Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - She Came Home from the Hospital to a House of Clutter (then one question changed her life!) | Clutterbug Episode #343

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

Ever wonder why you can declutter your house and it just... comes back? In this episode, I sit down with Katy Joy Wells — author, decluttering expert, and host of The Maximized Minimalist podcast �� to talk about the emotional root of clutter and why most decluttering advice only scratches the surface. Katy opens up about the accident that changed everything for her — a head-on collision that left her not knowing if her husband would survive, and coming home that same day to face the clutter she'd been avoiding for years. It's an honest, emotional conversation, and it completely reframes what decluttering is actually about. We get into: ✨ Katy's "clutter onion" — the four layers of clutter (superficial, scarcity, sentimental, and identity) and why the deepest layer is almost never about the stuff ✨ Why some of us can declutter one room like a pro and freeze completely in another ✨ My own identity clutter — the home decor I couldn't let go of, and the "someday I'll be different" stuff I held onto for years ✨ How to write your own personal definition of clutter so you stop needing outside permission to let something go ✨ A 10-minute challenge you can do today to start cutting through the clutter that's actually about something deeper If you've ever felt like you're the only one who can't seem to keep it together, this conversation is a reminder that clutter isn't a character flaw — it's usually just an unanswered question. Grab Katy's new book wherever books are sold, follow her on Instagram @katiejoywells, and check out her podcast The Maximized Minimalist — you'll find me over there as a recent guest! Want to get organized? Learn 6-Step The Clutterbug Method: https://clutterbug.thinkific.com/courses/Clutterbug-Method You can find more Clutterbug content here: Main YouTube Channel: @Clutterbug Website: http://www.clutterbug.me TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/ #clutterbug #podcast #KatyJoyWells #decluttering #declutteringtips #melrobbinspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've been on a journey recently to make my home feel not just clutter-free, but more like my home, a reflection of me. I want my home to be my entire family's happy place. So today's podcast is so fitting because we are literally interviewing the incredible Katie Wells. I'm going to be really honest about Katie, and this is probably my own insecurity, but when I first found her on Instagram. She was talking about decluttering and minimalism. My first thought was, she looks like a supermodel. Okay, she does. She looks like someone just born of privilege, who came out of the womb, gorgeous. She has an incredible home. And it felt like, I felt a little judgy of her. Like, yeah, it's easy for you because you had a silver spoon

in your mouth. I don't know. All of this is just probably my own insecurity manifesting as jealousy and judgment. But the reality is, Katie, while, yes, she's gorgeous and looks like a supermodel, is actually so kind and down to earth. And she's humble. And she also, like, is vulnerable and admits her suckage. And that is something that is so rare to find in an influencer. In a world where everyone's just showing off how great they are, Katie's showing up and saying, like, I'm not great, but I'm trying to be better. And here's how I'm doing it. And that resonates with me in a way that is something I don't find in very many other people. So yes, you're going to watch her. You're going to look at her. You're maybe thinking the same thing. She's way too

beautiful to know what she's talking about. Ignore that because not only is she gorgeous, she's also an incredibly real, helpful, vulnerable, just amazing woman. But before we jump into this incredible interview, I really want you to take action on your own home. I think this is the perfect time you're going to learn and make progress. And what I'd like you to do in celebration of Katie and her brand new book, Making Home Your Happy Place, I want you to think about a space in your home that's either messy or cluttered and that you make excuses for. Maybe you're making excuses because it's your children's toys

or you're making excuses that you just don't have time or you don't know where, you need more money before you actually tackle this space. The first space that popped into your head, that's where I want you to go today. And you're not going to transform this entire thing. but you are going to make it better. Grab a trash bag. Let's find obvious trash that can go. Easy donations.

Even if you find five things, it's better than before you started listening to this podcast. And I know while listening, you're going to be so inspired. You're going to be energized. You're going to want to let things go because Katie's going to talk about the four different types of clutter. She's going to share her own powerful journey. And she's also going to give you real life tips. that will help you find the courage to put that stuff in the bag. Are you ready?

Let's meet Katie Wells. Hello, and welcome to the Clarebug podcast. I'm so excited to have you back. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. Congratulations on your new book. This is exciting. Well, thank you.

Yeah, it's been just an incredible process. And I'm just so excited to be back on your show with your audience, whom I just love dearly. I just, when people just get you, you know, and it's just the room and the vibe is good, everyone's riding high. We're feeling good. We're simplifying. We're declutter.

