but the key is you got to hit record because then you have it in time right and people can tell those stories later after you're gone even which is kind of cool oh it's good so good you're so good okay I do want to ask you about something so yes clients that have trouble letting go is your special literally your specialty and you have a list on your website top 100 items and where to donate them sell or dispose, which I did not know you had.

And now I'm going to go to this constantly because I hear this all the time. And the list is incredible. But I think the reason you put the list together is what really interests me. Because working with clients have worked with thousands of people to help declutter. There's a bit of perfectionism isn't there? There's a little bit of like control, anxiety, which is very odd when you think of a hoarder. You think of that's the anti-perfection, but there is. There's that perfectionism mindset. So this is going to blow most people's line. Hoarder was originally a subset of OCD. That's how it was

actually classified, like medically, before we understood the trauma and things that caused it. But it still behaves like OCD. A lot of our hoarders say, well, if I can't do it perfectly, then I won't do it at all. So it behaves a lot like anorexia, believe it or not. it behaves a lot like for me fitness like well if i'm not i used to run marathons if i'm not gonna if i can't place in a marathon well then i ain't running all or nothing all or nothing and so you get a lot of you know a lot of people that behave in very similar fashions we all have i mean i tell everybody we're all like hoarders we just some two or three things changed right that made our life different and we have coping mechanisms that they don't have like they're not bored with them

but most of your hoarders are incredibly intelligent they're incredibly giving much Most of the stuff they're hoarding is to give away to other people. It's not actually for themselves because they want to get that happiness and self-worth by sharing, believe it or not. But yeah, if they can't do it perfectly. I mean, we used to find, I mean, this, I can't tell how many times this happens when you clean a hoarded house. And if there's any professional organizers here, you're going to realize you found this too. At the bottom of the hoard, you actually find pictures of their house when it was in good condition. They were so proud of how their house looked, they would take pictures of it.

I don't have any pictures of my house. I never take them. Yeah. Yeah. That's so. But hoarders do. And then they can't do it right so they wait. But the difference is they believe they're going to get it back to that thing.

Just like I believe I'm going to get back to my running shape. That's why I still have a pair of 28-sized jeans in my closet. That's what I'm going to say. I'm a 36, by the way, folks. A tight, a very snug 36. But in my brain, I'm going to run again. and I'm going to be really good again. It's this idealized version.

We're all alike. Yep, we're all alike. We're all alike. It's just different things. And I see this with clients over and over, and I know I do this myself. And there's an extreme situation, obviously, when you get into hoarding. But it's so funny because you'll have all these old blankets you never use and some are ripped and stained. And I will say, well, why don't we just get it? Let's let them go.

Let's put them in the trash or donate them. And it's, no, I'm going to take them to the animal shelter to make sure those go for dogs. and I'm going to make sure I'm taking those to this center and this to this. And as a professional, I'm like, just put it in the trash. But it does ease anxiety because as soon as I say to them, okay, I'm going to pack these up and drop them off at the Humane Society for the dogs, okay, fine, they can go. Isn't that straight? Like, they can't let it go unless they know it's going to a good home or it makes them feel good. So they're caring people.

By the way, top three careers for hoarders are nurses, social workers, and teachers. Really? All three caregivers. And people now are realizing, is they're listening, they're like, oh, my God, yeah, everything my mom held was for me. And I never took it, right? And we never want it because it's gross. It's nasty. We don't want it.

But they're trying to give it away to someone they care about. And so donation is my number one tool for hoarding now. And it took me compassion probably is number one. And then, like, understand that they're in a place that they can't help. it's not a choice. But number two is donation. Like that's the best way to get rid. If you try to sell it, then we start arguing about money.

Right. And we've already decided we didn't want it. Like, I'm going to keep coming back. That is the thing I say a million times in my book. You've already decided you didn't want it. Money only confuses that decision. And so I'm really focused on, hey, if you want to get rid of it, donate it. Because if you give it to someone else, it's going to mean more to you than the money.

You'll never be happy with the amount of money you receive for an item in your home. you will always be happy knowing that you made someone else's life better. That's good. You're such a good person. I'm trying, as a mom who's overwhelmed and I have so many listeners and followers who are overwhelmed, I also want people to stand up and say, like, it really comes down to your own self-worth too. And it's okay to sometimes just put it in the trash.

