Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - The TRUTHS and LIES about home organization | Clutterbug Podcast # 169

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

In today's podcast, I'm joined by Kay from The Organized Soprano as we discuss the TRUTHS and the LIES about home organization. We dig deep into our insecurities as Professional Organizers, and we chat about how social media creates a false narrative about what it means to truly be organized.  You can learn more about Kay at https://www.theorganizedsoprano.com/       You can find more Clutterbug content here: Website: http://www.clutterbug.me YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clutterbug TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today we're talking about the truth when it comes to home organization, but also the lies. And I'm excited about today's guest because not only is Kay from the organized soprano an organizing expert. So she's been a professional organizer for years, helping people in their home with real organizing solutions. She knows what it really looks like. She knows the truth behind organization, but she's also a social media influencer. So she has a YouTube channel. It's incredible called The Organized Soprano. But she also knows the struggles about what organization looks like or the lies that are

kind of presented. And so I'm excited today because that's what we're going to talk about. We're really going to break this down and be real with you and honest about what organization is and what it isn't. I'm so excited, Kay, that you're here today. Welcome to the Clutterbug podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I'm excited too. I'm extra excited because not only are you also a YouTuber and your YouTube channel is amazing, the organized soprano, but you're also a professional organizer. So we're going to dig deep today and talk about some maybe controversial stuff that I can't talk about with anyone else who isn't in the industry because you know, you know what's really going on. But first, please, tell us, tell our listeners a little bit about. yourself and why the organized soprano as it, I assume you sing, but share with me.

Okay. I'll tell you a little bit about myself. I have my YouTube channel, the Organized Soprano. I am a professional organizer. I don't see a lot of clients in person anymore, but I was helping people declutter, organized set of spaces. It was really, really fun. And I am the organized soprano because my correlating career is actually an opera singer, classical singer. I have two degrees in music. It was my first, first love. And I do that along with organizing. And they marry well together. And I figured I would just incorporate it into my brand because I'm passionate about both. So, but I don't sing and organize at the same time. But I am the organized soprano. That could be very awesome. I mean, I feel like I would love that.

This could be a new trend opera organization. Hashay. Okay. That would be really fun. Okay. So how then did you get into organizing? I have always really been into, I'm very much a homebody and I was an only child, so I spent a lot of time in my room and I was always moving my room around and it's kind of touching

my things and dealing with stuff and then I needed some work in 2008 and I started to work at the container store. I love that store. It's, it's, it's, it is heaven. It is heaven on earth. I had never been in a container store. Actually, I had never heard of it. And I was just like, I had worked in retail so such a long time.

I was like, this is just another retail store. And they wanted me to do visual merchandising. And I was like, I can do that. And I walked in and I was like, this is an organizing product store. I'm like, that's a thing. And angel sing when the door's open. Oh, I was like, how. cool is this and I was like but I'm not gonna sell to people I'm like I'm just gonna just

put stuff on the shelves and I'm gonna leave and it's gonna be fine and they were so funny they were like please please you want you to work a couple sales shifts you'd be great I was like okay and then I worked a few sales shift and people came in and they're like I had these problems and I was like I got you right here I got these I got these solutions we're gonna do this and this and this and I really liked helping people solve these problems I was like really into it It was like a video game to me. And then when I was, I think I was at the register ringing people up. And a professional organizer came to the register.

And she was telling me about her clients and all these people. And I'm like, that people, that's a thing you do? People do that? And then I was like, well, maybe I can do that. And I started my business in 2013 and went independent in 2015 and been doing it ever since. congratulations thank you so you are a naturally organized person it's a skill you I feel like I haven't yet somehow really acquired that skill but this this is what I wanted to talk about today is the perception of what organization is because when I was younger my perception

of an organized person was like everything was in its perfect place and everything looks really super meticulous and you know I had organized friends at school and their binder was like insane and it was like color corded tabs and my papers were a crumpled ball in the bottom of my backpack and so I tried to be that level of detail but that it just it's work for me like a lot of work like so much work that I just couldn't really and I still to this day can't do that level of detail. And if you're listening, you've probably listened before. That's how I sort of became a professional organizer was by starting out with friends and family with a less organized approach. Like, let's toss our crap and not even fold and throw it in a dish pan. But your house will be