We're organizing. So I'm always so just thrilled to be here and bring this book to a lot of people across the world. I'm thrilled to have you here. And my listeners right now, they're working. They're decluttering. And you are going to be inspiring them with your words of wisdom. I read, like, I just want to say the first chapter of your book was so, emotional. And I think maybe, well, I want you to share about it, this being like the catalyst. And I don't

want to say it was your worst day because you may have had other days. But what a terrible day. But it also really led to such a beautiful transformation for you and everyone that you're helping. So if you could share with my listeners that story, is that giving too much in your book? No. Oh, good. Not at all. Yeah, most people don't expect a book on decluttering to start the way minded, but I just felt it was compelling because I think, number one, a big part of my premise, and I know you go into this on your side of things, which is why we get along so great, is that decluttering isn't just stuff. There are so many emotions tied to it. You know, we all have this relationship with stuff,

and it's often just this invisible thread that we need to, we all need a little support, bringing more awareness to so that we can get to the root of our clutter. But also, you know, I think a lot of us find decluttering to be an easy can to kick down the road. I'll get to it when. I'll get to it when I have a free weekend, when I quit my job, when I retire, when my kids go off to university and I have all the free time in the world. And for some, you know, for me, it was just it took my rock bottom of my rock bottom in order to make a change. And I put it there just to be encouraging in the sense that there is no perfect time to declutter. And if I could do it at my rock bottom, anyone can do it.

And just for a little context that you hinted at, my family and I, so it was my two young children, one and almost three years old. And husband and I were taken a weekend away. This is pre-decluttering Katie. This was the Katie that I didn't have time. I was working full time. Decluttering was hard for me. None of the checklist works, yada, yada, yada.

A lot of us have experienced this. And I just remember leaving my cluttered home, just getting in the car this morning, Cass, and I was like, I can take a deep breath. I can, like, leave the mental load, the checklist, all the crap I have to do and the decluttering and organizing. I can put on the back burner. And I can take a deep breath and just get in this car and go hang out with the fam. It was like what I looked forward to every week was the weekend.

And just a few minutes after we left our house, we were head on in a car accident. And I spent the next rest of the day, really six to eight hours, not knowing if my husband would survive. They had to pull them out with the jaws of life, which I had only ever seen on the movies. And it was just one of those moments where like my whole life was going before my eyes. I was already struggling with literally everything in life, organization, who am I as a mom? Like all these really deep questions, a lot of us face at some point. I was struggling with depression, anxiety. And now I'm sitting in a hospital not knowing if I'm going to leave a widow.

And that was a really hard pill to swallow. Fast forward to the end of the day, the doctors were like, your husband's going to survive. I'm so grateful. But the doctor's like, you need to get home and, you know, rest, come back and see them in the morning. So my best friends at the time were driving me home. And I'll never forget the moment we walked through my front door and I was faced with all that stuff. I had left behind, you know, the clutter, the piles, the rice on the floor from the night

before. Part of this, I'm not going to lie, it's a season of life, right, with young kids. But I really saw my home through a new lens in the sense that it was taking away so much for me that at this point in time, I could not afford to let it take from me. The time, the energy, I knew I needed to step up as the mom, get my kids through this situation, get myself, help my husband heal when he got home. And in addition to that, and I know we talked about this on our last time, I had this immense shame I've never felt before because like so many of us, you get that call from your friends on a random Tuesday, hey, can I drop this by or can I stop buy and see you? It's like, let me panic clean and hide all my clutter behind the door. I didn't

have time to do that. So I felt so very exposed and vulnerable. And I also hated that that shame was like overpowering what I needed to, you know, like everything else that had happened that day. And I said, this, I will never allow this to happen to me ever again. And where there's a will, there's a way. And that was really the crux of me, you know, getting to the root of my clutter and pairing that with simple, sustainable strategies that I could do working 50, 60 hours a week while raising kids, you know, in order to get myself out of that. And it completely changed so much for me. You know, we all have our own very personal stories. And they all look a little bit different, but they all have such similar threads. It's about what it gives us connection,

presence, happiness. Like I started to feel like myself again. You know, I started to get my bubbly personality back. I thought was like covered in clutter forever. Like, where is she? She's gone for good. No, she's there. And, you know, it's just, it was such an amazing thing. And I knew I needed to scream it from the mountaintops. Well, I'm so glad you're screaming it. And I'm honestly so glad that you started the book with that story. because as I was listening, I, like, felt your emotion walking in that door. You've just had a horrible day and it's chaotic and you come home, which is supposed to catch you and be like the place to, oh my gosh, like support you. But so many of us come home to like, it makes a bad situation worse.

It's chaos. And we can be blind to this and the impact that the clutter is having. And it's so strange that it takes like the worst day for it to really be seen. Yeah, it really jolted me awake. And right, the stuff didn't change. It was just my perception of it changed and my unwillingness to say, I'm too busy or I guess I'm not smart enough to figure this out, you know. And, you know, no one has to hit their rock bottom to change. But I will say for me, that's the one silver lining was it made me buckle up and say,

Katie, this has got to happen. Like so much depends on it. Yeah, I think for me, I mean, I didn't have a dramatic situation like you, but I hit rock bottom, I think, mentally. Yeah. Because I just was so exhausted with managing my life and the mess and the kids and I was always late and could never find anything. And I felt the shame.

