Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - The REAL Cost of your Clutter with The Declutter Hub | Clutterbug Podcast # 175

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Today we are discussing the REAL cost of your clutter, which may not be what you think! You deserve a clean and clutter-free home, and you can get there with a little self-love and a little decluttering.  Learn more from Ingrid and Lesley at The Declutter Hub here: https://declutterhub.com/     You can find more Clutterbug content here: Website: http://www.clutterbug.me YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clutterbug TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/    #clutterbug #podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, clutterbugs. Welcome back to the clutterbug podcast. I am very excited about today's interview because we have Ingrid and Leslie from the declutter hub all the way from the other side of the world across the pond, as they say. And we're going to be talking about the emotional cost of clutter and really like the true cost even more than just emotional cost of clutter. So this is an exciting one. And it's also the first time I've interviewed two people. once. Hello, thanks for being here. Oh, thank you so much. It's lovely to be here, Cass. Thank you for inviting us. Yes, we're absolutely delighted. Thank you so much. We can't wait to share this discussion with you. So thank you for having us on. Yeah, it's wonderful. You have an incredible podcast. I've been watching it all yesterday and all today. I don't know where you've been my whole life, but this is, I'm very hooked now. So I actually listened to your podcast talking about the cost of clutter. And I was nodding the whole time because as my listeners know, I really struggled with clutter for the majority of my life. So I have felt it firsthand, that sort of shift.

And now that I work with clients, the number one thing I hear all the time is I don't want to let things go. I don't want to waste the money that I spent on those things. So I think this is an important conversation we're going to have today. And you're going to share. share with us all the ways that it's actually costing us to keep these things. But I want to just let my listeners know who are listening at home. Please get up and start finding things to go. So while you're listening to this, take action on your home. Go under your kitchen sink.

Go in your closet. We're not pulling everything out and sorting into piles. I want you to look for things and trust your gut that you know, you don't love, you don't use, and you do not need in your home. Okay, so let's jump in. I'm excited because I know the biggest cost that my clutter was costing me and it's probably not what people think, but I want to hear from you. Do you want to jump into like what you hear, what you see, how is it costing us to keep excess in our home? I think that to get started, it's interesting there, Cass, because you talked about underneath the kitchen sink and that's a classic example.

of where on a basic level, things really cost us a lot of things because we buy duplicates, right? And cleaning products is a big one. It really is because we kind of think, oh, there's my grandfather clock going off. Sorry about the dingin in the background. I love it. Everything else is cut down, but not the grandfather clock. And so I think we buy duplicates and cleaning products is a big one because we buy those. We think because we think automatically by buying cleaning products,

our house is going to miraculously clean itself. So duplicates are a big one and there's so much wrapped up in cleaning products. That's the first one, really. Same, I think, also goes for toiletries. We see something on offer. It's, you know, buy to get one free. And we think, oh, that's handy. But what we don't realize is that actually our taste change.

We might want to try out something new. And then all these things get stuck in the back of a cupboard. And then we run out of space. And then what happens is that things start to live outside of cupboards on the sides, on the floor, on the counters, because we can't put it away. And all these things, the back of cupboard, sit there, gathering dust, being unused. And toiletries and cleaning products are both expensive items. Yes, it's a couple of dollars here and a couple of dollars there. But if you then transfer this into makeup or perfumes where we also have a lot of, those are expensive items.

and that's a lot of lost money. I remember in my clutteredness, I was, it was like this scarcity mindset. So the more stuff I had around me, the more I felt I needed. Does this make sense? It was a weird thing. But I would go to the store around Christmas and all of their hand soaps would be on sale. We have a place called Bath and Body Works and I would buy like 15 hand soaps. This is going to last me all year.

And then flash forward two months later, the hand soap would be empty. And I'd add that to the grocery list. Like I would never think to shop where I had stored everything. And so it really wasn't saving me money. It wasn't saving me anything. It was just costing me space now and all that wasted money. And you don't really know that until you start letting go of the excess and realizing, wow, why do I have more money in my bank account?

Because I'm not rebuying over and over. It's boncadogs, isn't it? It's bonka dogs. Exactly. And that whole shopping from home thing, you know, once you get a little bit of control of your clutter, so things like toiletries, cleaning products, it's hard because they are usable and they have got a purpose, but you just need to know where they are. And so you can make an inventory of it.