tidy. You know where everything is. And it was pretty amazing. So I was really inspired by Peter Walsh, who has this more laid back approach to organization. But it's all about getting stuff that you don't use and love. What I want to talk to you about is Marie Kondo, the Home Edit. And I know you love Marie Kondo, and I love her too. But she recently got a lot of slack, you know, on social media because she has kids and she came out and said, she didn't even really, she just said she's letting go a little bit of that perfectionism.

But I do think because she was so famous and, you know, she really made organization mainstream love her for that there was a perception that that level of neat folding and that level of almost minimalism that comes with organization was what you had to be to be organized and i love that you just made a video about it being a spectrum organization as a spectrum but can we talk about that and we talk about like the perception maybe that social media gives us of what it's supposed to look like. And there are trends that I'm noticing when it comes to organization too. Absolutely. I think that nowadays, home organization has become a little bit more like interior design where there are trends. There are things that are in fashion. There are things

that are out of fashion. There are things that are looked down upon by the general public and things that we don't show that actually happen in real life. I do think that behind the scenes, Maria Kondo was very, very neat and tidy in her house, but I do believe that at this time, she's got three little ones. She's very busy with them, and little ones are notorious for moving stuff around, knocking things over and not putting their toys away. And it's just part of life. And the thing that a lot of people don't realize is that a lot of us who go into homes and see real life is that it is very much a spectrum on how much you can really keep things in order. And sometimes just having a bin with shoes in it, I talk a lot about the shoe bin

because I hate it so much, but sometimes that's the level you have to be at. You love a shoe bin. I hate the shoe bin because you never could get the shoe at the bottom. I'm like, kick your shoes into a basket because who cares, at least you're not tripping them on the floor. But exactly. Exactly. If that's what the phase you're in, if that's your organizing natural style. And you're obviously a detailed person. I'm guessing B, I don't know you.

I have these little names I give to organizing types. But yeah, Marie Kondo never said she gave up an organization. She gave up on always having a perfect house 24-7, which, is real life. It's real life. And she's still insanely organized. Yeah. And it's also, I think a lot of people don't realize that organization, home organization,

is a maintenance activity. And that if, like, I go through phases where my home is very organized for weeks at a time, and it's fabulous. And then, like, let's say, like, I have an opera opening in, three weeks. That week, tech week, where we're in the theater all day, is house is going to fall apart, and I know this. But next week, after we close, I'll pick it up and it'll be organized again for another three weeks until my next gig. So it just is a spectrum on what's happening in your life. And, you know, is it more important to Marriacondo that she's enjoying time with her kids or

that her house is completely neat and tidy? It's a spectrum on what's really important to you at the, at the time. And it's, you know, it's not the end of the world if, you know, there's a plate in the sink for an extra couple days or a shoe is, you know, on the stairs for, you know, a couple of hours. It's, it's really about the life experience and the things that are really important to you at the time. And sometimes your home might fall apart a little bit, but you can pick it up. That's the great thing about the things in your house is everything. things cleanable. Yeah. I think there's a misconception about what organization is, and I think it bothers me because people would watch Marie Kondo's show or read her book, and it's like, okay, well,

everything has to look like this then in my home, or they watch the home at it, and they're like, okay, to be organized, everything has to be in clear containers and in rainbows. Okay, this is what everything has to look like. And that's the problem. It isn't about what it looks like at all, all. Organization means that you don't have things in your home that you don't use in love and that everything has a home. That's it. And you, this is what we do for clients. This is the crux of it. No matter what it looks like aesthetically, you peel back all that fancy stuff. And at the end of the day, it has one goal. We're not keeping things we don't use in love. And we give everything a home. And sometimes everything doesn't go back in that home and that's fine, but it has a home.

