Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 140: Documentary Homework, Journeys In Love, and Body Positivity with Jamie Otis

Episode Date: January 21, 2021

Kail and Lindsie are joined by Married At First Sight star Jamie Otis to talk about love and life and body positivity. But before jumping on the call with Jamie, Lindsie has some homework in the form of watching a particular 20/20 episode for Kail and the listeners. Jamie shares her life story, including how she ended up on The Bachelor and then Married At First Sight. Plus the three ladies talk about body positivity, and how "beauty standards" have affected their body image. This episode was sponsored by: Brooklinen, Better Help, Literati Books, & Fight Camp Have a question you want answered? Want to give Kail and Lindsie a call? Leave them a message at ?(609)-316-0060?. Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

Hey guys, welcome to another coffee combos episode good morning. I thought you were going to sing someone called you out last week and said that you lied and said that you were going to sing the next week but then I guess you forgot so do you want to sing well okay so well okay fine all right I'm gonna sing welcome to a new episode of coffee combos podcast I feel like that may or may not be worse than the last time I sang but you know what I'm gonna take vocal lessons so I'm gonna be really good at this by the end of 2021 perfect I'm so excited about that actually I want to have a quick coffee combo really fast before you get into everything that you want to talk about my friends in the group chat were telling

me to try a new drink from it's not a new drink it's like something that they drink a coffee that they drink so I got it and I I love it if you guys like chocolate go to Duncan and order a large I mocha iced coffee with a turbo shot and extra ice that sounds like a heart attack well it may be but like it also has extra ice so you're not really getting like I'm stirring it right now and it's so good um and it's so first of all a large coffee at Duncan is under four dollars why is a venti which is I think a medium at Starbucks like six dollars I've been telling you this for ages not only post this so when people want to try it it's so good not only does it taste better but it's also cheaper so you know it's like a double win speaking of though I love the fact

that you brought that up and that you jumped on the Duncan train this morning so someone told me to try the Duncan hash browns and the snack and bacon which I did the snack and bacon people like rave about it and you guys know I'm a huge Duncan fan but it's just like I don't like it not my style of bacon I guess like I like like an extra crispy salty bacon and I feel like that bacon tastes too sweet for me I personally don't like that bacon what's the deal with it what is it that you don't like it's just like well first of all snacking that's never gonna be enough to even make me feel a little bit satisfied as a snack so that's number one and then number two I'm just not like I just don't I just just it's not good like it's just not good and then I'm

going to be another Debbie Downer and say that I don't like the Duncan hash browns and I'm very specific about my hash browns so I have a lineup of like what's good and what's bad but the only two that are consistently good to me are the hash rounds from Chick-fil-A and if you know I disagree well you're a liar and then the hash brown from McDonald's if you order an extra crispy it's delicious no no okay so you like plain hash browns yes I like Duncan's hash browns because they're seasoned and you have I mean you have to ask for them extra crispy otherwise they are a little bit soggy I will say that I just think that like Duncan is like lazy with their stuff like even with their like croissants and stuff like if you don't ask for them like fresh they're either

burnt or soggy and I'm a croissant person like I love croissants but no I think that McDonald's and Chick-fil-A hash browns are so plain and I just need some flavor in my life you just need a little jouge like yes and I don't like I don't need I've like very bland food actually it drives will nuts he's like you need to get outside of like that bland palette I don't know that I've always been this way but since I got pregnant with Jackson I had to go on what is that like brat or brat diet whatever it's called the brat yeah so I could only eat like very bland food and I think that I just like continue doing it for the next eight years so here we are and that's my little spiel I also wanted to mention that I think it's a good idea for us to do a

highlight on coffee combos podcast Instagram for pets because the amount of messages that I get in my personal DMs every time we talk about like our animals or anything like it's a what do you feed them what type of pet insurance do you have like everything like so many different questions that I just want to like combine and put that on a highlight for people to be able to use that as a resource because if I answered messages messages about Della from the podcast then I would just be doing that literally all day like it's nuts okay I think that's a great idea people really love their pets I mean I love my canes like they're just like my favorite of all time so I would love to share what I like feed them and stuff I don't have pet insurance but I think I should get it so

that would be nice if you did put that so I can like look into it well and also like I have a small breed dog and I think Kale can like speak to the larger breed dogs I've never had one so I don't really know and kind of like what you do as far as like you put your dogs through training and all that kind of thing I just think that we probably have a ton of pet parents that listen to us and like I didn't realize until the last couple of times that I talked about Della and then it's just like my inbox like blew up oh for sure I mean I also have a small breed dog I have a french bulldog and they I honestly have so much I could say about gizmo too like people are obsessed with french bulldogs um and there's just like so much that goes into it and if you're thinking about

getting one or you have a young one there are health concerns that will happen like later on so I feel like you're right like we're there's just so much and I'm actually curious to know like what you feed Della and stuff like that so yeah let's just start adding stuff to a reel so that or not a reel a highlight so that people can follow along perfect okay well I'm gonna do that I also have another question for you did you watch the 2020 special on Jon Benet this weekend I did not but Kristen told me about it I didn't even know there was one first of all I know that were what did Kristen say she texted me and was like hey did you turn it on and I'm like I didn't even know there was one like I didn't even know like I don't literally you guys I don't

watch TV I try so hard and it's like very few and far between that I'm able to like actually watch something because of my having my kids and just like if it's not it's not the older two it's mainly the younger two like there's just no way to like even listen to it if it's on so I just haven't had a chance um but this this Saturday all my kids will be at their dads um two of one Creed will be with his dad for a couple hours so I'm hoping that I could just like catch up on a show or something on Saturday so that's what I'm gonna do but that was the show that I wanted to watch on Saturday so I'm not gonna like go into the whole thing or not I don't necessarily think it has a new theory actually it's very interesting um the I think it was the detective that they hired

granddaughters have a podcast and that's featured on the 2020 special and there was some video footage that the detective that was investigating or the investigator had put together I think that has never been seen before except in that 2020 special I don't want to go like too deep into it because I want you guys to have enough time to watch it like over the next week but if you don't watch it like by the time we record next week then we're gonna be talking about it next week I do just want to say that I have like eight different theories of what potentially could have happened I haven't ruled Burke out however I okay I also I watched I forget what it was like maybe like a tiktok or something

