Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - The 5 Step Trick That Makes Procrastination Impossible | Clutterbug Episode #345

Episode Date: September 28, 2026

Hey Clutterbugs! Want to know how to stop procrastinating and finally start the things you keep putting off, from decluttering your house to chasing a big dream? In this episode, I sit down with Dana K. White, author of Procrastinators Get Stuff Done and creator of the No Mess Method, to break down her simple five-step anti-procrastination process for overcoming overwhelm, one tiny step at a time. Dana taught hundreds of thousands of people to declutter without making a bigger mess, and now she's turned the same approach on procrastination. We talk about why we really put things off, why "make a plan" is step four and not step one, and why so many of us spiral into research mode instead of taking action. I also get real about the book edits I've been avoiding, and we try the method on my own manuscript live. I'll also tell you the story of how I went from "this system will never work for me" to full-blown Dana K. White believer. Procrastinators Get Stuff Done comes out October 6th, and you can pre-order at danakwhite.com/procrastinate, where the pre-order bonuses include strategy sessions working through real projects! Want to get organized? Learn 6-Step The Clutterbug Method: https://clutterbug.thinkific.com/courses/Clutterbug-Method You can find more Clutterbug content here: Main YouTube Channel: @Clutterbug Website: http://www.clutterbug.me TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/ #clutterbug #podcast #danakwhite #nomessmethod #procrastination #stopprocrastinating Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever met someone and not liked them or judged them and then found out how very wrong you were? This is crazy pants. Today on the podcast, we are talking to literally one of my bestest friends who, when I first met her, was not a fan. In fact, I thought she was full of baloney. And I said so, in nicer words, to her face. Because the first time I met this person, I flew to where she lived and we rented an Airbnb. And I was just like, well, I guess now we're working together, except I don't believe in anything you're saying.

So you better convince me. And convince me she did. Today we are talking to the incredible Dana K. White. She is the author of many bestselling books, including decluttering at the speed of life, which is like absolutely life-changing. She also is the co-host of Take Your House Back with me. And Don from the Minimal Mom, we created a community based on Dana's No Mess Decluttering Method that helps hundreds of thousands, literally hundreds of thousands of people all over the world,

take back their home. And it's all because we follow Dana's method. Was I skeptical at first? Yep. Did she yell at me for cussing? Abso-frickin-lutely. We were not best friends. We were not even really liking each other the first time we met. But now I'd take a bullet for that woman. So buckle up before we get started, just like always. Just like always, you're not allowed to just listen or watch. I want you to make yourself so proud and to celebrate Dana and her awesomeness.

What I really want you to do is something so ridiculously easy, just so you can check it off. That could be throwing out the leftovers that are nasty and full of mold from your fridge without having to clean your entire fridge. That could be emptying your garbage cans around your home without having to clean the entire room. It could be literally putting away a load of laundry without having to fold it first. like take some shortcuts give yourself a break do the easy stuff while you're listening and make progress and only progress are you ready to learn something amazing about something we all struggle with which is procrastination because dana has found a system created a system that can once and for all break you free of the procrastination cycle. So let's chat with Dana K. White. Welcome Dana K. White to the

Clutterbug podcast. Welcome back. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me on again. This is really fun. Dana, you and I met like what seven years ago. Was it that long? I think it has yes. I think it's almost exactly seven years ago. And Don from the minimal mom reached out to me and she said, I would love to do a course with you and Dana K. White. Will you, Like, well, I'll fly. I think we went to Texas and film this together. And I didn't really even know what we were going to do. And I was like, sure, yeah, this sounds great.

And then we got together and Dawn was like, we're basing this on Dana's no mess method. And I went, well, that's never going to work because you're no mess method. I'm going to get distracted. And I'm going to leave the, that doesn't work for me. I can't leave the room. I have ADHD. And I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of clients. and I've never done it this way.

And I thought you were full of BS. And sorry about that. Sorry, not sorry. I was like, this system sucks and I don't want to be part of it. But I flew to freaking Texas and here I am. And so I was skeptical. And I said to you that I was skeptical. Oh, yeah.

And you were like, I'm just going to show you. And you took me in the other room in an Airbnb and I pretended and we picked some random stuff and we did your five-step no-mess method in real time. And I couldn't dispute it. I was like, oh, this works. Still, Dana, I'm going to admit, still a little skeptical. And then I saw it work with literally hundreds of thousands of people stop the overwhelm. People who had, who were hoarders, people who had lived their whole,

life in cluttered to the ceiling, followed your no mess method with, which means there's no overwhelm. That's what you do that's so different. You never make a bigger mess. You're never feeling like stressed or, or it's just, it's follow the steps. Stop over thinking. Every bit of progress as success. And it works.

And I now am a Dana K. White believer. So when you tell me, I've drank the Kool-Aid, girl. So when you tell me that you've came up with a five-step method for overcoming procrastination, I don't even have to hear it to know that it works. Well, it's based on the same concepts. It's based on counting every progress I can do anything and I will have made progress. And Cass, I mean, I'm just so thankful for you.

Because you, it makes sense to me that the method would make sense to you because your heart and your gift is to see how unique we all are and how we need to be honored in how our brain works. This just happens to be how my brain works. I get easily overwhelmed at big stuff. And so your ability to say, hey, like I love when you tell people, you're not lazy, you just organize differently. Like that is such a gift that you give to people. And so I'm always very thankful for that. And that's why I feel very at ease talking with you. Because I know that your heart is to genuinely meet people where they actually are and to truly help them. I'm so excited to talk about your book because, well, I love talking with you.