And then you can start doing that kind of shopping from home scenario, can't you, that you talk about. Exactly. And I used to think in my most cluttered state that I just need to get organized. I would say this to myself, I just need to pull everything out. and kind of take inventory of what I have, and then I won't feel so chaotic anymore. That was something that was an impossible task at the time. I didn't have the space to pull everything out.

I didn't even know where everything was. How could I wreck my whole house in the guise of getting my life together? I just ended up making a disaster and then shoving it all back in because I was so overwhelmed. And so we start with just opening a cabinet and finding things that can go. And that's what I hope what you're doing while you're listening to this. Okay. What is another way that our clutter costs us? I can't wait.

I hope you dabble on the one that it costs me the most. No, that's what I'm like, which one is that? Yeah. I'm going to go in. I'm going to go in, Ingrid, I'm going to go in with relationships. Not with I'm trying to go deep on that one day. That could be relationships because it does because we feel ashamed, you feel guilty, people are constantly berating us

and it affects our relationships with our friends, even, our children, our partners, our parents. And so I think that clutter can have quite a deep impact on relationships. And so I thought you said that yours might be a more unusual one. Is that the one that it was, Cass? It wasn't, but honestly, that's a close second. And it wasn't, I don't think what you think. I honestly feel I got really close to wanting to leave my husband multiple times during our relationship in the beginning when it was so cluttered because I was so resentful that he wasn't helping me clean. And I think this is something I hear all the time. And he was also resentful, because the majority of the mess was mine. And that's the truth. But I didn't see that. And it was very much like, I clean all day. He doesn't help. Everything's a disaster. He's coming home from work. You've been home all day. The house is

trashed. And it was, I know it affects other ways in relationships, right? Because we can't maybe invite people over or we're we're working all the time. But that resentment towards your spouse, sometimes even towards your children, towards your house in general, is very toxic, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. And it really does have its toll. It plays a big part. And so their relationships is a big one. And then once the clutter starts to go and people start to come together, you know, often partners come on board with the decluttering process and then it brings them together even more. So there's definitely a positive benefit, I think. We love, you know, we're people in our membership and we have husband and wife teams and we love that more than anything because we know that that's the perfect scenario to

get to get stuff done. So relationships is a big one that we see all the time. I mean, I think it is really important that when you are in a house, it's not always only your clutter, you know, clutter attracts clutter. I mean, you know that. And when, especially, children have never been taught how to tidy up or how to declotter and they don't learn those skills. You can't say to a child, you need to tidy up your room if there's no cells or boxes or baskets or they've never even been taught how to categorize and organize. So you have to really teach that from the ground up. And you can't then say, well, you're not helping if they don't know how. So you have to be really specific as well with what kind of help you need instead of nobody's

helping me here. okay, but what is the help that you need and be very specific in your instructions? And I think it's all about setting a good example yourself. You know, a lot of people have tried to declotter before, but then just couldn't stick with it or after a couple of hours. Well, no, I cannot do this. I can't see a difference. It's something long term. It's like you can't do a sprint.

You have to do a marathon and you have to build it up slowly, but surely and do the learning along the way. and when you're learning yourself, then you can teach other people. And then other people go, oh, actually, she's really serious about this. Or he's really serious about this. It feels nicer in this house. Wow. Okay. I actually maybe I can come on board.

And we see, I see that a lot as well. A lot of the times people say, oh, my partner is not, it's not on board. He doesn't want to do this, whether it's a male or a female. But then as soon as it really starts to stick and the work gets done longer, the partner does go all of a sudden, oh, here's a few things that I thought you could add to your decluttering pilot. And it's like, oh my gosh, miracles. Miracles. Miracles are happening here. And that's really exciting. Yeah. Yeah, my husband declotters all the time now without me saying anything at all because he saw the benefits. I had to start with me and my stuff. And then the rest, everyone else kind of like.

like followed along. But I also love how you talked about, you can't just say to your children, clean your room. That's what my mother did. That's what everyone did. And I as a child thought cleaning meant not seeing your stuff. And so when it was time to clean my room, I would just shove everything under my bed and shove things in drawers and shove it in a closet. And I think maybe that's where my ladybugness came in from. And I grew up thinking that's how you clean as well. And so I didn't actually know where anything was. Things would look tidy, but things would be in boxes or shoved here and shoved there. And then to find what I needed, I had to pull everything out and make a big freaking mess again. And I was stuck on this cycle of messing and tidying, messing, tidying, messing,

tidy. And it wasn't even tidying. Messy hide, messy hide, messy hide. That cost me more than I could ever. I didn't even know. I really didn't know. And how could I possibly teach my children how to do it when I didn't know how to do it. Yeah. I think that's such a big light bulb moment for so many people because people know that they weren't taught as children and resent that, but then don't teach their own children and think that kids are just going to understand that by osmosis. And so we're like, you really need to break it down.

