Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast - You Don’t Need More Time - You Need Less Noise: Simplify with Courtney Carver | Clutterbug Podcast # 272

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

If you're exhausted from trying to do it all — keeping the house clean, showing up for everyone, working, and staying “on” — you're not alone. Maybe you're craving peace, space, or just one quiet moment to breathe… but you don’t know where to start. In this episode, I sit down with the incredibly inspiring Courtney Carver — bestselling author of Soulful Simplicity and Gentle — who completely transformed her life after a diagnosis of MS forced her to slow down, simplify, and let go of what wasn’t serving her. We dive into what it really means to declutter—not just your home, but your calendar, your mind, your expectations, and your heart. Courtney shares how she found more health, creativity, love, and presence by doing LESS… and how you can too. If you’ve ever felt like you’re drowning in commitments, noise, or stuff—and you just want to feel like yourself again—this episode is for you. ✨ We chat about: How to simplify when you're completely overwhelmed Why your self-worth is not measured by how much you do Creating boundaries with your time, energy, and emotions The power of starting small — and starting gently The life-changing magic of Project 333 Simple, soulful shifts that will help you breathe again 🌿 Connect with Courtney: → Website: https://bemorewithless.com → Instagram: @bemorewithless → Grab her new book Gentle: Rest More, Stress Less, and Live the Life You Actually Want — available everywhere books are sold! 👇 What’s one thing you’re ready to let go of—physically or emotionally? Drop it in the comments. Let’s release it together.   #clutterbug #declutteryourlife #gentlesimplicity #courtneycarver #soulfuldimplicity #podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's podcast hit me in a way that was unexpected, if I'm being honest. It's like, oh, I felt emotional while having this incredible interview because I needed this. I needed to hear this message and I hope you feel the same way. Today I am so excited to be joined by someone who has helped millions of people and I've heard from you so many different comments. you have to talk to the amazing Courtney Carver. Courtney is known for being an incredible author. She is the author of the Fashion Project 33, Soulful Simplicity, and a new book coming out called Gentle.

Not only does she have best-selling books, but she's also the pioneer in the simplicity movement. And I can't wait to dive in and for you to hear all of her wisdom. her insights and just a different way of looking at simplifying your life because it's so much more than just decluttering this stuff. Welcome Courtney to the Clutterbug podcast. I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. You feel Zen to me and your background feels Zen. I love it. I've been reading your blog. I'm just such a huge fan. You're helping millions of people simplify their life. I feel like you're also embodying it. You're not just saying it. You're living it, which is so

I mean, I think we almost have to do that. It would be so exhausting to say one thing and do another. I just don't have the energy for that. So I have to be all in. Have you always been a person who like lived a simple life or was there like a past hectic life, Courtney? Yes. I have pre simplicity Courtney who was just wildly busy and overcapacity and over-extended in every way, financially, energetically, time-wise, every way. I was just like, yes, yes, yes, I can do that. Sure, I can schedule back-to-back meetings for 10 years and still be a human.

Wasn't healthy, definitely wasn't simple. I never even really considered simplifying my life, even when my life completely changed. In 2006, I was diagnosed with MS during a really super stressful time of my life. And so much of the research that I did when I wasn't freaking out was about how stress reduction, less stress, really helped with reduced relapses. and so that became my new focus was eliminating as much stress as possible. And at some point, I started to connect the dots and realized that at the heart of all of the changes that I was making, it was simplifying simplicity. I don't know a lot about MS.

Is this an autoimmune disease? It is. And it affects people so differently. There's no like one version of MS. It can affect your vision. It can affect your cognitive skills. It can affect your ability to walk and move and really can be really impactful in a negative way. But there are also a lot of great treatments available.

And now that we know so much more about taking care of ourselves, there are options. I mean, I haven't had a relapse since 2008. and I have regular scans of my brain and they are not changing, which is really great. I feel very fortunate to be in this situation. And really, without that diagnosis, I think I would just still be going, you know, full throttle all the time and having even other health issues. So I'm really grateful for it. Yeah, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto.

which is an autoimmune disease. Well, after I just had my baby, and my internist said it was sort of like the stress of being pregnant and all the extra hormones that kind of flick that switch. And then I still notice in my life when I am overwhelmed or taking on too much, that's when I have a flare up. That's when my thyroid swells. That's when I break out in rash from head to toe.