We've been working together helping people declutter for years and years and years. But your new book, procrastinators, get stuff done. it feels almost like a club. Like I love the title so much because I am such a procrastinator. Still, even to this day, do you identify as a procrastinator? I absolutely do. I do. That is the perspective this book is written from the same way that I write everything I write.

Like I don't know how to write something where I'm great at it and everybody else needs to listen to me. I'm like, hey, this is my struggle. This is what I've learned. And this is what actually works. And you know what works when it comes to decluttering because you took something that felt so overwhelming. And you turned it into actual steps, like tangible steps that stop the overwhelm. And we have seen this work, you and your own business, but together with Take Your House Back, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people are like, this is what works for me.

And now you're doing the same thing with procrastination. Yeah. Yeah, I basically, I've been teaching decluttering probably 14 years. I started doing what I'm doing 17 years ago, but I didn't teach anything in the beginning. I was just trying to figure it out. And I took what I learned and in decluttering at the speed of life, I made a process, a five-step process. I took all the things that I had learned about decluttering, put them into steps. And I saw, oh, there's so much power in having a step.

step by step process that takes me from completely stuck to, okay, I'm done now. And I started to learn, I started to see that the things I was doing in my decluttering process were changing how I thought about all sorts of situations, even non-clutter situations. And so I was taking the things that I new worked and applying it elsewhere. And I started hearing from a lot of people who would tell me, oh, I also have learned things through your decluttering process that I am now applying to other situations. So that's why I'm talking about procrastination. I've created a new five-step process that takes us from that so that you don't have to like take the decluttering process and then like figure out how that applies. No, I've already done that. Right. Like I've said, this is how to approach any

situation where you feel completely overwhelmed and stuck how to get started, how to keep going, and how to get all the way to the finish line. Okay, is this going to work for, obviously, you've going to nail it for the decluttering and the mess, which my listeners will listen to. But what about the really hard stuff or even the fun stuff? Like sometimes I feel like we procrastinate, not just things that are hard, but dreams? we procrastinate like even having fun some why why have you really looked into or identified some of these root causes because as a procrastinator I always told myself it was laziness but I don't think that's true it's I believe it's emotional exhaustion I believe we are exhausted by the idea of making

decisions because we've already got so many decisions that we have to make that it feels like I want to do this thing or I have to do this thing, but it's going to be so many decisions. And so we don't do it. We don't get started because we think I need to know better what I'm doing first or I need to learn more before I can ever get to that point. I need to figure this out first. like you and I do very similar things. So you probably have received the emails that I completely relate to from so many people who say, I want to, you know, tell me exactly how this is going to end.

Tell me exactly how long this is going to take. And also for people who will tell me, I have made a plan. Maybe they've watched every single video of both of ours and they have listened to every single podcast and they have read every single podcast. And they have read every single book and they are trying to write out a plan before they ever actually take action. And all of that is based on not really knowing because they haven't gotten in there and experienced anything. And so step four of my five step anti-procrastination process is make a plan. Step four. Where it feels like it's supposed to be step one. Everybody does it step one. Yes. And yet.

there are a lot of things that I can do that don't require any decisions whatsoever that will actually get me started. And if I, so my first three steps are decision free steps, just like in my decluttering process. Okay. But the experience that I gain from those steps and the, the, the, I can chip away a lot of this overwhelming project that I've been looking at from way over here. And this just grows and grows and grows. and I think I don't know how to get from there to there.

So instead, I chip away at that. And by doing the decision-free steps, I can get to about right here. Now I understand what I'm dealing with. Now the project itself is so much smaller because I've already done a lot of things without making a single decision. And by the time I make a plan, I'm ready. Like, I know how to make this plan, because I am in it.

I'm not just looking at it as this thing down the road that continues to grow and grow and grow more overwhelming. You've already taken some steps which feel like success. Oh, this is a good day now. Okay, before we get into the steps and I'm really hoping you share them with us. Absolutely. I want to talk. I really want my listeners to think about their own life because we all procrastinate things that suck. Okay.

but I feel like there's also procrastination that sometimes can be even more devastating. Yes, putting off the dishes is going to make it harder to clean tomorrow. Putting off decluttering is going to make it harder. But I'm thinking about my mom who has a handle on her home. She's doing really well. But every time I talk to her, she tells me about her dream that she's been going to do someday. She wants to travel the world. When I was really little, she would say, oh,

we're going to go in a family vacation. I want to travel. Maybe when you're done elementary school. And then it was maybe, you know, once you start high school. And then it turned into maybe one day when I'm done the home renovations or maybe after I retire. And then even after she retired, it's when the yard work's done. When I'm done, it's always. And yet, this is like her life dream. She'll be 73 and has not yet. travel the world. What is going on? And more importantly, what's a step that someone can take when they're feeling stuck no matter what they're procrastinating? Are you saying these steps work, no matter if it's a dream or the yard work or the pile? It does. It does. So I teach the five-step process and then I apply it to three different situations. One of them is refinancing your mortgage, right? Like this is something that I know I should do. But also, I don't know how to do that.