And when I'm going into a client's home, this is the problem I'm seeing. I'm seeing piles on the kitchen. Well, where does this go? It doesn't really have a place or you open up a drawer and it's all random in there, you know? And so without zones, without dedicated areas, that makes sense. Without true organization, that's why people are really struggling to get it back to tidy fast. but the perception of what it looks like is paralyzing people in my opinion and i just want to share a story and maybe you can relate i recently went to a client's house she has a small home two kids super tiny house

she runs a home business which is in her closet her desk and on the floor she's got rolls of paper towel and toilet paper and excess things and extra sheets and towels and things are kind of just shoved everywhere but i went upstairs and i opened up her hall closet and it is a pindrist worthy dream come true there's gorgeous baskets and there's spacing in between and she's got jars with like bath bombs in it and it looks like so freaking beautiful so i said to her why is the toilet paper and towels in here she was like this is i've organized it and it's so pretty i don't want to mess it up and i'm like you don't want to mess it up with the stuff you use Do you use bathroads?

She's like, no, but they look so good in the jar. And I'm just like, but this, I see this all the time. You go to the store, you buy beautiful containers, you stage them in a space or stage them in a pantry. And then now your real life stuff doesn't fit. And you're like, well, I guess I'm going to have, like, do you know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're saying. It can't always look beautiful, even though like it's, It's super fun if it does.

And I feel like I've had a couple of client jobs where it did at the end. They really wanted to get to the level of home edit Pinterest, like have it look really beautiful. And those jobs are really fun, like super fun. But most of it is you leave and the after doesn't look that much better than before. It just may be less stuff. And it's organized. So that's the thing.

I brought up her toilet paper. I brought up and I was like, we've got to get rid of some of these baskets. And we stacked her paper towels and we stacked the toilet paper. And I rolled her towels that were, she was going all the way to the basement every time because she didn't have room in her hall bathroom closet for her towels. Crazy pants.

And it still looked. So hard. Great. But it still looked beautiful-ish. It still looked very pretty. But it wasn't like just empty containers or filled with bath bombs for the sake of what it looks like because our house is not a set and that's something that's really hard for people to understand when you're on instagram when you're seeing these

spaces this is staged for views this is staged to look a certain way this isn't how people live and i think there's a real disconnect there that is confusing people and thinking that they have to aspire to this level that isn't always realistic and you're right If you have the space and you have the money and, you know, go, I would love this. I honestly would. But for the majority of us, we have the space we have and we have the stuff we have. And we have to think practical first and pretty is that little bonus at the end. We can make our stuff look pretty, but we can't make it look like the home at it.

Absolutely. That's totally correct. And I'm part of the problem. I would be lying if I said I hadn't removed items or staged things after after photos to look really beautiful. I don't do much of that anymore, but I used to very much do that. We have, but we have to. We have to if we're putting it on social media.

You have to because otherwise they're like, oh, that doesn't look good. But we can still tell the truth. So I did my pantry and I got all these beautiful ceramic jars. And then, you know, two months later, I'm like, well, I know the jars are labeled, but we're not eating anything in the jars because they're not clear and we don't it doesn't you know what I mean yeah so I just scrapped all those and now my pantry is like cans all lined up and it isn't just pretty it really isn't but it's functional and I don't live in a mansion I can't have a pantry that's just for looks it's breaking my heart okay but I understand I'm there with you I'm there with you I wish my pantry

looked like Kim Kardashian's pantry or Chloe Kardashian's pantry or whatever, but it doesn't. It looks like my pantry and that's okay. That is okay. Because at the end of the day, the whole thing is it's just about having, not having the stuff we don't use in love and everything having a home. And I think that makes it more attainable. And I think that takes some of the pressure off people. I can't tell you how many times I've heard I can't get organized because I can't afford it. I, don't have the money to get organized. And that's so heartbreaking to me because when you look at what you think organization is, yeah, it looks freaking expensive, man. The boxes and the bins you're using to put your food in cost more than your food. That can feel really overwhelming. And so I'm

excited to kind of change the narrative, but it's a tough thing to do because it doesn't look pretty on social media. Yeah, it is really hard because, I mean, and yeah, I love, I love the the container store. I love all that stuff. I love to, like, if you can afford it, go nuts. Go nuts. I love it. Like, every now and again, I'm like, ooh, I'm going to treat myself. I actually have an order at the container store right now that I have to pick up today, just full of like little cute containers for my pantry. But, I mean, that's once in a blue moon and the rest of my home is not that fancy. But I mean, can you find the scissors? Yeah. Yeah, can you find the scissors? Can you find the scissors? That's all that matters.

