Coding Blocks - AI, Blank Pages, and Client Libraries…oh my!

Episode Date: July 7, 2024

It’s Water Cooler Time! We’ve got a variety of topics today, and also Outlaw’s lawyering up, Allen can read QR codes now, and Joe is looking at second careers. View the full show notes here:https://www.codingblocks.net/episode238 News As always, thank you for leaving us a review – we really appreciate them! Almazkun, vassilbakalov, DzikijSver Atlanta Dev […]

all right don't think that you didn't i heard how you guys started that last episode and don't think that did not go unnoticed in there it wouldn't be a stern talking to this episode we're back 238 this episode of 238 yeah it was a glorious intro was it not i know i know you got like all tingly feeling like it brought back that loving feeling and all that right yeah now alvolo's back with a vengeance what are we gonna do yeah we're gonna we're gonna talk about uh stuff on the show that's unbelievable so all right hey hey wait wait you gotta listen or or subscribe when i don't have to listen to crap don't tell me what to do you got to hey hey and you know go to slack great people website has all kinds of notes stuff all right that that's outlaw

that's jay-z hey and i'm alan and i'm out all of the show and i and i pointed at people like i know that i'm pointing in the right direction for all of you. It's got to be. Yeah. You can imagine it. They see it. For sure. Theater of the mind. Okay. All right. And now that we got back. Yeah.

My weekly torture of trying to pronounce proper nouns. Here we go. And before I even get started, can I just say that these reviewers did me no help. And the problem is, the problem is like legitimately, like, you don't know, like, okay, well, they're just making it up because it's a handle, you know, and like, that's what they used or if it's really their name and you're being super offensive if you don't get it right. But then like like even if it is a name like i was talking with somebody recently where like their name literally was there he was telling me the story of how his mom literally just made up his name like it's completely you're never going to meet another person with that name

so that's the problem of proper nouns like of course you're not going to know how to pronounce any of them ever yeah outlaws gonna be amazing we get this far yeah so with that said um here's this week's shenanigans so from itunes thank you almas almas coon pretty good that decent. I think that's not bad. And I wanted to be noted that last episode, Jay-Z conveniently skipped over

that one. I think we messed up. And left that for me. It was on purpose. Alright, so from Spotify, I'm going to say vasil baklava i mean you added a few letters but that was pretty close pretty close vasil that was it that's bakalov that's what i said yeah you did something like it all right that's That's fine. All right. Yeah. Okay. We'll agree to disagree.

Anybody that's got the rewind, feel free. Well, if you thought that I added some letters that time. This one, I know I'm just going to get right. I'm not. Are you guys trying to play a joke on me? Dykstra ver perfect maybe that's pretty that's interesting i i wouldn't have had anything better i don't think i i don't know where to go with this i mean like so so at any rate let let us know. I think I, I,

I suspect only one of those is a real name and the rest of them are handles and I'll let you decide which is which. Yeah. And those were from Spotify. So thank you all who took the time to, to do this and, and who enjoy this portion of the show. Oh,

all right. So next up, we've got, we've got an event coming up in Atlanta here, September 7th. We've mentioned it a few times already, Atlanta DevCon. Uh, you can head to the website, atldevcon.com and check it out again. It's usually a pretty good time. So, you know, go see if you're in the area, definitely go look and see if you can make it. That's great. Great time of year too. Also, DevFest Central Florida coming up

September 28th and you can still submit a talk if you want to do a talk. I don't know about Atlanta DevCon, but the DevFest Florida has the call for speakers up until July 14th. So if you've been wanting to do a talk, great one to apply to. So you should do it. Cool.

And then also, this was planned for this episode, but I think we just got so busy that we didn't have time to do it. There was a fantastic discussion in our episode channel and Slack that was basically, Hey, how would I know whether to pick RabbitMQ or Kafka, right? Because we just did that series on Kafka or the Kafka platform, I should say. And, and rightfully so people were like, well, why would I choose one over the other? And we had some really good conversation on there. And I think that would actually make a really interesting episode. So we'll bring that up probably maybe next, next episode, but at any rate,

it was, it was fantastic. So just know that that'll be coming and for all of you sitting out there going, well, I don't know what to do. You know, maybe we'll have some answers for you. So, um, Jay-Z called out that he wasn't sure about if Atlanta dev con was still, um, looking for speakers. If you had a topic you want to talk about, they still are that you can, there's still, they still have the call for speakers. You you had a topic you want to talk about, they still are that you can, there's still,

they still have the call for speakers. You can submit your, uh, session up to August 9th. And this is, so that was September 7th. So we're July, August,

September. So we got two months, right? Two months away. So you'd have, I told you date math was hard. Yeah, it is a little bit of time to get

some content together so you know if you can get it done you know sign up it's a great way it's a great great way to get into speaking is doing one of these local uh camps well more importantly it's a great way to learn something oh like if you if you pick something you know that you aren't as uh familiar with but you have an idea of something you know there's something wild out there and then you got to learn it to get you know here's what i did all right what we got let's hop in uh we're doing water cooler got a couple topics here we're just going to talk about a little bit have some fun and uh let's spell it uh so i had a question kind of burning in the back of my mind earlier today. I know a couple people have been laid off this year and they're having a hard time finding work in the technical

fields. And I know like games studios have been shutting down left and right. It's been a rough time for people out there searching for a job. And if that's you, I feel for you. That's awful. But I just have this question. i want to know how many programmers are are there in the world and part of this because i moved into a new neighborhood and like i just a good portion of my neighbors that are also some sort of like software engineer or related uh profession and so i you know of course there's a bias there like i'm a software engineer it makes sense i'm gonna live somewhere near other software engineers you know in terms of like socioeconomic status and all that jazz and stuff but i just got me thinking like how many programmers are there and is that number still

growing and so i did a little bit of research and uh if you really want to know that number for the world then oh you oh you want to know the actual number no can we take a stab at a guess yeah i guess okay i wasn't sure if you were about to leave throughout the number though that's why i was asking oh yeah yeah take a guess okay i'm gonna my answer is too many too many okay what's your answer so i i actually saw the line over to the right i don't know if that's the number so i'll just i'll let him say yeah that's my bad that's my bad so i looked up and i saw it too that's the numbers. I'll let him say, yeah, that's my bad. That's my bad. I looked it up.

I saw it too. That's why. It's kind of funny. Like the U.S. has pretty good numbers on it. It's like some other countries have good numbers on it. Some are sometimes years old. Census, you know, all that stuff. Like some of these governments and whatnot only publish the numbers every so often. Uh, but the best estimates for this year, 2024, you know, hand wavy is like 26 to 28 million. Uh, I have no, I had no reference for basis of that. It's like, is that a lot? It's a little, I don't know. So I went and looked,

uh, there are 873 million agricultural workers. So there's people working in farms, farm hands, watering plants, plowing fields, I don't know, doing things like that. So that is probably the biggest profession category in the world. Construction workers, like around 112 million. 83 million teachers. So I thought that was what I could understand. It's like, okay, so for every person that I meet that's a teacher, or every four teachers i meet there's a one programmer so you know it gives you some kind of perspective there uh you know some real rough uh napkin math

there uh and that never has been growing it's not growing as fast as it used to i it's real hard to kind of compare because various sources publish those numbers at different times but you can see the rate is growing is slowing a little bit. And that's not doom and gloom. I think it just makes sense that there was such a big boom there starting around 2000 demand for programmers. At some point, it makes sense that it's going to kind of slow down. And maybe it'll keep growing.

Maybe it'll boom again. Who knows? But what kind of got me thinking just like what would the world look like when we finally hit that point where one year there were more programmers than the next when that number kind of topped the hill and started going down a little bit where would those people be going what are the new careers that these people that would have been turning to software, social media influencer,

right? I mean, it does seem like it doesn't it? If you ask kids today what they want to be when they grow up, that's like the number one answer. So check this out. I just put a link in here cause I think it's, it's actually a really interesting question.

There's a statista is a website. I guess they keep statistics on all kinds of things. It has steadily been growing every year since 2018, where they have these numbers on here. So like 2021, I saw the number that you mentioned, Jay-Z, right? Like between 24 and 26, something like that. And it's gone up every year. And now it says in 2024, there are 28.7.

So 28.7 million. So it is going up and it will be interesting to see when that plateaus or, or goes the other side, especially with AI being all the thing. And they're talking about, you know, even non-developers now could basically say, Hey, I want a program that does X, Y, Z, and it spits out something. It's funny. I've heard people talk about that stuff and I'm like, okay, good luck. Right? Like, okay. Do you, do you know how to run it? Do you have an IDE? Do you know how to like, okay, you spit me out a bunch of rust.

What do I do with that? If you're in a Java world, I mean, the three of us can attest to it. You almost need a degree in, in setting up, you know, Java environments to even be able to run things. So I think, I think it's headed that direction to sort of enabling people to get more out of the things that they want, but, but real software developers, I do wonder where that's going a number wise. And what are they writing? Are they writing business apps? Are they writing AI generative apps?

Like there's a limit to what some of this stuff to where it goes. Right. So I don't, I don't know. I'm with you. I'm real curious to see how this, where this heads. Yeah.

My kind of bet. If I, if I had to put some money on it i was i would think that there are still people doing things that are programmer e maybe it's low code solutions or something but they're more invested in their domain space kind of like a it's kind of hard to be just a writer now like you come out of college you want to be a writer but there are jobs in screenplays and technical writing and recipe writing and fiction writing. And there's these kind of things that the more focus on the domain and like while writer is the core of that, you know, the skill.