You need to explain what that means, you know, tidying your room means this. It means bringing all the stuff downstairs. It means putting things away. It means finding a home and this is the home and this is how we're going to do it. going through that whole cycle with your children. And then all of a sudden the kids come on board and it's so much, but honestly, Ingrid, people just don't get that, do they at all.

They're like, oh, yeah, of course. Like, we're repeating the cycles over and over. And so it's so, so important to get these kids on board like at such a young age, you know, so that it's part of their daily routines in the same way that it needs to be ours. Now, I think it's well that you really teach children life skills. And, I mean, those are the skills they can take with them

You know, when they go off to school and to college or to university and set up their own place, I think it's really, you know, such a fantastic skill to hand over to your family. And I think, you know, the people that join us in our membership, we teach them from the ground up. And it's like, oh, I'm learning so much. I'm having so many likable moments. It's absolutely fantastic. I think the biggest life skill I can teach my children is to put things. in the trash or to put things in the donate and to not feel guilt or shame about it.

To kind of disconnect that materialism, like we have a lot of shame. We buy something where someone gives us a gift and for some reason we feel bad letting it go even though we don't use it and love it. And that's really the root of clutter problems when we think about it. And if we can teach our children that it's not a big deal, we're supposed to, just like we're supposed to vacuum our floor. We're supposed to get things out of our house on a regular basis, just like we wash the dishes. We donate clothes on a monthly basis. Or we let go of old toys. They'll never struggle like I struggled. Right. It was hard. It was hard to get my mindset to like, I don't, I'm not supposed to keep everything. Before we share what the biggest way my clutter cost

me was I have to thank Cozy Earth for sponsoring today's podcast. Cozy Earth is the best-selling bamboo sheet set. I love this sheet set. Plus, their luxury pillows and their blankets. You know, I'm cheap. I'm not a big spender, but I definitely want to treat myself to gorgeous soft bedding. And I love that they have temperature regulating sheets because I get hot, you guys. And I feel like, it feels like casual elegance climbing into this. bed at night in cool, beautiful white sheets. No matter how many times I wash them, they're always bright white and super soft. It's a gift to myself. It really is. So when you're thinking about refreshing your home this spring and summer, honestly, think about new fresh bed linens.

And right now, Cozy Earth has an exclusive coupon just for my listeners up to 35% off site wide when you use the code clutterbug. So go to cozyearth.com and use the promo code clutterbug to save up to 35% off. We've still not got down to where to. I know. I want to make a suggestion list. Because I was thinking maybe it is time. Because what we see a lot with clutter is that how much time it takes just to get ready to get

prepared to get your clothes to rummage through dirty laundry or clean laundry or something to get dressed to find your phone and your keys to organize anything when you don't know where anything is even to throw a small get-together or a party if you want to do that at your house and you're like I know I've got the candles and the and the plates and the napkins but I don't know so what I'll do is I'll buy it new, costing more money again, and then I've got it, and then you've got the leftovers that get stuffed somewhere, and this is exactly how stuff ends up in all these different places, and we've seen it time and time again. Leslie and I are working as professional organizers already both for 13 years as well, and we've got them together the membership,

but we've seen it firsthand that stuff is everywhere. And, and, and, That is, I think, very, very time consuming. But just finding your keys, your phone, your purse, the kid's shoes, the lunchbox, anything like that. If a place is chaotic, time just fritters away and all these things that should not take that long. So I think for me as well, time is up there. Yeah, that was it. Ingrid, you got it.