And I know this is so hard. It's so hard, but it's all. also so empowering. So you start with actual trash. I feel like to kind of get that ball ruling. But when like when do you know, I'm asking you as a professional so I know when my clients, because you are the expert here, when do I know who to push and who to just say, well, let's let's donate it to the right cause so you feel good? When do I give in to their need for control and perfectionism? And when do I do a little bit of tough love so they see that It's not, it doesn't feel good, but it's not that bad.

And at the end of the day, I'm better off without it. I test with an item that doesn't matter for that exact reason, because I don't always know. And by this point, a lot of times I do know. And I'll know within 10 minutes. But like, even when I'm doing an estimate, I'll test an item. I'll be like, hey, you've got 45 of these Starbucks plastic cups. Can I donate one, please? No.

I go, oh, well, actually, I needed one for me. may I have one? Yeah, sure. Yeah. So here we go. What have I done there, right? I've tested, will they give it to the goodwill of all? Nope, not interested. But will they give it to me to help me, someone they know? Yep. Okay. So now I've already zeroed in on where am I donating. I'm donating to causes that they can touch with their own hands, right? So then I'm not going to focus on goodwill. I'm actually going to focus on like, believe it or not, I'm going to focus on like an abuse center for women, going to focus also I also try to like figure out what the what their trigger's been if I know that this person's been abused well then I'm going to focus my charity that are benefiting females and

single moms because I know they were both the single mom and that's why they're holding on to stuff because they didn't have stuff when they were going through that so I try to match the donation to what their trigger has been and I know this sounds a little complicated but for professionals I mean I am goodwill national spokesperson for donation right so I I love Goodwill. But even at Goodwill, we would rather you donate to something that matches your mission than just give it to us and not be happy about it. For me, I like that they give a lot of people second chances.

Goodwill gives a lot of people jobs. And that's why I work with them. Not everybody's okay with that. They've got another cause. Great. But if the cause matches for you, and it makes you happy, you will donate more. And so back to what I did was I want to test that donation early on something that does. And then sometimes I'll push it a little harder to be like, well, how about this side?

Can I give away these jeans? And they're like, I don't know. Well, I'll tend to keep donations to the end of the day. Like, I'll create a maybe pile and then we'll decide what we're donating at the end, like, the last two hours of the day. And then what I'll do is I actually keep the stuff they agreed to donate. I don't deliver it that night. I wait until the next morning because I want to see what they freaked out about.

Oh my God, especially on the phone day one. Like a lot of times, I'm like, oh, my God, I shouldn't have donated that. Ah, can you call them back? Can you get them? I'm like, actually it's still in the truck. What do you need? And I'll pull a couple items out. out because I want to see where they're at.

And then they realize, oh, I can trust this guy as well. Right. But then you got to stay committed. I mean, I did it the wrong way for 20 years, right? Like, that's how you find out to do it the right way. You do it the wrong way three or four or five times. And then you're like, man, this person like, I had a lady throw a bag of dead cats at me one time. Like literally, like I'm not exaggerating.

She threw a bag of dead cats at me. So I have done it the wrong way many times. at 20 years, I now know what works, right? But at the end of the day, you got to include them in it. You've got to include it. They're in charge. It's their stuff. It's about control.

They've lost control. And I'm saying this for everybody, not just our hoarders. If you've just got a single mom at home that, you know, by the way, divorce is one of the major reasons for hoarding. Divorce is one of the major reasons we have a hard time of letting go with stuff, like just in a regular house. Like single mom, I'm cleaning her house out. And she's like, no, that's my husband's stuff. I thought you hated your husband. I do.

why can't I donate his stuff? I don't know, but don't do it, right? And it's totally illogical, right? Yeah, anytime there's like a loss, right? It's a loss. Fire, any, any loss, anything, something's been taken from you, you don't want anything to go. So I try to find out, okay, what mission does she care about? What does she care about?