And it's overwhelming and it feels put off a bowl. But then I'm also regretting that I've put it off because what if the, you know, all these different things. One of them is starting a small business. One of them is making a friend. So we're talking about something that's aspirational, starting a small business, something that I really have to do, the, you know, refinancing my house. but then also something that's highly emotional of making a friend because loneliness is a real thing and it can be such a daunting thing like you see the friendship that I want down the road this is the ideal that I have right now I'm so lonely that this going from here to here I don't know how to get there

So instead, we have the process. So step one of my five-step anti-procrastination process is going to sound familiar to you because it's based on what I learned decluttering and teaching people to declutter and dealing with every roadblock that people face. Okay. And that is, step one is look, non-committal looking with no attachment of action. It's actually an action to look, to purposefully look, look at not research, okay, not gather more information. Instead, look at your situation. So like in your mom's situation, what would that mean? That would mean that going and finding her passport and finding out when it expires is a legitimate step that she has taken. Now she knows because as long as you're thinking, this is my dream, you think, do I have a passport? Is it expired? How long did those last? I don't know. How do you get a passport? I've heard it's a big deal. All of these things, do I even know where my birth certificate is? That, you know, all these things of, I think this is what's involved. I don't know how much it costs. I don't know how much time is worth it.

Like, are we talking, you have to have a month to travel or three days or, well, I can, but I can look at my schedule. I can look at my bank account. I can see, okay, I've got this much in savings. I can look at these things that I think, oh, I couldn't travel because I still owe such and such amount on this other thing. Okay, I can go look and see, I'm going to be done paying for my car in, you know, one year. Okay, well, now I know something that I didn't know before because maybe I was a bit afraid to look, right?

Like, I just thought it was better to dream and research. And instead, I'm going to go. And every time that I do that, every time I do purposeful looking, with zero commitment attached to it, I am taking an action. And I have moved forward because if I was ever going to go on this trip, I would have to know where my passport is or I would have to know how to get a passport, right? Do you know what I'm thinking? She could just look at her calendar.

She could look at the calendar and maybe see like, oh, this is a week where we don't have birthdays, of grandkids. this would be a great week to travel, not knowing where she's going, but like that's action. And when you're looking at, when you're thinking before you've looked at the calendar, okay, and you think that I have to decide when we can take a trip. That's when all these things enter your brain of like, okay, well, who else going on the trip? And it depends where? Because you don't want to go to Florida in the winter, in the summer.

All these things. And so you start to spin out on all the things that I'm going to have to figure out when in reality, looking at my calendar is an actual step that would have to be taken anyway. And I can do that with zero commitment. And now I'm looking at this whole project from a perspective of success. I have started, which means I have technically beaten procrastination. There are still so many things to do. I may find myself stuck in procrastination down the line, but I've got steps to help me keep moving. And I've started. And that's the whole goal. So this purposeful looking is really, really powerful. I think this is so good. And I don't know why I haven't thought of this, Dana, because here's just what's going on in my life.

Last week, my editor finally, after months of silence, came back to me with my document, my full manuscript. And she said, here's all the edits I need you to make inside this. document and I need it in a week. And I have been so scared. And what I've done is panic. Talk to my husband. I need to take time off work. What am I going to do? I'm never going to get. And I've been like, oh, I'll do it. Maybe, maybe. Oh, gosh, what am I? I got to rent an Airbnb maybe. And I'm just over here hyperventilating. It's because you're looking at the whole thing. I haven't even opened. What if I just opened the document and just look at it? That's exactly it. So I, the

This is my sixth book. What you're going through, I'm just telling you, is the most normal thing in the world. Okay? Because you're thinking of all the big things. She said I have a week. I don't. What is that going to look like? What does that mean?

You don't know yet. So the noncommittal, purposeful looking is opening up the document and reading through her comments without any pressure to do anything with them. Like that's not what you're doing right now. So when you first, because it can be very easy to read a comment and you think, that's not what I meant. And no, no, no, I've got to explain this. And then you get into battle mode, right? And you're like, I've got, no, I've got to make sure she understands what. And then you're overwhelmed and it's very easy to shut down and stop.

But instead saying right now what I am doing is I am looking. I am purposefully looking. All I'm doing is reading through. And even though I'm going to feel some feelings, that's okay. I'm just looking for right now. And you're removing the unknown from this situation, which the unknown causes us to procrastinate. This is, I see 100% how this is going to work for me, but I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second because what if somebody, and they're probably feeling this if they're listening to the Clutterbug podcast, they're like,

my kitchen's a wreck. And I've been procrastinating, cleaning it. or the dishes and I see it every day Dana I'm looking at that mess right now and that's not helping or I'm looking at the craft room that I just shut the door or I'm looking at the grass that's up to my waist this is the difference between purposeful looking and just seeing it as part of your life because we know I mean this was my story I was able to block things out but if I look and I purposefully look and I say because part of the reason why we haven't gone in and we we haven't actually dealt with anything is it is such a big job to get that kitchen clean. Okay.

And so that is overwhelming. And we're looking down the road at the perfect kitchen, the perfectly clean kitchen. But instead, I'm going to walk in and I'm going to say, okay, I am just going to look and see what it is exactly that I have to do. And I look and I see that, oh, the majority of this could go in the dishwasher. Okay. I'm not saying I'm doing that thing yet, but I am looking and say, oh, mixed in with what I thought was an entire countertop covered in dirty dishes are actually those canned goods that I didn't put away when I first came home, right? And actually there is, you know, the clean dishes on the dish drainer. That's there too. But it all blended together because I wasn't purposefully looking. I was actually. avoiding the situation. But when I go in and I say, I'm going to look and see what the actual situation is, or like for the grass, okay? You talk about the grass and you're like, bowing the lawn is a big deal and I know I've got a bunch of weeds. You know, I have been,

over the summer, I walked around my driveway. It's like a tenth of a mile around the driveway. And so I would walk around it and walk around it and walk around it. And I'm like, the understanding that I gained of what was actually going to be involved in dealing with my flower beds was, it changed everything because I was purposefully looking. Every time I would walk by the flower beds, I was like, okay, it's not just a mess. It's a couple of things right here that have to be done, and then this task has to be done. And now it's not as overwhelming to me. I'm not done.

