Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 151: True Crime Talk: Joel Guy Jr. feat. Morbid

Episode Date: March 26, 2021

On this month's true crime bonus episode, Lindsie and Kail are joined by the hosts of Morbid Ash and Alaina. This month they are discussing the chilling and gruesome case of Joel Guy Jr. who murdered his parents. What exactly was his motive, and just how much premeditation went into it. Plus a prime example as to why video surveillance can come in handy. This episode was sponsored by: E.L.F. Cosmetics, Minted, Jenni Kayne, and Chime Have a question you want answered? Want to give Kail and Lindsie a call? Leave them a message at ?(609)-316-0060?. Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

Okay, welcome to another episode of Coffee Combo's podcast. Kale. Listen, you know what? It's pouring fucking rain in Dover, Delaware, and I just got an internal exam or whatever at my fertility specialist, and now I'm inhaling sushi, and I actually, the medicine that I'm on right now for PCOS, I shit for everything that I eat, and so I don't know how the sushi is going to do for me, but I feel like it's low carb, so. I feel like it kind of is fitting with the true crime thing that it's like a crime scene,

you know, like your life is a crime scene. Currently. I can't deal. Okay, so I have a question for you that I've been dying to ask you. Okay, so first of all, the budgeting thing that we talked about last week was obviously a big hit. People really are interested in it, so I'm excited to add that part to the show, but I just need to know what all you have been learning from Gordon Ramsay.

Well, I haven't learned anything. Do you have it, Lindsay? I googled it, okay, I understand, I fucked up. I've been waiting to ask you that, like, wait, why did you not catch on or were you just letting me rock? No, no, no, no, I didn't catch on initially because I was just so invested in the conversation that I was just kind of like, I knew the last name Ramsey and you know, we talked about John Bonnet Ramsey, all the Ramses, so I was just like, you know, it was legitimate, Sandra

legitimate knew I'd heard that last name when it was like talking about budgeting. So, but then when I started reading DMs, I was like, Oh, wow, and then I saw that you posted that funny thing on the story about how Gordon Ramsay was a chef. And then it was just like really funny to me. So I've been waiting all week to ask you what you had learned. Well, so I sometimes will pop into our listeners have made like a fan page on like a community fan page on Facebook and sometimes I'll get notifications so I'll go in there. And that's when I realized because they made a post about it.

And I literally was in tears at my own, just like stupidity, not knowing like I was crying, laughing. So I was like, Wow, like I really thought I was saying something. It was like something that was so profound, which has now probably turned into a meme all over the internet. So there's that I really hope that you don't shit from the sushi. That's my hope for this episode. But then before we get started with the true crime stuff, I just wanted to thank everyone

for all the dog recommendations. I think that I found a breed that I love and I'm not going to tell you guys, I want it to be a surprise. And now it's just about finding the right, yeah, I'll tell you, but it's just about finding the right place, the right timing. A lot of people say to get dogs over the summer because then you have yes, 100% the whole summer to like really get them trained and stuff. And I'm pretty diligent when it comes to the training.

Like potty training. Yeah. Like I don't like accidents in the house and stuff. So I'm really good about like taking them out, but it was so funny. I have to tell you this story when Della was little. I thought that she needed to pee like every 30 minutes. So I would like take her outside to go pee every 30 minutes and it kind of like put us at a disadvantage because then I didn't teach her to like hold her bladder because I was

always at home. So I could always just let her out because Jackson was so little. I was doing like the stay at home mom thing, but then she would start having accidents in her crate when I got busier and I wasn't at home. So are you supposed to train them to like hold their pee or like not? I did the same thing with karma. Like I even set my alarm in the middle of the night to take her out. You did?

Yeah. Okay. So this is going to be a whole new thing. Like I can do kids, but like I'm not a pro on dogs. So that'll be interesting. But moving on from that, we did get an interesting message that I wanted to read on here. As you guys know, we kind of gave you a heads up on what case we were going to be covering. We are covering the murders of Joel and Lisa Guy and we have the host of Morbid on the

podcast today. So we're super excited about that, but the message that we got was first of all, love the podcast. I need it. Like I need my coffee, but second, I was listening and her jaw are doing a true crime on Joel Guy and I almost passed out. I had gone to middle school in Louisiana with him before moving to go to a different high school, but a bunch of my friends all continued to go on to high school with him.

He was crazy weird in elementary school and middle school and I just remember he was very smart and talked kind of like Sheldon from Big Bang. When I heard about what he did, what he did to his parents, we were all literally floored that he could have done it. So sad. Really. I can't wait to hear all of the details on the episode. So I thought that was really cool.

Could you imagine going to school with a murderer? No, I cannot. Like I know for sure, like I don't know anyone, but I'm at least not off the top of my head. Well, I can't imagine. I mean, I say like a murderer, but it's also like a murderer, sex offender, like any of those things. If I found out anything like that, I would be totally creeped out and just like weirded out, you know, yes, definitely.

So anyhow, I am going to get morbid on the phone and we're going to get into it. Thank you guys so much for coming on our podcast. I'm kind of fangirling a little bit because I'm so into true crime that this is really exciting. Oh my God. Thank you guys. Seriously. We're like fangirling.

We love you guys. We've been telling everybody around us, everybody in our house of like, you know, who we get to record with. I'm like, have you ever listened to coffee combos? If you haven't, you need to. Thanks. Thank you for promo-ing us. That's really special.

Anytime. Yeah, of course. I love it. So have you guys covered the murders of Joel and Lisa Guy or is this brand new to you? We have not covered this, which is when I had not even heard of this, which blew my mind. Yeah. Same here.

We haven't covered it. And then I was reading about it last night and I was like, uh, excuse me. It's so good. This was a kale find. Yeah. Well, so my friend had told me about this and I was like, oh, how have I not heard about it? And so I immediately had to tell Lindsay and then we were like, this would be perfect for

our episode with you guys. Seriously, this is like, it brings gruesome to a whole new level, which is really our vibe. Unfortunately. That's who we are. I was telling Ash yesterday when we were just like briefly texting, I said, um, no offense, but like, I'm not dismembering a body for a $500,000 life insurance policy. Like no chance.