Like my immune system doesn't handle stress well. And I don't know if that's just me or if there is a correlation between, you know, just, we're just taking on so much and our body kind of reacts in this physical way when our, when our brain is just over. I mean, I've yet to talk to anyone who is like, oh, yeah, my body's great with extreme stress all the time. So whether or not you have a formal diagnosis, I think all of us are or have at one point been managing too much, trying to get too much done.

and are really caught in that cycle of like, I have to do it all with a smile on my face. And it's our bodies are like, no, we're not doing that anymore. Our bodies are like, no, because our brains are too stubborn to do it for ourselves. Yeah, they're too stubborn. So what did your early days look like? Your early days of, okay, I need to simplify my life because I know for myself, I'm great at like decluttering now and having less, but I'm not so. great at simplifying other areas. Did you just rip the Band-Aid off and go like full-stop boundaries?

Or were you like slowly picking away at this transformation? I wanted to. I really wanted to just like completely revolutionize my life. But I realized that that was usually my approach to change in life. And it hadn't gotten me very far. And so I decided this time that in an effort to not continue to stress myself out and not to stress my family out with great change, that I would go really slowly and do one thing at a time, take tiny steps, and figure it out as gently as possible. And that was my approach and it still is today. So it took me years to become clutter free, to become debt free, and even longer to leave. And, a very hectic workplace and create new work for myself and then even longer to look at things

like drinking and cutting out all alcohol or really changing the way that I slept, just taking care in a new way. And I feel like the slower I go, the more opportunity there is to notice what's happening and open up more space for. or even better things to happen. I love that. I want to slow down. I feel like I've gotten to a place where I just can't anymore. I can't go.

I keep saying yes to everything. I keep piling more on and then thinking, you just need better time management skills, or you just need to stay up a little bit later, or you just need to try. And no, I think it is the less that I need. and you're just such an expert of that. So my listeners listening and me, you're going to put on your therapist hat for a minute.

Where is a place that we can start that slow, but what change can we make or what things can we start doing to start seeing that progress into a more simplified life? Well, I think the first thing is really noticing what's going on, just like you said, this is too much. And that, saying that, whether you're saying it out loud or to yourself, like, this is too much, this isn't working, I don't feel well, I don't like this, get me out of this, those are all like messages that we are thinking, it's our inner wake-up call to make a change. And I think if when you put that against society's message of you're just not productive enough.

You don't know all the productivity hacks. Your time management is really poor. It's always you. Like, you're the problem. And you're not. It's actually that there is way too much on your plate, way too much for a human to handle. Like, we all have the upper limit of that's enough. And we love to push through that.

And that's normally when we get sick, get angry, get frustrated, whatever. So I think the first step is really paying attention. And then the next step is if you could carve out five minutes in your day to ask yourself, like, what is the gentlest thing I could do for myself right now? And then actually do it. Usually it's something so tiny like get a drink of water, stretch your legs, scream into your pillow.

I don't know. But whatever it is, you can ask an answer within those five minutes, and that is enough to demonstrate to yourself that you can start taking care of yourself. So I think we have to start small and we have to start somewhere. So why not just ask ourselves what we need and then give it to ourselves? Is this kind of what you define soulful simplicity as? because I hear a lot of people talk about minimalism, but I love that you are like soulful simplicity. That feels so different. Yeah. So the first title, the title of my first book

is soulful simplicity and the title of my most recent book is called Gentle. And I think both of them kind of go together and gentle is really the next level of soulful simplicity in terms of taking care of ourselves, resting more, making space for ourselves. and not just for the sake of making space, not just for the sake of resting, but also to be able to rise into the creative projects we're interested in, the causes we want to stand up for, the lives we actually want to live instead of getting caught in this, like I call it autopilot living, where we're just reacting to everything that's thrown in our direction.

We can break out of that, and I won't say, It's easy, but once you're out, it's so much easier to exist. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It feels good. That feels good. I feel like we know in our heart maybe what we're really needing, but we turn it off. We stop listening to it.

My husband said the other day, he said, why don't you just stop making a video every week on YouTube? Because you're obviously feeling really stressed. And I was like, I couldn't possibly do that. I can't. And he's like, why? What would happen? I was like, I don't know. I'd lose everything.

Everything would blow up. The whole business would go under. And he was like, is that true? And of course it isn't true. We put these expectations on ourselves without really even knowing why sometimes. We just keep saying, yes, I'll go to that meeting. I'll volunteer. I'll bake the cookies.