Oh, my gosh. If a doorbell rang, it was panic. Oh, I can still feel that feeling. feeling. Yeah, yeah. Yes. It's like being late and I still remember like not being able to find my daughters both matching shoes or the umbrella when it was raining or the bill that I knew had to be paid. That that panic of losing something, the frustration, every day I lived like this until I got to the point where like I'm going to escape and move to Bali. Hey, I don't know if you read the book, where'd you go, Bernadette? But I've never really

it's so hard. I was like, I just need to just blow up my life and run away and hide. Or I can stop ignoring it and saying someday and just dealing with it. And what is so amazing about your book is it's not just another decluttering book telling you, here's 15 things to let go of today. You know, the checklist, which we've all, sometimes they can be helpful. But like you said, clutter is like a weed. And when we just get rid of the surface stuff, it's like kind of cutting the weed off but leaving the root and it grows right back. So I would love you to talk about the root and what you've discovered in your own journey. And you talk about four types of clutter, which I'm so passionate about because this is something I noticed too in helping clients. When we can give it a name and really identify that root, it's so much easier to pull it out. So if you could share your wisdom with us.

Yes, this was revolutionary for me. And like you said, so many of my clients, because, you know, you and I working, having our eyes in so many people's homes, even if it's virtual, you start to notice different patterns. And I noticed, you know, this was all me trying to figure it out in the beginning. And I was like, what is the deal? Why am I like super ninja, like amazing at decluttering one space? But like, I can't even open a box from like high school.

It's like, or like, look at the baby. shoes, you know? I'm like, what is the deal? And it explained to me why so many of the checklists, which can be helpful, amen, right, fell flat in a lot of cases because to me, I really felt like cluttering, there isn't just one type of clutter. And so if you break it down, you know, like an onion, like a true onion, I was just in the kitchen the other day, making a lasagna, chopping that onion. We all know the outer layer, that peel just crumbles right away. There is not any muscle or grit or energy. You just like barely tap it. and it comes off. So if you're looking at your clutter onion, this is what I call superficial

clutter. Now, this is the easy stuff, right? There's no emotion. There's no what if. There's no mental objection or yo-yoing happening. It's the stuff that maybe just piled up because life got busy, right? Duplicates, access, things you know you don't need or want. And this is what trash bag challenges are really, really great for because, again, we want to tackle that stuff. It accumulates in my house too, okay? And it comes off really, fast, which is a little time and energy. So this is also why when people tackle superficial clutter, well, any type of clutter, we feel so good, don't we? We get that mental boost, right? You're talking about it was a mental side for you. We get this instant visual facelift in our house. There's less

visual noise screaming for our attention. We can breathe. I literally just thinking about it, feel my shoulders relax, but I'm like, yes, this is a momentum I need. But it explains why this was me. I would do this feel good. And then, you know, the next day, I would feel overwhelmed again. What's the deal? This one step forward, three steps back. There are deeper layers to tackle. So the next layer in our clutter onion, scarcity clutter.

This is a big one for so many of us. This was me too. This is the just-in-case stuff, the old cords, the clothes you might fit in or wear one day. I don't know. Maybe I want to wear a blazer from 2019 if I go back to work, right? All these different things. The kitchen tools you never use, but you paid for it. $40 for all these different things that at some point, depending on who we are in our background,

can really give us a sense of security. Sometimes it's the monetary piece of it, though. I don't want to get rid of this because it costs X amount. But at the end of the day, it's taking up more space than it's worth. So this is scarcity clutter, the fear of letting go of that. Very common for so many of us here in North America and really anywhere. Next layer in sentimental clutter. I know you speak to this a lot. This is a big one for a lot of people. The wedding dress, the baby shoes. They're so cute. Grandma's China, whatever. These items hold real meaning. Sometimes they hold nostalgia. And it's these types of things. A lot of us, by the way, who I never really was like a self-proclaimed sentimentalist, but people who are, maybe you've experienced this too. And I just want to mention this because so many

people who are like, oh, I'm sentimental feel like I just will never be good at decluttering or like I'll never make progress. Like they come to it, they come to me like, like it's a bad thing. All it means is you have a really big heart and you assign a lot of emotion to things. And that's not that's not inherently bad. It can prove to be a roadblock in some situations, but you can also use it in a really empowering way. And we can talk about other, you know, ways to do that. But then I think the one I really took the longest to understand is at the core of it, which for a lot of us is identity clutter. I feel like there's a, Nutcracker Home Decor story a couple years ago when we last spoke. I don't know if you remember

that, but we mentioned that. Identity clutter is anything tied to who you used to be, who you want to be, maybe who you hope to be or who you hope to become, right? It is so loaded and nuanced identity clutter. This is like maybe educational textbooks from your college career that you are just so proud of. You think of the blood, sweat, and tears, the endless nights. Maybe that's where you met your partner, like all these, they tend to align with these really big life changes and transitions. I mean, it's old clothing from a job. It's, you know, kids stuff can be identity clutter. When we became parents, holy can only my life changed and it's never been the same. And so we can, it's like one step deeper than sentimental clutter. It's like, oh, so the thought

of letting go of some of these identity pieces really means it can mean these stories we create, like the end of a chapter or I'll never have that back, right? And so instead of accepting that as you know, instead of accepting that as true, sometimes we need to like rewire that a little bit, change the story, go through some different things, which obviously we'll talk about and I provide in the book. But really it's that combination of those four clutter types. And I don't want anyone to think like I have to look around my house and identify which one is this and which tool do I need in my tool belt. Again, just like you said, for me, it was about giving words to something so that I could, if needed or when needed, reach in the tool for my tool belt and go, okay, so if

this works really well for superficial clutter, but I'm getting stuck here in scarcity, what else could I try or use that will help me get unstuck and move forward? And that, I think, gives us so much more clarity and empowerment, which are integral in our declutter journey. Because if we don't have clarity every single time, our brain's going to be like, keep the same patterns, keep the same line of thinking, I don't know what to do. I'm overwhelmed. I'm paralyzed, whatever it is, and we're to stop every single time. So that was really the process I created, and it's just been so fruitful to see how it's impacted so many. Yeah, I love this. I know in my own journey, being able to see the why behind the stuff was so critical. And I struggled with all the types of clutter. Let's get real.