That's the thing that you do. You are a writer. But it's just it's kind of we're specialized and tuned to the domain. So instead of coming out of school or you meet somebody and you say, well, I'm a programmer, you say, well, I work in the oil industry doing programming or I work in the car industry doing programming. And I don't know if that's that, you know, I don't know if that's real or not. That's just kind of my guess. If I had to make a guess, I don't see any other sort of big booming industry kind of rising up that I would put my money on. So I would just think it was just kind of spread out.

So the world, uh, kind of, it kind of gets to where everybody, or at least a lot of people, uh, have, uh,

at least a little bit of programming skill. Uh, I don't actually know that just to guess. What about you outlaw? Any takes any hot takes? Well, this is going to be a little possibly a little offensive

depending on where you land. The popcorn. It's kind of like, well, okay, so you said how many programmers are there, right? Allen's was the developer population so the question was in my head was like well what group of people exactly are we talking about that are the 26 to 28 million are we talking about like you know because in my mind there's kind of a difference between like a computer scientist is not necessarily the same as a developer right there are software

engineers and then there are programmers and like there's kind of a difference and and you know people can argue about that distinction if they want but you, you know, in my mind, I think of like, well, if the types of problems that you're solving are like super, like if you're inventing new things, like, you know, you're using crazy math to do new things that haven't been done before. And you're exploring like new ways to store data or, you know, like sorting algorithms or whatever, like that's computer science, you kind of stuff, you know, like that's literally like the theoretical kind of science stuff. Part of it, this like, you know, super hard. And then you, you, you go to school to get a degree in computer science and then you get out of school and you're like hey we need you to move the logo three pixels to the left right

and moving the logo three pixels to the left while valuable and i'm not trying this is no in no way meant to be a dig on html or css type of stuff because i love doing that kind of stuff too you know but there's like a there it's at a different level in my mind and I think I think then you you have in between there are the the types of jobs where it's like not only am I trying to like move that logo or do something else but I'm also trying to connect to all these other systems and I'm connecting a whole bunch of things and now I gotta figure out how i'm going to deploy all these things and like i have to make this scalable and i have to do telemetry and you know so i don't know what it means to have 26 to 28 quote programmers right because what the hell does that mean? Yeah, what are they doing? Yeah, it's...

That is an interesting one. Yeah, so... So, you know what's interesting about that? Again, I want to sort of tail on what Outlaw said there. It's no knock on people that are doing front-end UI type stuff at all. That stuff is hard. And what I find really interesting and where I see the growth of a developer over time is when you first like take, for instance, if it's your first time making a webpage or something, you're going to go in there, you're going to see the things off and you're going to do that thing where you try and move it three pixels, whether it's CSS or whatever. And then you're

going to open it in Firefox. You go like, oh man, that doesn't look right. And then you're going to be like, all right, well now, now I got to figure out a way to do that. And you're going to paste in some, some CSS class somewhere to get it to work at both. And then you're going to open it in another browser and you'd be like, man, it doesn't look right there. Where I see the growth of people into true software developers is they start looking at things and saying, okay, it doesn't look right there. Where I see the growth of people into true software developers is they start looking at things and saying, okay, I can't do this everywhere, right? Like I can't paste or I can't put three different things for every single browser. Let me write some sort of shim that handles this kind of thing. Right. And that's, that's where you start creating these

toolboxes that you take along with you. So, um, but I'm with you outlaw. Like what does it mean? Is this people programming OSs? Is this people writing webpages? Is this people, you know, writing backend processes? Like what is the software developer in terms of these numbers? Yeah. It's kind of like, as you were talking about, like, have you ever seen the meme where it's like, you know, the light bulb keeps getting brighter until eventually the brain is like this, like galaxy looking sparkly thing, you know, the, the keeps getting brighter until eventually the brain is like this like galaxy looking sparkly thing. You know, the four thing I'm talking about. So as you were describing that, I was like, oh, yeah, I guess, you know, you first start programming and you're just like hard coding HTML.

And then eventually, like maybe the next evolution is like making your HTML work cross browsers and everything. And then our next evolution is that, you know, it's, it's, uh, using a, a JavaScript framework of, you know, one or one sort, you know, whatever, pick your flavor of the day. But, um, you know, and so that's where I kind of view like this whole evolution of like, whatever a programmer is. So I don't know. I'm not too worried about the 26 to 28 million because that's so wide and there's so many niche areas within the, the development needs that, you know,

the needs of a, of a small company are nowhere near the needs of a large enterprise. You know, like there's a, of a small company are nowhere near the needs of a large enterprise you know like there's a there's a lot of small shops that you know don't care about kubernetes that's not you know flank kafka who's got time for that crap i got real world problems that need to be solved right now that are making my business run and those have nothing to do with it kind of thing you know so it's like it depends yeah for sure hey jay-z did you you did you ask this last question what will people be doing instead what do you think what do you think they'll be doing oh i just i just meant that i still think there'll be some programming but i think there'll be more

invested in the domain kind of like the writer example I gave, like where there's a journalist or a screenwriter, just different kind of specialties. But I think back when pencils were first invented, you could be a writer just because the writing itself is so hard and took so long to learn. And, you know, people would copy books and monasteries and stuff. And so you could be just a school, you could be a writer or you could be a historian. But now, you know, you fast forward 100 years and you can't just be a writer or you could be a historian but now you know you fast forward 100 years and you can't just be a historian you could specialize on civil war history from 1859 or you know whatever like but um yeah it's just uh it kind of grows and kind of finds its own little places to live in the world and spreads out but i think those specialties already exist today though like you don't you don't just decide oh you know what i'm gonna i'm today starting today i'm into

cryptography that's my that's my area of software development that's my thing right versus tomorrow it's like you know what um my area of expertise is AI game engine physics. That's 100% where I live. And that's my, like every software developer has their domain niche. And I'm not saying that you can't switch. You certainly can. It's just that it's an evolution that happens, going from one domain to another.

Yeah, I guess I'm saying like, i expect it to become more of a tool and rather than the profession itself it's kind of like uh if i ask one of my neighbors who's not a programmer like hey what do you do for a living they would say they wouldn't say like oh i work with needles they would say oh i'm a nurse i'm a doctor i'm a you know whatever their profession very general yeah maybe i misunderstood then so you're thinking that like the software developers are going away? I'm not going away, but I think I'll just evolve into where software development is a smaller portion of a lot more people's jobs. And so I think there will still be people that do it a day in, day out, but there's

going to be a lot more people that are hybrids with like business, for example, or they're hybrids with marketing or, you know, other areas of the domains. You're basically saying like a business analyst, their, their thing is going to be crunching numbers, but they're going to be using coding skills to, to get that done. And they're not going to be a software developer. They're going to be a business analyst is kind of where you're going. Yeah. Like I'm imagining one, one day there's going to be a world where you can ask your neighbor, what do they do for a living? They say, Oh, I work in health care. And you're like, yeah, what's your day to day like?

And they're like, well, it's mostly meetings and a little bit of coding. But they didn't say I'm a coder. They said I work in health care. That's interesting. That's a different take on it. And maybe it does happen that way. The only thing that leads me to believe that it's not going to be so simple is just look at the landscape of, of software languages out there right now. And a lot of them exist for different reasons,

right? So you've got Java, you've got.net, you've got rust, you've got C plus plus, you know, all of those super healthy, strong languages that have a ton of adoption go and i think that you're still going to have people that work in those areas right because they got to push those platforms forward so you're still going to have hardcore software developers for quite some time to come i think anyways uh i think i i'm not as uh i'm well, I guess, depending on like how you view Jay-Z's stance, whether it's pessimistic or optimistic, I'm not as pessimistic as him. I don't think that it's going away anytime soon. I think it's going to continue like it has. You know, like.

I don't know. I kind of view it as like, there were software developers 20 years ago, 30 years ago, like, you know, it's, I don't think it's going where I think it's going to become more a part of our society and culture and our, the needs, especially as we try to get more advanced in the things that we do and the things that we're creating like i i don't i i think you'll still be you know you'll see a lot more software developers i tend to agree more with that simply because we're pushing mechanical things with software more and more and more right? Like whether you're talking about the self-driving Tesla, right? Yeah, exactly. Or pick any number of things out there. I mean, so an example is I get advertisements all the time for these pool robots. Like back in the day you had a skimmer that, or

not a skimmer. There was some sort of thing that you put in your pool that had like a little tail on it that would sort of randomly clean your pool. and then and then came along the Roombas of the pools which are very similar to like a Roomba in your house except it had a freaking cable attached to it that it would run back and forth and your pool clean it and now they've got these things that have gone even further that have like mapping technology on them to where they clean the bottom of your pools then they go up to the top and they flow across the top, get the leaves and stuff off. Right. So, so that all takes software programming. And I think as we try and push more and more of these technical advances to make our lives better, there's more and more software development

that comes along with that because that's what's controlling all of it, right? It's, it's software on, there's so many operating systems being run underneath the covers of these things that that's, that's how it all works. No, it's just Linux. Yeah, it is. It's, it's all Linux. It really is. Unless, you know, Microsoft's moving into that, that area. So who knows? All right. So those, those are really cool topics. The scene is that we were talking about a little bit of AI.

There's one that's really interesting. And I think Jay-Z you've touched on these in the past. I believe it was Suno, Suno.ai. Maybe you've mentioned it. I don't know, but there's a couple of AI companies out there that will allow you to generate music and it's pretty good at it, right? Like you can create some stuff and it's all based off what people like and, you know, looking at recycled stuff. Well, apparently there's lawsuits out there against them right now.