Not worth it. How much did you say it was $500,000 life insurance policy? Okay. No. I would say that that's the sole reason that he killed his parents. I agree with you. I think there was way more to it. It was definitely.

Okay. So money though. Yeah. For sure. It definitely. Definitely. Or get to work. Just work at all, work period.

So just to give the listeners a little background on this case, it's, um, something that happened in 2016, um, in Knoxville, Tennessee the weekend after Thanksgiving, Joel Guy Jr. murdered and dismembered his parents and he stabbed his father at least 42 times and his mother at least 31 times and was convicted of both murders in October of 2020, which is fairly recent and received life in prison. Both parents were soon to retire and stop providing money to their son. And he was to get their $500,000 life insurance policy from both parents, um, if they, you know, if they died.

So I agree. I don't think, um, the money was the whole motive, but also, um, definitely motive for him. Oh yeah. For sure. Yeah. Cause did you guys see like, and I'm sure we'll get into it, he wrote down like a very detailed list of like how to do this.

And I think there was one whole page that was like assets and he like wrote down what he would get. How did you not think someone was going to find that? Like that's literally like, I killed my parents, XO, me. Right. Well, that's what I thought. It was like what, I mean, he obviously wasn't very bright in that aspect because you, you really wrote it down and had it all figured out, except for you didn't write except for

you failed. You did not follow your to do list accordingly. He wrote literally every single, which I'm a list person. Oh hell yeah. That's whatever. But like in this case, skip it. Let's not write our murders down. Yeah.

Let's step by step. Yeah. It's not a good one to do in this situation. So what I read, Oh, go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead. Lindsay. No, no, no, you're fine.

You're fine. What I read was the book of premeditation that the prosecution use it is at his trial. It was like the handwritten journal that was found in his backpack. And like you guys were saying, it was detailed notes outlining his intent to murder and to destroy the remains of his parents. So like, I mean, like I was talking to Kale when we were on Philly about this, who just like thinks about me. I mean, this was almost like a grocery list.

Yes. Of things that he needed to get. So like killing knives and he would put quiet multiple sledgehammer so he could crush the bones. You know what? What he was using each thing for like a blender, a food grinder. Also, I just feel like I'm thinking back to like, um, breaking bad when they like try to destroy the body and acid in the bathtub and then the bathtub, it just creates a bigger

mess. Why are you doing it in the house? Right? Exactly. Always. What are you doing? You're so traceable for yourself. Yeah.

Like you are literally asking to be caught. Oh yeah. I mean, he filled up to, I think it was like blue containers with this crazy chemical compound that he made of like bleach and all kinds of things and then put parts of their body in there to kind of like try to corrode it away and it's like, what were you planning on doing with that? Like you're just going to carry two giant, like what? Like that those are just my trash bins.

No worries. Yeah. You've just added a whole lot more time to this situation than you had to. It's so weird. I don't understand it. No. Like he put like, okay, so I think that he thought he was smart when he was doing this. But it's like any murder case, right?

It's like you think that you're so smart, but with today's technology and even, I mean, for example, Kale and I were talking about their surveillance footage and how he was caught on several different cameras buying the supplies that he's going to later use to murder and dissolve his parents. Did he use cash for every transaction and use self-checkout most of the time? But did he just neglect the fact that there were surveillance cameras in any store that you would go to? Like sometimes I think people think that they're way smarter than they actually are, but like

who doesn't think about surveillance cameras? That's the thing. Oh, I think about them all the time. Yes. I mean, at Target, you're literally looking at yourself as you're checking out. Like, come on, dude. It seems like the most obvious thing is the thing he didn't think of. It's like he thought of all these little minute details.

He even was like, you know, if I turn up the heat in the house, it will slow to, it will like speed up the decomposition process and we will mess with the time of death. And it's like he thought of all these little things and then he was like, oh, I forgot that cameras are literally everywhere. How did you forget that? Well, it's like BTK was like, can I send you this floppy disk that will have my exact location? Can you tell me the truth if you can trace it back to me?

And they were like, sure, sure. It's always the simplest little thing that you're like really like mastermind behind a murder. Okay. I can't help but to think about his parents, like were they ever like freaked out by their own son? Because before we got you guys, yeah, like you have to know that something is off, right? Like as a mom of four kids, like I just feel like I wouldn't know if something was going

on, at least in this situation where I mean, there was something very, very wrong and also Lindsay read a message from one of our listeners prior to getting you guys on the call. Someone went to school with him and they said that he was obviously very different and for lack of better words, weird when he was a kid, a child. So I just feel like would the parents have not known something was off? Were they not scared of him? I wonder if it's one of those things where like hindsight is 20, 20 kind of like you're like, yeah, that was kind of weird hindsight now.

Yeah. And I wonder too, because there was a lot of reports that I saw that was like they were planning on, you know, telling him during Christmas that they were cutting him off financially because they were retiring and they were like, Hey, you're what, like 28 years old, maybe start paying for yourself. Like maybe we can stop supporting you now. They think that maybe he they changed their plan and told him during Thanksgiving and it's like if they had to like make a plan to tell sit down and be like, you have to stand on

your own two feet, 28 year old, I feel like maybe they were a little freaked out by him probably like, we need to plan this out and do this right, like, tell him in the easiest way. Yeah, or he's going to lose it. Oh, that's so, that's terrifying. Yeah. It really is so weird. Is that okay?

So you go back to the point that you guys were saying earlier on about him, you know, if you put bodies in the bathtub or, you know, whatever, his plan in his journal, he put it on there, that he was going to flood the house, it would cover up the forensic evidence. He was then going to turn on the heater as high as it goes. So it would speed up decomposition and that basically it would just like get rid of everything. But my question is, is why did he need to do all of these other things if he was just inevitably going to basically burn the house on fire? Well that's the thing.

It doesn't make sense. Right. And furthermore, like if you were going to do that, right? Why are you adding 12, like you are truly sick because you must want to do these things. Like you want to add these steps because you want to do it. But then like, if you're trying to be a beneficiary of your parents' life insurance or whatever, you know, that looked like for him, also why not make it look like a natural, like maybe gas leak, something along those lines?

Exactly. Like I just don't. Not like a brutal murder. I just don't understand. Yeah. When I was looking online too, like it says that, I guess someone interviewed him and it said that Joel Guy Jr. was fantasizing about gouging his cellmate's eyes out. Oh, I didn't see that.

