Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - Tracy McCubbin -The Practice of Decluttering | Clutterbug Podcast # 164

Episode Date: March 13, 2023

Get ready to be inspired to declutter your home!  In today's podcast, I chat with Tracy McCubbin, the author of Making Space, Clutter Free: The Last Book on Decluttering You'll Ever Need.  We talk about all things clutter and the practice of decluttering.  Tracy explains her Clutter Blocks and Clutter Magnets, that will help you get rid of your clutter for good.    You can check out Tracy's Website here: https://www.dclutterfly.com/ You can take Tracy's Clutter Block quiz here: https://www.dclutterfly.com/clutterblock   You can find more Clutterbug content here: Website: http://www.clutterbug.me YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clutterbug TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clutterbug_me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clutterbug_me/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Clutterbug.Me/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, clutterbugs, welcome back to the Clutterbug podcast. I'm excited for today's podcast. I got to say, I'm a little addicted to TikTok and Instagram, especially the reels. And one person that I follow is the incredible Tracy McCubbin. She inspires me. She inspires me to let go. She just, ah, she's like the Mel Robbins of decluttering. And I'm so excited to have her as a guest today. Tracy is the decluttering expert, an author of Making Space. clutter-free and her latest book, Make Space for Happiness. Tracy looks at the root of our clutter to find the real cause and ways to get real solutions. She's also the CEO of Declutterify, where she's helped thousands of clients clear the clutter in their lives to create space for positive life changes. Are you ready? Here we go. Welcome Tracy to the Clutterbug podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm a huge fan. I've been following you for so long. So I'm so excited to have this conversation. I'm following you on Instagram. You know what? You are so good at this. You're right to the point. I'm getting that information. I'm never bored. I got to take some lessons from you on your short content.

It's absolutely brilliant, really, really good. Thank you. It was, you know, it was really born out of just kind of realizing everybody's in so much overwhelm, especially post-pandemic, especially work from home, not work from home, kids, and all that stuff. I was like, what are little bites that I can give people? You know, we, I saw you posted that about something the other day about this idea of like, you don't have to do the whole room at one time. You can just take a chunk and take a chunk. And guess what?

All those little chunks add up to getting the whole thing. done. Yeah, I love. And as somebody who has ADHD, I, when I'm on social media, it's like quick consuming, right? So I love that you're right to the point and I always feel inspired. I only have to spend 60 seconds or less with you and I feel motivated and inspired. You're like my Mel Robbins for decluttering. So you're killing it. I love this. I'm so curious though. I'm so glad we get to talk because this is a weird industry to get into, like helping people release their stuff. And for me, it came about because I was a hot mess sandwich and a total, I was living in so much clutter. But I'm curious about your origin story, Tracy. Like, how did you get into this? Oh, that's so good.

So I had spent about 10 years being a personal assistant to two different people. And I loved that job. It was always different, always exciting, always problem solving. And the last person that I was working for was a television director. And when he had downtime, people would call me and say, hey, I have this weird thing. Like my grandma passed away and I have all her stuff in my garage, you know, or my husband's business went under and he's drowning in paperwork. So I just started doing it on the side. And like, I wasn't even charging in the beginning.

And I was like, this is fun. And then I was like, people are like, no, no, no, I have to give you money. So I was like, okay. And then it just started rolling. And my flip phone started blowing up and the calls just came in. And a friend of mine was like, this is a business. I didn't even know being a declutter and an organizer was even a business. And I was like, I guess I'm sort of a secretary, personal assistant.

But then it became very clear that it was about the stuff. And another component of this story is I'm the child of a hoarder. My father is an extreme, extreme hoarder. So I have spent my whole life watching someone wrestle with the best way to say it with their relationship with their stuff. So very early on in my business, I understood that there was an emotional component and that it wasn't that people were lazy or bad housekeepers, that people. that people were attached or sentimental or had ADHD or were going through grief, that there were all these other components that I was able to help people see and change their relationship to their stuff.

I always say to people, you know, do you feel like you own your stuff or your stuff owns you? Yeah, that's really good. I started my journey helping people. It was all about the organization for me. Like, how can we create organizing systems? but it took about 2.5 seconds to realize, wow, you can't organize access. It literally will not fit.