Yeah, I'll come to this party when everything inside of us. is screaming, maybe say no. Yes, that's true. Do you think there is a common misconception about simplifying that makes people like me kind of say, I don't think I can do this or resist? Is there like a miscon, is there some reason we're so resistant to actually? Yeah, simplifying. Yeah, I think there's kind of a core reason that we don't.

do that, that we don't pull back, that we don't slow down. And we say it's because we're really busy. And that's probably true. You're very busy. But also it's because we tend to measure who we are by what we accomplish. And our self-worth is rooted in how much we get done. And that's how we're proving ourselves to everyone around us. And so that gets all wrapped up with the like over-caring of what people think of what we do, even though they're not even really paying attention most of the time, and how we prove it to ourselves. It's why at the end of the day, we don't go to bed at our adult bedtime. Instead, we stay up to do one more thing, which we know one more thing is a total lie. Like, it's never one more thing. It's never just a sec. Like, anytime I say, I'm just

going to check my email for a couple minutes. An hour later, I'm like, what, what am I doing in here? Nothing. Or we say the same thing about scrolling Instagram, all these things we think are just going to take a minute. They take a lot longer, not only of our time, but of our brain. So I think that once we acknowledge that, we can start to look at ways we can pull back. And there are more opportunities than you might think. I mean, it's, it almost sounds like it's easy for me to say now. My daughter's grown. She's 29. She takes care of herself. We have a small house to manage. I work for myself. But I started this journey, you know, on the heels of this MS diagnosis, working wild hours, raising a daughter, taking care of a giant house,

tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Like it was the most stressful time in my life, the time that you would think is the worst time to make a change. And it was the only time to make the change. So I feel like that moment that you know, that you hear that you have to take care of yourself and you think, I don't have time for that, that is the moment that you have to take care of yourself.

And when you were saying earlier, like sometimes we don't we know what's best but we don't hear it we can't because we're so busy and i think we know if we slow down we will hear it and that's scary because when you really hear it you really have to do something about it i also think for me like it's hard i have a hard time knowing what to slow down on what to give up what's important and what's not because i could say, oh, I'm not going to, I'm just going to let the laundry pile and I'm not going to do the dishes. And I'm just, but I know for myself, like, that's not good for my mental health. Because when I walk into the kitchen that's destroyed, I feel like worse. Does that make sense?

I do. Of course. So I don't think that's it. And I'm like, well, I have to work. Is there a thing that you're like, what are these little steps that we can take? Part of me thinks it might just be no to the extras, that's a good place to start. What do you think? Yeah, I think that's a great place to start, like saying no to anything that isn't essential. If it doesn't have to get done, it's not getting done. And I know what you mean. Like, does the laundry really have to get folded? Probably not, but it probably bothers you if it's not folded. So it's really looking at it. But it has to get washed. Yeah. It would bother me to have a mountain of dirty laundry. course. Yeah. So it's really that extra, the extra things. There are a lot of extra things. And it's not

just the extra things that you do, but the extra things that surround you, the extra things that your family's doing, the extra things that you are worried about, you know, where can you turn down the stress level on that and how can you? Is it through taking some time to journal? Do you have a lot of extra time for social media or watching mind? endless TV, you know, not that either of those things are bad, but if you're in a moment of crisis and you need some time for yourself, maybe you're going to have to say no to some of those things for a minute and catch up on your rest, get back into a good sleep habit because everything is easier to manage when you are well rested. It's easier to determine what's important and what's

not important once you've had a good night of sleep or 10 or 30. But when you're underslept, everything is just so hard to decipher and the puzzle pieces don't really come together. So that's that's kind of where I think it is. And then making a list of all of the stressful things that you want to change and starting with one of them. And I don't even think it really matters where you start, I recommend either starting with the place you're most interested and curious about or the place that is the most stressful. For me, I mean, being in debt was just so much stress. And I knew it would take a long time, but I wanted to start there. And so once that kind of really getting aggressive paying down our debt became kind of the new normal, then I could

look at things like clutter or the next most stressful thing in my life. And that's kind of how I approach it now. When I'm feeling overwhelmed, I kind of do a little download on paper. Like, what is it that's really stressing me out here? And I can't always identify it right away. I just, I just might feel anxious about something that I have no control over. But it's really good for me to know that because then I don't have to fix anything. I just have to calm my nervous system. So it's really identifying that and paying attention to it and knowing what's going on for you at any given time. So when you start to notice the like I'm overwhelmed or overextended, like what has to go? Something has to give.

I love that. And I hope my listeners right now are really hearing this. Grab a piece of paper and just write down all the things that are stressing you out. right now because I do think you're right we're never intentional about this we kind of oh I'm just stressed but we don't pinpoint the why and just writing it down I think it becomes more apparent like yes this is the big offender and I also love that you talk about maybe a little bit less of the social media and the TV because I at night when I'm done and I'm feeling like I need to just rest I'll sit and plot myself and watch a movie or I'll scroll on my phone, but I don't feel rested. And the other day,

I literally went outside and just sat on a chair and just looked at nature for a very short amount of time and felt rested. So even though we're resting, sometimes social media isn't restful. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's not it's not restful at all. And in fact, I think if you took your heart rate before you started scrolling and afterwards there would be a significant increase. But I know what you mean. Like it is, it feels like the path of least resistance to relax, but then it winds you up. And so I think really knowing what wind you down is helpful. I mean, last night, my husband and I were watching a show before bed.