or I read something I cannot remember but I recently because I I don't think that I was on like the Burke train where like I thought it was Burke like I just couldn't I just like didn't believe it um but I don't know I'm sorry I did start to have like a change of feeling on that I do think that maybe he could have been involved and maybe he didn't kill her but he had something to do with it and then the parents didn't want to lose both their kids and then whatever whatever I still will never I don't think I can ever believe or get behind the idea that it was an intruder like I just don't believe that I don't believe it was an intruder that they didn't know about there could have been another person I think involved with this like cover-up with the parents

like if Burke did it I think it was a cover-up and potentially like a third adult knew about it and help cover them cover it up I think that that could have been a potential but like all I have a theory for the mom the dad the brother the town drifter the electrician the school teacher the housekeeper and the town Santa so I just I want you guys to try to watch it over the weekend or like over you know like this next week before we record for the next episode and then you guys can kind of like see what we're talking about on the 2020 special and then we'll go into why we each think different things because I think that once you watch it you're gonna kind of be like oh wait like there's a reason why it couldn't have been this this or this I'm so excited for you to watch

it I don't think it was the town Santa like I don't know if anyone could get me to believe that to kill the town Santa I'm dead I just like I just I'm not buying it just watch it and then let me know what your thoughts are on it um I also wanted to bring up that we talk about candles on here it seems like a reoccurring topic that we talk about and someone sent me this funny message and was like don't be so worried about will's dollar store candles and then attach this article from the sun and as we all know the sun is not the most reputable source of information but it says Gwyneth Paltrow's vagina scented candle explodes into flames causing an inferno in a woman's living room did you see this

oh no I no I did not see that okay so it says this 50 year old woman um had purchased this product and basically it just lit up in flames and I had no idea Gwyneth Paltrow even had like a candle line I had no idea yes we yes you did we talked about it we did yes like it must have been last year I mean it was obviously last year um and she has like a vagina scented one she has like really wild fragrances on her candle line well the quote from the woman just made me laugh it said it could have burned the place down it was scary at the time but funny looking back that Gwyneth's vagina candle exploded in my living room so oh my god oh my god and people have been sending me tiktoks of like explosions of candles of like the wax flying everywhere

and it just I'm just like who told us that this was a good idea and then someone sent me this like a candle connoisseur sent me this whole message about how you're supposed to trim the wick and you're only supposed to like light them for four hours at a time so on and so forth and I can tell you yes there has been days that I clean that I have had a candle lit way longer than four hours I always have my shoes longer than four hours I mean my shoes my shoes I always have my candles lit for what what the hell am I thinking what is going through my my mind today I don't know are you well thinking because I had no I'm not I'm never well um I have to get Lincoln new shoes his shoes keep disappearing um and so I'm just like ingraining it in my head that I need to

get him new shoes and I think that's why I said that wait what happened to his shoes I don't know Lindsay I literally wish I had an answer for you I have no idea where his fucking shoes go like I I don't know remember how we talked about like shoes that are found like on the road or like on the telephone poles or whatever yes is that where Lincoln shoes are I they evidently he's throwing them like footballs and they're up on the freaking wires I don't know I am so confused like how does this happen is this a new thing like I will literally be like where is your shoe no like I feel like no matter what and it's not like Javi's good about typically like returning things that are like if I send him over there in good shoes or shoes that I just got

him like I try not to just because I want to make sure that he has shoes at my house but I don't know if it's between like football training because football's over but he's still training at like a youth center like are the shoes going missing in the car when he switches into his cleats and then like I'm not entirely sure what is going on is there a hole in your floorboard like and they're flying out as you're driving down the road okay so I have two other things that I want to say one of these you were like I sent this to you and you were like yes yes yes the first one is a quote that I saw on instagram and it said I wish your parents could have loved you the way that you needed it had nothing to do with you you deserve to have your needs met

honor that little kid and you who is still not sure that they were the problem tell them how much they matter and rescue them from those old stories yes kail I was like literally yes crying when I read that was that just me being emotional or like no like some things just hit you differently and I feel like yes like so much yes because I I was blamed a lot for my mom like my mom's actions my mom's everything and so it was just like always something was always my fault and so I just feel like and then on top of that was like I'm being blamed from what my mom was doing and then on top of it my mom wasn't loving me correctly and then my dad obviously didn't love me at all so it was just like one of those things where it's like I was born into this I didn't choose this I

didn't do anything wrong this was just what I was born into so like they didn't love me properly you know so it's the same you know I'm sure that you can relate to some to that to some degree but isn't it so sad how trauma from your childhood can just like have such an effect on your whole life because I mean really like as a child and you're like most impressionable ages is that the right word um yes it's not a extremely long period of your life like I feel like there's so much more life to live outside of growing up but I feel like those growing up years are so important and so um they have such an impact on the later years of your life like for the rest of forever and I just no I completely agree I hope you post that on um when this episode's airing I hope you

post it on the on the podcast Instagram I'm definitely gonna post that um and in other news I am super excited because we have a special guest on the podcast today for the remainder of this episode we have not had a guest how long has it been since we've had a guest it's been a long time I don't even remember no offense to anyone but I don't remember the last guest we even had I mean me either I was thinking back to it and I was like oh wait I think the last guest that we had was when we were in San Diego which would have been Leah maybe or Monica um yes yeah yes I think you're right so it's been like ages ago so our special guest is Jamie Otis um you guys probably will know her you bachelor and bachelorette bachelor nation

and people would know her from the 16th season of the bachelor and she's most well known from married at first sight and that's where she met her husband um she has such a like wild story I she's so intriguing to me so I'm excited to have her on so if you guys will just wait one minute we're going to patch her in all right well we are hi Jamie so excited to have you on coffee combos oh my gosh I'm so pumped to be here thank you so much ladies for having me yes awesome I'm so excited to hear all about everything I'm so far behind on all of of Lindsay catches me up to speed on everything so I'm excited all right sounds good so Jamie tell our listeners how I don't know if it's like you say how you became found but maybe that's the

right way to say it how I became found yeah like how you became a public figure I guess okay uh well I guess it starts way way back like over 10 years ago I was on the bachelor and uh I was just a baby I was 23 um and I honestly I was so awkward because obviously you think the bachelor and you think like model like women and men and I don't know like living in a mansion in LA and traveling the world and I literally came from a trailer park and I had custody of my sisters and so like and when I say like my my trailer had like I thought it was a actually it was a very nice trailer it had only only like one hole in the floor which is quite good compared to some other trailers I've lived in and the ceiling the roof did not leak in this

trailer so I was really proud of this this home but needless to say like I'm still like this girl from a trailer park on the bachelor and I'm like how am I even here like I don't even belong here like these girls the one girl I was on Ben Flanik season and so the one girl is literally a model and was like I was on the cover of fitness last month and I'm like I don't belong here this is how am I here so that's I guess kind of how it all started is um I was just young and I saw the commercial for the bachelor and I was like oh I'm gonna apply and then somehow I made it on the bachelor um and I was like I don't think that I belong here I I like I thought like I didn't want to hurt his feelings if I didn't really like him and god if I could go back and tell talk to myself