There is not enough space. And even if we went and bought all the totes and all the bins and all the shelving, it's just not going to fit. But what I found so interesting with my own journey of helping others is, you're right, there's so many emotions tied to things. And it's different for my different clients. And you kind of, you have a whole quiz about clutter blocks. And so you must have just intuitively realized this that people generally have different reasons of why they're struggling.

And are you, you have seven, right? Is that what you're saying? Yes. Yep. Seven. Yeah. You know what happened? So I've been doing this. I've been doing this for 17 years now. I've had my business for 70. I know. It's crazy. I just, I just turned 58. It's so I'm getting married. Amazing. You look fabulous.

Thank you. I'm getting married in two weeks. Like there's so much exciting stuff going on. Congratulations. Thank you. But, you know, for doing this for so long, I started to hear the same stories. You know, and in a little bit they sounded like excuses. Well, I paid really good money for that or I might use it one day.

And I was like, there's something here. And I just heard them. And it was like they broke down into these seven. universal stories that we all tell ourselves. And I was like, oh, these are a block. These stories are, you know, everything from I'm not worth my good stuff. So those are the people who never wear the nice things or eat off the fancy China, you know, chew. Right? So they're like a whole, that's a whole thing of clutter. Like, oh, it's too nice to the stuff that keeps us stuck in the past. You know, And so all of a sudden, cast these blocks were universal.

I was like, everyone's telling the same version of these same seven stories. So I started speaking about them publicly. And people were like, that's me, that's me, that's me. And so that inspired me to write my first book, making space clutter free and identifying the seven blocks. And as you said, if people go to my website, there's a quiz where you can figure out what block you are. and it's just, you know, it's been so great for people to realize it is emotional. And also I wrote this book for other professional organizers to help people, like every tool that we can have in our tool belt,

everything that we can do to help our clients makes us better at our jobs. I love that. Yeah, self-awareness is the key, really, isn't it? It's the, it's the key for moving forward and leveling up in any area of our life. And when it comes to getting our home under control, identifying why we're struggling to let go in the first place and why we have excess in the first place. Those two things are so crucial. Why is it hard to let go? And why do I bring in more than I absolutely should? Do you find people can have more than one clutter block? Yes, absolutely. People can definitely have more than one. And as your life goes on, sometimes your clutter block changes. You know, if you're raising a family of young kids, you may be focused on.

I've spent a lot of money for that or we might need it someday. And as I work with like my seniors, I find them looking backwards and being more sentimental. So it really is important to understand that you may not have the same block forever. And as your life changes, your needs change. And I think that you make up such a good point about looking at the excess because that's, what caused me to write my second book, make space for happiness because I was like, exactly what you're saying. I'm like, we can't talk about decluttering if we're not talking about what you're bringing into the house. And I think so many people in this industry skip over

that part. I joke in the book. I say, you know, my clients will look at me like, I don't know how all this stuff got in here. And I'm like, you brought it in. No mask band it. Shuffled it in. sneak it in just like little gnomes or something like bringing in the extra yeah but it's such a slow creep okay i got to be honest with you um you talked about you so there's clutter blocks which is why it's hard to let go and then there's clutter magnets which is like why we accumulate and i help people for a living declutter and organize their home i declutter so freaking much tracy listen it's a never ending. I have no clutter blocks. Because I know the joy that comes with it and I know how life-changing it is. But I bring in too much. I do. It's amazing. It's amazing. And I think that that is the next

step in this conversation. Like all of a sudden we've really gotten good about it. But now we have to start a look at like, why am I buying? You know, I was the other day, I was with a family member who can be a little button pushy. I'll say that gently. And we were in a shopping situation and I was getting a little triggered, as the kids say. And I found myself shopping. I was like shopping. Shopping. I got in my car. And I was like, why did I buy all this stuff? I don't need any of it. And I was like, oh, I was having bad feelings and I wanted to escape them. And so I think that when we start to equate that we're using shopping to to soothe ourselves. It's like,

oh, right, that's what's going on. Yeah. I know for a fact that I acquire as, like I see gifts as love. That's my love language. Hang down, like hands up. Yeah, no parents. You're like two out of two on the quiz, love language. Oh my gosh. Accept service, acts of service, gift giving, gift giving.