And I said, you know what? And I have an early bedtime, like ridiculously early. And I said, I'm going to go to bed even earlier tonight because I want time to journal and read. And giving myself that just 15 minutes of extra time to do a little, you know, journaling, get some things off my mind and pick up a book. It was just a great way to end the day. If we can set boundaries, like I think phones and digital engagement has to be on the stress list for all of us. And then if we can set boundaries around that, like nothing first thing in the morning or at the end of the day is perfect. Because our social media, as most of us know, is like just this wild combination of nonstop people posting things you probably don't care about, plus breaking news, plus funny dogs, which I love.

but the funny dogs aren't enough to offset the stuff that riles my nervous system. I think even the screen, when I think about it, riles my nervous system, I was laying a bed with my husband. He's like, let's take the night to enjoy each other's company. And we were cuddling and watching The Last of Us, which is like a zombie show. And then it's like, well, time for bed. I was so worked up. Just like it feels like laying on the couch and watching a TV is relaxed.

but you're right. It actually is like I'm either excited or I'm nervous or I'm I'm feeling what I don't want to feel, which is like peace and restfulness. It's resting, but it's not restful. Just because we're sitting doesn't mean we're actually resting what's important, which is our mind. Right. And then we save that real rest for when we finish everything. We get everything done, which never happens. So we have to prioritize that rest. You can take it without earning it, without deserving it. Take it anytime.

I feel the same way about simple pleasures, like giving ourselves simple pleasures, not because we're bribing ourselves. Like, oh, if I do this workout, then I'm going to give myself this treat. Or when I finish everything on my to-do list, I'm going to let myself go read a book. Like, what if you gave yourself

the simple pleasure first. And then maybe you would feel more relaxed throughout your day. And that relaxation is really going to help you accomplish what you want to accomplish. I mean, maybe not as much. Do we have to do as much as we're doing at the intensity that we're doing it? And I would say no. You're speaking to my soul. I feel like I really needed this conversation because I thought what

I needed to do is just declutter and have less, which let me tell you, changed my life and is an effective tool, but it's so much more than that, that became like another thing that was like a challenge. How much less can I have? Do you know what I mean? Like I somehow even turned that into, you're going to be the best declutterer ever. I'm going to be the bestie clutterer ever. Like what? That is, Cass needs to calm down a little bit. I don't. need a literal chill pill. But I do, I don't want to discount the power of getting the stuff out of the way because it is more to manage and it is stuff that doesn't matter, right? Every, we used to have hobbies piled everywhere in paper and this and my kids' toys and I used to say, oh, well, I got to

clean up, I got to find all the matching pieces for my kids' toys or the two Barbie shoes before I can put them in the bin. I'd be hunting all over for the second Barbie shoe. Like a maniac, right? finding all the game pieces. I should have just threw all of that in the trash because it wasn't making anyone happy. It was only making work. I have to take a quick second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Cozy Earth, because when you prioritize sleep, you prioritize you. Great days, start with better nights. Years ago, I treated myself to new, beautiful, cozy earth sheets. And I have to tell you, it was the first time I felt like a great, great day. And I'm going to be a great, grown up who was spending a little bit to give myself that feeling of luxury. I declared all the

sheets that were scratchy, all the ones that made me feel too hot and just had something that was good quality. They are made of bamboo. Every time I wash them, they get softer. I've had them for years and years and years, no tears, no rips, and their temperature regulating, which I really, really love. I also now have their sleep sets. It's just, it's good quality, but it's different because it makes me feel when I climb into my bed at night. It gives me that like hotel feeling of like, ha. And it's important. A good night's sleep is important and we deserve it. So right now, if you want to give cozy earth a try, visit cozy earth.com and use my coupon clutterbug for 40% off their sheets, towels, pajamas, and more. Again, right here, go to cozy earth.com and use the code clutterbug for 40% off.

When people always in my comments are always raving about you and they say that you have this magical thing called Project 333 and everybody raves about this and they're like, you've got to try this cast. So I would love it if you explained about this because I do think that Project 333 might be a really good place to start for a lot of people who are like, I don't even know what to do and they're making it another job on their list, the idea of decluttering and the project of decluttering. It's one more thing. So Project 333 is a great way to sample simplicity without making. a lot of permanent decisions that can feel overwhelming. And so this is a minimalist fashion challenge that I started back in 2010 because my closet and wardrobe was so overwhelming that I knew that my kind of slow and steady approach wouldn't work. I didn't know what I enjoyed wearing.