And I linked an article here. I read some of it. But what brought this up was I was listening to some podcast the other day. I don't remember what it was, but it was interesting because they said that it's sort of touchy territory, right? Because what they're basically saying is AI generates things or generative AI creates things based off things that it's seeing, right? Patterns and all that kind of stuff that it sees. So it's sort of easy to say, Hey, it derived this from my work, right? But here's where things get really weird and hard to, to really sort of align with that is, okay, let's say that you're a music creator. Who's to say that that song that you

just wrote wasn't influenced off some song you listened to yesterday. Oh, for sure. Right. So, I mean, and both of you guys playing guitar quite a bit, you know, you, you get riffs and a lot of times there'll be a riff that you might change a little bit that was based off something that you played earlier. And you're like, Ooh, I like this, this, this tweak to it. Right. Or, or you change this one thing, or you, maybe you modify the beat. And I'm not saying every single work on the planet is a derivative of some other work. I'm sure there's some truly unique stuff. Right. But I guess my point is when you say that AI is generating music based off things that saw, you can say that because you know that it was trained with that.

Well, the human is trained with all the stuff, all their experiences in life too. So could you just call copyright infringement on every single thing that's created now? I think the problem though, here, the distinction is that,

so there was a recent story. I'm to find it i can't find it but and i thought it was maybe related to the one that you were talking about but i didn't see it so maybe i overlooked it but um there was a recent story that came out where somebody part there was a lawsuit that came up where somebody was brought up that they went to one of the uh and this was like someone from the recording industry that did this as like part of their this was like evidence as part of their case they went to one of the ai systems and they they couldn't like specifically name the band but they said hey write me a song that sounds like a 60s british band that sounds like uh fetals and um you know it comes back with the song with the the the lyrics of imagine and it's not quite uh the the song

itself wasn't quite exactly you know the the the, the, the tune wasn't the same exactly, but it was pretty spot on. There wasn't a whole lot different between it and the song imagine. And it's like, yeah, come on. Now, if I asked you to do that, you're going to know exactly what I'm getting at. And you're not going to like, you're going to be like, Hey, come on, man. But yet if you had somebody who's like, uh, you know, the next, you know, Justin Bieber, he's 14 years old and he goes to one of these sites and doesn't know, you know, cause he's

only 14. So he hasn't heard of the Beatles yet, maybe, uh, or maybe he needs to be a little bit younger to never heard of the Beatles. I don't know. But the point is, is that, you know, you have somebody who, who maybe hasn't heard of that. And now some generative AI system comes up with a song like that. And obviously they wouldn't say rhymes like, you know, British band that sounds like fetals, but you get the idea that I'm going with is that like, it's possible that the generative AI could come up with a song that someone who is much younger might not realize, you know, they might not have, they might have the purest of intentions.

Right. And they might not realize that what they're doing is copyright or, you know, that somebody else did it. I mean, you and I could fall victim to that too. We could like try to, you know, Hey, write a song. And then all of a sudden it's like, you know, some Sonata by Mozart or something like that. Right. We could like try to, you know, Hey, write a song. And then all of a sudden it's like, you know, some Sonata by Mozart or something like that, that we're like,

Oh, this sounds great, man. Yeah. If we could just chug on that a little bit heavier, maybe let's do it in drop D instead, you know? So that's always the answer.

Yeah. Drop D is always the answer. Yeah. It's, it's pretty interesting where we're getting with these things. I mean, I don't know. Good luck trying to sue anybody doing this stuff because how are you going to prove it? Right? Like it's all, it's all a mathematical equation that's coming up with this stuff anyway. So, you know, and it's a changing mathematical equation. So go back

and prove it. Like it's, it's going to be tough. I think to say the least. Oh, and by the way, there's lots of great tips at the end of the show. Some regarding some of this, some not. You definitely want to hang out because I think we've got some good stuff coming up here. Yeah. And I just want to add, I agree with everything that everybody said, but also wanted to mention, um, if you don't think that people are taking inspiration from uh previous generations previous uh you know kind of works of art just listen to music like pick a year and like an area of the world and like listen to music that came

out around that time period in that area of the world in like uh 1670 vienna Austria. It's got a sound to it. 1986 US, it's got a sound. 1986 England. There's a lot of things that just kind of share some inspiration. And I like to follow artists on Instagram. I like to see how they work and stuff. I mean, across the board. So musicians, artists, sculptors, whatever.

I just like to watch the process. And a lot of times, especially the artists, they'll look at classical paintings and they'll recreate it with a few brush strokes or in different colors or just mix it up in various different ways. But absolutely studying famous pieces of art. And I think all artists kind of do that to some degree. They look at other people's process and they improve it. What I do as a software developer is the first thing I do when starting on a new project is go look at similar projects, you know? And I think that's okay. But yeah, I understand that that's your point outlaw that you can accidentally or, you know, not so accidentally, like totally recreate a very specific instance from the set of data.

And that's where the difference is. But yeah. Yeah. that's where the difference is but yeah yeah but i mean i want to be clear though i i understand that you might say like oh i really like uh this particular musical act you know insert band name or whatever you know i really like taylor swift and like you're kind of inspired by that particular genre of music and so you write music that might have a similar, you know, the tonality of it might be similar or the style or whatever, you know, um, that I don't think is the same thing though, is having another system, write the song for you

in a completely different, you know, or in some particular style that might be a complete rip off of it. So I view that as kind of different, like take, you know, music musicians throughout time have talked about like what their musical influences were, you know, for decades. I like, that's not, that's nothing new. I mean, it'd be easy enough to rip somebody off without knowing it using AI, right? Like, I think that's the gist of it, either intentionally or not intentionally, you know, and create me the song blah. And then, you know, if you were to run it through some sort of comparison tool out there,

there might be stuff that's like spot on. And I don't know. Boy, I wish I could find this article for you guys. There's this Kanye West song back when he was named Kanye West song. I forget the name of it. It was a song. I actually liked it. It was decent.

It was on the album that I liked. But I was like, oh, man, I know this. I know the sample or whatever. I know this. And I finally figured out it was an Apex Twin song. I looked it up, and I'm like, oh, that was it. Years later, I was like, oh, that's it. That was where the sample came from.

I Googled it. And there had been some controversy about it at the time, but Kanye swears that he didn't sample it. He says maybe he had heard it at some point and he recreated it, uh, you know, so he didn't have to ask permission. It wasn't staying, taking whatever. And regardless of which one it was like, you listen to these two things back to back and it's like, okay, so was it accidental? Was it on purpose? I don't know,

but both songs are great. I've heard of comedians, you know, if we take, we switch topics, I've heard comedians interviews with comedians where they will not go listen to any other comedians because they don't want to accidentally be influenced or, or hear something and even be in their subconscious that they might like you know tell the same joke material right and then there's other comedians that have no problem with it so you know yeah yeah interesting cool all right well you want to uh you want to do this next part here? Yeah. Leave us a review.

Oh, my God. The more stars, the better. All right. There we go. It's possible you could roll all the way around and get to a negative. You don't remember? I think it was Scott Harden's. Yeah.

Negative one. Yeah. All right. Well, it's time for everybody's favorite portion of the show, including me. It's time for mental blocks. Scott also named mental blocks, by the way. Oh, did he? Oh, was it? It's beautiful.

Hey, did you hear our great thing last time? Like where you had to pick a number and it was pretty amazing. I thought we did a good job of it. I do it again. you had to pick a number and it was pretty amazing i thought we did a good job of it i i did it again this is um way to put me on the spot i i did not get that far into it oh man oh you know what i honestly i was turned off by the intro and i was like i'm out what is this what is five seconds actually he listened to see if we like missed anybody in the reviews and then and then he turned it off.

Yeah. All right. Fair enough. I'll do it. I'll do it for you, Outlaw. Alan, you have to do it last time. So I'm thinking of a real number, like any real, you know, not imaginary number. Do you want to take a guess what it is, Outlaw?

Oh, I don't even get a range. It's literally just any number. Any real number. I mean, it doesn't matter what i say there's if there's an infinite possibility that i'm going to be wrong so yep um you better think real hard here 13 that was it my gosh. You're so good. Okay. Good job. Such a liar. That was it.

I really don't believe that. I think maybe whatever. It didn't matter what I was going to say. He already had his canned response ready. I'm pretty sure it was 13. Let's roll back the tape oh is that what it was last time hold on it might have been actually it was something like that i think it was actually i think i did 42 or something like that i don't know the meaning of life yeah good number

yeah exactly all right well let's get into this uh last we did this i think jay-z was on the winning streak if i remember correctly he has been for a while yeah i believe i'm a little hurt by it uh well this is episode 238 so jay-z you are first and your categories are this day in world history or fairytale elevator pitches or candle culture or films turning the big four. Oh, or rules of the game. I'll give you the rule. You tell me which game it applies to. Or human body classified ads. Which part of your body would place these ads if the classifieds still existed?

Wow, these are really good categories. They are. And the classifieds do still exist, just so you know. I've seen them. Yeah, that's true. I really want to know what fairytale elevator is, but rules of the game. This is probably sports stuff and rules of the game. All right, fairytale elevator.

Five. Sports ball. Okay. A talking cat requests proper footwear before playing a deceitful game to get himself and his owner ahead in life. What is Puss in Boots? That is correct. Okay. All right.