Gift giving and acts of service. Those are totally. Totally, my two. Oh, top things. And so that's how my parents, they worked a lot. I didn't see them a lot. That's how they showed me that they loved me. They bought me things and they bought me food, a lot of junk food. And as I got older, I'm like, well, I have problems with too much stuff and issues with my weight. And yet, I do this not only to my own children, this is how I show them love, but how I show love to myself. So if I'm like, I deserve something, good girl. cast you reward i buy myself like donuts candy or something like a shirt or something new and i really am telling myself that this is love i my brain wires are are wired in a way that this is love and that's hard a hard cycle to break but the first step is recognizing it and so that's what you talk about is the clutter magnets like realizing why this is coming in and i think clutter And whether it's over shopping, over eating, over spending, it all kind of goes together, doesn't it? Absolutely. And by the way, that's clutter magnet number four, big love, that we're trying to find love or give love through stuff.

I have two small, I mean, not small, six and eight nieces and nephews, who I love, love, love, love, love. Every time I'd go to visit them, I'd fill my suitcases with little fun things and toys. and I found that like the last couple times, like they would not even barely say hi. They'd just like, hunk, like jump on the suitcase. And I was like, oh, I'm part of the problem. You know, so I just stopped. I stopped bringing stuff for a couple trips. And guess what?

First thing, they're like, can I show you my new bike? Come ride, come play outside with me. Like, let's go in the playroom in color. And I was like, right, this is on me to create an atmosphere where we can connect, like, talk and not make it be about the stuff. And I think, look, I'm not saying don't buy things. I love things. I love pretty things. I love a pretty purse. But I am saying, what's really going on? What do you think you're going to fix? Or what are you trying to fix by the shopping that leads to the clutter? Before we hear more from Tracy and her amazing words of wisdom when it comes to just lightning the load in our

lives and in her home. I have to thank today's podcast sponsor, Earth Breeze. Earth Breeze really made me think about something that I had never thought about before, which is just why is laundry soap come in such huge plastic containers? Even when I bought Tidepods, it would be this huge plastic bucket. And 90% of what's actually in the Tide Pots or the liquid is water. And so such a waste, such a waste, not only for the environment, but for space in my home. So I switched to Earth Breeze and there's no going back. Earth Breeze basically looks like drier sheets, but every single one is a washing solution. And it works and dissolves 100% whether it's hot or cold water. It's really actually cost effective because you're not paying for the excess water or the big container. But it smells so good, you guys, and does such an incredible job

cleaning your laundry. If you want to give Earth Breeze a try, for yourself right now. You can save 40% off just for my listeners. Go to earthbreeze.com slash clutterbug to get started. That's earthbreeze.com slash clutterbug for 40% off. Earthbreeze.com slash clutterbug. Okay. So what's another magnet besides big love that you see that's really, really common of why we're bringing in stuff we don't need, even on a subconscious level? And I do, believe that we are bringing in without even realizing it. Oh, without even realizing. Definitely strong self-confidence. We're trying to magnetize self-confidence. If I see the word anti-aging slapped on a product one more time. Okay. So to like make us feel better about ourselves.

Right. You know, when we have those clients that we go in and they have a bathroom vanity covered with every lotion and potion. And look, I love a good sunscreen. I love a good moisturizer. But if there was a magic pill, if there was a magic bullet, someone would have found it. So it's that self-respect. I see that a lot around shopping, buying labels, you know, driving fancy cars. I've got all this stuff and this is who I am.

And what I'm saying to people in the book make space for happiness is figure out why your shopping and can you fill that some other way? Like, look, acts of service is your love language. Can you fill that by, you know, doing something nice for a neighbor, volunteering, helping someone out who needs your help? Then what happens is if you start to fill those holes in a different way, all of a sudden shopping's like, I can a little bit take it or leave it. But when we're using the shopping to reward ourselves, and I do it to a girl,

I am like, it was a hard day. I deserve a new pair of tennies. You know, I want to, you know, and so it's about like actually what's healthier for me. You know what's healthier for me? Going on a really nice walk with my husband to be. That's healthier. That's a better reward. We haven't seen each other all week.

We've both been working. We're feeling a little disconnected. I'm shopping to do something. Let's take an hour. Let's go walk as the sunsets and reconnect. And then all of a sudden you're like, I don't need that new sweater. That's not.

