Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - The Secret Minimalists Won't Tell You (because it's not minimalism!) | Clutterbug Episode #340

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Struggling to declutter your home without it feeling cold, empty, or boring? In this episode, I sit down with Myquillyn Smith — author, home decor expert, and the mind behind The Nester — to talk all about house hushing, decluttering, and creating a soulful, cozy home you actually love. Myquillyn coined the term "house hushing," and in her brand new book (out August 25th!), she breaks it down into genius methods for quieting the visual noise in your home without sacrificing the beauty, coziness, and meaningful layers that make a house feel like you. We dig into backwards decluttering, quiet decorating, why every home has its own personality and soul, and how to actually stop stuff-shuffling into doom boxes forever (I'm looking at myself here). We also get into: ✨ Why "less stuff" doesn't have to mean "boring beige minimalism" ✨ How to find your home's holding zone without creating a new mess ✨ The difference between decorating and soulful styling ✨ Why a cabinet of curiosities might be the answer to displaying your sentimental stuff ✨ How your organizing style (Ladybug, Cricket, Bee, or Butterfly!) affects how you should hush your space If you've ever felt like your home needs to be either "minimalist" or "full of meaningful stuff" — but never both — this episode (and Myquillyn's book, House Hushing) is going to change how you think about your space completely. Follow Myquillyn on Instagram @thenester and grab her book, House Hushing, out August 25! https://thenester.com/ Want to get organized? Learn 6-Step The Clutterbug Method: https://clutterbug.thinkific.com/courses/Clutterbug-Method You can find more Clutterbug content here: Main YouTube Channel: @Clutterbug Website: http://www.clutterbug.me TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/ #clutterbug #podcast #myquillynsmith #househushing #decorating #decor #decoration #interiordesign #declutter #homehacks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have a question for you. I'm wondering if your home feels cozy, does it feel loved? Does it feel like it's hugging you as soon as you walk in the door? And if the answer is no, I think I have a real solution for you in today's podcast. Today's podcast is, I don't know, I'm so excited about it. Okay, it's a special treat because we have the incredible Mike Willan Smith. And if you haven't heard of her years ago she started this amazing blog called The Nestor and she was posting as the nestor and then she wrote this incredible book called Cozy Minimalist Home and just kind of flip the narrative on minimalism and then she came up with house hushing and backwards decluttering which you may have heard from other people and other influencers but let me tell you michaelin smith

coined that and right now she has a new book coming out tomorrow called House Hushing. I got an early copy. I read it. I was so inspired. Like literally so inspired. It has me rethinking all the decor in my home. And I just know you are going to be so inspired too. And in honor of today's guest, I really want you to challenge yourself to hush a space today. I also want you to be honest with yourself. If you have a very cluttered home with piles everywhere, I want you to hush a small space, like a coffee table or your dining room table or the top of your bedroom dresser. If you have a bit of stronger decluttering muscles and you've been doing this a while, maybe you could go a little

bit bigger and hush a whole section of your countertop in the kitchen or maybe even one whole wall in a room. An entire room's a big ask. We're only We're only here for like an hour podcast, but I do want you to practice hushing. And Michaelan is going to explain more what this looks like. But for you right now, these are the steps I want you to follow. First, I want you to pick a spot that you're going to hush during this podcast while you're listening because you're not allowed to just listen. You have to take action. I want you to be so proud of yourself. Number two, I want you to pick a holding zone. This is someplace where you're actually going to put the stuff so you can like experience the clear space. Don't make this a hidden doom room or a box.

Unfortunately, you're going to want it to be like another spot that you're using. So it forces you to deal with it later. Okay. So pick a holding zone spot. And the third thing I want you to do is make sure that we're not just putting everything in this holding zone as you're hushing. look and see, is there trash that can go in the trash? Are there things that belong somewhere else that you can take it there now and put it away? What I want you to hush are the things that are kind of living there without any other place to go. This can be decor. Seriously, it can be pictures on the wall if you're doing one wall. If you're doing a section of your counter, it's probably your coffee maker and your toaster and even your spatulas. I want you to literally empty this space. It doesn't mean forever. You absolutely can go back as you're like, man, I need a spatula to flip the pancakes. Go and get it later. But this is how house hushing works.

It is reverse decluttering where we start with a clean slate and then we shop our stuff and bring it back while acknowledging how the space makes us feel, while getting to have all the benefits of a clear space. So pick one space, pick a holding zone. Roll up your sleeves, start house hushing. And let's meet Mike Willan. Hello, Mike Willen. Welcome to the Clutterbug podcast. Cass, I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me. You're amazing. I'm a huge fan. I am so excited about your new book. It is so, so good. But I actually have a question that I want to ask you first, which I pretty, I'm 99% sure I know the answer to, but I just want to clarify, did you coin the term

house hushing. From what I understand, I did. We tried to look it up. I know when I started writing about it, I don't know, 2015-ish, I didn't hear it anywhere else. And then when I was writing the book, the publisher wanted to know. They were like, we don't care.

We just need to know. So my agent and I tried to go back, look at everything, saw when I talked about it. I believe that I did. I believe that you did too. And I want to make sure you're getting the credit. And I'm very good friends with some influencers who do talk about house hushing and they credit you. Absolutely. But again, I want to make sure that you are getting the credit because this is such a genius idea. It really, really is. And I would love it if you would explain to my listeners the concept of house hushing.