I had competition. I lost. It's a good cast. But it was, I didn't, you don't know it till you're out. You can't even understand till you're out. I was so exhausted, so busy all day long. I was running a home daycare. I had two little children of my own plus extra little children in my house. And I was, I'd have to clear to play a game with them. I'd have to clear to make lunch. I'd have to clear to. And then I'd have to clean up before the families came home. And then I'd have to make my family dinner. And then I'd have to make my family dinner. And they'd and clean up again. And I'd fall into bed every night. Like, how do people do this? I barely, I barely had time to shower. And you hear this from other mothers. You hear this from people. Like, I don't have time to watch a show, a movie. I'm on the weekends. I'd be, then I'd have to vacuum. Things would be disgusting. I'd have to wash everything and clean bathrooms. And I thought, people go out with friends. How?

How? What is wrong with me? Is it a time management issue? Do I need a plan or I used to buy plan or something's wrong here? And as I let things go and as I got organized, it was crazy. I like a Saturday and I look around and I ran the vacuum on Thursday because I had time. I have nothing to do. Or at night, you know, I'm like I don't have to pick up. up anything. I'd hours, hours back in my day, hours back in my day because I had less and I was organized and it changed my life. I had time to relax. I was actually bored because I went from this hectic, chaotic state of always rushing to like, I have nothing to do right now. I'm still running a daycare, still having little kids. I started a business on the side, which grew, into the business that I have today. And I would never have been able to do that because I was wasting so much time managing my mess. That's what I was doing. I was managing the mess, shuffling from space to space, looking for things. There wasn't one day where I didn't lose something and have to dig and find it.

And then putting things back, all just trying to, just trying to, yeah, just nightmare. And you don't know until you know, until you know, right? Yeah. Exactly. And I think all of those things that we've spoken about, whether it's time, whether it's financial pressure, whether it's relationships, all of the things that we've mentioned, they all combine into a general sense of affecting our mental health and well-being. And that's what it's all about, all these things.

together are not great. They're all very negative emotions, aren't they? Feeling as if you've not got enough money, feeling as if you're not good enough in your relationship so that you can't hold it together as a mother or a daughter or a friend or whatever it is. You know, all of these things just make us feel down, you know, and you've gone on such a transformation, Kaz, and it's so lovely to see, do you know what I mean, that you just completely turned your life around? And that's what it's all about. And I think that when we're in it, we can't see a way out, can we? And so, but when we do, it's so transformative and so incredible to see. And I'll say to my clients, I'll say to them, I'll walk in and they're overwhelmed and

they're just like embarrassed and mortified and I'm standing in their home in their mess. And I would say to them, if you could trade all the things in your home that you don't use in love for a house that's effortlessly tidy, that feels peaceful, that's clutter-free, would you? And what do they always say? Oh, absolutely I would trade. Would you trade your junk for a house? Like, would you trade the stuff you don't even like for a house that feels peaceful? Everyone says yes. But that's what decluttering is, isn't it? We're trading the things that we're not using. We're not loving that are just excess. We're trading for a house that's clutter free and feels peaceful. And that's a mindset shift that I didn't understand in the beginning. Everything, felt like it was taking from me instead of me seeing it as trading for peace of mind. Yeah.

A lot of things what we say here is do you want the space or do you want the stuff? And people that are in a come into our world and hear that for the first time, they're almost like, wow, I'd never looked at it this way. You know, that's what it boils down to. And yes, of course, declotterings. can be hard and declotering can be tricky and you have to make choices and you have to step out of your own comfort zone to go through this and you have to do the quality over the quantity. You can't have 50 of everything. You're going to have to choose and say these are the five or ten

most important ones. But if you do that with everything, you see the volumes go down, the space starts to appear, everything starts to get home, a place for everything, everything in its place. And then it's like, oh, wow, this is incredible. I feel so much better. And I don't feel this constant pressure. And my house feels tidier. And I feel less embarrassed about letting people in. And I'm not constantly running around after myself.

And it's exactly what you're describing as well. That's one of the reasons why Leslie and I cast love our job so much. because a lot of people think that a professional organizer puts stuff in a bin back and that what we deal with is clutter. But what we deal with is mindset and just feeling so much better and clearing the clutter from your heads and you start to see things clearly. And everything comes into perspective. What's important for you. And it's no longer the stuff. but it's like oh wow i i suddenly have time for that hobby that was always i have all the stuff

but i never had the time to do it now i've got time to do it because i've got the space i've got the time and i'm feeling so much better because i'm doing something that i enjoy doing and i love spending time with the people that i want to spend time with yeah it's true and you know what else is surprising i was listening to your podcast um the cost of clutter and i was nodding away because i go into people people's homes and and declutter for them. And they think that the reason that they have a hard time letting go is because of the money. I hear this often. Do you hear this often? It's like the, they think it's about the money and that's not why they're letting it go. And yet the surprising thing I always find in people's homes and in their clutter. And so do you is forgotten money.