Yeah, that's not. Be more mindful. You're right. And more intentional about all the buying. This is easier said than done. I definitely notice a trend with my clients that we're all looking for shortcuts. We're busy. We're busy.

And life feels overwhelming. And so if we feel unhealthy or we want to lose weight, it's easy to go and buy a bunch of keto food or protein powder, protein bars, or workout gear and like yoga pants. And then it feels like that's like taking a step forward, right? Yeah. When what we're really doing is just filling our home. So we're kind of like making ourselves feel better and buying the things in hope that this is going to motivate us, make a difference, get us closer.

But we can never really buy our way out of any issues. It just complicates. It overcomplicates. I can not tell you how many kitchens I've decluttered and we've had to throw out boxes and boxes and boxes of protein powder that is all expired. Tell me you're seeing the same thing. Oh, absolutely. And it also feels like, oh, things are out of control. I'm working too much. My weight. My eating is out of control.

If I get a spiralizer and a vitamin mix and 10 kinds of protein powder, it'll fix it. We feel like we're fixing the problem. When we all know, we all know that it's not the gadgets and it's not the, it's putting on your tennis shoes. It's putting down the food that's not good for us, putting on your tennis shoes and walking or going to the gym. And we want the shortcuts, but the problem is the shortcuts are what lead to the excess. If I buy this thing, X will happen. It doesn't.

It really doesn't. And so I want people to, like you said, change our mindset to be accountable and to be like, oh, I want to make this change. can I make this change without buying a bunch of stuff? Right. We can't we can't buy our way out of clutter and we can't buy our way to a smaller butt. This is what I've, these are the two things. It's like life lessons over here.

We also can't buy our way to a cleaner house. I remember when my house was really dirty and cluttered. I would say to my husband, I just need a new vacuum cleaner. That's the problem, right? Or like I have to try all these. The messiest homes in the world have or the dirtiest homes have the most cleaning supplies. Because we do. We're like this.

We, I got to fix this at the store. Well, and also hard lesson. Absolutely. Or this one. I mean, tell me if I had a nickel for every, I'd be living in Hawaii, you know, the clients that say, oh, I just need a bigger home. If I just had a bigger home. And I'm like, if you have a bigger home, you will fill that up to.

too. You will fill that big girl. You will fill it up. So how do you understand that this is the space I live in? This is how much I have. I got to make my life work. I've been saying this for a very long time. I say it to my clients all the time. Your home at its core is a tool. It's a tool to get you rested, replenish you, refuel you, connect you with your family. and if you have too much stuff, it's not working. This isn't a right or wrong. This isn't a looks better on Pinterest. This has nothing to do with that. We have been in cluttered homes.

They don't work. Your family isn't successful. You aren't successful. Your stresses off the charts. You can't find anything. You're spending money to buy things you already have. It's that I want your home to work for you. That's what we're all saying.

You know, that's what we're really doing. And I think sometimes the message has gotten a little loss. and it has to look a certain way. And I love it to look like, I'm looking at your bookshelf behind you. It's like, oh, those labels, you know it's in those boxes. It's great. It's functional. And it also looks pretty.

But looking pretty is not the end game. Having your home work is the end game. Yeah, preach. I 100% agree with you. I would say 90% of my spaces are not Pinterest worthy, but they stay tidy all the time. So I have the decluttering down. I learned that. Like it, it feels amazing to have less. I have more time. I have more energy. I have more self-confidence. Every time I declutter, I get that little adrenaline rush to that little, like, oh, I feel proud of myself. This feels good. I need to work on the bringing inside. And so a few days ago, I decorated for Easter. And I went to the dollar store. And I was like making all these crafts. And it was great. but my house was like epically trashed i brought out my easter totes i don't as a decluttering expert

i should not have multiple easter toads but i digress i do and i felt physically ill by the end of the the second night and i knew it wasn't like oh am i getting the flu and i'm like what's wrong why am i so exhausted i felt almost like my heart was racing like what is going on it was because my house was cluttered. It was because my house was not in control. I was feeling this physical effect of almost like not panic, but this drowning feeling. And I hear this all the time. I'm being suffocated. I'm drowning. I can't catch my breath. I felt that with only two days in a messy space. But it's almost like you don't, you can't correlate it until you've dug your way out. Does that make sense?