So let me take note of that big lead you got there. That's not a good start. Yeah. Let's see. I'm going to give the just uh let you know since because there were some fun ones here um i'm surprised no one wanted the the big the films torn turning the big four oh either that would have been good yeah here's the here's about it here's the one pointer al pacino permanently damaged his nasal passages from snorting so much fake cocaine in this crime genre

oh really i didn't know that i just assumed he wasn't really snorting no not got a scar face was it scar face it's our face i'd have got it wrong rules of the game uh one pointer if you touch the metal edge of the cavity you're you'll set off the buzzer and make sam's nose light up operation yep yep and human body one pointer available for immediate occupancy pair of respiratory organs lobes and avelio um no no that part included perfect oxygen starter home lungs yeah okay is that a thing a velio i'm sure somebody's gonna tell me i pronounce i'm a software developer not a medical person yeah i don't know yeah hey uh can i do, can I do an impression real quick?

Yeah, sure. Wait, is it of me? No. Okay. Not this time. My niece loves the game Operation. So this is an impersonation of her taking her turn playing Operation. Sam died. sam died okay well uh here's your topics alan you ready let's see if yours are as fun this is je purdy or she played you i'll give you a movie character you name the actress who played

her or oh this is my favorite what the f e f f in all correct responses. Or poems about poetry. Bleah. That's bleh. Poems? Poems. Yeah. Whatever.

Even common nouns now are a struggle. That's not it. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. This is it. All right. Skin care. And lastly, sure yeah this is it skincare and lastly sesame street song parodies you know these categories aren't as fun as jay-z's but i'm gonna do what the f for five let's go there yeah i, why not? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, here's your WTF. It's a German stew made from rabbit.

TV's Laverne and Shirley shouted it out in their shows opening. Man, it's not stroganoff what uh stroganoff i i don't know jay-z would you like to uh take a chance at it germans do made it laverne and Shirley shouted it out in their opening, their show opening. Doing it always. You can do it.

Don't they sing the city or something? Philadelphia. Oh man, I love Laverne Shirley. Hi dude. Wasn't it like Schlemiel, Schlemazel, Mazel Tov Incorporated, something like that? Oh, yeah. It was something like that. Just tell us.

What is it? I don't know it. It's not a stroganoff. It's not a stew. It's good, though. Yeah, it is. I'm probably somebody listening is going to say like like, of course Outlaw would get this wrong. Hoffens fetter?

Hoffens, Hoffens fest, feffer? Nobody will say you got that wrong. Hoff, Hoff, Hoff. H-A, you know what? I'm putting this word in there because like this isn't fair. Well, now it won't let me copy and paste it it's h-a-s-e-n-p-f-e-f-f-e-r that word right five words shoved together awesome yeah that's great nailed it all right

so jay-z with the lead here are your topics far out college press Along for the Ride, Women in Sports, Slovenia, baby, Slovenia, or Whistling Hall of Fame. Oh, geez. Those sound harder. I like those. I don't know any of these. What was the last one? Whistling Hall of Fame. Ah, geez.

Does it tell you how far out it is? Like what it means? No. These places are far out. Probably college press. College newspapers. I don't know. Along for the ride could be anything. Women's sports. I don't know. Along for the ride could be anything. Women's sports, I don't know. Slovenia, I don't know. Whistling Hall of Fame for

five. If you get this, I will be so mad. I will flip my desk. Is the answer Patience by Guns N' Roses? It's the only one I know. You're cheating. Okay. patience my guns are roses it's the only one i know you're cheating okay in the late 1980s this hair metal band wait what what

that's it i'm coming over i'll be there in five minutes no just kidding okay the fishing hole which is in quotes the fishing hole was written especially for this beloved sitcom long before ron howard met the fawns was the andy griffith show that is correct that's so ridiculous i i get we do i can't whistle so i was always used to that show yeah yeah no that's not going ever well um every parent out there is like losing their mind like quit whistling yeah i don't know we i don't know that we've ever had this situation i mean like we can go into final jeopardy but wait don't i get one more we were supposed to do two each and then we went in oh that's what we yeah i get one more chance to get a point on the board okay well you've heard all of the topics do you need me to repeat them or do you know which one you would want to pick

i don't remember the first rounds this day in history fairy tale elevator pitches candle culture films turning the big 4-0 40 rules of the game and human body classified ads rules of the game five rules of the game five be the first player to go from onesies to tensies and you win the game. Did he mute himself? I don't think I see him cussing, but I don't hear it. Onesies to tensies. It's a dice rolling game. I think it's called tensies. I think I know.

Do you want to give your answer, Alan? Tenzies. Jay-Z, would you like an opportunity to steal? I'm trying to remember. I think it's one of two things. I don't know which one. I think it's the second one.

I think it's either hopscotch, but the answer I'm going to give is jacks. You the ball and the jacks and you pick up one two jacks is the correct answer oh come on that's so ridiculous i was really surprised you didn't pick the body one but like i would have definitely gone for the movie one i can't the movie was almost 40s didn't pick the body one, but I would have definitely gone for the movie one. I can't. The movie was so great. I almost did 40s. I almost did the 40-year-old one for five.

Let's just see what it is so I can fail one more time. I just want to run through these questions real quick. Three Stephen King novels made it to the big screen in 1983, The Dead Zone, Christine, and this film about a rabid St. Bernard. Pet Sematary. Oops. No, it wasn't pet cemetery joe what is kujo kujo yeah right i jumped the gun in a christmas story ralphie says the queen mother of dirty words fudge but this other f word is swapped in to keep it clean. What is fudge? Thanks to the Griswold's P. Green family truckster, sales of these plummeted after the release of Vacation. The station wagon.

What is a station wagon? That's funny. Meryl Streep and Nora Ephron first worked together on this film about a nuclear facility whistleblower. I don't know. Philadelphia. No. I don't know.

What is Silkwood? I've never seen it. Alright. I don't know what to do. I think we stop there because it's 15 to 0. You have no points to wager. How would we even do final round well i mean i could wager all of them no but i just i still can't win we can't you could not

lose no why would you do that though no i got my tail whooped i'm taking my ball and going home yeah i think i think we gotta call it there there's no sense in like i think this is like like a little league baseball game at some point you just like whoa it's getting out of control like the run probably that and that's honestly that's on me i should have called the game you know like maybe a few rounds ago i was like somebody in the ufc just getting pummeled down there and the refs just watching yeah that's on me that's my bad yeah i can do this all day apparently good god not to rub it in but you know hey when you got the whistling when i was like i quit that's come on i thought i thought i thought for sure that whistling was gonna be hard until i read the question out loud you know like i heard it at the same time as you and i'm like oh well yeah i think we know that

one so ridiculous yeah well you know what it gives it gives you something some banter for uh boomer hour and you know save it for then all right all right so what's the next one You guys familiar with the curse of the blank page? Like writer's block? Yeah. It's basically just writer's block. It's kind of a funny thing. But I was having trouble coming up with topics for tonight.

And I just kept thinking about writer's block and like what I usually do for writer's block. And the first thing I thought was kind of cool is just by having a name for it like either writer's block or cursive blank page uh i'm sure you've heard about like kind of a cultural history stories whatever how like giving a name to something gives it power but also giving a name to something makes it uh easy to share and talk about and have a common kind of vernacular for and so just knowing like the term writer's block makes it easier for you to google a solution for writer's block rather than trying to describe to google what do i do and i want to do something but i don't know what to do you know that's a much harder thing to kind of get advice for but if you say like tips for writer's block like you'll you know be wading through them same

with curse of the blank page so anyway i just thought it was kind of a funny thing about naming and naming being important which is something we talk a lot about in programming but in a different sense here so like giving names to concepts and and kind of writing about concepts and building these kind of terms and shared vocabulary into cultures and stuff i just thought was kind of cool um so you know aside from that i thought it might be fun to ask like if you guys have any tips for uh getting around like writer's block when it when you need to what so when you're talking about us in terms of writer's block are you talking about like sort of where to get started on something that you've got to work on like a piece of code or whatever piece of code or topic for a show or presentation anything just like don't when you've got that blank page sitting in front of you and you just don't know what to do i there's two things that i will usually do one i'll go back and look through my messages or my email from like the past

couple weeks right because i know there's tons of things that, that I'm involved with that are just transient, right? Like it might've been a really big problem, but after I was past it, I was thinking about something else. So I'll look back through just to see what kind of interesting things, you know, did happen. And then the other thing is sort of the same thing that you'll do, right? You'll hit up chat to PT and just sort of ask, you know, what's hot, what's, what's a good topic. What's what's whatever, right? Because it's pretty good at that kind of stuff. And then another thing, one last thing is open up a blank tab. If you're in, um, whether it's not Chrome, cause Chrome's really terrible about it, but if you're in edge

or if you go to msn.com or something like that, they have like 5 billion things like recent news topics or whatever that aren't necessarily news. It's just kind of things going on that they've aggregated from all over the place and you can find some interesting ideas and things there. Yeah. I like anything for me no i'm kind of having a writer's block just coming up with an idea on how to deal with writer's block all right well i got some tips for you okay uh

one alan already said to the chat gpt and what i like about chat gpt is like usually my first question it like doesn't even make sense and the answer I get back isn't great but I find myself starting to argue with that it's like well no I can't really do that because it's a little bit different but what if I was going to do that then I'd have to take this angle on it wait hey there we go there's my idea I've got a new angle on some sort of uh kind of old standard idea great here we go I'm off the races another thing I like to do is just start um like you know here's like a music analogy. It's like, I want to write a song. I don't know what to do. Uh, I don't know how to start. I'm waiting for this like lightning strike of inspiration. It's not coming. What do I do? Uh, well, let's start with a, I don't know

what to do after a let's go to B. Okay. Well, that's kind of boring. What if one of them was minor? What if next, you know, you're done. done so it just i like the idea of just kind of starting sometimes because i find sometimes like forcing a decision it starts you kind of on that that footpath i've also heard um it kind of reminds you of some advice that i heard of like if you're struggling to make a decision between two things and you're not sure which one's better i heard the advice to flip a coin and then when you get your answer sometimes you'll see that heads or tails and you'll be like oh crap i really wanted the other one and whoa you got your answer and if you don't have that visceral reaction if you're like okay well it's heads so i guess i'm going with option a and it doesn't matter to you then probably doesn't matter and just go with it yeah i mean i as it relates to software development though what i was really

thinking of is that kind of along the lines of what you're saying about getting started like sometimes you get um it's almost it's almost like mind-boggling like how big the problem might be and so you just like like okay well first i, like how big the problem might be. And so you just like, like, okay, well first I got to like open the file up and start it. Let me like write my main entry point in. And then, you know, you just keep adding on like little bits before you know it. And then before you even realize it, like you've already got like all the framework in place and now you're just left to solve like whatever your main problem was. Right. And so, you know, sometimes I find that as an easier

way like i don't know where this is going yet but i know that i gotta get this i gotta have some kind of executable that does x y and z and return some kind of code in this situation i probably need some logging now let me add that in oh i probably want to be able to like parameterize this thing you know what would be more convenient what if i'd had a configuration file you know what i'm saying like in in before you know it like you've already got this like skeleton of of of a process thing and and now you're like okay oh well the thing all i had to do is like you know add these two numbers together and return back a negative because my math is bad. You know, your mileage may vary, but you get the idea. Hey, on the thing that I just mentioned, like going to Edge in Windows and opening up a tab.