I didn't know what I had. I just, it was too much. And it always took me a really long time to get ready for anything. And I also had this shopping habit that went along with that because my stuff always needed more stuff like, oh, a scarf would really complete this outfit. Or all I need is a new pair of shoes to make this look work. Like I told myself so many stories about my clothes. And I also needed to shop for events and seasons and emotions. Like if I had a bad day, I deserve to go shopping. If I had a great day, I would celebrate by picking something up. And this fashion challenge that I decided to do, I'll just tell you the rules. It's you choose 33 items in your wardrobe, including clothes, jewelry, accessories, and shoes.

Wait, including that. I know. Take a breath. Everybody's okay. Usually when I say shoes, everybody hangs up, but we're okay. So clothing, jewelry, accessories, and shoes. That's what's going to make up your 33 items. You don't have to count workout clothes as long as they are working out.

You don't have to include underwear or sleepwear or lounge wear, stuff that you might just wear around the house or you wear to garden or something like that. This is just your day-to-day wardrobe, these 33 items, to start. And then you have that working wardrobe for three months. There are going to be some things you only wear in the very beginning of the three months, depending on your climate, and some things at the very end that you only wear during those three months. When I started this, we had temps ranging from, I think it was like 90 degrees when we started in October, 2010, and then by the end of December it was snowing.

So there are easier seasons than others. Spring, summer, much easier, summer especially because you don't need a winter hat or gloves, depending on where you're practicing. And then for those three months, you're not shopping. And everything that's not in your 33 item wardrobe, you are hiding. So you don't need to donate it or give it away. You don't have to do anything, make any decisions. Am I going to sell it? Am I going to donate it? you're just going to hide it so that you get a chance to see what it's like to open your closet every day with these few items for me with the jewelry accessory shoes it ended up to be like 22 or 23 items of clothes and that was fine and I was working full time in advertising sales back then and I thought for sure like people were going to notice my outfit repeating and my lack of accessorizing and And no one said a word about it.

Nobody noticed. And I was in an industry that if people noticed, they would let you know. I wore the same dress to every, like, work event during the year, any formal event. Not a word. I mean, we just aren't really paying that close of attention to each other. And even with 33 items, some seasons, I don't wear all 33. It's been 15 years since I started this and I still do it. So for me, I do every like three to five months, 33 items.

And it's not a brand new 33 items. I just rotate each capsule collection. So, you know, as we've left winter here, my winter coats put away, my hat and gloves are gone. It's also not a project or a challenge in suffering. So if you're wearing a white shirt out to. dinner and you drop a meatball on your shirt and it ruins it, get a new shirt. Like, don't torture yourself to win. There's no winning. The only prize here is all of the benefits of this challenge, saving money, saving energy, less decision fatigue, less caring about what everyone else thinks

because you know they're not thinking it. I've had people report less anxiety and depression. which is, I never thought I would hear that, but it's remarkable. And I mean, thousands, if not tens of thousands of people around the world have tried this challenge. And it's changed the way people think about their stuff and their shopping and then the rest of their homes. Because, as I'm sure you've noticed, like simplicity is contagious. So if you're like, oh, wow, this is really reduced stress for me. maybe I don't need 12 wire whisks and four wooden spoons. You know what I mean?

Maybe we don't need all the duplicates that we think we do. Or maybe it's okay to let go of the rice cooker that we never use or the punch bowl that we got when, you know, 30 years ago that we've never broken out because I don't know who's making punch anymore. I just don't hear about that. No one has served me punch in a really long time. Also, who's doing fondue? Everybody had like a fondue set.

I know. I wish somebody would invite me to a fondue party, though. That would be fun. It would be fun. Now people are running out to get fondue pots. Hearing you talk about this, I'm excited and I'm also like so like I could never do that. Like this is my initial reaction. I want this and I could never do this.

But I'm thinking, I'm like, how many pairs of jeans would that be? I probably have 30 pairs of jeans. The truth is there's only two I actually like. And I keep the others because I'm like, well, what if those two are dirty? But also you can wear your jeans multiple times without washing. So like I already know I'm answering my mind's going a mile a minute and I'm answering all the questions. You're right. You know how much time I spend going through my jeans to look for the one I like?