Yes. You know, when I first started house hushing, I thought it was this one singular idea, but I realized it's kind of an idea with four parts. I know that sounds vague, and I don't have like a diagram to tell you. But I think I used to think of it as like how I decluttered. But now I realize it's kind of a alternative to minimalism that's a little softer, a little gentler,

a little more nuanced. And there are kind of four methods that you can do within house hushing. And the one that when people say, I'm house hushing. And the one that I used to say is now what I call backwards decluttering, because I think there's actually more ways to hush your house than just one. So backwards decluttering, or if you hear someone say, I'm going to hush my house, they're usually referring to the idea of backwards decluttering. Yes. And can you describe from my listeners? I know they know who you are and they are familiar with your concepts. But just in case, could you walk us

through what backwards decluttering looks like? It is a way to make decluttering decisions without having the decision overwhelm. So you take the, what you do is you say, I'm in a declutter room. Let's say it's your family room. And instead of picking up every individual item and saying, you know, is this trash? Where does this go? Or did this bring me joy? Or would I buy this today if it were full price, any of those things, what we do is we pick the room that we're going to hush and then we pick another room and that's going to be our holding area or it can be another spot. It can be your hall closet or a bin somewhere. In my last house is a really tiny. I used my covered porch as my holding area. Here in my house now, it's my dining room. So all the things in my family room that I

want to hush, which is like that last layer of stuff, think when you're moving into a house, you get your rug and your sofa and your drapes and your art, maybe your TV and your lamps. Then after that, there are all these things that over time we add to, the photos, the books, your crochet, the games, the kids' musical instruments, the catbed, the toys, all just over and over and over. And if we don't declutter, we all know what's happening is those things add, add, and add. And I like to say they are adding to the visual volume of our home. If everything that we own has a voice, it starts out as this beautiful harmony and then a lot of times it becomes a roar and we're kind of house blind to it. We don't notice it happening until all the sudden we walk in a room.

We're like, oh, this room is killing me. It's too overwhelming. It's chaotic. I've got to like burn it all down. However, there are people like me who are obsessed with beauty. And we have taken a lot of our time to decorate. We love meaningful things and story and layers. And it's important to us to have this home that is cozy enough to invite people to and has pillows that are cushy and, you know, this meaningful quilt and all of this stuff.

And so for me, as a person who would admire a minimalist, but then know that I still want all my meaningful stuff to surround me, I thought, what is the solution for someone like us? can people obsessed with beauty have a minimal home as well? Can we have something within the nuance? And that is where house hushing came about. And so for the method itself, since you asked, you're going to move that layer of stuff out. So I would be putting it into my dining room. And then you're going to enjoy the room that you hushed for 24 to 48 hours. And some magic happens in that time. Of course, at first, it feels weird. It feels like you're moving out. And it just is like, what is happening?

This doesn't, this feels so awkward. That usually wears off in a couple of hours. I tell people like, spend time in there, read a book, have the kids come in after school. Everyone's going to love that room. Oh, it's so big. Oh, we have so much room. I mean, you'll notice things you haven't noticed in the past. What happens after a couple of days, and I've done this with thousands of women, it always happens,

is that you start to not only enjoy the room without all the stuff, you start thinking that you secretly wish you could live like that. You secretly wish that you didn't have to bring everything back in. And when you start becoming protective of that piece of that hushed room, I think that's the time where you say, okay, now that I'm in the room and I am enjoying this quieted version of it and I still have all the function. It's still really pretty. What? things are really missing. Is there some meaningful things that I really want to bring back in? I want to bring the plant in. I want my kids' trophies to be on the mantle, whatever it is. And so it's just a kind of a backwards decision-friendly way to declutter. Yeah, I think it's so brilliant. I actually

hushed my bedroom maybe about a year ago in a different way, but I was inspired by your concept. I love beautiful things too. And I had these past. patterned curtains, and they were so gorgeous, pinks and blues and yellows and all my favorite colors. And then I added all these gorgeous, I'm a throw pillow junkie, so many beautiful pops of color. And I had plants. I had artwork that matched. It was beautiful. But I felt like energized in the bedroom when I should feel like I was really struggling to sleep if I'm being honest. I'm like, I'm perimenopausal. So what I did was I took everything out. And I was, I took everything out, and then it was like, this is a little bit depressing.

But I felt calmer and I relaxed more. So even though I loved all the color, I didn't, I didn't hush in the way of like backwards decluttering, though I kind of did decluttered all the decor. I took your other concepts of like it's more than just, it's more than just the amount of stuff. There's other things that are making noise too. and I brought in a bunch of beige, which sounds so sad. I love this space for the relaxation. There are other rooms.

I love color. But in the bedroom, hushing made such a difference, which, again, is one of the many reasons. I'm so excited to have you here because I don't think this is something we really think about in our home. We want it to be beautiful and cozy and feel like us. but for some reason it doesn't always get that. We have all the pieces and yet the puzzles not being put together and you are helping us, especially with your book House Hushing, put those pieces together.

My favorite story you shared about right off the beginning of your book was about the fact that you were shy growing up and you really related that to hushing your home. Can you share that with my listeners? Because I think this is so, so relatable. Okay, I'm trying to remember exactly that story. I think I have it. Yeah, so growing up, I was, I was quiet. And I always, I never thought bad or good. You're a child. You're just like, this is my personality. But grownups around me would kind of apologize for me and say, oh, she's just shy and things like that. And I always took that. It felt like it was said in a negative way. And I remember thinking, well, I don't feel negative at all about it. I have lots of thoughts. I just am choosing to keep them in my head. And I think that we can do the same thing when we think about people's homes. I know that I've had people say, because I call myself a cozy minimalist and people say, oh, they hear the minimalist part. They said, I could never be a minimalist because I love beautiful things. And I think, well, that's so sad that you think you either have to be a minimalist or have beautiful things. That's the worst. I feel so sorry for you if you think that way. It's like saying people that are shy, have. no personality. No, they have a quiet personality. And a minimalist could have quiet decor, which is exactly what you were talking about in your room. You realized that the visual noise that