So just for example, this is sort of a horrible one, but I just saw that Ryan Seacrest is getting ready to make an absolute fortune for taking over Wheel of Fortune, which did you guys know that Pat Sajak is done now? Yes. That hurts me. That hurts me. It was a big deal when he signed off for the last time. Yeah, that's rough. Do you know how much Ryan Seacrest is going to make for hosting one season of Wheel of Fortune?

Probably all the money that's left in the world. Do you want to take a wild stab at what this is no more than three million five hundred million uh somewhere in between those 28 million dollars 28 million for season 42 of wheel of fortune that disgusts wow yeah that's more than pat sajak made i want to say that pat sajak made 12 million his last um signing thing so yeah that that kind of bums me anyways that was a side tangent apologies uh so yeah i mean can we get into boomer hour early like i don't understand the ryan c crest thing like ever since i don't know he originally started on american idol years ago, like he's done so well and like, you know,

good for him. I'm just like, was it really that good? Like, yeah. Okay. I guess he made 12 million, 12 million on American Idol for,

for being like the fourth wheel on the show. Like I just, yeah. I remember season one, they had two hosts remember there were the three judges and then the two hosts it was it was him and another guy and you know what none of us remember the other guy yeah i mean i didn't even remember kelly clarkson year that was the year that she won and what was the other guy's name he got second we also don't remember him um yeah yeah i want to say it was like

something like jeremy or something but that's not right yeah anyway yeah ridiculous amount of money obscene all right so the one that i have and i found this curious so you ever find yourself talking with people that are sort of, I hate to say senior level developers, but more like architects. What is it? You found it? Yeah, I was so close. Of course, I'm going to mess up his last name. But Justin, why Michael? Garini? Garini? I don't remember. don't remember mispronouncing that but yeah he he was the runner-up and remember

they made the movie you know kelly and justin at the beach or something you know it's been so long ago man so long i mean i apparently i can't I can't do anything with this trivia stuff. So I don't, I can't, I can't do that. What number am I thinking of? 13. That's just a callback. That's not fair. Right. That's good.

So, so this is, this is the part that I wanted to bring up that I thought was interesting. You'll find yourself talking with people that are sort of architects or, or, or leads or whatever. And have you ever noticed that, that it seems like everybody wants to make a new tool, the hammer. It shocks me every time it happens. Like, Oh, well we've, we've found this technology, um, elastic search. Oh, cool. Let's replace our database. Oh, we found this new technology, um, elastic search. Oh, cool. Let's replace our database. Oh, we found this new technology Pino for doing analytics. Oh, I wonder if we could get rid of elastic search. Oh, it's just, it's always mind boggling to me. As long as, as a lot of us have been doing this stuff that anybody jumps to that conclusion that there's, you know, whatever the thing is that

you've picked out to do this one specific thing, like, Ooh, maybe we can simplify our entire stack, get rid of all the other stuff. Like why, why does that seem to be a position that a lot of people take thoughts? I mean, and I'm not talking, I can see how somebody who's new to the software development could be like oh yeah we should totally get rid of this and just use this but for people that have been around a long time i just it's always sort of shocking to me how fast people jump on that on that bandwagon yeah i don't know um i i mean i find myself wanting that sometimes maybe it's just like wanting to keep footprints small or not wanting to learn new things i don't know is there benefit to it well i think it's also there there's times where like you might be tired

of the old thing and you're like well hey can this new shiny replace it yeah you know so like you ask yourself questions like that and some of it sometimes it might just be more exploratory too like oh this new thing that you introduced me to well i don't know about that thing and i have this problem with this with this other thing can i use the new one to replace the old you know yeah yeah there's there's probably that i mean i I don't know. I guess us having been around and done this for long enough, we know that every single thing you try comes with its own set of unique problems, right? Like no matter what you're trying to solve, it might be the most robust database, but it's not going to do search well. Or it might be the most robust search engine,

but it's not going to do relational well., you know, whatever the case may be, they're all going to come with their challenges. And that's why it's always shocking to me when, when you showcase something or start discussing something that people are so quick to jump and be like, Hey, why don't we just do everything there? And it's like, ah, I don't think so. I don't know. All right. So did you have something else on that? No. All right.

So here's, here's the next one. And this, this one is more out of frustration of something that I've seen recently. I'm curious what you guys think when, when companies, organizations, whether it's open source or, or, you know, commercial, whatever, when they jump a version of their software and, and here, I don't mind saying elastic search, right? Like when they went from seven to eight on their server upgrade, more or less the server upgrade is, is fairly backwards compatible, right? Like all the data fits into new indices and all that kind of stuff. No problem.

But their client libraries absolutely shot you in the foot because one of the things is like, this kind of goes back to a topic that we've had in the past, the outlaw correctly sort of corrected. I think both Jay-Z and I on, on using managed managed services versus, you know, running your own Kubernetes type version, right? Like, so if you're, if, if your cloud platform had like a Kafka type thing, using that as a managed service versus

running your own, you still got to deal with upgrades, right? Like they're going to upgrade their service because of security vulnerabilities, whatever features, and you're going to have to deal with it, right? Like in your software, however you're connecting to it. Well, you got that same problem if you're running it yourself. Maybe it's a little less work on your end because now you only have to deal with the application. You don't have to deal with the actual server upgrade. Anyways, back to this thing. So Elasticsearch went from version 7 to version 8 in their client tools, and you had to rewrite a lot of code. And what stinks about that is a lot of times you're upgrading your server infrastructure, especially on things like Elastic or a database or whatever, because there are security holes that you need to fill, period. There's features that are coming out that you need to push your, your application forward. And man, if it's not frustrating, if you don't have to rewrite a bunch of code just to do

what is a simple upgrade from the server side, but a bit of a nightmare from an application side, like I'm curious, you guys' thoughts on, does that mean that people have, should, should companies live in the way that windows did for years and years and years where every version of windows would run everything that's been created for windows for the past 20 years, right? Like that's really hard and it kind of holds you back. But on the flip side should should companies like angular if you remember when google was like oh you know what we're just redoing angular kind of like just killed all the people and we're going to name it the same thing yeah we're going to name it the same thing that will make it super not well let's let's be fair oh wait that was google wasn't it that did angular angular

yeah was it microsoft i was going to say they've had a really bad job naming their um video game system so but yeah but it like xbox one could not be more clear than xbox one right yeah but what what would your preference be here? Because there are some real pains and very unfortunate things when somebody changes a client library so much so that you got to rewrite code. And then basically test all your existing stuff to make sure that it didn't introduce regressions, right? Versus carrying a bunch of old baggage along with every version of it to, to enable new features. Like what are you guys takes on that? So I hear your frustration and I get it, but they did, in my opinion, they at least did you a solid by revving the major version number

and that's the whole point of silver is that rate rate you know uh incrementing that number means that hey there's likely breaking changes and you know if they want to make improvements to their product in their library i think that at least them revving the major version communicates that. Guess what? This could be a rough road ahead if you're in an upgrade situation. So, you know, choose, choose wisely. 100% agree with that. Like at least they use Simver the way that it's supposed to be used.

But it's also not an equal footing thing, right? Like I said, the upgrade on the server side is pretty simple. I mean, I'm sure there's some things that you have to do, but the client side, especially if you're taking advantage of a lot of it, is pretty brutal. Yeah, and that Elastic swap they did on.NET and Java. I haven't looked at the.NET one yet, but the Java one was brutal.

And it wasn't just changing some factories around. It was a lot. And I really hate it. And what I wish they had done is kind of namespaced the old one or done something, kept it around, maybe had a better guide. It was like a one-pager, so I thought initially when I looked at it, it was going to be fine. And it was so much more than that. So much, so much more.

And you're also upgrading your infrastructure at the same time. So you've got people, you know, upgrading elastic and dealing with that. So it just makes it a really heavy shift. So it's a really risky maneuver as a company that people aren't going to come with you and they're going to try and find something similar. They're just going to stick around an old version for a long time.