Bonkers. The hardest part of the challenge is thinking about it. But what's so remarkable is once all of those items are out of sight, there's like this weight that is kind of lifted because I didn't recognize this until the stuff was gone. But my stuff made me feel bad. Like I felt guilty because I had spent so much on the stuff that I was never wearing. I was taking up so much space, not just in my closet, but in my brain trying to process. like why is there still tags on that? Like, yeah, it was a great deal, but was it if I'm not even wearing it?

Why do I have to give that any thought? And so once it was gone, I forgot all about it. And then after the three months, when I went back to that stuff, it was so much easier to be like, donate, donate, donate, I'll hold on to this for another three months and see what happens. But when it was all there, it all felt very important and precious. but when it was gone and I didn't even remember what was there to begin with, I realized that was just an excuse to hold on.

I love that you also, it's not a permanent decision. You're just packing it up and hiding it. So you're putting them in clear bags or even in your suitcases that if you're not traveling, you just like pack these up, vacuum seal them if you want. There's so many options here. And then just try it. So there's no pressure. There's no like, there's no, what if I make a mistake?

here. This is such a good idea. And also, I feel like we could do this not just with our clothing. It's like cosplaying as a minimalist. We could do this, you know, in the kitchen next and just have a number of utensils we use or something. Like, oh, this is so good. I love hiding things. I mean, it just helps so much to put perspective on how attached we are to our stuff. and how much we put on our stuff in terms of emotion and like, oh, but I paid so much for that. Like box it up for a month and try to tell me what's in that box. And if you can't then or you don't miss it, it's so easy to just be like gone. I'm done with that.

You're right. The things in the closet and the things in the drawer, it feels precious like you said. It does. It feels like it must be important because it has a place of all. honor. But when we remove it from that place of honor, we just, oh, I'm doing, this is it. I'm going to actually give this a try because I've decluttered a lot, but I've never pushed myself to a point where it's like, I declutter till it fits. This is me. I declutter till it fits. And then I stop there. And I need to go further because I felt even decluttering that much how the huge impact it's had on my mood and

my happiness. Imagine if I went further. Yeah. I mean, if you try Project 33 and you need any accountability or support, you know where to find me. I am totally going to take this challenge. I'm excited for you. I cannot wait. I'm also very scared. I might make a rule that jewelry doesn't count. No, I can't. I can't cheat. You can, but also it's only three months. And if you think about it, like the new year was like one minute ago, but it's actually been four months. And, So three months, I mean, that's nothing. It's nothing. For no jewelry.

And even though you like jewelry, perhaps, imagine just not making any decisions about it for three months. Maybe instead of not counting jewelry, you just don't include any. Oh, my gosh. Sounds scary. And also so amazing. I stare at my earrings every day. And I literally, I'm probably 30 seconds a day just trying to decide. which earrings to wear. And I have heard that we make 35,000 decisions a day, the average person.

35,000. Decision fatigue is a real thing. It is. And what if we just don't have to decide what earrings to wear? Right. Or which pair of jeans to wear. Or, and then for those three months that you're not even thinking about what you're going to shop for because you're not shopping for clothes, accessories, jewelry. So good. So good. Okay. How has this impacted your relationships, like your journey? Have you seen where people like, you're weird, you've gone too far? Or when people open? Was there resentment? Sometimes I feel, especially in the beginning, my husband was like, what are you doing? He wasn't on board.

I had made the decision to let go of things. And then he was just sort of like slap while I was doing. I was like, well, this is happening. Schmuck, and he was not too happy about it. Did you find resistance and did it impact your family or relationships long term differently? I'd love to hear. I mean, I would say just thinking about my immediate family, like my husband and my daughter, who was probably 11 or 12 when we first started this, I had their support because my health depended on it. And I also wasn't insisting that they get rid of their stuff or make any changes in their life.

And in the very beginning, you know, I was doing a lot of experimenting with different diet and food and really trying to figure out what worked best for my body. And we tried a lot of different things. And there was some running jokes in the family, you know, when we would have the raw food spell that I went through. I would serve up something that was supposed to taste like something else, and they would try to put on their best faces. And they'd go, you know what's missing? The only thing missing from this? It's some meat, a little bit of meat. And so we can have fun. I've seen people make hot dogs out of carrots. And they're like, I've seen that. Yeah. I don't know

about that. But hey, whatever works for you, great. And so we had fun with it. And again, it was about them getting rid of their stuff. I thought as my daughter's becoming a teenager, if I'm running around telling her to get rid of all of her stuff, she's going to grow up and rebel and become a hoarder just despite me. So she had agency over her stuff. She was at an age where she could do that. And I would say that now where she's, you know, almost 30 and debt-free and she just has a lot of, not by me telling her what to do, but by me showing her what was important to us to fix, for instance, the debt we had accumulated. She watched us become debt-free and saw how that changed us and our relationship and our family.