So I don't know if any of you guys have, you did? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. Obviously something is very like wrong. So I just don't know how maybe nobody called, you know, to get help as a child. It's so hard to like think, but yeah, you're right. Like hindsight is 20-20. Yeah.

I think he seems like he enjoyed the process a little. For sure. A little too much. He didn't, he wasn't in it for the end result. He was in it for the how I get there. Like all of it. Yeah. He wrote the letter.

He writes a letter, I guess. It says, this is in his own handwriting. This was a bad idea. I'm psychologically unstable. I'm having fantasies of using my fingers to gouge this gentleman's eyes out of his head while he's unconscious and therefore he wouldn't be able to defend himself. Given that in these fantasies, it is essential that I use my fingers, a no, a no sharps restriction will accomplish nothing in, I can't really read his handwriting.

In deterring the, yeah, I can't read his handwriting. It's pretty, it's just a little messy, but he was writing this letter because I don't want to end up with a disciplinary infraction or worse, more criminal charges. So that's the only thing that's stopping him from wanting to do this. Wow. And even to reason that out is like interesting that he was like, you know, I really want to do this, but I can't. Yeah.

The fact that he was able to vocalize it or put it like pen to paper to talk about it is interesting. So the insanity plea would never work because he clearly knows right from wrong. But he's still having the thoughts. So that's, that's interesting. Yeah. You guys cover a lot of these cases, are there commonalities, like what turns a person into something like this?

Like are you, nature versus nurture, you think, like, what do you think, like, what do you think that is? It's so funny because we've actually been talking about that a lot more recently. And sometimes it's like a combo of both. Sometimes it's totally just one and totally just the other. So, but I feel like more times than not, it's a combo of both a lot of times. It feels like there was something in there from the beginning that was always there. Maybe if it wasn't fostered in like a negative way, maybe they could have got through it

and maybe they could have used some other outlet to get it out, like therapy or something. But then when you add in the nurture part of it and like abuse, neglect, anything like that, that's when I feel like it just stokes the fire. Absolutely. So I feel like that's why with this, it's like, what else was good? Like I would never want to like speculate that something terrible was going on in that house. Did something happen?

You know? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good point. I definitely have those same feelings. I think it's, it's, there are definitely people though, I think that don't have it in them and it's like a spur of the moment thing or just situational, maybe they just go down the wrong path and it's more of like a manslaughter or heat of the moment.

Not that that's okay. I'm totally not justifying those things. I'm just saying, I think maybe that's a little bit different than like, I don't know wanting to grind up your parents or like, I think I read that the mom's head was in a boiling pot, like in a pot on the stove when the, when the authorities got there. And so that's absolutely terrifying and just like unfathomable for me. I just can't understand like the thought process there, like how one gets to those, those thoughts and then to act it out is like even more disturbing.

Yeah. The brutality behind it, like there's definitely anger toward the parents and I do have to wonder if it was only because of like financial reasons and the premeditation, right? The lengths he went through to plan this out. I mean, those notes and buying things and really planning it out from the gecko. It's like that's, that's like, but you know, there's something there now that I think of it actually, it's like a little bit of a different case, but there I forget the guy's name and he killed essentially his entire family because he was like, he thought that he was dating

this online like escort kind of woman and he was, he continued to like pay for her and then his parents cut him off and like forbid him from going on the site and he killed them and like plans the whole thing out. Yeah. So I guess there doesn't necessarily always have to be like something. I feel like if it's in there, it's in there, whether it gets fostered or not, it could go one way. It could go another way.

Yeah. It's just the brutality is so nuts. Yeah. I couldn't imagine being so triggered by one event, like let's say, let's just play hypothetically that there had been conversations of them cutting him off. I couldn't imagine him being so triggered by that to go through this extensive process to grind them up and kill them in this way. They have surveillance footage all the way back from November 7th.

This happened on November the 26th. They have him at Ace Hardware buying stuff and then on the 18th at Home Depot and then on the 19th at Academy Sports and then on November 21st, he was at a Walmart. So nuts. And his parents obviously didn't know that the murders were coming. I mean, not that anyone would really know, but you know, sometimes maybe in some cases, people might have suspicions that something could happen. But the mom was actually caught on surveillance footage shortly before she was murdered buying

groceries at Walmart. So that's so sad. She obviously didn't know. But did he have like a car and stuff or did he use his mom's car? Because that's even that would be even more sick. I don't know. I know that when the Lisa Guy's boss had requested a welfare check because it just wasn't normal for her to be absent from work.

And so when the police went out to do the welfare check, they could just see that the grocery items like they said bacon, sausage, ice cream was sitting at the front door. And then there was a hole in the back door that they could sense heat and like a strange smell that was coming from the house. And then from another angle, that's how they saw the groceries. So then they were able to get in the car, get the garage door opener, and that allowed them to be have access to the house. And so when they went into the house, they were able to see the guy's wallets.

There was a sledgehammer. And then there was guns and then that's when they saw the pot that was boiling on the stove that had her head in it. So I'm just that's disgusting. Yeah. What is it? Could you imagine? Oh, yeah.

Could you imagine being one of the officers like having to walk in to see that? Oh, yeah. You don't know what's around any corner. I can't even imagine like what was what were the thoughts going through his head like that obviously didn't register to him that I don't know. There could be a welfare check or anything like that. So I mean, obviously he was very behind in his process. So like what was going through his was he like, oh, shit, I got caught or like, what

was that thought process? Because I know he lived in it looks like he lived in Baton Rouge, I think, and he had three sisters and they had all been over there for Thanksgiving. Okay. Yeah. And I think he was the only one that was staying for like the weekend or something. And they all said the sister said it. We thought it was weird. He wanted to stay for the weekend.

Oh, see, that's the thing. I can't imagine looking back on that and being like, oh, that was why. Yeah. And I guess in his notes, he had written something like, you know, because I wondered I was like, oh, the groceries were like by the, you know, right out in the open and everything. But in his notes, he had written that he he was like kill him, which I like the fact that he didn't even write like mom and dad. Well, I feel like that almost would have been worse too. But it's it's weird. He was so disconnected.