was coming from all of the color and all of the pattern in what you had in your bedroom, it doesn't mean it's good or bad. Maybe two years ago, that energy would have been wonderful for your sleep. But right now in your life, you're paying attention and you say, this is not helping. And so you had the tools, and that's what it's about. is having these tools of saying, this doesn't feel cozy enough so I can turn up the visual volume. Maybe I will add more pattern or color or scale or texture. Or this is feeling jarring. This is like got my nervous system buzzing. This is feeling too visually loud. I have the tools to turn down the visual volume in this room. And that is the part that we call quiet decorating. And what is different from

our minimalist friends that I love and admire and have so much respect for, they only only have one method and that is the number of things that they own. And so it's just like get rid of the stuff, which is a great way. And I love that way. But there are more ways than just getting rid of stuff and quiet decorating is one of those ways to still honor the coziness, the welcoming home that we want to have and that we want to have guests over. But to also recognize that there are things that read as visually loud. Yes, that is the number of things in our home, but it's colors, its pattern. It's the mixing of color and pattern. You could have, you know, right now the color drenching is so popular. If you've ever been a color-drenched room, it's actually very peaceful.

Everything is the same color, even if it's like a dark blue, but the curtains are blue and the ceiling is blue and the drapes are blue and the molding and the walls and maybe the rug. And like, it just feels like a hug. And that feels quiet. It's those contrasts. If you had a lot of white or stripes, then it would feel like, oh, more, there you go. The energy is rising. And so having more tools than just getting rid of stuff can be really helpful. Yeah, this is so good. Like to hear you talk about yourself being shy and then I kind of started like personifying my home. I was like, does my home have a personality too that that I wanted to have? And I'm allowed. obnoxious person and I talk a lot and I'm hyper and I think there are times like in my craft room

I kind of want my craft room to be a little loud and spunky and have that be that personality but my living room where I'm relaxing at the end of the night my bedroom I want those to be a little more quiet and subdued and I didn't think of my space kind of in that personality way until I read you making that correlation which I thought was so so clever and you take that a step further and you actually talk about the soul of a home and like every home has a different soul even brand new builds you said and I live in kind of like an older it's so weird um it's like a farmhouse I guess but there's drop down to the living room and a drop down to another living room and it's a bunch of rooms and and on paper I should hate this home why so many doors

and why so many tiny rooms and why am I stepping down into a living room? room, but it has a feeling. It has like this, this weird soul, the kitchen's a weird layout. And that like adds to the house in some weird way. Can you expand about that about how listeners maybe can see the soul in their home? Or you give a great example of like mid-century modern versus Victorian that the home, the structure itself, the layout is, is saying something. thing. Well, just you talking about your house. Why are there steps here? And then the kitchen's over here. Sounds like your house has a quirky personality, which is very joyful sounding to me. And it sounds like someone with your personality, I could see how that would work really well. And I could see how

when you have a house with a strong personality, it almost demands less from your personal style. And if you don't realize that moving in, like I didn't when we moved and I live in a Victoria house. If you see this, there's like four doors behind me. Why are there four doors behind me? There's just so much going on with millwork and like fireplaces and built in shelves. And I moved in and I brought my personality with taxidermy and like funky vases and things like that. And I had moved from this really, really simple farmhouse that was quiet with eight foot ceilings. It didn't really have much of its own to say, which is fine. There's not a right or wrong. Just like with your personality. It was more of a lot.

shy house, but this house, she's an extrovert. And then I moved in with my extroverted decor, even though I'm personally, I'm not an extrovert. My decor is. And I brought it in. And before I even knew it, it was, the rooms would be exhausting. And I had to like recalibrate how the soul of my house and the soul of the stuff that I brought with me. Because think about it, if you move next door, the house feels different, even if it's like the exact same layout as your own, like something the light is coming in different because of the trees and maybe they put the bathroom over here like just every little thing can change the feeling of your home and that's that's why I love homes so much. I've never met a home I didn't love and see so much potential in. And I think the funnest part about

setting up a home about getting to know a home is that they're all different. And as we develop our own taste, our own what is important to me today, am I going through menopause? Am I caring for my parents? Am I pregnant with a baby? Are we going to have college kids moving out? We get to always be identifying. What is it that I need from my home right now, which is where I get into like seasonal styling? Yes, it's about is it fall and you want fall colors? But more than that, it's like, what a season are you in? What do you need this season that maybe you haven't needed in the past? And then asking it for that from your home. Again, you get to work on those styles. Do I need it more cozy? Do I need it quieter? So it's a lot of like awareness and paying attention. And, you know, all of that quiet and loud is really talking about the attention that the stuff in your home is demanding from you.

Yeah. This was so good. You talk about like different dials too, like that you're turning down. And I think in my bedroom, I turned down the color dial. That's what I did. I turned down the color dial, which I thought was like I would hate this. I'm like, I wanted to be fun and beautiful. I hate those. Minimalists that just have like one stick in the corner, you know, and everything's beige, boring, sad beige. I'm like, I will never be that person. But I tried with the nothing and lived with it and it was uncomfortable. And then I listened to the energy. So even though in my mind, I thought I wanted something, obviously my body, my energy, my how I felt wanted something different. And it's still beautiful. And I brought things back in and I love it. But I love that you are like kind of you're not only turning down dials whether it's the amount of stuff you have the amount of color the amount of pattern that you have but you're also like turning up your own

intuitive dial and really listening to your home so how would you recommend that my listeners like practice listening to their home like what what's an exercise they can do is it house hushing is that how they listen or is there another way that they can really walk into a room and What should they look for? How should they notice things that maybe they're not noticing? If you come home and you're like, I love coming home, then I think you should pay attention to that. And if you come home and you feel like your home is giving you a to-do list, I think that is something to pay attention as well. I think backwards decluttering is a wonderful place to start, but maybe not start with a room. I like to begin with, and especially if you're like, oh, that sounds really good, but I have taken so much time, getting the right pieces and styling everything.