Yeah, that's all that matters. That's all that matters. So this is, I just wanted to say this because I know you feel the same way, but also feel the same pressure that I do to give this, like this, you know, perception out to the world that like, look at all these pretty things. Because otherwise, people wouldn't watch. People wouldn't. Right? We need it to look a certain way because that's what people think organization is. And if we didn't have it that way, people are going to like, well, you're not actually organized. And I see this with this minimalism. I can't tell you how many people are like, you're not organized.

You have too much stuff. Who said that being the minimalist is something you have to be to be organized? I hate that comment. I hate that comment so much. I get it. I used to, it really used to hurt my feelings, actually. When people were like, you have so much stuff. I'm like, but I need that stuff.

I need that stuff. Like all of my dress collection for singing, I'm just like, I need it. I have, I can't, I need it. Yeah. And even if you love it, even if you don't need it and you genuinely love it, and you should keep it. Again, it's this perception that's scaring people away from getting organized because they don't want to be minimalist at all.

They're like, even people who have way too much stuff that need to declutter, it's hard to think, well, I have to get organized. I have to get rid of everything. And that lie is stopping people from getting started because you don't have to get rid of anything you want to keep. That's the truth. You only have to let go of the stuff you don't even like anyways. And it's there.

I promise you it's mixed in with all the things you love. It's always mixed in. It's always mixed in. And I always tell clients, I'm like, I am not the quantity police. If you want to keep 50 cameras, if you love them all, that's good, you know, but let's get rid of the stuff you're not using. That's all it is. Let's get rid of the stuff. And where are you going to keep these 50 cameras? Do you have a spot?

Is that spot filled maybe with things you don't really like? The kitchen, I think, is the coolest example of this. I love decluttering kitchens because people will have stuff all over their counter and they'll say to me, but I don't have room to put any. I have to keep all this stuff on the counter because I don't have any space. And I'll open up their lower cabinets and there's like a dusty box with a food processor that this. And I'm like, what's this giant thing in here? Like, you know, the rice cooker that they've never used the ice cream maker.

I'm like, are you serious, friends? You don't use this ever. And but we don't, for some reason, that doesn't run through our minds. It really doesn't. We look at the stuff that we see and we're like, well, I use all of this. we don't really dig deeper in our homes to create homes for that homeless clutter. So yeah, I find that fascinating. Okay, I'm off my soapbox now.

I just wanted to jump on it because I feel like you understand. I totally understand. Yeah. Yeah, more than the average person would understand because not only do help people organize, but you also do show social media. So you feel that pressure that I do to put this out, this like gorgeous perfection out in the world in order for people to notice us. But also, we're realizing that this isn't actually real life.

Yeah. And to be totally 100% honest, it's made it really difficult to post. Just because you second guess yourself, well, like, well, is this good enough to what kind of comments I'm I going to get? Because I have all this stuff. But I'm a professional organizer, so I shouldn't have so much stuff because that's what people want. So it's made it very, it's made it a very kind of difficult thing to get past. and I think I'm getting over it now, but I think for the last year or so I've been a little bit wary of putting my home on social media just because of the pressure of the new minimalism,

which I don't think minimalism is a bad thing in concept. I think most of us who help people are minimalists, but there's a difference between minimalism in practice and minimalism, the aesthetic that has sort of accidentally commingled with the actual practice and has made it hard for people to to show their homes on social media because we have more than one t-shirt. And also my house doesn't look like I feel I feel exactly the same way. I feel like I never really post Instagram or anything because I feel like my house and my stuff isn't worthy. That's that I really truly feel that way because I love watching TikToks organizing and these people in their mansions they're like restocking the bathroom and they have like