But scarcity was a big one for me because I struggled so much with poverty and homelessness. But it was also, I think, easy for me to overcome because once I had that understanding, oh, like, I'm holding on to this old expired food because I was so hungry for so long and couldn't afford food. When I could make that correlation, I could kind of rationalize with myself, like, well, I'm not, I'm in a position now that I won't go back to and I don't, right, but it was identity clutter that I couldn't really rationalize with myself because personally, that I'm just speaking from myself, but that was like, that's a self-esteem issue for me. And that's not something I could just rationalize away kind of thing.

Bip-pip-pap-de-boo. You know, it was like, for. me, identity was I didn't have a lot of self-confidence. And the things about myself I was proud of, well, don't take those from me because it felt like it was taking. And then the hope of who I could become stuff, the person I wanted to be because I didn't feel like the person I was was enough. Yes. Again, that's like for me, that was like a deeper, even deeper than sentimental. The identity clutter I struggled with the most. So I'd love to talk about, that with you. And do you have a specific thing that was like identity clutter for you that you

noticed a pattern? Or do you notice it in other people too? Oh, 100%. Yeah. I would say just two kind of physical manifestations of identity clutter. Is that what you mean? Yes. I'll use, I'll use two different, I'll throw two different ones at you. Number one, my shoes I bought in my early 20s before I had kids to train for a marathon. I remember being so proud. And one day, my husband's a runner. And I was like, I'm going to be a runner too. I'm going to be fit and healthy, whatever, all the meaning, right, we assigned to things. I'm going to run a marathon. So he took me to my first shoe store that I just had running stuff. And I got this pair of shoes. And my husband, Andrew, was like, now, Katie, these are running shoes. They're only for running. You don't walk in these. Like, he was very hardcore.

And I was like, okay. Well, kids came soon after. And every single day, I walked into my closet. And I saw those shoes and I was like, oh, okay. And then my second kid came and I was like, oh, man, I'm not a runner. I wasted $80 on these. I'm just never going to be a runner. I'm never going to be that person. I envision myself crossing the finish line when I set this goal. And now I'm just like 50 pounds overweight. I've got these, you know, babies spit up all over me. It's just like the disparity between like that goal and where I was in life was so large and a lot of negative self-talk kept creeping in. You'll never do that. What were you thinking? I can't believe you spent $80 on that. What's the point? Like, I'm my own worst critic. And one day, as I'm sitting there being like,

have I used these shoes in the last six months? Which is a great question, right? Have I used this thing? The answer is no, but I really couldn't let it go and I didn't understand why, even though these shoes were literally bullying me. Sometimes our stuff talks to us. And so from the book, and I wrote about the story season self. So I'll share that because it really helped me. And the question I asked myself just to cut through like the why behind it, like why am I struggling with these darn shoes is what is the story I have tied to this item and is it one that I want to live?

And that story, you know, which I really just shared, I was like, I don't have to be a marathon runner to like earn my keep or like be a great person. I have a lot of other great qualities in me. And I do cross, I do, I work out in other ways. I maintain my health. And I'm okay with putting that story to bed that like in order to achieve something, I had to cross a marathon finish line. And the next, so you can stop there.

Sometimes just identifying the story you're assigning to things like and just squashing that and being like, that's not even true is enough. If not, you can go to season, which is does this fit the season I'm actually living in right now? No, absolutely not. working 50 hours a week, two young kids, zero season. So then the self piece of it is, does this align with truly who I am today, my goals and desires, or is it who I thought I was supposed to be or is this a past dream? For me, it was just like, it was a past. And so my action step, right, because it's nice to go through these and get clarity mentally, but if we don't take action, what's the point?

So my action step could have been, I can donate these shoes and get them out of my life and never be bullied by them ever again. Or I can change the purpose of them. Technically, yes, they were $80 running shoes, but I'm like, girl, I walk behind the stroller every day. Those running shoes became my walking shoes. All of a sudden, I put those on every day. I felt empowered, happy, glad to use them, you know, got my money's worth. And so that was the action step I took. And it made, like, I get like goosebumps talking about this because like, again, the mental load that some of this clutter gives And then another one I'll mention really quickly was cookbooks. And it really speaks to what you mentioned so vulnerably.

And thank you for sharing that because so many of us women think, and this is going to make me cry. We need to become someone else in order to be worthy, in order to be loved. And maybe that's something about our bodies or our looks or our career, whatever. For me, I grew up in the 90s. And if I could, if I can name one person that had so much like, power over me and who I thought I should be was like Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart was everywhere. And she just really played perfectionism really well.