And it's pretty. And I love how when you were talking about your bedroom, you knew that there was something besides what the minimalist offer, which is you need to have less, or what the people in my field, which is the designers offer in which a lot of the ladies that I work with, if they're unhappy in a space, they'll say, oh, I must need to add more. And you said, no, no, I think I need to change some things that I already have. And so I think that was really wise. And so thinking about if you are feeling like, I wonder if my house maybe does need to be hushed, pick the most used surface in the room. If it is your bathroom, it's going to be your bathroom counters. Maybe in your kitchen, it's your island.

Maybe in the family room, it's your coffee table. And just hush it. Do not have anything styled on it. Do not decorate it. and just have it as empty as possible. And when I say this, it does not mean my coffee table is not always clear. However,

I'd no longer style my coffee table. Now, from time to time, might I put a plant on it to take a picture or something like that, yes. But in real life, my coffee table is naked, my kitchen island,

nothing is styled on it at all. I have a big kitchen island. Those two places are always empty unless I'm doing a project. So they're probably only empty about 40% of the time because a lot of times I'm cooking dinner or I'm doing a puzzle or we're having pizza or the cat is napping on it. So it's not empty so it stays empty. It's empty so it can serve my wonderful life. And that is what if you find that your house feels okay, but as soon as you start to do something, fold the laundry, bring the groceries home and put them away, start dinner.

You are having to move things. You are feeling overwhelmed. That is your house speaking to you and saying, hey, we have too much stuff. This is above your threshold of what you're able to care for right now. Maybe two years ago, it was fine. But today you're frustrated. This stuff is in your way. It's time to hush some things.

So, so good. You talk a little bit about your decluttering journey and realizing that it isn't a one and done, that it's an ongoing thing. And I think a lot of my listeners, I know a lot of my listeners are perfectionists who have this all or nothing project mentality, like I'm going to declutter or I'm going to decorate and then that's, I'm done now and it's going to or they're going to wait until they can do it all at once. And you had this realization that it's an ongoing process, which I love. Can you talk about that shift? Did you used to have the more all or nothing mindset too? When I was younger, I definitely did. We are in our 15th house now. I've been married 30 years,

raised three boys. And not only have I learned that it doesn't work that way. I'm so glad it doesn't work that way. How boring to move in a house, get it decorated and done and then never change it. Like, and how sad a life. I hope that I will forever be growing and learning and adding new things to our family and new hobbies and new friends and needing our rooms to service in different ways, even if I stay in the whole house or in this house for the rest of my life, may it change with me. May I be aware enough to say, you know what? We used to use that as a dining room, but it would be so much more fun as a game room or a music room or a craft room or my parents need to live here and it's going to be their bedroom. Like that is how we should be using

our houses. We don't get our haircut and then it's done forever. No, we get to get our haircut all the time and change up our style and that is the fun of it. And now I'm so glad that the decluttering and the especially the decorating part, but even the decluttering, because what I have found is, you know, in the same way that I think we all know that more stuff kind of leads to more stuff, less stuff can also lead to less stuff because you clear off that coffee table, you hush the island, you're like, wow, that feels really good. Maybe I'll go clear off this other surface. I think if you start with those surfaces, it teaches you that, especially if you're like me and you're like, I need that coziness. I want that pattern and the cozy welcoming feeling, but I can still have some blank walls.

I can still have a shelf that's not, you know, styled with an inch of its life with cute chotchkes. No, I always think like, what is the least amount of stuff I can have in every room and still have it look my style and function beautifully. And, you know, I think that's a really fun thing. And I'm constantly, like you said, those layers. Every year, it kind of challenged myself because I hush every room in my house about twice a year, usually like January-ish and kind of about this time, like right before the kids go back to school, even though my kids are no longer in school, it just feels like stuff

has kind of piled up. And so as I go through and I'm like hitting a room again, I think, oh, you know, last time I got rid of, or maybe I, you know, simplified this shelf. Well, this time, since that feels so good, I've proven to myself that it works. I feel confident in my skills of like, I can make this house still feel like me and still feel great and still honor those soulful things that I love. I'll find new ways to maybe display those in ways that are still quiet. Yeah, I was so inspired when reading your book. I mean, I liked my living room. And I was like, this is a nice space. But I'm like, I'm here. I'm going to commit and I'm going to give this a try. So I packed up the stuff.

I put it on the dining room table and I went back into the room and hated it and was like, but she, Michael says I got to test this out. So I sit on the couch and immediately I'm like, oh, I want my blanket and pillow. So I just went and got it. And I got the pillow and the blanket and then I had my drink and I didn't have my coaster. So I went into the dining room and I grabbed to the coaster. And I was like, oh, there's that book I'm reading. So I went and I brought back the book. And slowly I realized there were things I was missing. But what happened was I went back in there and I looked at all the stuff. And I saw this little elephant that I got from my grandmother's home after she passed away. And I thought, this should be somewhere.

It was like behind a bunch of things that I had grouped together. And like, this should have a place of honor. And it made me reevaluate and then start thinking about like, Oh, because I was inspired by your book. Can I go get all the love letters Joe wrote to me when we were first dating? And can I get a beautiful little leather box to put them in? And then set that on the shelf. Like it got me thinking not just about the decor I bought from Home Sense that has already been in there. But how can I take some of the memory and the like soul and the feeling and add that back in?