You said that. It's true. Gift cards. Money. I, check. that have never been deposited. I always find money when I'm decluttering someone's home. Or even we sell some of their bigger items. Like we sell the treadmill they haven't used in 10 years and now they have an extra $500. And they're like, can decluttering actually make us money? And the answer is yes. I think it's such an interesting thing that you talk about that. Cass. And this is something that we have a bit of a not a love-hate relationship with. Because that's a great example. So something like a treadmill or something big like that, of course it can make you money. But what we find quite a lot with people are in that money mindset.

And really it all boils down to feeling guilty about having wasted the money and so much wrapped up in that, right, in terms of money. But what we try and encourage is for people to make that mental shift into making decluttering the primary focus and not the making of money. Because the two things get wrapped up together, I think often. and then people want to de clutter, but also want to make money out of their clutter, and it holds them back. You know, we really, we're like, just think what's more important?

Because if it's just, you know, if it's a treadmill, absolutely. If it's something with real value, of course, we're not just saying get rid of it, but if it's a dress that's going to get your 99 pence on eBay, literally let it go and move forward and find that positivity in a different way, you know, feel comforted that you've given it to a charity

or a thrift shop and actually get to, way you want to be with decluttering because that's so much more beneficial than an extra 10 pounds in your pocket if we're being honest. So making that sort of money mindset shift is a big one, I think. And again, that's another light bulb that definitely goes on. It's just something that we feel quite strongly about, isn't it? It's true. You're right. I shouldn't even have said. I do hear that. It's almost like they see this. The treadmill. The big stuff. Yes, but you're right. They're seeing the stuff for the money that they spent on it. And there is this like, well, I don't have a lot of money. And so if I let this go, I'll have less money. And that is sort of the money's been spent.

It's already been wasted on buying something that you didn't use. So we just forgive ourselves. And we don't keep repeating that mistake and making it worse by now letting that stuff steal our space to and our piece of mind and our happiness and our time. It's stealing our time. And so that, do you find that's the hard? I find that's the hardest thing, especially if someone's struggling financially or has in the past is making that mindset shift that your stuff isn't money and it isn't, you're not wasting money by decluttering. Do you see that as one of the biggest struggles? Yes, definitely. And I think also that it's all has to do with realism, doesn't it? You know, sometimes people have to hear it to kind of make the think it through a little bit.

Because I think deep down sometimes they know, but they just don't want to know because it's like, oh yeah, I did spend the money. And I'm not going to get it back. And the longer an item stays in people's houses, sometimes it gets more money in there. It becomes more important and more money worth in their own head. But it's like it's still the same thing. you haven't worn it. And by just keeping it in your closet, you're just perpetuating the fact

that you made a mistake purchase and that it was a mistake that you bought it and you can beat up yourself over it every time you open your closet and you see that beautiful dress or that coat that you haven't worn. It's not going to change the fact that the money is gone. And we want to get rid of that eBay pile.

It's been in your bottom of your closet for six years. You know, let's just let it go. let's create this space, let's make it look nice, so you can see what you have, and also then, instead of wearing 20% of your clothes, 80% of the time, you can actually see all the things you do have, and that will impact the way you shop because you no longer shop for the same thing you buy over and over again, but you're going to go, actually, no, I have 12 of those already. I don't need another one, or if I really want this one, I'm going to need to let one or two others go because nobody has got gigantic houses, right? There's only very few that really have houses

that have unlimited storage. A house has the right amount of storage for the size of the house. If you're struggling with clutter, you just have too much clutter. It's not the problem that you don't have enough closets and cupboards and shelves. A house can only hold so much stuff. and my house, Leslie's got quite a large house. My house is a lot smaller than Leslie's. We have to make different decisions, right? So, of course, you know, I have not as much clutter as other people, but I still have stuff.