But I think what happened here is they did like a file new project for their for their client libraries and you know for whatever reasons the directions are going in the future they thought that that made more sense i just hate it as a user you know it wasn't fun also it ran as stuff recently with dotnet upgrade where things had been obsoleted and replaced and um you know that like microsoft is really good for the most part it's just frustrating to see like hey this one's gone go use this other thing you go look at it and the arguments it takes are totally different and like the stuff i was looking at specifically encryption so like i really need to make sure that i've released this code that the

data that i've already encrypted gets you know uh decrypted properly and, you know, vice versa. It's just got to work. And now I'm like reading through documentation and trying to figure out, okay, well, this, well, this library obviously had some things defaulted. Now I've got to go look at what those defaults were. And like, it just wasn't easy to figure out how to do that. And I wish that they had carried along those old namespaces that they obsoleted and, you know, or maybe just, maybe if they were kind of passing

some default arguments made a constructor method that would kind of set that up for me to give me an easier transition path so i i do wish companies would do a better job of uh being backwards compatible because i don't want to switch man their technology is the least of my concerns for the most part i don't want to spend all day on on their tedious you a rewrite. But from a security point of view, though, in that encryption example that you gave, if the new library doesn't decrypt it right, then it's perfect security then. Yeah, that's true. That's one way to look at it. You need to be more optimistic in life, Jay-Z.

Wait, wouldn't that be a one-way hash if you're going that route? That's a little rough. Now, I will say one thing that maybe comes out of something like this is that makes you almost take a step back and look at your code and be like, man, we let our use of this client library sort of crawl through our code too much, right? Maybe that's where you take a step back and you say, you know what, we should write, and this goes back to clean architecture that we talked about, you know, a couple of years ago, maybe instead of just calling these things directly willy nilly everywhere, we've talked about this with ORMs as well, right? Like entity framework.

It was so easy with using link queries to just drop that stuff everywhere in your code. And it almost becomes a bit of a nightmare over time managing that thing. When you see something like this, it can make you say, okay, I really need to make it to where people have to come through this little tiny funnel to get into the major code so that you can, you have one place that you need to maintain that abstraction from that third party library. Right? So it is something that sort of bubbled up with the frustration that, oh man, we probably could have done this in a way that would have been less painful. But I I'm curious that too. I mean,

I don't disagree with what you said, but although in fairness, like uncle Bob's strategy in his books was to an extreme that like always most people don't, don't take, it'd take a lot of development. Oh, your database could just be a file,

right? Versus SQL server versus, you know, it's elastic search, but just interfaces. Yeah. Um, but,

but the one question that I had, like listening to, to talk about this elastic search situation though, was like, okay, well, were there like any minor point releases in between where like elastic search as a company might have been iterating

their way towards things or you know you know i'm saying like did you go from one to ten and maybe steps two through nine would have helped my library yeah they said that's the old one's dead you got to go to the new one yeah from my understanding there was no baby steps it was you know hey this is going to be here for a little while but you know if you want if you want this version you're gonna have to buy it it was it was like the angular js to angular thing right like there is no transition i guess i'm saying is like you know in the client library you, did the client library have some minor point upgrades that were like baby steps towards what eventually became the bigger one? Yeah, I will say the one that I was complaining about, the Microsoft one, like going obsolete, like there was a deprecation phase where you had plenty of opportunity to kind of say, I know this was coming.

So that's a good example of like, it didn't have to be an emergency, you know, it's not an emergency. It's just annoying that I have to read. Well, I don't want to. I mean, I have to read that. That's a quote right there. Even in fairness, even the deprecations, while it's a nice step towards it, it still doesn't solve the problem. Right. Like if they got rid of if they got rid of classes. Right. Like they rename space things and they got rid of certain factories or whatever.

OK, nice that you're telling me it's deprecated. Right. The next time I compile it, I'm going to get a ton of warning saying, hey, you need to fix this, you know, because it's not going to be available in the next version. You still got to go do a bunch of work to make it happen. Right. If you plan on upgrading to that next version. So I don't know, man, like it's frustrating. I don't know the right answer. I don't know that software companies should be held back from innovating and doing things better and faster and more efficient and whatever the case may be.

They shouldn't be right on the flip side. It's like, man, why has it got to be so painful? I, I guess, you know what? That's why there's 28 million developers in the world. Right. And there's going to be more, I guess. I think when, when large companies that have large user bases do things like that, I almost think that there should be not necessarily utilities that will convert everything for you, but at least a lot of examples of, Hey, this is what you were doing before. This is the new way to do it. Right. Something like that. And I've seen some P some companies do that over time, right? Like, Hey, if you're going for EXTJS, yeah. I don't know if you guys remember that garbage, but they would say, Hey, you know,

we've deprecated this. If you're going from five to six, these are the things that you need to be aware of. And I think that's a pretty good service to your community. So, yeah. All right. The next one I have, and this one should be really interesting. What do you guys think the most important or relevant thing right now to learn as a developer chat gbt all right linux oh i like that linux you want to give answers as to why those i think outlaw you're half serious i don't know i mean yeah like we've talked about prompt engineers before like that's

been a thing that's come up in recent years and you know like there's there's uh ai interfaces into like all the tools nowadays you know like uh intellij or vs code or whatever you know the different companies have their own uh little ai engine to help you accomplish your jobs i mean it is there is something to be said about like getting acquainted with like asking knowing how to ask a good question so that you're going to get a good answer back and then like how to iterate on that or maybe how to like start with a question you know to where you can then ask leading questions based on so like i mean i was like you know half joking but there is some truth to it too you know i agree at least the way the current direction of how guys in everything

right everywhere is now a chat prompt yeah all right and you linux you want to yeah no i was just thinking from like a kind of a devops perspective for fun it seems like um you know the the tools are getting kind of higher level in a lot of ways but um linux is something that's just always been useful or has been useful for a long time. I shouldn't say always, but it helps in so many different ways. Like whether it's like a little thing

that you need to throw together to like a little script to get something done, or you want to do something cool with a Raspberry Pi, or if you want to get into like Kubernetes and DevOps, like Linux is there for you in all those situations. And it's just really cool. I just think it never hurts to learn more about Linux. So it's like, I don't know if you're going web dev or DevOps or security or whatever, but whatever you're going to do, Linux is going

to be there for you. Yeah, I can agree with that. On the chat prompt thing that outlaw said, one thing that I find interesting is when you ask chat GPT things, like I find myself asking about like JQ commands because I hate JQs documentation. I straight up hate it. I will ask it something like I'll, I'll paste in an example of a JSON blob and say, Hey, I want, I want this property that's nested three layers deep or whatever. And, and I want it in projected into a new object. Can you tell me how to do it? And what I find really interesting is sometimes it'll give me something that assumes something that I wasn't asking for. And it'll give me some weird command from JQ that I probably didn't even know existed. Right.

And I'll be like, wait a second. That's not quite what I wanted. I wanted it to do this. And it'll spit out a completely different command and it'll give me somewhat the same thing. And I'm like, wow, like, I don't know that I would have asked that different. And if you were to come back and start up a new prompt, and if you had just changed one word and what you asked, it would have come out with another response, right? Like I've seen it happen that way. And it's pretty interesting. I've actually tested that several times to see if, you know, however, I'm asking it what I'm thinking right now for the same thing, does it give me the same thing? And a lot of times it'll give me multiple different solutions.

And I'm like, well, which is the best one? I don't, I don't know. Um, and then I have to go read the documentation anyway, which frustrates me. So, um, yeah, I do find that interesting. I do think that engineering, uh, or prompt engineering is a thing because knowing how to interact with those things is, is key. Um, all right. And then my last one for both of you, when you go on vacation or you take a little bit of PTO, do you take a tech book to read with you? Do you try and learn more things or do you actually take the time nowadays to unwind a little bit and try and just reset your brains oh i didn't answer this one i do what i wanna so if i feel like diving into uh something that's you know work adjacent awesome you know and that can recharge me even though it's kind of work adjacent because it's what i'm passionate about in that moment or maybe it's playing around with making a you know video game and go to godot or something maybe it's going out

and riding my bike for uh days in a row uh whatever is, I just kind of like to trust my instinct on it. And that's what I try to go with. I don't try to force it. Okay. What about you, LL? Yeah, similar. Because it depends, you know, on what I'm reading at the time. If I'm reading a tech book at the time,

or I have one that I want to start at the time, then I might take that. But if I have something that's like fiction or nonfiction, I might know I might already have another book lined up is I guess what I'm getting at so I don't let the fact that I'm going on vacation dictate that I have to like read some particular type of book that's interesting I have a similar answer I think to both of you guys there there have been times throughout my entire development career where there's just something super interesting to me. Like Outlaw and I worked on some big data stuff, you know, a couple of years ago. And we were looking at Apache Drill and PrestoDB and some other things.

And that was hyper, hyper interesting to me. And I found myself all the time just reading more and more about how things work with data lakes and warehouses and all that kind of stuff. And if I took a vacation near that time, I was probably reading about it because it was super interesting to me. But I too find myself like, if I'm not in the middle of some super exciting learning expedition, then I'm probably just going to unplug and, and just waste away for a few days and let my brain recharge, you know? So,

yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's value in that. Yeah. I think there is because sometimes you come back, like you're almost bored with, with wasting away

and and you're ready to get going again right like it's almost like that that restart that you needed so um yeah that's cool i'm glad that i'm not the only one that is sort of in that the exact same uh mode both of you guys are yeah yeah all right well it's time for alan's favorite portion of the show it's the tip of the week this one might be dubbed tips of the week yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna do it good i got a few all right well i got first oh okay i was just kidding oh okay well uh speaking of reading uh i got a couple here that are related. Did you know that GitHub has, I wouldn't really call it a community, but they have, well, specifically what I'm talking about here, what they have is basically this thing called GitHub Revy, which is a curated selection of high-quality essays, stories, editorials, and podcasts.