So I feel like that rubbed off in a positive way. And like my sister, who is, I mean, we talk every single day. She's just so such a dear friend to me. I remember when I told her about Project 33 for the first time and she said, oh, yeah, I'll try it. I'll have 32 handbags and a pair of jeans. I love it. So nobody had to be on board, but my closest relationships got even better because I was changing. And my relationships that weren't that great to begin with kind of faded.

That's good. I noticed in my life, I didn't push my decluttering journey on anyone, but I shared it online, so everybody kind of saw. And at first I did get some pushback, especially from grandparents, because I was like, please stop buying so many gifts. I just want to tell you, like, we will probably declutter a lot of them. So giving experiences or spending time, there was a lot of resistance. And there was like, oh, I hear you. your birthday gift, you're probably just going to throw it out tomorrow. There was a lot of like those type of comments from family. And I don't think it was coming from a place of meanness. It was just different. This is something that no one else was really doing. But what I've seen now, I mean, 12 years later, is they've all drastically reduced the amount of stuff they have in their home to. I didn't say anything. But I think like it's almost contagious when you see the transformation that someone else makes by simplifying, they're like, maybe I should try it. And they dip their toe in the water with maybe just a little less boxes in the basement and then maybe a little

less in the garage. And then maybe they try Project 33. Oh, this is good. But yeah, it does, it does become sort of this beautiful shared thing. But I noticed in the beginning there was resistance from my spouse, from my children, and from just all of my loved ones around me, just kind of like, this is weird. That's okay. I mean, I think that happens whenever we make a change because, wow, we love everything to just stay the same. And when people around us start changing, that kind of threatens our stability and the

ground that we feel like is so solid. like I you know we know this person and how they act and how they behave and what they do and that impacts how I act and behave and what I do so we as much as we all want everyone to just stay the course the world doesn't work like that and we don't work like that as humans we evolve and grow and get curious and and want this going to sound weird we want more for ourselves but Now we're redefining what more is and what kind of more we want. So I think the path of less brings you to so much more, but more of really the good stuff and not more of the same heavy stuff.

What have you found more of in your journey? What have you made space for that you didn't really have before? Oh, wow. I mean, more health, more love, more. creativity. I mean, I'm doing work that I am crazy about. I never thought I would be doing anything like this, writing books and connecting with people who want to change their lives that need support. I have more flexibility, more free time, better sleep. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. I think one of the most profound things is that I have more presence. So I can really show up for a conversation.

And I think 10 or 15 years ago, it would have been like you got a part of me. But the other part was like processing other information or in another conversation in my head or thinking about my to do list or wondering what's next or what I mess. up yesterday. But to get like very present and just be right here is just so amazing. I mean, it feels so good because as they say, like the, your worry, worry comes from the future, regret comes from the past. But right in the moment, it's usually pretty good. Oh, you're like, I want to be more like you. I love. I want, I need this. When I first decluttered, I like you, I was drowning in debt and I was filled with like,

my house looked like an episode of hoarders and every area of my life I was failing. I was 250 pounds and I just felt out of control everywhere. I was sick all the time and tired. I cried myself to sleep most nights. When I started getting my finances in order, that was the first thing. and was very life-changing. And then my home, I noticed I had so much extra time, but what I did was I just filled it.

I filled it with like, I'm going to write books and do a podcast and grow a business. And I just kept stacking. I'm going to volunteer and I'm going to craft and I'm going to paint and I'm going to, but I never let go of all the new that I kept. So now it's like my life is cluttered. You know, I was so excited to have space. that I created that I very quickly filled it. So my home is still minimal, but I've packed my life with all the extra time that freeing up my home gave me. And I think it's time that I declutter

this a little bit too. And I can feel that you do, I can tell you have boundaries on your time, not just boundaries on your home and what you're bringing in, but boundaries on you and your time and what you're allowing in. You probably even have boundaries on your emotions, don't you? You're like, you probably are over there just saying no. I wish that was possible. I love that. Okay, I'm going to write down, I'm going to do what you said, and grab a notebook and just write down all the things that are stressing out and see what I can declutter from my brain and from my tongue. And from my time so I can have the same impact and then not to immediately refill it, Cass. Don't refill it, Cass. It's like when I had to stop compulsively buying. I declutter and then I

just bring more stuff in. I got to declutter my brain and my time and resist bringing more in. Do you have a tip, my friend, because you're full of wisdom. It's oozing out of all of your cracks. For how me, mostly me, but also my listening. listeners can let things go or put boundaries on and declutter more than just their home. Yeah, I have a question you can ask about everything as it's coming up for you. This saves me so much time and energy. Here's what I ask myself. Do I care about this?