I'm not a minimalist by all means, but I still have things that I like. But everything lives in a certain place, lives in a certain cupboard, and I can find it when I need it. So I can make the most use of it when it's in my. in my world. And if I no longer need it, then it's like, okay, I can let that go and let somebody else get the rest of the life out of this item. Because if it's in my cupboard gathering dust, it's no good to anybody. And do you find your clients are surprised by how much has to go to really have that impact? Like, I got rid of 75, maybe even 80% of my things.

And when I'm decluttering for a client, if we're even doing a storage room, they're jaws dropping because I'm taking truckloads and truckloads and truckloads out. You don't realize how much you have till you start filling trash bags to go. And someone's like, well, I got rid of a whole bag today. Repeat that every day for a month and then you'll see a difference. Isn't it surprising? Yeah. How much we have. How much excess. It's like when we've done a session with a client, in a day, and we do a charity shop drop off or whatever, my car's full probably 10, 15, 20 bags, whereas I never see somebody rocking up at the charity shop with more than two bags at a time, because we can really go through them because there's something very empowering about being

with somebody or being accountable to somebody that we are able to make those decisions, but sometime you just need that little push. It might be through listening to a podcast. It might be by working with a professional organiser one-to-one, but we just need to to be a little bit empowered because we've got to get out of our own heads a little bit, don't we? And for me, and I try to make for my clients, it really is about standing up for yourself, isn't it? It's about like that self-confidence to actually say, I'm more important than this sweater or

this jacket or this bowl my mother gave me. My happiness is more important. I'm putting myself above this stuff. And for some reason, that almost feels wrong. It feels like we need to people please our stuff that somehow like putting our own needs above isn't. And I think it's harder sometimes for women as well. Because why are we people pleasing our stuff? Do you see this? Is this just me? But I see what clients are like, and when I say you're more, you deserve this. Your happiness is better, more important. than that $20 you spent 15 years ago, sometimes I'll get tears. Like, people will cry and they'll be like,

why can't they see that they're more important? Right? You're right. Yeah, the first step is kindness, isn't it? And being kind to yourself to and make it to allow yourself to make that mental leave and to know that there are other people just like you going through this and it can be done. But if you've lived with that for years, sometimes decades, it's hard to make that mental leap to think that it's ever going to change, particularly if you've been judged all your life or people are not supportive at home. It's, we all know what we want, but it's to get in there that's tricky, isn't it? And there's so many shifts. It's a, you know, for many people, it can be quite a long journey.

It's not as straightforward as we might think, you know. So, yeah, kindness is everything and kind of starts with ourselves. Yeah. So if you're looking, if you're listening to this and you're looking at all those cleaners under your sink and you're doing that mental tally that, oh, but this is worth like $100. You're worth more than $100. You're worth way more than $100. Put them in the bag.

Let them go. You are worth more than the $20 here, the $5 here, the $10, your peace of mind and your happiness. And that is such a empowering journey to make, to start thinking about yourself differently. and in your stuff differently and realizing like I deserve this and these I'm not nickel and diming myself to death because I am worth so much more than that. That really helped me stop seeing my stuff as money. Seeing it as like this is an act of loving myself decluttering. That's what I'm really doing. I'm loving myself because I deserve this. Absolutely. Good.

I know. Absolutely. I know. Yeah. Absolutely. In one room, it's like, we're like, yeah, it's really. Wonderful. Okay, well, thank you. I mean, this was great. It was, it was wonderful to meet you. I just could listen to you talk all day. Your voices are beautiful. Thank you for being here. But my listeners, you have an incredible podcast. And I hope everyone jumps over and listens to your podcast. And you can watch your podcast on YouTube, which is great too, just having you in the background. It's like having two friends while you're decluttering and while you're tackling your home. So please let my listeners know where they can find you and where they can maybe get some help from you as well. You can listen to the Declutter Hub podcast on any podcast player, Spotify, Amazon, Apple podcast, any podcast player,

just search for the Declutter Hub podcast. If you'd love to join our Facebook group, we've got a lovely Facebook group, so kind and so warm and supportive, also the Declutter Hub, emotions-based decluttering. And if you'd love to really take your decluttering to the next level, check out members.declutterhop.com.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for everyone listening. I hope you've filled a bag today. I hope you've stood up for your yourself and seeing the real cost of your clutter, whether it's time, whether it's relationships, it's costing you money. At the end of the day, though, it's costing you your happiness. And that is the most important thing. So fill a bag, my friends, and I will see you guys next time.