What makes her happy? And then I'll try to donate it that way. Oftentimes it's other women that are, you know, like, I mean, we get a lot of refugee groups that, like, they literally have, or their house burned down, they got nothing. I mean, like, hey, if you donate this entire. room, then this woman up the street is now going to have a house that she and her kids can live in. And sometimes I'll even call the church and be like, hey, this lady's down, but we want to deliver it and she wants to meet the family. Can we do that? And a lot of people would think that's weird. If it allows us to let go, great. If it lets you let go. But there's something you just

said really, and I'm jumping all over the place on purpose, but like what I really love what you said was like, what if we just throw it all away? If it gets you your life back and your time to give to your family and to yourself, right? Let's say worst case scenario. I'd say, hey, I'm going to throw everything away in this garage. I know it's all, I know it's all expired. I know it. I can't donate it.

It's gross. It's bad. And they're having a really hard time. And I'd just say, hey, look, if this is going to give you three days to yourself where you can relax, which will then allow you to be a better partner and a better husband or better wife and a better friend, then it's worth it. Right? And I start to really, this last five years of my career, I really,

started to put value on our time because time is so valuable and so i i don't say don't tell me what the item is worth tell me what your time is worth right and so like for so many of my clients i'm like mess had this in an interview the other day i don't know if it's going to air or not working with some seniors and i'm she goes what's the best advice you want to give to someone who's like 80 going through their house and i'm like stop going to your house you're 80 did you really work 60 years to go through a bunch of old eight tracks like seriously like and i and i said this and people are going to get mad i'm saying i said hey man like you should be wondering out how you're going to die having sex like at 80 like you should die the best way possible that's where you that's what you worked 65 years for

not to go through stupid national geographics right like we're we're so messed up on stuff like life is about i'm getting preachy i'm getting preachy but like life is about living let's live man. Like don't waste your time on that stuff. And people, I mean, when I say that people laugh, I'm like, well, that's the best way to go. Do you really seriously want to die in your garage, cleaning it out? No, come on. Exactly. You just had sometimes I think have to put it in perspective for people because we think we have to sort. We have to take one pile and make lots of piles. And then we're overwhelmed by the piles. And then it becomes all one big pile again, where it's really just get it out of your house because you are more important. I used to take. I, I was,

would say yes say that again that's exactly right i mean yeah you're more important than your stuff and the time with your family is more important i i've now limited i believe you can do anything in a lot of time given kind of like your term paper in college right if you give me a semester to write the paper i'm going to write a paper if you give me one night to write the paper i'm going to write the paper and you can guess what i chose to do in college i wrote it on the last night right and i turned it i stayed up all night turned it in that morning and it was still a decent paper right i think organizes kind of the same way. Like I've learned over my, I used to, however long it takes, I'll be patient, I'll be careful to it. Now I just say, hey, man, I got eight hours for you. Like, I got eight hours for you.

What are we, what's your most important thing for us to tackle? And then I say, I mean, so I limit my time versus them having unlimited time. And so I don't say, hey, like, what's your budget? I say, hey, I got eight hours. What can I do for you? And we try to find the most important part. And I've found we can make more progress when I limit my availability versus figuring out their budget and how much time they have. Well, you'll take as much time as you have. You'll take, yes. Once you start donating and you start sharing your stories, I promise you.

Actually, reverse order. Share the stories, then start donating. You're gonna, you're gonna get addicted to both actually. And then all of a sudden, it's totally addicting. And then your house starts clearing out, believe it or not. And you, and you, and you're closer to your family because you've been sharing all these stories. It's pretty cool. Yeah, it's something that I found really helped a lot of my

clients who because I'm just like you're nice you're like all these different places you can take your crap I'm like I'm going to goodwill but here's the thing some people can shop at Nordstrom's some people can shop at Walmart and some people can shop at goodwill and this is amazing stuff that you have in your home that you're not using and imagine the single mom who's walking through that aisle at goodwill and is finding that for that price you've made their day you are helping and you're helping Goodwill change lives. Like by donating to Goodwill, it's one stop. Take everything there. You are changing so many lives. And I think we have to look at donating like that. We have to realize it isn't just going to some business that's going to make money off your stuff, which is the perception that people have. Look at the consumer who's getting that for a bargain. And then look at that charity that's changing lives with the money. By the way, and again, I represent goodwill. They do make a lot of money off your stuff. And guess what? For every item you donate, three people get a job. And those are not just jobs in the retail stores. They train CDL drivers.