I'd be like girl just have fun like I'm pretty sure he's just trying to have fun too like let's all just have fun I don't think he's really here for true love right I love your story I I feel like I relate to that on so many levels like just not feeling like I belong anywhere and coming from like the dirt basically so I love that that's awesome did you like get acclimated did people accept you right away or how did that what did that look like so I was I really felt like I was so I don't know like I like felt so not like I belong there I felt so unworthy almost of being there I guess it's the right word so I never really shared anything about myself I was very embarrassed so the reason why I had custody of my siblings was because well first of all I had no

idea who my dad was my siblings and I have different fathers and so like this is I won't go down this tangent but essentially like you know my sister found out who her dad was while she was living with me and so he's like looking for to talk to his daughter I'm like oh wait I'm not your daughter like that's my sister let me get you her and you know my mom she she I think now that I'm older than a mom myself I've really like softened my heart towards my mom because I think that she was really just looking for love her whole entire life and never really found it so she would turn obviously to like men like well I don't want to say that but like yeah like she would turn to men for love and drugs like to help cope because the men she chose I mean my stepdad would literally beat this not out

of her it was he was like in and out of jail I remember my mom I remember this vividly like my mom was going pee and of course we go into the room to sit down and talk with her she couldn't go to the bathroom ever without us and she was going to the bathroom and she was and my sister and I were there and she was like daddy's gonna get out of jail soon do you want him to come back and live with us like let me know what you think and we were like no mommy no like don't let him live with us and inevitably you know she lets him back but she had a really really rough life you know like she made some decisions that I guess anybody would say even she would say are like poor decisions and unfortunately like someone can only take so much in life and she ended up

turning to drugs for like a coping mechanism and that led to me gaining custody of my siblings and like I was a freshman in college when they first came to live with me and I was like didn't really know what was happening I mean I was 19 so I was really young but we made it work and so I don't even yeah so I don't even remember like like when I was at the bachelor I was like I'm not telling I was so embarrassed of all of this that I was like I'm not telling anybody a thing like I already felt like I wasn't worthy enough to be there because I didn't I knew that I wasn't like I'm like oh god hometowns like you know if I have to go to hometowns like they go to my trailer my trailer park like that's never been on the bachelor before I can I'm almost certain

like I just felt like I didn't belong there so I really kept my story in myself like private and um yeah so I think I don't think I think that girls like they would have been very friendly with me if I wasn't so awkward like trying to like I mean they would ask a question and I would immediately try to like I don't know ask them a question so that I wouldn't talk about myself you know but you made it pretty far right now we sound so I did and I don't know like I don't know why I kept giving me a rose because I really didn't have an awful lot going on together but I think that because I was the least crazy I guess like from the other girls he just kept giving me roses you and Kayle have so much in common I feel like I was yeah it's like so crazy

really I'm I'm shocked yes I'm so shocked like I a lot of my story like I remember when I felt I don't know if you know if you're familiar with my show at all but of course I was gonna say of course I know you're on Teen Mom I actually so when your guys' show was out I this is like in like the midst of me when I I mean this was like when I was having had custody of my siblings and I was like don't you get any ideas like you know because I feel like um I was like you know like I don't know I was scared looking out for them yeah of course yes exactly but now I'm like yeah for sure I mean just because it's you know because you are Teen Mom you know how hard it is oh yeah for sure yeah but um so I didn't so so I never really got to see although I know so many

people who are so obsessed with Teen Mom like Teen Mom is the most like people love your guys' shows but I never did get to see any of your shows because I was literally like raising kids myself that weren't mine I remember I remember like the whole reason why I signed up like when I went to apply for the show was like I felt like I was watching the first season of the girls like they all pretty much had their moms I mean even I know Tyler and Caitlyn they have like their parents were into drugs or whatever but they deal they did still have their parents in some capacity and I just I couldn't relate to any of them in that way because I didn't have my I didn't have my parents so I was like okay that's one reason why I want to show you know other people what it's

like to do this without parents and then on top of it was like there was one season after Isaac was born where I I needed to move out of my son's father's parents house and I needed to get on my own feet but the only way for me to do that was to do I had to be on welfare I had to get on food stamps I had to get rental rent assistance for single moms um teen parents and I had to kind of you know use those as stepping stones to get on my feet so I could get to a place where I could do this on my own without you know assistance or whatever so I remember them basically not begging me I don't want to say they begged me but they definitely were trying to convince me to film about being on food stamps and I just remember being so embarrassed that I hot like that's where

I was so like just when you're talking about your story like I just relate so much and just feeling like you're out of place because not even that's what I signed up to do to show people what that real struggle was for me and then on top of it was like I don't belong here because nobody else on my story it was like a catch 22 yeah I wanted to show that but then I also was like embarrassed so I completely hear you on all levels like I feel it to my core honestly when you say the food stamp thing like same I was like I don't want to be that girl that's like living on welfare you know like using the government's money but I like literally needed food stamps and so my sisters and I like because we were also on welfare we would like go really really late at night to

the grocery store so that hopefully we didn't run into anybody we knew because you know we were embarrassed to use the food stamps which I mean hindsight like aren't you kind of like good god like like I don't know like I like I wish that I would have been like not so ashamed of it like that is literally what food stamps is for is for women like you like kids like you and I who are trying to survive you know exactly 100% like not that I'm proud of it now but like I I'll never forget where I came from so when other people write into me and stuff I'm like if you have to use that's what those resources are for like you use them as stepping stones to hopefully you know get out of that get out of that place and like when you need them they're there so like I now I'm