I'm not saying that looking actually changes the situation that you want to change yet. but it is stopping the procrastinating. Like I am purposefully looking and I am seeing what's in this, what is my actual situation for your mom? She knows her actual reality of do I have a passport or not? What is my budget? What is my calendar? I am looking.

I'm not researching because researching spins us out often, right? But instead to say, I'm going to look at my unique situation. And then you get to check off your step one, which I see how this is powerful because you feel like you've already started. You have started just by look. You literally have started. It's good. Give me step two. I don't know if you can share all five, but I'm going to get as much out of you as I can for my listeners.

Okay, step two, I've looked at the document. I'm scared, but I've opened up the book, Dana, and I see 10 million edits that have to be made. Check, check. What step two? You're going to recognize it. It's do the easy stuff. Do the stuff that you already know would have to be done if you were ever to finish this project. What can you go ahead and do right now that if the project was ever done, this would have to be done? Okay.

So what is something? well it's to go with it just hit the check mark on all the things that she says that are spelling mistakes that requires no thought exactly like these are the easiest things I know that this thing that should be capitalized and I didn't capitalize it that one's easy if you take that and you go through your manuscript and you go from a hundred corrections or a hundred notes to now we've gone down to 30, where maybe it's like a, hey, let's talk about this idea and maybe add a little bit here. Like, that's a whole different thing. You're going from 100 to 30. If you look at your flower bed and you say, okay, those weeds right there are weeds that I know are weeds, right?

Like sometimes maybe I'm like, is that a weed or is that it actually a nice plant? I'm not for sure. And also, like, I don't have time to weed this entire garden. And so I say, I know for a fact that these are weeds, okay? I'm going to pull those up. Maybe there's poison ivy. Do you all have poison ivy where you are? Yeah, we do. Poison oak.

It's awful. Like, it's horrible. And you're scared and you're like, I don't know. I mean, I, what do I have to wear to do that? And then what if I wear gloves and then I scratch my face and then I get all these things. And I'm like, oh, but I know this one right here is not poisonous and I can easily pull that one out. And that reduces the overwhelming feeling. that you experience when you look at the overall project and the project is smaller. So by the time I get to step

four, which is make a plan, I am in the midst of this project and this project is so much smaller than it was back when I was making this big detailed plan based on something that I hadn't actually gotten into yet. Like I was just basing my plan on what I was imagining this was going to be like. I know things now because I am in it and I am doing the easy stuff. Like, is there anything in this situation that I, when I stop to think about it, when I ask myself, what's easy? When I ask myself, what do I already know how to do and that it needs to be done? Often, I can get almost all the way through a lot of these things I've been procrastinating on just by doing the easy stuff. This is Good. Okay, so my listeners, easy stuff if your kitchen's a disaster. I promise your garbage bags

overflowing. Your garbage can. We just take out the trash. Maybe there's trash actually on the counter. That's easy. You're just, it's like, you don't have to do the whole kitchen, whether you're like, I have to organize my closet. What if you just hang the clothes that fell off the hanger on the bottom back on the hanger? You don't have to do a whole thing. We're just doing, this is really, good. So that's the question I ask myself. Sometimes we wait. We wait for the easy stuff. We absolutely do. We start with the hard. Yeah, we think, no, I need to put all my time and energy into the hard stuff. But the hard stuff is being obscured. I don't know it. I don't understand it because there's all this easy stuff in front of me. So the question that I ask myself, anytime I feel stuck, okay? And it's this step two question, which is, what do I already know?

has to be done. I don't necessarily always enjoy doing it. I don't necessarily not sweat when I do it. Like it might be something I don't enjoy and that is hard work, but I already know it has to be done because the reason we're procrastinating

is the idea that there's going to be so many decisions that I'm going to have to make. That's, I'm not ready to make those decisions. So let me get stuff out of the way that's decision-free that I already know has to be done. Even if it takes me an hour to do this one thing, that daunting project is going to be so much less daunting once I've done that. And getting started, it's the hardest part. Absolutely. So when you're doing something that feels so easy that maybe it's not even worth it, like it's not even going to make a difference,

still start there. Yes. Because you've, you've, that's the hardest part. That idea that this isn't going to make a difference is the reason you're procrastinating. It's this idea. You're overthinking. You are over-analyzing to the point where you're causing yourself to be stuck. And so this is an action. I need to move forward. It is moving forward to go ahead and take out the trash. Because if this kitchen was ever clean, the trash would have to be gone. And so even though it's deeing the dishwasher. It feels not worth it. This idea of my actions have to be worth my time is a very backfiring mentality that causes procrastination. Like I, this isn't worth my time. You know, like, I'm not sure how this is going to go. So I don't want to do it because what if it's not worth my time? What if it's a waste of time? And yet all the time I'm perfectly done. So why would I bother? thinking about it, I'm waste, I'm legitimately for a fact wasting time. Totally.

By having that conversation in my head, where if I go ahead and do the thing, then I find out, oh, it was worth my time. It's always worth my time to do the easy stuff because the easy stuff has to be done anyway if I'm ever going to get the project done. So good. Okay. Give me step three. Give me step three.