Like you don't know that this is why you're feeling anxious and stressed and overwhelmed and tired all the time until you've actually lived in a clutter-free space for a while to really see the difference. Oh, absolutely. I mean, first of all, those words are the words I hear. I can't breathe. I can't catch my breath. I feel like my throat is closing.

I'm, you know, and it's like, that's overwhelmed. That's literally the definition of overwhelm. You are overwhelmed. Your adrenals are shot. You're living in fight or flight. I always do an exercise with clients to say, like, you know, where do you love to go? Like, if you had a weekend away and almost always, they sort of say a spa or a hotel. And I'm like, why do you think that you like to go there?

And they're like, oh, because none of this stuff is there. Like there's nothing. You walk into a hotel room and you're like, look at those white sheets and that bed. you know. It's relaxing. It's relaxing. And so I think that that's another reason that I really like people to start with one space instead of trying to, again, if you try and do your whole home in a weekend, it's not going to happen.

So you'll fail and then you'll beat yourself up and that'll be a terrible cycle. But if you can do one little space and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, this is what it feels like. This is what it feels like to open the junk drawer and know that my. tape and my tape measure and my scissors and not, you know, 12-year-old gum and, you know, Dave and Buster coupons and my kids are now in college. Like, like take a little space and live with it and celebrate your success and go, oh, right, this works better. I feel better. And that's what's going to motivate you to the next step. And we have to build decluttering muscles.

It does. As somebody who lived, like I was living with a lot of clutter. It's hard at first to let go. And you have all those clutter blocks, right? Definitely go to Tracy's website and check out her book to learn your clutter block. But getting push, you have to push through. There's no going around. There's no shortcut. We're pushing through. But it does take time. So we're starting small because we're building our muscle. And every time we let go, it gets a little stronger and a little bit easier. So we can make a big, big impact. But I also have to just say going from a really cluttered space to then I remember, I will never forget, I did a big declutter. And I got rid of a ton of stuff. My living room felt really kind of empty. And that felt weird to me. It's almost like when you take down the Christmas decorations and you look around and your space feels empty and you have this like, what's wrong? Like it feels, I want to encourage you if you're listening.

to this that that's a normal feeling and to live with it. Yeah. And also to, to, I was, that's such a great place. Oh my God. That casts such good information because first of all, like, not everybody's good at this. Like it's a, for a lot of people, it's a learned behavior. And guess what? That doesn't make you a bad person. That doesn't, like if I, you know, I joke about this all the time. I'm like, I'm terrible at gardening. I love a beautiful garden. I'm terrible at it. I kill a plant.

I'm no good at it. I've had to bring someone in to help make the yard look the way I want. It doesn't make me good or bad. So it is a muscle that you have to work and it is going to feel strange. And that's such a good point about the post-decluttering. I always tell people, especially if you do a big, big job, to say like, go easy on yourself. You're going to be exhausted. Things are going to feel weird.

But focus on what do you want to fill the space with that's not stuff? Do you want to fill it with your grandkids coming over for the holidays? Do you want to just have some peace and quiet? Like focus on what you're gaining from letting go. And that'll sort of help you go, oh, right, this does feel really good. Because, you know, the clutter is a lot of noise. It's a lot of background noise. So if you've been living in a cluttered space for a long time, it's loud.

It's really loud. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, it's so quiet in here. And you're like, is it too quiet? So I've had so many people say, I decluttered and I didn't feel that initial joy. I felt like I missed my stuff at first. And I'm telling you that this is very normal, but it goes away. You then become used to this clutter-free space and used to the piece and used to this the serenity and that feels so much better than living in chaos but that transition can be

jarring for some people and it can just takes time like when we take down the Christmas decorations we're like I better go shopping and buy some stuff to fill up this and then you know it's Valentine's day next I have to fill that with a valentine's but after a week later you're like oh this actually feels nice yeah and it's an adjustment period totally and I think that we're so hard on ourselves, you know, especially if you come from being what, you know, people have called you messy or people have called, you know, that if you self-identify that, there's such negative connotation. And, you know, I deal with so many people like you who have who were undiagnosed with ADHD, who have a bit of OCD, which the interesting thing about

OCD is that can also result in a super cluttered house. It's not. Everyone thinks it's like, oh, perfect. It's like, oh, no, no, no. So I really want people to change the languaging. You're not messy. You're not a slob. You're not, you know, you didn't have the tools. And good for you that you're making a change in your life.