Yeah. And the whole thing connected. Yeah. Like he totally removed himself and like dehumanize them. Just absolutely those people. There's definitely a psychology behind that. Yeah. And he wrote like kill him and do, you know, do what I have to do there. And then he said surprise her when she comes in, like clean up after that and then get her. So I wonder

if, you know, he he got it. And then she came home from grocery shopping. Well, and his whole thing was that he wanted to pin it on his dad, that his dad did this. It's like, I just don't understand how he thought that was going to work out. I think he was thinking he was going to get rid of most of him. He was going to burn the house down, right? Yeah. Oh, wow. I just again, why not make it look like natural causes like a gap, like I said before, like a gas leak or I don't know, they went on a trip and they went missing. And then,

you know, he would have had a better chance of getting away with it. Like I don't know how like where I would have personally never thought about putting the heat up so that I mean, it looked like the bodies were the, you know, dead longer or whatever. So it was like some major just like disconnect and like the thought process. Yeah, because even if you do like light the place on fire or flood the place, if you had done it and I like hate to think this way, but I'm like, if like you said, you had done it like a gas leak or like, yeah, even hell even poisoning, I don't know, like something that's not physically obvious, then at least you could be like, yeah, maybe this happened

right. Chopping up a body is not normal, not natural, complete murder. Like there's no way out of around that. Yeah, like these firefighters coming to this burning building are going to be like, yeah, these bodies are in pieces. And some of them are in pots on the stove. Like they didn't just die. Like this is, it would never work. And even speeding up the decomp by turning the heat up, like they're going to look at that and say, Oh, that's weird. Right. Yeah. Right, right. That's a good point. See, I wouldn't know. Yeah, it's just the whole thing is crazy. And then Kale, to your point, you were asking if he had a car. I remember reading that when they did arrest him, the FBI and the local police or

whatever, they did it in his apartment complex. And he tried to get into his car and that's where he wasn't, they did the welfare check and he wasn't there. Is that how it went? Right. Yeah. Okay. So in my head, when I was reading it, because I skimmed through like the pot in the head in the pot on the stove thing. I guess in my head, I pictured like him being like mid action, trying to cover up the body situation, like trying to dismember them and all of these things. Okay, so he had an apartment. Could you imagine? And you're like, sir, oh my gosh. Right. So, okay. So he's not there and they're probably, I mean, it had to have been soon after where they go arrest him. They arrested him on the

29th of November, I believe. So like the 26th is when he killed them, I guess. And then they arrested him on the 29th. But when they went to arrest him, he was trying to get into his car and then they had also found the meat grinder in his trunk. So again, that goes back to the dehumanization of him with his parents, like he had completely dehumanized them because could you imagine just like putting them, putting human remains like in a meat grinder, like what could possibly be your thought process to think, I mean, we're not going to try to rationalize like with this person because it's not normal. But what could possibly be going through your head to think that that is normal to like that you would

need a meat grinder for your parents. That's it's it's so overkill. And it's so like, oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, that is, it's like, it's dehumanizing, it's degrading. It's like, it seems like a punishment. Like it seems like there's so much more like rage after that, you know, this isn't just like, I'm going to stab them and set the house on fire. That's rageful enough. But to like add all this like really humiliating, like I'm going to cut her head off and put it in a pot on the stove. Like that's saying something. I don't know what it is, but that's some rage behind there. Oh, absolutely.

So the three daughters I was reading were from a previous marriage. So I almost wonder if there's some kind of like jealousy involved here. Like maybe he thinks like his father liked his daughters better or something like that. I'm just trying to like rationalize why they had it together more than he did. And he was, yeah, I'm just trying to rationalize why he was so angry at his parents. Yeah, because the anger didn't seem to be directed towards the sisters at all. Yeah. So maybe it has something to do with, you know, how how he felt like he was maybe less treated different. Yeah. The girl that wrote in said that she felt like, what did she say? Kale that he his personality

was like Sheldon from Big Bang is how she, yes, I've never seen that show. So I don't know what, what type of personality as, um, but do have you seen it? Yes, I have. Have you guys watched, ever watched the Big Bang theory? I've never like watched a full episode, but I've seen bits and pieces and I've seen Sheldon. Yeah, I've seen Sheldon. Don't quote me, but I want to say that his character had Asperger's. I think you're right. I was going to say that. I'm looking it up right now because I didn't, um, wait, why? Oh, okay. Maybe there was just like something, um, that he just like didn't, but somebody with Asperger's is extremely intelligent, right? Like, yeah, super intelligent, but might not get social

cues. So that might be why people thought he was like, quote unquote weird. And the other thing is I think that was supposed to be a chemist. Wasn't he like, he studied to become a chemist. Oh, was he? I know. Yes, I read that. So he must have been like pretty brilliant. Those are smart genes. And I wonder if it's one of those things where you know, like you're super book smart, but like, like you don't have common sense, you know, right, right, right, right. Or like you said, yeah, common sense. Because I feel like some of the things like I would have never thought of, right? You know what I mean? And like, like you said, I hate to think this way, but like I would have never thought about like turning the

temperature up or like, um, just like certain things. You just, I would never think of them, but then he did. But then there was like a whole other side of it that we, we don't, we can't understand. So, um, yeah, I definitely think it's like a maybe street smart is not, is not so much there. Cause I think he even wrote down in some of those notes, uh, there was something about getting DNA from someone else under one of their fingernails. And then also, uh, I read that. Yeah. And like sending a text message from the mom's phone to him when he was in Baton Rouge, so that it would make it so she looked still alive at a certain point. And

he was in Baton Rouge at that point. So it would take him away from, it's like an alibi. It's like an alibi, but that's funny. He like worked. He worked harder, not smarter. Yeah. Yes. Yes. That's a perfect way to put it. Exactly what this case is. Unfortunately. I, yeah, I can't understand the whole thing. I, there's a YouTube video, I guess, of like all of the verdict and, um, how like the court hearing went and stuff. And it says, I mean, obviously they reached a unanimous verdict and he was guilty on all seven counts. Um, I'm curious to see will he stay? He, it says that he's at the, the Bledsoe County Correctional Center. Um, I don't know where that is. Oh, I guess it's in Tennessee. And that's where

the murders took place. I think. Yeah. Wow. That's so interesting. I, I don't know. I have no, I have no words almost. This is one of those cases you just can't point to like anything concrete here. You're just like, you have to speculate a little so nebulous. Like, are they going to do, um, you know, Netflix series and things like that? It would be curious to see if they're going to do anything with it. They should. This I absolutely watch this to be like, what the hell happened? It's just the psychology portion of it alone. That's the thing. I would love to have them like hire some kind of like crazy psychologist and be like, this is what happened.