And I wouldn't have thought of that if I didn't have a sort of. blank space. And I can, I'm thinking that this is like the real power here is cultivating a house that feels more like us because we are blind. We see it every day, day in and day out. Sometimes we think we even love it. But do we love each individual piece? We won't really know till they're gone, which was so, so clever. Okay. I'm going to stop, I'm going to stop rambling for a question for a second because I you ramble it's the best i do have some questions that i'm curious about because so many people who listen are like me and we want shortcuts and i know in the past i was i'm a recovering super slob so while i love pretty and decorating i also am a little bit lazy and decuttering was

so hard for me and i'm naturally messy person so my house got out of connoissellobes so my house got out of control. And then when I would get to the point where I was so sick of it, I would clean it and I would pack everything into bins. Basically, I was kind of hushing, not to the full extreme. And I would hide it in a basement or hide it in a spare bedroom and then be like, ah, my space is better. But I didn't go and actually declutter. I was stuff shuffling. So how can we really make that distinction. How do you make that distinction between you're hushing your space, but we're not just moving things to a holding zone and then leaving it there forever? How can we stop ourselves from doing that and actually follow through? So we're not creating these doom rooms or these doom boxes.

Well, two things. I think first, you have to truly tell yourself, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? and am I enjoying the results from it? That's when I really was able to let go. When I saw the results of having half the number of items in my family room and it still felt good, I suddenly had the confidence that I didn't want that stuff as much anymore. I think it came from moving a lot to when you move a lot, you feel like, I don't know, I think there's two people. Like some people when they move a lot, they get rid of stuff a lot.

I'm the opposite. I'm like, I might move again, so I might need it in my next house. And I decided that if I think I'm so creative and so good with like finding things at the Thrip store, then wouldn't I rather get the opportunity to do that in the future and get to find those things again? And so as I, almost like you have to come to the frustration. If you're not frustrated enough, sometimes you don't get the results that you really need. I had to get to a point where I was really frustrated.

And until that, that's when I could say, I'm frustrated, I'm hushing, it looks better. I am not packing this away 100% of this stuff again. Now, might I keep a few things? I might. But you're not really done until you can start giving away or getting rid of the excess and trusting yourself and trusting the process. And again, that's what I like about this is you get to see the results in your room before you say, I am willing to let go of this. So I think that to me, that makes it so, so, so much easier.

But you still have to be willing to do that. And I don't have a magic sentence. I just know that you have to get to the point where the pain of having a loud room hurts more than the pain of getting rid of something that, you might possibly maybe use one day that you got at a yard sale for 50 cents. Yeah. Okay. So would you recommend the holding zone? So when they're hushing a space and they're taking everything out and putting it in a holding zone,

would you recommend that that holding zone is actually a place where it would create some friction in their life so that they have to deal with it? As someone who has ADHD, if I made my holding zone the basement, you know, room that is just like where the cat litter box goes, I'm like, yay, my space looks amazing. And I would ignore the stuff I took out of it forever, which means I'm not really, I'm putting a band-aid, I'm not healing a wound. So would you recommend it go to a holding zone where someplace that is like annoying to force you to deal with it? Or I know you actually mentioned your trunk, which I thought was really brilliant. Yeah, yeah. I definitely think you need to put it somewhere where you

can't hide it from yourself forever. And it's going to be different people, places, depending on your home. But it's not, you're not supposed to suffer and you're not supposed to be able to put it off forever. So yes, somewhere that is out of sight, I want you to be able to be in the room without seeing it because that's what helps you experience the way it really feels. But it shouldn't be so far away that you're able to start a whole room with every room hushed in your house and you can just pile it all in there. You're right. That would be a disaster. And when you pointed out that you brought things back in that you used. Again, it's, you're not suffering. You're saying, oh, I actually need my blanket. I need my slippers. I need my lamp. I need the TV remote.

Bring those all back in. They're part of your daily existence. So of course, you bring them in. Yeah. And reading your book, you mentioned something that I think is so important too. When there's things in the space that you know belong somewhere else, instead of just putting that in your holding zone, put that away. Put the trash in the trash. We're not just stuff shuffling the piles. This is like we're actively dealing with things and putting them away. And if you come across something, you're like, I don't even know why I have this in the first place. That can immediately maybe go so that your holding zone isn't crazy overwhelming.

I've decluttered a lot of homes, Michael, and listen. And we'll have doom boxes, which means they've cleaned before they basically hushed before companies coming over, but they've thrown papers. their passport, the important, all the things, just, ah, into boxes. And the issue is now everything in there feels important, even though there's old yarn and stuff, it feels important because there's probably a passport in that bin or in that bag. And so I want to caution my listeners who are like, yay, I'm going to practice being a minimalist and put everything, not to doomb box it. And to make sure that we take a few.

seconds to take the really important things out, the bills that need to be paid are not going in your holding zone. So we're not stuck like that. Would you agree? I agree it. Even when you do that on the first round, like as you're, let's say, you're taking everything in and you see three cookbooks that need to go in the kitchen. Always what happens is when I, two days later, go back to that holding zone, I see more things that I'm like, oh, actually, this needs to go in the kids room. Oh, actually, this is broken because you don't always see that at first. So there might be a couple of rounds even of looking at your stuff with fresh eyes saying, does this belong in another room?

Does this belong in the trash? Can I really let it go? And that feels good. Like that's always fun when you can move it to its place because then your little pile gets smaller. Yes. Okay. I really, really, really, really want to talk about chapter eight was my favorite. I was so inspired and soulful styling, just all of it. Oh, so good. So I can't wait to talk with my listeners

about that. But before we do, while I was reading your book, I totally diagnosed your organizing style, basically in the first chapter. So I'd like to talk about that with you to see if I nailed it. Okay. What I discovered was I don't organize in a traditional way. And I think that's why I struggled for so long to have systems that worked and overworking with clients, I discover there are four organizing styles. And it's a combination of how you store things and how you sort things. So I already know that you don't want to see ugly things. Not that things are ugly. I shouldn't say that. I already know that you're a hidden organizer. And what I mean by that is you don't want to see your toothbrush unless it's maybe in like a beautiful vessel that

holds a toothbrush and your everyday things aren't out of sight, out of mind, and you'd prefer them tucked away so you have a quieter space. Is that right? Yes. You got it. Of course, I had to take your quiz to know that, but yes. Oh, you already took the quiz. Okay, I also got the vibe that you're not an overly detailed, I could be wrong here, because again, I'm just reading, but I got ladybug vibe all day that you want like fast, easy, quick living, but you want it to be beautiful. Yeah. You're good at your job.