Do you know how hard it is to make a change in your life? Let's not talk bad about you. Let's go. We're here today. You were a person. You did a thing. Your house was messy. You're making a change.

That's what we need to focus on. that's what we need to encourage that you have the wherewithal to be like, this isn't working. I want to make a change. Yeah. And your house didn't get cluttered overnight. It certainly isn't going to become clutter free overnight. This is not a project. It's a way of life.

Right. It is just like you are now an organized tidy person. This is what I had to tell myself, right? Like I'm like, what would a tidy organized person do? And that would slowly do. that thing. It's like a fake it till you make it practice till it became reality type of situation. And I still got some ways to go with when it comes to bringing things in. But I can honestly say for the past decade, I always know where everything is and I can find it quickly and I can put

it away quickly. And I don't feel that crushing anxiety that I felt a few days ago when I allowed my house to get out of control. And it wasn't even that bad. It was like a bunch of stuff spread out and I didn't put away laundry for a couple days because I was so into crafting. I got really like hyper focused into crafting. But that feeling was how I lived on a daily basis and didn't even know it. And I had to dig my way out. And once you're out, man, it's like the, it's like the curtains been lifted. You've seen behind. You're like, wow. I had a, you'll love this. I had a client, a married couple and he, he's the messy one of it. and we redid his office.

And he's a journalist. So he has a lot of information and wants to keep things. So we made this amazing filing system for sort of articles. And he does a lot of historical stuff. So things go way back. And he was like cutting something out of the newspaper. And his wife was, you know, the breakfast table. And she was, I got this text afterwards.

She's sort of giving the stink eye. Like, well, that's not going to live on the diet. And he's like, no, this goes in my file about, you know, 68 Mustang. for that article and ran out to his filing cabinet and put it in. And he texted me, he goes, I don't think my wife has ever been more in love with me than she was in that moment. It was so great. But it was like that freedom, and this is the key word, I think, the freedom that I know where this lives. I know where to put it away. And when I need it again, I know where to go get it. Like that is just like, oh, this is great.

I need that thing and I know where it is. I'm not scrambling. We're not yelling at each other. Who's seen the where's my or buying it again? And that's the thing. Like, that's why we do this. That's why we do this. That's why we do this.

And we have to make time for it. And we always think it's going to take longer than it is. I just had, I was working with a friend of mine, Ellen, and she was taking me on a tour of her house. And she wanted to work in the storage room. And I was like, do you have any other rooms like where we can. and put some of this stuff if things you want to keep. And she opened up this spare bedroom that I kid you not, just had bins and bins and bins stacked to the ceiling. And my heart, I was like, what is this? And we made a plan. And I met her two weeks later, two weeks later.

And all in all of those bins were photographs that she was going to scrapbooks someday. She loved being a photographer, but she had never got to it. Two weeks later, that room was transformed into a scrapbooking studio. All of her photos were organized. I cried like a baby. But the thing is, sometimes we just need to get started. We think something's going to take forever. And when I said to her, Ellen, how long have you been dreaming about having a scrapbooking room? Like, how long have you been putting off this project? 21 years? Yeah. She's been thinking. about it, it took two weeks to get it done. And that's the reality of all of our situations. We spend so much time just beating ourselves up about the mess. We just need to pick up a trash bag and get started.

Absolutely. And that's that's such a good, like all of a sudden you're like, oh, this didn't take as long as I thought. Like the amount of time, you know, you put off procrastinating and beating yourself up and and also understanding, and I think this is super important to, and you've said this, versions of this in this conversation is it's not going to stay decluttered. Stuff is going to come in. You know, kids are like little Velcro balls that you send them out into the world and they come back just stuck with, you're like, how did that happen? I sent you out with nothing.

How did you come back with triple the stuff? You know, it's going to happen. So, you know, you've got to, it's a practice. It's a practice. Decluttering is a practice, organizing is a practice. Just like cleaning your house, it's a practice. And you do it and you, you know, I always say to people, if you can't get a room back to the way you like it, like tidy it up and put everything away in 20 minutes or less, the stuff has gotten an upper hand. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I've had so many clients say, well, I got rid of one box. You'd be so proud of me. And I'm like, one box a day is okay. Right? Like, it's, It's almost mind-boggling how much you actually have to let go of to make a difference. And when I do a client's home, it's usually I fill my van plus another truckload of stuff just to make a difference. And it's shocking, isn't it? It's shocking.