Girl, I'm excited. This is my favorite. Okay. This one is very transformational for me. and forbidding people. And I call this non-committal experimentation. Okay. So a lot of times people will be like, oh, just try.

Just try. Okay. And I'm like, well, it feels like trying has a result of either succeeding or failing. Yeah. And so, and if I fail, then it feels like I didn't try correctly or I didn't try hard enough. And instead, I'm saying what I'm, I'm doing right now is noncommittally experimenting. I am finding out what might work. And the noncommittal is really important. That means I don't have to know ahead of time that this is going to

work. It is a valid, valuable use of my time to experiment to find out if it works or not. and I'm doing a legitimate, I am making legitimate progress by non-committally experimenting. I'm not saying that this is the way to do it. I'm not saying I'll ever do it this way again. I am literally just experimenting. This, this sounds exciting. I want examples. So for my listeners, they've got a messy kitchen.

They've got crap all over the counter. Who knows what's in the pile. It's papers, it's bills, it's random gifts. and Amazon boxes, they totally forgot what they ordered and it's going to be Christmas morning, but they don't want to open it just in case because they don't want to have a great. What does non-committal experimenting look like in this case? So in this case, it is, I mean, like this is the situation, right? Like this is, you hear this from people.

I hear this to people. I've watched all your videos. I've listened to all the podcast, right? Like, they know all the information and they're just not sure that it would work. Oh, this is what would happen if I try. that. I would get distracted when I take it there now. I would, you know,

fizzle out. I've got whatever. And I often tell people, experiment. See if it works. Try my decluttering process for the purpose of proving it right or wrong. Like even if

your motivation is to say she's wrong, this would never work. As long as you're just saying, she's wrong, this would never work, and the pile is still there, you're still procrastinating. But if you try it, even if it doesn't work, which it does, but even if it doesn't work, you've actually made progress because now you know it doesn't work. And now you move into the next thing that you experiment with the next thing that you're trying with information that you didn't have before.

This is good. Okay, because I will say things like, just try a basket or open that Amazon package, take the stuff out and use that empty box as your action folder and put your papers in there that you have to deal with. And people will say, I'll forget about it or everyone will just toss everything else in there and it'll get lost. And there's all these reasons of why it won't work. But this allows you to fail. So it's like, well, see, just try it. You've got nothing to lose. Yeah, non-competally experiment. just for the purpose of finding out if it does work for you.

Because once you've done it, then you know that it does or doesn't work. And then that's going to give you powerful information to then determine what's the next thing that you're going to try. Yeah. This is so good. Okay. I don't know how to experiment with making my book edits. I don't know what that's going to look like. But it's a mentality.

Okay. Because here's the thing, too, as you were saying, Like you're telling people, just try the basket. Just try the thing. When the result of what I'm going to do is either success or failure, and success is good and failure is bad, it feels like I have to know ahead of time, or I have to agree with you ahead of time, or I have to have thought through what could happen and how I'm going to react and all of that before I do it. And that's procrastinating.

but noncommittally experimenting with the exact same thing means I can go ahead and do this thing but I don't have to agree with Cass. I don't have to know how it's going to work out. It's literally for the purpose of experimenting. And so for you with your book edits, I had an epiphany. I can just duplicate the document and then use that as my experiment like with making some of the edits and keep the original one just in case I don't like my

experiment so that I'm not wrecking anything and I'm not sure yeah it's just you might you might be really really on to something here Dana I think I am and I know this because this is how this could apply to everything this is how I talk myself into doing I naturally get overwhelmed I am an overthinker. I look at a big daunting thing and I have big dreams or I have obligations or I have things that I really, really, really want. And this is how I got started, Cass. Like, I know this. I had done so much research on how to start a blog back in 2009 when blogs were new. I had done so, I had gathered so many things. I had figured out the very best way. Do you know how I got started? non-committal experimentation because I started in a moment where I was like, okay, I'm going to throw out

everything I've learned, which did have value. Okay. I used that over the years. But in the moment when I started, I was starting a secret, temporary, anonymous blog about getting my house under control for the purpose of being able to learn about blogging. And that's when things actually both, changed in my home, but also I got started on this thing I was dreaming of doing. That has ultimately turned into the thing I do with my life, which is ridiculous that this is what I teach. Like, I would never have believed you. But if I had waited until I had figured out that this was what I was going to teach, I would never have done it because that wouldn't have made any sense. But because I was noncommittally experimenting and saying, you know what, I'm just seeing

how to get traffic. I am just seeing how to, you know, write a post, whatever. Because I was just experimenting. I actually went ahead and did it and then it turned into something. I'm thinking this is how I started organizing too. It was just like I'm going to just try something for fun and with no expectations. It's probably not going to work, but you never know. I'm going to see if this is better. Oh, that's not better. I'm going to try this instead. Oh, that didn't work. Hey, this actually does work. And then it took all the pressure off because there was no failure. There was only like, okay, this is good. But that's how you ended up making your, yeah, changing your home. Was that you were noncommittally experimenting. You don't have to say, I think Dana's way is the greatest way. I think Cass's way is the greatest way. I'm going to blah, blah, blah. That doesn't matter. You just try something. If it sounds like something that you're like, maybe and then you start spinning out on all the reasons why it wouldn't work. I'm going to try it.

I'm going to try some version of it. I'm going to try to come up with my own. Yes. Yeah. This is good. But the pressure. I like that you said the word pressure because that is my goal for this book. It feels like a book about procrastination is going to make, is going to add to my pressure.