Are you a ladybug? Wow. Yes, I am. I was like, I was like halfway through the first chapter. I'm like, this ladybug is ladybuging all day. Wow. Oh my gosh. Which is so cool because I think that is why this hushabugging.

really works for you, especially if you are putting your holding zone on your dining room table, you don't want the dining room to look like a mess. You are motivated to clear that out. That's so true. So ladybugs, this is really going to help you, but other. Oh my gosh. Ladybug, this is like brilliant for ladybugs. I will say there will be some crickets and bees and butterflies that may struggle because for them that now we've got this big overwhelming mess and it's like they're not as motivated for the serene beautifulness. Yeah. They're yeah they're they're more motivated by details and the perfection and so they'll put that off until they can which is why I think okay so good to have the boundaries and the rules. So if I had I I think I think,

everyone should hush a space. But I think if they're a cricket or especially crickets and bees, we should give ourselves a deadline of how many days we can keep the holding zone. And the holding zone should be in a place that creates enough friction to force us to do it. And if we are a butterfly and we are doing a space, I think they should hush like a table first. I think they should really zoom in because every space is so overwhelming. If they're putting it in another room that's already a disaster, there's less motivation to actually tackle that space. How do you feel about that? That's so good. Well, can I rewrite a little, a couple paragraphs in this book. It's excellent. It's so good. Because I only know the way, I mean, it's, it makes so much sense that you can

instantly diagnose that because I only know what works for me. And really, that's why I wrote this because some of the other methods weren't working for me. And I'm like, I know there's people like me who need a different way to do this. So, lady, calling all ladybugs. No. I think that was really fascinating. This works for me so good. And I immediately hushed spaces. Because as a ladybug, absolutely our first, like our goal is we want a beautiful space. But if I was to hush and throw it in a closet in the basement that I rarely open, I probably would, I don't care because I don't see it. You know what I'm saying?

Could stay there forever. So, so good. Yeah, I think knowing, it's really knowing yourself. But absolutely, I think hushing your home can work for every organizing style. It's just having, make sure you know your limits and have boundaries and rules before you start where you're going to put things, how long it's going to stay there. And the trunk is so good because it's no extra work, especially for butterflies, to just take the leftovers straight to the donation. That's good. That's so good. I wish I would have known that. Then I could be like,

maybe you do the trunk so it can already be on its way to be dropped up. If you're a person like, prone to making doom boxes and storing them forever or renting storage lockers, you know, when you hush a space. You can have some simple rules that can stop you from doing that, but still have all the benefits of living, yeah, of experiencing it. And I also know a lot of my very visual people, when they're probably listening to this podcast, they have, I have no desire to quiet my space. I have no desire to hush it. I would challenge you. my listeners that maybe not every space you want hushed and quiet, but I know there are some spaces that you don't know what you really want until you feel the energy, until you feel how

you feel in the space. So giving this a try, I think is brilliant. Now, speaking of giving it a try, is there a space that you recommend they start with? Is there a spot like you're like, okay, they're committing to hushing. Is there a room or space that you think they'll get the biggest bang for their buck? Well, I think the kitchen is always the easiest because it's not super decorative or it doesn't need to be if it is. Usually it's very dusty. And so we get that little zing of like, oh, look, it's so easy to clean now. Because usually hushing leads to cleaning, even if you hate to clean. And the decisions are just easier when you go back a couple days later and look at your stuff. you either really need it or you decide that you don't need it. It's not like a sentimental.

You're not keeping your kids keepsakes in the kitchen or anything like that. And it's the room that we're doing the most active work in. So the payoff is so good in the kitchen. Having just a little bit of extra empty space feels like a million dollars. So I say the kitchen. I love it. Okay. So walk me through this because now I have so many questions. I'm coming from an organizer brain. would you recommend that they're just hushing, like we're not emptying the entire kitchen. We're just hushing like the counters and the wall space. Are you moving out the coffee maker? Are you moving out the blender, whatever's on the counters?

Yes. If it's visible, if it's on the counters, you are moving it out. If it's on a surface in the kitchen. Now, if sometimes there are some areas where maybe people have a big shelf that has 300 pounds of different spices and all of their da-da-da, you know, I think that's like this is its own little hush project. But if it's just, you know,

your counter with a couple of things on it and your kitchen island and some plants and things like that, your cookbooks put on a bookshelf, then yes, I would do it all and I put it all. I do my dining room table again. And then, I mean, I literally do it.

And then I wipe down my counters and then I bring the coffee maker back in because I know I'm going to make coffee, you know, the next day. Now, my coffee maker is behind. I can't, you know, I can't look at my coffee maker all day. It has to be hidden. So if I don't have a pantry, I find a way to make a pantry. And then if it doesn't have a plug, I hire a man to put the plug in.

Or I have a piece of furniture and have my husband drill a hole in so I can put it in there. Or my current house has a tiny little appliance garage. And if we turn our coffee makers just so, we can get them both in there. and I don't have to look at it because I want to look at as few of things as possible because that's what makes me feel peaceful. I want it to be beautiful and quiet and empty so I can do my work and I don't have much to clean. And so yes, hushing those counters, getting as much put away and that I can easily reach to, that is my goal. So I usually tell myself, how can I live with three items touching my counter and I have a cheat for that. So usually now what I do is we've all seen

those sink strainers that they can stretch and fit in your sink. Target has them for 699. I don't use it for my strainer. I use it and I put my pretty soap. You know, I pour my soap into a prettier container. I do see it. Okay. Yeah. We're the most ladybugies, lady bugs. You're more of a ladybug than I am. Okay. I am the lady's bug. all the pretty things that I need to wash because I don't want anything sitting on the counter by the sink. I don't want anything sitting in my sink. So it's in that strainer.