My mom always had her magazines. My mom was like truly like my own version of a Martha Stewart. She could do everything. She could host. She could make turkeys for 20 people. And I'm like, okay. So I would buy all these like cookbooks in my early 20s with young kids thinking, this is who I want to be. And again, I would never use them. And I was like, why? So again, using the

story sees and self, I'm like, dang, like, part of it was like, if I thought, if I let go of those cookbooks, Cassette, like, I would never be worthy or loved. And on paper, saying that out loud sounds really silly, but this is why we need to get to the root, right? And it's nuanced and it's layered. And a lot of it does have to do with our history and things we picked up as kids that kind of play into this default programming. And once I got to that route, I had an absolute joy festival putting these, I don't know, maybe 12 cookbooks like Martha Stewart, all these like beautiful, perfect women on the covers, which I am far from. And I'm like, I don't need to be this person. And it was so liberating. I probably should have like had a bonfire or something. But I wanted to get, I wanted

to pass them on to someone who really loves to cook. I am not that person. I never will be. And that felt good to put to rest too. Like, I am not that person. I don't need to be different. I can make sandwiches every day and still be a great person. You know, and it's powerful because the clarity we get through this experience of processing identity clutter, I think really specifically continues to pay off and give us a return on investment. And that includes things I decide to buy in the future from the decision of letting go of these cookbooks and understanding like I am loved, I can be loved how I am now. It's good to be aspirational and to do things, you know, improve ourselves, all that stuff. I'm not saying it's don't do that. But we put a lot of kind of unexpected weight and

meaning in our physical possession. It feels so good to just like cut that cord and like take your power back and be like, oh, yes. I don't know. It's just good. It's good stuff. It is. And hearing you talk, It's just such a reminder of how therapeutic decluttering is because it's never about the stuff. And sometimes we treat it like it's just the stuff when we fill a bag or a box and we're like, yay. But when we can go deep and ask ourselves the stories or why we're struggling, like it's supposed to be uncomfortable. And we don't just be like, oh, it's uncomfortable. I'm going to stop.

If we really lean into that and ask the why, and I love that you say, what's the story that this is telling? We are going down a journey that people pay a lot of money to therapists for. We are finding things about ourselves. We are. And I also, I mean, I am older than you, but Martha Stewart, listen, she, we already have so much pressure on us as women. And then to see someone with the whole brand of, you can do this too. And this is how you should live your life with perfect gardens and homemade bread over here

making homemade bread list and let's not go there. But the point is so much pressure and then we add even more onto our plates with unrealistic expectations. Side note, did meet Martha Stewart once like 10 years ago. She's a terrible nightmare of a woman there. No way. Why are we even wanting to say? She's a monster. They say, never. They say, never. ever meet your heroes, not saying she was your hero. But I've also heard in, we'll call it like the entertainment industry, I would put her in that box. Like the people who play like your favorite mom and dad on TV are actually horrible in person. And the people who are like not so nice, like they portray the not so nice characters actually like beautiful and lovely. This is what I hear.

And I'm like, okay, so actually that lines up. Also very, very sad to hear. I'm sorry about that. I think she, I mean, to get to that level of success, you have to kind of be a level of sociopathic. Is that the one? So I think she'd kick a kitten to sell a cookbook, okay? Oh no, I'm a cat lady. I'm coming for you, Martha. You will not take on my cats, girl. Okay, we got a problem now.

Sorry. This isn't nice. This is going a place. But yeah, we have all these expectations. And for me, my identity clutter was like two things. One was the stuff I was really proud of myself for. So I had a lot of home decor clutter because I had been homeless for so long. And then when I became a homeowner, I really tried to make it look nice. So every pillow, every old thing, even if I didn't like it, it felt like the best version of me. That's so weird to say. So that was really hard. And then I also struggled with fantasy me. The person I thought I would be like, I need to be a better cook. I need to be more attractive.

I was 250 pounds for the majority of my adult life. And so I gathered a lot of like protein powder and workout clothes and like workout gear that I never used. But looking at that felt like I can't get rid of it because it's admitting that I'll always be what I hate. That's right. If I let this go, I'm admitting that I'll never be good enough. And if I hold on to it, maybe tomorrow's the day that I'll change and be the person I actually want to be. That was so tough for me because I feel like the added pressure that our clutter gives us is actually detrimental for us becoming the person we want to be. Not only is it stealing our time and our energy and our mental capacity, but it is just a mirror of our failing.

And when you are filled with shame and you look around your house and you feel like what is wrong with me, look, I'm a terrible, we aren't motivated to be our best self. We're just wallowing in our worst behaviors. And it's so hard to get started. So I love that you are, you call it holistic decluttering. But it is, isn't it? It's treating the whole thing. with emotion and kindness and loving. And you're sort of ignoring the stuff and really focusing on the why behind. And I think that's so beautiful. So thank you. Oh, well, thank you. I'm glad it resonates. If you have clutter in your basement or your garage and you are so sick of it,

the fastest way to declutter, you know, is renting a dumpster. So today I have to thank today's podcast sponsor, 1-800-got-jut. Because right now, you can give them a call, book your free in-person estimate today by visiting 1-800-gotjunk.com or calling 1-800-468-65. They will come in. You just point to the clutter. They'll load it up and take it away. You don't have to lift a finger. They do everything for you. And when they're gone, your space will look so much better. So what are you waiting for? Book your free in-person estimate today, visit 1-800 gotjunk.com or call 1-800-468-6-5-8-65. What do I always say is my biggest regret when it comes to decluttering, not ordering a dumpster fast enough.