like you know I definitely not that I am embarrassed now I think I should have just embraced it and like just taken it day by day and not been so embarrassed and like own you know whatever I was going through but yeah totally but I feel like that's why you are who you are though anyways and so it's it's okay and I'm like is always like hindsight's 2020 so it's like I mean same I like literally you're right like I feel like the exact same as you like a hundred percent like about it but um I love that well I'm glad we can relate yeah we definitely relate on that for sure so Jamie you are going through this bachelor journey and for the most part for anyone who watches the show you know all the girls come with suitcases full of outfits and you know

it's all about like putting yourself together and going on these lavish dates like what was your mindset coming from your background being a part of this and how did you prepare like without the funds to be able to do that to be able to go on the show and compete and then you made it as far as you did okay so I I always wanted to like I don't know make something of my life like I wanted to break the cycle of like you know because my mom my grandma dropped out of high school and got pregnant and my mom dropped out of high school well got pregnant dropped out of high school and then same with my sister and so I was like I really don't I just didn't want that life and I didn't know what else to do and so I decided that I wanted to like enroll in these pageants and I was like

girls who do pageants like really I don't know why but I was like and then I'll say it's very true girls who do pageants really do like have this drive and ambition and for some reason I was really like drawn to it and so I would do these pageants and I literally would go to the second hand store and I would like get dresses you know to compete at these pageants and I never ever won much of anything but I always won Miss Congeniality like every single I would do it every single year and every single year I would just win Miss Congeniality and I was like oh that's nice like and honestly that I think that gave me like I don't know some sort of confidence boost that made me want to do it again and again so anyways by the time like when I'm 23 going on the bachelor

I had these dresses from doing the pageants and I'm not even kidding you every cocktail dress was like a pageant dress that I had already used for and so that's kind of how I was able to afford it and also I so right at the time that I I mean I was in nursing school this whole time I remember going to the guidance counselor saying hey listen I need a job from this community college that's going to pay me more than minimum wage like like what can I do from here like I don't have four years to get a bachelor's degree or six years to get you know my master's like I need something right now because I I was literally like when we were we were so poor and they said well you know you can try to apply for the nursing program but it's like not not likely you're gonna get in

there's a long waiting list but I had really good grades I worked really hard to have good grades and I wrote a killer essay and I got in and so I ended up becoming an RN I don't know it was probably literally like a year before I went on the bachelor so I was and I was still living in my trailer because I was like I it was working for me like I I knew that I could potentially buy now like or like live in like a home with a like a larger rent or whatever but at this point I had paid off my trailer with student loans and I so like literally the lot rent for to like have my my home in the trailer park was like 300 a month so that's like dirt cheap and I was like I'm not like yeah I'm like how am I going to I'm not gonna why would I leave this

like I get it like it's not cool to some people it wasn't cool to me to live in a trailer in a trailer park but I was like it cost me 300 a month I'm gonna live in this trailer in a trailer park and that's literally how I was able and I also had a car that was it had like 150,000 miles on it it was really old it was I don't know but it worked and so I was like well I mean I always I was like religious about changing the oil and anything that went wrong I fixed it because I just couldn't afford like a car payment and whatnot and so I I literally my only bills were like my cell phone bill my insurance and my lot rent because in like obviously electricity and whatnot because I just knew that like I couldn't afford much more and so by the time I became a nurse I

was like well why would I change any of this like I mean I'm living just fine with these things and so my I was actually making you know a decent living as a registered nurse and I was still living like I had no money because I was terrified to have no money so that's kind of how I was able to afford it and I asked so at that point my siblings had already graduated high school and so I wasn't necessarily I mean I didn't necessarily have to be responsible for them anymore and so um that's kind of how I ended up on The Bachelor that's so cool so then fast forward applied for it what was that did you just apply for it or they found you no I applied for it I was actually with one of my girlfriend like one of my best friends and she was like you know the

commercial came on and I had never even really like I didn't watch Teen Mom The Bachelor I didn't watch anything because I didn't have time to watch TV really and so I never saw The Bachelor before I applied but like she explained to me like you know we were just like watching TV I don't know actually my roommate was watching the show The Bachelor was telling me about it and um this is a long story I won't even go there because I was like into like singing lessons I'm not even gonna go there but anyways I was in Boston trying to like me too me too yeah okay we have an awful lot of common but not a singer I'm not a singer we'll never kill not either I I try so hard I really do oh I hear you I like was aspiring to be anything and um so literally anything we would make anything

happen yes exactly um and so anyways the the show comes on and the the commercial comes on and this was Ali Fedotowski season and she my roommate was telling me like how this works she was like yeah so she got to choose between all these guys and and I thought I was applying for the Bachelorette like I thought I was applying to be her and to get to choose between all these guys and then I find out oh no there's like something called The Bachelor and you're actually just one of like a bazillion women and you just try to win his heart and I'm like oh well I guess I'll just do that too then I guess if I have to do that first then that's what I'll do um yeah so that's how I thought I was going on The Bachelor but um anyways yeah so but honestly my story really

isn't even about The Bachelor I mean that was so long ago like then what happened was I I um I go on another show called The Bachelor Pad which was what they had before Bachelor in Paradise and there was like like to sum it up I basically looked like a fool on TV I mean I literally if you want to laugh you can google Jamie Otis The Bachelor and you'll see how foolish I just like it was so awkward really I like tried to be sexy and sultry and I'm like teaching him how to kiss like I'm like I didn't like the way he kissed me like I thought it was like it was just kind of like wet and slimy and I was so then I'm like thought it was a guy to kiss but of course like he's The Bachelor and he's like the prince so I look like the idiot and um then that's fine