They train nurses. They train home caregivers. Like they train a lot of people. And I just can't stress. And then they have a whole layer of social workers that are there to manage those people and help them get their lives back on track. That's what the money is going to. Like I cannot stress this enough. They are doing really amazing things. And a lot of single moms get jobs. They have, I mean, some of the Goodwill's have daycare centers for these women to be able to go and get training and then get a job. That's what you're donating for. So again, find a mission that you dig, any mission, if you dig it, but I promise you you'll get more and more excited about it.

And your house will start to clear out. It just will. And your house will start to clear out. Okay. So I recently went to, I'm working with a client right now. And I walked into her home and it looks really tidy. She's lived there for three months. And then I went into her spare bedroom and I kid you not to the ceiling packed.

And then her whole basement packed with furniture and extra beds and so much stuff. And she, I was like, why so much furniture? Lovely lady. She had moved into the house and the family who was there, the mother had passed. and they had just not cleared out the house. And instead of her clearing out the house with the moving companies, she said, I'm going to make decisions on it. Maybe I'll keep some of her furniture.

Maybe not. But I'll think about it later and put it in a room where it had stayed for three months and shoved it in the basement where it stayed for three months. And you talk about when moving how important it is to visit the space and take what's going to fit. And this is so critical. We only have the size house we have. we have. We have. Yep.

No amount of shelving and storage and bins and baskets are going to create more space. We have what we have. Why is this so hard? Why do we think magically we're going to, our house is going to double in size while we're sleeping? And what was this woman thinking and this family thinking of like, was she over 55? Yes. Yeah. So there's a guilt level over 55. And I, And I don't know, but guilt is a big part of downsizing. 55 and older, we feel guilty that we have to hold on to things from people that are dead. They're going to come back and really be upset with us. And I can't, I mean, like, with my own family, my mom would be, when I moved here to Atlanta,

my mom's like, I'm married a minimalist, so I had to get rid of 75% of my stuff. And my mom was like, well, what is your grandfather going to think? I'm like, dude, he's been dead 25 years. I think he's okay with it. And by the way, I've done a lot of things you don't know about that he's going to be more upset about than the fact that I'm throwing away some of his furniture. And so there's a heavy guilt on that.

And there's also a heavy guilt over 55 that we need to do it ourselves and that we don't hire professionals to help us. Under 55, we got no problem. And I'll dissect this for you. It's the oldest adult daughter. That is who is managed. That's who's left to deal with this stuff,

like generationally for the last 100 years, right? And 80 years ago, the oldest adult daughter was a stay-at-home mom. Well, now the oldest adult daughter is a CEO, a doctor, a lawyer. She runs a YouTube channel. She's still a full-time mom. She's still a full-time partner. She's, and now she's dealing with her grandparents' stuff, her mom's stuff, her stuff, and her adult daughter stuff.

So that woman has no problem hiring a professional to get help. but the over 55-year-old, especially the 75-year-old, and like my mom's 75, and she's still dealing with her mom and me, right? My mom, when she moved to senior living, she did not want to hire me to help her move. She goes, well, who am I going to get to help?

I go, well, mom, I know a guy. She goes, no, no, like a real person, like not something on TV. She goes, yeah, I had literally just written my book, right? And she's in the daggone book, and I'm like, Mom, I'm one of the better guys in the country. She's like, oh, but you're just on TV. Is there a professional?

I'm like, oh, good Lord, mom. But there's an obligation, obligation to do it yourself. And so that guilt is heavy, heavy, heavy. And the older you are, the heavier the guilt is. But I'm here to tell you, if you happen to you over 55, I promise you, you're dead relatives, don't care. They want you to enjoy your life. Give it to someone that will care about it.

Give the item. By the way, it's usually like a wooden furniture, like a wooden couch in a room that we don't even like go into it. It might be covered in plastic. Like, that's how ridiculous it is. Right. In the dining room, by the way, houses don't even have dining rooms anymore for a reason because we don't spend time. Nobody wants your oak table. Nobody wants your buffet. But the reason the guilt is there is remember that 55 to 75 year woman, that's where her family bonds were created in the dining room on Sunday afternoon. For your children and grandchildren, it's at the beach house. It's at the ski lodge. It's at other places we're going. And we still have family love and we have family time. It's just an additional.

different location. So I don't want people to think they don't want their stuff. They want different stuff because that family bond was created in a different place. And that's why we have all these generational differences on items. We're all talking about the same stuff. Love. We love the people before us. And we want to honor it. You said the word. I'm stealing your word. We want to honor those people. We just all have to understand that we honor in different places, in different items. And if you share the stories, we'll figure that out. And I think, Sometimes it also gets confused. Like this, this family, that wasn't even their stuff or their mother's stuff.