Which brings me to the point to say I struggle a lot with following some of these cases and glorifying, you know, with the YouTube videos and, you know, us talking about it on a podcast and then it getting coverage on Netflix or, you know, whatever stream that they decide to cover it on. Um, like there was a shooting yesterday in Colorado, for example, and a lot of people were posting about not glorifying the shooter. And I mean, I just wonder how much did in this case, did he really think he wasn't going to get caught? Cause in some cases I think that they do it for the thrill knowing that they're going to get caught. And there's some type of like weird psychological aspect behind it of the glorifying of, you

know what I'm saying? Absolutely. There's Chris Watts is very much like that, but he likes following his press. Yeah. He likes seeing people talk about it and he likes seeing that there's Netflix shows about it. So we have not covered Chris Watts like specifically because I found out he likes hearing about himself and I'm like, well, you're not going to hear about it. Yeah. I mean, but I don't think that that was the case in the situation. I really think that he thought he was smart enough not to get caught. Oh, 100%. Yeah. That's the only thing I can say

concrete about here is I think he thought he would get away with it. Oh yeah. He thought he had like the perfect, even just like if you look at the book of premeditation, he totally thought he had this in the bag for sure. How, how do you, I think that you have it in the bag. He was even caught on security camera after the murders because he got some crazy cut and he was like buying, I think it was out wall line again, the first aid. I'm like, dude, you're supposed to be placing yourself in Baton Rouge. Yeah, but then you're again on surveillance. Yes. He after the fact, he, he got like some type of cut to his hand, obviously when he was assaulting his dad. So then he was seen in Walmart's first aid section

and he was getting like bandages, ointment and all that kind of stuff. Hydrogen peroxide or whatever, like after the fact of killing him. Again, why would that not be something that you were thinking about? I can't remember. I read somewhere about how many security cameras that you pass in a day and I forget what the number was, but it was like a really high number. You literally can't go anywhere and do anything. Like you would think with today's technology that like murders, like wouldn't be a thing. Right? Seriously? Well, because even your phone, yes, give you up. Yeah. No, agreed. But I think to your point, like he thought that he had it in the bag. So the people that are still committing, you know, premeditated

murders is like, you think you're getting away with it. That's why, that's why there's still a thing. They think they're like the smartest in the room. I don't know if you guys ever covered the case. Her name was Skyler and her two like best friends left her in the woods in Pennsylvania. That case was horrific. Like horrific, but they really thought that they had it in the bag and they could get away with it and their phones gave them up. Like one of the investigating officers like went back after a year or so and the pings of the phone basically gave them up. So it's like, I just don't know how, I mean, I don't know, I can't. And then just like live, how can he even live for three days knowing that

he did those things? Like, did he feel satisfied? And then I'm kind of, I'm kind of unsure how I feel about the fact that they put him with a cellmate because if he's, he's capable of committing these types of murders to his own parents, what makes you think that he's not going to do something to to sell me? That's a huge point. That was okay. Yeah. I wonder if after they found that little letter that he wanted to gouge the eyes out, they were like, okay, maybe like maximum security, maybe solitary. Yeah, I don't know why they wouldn't put him in solitary. Exactly. Right. It doesn't make any sense. No, the whole thing is just this case is bizarre from top to bottom. It truly is. But then one thing that was interesting

to me was and just shows how twisted and self serving he obviously was as a human being. He pled not guilty, but then filed a motion that he be given the death penalty if he was convicted. So because he didn't want obviously to correct some of the guilt there. He doesn't want to live with this. If he gets caught with this, like fully, or do you think he doesn't want to have to live out his days in a prison cell? Well, that's the thing. Do you think it's guilty? That's what I think it is. I don't want to be contained in prison. It's self serving. Yeah, I think it either way. I think that's what it is. Yeah, but it could be a little mixture. So is the verdict not out? Do they not convict him then because

I thought that they did reading so that they okay, so the trial took four days and then he was found guilty, but sentenced to life in prison. But the motion that his counsel had filed was that if he was found guilty to give him the death penalty, which tells me that one, I feel like he knew that he was going to be found guilty. They had too much evidence, obviously. But then two, it's kind of like, Oh, well, you caught me. So now I don't want to suffer the consequences and lay in jail for the rest of my life. So just go ahead and kill me. Right. Which is like, do you really think that we're like the should the court listen to you what you want? Yeah, respect your wishes. Okay. So you file a motion

saying if I'm found guilty, I would like to be killed, please. And they're going to be like, Oh, anything to make you comfortable. That's our plan. Like, no, they're going to go the opposite way and be like, No, now you're going to sit in jail. I just don't even think they should have had a trial for him. They knew he was guilty. So even honestly, just like, you wasted four days on what he can't, he's not going to have a defense for this. There's no defense is really. Did you guys watch your like, what is the point? It's for the theater. Did y'all watch the YouTube though? I saw a couple of clips. And I saw one where the prosecutor referred to the scene where like, you know, various body parts are in,

you know, corrosive chemicals and bins and the head was on a stove. And he referred to it as a diabolical stew of human remains. And I was like, Did you have to? Yeah, like did you have to call it a diabolical stew of human remains stew? Yeah, like to make a stew this weekend. Never mind. I'm looking at his just like his handwritten plans. And I have to say like his like little like web diagram and like lists are not very organized or neat. Yeah, it's very like crazy, like all over the place thoughts. Have y'all ever met a person that I feel like he's a type of person that knows nothing but knows something about everything? Yes, like that