All my little scraper and my little hoo-hoo's and all that. Then next to the stove, I have one thing, which is a tray, but that tray holds all kinds of goodies. It has. So it's counted as one. I call it a home base. It's got like this container that holds all my pretty spoons and spatulas and stuff. stuff, it's got my salt cellar, my pepper mill, it's got a little plant, it's got a candle. It might have, you know, a book, a recipe book or something like that. It might have something my kids made. And so

because it's on a big tray, visually, it reads as one thing. And that feels like a win to me. So anything that I need instant access to, then I will put on that. And then it makes, I still have all my functional things at my fingertips, but it makes it feel like if I need to, if I spill something, and I can just lift up one thing and wipe under it. I think you're a genius. This is so good. There definitely are listeners who are like, I want my spices and I want my crock of utensils.

That's cool. But I love the idea. What if we, what if, just have an open mind here, listeners, we hushed it, we moved all the spices out. And the next time you cook when you're like,

oh, I need the oregano. You go get the oregano. And then you go get the ones you like. And we just have, like, this is a way of knowing what you actually use. What's your favorite spack? Go get your spatula. Bring it back. You're going to find that there are things left in the holding zone that you don't actually

need. You can still have your things, just not the amount that you currently have. And I think that this is such a cool way of knowing that with this reverse decluttering. I want to jump to chapter 8 because I was so freaking inspired. Are you cool to talk about decorating and the soulful? Yeah. Yeah. What was chapter 8?

Oh my goodness. Listen, listen, listen. Soulful styling. I realized my home. Listen, I got like crap from IKEA and stuff from Home Sense. Reading this chapter for you, I was so inspired. The first thing you talk about is like it's more meaning with less mess. And your first example was frame it.

So something you can do is like getting a beautiful frame and framing. And not only a picture, but you gave the example of framing a recipe card from your grandmother. And that was like, that's when I thought about, oh my gosh, all the love letters from Joe. Why are they in my memory bin in the basement? And Joe had all these little knickknacks that he got from his grandmother when he was little. And I'm like, why aren't those on a shelf in a little collection? Because group it was another suggestion that you had of taking all these little things or all the sea glass we've collected. That was like a little pile here and a little pile here.

Just getting a vase and putting it all together. I was so inspired to rethink how I can incorporate like memory and meaning into my decor. You had so many incredible examples. And I'd love to talk about that, the soulful styling. Like, where does this come from? And how are you so good at it? And what are some recommendations you can give to my listeners who are trying to create this? This is what we all want.

But it's really hard to sometimes know what that looks like. Yeah. Well, it comes from feeling like a frustration with a generic, stereotypical minimalist message. and hearing people kind of offhandedly say, well, I can't be that because, because I love stuff, or I love beauty, or I value history. You know, the soul of your home, the soul of the things that matter to you,

usually you're about the past, the present, and the future, the historical things, the love letters from your husband, the things your grandparents had, you're present, the projects you're currently working on, the piano music, your kids are playing, the picture that you had made at the, beach this summer. And then your future, you know, you might have a beautiful book of travel and you're

thinking about going to Italy or maybe you have a nice tea service and you know when your daughter-in-law comes, you're going to serve tea. And so all of these things together, instead of saying, well, you know, I'll pack those meaningful things away and save them and then when we need them, I'll get them out. No, those are actually our decor. If we let ourselves let go of the generic, home goods target or maybe just temporarily put that out of mind just like how you had this epiphany the elephant and the love letters it can make room for the things that really matter and so instead of buying the same piece of art that everyone else has maybe you're up in your attic and you have you know we have a little like christening gown from our boys and putting that on a little beautiful

six dollar children's fabric hanger getting a thick, heavy upholster tack and putting that in the wall, you don't even have to go and have it framed. You just hang it on a pretty vintage hanger on the wall. And now you have art that no one else has, the baby booties, all of the little chotchkes that you were talking about. Now, obviously, if those are all sprinkled around everywhere, it begins to feel like chaos again. And so what you want is you want to provide a place. And I think that for every person in your house, they should have a little special place. And of course, it can be a little treasure box that's under their bed.

But I think it makes, it's a little more honoring if it's like a visible place. Now, in your kids' room, it could be, you know, the third shelf is for you to put whatever you want. We're going to, we've got baskets for your Legos and stuff. But this third shelf, you put your rock collection, you put the little bugs that you found outside. In our family room, my husband has a big curio cabinet. We bought it from the previous owners of the house, like $150 is like so cheap. It was crazy, but it's got glass doors on it. And again, there's something about those glass doors.

It is the most hodgepodge things. When you open it, it's jarring. It's like pieces of paper and pictures of his parents and cars and the wooden duck and fake plastic teeth that you get out of a gumball machine and like a Lego statue of liberty, like everything, everything, everything. But because it's in this beautiful cabinet that has glass doors over it, when you close it, it's just like that tray on my, kitchen that suddenly becomes one item. When you close the doors of a glass cabinet, you see it as one

special thing. And so all the meaning is still there. And often if my husband has a friend over, he's got his pipe collection in there too, they'll be standing in front of the curio cabinet. He'll have it open, showing them the things. And they're looking at all of it. But I don't have to, in my head, register, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,000 different items. So you can do that for anything, any collection in your home. And it doesn't even have to be a collection that works right together. Just any special thing. Find a special box. Find a special wall cupboard or cabinet, maybe with glass, maybe a shadow box with glass and display that. And again, it's not adding to what you have. It can allow you to get rid of maybe something that isn't as meaningful

and honor something that is. Yeah, I mean, I loved this so much. And you included a picture of like two of the shelves of your house. And I thought it was beautiful. Can I just say you called it a cabinet of curiosities? And I thought that was the coolest idea. And then I started thinking about my grandmother, who my grandma Audie had like eight curio cabinets, like all over and everyone was crazy filled. I think just like everything, if everything's special, nothing is special. And I think it's important to have a boundary and a limit of just, one cabinet or one shelf and we put all the little special collections in there instead of what we normally do where we sprinkle it all throughout the house or we just keep multiplying and multiplying.