So I could start to read something online. And as soon as I catch myself, like, I didn't plan on coming here and reading this, but now that I'm here, do I care about this? 99% of the time it's a no, and then I just exit. I can do this if I am, like I'll go on Instagram to post something, and then I'll do a little, like, scroll up and start to see other things. And then as soon as I notice I'm doing that, I'll say, do I care about this right now, any of this?

Am I going to remember it tomorrow? Is it going to affect my life right now? No. So I just keep it simple. Do you care about this? And when I get into a conversation with someone that is going in the wrong direction, and I know that we're just going to go in circles, I will ask, like, do you care? And if I don't, I'll figure out a way to remove myself.

Same with worries. Like a worry will come up. And then I have to ask that question. Do I care? And when I care about something, I want to be able to give it my energy. my attention. But if I care about everything, I care about nothing. Oh, that's good.

Right? Like I can't. If I think everything's important, nothing is. So it's what do I care about? And don't feel overwhelmed if you're not sure. It takes some practice. But the more you ask the question, the less you realize you do care about.

And then the things that really matter to you start to rise to the surface. and then you care even less about the silly stuff or the stuff that is just not for you. It could be really important to someone else. And they're the best person to care about it, not you. That's so good. And even if you're saying no to someone, you might hurt someone's feelings, if they're like, hey, do you want to come to my kid's third birthday party? And you're like, I should.

but I'd rather stay home and play in my garden. And that feels rejuvenating to me. Are there times where you're like, it's okay to be selfish here, but it's also maybe this time I should put myself out a little bit. Do you have a choice on those type of boundaries? Yeah, sure. And I'll always just kind of check in with myself and say, like, am I worried about disappointing them? and I'm I willing to disappoint myself instead, if that's what it's coming down to. Why am I willing to disappoint myself over that?

Does that mean, I don't, I mean, I don't want to go to the dentist, but I do, you know, but that's because I'm making a decision that I care about that. So yeah, there's some things that you will have to say yes to where you'd really rather stay home and read a book or garden, but there are plenty of things that we can take a pass on. Yeah, it's good. It's hard sometimes, I think, to put ourselves first. Hearing you say this, I'm like, oh, that sounds selfish, which is ridiculous because it's not. It is. What if it was? And being selfish was a good thing. I mean, could we reframe it like that? Like, if I'm selfish, it means I care about myself and I'm putting myself first. And doesn't

it always show that, like, I can't, what's the saying? Like, you can't keep, giving from an empty cup, if you don't take care of yourself, you're not going to be taking the best care of the people you do care about. So you have to come first in different areas of your life. Now, there will be times in life that something is happening, whether it's an emergency or a crisis or, you know, something with a friend or family member. And that might have to become the most important thing. But because you're creating some margin and some space in your life, you'll be able to do that without it completely upending your life. You're so wise. I could just talk to you all day and have you solve all my problems, Courtney. Oh, I wish I could. You're amazing. But I will let you

get on with your beautiful day while I go upstairs and plan my 333 project that I am 100% committing to. And while I write down all the things that is stressing me out and see how I can declutter some things from my mind and time, I'm just so grateful that you were here today. Please let my listeners know where they can follow you. And you have your incredible books. I know you have one that just came out gentle, which was just released. So please tell my listeners how they can follow you and where they can get copies of your books. So I would say go to be more with less.com. That is a where you'll find everything about me. And you can find my new book, Gentle, which is the subtitle, which I'm obsessed with, is rest more, stressless, and live the life you actually want.

And you can find that anywhere at your local bookstore, anywhere you buy books. And it's available in all formats. So Kindle, audiobook, I narrate the book. and also in hardcover. So I'd love to hear what you think. And if you find something that you love in there, in every chapter there's tiny steps, a gentle step, and a permission slip. I'm immediately adding this to my cart. Thank you.

Thank you. I think I want your audiobook because you do just have a very calming, I feel so, I feel calm talking to you. I'm getting that calm from you as well. Oh, well, I'm not you. because you're giving it to me. I'm picking up what you're putting down here because I am not a calm person. I'm a crazy. I'm just always on. So I needed this today and I needed it more than you could know. And I hope my listeners also are feeling the same feeling that I am. I know you need this to you guys. So please, I'm going to put all the links to Courtney's amazing blog and her books and her website down below. You have a YouTube channel as well. I'll put those links. down in the show note. And thank you for joining me. And thank you everyone for listening. I just hope this kicks off your week. And you really are a little selfish and put yourself first.

We could all be a little bit more like Courtney. Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.