seven thousand razors and they're lining these and I'm like whoa I can barely fit toilet paper under my bathroom counter like I couldn't and there's all these beautiful restocking videos with these gorgeous pantries and um so much opulence so much um like we know we know they've spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on containers and in their $100,000 kitchen. And for me, as is a professional organizer and even a social media influencer, which feels weird to say, am I that? I don't know. But it scares me off. So is it scaring off everyone else too from even attempting organization when we think, if I'm scared to, I'm like, oh, I could never do that. Then people who are starting with zero organization, of course they're going to look at that and think,

if that's where I have to be to be organized, I'm going to look at it and say it's pretty, but I'm never going to try. Definitely intimidating. I feel like it inspires some people and intimidates the others, like 50-50. That's what I think. Yeah, I find it, it's like organizing porn. It's what I go. Yes. It's so beautiful, so beautiful.

But then I leave after watching it feeling a little bit worse about myself and worse about my home. So in the moment of watching and consuming that, I feel good because I'm like, that would be so amazing to have that. And then I look and I'm like, I could never have that. You know, and it feels a little saddening. So I just, I think we all need to just put it out there and talk about this and how normal it is to feel this way. And I think let's post real homes on the internet.

There, set it. I'm there for that. Let's all do it. Let's do it. Let's just start a movement to post what real freaking homes look like to really inspire people. Did you just come up with a hashtag real freaking homes? Hashtag real freaking homes? Real freaking homes.

Okay. I'm getting off the soapbox. I'm sorry. I'm getting off the soapbox. Let's talk about you wanted to talk about like clutter, but you also wanted to talk about apps. and I'm really intrigued about both, but mostly the apps because I'm a hot mess sandwich. Tell me here, did you find some secret to being organized? I don't think I did.

I mean, okay, the most, the biggest disorganization in my life, I feel like, is my own time. And so, because I can be, have a super organized kitchen, but like, I don't know where I was supposed to be at five o'clock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was almost late for this. Help me. Help me, Kay. I checked the time, like, ten times. I was like, is it 11 or 10?

Is it 11 or 10? And I have to trust myself because I have made my iPhone, my very favorite personal assistant. And like any calendar that you can use that will integrate with any other app is so helpful. to keep yourself organized. The other thing that has been really helpful for my family in general is using the shared reminders list that has been so good because that way we don't buy duplicate things at the grocery store because we'll add like, we're missing mayonnaise. Okay, we'll add it to the list and so when I go to the grocery store, if I buy mayonnaise,

I will check it off the list and when my husband's at the grocery. store on a different day, he's not going to buy mayonnaise again if he didn't notice I had brought home mayonnaise. So I think that making apps your personal assistant is really helpful in terms of organizing your time because if someone who works for myself, I need to organize my time very well. So block scheduling has been really helpful and you don't have to follow it faithfully. Like if I give myself three hours to edit videos, I don't have. have to sit there from two to five o'clock and edit videos. I can sit there from, you know, three o'clock to five o'clock and edit videos. As long as I'm, I have set my intention to do that,

I don't get behind. And it gives me a sense of accomplishment. I don't have to accomplish all the things on the schedule, but if I get through some of them, I feel good. And then I can just move those to the next day or whatever. So my time stays organized. And as far as like real home organizing things, the only app I found really useful is, and this one I want to try. I know, we'll talk about that a little later after I've tried it, but is meal planning apps have been super helpful, super helpful. The one I like the most is called meal lime. I think it's based out of Canada, actually. I think three people run it or something.

And it's, yeah, go Canada. It's good things going out of Canada. and it is so, so good. There's a paid version that is very, it's like nominal, but it sort of gets the things that you're buying and helps you make a meal out of the stuff you already have. I like this. Okay, so what's it called again?

Meal lime, like meal and also lime like the fruit. Like the fruit. Yeah. It's really cute. It is. And you mostly use then Google Calendar is the one you use for sort of organizing your day and calendar. I have ADHD, so I have to set reminders for myself constantly all day long.