My company has a 17-foot moving truck. And there are plenty of jobs that we fill the whole thing. Furniture from the garage, stuff from the backyard. Like it's, you know, we, we joke and we always call it like the clown car of clutter because we're just like, where is this coming from? Where is it coming from? Yeah. Even if your space doesn't feel like, oh, like it's not like you're, it's nothing like hoarders. Like what are you talking about? It doesn't feel cluttered. I guarantee you have boxes and boxes and boxes and multiple, multiple trash bags of things that need to still leave your home for it to be a place that isn't constant work. You feel like when you're home, you're always tiding, you're always cleaning, you're always looking for things, you're always stuff shuffling. Vandfuls, truckfuls, boxes full of things need to leave in order for your home to not feel like work anymore for it to feel effortless to maintain. We always have to do dishes and laundry. Let's be honest.

Of course. It's not going to, but, Cass, that's such an amazing point that I want to sink into people, that that's the goal. The goal is for your home to not be more work than just daily maintenance, right? That's the goal. Not the Pinterest page, not the perfect picture. That's the goal. And when people take that mindset on, it's like, oh, right, that's the goal. This is why I want this. My life, my family, my home, even if I live by myself, it's going to run smoother. And then I'm going to feel better. That's the goal. And I feel like sometimes, especially on social media, our profession has gotten away from that. And it's all about how it looks. And I'm like, I don't care. I don't care. If your house is easy for you to live in, like, you know, I had a client recently who

loved roosters. She loved them. She had them everywhere. They made her so happy. We got rid of a lot of roosters, the ones she didn't love as much, the ones that were pretty tidy. It was more roosters than I. I would be comfortable with, but she loves it. You keep those roosters. Yeah. And she had them displayed. And

when she got rid of the junky ones and the ones that she bought it, that, you know, when she kind of cleaned out the collection, she was like, oh, this makes me so happy. This is my favorite rooster. You know, so it's about, and she wasn't exactly what you said. She wasn't stuff shuffling, like moving things to dust or get to other things. And so that's the goal. It's not about how it looks. And it certainly isn't about, like I hear this quite often. There's a minimalist movement and I think it's great and inspiring. But listen, it's not about, well, how many towels do I need per person or how many plates should I have or tell me exactly to the point of each. That's not what decluttering and home management is about. It isn't a number. Everybody's different. What it's really about is, are you using this thing and do you love it? And that's it. And those things are mixed in with good stuff. So we get confused sometimes because we look at a closet and we think, oh, but I love all my clothes. But have you looked at each individual piece? When is the last time you really looked at your stuff and you're going to find a lot of it? I'm going to say 40% of it if I'm being real. Easy. is things that you don't love and use. It's just mixed in with the good stuff.

I did a really interesting experiment the other day. I work with a woman who's a stylist just twice a year like a little closet refresh. And I will highly recommend it because interestingly, I spend less on clothes than I did before because everything we buy together, it fits. She helps me get it tailored. Like I'm not buying things in a panic. I know what works. The colors. It's great. we did a big I hadn't seen her in about a year because of just life and so we did a big closet audit and I got rid of exactly bags and I'm you know I'm pretty like I think I think my closet's pretty razor sharp I got rid of stuff but I also did something which I have never done before I had about 20 pieces that were very nice pieces I was honestly just they fit me they were great I was honestly just

sort of sick of them like I'd been looking at them for a while. So I moved them into the guest room closet. I'm like, I'm not ready to let go of these. I'm just a little sick of them. I moved them to the guest room closet and I put a calendar alert and I think it's in one month. I'm going to revisit it and see if I, by the way, I have not gone to that closet once to look for something in there. Not once. Not once. So in a month, I'm going to go and revisit it. Yeah. I probably, honestly, I'll probably get rid of half of it because I have not thought about one thing in there, but I wasn't quite ready to let go of those pieces and I had the space that I could tuck them for a little bit. But I haven't thought

about one of them. A closet's such a good place to start. It's such a good place to start because if you're opening up your closet and it's full of clothes and you're thinking, I have nothing to wear, it's because you have too much. Because when our space is full, it's like we can. It's like we can't see the good stuff. Not everything is an option. And I'm going to tell you, I put on a sweater today and it was too short. And I can't tell you how many times I put on this sweater. And I'm like, it's just a little too cropped for me. And what did I do, Tracy? I put it back on the hangar and I put it back in the closet to play this game again next time. What am I? Is my torso going to shrink? I need to get rid of it. It isn't an option. The only thing it's doing is wasting my time.