For my listeners who are decluttering right now, if you were to give them a little mini-challenge, they love the mini-challenges, is there something they can do in the next 10 minutes that they can take action and actually do something. And this action can be physically putting things in or it can, I'm putting you on the spot here, Katie, but they can also take action like asking themselves certain questions or one category of stuff. Do you have, I did not, I should have talked to you about this ahead of time, but you're amazing. So I know you got this. Do you have a challenge that my listeners are willing to charge into like warriors that they are? Yes. I want to talk to my note about clarity, right? Your challenge for all the listeners out there is to roll up those sleeves and write on your phone, write down on a piece of pen or paper what your definition of clutter is. Because here's

the thing. For years, I didn't actually know what the definition of clutter is. And if it's a problem, we're all trying to solve and get better at and build that muscle with, but we can't actually define clutter. And if we have partners, we want to get rid of their clutter and kids that we need to teach about the concept of clutter, being able to let go, pay it forward, all those things. If we can't write it down and define it, it also becomes a lot harder to identify it, let it go, move on from. And so my definition of clutter is this and use it as inspiration. I'll give you some others too. Clutter is anything that isn't actively supporting me, my life, or my goals. Pretty simple.

You wanted to be pretty straightforward. Now I'll give you some other ones. I think Joshua Becker any clutter is anything that leads to the feeling of disorganization. Do you have a definition of clutter? You kind of go by? Yeah, no, but this is so good. Okay. For me, I feel like clutter is something that's taking and not giving.

So I sometimes call it like a squatter. Like, you know, my parents used to rent. My parents used to have rent. I get it. They used to have rental property and they would have someone come in and at first they're paying rent and they're great and they're like, eh. And then they just like stop paying rent. And now you just like have them taking up space and they're just sucking from you. Except it's almost worse because they're in the home you're also living in and you're like sponge bathing them for some reason. And then you're like, oh, I have a lot of squatters. So you build the mini condominiums, which are just totes that you know and you stack those squatters in the Now they have like little houses that you've built for them for some reason. Yeah. And it's all just stuff that when you really think of it, like what's it giving to me?

It's nothing. It's giving me maybe I can use it someday. That's not giving you anything today. So I think that's how I would define clutter is like, okay. The stuff that's not giving me value. I love that. Right.

And so your kind of keyword is also mine is actively supporting, which is giving. Like it didn't give it. I don't know, give it to me. And now it's not serving a purpose, right? You see what I'm saying? And so here's why it's important. I think it's not just about like kind of writing your definition of clutter and like putting a as a bumper sticker on your car or whatever.

I think it's important because this is what's always kind of going through my mind as I'm walking through my house and I'm doing clutter audit. So I'm just looking. I'm like the eye of saura and I'm a Lord of the Rings fan. So like I joke that I'm like the Eye of Saran and I'm always looking for instead of the ring. Right? I'm like, where is some easy stuff to let go of? Right. So my go-to question, like, I'm looking at my desk right now. Is there anything that isn't actively supporting me, my life or my goals on here? And to make it a little more tangible, have I had the opportunity to use this in the last six months? Tends to kind of be the part B of that if I'm like a little on the fence. And that combination, my definition with like a little rule to follow helps me get rid of thousands of things a year without. quitting my job, hiring someone to come in and pay tens of thousands of dollars to do it for me,

whatever, waiting for my kids to go to college. I mean, with no sweat, blood or tears involved. Okay, so we're glad about that. We're all safe and healthy to de-clutter. But it is, again, I just can't speak to the return on investment that just being clear on clutter has given me. But also, my boys are now 9 and 11. And I started the conversation around clutter with them years ago at, you know,

an appropriate time for our family in their age and development. But like it's so cool to see how they've taken that and kind of have their own spin on it. And it's like an evolving thing for them. And I think, you know, if that's something we want to model and teach, we have to be able to say it, whether it's in a family meeting, talking about it as we're doing a quick declutter session in the room to get ready for whatever school. It's just so, so powerful. So that would be a little challenge that I promise you'll think about me every time. You think you, think you, your definition or use it to help you actively let go or something. Yeah, that's so good because it's what you didn't say, I'm my listeners, I can promise when you're writing down, is like clutter's

the stuff that didn't cost money or clutter is the stuff that doesn't. Right? When we really talk about the definition, it's not all the roadblocks that are coming in when we actually go to remove an item, which is like, ooh, that was expensive. What if I don't have the money to replace it? or oh, my aunt gave me that. And even though it's hideous, I don't want to offend my aunt that I don't even really like. And she obviously doesn't know me that well because she bought me something I absolutely hate, but I still feel guilty and I'm keeping it. That didn't come into the definition at all.