It was other people's stuff. But you're right. I think she had said to me, well, I feel bad just getting rid of all this stuff. She feels an obligation. Yeah. I feel bad. She's people pleasing a stranger. A dead stranger.

She's people, you want to talk? Are you a professional people pleaser? You're people pleasing a dead stranger. That is professional level people pleasing. That you've never. ever even met because that's. And you won't because they're dead. That's why I keep saying this, folks.

Like, it's so ridiculous. Someone is now in their car listening to this laughing because they're doing this, right? Or my, my, the one that gets me the most is when I'm dealing with a lady that has got her ex-husbands, family pictures and ex-husband's China. Like, when did you guys break up? Uh, 83. How's he doing? Oh, he's been dead. What about his parents?

Oh, there's no one left in this. They're all dead. and you're holding on to their stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I think you can let go of it, man. Like, it's so ridiculous. And you don't even like him if he was alive.

No, you would hate him if he was alive. But yet we still hold onto the stuff. Yeah. It's just hilarious and it happens. Yeah. We all do it. And we hold up to our kids stuff. Our kids leave.

They're like, I don't want any of that junk. And yet we hold on to it in case they change their mind. So I do struggle with this one. Do you? I do. Yeah, I do. So some people, so the under 25, they will say, I don't want any of it. And then sometimes they do.

Now, it doesn't mean they want it all. What I say is hold on to two items for your grandkids or excuse me, two items for your adult kids. And then I actually say hold on to two more items for the kids that grandkids that don't exist yet. And that's usually like jewelry. I actually do this thing. I love this.

It's basically it's a poor man's time capsule. I'd say get a gallon Ziploc bag, right? Put a couple pictures, put some jewelry, put any little knickknacks, but it all has to fit in a gallon Ziploc bag. That's good, you're putting a limit. And you write the stories on a piece of paper, put it in there.

And I even say make this for kids that don't even, grandkids that don't exist yet. I know that sounds crazy. Assume everyone's gonna have two kids, right? And make those and then put them in a box. And then some year down the road, it's gonna be one letter box, right? Some year down the road,

you're gonna give these away at Christmas or Hanuk or whatever. And I've seen families started to do that and they're like, I'm so glad I did that. But by the way, I got you to put all those stories in a bag, limited space, you put it in a one box, and then you let the rest of the house go. You still shared the stories. And it's easier to let the rest go. Because you're excited. Yeah. Yeah. And you're anticipating, giving this away. I'm the hero. This is going to be amazing. It's wonderful. A lot of manipulation going on in my techniques on purpose. It's positive

the manipulation, stand behind it, it works, it makes people happy, but you're still getting rid of 95 to 99% of your stuff. And that's the goal. I really love that. Yeah, it's prioritizing the things that matter, right? It's giving a home. When my son was born, my mother-in-law brought over seven oversized totes filled with baby clothes from my husband when he was a baby. And I was so burdened. as a new, I was burdened by all the crap. If she had a cultivated collection of a few things, it would have been the greatest gift. You have the opportunity listening. Yeah.

And I knew the stories. You listening have the opportunity to cultivate a collection, to cultivate a story and a legacy, but make sure that it's an amount of things that isn't going to burden your loved ones. Well, without the stories, it's trash. all you're doing is transporting trash to me that your future grandkids are going to throw away after we all die. Like straight up, and I'm being really blunt here. But if you cultivate it and you make it doable

and you write the stories down, manageable, now you've passed down really some generational stories. And that's the obligation, right? And some of you, by the way, are the only ones in your family that still have these stories. So I really, really want you to write them down or record them or do something. I mean, but get the stories,

down and get them told. And honestly, after like 10 items max, that's legacy list shouldn't be more than 10 items for me. Make that, I mean, I do a whole family's, I do an entire family's 200 generation in an hour, 200 year generation in an hour. So can we wrap your families up in 30 minutes? Probably so. All right, but it's five or six items. And I promise you it'll create it. And then the one thing you talked about perfection. That's an American thing. it doesn't have to be perfect. Stories create more stories. So just start with what you know.