kind of person 100% such a good point. Yeah, I feel like that, that is him. And I think that he thought that he was just so smart. And then to just show how callous he was as a human being to be like, Okay, I'm not guilty. But if I am, then just go ahead and like wipe me off the planet. That's, that's fine. It's, it's so twisted and gross and pre meditated and just like all the nasty things that I, I can't get in this person's mind. But even when I've tried to get in other murderers minds to like reason, there's no reasoning like I can never find a form of reasoning why you would go to this extreme. Yeah, I feel like there just has to be some kind of anger. I don't know why, but especially

toward the dad, because even in the notes he wrote, like he needs to be blamed. He like crossed out his original plan and was like, he needs to be blamed. So I think there was some kind of anger toward the dad. And it's just all from the get go self serving. Oh yeah. It in the notes, it says don't have to get rid of a body if there's no forensic evidence. Yes. Um, but, but what do you mean there's no forensic evidence when you literally killed them in the house and there's DNA evidence everywhere, right? You did not fool anybody. That's what kills me. I'm like, get knives. No matter what you did, that's what it says. And even still we, if there, even if there wasn't any forensic evidence, like let's

look at probable cause buddy. Yeah. That's a potential like how you left a book of meat pre meditation, just like that back in your backpack. Do it for you. Bye. It literally has killing and then there's bullet for those of you who have not heard of this case or haven't looked anything up online. It's a notebook like probably college ruled. I don't know. Five subjects. And it says killing at the top. So yeah. And then underneath it's like bulleted get knives quick dash multiple another bullet get sledgehammer dash crush bones bring blender and whatever else is on here. It's like, are you just like, I can't get over. Okay. What I can't get over is the fact of, okay, not only do you cut someone's

like body parts off, but then the process of like, what did it look like from the time that he cut his mother's head off and walked it? I mean, was he like getting water in a pot like he was going to put vegetables on the stove? Like, what did that look like? And they said the scene, I mean, there was they said there was blood on every carpet. It was everywhere. And one of his notes was to get rid of the blood. Yeah. It's like, are you going to read? And he also wrote in the notes, leave through the front door, wipe down doorknob. And I was like, but dumbass, you were there for Thanksgiving. Like people know you were there, right? Your fingerprints not being on doorknobs would actually be weird.

You were there. Yeah. That's a good point. Correct. It's so, it's so strange. And then I watched some of the YouTube, but it freaked me out so much just like looking at him that I had to turn it off. It was like, it was one of those situations where it's like, I want to watch to like see more, but like, I can't watch to see more because I'm so freaked out by this man. His eyes and like the way he was, um, did you guys notice that? Like the way he was looking around and just behind the eyes. Nothing. Nothing was there. It was literally like just, it was like he wasn't even there. Like he was in just another planet. A lot of them have that look about them though. When you look at their eyes, it just, there's

nothing behind there. I feel like people, even just like, um, people who are victims, but like not necessarily murdered will be like, and I looked in his eyes and there was just nothing there. There's no human behind there. But back to what Kale was saying about like the nature versus nurture thing, I would have to believe that if you did enough research, there has to be some commonalities and people who go to these types of extremes from childhood. Like, is there a head injury that occurred? You know, like maybe. Yeah. That isn't reported. I mean, Richard Ramirez got like slammed in the head by a swing, right? At one point and was knocked out colds, which we always were like, what kind of swing was that? Like

is that like a concrete? Right? It was like damn, but either way, like he got knocked out when he was younger by getting hit in the head. And it's like, that seems to be a common thread in a lot of these people. A hundred percent. Even Ted Bundy had a head injury. Yeah. Most of them do. A lot of them. And I mean, Kale and I both have children. So I'm just thinking that I mean, maybe all parents aren't as in tune with their kids, but I can speak on our behalf because I know that we literally know probably how many times our kids take shits a day. Honestly, I feel Elena feels that. And honestly, even I'm an aunt to like Elena's kids and I feel that

way. Like I would know if something was off with them, you know, 100. Yes. Know them like to a T. Like you have to have some type of people who they're they're in denial. I'm not I'm not I'm not speaking on Joe Guy Jr.'s parents. I'm just speaking like in general. I think that there are parents who are very in denial or they don't want to believe it or they think, you know, whatever their child is going through can can go away. I'm not that parent. I'm also like, even with like dogs, right? Like people are like, oh, my dog would never. Oh, my dog, it'll be fine. Like they just don't nobody ever like not nobody. But some parents, they just don't want to believe it. They're in denial. So I

don't know if that was, you know, a situation like this or, you know, or maybe they did try to help him. Maybe there was, you know, a history of mental illness of some sort and they did try to help him and they knew and that's why they were supporting him financially up until this point, you know what I mean? So maybe they were, you know, trying to help and then unfortunately, this is what happened. That's so, so, so scary and terrifying. Maybe the like, I wonder if the sisters could have been their way of being like, we got to cut stuff off here. Like maybe he was a little scary and they were like, you know what, if we cut the finances, maybe we can start to kind of when they were going to be so their

house. Yeah, they were going to be moving to a retirement place and the poor people bought that house. No, thanks. Tear it down. I'd be like, I'm going to not do that. We're going to sage the shit out of that. Like what? Like what happens in a situation like that? Because if that was me, I wouldn't buy it. I wouldn't continue to buy that house. You know what I mean? If it was already sold, that would be like, unforeseen circumstances. Like pull out. But then you think of the people that like bought the Amityville house. It's like sometimes I'm not saying like the people that bought his house or the parents house were thinking this, but you can, you can like make money off of it somehow. I guess this

one was so recent. Oh yeah. The John Bonet Ramsey house. Yeah. The woman who lives there now. I mean, that went for millions and millions of dollars and I mean, people would go like tour it and stuff. And that, you know, obviously her murder happened there. So yeah, you like, I guess can make money off of it, but I still wouldn't want to live there. No way. Yeah, no. It's interesting. I couldn't get past that. Wait, just to like, just to ask you guys a little bit about your show and how you guys cover cases. Is it similar to this? I'm always interested to like, no, like, are we covering this case the way you guys would? Or is it would you guys do something completely different? We actually, this was, I thought

you guys did an amazing job. Yeah, I agree. That's basically what we do. Like we kind of obviously we switch off cases. So it's all one of us and the other one's just kind of reacting to it. But yeah, this is basically what we do is we kind of just go through the whole thing. We try to get what we can from childhood. But like you said, there's really nothing that in his childhood that's out there. Yeah, it's so interesting. I want to know, I want to hear from his sisters. I want his sisters to speak out or like interview them because I feel like what are their thoughts? Did they feel just because if they if they did come from a separate marriage, like maybe they have a little bit of a perspective or