It did not. So why are we giving those dumb excuses power when it comes to letting go? So good. Okay. Challenge accepted you guys. I want you to write down your definition of clutter and just ask. that question. Another question that I ask myself a lot of the times is if this like burst into flames or was gone, would I buy it again? Oh, yeah. No, the answer is no. It's no. Then why? You wouldn't think

about it ever again. Yeah. Right. And when I go into a client's home, I do want to talk about this because I find this as an organizer really fascinating. A lot of the times I see clutter. I'm using air quotes here because it just is mess. It's not necessarily clutter because they may be using it and it's important. But I look around and there's no place for things to go. Yes. Like homes are not always built with like storage for real lives and real families. Like real life families. Correct. Yeah. So I do think we have to declutter first. And I think there's this, we all know this fundamentally.

So we go to Walmart and buy a bunch of squatter condominiums to put our crap in thinking that Toots are going to solve the problem. They rarely, if ever, solve the problem. Done that. Yeah, I've done that too so many times. But when we start with decluttering, then we can get rid of that layer. You call it superficial, but so good. Get rid of that layer. Then we can do the deep emotional, holistic, therapeutic work of like asking the questions. And then the things that are left, we can say, okay, well, now I do need to create real homes for this. Do you find that, I know you love decluttering, but is there an organizing lover in there, too, a little bit? Or are you like, decluttering is enough.

I say this because I have some very good friends of mine who are like, all you've got to do is declutter and then everything magically works out. Maybe I have not decluttered enough for that. I need some organization. I might be a maximum. No, I think for me, it's not. I understand why. I think it's the aesthetics part. Sometimes I get hung up. Like, I think a lot of organizers, it's too much.

Like, there's so many things that have to happen in the perfect order at the perfect time. And I am not that personality, right? Your little organizing types that are incredible. Like, I am not that. And it feels overwhelming to me. So for me, I organize just super Uber simply. And it works for my personality type. But I do think, yes, a time and a place for organizing.

Absolutely. I will say, like, inside is an organizer for sure, too. I love that. Because we can say, why are all these shoes and coats and clutter at the door? Oh, it's just clutter. But if you don't have a hook or a hanger. Exactly. Yeah. Listen, friend. We need some foundational things there. We need a foundation. We need some structure to you. This is so good. Okay, let my listeners know, one, how they can follow you because I'm a huge fan of your social media. Two, where they can buy your book because it came out in February, right? Yes. Yeah. You can buy the book, I think almost anywhere books are sold. Amazon tends to be a top spot, but look at your local book retailer

if you want to go that route too. A lot of them carry it. Barnes & Noble certainly has it. I go into Barnes and Noble anytime I travel and sign it, so you might be lucky. I might get a little signage in there. And then, of course, I love being on Instagram is my social of choice. It's under my full name, Katie Joy Wells. And you can check out the podcast to Maximized Minimalist New Episodes out weekly. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to put a link to your book, of course, in the description. It is so, so good. And such a powerful start to that book that I feel like sets the tone for the entire message, which is it has nothing to do with the actual physical stuff and everything to do with you and what's going on

inside. So beautiful message. Thank you, Katie. Thank you. And we're doing like a podcast swap, which is cool because you have a podcast too. So my listeners, if you want to continue the conversation, I'm going to put a link to Katie's podcast down below, and I will be on there. Just to give them a little teaser for when you're on my show, we're going to talk about why organizing systems often fall apart and how to build ones at last because, hello, your host is kind of the queen of that. Like, Cass is incredible. So come listen.

Come give it a listen. I'm excited to hear what comes out of my mouth. I hope I sound half as good as you do because you're amazing. Thank you again so much for being. on the podcast. Thank you. I have to interrupt this podcast for a quick second to thank the sponsor, Caraway. I switched to Caraway cookware years ago, and I'm so glad that I did because not only do I no longer have those light, crappy, non-stick pots and pans that used to be so scratched, but now I know that those pans released so many toxins into my food. And I'm not like,

I'm not super into the earth and non-toxic, but I definitely don't want to eat microbial. plastics on purpose. So I got rid of them and went with non-toxic Caraway cookware. They're so heavy duty. They're beautiful. They clean so well. They cook evenly. If you want to give Caraway a try, go to Carawayhome.com and use my exclusive coupon code Clutterbug 10 to save 10% off today. That's carawayhome.com and use the coupon code Clutterbug 10 to save 10% off today. I hope you loved that interview as much as I did. I love talking to Katie. I really do. I just, she feels, she feels like a comfy old friend. I don't know how else to describe it. I could talk to her all day and no matter what she says, I mean, she's talking about decluttering and

clutter and minimalism, but it still always feels so fresh and new and inspiring to me, even after 17 years of talking about the same thing. She has a way of making it new. So thank you to Katie. I'm going to put links to all of the ways that you can follow her. And of course, by her new book in the show notes. Make sure you check that out. Now are you ready for my favorite part of the podcast? We are going to do a talk to Cass. First up is Lauren. Hi, Cass. What is your advice when there's no entryway to put a landing zone? I live in a small Cape Cod house. When you open our front door, you are facing the steps to the second floor. To the left is the kitchen and to the right is the dining room. We have coat hooks and a shoe rack behind the front door on the dining room side.