me feel bad. I do have a rule. I do have a rule. If I put something on three times and I take it off, like, don't, out it goes. Three times. It just, you just, and exactly. And it's so funny. And you go like, well, maybe I'll be able to make it work. And it's like you said, maybe if I'm not, maybe I'm just a hanger. It looks, I don't care if it looks great on a hanger. But I think, leave my house. But I think you said something really valuable, Cass, is that if you look in your closet and you think I have nothing to wear, my experience like yours is that means you have too much stuff. Not too little. The people who are like, I can't find anything. Yeah, not the opposite. You would think like if I have, I find. But we think I have to go shopping. But experience has showed us both. No,

we have to declutter. Yeah, exactly. My closet is. the best when I have less. And I know everything in there fits me. These are the colors I wear. I'm not going, you know, it's just like, oh, getting dressed is easy. I adopted for work with clients. I adopted a uniform. I wear, I have four pairs of the exact same jeans. Exactly. They fit me. They're cropped. I can wear my tennies. I can, they're perfect. And I wear these. They are called lace shirt. And I have, I think five of them, one for each day of the week. And I wear them. every day for work when I go see a client. And the great thing is, I go in my closet, they sit in the front, I don't have to think about it. I get impressed at the dry cleaner.

And that is just off my plate. It's off my plate. And it is so easy. Like, this is what I wear. I'm feeling inspired to go to go declutter my closet right now. And I hope you're listening. It is. It's a good place to start. Take out one piece at a time. You don't have to take it all out and throw it on your bed that we don't have to condo our closet to have a really big difference. We pull it one at a time, look at it and just be like, do I, is this an option for me today? Do I love it? Do I look good in this? And if not, then we throw it on the bed because it's leaving or we're going to put it in the guest room. So at least it's not taking away from the clothes that we are loving and the actual options in our closet. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know. And

really just this idea of starting small. Like if you're overwhelmed, if you're out there listening, if you're like, I listen to all these podcasts and I follow everybody and I, how do I, I mean, you must get this all the time too. How do I start? How do I start? You just start small. You take a trash bag. You take a donation box and you just start one drawer, one drawer, one little section of the closet. Just start small. Small. Yeah. And trust your gut. trust your gut when i'm helping people declutter their home i never tell them what to keep and what not to keep i look at their body language because they know they're like this they look at they hold up a sweater and they go like i think i love this and i'm like do you they make a shame yeah they kind of

curl in because they know or they hesitate and they him and hot if it isn't a hard yes it's a hard no it's got to go oh tracy you're wonderful Thank you so much for joining me today. Please let my listeners know where they can find you and all about your new book and where they can purchase that. Absolutely. So tracy macubbin.com, MCCUBB-B-I-N is my website. I've got the clutter block quiz up there. Take it. It's super interesting. I also have, if you sign it for my newsletter, I have a PDF of 25 things you can declutter in under five minutes. And then TikTok and Instagram. Instagram is at Tracy underscore McCubbin. TikTok is Tracy McCubbin. I do about two to three, five minute challenges.

We have a lot of fun. I keep it short and sweet and super positive. And the new book is called Make Space for Happiness, how to stop attracting clutter and start magnetizing the life you want. It's available at every place that you buy books, Amazon up in Canada. You guys are, indigo.

What are you up in? Yes. Oh, look at you. Yes, it is. I'm going to go get that book because let me tell you, that's my issue. I've got the decluttering down. I've got the organizing down. I have to stop the bringing in. Yeah, it's great. So I love chatting with you. I've been a fan for a long time. Thank you for everything that you do and you keep the world sunny and organized. Thank you for being here, Tracy. You're so inspiring. And I'm serious. You guys head over, follow her on social media because every time she

posts, you're going to get up and you're going to let something go. And thank you for listening. We'll see you guys next time.