Do you use Google for this? Yeah, I set reminders. I use I calendar mostly because I have an iPhone. And every time I put something in my calendar, I set a reminder for like a, a, a day before. If it's really important, I'll do like a week before. But a day before and then like a couple hours before and then 15 minutes before. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Same, same, same, same. Yeah. Everything. I put things into my calendar like everything. It's ridiculous. And then I'm always doing three reminders, always. And then I invite my family members to those events so that they also are annoyed with all the constant reminders. But it has to be done.

You got to be done. It has to be done. And not only do I put like events. So yes, we have a doctor's appointment coming up, but I also put things I want to accomplish in there. And so I give myself like, I need to work on this,

this day and I'm working on this, this day and I'm cleaning the garage on Saturday. I will put that in my calendar and then set a reminder for the week before, a reminder for two days before, and then a reminder on that morning. because that kind of gets my head. Does this make sense?

It gets your head in the game because it's already on your, it's on your calendar, you're getting ready for it mentally, and by the time it comes up, you're like, I'm ready to do this. I can't back out now because I've been thinking about it all week. Like, I'm here. This is happening. It's concrete. You made a date with yourself.

Yeah, so I do this. I have weekly reminders too. I pay the bills. I even have reminders that remind me throughout the day to tidy my head. house because I'm messy. I love that. Okay. I am and I leave things out as I go.

I should show you my desk right now. It has a bunch of crab on it. But I'll tidy. I'll do five minute pickups throughout the day which keep my home. And I have to remind myself to do those. I love that. And I also think that there's another misconception to go back earlier. That professional organizers don't have to tidy.

I love to tidy. I think sometimes I leave things out. on purpose so that I can tidy just because it's so fun. I'm like, oh, I'll get to that. I'll just, I'll let it pile up and then I'll just spend like 30 minutes tidying because I love it so much. I, but I mean, it's a, it's a maintenance thing. It's a maintenance thing. And it is fun to tidy when everything has a home. I remember I lived in extreme clutter, so I wasn't organized. And so tidying was shoving everything under the bed or cramming it into a closet or just stuff in there things in the basement in laundry hampers. That,

wasn't fun because I knew man I'm just creating more work for myself in the wrong one and I knew I was doing it but it felt wrong inside when you have a home for everything and you're just putting things immediately back in those homes it does it's fun it is it feels almost like decorating does that make sense because you're like making a space beautiful yeah oh super fun I always this feels like a video game to me everything feels like a video game to me I'm like put things back in their home? Sure. Sure. Ten extra bonus points. Yeah. That's cute. I really love that. Okay. I've taken up so much of your time and I apologize for that. You are fantastic. And I think together we're going to do a movement. Hashtag real freaking homes. Real freaking homes. Real freaking homes. Let's do this.

I think it was. Yeah, real freaking homes. I love that. I don't know. Maybe that's not a good one. But honestly, yeah, there's a lot of pressure and not just on us as professional organizers and people who make YouTube videos, but there's pressure on every single person because there's a misconception about what organizing looks like. So thank you. I mean, I just love spending time with you. Please let the listeners know how they can find you and watch your awesome videos. You're welcome. Thank you so much for having.

It was so much fun. I am on YouTube at the Organized Soprano. I'm also on YouTube at Kay Daisy. It's a gaming channel if you like video games. You are like a gamer. Yeah, I love, okay, what do you say? What do you play? I mostly play Animal Crossing and like little cozy games and stuff like that.

But occasionally we get into, you know, a little bit of the adventure games, but it's mostly Animal Crossing and Sims, little fun stuff. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm a Fortnite girl myself. I love me some Fortnite. Anyway, sorry, I interrupted. Go on. How else can we find you? I am also at theorganized soprano.com. Well, thank you. It was an absolute pleasure to meet you. I'm feeling inspired. I'm going to go check out that meal lime app. It's good. It's good. That sounds so good. And I hope everyone listening is inspired to use your apps as your personal assistant and set all the annoying reminders.

It's cheaper than hiring a real person. It certainly is. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for listening. We'll see you guys next time.