I mean I was mortified at the time and I was like I'm never going on TV again I'm not doing this but then someone from this show called but they called it the love experiment they called and they were like oh are you having trouble dating in New York and I was like yes I am and then they said well would you like some experts to help you and they'll they're kind of they're gonna like analyze you and analyze multiple men in the tri-state area and um and if you get a match they're gonna help you like throughout the dating scene and I was like oh my god this sounds amazing I was like sure and then like I was like okay I'll give this a shot and then at the final casting call they said hey listen this is actually isn't called the love experiment this is married at first site

and you're gonna marry a complete stranger and but like they're really they were really wise because all of the experts were there and they were just this was so different than The Bachelor in the sense that like it had been done in it was done in Denmark before and they showed that episode from Denmark and they said that one of the three couples were still together and they're working on having a baby and I was like wow like it just was so not like dramatized like American television and so I was like this is just a real they called it a docu series and they like said they genuinely wanted to see it it was like an experiment a social experiment is what they they still call it that but now it's definitely more like a tv show um but it really was kind of like

just a social experiment when I was on it and um and yeah I met my husband and it's been our seven year anniversary is coming up in a month here which is great of two months and it's like I'm crazy amazing we have two beautiful kids and so that's my story for the most part but Jamie you can't fast forward that fast tell us about being on married at first site and marrying basically a stranger so I I like I was still the same awkward girl who had insecurities but at this point I was like I am not holding back any of my story from these experts because I really wanted like true love I really did like I knew I was so awkward I did not have any like confidence in myself I was so insecure and you know I just felt like I don't know I just felt like I didn't really I don't know

like if it's like deserve like I knew I deserve someone good but I felt like anybody good wouldn't want me because of like the get the baggage and whatnot and like just like my mom I mean she's still on and off drugs and I know she tries her best she always like lies about it um you know of course because no one's really proud of it and whatnot and you know I don't know like my siblings still live in upstate New York and like you know like live like a just a nice small town simple life and my sister Leah kind of has a farm uh like a you know a very small one just like she literally grows cattle to like to eat them like you know like pigs like she will get them and then grow them to eat them and that's kind of what she likes to do and she's it's the healthy it's like

the cheapest organic meat for her and her family so it really works out and she just likes living on a farm kind of thing and um but I know that a lot of I was just insecure that like anybody would think that I don't know like I was just really protective of my family like I don't want anybody to think I mean I don't know any sort of yes exactly and so anyways I was just super honest and I was like if you can find a guy that I can bring home to my family and he will love even my mom like obviously I had issues with my mom and I still in a little bit do but like that's my mom like I'm allowed to have those issues but you're not like like I still love her immensely and you know like if you're gonna come in and just judge my family then it's never gonna

work out because I I absolutely love my family like even though it's rough and so I just was really really honest for the first time and let me tell you like to like just let your skeletons out of the closet and just be yourself holy crap that is so freeing and it's almost like then you realize your skeletons really aren't that bad you're like oh actually there's so many other people that have these same skeletons like it's really not that bad um like because I really felt like I was the only one that like had these issues and that I was just you know I don't know but like no like girl like look around you like there's people all over that are struggling in different ways and and it's so freeing and it's also so I don't know like there's so much more like support

if you just be honest about like where you're at so in any case that's what I did definitely I always say that more like more people resonate with the struggles and real life nitty gritty than they do this like happy fairytale I'm so perfect I come from like a perfect family you know what I mean like I think that it's and and unfortunately the ones that like really like the trolls I feel like and we Lindsay and I talk about it all the time it's like they don't even realize how miserable they are but like honestly I I have had the most support when I go through real raw honest like the hard stuff type thing yeah yeah actually I mean same and so ever since I started I'm like such a black or white all-or-nothing kind of girl I'm either gonna hide everything or I'm

gonna like lay it all out there and then I lay it all out there and so ever since I started laying it all out there I literally I do not really hide anything like I am so just honest about like everything that's going on in my life on social media just on the shows like we're still shooting a show called married at first sight couples cam that's on lifetime right now and we and I also like shoot their after show married at first sight and filtered and I'm just that one is more I'm definitely a TV host so I don't really have an opinion I literally just interview the guests but like on couples cam I just in myself and on social media I'm 100% myself and I'll tell you and I'll tell you like it is just so freeing like it's to just lay it all out there and you know

and then you do you you get so much support because you're not the only one going through these things like you might think that you are but you're not and that kind of support is I mean it's just amazing so yeah totally agree I have two things Jamie the first question is can we put kale on married at first sight um oh my god could you imagine me on married at first that would be so good right ever would you ever well first of all they don't okay so they don't like to have contestants with children but I feel like I wonder if we could make an exception like seriously would you ever want to be on married at first sight oh my god yes that would be on TV gold I'm so awkward everything that Jamie described about herself being awkward is me like

I have never gone on like a formal date like I have four fucking kids and three baby dads well I had two baby dads and an ex-husband but like I won't go on a formal date because that's how fucking awkward I am so like if imagine me thrown into a situation where I have to marry someone like do you have to marry them or like how does that work yeah you absolutely it's a legal marriage before you know anything about them um okay yeah I mean if you're genuinely serious about it of course I know like the CEO of the production company and um I would I'll for sure pick like I'll I'll ask them if you're genuine like take a take a moment to like think about it I've took the moment I've already thought about it like let's do it no I kill has

to do it um this would be amazing like do I get to invite people to a wedding like everyone will wear a mask of course but like do I get to have people there or no uh so you get to have 25 people on your side and 25 people will be on his side and you don't really get to figure out you don't get to like at like you don't really get to be in control of a whole lot of anything like you like the dress you get is gonna be from you know like the try on section well that's that's what my story like it was like but like to me it's like I don't care about all those details like I just want a true love like I don't care like what color my I want to go on this show Lindsay I want Lindsay to be there with me I want you to be on my side Jamie um I need to be I need to do this

no like you don't understand Kale wants to find love so bad but she doesn't she looks at all the wrong places oh honestly this would be so good this would be so good this would yeah I will 100 percent like shoot off an email then like right after we get off this after this podcast because why not I mean so obviously they don't usually pick people who have like any sort of um like they're scared that somebody is just look they literally do not like cast in Los Angeles even the production company is based out of LA because they really want people who genuinely want like true love and marriage but I'm like and also I made it you know where I made it and married at first sight in the casting before they realized I guess I was on the bachelor and like I'm just

fortunate I guess that they chose me and I always say to them like thank you for not just like pushing me aside because just because I was on the bachelor does not mean that I am not taking this seriously like I genuinely want real love like so I feel like if I could say well I feel like that's me because I was on teen mom and I have four kids am I not worthy of love like I'm not worthy of yeah I don't know so the thing with the kids is that they it's not that you're not because I literally said that to him there's two things two types of people that have never really been cast on married at first sight and one is someone who has kids and the other is like older an older couple and I always get questions like they always ask me like the fans are always like you know

why like why and I'm like why that's a good question like let me ask and so they say that the whole thing with with older they didn't really say an awful lot actually but with the kids they said they're just concerned for the kids that like they don't want to like put the kids in that situation for it to potentially go sour so okay that makes sense but I mean if this is something but that could happen in real life too like if kill went out and dated yeah someone and you know it doesn't work out yeah yeah exactly and also like if you have well Cal I mean I don't know like maybe if you have like close friends and family who can kind of support the kids while you're I mean because I mean you honestly you really just live your real life like you don't you don't right exactly yeah