a different angle? Because it was different parents. I mean, say mom, but like different dad, I would be curious to know if they ever thought that something was off or if they knew their brother was different or how, you know, kind of like what what their perspective is. And I think they all have the same dad. Oh, they did. Okay. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh, so they had different moms. I think yeah, I believe so. So was do we know? Oh, okay. His mother. I believe yes. So he had three, they were both his mom and dad. So it seems like the dad had three daughters from a previous marriage met was Lisa. Okay. Yeah. And then they had them together. Oh, okay. That's interesting. Okay. So different moms. Okay. I wonder if

any of the sisters listens to coffee combos podcast or anyone who knows the sisters listens to coffee combos podcast that would be able to tell them to listen to this and then contact us. Yes. I'm dying to know what they're and then call us back. We're coming back. We're coming if they come back. Oh, yeah, for sure. And also, I wonder just briefly back to the point on him wherever he's housed him having those thoughts and then like writing it down. I just want to know like what his situation like his living situation is in prison like yeah, what does that look like? Because I mean, obviously he's a very twisted person to be having like, and did it just start with his parents or was he no way? There's no way.

I feel like that's a hell of a way to start. I know. I have to wonder cruelty to animals. Like I feel like it always starts there. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. I wonder that too. Especially because he's going back to just the fact that he wanted to do like harm his cellmate. That's clearly like a reoccurring thought process to like hurt people or torture people. Yeah, it's like a pathology. Yeah. At this point, like an impulse. It's an Ed Kemper esque. Yeah. Yeah. But if you read go off. If you read anything about like serial killers or whatever, it usually talks about how they're cruel to animals. And that's kind of where it starts. And then they like the thrill of it. But I couldn't imagine coming

up with this type of plan against your parents. And that'd be the first thoughts that you've ever had about something like this, but be able to get that twisted just doesn't make sense to me. Like there has to be, you know, like it's you start, it's kind of like a criminal or like a white collar criminal, like you start small and then they keep testing the limits, keep testing the limits. And then they eventually get caught. Like, is that the situation here? Like I just couldn't imagine you just come up with this book of pre meditation of finding meat grinders and like all this weird shit. And you've never had any of these thoughts before. Like, I don't think so. Right? Yeah, I feel like the money wasn't the full

motive. No, for sure not. And his parents look so happy in the pictures that are online. I'm just like looking at them and his parents are so cute. They look so happy. Like just like no, genuinely look happy in pictures. And then, you know, like you said, they were trying to move to like a, like a 55 and older community that would be so cute for them. That's so sad. I don't know. He kind of looks, he looks, um, Joe Guy, Jr. looks very different in a lot of pictures. Like maybe he has some health issues going on. Maybe. I'm not sure, but I also want to ask you guys this because Kail and I talk about it often. Have you ever thought about like writing a murder and what that process looks like? Would you ever? And

um, because I can tell you right now, I don't, I would never waste my time writing this man a letter because I think he's just disgusting. Like not that any other murderers not disgusting, but this situation is just like too twisted. Yeah. I think we both have probably thought about it, but I don't know if I could ever go through with it, like writing a letter. Yeah, I couldn't do it. I think it's, you know what? It's like before I had kids, I think I would have been more apt to like be like maybe just to see what like their, their story is. But like now I'm like, no, to be honest, and this probably sounds crazy. I would rather go talk to them in person than I would like want to write a letter and that

probably sounds insane, but yeah, that makes sense. No, I think that that makes sense though, because then they don't have your address. Great. Yeah, exactly. I even a P. O. Box. I don't want you to even have that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I last year for Mother's Day, um, an inmate that I had never met or heard of wrote me a letter. Um, and I don't know like how he got my address and stuff. I talked to him on the podcast, but, um, yes. So actually my friend was able to find like his record and stuff and he is in jail currently for murder. Um, and he just said, yes. Is he like a fan of yours? Oh my God, so stressed out. He, he, I was very, very, very stressed out. Um, and he's in his 40s. He's in jail

for murder. He's near my hometown, like where I came from in Northern Pennsylvania. Um, and I sat on it for a really long time and I was just like, I don't know how I feel about this. Like I was a little bit freaked out, but like now, now that I don't live in that house anymore, I will say that I do feel better because I obviously he can't like, you know, what I mean, but I almost, I told Lindsay I'm going to write back. Um, but I do have a P. O. Box. So I'm going to write from the P. O. Box, I think. And then I've also talked to another murderer who went viral on Tik Tok. Um, and like part of me, like I said before in the pot earlier in the podcast, like I do think there are people who are genuinely

good people, but make bad decisions. And I'm not saying that, um, murder is just a bad decision, but I do think that sometimes people can, um, turn their lives around and really have remorse and do those types of things. But then obviously there are people like Joe Guy Jr. who I just, I don't feel like in a situation like this, I don't feel like he could turn it around. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, um, I would be curious to know like the story of the guy who wrote to me, like what, why me, he wrote, he did, it was a Mother's Day card, but I didn't get it for several months. So that is exciting. Chills. Yeah, it was. Well, and I just, why me? Like, I don't know, because surely you don't watch

Teen Mom in prison. Like, I don't think that's okay. I was going to ask that. And then I was like, is that a really dumb question? You never know. But also the fact that it was a mother's day card, I hate that. Like why not just write me a random letter any other day? Like that's really creepy. Right. Like, right. Your mom, happy Mother's Day. I hate that. Like don't involve my kids. Well, then I thought because it was so close to my home, like where he's at and like on his record where it says that he's from is so close to my hometown. It's in the county that I was born and raised in. And so I was like, maybe he knows my family. But I asked and they, nobody knows him. So I just don't know me like a

friend of a friend. I don't really know the situation, but, um, you know, I have told Lindsay that I was going to write. I just haven't had the chance yet, but I would be curious to see like, are you remorseful? Like, what is your plan when you get out? Like, what does that look like for you? Because he's supposed to get out, I think next year. Whoa, that is, it's, it truly is though. Like one of, it is like a unique opportunity to like get in their head inside the mind. Absolutely. So it's one of those things like a catch 22. It's like, you don't want to reach into their mind, but like you really do want to reach into their mind. Just start being like, tell me what goes through your brain. I'm also

like that. Such like a sign person. I'm like, was that a sign that like you guys are supposed to be connected somehow? Like, right? Same. That's how I feel. And like it took me a long time because I was scared at first, but like something in me now is saying like, there's a sign, there's a reason why he was reaching out to me. But like to Lindsay's point, I would not actually be interested in writing to Joe Guy, Jr. I would be more interested to write to a different type of, you know, somebody else. I just feel like Joe God, Jr. is just not worth me even writing to. I would rather hear from like his sisters or, you know, someone who, you know, is in his correct, but he doesn't, I feel like I wouldn't write to him specifically.