I remember what it smelled like that day. I remember what my feet sounded like walking on the floor. I remember the weather was like. I remember what it smelled like, whatever. Just start with one memory. And something you don't even remember will come back to you because now, oh my God, I remember this. I remember this. I remember this.

And that's how you get started. So just start telling what you remember. The rest of it will come to fruition. This is so good. I want to call my grandma right. Then we've done well. Call your mom. When you're done to listen to this, call your mom.

Tell your friend to listen to this podcast again. And then call your mom. Matt, okay, so good. Okay, before I let you go, you have four seasons of the legacy list with Matt Paxton on PBS. How can we watch it? Just go to PBS. Yeah, go to pbs.m.org. go to your you go to any stream you know any tv now online just type in legacy you can even go to

my legacy list.com our website you can watch all four seasons they're on there right now for free just check it out tell someone I promise you it is a nice slow positive show it'll make you feel good it'll make you want to start telling your own stories and you were nominated for two emmies I'm very jealous that will never happen for me despite being on my listen when you win Matt please take a picture because I have this on my vision board that will never happen for me now because my show's over very sad but please take a picture and send it to me just rub it in my face Matt I want that picture of you remember we got we got canceled three times on hoarders so don't give up man I mean every net 37 networks can't said no to legacy list every network on cable said no and yeah one channel wanted to know if there were attracted granddaughters that would fight over the stuff That was the only note we got back from cable. Swear to God. You worked in, you know, you know, you know what's up.

Yeah. You know, that's the one. They were like, we love the show, but not with you. And are there attractive granddaughters that will fight? Who will wrestle like in mud over photos? I'm sure there is, but that's not the show. Was it Spike? Just about. It's Bravo.

Yeah. Oh, bravo. No different. It's bravo. It's spike for women. Bravo. Right. And I was just like, this is ridiculous.

I was like, and I gave up on it. And then a friend said, have you tried public television? I was like, I don't know. And I think the Emmy nominations, although we'll never win. We'll never win. That's not true. Don't say that. Well, this year we were up against Marie Kondo, Joanna Gaines, and Oprah.

So I was like, that's a tough, that's a tough field, man. You were nominated. I was nominated. That's the most, I mean, I'm. I mean, my wife and I got to go to L.A. and go to the Emmys. Like, it was super cool. I mean, it was awesome. Yeah, but I don't expect to win.

Thank you. I just am happy to like, you know, I mean, people, when people's topic on the street and they tell you a story, like, oh, my God, I love this. I love this. I mean, I had a, I was at Roots Tech this last week, the genealogy national trade show. And all these old women come up, start hugging me. I love your show. It made me call my sister and we're talking again. And you're like, oh, my God, this is so cool.

you know like it really that's the cool part and uh and i get to look i have seven kids and i can feed all my kids with this so i'm pretty lucky you know like at the end of the day like i don't really feel like it's a job i mean i just get to do you know what you're great at what you do you're incredible at what you do and you deserve all your success and and more before i let you go listen oh also keep the memories lose the stuff if you're listening get that book because it's incredible just seriously i'm telling I don't say, you know, if you're listening that I don't say this about a lot of books. Get that book. It's incredible.

But I have to just ask what the craziest thing you've come across in a house is because I decluttered a house once and found penis masks like full. It was a penis head that you wear and it's got like slits for eyes. And they, it just in their coat closet. And I was like, can these go like in Halloween? But it's just like, no, we just wear them. We like to wear them whenever time we feel like wearing them. And I was like, that's, uh, that's the.

That is the weirdest. Did they say that's a hard now? Did they say? Yeah, they say that's a hard now. This is staying. And I was like, okay. But I found that very odd. But what I, the bank of dead cats is.