And when my grandmother downsized to a retirement resident, we had to take all of those cabinets and then just give her one. And what was really fascinating to me is 90% of the things that were in the cabinets she didn't love and didn't have meaning. They were just part of the collection. So if she loved like a few cherished teddy, she didn't love the 1800 cherished teddy she loved, but she just kept collecting them. And so I think with hushing a space, you then see it with nothing and you just can bring back the real meaningful ones, which is easier than looking at the cabinet and saying, which ones of these do I not like? Instead, we get to pick what we do like and our favorites and bring it back, which is brilliant. Thank you so much for being here.

Honestly, your book was so inspiring. It's been a long time since I've read a book that I immediately stopped reading and got up and just went and took action. And I did that reading house hushing. I hushed my laundry room. I hushed my living room. I was so inspired. And even more than that, I was inspired to look for more meaning in my space and make it more soulful into more of a reflection of me. So thank you so much. I absolutely recommend your book. I'm going to put a link in the description and let my listeners know how they can follow you and learn more. Oh, well, I'm on Instagram every day, just giving daily little tidbits of encouragement about home at The Nestor.

And thenester.com is where you can find all things home. And just thank you for having me. And thank you for your grace with handling all of our different ways and personality. So gently, I just love that because we all can think that everyone's like me. And you remind us to recognize that, nope, your husband's probably different. Your kids are probably different. I know that's what I continue to learn from you. Even today, I'm like, oh, yeah.

everyone's not motivated by just having stuff on their table. And so I love the niche that you have created for yourself and for us. Well, thank you so much. I'm absolutely inspired. And I know my listeners are going to run over and follow you on Instagram and hopefully pre-order your book. Thanks, Cass. I have to take a second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Cozy Earth. Something crazy bad happened. My daughter was changing her bedding and I had washed my favorite cozy earth sheets and changed them for less favorite sheets. And my daughter grabbed my cozy earth sheets and put them on her bed. Now all I hear is how she can never go back. And I feel the same way because I have two sets of cozy earth sheets, but one are like the satin ones that I love so much. And now they've been

confiscated. So I'm off to get another one. But the point is, yes, Once you've tried these sheets that are temperature regulating so ridiculously soft, it feels like luxury. You become a sheet snob. I said what I said. I also have their blankets and their towels. Oh my gosh, their bath sheets are like a duvet huge. I feel like a little tiny girl when I wrap myself in the big warm towel. If you want to give Cozy Earth a try for yourself, go to cozyEarth.com and use my code Clutterbug to save 20% off right now.

That's cozyearth.com promo code clutterbug to save 20%. I thought I'd do a quick little, oh hell no segment. And I think it's a good one to pair with today. You ready? 60 seconds where I rant because therapy is expensive and I get it off my chest so that I don't have to pay to get it off my chest to someone else. The thing that drives me nuts is how influencers don't give credit where credit is due.

And I think Mike Willan is such a good example. She's so sweet about it. But how many people are talking about backwards decluttering and house hushing? And you've heard it. And they're acting like they came up with it. When in fact, Mike Willan coined this. This is hers. And people aren't always giving her credit.

And I am guilty of this too. And here I am. The one minute rule is Gretchen Rubin. And I read that in the Happiness Project years ago. And then I was giving her credit. And then I just forgot. and I was talking about it, like I came up with it. When I didn't, other people have taken the four styles and pretended they came up,

and then they called them birds, all of it. Can we just try to give credit where credits do? Because people work hard, and they deserve the recognition for their amazingness. So if it's an accident, one thing, but let's try to like, woo, just shout out where it actually came from because those people are amazing. I really, really loved that interview so much. I was nervous. I'm going to be honest because I've been to a lot of homes where I feel like they've attempted to hush their space, basically companies coming over, so they pack up all their crap and they put it in a spare bedroom or a closet or an attic. And now years later, every space is kind of a holding zone that's never been dealt with. And while I was reading the book, that's what was in the back of my mind, that I don't want this to be just kind of a reinforcing. of that, but I loved that she was so open to the idea of, yeah, we might need to have different rules and boundaries based on the personality and your organizing style. And we may have to,

what works for one person for their holding zone might not work for another person. And have the self-awareness to know that if you just pack everything up and stick it in the other room, are you actually going to deal with it in two days or not? And if you're like, I'm probably not let's start smaller. And let's not hush the entire room. Let's hush one shelf. Let's hush one section. And let's give ourselves limits, boundaries, and rules. Maybe the holding zone is the trunk of your car. Ha ha ha ha. I mean, you know, you can't ignore that forever because the next time you go to get groceries, what are you going to do? Strapping to your roof? Nope. You're going to have to drop that stuff off at the donation center. Anyways, the point is I'm going to put a link to

Michaelin's book in the description below and other ways that you can follow her. Honestly, so, so inspiring. Sometimes you just take a few little things that can change your life. And I think going into my memory bin, pulling out my favorites and incorporating them into the decor is one of those small little tips that absolutely will have a lasting effect on my life. So grateful to her. You're going to love her book. Thanks so much. And I'll see you guys next time. You know,