it's not like it's literally not like some fairy tale thing so like you would go the only fairy tale ish part and it's not a fairy tale because it's crazy as you meet your spouse and get married so of course like at a wedding it's that's whimsical and beautiful and romantic and then I'm not I'm not romantic I just like romance is not my thing that's only because it's only because Cal is not like really like found the truest love yeah like I'm so big I'm like a bigger framed girl and just like super I guess like I guess you could say insecure you know so it's like weird for me to be able to like be comfortable in like a I would never like if someone asked to take me to a nice dinner if I'm not already in a relationship with them for a long time I'm gonna say no okay so this is

very exciting that you're interested in this because now my wheels are spinning and I'm like geez like I think that I can make something happen for sure like this is seriously talk I'm actually thinking of maybe not like oh my gosh Cal like I'm thinking maybe not even married at first sight but your own your own thing and I will we should create my own spinoff yeah don't say too much don't give too much yes you better not say too much let's not say too much at all let's just have another call let's do a group text yeah let's yeah for sure yeah and I literally think that we can make something happen for sure okay and what what Lindsay our executive producers okay done amazing ball my next thing oh my next thing we're still having an interview now I'm like wait I

want it I've already like I'm already on this other idea okay let's continue this interview no Jamie the body positivity like kale is super into that as well and just like the postpartum and all the things I've only had one baby and it's been eight years but as I've watched kale go through the journey and like the changes and watching your instagram and you go through the journey and the changes I'm just totally into the real and the rawness of what postpartum actually looks like because I think that instagram is such a space and kale and I've talked about this so many times that it's such a space that we love but also a space that sometimes like doesn't feel totally safe and um you know you always have to feel like you have to be like on

your p's and q's or you know someone's gonna like make fun of you or say something negative about you and your appearance how did you like really break out of the mold and just like become comfortable and like an advocate for other women okay so I think I think this is actually I'm just realizing now kind of like the truth behind my ability to just like really be body positive to like really put it all out there and so I had my son my I had my daughter my first daughter in um in august and this was you know she's actually like my second born baby I lost my first son um but and even after this is the interesting thing is that even after my son who I lost um I still like you know like I still had like the postpartum like kind of like like weight gain and hormones and

all that but I just didn't have a baby at home to be with me and so because I was so like just obviously like incredibly sad and just like in this deep dark depression I just like forced I like wanted this is gonna sound so um I don't know like dark but like I really kind of wanted to hurt myself because I felt like I didn't and I don't mean that like I wasn't like trying to commit suicide or anything like that but like I just wanted I pushed I ran so hard that it would hurt my chest like I would run so hard that like I couldn't breathe and it was like and I lost my son in July so it was in the the middle of the summer and it was so hot and I would go in the middle of the day just because I I don't know why like I almost I just needed I felt so numb

anyways and I felt like I like kind of um uh sorry I'm gonna get I haven't like gotten emotional or this in a really long time but anyways um I just felt like I did him a disservice by not like my body failed him like there was nothing wrong with him and my body failed him and it it just killed me on the inside and so I wanted to like I just had to like run and like just like I don't know it was like the animalistic it was it about yes like like you had to feel something you had to feel yes alive you had to feel something like was it that because that's like when you're telling telling this I that's what I picture yeah it's more like I wanted to feel pain like I wanted to hurt myself like not hurt myself but like kind of I don't know push yourself to the limits or

yeah like and then obviously like I knew that like running it's like health like it gives you endorphins and it would it would make me so after I like pushed myself so so hard like I would feel like a little bit better you know like but also like for like weird reasons like for feeling the pain but for like also like I don't know I just did so anyways I never had any issue with like you know weight gain or whatever or postpartum with with him for that you know for that because I was like literally like forcing myself to to like push myself um and then with my daughter I was so busy when we were filming a TV show when I had her and they were it was no COVID so they were the whole crew and Kay Kayl you know all about this like they well um be in your house and the

whole nine things and so um yep you know I just was so busy working I was also a registered nurse still like working at the hospital so I had so much I was just so hard working that like I there wasn't a chance I felt like to have weight gain on because I was just constantly moving but then with my son it's COVID it's a pandemic and prior to even having him I'm you know isolated in my house like not going anywhere and I was eating my feelings like I would I'm not even kidding you I would eat like one night I literally had a half a gallon of ice cream and I was I didn't even feel sick I didn't even feel full like I was like I could have more this is weird like I don't know why I can eat like this and not and then I finally get it like I get why some people can eat so much

because like I don't know I just like felt like I needed to eat and so I did and I would have milk and cookies like I mean I would eat a bag of Oreos and like half a gallon of milk like and I was just like I didn't even feel sick like I just felt like I like it was fine so needless to say I have my son in a like a home birth and whatnot and um which was pretty you know that's a whole other podcast episode but um you'll have a home birth too her last oh my goodness you that's so we have so much in common I feel like we have to meet I live I live I live in Delaware I literally texted my publicist like while we've been on this podcast and I'm like I love Jamie so much she's just like me like we're the same we have we are I know I want to go back and watch your season of Teen Mom

and I want to like yeah we have an awful lot in common seasons one and two are on Netflix they are I am literally gonna binge your show because now I want to get to know you through and obviously I know that TV is like you know it is what it is but uh I'm totally gonna go back and watch your show now um but yeah so uh uh yeah so with my daughter and obviously I'm long-winded here I go telling you all about everything but um so with my daughter I definitely or with my son I I gained like and I still am like I don't know 40 or 50 pounds overweight and it's definitely you know um noticeable like I remember I was at like this small get together because it's COVID so there wasn't a lot of people there but it was last summer and we were outside so we felt safe and um someone close to me said oh

my god Jamie your boobs are so big and I'm literally like two months postpartum and I same it's not just my boobs that are big clearly it's my whole body and so I literally said to her yeah my whole body is a lot bigger like yeah like thanks for pointing it out and like literally everybody just stopped and looked at me and I was like this is awkward and so I almost I feel like I don't know like I feel like a I'm not I don't want to be like so insecure about myself like it's clear that I am definitely bigger uh like da you can see it um but also like I don't want to miss out on life with my kids because of my body like I and also like right and then another thing is like how many I mean I just had a baby and whether I just had the baby or not it doesn't matter like