I mean, man, I've cleaned, I've cleaned 300 cats out of a house. We had 10,000 rats. We had. Oh, my God. I mean, you know, there's a lot of crazy. But like this year, I found a piece of Apollo 11 in the, the house like an actual piece of Apollo 11. I've found a 44 star flag, um, a legacy of this this year. I'll go with the most emotional. I mean, I could tell you crazy stuff. I found two million dollars

in cash. Like, I mean, you name it. I've found it. Money doesn't get exciting. You have the coolest job, Matt. We found, we found, we found $15,000 in quarters, dimes, and nickels. That was crazy. Um, but the most emotional one for me, the, the most incredible one was, um, actually, found one of my dad's paintings, believe it or not. This was, I mean, this isn't the one I was going to tell, but one year I was cleaning out a house. My dad was a pretty well-known artist as well, and he was all about exclusivity. He would do these wood, like woodblock, like posters. So he would carve a woodblock. He would print them like a t-shirt. He'd make a hundred, and then he would throw a party, and he would burn the woodblock. And he'd be like, I got a hundred of these

prints. Who wants them? Right? And he would sell them. This was in the 70s. And there was one I never got, and I was filming a pilot for Legacy List, actually, and I walked into this house randomly. I'd not even been in the house. I was just trying to film something. And I'm like, that's one of my dad's paintings. And I was like, holy crap, man. And it was like, okay, God, I hear you.

Like, thanks, Dad. Like, I should keep going down. I'd just been denied by 37 networks. And we're filming a pilot, trying to get PBS to take the show. And I end up finding one of my dad's paintings in the house. And you know, there's a lot of, like, nudges from the world when you do this kind of job. And I try not to get, it's more spiritual than faith, but take whatever you want with it. For me, it was like telling me I was going down the right road.

And but in our line of business, you can't buy that stuff from the client that's unethical. So I had to go to auction. So I had to like outbid some other guy in my town for my dad's painting from the auction house that I owned. Right. But I couldn't actually, I couldn't, unethically, I couldn't say anything. But when the guy came to pick it up, I got outbid. and when he came to pick it up, he realized who I was. And he's like, oh, are you trying to?

I was like, dude, it's the one I don't have. And he was like, just pay me what. You know, he's like, just, you know, he's like, pay me what. Oh, my gosh. That was really nice. So that's, so I have that. But like, I don't know, the gross. I'll say the 10,000 rats was probably the craziest thing I ever found.

Like this guy was, he was a fascinating dude. And he goes, I like to get really high and lay down on the ground and let the rats run all over me. And I was like, I'll take your word for it, dude. And he's like, no, you got to try it. And I was like, I don't know, man. And then by like the seventh day, I'm like, all right, let's do it, dude. Let's see what happens. And I got to tell you, feeling 10,000 little 20,000 little feet run all over your body,

that's one of the craziest things I've ever experienced. It was, like I said, I got a crazy job. But like that, and I was like, when did you know you had too much stuff? And he's like, oh, I can tell you what a rat's tongue feels like on your eyes. eyeball. He goes, because it licked my eyeball. He goes, I passed out and it woke me up by licking my eyeball. And I was like, that's the grossest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Yeah. And he was just really, he was really. So crazy people, but fascinating people, good people, none the like. And I'm, I'm making you laugh because this is, this is the most important thing.

Guys, if you don't laugh in decluttering, it'll wear you out, man. It's a real serious stuff. So you got to, you got to laugh. And so that's why when you tell the stories, like, keep tell them, man, make the people laugh, make them cry. Like, if you cried and laughed, then you did a good job. But there's no space for anger and negativity. This is a celebration. We're talking about the past people we love. And so I do a lot of humor and I love it. And it's the best gig in the world. You were by far the coolest person I've ever spoken to. So thank you. This is such an honor. Honestly, I hope everyone listening. I know everyone listening. I know everyone listening. is now your mega fan. You're brilliant and you're kind and you're hilarious and you're real

and you're changing lives. And I'm just, the world is better for having you in it. So thank you, Mr. Paxton. But remember, we started this. We both loved Peter Walsh. So someone's listening to us saying they love us and guess what? In 10 years, you guys will have your own podcast talking about us. And if you got inspired about this and you get excited, go do this for a career. There's a lot of people out there than need help. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. You're amazing. Thank you again. And thank you so much. Everyone listening. And we'll see you guys next time.