They do come from multiple authors that don't all work at GitHub, but it's not like a dev too where you can go and just submit your own stories and publish your own kind of blog post. So it's very much more curated and it has that kind of magazine slash news platform feel to it. Almost just feels like a blog. So like if you want to write for them,

you can go apply or you can nominate people and post stuff out there but it's just the result is that it's really high quality reads uh and it's just github.com slash readme and it's really good and we talked about something that was similar a couple months back called uh paged out which was like a hacker slash uh programming zine do you remember that and it had the cool artwork and you download his desktop wallpaper. Yeah, it was very cool. Yeah, I was like,

what was that called again? So I looked it up and turns out they had a new episode published in June. So new ones come out since we recently talked about it. And just like other ones, they had sections on,

they actually had a large section on art and they talked about like pixel art and other things, demo scene stuff, cryptography, security. They actually had a whole category for reverse engineering reverse engineering in this one so it was just kind of cool that there's another pdf out of it and by the way this is uh the beta one version of the pdf because they version their magazine which is pretty cool so we'll have links to both of those in the show notes but yeah if you want to do some reading this is two really high quality sources of uh curated content

excellent i didn't know about the readme thing that's that's pretty awesome yeah i found that accidentally and oh uh they also have uh podcasts really cool very nice podcast excellent all right so i've got i've got i don't know five or six here. I'm going to try and not dwell on anyone too terribly long. So, you know, just boot me along if I'm going too slow. The first one is a travel router. I bring this up because I went on vacation recently and my kids want to bring their 25 devices or whatever. Right. And then I've got my phone. My wife's got her phone, then iPads, computers, whatever. I find it. I find several things hyper annoying. One, I don't like connecting to wifi hotels and stuff because generally they're using weaker authentication or encryption or authors,

all of it. Right. Like it's just bad. They'll use WPA two or, or, or WPA or some other garbage. And it's usually a weak password. And I also don't like connecting my computer to some random network, right? Like there's no layer in between me and them. Well, one of the things that's really annoying is you get in there and they get set up and then your kids are like, hey, what's the Wi-Fi password? What's this? And you're setting everybody up, right?

You end up becoming the IT person, uh, it person on vacation is like, I don't want to do that if you buy a travel router. So I bought one recently. I have a link to it here on Amazon and it is the GL I net, uh, slate ax. And it's the A X T 1800. Now this is one of their more pricey ones. I think I paid $113 for it, but the reason why I got it is it's fast. It's one of the fastest in terms of its throughput that it has. It has one of the faster processors and it has all the features. So there's a thing called EAP. It's extensible authentication protocol. It's something special that networks can do and this thing can handle it. So if they extend the network with

some sort of compatible type protocol, then this thing will work with it. So if they extend the network with, with some sort of compatible type protocol, then this thing will work with it. So this had all the features of everything else and it was faster. And I was like, all right, cool. So here's a couple of reasons why you might want it. And this is actually pretty nice. If you set up all your family's devices that they typically take with them on vacation, then their devices already know this router. So as soon as you plug it in somewhere, it's hooked up. And if you're using something, so anytime you've gone to Starbucks or a hotel or something, they have what's called a captive portal, right? When, as soon as you try and get on the network, it's like, Hey, please

enter your thing or agree to these terms or whatever, right? That's called a captive portal. This thing will handle that for you as well. So you can go into your hotel room, plug in this router, all your devices only connect to that router, you know, and I've got mine set up with WPA3. So that is super secure. And then this is the only one thing that is talking to the network in the hotel or whatever. And, and you can actually tell it, Hey, this is the only one thing that is talking to the network in the hotel or whatever and and you can actually tell it hey this is the network i want it to look for so you know you're in room 204 or whatever and it's you're going to see you know room 204 in your list of wi-fi things it'll say hey the network's not working the internet's not working right now click here to to open up the page to do it. It will actually open up that

captive portal page. You enter in the creds and now your router is the thing that talks to the network and all your devices are on their own network, just like you were at home. So it's actually super nice. Now there's a couple other benefits to this and I'll just blow through real quick. One is usually the wifi signals in hotels and other places, whether you're on a cruise ship or whatever, usually pretty weak. This acts as a really nice repeater, right? So it can pick up, you can put that thing closer to where it'll get a good signal and it'll put out a good signal for your devices to connect to. Another benefit, if your kids like playing video games with each other, if they were all connected directly to the

wifi of the hotel or whatever, they won't be able to see each other, but on this travel router, they will, because they're on the same network that you've got set up. So there are tons and tons and tons of benefits to this. Oh, and one last thing I've never been on a cruise ship because my wife doesn't want to get on a cruise ship. So it's probably never going to happen in my lifetime, but I hear that when you go on a cruise, they want to charge you per device for the week. Right. And so, and I've heard like it could be 150 bucks per device per week. Well, if you just have this one device, this router hooked up to it, you can hook all your other devices up to that router.

You're only paying for the one connection and you're good. Right. So, so there are all kinds of reasons to do this. One of them for me was security. The other was convenience, right? Like this already has it set up. I plug it up. Everybody's on.

I don't have to mess with it again. The only thing I do is log into the network. So that's a big one. Highly recommend it. I've been actually using it here at my house to make sure that everything worked out perfectly, right? And they all connect to it. It's beautiful.

It's absolutely gorgeous. And you don't have to download an app. You just go to a webpage on the device and, and you could do everything from there. So, so is this something though, like, okay, so here, here's where like, I always, I don't know if this is like, you know, maybe this is my boomer hour because you know, you ever, i just get more skeptical like as time goes on you know things and like a company that i've never heard anything about or heard anyone ever talk about and i'm like well okay my data like how do i know that you know you're making this claim that this is more secure you know you put it with the claim of like you're doing this for security

purposes and you know that's why you use this thing so i'm like well but is it though like how do i know that and like to that end i i very specifically for that reason i'm just you know recently went on a trip with the family and uh one of them mentioned like getting on you know uh wi-fi somewhere and i'm like well just use your phone like hotspot it from there because and they were like well why and i'm like well because secure i i have more trust in the company whose entire job is networking that they have a vested interest to get it right. Cause that's all they do versus, you know, this one small mom and pop is also providing some wifi or whatever it is, you know? So I, I, yeah. All right. So in fairness, I think the answer to that is to really,

it'd have to be a deep dive, right? And probably what you'd want to do is have like Wireshark or something installed so that you could see what packets it was sending out. Because like I said, I've been testing it at home. I've hooked it up to my wifi at home and it acts as a repeater. And so I could technically see everything that's going on, right? And I haven't done that. I haven't taken it that far yet, but it is interesting. Now, in fairness, if you don't like this GL, GL, INET, I think is what it is. They also TP link sells a version of their own travel router. And I think there's also some other companies that you've probably heard of that would as well. So this isn't the only solution in town, but it is a, a well known solution for travel routers. So now there are a couple of

other things that I won't go into the entire feature set of it, but there are some really nice things that it does as well. It supports open VPN. It also supports other VPN protocols. So you can actually have it hook up to your home network and make it look like you're at home when you're abroad. So there, there's a ton of different things that this thing features and you can even use it as a file share. So, um, it has USB plugins on it as well as a mini SD card on it. So that let's say that you're out taking pictures or whatever, you want to offload that stuff. When you get back to your room, you can do that kind of stuff. So tons, tons and tons of functionality on it. And maybe I'll try and dig into what you were talking about

outlaw to see is this thing siphoning data off somewhere else right like it would be good it doesn't even it doesn't even have to be that malicious though like we've all seen um i mean basically what you're describing here with this thing is like i could accomplish a similar thing just by taking like a linksys uh router you know or access point with me and and plugging in to the wan side of that and now everybody in my family connects right like that's kind of if it's a similar type of thing right it doesn't have all the same functionality though and that's where things get weird but yeah but some of that functionality though i'm like taking issue with it because what i'm going with this is that like uh you know we've we've heard through

the years of all of those types of devices have you know the various hacks that they have and exposed ports on the open internet and you know so you know like who's to say that this is like this company that i've never heard of is is more secure like maybe they are and and maybe maybe you're very new you know like a early adopter and so you know that's why you know i haven't heard of it i'm just saying like i'm kind of skeptical of these things until they have an opportunity to prove themselves you know and i think that's fair um one thing that is interesting is this runs on OpenWRT, which is a well-known firmware type thing for routers. I think they might've been made for the Linksys stuff back in the day. Like it was one of the things that people would

sort of break or put custom firmware on there. So a lot of this is open sourced on there. So it's, it has a good opportunity to be checked. But again, to your point, I don't know exactly, but I also don't, I mean, Cisco has been caught with their pants down a few times. Like there there's a lot of companies that have, that are trusted that have had problems too. Right. So I think in this world that we live in, you do the best you can and it's hard. And I will say the one problem with, with hotspotting all the time is you may not be in a spot with a good connection. And if there's wifi provided at the place that you're going, then, you know, maybe this would be a better option. So again, for the cruise option,

definitely, you know, as a wrinkle, cause you know, your wifi, uh, your, uh, you won't have any hotspotting there is probably going to be limited. Yeah. So, so at any rate, really interesting stuff. Um, now at any rate, really interesting stuff. Um, now along with that, one of the things I wanted to share is when I got this and I opened it up, it's got two antennas on it that pop up. And I was like, Oh man, I can't just throw this in my backpack because these things are going to break off. So I do have a little carrying case for it. I think I paid 15 bucks for it. Well worth it. It's like a solid case. So to keep it from crushing. So if you did want to go this route, I'd probably recommend getting something

like that. I haven't broken mine yet, but it's there. All right. So also along the same travel thing, if you've ever been in a hotel room or anywhere where there only seems to be a single outlet in the entire freaking room, it is super frustrating, especially for us that have like CPAPs and garbage. It's really annoying. There are these travel power cubes that are really awesome to take. As a matter of fact, when I spoke at NDC London, I took one of these along with one of those universal power adapters that you could plug into Europe and all kinds of other places, plugged it into this. And I had all the outlets I needed for all my electronic type devices. So I didn't have to buy, you know, five different power adapters to plug into the wall. I bought one of those and I bought one of

these cube things to plug in, and then I could just plug all my stuff up to it and it worked out just amazingly well. So, and these things are fairly inexpensive. So I have links to two of them. I have one that has six outlets on it, so it's not shaped like a cube. It's more like a cube rectangle, but it's pretty fantastic as two USB a and one USB C port on it. And then six outlets. Beautiful. The other one that I linked has three outlets and then the same USB stuff. And they're like 15 bucks each. Like they're absolutely fantastic. Can you use them at home and then just throw them in your bag when you travel? All right. So that's it. They're awesome, dude. By the way, um, because I'm a Costco lover and I know Jay-Z, you are, they have these in

Costco. You can get the anchor versions on Amazon for cheaper. They have a two pack in Costco. That's 35 bucks. You can get two anchors for 30. All right. So the next thing, I didn't know this guys. I was so frustrated.