I like my body does not is not the only thing about me that's worthy of like love and you know and acceptance and whatnot and what does it I mean so many women gain weight and our bodies are made to fluctuate and like morph in different sizes and stretch and grow and shape so why I like I don't know like of course I was insecure about it and I I'm I almost like put myself out there like super bare so that people would know that I am well aware that I have gained a lot of weight but and and I almost did it like as like a uh like to kind of prevent myself from being super ashamed of of myself like I knew that this could be some because I've never been and I've always cared about my like body I always thought skinny was beautiful I always thought that you

know like no acne is the prettiest because that's what our society tells us but it's honestly it's not true and also if you think about what a woman's body has looked like in the past it's considered quote unquote beautiful and by the way that beauty is based on some dude's standard that like then every other person you know like men tend to dictate what makes a woman's body beautiful which is not okay um because like they're not even women but uh like the standard has changed and it will continue to change endlessly so before you know Marilyn Monroe is like the most like the furthest back I can remember where and she had a curvy body and men loved the curves and then Twiggy comes around and she's just a supermodel that's like literally a twig which is why her name's Twiggy

and that's her body shape and it's beautiful she's beautiful Twiggy you know but then you know that does not that's not everybody's body shape but yet that's like the standard that all women are held to and then here comes Kim Kardashian thank god for Kim Kardashian because she made butts and boobs like a thing and so then now it's like nice to have butts and boobs but like not everybody has this little to itty bitty waist like and quite frankly like if you I mean I'm such a nerd I I do I would get like straight A's and I really loved like history was like one of my subjects that I really loved and in history like the fatter you were the more fat you had the hotter you were the more desirable you were because it meant you had more food and you had

access like you had you had more wealth essentially so throughout like history and bodies like literally every shape and size has like been desirable but now all of a sudden like you know we're only exposed to like what's on tv in the magazines prior to social media and now with social media you know there are some accounts out there and I'm trying to be one of those accounts myself to just bear it like it is and it's twofold for me it's a to help other women know that their their worthiness is not in their you know their lack of fat rolls and lack of cellulite because literally every single one of us have fat rolls I don't care how skinny you are you got fat rolls like you got skin rolls and you got cellulite like it's just human nature but also like you know it's helps me like realize

like it just helps me remind myself like I'm still worthy and I don't and also it's like then everybody like when I saw I saw an old friend from the bachelor actually coincidence coincidentally recently and I was like saying to her like I just was so freeing that she already I'm obviously significantly heavier than when we hung out last like I mean I'm like I'm like a whole other person kind of and it because I was like literally in a size zero and now I'm in a size like 12 or something I don't even know like I feel like sizes are all over the place but I'm definitely not in a size zero and I was saying to her like it's just so freeing because I know that she's seen me in pictures on social media so she knew that I was bigger so it just helped me not feel so insecure like I was

like oh she already knows that I'm bigger so it's not a big deal and it really wasn't a big deal it's fine it's it is it's just so freeing so that's where I'm at with I did you feel like that Lindsay knows no I truly I'm in a place right now where like I don't want to go see people because I'm not happy with myself and I don't like I've struggled with like Lindsay and I used to meet up I think like once a month almost for podcasting just so that we could get content for socials website etc and like there was where points where like I didn't even want to go I would go I didn't want to go because one I didn't fit into the clothes the same way I felt bigger I felt bloated and actually our last trip together was not this last one Philadelphia but in

right before I had my son but I didn't know I was pregnant I was so bloated and so uncomfortable and I just felt disgusting and just like at a bigger point in my life like right now today as I'm speaking this I'm at my highest weight I've ever been and I just I'm not happy with myself and so like my clothes fit differently I don't Lindsay and I have a trip coming up and like I just don't want like I I hate it so it's like one of those things where like half of my brain is like go get fit which I'm going to the gym every day and then the other half of me is like I'm almost 30 like just embrace your body like just be okay with it and like I am on some days like on some days I'm okay but on other days I'm like holy shit I hate my body so it's just like

one of those things where like and then like Lindsay's super fit and super thin and like just like like what I aspire to be and so like then it not that it's Lindsay's fault it's not Lindsay's fault right right I feel even bigger because I'm like wow like I would you know in 2016 I was at the healthiest I've ever been like worked out I you know I did have surgery I had cosmetic surgery but I maintained it for the entire year like until I got pregnant like I and I was so happy when I was there but like now I can't get the weight off to save my life like I don't know what's going on well first of all like truly like like just like woman to woman like you are you are beautiful like truly truly truly I can promise you that and I have I don't actually

I don't even know what you look like I've got to be really really honest I don't I have to like no that's okay I really don't even know what you look like which is very crazy because I'm sure that everybody listening is like god have you lived under a rock like and I'm sure when I see you like I will know who you are because you've probably been on every magazine and I'm sure I've seen you and you know like on commercials and whatnot but like I can tell you without even seeing you that you are so beautiful like I just talking to you like I can just you radiate beauty like you really do and I feel like oh my god stop it no I'm serious I'm not even like I'm dead dead serious and like I think that I'm actually like creating this whole course right now it's

called become body positive and I haven't really put it out there too much because I'm like trying to like tweet fine tune it and stuff but like because like when you say I don't know if I should just try to lose weight continue to try to lose weight to get back to that goal weight or just embrace my body like I just don't know I like want to be like girl just embrace your body because you're not going to lose and I do want some days I think I think social media which is another thing that Lindsay and I talk about all the time is like social media makes it so hard when we're constantly comparing ourselves to other people and like what we're the quote unquote supposed to be or supposed to look like or yes you know what I'm saying and so that it makes it

very very difficult and it's just something that I've struggled with since I was in high school probably before that like my weight is very like I have a ton of friends who their weight doesn't change like unless they're pregnant their weight doesn't change where mine I literally will fluctuate pounds of weight within a week so it's just very different for me like I I don't know like I just struggle a lot with it so like some days I do I feel so good about myself I'm like it's fine as long as I'm working out and I feel good it doesn't matter but then other days I'm like I really just need to drop this weight like that's just the goal so I just I go back and forth with it that's so normal I feel like honestly that is so normal and normal and even I like you know