But I really wish we had space for baskets, for keys, gloves, somewhere to put backpacks. It just doesn't seem like there's a wall space without really spreading from the door and into one of the rooms. What should we do? I am a bee with a husband who is a ladybug and two little butterflies. Thank you. Oh, man, this is so tough. It is, why are homes built like this? These side splits, I don't even know what you call them. Like the raised ranches.

I lived in one too. My last host was like this. And there is literally no place to put anything. So frustrating. Obviously, I'm going to say use that landing zone when you first come in. Like there's a, there's this little like pad that you can stand on. It's usually four feet by four feet. It's very, very small.

but there is wall space there. So take advantage of that with shoe organizers from IKEA. They are about four inches deep, some of them six inches deep, but still enough for you to actually pass through and go up. It sounds like you're already really trying. Without seeing the space, I'm wondering at the top of the stairs if you have an open banister. If that's something you could close. And I know that sounds like sucky and you're going to have less light in your entrance way, but maybe right along that wall when you first come up, if you could close that, you could actually put some vertical storage because you'd have a wall. In my home, what we did is we actually started entering through the garage and we turned the garage into a sort of mudroom. It was not ideal. I had to

change the way we entered our house. It sucked for a little while, but we got used to it and it made a bad situation better. So again, without seeing your space, I can't offer tangible. Like, I can't say exactly what to do, but I would encourage you to do some out-of-the-box thinking and look at your house different and see if there's a good enough alternative. It won't be perfect, but hopefully it'll be better. Now let's hear from Katrina. Hey, Cass, I have a story that I am excited to share with you. So, for starters, I listen to your second podcast about do it shitty. And I listened to it four times in a row because, one, it was a great message. But two, because at the beginning of the podcast, you said, clean your vacuum cleaner.

And then you said, then now do something else that you are not looking forward to doing because there's still more in this podcast. And the thing I was not looking forward to doing was installing insulation, fiberglass insulation, in our crawl space in between the floor choice. And so that morning, I put on all the little jumpsuit and goggles, protective gear and installed fiberglass and cut that insulation to size in between Joyce, etc. for four podcasts in a row because I had so many gloves on and it kept replaying and I couldn't stop it. So I got to learn that episode very well, which is what I needed because I'm someone

who is a perfectionist and I need to learn, you know, doing a job 80% is better than 100%. and you were asking for tips and tricks for your book on ways you can do it shit. And today I did something and it was really funny and you would love it. So I'm just telling you a story now. But that's the backstory of how we got to this. So today my husband went outside to shovel the snow and I said to myself, wow, wouldn't that be funny if I took chocolate and smeared it all over the bathroom and melted chocolate making him think that there was shit everywhere?

And then I was like, this is a great idea because then if I do that and there's chocolate everywhere, then we have to clean the bathroom. And so, instructions unclear. I did it literally shitty, or, you know, almost literally. And so my husband comes back and I'm like, yeah, babe, I prank you. You got to find it. He wasn't finding it. Then he found it in the bathroom. And he's like, oh, my God, why? And I told him, I was like, oh, don't worry. You don't have to clean it. I will. And I used Rolos as a melted chocolate, so the caramel really stuck, which I knew it would. The chocolate wiped off easily. But the whole bathroom,

faucet that I smeared chocolate or poop on. I got that scrubbed nice and clean, the toilet nice and clean. And this is a great life hack to get yourself to clean something. Although, warning, if you're too lazy, this might backfire. Because imagine petting the chocolate and being like, I don't feel like cleaning it. It's just chocolate. People can use the toilet peeing over it. It's fine. Because for a second, I got tired of scrubbing the caramel. And I was like, this is good enough. We can leave it for two months until I'm motivated. And then I thought that was really funny because imagine having a house guest. So yeah, that's a life hack if you want to share that with others. If they don't want to clean something, make them so much bigger by some sweet chocolate

everywhere. And then you have to do it because no one's going to believe you with chocolate. All right, have a great day. Thanks. First of all, Katrina, no. That, I love the sentiment, but also no, because I have a gag reflex. And even though it's chocolate, nope, in the bathroom is a hard no. But, okay, what about if it's shaving cream or something else that's like clean adjacent that you put everywhere? That could work. I mean, it could work. Second of all, your type of weird is the type that we could be friends. Like, I just, I love it. So thank you for phonying. Oddness is the best trait in a person. And so yes, was that two. far, most undoubtedly. And also the Carmel. So mistakes were made, but it worked out. So yay, listeners to the podcast. I am not saying to do that, actually. In fact, I'm going to say no, don't do that. Okay, that is all. Thank you, Katrina. Thank you everyone for tuning in. I hope you are feeling motivated and inspired, but more importantly, I hope you're really proud of yourself. Because whatever you got done

today, even if it was just listening to this podcast, you are further ahead than you were before. And for that, I'm super proud. So I hope you're proud of yourself. And I'll see you guys next time.