So I bought, I bought that router thing, the travel router. And then it's like, Hey, register here for, you know, your warranty or whatever. And I was like, man, they gave me a QR code. And it's always frustrated me that like the things that you can read QR codes with are usually your phone, right? I did not know in windows, you can open up the camera app and over on the right side, where it's got the thing where you can take the picture under it there's actually a qr code link in windows you can click that stick the thing up in front of your camera and it'll go to the web page just like it would on your phone i didn't

know so you know another trick that about qr codes that i didn't realize with your phone no speaking of your phone specific at least on ios and i'm sure android has the same feature uh you know i'm so used to like pointing the camera to it right to to do it it it doesn't have to be a camera it can just like if there's a qr code on your screen yeah you can you you know it could be a picture of a qr code and you're like you go to that thing and it's like okay yeah sure if i don't interpret it and move on super useful yep yeah i think i was blown away by the fact that windows had it built in and i never knew so yeah the camera app in windows has a link over there or a button over there you can click and it'll do it so for

all of you that are learning this, hopefully I just saved you a lot of time. But do you have to have a camera? You do. You have to have some sort of camera. So even the garbage camera on my laptop, I stuck it up. It worked fine.

So yeah, she will need some sort of camera. So it's probably more useful for people with laptops. And if you've got a desktop like we do you know you could obviously do it because we've got cameras hooked up to it but but yeah you'll need some sort of camera plugged into it for it to see it um i don't know if you could i'm confused now i thought you were saying that like you did open up the camera open up the camera app on windows right now yeah and then over on the right oh i have nothing

it won't do it right now because my camera's being used by something else right this call yeah this call but over on the right when you do it you know there's the shutter button the big white button or whatever right under it there's a button for q codes for, for clicking, for seeing those. It's, it's so easy to do. It's as easy as it is an iOS and on Android. Right. You don't have to point a camera at anything is what you have to put the QR

code in front of the camera. So then you have to, so it can see it. Okay. That's not at all what I was talking about then. No, you're talking about on iOS. You can have a picture of something and just,

I thought what you were describing, I thought what you were describing about then. No, you're talking about on iOS, you can have a picture of something and just- I thought what you were describing, I thought what you were describing is that in Windows, if you go to a webpage or whatever, someone emails you a QR code, you're like, oh, hey, here's this QR code. And the thing that would interpret it was the camera app and it didn't have to be, the camera didn't even have to be pointed to it,

just be like, oh, you had this other thing, it's somewhere else like on your screen, I'll find it on your screen and then go to it you're still saying you have to use the camera app well that's lame yeah i mean no no no how many times you get like something in the mail that's or or you know a card or like this the registration thing where it's like man i don't want to type in that url yes you can point that i thought it was I thought it was. I thought it was. No, that's more exciting. That's what I'm saying.

That's why I thought the picture of the QR code thing, I thought was cooler because it's not a live image at that time. I'll have to look something up. There's probably something in Windows like that too, but I was just more fascinated by the fact that I didn't know about this feature that's probably been in Windows forever windows has the same ability finally caught up to ios and android finally i don't know how long has it been there i don't know now we're at boomer hour we've officially arrived yeah right okay so the next thing and this one's this is more

coming from something that i'm probably going to be working on here pretty soon. I know there's been times that we've all had to cache things and we just want to cache them in something like a map or a hash table or a dictionary, whatever. Well, but, but when you start doing it, you realize an outlaw, I know you're, you're intimately familiar with this, writing your own caching code is not small as you start getting into it, right? Cause you have to evict things from the cache. How long do you want it there? Does it need to be monitored? Like there's all this garbage that goes into it. So what was this? Oh, well, let's just cash this, which was a five second thought

turns into a month of, you know, creating garbage to, to make sure this thing works right. Well, I bring this up because Google actually has a library called Guava, uh, that is specifically for Java. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't, isn't in some other languages as well. I put a link to their documentation page, which is a wiki, but it's excellent. If you ever need to do exactly what I just said, which is you're going to keep some sort of dictionary of keys or, or, or whatever it may be. And you need the ability to load that cash, warm the cash, evict the cash over time, whatever this has this stuff built in. You don't need to go build it yourself. Google has gone

through the pains of this. And this isn't something that some sort of distributed system, this is within your application, right? So, you know, things that you want running a memory that aren't going to be like, you know, gigs of things I would think. So at any rate, highly recommend checking this out, especially if you're in the Javaava ecosystem i'm in the kotlin ecosystem and and this will be where i look so do you know that we have talked about guava before you know i wasn't sure if i brought it up before i i was i thought maybe i had but yeah so way back when uh over two years ago good lord in 182 we talked about guava as a tip of the week and it was then uh michael warn warning as uh commented on that episode to say that caffeine is an updated take on it oh so maybe i need to look at that one too god it's been a while all right okay so my

next tip and in fact he said that the caching part of the library had been pseudo-deprecated at that time oh that's weird so it doesn't show that on this i wonder i need to go back and look at caffeine then yeah so i don't know but i'm just you know making all right i will look that up and add it to the show notes as well. All right. So the next thing that I wanted to bring up, because we were talking about software developers and where they're going to be and how many they're going to be

and all that kind of stuff. So obviously generative AI is a thing right now, not some small thing. There is a really sweet course for Microsoft that is called generative AI for beginners. Now I hate the title with a passion because anytime I see something for beginners, I'm like, Oh, is this for me? Cause I'm not a beginner developer, but you know, I'm new to generative AI, but this is what they say. Learn the fundamentals of building generative AI applications with our 18 lesson comprehensive

course by Microsoft cloud advocates. So it sounds like this isn't for brand new developers. This is for people that are new to using generative generative AI in their applications. So, uh, personally, I think that it would be worth spending some time in this to find out if nothing else, like what, what and why and what kind of cool stuff could you possibly do with this and just get the, the, you know, creative juices flowing with this. So again, kudos to Microsoft for always creating things to make you use their products and spend money on them. I'm sure this is an excellent course. I haven't taken it myself yet, but I just want to put it out there. And then last for my tips here, I got some sort of X notification the other day that somebody was like, yeah,

I'm using Claude and I'm never looking back at chat GPT. And I was like, what's this Claude thing? So, and I assume I'm saying it right, but Claude is C-L-A-U-D-E dot AI. And if you go there, what people are saying is it's basically chat GPT, except way, way, way better. Their answers are more relevant. Their code that spits out is supposedly just excellent. So I don't know. I haven't tried it yet. I plan on signing up for it. But if you hadn't heard of it, just like I hadn't heard of it, then maybe you should go check it out, too. Based on my extensive research and expertise in pronouncing proper nouns, I pronounce that as cloud cloud yes probably is

probably better yes so nailed it yeah i think you might have so yeah check this thing out it's it's cloud 3.5 uh and it says it's their most capable model yet so based on open ai chat gpt 3.5 so you're saying this is being based on google oh it's apple based on chat gpt based on yeah oh man i just so this is a cloud 3.5 sonnet so yeah if you click the read more, they give you all kinds of things that are like there, there was some site that one of us mentioned a while back that was like testing different LLMs and how they ranked and all that. They have their stuff on here and they win almost everything compared to everybody else,

which is pretty impressive. So yeah, check it out and I'm done. I'm done. I'm out. All right. Well, I was going to give a tip of the week, but now it's too late. We've already taken too long. That was 30 minutes just for that one segment. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to, I was, I'm going to share all the other ones, but I will give this one out because Mike RG shared one about an article on how to get the most out of Postgres memory settings. So I'll include that read. If you're in the Postgres game, then you might enjoy learning some better ways to make use of your server.

But I'll save all the other tips for the next episode. And with that, we'll see you later. Wait, wait, wait. Postgres is still used? I thought they got rid of it with AI SQL. Wow. Is it not? Sorry.

I'm just curious. Filestore.ai? Yeah, SQL.ai something. Table.ai? Yeah. All right. We're really ending like that? Like there's no... Well, I mean, you guys didn't say anything. So yeah, it's really... Yeah. All right. We're really ending like that?

Like there's no... Well, I mean, you guys didn't say anything. So yeah, it's pretty late. Love y'all. Love y'all. Come join our Slack. No, it's too late. We had too much dead space. I'm not...

Where is it yet? Why? Yeah. All right.