Right. Like it's going to be about productivity. And I am already overwhelmed. I am already doing so much. that the thought of adding more on to what I'm doing. Yeah. It just shuts me down before I even get started. It's causing the procrastination.

And instead, when you are counting it as legitimate anti-procrastination progress to do these three decision-free steps, you're getting started with no pressure. It relieves pressure to start this way. So good. Okay. Step four is plan. Now, is this like a detailed plan? Is this like a step by step plan?

It is a step by step plan. However, it is so much smaller than it was when you were over here looking at this big problem. And can we put on look and can we put with our checklist? Can we put the things we've already done so we can check it off? Do whatever you want to do, right? But the goal for that is I've already looked, so now I'm here. And then I have done the easy stuff. Often that gets me here.

And I have non-competent. middlely experimented. So I know things now that I didn't know before when I thought I needed to make my plan. I didn't know what I was dealing with. I didn't understand this. And it was a huge problem. Now, I'm already this far and I'm making a plan about a much smaller, less intimidating thing that I fully understand because I am in the middle of it already. I'm looking at my real situation and I'm dealing with that. So when I make a plan, the key for the plan is writing down the smallest completable steps. Okay?

So you take it from something like, let's say that it's, you know, buying a plane ticket. Okay, buying a plane ticket. So that is, feels like it's the step. But there are so many small,

completable steps before you ever get to that. Looking up, prices is its own thing, okay? Opening up the search engine. That's its own thing. Like, taking an appointment with a travel agent. Yes, asking, sending a, so instead of it's like, oh, I need to find a travel agent. Instead, you say, I'm going to text my friend who travels and ask her for her travel agent's number. That is the smallest completable step. And so we're doing things in a way where I am legitimately making forward progress with each and everything that I do. That's good. So if it's your, if it's your room, it's literally you're getting trash bags.

Yes. If you're, you're going to get a donateable donation box. You're literally going to find five pieces of trash. Easy, peasy. Maybe you empty the dish for trash. You're going to, yeah, all that. Empty the dishwasher. Exactly. Yeah. So good. Okay. Step. Step five, the final step. Is this just celebrate? I don't know. What is what is step five? It's decide what finishing looks like. Because you get to decide. Here's the thing. So many things that you're procrastinating on are actually going to be done with step three. Like you're going to be able to noncommittally experiment and be like, oh, that was easier than I thought. I'm done. But even if you have worked through things, you're going to decide what is this going to look like in the

end. Am, you know, you've just written a book. There comes a point where you have to say, this book is done. And could I think of 50,000 more things to put in it? Probably will over the next however many years. Oh, I should have said this. I should have added this. And there comes a point where you have to say, I am done. There comes a point where, you know, let's say, you know, one of the examples that I use in the book for what the process looks like is starting a cupcake business. You know, well, as you have experimented with that, as you have, you know, gone through the five steps, which I talk about what that could look like, at some point you say, okay, now that

I know the things that I have learned and I have made the progress and in the position that I am in now, I'm going to decide what it looks like for me to say. say, I have started this business. I now have a cupcake business because you're going to have learned, do I want to go through the process to get all the permissions and do all the things I have to do to set up at the farmer's market? Or do I actually just want to sell to friends and just let them know, hey, I'm making cupcakes for birthday parties? Do I want to have a refrigerator on my front porch and, you know, make whatever sounds fun for me to make that week. But you learn all of that as you go through the process. And so the finish line is saying this, I've decided, this is what it

looks like. Can it change? Absolutely. Are there some things that we don't get to decide the finish line? Absolutely. Right. And those are the ones that the finish line is already, it's already designated. Right. Like you, there are certain things you have to do. But for your mom and her situation and traveling, as she's gone through this process, she's going to get to the point where she decides, okay, what does it look like to have achieved this goal of traveling? It may mean I take two trips I want to hit Europe and South America. And those are the ones. This is what I'm going to do.

Okay. And you have that. This is what I can afford. This is all of this. This is the finish line. I'm going to count. this as being done. Or you say, okay, I loved that. It was as fun as I thought it was going to be. I want to keep doing this. Now I know things that I didn't used to know. So now my finish line is to say,

I'm going to continually save up for trips. And as soon as I hit this amount, I'm going to start planning the next trip that I'm going to take. You know, I mean, like you decide what that looks like. I mean, look at your business. That's so good. like look at your business you decide what your finish line is like what do i want to do you know we don't have that option and everything that we do if you have a job that they may decide where their finish line is on this project that you have to do but so many things we get to decide the finish line this is really good i'm thinking about my mom because her dream is so big to travel the world what does that even look like there's a what a hundred and ninety three countries you

can actually travel to that's crazy she's 70s that's not happening. But what if she decides it's traveling to every continent? Guess what? She's already been in North America. Woo! Check, check. She's already been to Europe. Check, check. She's already got two. Is Antarctica a continent? Not the point. Yes, it is. Maybe not that one. Maybe maybe nice continent. The point is, man, she's taken something crazy huge and she's able to redefine the parameters. But you're right, she has to do the other steps first. Yes. Yeah. And my listeners, you get to decide when your kitchen is good enough and organized enough. And it might not look like Pinterest or your dream that you had, but that's okay.