Yeah. What's the process of actually going and talking to a murderer? Do they allow it because it's kind of like glorification, right? Like even though what the whole thing is. You probably have to have some kind of like journalism, like credentials, right? I honestly think if we, like for a podcast, I think that we could use that if we have like a letterhead because the other mate that I talked to that went viral on Tik Tok, I literally, um, I don't want to say too much because I don't want to get anyone in trouble. Um, I think all I have to do is either call the warden or write to the warden asking for permission

to interview or interview, um, ask for permission to make an appointment. I don't know if there's like, um, separate process outside of like, I think like a visitor list. I think it's like separate for like an interview. That makes sense because it's like media. Yeah. That makes sense to like go through the warden and everything. That's so cool. Right. And would Kale and I be allowed to like go in to do this together and would we be able

to like, obviously we wouldn't be able to video inside the jail, but like, would we be able to cover it? You know, like a video aspect of us doing this because I think it's really, we just started this true crime thing. This is literally our second true crime episode, but we are totally into true crime and have been invested for a long time. It's just like another aspect that we added to our show. And so I just think it would be cool to be able to go and talk to someone like you guys were saying, get into the mind of someone had done something so insane. I don't even know if that's the right word for it, but like twisted lots of words for it, but I would just be interested to have that aspect.

Oh yeah, for sure. That's a, we've always talked about that how, how it would like add to this, the overall narrative of everything. If you had that part of it, because you have a totally like a total piece of the puzzle, you have the person that did it right there telling you everything, all the questions that we asked throughout this, like, was there something you could sit right there and ask them, but then you have guys like Ed Kemper, who just loved to chat about what they did, which I would love to have sat down with Ed Kemper goals around. So you could, I got to get there, but you don't know if he's just talking just because he's so psyched at what he did. And he just wants to talk and it's

almost like a way of reading it. He wants to hear himself talk. Yeah, exactly. It's almost like a weird, like fetish thing for him, where he gets to talk about it and keep bringing it up and he gets to see your reaction to it and stuff. I think you would have to work on your like facial expressions and not get any reaction. Like the Chris Watts stuff, I heard that people had been writing to him, like women were writing to him because he was good looking or whatever, like sexual letters. I can't handle that. Yeah. Don't do that. I don't understand pro tip. No, like he murdered his. I was laughing who was pregnant. Like there's no, oh yeah. No, that's not okay. I was laughing because I had seen on a tick

talk on Ted Bundy and they were like, showed like a real picture of him and they were making fun of like in the comments they were saying, um, like they, they, them putting Zach Efron as the 10, but he was a joke because like he's obviously like way more good looking than actual, like the actual Ted Bundy. And I was cracking up because I was like, wow, they really, who thought he was good looking? Like he was saying that he was. Yeah. I think like, what was that? I think it was also in the seventies. He was like, he was it. Oh, yeah. Like that was the, I really hate to say this. Well, he was never, it's not bad. Yeah. It's like that, you know, he has unfortunately a good jaw line. Yeah. Just like, I hate to

say it, but it makes me want to punch it. Yeah. That's all. But then goes back to the point of saying that, um, if you're using Zach Efron as a character for a serial killer, that's sexual glorification of the serial killer right there because not one single person can listen to this and say Zach Efron is not the bee's knees. Exactly. So it's already putting him in this category of like, we got this hot guy to play him. So it's like, you're already putting that in everyone's head and they're automatically going to sympathize with, because as a society, we like automatically just don't even realize that we sympathize with good looking people. So it's like, you're automatically romanticizing. Why are we so fascinated? Yeah.

I don't understand. Like I, I don't understand why we are so fascinated by true crime. Like I don't get it. And I also, um, won't watch true crime to fall asleep because I get this like weird like if someone watching me as a killer watching me because I'm watching it, they're going to come kill me kind of thing. Why are we fascinated the way we're fascinated? I think because it's so foreign to our like logical thinking psyches. Like I know for me, it's like so beyond my comprehension because it's not logical. And I think that's why I'm so fascinated by it because I'm like, why? Like how it's just like, it's, it's just any like, but for people, like Ted Bundy and BTK, like they truly lived double lives. How? Yeah. I guess it's just so foreign to us. Like

we'll never, um, did you guys watch, um, The Keepers on Netflix? One of my favorite documentaries of all time. That one was so heavy. I can't wrap my head around all of it. Like it's so crazy how people will literally know the truth and then not even say anything. And then I just like, I can't, it's so fascinating and foreign and all of the things. That's why it's so fascinating. That's why it's like, I'm like fascinated by space and like NASA because I'm like, you can't wrap your brain around it. How the hell do you get in a tiny little space capsule and shoot yourself into space and like that you have no idea if you're just going to like float off into nothingness. So I think it's because it's so foreign to my brain to comprehend. That's when

I get like locked in. Like I need to know about this. Agreed. Agreed. Well, thank you guys seriously so much for coming on. We were so excited to be able to do this. And, um, for all our true climbers, I'm sure they're geeking out. We've received a lot of messages when I posted on my Instagram that you guys were coming on. They were literally geeking out. So, um, I'm really excited. So you guys, I think that's all we have time for today. If you have not followed us on at coffee combos podcast on Instagram, make sure you follow us over there. And if you have not subscribed to our show, make sure you do that by searching the purple podcast app, type in coffee combos, click subscribe, click the fit star and leave us a written review. We hope you guys have

a great week and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you guys so much. Thank you.