someone who is actively trying to embrace my body as is like of course even I struggle with that I mean and it's because like everything that's thrown in our face is that you're really not beautiful and you're not worthy unless you're you know size X or you're going to be so much happier when you are size X and lose this amount of weight because and like the because of that is because then like you're what society dictates as beautiful and and then you're gonna have like some sort of self-worth I mean you're so not alone there like I mean it's so so normal and your feelings are so incredibly validated like like just so valid I should say like so yeah you're not alone there but I don't know if I could give any advice like at all it's just like I so okay one time when I

was younger I was so I was a cheerleader in high school and I was like kind of like the bigger cheerleader like and I wasn't even big oh my god looking back now I'm like girl you weren't even big like but um I ended up in the first job I ever got was Arby's which is obviously not like of course I'd always ate it I was 14 mine was Wendy's I have to say that um McDonald's is forever my fave I love me um cheese burger with no pickles and fries and a coke like oh my god that's the best meal for McDonald's if you ask me but um uh anyway so I and so then the other the like the next job that I got was this chocolate store job while I was a cheerleader and I'm like these are not jobs that are going to help me with my physique like I just want to eat I get a discount on both of the

like the fast food and the chocolate and I'm going for it but um I remember this girl came in to the chocolate store and she was bigger she wasn't like you know I mean she was she was definitely bigger but she was so confident in her like she was so beautiful and she just radiated beauty and I was like you know what I'm never going to be what's interesting hear this whole story out okay I was like I am never going to be a size zero I'm just never going to be a size zero that's not in my body like my mom's bigger everyone's bigger I'm never going to be small like I I should just embrace who I am and I'm not even kidding you soon after that I got a job as a waitress at Applebee's and I started to just embrace my body and love myself just the way I am and I'm not even kidding

you first of all the weight like literally like melted off me and I wasn't even trying for it I was literally I literally didn't even care I stopped caring about the food I was eating I stopped and it's funny because when you stop caring and putting all this weight on and like all this importance on every calorie that you're eating and every type of food that you're eating all of a sudden you just kind of eat like like only like what do you really your body needs and you stop overeating you don't binge you don't deprive yourself like you just eat so steadily and just so in like such a nurturing way and I kid you not I mean I literally have photos of evidence of all this like I just the weight that's when I started that's when I went down to like a size zero I just

and I wasn't even trying I was always someone who loved to run I've always loved to run it just like those the runner's high is so real and so I've always like kind of strived for that and I've always ran so I always like I ran when I was bigger and I ran when I'm smaller I mean I don't really run now because I am like quite frankly like lazy but um I should actually start running because it might give me that runner's high um but uh I go for like walks for it instead which really isn't the same but you know it's better than nothing but honestly to be very very honest like the weight just melted off when I started to embrace myself and this whole thing that I have now is like I don't want like someone's goal to be like for the become body positive like I'm not

going to be like listen embrace yourself in the way it's going to fall off that's not the goal like the goal is to just embrace yourself and just love yourself and whether the weight falls off or not just I mean like like just embrace yourself and it's just a nice side effect if you start to lose a little weight because now all of a sudden you're not putting so much importance on every single bite you take or trying not to take the next bite and then binging like the day later because you're just freaking hungry like ah like that's kind of how I feel about that like you know I wish I could share that with you more like social media doesn't make it easy for anyone I mean I mean it's so true you started TV at 23 years old from your bachelor days Kale's been on TV

since she was 16 or 17 years old I think my first scene on Chris Lee knows best I think I was 22 or 23 years old I was a hundred pounds from my first scene of Chris Lee knows best I had a baby and now I am like fluctuating between 112 and 115 and literally get comments sometimes that people saying oh it looks like you had filler in your face it's just like no you just saw me at 100 pounds when I was 22 years old and now I'm 31 and I have you know better habits and it's you know I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum I have to you know make sure that I'm getting enough calories and doing all of the things so I think to everybody's point in this conversation that every woman can relate to some degree because we all struggle in different ways

and it's just nice to like have a community of people whether you feel overweight or whether you feel underweight or whether you just like don't feel worthy that there are people out there that are fellow women they're advocating you know for you to feel good about yourself and I actually kind of love that you're on the other end of the spectrum and you actually have to take in calories to try to stay healthy because that's also a thing that's never that's rarely talked about and then if you say something like that women are like oh nice problem for you to have like I wish I had that problem but it's like actually this is a this is a sincere issue that I might have and you know like it's just um it's just like humanizes literally all of our problems like

like all of the weight and I think that like that the fact that like weight is such and like a topic of conversation and something that's on someone's mind almost every single day for probably I mean like I don't know like most people think about their body and their weight like literally every single day but I'm telling you that there was a time in my life that I didn't really think about it like I just didn't really care and that really was like the smallest I ever was and it was the healthiest I ever was and I kind of want to like help I don't know help women and men if they have this struggle but doubtful because women like I personally like women just don't judge men the way that I feel like men judge at all but um yeah like we like love them skinny fat we don't we love them

all and like but for them they're like you gotta have a big butt and a tiny waist or you I don't want a big butt like you know big boobs are my thing and it's like f you like how about what about my brain and my personality um but uh I guess like that's like kind of like my my mission is to just kind of like minimize like the importance that we put on our weight in our body and like to really kind of like I don't know accentuate our like our talents like our other talents that we have like we I mean some people are such good artists some people are like so therapeutic to talk to like I mean there's so many different talents and like oh my god why do we spend so much time talking about like how much weight we have on our body or what size jeans we're in I agree well I know that

we are running out of time for today's episode however I feel like we could talk for like five more hours and not get bored um I know yes but can you tell our listeners where they can find you on Instagram and your podcast etc oh yeah absolutely so I'm at Jamie N Otis it's Jamie N Otis because my middle name is Nicole and I'm not even kidding you I made the handle Jamie N Otis because I was like oh that makes me look more professional doesn't it like to have your real initial in there yeah yeah yeah um and then so yeah so on Instagram is at Jamie and Otis and that's like Twitter and everything and then um the podcast our podcast is Hot Marriage Cool Parents and you can download that and listen to that wherever you're listening to this podcast

I love that yes I love it all right guys well I hope you enjoyed this episode if you have not followed us on at coffee combos podcast on Instagram make sure you follow us over there and if you have not subscribed to us make sure you do that from your favorite podcast app if you are an Apple user you can do that from the purple podcast app on your iPhone type in coffee combos click subscribe click the fifth star and leave us a written review we hope you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon see you