Well, that's what I always say. You know, I had this vision of what I thought I was working toward when my house was a disaster. I thought I was working toward people walking in and going, wow, this is amazing. And instead, as I actually made my house functional, I got to the, the point where I realized, oh, actually, this is great. Because I can do the things I want to do now and not be held back by my house. And it changed and shifted over time to where I went, this is great. This is the goal. Yeah. So, and you know why? Because step three, you're right. Step three is the fun one, isn't it? It is. Non-committal experimentation might just be genius.

And I love this. Okay, Dana K. K. White, talking with you is always an absolute pleasure. And while my listeners were listening to this, they were taking action on their home to. So I'm going to ask you for two things. One, can you give them a mini challenge before you go? Something they can do in the next five minutes that will push the needle forward for them. And then let them know where they can pre-order your amazing book. And I hope you hit the list, my love. That's always the goal.

Thank you. Okay, so what can you do right now? You had something in mind or that has come to mind as we've talked about procrastinating. We've talked about business. We've talked about dreams. We've talked about any situation, even if you're like, oh, that couldn't possibly be one where the process would work. Whatever situation popped in your head as the situation where you procrastinate, I want you to look.

I want you to look at that box of stuff that you've avoided dealing with. I want you to open the email and say, I am going to count it as success. I will have started legitimately if all I do is read through this email. If all I do is look inside that box. If all I do is check to find out when my passport expires. do one purposeful but non-committal looking like you're not going to do anything with it and experience the power of removing the unknown, of having actually started, of having actually taken that first step because that is the first step.

This is good. I'm thinking right now, every day I'm like, I'm going to work out. You know what? I'm just going to go in my little home gym and I'm just going to look at my free weights. Do I have any that are light enough? because I'm like, oh, it's going to be, just going to, I'm just going to look. Do I have rubber bands? I know I have a rebounder. Is there anything on it? I'm just going to go in there and look. Yeah. Because you have to do that anyway. Give myself a gold star. Right. Yes. Yeah. So good. Getting started is the hardest. And I love that you have made getting started. All you need is your eyes. All you need is your eyeballs. So, incredible. incredibly helpful. Thank you, Dana. Where can they pre-order your book? I'm going to put a link, of course, in the show notes, but where would be your ideal favorite place that they would go and

pre-order this? Anywhere books are sold. You can go to Dana K.white.com slash procrastinate. We've got strategy sessions where I have talked through what the process would look like with four people who've already read the book. One of them is working on a quilt that she's been working on for three years and she just cannot figure out how to finish that. We've got somebody who had some savings accounts related to a prior job and now it's been a number of years and she's like, I have got to move those over. So we talk through what the process looks like there. We talk to someone who is moving a loved one in or who needs to move a loved one into assisted living. That's a huge daunting situation. And then we talked to someone who has 30,000 pictures from a former stage of

life that are on all different kinds of thumb drives and computers. And we talk about, okay, let's work through the anti-procrastination process on how to actually tackle this project that is so overwhelming to you, you can't even get started. That one feels giant. Yeah. It is. is. This is good. Okay. So exciting. I hope my listeners are feeling as motivated as I am right now. I want to jump off this podcast and go look at things and make a list of all the things I've been procrastinating and then just take that first step because how easy is that? Take the step before you make the list. I'm going to take the step before I make the list. It's right, Dana. You're so good. As always, what an absolute pleasure. This has been, thank you so, so.

much. I'm just so proud of you. And you, yeah, your systems work. The no mess method works. And so that's how I know this is going to be just as effective. Thank you so much. I have to take a second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Cozy Earth. Years ago, I switched to cozy Earth bedding. LaMettella. Before then, I was using the Jersey cotton sheets, the ones from Walmart. I had these flannel things that made me sweat to death. But I decided. to give real grown-up big girl sheets a try. Went to Cozy Earth and now I am hooked. Let me tell you, I'm a sheet snob because not only are they so soft, they're temperature regulating. No matter how many times I wash them, they always get softer. They actually come with a 10-year warranty,

which is boncadonks. And if you want to give it a try, they have bedding and towels. They have bath sheets, the size of a bus. Okay? Everything that you can. ever need to feel like luxury without the luxury prices. So go to cozyearth.com and use my coupon code Clutterbug to save 20% off right now. That's cozyEarth.com slash clutterbug or use the coupon code Clutterbug to save 20% today. Just like always when I talk to Dana and I learned something new from her, I'm like, well, that seems like common sense. And yet I had never thought of it.

It's a different way of looking that absolutely. when you're talking about procrastination stops the overwhelm. Every single day for the past week, I have been procrastinating even opening up the email from my editor. I'm terrified. I haven't even wanted to look at it. And now with the permission to just look, with that easy step one, I feel like all the weight has just melted off my shoulders. I feel like actually excited because I get to check something off. And I don't know why I didn't think of this before. It is in our nature to blow everything up into like the biggest possible thing it could be. And it's in our nature to overthink, to overanalyze, to have all these expectations and to think of everything as

it's either going to fail or succeed. But I love that Dana's five-step method for procrastination takes all of that off. And just non-committal experimentation, I know this works, but why didn't I think of this before? You guys, this is so life-changing. I want you to give this a try. What can you experiment with today? How can you try something out? See if it works. Test something in your home or in your life without the fear of failing. Because there is no failure when you're just experimenting. You're just gathering information. That's all. You're seeing what works for you and what doesn't. This is so, so good. Okay, again, the five steps are, just look, do the easy stuff, non-committal experimentation, make a plan, and I forget number five, but it was probably real good. Number five is redefine

what finished looks like. So let me know in the comments below how you can, you can, redefine what finish looks like today. Like what did you do today? And whatever it was is good enough. It is done. Let me know in the comments below what you accomplished and how you're redefining that as actually done. And also I'm super curious what the number one thing is you've been procrastinating. Because let's share. It could be a dream. It could be opening an email. Though that doesn't seem, but that's me. I'm procrastinating that. It could be. Something as simple as emptying the dishwasher or cutting the grass. There's no shame. There's no judgment. There is just a community of clutter bugs here to support you. Let's take a second for my

favorite part of the podcast. Talk to Cass. And we're going to start with Fernanda. Hey, Cass, this is Fernanda from Atlanta, Georgia. I wanted to request an episode topic. Please talk us through any tactics or strategies you use when you write your phenomenal books or do any sort of content that's like on a computer that maybe you don't super want to do but you need to that kind of procrastination. I've heard all your episodes on procrastination, but I really feel like there are some golden nuggets that you are keeping from us that we need to know because we have those struggles too. And I just love your content. I feel so encouraged. I just put it on some AirPods, listen to you, get some stuff done. And I've heard you say that sometimes in your

real life, you're too much. But I think that's what makes you just enough for all of us online that tune in to your resources. So thank you, Cass, for what you do. Please keep doing it. It is so encouraging, and I can't wait for each new episode to come out each week. hope to hear more tips on content procrastination soon. Thank you. I love this. This is such a good question. So I will just, maybe I'll do a whole episode sometime. Some of it you might not like. But I'm going to tell you what I do, especially when it comes to writing my book or any script or anything that's super overwhelming and I don't know where to start. Typing seems hard. So what I do oftentimes is like like a voice to text. Have you heard of this? You probably have because you were young and hip and cool.

I'm old. I had to like how to, I had to Google literally, how to talk to text. And there's lots of different ways that you can do it, whether it's a notes app or just opening anything. And I will just ramble like I'm doing right now. And then I will take all that rambling text. And now all I have to do is edit. And editing is a lot easier than creating. So I brain dumped up with my voice. And then I transform that when it's turned into text through magical things. Hope that's helpful. Give it a try. Also, check out Dana K. White's new book on how to overcome procrastination.

I feel like this her five-step system is the solution no matter what you're procrastinating on. Now let's hear from Amy. Hi, Cass. My name is Amy, and I'm from Texas. and normally I would just sit down and write something out so that I don't just ramble, but I'm just going for it today. I just wanted to say that I'm pretty sure that if I ever met you, we would be best friends. And I just love everything that you do.

I save all of your podcasts for doing the dishes because that is the vein of my existence. But you've changed my life, and I still live in a mess. but you're helping me to accept who I am as a late diagnosed ADHD person and somebody who struggles with depression and fibromyalgia and family and other things. I just wanted to thank you. So, yeah, keep on being awesome. Oh, thank you, Amy. I'm so proud of you.

Thanks for making that message. And honestly, get it, girl. You know what? It's the little steps. We all do this thing where we, you're like, I'm still living in a mess. First of all, appreciate how far you've come. And second of all, know that you're not going to ever feel like you've got there until one day you've woken up and looked around to be like, did I finally?

Like, that's what happens, right? You just keep making these tiny little progress steps, find five things to go today. And then before you know it, it's like it is. It's this miraculous transformation. You just wake up one day and you're like, I've, I've hit the top of the mountain. I've arrived. My house is now tidy and organized. It's crazy pants, but it's true.

And last but not least, let's hear from Amber. Hi there, Cass. My name is Amber. And I love watching your podcast, but I have one thing that's bothering me. Behind you, it says cardstock, printer, and lined. What does lined mean? Question mark. Also, I am 100% a cricket, and the other people in my house are simply not.

One is an artist, and he loves all of his crap just dropped everywhere, and the other has his own version of, I guess he's a bee. I don't know. Anyway, I'm struggling to mesh all these together, and find even furniture pieces to help out. Any advice on how to merge three different styles altogether? Thanks. Sorry so much.

You're not going to like my answer, but first, lined is lined paper. So my kids go to school and they, you know, have lined paper that I always buy it in bulk for their schoolwork to go in their binders. So the extra is in here in case they need it or in case I ever need lined paper. Anyways, here's the golden clutterbug rule. Crickets always lose. No, I'm just joking, but I'm really not.

Because the golden rule is we always default to the visual organizer and the non-detailed system. So butterfly is the default organizing system when you have multiple people. But that doesn't mean that everything has to be like in your face. You can still make things butterfly friendly by having big labels, by having hooks instead of hangers, taking off closet doors, but still making it appeal to you as a cricket by giving you that visual simplicity with like all matching colored containers or trying to really simplify the visual distraction by having like monotone or putting things in three, fives, and seven so it doesn't feel like clutter.

Even putting things in a tray can to your eye make it feel like it's one thing, but you're still leaving things visual for that visual organizer out on the counter. So if you go to clutterbug.com and right under the quiz, you'll see that there's an e-book called What Clutterbug Are You? And inside that e-book, there are links to a bunch of Pinterest pages for each different bug. Take a look and get inspiration for different butterfly-friendly or be. friendly solutions and see if there's one that really resonates with you. Don't go out and buy things. You can really do some noncommittal experimentation by actually just adding labels or taking the closet

doors off your entrance way or putting some 3M hooks on the wall and see if people use them. So you're not doing things permanent. You're trying, you're testing it out before you have to actually commit to making a big change to your home. You guys so much for tuning in today. I just want to let you know how proud I am of you. I hope you made big progress today and I'll see you guys next time.